#but they feel too much like heartstopper for example

[brazilian-whalien52]

I just found out some people think Korea has the best bl dramas? Not Thailand, Taiwan, Japan or even China. Korea. Taste is taste I guess

[gayforcarstairsgirls]

Not to be sincere on main but honestly just watching Nick and his friends asserting his bisexuality every time someone assumed he was gay just... Like it wasn't just "oh well I'm with a boy so I'm basically gay, nevermind it's basically the same thing" it was "this part of my identity is important no matter who I'm dating, so I am going to make that distinction known, I am going to correct you when you make that assumption, you don't get to reduce me to 'one or the other'" and it made my bisexual heart very happy :)

[dianadragonfly]

So, I was thinking about different fandoms and the fics that I love. What makes a good, satisfying fan fic? I realize it has 100% to do with the canon.

Take BBC Sherlock. I struggle so much with AUs where their beginnings are different. Sherlock is an astronaut, assigned to work with scientist John. (This is an example, not a dig at any specific fic). I can't. I can't. I realize BBC Sherlock is also an AU from Doyle, but BBC Sherlock and John are so fucking tied to "A Study In Pink" and John handing his phone to Sherlock that everything else seems false. Fun premise, but not the Sherlock and John I know.

A satisfying Johnlock fan fic needs to change the ending of the BBC canon. To think of these two men, who love each other so much, just continuing their parallel existences, never becoming anything more than crime-fighting buds, is just. . . it doesn't fit. It doesn't fit the show. It doesn't fit the characters Moffit and Gatiss created, even if they decided to not make it happen (as a special 'fuck you' to their fans). It's heartbreaking.

My favorite fics are fixits -- many of them deal with the aftermath of Euros and Mary, or some do "canon intercepts" and deal with Seasons 3 and 4 differently. Still, anything but John and Sherlock raising Rosie together as partners/lovers/husbands in 221B with Mrs. Hudson downstairs feels like a lie. (Some canon intercepts write out Rosie completely.)

If I had to write sequels to BBC canon, I'd pick "Drawn to Stars" by @totallysilvergirl or "Never Turn Your Back on the Sea” by @discordantwords . There's a thousand other ones, but those ring the most true to me.

"Heartstopper" fics don't have a lot of room to mess with the ending. Anything other than Charlie and Nick happily growing old together is so far out of canon and out of character that it doesn't even seem like it's worth exploring. There are a handful of ones that have one character or the other dying, but mostly, we understand right away that Charlie and Nick are endgame. We are 100% aligned with canon and creator on this.

Anything that isn't true to this ending rings as false as anything that isn't true to Sherlock's beginning. Fun to read, but not our characters.

With Nick and Charlie being so young in canon, their beginnings are so much malleable. Sherlock and John are tied to that lab. Nick and Charlie? not so much. They meet in grammar school. They meet in University. They meet after a hot hookup at a club in their 20s. They meet after broken marriages to Imogen and Ben. They meet during Nick's rugby career or as fellow teachers. They meet at gyms, at animal rescues, at psychiatric hospitals. They are single parents, University professors, rock star drummers, hot shot authors and academics. Their beginning isn't fixed. But the end always is.

I have so many favorites but I just re-read "Lavender Fields" and I think it's a perfect Nick and Charlie meeting up in their 30s fics. There's a ton of University fics too.

I haven't read nearly as many fics from other fandoms, so I don't know their quirks. I'm finding that fandoms that don't have a m/m pairing are hard to find a lot of fics for. (That's a whole 'nother post). But other m/m fandoms seem to have canon-compliant extra scenes. (Wanna see Achilles and Patroclus get freaky in a tent somewhere? Here ya go. That being said, there's one about Achilles waiting for Patroclus in the Underworld that breaks. my. damn. heart.)

Anyways, I need to do a serious look-through of other fandoms to see how this plays out.

I should add the links here to the fics I mention, just because.

[stopper-my-heart]

This is my take on Harry Greene in Heartstopper (TV).

Goal:

Harry wants social capital.

Method of achieving his goal:

Harry primarily rules by fear and by creating an 'us' vs 'them' mentality.

If someone in Harry's group steps out of (his) line, he picks on them until they fall back in.

This serves as a lesson to that person, but it also sets an example for what will happen to anyone else who behaves similarly.

The others in the group therefore typically at least passively support Harry, lest they be turned on, too.

Harry will also pick on random people to:

demonstrate his authority,

amuse his mates,

make them complicit in it so that they don’t have anywhere else to turn, and

benefit from the 'bond' that creates.

-> It’s easiest to do this with people who have less social capital and/or won’t stand up for themselves (like Charlie).

Obstacles:

Nick

Harry knows that Nick is more well-liked than he is.

This is a threat to his power, so he wants to keep Nick under his thumb. -> A great way to do this is by constantly being in Nick's business and by dictating what Nick should care about and how he should live his life. When Harry gets the other lads in on it, it both adds pressure to Nick to comply and shows him that if he doesn't, he'll likely lose more than Harry.

Harry also wants to benefit from Nick’s popularity: he looks cooler if Nick is his friend.

When Nick begins to stand up to him, this is therefore an especially big problem for Harry.

Tao

When Tao starts (verbally) fighting back, this is a challenge to Harry's authority, which is unacceptable — especially from someone of Tao's low social standing.

However, it's a chance for Harry to prove himself, and it seems like it should be easy.

Charlie

From Harry's point of view, Charlie may not be directly challenging him, but Charlie is the driving motivator behind both Tao and Nick standing up to him (which they do in front of his mates, another affront), and especially behind Nick pulling away from him.

Ever since Charlie entered Nick’s life, and especially since he joined the rugby team, Nick has been different: more talkative, joking around more — and not in Harry-approved ways — and a lot less dependent on Harry. In fact, Nick keeps spending time with Charlie instead of with Harry and the other lads, even when they're all out together.

Tao is Charlie's best friend, and it's clear that he's standing up to Harry largely in defence of Charlie.

Charlie is also the opposite of Harry in a lot of ways. As Charlie begins to integrate into the rugby team, Harry will almost certainly feel the lads' acceptance of him as a weakening of Harry's grip on them and of his social capital in general.

Dealing with the obstacles:

Harry needs to prove himself, reassert his authority and superiority. Part of the problem, though, is that Harry's obstacles are intertwined.

Since Charlie is at the root of it all, Harry must (figuratively) knock Charlie down in order to (1) keep Charlie in his place as much as possible; (2) not let him become more 'in' with the rugby lads; (3) show Nick that Charlie isn’t anything special, isn’t worth 'rebelling' for; (4) keep Nick in line by straining his tether to Charlie; and (5) punish Charlie for being different to Harry as well as 'causing' issues for him.

This generally does not have the intended effect:

Charlie may occasionally be beaten down, but he continues to pick himself back up.

Tao typically wins their verbal sparring matches.

Nick increasingly frequently and strongly pulls away from Harry in favour of Charlie.

The turning point (& the fights):

Nick firmly chooses Charlie over Harry at the cinema, and Harry is incensed. Nick must be shown that Harry is the one in charge, so Harry goads him into a fight.

That Monday, Nick not only doesn't apologise, but he doesn't sit with the group before form that morning. Nick again doesn't join them at lunch. It's the same the next day.

Harry is losing his grip on Nick, and he's angry about it. Harry can’t really fight Charlie, for various reasons, but what about the other thorn in his side? If he fights Tao, that will hurt Charlie, and hurt Nick, and theoretically go towards reinforcing Harry’s superiority and rightful social standing at the top of the pecking order (and hurt Tao). What a perfect vector for his anger and frustration! So Harry goads Tao into a fight.

