#but i feel like a lot of his mistakes or consequences of his actions aren't addressed as...being CONSEQUENCES of HIS ACTIONS

[bloomeng]

I feel like something a lot of people miss when discussing DC canon is context.

(Warning: Mentions of canon sexual assault scenes)

So today I saw a discussion about Alfred's fanon perception versus canon reality. I wouldn't say op was criticizing people for thinking of him as a sweet old man, merely just pointing out that he's canonly not so innocent and it goes unaddressed. He was the one who nudged Tim into the Robin mantle and he was the one who stripped it from him and gave it to Damian without asking. There's a whole plotline about how he had a daughter that he abandoned. He was the one who put up the "soldier" plaque memorial. All of these things are true, however, I don't think it was the writers' intentions to paint a lot (not all) of his actions as negative. In fact, the writing often goes out of its way to paint Alfred as a martyr. That doesn't make his actions right, nor does it mean that someone is wrong for being upset with him, but it also means that people aren't stupid or wrong for interpreting his character as this beacon of virtue. It's also notable that most people are probably more acquainted with his animated and film adaptations where he hasn't done any of the things I've listed.

Context is always important when analyzing media, but it is ESPECIALLY important when discussing DC because of the sheer volume of authors writing for a single character.

This is why there are so many arguements about whether or not Bruce is a bad father. When you have so many authors writing a character for close to a century, you're going to have inconsistencies and their takes on the character will contradict. We can go in circles bringing up issues that prove either side, but it's futile. Everyone is entitled to their feelings towards things that happen in canon, but I don't think it's fair to pass ultimate judgement based on something that was often written by one shitty writer.

Now disregarding DC canon is something the fandom is selectively good at, but the curtesy is not extended evenly. Going back to Alfred for a moment. A legit criticism of the writing is that he abandoned his daughter and that isn't really addressed outside of the issue that introduced it. And I think the reality is that DC often recognizes their mistakes after the fact and isn't equipped to handle the conversations they start so they quietly retcon. Which isn't great, but I also think it's a silent mercy. See not addressing something is bad, but putting out offensive media is more detrimental IN MY OPINION.

This is even more evident when it comes to DC's history with depicting sexual assault. They constantly back themselves into corners. I really appreciated that Gail Simone's Batgirl run retconned the Joker's sexual assault against Barbara. SA is something that is important to talk about but it's also something that needs to be treated with care. What happened to Barbara was not a productive conversation. There were so many gross undertones of the Joker specifically sexually assaulting her. Same with Talia sexually assaulting Bruce. There are very real racist undertones. There is a time and place to discuss male victims and the way male rape victims are written off, but the story is not concerned with having that conversation. So now we’re not only not having that conversation but we’re also stereotyping and villainizing POC women which also has real world consequences.

Now this next part might get me boos from the audience but to me this also extends to Dick and Tarantula. I know a lot of people want DC to acknowledge what happened, but to that I'm like why? Devin Grayson is a notably bad writer when it comes to Dick. There are racist undertones to having Tarantula sexually assault Dick. Devin is literally known for making Dick Roma for fetish reasons. Before this Dick Grayson was a white character, who was already written to be flirty and sexual. These are all important things to consider about the context of the writing. I think it would actually be best if DC did what Gail Simone did with Batgirl. I think it’s unfair to not give these WOC characters the same treatment of understanding when their actions are shitty because of shit authors.

Real world context is vital for understanding these fictional stories. Batman can't kill because that would mean they would have had to be constantly introducing new villains and it would be less child friendly. Robin was introduced to the story because they were trying to market to children. Batman continuing to recruit children is about marketing to kids. The hyper-focus on Dick's romantic life was in part an effort to fight gay allegations. These are all important factors to consider if you're discussing DC critically.

Like realistically yeah it sucks so bad that Alfred and Bruce allowed children to fight crime. But it's also notable to mention that Dick forced Bruce's hand, Bruce was really trying to stop this kid from murdering a man. It was a compromise. Alfred and Dick may have pushed Tim to become Robin but he was already one foot out the door. Damian and Cass were trained by assassins. None of these kids are realistic depictions of children, even if they are relatable. When you read a superhero comic you are suspending a certain level of disbelief and I don't think it's the hot take people think it is to criticize Batman for allowing kids to fight.

Like cool, then we don't have a story. Nothing about superheroes are realistic. Why is this the line we draw in the sand?

I didn't know when to bring this up, so I'm going to awkwardly tack it on at the end. So the "Nothing Butt Nightwing" webcomic... Yeah it looks not good, but a lot of people are calling it out for sexualizing Dick, which once again to me fails to understand the outside context. There is a difference between sexualizing and sexualization of an ethnicity. As I mentioned, for most of Dick's run he was a white character who was written to be flirty. Devin was fetishizing him, but allowing Dick to remain a flirty character is not an act of fetish based sexualization. Personally I think it’s more harmful to get rid of core aspects of his character now that he is canonly Romani. Not to mention that if we address the SA with his character we are now back in this place of stereotyping and bad undertones. So until DC is ready to tell a legitimate story about male SA victims I'd rather the Dick Grayson thing be left silently in the past. I'm so hyper aware that I'm in the minority though. I agree it could be really powerful to have one of those stories be told but consider how harmful it would be to continue to imply these things about WOC.

[strawdool]

Let me tell you Straw, your Modern AU has given me an immense amount of inspiration. At one point I would have liked to write some fanfics around it but it wasn't really in my right to do so, so I didn't. I think I like this AU in particular because in order for Lamb and Narinder to even remotely make it work they have to fight through a ton of issues. I like seeing characters get completely broken by the consequences of their actions and then learn how to fight their own demons. It's also a bit of hit or miss on whether people like this relationship development, but I really like the kind of relationships in fiction where the characters have to really fight for it. It's all well and good to have a story where the characters fall in love instantly and after maybe one calamity or two, they set off in the sunset. But for me, I like the relationships more where you aren't sure where things are going. There's clear signs but the two characters really have to want that relationship to make it work and fight through a lot of problems. It can suck seeing the characters stumble but in the end to me, it's very rewarding that once they have (hopefully) solved said issues, they will probably have a stronger and healthier relationship than most. To me, any kind of foundation that has seen struggle and survived it will always be stronger than one that has never experienced conflict. In other words, a relationship that could survive its issues and find compromise and resolution I think is more likely to last in the end. This is not always the case but in fiction we can force happy endings right? That said though, I have to really wonder if your modern Narinder and Lamb will ever get their act together to actually forge a peaceful and successful life together. I don't know if you have a full story planned out or not but if Narinder has already screwed up to the point of a breakup then there may be no recovery from that. The path forward I see is him finally addressing his problems and trying to turn his life around. As the Lamb, hopefully they can find a life where they're not in threat of the outside world. Maybe the two could eventually reconcile and form a long lasting friendship even if it never fully repairs. I'm just always hoping that characters will learn from their mistakes even though often in real life some people never learn and will constantly do the same horrible things. If I had to say what the most appealing part of your au is, it's the hope aspect. It's the hope that someday Narinder will realize what a trash bucket he is and do something about it. It's the hope that the Lamb can realize their self worth. Maybe it'll end with Narinder, a fully cleaned up man with a plan, formally apologizing to the Lamb for everything he's done and after a cordial conversation he disappears, on to a new life. The Lamb doesn't really know what becomes of him but hopes that he will do some good with his life. Maybe somewhere in the back of their head they'll lament too that Narinder figured things out too late. I don't know, thinking out loud at this point. But hey, this is a very interesting AU and it has sparked far more ideas than just those. So have a good day and I very much look forward to more if you happen to do so.

me when anon goes into a full rant about my au i feel so happy that my au had make you have a lot of inspo <33333

anyway answering your question, Narinder and Lamb spiral after the breakup: lamb bc they were betrayed at their most vulnerable and Narinder trying to justify his bad action with "they deserved it" but deep down knowing he fucked up badly but he doesnt want to accept that and so he doubles down and he gets into a very bad place mentally.

but while Lamb finally opens up to their insecurities and their situations to goat and ratau after all. Narinder had already pushed everyone away; no family, no friends, nothing.

it takes a while until one day Narinder finally comes to the realization how badly he is and starts getting his life together. (i like to say that it all starts with cleaning his apartment lol)

he doesnt contact lamb for a whole year at this point he even got a job and is now reconnecting with his kids, until he remember Lamb and finally accepts that the way he treated them and all the blame the put on them wasnt right.

And so he tries to find them to talk things throught (goes to a point he kinda starts stalking them for a bit) and when he finally gets to them Goat is the one who interrupts him with punching him in the face. but mf doesnt give up which results in him getting his ass beaten many times.

