#but not just bc of How It Is. there were other factors

[ismaeldrawsthings]

I am the friend that's too woke bc my concept of gender dynamics and expressions make it difficult for me to understand What The Fuck are People On when they come to this god forsaken website and say "Madeline Miller imposed straight relationship dynamics onto Patrochilles' relationship" or "Madeline Miller made Patroclus feminine".

Is healing an inherently feminine trait for you? Is him not being fond of violence in the book inherently feminine to you? I don't understand.

It may not go with the context of The Iliad, but it goes perfectly with the context of TSOA. Of course Patroclus, the boy who accidentally took a life when he was still a child, wouldn't like violence. It goes hand in hand within the context of the novel. As well as him being a healer, having learned with Chiron. All of this make sense in the context of TSOA.

Now... And hear me out on this, you're allowed to disagree: I don't believe this is really mischaracterization.

I personally don't believe such thing as "mischaracterizing" a mythological character exist. Since mythological characters are moldable depending on: The culture in which they are written, who wrote them, the historical context, among others. They are multifacetic and their characterizations depend on the aforementioned factors. For example, in The Iliad, Helen fucking hated Paris and wanted to go back to Sparta with her husband. Meanwhile, in The Odyssey, Helen immitates the voice of the wives of the men inside the wooden horse in order to torture them, wanting to sabotage their victory in order to stay in Troy. These are two completely different and opposite characterizations of her character. Helen is one of the biggest examples of how characterization works in mythology. Some people believe she loved Paris and went to Troy willingly with him, others believe she hated him and he took her forcefully and raped her. All of these interpretations are true bc myths are ambiguous and adapt to the people's beliefs and practices.

And they adapt to their time, for which I say that Patroclus' character in TSOA was not a mischaracterization of him as a whole. Patroclus represents kindness, and the traits of a kind man were different in ancient Greece than they are today. It doesn't matter. What matter is that his kindness is a key part of his character, so Miller's writing isn't wrong. It isn't a misunderstanding of his character. She based this "anti-violence" version of him on Shakespeare's interpretation of his character, but Shakespeare was not wrong either. Shakespeare wrote what a kind man was in his time, and Miller wrote what a kind man is in her time based on the representation of kindness from previous time. And both of them are true. Both of them can be true, as well as all the prior.

People say Miller's characterization is wrong and could've not existed within the context of The Iliad or the Trojan war as a whole, for which I say: this is symbolic. The Trojan war is symbolic, is mythological, it does not exist. Is a lesson on moral ambiguity within the context of war and how a man's life is not worth more than other's (and a bunch of other things). It's relevant, it transcends time. It can be adapted and reinterpreted to give that same lesson in different historical contexts.

Why do we keep learning about The Iliad? Why does it matter? Why should it matter, if people are so insisten on the fact that it happened in ancient times to ancient people within ancient contexts? Because it is still relevant. War is still relevant. We cannot just say "oh, those old Greeks!" And rub our hands off because it doesn't apply to us. A modern reinterpretation of these old myths and characters are important for you to still understand the lessons these myths were meant to give in your modern context. And is not wrong to do so. Is not a "mischaracterization" or "misinterpretation". Is just another interpretation.

But that's just what I believe lmfao you're free to disagree with me

Summarizing: I don't believe you can really mischaracterize a mythological character as long as your characterization of said mythological character doesn't interfere with the purpose of their existence in the myth they are from. Patroclus is Achilles humanity and compassion, he stands out for his empathy, diplomacy and kindness. Madeline Miller does a great job of representing this, regardless of whether her representation of these traits differ from what they were like in an ancient context.

[mer-acle]

i hold all the power (evil laugh, evil laugh)

Give me...