The aftermath

Harry tries a few more times to generously "allow" Nick back into the fold, and Nick refuses.

Christian, Sai and Otis also stop talking to Harry and those who are still close to him.

Charlie stands up to Harry.

So why does Harry stick up for Nick and Charlie in Paris?

Harry is realising that he lost: Nick is out from under his thumb now, and others have followed him. The only way for Harry to get back in is to get back in with Nick. And the way to do that is through Charlie (in the same way that going against Charlie led to the breaking point in the first place).

Is part of Harry's motivation to change that he realises that he's been treating people poorly and doesn't actually want to do that? (Or, at the very least, not his friends?)

Maybe. It's possible he genuinely misses Nick and the others and wants to do better.

But as things stand at the end of season 2, it seems like Harry has given up on homophobic "jokes" because they led to his empire crumbling; it doesn't seem like he's changed his goal or learned a bigger lesson.

Even if he has, and Harry works on changing his behaviour across the board, it may be too little too late for him to be back in with Nick and the others.

We'll have to see what season 3 brings.

[genericpuff]

(disclaimer, this is coming from a heartstopper fan! i love heartstopper this is not hate!!)

i think at least part of the annoyance with heartstopper isn't just that isn't a light fluffy ya series, it's also that its another example of how the queer media that gets the most mainstream attention tends to be this kind of light fluffy ya stuff that focuses on two conventially attractive queer boys or men and it also tends to be written by people who aren't queer men on top of that, so not only can it feel very samey but it can feel like other queer people are relegated to side characters in the stories of cis gay men. and as someone who loves heartstopper i get that on some level.

btw by "written by people who aren't queer men" NOT saying that isn't not written by queer people. alice oseman is genderfluid and aroace, becky albertalli is bisexual, etc. and while i think the point is still valid there is a misogyny element in that a lot of the focus is put on things that are written by women or people they perceive as women while tumblr darlings like good omens and ofmd (written by presumably straight men) don't get the same treatment.

nah y'know what, that's fair, I can get how frustrating it can be for a lot of popular queer stories to feel samey, I've definitely gotten BL-fatigue in the past on platforms like WT and Tapas because many of them ARE the same and feel like they're just piggybacking off trends for the sake of clout (and this is a problem in the heterocis romance stories too, don't get me fucking started on how dark romance has turned into torture porn where vulnerable women are constantly being victimized by rich powerful men and we're just supposed to root for that ??), but it's one of those things where like, what might be seen as just more corny shit could very well be the revelation another person needs that they're gay / trans / etc. that the story helped them realize. there's just a point where i see these arguments against cheesy popular queer stories that teeter dangerously close to being queerphobic and, as you said, misogynist, simply because "it was written by someone who i perceive as a woman so that makes it BAD!"

and I didn't mention it in the original post because I didn't want to @ OP in any way but in the comment section they literally said "i dont think heartstopper itself is all that bad but it has pretty much aimed the direction of all mainstream gay comics towards wholesomeness instead of anything more interesting so i want to destroy heartstopper to destroy heartstopper clones" and that gives me massive ick because it implies their sole reasoning for including it was "chill and happy queer stories bad, if a character doesn't suffer enough then they're not interesting"?? why can't LGBTQ+ audiences have more 'vanilla' stories that aren't all sad and angsty all the time? are we not entitled to the same corny romcom vanilla shit that the heterocis are entitled to? why do LGBTQ+ characters - and by extension, people - have to suffer to qualify as being 'interesting'? You're already interesting, you're you! like i'm sorry, are we trying to scare people straight??? 😭 shit, that's even a plot point that's touched on in Heartstopper itself where Nick is questioning his sexuality and he starts googling shit and it's just ALL the terrifying news stories of queer kids being ostracized / bullied / murdered / etc. and as much as it's important to be aware of the ongoing issues so we can keep fighting for our rights, we ALSO need to find balance and remember to celebrate the stories that AREN'T that because we need something to be hopeful for, something we can find peace in. I don't think Heartstopper is some deeply profound piece of work, but it also doesn't seem like it's trying to be? It's a low stakes celebration of the LGBTQ+ experience that's very warm and comforting, especially for those who are the same ages as the main characters who are often being persuaded by the grown-ups around them that it's a death sentence to be gay / trans / etc.

and it's not like we HAVEN'T had popular pieces of queer representative media that explored things outside of cheesy BL, like are we forgetting about Nimona which explored both the gay and genderfluid experience in a very accessible and fun way while still being mature and not pandering to its audience over how society has made monsters out of queer people?

(and even then I'm sure there are folks who would argue "actually, here are the issues with Nimona" , and that's fine tbh, we can like media and appreciate what it brings to the table while also discussing what it lacks in, such as what we're doing now with Heartstopper! progress is a never-ending journey!!)

and also okay, not me trying to be argumentative in the slightest BUT I don't really get the argument that 'other queer people' are being sidelined for the main characters? unless there's something I'm missing here lol (I will apologize for that because it's admittedly been a while since I've re-read Heartstopper so I should probably go do that to refresh myself on it). like i say that in the sense that Heartstopper is clearly meant to be about two gay male teenagers. just like how Nimona is about a shapeshifter who is not a girl or a boy (they're Nimona!) and a gay man who are both trying to change the system that's other'd them for years for the better. that is the story Heartstopper is trying to tell and it achieves that. it also has a trans character plotline that I could see people arguing feels sidelined but I think there's a massive difference between 'sidelining' and just having a B plot ? my honest take with that is not every piece of representative media is going to be able to cover every single topic, it's just not doable for one piece of media to be a monolith for everything, the same as how one person can't be a monolith for an entire community of people. BUT that doesn't mean works like Heartstopper and Nimona can't inspire others to also lend their voices into the medium and create that representation that's needed. That's why we need ✨variety✨ and Heartstopper is part of that variety by offering a more vanilla cutesy story full of good vibes for people who want that sort of thing.

IDK, I think there's just a lot of nuance that's being missed in that poll, and in the difference between Heartstopper inspiring more people to write happy cozy BL stories vs. implying that it's had an actual negative influence on modern art and media in the same way that series like Homestuck and LO have to the point that people think it needs to be destroyed, like wtf LOL Like they're not even comparable IMO and a lot of the arguments I see people making about why it is just feel a little backwards, and those arguments obfuscate the real issue which is just "popular thing is popular and people like to piggyback off popular shit". That's a fact for basically any niche and genre, these trends come and go. Even if the whole cutesy BL trend passes one day (which it will) it'll be replaced by something else that people will also inevitably find samey and boring after a while. This is not a concept that's unique to LGBTQ+ media, it's universal.

Balance is important and I think finding that balance is as much a responsibility on the shoulders of the consumer as it is on the creator. And I don't think Heartstopper deserves to be put into the same camp as stories like LO which literally straightwashes its canonically queer characters and gives those queer identities to nothingburger characters who are easy to shoo out of the plot to make way for the heterocis ones (while still parading itself around like it's actually 'queer rep' which... it really isn't.) Like all three of the comics in that poll are vastly different, serving different audiences, with different goals and intentions. It's comparing apples to oranges to pineapples.