For Lamb and Narinder to finally get on good terms it takes a while, if reconstructing their friendship already took them months, rekindle the romantic relationship its another can of worms that both try to take it slowly and not rush things. Narinder in that he becomes really nervous, afraid to hurt them again and Lamb tries to takes things step by step specially for trusting him again.

[antianakin]

Is it just me or do you get a little exasperated/tired with how everyone seems to let Anakin do whatever he wants and there’s no repercussions?

Like when R2 got lost and Anakin admitted that he never wiped R2’s memories, ignore his mission to blow up Grievous’s spy post to look for him on the off chance he was there. All Obi-Wan seemed to do was sigh and shake his head.

I just wish he got more pushback and punishments instead of everyone letting things slide.

Oh definitely, sometimes. Like I get it, generally, in universe, that most of the time when Anakin does something sort-of stupid that it tends to work out anyway and the Jedi seem to work from a position of "let them learn from their own mistakes rather than punishing them for making a mistake" which is good and I like that. But Anakin so rarely sees any real CONSEQUENCES for his choices, even if it's just natural consequences as opposed to an imposed punishment, that he never seems to ACTUALLY learn anything from said mistakes and instead just continues to believe he was in the right.

With the R2 example, the listening post blows up in the end and he gets R2 back. Some of his men die, but Ahsoka and Rex (who are the only ones he actually cares about of the group he brought in) both live, so while there ARE consequences to his choice, they aren't consequences that matter TO ANAKIN. So what Anakin learns from this mission isn't that he needs to have better security regarding his droid, or that sometimes he needs to let go of the people he cares about in favor of the larger mission, but just that he was RIGHT. He CAN do it all, he CAN save the people he loves AND get the mission done, so why SHOULDN'T he try to have everything he wants and assume it'll just... work out for him.

And from the Jedi's perspective here, the mission is, essentially, a success. There isn't necessarily any good reason for a "punishment" of sorts. Obi-Wan makes it clear he doesn't approve of Anakin's choices regarding R2 and he DID try to order Anakin to do certain things regardless of his feelings, Anakin just didn't follow them and technically Obi-Wan got the result he wanted anyway, so there's very little Obi-Wan can really say or do other than what he already has. In AOTC, Obi-Wan's entire arc is about recognizing that Anakin is an adult now and that the next step in both of their journeys is to learn to let Anakin make his own mistakes and just hope that Obi-Wan has trained him well enough to both avoid particularly catastrophic mistakes and allow him to learn from the mistakes he DOES make so he can continue to be a better Jedi as a result. Obi-Wan has to let go, step back, and LET Anakin make those mistakes and just have faith that he's done enough. We see that continue in TCW, not just with Obi-Wan, but with some of the other Jedi as well, like Mace and Yoda and Plo sometimes. They all KNOW Anakin's doing stupid shit sometimes, they KNOW Anakin struggles with a lot of things, and we do see them coming up to try to talk to him and give him advice more than once, but their philosophy isn't to punish him for struggling, but rather to have faith that he'll make it THROUGH the struggle and do better.

So while I don't necessarily wish he got more punishments in canon, because I do think the Jedi are actually making the right, healthy choice regarding the choices they KNOW ABOUT, I do wish he had more NATURAL consequences for his actions that involve things that are actually meaningful to him.

For example, while this would never have happened for obvious narrative continuity reasons, I wish Padme had actually stuck to her guns about staying broken up/separated during the Clovis arc. I wish that his response to what happened with Clovis had frightened her enough to actually cause the relationship to end because she doesn't honestly know when he'll turn that anger on her.

In an AU version of events, I feel like the Jedi learning about the Tusken massacre might've caused more natural consequences in the sense that the Jedi would suddenly see Anakin VERY differently and lose a lot of that faith they're choosing to have in him by this point because holy shit that is a MASSIVE loss of control that DOES require more of a response than a slap on the wrist. Like they wouldn't necessarily punish him, but they might remove him from the front lines, they might remove Ahsoka as his Padawan (even if it's just temporarily), they might insist that he go to some sort of meditative retreat and see some mind healers until they can be sure that he's stable enough to take up certain duties again. I imagine Ahsoka's view of him might change pretty drastically if she learned about that, especially with how young she is at the time, and maybe she chooses never to return to his tutelage even if she ultimately does forgive him.

And of course none of this even touches how I feel about consequences for his choices from Order 66 and beyond. People more sympathetic to him would probably say that losing three limbs and being forced into the Vader suit and "losing Padme" are all natural consequences and that these are all "enough" for what he's done. But I just... can't agree. But he also manages to get his son's unconditional love and forgiveness. He manages to get OBI-WAN AND YODA'S unconditional love and forgiveness. He manages to be considered SO REDEEMED that he becomes a Force Ghost and CHEATS DEATH just so he can... what? Say goodbye to Luke for a second time or something? As a reward for doing the BARE MINIMUM of being a decent person and just not letting his son get murdered in front of him? Cool, great, give him the "not as big of a jerk as he could've been" award. He manages to get Ahsoka's love and forgiveness for everything he's done as per the Ahsoka show, and even gets almost completely exonerated for his choices by having them get brushed off as "meant to be" or whatever. Rex never seems to get told the truth about him as of current canon so Anakin gets to live with the nice knowledge that Rex presumably died thinking he was a hero.

So, sure, he gets a few consequences for his choices, but he ends up getting nearly everything he wants in the end. The loss of the Jedi doesn't actually matter to him, the loss of the Republic DEFINITELY doesn't matter to him, he can deal with pain, he's still ridiculously powerful, and while he lost Padme he gets Luke. The consequences he gets are almost all entirely meaningless, and he gets more rewards that DO mean something to him for the absolute bare minimum than he gets real consequences for the absolutely horrific atrocities he commits.

This is why I love the Kenobi show so much because that show gave me THREE WHOLE PEOPLE who chose to leave him behind. Reva, obviously, hates him and never actually forgives him for what he's done even though she ultimately has to let go of her anger so she doesn't become him. Leia obviously never meets Anakin and isn't letting go of him because she doesn't want to associate herself with someone like him, but she DOES go through an entire arc where she decides that the only parents she needs are the Organas, and even when Obi-Wan tells her what gifts she's inherited from Anakin and Padme, she clearly intentionally chooses to associate ALL OF THOSE THINGS with Bail and Breha instead because THEY'RE the parents SHE chose. And of course, then there's Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan who feels so guilty still for what Anakin's become and the part he played in it and who tries to apologize for the things he does and doesn't know about, but who ultimately realizes that he never failed Anakin, Anakin failed HIM, and the best thing Obi-Wan can do is walk away and leave Anakin behind for good. Anakin made his choices and nothing Obi-Wan can do will keep him from CONTINUING to make those choices now, so it's better to focus on the people he CAN help and leave Anakin to wallow in his own darkness. There is no forgiveness for Anakin in this show, not once. Obi-Wan's reaction isn't "there's good in him still" but "what good might still be there isn't something he's acting on so it doesn't really matter anymore."

And, if we believe that this was a real confrontation that happened, means that Anakin finally got a REAL FUCKING CONSEQUENCE in that show. He spends the ENTIRE SHOW hunting for Obi-Wan and obsessing over Obi-Wan and in the end, not only does he lose to Obi-Wan AGAIN, not only does Obi-Wan NOT get broken down into darkness, but Obi-Wan WALKS AWAY FROM HIM. Again. And this time it's not because Anakin is dying but because Obi-Wan is deciding that Anakin NO LONGER MATTERS TO HIM. Obi-Wan cannot forgive the person Anakin has chosen to become. Obi-Wan isn't going to waste his time and effort on Anakin anymore, he isn't going to waste his LIFE feeling guilty for the choices ANAKIN MADE anymore. He's cutting Anakin out of his life from now on and just... leaving him behind. And of course at the end, Palpatine tells him he's not allowed to hunt for Obi-Wan anymore at all. So Anakin ultimately gets NOTHING THAT HE WANTS in this story, the one thing that seems to mean something to him gets ripped away from him in more than one way, and I LOVE THAT.

I just wish we GOT more of those kinds of stories outside of this one show. Because I get people letting things slide during the clone wars era, most of his mistakes there are comparatively smaller, but uh. Genocide and mass enslavement aren't things that I think ANYONE should let slide and too many people are doing so in canon at this point, which is why I want more stories about the people who DON'T or CAN'T forgive him for what he's done. More Revas, please.

[winktalks-com]

NO because that tiny tiny shot of gojo's 6? year old self and the way he looked and the way he spoke means so much. "stop looking at me you weakling" was so serious. this kid is obviously not the 17 year old Satoru we know from hidden inventory. and the fact that there's nothing else (that we know of) that changed from this particular flashback to the time hidden inventory takes place in (EXCEPT him meeting Suguru) just serves to drive the point further that he only really acts like that because of Geto.