The big athena hcs

I desire knowledge and inspiration (evil laugh, evil laugh)

Haha

You kinda put me on the spot there. Not bc I don't have big headcanons but bc I'm like how do I phrase this without being like "here's the plot of that fic I wrote" yk? And now I'm unsure what constitutes a big headcanon... so I'm just gonna give you some more random ones and maybe you can help me out with what you were thinking of? (O.O)

For Epic specifically: Her owl form is a dark barn owl, bc they're really pretty and rare and have ginger feathers that match her hair

She dislikes Poseidon so much because he's so much like her father but her perception of him isn't softened by the love she has for Zeus.

Prometheus really saved her after Pallas's death. He kinda filled the void that losing Triton as a paternal figure had left more so than that of Pallas herself, but he took her along for his little creation projects (like the humans whoops) and they really match each other's freak. Yk. Until Zeus takes Prometheus away and definitely forbids Athena from visiting. I will literally murder him one of these days.

Speaking of Zeus taking people away, Athena was STRUGGLING after Pallas. Unsurprisingly, but still. Nobody but Hephaestus knows her from when she was still pretty openly mourning, they're all too young, and he never really asked why, but my girl was so depressed and lonely. She spend IRL HOURS in Quick Thought rewatching that battle and trying to figure out the moment where she went wrong. She knows Zeus intervened, but it doesn't matter to her, it's her spear, it's her kill. He was all like "for a nymph?" when she asked to take Pallas's name. "well, if you think that is a title worthy of your status..." It was her most open rebellion against his wishes for a while.

Her favorite domain is wisdom, but it's followed by crafting, not war. Don't get me wrong, she enjoys a good fight, but if she had to choose and wasn't worried about Zeus's opinion, she would choose crafting over war any day. The reason in my hc is how the domains are assigned, she was basically born with Wisdom, her powers are all about thought, and Zeus later assigned her with warfare which her powers work well with, but weren't technically meant for it. Meanwhile crafting is her "Passion domain" meaning her power in it literally stems from her intense enjoyment for creating. Imagine "What else can I do" from Encanto, but it's her discovering making clothes for the first time. The angst factor of this obviously being "My life has one mission, create the greatest warrior" Why is that her one mission? Is it the crushing weight of who she has to be?

My favorite bigger concept has to be her relationship with truth. In other words, Athena lies and manipulates her way through life, she is smarter than her father but knows he holds the power, so her council is whatever works in the moment, if she knows it's hopeless, she'll tell him what he wants to hear. Life has become a game for her, a game where she sells her soul for approval, bc she's lost those who loved her unconditionally, and can't trust those around her bc they're all trapped in the game with her, she doesn't want to be the favorite, she needs to be the favorite, it's the only way to survive, the only way for some semblance of safety and control, and yes, she gets along with mortals better than gods because they hold no power over her, they can't threaten the position she's worked so hard to achieve. Until Odysseus compromises a part of her that she hadn't thought she still had. Attachment never felt like danger with Pallas, but it does now, because what does it matter if you're more powerful when you respect the other person too much not to honor their wishes, should they tell you to leave them alone? If asked, she will have to leave, and that's terrifying (None of that would be overly conscious before My goodbye but for me, that breakup deep down always will be Athena being scared of her own feelings and trying to stop it before it goes too far and being at least 15 years too late.)

Woah that got dark lol I just wrote the last section and was like 👀fuck I am projecting SO bad. Like... gods I am so not okay. Jokes on me I thought I had headcanons all I have is trauma lmao

Anyways lol

Hope you liked it, and do let me know if you had something else in mind, I'll do my best :3

[th3-c0ll3ct3r]

Okay I want to hear your thoughts on sapnap and mcc bc oh boy that sounds interesting

No because, genuinely there are old clips of people laughing when they bring him up because they know he's popular but they don't want to see anything bad about him. Like you can barely tell it's chuckle.

As you may know originally teams were categorised based on 2 factors. Vibes. And if they could go a long period of time without swearing or not.

In the Skizz and Imp podcast, Scott laments about how it was so hard to categorize people who could not go an extended period of time with swearing in their stream and with people who could not stop swearing.