The worst Heartstopper has to offer is just a low stakes plot that might not appeal to everyone or feel 'samey' which yeah, valid, but in the grander sense of whether or not it's had a negative effect on queer media just for being... cheesy? And inspiring other people to write stories like it? I don't get the argument, it feels like it's severely missing the point of what we're fighting for here - to live happy little unbothered lives - but that's just me ╮(￣ω￣;)╭ I'm definitely not trying to be a dick about it in any way and I don't want anyone to think I'm not open to the opposing points here, I do agree with you on the oversaturation of samey BL stories, but it just rose some massive red flags to see Heartstopper next to frigging Homestuck and Lore Olympus LOL

[marengogo]

Rambling in INFJese - Part 10: Queerful In South Korea

SGMB and RPWP focused playlist

[Music is a very big part of my life and I’m MOSTLY INCAPABLE of writing without music, so I just thought I'd share what I am listening to while writing this]

🐺 — 🐺 — 🐺—

Gurls, Bois and Enbies … Hellooooooooooo 📢 Yes, I’m finally, officially, back from my travels.

Am I feeling relaxed and refreshed?

NO.

In fact, I’m pretty sure I’m more tired than when I left 😬. You see, there was more excitement than I thought, or even budgeted for, but, lowkey highkey I knew it was going to turn out like that, so, it was what it was and it was unforgettable 😊💜. 

Now, on to the topic of today!

As the title kinda spoils, I would like to bring forth the topic of queerness in present day Korea, touching upon specific sub-subjects within this main-theme, which you will discover as you keep reading.

In order to provide more context and understanding, I’ll have to bring up a bit of Geography, a tad of Politics and a lot of History, and let me make this clear, even though I have been out of politics for quite some time I used to be very invested in world politics … I am presently indeed somewhat annoyed, because there seems to be a lot of misinformation that has been going around with regards to what it might mean to be gay/queer person in South Korea, in the big year of 2024, which is why I’d also like to encourage us to be proactive and do some research, on our own, with the available resources that are out there. I know it sounds heavy, but I promise I’ll try and make it as least cumbersome, and as much relatable to what might concern all Queer people, and JK and JM of course, as possible ✌🏾.

Let’s start with some Geography.

Asia … is a big ass continent. Because it is so big, amongst the people who make these kind of decisions, it was decided that this continent would have to be divided into 5 regions: Central, East, South, Southeast and West. The regions we are going to be concerned with are East and Southeast also known as ASEAN. The East has a total of 8 countries, out of which we are going to focus on 4 being; China, Japan, South Korea and Taiwan, while the Southeast has a total of 11, out of which we are only going to concentrate on 1, being Thailand … aaand that was all for Geography; painless right?

Great. So now it is time for some of History. We are now going to be talking about the history of the BL genre and the Queer art genre within two particular cultures; Eastern and Western.

BL, otherwise known as Boy’s Love, is a genre that was born in Japan in the 1970s. To properly discuss the world of BL it would take way too many blogs, so I’m afraid I won’t delve too deep into it, but in order to proceed with our discourse I need for everyone to at least understand the substantial difference between, for example, a series like The Eight Sense and Heartstopper. The first is a BL and the other is a Queer Coming-of-Age Drama. These two series are the I most point out very positive outcome of a lot of struggle and progress within both the BL and Queer art genre through the years.

The East and BLs - BL was created by women to be consumed by other women in Japan. It had nothing to do with creating content for gay/queer people, and this is very fundamental for everyone to understand. The thing is that it doesn’t matter where in the world you are, if you are or were a girl/woman you know the struggles are real. Different parts of the world deal with this frustration in different ways, and Japan and eventually the other 4 Asian countries I listed above found this to be one of them. The BL genre is basically having two men in a forbidden relationship, driven by mad passion, and who would always choose each other over the rest of the world. Star crossed-lovers where one of them would always be the Seme/Top or male-male and the other the Uke/Bottom or female-male. At the core of it all, BL was intended to be escapism, which eventually turned into fetishism and now can be all the above and something else entirely; evolution aye?

Mainly Asian women perhaps used BL to feel like their opinions and emotions could matter, in an environment where like also many other countries in Africa men are the ones that have the last say, or just any say at all. So they fulfilled their fantasy of being heard, and having power, while at the same time having the “strongest/most ideal” of men fall desperately in love with this male version of themselves. It is obviously much more complex than my two line sentence explanation, but for now, kindly keep this image in your mind.

Moving on!

The West and Queer Art - The queer genre in the West for the longest time was almost always a guaranteed tragedy. Interestingly enough, even though the first movie that mentioned homosexuality was in the 1960, the beginning of Queer culture in movies was, also for the West, in the 1970s. I can’t tell you the amount of books and films I have read and seen in my day says the woman in her thirties LOL and, despite the heart-wrenching looming tragedy, I would still enjoy finding comfort during those few chapters/scenes when the couple/pairing was happy, even though I knew for a fact that either one of them or both would die, or be eternally separated, or some other kind of tragedy.

The funny thing is that I would just accept it, because why not? Is not like my reality showed any different. It wasn’t like I was aware of happy and successful queer people around me, so why would I expect to read or watch anything else? Also I am a nasty ass angsty person so really I have no excuse. 

… are y’all following me thus far?

Now, let’s take a bit of a leap into the 2000s where money-makers finally clocked in on the fact that there is mad-money that can be made with BL in the East and Queerness in the West. In the East we start adopting fanservice within boybands and Asian-Dramas, we start printing thousands of BL mangas, and producing as many animes to match. In the West we keep having the token queer comedian appear on every show as well as making movies of historic queer figures who have impacted the world somehow, so that the queers can feel represented, even though all the actors are for the most part straight, because at this point in time, even though we acknowledge that Queer people exist, coming out is still very meh.

As the 2000s progress and we enter the 2010s thanks to actual progress within some western countries, the interweb and social media it becomes increasingly easier for an Eastern Fujoshi/Fudanshi/Fujin (Bl lover girl/boy/enby) to find themselves in say the UK, which has areas that breathe queerness and queer history and for a Western Queer to find themselves in say Japan where they can easily buy a manga about “queers” in happy relationship or, somewhere in South Korea, can easily see two very attractive boys/girls from a random kpop band openly kiss.

And then, in the midst of this “cultural” exchange, and awakening, something happens.

The Eastern Fujoshi/Fudanshi/Fujin realise that there are actual real queer people in the world sounds stupid, but believe me, it is not. That queer people are not just characters in a book, or anime, and that in fact there really are people in the world who are for example of the same sex and truly wanna be together and, if gay, for example, can also be both very masculine and still want to be together. At the same time the Western Queer realise that they actually can be happy, and that they deserves a happy ending, because some of this BLs aren’t half as bad and they sometimes make valid points and then you find out that actual queer people are now also writing BLs so things start to make some sense. 

As I mentioned, society was also changing, Queer people in the West started gaining a few rights, such as being able to get married in America and some European countries, and as a consequence, in the following decade, we now have series and movies that have Queer protagonist, with happy endings to boot! In the East, things are either not moving at all or moving a bit differently, or kinda slowly, but still it is movement. Within the countries that are moving differently, talking about Queerness is still heavy but has finally become something that they “don’t mind” just talking about and the gay neighbour is actually seen as the gay neighbour, whether they will talk to them is debatable, but at least they are recognised as such and not absurdly explained away or their existence ignored.

Now back to geography. The reason why I mentioned those 5 countries (China, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and Thailand) is because at some point in the 2010s they were the main producers, and consumers, of BL within the Asian continent, and yes, while still being hella homophobic and, but let’s be real for a second, queer people have been around since the beginning of time, so even though BL was made and intended for women, our Queer Eastern Siblings would find a way to secretly also consume BL, being the closest thing to reading about a queer relationship, so added to the westerner consumption as well, it is no surprise that these 5 countries suddenly had a boom, despite having been being homophobic. 

