#but mostly i feel fanon is too established and this would be less than a drop in the ocean of accepted/acceptable ghoul hcs | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

im-outta-pac-puns · 2 years ago

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I feel like the main reason that folk tend to get bitey about the ghost gang’s treatment in particular is because they were given a clear, established character arc right from the get go: overcome their selfish tendencies and redeem themselves.

However, there was a problem with that. The exact conditions are:

Ghost gang redeemed = rewarded with bodies back

Which means that, once they are redeemed, they wouldn’t be, well, the GHOST gang anymore. And due to brand recognition, they couldn’t really do that.

At the same time, if the ghost gang redeemed themselves but were not given their bodies back, it would make pac and stratos and co look bad for not holding up their end of the deal.

So the result is that they spend the majority of late season 1 and season 2 more or less in a limbo of only getting minor bits of development and then regressing at the whim of the story. Towards the end, it gets so bad that I feel that Pinky may have regressed to being outright irredeemable by her actions in certain season 2 episodes. Blinky gets more than one line in exactly THREE season 2 episodes. Inky becomes a borderline incomprehensible amalgamation of whichever role he’s picking up from the ghost gang member who’s VA couldn’t be bothered to voice them that episode. Clyde just kinda tags along for the ride and occasionally makes quips. Clyde was generally dumbed down and the vibe was just off, idk.

The other secondary characters don’t get this same outrage because they don’t have the same defined arcs in the first few episodes. Sure, I could go on an elaborate tangent about the inner depths of stratos, and sir c had a few minor plot threads that popped up here and there, but both of those examples, and the others, are either stuff that is only really noticable in subtext or are, yknow, SECONDARY ARCS that only somewhat tie into the main plot and mostly serve to enhance their characters.

Heck, I’d even argue that Cyli and Spiral don’t really have established arcs at first. any arc they do get is more or less confined to single episodes. The Ghost gange are some of the only characters given this treatment of a clear end goal in mind that just. gets completely abandoned.

And it’s not even like it was just a thing that was cut off before the show could finish. That we could’ve excused. But the writing observed in later episodes does not imply this. Rather, it shows the writers slowly beginning to diminish the ghost gang’s presence, downplaying their use, come up with the most contrived reasons to prevent them from helping out, and so on.

The difference between them and other secondary characters is just how obvious and volatile their arc sabotage was. It becomes doubtful after a certain point that they would have even been fully redeemed at all, which is awful to think about when comparing them to their actually good episodes where this goal could more or less be seen as a given.

Aside from that, I agree with most of the fanon interpretation points but i have observed that the majority of fanfiction with clyde tends to dumb him down considerably. Like I know the show was kinda doing that too towards the end, but I mean jeez, he has at least some fields of knowledge he excells at!!

I do have a question, and it's about the show itself.

When it comes to the Ghost Gang constantly showing up and being a little special, don't you think that the writers treated them pretty badly? I can only remember one episode where the Ghost Gang was actually pretty important to the plot of the episode but then the writers never let them have that treatment again. Do you think they could have used more material for them? I mean they literally have a miniture Pac Man and his ghost rivals! They deserve more recognition than that. :(

Another thing I wanted to ask, when it comes to the PMATGA fandom, what's a reoccurring theme that goes on with some of the characters, and would you prefer some of the character's fanon selves more than canon?

Ooo, I like these discussion questions!

Okay so, for your first question, I agree that one would expect the Ghost Gang to be a little more prominent in the show since they are almost as iconic as the Pac-Man character itself. But when it comes to the Ghost Gang in terms of PMATGA, I think it's important to take note of their role in the plot compared to other characters' roles, because that shows where they stand in terms of screen time/material.

The thing is, when you're writing for a kids' show and you have a lot of characters that you need to work with, you'll eventually have to make a compromise with the writing/development for some characters in order to keep the focus on the main ones. So they'd have to dedicate a certain amount of screentime to the most relevant of characters, which would be in an order similar to this;

Main characters: Pac, Cyli, Spiral (gets the most screentime) Antagonist: Betrayus (screentime in proportion to the protagonists') Secondary/Supporting characters: Sir C, Stratos, Ghost Gang, Apex, etc (gets less screentime than main characters, but are still relevant to the plot to warrant more screentime than minor characters) Minor characters: Sunny, Zac, Ogle, etc (of least importance to the plot, thus less screentime)

Now that being said, just because a character is a minor or secondary character, doesn't mean they have zero relevance to the plot! One of the best tips out there for writing is to give even your minor characters a good background and a bit of development. But since this IS a show that is geared towards young kids, I don't think the writers would've felt incentivised enough to spend too much time on characters that are not the driving force behind the plot. (Not that they felt incentivised enough to even keep the dang plot consistent, lmao).

We did see the Ghost Gang get a bit of spotlight in some episodes (like No Body Knows), and other than those episodes, they still show up in like 90% of the episodes regardless. Do I think that they could've had a bigger role other than being underground spies for Pac? Absolutely. But they still got their times to shine in some episodes at least, like The Pac Be with You and Stand by Your Pac-Man. Or at least on an individual level, like with Blinky and Pac-Fu.

Another thing to note is that I don't think the writers treated just the Ghost Gang badly...looking at the show and its inconsistencies, I think the writers treated every character badly at some point xD It all could just come down to mediocre writing in general. Again, it's a kids show so they probably knew they can get away with lacklustre writing.

And as for your second question, hmm...

I've been part of the PMATGA fandom since 2015 and have seen many types of fanon archetypes/themes come and go, but one thing that has remained rather consistent is the fandom's tendency to take what is canon and write their own spin on it, like rewrites, AU's, continuations, backstories, headcanons that differ greatly from canon, etc.

But it's worth noting that all of these things are almost exclusively about Betrayus. Pac and some other characters get some of the spotlights from time to time, but depending on how long you've been in the fandom, you'll notice a strong preference towards Betrayus among the fans. Which is fine, but I would love for some of the other characters to get a bit of attention too.

But either way, here are some reoccurring themes I've noticed among characters in fanon (not counting my own fanon works). (!!these are only my own observations, others may have different interpretations!!)

Pac - consistent with canon, but with some headcanons that he's either autistic or suffers from anxiety/cancer/eating disorders. In some AU's, he's given a different character for a parent/guardian.

Cyli - consistent with canon, but sometimes a bit more gothic and/or mean.

Spiral - consistent with canon, but a bit dumbed down...

Elli - often rewritten from canon to no longer be a love interest for Pac, or sometimes her personality is tweaked to have a bit more character.

Skeebo - sometimes consistent with canon, sometimes depressed with a 50/50 chance of having a redemption arc.

Stratos - mostly consistent with canon, but often portrayed in a bad light

Blinky - consistent with canon, but with a rebellious biker aesthetic

Inky - consistent with canon, but with trauma

Clyde - mmm, not a lot of fan works of him, personality-wise at least. He needs more luv :(

Pinky - Consistent with canon, though some fans portray her as a much calmer character, while other fans go hard on the Tsundere theme.

Specter - Frequently portrayed as a love interest for Betrayus.

Betrayus - If I got a penny for every Betrayus fan-child or fan-wife/husband OC I saw in the fandom since 2015 then I'd be rich enough to bring the show back. So an 8/10 chance he's portrayed as being romantically involved with someone. Or having children.

[These current observations may be subject to change]

Out of all of these characters, I only prefer Elli's fanon self over canon, and a bit of Pinky's fanon self (aka less of a Tsundere). For the rest, I prefer their canon selves. However, that doesn't mean that I'm against exploring some of these fanon archetypes in some of my own fanon work :)

#pmatga #rambling #ghost gang

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xxtha-blog · 2 years ago

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Fanon Dreamtale Tropes: Dream Tries a Negative Apple

One of my least favourite Dreamtale storylines that the fandom likes to drop randomly into their stories is having Dream try to eat a negative apple after Nightmare corrupts.

I don't really care that it's not canon or couldn't happen canonly, forget that for now, what I care about is how horrifically detrimental to a story it is. Like we do know what that implies, right? We can understand the gravity of that decision? How absolutely asinine it is for basically any character ever?

If it occurs after Nightmare corrupts, most stories, even super fanon ones, have already set up three things:

1. Dream knows about the corruption

2. Dream has a single positive apple

3. Dream is protecting that positive apple because it's the last one

If these are true, and you either make your Dream try or imply your Dream tried to eat a negative apple (regardless of it succeeds) you have just told the audience the following things about the character:

1. Dream is so self absorbed and selfish he'd rather the ENTIRE MULTIVERSE suffer and die than literally ANY other option

2. Despite suicide being an alternative better option because at least then there is no risk of him also being alive to cause suffering or suffer alongside everyone, (even if the result is the same positivity dies), he STILL didn't choose that first.

3. His goal is not to help anyone, not to understand anyone, not help anything, but rather, it is to watch the entire multiverse crumble by giving Nightmare exactly what he wants as there is no other genuine explanation for what he could think would happen should he actually be able to eat that apple.

I don't think I can properly describe to you the magnitude of that decision. It's so unhelpful to anyone, including Dream, that only the most evil, sadistic, piece of shit character would ever even, for a second, consider it. Even villains, even the most disgustingly repulsive characters, who would murder someone without a second though, at least have the self interest to not want THEMSELVES to suffer too. They want to at least be able to enjoy the suffering they cause. This, on the other hand, not only comes with the ultimate eternal suffering for literally every other person in the multiverse, but also comes with the suffering of the person who ate the apple themselves. At that point you might as well hope you die, in which case, what was the point?

It's so mind bogglingly evil, so incomprehensibly self destructive, that I can't even give you a proper 'evil' comparison. It's like suicide murdering an entire multiverse into a slow and painful death, only you suffer the slow and painful death with them.

And stories in this fandom will just casually suggest this! "Oh, Dream was feeling bad and he said why not?" HUH? And often times they move on without another thought. Others will set their entire story up on this premise and still write Dream as some sympathetic maybe a little evil but mostly sad character, it just doesn't line up in the slightest.

Dream knows exactly what will happen if a story already established Nightmare corrupted. Dream has the last apple if he's currently a guardian and you've set up no alternative story to contradict that. I don't know why this fandom enjoys this trope so much, but I strongly implore people not to drop the suggestion Dream decided to turn off all brain cells and attempt to plunge the entire multiverse into a positivity-less hell where the only emotions anyone will ever experience ever again are those of negativity because he was feeling depressed. I also cannot stress enough that depression, anxiety, ptsd, you name the bad emotion, doesn't suddenly make someone the biggest piece of shit in the multiverse right next to Nightmare and it is not a motivation nor an excuse for this action.

You've immediately destroyed whatever semblance of a good character you were trying to write in the first place and turned him into Corrupted Nightmare 2.0 only this time, he did it on purpose. There's no amount of 'oh he was sad, oh he just really wanted to know, oh he was curious' that can explain the magnitude of sadomasochistic pure evil that would have to go behind it. It's character assassination to the highest degree, and I'm not talking about canon, it's character assassination for almost any Dream you were trying to write in the first place.

All this to say, it's definitely my least favourite Dreamtale Fanon trope people use in this fandom.

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maxwell-grant · 3 years ago

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Cass wouldn’t even begrudingly tolerate [the Black Bat], because she’s even less lenient than Bruce on killing and far more willing to throw down.' - THANK YOU for remembering that.

Cass is my favorite Batfam member, the only one really that I have an active interest in reading about. I'd be incredibly ignorant to not bring bring up such a crucial aspect of her characterization. And even if I didn't personally care for her, well, last thing I'd want is to be another source of frustration for Cass fans. Lord knows there's enough of those to go around.

mousebrass also asked: On that note, how do you imagine a meeting between Cass and the Shadow going?

Fair warning: This one took me 6 hours to write, and it became a hell of a lot longer than I imagined. I liked Cass a lot, but I never quite realized I had this many feelings regarding her until I was tasked with writing this, and a lot of things clicked for me regarding my plans for The Shadow thanks to this ask. @mousebrass, thank you. I mean it. I think I may have found something here I've spent years looking for. Hope you enjoy the post.

I'm thankful that this scenario is only really taking place in a hypothetical fanon where both characters can get a fair shot, because I wouldn't trust DC with this premise. I don't trust DC with either of them as is.

There's a lot of ways that this crossover could go on about taking place naturally, initially because Cass is already connected to some of Batman's pulpier elements, due to her connections to Lady Shiva and the League of Assassins, and one could connect Cass to Myra Reldon (who really should just be race swapped if ever brought back so she can stand out as the cool character she is, without the yellowface gimmick holding her back). There's two things I think are crucial to making the most of this idea, and the first of which has to do with the subject of killing. I usually don't like to come up with hypothetical team-ups for The Shadow that focus too much on the fact that he kills, because it's far from the most significant aspect of his character to focus on, much of it is written from a wrong understanding of the character, and it never amounts to anything other than perfunctory. But here, not only is it completely unavoidable to discuss, here there is actually a very, very substantial grounding as to why this has to be such a big part of the story.

The first and foremost thing that's gotta be established to everyone reading that doesn't know already is this: Cassandra Cain, more so than Batman, more so than any other DCU hero, has a tolerance towards murder lower than zero, and this is completely non-negotiable. She will throw herself on the path of an assault rifle to stop men trying to kill her from accidentally killing each other. The defining moment of her incredibly grim backstory is that she was trained from birth to be the world's greatest murderer, and her first kill traumatized her so badly that she has pivoted as far away from that as possible. I stress a lot that the Shadow should not be written as the trigger-happy maniac comics made him into and that the pulp version killed mostly to defend himself and others, generally left criminals to the police if possible, offered plenty of second-chances, had stories dedicated to the rehabilitation of criminals and so on, but none of this would matter to Cass.

Cass has literally chosen suicide over the prospect of living with murder on her hands time and time again, and The Shadow kills. When he kills, he does so without remorse, with unshakeable certainty. He hates death, he doesn't want lives to be at risk in the first place. But people will die if he doesn't do anything, and what he can do, what he exists to do, is turn the tools of evil against evil, and murder is the oldest tool of evil there is. He doesn't kill because a war scarred him, he doesn't kill because he's got a demon in his soul, he doesn't kill because he's mentally off balance, he doesn't kill because he's evil or sadistic or arrogant or anything of the sort. He kills because the men he fights chose death when they sought to harm innocents and fire guns at him. He kills because he is Death itself.