Children don't act so mature and if they do they don't magically evolve into carefree childish teens.

Cause we know for a fact from the day he was born gojo was just adored by his family. Like "On the day Gojo Satoru was born the balance of the world was altered" type stuff which I am sure they didn't shy away from saying to his face. And children don't have that concept of power. He likely didn't even understand what he was compared to in terms of strength. I mean i doubt those adults would want to talk about the details of cursed spirits with a kid.

And being told you're supposed to be the strongest can be so scary. I mean sure he already had it in him but did he feel it? I doubt it. People born a certain way can't comprehend life beyond their perception.

And then he joined jujutsu high which- we aren't even told why? Cause clans have the option to train their kids themselves homeschooling style. I'd think they'd wanna keep him as close as possible)

But anyway he joins and here comes this other guy who is just as strong as him who has a very very different outlook on life and who speaks about it so confidently and convincingly that gojo starts trusting him with his whole being.

Like "oh Suguru thinks this so it must be the answer" "Suguru thinks I'm right so that's all that matters" "Suguru thinks I'm wrong so I MUST prove to him that I'm right"

And even if they fought a lot Geto remained his moral compass and all of his opinions stood on the pillars of getos belief system even while directly opposing it.

In hidden inventory after Riko's death Satoru asks Geto if he should kill all of those people. And when the other disagrees he doesn't argue. Because Suguru is always right.

And when Geto defects and kills a bunch of non sorcerers his whole world crumbles because His firend has never been inconsistent or hypocritical before. Cause Geto is suPOSED to always be right. Like fuck you mean you talk about how sorcerers are born to protect regular people and then you go kill a bunch of those people you're supposedly meant to protect?

And sure he's angry. But his whole personality and morality is built around Geto. And he still thinks its the right way to think. So he keeps acting like that because in those 4 years they spent together he forgot how to care about his family's opinion. Because the only opinion that mattered was Geto's.

And if I was Gojo I'd be pretty fucking upset. Because sure its "do as I say not as I do" but Geto didn't make that choice only for himself. And how dare he even think he's wise enough to make that type of decision at 17? At any age. He didn't just choose to kill that whole village he chose every consequence of that action too. He chose to have an execution order placed on his head and he chose to kill his parents after that and he cHOSE to leave Gojo behind.

And that's fucked up like ok you made a mistake?? But don't keep making mistakes just so you don't have to admit it.

I hate them

[kimkhimhant]

honestly I think that the things Kim did were entirely within reason and understandable for his situation, even though he didn't handle it all in the best ways, and his actions hurt people and had consequences. like. I do think his morals are skewed (understandably) and he made mistakes. 

but I genuinely do not understand all the takes i see about him being morally reprehensible and deserving to suffer and grovel at the end of the day

he was raised in a mafia family to be a fighter, and he has watched his brothers suffer horrifically (khun with the kidnappings, kinn with tawan). We don’t even know anything about what he’s gone through personally! Who knows what other traumas he might have. So i think him investigating Porsche and Chay is a very reasonable response to the highly suspicious situation of Korn insisting on hiring Porsche despite his lack of experience etc etc, and to the additional suspicious situation of Chay showing up at the open house and having encyclopedic knowledge of his music.

Although his feelings for Chay before the falling out aren't extremely overt, they're very very much there and you can see them clearly in his expressions whenever he's with Chay or thinking about chay. yeah the "im hungry" was kinda shitty, but based on what canon implies, they weren't dating for long at all (there are polaroids and movie tickets that imply a few dates at most) and even if it weren't for the whole lying thing, for a kid who grew up the way he did, it probably would have been too early for him to say I love you anyway!

And then the breakup – he just witnessed Chay get kidnapped, witnessed tawan back from the dead and causing his brother even more pain and suffering, the bodyguard he was closest with died, and he could no longer just be wik & Kim to chay. The combination of all this, the reality of the suffering in this life, pushing Chay away (even if probably unnecessarily harshly) is a totally understandable response to the situation! And we've already seen that Kim is a person who tends to isolate himself.

When he realized that Chay wasn't able to leave this life (Namphueng being alive and part of the family, Porsche becoming minor family head), and when he realized that Chay was struggling & putting himself in dangerous situations, he tried to help, he tried to fit himself back into chay’s life to protect him and care for him. again, he didn't handle it perfectly. He kinda fucked that up. but. he's still a kid, and he's a kid who's had a very fucked up life and was definitely not able to learn healthy coping mechanisms and social skills (outside of the practiced charisma that is wik).

So yeah, he fucks up, and he gets angry when his (kinda wack) attempt

to reach out at the club goes south and Chay won't give him the time of day. 

But.

I think a lot of people overlook the facts that he is, 1. a kid (21/22! still in college!), 2. a kid with a lot of fucking trauma, 3. very isolated and lacking social connection and skills, and 4. Probably really fucking scared.

Like it's okay that he's not perfect and he fucks up! but almost all of his actions stem directly from fear, paranoia, and love (for his brothers, and later, for chay) and I think that is often looked past.

[somethinabouttwistedwonderland]

FLOYD LEECH HEADCANONS

semi in-depth Floyd Leech relationship headcanons

I'm a Floyd fangirl, so the first character I'm making headcanons for is him! However, this will definitely be a wild ride due to just how fucked up Floyd is in general, so bear with me here as we go through all the green, red, and even black flags that our beloved unhinged eel has <3

IMPORTANT INFORMATION! ⚠️ ⚠️ PLEASE READ:

Before we start, I'd like to say that this is a set of relationship headcanons for a VERY unhinged and deranged character, one who does what he wants whenever he wants, and has shown ZERO real connections that aren't made out of anything aside from a superficial interest. So be weary that these headcanons are very "dead dove: do not eat". These are made from a very basic character analysis of Floyd.

This is NOT yandere content. Floyd is NOT a yandere don't come at me with that shit lmao. Floyd is just not all there mentally. Rated Mature due to toxic relationship mentions.

Table of contents: Floyd Analysis, Courting portion, relationship portion, miscellaneous portion, fluff portion (because we need a break from the toxicity), other people portion, overall.

CONTENT WARNING(S): VERY toxic relationship. Floyd being Floyd. unaware manipulation, abuse, oh so very many red flags. Cycle of love and neglect, objectification of the reader. Pushing boundaries. threats. violence. Lack of any empathy from Ocavinelle, Floyd losing interest. Floyd is VERY silly /neg

—————————————

Character analysis portion

When thinking about how someone would be in a relationship, we first have to analyze their characteristics, and BOY. We have a lot to discuss regarding Floyd Leech.

Floyd is a character who does things on whims, barely commits to anything unless he thinks it'll be interesting, and doesn't think about the consequences to his actions, even if his actions hurt others.

As Azul never fails to mention, Jade and Floyd do not see him as a friend, but as someone interesting who they keep around, and who they can drop like a bad habit any time they ever feel bored of him.

Floyd's lack of regard for the people around him is something that affects them very much, as Floyd is sometimes even eager to see others suffer, saying it's quicker to break bones than threatening someone.

Floyd is a very smart character as well (when he wants to be, of course), however Floyd prefers to stick to violence and forcing his way through things if possible, rather than scheming and manipulating like his calmer (albeit just as unhinged) twin brother.

Basically, Floyd is a character who does whatever he wants, whenever he wants, whenever he feels like it.

Onto the "courting" portion; Floyd noticing someone and falling in love is, in all likelihood, probably very unlikely. However, Floyd's version of love is most likely different from our own, due to the way he thinks.

For Floyd, what he might mistake for "love" could be something else entirely, and this is a very bad thing for the object of his "affections." For him, he could see it as finding you interesting, looking for ways to annoy you or make you squirm.

Floyd will start his "romantic journey" by going straight for what he wants: You. Floyd immediately bothers you, asking you things about yourself, and giving you a nickname (assuming you're not Yuu).

Floyd's "interest" in you is a lot more invasive than a regular person's interest in someone they "like". Floyd takes his spot in your personal space, inquiring about you, trying to figure out what makes you so interesting in his strange eel mind.

Depending on the object of his affections, this "interest" in you could be many different things. It could simply be that he thinks you're incredibly attractive, or something you did that amused him, anyways, he wants you to keep entertaining him for a long time.

I personally think that Floyd is rather clueless when it comes to romance as it was never really something that interested him. However, now whenever he sees a couple in the street holding hands, or a couple making out in an alleyway, you're always the first person to come to mind.

I am of the opinion that Floyd isn't the type to be interested in romantic relationships, so this is honestly just a passing thing for him as most things are.