Hence, it can be said that these 5 countries were on the same wavelength in the early 2010s, but what about now? With the considerable change in behaviour and thought with regards to Queer people in these countries in the early 2020s where do these 5 countries stand with regards to their Queer people and politics? Well, China has now banned BLs entirely, and I will not delve into their further lack of queer rights. Taiwan and Thailand have legalised Queer marriage. Then there is Japan which is making progress towards trying to legalise Queer marriage with to my greatest joy a successful ruling that happened this year in March related to same-sex unions … so, what about South Korea?

Well … SK is so close 🥹 … Yet so far 😫

It’s like they are taking 4 steps forward and 3 steps backwards, constantly. They are well far from China-levels which is a fucking relief I tell you! but they are dragging their feet to be at Japan-levels (and Japan is very close to Thailand and Taiwan Queer status currently). Yet, it is not as negative as it seems, or as some people try to portray it. You look around social media and they depict SK as if it were China. SK is currently facing a situation where it notices that things are changing and change is scary y’all. Resistance is the usual reaction to change, and the older generations, mainly those led by the Christian groups are not really where is at. SK’s youth and older liberal generations hold the answer to the Queer Korea questions.

So what exactly makes SK look hopeful? Well, time to get back to some History again 😘

The first Queer organisation in SK was formed in 1993 by 3 gay men and 3 lesbian women. The following year the 6 separated into 2 groups and formed the first gay organisation and the first lesbian one respectively. In 1997 we have the first demonstration for gay and lesbian rights, which then lead into 2000, the year of the first Pride Parade, which is one of the events of the very first Seol Queer Culture Festival Daegu Queer Culture Festival will be created in 2009, do keep this in mind … but another major event happened in the year 2000.

Y’all know that saying X walked so that Y could run? Well Hong Seok Cheon was basically forced to walk so that Queer Korean could learn how to properly train to run.

Though Seok-cheon is presently back to being somewhat popular again, his coming out was pretty traumatic. His career as comedian/actor started in 1994 and he was quite popular which landed him a good number of acting roles, and a lot of placements in comedy shows, as well as a kids show. In 2000 he was asked about his sexuality and he had no qualms in replying that he was gay. The show editors decided to cut out that part but a journalist gotta love them 🙃 got a hold of the footage and forced him to “elaborate”. Upon confirming, Seok-cheon lost all his jobs and was shunned verbally abused, discrimination and the lot, oh yes … by his own country. 

Not surprisingly, given that nobody in his own country wanted to interact with him, he at first thought of moving to the US to start afresh, but then decided against it. Seok-cheon decided to stay and prove to everyone in his country that he could make it and be successful again. And that he did. In 2002 he opened the first of what now is a high end chain of 9 restaurants in Itaewon. 2004 he joined the Democratic Labor Party and was selected by Time magazine as the Asian Hero of that year and in the following years Seok-cheon will keep racking up achievements  🎶🎵Did you see my bag? Did you see my bag? 🎶🎵 Namean?! (I’m not gonna list them all but you should definitely look him up and learn a bit about him, if you are interested).

But how does that connect to today? In 2008 he started his own talk show Coming Out and though there was a bit of resistance at the beginning as expected, the youth came in force and he started gaining audiences and boom! He was back on TV and slowly he’d get also a few cameos on prominent media, such as the Netflix drama Itaewon Class. Now let’s leave the lime-light for a second and let's look at the military 😬. It is vitally important that people understand that being gay is not illegal in any of the 5 countries we’ve been talking about yes, even China, but the public opinion and beliefs of each country greatly influence how their queer communities are thought of and treated.

Now, SK Military has become pretty infamous within the queer community for conducting witch-hunts in order to find out and humiliate gay soldiers, so much so that organisations such as Amnesty eventually had to step in. That being said, let's be real real real for a second. Though it is appalling what they have done to the queer soldiers, the SK military was also very famous for hazing, assaulting, causing cadets regardless of sexuality to want to unalive themselves and what more. All of the aforementioned, which put SK’s military on the map in a not so positive light globally, added to the increase in suicides, made the government address the situation, and they eventually came up with solutions such as the buddy system, which was first implemented in 2003. But, back to the gays. The most popular witch-hunt happened in 2017 where two soldiers amongst others were outed, but these particular two were found guilty of having sex off-base, during off hours.

In 2022 this conviction was overturned, the soldiers were no longer guilty and it is now no longer illegal, for queer soldiers, to have sex off-base during off-hours. You know what else happened in 2022? SK aired their first Queer reality shows, one being To Me(a)rry Queer and and the other being His Man. In 2023, His Man 2 will give us our first successful real-life queer couple, who are our beloved couple Junseong and Seongho (together known as Junseongho). They are the first queer couple to ever appear on Dazed magazine and we are all familiar with Dazed, it is not the front page like our boys get, but we all know how big of a deal this is, right?

You know what else happened in 2023? Remember that Daegu Queer Culture Festival I was talking about? The Mayor of Daegu (big Christian sympathiser) tried to stop this festival which includes the Parade and many other events, even though the Court ruled it was okay for the Festival to be carried out. The Mayor gathered other supporters and pulled up to the group, but the Daegu Police protected the Festival and removed the mayor and his “friends” from the premises. This was big and made news worldwide. 

In fact, Daegu’s Queer Culture Festival is the second largest one in the country, after Seoul’s. This is mainly possible because the Local Authorities (such as the police) are quite independent in belief from their present Mayor and the Christian factions. In contrast, for example, Busan’s Queer Culture Festival had a two year run but was then cancelled in 2019. Unfortunately, in Busan, The Mayor, the Local Authorities and the Christian factions are buddy-buddies making it much harder to get protection and permissions, aaaaaand things like that, kids, is why it is super important to vote for your local administration as well.

Even though these are all very important stepping stones, SK is nowhere close to being the UK, obviously. The LGBTQ community still has to get all their core rights being legalised, and queer people can still be subject to random ass attacks, such as the singer Holland had in 2022, which, by the way, also still occasionally does happen in the UK and everywhere else in the Queer World. Which is a general minority reality I’m afraid.

Furthermore, it is still illegal to have sex on base, which the country maintains that they are upholding because they are trying to prevent possible sexual assaults not too mad about this tbh, which is a valid concern, but most importantly they now know that the world is watching and why is that important? Because, for example, even though they are now separated, one of the boys from the Me(a)rry Queer couples enlisted around the same time with JK & JM and from his posts and photo-booth pictures that other soldiers posted of him, he seems to be making friends and to be comfy as comfy as you can get while serving, kinda like Joonie and most likely JM & JK

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by 박보성 (@park_bosung)

Not quite the attitude of someone fearing a witch-hunt, right? But then again, there isn’t much to hunt when you are already out, it is afterall illegal to hunt people and the world is now aware; is there? …

Now back to the general people of SK. According to a survey conducted in 2023 last year, 56% of South Koreans still oppose same-sex marriage (in comparison with only 26% of Japanese). 56% is not bad but then 72% don’t want queer people in their neighbourhoods and  workplace, though 81% think that it is not right to terminate people because of their sexual orientation 4 steps ➡️3 steps ⬅️… … … Basically it’s okay to be queer here as in SK, but not here-here, perhaps over there like a queer only neighbourhood or something which at the moment is the Itaewon district. 