Regardless of how compassionate he is or can be, regardless of the fact that he's motivated by a desire to protect people, regardless of how justified he is, he is still dropping corpses and laughing maniacally doing so. Cass's real arch-enemy isn't Shiva or David Cain, it's Death, it's the thing that she's fundamentally most opposed to. And guess what The Shadow gets compared to often enough? Literally the very first line of the very first book where we get to see him, this is how we are introduced to him:

So the premise here is that we are taking a character who is defined by her fundamental opposition to death with every fiber of her being, who understands death on a level no other human being does, who is traumatized and hard-wired to detest death at all costs and to choose suicide over it, and asking her to team up with The Grim Reaper.

Even if he received the most abject lesson conceivable on the sheer wrongness of murder, even if he does put down the guns around Cass out of respect for her, he cannot protect his agents and others if he cannot shoot or kill those who try to harm them, and the protection of the agents is absolutely non-negotiable and not at all something he's willing to fuck around with by trying out gadget kung fu superhero alternatives. The Shadow has chosen to throw his life away for their sake time and time again, and no matter how appaling or disgusting Cass finds his deeds, even if he concedes that she's right and should be right on all accounts and that he is fundamentally a monster who has no right to judge others, he would not concede on his mission and he would make it very clear she would have to put him down violently to stop him from protecting others this way, and death has not stopped him before.

And to be upfront in case there's anyone who doubts it, Cass would kick The Shadow's ass, if they had to fight. She is the strongest fighter in the DCU, she lives and breathes fighting and combat in a way no one else does. And The Shadow's not one of those characters who is supposed to be invincible and the best at everything all the time always, he can and does lose fights and scrapes to people far less adept at it than Cass. He's a great fighter, obviously, he hauls bigger men than him through doors and was disabling people with Vulcan neck pinches decades before Spock, and he would definitely have an edge in other areas, but he's out of his league here. Frankly, I don't see The Shadow raising a finger against Cass unless she's been brainwashed into killing people by bad writing. Not because she's a woman, that doesn't really stop him from dealing with evil. But because, for one, she's practically a child compared to him age-wise. Two, he'd obviously know beforehand of her capabilities and how futile it would be to fight or even provoke her. And three, the Shadow's whole thing is knowing. The Shadow Knows and all that. Knowing comes with understanding.

He'd understand very quickly that there is no way someone this young could grow so quickly into the world's greatest fighter without horrific treatment that no one should ever be subjected to. He'd see the movements too practiced and quick, the self-control, the strength and speed far beyond even the trained warriors he's seen, the places where she's been scarred and is good at covering it up. Assuming he doesn't already know about her life story, any meeting between the two would lead to him very quickly figuring out that there's something much deeper about her opposition to killing than just moral reservations, something deeper than Bruce's own gun trauma.

Denny O'Neil's 2nd Batman and Shadow story was about The Shadow secretly helping Bruce overcome gun trauma, and Bruce rejecting The Shadow's intentions to hand him a gun. And to make it clear, people tend to assume that The Shadow only helps people for utilitarian reasons, which is not true as I've tried to demonstrate many times now. I don't want to convey that he would want to help Cass overcome her trauma just so she could be more efficient or something, absolutely no, he'd help her because he helps people in any way he can. I think a story with The Shadow and Cass might involve a similar premise, The Shadow understanding that she has been traumatized very deeply by death and refuses to accept it on any terms, trying to help her overcome it, only to learn that she does not want to "learn" anything she doesn't already know, that she has weaponized her trauma into a source of strength, and wishes nothing more than to help others with it.

And here's where we get to the part that allows the two to be on less antagonistic terms, because one thing that also very strongly defines Cass, at least the Cass I like reading most, is her stubborn, almost desperate need to believe in the best of people, that people can and will change for the better. Like The Shadow, her strength too is knowing, it's perception, the things that she knows about people that words cannot convey. Just as there are many things The Shadow would grow to understand about her that others would not, there would be many things that The Shadow would not be able to conceal from her. Things that no one but her would figure out. Things that, despite her age and lack of experience compared to him, he would have to defer to her knowledge on, which reverses the usual dynamic The Shadow has with people. And perhaps one aspect of that reversal, it's that maybe it's she who winds up secretly manipulating The Shadow into overcoming a deeper issue.

Cass's perspective on killing is shaped not just through trauma, but from a painfully intimate understanding of not just what happens to someone at the time of death, but the cost of murder upon the human soul, the ways it warps people into things they never should have been. Killing is a deeply, deeply serious matter, much more so than fiction seems ever willing to go into. Of course we suspend disbelief for fiction, there's nothing wrong with that, but if a story starts asking questions, starts poking holes into fantasies, they should not be disregarded.

And so it begs a question: How has it affected The Shadow? Is he really as remorseless as he appears to be? Is the fact that he's only killing evil people really of that much use? What's the cost of living as someone who has to know so much about so much evil in so many hearts? Knowledge never comes without price, and knowing evil is his tagline. When he enlists Harry Vincent, he makes it very clear that he has lost lives as he has saved them. From when is that regret coming from? What lives did he lose then? Is he saving people by damning his soul or merely prolonging the inevitable by piling corpses on another end of the scale?

If there's a character that could meaningfully start bringing these questions forth, who could ever truly get The Shadow to stop and reveal things to the audience he never would otherwise, maybe Cass could be that character. A girl who was raised to be a monster, who is treated as a monster and an aberration in-universe (and even outside of it), and turned that into a strength she uses to help others, who cares about everyone and refuses to let others be dehumanized as she was. Who better to know what lurks in the Shadow's heart?

Sometimes when I get an ask, I bullshit my way through infodump walls of text until I can structure it into something vaguely resembling a point. And sometimes, and I know it sounds crazy, but sometimes I get a very, very clear word on my mind related to it before I start writing, that almost seems to be a beacon pointing where I need to get to, and I work my way into getting there. Once you sent me an ask about crossing over The Shadow with Cassandra Cain, the word that came to mind the very second was Language.

It's an interesting relation the two have with language. Language is of course a very substantial part of Cass's character, who does not process language and linguistic development the way most people do, and instead reads body language to the point of superpower. Many stories revolve around Cass's relation to the concept of language, the help she may require from others in getting around things beyond her upbringing, and ways in which she has mastered beyond anyone's scope. Though she is mute, language is her power, what makes her what she is, and she is someone that Batman freely admits could kick his ass if she ever felt like it.

For The Shadow, language is also his power. He speaks all languages and connects allies all over the world, he is an expert ventriloquist, he is able to project his voice beyond what's physically possible, he can imitate voices perfectly to the point of being able to conduct group conversations single-handedly well enough to fool even the people whose voices he's imitating, much of his presence and terror and manipulation are done through his voice, arguably the very reason he exists in the first place is entirely because a radio actor's voice performance was so good and captivating that it tricked people into thinking the character was a real star and not just a glorified narrator. The man you cannot see, but only hear, the perfect hero for radio. And then of course the laugh, which I have a whole separate post on and which, in many ways, acts as a substitute for language in the novels. He uses the laugh so often as a substitute for statements or words, even to himself, that it's pretty much his own personal language. And language is at the core of how he deals with people, as he knows the right language to use to manipulate and move and help them. He knows what to promise, what to reveal, what to omit. He knows what to say, how to say it, when to say it. Language is the strings by which he puppeteers the world around him (and he can talk to animals, at least of one kind).

The Shadow and Cassandra Cain have mastered two different types of Language as throughly as anyone can possibly master them. The Shadow can talk a group of hardened criminals into killing themselves, Cassandra can punch a heart into stopping without killing it. The Shadow echoes his voice "through everywhere and nowhere at once" to whip crowds of thugs into frenzies, Cassandra outraces missiles and was tanking bullets as a child. The Shadow can lie and usurp lives so masterfully to fool even the families of those he's passing off as, Cassandra is a living lie detector who gleams inner conversations from miniscule reactions. The Shadow can speak every language known, Cassandra is the greatest master of the world's most universal language other than music. The two are supposedly human, but every now and then, something comes along to call that into question because of the things they can achieve. They cannot hide secrets from each other the way they do to everyone else. They are driven by a deep desire to help others, to make something out of the circumstances of their lives. To weaponize that which dictates they should be evil and monstrous into a relentless force of good.

Language is the root of understanding. And if nothing else, as impossible as a conciliation of their approaches to crimefighting may be, I think there could be an unique understanding between the two. Perhaps, and this is a bit crazier a concept but one that seems to be where I might have been heading towards all along, even Cassandra Cain finding a calling away from the frayed dynamics of the Batfamily, away from the Bat's looming presence, to become The Shadow's successor, swearing to uphold a mission of justice through non-lethal tactics while he stays on the backseat guiding her. If The Shadow could trust the safety of his agents and the protection of the innocent at the hands of someone as capable and selfless and good-natured as Cassandra, I think he'd be all too happy to be able to trust someone in such a manner, to no longer be the Master of Darkness, but instead to serve the next generation that's weaponized darkness without submerging in it. To achieve, and perhaps return, to his strongest, highest self: A disembodied voice heard, but not seen. Once again the narrator, not the star.

It's a concept I've thought about very extensively for the years I've been a Shadow fan, but now it occurs to me that, if I had to appoint a successor of The Shadow, someone who could take up the mission but shine on their own right, even improve it with the right guidance and circumstances, it would be Cassandra Cain. The Orphan, The Shadow of the Batgirl. Daughter of the greatest assassins, meant to be the world's most lethal murderer, instead pivoted to being one of it's greatest heroes, but never allowed to shine as she should. But in the darker, less restrictive and wilder world of pulp heroes, in The Shadow's world, a beacon would shine all the harder. Perfect strengths attached to perfect opposites, joined together for a greater good, unstoppable after together having weaponized that which most take for granted: the power of language to move worlds.

#replies tag #pulp heroes #comic books #the shadow #cassandra cain #batgirl #i always had a feeling that a successor to the shadow should not be modeled on batman but someone within that range #i never quite found a character i would be happy with taking that role or a similar role #aw shit i just talked myself into a new favorite character #that just so happens to be another character brimming with potential that's denied them by corporate overlords #who could have seen that coming

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killianmesmalls · 3 years ago

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On your comments about Jack: ye-es, in the sense that Jack is a character who definitely deserved better than he was treated by the characters. The way Dean especially treats him reflects very badly on Dean, no question. But, speaking as a viewer, I think the perspective needs to shift a little bit.

To me, Jack is Dawn from Buffy, or Scrappy Doo. He’s an (in my opinion) irritating kid who is introduced out of nowhere to be both super vulnerable and super OP, and the jeopardy is centered around him in a way that has nothing to do with his actual character or relationships. He’s mostly around to be cute and to solve or create problems — he never has any firm character arcs or goals of his own, nor any deeper purpose in the meta narrative. In this way, he’s a miss for SPN, which focuses heavily on conflicts as metaphors for real life.

Mary fits so much better in that framework, and introducing her as a developed, flawed person works really well with the narrative. It is easy for us to care about Mary, both as the dead perfect mother on the pedestal and as the flawed, human woman who could not live up to her sons’ expectations. That connection is built into the core of SPN, and was developed over years, even before she was a character. When she was added, she was given depth and nuance organically, and treated as a flawed, complex character rather than as a plot device or a contrivance. She was given a voice and independence, and became a powerful metaphor for developing new understandings of our parents in adulthood, as well as an interesting and well-rounded character. You care that she’s dead, not just because Sam and Dean are sad, but for the loss of her development and the potential she offered. So, in that sense, I think a lot of people were frustrated that she died essentially fridged for a second time, and especially in service of the arc of a weaker character.

And like, you’re right, no one can figure out if Jack is a toddler or a teenager. He’s both and he’s neither, because he’s never anything consistently and his character arc is always “whatever the plot needs it to be.” Every episode is different. Is he Dean’s sunny opportunity to be a parent and make up for his dad’s shitty parenting? Yes! Is he also Dean’s worst failure and a reminder that he has done many horrible things, including to “innocent” children? Yes! Is he Cas’s child? Yes! Is he Dean’s child? Yes! But also, no! Is he Sam’s child? Yes! Is he a lonely teenager who does terrible things? Yes! Is he a totally innocent little lamb who doesn’t get why what he is doing is wrong? Yes! Is he the most powerful being in the universe? Yes! Does he need everyone to take care of him? Yes! Is he just along for the ride? Yes! Is he responsible for his actions? Kinda??? Sometimes??? What is he???

Mary as a character is narratively cohesive and fleshed-out. Jack is a mishmash of confusing whatever’s that all add up to a frustrating plot device with no consistent traits to latch on to. Everything that fans like about him (cute outfits, gender play, well-developed parental bonds with the characters) is fanon. So, yes, the narrative prioritizes Mary. Many fans prioritize Mary, at least enough that Dean’s most heinous acts barely register. To the narrative (not to Cas, which is a totally different situation), Jack is only barely more of a character than Emma Winchester, who Sam killed without uproar seasons earlier. He’s been around longer, but he’s equally not really real.

I debated on responding to this because, to tell the truth, I think we fundamentally disagree on a number of subjects and, as they say, true insanity is arguing with anyone on the internet. However, you spent a lot of time on the above and I feel it's only fair to say my thoughts, even if I don't believe it will sway you any more than what you said changed my opinions.

I'm assuming this was in response to this post regarding how Jack's accidental killing of Mary was treated so severely by the brothers, particularly Dean, because it was Mary and, had it been a random character like the security guard in 13x06, it would have been treated far differently. However, then the argument becomes less about the reaction of the Winchester brothers to this incident and more the value of Jack or Mary to the audience.