Onto the relationship portion: Floyd makes sure to do everything that interests him together with you. As Floyd is someone who doesn't care about how others feel (unless the way they feel interests him in some way), Floyd mostly ignores how you react.

He doesn't care if you don't want to be with him or not. You're his interest now, and he's never treated anyone like a person before, why would he start now? To him, you're nothing more than something that amuses him.

He's happy to see your reactions to how he treats you. The idea that he gets to act like a sweet lover interests him. So sometimes he'll cradle you in his arms and gently push your hair out of your face. As you start to feel comfortable in his arms. He immediately lets go, starting to get bored of you.

The cycle of love and neglect from Floyd definitely hurts you mentally. Depending on you, you might start to crave the affection he gives you when he expresses interest in you, you could be terrified for when his mood swings hit and he gets bored of you.

Threatening you and seeing you scared isn't something that Floyd is above doing. In fact, seeing the fear on your face is something he can't get enough of, and it sparks his interest in you even more.

Floyd either doesn't know you have boundaries, or just doesn't care. No matter what your boundaries are, he'll find a way to push them if he wants to.

He's very focused on his own interests, and not yours. If you advocate for your boundaries, Floyd will most likely get annoyed and threaten you. If you try to avoid him, then he'd try to bother you even more, after all, he does love the chase.

There's many ways you can react to Floyd's... actions, however, many of them lead to you getting hurt more than just mentally, so you have to be incredibly careful when dealing with a "lovestruck" Floyd.

As Floyd's "love" is just an intense interest in you, he sort of expects you to behave like another interest would. That is, like an object that sometimes behaves in funny ways. So whenever you do something that upsets him, he is quick to threaten you in order to make you shut up about whatever it is you're whining about now. Of course, if you're whining about something silly, he'll poke you and laugh.

He loves making you embarrassed in public, he thinks your red face is cute. He is very into PDA, and always pays attention to you when the rest of his surroundings are boring.

If you really do love him, then I'm sorry to say, but this relationship won't last. Sure, he could find you interesting for a few years, but eventually he'll get bored, and drop you like a bad habit.

Onto the miscellaneous portion:

Floyd often takes you to clothing stores, having you watch as he puts on a mini fashion show. He also enjoys putting you in cute clothes like a dress-up-doll.

Of course he squeezes you until you feel your ribs break. Of course he drags you down into the murky depths until you start to thrash around for air. Of course he force feeds you expired food to see how you react. Of course he bites you until you bleed. Of course he thinks it's hilarious when you try to run away from him.

A relationship with Floyd might be scary, or even uncomfortable at times, but one thing it will never be is boring.

Since Floyd takes you everywhere he goes, there are some fun moments, too. He teaches you how basic parkour moves, he takes you swimming, he goes out to dance with you. Any one of his interests, he's all too happy to share with you.

He doesn't think too much about the future, so if you bring it up, he says "Whatever happens, happens!" and brushes you off.

Onto the fluff portion; there aren't many "truly wholesome" moments when in a relationship with Floyd.

However, maybe one day Floyd will realize that... hey, he loves you, and yet, whenever he sees the romantic scenes on the screens, the lovers hate seeing each other cry. He'll think. And he'll think. Does he hate to see you upset? He thinks it's funny, but that's not what it's usually like. He'll reflect.

One day, he might see you get hurt, and get pissed at the one who did it. Afterwards, he might comfort you in his arms. But is it just him acting again? You don't know, but you can't bring yourself to care.

Mornings waking up next to Floyd can be cute. His sleeping face, his arms around you.

When he's in the mood to love you, you can bet that you've got yourself a very sweet and very tender boyfriend, even if it's all an act, a part of you thinks he might actually love you as he gently rubs your shoulders and kisses your forehead.

He likes to give you random gifts! A cool looking rock he found, a large stick that can be used for hiking or pretending you're on a journey, or a neato piece of trash.

His love of clothes extends to loving to see you in them, especially cool shoes. You and Floyd will try on high heels and stumble around. Depending on your skill in heels, he might laugh as you fall, or he'll be very impressed with your ability.

Onto the other people portion; The people around you often feel bad for you, asking how on earth you could get Floyd to treat you like that, etc

Azul is quite annoyed by Floyd's newfound toy, as Floyd spends less time taking "orders" from Azul and more time messing with the object of his "affections".

Azul feels bad for you, honestly. He knows how Floyd is, and by seeing how he treats you, Azul knows how awful it must be. However, he doesn't interfere, as he has no place for empathy, really.

Jade is quite amused that Floyd is so interested in you. Jade doesn't quite see it, but whatever makes Floyd happy.

Jade doesn't feel bad for you in the slightest, finding a sadistic delight in seeing Floyd terrorizing you. However, he tells you that he's there if you need him, letting you cry your feelings away, while he's right there, patting your shoulder. This, however, is just his sadistic way of seeing you cry. Jade has always been just as bad as his brother after all, if not worse.

OVERALL

Overall, Floyd isn't someone who takes interest in having close, sappy relationships with others, and treats his partner like he does everything else. He hangs around with them, spends time with them, and when in the mood to act like a good partner, he does. But if he loses all interest in you, expect to be dropped like a bad habit. Don't expect a future, and don't expect to be treated like anything other than a passing fad.

Anyways!! This post was on the very serious side, seeing as I brought up just some of the mental trauma one would go through in this kinda situation. I'm aware that many people think Floyd is a very very silly guy, and I am of the opinion that he is silly, but a lot of people neglect just how toxic his kind of behavior is, and I really wanted to bring out that side of the conversation without implying that he's a Yandere. Floyd strikes me as the type to just take someone along with him if he thinks they're funny, and this shows with how he and his brother interact with Azul, actually.

Despite the lack of anything really cute and fluffy here, I hope you enjoyed my take on one of the most interesting characters in Twisted Wonderland, and how they'd be in a relationship! I plan on making another one of these character analysis relationship headcanon posts soon (that's hopefully more healthy than this one.) so keep updated!

[androgynoussublimeangel]

One of the biggest bummers for me with Monkie Kid fandom is the unequal idealization of Wukong and villianization of Macaque. I think it downplays the incredibly deep and interesting dynamic that comes from people who have hurt each other but are learning and growing as individuals coming back into orbit of each other and relearning who they are to each other.

It also goes to say that while Lego Monkie Kid is derived from JTTW it can definitely stand on its own considering what they've modified or adapted to work better with what they were aiming for.

Objectively when the series begins Wukong is a better person but he wasn't when his life was more intertwined with Macaque.

In fact they're both pretty bad at the begining. And often even enabled each other to be worse.

Wukong made lots of rash decisions that even if he claims was for "us" was often motivated by selfish ideals for glory pushed by the brotherhood as he disregarded Macaques opinions and worries.

Whereas Macaque has always been focused on perceived slights, essentially victimizing himself more than he actually is and using this to justify his harmful behaviors. He often prods when he should be understanding or aloof when he should be sympathetic. He's quick to lash out because he's always on the defensive.

They both have done things wrong but I'm tired of the fandom always siding with Wukong when the idea is that they're BOTH in the wrong in different ways and most of the turmoil in their relationships stems from simple miscommunications that are escalated by the fact that neither had really faced their past (until season 4 obviously)

And most of the animosity they feel towards each other is leftover from a close relationship now in shambles and being forced back together in order to survive.

(Some people irl can't even handle being in the same room in a cordial setting with someone they aren't friends with anymore. Like come on not crazy that they both instinctivly become defensive. Not to mention we see that they often teased and bickered playfully so not odd to fall back into the pattern just with more animosity. )

We've been following Macaques slow redemption, his willingness to fight LBD despite not knowing if they'd succeed and could result in them all being destroyed. As well as his misguided attempts to mentor MK in his own emotional stunted way.

And Wukong himself has made his own major mistakes as a mentor as well that's like the entirety of the 3rd season but again he's had more character growth thus admitting his wrongs and reflecting on them comes much easier to him, out of the two Wukong is currently the more emotionally intelligent as odd as that sounds. He's more willing to face the reality of his actions than Macaque is but this aligns with their character types. Wukong often being blunt, straightforward and headstrong compared to Macaque who is hesitant and holds his cards close to his chest quick to hide his true intentions behind attitude and misdirection. Along with this Wukong is predictably bitter when trapped under the mountain especially when Macaque escaped the consequences which once again plays into his self-serving attitude but at the same time Macaque had always been hesitant about crossing the Jade Emperor and warned Wukong that in classic Wukong fashion, he wasn't thinking it through and considering the consequences.

