#but i do care about sam winchester
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what happens when you make supernatural without sam 😎
#i actually don't care about the j2 divorce. at all#but i do care about sam winchester#good post op#spn shitposting
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Sam, getting to know Dean in season 1.
#was there even anything he knew about dean. like...#i wonder if it's because dean has changed a lot during the four years they were apart#or if sam was too young/immature to actually see dean past his exterior before stanford#probably a mix of both. but it's so interesting because the idea he had of him doesn't have anything to do with the actual dean!!#sam winchester#dean winchester#supernatural#spn season 1#corespnedit#.anna#also psst this is why it's dumb to call dean a creep just because sam once implied that dean would sleep with minors#like sam at times tends to see him as worse than he is!#like when he can't believe dean actually loved cassie or cares about saving a kid's life#so - don't trust too much what he says about him#in particular because all of the women dean actually slept with were roughly the same age as him or older#(aside from the fact that sam was probably joking that time)
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Dean should have been the new new Bobby… I’ll kill myself
#also running at auto shop/junkyard like… the cover is already built in#but I mean he is constantly being shown taking care of kids and clicking with them even if he claims Sam is better at talking..#I think he is way too fucked up to intentionally father a child let alone find someone to want to do that with..#but I do think he would take in kids who have lost people… Hunter next gen… the boys home episode is so fucking sad..#he is The Caretaker even when he tries to avoid it… teaches..#how to drive… how to shoot.. how to play poker and win..#Garth semi retires anyway… though I love Garth…#I’m not even at the finale but getting so mad about it#I get if he didn’t make it to his 80s but at least 50s… maybe… i just want him to know his nephew even for a moment..#again… I don’t think he would father kids but I think they’d be named after Bobby and Charlie if were following Harry Potter rules…#dean winchester#supernatural
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honestly as much as I hate when Jack is dumbed down to the ‘destiel baby/lovechild’ (especially for domestic au reasons) I won’t pretend the actual textual aspect of it isn’t there yknow….like andrew dabb took an established trio, the Team Free Will and just stuck another guy in there and said “fuck you they have a kid now and this the cooler version of the established team.” if that happened in any other show I think it’d be the subject of at least twelve THE FALL OF THIS FRANCHISE type video essays on YouTube
#I think what helps is that supernatural is the show it is where shit can happen and it can be rationalized with anything#because if you did this in another show obviously the kid is just gonna be a shoehorned-in baby that nobody cares about#but here they can just say ‘yea jacks magically a teenager now bc he’s half angel and can just do that’ and bam problem solved#cal.txt#I had a point here but I don’t think it was communicated properly#but I don’t care to keep going#spn#supernatural#jack kline#dean winchester#sam winchester#tfw2.0#destiel#tfw2.0 my beloveds . my detesteds#my little rats
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i can't stop thinking about the first episode of season 6, when sam tries to convince dean to come with him, to come back to hunting. he says "it's just better with you around, that's all." it's an interesting line because sam is soulless, obviously. and even though he doesn't understand the details yet, he knows something's wrong with him.
"it's better with you around" he says, citing dean's compassion and care for others as the reason why. and how interesting is that? sam's working with plenty of other hunters who still have their souls—they're all more than capable of caring about the people they save. but sam needs dean specifically. he knows he's missing something, and he sees dean and recognizes that something in him. even cold and calculating and unrelentingly logical, sam recognizes that dean, alone, can "complete" him, give something back to him that he's supposed to have.
in episode 8 he tells dean he "needs his help." he doesn't elaborate; he never explains what he means by that. he has a whole family of hunters who'd be willing and able to help him, but still he needs dean. even without his soul, his hyperrational mind knows he needs him.
soulless sam isn't capable of caring about dean. but he doesn't need to care to know they need to be together, no matter what—to know dean is good for him, dean completes him, dean needs to be there for him.
it's like a sick reversal of season 1. sam drags dean back into this life because he can't keep going without him. because he needs him. because when you think about it logically, and sam has no other choice, there was never any other option for them.