I believe we need to first admit that both characters are inherently archetypes—Mary as the Madonna character initially then, later, as a metaphor for how imperfect and truly human our parents are compared to the idol we have as children, and Jack as the overpowered child who is a Jesus allegory by the end. Both have a function within the story to serve the Winchester brothers, through whose lens and with whose biases we are meant to view the show's events. We also need to admit that the writers didn't think more than a season ahead for either character, especially since it wasn't initially supposed to be Mary that came back at the end of season 11 but John, and they only wrote enough for Jack in season 13 to gauge whether or not the audience would want him to continue on or if he needed to be killed off by the end of the season. Now, I know we curate our own experiences online which leads to us being in our own fandom echo chambers, however it is important to note that the character was immediately successful enough with the general audience that, after his first episode or two, he was basically guaranteed a longer future on the show.

I have to admit, I’m not entirely sure why the perspective of how his character is processed by some audience members versus others has any bearing on the argument that he deserved to be treated better overall by the other characters especially when taking their own previous actions in mind. I’m not going to tell you that your opinion is wrong regarding your feelings for Jack. It’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it, it harms no one to have it and express it. My feelings on Jack are clearly very different from your own, but this is really just two different people who processed a fictional person in different ways. I personally believe he has a purpose in the Winchesters’ story, including Castiel’s, as he reflects certain aspects of all of them, gives them a way to explore their own histories through a different perspective, and changes the overall dynamic of Team Free Will from “soldiers in arms” to a family (Misha’s words). In the beginning he allows Sam to work through his past as the “freak” and powerful, dangerous boy wonder destined to bring hell on earth. With Dean, his presence lets Dean work through his issues with John and asks whether he will let history repeat itself or if he’ll work to break the cycle. Regarding Cas, in my opinion he helps the angel reach his “final form” of a father, member of a family, lover and protector of humanity, rebellious son, and the true show of free will.

From strictly the story, he has several arcs that work within themes explored in Supernatural, such as the argument of nature versus nurture, the question of what we’re willing to give up in order to protect something or someone else and how ends justify the means, and the struggle between feeling helpless and powerless versus the corruptive nature of having too much power and the dangerous lack of a moral compass. His goals are mentioned and on display throughout his stint on the show, ones that are truly relatable to some viewers: the strong desire to belong—the need for family and what you’ll do to find and keep it.

With Mary, we first need to establish whether the two versions of her were a writing flaw due to the constant change in who was dictating her story and her relationship to the boys, which goes against the idea that her characterization was cohesive and fleshed-out but, rather, put together when needed for convenience, or if they both exist because, as stated above, we are seeing the show primarily through the biased lens of the Winchester brothers and come to face facts about the true Mary as they do. Like I said in my previous post, I don’t dislike Mary and I don’t blame her for her death (either one). However, I do have a hard time seeing her as a more nuanced, fleshed-out character than Jack. True, a lot of her problems are more adult in nature considering she has to struggle with losing her sons’ formative years and meeting them as whole adults she knows almost nothing about, all because of a choice she made before they were born.

However, her personal struggles being more “mature” in nature (as they center primarily on parental battles) doesn’t necessarily mean her story has layers and Jack’s does not. They are entirely different but sometimes interconnected in a way that adds to both of their arcs, like Mary taking Jack on as an adoptive son which gives her the moments of parenting she lost with Sam and Dean, and Jack having Mary as a parental figure who understands and supports him gives him that sense of belonging he had just been struggling with to the point of running away while he is also given the chance to show “even monsters can do good”.

I’d also argue that Jack being many ages at once isn’t poor writing so much as a metaphor for how, even if you’re forced to grow up fast, that doesn’t mean you’re a fully equipped adult. I don’t want to speak for anyone else, but I believe Jack simultaneously taking a lot of responsibility and constantly trying to prove to others he’s useful while having childish moments is relatable to some who were forced to play an adult role at a young age. He proves a number of times that he doesn’t need everyone to take care of him, but he also has limited life experience and, as such, will make some mistakes while he’s also being a valuable member of the group. Jack constantly exists on a fine line in multiple respects. Some may see that as a writing flaw but it is who the character was conceived to be: the balance between nature or nurture, between good and evil, between savior and devil.

Now, I was also frustrated Mary was “fridged” for a second time. It really provided no other purpose than to give the brothers more man pain to further the plot along. However, this can exist while also acknowledging that the way it happened and the subsequent fallout for Jack was also unnecessary and a sign of blatant hypocrisy from Dean, primarily, and Sam.

And, yes, Jack can be different things at once because, I mean, can’t we all? If Mary can be both the perfect mother and the flawed, independent, distant parent, can’t Jack be the sweet kid who helps his father-figures process their own feelings on fatherhood while also being a lost young-adult forcing them to face their failures? Both characters contain multitudes because, I mean, we all do.

I can provide articles or posts on Jack’s characterization and popularity along with Mary’s if needed, but for now I think this is a long enough ramble on my thoughts and feelings. I’m happy to discuss more, my messenger is always open for (polite) discussion. Until then, I’m going to leave it at we maybe agree to disagree.

#long post #long ask #so long answer #guys it's 1 am #i hope this made sense #watch me read this after sleep and register things i wish i said #oh well #jack kline #mary winchester #spn #supernatural #spn critical #supernatural critical #kinda?#eh just in case #spn meta #supernatural meta #jack meta

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heraldofzaun · 3 years ago

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This is my “Viktor has never been a stereotypical evil villain, you guys are just mean” post.

Hi. Well. That says it all, really, but I guess I should elaborate. I think that Viktor has always been a victim of society [cue Joker meme], it’s just that what society has shifted over the course of his lore update.

With new lore, it’s very clearly Piltover casting him out for his (in my opinion, pretty unethical from the get-go) ideas on free will/worker safety/etc. and that subsequently making him worse. But with his previous lore - what I run off of on this blog - I’ve seen a lot of commentary about how he’s always just been “evil”, or that his motivations weren’t defined, etc. And while I can agree that his old lore certainly has less of a word count (5x less, actually) and doesn’t make his motives crystal-clear, it’s just not true that his original incarnation was just a villainous scientist. (Nor is it true that he was perceived as one by his old fans!) It takes a little bit of looking at Blitzcrank’s lore, and the Journal of Justice (hey, remember that?) to see, but it’s there... So, here goes. I’m sorry for how long this ended up being (2k words!) - it ended up touching on a lot more than just Viktor.

Viktor’s always been stolen from. (Except for Blitzcrank’s newest lores, which contradict Viktor’s new lore, which... That’s a topic for another time.) It’s always been Professor Stanwick Pididly (now Professor Stanwick) who’s done the stealing - originally, he was a professor at Zaun’s “prestigious College of Techmaturgy”. In new lore, he’s a professor at an unnamed academy in Piltover. I think the best way to track the new/old changes is bullet-points, rather than writing this all out. Tumblr doesn’t allow T-charts, sadly.

Professor Pididly in old lore:

Zaunite professor.

Stole Blitzcrank (well, the accolades for developing Blitz’s sentience) from Viktor and Viktor’s doctoral team. (While this is headcanon, I’ve always assumed that Stanwick was Viktor’s (and Viktor’s team’s) doctoral advisor. I can’t quite imagine how else he’d pull off stealing a group project like that.) Viktor subsequently withdrew from the college and “barricaded himself in his private laboratory”. (Which is his house in my personal take, because really - what sort of doctoral student can afford a lab?)

Blitzcrank’s case reached Zaun’s legal system, resulting in a “legal maelstrom” (Blitz’s original lore) that ended with Stanwick presumably being legally declared Blitzcrank’s creator.

Blitzcrank’s lore states that “most now know the truth” in regards to who his creator is. This is important for later, so stick that in your back pocket.

Pididly is referred to as “Professor Pididly” in JoJ issues 3, 18, and 23, which are given the dates of August of 20CLE, March of 21 CLE, and June of 21 CLE.

Side note: According to Orianna’s judgment, which is dated May of 21 CLE - stay with me here, it’ll make sense - Blitzcrank entered the League “years before”. As League at this time was mostly running in time with the real world, this makes sense - Blitzcrank was a 2009 champion and Orianna was released in 2011. Judgments seem to be dated to a few days before a champion’s release, in order to tie with the lore - one had to be “Judged” before made a champion... but I’m rambling. Anyways, years before, back pocket.

Is referred to as “Chairman Pididly” in JoJ issue 27, dated August of 21 CLE. “Chairman” seems to be a title given to those in political power in Zaun. Another example is Chairman Magnus Dunderson, Zaun’s “Chief Executive” (issue 5). (I could’ve sworn that there is canonically a “Board of Executives” in old lore Zaun, but scrubbing through the JoJ on the wiki hasn’t turned it up - just Blitzcrank’s lore mentioning the “Council of Zaun”. Maybe it was fanon? Anyways.) Back pocket!

Also stole some work from Viktor in order to revive Urgot. Urgot’s revival was reported on in issue 3 of the JoJ, and the confirmation that it was from Viktor’s work is in Viktor’s original lore.

Professor Stanwick (Pididly? I feel like they ditched his last name because it was “too silly”, also because Stanwick sounds British-adjacent anyways and that’s Piltover’s “thing” - but anyways) in new lore:

Piltovian professor.

Stole Blitzcrank from Viktor alone, who made the robot to help clean up a specific chemical spill. Viktor went to Zaun for a few weeks and came back to find that Stanwick had “held a symposium on Blitzcrank and presented Viktor's research as his own”. Viktor subsequently continued on his studies, culminating with him later being expelled for “violating basic human dignity”. Viktor returns to a laboratory that he had in Zaun.

Blitzcrank’s case is solely a university matter. Viktor petitions Jayce to help support his claim, but Jayce is Jayce and doesn’t help out. The “matter [is] decided in Professor Stanwick’s favor”.

Blitzcrank’s lore doesn’t really say anything about if people know that Viktor made him (them, technically, but Riot doesn’t get to make the robot non-binary), but I guess it’s implied in the 3rd iteration? (That would be the first new one, after the IoW retcon making most champions’ 2nd lores being the same lore with any reference to the titular League of Legends removed.) He works with Viktor in that one. It doesn’t fit with Viktor’s updated lore at all, actually, because it mentions Stanwick absolutely zero times. (A post for another day...)

Has nothing to do with Urgot, since Urgot’s different now.

So, the general plot of “professor rips off a student” is there, it’s just got an added layer of “professor rips off a foreign/out-group student” in new lore to tie into the overarching idea of Piltover exploiting Zaun. (Is Zaun considered foreign? Yes? No? It’s sort of textually implied sometimes to be another city, but can it actually be when it’s physically underneath Piltover? Is the metaphor in new lore a class thing, then? Is it both? Am I supposed to take Viktor’s Russian accent into account when reading this text? I don’t know.) Anyways, so far so... same, in the broad strokes. Unless Viktor’s villainy in old lore is specifically because someone from his city ripped him off, I don’t know how you can compare new/old lore and say that old painted him as a villain.

But what about the everything else I put there? We’re getting there - that’s part of Viktor’s in-universe stuff. I’m taking a quick detour out of universe, to Jayce’s very first lore...

Which had Viktor stealing a techmaturgical device from Jayce. While I can’t cite this, sadly - thank you, Riot deleting the old forums and me not having the patience to look through archives at the moment - there was a backlash around this on the forums. Why would Viktor, a character who’d been stolen from, steal in turn? So Jayce’s second lore, the one that most people were familiar with before the new lore update, was made. Now Viktor stole a crystal after trying to partner with Jayce, Jayce was less well-established as an inventor, he had a bit more character... All good things. (Also, this is probably where the new lore direction of them being former college colleagues come from.)

Also, as an aside: this is the first use I can see of crystals specifically being described as arcane power sources... The only other discussion of magical crystals was the Brackern... which was then merged into magical crystals having to be from the Brackern... Which means that...

But anyways! Clearly Viktor fans didn’t see him as a villain in 2012, or at least not one that would victimize others in the same way that he’d been hurt. They made such a fuss about it that Jayce’s lore was changed to paint Viktor more sympathetically! (When’s the last time that there’s been that much backl- oh. It’s Seraphine again. Anyways.) So, again, Viktor’s perception as an evil scientist mostly seems to have come from people who weren’t really familiar with his lore. So... case closed?

Except that I also want to talk about in-universe things! Everything that I told you to put in your back pocket! Because this post is already over a thousand words and I have thrown myself firmly into this vortex.

Viktor’s victimization by society [Joker meme] is actually probably worse in old lore, which is a fact that I think has been pretty overlooked. While new lore Viktor gets kicked back down to Zaun and gets his work stolen in academia - with Stanwick presumably never being questioned on whether or not he made Blitzcrank, because there’s that whole “Zaunites are bad” thread that is both in and out of universe... Old lore Viktor sure does get it worse, although I admit that this requires some interpretation of canon. His thing with Blitzcrank was, again, a “legal maelstrom” - and with Blitzcrank being considered a Zaunite celebrity before this court case, it seems relatively easy/logical to infer that this maelstrom was a very public case.

So all of Zaun gets to see Viktor crash and burn in court. I’d say that’s a bit worse than just academia seeing it, as is the case in new lore.

And then there’s Blitzcrank’s lore flat-out saying that “most now know the truth” about who made him. (While this lore does predate Viktor’s existence - isn’t it odd to think about a Blitzcrank made by a faceless team of generic doctoral students, rather than Viktor... and a faceless team of generic doctoral students? - I see no reason not to take it as canonical for Viktor’s original lore. There’d been minor lore touchups before, so if Riot wanted Viktor’s creation of Blitzcrank to be an unknown... they could have edited Blitzcrank’s lore.) But Viktor’s still on the fringes, and nothing in his lore (which, again, was written years after Blitzcrank’s) seems to acknowledge that by the time he enters the League we have confirmation, date-wise, that it’s been years since the truth came out. (Orianna Judgment, etc.) That’s to say: people knowing that Viktor made Blitzcrank does nothing for him - he gets no apologies or anything like that.

Of course, if you take League lore as happening concurrently and nix the Judgments and the League, I guess that this is tenuous - but working within the framework of when he was released, it seems clear to me that the implication of all this lore is (whether it was intended by Riot to be read this way or not) that no one in Zaun cares that Viktor was stolen from. It’s an open secret. No one’s seeking justice for him. But it gets worse...!