And there is more people who are PG/ can go a long time without swearing, then non-pg people, the podcast was recorded roughly a bit before the sapnap drama with MCC but it was still bubbling.

I need you to go back and watch that podcast because even if they were clear examples you can still sense who he's talking about, because genuinely sapnap would swear so much but even non-pg people wanted to avoid playing with him. If you go back to watches old MCC wins you can hear the nervous chuckles of people when he begin to swear.

Additionally one time they were trying out a new system on MCC and a lot of people were aware of that and it came out that the math was wrong and two teams should have got first place instead of just one because of the math, and One team was willing to just relent a bit and at the end of the day walk away. But Sapnap on his own had caused such a fuss that they still had to give him a coin and had to let him compete in DodgeBolt, and how to get a crown for him post his picture saying that he won along with his team. I cannot describe to you the absolute tantrum that man went on. Over a coin. He was so disrespectful that he didn't come back for a couple mccs after.

There is a genuine reason why a collective group of people do not want him to compete in MCC.

And you're probably wondering why did he compete in the MCC recently? Because before the main deal of him being signed to kick.com he had already signed the application and had been accepted to do MCC. The same week he came out and said that he was joining kick.com and that a lot of it young viewers should join kick.com

People with begging Scott to remove him, but kick.com just gave that man 20 million and he would definitely find a suitable lawyer to take his case because he earns a substantial amount of money from MCC.

But why would he Sue over MCC? I have a longer post going through this, but I will explain it here to.

Scott couldn't say no. For alot of reasons but here are 2 off the top of my lil head

1. Him not allowing sapnap to compete in MCC after already accepting his application is illegal form of discrimination regarding someone's work. Because he would be discriminating against how he does his work and what he uses to do his work, ( a more clearer example of this would be for someone to reject another person's application because they found out that they were Binman/wasteman, explaining the other people thought it was filthy). In reality

Scott had no basis to withdraw his application and to withdraw his place because most arguments (which are true), had came from social media and it could be argued that the people on social media influence Scott to make that decision and therefore sapnap could have lost a large portion of revenue as a self-employed person that MCC and Scott would have had to repay him based on statistics.

Again I have a longer post going through the law on this but I fact checked everything, and he would genuinely have a legal basis to sue them for discrimination.

And Scott had to take all the stray bullets for that. Because in the UK you have to consent to a formal document being shared with someone else. And even though this is an application for a game it's still an application. So he couldn't share the content of the application because it's illegal here.

Also in the podcast Scott mentions him having a waiting list and then bring this up the applications and you brings up a rough idea of when they application started, and you could actually guess when the applications started From when sapnap started turning up less frequently. Meaning that he was one of the many reasons why the application was made in the first place.

2. Publicity. Sapnap brought a lot of viewers to can watch MCC and it's argued that if Dream and George were there but Sapnap was not there, the pair would not participate regardless of what team they were on because their friends. (BBH actually brings up how close their friendship is when he was defending dream against one of his many allegations and you can tell how close the friend group is. An in Sapnap's Defense of dream he literally goes on about how close they are and in the deleted vod he said wherever he goes I go).

But getting back on track, at the time without the large audience that MCC had it would have not been as sustainable as it is today. They definitely contributed to the success in the early days along with others as it will seen as a new form of Minecraft Monday.

He also raged pretty hard when in MCC 14 Scott's team won after giving hints to his teamate, to win ace race. To which half of his team didn't even finish. And they actually placed lower than top 3 in that event. Scott goes on to say about how he and other had tested it, they were giving instructions and Sapnap did actually finish.

But he was so mad that Scott team had won at a game that EVERYONE was objectively bad at that thiers a 15 minutes video of him screaming about it in Youtube.

Scott later went on to say him and many others who did finish also tested the map, and he always give hints to his team, AND SAPNAP HAD WON AN EVENT WITH SCOTT'S HELP AND USING SCOTT'S HINTS. It's only when he didn't win he had a problem with it.