#supernatural#wincest#i mean i'm absolutely looking at this through wincest-colored lenses but this isn't even a romantic observation#and i think that makes it so much worse#every time soulless sam gives an indication that he needs dean in his life even when he's incapable of caring about him. that's so fucked u#like what the fuck do you mean sam's dependence on dean isn't even irrational. that it's so normal to him that it's completely logical#to need him. that sam needs dean the way humans need air to breathe: an unalterable fact of nature and reality#'there are also things about it i remember that i... let's just say i think i should probably go back to being him'#What The Fuck Do You Mean By That Sammy#having a soul hurts but he should 'probably' go back to having one#he says in a conversation about how he knows he should care about dean but doesn't#like there's something inside him screaming for dean. and it's trapped and trying to claw its way out#he needs to care about dean no matter what the cost is. he needs to love him again#it's unnatural and wrong for him to exist without loving his brother. is that what you're saying. is that it#i just can't stop thinking about soulless sam. sorry. what's wrong with him seriously#besides not having a soul#.txt#sam#the winchester gospel#spn posting#6.01#6.08#spn6
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sometimes i think about how much of a waste it was to just have cas ignoring sam’s prayers in s6 instead of him actually not being able to hear him bc he was soulless and his prayers didn’t work
#there should have been more side effects of literally not having a soul other than sam just being a sociopath#the whole point of the season was how souls themselves are power right#so its not a leap to asume any supernatural anything a human is able to do or conjure would be powered by the soul#so why not make it that the soul is what powers prayers#or powers exorcisms and summonings and rites#imagine if sam couldnt make holy water anymore#or exorcise demons which he doesnt care about bc hed just use the knife anyway#but it would make things difficult for him#just this added hassle of having to buy holy water and needing the cambels to do rites for him that he just cant#i know cas ignores him for guilt reasons but imagine if that first prayer from dean is how he realises he brought sam back soulless#maybe he just thought sam was ignoring him and had gone on to live the normal life he always wanted#then that guilt of thinking he saved him just to realise how badly he fucked up along with the guilt of working with crowley??#huge missed opportunity#coming out of my cage and ive been doing just fine.txt#carry on my wayward son#sam winchester#castiel#dean winchester#destiel#supernatural#spn
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i am not anti sam but i sometimes find myself hating sam because some samgirls are super into bio/gender essentialism whether or not they realize it. sam is a woman and dean is a man and sam is the victim and dean is his abuser like what show are you watching?
#as much as we all like to have fun these are two cis men characters who have roles to play in the narrative they don’t escape#they are both being abused. we find this out *fully* in s14#but it’s always been present. this is the abuse sam and dean winchester show#but some of y’all don’t actually understand abuse! you think abuse is just being mean and yelling#‘sam is a woman because his autonomy is taken away’ your idea of womanhood is fucked up and you should unpack that#if you compare sam to a woman because he’s been SA’d then you are WEIRD. they are both men canonically getting SAd????#like yes dean has some weird stuff about his own gender that he needs to unpack but it’s part of a mask?? like if u genuinely#believe that he seriously 100% believes this stuff then you don’t know his character at all#and yes their relationship is toxic but if you think for one second that there’s a genuine power imbalance then you’re sorely mistaken#dean’s entire identity is based around taking care of sam. sam can do wrong but not enough to be truly held accountable#it doesn’t matter what he does. dean will always protect him and be there and do whatever it takes to save him. he will always forgive him#and sam knows this and uses it to his advantage. he repeatedly goes behind dean’s back and avoids the communication he says is so important#he blames dean for shit that isn’t his fault because he’s there#and no he may not fight dean on stuff but he can. he often doesn’t because he doesn’t want to!#they enable each other and they don’t grow because they can’t because there’s always something else BECAUSE THEY’RE BOTH BEING ABUSED BY GOD#they’re not allowed to take a break. they’re not allowed to slow down or stop or rethink it’s always the end of the world#so yes some of y’all annoy me with the ‘i wish dean was nicer in the midst of his trauma’#shit or saying that therapy fixes everything stuff or whatever#and the fact that so many of y’all use that to treat sam like some fragile white woman who can’t#have an opinion without her husband’s permission is WEIRD like your gender stuff is weird#and just repacked essentialism onto them. idc if you’re trans. unpack that shit cuz your meta is full#of rad fem friendly or adjacent shit if you refuse to talk about gender without using abuse as an argument#because that does not hold up in canon of these two FICTIONAL MEN!!! or in the real world#(edit: most of the stuff i see is by cis women but im saying ‘idc if ur trans’ bc it’s not exclusive to them)#supernatural#sam winchester#dean winchester#wank adjacent#maybe just straight up#fandom wank
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new rule where you can't use the sam winchester tag if you're gonna say some dumb shit
#how do we feel about that#sure whatever no being stupid about other characters ig#I don't care about them#but only Good and Correct takes should be allowed in the sam tag#sam winchester#supernatural#spn
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the best part of supernatural is that it was on air for 15 years and it generates millions from fan conventions years after the finale and the general public has never fucking heard of it
#thinking about that jackles late night interview where he tries to name drop supernatural and not a soul claps#like so many people just do not even know anything about this insane tv show that was on for 15 years!!!#they don’t care at all about destiel or jivorce!!! incredible!!!#like my family has never seen a single episode. they could not tell you the plot or any of the characters names#0 cultural impact to them and i think that’s beautiful#supernatural#spn#dean winchester#castiel#destiel#jackles#sam winchester#jivorce