So, it’s generally known that Stanwick didn’t make Blitzcrank by the time that the JoJ is running. And he’s just a professor for most of the run of that part of the lore, until... Issue 27. In which he becomes Chairman Pididly, someone who is now implied to have political power. (I have to assume he gets the position due to the political goodwill from Noxus that his revival of Urgot must have brought Zaun, but that’s just interpretation.) But! Even though most people know that Stanwick didn’t make Blitzcrank - that he stole Blitzcrank - he ends up not losing his university job (he’s still Professor Pididly for most of the JoJ, after all) but... gaining political office!

All of this is to say that Zaun is so crooked that you can have the fact that you stole from someone and ruined their life revealed... and get a promotion to government! You can shatter an idealistic man who had a “hope to better society” and make him into someone like the Machine Herald and face absolutely zero repercussions. I think that that is significantly worse than how new lore Viktor’s victimization by Piltover consisted of an academia-only dispute that left him with just some bitterness... New Viktor was, after all, kicked out of Piltovian academia for ethics violations, not for Blitzcrank.

Everything surrounding old lore Viktor is a bit harder to piece together, since you have to look through a few lores and make a few inferences, which is why I think that people don’t realize exactly how bad he had it... (That and time erasing memories, or people being new to the fandom, or people not being interested in Viktor, or...) But he had it bad, and I’m honestly disappointed that we never got to explore much of Zaun’s particular brand of corporate corruption in canon. Now they’re the perpetual underdogs, both victims and villians, and Riot isn’t quite sure how to write them beyond constant exploitation from Piltover. (Even the chem-barons have taken somewhat of a backseat lately in new lore, from what I’ve seen - Piltover seems to be the primary cause of Zaun’s ills, because the combined region is now an upper city/lower city metaphor about class. The chem-barons just seem to be written as a result of Piltover’s ignoring of Zaun - because Zaun seems to be more of an undercity than a sovereign city or state, but that varies depending on whatever piece of lore you’re reading and... Another post, another time.)

So. TL;DR: Viktor’s always been a character who was victimized by a city, be it Zaun or Piltover. Viktor’s always been a character more complex than just a maniacal villain, although it takes more work to see that in his old lore as compared to his new. (His new pretty much screams “we are trying to make him and Jayce morally grey”, after all.) This victimization is arguably worse in old lore, as it’s implied that he went through a very public legal case that ended with Stanwick taking credit for Blitzcrank. In addition to that, Stanwick’s subsequent shift to politics implies that Zaun is so corrupt that most everyone knowing that he’s a thief isn’t an issue at all. He’s untouchable.

Viktor’s always been the result of an idealistic man being crushed by a society that doesn’t care for him and his dreams. That’s nothing new.

#headcanons | beneath the mask #worldbuilding | a smog shrouded city #//lightly seasoned with 'i have my qualms about new lore' seasoning.#//all quotes are from respective lores. i am not fully citing them because if i use apa format for a league meta post i'll simply expire.#//oh also fun fact ionians are referred to as 'peaceniks' by zaunites in that same JoJ issue i pulled the dunderson info from.#//which is cool because that's somewhat canon info (other than zaun being german for fence and some other vague name choices) that...#//zaun was probably intended to be somewhat eastern european flavored from the getgo. so. hc validation.#//admittedly the nik suffix as it is used there is an english variant borrowed from russian/yiddish so... you could argue against me i guess #//but i think that's a much further stretch than my interpretation. anyways i've rambled more than enough.#//you can tell where i started getting super conversational here + when i stopped caring about if i stuck to 'stanwick' or 'pididly'

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hopeswriting · 3 years ago

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I meant to do a post about my thoughts on the Daily Life Arc now that I finished rereading it, but I can't seem to find the time and it's been a while now, and if I keep it up I'll forget what my thoughts are to begin with lol, so here's the long story short:

I know it's a long arc, as in it starts being boring and more or less unbearable past some point, because the "gag of the chapter" format only takes you so far, and not actually very far if Amano's humor doesn't work on you much, if at all. I don't think it's an arc you can reread right away/soon either, lest you feel that one flaw even faster.

And I felt it too, starting with the fourty-something chapters I felt like it was dragging on too much, though to be fair that probably had to do too with the fact I knew things much more interesting were coming after that.

Still, all that said, like, it's an enjoyable arc. Amano's humor happens to work on me, and she does it really well, and I liked reading the arc. There are some chapters where you're really asking yourself why they were written for lol, but even then you read it for the characters, and it somehow keeps you going.

And like, even though I think Amano could have seen the fact the comedy was going to turn repetitive and thus boring at some point, and try to diversify it or something, it's just how comedy/humor/gags works? Some jokes land and some doesn't, but for me at least a lot more of them worked than not.

The DLA is a good enough arc is what I'm saying.

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On than note and on the contrary, of course it's fine if you think it's a bad arc, to each their opinion, but personally I really don't agree it's an unnecessary one.

I'm saying this because apparently it's not uncommon to advice new fans to skip the arc and directly start with the Kokuyo one? (Or so I learned on TV Tropes anyway, this might or might not be still relevent/accurate.)

Now don't get me wrong, the DLA does fail to hook the readers to the story for the reasons stated above, I agree with that, but it literally introduces the main character? And all the other characters, and gets us to know them, and establishes the dynamics between them and why they're the way they are, and, though only in a more or less superficial manner (and more than less) by design of the arc's purpose (not being deep in any way lol), it still gives us an insight into the characters and why they're the way they are. A glimpse into the core of their personality, the "stakes" of their characters, the flaws they have to overcome.

And all that in the context of their daily life, so if you skip it to go directly to the arc that challenges them, you can't appreciate fully how they rise to the challenge, how it shows their growth or reasserts their core values. You can't know how much or what it means, for example, off the top of my head, to have Yamamoto sacrifice his arm to beat Ken, when only a year ago he tried to kill himself over his broken arm. Or Hibari losing against Mukuro, thus telling us how much of a real threat he was. Or Tsuna screaming at Lancia for having hurt his friends, anger on his face, clearly despite himself, that Dame-Tsuna.

All these just wouldn't hit you the same, and it'd be such a shame? I mean I guess the ones who start with the Kokuyo arc go back to read the DLA, or you could compromise like the anime did by splitting the DLA between more serious arcs, but like I said I personally don't find the DLA that bad, so I still wouldn't advice it lol.

Even if, I suppose, it'd mean they might give up on the manga somewhere through the DLA, but like? Some mangas just don't speak to you, and that's fine, and it'd be a little of a shame from my POV as a KHR fan, but still, no big deal.

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I'm still very impressed with how smoothly Amano went from a gag manga to a shonen one, and how she made it so the DLA still fits with the rest. I mean the sudden change in tone/stakes/etc is jarring, sure, but it's all based on stuff she introduced in the DLA, which she presumably came up with with no intention to ever make it something deeper/more meaningful.

It's easy to believe the foreshadowing, and generally speaking the worldbuilding was planned all along, which, again, probably not, and like? Super impressive.

(Though once more don't get me wrong, there are inconsistencies/plot holes in Amano's plotlines and worldbuilding, but not, like, at their seams, if I can say it like that? It's more often in the details, and it's fairly easy to fill in the blanks ourselves.)

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Finally it was a lot of fun to rediscover the characters in a new light, and a bit of a disbelieving surprise tbh.

For context before I started my reread of the manga, all this time I was going with the time I read/watched it years ago plus the times I skimmed it, but mostly by all the fanon I was consuming. And it's not to say fanon is wrong per se, but it latched on one to three character's traits, or slapped an easy character archetype on them easy to "relate" to within, and apparently never looked back lol. And also often dialed up those traits (good or bad) in a very noticeable manner.

What I'm saying is, fanon is, in fact, wrong sometimes zldnslsz, and the characters are much more nuanced even in the DLA! (Which still leaves us at a more or less superficial level, because, you know lol, but still!)

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To name the ones that stood out to me the most:

Nana isn't abused by Iemitsu, nor is she unhappy in her marriage despite Iemitsu being an absent husband (which is not relevent in the context of the DLA, but still, you can tell). She isn't an abusive mother to Tsuna either, and she is literally never an airhead. She literally just isn't, she actually does react very normally to the crazy Reborn brings with him, but much like Yamamoto as long as no one gets hurt (or walks it off), she just brushes it off.

And she has friends she goes listen to piano recitals with, and tries to save on money by eating rests, and gets in two-way arguments with Tsuna, and raises his allowance if he gets better grades to push him to work harder, and all around is just your average mom that really didn't read as just The Mom, if you know what I mean.

She has her flaws, definitely, she's not a great mom, namely is apparently used to call Tsuna Dame-Tsuna, but she's not just that.

She takes care of him, worries over him, and seems to be the only one who hasn't given up on him yet when the story starts. She supports him (though sometimes in a tactless to hurtful way), praises him when he does well, and trusts him to watch over the kids.

She's not that bad is what I'm saying, and 100% redeemable (that is, if you think she needs to be redeemed to begin with, which I actually do think she does, calling Tsuna Dame of all things is just a really shitty thing to do.)

(Though it's interesting to note that she doesn't do it again after what happened with Kyoko iirc, even if she might very well still talk to him in a belittling way at times. I just wish Amano would have commit fully to acknowledge it and resolve it, what with already having made it Kyoko's Dying Will Regret.)

(Edit: I had forgotten but she literally forgets his birthday while preparing someone else's birthday, so I take back that she is 100% redeemable because it's being too nice. But my point still stands.)

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Haru is literally such a fun character, it makes me even more sad now to know what Amano did with her (nothing ansknslq 😭😂).

She's unhinged, has zero impulse control, does not reflect on the consequences of her lack of impulse control as Tsuna points it out, is ready and willing to throw hands at any given moment and is unapologetic of it, and is the one Amano actually calls an airhead.

The only problem she had with the mafia is that she thought Tsuna was forcing it on Reborn, and when she confirmed it was all true she literally didn't even blink at it, and immediately called herself the future Decimo's wife djosdkkd.

On that note she is literally mafia right from her first appearance, is more or less involved in almost all the mafia shenanigans, was right there with Tsuna & Co when they went to destroy the Tomaso's headquarters.

And like?? Amano could just have left it at that if she wasn't going to do anything else/more with it. Haru had so much potential, and not only Amano did nothing with it, she actually watered her down and took away all her distinct character's traits 😭.

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Hibari is so much more feral and playful than his fanon cool, overpowered, quiet badass counterpart. Which I love too, don't get me wrong, but these two sides of him don't have to be exclusive!

He talks and smiles and jokes often, and shows off and casually insults you, and licks the blood away from his lips after having beaten bloody other middle schoolers who dared to defy him (I know this happens in the Kokuyo arc, but it illustrates my point the best).

Not much more to add than that, we should just acknowledge that and put it in our works more often.

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Gokudera is a compelling character from the get go, and as far as the DLA goes, he's the most compelling character second to Tsuna. He's the only one to actually have flashbacks and a backstory. And what stood out to me the most that I don't see often in fanon, is that he's really a good friend.

Yes he has a short fuse and snaps easily and is easy to anger, but he's not always angry. And is seen having and being capable of positive exchanges outside of Tsuna (I'm thinking Yamamoto namely, who's made with Ryohei to be the one he gets angry with the most).

And yes he holds Tsuna on a pedestal and sees him through heavily tinted pink glasses, but even through that he's earnestly a good friend. And tries his best, and is hardworking and overachieving, so much so he messes up without meaning to, but he only ever has honest, straight-forward good intentions behind it all (well, maybe not always lol).

I love him a lot more now is what I'm saying.

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And Tsuna. I'm not sure I'll be able to articulate my thoughts properly, but like... he's just your average teenager. Which of course is his whole thing, and I'm saying it in a very not judgy way whatsoever, but he's often made to be at least a little more than that, namely about his bullying.

Like, it's kind of dramatised in fics? And I'm not going to elaborate on that more because it might come out wrong and I don't want that, but it's just, like—canonically he is just bullied, simple as that. Like many other teenagers are.

And it's all in a "chill" way (for unfortunate lack of a better word, I don't mean to trivialize bullying at all, it's wrong and unfair and never deserved or okay, just so we're clear), and by the time the story starts Tsuna is used to it and has given up fighting against it, and actually finds refuge and a twisted comfort in embracing his Dame-Tsuna's monicker, because at least he's not gonna hit rock bottom deeper than that if he does.

And I'm not actually going anywhere with this, it's just? It hit me how differently canon and fanon portray his bullying.

Back on the note of him being a (below) average teenager, Tsuna is not an uwu pure cinnamon roll too good for this world.

He's literally so quick to judge and criticise, whether in his head or out loud when he knows more the person (namely Haru lol, poor girl), it was actually a bit of a shock tbh lol. He snaps easily, and is lazy, does not want to try even one bit, and is happy to run away from his responsibilities whenever he can.

And not only I'm not saying that in a judgy way this time either, but I'm actually saying it in a good way. He really felt like your average middle schooler, and it was so refreshing to see. That, plus the fact the narrative never holds it against him, let alone punishes him for it even if he's made to grow out of these traits, and it's literally part of his character arc, is kind of unique for the shonen genre (maybe, I'm not exactly a specialist of shonen mangas lol).

And I can see why you'd want to change it in fics, but personally I think it really makes his character's arc even more meaningful.

#katekyo hitman reborn #khr #khr text post #daily life arc #i said long story short but this is actually the long story 😭#lile a lot of things i just really need to start to keep going uh sbdlsnks #if the read more doesn't work i'll add it on desktop as soon as i get my hands on a computer #in the meantime sorry about that #khr reread

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dystopiandilfs · 4 years ago

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Explaining the terms Canon, Non-Canon Lore and Headcanon for people who confuse them including various media examples. I tried to be simple but I know that won't happen so I'll put a TLDR at the end.

The biggest and most confusing thing I'm going to reference is Tales From The SMP as it technically fits into 3/4 categories. I will also use other DreamSMP events that are less complicated.

DISCLAIMER: The members of DreamSMP have confused lore and canon which is okay since they're essentially the same thing but canon would be the correct term. The "Lore" streams should be the "Canon" streams but it's too late to change now. But most DreamSMP things border on being either both Canon and Lore or Non Canon and Headcanon. Which is confusing.