(Side note I find it incredibly odd for people to not consider all of elements on both Wukongs and Macaques separate experiences. As well as the odd skew on Macaques motives during the Samadi fire arc, since his resurrection his one goal has been to escape and protect his second chance at life, stealing Wukongs power from MK is a measure to protect himself and its easier to trick MK than Wukong (this isnt to say its justified, hurting MK was wrong plain and simple because again Macaque is heavily flawed as well and hasn't had the time or guidance Wukong did to reflect and change cuz he was ya know, dead (but his death is another interesting conversation when considering the context of the original vs LMK which might play it off in a different way or have to avoid it altogether due to rating issues)and when he is forced to work with LBD once again his life is on the line, that's called coercion. AND he still fights a possessed Wukong at MK behest, despite the likely traumatic fear that would be triggered by fighting Wukong again and that LBD might not stop a possessed Wukong from killing him again. Doesn't mean what he did was right but if you consider from his perspective along with the fact that he died before he got to have his own "journey to the west" or journey of growth and self-reflection. We're seeing the Macaque that Wukong killed all those years ago. It makes understanding his motives a little easier.)

[suzannahnatters]

Trope Talk: Villain Romance

So, I was watching a villain romance cdrama again lately (GOODBYE MY PRINCESS) and it has been forcing me to think about what makes some villain romances work for me so well, and others…not so much.

First of all, a lot of my comments on romance at large, and on enemies-to-lovers as the broader trope to villain romance, apply here. For me, GOODBYE MY PRINCESS failed on a few different levels. It failed as a romance because the male lead so rarely, if ever, allowed himself to be vulnerable to the female lead that I couldn't believe either of them could genuinely be falling for each other. It failed as an enemies-to-lovers story because the female lead didn't feel like a match for the male lead in terms either of power or of morals: he was irredeemably awful and held all the power in the relationship, while she was unquenchably pure and naive, holding no power at all. But then, it also failed for me as a villain romance, and because I eat up villain romance with a spoon (WUTHERING HEIGHTS? THE LAST JEDI? LOVE BETWEEN FAIRY AND DEVIL? TILL THE END OF THE MOON? That ONE SCENE in RICHARD III? yess?) I've spent a lot of time thinking about different kinds of villain romance, how some are easier to "sell" to an audience than others - as a convincing HEA, I mean - and how each of them can and can't be made to work.

So far, I think a lot of it has to do with how the villain is built. First off, how does the villain present himself to the audience and other characters? Second, does the villain get a character arc, and is it for the better, or for the worse? Finally, does the villain have genuine feelings for the heroine, and does he achieve a happily ever after with her? Or, in other words: where does your villain come from, where is he going, and how does he get there?

There are a few different choices awaiting the author here, and some of them are, I believe, easier to sell an audience than others. Let's begin with the villain's character arc over the course of the story.

POSITIVE CHANGE VILLAIN This one is the classic: your villain love interest starts out bad, but gets better. See: Erik from THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA, Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in the STAR WARS sequels, Nux in MAD MAX: FURY ROAD, Dongfang Qingcang in LOVE BETWEEN FAIRY AND DEVIL, Thyme in F4: THAILAND.

Redemption arcs are honestly not easy to write, because they need to satisfy both justice and mercy; and authors, like everyone else, tend to want to prioritise one over the other. It's interesting that of the five examples of this trope I listed above, not one of the three the Western examples end in a HEA; two out of three equate redemption with death. Meanwhile, I could also note how the Asian examples pull their punches when it comes to facing the villain with the consequences of his actions, and these are some of the BEST examples.

Still, audiences can pull for a character who's clearly capable of learning from his mistakes, and we all want to inhabit a fantasy where a terrible man learns better and earns his happy ending. I've written this kind of villain romance a couple of times, notably with Vasily in my gaslamp books. Basically, if you plan to have a HEA as an endgame in your villain romance, a positive arc is the best way to make a longterm relationship convincing.

ANTIHERO WITH IMAGE PROBLEMS This one is a bit more complicated. The love interest starts out well and gets better, but along the way he struggles with a dark side and an unfortunate predilection for angry black clothing and eyeliner. He isn't so much as a villain, as a well-meaning antagonist desperately trying not to live up to his dark reputation. See: Tantai Jin from TILL THE END OF THE MOON, but also Galadriel Higgins from THE SCHOLOMANCE books by Naomi Novik, who is in a very similar predicament though not part of a villain romance.

This one is tricky to write, because there aren't a lot of ways a genuinely well-meaning person is going to convincingly pose as an existential threat to the universe. Both TTEOTM and the SCHOLOMANCE books pull it off by invoking the future, either through time travel or through prophecy: the antihero is going to become the Dark Lord/Lady and destroy the world. This makes them a target in the present, and gives them a threatening dark side to struggle against. In TTEOTM, Tantai Jin is torn between his vindictive impulses to revenge himself on those who have wronged him, and his natural longing for the love of others. In this case, it's not so much that he's a villain intrinsically, as that he plays that role in the heroine's head.

I've never written one of these, except as a stage in a positive change arc, but it's a really fun character type that I'd genuinely love to see more of.

NEGATIVE CHANGE HERO This is another classic: the hero who lives long enough to see himself become the villain. See: Anakin Skywalker from the STAR WARS prequels, Heathcliff from WUTHERING HEIGHTS, or Wang So from SCARLET HEART RYEO. If the Antihero With Image Problems withstands the temptation to become a villain, then this character succumbs with more or less struggle. He ususally also doesn't get the girl. In face, the heroine often doesn't survive this sort of story at all.

Audiences have less trouble with this kind of story, because it can come across as properly cautionary. "If you fall in love with someone who gets a villain arc, you will die, and it is probably your fault." Everyone is happy, except the characters. Personally, I think this is realistic, because I don't think a thorough-going villain CAN be a stable longterm relationship; but just once, instead of dying, I really would like to see the heroine nope out and go to live her life in peace and quiet, as happens in the wonderful Daisy Ridley OPHELIA film.

I've actually never written one of these, either, mostly because I've never been able to bring myself to write a tragedy. But I do love reading them.

UNREPENTANT VILLAIN Or, Bad Man With a Crush. This is another really common iteration of the trope, but it's usually played from the point of view of the male hero, and the heroine usually doesn't reciprocate the villain's interest in any way. The great exception to this, of course, comes in Shakespeare's RICHARD III, where the unrepentant villain convinces the widow of one of his murder victims to marry him because he's THAT GOOD. Watching Laurence Olivier in this role at 13 may have been a formative moment of my life. Other examples are thick on the ground: Frollo from THE HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE DAME, Scarpia from TOSCA, the Darkling in SHADOW & BONE. Heck, I've written at least one of these myself.

Again, audiences expect this kind of villain either not to have his feelings returned or, if they are, to see either the heroine or the villain die by the end. In fact, this villain is the sort most likely not to have genuinely romantic feelings for the heroine at all; it's usually simply lust. The only example I mentioned where the villain arguably does have more complicated feelings for the heroine than a mere appetite for sex and power, and where she is tempted to reciprocate, is the one written by a woman, SHADOW & BONE - because a female writer is going to treat her heroine as a more fully orbed person, and insist on male characters treating her the same way.

-

The second question to ask when writing a villain romance is: how does the villain present himself to others, including the audience? Again, there are a few options here, but in any case I think one of the most important ingredients, if you're going to make the audience care about the villain, is a sense that the villain COULD be a better person than he is.

SHEEP IN WOLF'S CLOTHING The villain projects a terrifying image, but deep down he has a heart of gold. Note that this is not about character arc (for instance, this describes both Tantai Jin, who is an antihero on a positive arc, and Wang So, who is a hero on a fall arc). Rather, it's about how other characters, and the audience, view the character throughout most of the story.

A Sheep in Wolf's Clothing is easier to "redeem" because half the work is done when you show that after all, the character is better than we thought, and doesn't need as much work to be redeemed. For this reason, it's a really good choice in any sort of villain romance, because you get someone who LOOKS bad but is in fact plausible as someone who IS capable of changing and learning.

Vasily from my Miss Dark series is definitely a sheep in wolf's clothing, which is extremely fun to write. Vasily's had a traumatic change of heart which has taken away his taste for blood, treachery, and power. His habits haven't quite caught up with his heart, yet, and his determination to hold onto a semblance of power and terror makes him desperate to playact as a villainous vampire prince even though he's none of those things any longer.

SHEEP IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING I was nearly not going to include this variant at all, because where's the villainy in that? But then I remembered Anakin Skywalker. Anakin has a dark side, like Tantai Jin, which he gives into on occasion, but the prophecy that he will bring balance to the Force seems to predict a bright future for him. And he genuinely is a well-meaning person, who only wants to protect the people he cares about. For most of the story, Anakin is a good person and an upstanding Jedi with a bright future. This only makes his eventual downfall more tragic.