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find it so interesting that in 1x03 dead in the water sam is so shocked by dean being such a sweetheart with kids. some people in this fandom (naming no names..) frame this like ‘stupid sam who doesn’t know dean at all and doesn’t even remember that dean basically raised him🙄🙄’……….. but that makes 0 sense. isn’t it more likely instead that sam just doesn’t remember dean being that nice to him as a kid😭
#this post was originally ‘i hate when deangirls do this-‘ but i decided to word it like less of a hater❤️peace and love#spn20rewatch#oliver talks#spn#anyway. like of course dean was incredibly sweet sometimes to young sam and loved him more than anything but i’m sure he was also a total#dick…#and especially s1 sam - to who his childhood is MUCH more recent and raw and real than late-seasons sam who does the same idealisation dean#does going on about how growing up dean always protected him which we know factually isn’t 100% true -#probably has more memories of dean being a dick growing up#anyway of course there’s also just the fact that. dean is really good with kids sometimes but he isn’t necessarily always……..in 1x03 and#with ben he really sees himself in both the kids. cause he’s capable of great empathy! but if he doesn’t identify with the kid he has no#real empathy with them and he doesn’t care so much… hence jack#dean winchester
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wait explain to me the destiel hatred i’m curious what abt it angers u that doesn’t apply to the other two ships
great question! the answer would unfortunately require 3 hours and a powerpoint presentation, so i will try to do a brief summary:
a ship sucking only ever has about 25% to do with the ship itself. destiel is bad in the sense that i think dean winchester is an annoying character that gets treated with kiddie gloves by the narrative, which makes him irritating to see on screen, because i personally dislike it when "men are angry and abusive because they just love too strongly, and don't know how to express it :(" is played straight as a character's primary internal conflict. especially over 15 seasons. it's boring, he's boring, and 35 year old men shouldn't be going to colleges trying to figure out which freshman girls are legal or not. hate him.
however the real sin of destiel, beyond the fact that dean winchester and i have beef that will only ever resolve when i get to reincarnate as the rusty nail that kills him, is that the fans are so so so fucking annoying. like yes the narrative frames dean as a golden boy who can either do no wrong, or "well, i guess he did wrong there, but what about how tortured he is :(" but good god. at least the show isn't trying to convince me that destiel is some groundbreaking lifechanging love story, complete with "omg this moment" montages where they romanticize scenes that feature dean either insulting, threatening, or humiliating cas. like this entire show (post season 5) is dean chronically either infantillizing and attempting to keep cas under his control, or holding him up as the only person he can rely on, thus giving cas expectations that are impossible to fulfill.
and don't get me wrong! people can like a shitty person and a fucked up ship. that's basically everything i enjoy on here. but at least like. acknowledge it. aldfkjalka. and if you're gonna like a shitty person and a fucked up ship, at least write about it in an interesting way. 90% of fic and posts written about destiel aren't even about destiel as presented in canon, they're about two generic men with generic personalities who suffer from the world's most generic tropey problems. cookie cutter ass basic relationship. the high school au of ships. boring.
#like johnlock is boring and moffat makes all his characters suck ass but whatever. sherlock will never be as bad as dean so i don't care#wincest's key flaw is that it's incest. which does make me uncomfortable to read! i don't care for it!#but once again. disliking a ship only has 25% to do with the ship itself.#i don't see wincest shippers telling me that wincest is groundbreaking queer cinema so at worst it's just a ship i prefer not to see#people mention destiel and i'm forced to ask:#'do you actually find the ship compelling or is jackles just a tall man with green eyes. answer quickly.'#while they shout about how sam is useless and shouldn't be in the show and how everything would be better if every character just did#as dean said and stopped disagreeing with him#like the absolute dissonance of people hating john winchester and then claiming dean is a good person. lol. lmao even.#anti destiel#destiel critical#<- trying to cover my bases here. this is all quite mean i realize#what you have to understand is that dean is my number 2 least favorite character of all time#this is as nice as i can get. there are drafts of this post where i'm meaner.
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like the thing is. Sam's canon relationships and actions were censored in the story of his life that exists in the spn universe. so any argument about another character being queer-coded that isn't on this level is nothing to me
#did they realize they were doing this when they were doing it? I do not know and frankly I don't care.#this is all I'm thinking about today I guess!#queer sam winchester
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Honestly I do not beef with how The Winchesters handled a lot of things (Generally because we all know it’s out of love or protectiveness and usually desperation to save one another or the world) but the one beef I really have with them over the entirety of the series was how casually they told Rowena about Crowley’s death. Forget about Rowena and Crowley’s history for a second. First of all, Dean saying he killed himself to save them so casually to her massively undercut the weight of what he gave up for them and the world, not to mention how much he’d grown. Second of all, they’re saying this to his mother. Even if she and Crowley hated each other, you think they would have said it like that telling it to anyone else’s mother? Hell no. Sam saves it slightly when he corrects himself in using the name she gave him and shows more empathy than Dean by far, but they still treat this like it’s a casual conversation about his bravery when they have literally shaken her reality as she knows it.