Also: You can have something be character canon but not storyline canon, character lore but not overall lore etc but I'm not going to go onto that because it's a whole different topic. This is going to be super hard to explain as the DreamSMP contains many different POV's which isn't how most media's work. For example books tend to be from one perspective and shows are mostly one character telling the storyline and you discover things the same time they do which isn't how DreamSMP works but that's also another whole topic.

Canon- Material that is officially part of a story and is referenced and confirmed by characters meaning it is both acknowledged and recognised as an something that happened. Canon are all created by the author or creator essentially canon is the original work.

Lore- Is any and all stories whether actual history or myths that take place in original timeline. Not alternate universes or different realities. They're stories that characters already know.

Non-Canon- If something isn't canon it is basically something that might be said by a character but it only ever mentioned once mostly as an offhand comment and isn't recognised as being part of the official timeline. Basically if it's not canon it didn't happen.

Headcanon or fanon- Is something that hasn't happened in the story but is essentially a viewers version. Headcanons are like alternate universe versions of characters. Most people give their favourite characters headcanon traits that they themselves have to feel represented. Headcanons are people's own versions of a character or event. They're things that are adjusted to an individual's preference.

Headcanons tend to be widely accepted and that's where most of the mix-up is between what's Canon and what's not.

Canon and Lore tend to get mixed up as they're very similar.

Headcanons tend to be created by non canon ideas and are expansions of off handed non canon things.

For example: Tales of The SMP is non canon. It contains canonical events (The Egg) but isn't referenced in canon events or by main characters making it not canon. The egg appearing in TFTSMP is Egg Lore. Karl in the main DreamSMP timeline hasn't once referenced a Tales story meaning that whilst it's written into his character as canon nobody else knows about it other than Karl and the viewers meaning it's a Headcanon.

This is why Tales is a widely disputed topic. However unless Dream (Other people also work but Dream is the best example to use) explicitly mentions Tales (The only way I can see it being either canon or canonical lore is if someone uses it to explain something about the egg and it's actually used to further the plot) it is considered non canon. Meaning it has no actual relevance to the DreamSMP. It's not considered lore because it has no established beginning or history. (This is why I'm very critical about all Time Travel based characters. They're very hard to make canon unless they're the main character and time travel is the main plot)

Something that is a Headcanon is that Phil destroyed his wings protecting Wilbur. However people think Phil have wings is canon as he often mentions it however unless wings are actually used or another character like Dream for example makes a reference about it (like if Dream was to offer to give Phil wings in return for Phil breaking him out of prison)

Something that is canon is Ranboo having silk touch hands. Multiple characters have referenced it as well as seen it actually happen. For now it hasn't actually added anything to canon so it's technically considered character canon/lore but that's a whole different story.

Jack Manifold losing all 3 canon lives going to hell and returning is considered character lore. Multiple characters know about it but nobody other than Jack (as of right now) know if it's real or just a story created by someone to make Jack seem more powerful Vs Ranboo's powers that people both know about and can confirm to be true which is why Ranboo's powers are canon and Jack's revival is lore. A similar example would be Sapnap being fire resistant, it's not canon or lore but it is a Headcanon as nobody in canon has referenced it and it's not a myth spread around to influence people.

TLDR: Canon is author written official events referenced and recognised by multiple characters (Ranboo having powers), Non Canon are events that are not recognised or referenced by multiple people (Tales is non canon), Lore is a storyline whether real or fake created in the original timeline that majority of characters know about. (DreamXD being the protector of the end) and Headcanon is something that doesn't actually exist and is created by fans/viewers but often get mistaken as canon because they're popular ideas (Phil having Wings)

To summarise; DreamSMP events and characteristics are almost impossible to categorise which is unfortunate as it sparks lots of useless debates depending on who's perspective you watch. For example Dream is the only main character who is solely canon, lore and Headcanon this is because we don't get anything from his perspective every other main character (member who is involved in one of the storylines) has their perspective or did an in-depth explanation/analysis of their character meaning they all fit into all 4 categories. Dream (and DreamXD) is the only member on the entire server that doesn't fit into all 4 categories. He doesn't have anything that is non canon as everything we know about his character is through someone else's eyes(lore and canon) or is created by fans and was never confirmed or denied by Dream(Headcanon)

#dreamsmp #dream smp #dreamwastaken #georgenotfound #badboyhalo #sapnap #mcyt #tubbo #karl jacobs #philza #technoblade #tommyinnit #ranboo

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heloflor · 4 years ago

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About MML season 2

So after rambling about one season 2 episode, I now want to rant a bit. So here’s a list of reasons why I find season 2 weaker than season 1. Obviously, this post is mostly me complaining about some stuff so, if you don’t want to hear about it, don’t read.

Note that this is a personal opinion and you have every right to disagree with it. Also, the points given aren’t sorted in any particular order of importance.

For those who don’t want to read the post (because you don’t have time/aren’t really interested/ can’t stay focused for too long etc) or if you only want to see certain points, here’s a list of what I will discuss here :

- Murphy’s Law seems weakened

- Dakota and Cavendish are like looney toons characters and more time is spent on them getting hurt rather than on their interactions with each other, which makes their plot boring

- Compared to most Dwampyverse couples, Zack and Melissa have no development

- Doofenshmirtz is annoying but does have his few moments

- A few jokes take too much time; in particular, “Cavendish Unleashed” makes me straight-up angry because of that

- They wanted to make a plot for Zack but it goes nowhere

- other smaller things like the lack of time spent on the school characters

Now, onto the longer version (very long post ahead) :

1. Less Murphy’s law

So in season 1, Murphy’s law was a main focus for the story, in the sense that it was pretty strong. Most episodes had stuff blowing up or getting destroyed. And often, you end up thinking that people got hurt by such mess. Take episodes like “Worked Day”, “Family Vacation”, “Murphy’s Lard”, “The Little Engine that Couldn’t” or “Milo's Halloween Scream-a-Torium”, to cite some of the most extreme cases. And yes, not every episode is like that, and some are even pretty chill when it comes to Murphy’s law like “The Race” or “The Substitute”. Also, Murphy’s law was conveniently turned off except when convenient for the story in major episodes like “Missing Milo” and “Fungus Among Us”. But overall, you really had that impression that Milo’s life was chaotic and explosive and hard to live by.

In season 2, there definitely were episodes in which Murphy’s law was strong, like for example “Freefall”, the ending of “Teacher’s Feature” and any episode with the aliens, in particular the last three episodes of the season. But for the most part, Murphy’s law mostly felt like an inconvenience rather than an actual problem. For example, you have “Walker, Runner, Screamer” in which like one problem happens or “Disco Do-Over” in which Milo very easily solves his parents’ problem. It also doesn’t help that both episodes have at least one character make a big deal out of Murphy’s law.

But aside from that, there are also episodes in which Murphy’s law doesn’t even seem to really happen. Like in “Lady Krillers”, “Spy Little Sister” (I’d argue that the lightbulb accident would have happened regardless of Milo’s presence) or even “Cake ‘splosion” in which Murphy’s law is there but overall it feels more like Milo overcoming the show’s obstacles.

So yeah, Murphy’s law is still present but at the same time it doesn’t feel as strong as the first season. And while it does give more time for Milo and co to have some character development I guess, overall it just feels kind of off. And now that I think about it, this lack of a mess in the A plot in a show that’s meant to be chaotic might be the root for my next complain.

2. Dakota and Cavendish are too cartoony

So in season 1, the B plot was my absolute favorite thing in the show. I couldn’t and still can’t get enough of these two idiots and how they play off of each other. But in season 2…let’s just say that I barely watch their plot during the first half of the season, and the reason is simple : Cavendish and Dakota are a joke in this first half. Their plot is all about them trying to get something and stupidly get hurt by it, and it just feels boring.

Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not against these two getting hurt. After all, they failed basically all their missions in season 1 and looked dumb while doing so. But the thing is : 1. In season 1, it was mostly because of Murphy’s law so it wasn’t always their fault and 2. The main thing about them in season 1 was their interactions. The most interesting thing about them has always been how they act with each other, at least in my opinion. Heck, my favorite B plot (not episode but B plot) is from “Abducting Murphy’s Law”, an episode in which all Dakota and Cavendish do is talk to each other in different places. It’s just two guys talking, and yet I absolutely love this plot.

So yeah, you don’t need to make Dakota and Cavendish be incompetent idiots for them to be great, you just need to make them interact with each other. That’s also why, out of all their “collecting trash” plots, my favorite is in “Lady Krillers”, because I love the first half with Cavendish complaining while Dakota is being baby while listening to music + their dumb argument over moving the bag and then Cavendish getting scared and Dakota immediately getting protective. This is fun ! This is cute ! This is very dumb and I like every second of it !

On the same note, I can’t stand the B plot of “Disco Do-Over”. The idea isn’t bad and the old lady is a great one-of character, but overall the plot is just urgh for me. The only thing I like is when Cavendish says that Drusselstein sounds made up (I guess Professor Time never wrote an autobiography) and Dakota starts listing made-up words, only to end up smiling at Cav while saying his name slowly in a borderline flirty way, as if he enjoyed every syllable of it. But thing is, I consider that, when shipping is the only thing I care about in an episode/plot, it means that it’s bad. And “Walker, Runner, Screamer” is in the same vein. I can’t stand the plot.

There are actually two things about these plots that I thing really pisses me off (the fact that these plots don’t have much of the duo playing off of each other doesn’t really pisses me of, it just makes the plot boring) :

First of, it makes Dakota seems completely incompetent. Yes I know he wasn’t a first-class agent and even in season 1 he wasn’t that athletic or anything but there was still the feeling that he knew what he was doing. He always managed to steal from Brick and Savannah or know where the duo was, he was able to save Cavendish hundreds of times and finally who knows what the Mississippi purchase was. So while he wasn’t the best, there was some competence. But in season 2, it’s more or less gone.

And for my second pet peeve : Cavendish’s mortality. In season 1, it was established that Cav had a hard time staying alive and could die from tons of different ways, including falling from great heights or getting sent through a wall by a horse. And while we do see him survive a giant rolling rock in “Murphy’s Lard”, Dakota still makes a comment asking if Cav is alive.

But is season 2, it seems like they completely forgot about this part of his character. The worse has to be in “Loot at This Ship” in which he somehow survives when messing with the ship. But earlier in the season, there’s also “Lady Krillers” in which he survives a bull attack three times ! Though, what really pisses me off with that isn’t just the fact that he survives for the sake of comedy; it’s Dakota. In this episode, Dakota has no problem just running away and letting Cavendish get attacked by the bull ! And it’s the same thing in “Disco Do-Over”. When Cav tries to sneak into the garden and gets attacked, Dakota just panics and runs away ! I swear the first time I saw this I was like “Excuse me ?!”. Because you’re telling me that Vinnie “sacrificing himself over and over again with no regrets for Cavendish” Dakota is now ditching Cav in situations he finds dangerous in order to save himself ???

I’m sorry but it pisses me off. It might just be me overreacting but seeing two characters whose main strength in the story was their banter now interacting less and getting hurt more, with one of them going against everything he did in the first season; this just angers me. And so when I watch season 2, I tend to skip most parts of the B plot (which makes me watch like 1 min of episode for “Lady Krillers” because the A plot is very meh. “Disco Do-Over” has an adorable A plot tho).

And last note about these plots, I didn’t mention “Field of Screams” and “Managing Murphy’s law” because I tend to forget about the first one that I find pretty meh (the entire episode, not just the B plot) and the second one has a B plot based on cringy humor and I’m not really into it, though I do really like hearing Jeremy getting more and more tired of Dakota and the hug at the end is such a cute and underrated Dakavendish moment. Also Dakota makes a dad joke near the beginning and I absolutely adore that.

I also didn’t mention “Freefall” because it’s fine. Dakota is being Dakota (and I adore this dork), we start to see Cav get genuinely angry about his job which sets the root for the second half of the season, there’s one scene in which the two are clearly very bored and for some reason it makes me laugh, and the action scene is fine (also damn Cavendish knows how to fly a plane !). But I find “Freefall” to be a good episode in general so yeah.

3. Zack and Melissa

First thing first : I have nothing against the ship itself. I’m not a big shipper when it comes to child/teens characters but I completely understand why people ship them, and I agree that they have personalities that mix well together. And honestly, this point is probably my most minor complain.

That being said, I do believe that their relationship has basically no development. Or at least, if you compare them to other couples in the Dwampyverse. Because thing is, Dwampy tend to have pretty high standards when it comes to couples. I mean, if we look at every canon couple + a few fanon (aka “here’s my need to infodump about random stuff nobody cares about”. This part will be in italics so, if you want to skip it, you can see where it ends) :

- Phineas and Isabella : since the first episode, we see that Isabella is attracted to Phineas. And throughout the entire show, these two are always willing to help the other, with Isabella always wishing to help in any way she can with the project of the day and Phineas always wanting to make the best projects when it comes to Isabella (just look at how he gets upset in her birthday episode when the finale doesn’t go according to plan). So yeah, they’re two kids in love with a very sweet friendship that you know will evolve into a relationship once they get older and understand relationships better.

- Ferb and Vanessa : Ignoring “Act your Age”, this is the usual trope of a young kid falling in love with an older person. And just like with Phina/bella, it’s made clear that Ferb likes Vanessa and is willing to do anything for her.

- Candace and Jeremy : Same kind of relationships. Candace is clearly head-over-heels for him, Jeremy often gives her presents since the beginning of the show and overall is always patient and understanding to her. It’s very sweet and it’s satisfying to see them get together and know that they will stay that way.

- Linda and Lawrence : While we don’t see much of them, it’s made clear when they’re together that they genuinely love each other. Same for their respective parents.

- Vanessa and Monty : A very organic relationship. It’s two teens who find each other attractive and, after randomly finding each other in the same place, decide to talk and learn more about each other, eventually deciding to start dating. It’s pretty sweet.

- Sara and Neal : These two are just fucking adorable ! They’re two awkward nerds in love and the episode when they get together really plays onto this and it’s the most adorable thing. And while we don’t see much of them, at the beginning of “Love Toboggan”, it’s made clear that the two have seen each other enough for their respective families to know that they like each other.