Sapnap cried when he didn't win, and blame everyone about it yet shot up his ego when he did.

And admittedly he did get better as time went on but dude needs a whole ass team fr-

Are realistically you couldn't call the two of them friends they were more, a friend of a friend. And even if Scott didn't like them objectively over people like them and that's why they were there.

Sapnap but did not come back after the kick.com incident and I doubt he will.

And on that notion a lot of streamers have younger audiences ranging from children to teenagers to young adults. While kick.com is a primarily adult site, not completely adults but you're gonna see some weird things. The majority of streamers who participate in MCC, obviously are going to be put into teams. And if you were put into a team with Sapnap, who was streaming on kick.com, you might think to yourself "wow he'd fun ill check him out!" then boom pedo in your Dms.

For many streamers involved in the event he was not ideal to keep around because realistically he was endangering of a people's audiences while pumping out publicity from his own.

It was not fair to other streamers that their young audiences could we expose to an objectively talented person streaming on one of the worst sites known, and he signed this deal back when kick.com has no moderation, so imagine all the convicted sex offenders, criminals and gambling on the site, then in an attempt to get a younger demographic onto the side it paid Sapnap using the money that they gained from gambling to effectively switch over ( because, and Tubbo did a stream on this and summarized it accurately, because he had a couple conversations with this CEO and for money. Not for the audience).

Meaning that everyone is immediate circle who wanted to continue to watch his content or learn who he was through major events like MCC would download the app and then over your targeted by a lot of older people.

And actually this was the basis that allowed Scott to never bring him back but Scott could not get rid of him for the MCC because it would be legally discrimination.

There are a bunch of things too that I could say about how at the start the only people he would team with would be mostly from the dream SMP and how that directly correlates with how people described him in person, ( trying to control and dominate people), and how people like Niki were too scared to say no at the time, but it be a bit late my dude

The takeaway from this is that he was MCC Problem Child and that Scott couldn't immediately kick him out due to discrimination despite reassurance that he changed his behavior only to immediately sign to kick.com. How he'd endangered both his young audiences and other if he actually stayed. How we used to scream and yell at every one of his mistakes to the point where people didn't want to compete with him. How he would target people who faulted him within the game. And even how he practiced the game so much to the point where they had to make new maps and that if he would lose it would genuinely be down to his team and not him as a player because he had practiced so much meaning that his team felt worse after they didn't win because they knew it was their fault instead of just being happy to play the game ( like you remember when they blew up parkour warrior and replaced it with a new map because of them)

He was just realistically a mess and I'm surprised they tolerated him so long, because the amount of money they have to drop on changing things because the Dream Team had paid someone to recreate some of the maps so that they could practice, and then other people started doing that in which they would memorize a certain game practice that game and then come out on top ( an example of this would be technoblade, who memorised all materials needed for BuildMart and they had to change it and he was basically told that he couldn't do that and he was actually sorry because he didn't know because other people like we're doing it. And again with Technoblade killing people in Bingo to which in the Stream he says he didn't know that you could kill people in Bingo and once people figured it out that would be the strategy until they changed it. Philza practicing ace race maps as he had someone build an almost identical copy of the original because other people were doing it. Wil and other, trying to perfect The Glitch block technique and that's one point someone had commissioned another person to remake the map to see where it was going wrong so that they could utilize the bug instead of playing the game). All these things have in common that they were all in the same server at one point and that the dream team had started this trend but all of them stop doing it when they were told to stop doing it but the Dream Team didn't to the point where even Sands of Time had to be changed, parkour warrior, sky battle, battle box, parkour tag and TGTTOS had to be changed, and they actually sparked the "maybe we should have different maps" trend

Because it was a poorly hidden secret that they'd paid people to re-create maps so that they could practice. (but Scott giving hints is cheating he says while paying someone to remake parkour tag so that they can get a perfect run)