While how the villain presents himself is not always linked to a particular arc, this one is, since it requires a genuine hero to begin with. As I mentioned above, this kind of fall usually spells death for the heroine. I think this particular villain romance tends to be underexplored, because the freaks who like villain romance aren't into the aesthetic of a genuinely good man being corrupted, while those who write the downfall arc usually aren't into the aesthetic of villain romance. Nobody has ever written a romance about the Macbeths, and this strikes me as a missed opportunity.

WOLF IN WOLF'S CLOTHING This villain is exactly as bad as he appears on the outside, but if he's lucky, big changes are coming for him. In LOVE BETWEEN FAIRY AND DEVIL, Dongfang Qingcang is about to have his cold dead heart magically melted. In FALLING FOR INNOCENCE, Kang Min-Ho is literally given a new one. As a Christian, I love seeing fantasy elements used to explain why the wolf in wolf's clothing is suddenly forced to trade a heart of stone for a heart of flesh, because in Christianity the only way this ever happens is through a literal miracle.

And I do think this kind of villain IS difficult to redeem for his HEA without some kind of miracle, because he's genuinely done some dreadful things, and he's determined not to repent for any of them. Kylo Ren from the STAR WARS sequels is a really excellent example of a Wolf in Wolf's Clothing: when Rey spits at him, "You're a monster!" he responds almost proudly, "Yes, I am." In a way, the Wolf in Wolf's Clothing's honesty is his one redeeming feature: he may be terrible in almost every way, but he never pretends to be a good man. This is something that the next option on the list lacks altogether.

WOLF IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING This villain looks like a good and upright person, but it's all a facade. In reality, he's conniving, ruthless, and manipulative, and whether he's a "hero" on a negative arc or a straight-up Unrepentant Villain, the story is about to unmask him as the bastard he is.

Western literature has a whole array of this type of character, and they're usually the smooth hypocrites of the canon: TOSCA's Scarpia, HUNCHBACK's Frollo, MEASURE FOR MEASURE's Angelo, KNIVES OUT's Ransom. There's just something particularly evil about someone who sees and experiences true goodness and sees it as his opportunity to mask his evil deeds, and that's why we recognise such people as irredeemable. This is why BLUEBEARD is one of the trickiest fairytales to retell, at least if you're interested in a HEA - because Bluebeard, unlike the Beast or Hades or any of the other dubious bridegrooms of fairytale literature, commits awful crimes while pretending to be an ordinary, upright businessman.

This is also where we find GOODBYE MY PRINCESS's Li Chengyin, who marries this with a corruption/fall arc. Very early on in the story, we see that although Chengyin has genuine feelings for the heroine, he's fully capable of betraying her and murdering her family for purely political motivations. At first, Chengyin is neither experienced nor hardened in evil, but he absolutely will betray anyone in his path if it will benefit his plans.

This sort of villain is particularly difficult to redeem, because he's someone who has approval and love already but chooses to destroy everyone around him anyway. He is also uniquely enraging, because we've all known people this terrible in real life - from high profile teachers and carers being caught in ongoing sexual predation, to that crumby ex-husband who traumatised your good friend. I don't think I've ever seen a character like this be convincingly redeemed, and while I think it COULD be done - I do have a Bluebeard retelling of my own up my sleeve - I do that, as with the Wolf in Wolf's Clothing, it would have to come with some kind of fantastical/miraculous explanation.

And in the end, let's face it, it's always most cathartic to see this sort of person get their comeuppance.

-

Third and finally, is your villain romance going to get a happily ever after? I'm one of those people who will get a lot of fun out of a romance that ends badly, like SCARLET HEART RYEO, or even something that isn't a romance at all, like RICHARD III and the ill-fated Anne Neville. But whatever you pick, I'm begging you, be very clear about whether the villain has genuine feelings for the heroine or not, and don't reward some horrible person who's never convincingly expressed care for another, with any kind of romantic validation.

HEA VARIATIONS Maybe your villain and heroine make a match of it. Most of the time this is because the villain undergoes a positive character arc to earn his happy ending, and I've got to say, this is a very sensible choice. I personally do not need to see an unrepentantly terrible person get any kind of longterm romantic relationship, either because he's trapped/deceived the heroine or because he's corrupted her to become as bad as himself; I honestly don't think that terrible people CAN have a successful longterm relationship. That said, I've written a relationship where the villain DOES make the love interest worse, but where ultimately the genuine love, empathy, and trust between them ultimately does drag both of them back to the light.

TRAGIC VARIATIONS There are a great many more options available here. The main thing I would say is that you have to give an ending that is justified by what comes before.

A common choice is to give the villain a positive arc culminating in a heroic death. I've seen this done well (FURY ROAD). I've seen it done terribly (RISE OF SKYWALKER). Personally I feel that unless the themes absolutely demand this, you should avoid it, because too often it comes across as the writers arbitrarily ridding themselves of a character they don't know what to do with.

Another common choice is to give the villain a negative arc culminating in the heroine/love interest's death. I've seen this done in ways I don't hate. In RICHARD III, Richard kills literally everyone he touches. In SCARLET HEART RYEO, death is a realistic result of the heroine's trauma and closes the door definitively on the villain's hopes for reconciliation; but it also returns her to her far better life in the future, so it becomes a glimmer of hope for her (though not quite enough). Too often, however, this choice carries with it sexist overtones. Death becomes the heroine's punishment for the crime of loving a bad man (or something else equally fatuous), while the villain is "punished" only by having to live without her.

What about a negative arc culminating in the villain's death? Well, I strongly disliked the choice made in SHADOW AND BONE, in which the heroine guts the villain while hissing "there is no redemption"; to me it was lacking in either tragic catharsis OR eucatastrophe. I think you CAN have a satisfying ending in which the heroine or somebody else kills the villain, but it needs to be an expression of catharsis or eucatastrophe, and we definitely need to feel that the villain is beyond saving - which, if you've made him a genuine romantic possibility, is often hard to feel.

I love the ending of WUTHERING HEIGHTS, in which the villain dies frustrated after realising that after all, cruelty and abuse DIDN'T have to turn him into a villain; he then reunites with the ghost of his equally terrible love interest. I also love the ending of OPHELIA, in which Ophelia, realising that Hamlet cannot be redeemed from his quest for vengeance, quietly nopes out and goes to live a happy life on her own. And then, there's the gold standard for bittersweet endings, THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA, in which the villain doesn't get the girl, but neither of them have to die, and her compassion for him causes him to go off and live a better life on his own. I think the thing all these have in common is that even though none of them end with the couple together, they afford the whole story a sense of hope: cycles of abuse are broken, some people get better than they deserve, and even those that don't are doomed by their own actions, rather than being killed off in a way that feels punitive or vindictive. And I feel that this is an essential ingredient of tragedy: that justice arises naturally out of the villain's own actions rather than being imposed by some righteous warrior.

PUTTING IT TOGETHER Some of these options are easier to sell the audience than others. For instance, a Wolf in Sheep's Clothing on an Unrepentant Villain arc is absolutely not good material for a HEA romance, while a Sheep in Wolf's Clothing on a Positive arc is probably your best bet (it's a classic for a reason). Others, like a Wolf in Wolf's Clothing on a positive arc, may require careful handling to ensure that the audience is happy to come along for the ride. Whatever you choose, however, it pays to be conscious of which tropes you're using, where the audience has seen them before, and what they expect to see happen to the characters that enact them. This doesn't mean that you can't defy audience expectations, of course; just that it might take a little more work to bring the audience along with you on the journey that you've planned, and that it might not be wise to pick all the worst possible options and expect the audience to embrace the character in question. (cough Li Chengyin cough).

[dear-evan-fansen]

People complain CONSTANTLY that Evan "doesn't face enough consequences for his actions". I've always thought this was a bad take for multiple reasons, the most obvious being that Evan didn't have much to lose to begin with, and still ended up losing the only things he DID have, since he ultimately drove his only two friends away. But mainly I think this argument is bad because it's criticizing one of the elements that makes this show special. Is there some grand fallout where the secret comes out and Evan's life publicly crumbles as a result of his actions? No. But why does there have to be?

The audience is capable of discerning right from wrong. They don't need to be TOLD what Evan did is wrong because that's blatantly obvious. The show shouldn't have to aggressively and explicitly condemn his actions in order for us to understand that.

There are plenty of other stories you can go to if you're looking for a morality tale. There are countless different pieces of media out there that will spoonfeed you the message "'do bad things and bad things will happen to you in return", if that's what you're interested in. But there aren't nearly enough stories that tell you that you can screw up or do something bad and still keep going. Keep living. And keep learning to be better. Like it or not, life doesn't stop when you make a bad decision. It doesn't stop when you hurt someone or lose someone or do something you regret. It keeps going, and you have to keep going too.