- Amanda and Milo : Another duo of cuties. The idea of a relationship between them is hinted very early, in “Smooth Opera-tor” in which we see that Milo likes her. And throughout the show, we see them getting closer as Amanda learns to accept Murphy’s law and becomes a genuine friend to Milo. We also see that Milo really likes her and is always willing to help her in any way he can.

- Brigette and Martin : Probably the most underrated characters of the show. I simply adore these two ! They’re just really wholesome people, especially Brigette. She knew full well what she was getting into when she decided to marry into the Murphy family and it’s clear that she doesn’t have a single regret. Like the Flynn-Fletcher parents, they aren’t around that much but when they do you can tell they love each other.

And for some fanon ships :

- Buford and Baljeet : Basically an enemy to friends to lover trope. They start off as bully and nerd but, the more time they spend with Phineas and co, the more Buford shows off his sensitive side and learns more to respect Baljeet’s boundaries while Baljeet learns to stand up for himself. And by the end of the show, the two are genuinely close. Heck, even in “Act Your Age”, despite the canon ships, there’s one scene in which the guys tell Phineas that “guys don’t talk about their feelings”. After they say that, there’s an awkward silence and at the end of it you can see Buford and Baljeet look at each other before looking away with a sad expression, as if they did have feelings for each other but never talked about it because of the “boys don’t talk feelings” thing (which, in real life, is complete bullshit. Let men be emotive, dammit !). But yeah, these two have a friendship that grows over the show and is sometimes teased as if something else was going on there.

- Heinz and Perry : Fun fact : when I became an adult and started getting back into the show, I couldn’t help but laugh as I started to ship it because this is such a crackship on paper ! Also, everything related to Peter the Panda, especially “Time Out” and “Lost in Danville” is fucking hilarious because of how ridiculous it is. I love the Dwampyverse ! (and I just realized that I didn’t talk about the humans/objects canon couples but given that only one person can evolve in these relationships…yeah)

But looking at the show and the books, yeah, these two are like two people thrown into an arranged marriage and having to figure everything out. Even if they start off as enemies, they eventually get accustomed to each other, to the point of being each other’s most important person. We really feel it in season 4. In a lot of ways, these two are a lot like Buford and Baljeet (which a lot of people had already pointed out).

- Candace and Vanessa : This one is mostly based on how much Candace admires Vanessa in “Night of the Living Pharmacist” and honestly, it’s pretty alright. I can definitely see why people ship it as there’s definitely some material there and there with Candace trying to impress Vanessa and look cool in front of her.

- Cavendish and Dakota : Act like an old married couple 24/7 ; often have physical contact and never react to it, showing that it’s normal to them and that they’re very comfortable with each other, almost to the point of having no notion of personal space when it comes to each other ; call each other “partners” most of the time ; have known each other for at least 10 years given Cavendish’s change in appearance from “First Impressions” to ‘now’ ; have to share a room most of the time due to their work ; are compared to Perry and Heinz, aka Dan’s favorite fan ship (or at least it seems to be) ; would die for each other and are willing to do anything to keep their relationship going, including stopping a “break up” (Dakota’s words). What else is there to say ?

So looking at all these relationships, including the fanon ones, it’s pretty clear that Dan and Swampy like to give out tons of shipping material. But Zack and Melissa ? They act like friends for most of the show. In season 1, the only episode that’s really shippy is “The Math Book” with how they play off of each other.

The saddest part with this relationship for the shippers is that in the PnF crossover, we start to get hints that they might be a couple, only for them to keep the exact same dynamic as season one up until the very last episode of season 2 in which suddenly they act like a couple most of the time. And before you point out “Escape”, it’s probably just me but the way Melissa tells Milo to hurry because “It starts to seem like a date”, followed by Zack saying “You wish” in such a neutral tone gives off the impression that they don’t want it to be a date. So yeah, by the end of the day, it feels like they only got together because 1. Disney likes straight people and 2. They’re the hero’s best friends.

Seriously, on youtube, there’s a video that’s a Zalis//sa compilation, and not only is the video only 6 minutes long, but most of these moments could come off as two friends acting like two friends. And for the video length : reminder that there’s a Milan//da video from the same person that’s 17 minutes long, Amanda being a character that appears like ten times less than Zack and Melissa; and there are also two Daka//vendish videos, both 10 minutes long each, and they barely cover like 1/3 of the episodes the duo show up in. Seriously, a fanon ship has a hundred more shipping material than a canon ship ! Honestly, Zalis//sa shippers were robbed.

I think the only other ship that has that little development (and by that I mean way less development) among major characters is the one between Baljeet and Ginger. Honestly for this ship : Ginger shows that she’s interested and it’s taken as a joke in season 1; in the bees episode, Ginger listens to Baljeet and, while Baljeet is happy that she’s listening, he’s mostly happy that someone is listening, regardless of who it is. Then we see them dance a few times in the background, including in a Halloween episode in which Buford and Baljeet were sharing a costume and, as Baljeet and Ginger start to dance, we have a shot of Buford not looking happy about this. And yet somehow they became a canon couple.

With this forced ship, I tend to accuse Disney being homophobic and refusing Buford and Baljeet to be both single at the end of the show (seriously Disney seems to be so homophobic that they allowed couples between humans and objects but refused any gay couple. At least they seem to have started to be more accepting with recent shows from what I’ve seen).

4. Heinz Doofenshmirtz

So I know it’s been talked about but it’s still a major point in this season so I have to talk about it. So : in Phineas and Ferb, Heinz is a motivated inventor who was able to make inators that worked, though his poor planning and some of his ideas often got the best of him. But overall, he was just a nice guy with a certain genius and who was trying to cope with his childhood trauma in the only ways he knew. He’s also one of the best fathers in all of animation, especially given how much baggage he has, but that’s not the topic here.

Then, when Dwampy made “The O.W.C.A. Files”, they decided to change Heinz’s personality. Suddenly, he was a complete klutz who’s can’t do anything right and just pisses people off. And when they made MML, they kept this personality trait. It also doesn’t help that quite a lot of focus is put on him, which renders him even more annoying. I won’t develop much on his flaws because, again, others already did before. Instead, since so many people already talked about what was wrong with Doof in this show, I actually want to talk about the good moments that Heinz has in MML.

So, to cite a few : First off, the PnF crossover. Yes he does mess up his time machine with orange juice but that’s like his only mistake. Overall, he’s seen to be a great inventor who quickly understands the Pistachions’ weakness after spilling juice on a plant and immediately creates a plan around it. And speaking of which, I also really like how, when he meets the group at the beginning and is told to be a hero, he asks “What do you base your assumption on ?” (not a direct quote), which really shows that yes, he’s a scientist who thinks like one.

The moments where he butts head with Cavendish are also pretty good, especially with how what he says is only the truth : he’s not Professor Time, he’s just some random inventor, and Cavendish feeling so much deception is his own fault for idolizing someone. Thinking about it, it might actually be the only moments in the show in which he’s seen as more mature than another major character.

And overall, he’s just his PnF self in this episode. Like, there’s also how he talks to Diogee and, later, when Milo puts some pressure on him by reminding him of the stakes, he goes “I’m going to go back to talk to the dog”.

As for some other good appearances : “Spy Little Sister” has Heinz show up for a very little and it really works with making him a lot like how he was in PnF (honestly the lightbulb accident seems like something he’ll do in PnF. Heck, in the first part of the episode, he reminds me of how he is in “Doof 101”, episode in which the problems are caused by the annoying bugs and not him).

“Disco Do-Over” does a clever use of the “I am a superstar” video, though Heinz is a bit obnoxious in this episode.

The season 2 finale has Heinz once again act like a scientist when he asks the Octalian about shape-shifting.

Finally, I really like the friendship between him and Dakota. The two are definitely bad for each other and that’s what makes their interactions interesting. Though, I would have loved to see some time spent on pointing out the fact that Dakota grew up seeing Heinz as a hero. And on that same note, I would have loved to see a bit more of Cavendish interacting with Heinz, especially after Heinz and Dakota became “friends” (the last episodes give off the feeling that now that they made up with their respective partner, they aren’t going to hang out with each other).

So yeah, Heinz does have his moments in which he works pretty well. But most of these moments are in episodes in which he’s a minor character. When the show starts to focus more on him, he’s just annoying and immature, which is really sad given how great he was in PnF.

5. The humor

Now it’s time to get the claws out. Seriously, this part was meant to be short but I can tell from what my brain has in mind that I’m going to give a long rant. To be honest this wasn’t even really supposed to be a big thing to point out, like I could’ve put this at the end with the other “minor complains”. But one thing pisses me off so it’s now its own part.

So to make things clear first : when I talk about the humor, I’m talking about one kind of joke that the show has done since season 1 but that feels off in season 2. I’m talking about the jokes that go on for a while, sometimes too long; especially too long in season 2.

I think a good example of a long joke made right is in “Party of Peril”, when we have to watch Elliot get attacked by a duck for like 50 seconds. It’s a joke that probably goes on for too long but let’s be honest it’s hilarious, along with creating the recurring joke of ducks hating Elliot.

In season 2, they kept trying to make these kinds of jokes there and there; but for some reason it doesn’t really work. I have two examples : the first one is in “Teacher’s Feature” in which we spend 20 seconds on Scott dancing in a cringy way while the kids comment on it. And I swear as I’m writing that I’m considering checking the length because it feels like 40 seconds, not 20, and that’s the problem. Watching the scene, they could have easily cut out 5 seconds of him dancing with music to go directly to the part where there’s no music but he keeps going. Seriously. They definitely could have made this joke shorter.

But the worst to me, the absolute worst, is in “Cavendish Unleashed”. OOOH BOY the fucking waste they did there.

So in this episode, there’s a joke that plays out 3 times, two times the same way and a third time with a slight difference. The joke is about people wanting to sign a paper to destroy then protect the forest, only to get crushed by the alien and being unable to use their hand. To put it simply, this joke is boring. It doesn’t even feel like a joke ! It’s just 15 then another 15 and then a whole 20 seconds (more or less) wasted on this shit. And I swear I also want to go check the length because I remember that when I first saw the episode, the third joke felt like it went on for two minutes. It’s not fun, it’s just boring.

But what’s the problem with that ? Simple : the ending of the episode. At the end of the episode, Cavendish talks with the main trio, learns that Milo was the abductee and then tells the teens to leave. And they just leave, asking no questions whatsoever. Like hello ???? Cavendish has been missing for days, maybe weeks ??? Dakota is desperate to find him ??? Haven’t Dakota told the kids that Cavendish was missing ??? Hadn’t they noticed during “Cast Party” and even before or after that Dakota wasn’t with Cavendish anymore ??? WHY IS NOBODY ASKING QUESTIONS ???? Why didn’t the kids go like “Oh yeah, we saw Cavendish today” to Dakota ??? Why waiting DAYS before telling him ??? Hell, in “Escape”, he talks about finding Cavendish like the kids knew ! So what the hell was that all about ?!

Seriously. Would it have been too hard to remove that dumb recurring joke and instead have an angsty scene in which Milo points out that Cavendish is considered missing, only for Cav to feel bad about it, making us feel for him, and then tell the kids that he’s doing what he believes is for the best and then ask them to keep it a secret from Dakota ? How come the only time we see Cav feel bad about leaving is in a fan animation ?

This seriously pisses me off. The whole arc about Cavendish going rogue could have been one of my favorites. We could’ve seen him struggle to live, think about what he’s doing and why, feel homesick or missing Dakota and the others. Hell, he’s been stuck alone and conscious in an ice cube for who knows how long, so why did he never take the time to reflect during that time ? And yes he was conscious. When he gets trapped, his eyes move and when he’s saved, he’s able to protect his face the very moment the ice break, showing that he was well-aware of Dakota breaking the cube.

But no. Instead, this arc spends like 30% of its screen time on Cavendish doing a Candace-like joke about trying to show the ship and 70% of the screen-time on Dakota sulking. And in the last episode, there’s a scene in which Cav complains about Octalia, only to be remembered that he can save the planet; and then he goes on a rant about how he’s going to be the hero of Octalia, showing that he didn’t learn a fucking thing from his arc.

This pisses me off. This really pisses me off. No wonder I wrote like 5 oneshots around that arc. I need to get that “Cavendish is struggling” angst juice one way or another.

And speaking of bad arcs…

6. Zack’s plot

So in the first episode of the season (not counting the crossover), the characters talk about how Zack is a coward who tries to get over his fears. Ok so first question : since when is Zack considered a coward ? I mean, he’s very cautious when it comes to Murphy’s law, yes, but being cautious is not the same as being a coward. Besides, Murphy’s law is dangerous. And for most of the episodes, his reactions are the same as Melissa and Milo, when Milo gets scared. As for his fear of fish, anyone can have these kinds of irrational fears. Also there’s the Halloween episode in which it’s made clear that he doesn’t have much fears aside from the fear of dying from the unpredictable, hence his usual resentment with Murphy’s law.

It’s also worth mentioning that MML follows the trope of having a group with two guys and one girl; with one guy being the main character, the girl being the smart one and the second guy being the coward or the forgettable one in certain shows. I think this might be one of the reasons why there’s this idea that Zack is a coward.

But aside from the fact that, in my personal opinion, this plot comes out of nowhere, there’s also the problem that we barely see it at all. I mean, in “Snow Way out”, it’s put into the story. Then they completely forget about it and Zack goes back to act chill and cautious until “Freefall” whose entire plot revolves around Zack being fearful (again, rightfully fearful given the situation). Then it’s dropped again until “The Mid-Afternoon Snack Club” with the idea that Zack feels overshadowed by Milo (which, honestly, sounds like a more interesting arc than the whole fear thing). And finally, it’s dropped yet again until the very last episode in which they keep insisting that he has no fear anymore.

Seriously, am I the only one seeing this ? Or am I just bad at noticing the character growth ?

7. Smaller pet peeves

So that last point is a list of small things that bother me in this season but that I don’t see myself write 10 paragraphs about :

- Most of the supporting cast needed more screentime. Seriously, characters like Neal and Veronica basically don’t exist this season, Sara also has a much more minor role, Bradley desperately needs some kind of character arc, most of the school characters and staff are also pretty absent (we miss you Drako !), Brick and Savannah only appear twice, once being a cameo in front of a pistachio cart, and I’m sure there’s more that I forgot.