[doom-dreaming]

i engage with halo in the same way i engage with any story/universe that has expanded beyond what's good for it - gather all the details and then decide piecemeal what i want to keep and what i want to Make Better

[jrueships]

guess whos not going in at all this week, actually

[themyscirah]

Thinking about how Wonder Woman in the Pérez run/early 87 series really needed a secret identity. (Stick with me here!) Now, this isn't something that as a reader i would want (I've never had much interest in "Diana Prince") or that would be helpful for Diana's mission, and I actively think a true secret id would be something Diana would dislike immensely and hate to use and maintain. But I honestly think having one, at least at a limited level, would have saved Diana and her loved ones SO much pain down the road. Because while they loved Diana, her presence in their live brought so many villains back to their home which in turn hurt the people she cared about

Like I just think about all the horrible things that the Kapetelises (especially Vanessa, she was used as such a punching bag) went through just by virtue of loving Diana... Its truly awful the unintended consequences that came with loving her and taking her into their home, just because everyone knew she was Wonder Woman. Like this was very public knowledge, they were on the news all the time and newspaper and magazine covers and everything together

Which while cool still was damaging! I mean Nessie was in MIDDLE SCHOOL of all places and everyone knew she was hosting Diana. It was shown that whether or not most people at school wanted to be around her directly and saw her as interesting or desirable depended directly on Diana and if she was in town with them! And that's really just the tip of the iceberg there with Vanessa but she was put under so much pressure and given such awful conceptions of herself through her peers knowing she was close with Diana.

It's just such a mess. And like I don't think a secret identity would be something that she would ever think of having realistically at this point, especially because she's so new, and there isn't a strong and visible need for one, (and her public identity as ww was already attached to her loved ones) but I do think that many things may have turned out better for the Kapetelises later if they were publically joined by Diana Deneiros, Julia's niece from Greece, as opposed to Wonder Woman

[britneyshakespeare]

genuinely also curious from other ppl who have drawn from live models. whenever i talk about this experience ppl ask me if the models were all attractive and young and in-shape. in my figure drawing class only two of the regular models could somewhat fit that description. most of them were middle-aged or older people of ordinary (but diverse) proportions. like my experience may not be representative but i find it curious that ppl hear about modelling for a drawing class and wonder if that's like a hot 20-something job. it doesn't seem to be lol

[ur-stepdad]

a bit of context if you're not quite sure how to answer:

the girls in the book Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret would fall into the "very positive" category - they were excited to get their periods and would speak openly with their friends about puberty

a child who obsessed over a fear of menstruation, felt dread when they thought about it, or was deeply in denial about this aspect of puberty, would fall on the "very negative" end

note: anyone being judgmental or hateful/bullying on this post will be blocked (ie. transphobia, disrespect toward intersex people, biological essentialism, etc.)

[butchshepherd]

this is the information that we had about D dog. that's the info on her page (put through a translator, but its accurate) regarding how she is with other animals, and during the interview reactivity was only mentioned as a possibility not as a known fact about this dog. only dog? no problem. no cats? even less of a problem. potential for reactivity? sure. it can happen with any dog. known aggression towards other dogs? why the hell are you waiting for people to apply and go through a fucking interview before letting them know a week later that they're not fit for this dog and that that's the reason why. all that does is give people false hopes and upset that could be avoided by clear, direct, honest communication of a dog's issues/challenges. i heard about the specific language/way of wording things shelters and rescues use but i had hoped it wouldnt be a universal thing, at least not something i'd experience myself. turns out i was wrong!

maybe im being immature and unfair to these people, they probably dont all have the same amount of knowledge of the dogs and communicating all that inbetween volunteers/workers/and us can be difficult. but im angry and im allowed to express that ffs.

[welcometomybraincomics]

One time, a door-to-door wi-fi salesman came by and when I said "I'm not in charge of the wi-fi," you know, to get him to go away, and he said, "Oh, well is your husband around then?"