For people who see themselves in Evan, who don't feel they'll ever come to a place where they can forgive themselves for the mistakes they've made, that message is infinitely more helpful than another story about a character who brings about his own downfall for the sake of teaching the audience a lesson.

And if you came to watch this story about a kid whose intense suffering and loneliness lead him to make a terrible mistake, and your problem with it is that you wanted to see him suffer more, I think that says a lot more about you than it does about the show.

[kaiicedragon]

Just some more QSMP purgatory thoughts and symbolism going into the final 2 days (almost done guys!)

Purgatory being a place to repent for sins and mistakes made for sinners to be given the chance to go to Heaven. Something about the two remaining teams. One team refusing to let go of what happened at the beginning. The other team trying to extend an olive branch (despite the actions of some of their own) but not being trusted. How one team made a home base and the other team has struggled with having a place to stay.

How one team leader wants to win and the other team leader was prepared to sacrifice his team for Green to win if need be. With one leader being known as the Angel of Death and the other leader being the youngest on the server.

How Purgatory is sometimes described as having a cleansing fire for souls, with one team being spawned in the cold and having their name be 'soulfire'.

How the cursed team may have been decided in the Egg Wars. How Blue Team kept to their promise and didn't hurt any statue while Red Team broke the deal and destroyed Green Team's egg statue. How that may have sealed Team Soulfire's fate as the cursed team. They kept to the promise and didn't touch or hurt any egg statue, out of concern that they could possibly be tied to the actual eggs. Yet, the only team to not hurt them may be the only team that may potentially kill all of the eggs if they lose. How Tubbo wants to play fair, wanted to keep things tied to make the cursed team winning thing easier. How he's agreed to things to try and make peace despite his team not being 100% on board. How their lives aren't not more important than the eggs.

Team Bolas may be cursed by the environment, in the sense that they let it get to them. Seep into their minds and drag them away from the safety of the eggs. How Phil is their leader yet he has problems knowing what is real or not, whether or not he is dreaming. How narratively Day 1 may not have been that bad and just exaggerated by Team Bolas (meta wise this can be because many weren't roleplaying, and lore wise it could be the land getting into their head). How they tried to talk on Day 1 but got beaten down, and they began to bite back when multiple olive branches were extended, all because they grew paranoid. How they broke promises yet jump to conclusions about the others. How they just want to survive.

This doesn't mean that this is why a team may be cursed, but more of a potential narrative point as Purgatory is stated to be canon and its effects will have lingering and lasting consequences and results.

Also, please let there be consequences for Purgatory. Even if one egg dies, it has been months, please remind the parents that life is fleeting. Maybe even one of Pomme's 2 lives. If not kill them, have the eggs be scared of their parents on Team Bolas. Have Chayanne and Tallulah see Phil and see the person who destroyed a statue that represented their siblings. Have the eggs see Bolas and hear their cheers as the statue fell. Have Leo look at Roier and see someone who attacked the statue looking like her, not killing it but her fearing that at any point he will turn and drive his sword into her. Have the eggs be hurt and damaged from every blow that was done to their statues, scared of what their parents have become and what they could do to them. edit: just some general consequences from the top of my head, but not the main focus, as I feel a lot more of Team Soulfire's consequences would be tied more to character relationships, broken trust and lying even among themselves. Though that isn't to say that the eggs will react positively to them either.

[marshmallowprotection]

I know you have answered this before but I can't find the request. Someone once said that GE Saeran was "perfect" because he didn't have any flaws like Suit Saeran or Ray. But that's not true even though the game doesn't show it as much GE Saeran does have flaws and that's not a bad thing, it's something that can help him see the things he has to work on later now that he's free. For example, one of the things that worried me the most in his AE is that sacrificing himself for everyone and I understand why he does it, believe me I do, but hey! It's good to prioritize your own well-being now and later!!!

He is human, and that means he has flaws. It's not a bad thing to make mistakes or do the wrong thing sometimes. How else can we learn if we don't make mistakes? He's learned a lot from the mistakes he's made in the past and he's trying to do better today, but he's not infallible. He's going to do things that might hurt your feelings even if he didn't intend to d that. You could do the same thing to him. That's just a byproduct of being human!

We learn, we laugh, we hurt, we cry, we love, we hate, and we do everything you can think of beyond that!

Saeran isn't perfect.

But, you know what? He doesn't want to be perfect. He just wants to do the best he can. Sometimes, the best we can do may not be good enough, but what matters is that we try to do better. His growth now comes from the fact that he's willing to learn from his mistakes and what he's done wrong in his life.

Being willing to accept our actions and the consequences of them, good or bad, is a hallmark of a good person. We are capable of many kinds of things as humans. What matters is that we strive to do better than we did the day before, and... Saeran wants to do that more than anything. He may have made you cry before, but he wants to make a smile appear on your face today.

His tendency to be self-sacrificial is another part of who he is. It's not great to be willing to throw yourself on the wire for everyone every step of the way. But, it's a part of what makes him who he is, and it's okay to have a flaw that can also be beneficial. I see that exact trait as a double-edged sword.

Saeyoung and V share that trait with Saeran, you know! Saeyoung will throw everything away from for his brother. V will try to keep his promises even to his detriment and others. These traits aren't always a bad thing, but they can be, just as much as any action we commit is capable of being right or wrong.

There are times in life when we value somebody's ability to be self-sacrificial as a badge of honor. However, there are other times when it can be destructive to your life just as much as it can bring fulfillment. Saeran is human, just as much as Ray and Suit Saeran are human. He isn't perfect, but nobody's perfect.

I would never call him perfect, I would prefer to say he is someone who has had the opportunity to learn from his mistakes to be a better man, but he would never say he's the best man, because he knows he can always strive to do better. If you can accept you will never reach a state of perfection, that you are in a perpetual state of honest change as a human, you will be all the better for it.

This is one of those things he needs to work on. Talk to him about how it hurt you to see him throw his life away, and I am more than certain that he will be willing to listen to everything you have to say. He wants to communicate with you. He wants to be better with you, not just for you, or for himself, for the sake of everything! To be better is to accept that you can learn by talking and accepting what every choice you make has a reaction.

GE Saeran isn't perfect.

However, we love him because he's capable of accepting perfection isn't obtainable, happiness is.

[olderthannetfic]

Anon from the "quiet fanfic genre" here:

Thanks to those who admitted to love the kind of fics I was talking about, it's nice to know I was not the only one.

Unfortunately, there were no tentacles involved this time, but I don't doubt a talented writer could indeed include them in a fic while still managing to make it part of the "genre".

The reason I called it a genre has already been brought up in the replies, but I equated it to other fanfic genres such as Angst or Fluff that aren't bound to specific scenes or scenarios and rather deal with emotional responses on the reader.

The fic that prompted me to write the ask is called "Desperate Magic" by BeautifulFiction and it involves the protagonist finding that his love interest cannot be saved from his many battle wounds, and so, while he's unconscious and on the brink of death, he helps by doing the only thing he can: washing the blood from his skin and hair, and braiding it so he can, at the very least, pass away with the dignity he deserves.

There's not much action and the fic itself is not too long, for it would be hard to keep the atmosphere for chapters on end. It also has a very subdued emotional response as a consequence of the "inevitability" of the tragedy. It's sad, but not angsty. It's tender, but not fluffy. Bittersweet doesn't quite describe it cause by the time it ends there's no negative feelings nor is it necessarily "sweet" or "cute". It's...soft? Maybe? It might be exactly the reason you mentioned, the character studio aspect of it. I don't really know.

(oh, and how embarrassing it is to reread my first message and find a glaring spelling mistake! Please, pretend it's not there!)

--

Yeah, that makes sense. And yes, I had an idea of the sort of fic you meant, but this more specific example is a lot clearer.

To be perfectly honest, I think the real reason there isn't a more codified name for this type of mood is that it's harder to nail. "Angst" covers a wide range of levels of both angstiness and author competence. I think failed attempts at quiet melancholy don't read as quiet melancholy at all.

This mood turns up not only in quieter death fics like that but in a ton of art that's about nostalgia.

[liliallowed]

That demon was cute and funny and I kinda liked them at first but now they just suck. The hell is wrong with that psycho manipulating us and giving us the Reset? We gotta take them down, but can we figure out how? Maybe we could ask Sans how to get rid of them permanently! It could bring us closer and we could defeat them together and it will be so cool! We could be close! He won't kill us right... right?

you can certainly try. in fact your actions have little consequence. why dot we try and see?

you saw a familiar figure calmly approach you.

this was where you met him last time... you were shocked. you thought he was the reaper here to take your life.