- A very personal opinion so it’s not really a pet peeve but time travel was much more interesting than aliens, though the plots were pretty similar with the people involved trying to get to Milo, only for Murphy’s law to occur and ruin their plan. Also, while I really like the captain/leader, the two guys sent to capture Milo are your usual comedic duo, like the two small devils in Disney’s Hercules (I don’t know their name in English, I only know that they’re named “Peur” and “Panique” in French).

And fun fact, “Spy Little Sister” is probably my favorite episode of the season, and while watching it, I really had a feeling of “god I missed that” when time-travel occurred. Though, I’ll admit, the aliens plot does a much better job using Murphy’s law, not only with the aliens failing constantly because of it but also especially in the finale with each character having their own backpack to “fight against it”.

- Bob Block. There was some potential with that character (*cough* villain *cough*). Though, I won’t develop here because I already did at the beginning of another post.

- The episode “Game Night” is weird to me. Like, it’s not a bad episode, on the contrary it’s a great one, but at the same time I find myself not liking it. I think the main problem is that it should’ve been a season 1 episode due to the whole thing with the deadly vortex and how Cavendish and Dakota somehow knew what it was. Also I feel like there’s a waste of characters. I mean, we get the Murphy parents, Neal and Cav and Dakota and yet it feels like the episode is mostly focused on the main trio + Sara. Also Veronica was robbed. They could have easily removed the whole vortex thing, hence removing Cavendish and Dakota from the story, and have Veronica with the group instead. Look I love the two time-travelling idiots but other characters deserve some spotlight too.

Besides, thinking about it, it’s a bit sad that Cavendish and Dakota don’t really interact with the others when they’re on screen. There’s like 5 people in the room and yet we either see them talk to each other or to the group in general (though to be honest this disconnect between characters even when they’re in the same room is also in the crossover and the season 2 finale).

So yeah, this episode is weird. It has tons of elements that should make me love it (the Murphy parents; Neal; Melissa being Melissa; Dakota being Dakota; some Daka//vendish, including a 3 seconds argument that has some of the biggest “old married couple” energy we’ve seen in this show; Milo and Sara being overly dramatic babies; the Veronica cameo). And yet, I somehow can’t find myself really liking it. It’s weird.

So, overall, it was still a pretty good and solid season. Most episodes were pretty fun and enjoyable. But they were still a lot of small issues that, in my opinion, makes season 1 much better; and when I decide to watch random moments of the show or watch full episodes, I tend to mostly pick in that first season.

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legends-live-in-memories · 4 years ago

Text

I Have Too Many Opinions. ep. 1

lmao. i got encouragement to post my opinions on fandom things and now i want to make a miniseries doing just that. so here i am. doing just that.

im putting it under the cut cuz this was 4 whole pages including the disclaimer. yes i put a disclaimer and i explain why.

Anyways, here is the first piece in what inevitably will become fandom info dump, this time on thomas astruc’s writing on miraculous ladybug. but only some of my opinions cuz we would be here all day otherwise.

So… a disclaimer before I begin…

I do not hate Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug and Chat Noir (yes i'm using their government name). I am quite a fan of the show actually despite its faults. I am also older than the intended audience but was obviously younger when the show first aired which is how my interest was piqued (the fact that its been 6 years and only 3 seasons says more about the show than me being a fan for that amount of time but also i never want to rush content creators cuz they're doing their best) and due to my age, there will be inherent bias in my approach of what i'm about to say as there is in EVERY opinion. The fact that it is an opinion should imply the presence of bias but most people tend to lack the critical thinking skills required to draw that conclusion ANYWAYS…

If I did hate the show I would not have this blog nor would I be even writing this because i tend to not give more than 2 seconds of thought to things i actively dislike (some of yall should give this a try) and i'm allowed to like things that are designed for an audience that i was originally a part of but grew out of. (I don't suddenly stop liking things because I'm older despite what many younger fans seem to believe about older audiences. I also don't need to be ‘allowed’ to do anything cuz i wasn't asking for permission anyways.)

This will not be character bashing, astruc bashing nor fandom bashing cuz, again, that would imply i hate any of those elements and if i did, i would not dedicate brainpower to them. Analyses and criticisms of media are fun and engaging and required if you wish to produce good enjoyable content. Now most of this should be already assumed and self-explanatory but people on the internet like to play morality roulette roll dice on purity culture and I rather have documentation that I am in fact not bullying fictional 14 year olds or a grown man. But alas, people get trigger happy whenever someone has less than 1000000% positive opinions on something they like and will throw out words they can't define (gaslight, baiting, toxic, problematic, gatekeep etc) in an attempt to defend their blind devotion,

which is not needed, if you like something you never have to defend it, even if i don't like it. If you respond to anything I post saying you disagree with me, I will not argue with you. I won't debate back and forth and try to convince you that the things you like are wrong. Unless you are being absolutely tone deaf to what i'm saying, you wont get a negative reaction from me. So don't try to fish for a fight. Please. I got metaphorical hands for days and I'm mean, you don't want me hurting your feelings on the internet. Do yourself the favour. Difference of opinion is how we get diversification in media and is inherently a good thing. Now that that's out of the way, please don't ever let me have to say that again. I beg.

Now onto the fun stuff

I didn't know what I wanted as a first topic so my trusty internet friend @moonlitceleste suggested astruc’s writing…

AND BOI do i got some opinions on ole tommy boi. Again I don't hate the dude. In fact, he has worked on a few shows that had defined my childhood, including but not limited to W.I.T.C.H. (all eps available on youtube for those interested, 2 seasons, general fun time all around).

So I don't think he’s scum of the earth but I do think his approach to writing mlb specifically has more misses than hits.

The first big miss is that he has no idea how to write 14 year old girls. At all. Almost every girl he has ever written feels like some terrible archetype built entirely for marketability and childish projection and pubescent self-insert (kind of). He has never been a 14 year old girl. I have. In fact when the show first aired, I WAS around the (assumed) age of the mlb characters. The behaviour he passes off as quirky or awkward or just the character’s genuine personality tend to perpetuate harmful stereotypes of teen girls found in the media and are never actually addressed as harmful. they just get swept under the rug. Marinette’s exuberant collage of teen heart throb model boi Adrien Agreste and her very painful almost fan worship she has of him (which flip flops like a paper sandal in the rain) being portrayed as a cute school girl crush uwu, Chloe being the y7 Regina George, Alya being the token best friend of colour with her ‘sassy’ personality (i want y'all to imagine me eyerolling so hard i bust a vessel in my eye), Kagami being the very damaging Perfect Asian Child stereotype. And before y'all get on your dusty soap box and defend going on about “BUT IT'S FOR CHILDREN”,,,, know this.

i don’t give a solid fuck.

Not one.

Children arent stupid. Children are always going to remember the richy bitchy blonde who bullies the art kid, and the big kid, and the shy kid, and the non white kids, and was only nice to her equally rich white friend who she probably had a crush on or was only ever civil to her equally white lapdog. They're going to remember the half asian girl who was never allowed to actually be asian or the only black girl who existed solely as a soundboard for enabling bad habits or chastising the main character for the same habits she enables in the first place (boi aint THAT a topic for later). Like do i really need to explain that alya chastising marinette for taking max’s spot in gamer just to play with adrien rings absolutely hollow when she actively encourages her to sabotage the contest she’s in just so Kagami doesn't win?? Like I don't have to explain that right?? Again kids arent stupid and its quite something that Mari gets chastised for proving herself the best video game player regardless of her intentions just cuz it comes at the expense of max’s feelings/ego but is actively encouraged to sabotage not only kagami but herself by extension cuz kagami is ‘competition.’ Adrien is not a trophy to be won. And no I don't expect 14 yrs old to be perfect and to always make good decisions but these decisions are never addressed as being bad decisions. they get swept under the rug cuz those decisions were necessary for the ‘plot’ but astruc can barely keep characterization consistent and his characters suffer for it and it's the same children you preach are watching it that suffer as well. Cuz guess what? I KNOW 14 yr olds aren't like that cuz i've been there done that (this is the last time i'm saying that i promise) so I know astruc is just metaphorically throwing darts to figure out who says and does what without consideration for pre established personalities to drive the stalemate plot along. The same kids you say are watching this don't know that that's not how preteens work and will absorb and internalize those dynamics like baking soda and vinegar. Cata-fucking-strophically.

And I haven't even gotten to the boys yet. Which honestly doesn't require much explanation anyways cuz they suffer the same fate as the girls. Tired archetypes with nothing to give them life. Nino falls into Adrien’s person of colour token best friend who dates the female lead’s person of colour token best friend so they can have cute double dates uwu. Except the plot goes nowhere and we have no inclination of romantic development beyond moments that only act to actively convince me to anti ship the lovesquare (i don't want to do that so i self indulge in fanon that actually cares about the characters and plot. may i interest you in True Sight on AO3?). Max is the residential nerd but it doesn't matter (cuz he and everyone are dumbed down for the sake of ‘plot’), kim is the sports jock (which interestingly subverts the asian comedic relief stereotype but only barely) and luka is cute older guy ™ that wears black nail polish and is in a band. The point of all this is to say there is no depth in the characters. It's especially blatantly obvious with the characters astruc doesn't like (chloe). Again, it being a show for kids is not an excuse to be absolved of putting effort into the characters you make.

This is one of the biggest misses astruc has. I haven't even gone into all the nuances of this particular miss. And i havent gone into how that works against him in the plot either. Mostly because the plot itself hasn't gone anywhere and partially because I wanted to go into the plot (or lack thereof) separately as its own miss.

AND BOI is it a miss.

SO home boy astruc wanted to reap the benefits of a serial show with ‘engaging’ plot without putting in any of the work to make a linear storyline and relying on the episodic format for, again, marketability. You can't have the best of both worlds, you are not Avatar: The Last Airbender. Which btw has a lot less episodes and a desired end goal that didn't involve top dollar. Legend of Korra did but that's not the point and it had its failings with that too. I challenge you, tell me how many episodes actually contribute towards a plot point or introduce new thematic elements to the show? Can you name them? I can and I'm going to include the plot points that moved the story in some direction if only temporarily. Yes only temporarily for some of these and i will explain later. (if you're in the server you already saw this list *wink*)

25/26. Origins- self explanatory, the beginning of the story,

24. Volpina- introduction of the grimoire and Master Fu (kind of) and no, Lila is not a plot point,

28. The Collector- proper introduction of Master Fu,

37. Sapotis- introduction of Rena Rouge,

41. Syren- introduction of new aquatic power ups,

44. Anansi- introduction of Carapace,

47. Frozer- introduction of new ice power ups,

48/49. Style Queen- introduction of Queen Bee,

51/52. Heroes’ Day- introduction of Mayura and mass akumatization,

66. Startrain- introduction of Pegasus,

67. Kwami Buster- Marinette wears multiple miraculouses,

68. Feast- backstory as to how the miraculouses were lost,

69. Ikari Gozen- introduction of Ryuko,

70. Timetagger- introduction of Bunnyx,

71. Party Crasher- introduction of Roi Singe and Viperion,

73. Chat Blanc- alternate timeline that essentially means nothing but got a reaction out of fans anyways (myself included)

77/78. Love Eater/Battle of Miraculous- Marinette becomes guardian and other heroes lose their miraculous,

New York Special- other heroes exist and there is an American miraculous box,

That's 21 episodes. 21 out of a heaping 78 plus 2 specials. Everything else was just your typical akuma of the day episode and everything that happened outside that had no lasting consequences on the plot thanks to the miraculous status quo. Was it entertaining to watch Lila stir the plot of the class dynamic? Hell yeah. Too bad it meant nothing by the end of the episode cuz we were struck with miraculous status quo. She literally doesn't appear again until Heroes Day. that is from episodes 25 all the way to 51, she means nothing and yet she is treated with the severity of a b-villain/rival thing. She means nothing by the end of Volpina if I'm being honest. She is only relevant for 20 mins of episode time she’s in then it's back to magic status quo that undoes any shift in dynamics and relationships. It's like Spongebob who can't get his driver’s license. The worst part is I actually like Lila and I wish the story treated her with the seriousness we as an audience are expected to treat her with. Despite being painfully inconsequential by the end of each of the 3?? 4?? episodes she’s in, it's entertaining to watch a character create drama just because.

Too bad it means nothing.

Astruc is constantly building up suspense to something ‘important’ only for it to not deliver and fans are constantly having the rug pulled out from under us. Oblivio teased us with a reveal only that gets undone cuz memory akuma. Chat Blanc teased us with romantic development but that gets undone cuz time travel bullshit. Feast introduced more miraculous lore and the history of the guardians but that means nothing by the next episode or ever (i'm not including any reference to the season 4 trailer cuz i've been around the block a few times and im familiar with this lil dancy dance). Heroes Day teased us with a possible future team of heroes but that gets undone in Battle of Miraculous cuz ????? why?? (here's why; astruc was having a jolly ole time letting us know how irredeemable Chloe is at the expense of shooting his own stagnant plot in the foot. Again, discussion for later.)

Too bad anything that slightly swerves off course from the akuma of the day gets undone or ignored. Too bad nothing has any lasting consequence. I mean, if anything did, the episodes would have had a consistent order and release schedule so im not scrambling to watch the leaked ep in Portuguese or something while the french dub is two episodes behind while the english version hasnt even been dubbed. I really wonder how he plans to conclude the show when he’s so afraid to step out of the corner he painted himself in.

Again, not going into nuances. If you want you can ask for more specifics (i doubt anyone would) but this is really just a slightly detailed general overview of my opinions on astruc’s writing.

I was going to include another miss in his approach to this show but imma save that for another time.

How’s that for a ‘first’ post?

#mlb #opinions my guy opinions #i dont wanna tag this as salt #but mlb criticisms and analyses #IHTMO #the hashtag for this series #thomas astruc #miraculous fandom #miraculous ladybug #miraculous: tales of ladybug and cat noir #yes the government name again #come get yall juice #miraculous

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wackology · 4 years ago

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Dumb HBCU/WR movie ramblings

Ok so I've been thinking a bit about the HBCU and a potential Wacky Races movie in development a bit and I got a lot of shit to say about this so buckle your seatbelts and hold on to your hats as you witness my incoherent ramblings and fanon headcanons.