So yes, 2024 Queer SK is still struggling though they are not going to be overtly nasty about it, because the world is watching. I mean, don’t get me wrong, progress is progress and we love to see that, it is actually amazing, but there still needs to be a general environment where LGBTQ rights in SK need to be recognised and for queer Koreans to not be discriminated against in their social/work/family life. It is also great that Queer media is trying to transition more and more from only BL to actual Queer Drama, for example I am really looking forward to watching Love In The Big City which btw also stars Kim Go Eun.

There is still work to be done, but I think Jung Cueri, a lesbian woman who helps with the Seoul Queer Culture Festival, says it best (here is the full article https://www.dw.com/en/why-are-south-koreans-less-welcoming-of-lgbtq-neighbors/a-68698268 ):

“I think the attitudes of younger generations of Koreans are getting better," she said, pointing out that young LGBTQ+ individuals "tend to come out sooner to their families, in their workplaces and schools than my generation because they are more aware of their sexuality through social media and exposure to various discussions that are more tolerant of LGBTQ+ people." And the cultural festival can help to be a catalyst to change further, she believes. "It will get better," she said. "And that is why the organizers and everyone else involved in the festival are working so hard; they know that Korean society will get better, and they want to contribute to that.

From where I stand it seems Hopeful, Queerful, if you may.

So, Fighting!, Queer South Korea!

Always respectfully yours,

Marengo. 

[valenschmidt]

Thanks for answering my ask! Yes, that's very true, Ryan has been consistently hated/viewed with suspicion and skepticism for years, so the majority of buddie fandom (who are Oliver stans) wouldn't want to ship him with Oliver. I distinctly remember one particular post (in Ryan's tag) a year or two ago that was like, "ugh if buddie goes canon i feel sorry for oliver having to kiss that man" 🙄

Lol yes I guess we have to thank bt shippers and their OTT vitriol for turning the tide somewhat. It's been nice to see a recent influx of vocal Eddie/Ryan fans join the fandom. So refreshing and entertaining.

Yes also I remember the super cute bts vids that popped up during/toward the end of s6, and some people tagging positively about Ryan (albeit begrudgingly!). But definitely a lot more people were on edge about rpf compared to now.

Ooooh so about Oliver being single, that's what I thought too! But someone else I sent an ask(?) to a while ago said that he didn't actually say anything concrete in his insta live, and that he is still with his gf 🤔 does anyone have any further confirmation either way? I'd love to know!

"this happens quite a lot when ships are about to go canon. People start projecting the ship onto the actors, especially when chemistry is REALLY huge " - this is a really interesting phenomenon you've pointed out!

No provblem anon! I love receiving asks!!

YES!!! I completely understand why people were really mad back then, especially black people and I also understand if there are still black people who haven't quite forgiven him and it's totally valid, because what he did was not ok (even if he never said that word he was still trying to justify his then wife's actions and that should have been a big no no) the problem is that people let it get a tad too far and spreading things that were NOT true to new fans in the recent years out of anger, making him seen like a terrible person who is a racist and hates black people when that is not true... Aisha and Angela were really mad back then but they both clearly have forgiven him (since Angela invited him to his anniversary party and Aisha to his wedding) and he has never done anything remotely similar again so I think he truly changed and has become better so I really believe people have started to see that and the bt being awful to him probably was a changing point to most of the fandom (not all because some still hate him) but well you can't change someone's views on people changing...

Also yes anon! A lot were completely against it calling it awful and whatnot and now are the biggest ryliver shippers (and getting viral over it when less than 6 months ago they would cancel you) and taking everything as ryliver signs but whatever I just hope they don't take things too far

To the Oliver thing... I watched that interview live and I'm 100% sure he said he's single but I can't for the life of me find a clip of the interview (if anyone finds it please send it to me!!!) But I remember that he said he was single and then kind of shaded his ex (lol) so yeah

As for the last thing... yup not many notice but it happens quite a lot. Just like how actors tend to fall in love with eachother (which doesn't happen all the time but it happens) in fandom it also happens that they believe they fall in love. Take heartstopper for example... Kit and Joe plan Nick and Charlie who are very in love but in reality they're just very good friends but people insist on shipping them or the Bridgerton actors that play Colin and Penelope as well... people project the feelings of their characters into their real life personalities because of the chemistry the actors have together. It's hard to comprehend the idea of acting so close to someone and play lovers and have so much chemistry but not falling in love

Wow now that was quite a lot 🤣

Sorry anon I got carried away

[frodopotter7]

Greetings, I literally couldn’t make it out of bed for some days now. Some bacteria’s wanted to turn me into a ghost. Luckily I have medicine and I am doing much better now. I am just healing and checking tumblr again and suddenly Netflix is all over their mind and tries to cancel this amazing show. What is it with Netflix against one girl, two boys and ghosts? It was literally the same thing with Lockwood and co. An amazing show with a lot of love in it. This is getting turned down, but those partly AI generated shows are getting their views. Netflix says, it is because of too little views. Which is hardly to believe. I mean this fandom feels quite huge and I imagine many people who watch Sandman watched DBD. So why are the numbers so different? I honestly feel like the problem was that Netflix themselves were only promoting for people who watched it anyway and only did their promotion on a bare minimum. Like I felt with Wednesday for example they made so much more attention and hype around, because they knew that this could be financially exploited. The shows at the top of the view list are mostly the shows that allow making a lot of merchandise with them. But why didn‘t so many people watch it? I mean, you had attractive actors, an exiting story, a love triangle, aesthetic and great characters for anyone to identify with. My first thought was because it has explicit LGBTQ+ in it, but so does Sandman and Heartstopper. That‘s all not making sense. I guess I just can’t understand what the majority wants. I would love an analysis by someone checks views on series and films and what tells us about the general audience. Who is the general audience that they are not watching dbd? Okay, this is getting too metaphorical now.

I hate Netflix for not recognising good work. As if they couldn’t help out. As if they weren’t the people with the money.

Poor George for having his first role with payment and hope and then losing it. George deserves to be seen in more.

But I feel like even if the fans try everything it will hardly change. Once a decision is made it won’t be correct, since those high paid managers do not make mistakes. Numbers speak for themselves right? I saw that with Lockwood and Co. But what we can hope for is the rights going to another company. Netflix isn’t Disney. So they won’t keep the rights for uselessly long. I think Netflix would actually say yes to giving the rights away, if they get a good deal. Anyways those are my thoughts. But I am touched by how much this fandom does everything to defend themselves, which is important. Don’t cancel Netflix, as mentioned Netflix is rich enough to not care. Keep this fandom in your heart and alive.

[thexie-and-stars]

Intro!

@tazmaboxed

I acknowledge the Traditional Owners and Custodians of this country. In particular, I acknowledge the Indigenous Elders of the Wurundjeri people, part of the Kulin nation, where I live and learn and pay my respects to their Indigenous Elders past, present and emerging. Sovereignty has never been ceded. It always was and always will be, Aboriginal land. [credits to @elliewasaghost for the template]

dni: general dni criteria, MAPs, paraphiles [not people with paraphilic disorder], nazis, Radqueers, Radfems, porn bots. if you piss me off, i will block you

FUCK JKR. TERFS, SWERFS AND FARTS CAN GO DIE

THIS USER HAS INTRUSIVE THOUGHTS, PLEASE BE MINDFUL

I do not support Neil Gaiman, Always support the victims.