Lemme tell you, as someone who is frequently asked what grade they're in, I could not help the wave of revulsion that went through me

[pebbledrat]

The longer I'm around the more convinced I become that Jill and Michael also had some kinda codependent-besties archetype thing going on?? they may or may not even have been aware of it, but like. they're kind of a matched set, you know? Frequently purchased together, do not separate them

[3416]

just watched the other tsn call out videos and am truly reeling at the idea that these men consider a locker room with single stall showers bad like....... they WANT to shower in one big room together?????? like they actively dislike having individual stalls??? i shouldn't be shocked by that fact but i am

[thedreadvampy]

it's been a strange arc so far

when I was 19-21 and having an extremely imbalanced relationship with someone in their mid 30s I was like 'we are both adults so the fact that this is fucking me up is my fault'

when I hit my late 20s and saw how young people in their late teens and early 20s seem now I was like 'oh wait I was so fucking young I didn't know shit about my own limits or about managing relationships and I don't know why someone in their mid to late 30s would be into that except for nefarious purposes'

the weird bit is now I'm into my 30s - not even that far into my 30s - and while I still wholeheartedly believe that last thing about how young (and self destructive) 20 year olds are, I'm also kind of like 'huh, actually nobody I know that age has their shit remotely together and frankly the reason this fucked me up is because NEITHER of us knew what the fuck we were doing it how to cope, for different reasons and at different life stages, and there probably wasn't any malice or intent to control as much as there was Blind Flailing.'

[jasmancer]

god this fucking sucks.

[izzy-b-hands]

Things I've thought about this morning:

-How buying one of the pieces of merch I've found from a creator I like might actually be an accurate shirt for me to wear in general (I've stretched for today, and the bones feel so Squishy, as reference to it w/out explaining more bc. I don't want to.)

-How I used to not fully understand why people w/arthritis were rather grumpy to outright mean in the morning (including patients at the clinic and also my grandparents.)

After all, my joints sucked even when I was a kid and it hurt constantly (likely undx'd juvenile arthritis, got mentioned once by my doc back then and then never tested for so who knows), but so what?

Surely all joints for everyone are like this and age doesn't affect that in any way, so there was no need to feel instantly grumpy once you're awake for the day (though I do want to say that you still shouldn't be like. Taking out that feeling on other people, the patients and my grandparents were in the wrong for that in my opinion, but I give them more grace re: that now.)

-Guys. Age affects it. It hurts so much worse. I stretched extra this morning purely bc I'd rather the bones and joints feel Squishy and slightly less Painful than just Painful and Sort of Squishy. The sounds I'm making when I get up are even louder than they used to be. I think the neighbours can hear me sometimes. I don't like that.

Idk what the point of this post was going to be aside from me whinging abt my joints, so let's call the moral of this post:

Maybe I should ask for that merch for Xmas from my family since all we're doing to celebrate this year apparently is buying gifts. Legit, Mum has no idea if they're even meeting up back in ND. Wild. But I digress; they don't know what else to get me so. Squishy Bones Shirt.

If you can safely stretch/yoga/something along those lines at some point in your day, do it. I did yoga more when I was younger and I never should have let myself lapse with it. I'm back to doing more of it but even then. The bones. The joints. Save your bones and joints and just stretch a little. That or join me in making noises such as 'OUaghh' and 'ARghhfuck' and occasionally 'woahlksjifhdsafhnj god I think I'm stuck here' whenever you need to get out of bed/up from the floor/out of a chair/sometimes while just like. Standing there doing dishes or queuing or staring blankly at a wall Blair Witch-style.

[psychiclounge]

i do think the whole "gale is a slowburn romance" thing is very funny bc like. i get being concerned whether or not you're on the right path for his romance on a first playthrough when you don't know his big confession is in act 2, but still calling it a slowburn just bc you don't fuck in act 1 is . it sure is