She’s had to lose her child for the second time in her life with this loss undoubtedly being permanent, and the one time she absolutely deserved their decency as a human being, she didn’t get it. Granted, she probably didn’t expect it from them either way, but if it had been me I would have thrown that fucking whiskey glass at them. This is the last of her family, her only son who sacrificed himself for them and to try and seal the devil in an alternate reality to help save the world, and it’s no big deal, tell her he died and get on with the hunt for them? And then to make the assumption that she would have been proud of him? Watching that scene for the first time I legitimately had to scream into a pillow. To tell her about his death like that and then assume how she would feel about it being a sacrifice????? Honestly I don’t know how she kept it together without blowing up on them.
Don’t get me wrong, I love those boys and everything they stand for, and the growth the event sparked in her, but that was an absolute failure of compassion on their part when she deserved it and to this day I cannot watch that scene without raging for her. She wasn’t a good mother by any stretch of the imagination, but she was his mother, and deserved to be treated as such with the news of her son’s death instead of hearing them talk about it as though it were just another day on the job when he sacrificed everything and she lost her son. I’m still mad about it, and I’m going to be mad about it forever. Rowena deserved better from them on that, period.
#I have been mad about this for years and I will still be mad about it years later#Yeah I know they’re desensitized to death at this point but I DON’T CARE I AM UPSET ABOUT THIS#Rowena deserved better than that#She was his mother and regardless of how she felt about him she deserved to be respected#no compassion for her??? Do better boys#I’m pissed Crowley died regardless but this especially grinds my gears#rowena macleod#fergus macleod#crowley#crowley supernatural#sam winchester#dean winchester#supernatural#spn#spn fandom
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is there a reason you don't ship them besides them being brothers? because if you'd ship them if they weren't brothers, i've got some bad news for ya
i hate sam
#what's insane about THIS is that it feels like you were about to try to explain to me i do ship them#which is. what#anti wincest#anti sam winchester#i guess#i think we have a reading comprehension problem.#i am Fully aware they're insane and codependent. you have to be if you watch the show#i just. don't ship them. or like sam. is everyone on the same page now#and to be clear. i don't care if you do. that ain't got shit to do with me#that post was about wincest folk claiming people said they're a normal sibling relationship#i promise you bitches are NOT saying that
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Gimme be honest fellas I can't stop thinking about the parallel of Lucifer loving God so much and God cast him away and fuccijf Sam and Dean like it drives me crazy. I hate these bitches so much they've ruined my life I have never thought about Cain and Abel but guess what folks! I AM THINKING ABOUT THOSE BROTHERS BEVAUSE OF THESE STUPID FUCKING TWINK ASS FAGS!!!!! Sam and Dean die maybe but don't god im in shambles
#diseasy speaky#sam winchester#dean winchester#spn#supernatural#because why do they consume all of my brain#i need to eat food i feel light headed but also i meed to scream in both of their faces bevause why on god green earth are they like that#too many parallels I'm constantly seeing equal signs#double limed bitchen#fucking#...#sam and dean#dean and sam#i dont care they both need to become omnipotent beings and them explode#seriously the parallels#god amd lucifer#cain and abel#whats next??? jesus and judas fucking probably with these sick sons of bitches#im losing my mind chat#chat help me i am losing it all to these atupid wincest fucks#i feel crazy i need to be locked up in a 20 level security prison with norhing bit lile one toilet amd a pillow padded cell spoon fed theoug#a fuckinf tube and j get one visitor oh my god who is it whos visiting me. boom ita dean winchester and he tortures me by talking about his#baby brother and his puppy dog eyes thay you cant say no to but while hes speaking im thrashing around and foaming at the mouth because lem#lemme out of here please free me tlfrom this hell i just want to leave
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Sam and Castiel don't really talk about when they've hugged, held hands, they've just don't it. I can't help but think that if they ever kissed, it would be the same treatment.
Which leaves room for miscommunication, or just joy.
There's plenty of directions it can go with miscommunication, and angst. Overthinking and not talking can always lead broken hearts.
Or, just like any other show of affection, it doesn't need to be talked about because they know where they stand with each other. It just gets added into their relationship and that's that.
Either way, interesting to think about.
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Sastiel tag list:
@karategirl80 @sugaraddictarchangels @thekidwantscoffeeblack @huntressandlioness1 @ladylilithprime @meep-the-froggy @thequeenofsastiel @wendibird @avalonsilver
(If you want to be added to the tag list let me know!)
#I like the idea that they know they have each other's back and even if they ever accidentally overstep that's not going to change#They do communicate - but mostly like I want you to care about yourself - type of communication#Physical touch isn't something they typically talk about#sam winchester#castiel#sastiel#samstiel
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