JOIN THIS: GAY DISCORD

IT'S GAY

I do vent posts a lot. If i'm actually in crisis it will be either untagged or tagged with #crisis. if not, please disregard because im just dealing with shit.

I will make moodboards on request SEND ASKS

WILL ALSO GIVE ADVICE

I edit wikipedia and fandom pages, lemme know if there's something wrong on a page and i'll take a look!

I run a tumblr community about special intrests and hyperfixations. If you want to join, DM me or send an ask!

HALLOWEEN SECRET SKETELONS: Asks sent

The theme on my website/tumblr page is not mine, I customized it. the credits are on the website.

art blog: @theo-th3-trans-art-b01

emergency ray toro bc i am mentaly silliy

reasons not to kill yourself: Link :3

RIP @venomvolts-deactivated20240803 I hope you re-join tumblr someday, you will be remembered

@xxx-ang3l-w1th-a-sh0tgun-xxx

I realised I haven't done one of these so:

Name: Theo

Nicknames: Thexie, Thex, Bean

Attraction shit: Bi oriented Aro/Ace.

I don't feel like a human, i feel like a silver fox w antlers. If u don't fw that, DNI

Pronouns: He, It, Rot, Vamp, [Ask as my prefernce changes daily, full list of prns on my pronouns page, go to the bottom of the post]

Gender: Rounded version for cis people. Boyflux transmasc, which means my gender fluctuates on the slidy scale between agender and boy.

Actual full decimaled gender: galaxforieliminalfluxboy. made by me!

Demi-verbal and silly :3

Tags i use:

#me and my posts, theo posting, beans posts : my own posts

#my starry angel: interacting w my best friend @a-perfect-imitation

#bean answers an ask: asks

#i can feel a ghostly prescence: interacting w @elliewasaghost [not used much but holy shit it's a great tag name]

#the lurker's here: @touch-starved-lurker

#beans come to visit: @lots-of-lesbeans-2

#cheeky fucker: @cheekyboybeth

#my chappel town and chemical cave: music tag, mainly my own lyrics, poems, talking about my instruments and occasional songs/covers.

#bean's brain: anything about the stuff listed in my TW area.

#theo spoils: used if a thing im ranting abt has not been widly seen yet, for example, a new season of a tv show.

anything to do with bean/theo: read the other bit of the tag

Triggers: Human balls, anything to do w gen alpha lingo, jokes about rape, talking about sexual assault.

General: I am Irish-Australian and I fence. I have a dog and two cats! I am fine for people to send asks or dm me! I do swear a lot but I don't post nsfw. I do sometimes reblog nsfw, nothing too severe. I AM a minor so please be mindful. . I love it when people send me asks! You can also dm me. I will give out my discord on request. I am polyamorous

Diagnosed: ADHD, Anxiety [all 3 types], Asthma, Autism, Chronic fatigue, chronic pain, Deppression, Hypermobility, Long covid, POTS, Scoliosis, Strabismus, Vision impaired

Probable I have it but not diagnosed yet : BPD, Fibromyalgia

Special interests: Heartstopper, MCR, Art, Autism, general knowledge.

Current Hyperfocus: stardew valley, dayflower

Fandoms: Dead Boy detectives, Helluva Boss, Hazbin Hotel, The Osemanverse, dead end paranormal park, Nimona, stardew valley, MCR, witherburn afterschool news, GRAVITY FALLS

Interests: Trivia

Likes: Cryptids, Books, My laptop, My friends, Watercolours, Drawing, Eating raw onions, Art, Mushrooms

Dislikes: Jam and butter together, Nausea, bad textures, the popular girls

Music i like: Bears in trees, Cavetown, chappel roan, Dayflower, Evanescence fall out boy, girlinred, Mcafferty, MCR, MotherMother, Penelope Scott, Ricky Jamaraz [i'm gay, what do you expect].

My spotify playlist: Trans Tism songs :3 by Theo The Mothman.

Trivia: I play clarinet, guitar and the drums and I have a pair of mechanical wings I use for cosplay

Trigger warnings for things i might post: self harm, mental illness, suicide, family stuff [my mum's abusive], unreality [weirdcore and dissociation],

Mobility Aids I have: cane, crutches, wrist splints, back brace, wheelchair

Meds I take: ADHD meds, Salt Tablets, Melotonin

@frogofalltime is my dad :D

USERBOXES AND LINKS DOWN BELOW \/

credits going left to right, from top left!

@xxx-ang3l-w1th-a-sh0tgun-xxx, @system-box

@lgbtq-userboxes, @lgbtq-userboxes,

@sweetpeauserboxes, @burntoutuserboxes

@burntoutuserboxes, @xxx-ang3l-w1th-a-sh0tgun-xxx,

@esotericalqueer, @esotericalqueer

@xxx-ang3l-w1th-a-sh0tgun-xxx, @cardboard-userboxes

@arcanecollective, @decemberblue

@another-userbox-blog, @sweetpeauserboxes,

@puppyuserboxes, @xxx-ang3l-w1th-a-sh0tgun-xxx

@alterhuman-userboxes, @whats-a-human

@xxx-ang3l-w1th-a-sh0tgun-xxx, @burntoutuserboxes

@mogaispiderpunk, @blood-moon-night-coining

@totallypumpkin, @frogsforthefrogwar

LINKS \/

pronouns page

posts I wanna keep

last relapse: 4/11/24

haha idk if i'm gonna make it to graduation

tw for that btw

[rainehill]

Hello, my artist friend Rainehill, I have a simple question for you. Regarding drawing, have you ever experienced an artistic slump? If so, I'm curious how you managed to overcome it. I think I might be in a slump right now.😭

Yes I have, I mean I’m not able to do as much art as I would like due to studies, training, music etc however outside of that I have experienced artistic slumps and what I’ve generally done is either

1. completely change my style and try to draw stuff that’s super different and really fun even if it’s bad (for example switching between still life, comic styled art, watercolours, acrylic, sketches, videos and more)

Or

2. Let my other passions power my want for art (for example loving a song so much I make a music video for it or my love for my dog making me draw him or make copies of drawing of heartstopper but slightly change them to fit them into my own mini comics or just finding my surroundings beautiful and drawing random ruff sketches and more)

I really hope that you’re feeling okay though and that this helps because art can be a big stress relief but it can be a burden too so you need to know that (except for jobs, exams etc) you never have to make art but that people make art when they want to and have the energy for it (not when they feel a responsibility to do it or like they are getting bad with out practice).

I hope this was helpful and that you have a good day :)

[oceanwithouthermoon]

part of the reason i love kubosai and its shipping community so much is because i never see people making them the stereotypical gay couple i usually (like..almost ALWAYS) see in mlm shipping.. like, yk how in every mlm shipping community there are THOUSANDS of (usually girl) fans who assign one character "the pants in the relationship" and the other is basically the girl.. I HATE THAT

they always create this unbalanced dynamic where the guy theyve chosen to be the man (usually the taller, stronger character) is ALWAYS the comforter and the one theyve assigned as the woman (usually shorter, weaker) is always the one showing their emotions and being comforted.. GUYS..