So it pretty much agreed upon that any next installment of the HBCU is gonna take a while to come out considering how WB has put the HBCU in standstill for their dr seuss cinematic universe and liveaction-animation hyprid movies. Hell even the director of Scoob said that. The possibility of us getting another cinematic HB film in the next 5 years are close to none but if we were to get a movie it would probably be wacky races themed. Why? Cuz the Scoob film left off with Dick escaping prison with the wacky races on his mind (or in this case, his prison cell) and it would make sense for WB to continue the HBCU (which they probs don't plan to) with a character we are pretty familiar with and the only likable character in Scoob. Which begs the question, where would the plot go narrative wise?

Dick probably won't be the main character of the story but I can practically guarantee it will be Penelope Pitstop. I mean they already got concept art and i think they have models too that were unused and the people on scoob said they didn't add her to the film because they planned for her to be part of something bigger. Basically, I bet my left arm that the protag will be penny because apart from dick and muttley, she was the most memorable character of the show. We must also consider how they would tie up other hanna barbera characters and properties into a WR film thats part of an HBCU installment.

So basically, with this in mind I have created a few theoretical plots/premises that might happen in a WR movie

1. A Hooded Claw driven girl power film

Claw is an og and classic antagonist for penny, and if they really wanted to make a film centered on her the hooded claw is the perfect character to play the bad guy. I feel like the plot would go a bit like this: In order to kill penny and get her inheritance, Claw sponsored/set up the wacky races to kill penelope under the guise that good ol uncle sylvester was supporting Penny's girl power dreams to be a racer. Basically, he acts all supportive and shit for her to chase her dreams and enter this new race but under the mask actually set the whole thing up as an elaborate plan to kill her.

He lets the most deranged, insane and wacky people enter the race, from a gangster mob, to literal monsters to a pilot racer and a military tank duo with guns and canons thinking that Penny's survival chances in this race will be close to none, especially with it being a sausage fest and him not believing in girl power. He even hires a professional mercenary with an evil dog to help kill penny in the WR (yes, dick, and yes he was sucessful at killing the pigeon in the scoobverse so he is actually considered quite the exceptional and competent villian in universe).

The rest of the film would be her racing and doing good despite all the odds and ends at her winning the grand finale, much to the frustration of Claw.Basically a film of empowerment for young girls to enjoy. This plot would probably be the most faithful to the original WR and most likely be a prequel to Scoob since the movie implies that Dick was doing all the skull shit after the wacky races sooo yeah.

There could also be a peter/penny subplot, perhaps not as romantic interests but as platonic friends or just some flirty exchanges between them, as well as a dick subplot with him not liking to race much at first and doing it for just the money but coming to love it as the film progresses. This plot would also probably be the least HBCU type film since it is mostly WR based and by nature would already have a ton of characters but they might try to replace some of the less memorable characters with other HB characters that are a bit more memorable than the boring racers but not as well known to have their own films (could see the country bears replace luke and blubber bear as well as any other character replace the lumberjack guy).

2. The Great Race inspired film

So we kinda get the idea in scoob that dick hasn't been in the Wacky races for a while after muttley disappeared and all the skull business happened but as we all know, dick was the character who made the races actually interesting. So the execs couldnt just have the wacky races without dick so what did they do ? They got a doppleganger of course, that being this boyyyy

Basically, the Wacky Races executives used Dick's way less famous twin brother the Dread Baron and his dog friend Mumbly to fill in for the two once they realized Dick wasn't going to come back after prison. They were wrong of course but dick doesnt know he's been replaced and escapes thinking he was going to join the races again but when he does find out it bruises his ego a lot.

This idea technically serves better as a subplot and could be woven into the hooded claw story above if we just changed a few elements( make it happen after scoob instead of before, perhaps DB and Mumbly were hired by claw to kill penny and dick has to begrudgingly help penny and peter to get his place back in wacky races). After plot stuff happens it ends with dick being in the WR again and DB finding employment elsewhere in the Laffalympics which can easily tie into the established HBCU since it has the yogi gang, mystery gang, captain caveman and the teen angels gang and blue falcon and dynomutt.

Does this theoretical plot draw a lot from my personal desire to see DB just once. Yes. But do i care. No

3. The super HBCU plot(probs the most likely)

So the end credits basically tell us that after the scoob movie that the mystery gang and other HB characters joined the falcon force and are fighting baddies and crap.

Dick has escaped so they will probably start looking for him and in order to do so they get tangled up in the wacky races. Dick isnt the main antagonist tho( he's either trying to sabotage the other wacky racers because he is salty af or begrudgingly has to help out the heros or main antagonist) but the falcon/scooby gang discover a huge conspiracy happening within the wacky races that goes something like this: this race was set up kind of like a scavenger hunt across the world or the US to find mcguffins that are actually really powerful and crap when assembled, which is what the villain was trying to do because evil reasons. Basically wacky raceland done funnier or just Jojo's Bizarre Adventure Steel Ball Run.

In this premise not only would the og wacky racers and scoob cast be in it but i bet there would also be a bunch of cameos and references to other HB characters and they might even join in on the action and be racers too. I have no real clue on who the main baddie would be but I think it would be a johnny quest bad guy or something:( in the end credits they are teaming up with Quest industries after all).

I feel like the entire vibe of a premise like this would be very mad max like but without all the apocalypse stuff and just pure unrefined insanity. I kinda based these ideas off some of the unused concept art in scoob and I'm pretty sure the gang and the falcon force would team up with penny cuz they were planning to do so in the og concept art.

I have a few other ideas in my head but those arent fully developed but I might post them one day lol. But yeah, thanks for listening to my dumb shit lol

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normal-thoughts-official · 4 years ago

Note

magnus is this notorious pirate famous in the caribbean with everyone talking about him because of how successful he is. his quartermaster is definitely raphael (his care for his clan and how he cares for others solidifies this thought process) and their ship has some corny name that raphael pretends to hate but definitely loves. europe thinks that magnus and his crew are demons(racists fucks) meanwhile theyre out here being nerds who enjoys navigating the seas and ruining racists job prospects+

+cat and ragnor live on nassau with magnus bringing back supplies they sell(we love the blackmarket here). the lightwoods are brought into this world bc their parents send them off to nassau to try and expand the family's business and gain profit off of this lawless place which refuses to be governed by anyone. malec meets at like the local inn where maia works at also where izzy meets her and by association The Polycule)and is just attracted to each other right then and there with bad flirting. once they become settled in, alec and izzy becomes like disillusioned with following what their parents expect of them and start to actually do what they wish. because he's dramatic, alec probably asks ragnor who settled down from pirating for more lessons in sword fighting (hes not unexperienced but theres a difference from fighting on land and on water)

eventually magnus hears about this cue them dramatically learning how to fight on like this cliff top with their swords connecting (we love euphemisms for sex) and them bonding over magnus' book collection he has and them no longer doing what their parents expect of them (im imagining asmodeus as this well traveled trader or something who only cares about money rather than having humanity) and even though magnus is this pirate which is a profession that the "civilized world" looks down on, he's like the epitome of actually having morals and caring about people (pirates were known to drastically impact the slave trade as they often freed slaves and let them join their crew or they worked directly with maroons and indigenous people).

i imagine their first kiss to be when theyre training and someone has a sword pressed against the others neck because theyre horny bastards and they accept only the dramatics. their proposal/matelot is potc levels of dramatic with them fighting an enemy crew alongside The Polycule(the most badass and queer crew out there) and like halfway through alec is just like marry me and then next thing they know it raphael is officiating their marriage around dead people before they go on to have a better and more planned out wedding on shore (had to get some of this out now before i went too deep, The Poycule is definitely something i paid attention to most considering how big and complex the group is)

ugh not to add to an already huge post but

you are totally right about raphael being his quartermaster! raphael is a great leader and he cares so much for his people and he is one of the few people magnus obviously trusts, even as they have their differences. only other person i could imagine as magnus' quartermaster would be cat but like! raphael is perfect for the job! also i love the idea that he pretends to hate the corny name, he has to pretend to hate magnus' puns and jokes on principle but really he loves it

also "meanwhile they are all nerds" accurate, the whole ship is just a whole mess of people having fun and being family we love that for them

and ok not to slut for the polycule but i'm slutting for the polycule i just. aaa want to know so much more about them. i know you said they were already with maia but idk i can see many of them being part of magnus' crew? especially meliorn and tbh clary lmao she seems the type who would love adventure like that (i'm going with fanon clary here mostly) and i can see simon in both but i can also definitely see simon being in the inn with maia (god i have a half baked au that includes that) because being in the sea all day? no thank you. and they are just this nice local couple that helps all the pirates because fuck the racist law

also it's hilarious because they are so warm and welcoming and the lightwoods get there and simon is like "oh-oh. incoming" and maia is all like "what the fUCK do you want"

which lowkey backfires because izzy is just like "oh she's so fierce, i love her" and is already like, halfway in love doing the head tilt and huge grin thing (she's not creepy about it, just like, she likes it, you know? especially because in this AU izzy was raised as a Rich Girl so she's expected to be all that fragile useless white woman ideal and yada yada and she's not here for that so she's attracted to the idea of women like clary and maia)

and just like ghhgggghhh not to slut but i love the idea that they are in the inn and meliorn raphael and possibly clary are always in the sea so like! sweet reunions! not that they are usually going super far lmao mostly just stopping the slave trade and protecting the caribbean and shit, but that's a few months in between visits and i picture that at some point when they are getting to nassau raphael is just like, vibrating (you know, as much as he allows himself to) and magnus just smiles knowingly, happy that his boy has found people he's so happy with

and raphael getting into the inn and being like "simon! maia!" and simon and maia being like "raphael! meliorn!" and just crashing into this big group hug and it's all laughs and meliorn twirls maia and she giggles and simon kisses raphael's cheek and is all worried about them both (plus clary) because god what the fuck kind of shit did they get into this time, are they hurt? if he's broken another leg he's gonna- and raphael laughs and says "no, cariño, i promise all i have with me are gifts" because he's not gonna travel the caribbean and not bring stuff for his partners. so it's him and meliorn showering maia and simon in gifts and pretty and maybe stolen things (maia in particular takes such great joy in learning that her pretty new bracelet belonged to some racist bitch) like spoils you know? lmao, and looking at them it's like they haven't seen each other in years or something but no it's been like a month and it's always like that

and alec and izzy are just watching that, mouths slack, shocked, but highkey yearning for something as free as that, that loving family and that open love and meliorn's genderfuckery and just everything about them! and alec "conceal don't feel" lightwood is kind of frowning and goes "are they always like that?" to which magnus, behind him, answers "yes" and then he turns around and they stare at each other and magnus quickly goes from "happy for my boys" to "hello tall person" in a matter of seconds and is suddenly all seductive and flirty and alec is having the time of his life? especially since here away from the lightwoods he can allow himself just a little bit, and letting a guy flirt with him can't hurt, right? he knows izzy won't tell their parents. so he engages

cue terribly bad flirting, izzy smiling widely as she watches the polycule dynamics, highkey wanting something like that for herself, especially seeing the way that clary talks to maia all like "look at this SWORD" and all the adventures. and maia still doesn't trust her but apparently magnus has already hit it off with her brother so what the hell, they might as well stay

and just!! yes getting to know each other shenanigans. i picture that like the army gets there and tries to get magnus and his crew and alec and izzy are like running to them to warn them (alec not knowing quite why, he shouldn't be taking that big of a risk, he shouldn't be getting attached to a pirate - of whom he's only heard terrible things so far, thinks they are Evil basically - just because something about him is alluring and represents the freedom he doesn't allow himself to want, but... he is getting attached) and the whole gang is all like *very calmly heading to the secret hideout in their room* oh don't worry about that lmao they do this every week

and idk i just want a moment where they are almost found and alec and izzy lowkey save their ass (i mean they would have managed but they make it easier, maybe use the Privilege Card lmao). maybe the guards were closer than they thought so alec ends up just shoving magnus into the hideout and when the guards come in he's all like "WHO is interrupting our sleep" and acts like an entitled brat and they don't even search the room lmao and then alec runs to the hideout all "sorry that i pushed you, are you okay?" and magnus is all like "i'm fine" but a little touched about the care. just to establish that trust, you know? both between them and between izzy and the rest of the polycule

so after that it all kind of flows smoothly because they know they can genuinely trust the lightwoods and so it grows into something more. magnus and alec can bond over having Terrible Parents With Terrible Morals and they open up about their respective traumas with abuse, and alec confesses to magnus for the first time ever that he doesn't want to be like his parents, that he thought if maybe he earned their respect, he could change things from the inside. and magnus looks at him all soft and touched and is like "there's no changing things from the inside" and alec is like "i'm starting to realize that" you know

and yeah alec gets to see how much that crew cares for each other, way more than his "traditional family" ever could (except for him and izzy who are just as devoted to each other as the crew is, but like, it's honestly less the "blood relations" and more how they've always been there for each other as they handled their parents' shittiness) and again he's just yearning because he always believed he wouldn't get something like that. and magnus in particular is just so caring and just wants to make the world a better place, you know? and he admires that and they bond over that, too

and just jdhdaodshad god i love this. and meanwhile izzy is flirting with maia clary and meliorn like crazy and soon they are like this huge messy group with all those dynamics... and i just aaa and alec and izzy end up joining the crew and daiodsaiodjsaio RAPHAEL OFFICIATING THEIR WEDDING i'm genuinely all for that fucking shit, magnus wants his boy to do it for them and aaaaa! also i DEMAND raphael&meliorn fighting sequences because i bet they would make a bomb ass duo fighting back to back and shit, you know? bonus points if they are defending simon and maia who are behind them and just making sure no one touches them?? i live for this shit

in short i love this and you said “get some out of your chest" so if there's more, then fuck, i can't wait to see it dahsdaijas i'm sorry for talking so much i get too excited

#malec #magnus bane #alec lightwood #izzy lightwood #raphael santiago #maia roberts #simon lewis #clary fray #meliorn #The Polycule™#saiaphaeliorn #claiabelle #shadowhunters #sh #au idea #pirate au

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