...

despite the demon's advice you choose to reveal everything to him as quickly as you could.

he'd understand. after all this was your mistake to free them. you had to take responsibility.

the skeletons sockets go black for a moment but then his casual grin returns. he smiles at you.

"it's alright. sorry you had to go through that." he shrugged nonchalantly.

"aren't you... mad? I... I didn't mean to ruin things." you mutter feeling guilty.

"it's my fault for not explaining things properly to you. don't worry. it'll be fine." he chuckled.

he was... taking it better than you thought? maybe the demon was just lying to get you to be on their side.

"how many times have we had this conversation?"

he asked softly. was he really as violent as the demon thought? he still hasn't DONE anything to you... other than kidnapping... and giving you a lot of delicious free food...

"it's the first"you answer honestly.

/bad move shouldn't have said that idiot~/

his smile softens further as his shoulders relax. "good. good."

he slowly pulled out the red strings from around your soul, untangling them.

/you'll regret this./

you mentally give the voice a middle finger as it disappeared from your mind.

"okay. I think we're done here." the skeleton sighs as he tries to walk away with the soul.

"wait uh... are we friends?" you ask to make sure.

"sure. just try not to tell anyone you're seeing ghosts and skeletons. they'll think you're crazy."

and you never saw them again...

months years... decades... it was a fleeting memory.

and yet? the reset button floated ominously Infront of you when you had died from a heart attack.

...

you wanted to see him again...

was this why they gave the reset to you? becathey knew they'd be caught?

well tough luck you weren't going to use it.

you'd die normally and let time progress natural-

END

OF

STORY.

🩶

💔

you wake up again in the same bed and the same clothes...

holy fuck. you literally can't die... even if you choose not to use it it'll WILL bring you back anyway...

you need to tell sans. he'll know l. he'd understand!

[mournful-villains]

one thing i think is funny is that, when you really think about it, a lot of heroes in movies aren't really heroes, but simply people with influence (usually someone who has superpowers or advanced tech and weapons) who effed up really bad, and then the movie is them having to work to fix their mistake. but they get called a "hero" because their mistake had world-ending, life-threatening consequences for civilians, and then they fight to make sure that the civilians don't suffer for their mess up.

for example. in megamind, who does the true villain wind up being? titan. and titan wouldn't exist if megamind hadn't created him. however, because megamind fought and defeated titan, he's seen as a hero, when really the problem wouldn't have existed if not for him.

in spiderman: far from home, mysterio becomes a villain because he was screwed over by an avenger. so now another avenger has to fight him to stop him from hurting people. but if it weren't for the "superheroes," mysterio wouldn't be a threat in the first place

in shazam: fury of the gods, literally the whole movie exists because he broke some sacred staff, and now the world is in danger because his actions wound up releasing some ancient gods into the human world.

don't get me wrong, i love these movies (and all the others i simply didn't feel like listing rn) but it's just funny to me to think about. these heroes get praised for "saving the day" but it's the heroes' fault the day even needs saving

[barid-bel-medar]

Do you think the concept of Dadzawa has ruined a lot of peoples ability to recognize the core problems with his character and just writing him normally without his Dadzawa “qualities”? Outside of experience writers and people who actually read the manga/watch the anime, it feels like they’re obligated to write Dadzawa and all of the things that come along with it without understanding how stories work with their theme. I like stories like S&S where Aizawa receives consequences for his problems and I don’t mind Dadzawa if it’s built up without the severe OOC-ness.

Yeah. It's kinda similar to the issue of people mistaking in some cases that when writing the character with canon characterization it's not bashing, it's literally how the character acts in canon rather than fanon. Btw I am well aware the Sticks and Stones verse can be viewed a leaning more on the bashing side. That's an unfortunate side effect of basically using him as a plot device in the first story and now figuring out how to...not walk it back, but make his actions more explainable).

Dadzawa isn't canon. He's in general got a pretty minimal relationship with 1-A. He's their homeroom teacher. That's it. The only kids we really see him having a deeper relationship are with Eri (traumatized six year old who I'm 80% sure he has legal custody over) and Shinso (mentee he personally decided to take on).

Dadzawa can be well done if you build it up properly. Build up specifically *why* he is having this sort of relationship with the students. As is clear, since it's still not his canon characterization, the events of the kids' school year aren't enough. He's not the type of character who gets emotionally close to people quickly or willing to get that emotionally close to that many people. One of his best friend's died when they were teens, and it's pretty clear that he never got over it (now that we know it happened I mean).

But I do think an issue in general in fandom is you do run into writers questioning themselves with the 'I'm seeing this so often, did I misunderstand something?' question. You see a lot of a specific characterization? You see it so many different fics? Then you must be misunderstanding. Often as not you aren't incorrect in the characterization, it's just something got common.

[owlf45]

Hi owl, did you ever have problem with making your character made mistakes? Or maybe made them do something wrong? Because i currently have this problem i like Izuku too much and i just couldn't let him made mistakes eventhough i know its part of growing up, but i dont know why i just can't do it? I dont know whats wrong with me,

Oh yeah absolutely. I was dealing with this all the time. Especially a couple years ago, I was a perfectionist little shit who cringed in second-hand embarrassment whenever a character made a really stupid mistake/decision. I'm not going to assume your age but I will say it gets easier when you're older to embrace that shit.

I'm going to put a TL;DR with advice up here because I can never shut the fuck up and write a normal amount of words to anything. So here:

TL;DR: If the scene where the mistake is made is too hard to write, write the aftermath. (The mistake is important, but the fallout is usually more so). Using humor/minimizing the amount of time you spend on the consequences of an action can help. Characters can make mistakes without the scene being embarrassing. If you hate the embarrassment of a stupid decision/mistake, rewrite it so it's not making you feel yucky about your writing. Realize that mistakes are not inherently moral/representative of your character being a shithead, and mistakes are sometimes unavoidable (AKA, Izuku broke the laws saving Iida from Stain. A mistake, but not one that was truly in his control). Shit happens. Shit happens! Shit happens. Mistakes happen, it doesn't have to be a big deal.

There's a lot of conflict in the original series where the characters do the right thing, but they get in trouble because they don't listen to the rules. I find that you can still create conflict and acknowledge that characters shouldn't be the ones doing x, y, z (there's a very popular trope where Izuku and his classmates' adolescence comes into play—AKA, they're children, they should leave certain shit to the adults/professionals, even when the pros aren't enough).

It also helps if a character you're really attached to genuinely feels like there's no other option in a situation. Especially with Izuku, he doesn't necessarily try to break the rules. He just values the lives and safety of others over himself and over the law. So yeah, he's going to save a kid he sees is injured and break like, ten laws in the process and probably 3 bones, but that doesn't mean he's bad or wrong, he just doesn't ask for permission because there's not enough time. (Think the Stain fight). It's a mistake, but maybe it's an unavoidable one.

Also, mistakes are not necessarily moral. They don't have to be catastrophic or a reflection of being a bad person. When writing your scene, just remember: shit happens.

If writing the mistake itself is too hard, instead, skip it. Just write the aftermath.

Like. Okay. Example time. Izuku wasn't communicating well with Katsuki on the field because he got frustrated, and the previous night he had a dream about them as kids promising to be hero partners and it got him too deep in his head. And because Izuku wasn't communicating well, because he was out of it, someone got hurt, and the villain escaped. That's a hard scene to write. So I wouldn't write that. I would write the scene after that. Like this:

Izuku's in the locker room, sitting with his head bowed towards his knees. He hasn't moved an inch since he landed there an hour ago. His ears are still ringing from the villain's quirk. No one's dead. But it was close. It hasn't been that close in years.

A locker slams beside his head. Izuku startles.

"So are you going to explain what the hell that was about?" Katsuki says. Oh yeah. He's pissed. Of course he's pissed. Katsuki was yelling on-scene and Izuku had reached up and turned the earpiece off because his head was spinning. He didn't hear that the villain had a partner until it was too late.

And then after this snippet ^^^, they duke it out because of course they do.

At the end of the day, characters make mistakes because they're human, but as a writing tool, they make mistakes to reveal a deeper problem. Izuku doesn't communicate with Katsuki some days because they haven't worked out all the issues in their relationship. Izuku tries to go vigilante as a 12-year-old because he wants to help people more than he cares about his own life. Izuku doesn't argue with his teachers when they tell him off, he just nods his head and goes right back on his self-destructive bullshit because he didn't have a very constructive relationship with his teachers in middle school.

Or maybe a character says the wrong thing to a person who needs help, because they don't know enough about the person/situation. Or maybe a character is an immature child and fumbles a very important conversation with a Very Important Adult. Shit happens. It doesn't have to be a big deal to your characters. Also don't make yourself feel yucky over your writing just because you're trying to shoehorn in some kind of mistake that doesn't progress the plot or character arc.