BIG STRONG MEN HAVE FEELINGS AND NEED+DESERVE COMFORT TOO..

when its straight girls doing this (which it usually is) it makes me worry for their boyfriends because they've obviously made these gay relationships into what they think is "normal" (a straight relationship) so does that mean they think men just dont have emotions ??? they dont ever think their bfs need comfort too ?? yall.. ur bf deserves just as much love as you do..

like, random example but take heartstopper.. how often do we see nick crying and being comforted by charlie ?? do we ever ??? i cant remember one time, so maybe there are a few but its rare enough that i literally cant remember.. but then how often do we see nick comforting a crying/upset charlie ?? LIKE EVERY OTHER CHAPTER..

i dont have a solid opinion on heartstopper and im def not saying its a bad webcomic/show (personally i enjoy it) but i AM saying that its one of many mlm ships with this dynamic and its actually CANON in this show so its kinda.. ehh..

its definitely not bad to have a similar dynamic and it does NOT make you girly to be the "charlie" in your situation, but god damn dude, why is it EVERY ship ??

kubosai never does this and we all agree on how they make EACH OTHER better and comfort each other and ugh.. its so nice and such a nice stark difference from other mlm ships.. im talking like even in the saiki k community, too, like im not gonna name drop any but i think yall know😭

[sillyrainydays]

babbling about charlie spring and how important he is to me (tw for EDs, OCD, self-harm, and brief discussions of passive suicidal ideation !!)

i need to yap i need to babble. charlie spring guys. charlie spring probably means more to me than any character ever has. so many aspects of his character are deeply relatable to me and they give me so much hope. i just want to go into like. why . 1) having an ED that is not about his body image. i have ARFID. while my habits and symptoms are very different than his, seeing representation of a character with an eating disorder that is NOT related to body image or weight was so cool and important for me. 2) OCD. oh boy. i didn't even realize that i probably had OCD until i read heartstopper. i thought my obsessions were normal. i thought my compulsions were normal. i figured either (1) everyone had them and i was just having a harder time coping or (2) i was a bad person. having a character that shares those struggles really made me feel less alone. 3) this one is harder to talk about. i actually started struggling w sh a week before i read heartstopper for the first time. without going into detail, i was using a very superficial method and convinced myself that it didn't count, despite very much being self-harm. about a year and a half later, i started struggling with the same uh. methods. of self-harm that charlie did. i was terrified and ashamed, but charlie's arc made me feel less alone and less guilty. it reminded me that i could get better. i also wanted to specify that charlie's self-harm being specifically NSSI (non-suicidal self-injury) was SO important to me too. while i have definitely experienced passive suicidal ideation (and it is implied that charlie has too), my self-harm was NEVER done with suicidal intentions. (EDIT FORGOT TO MENTION: i am now 250 days clean :D) also surprise a fourth one! (4) his relationship with his mom. while my relationship with my mom is fairly different than his with his mom on the surface, there can be a lot of similarities. my mom and i don't fight because i don't really stand up for myself. but a lot of the time she says and does things that are fairly harsh and damaging to me. but, similarly to jane spring, my mom has good intentions. my mom's mom was terrible to her, so she never had that good example of a good parent and never had therapy to properly work through the trauma. like. anyways that's it charlie spring is so me! thank you alice oseman for creating a character that means. so so so much to me.

[sweetmoons]

Let's talk about the representation of EDs in Heartstopper season 3

TW: Discussion of Eating Disorders, OCD, self harm, and other mental health topics.

*Some spoilers*

So I just watched season 3 of Heartstopper today and I really really wanted to talk about this because I haven't seen many people talking about it and it's so important to me. Before I say anything, I do want to clarify that the reason I'm speaking about this is because I have struggled with disordered eating for about 6 years now, I'm in recovery currently (yippie!) but it is something that was and still is a big struggle in my life, so I want to comment on how I feel Heartstopper captured that experience.

I will just say from the beginning I think this is the best representation of an Eating Disorder I've personally seen in a piece of fictional media. If anyone has any better examples let me know I would love to check them out, but in my personal experience this is the best I've seen and it honestly shocked me. In the comic Charlie's Eating Disorder is a big part of him definitely but they don't talk too much in detail about how it's tied into his OCD, likely because of comic length restrictions. Now personally I don't have an ED tied to OCD, but I have a friend recently who was doing a project where he was trying to find non-villanizing depictions of OCD in movies and TV, and he was practically tearing his hair out in frustration at how little anyone EVER said OCD by name. So when they in detail talked about how EDs are sometimes caused by body image issues but there's also EDs caused by compulsions (which is what Charlie has) I was honestly so shocked (in a good way).

Just them mentioning how EDs can be caused by compulsions (and also sometimes cause more compulsions) was more than I've seen in any show I think. But when we get to the depiction of what Charlie is actually experiencing I think it shines even more. Now obviously not everyone has the same experiences with their ED but some of the reactions and feelings from the characters hit so close to home that I cried.

Charlie saying he thinks about food almost all day, him lashing out and getting angry at people around him when they try to force him to eat, Charlie saying he's not sure if "I'll ever go back to normal. Whatever normal is." All of those moments resonated so hard with me. And the depictions of relapsing with self harm and not eating were a nice depiction too, showing that just because he started getting help doesn't mean he was magically fixed, and Geoff saying to him "Relapsing doesn't negate all the progress you made." HOLY FUCK That is SUCH an important message for people to hear holy shit.

AND I LOVE LOVE LOVE THAT NICK BEING HIS BOYFRIEND DOESNT MAGICALLY FIX HIM!!! I feel like in a lot of media just with depictions of any mental health disorder, when the mentally ill character has a partner and their partner is like "I luv u pookie bear 🥺" the mentally ill character is just suddenly okay??? Like having a partner was all they needed??? But they emphasized so much how Nick couldn't "fix" him, not only because Charlie needs more help than from just one person, especially professional help, but also because NICK IS JUST A CHILD HIMSELF!!! That's such an important message for kids watching to hear and something I wish I heard as a teenager.

Also the general reaction of people around him to his eating disorder was very accurate to my experience. Charlie's extended family making comments about his appearance and weight despite everything and saying that he seems "like nothing ever happened" just because he got treatment. Oh my god that's so accurate. The line of Charlie saying "I hope I get Grandparents that don't comment on my weight" made me laugh because OH MY GOD that shit reminded me of family gatherings so much. Plus Charlie's frustration of everyone treating him like he's fragile, won't even lie it made me tear up because that's something I personally still struggle with to this day from family. The strong message to the audience that just because someone's disgnosed as mentally ill doesn't make them any less of the person they were before their diagnosis is so so so nice to see.

Sorry this was a lot of me yapping because honestly this is so significant to me and I know it would've been so nice for me to see this 6 years ago when I was 15 and first started developing an ED. But I think Heartstopper is truly doing something incredibly amazing with representation in their show that hasn't been done much in the past and I'm so happy to see this.

[booksandpaperss]

kind of obsessed with the fact you've slowly gotten more blatant with heartstopper hate lmfao😭 it's like. fine to me it's cute but NOTHING SERIOUS IS EVER GOING ON so I gotta be in a really specific mood for it I still haven't watched s2. definitely couldn't be a fixation. and everyone fucking loves it it's the best thing since sliced bread and I'm like. why tho. and then any critique of it is sorta dumbed down to "oh you just don't like how sweet it is but teenagers deserve sweet romance" like ok but why's it gotta be boring though. and too healthy like beyond normal levels of healthy. like this is missing even the usual human levels of miscommunication. and it gets resolved too easy. sorry this was supposed to cut off 4 sentences ago I'm realizing now in your inbox that I apparently have beef with heartstopper

LKSSJJSJS LISTEN listen. I don’t even hate it. truly. I even genuinely enjoyed myself during the nick and Charlie parts bc that’s the part that thought is actually put into. I just hate how much everyone loves it so blindly

honestly my biggest beef with it is that it’s marketed and treated as the most genuine and diverse groundbreaking queer storyline there is when that’s literally so far from true and it really really shows ppls true colors when they think this bc the sapphics and POC are literal props it’s actually absurd for a show that’s supposed to be a safe space for queer ppl

and god do I hate that part of the reason it’s so popular is bc it portrays these queer teenagers as never having a single, physical thought in their entire life. there was this whole plot centered around one single hickey that Charlie had??? and something abt the physical attraction portion of it all, which they did try to show btw, felt disingenuous to me. and I know that’s why it’s so palatable to a mainstream audience and it pisses me off and again it just doesn’t feel genuine. which is ironically one of the main arguments against heartstopper criticism: “it’s not cringe it’s just earnest” when yeah maybe it’s Trying to be earnest but when u look at it from more than a surface level lens it’s not rlly succeeding

and I know the aroace storyline in season 2 with Isaac resonated with a lot of people and I think that’s wonderful, and I actually do think that was something that was done well, but how can you have a storyline around asexuality when you don’t show the contrast in how it is being an allosexual queer person. there was a whole lot of romantic attraction going on but even more tip toeing around the sexual attraction aspect. and I don’t expect it to be like sex education for example in terms of the focus on sex obv , but the lack of acknowledgment of that aspect of the queer experience paired with how much the uwu wholesomeness of it all is played up rlly rubs me the wrong way. once again: it feels dishonest

I was actually talking about this with one of my mutuals the other day and they pointed out that it is very plain that alice olseman did not consult a single queer man in the writers room. and if someone can prove this wrong be my guest but I rlly don’t think the whole physical attraction component would have been done so badly had an actual queer man been on the team. feels kind of like back in summer 2022 when byler shippers would literally shun and harass anyone who even implied that Will’s feelings for Mike probably included physical attraction meanwhile Noah Schnapp himself was making jokes about it bc he’s an actual gay teenager.

not gonna even get into right now how Tara and darcy felt even more like props this season than in the last one and I didn’t even like watching their scenes bc the writing itself felt performative. that’s a whole other post.

and man, wouldn’t it have been so nice if there had actually been people of color in that writers room. On a purely surface level heartstopper has a very diverse cast but once again, peel away even one layer and you realize it’s a bunch of tokenism, which brings me full circle back to my original point: you can’t say it’s peak representation and diversity when it’s whitewashed as hell and doesn’t gaf abt sapphics despite literally being written by one. guess she chose her whiteness over her queerness even when writing a queer story which wowwww sooooo original.

okayyyy anyways did NOT mean to write a whole essay but u discovering ur own beef reminded me of mine lmaooo

all of this was to say that basically I’m not gonna pretend I didn’t enjoy myself during parts of the show, and I don’t wanna shame ppl for liking it that is not at all what I’m trying to do here, it has its own place in queer media and if a show like this came out in like 2010 it would be groundbreaking despite its issues (but again it’s literally 2023 do fucking better) , but I take issue with people treating it like something it’s not and with the amount of love it gets I feel like I have to be really loud about my criticism of it, especially bc usually the criticism of the show that gets any attention isn’t even slandering it for the right reasons and like. if ur gonna hate on something queer and popular do it right

oh and heartstopper writers? maybe try speaking with an actual teenager once in your life before writing their dialogue they do not fucking communicate that well

okay I’m done now finally 🫡

[will80sbyers]

Mike through the show constantly has reactions to things that happens to him and then thinks about it AFTER the fact and reflects on why he did something or said something, we see this on screen where he literally starts elaborating on what happened and what he was feeling after the fact out loud to other people

David said on an interview explicitly that Hopper in s1 acts without knowing why he's acting like that, that in S1 he was blocking his trauma about losing his daughter so much and numbingly going through life that he didn't know why he for example started punching that guy at the bar that he wanted to have information from- the Duffers told him that Hopper was not aware and it seems like he's acting only because of his ego and being pissed off by that guy but that the deep reason he's doing that is because he has trauma from losing his kid and he was excited about playing that type of complexity on screen

so if this happens for Hopper and he has later on moments when he reflects on what made him angry or defensive etc tell me why is it such a out of this world idea that Mike could be very similar and not be consciously aware of having feelings for Will YET even if he is acting defensive because he's having feelings for Will?

That is perfectly possible, and that is exactly how blocking out thoughts of your own queerness growing up works in the first place, you're not aware and you don't realize it most of the time until something happens that makes you aware but you still are acting in a certain way in the meantime without exactly understanding why yet

In the latest season of Heartstopper Nick says to Charlie that he thinks he had a crush for a guy when he was little because of how he acted but he didn't realize it was a crush at the time and just thought he idolized him

Sorry to burst your bubble of everybody being super aware of everything they do all the time but it actually happens constantly to queer people and especially bi people, it happened to me too to be literally acting jealous as fuck with a girl I was in love with but didn't realize that was it because I just thought we were best friends and I realized I liked her as more than that only YEARS after. I didn't even realize being bi was a valid thing thanks to heteronormativity I thought I was straight for years and years and lost so much time and opportunities because of that conditioning from society

Is it possible that Mike already knows? Yes, it's a possibility!

but saying that it's absolutely not possible that he doesn't know is just incorrect, even if he is defensive or having moments of awkwardness with Will or jealousy Mike can still be clueless about the real meaning of his feelings for Will and think he felt like that just because they are best friends in his conscious mind

[leejeann]

This was literally the first thought in my head when I woke up today for some reason, but one thing I love about Heartstopper season 2 is the running theme of not having to forgive someone just because they apologize for hurting you. Like no matter how genuine the sincere they are, you aren't required to welcome them back into your life.

(Spoilers obviously, also rambling lol)

Like the biggest example is that scene with Ben and Charlie after the art show.

(Disclaimer: I have not read the books/comics and I know Ben does some other stuff in them, but for clarification I am talking based specifically on Ben's depiction so far in the show).

I've seen people say Ben is solely trying to manipulate Charlie into forgiving him, but I think it's more complicated than that. I think at least some of what Ben said was sincere. Maybe he does wish he could be more honest about who he is, but is too afraid of being rejected by family or friends. Maybe he does like Charlie to some degree (even if he's pretty bad at taking Charlie's feelings into account for like, anything). And maybe there is some manipulation undertone to it, thinking if he sounds sweet and kind enough that Charlie will forgive him easier or even take him back.

But what he definitely does there is view the apology as transactional. Which is incredibly common in real life too, unfortunately. He admits he was wrong, explains the insecurities he has, apologizes for hurting Charlie and swears he's changing, etc, and has therefore done his half of the transaction. Now Charlie has to finish the transaction by saying "Since you really mean it, I forgive you and you can be in my life again."

Except Charlie doesn't do that, nor should he have to. He's basically like "I hope you're being honest and you're a better person, but I don't have to stick around to watch you prove it." And like, that's such a good lesson to learn. It's one I've had to learn myself in the past, and I've seen it happen with high school friends who've gone no contact with a family member, only to have other family members try to guilt them into accepting the apology because the no-contact person feels remorse or because "they're your family", etc., etc..

If someone hurts you, no matter how sincerely they regret it later or how much they've changed for the better, you're not required to let them immediately, or ever, be close to you again to prove it. And that doesn't mean you can't feel forgiveness toward them either! Forgiveness and letting someone back into your life don't always have to coincide. Of course you can let them in if you want to, but it's ultimately up to you and no one else.