#but agamemnon did not win this fight

[sigmaelxgr]

Kindof an old wip this one too, used to fix in my head the relationship between Charybde and his father, head of the clan and main Captain, Agamemnon.

More lore below v

In between, I changed a few aspects;

- Agamemnon is a Leviathan, this terrifying breed of Maormer that are half-beast in demeanor. He his extremely large, robust and lethal, but he has a very wise and kind demeanor to his people.

- Due to his very old age, Agamemnon acts with his clan like all of them are his children. It is, in fact, half-true; he has 36 of them, equal in daughters and sons. Being ~800yrs old some of those 36 children have their own lineage now.

- Charybde is the last, the dearliest of them. Born of true love instead of necessity (females pick their males when wanted and needed), Charybde has a special place in his father's heart, so dear he chose to never have an other spawn if it's not with his adored wife, Cérulée. She left, chosen by Orgnum himself to be part of his crew, and Agamemnon respected this decision. Charybde shall be the last.

- Due to his position as both Captain and simple male, Agamemnon usually has few but kind interactions with his spawns. The clan organizes to raise children all together - except for Charybde, that Agamemnon raised partly himself.

- Charybde being half-blood with such a strong and powerful breed, he grows fast, looks intimidating although he's still a child... and many, many expect of him things he's scared he could never atteign.

- Charybde is a sweet person with his kind, and he admires his father for the calm, the cleverness he shows at all time. It would be easy to figure this monster of a maormer to be prompt to rampage, but Agamemnon's taste for violence is as developped as his taste for subtility. With so many spawns, parenting became a second nature.

- Agamemnon is at first a war machine that grew terrifying by how responsabilities shaped in him such an ambivalent temper. Foes fear him and his crew, where each mer answers as one and respect is absolute for the Captain. The Captain is loyal to his mers, careful, just, but shows barely no pity for foes that do not respect their own men first.

- Charybde his a snake-caller by birth. Something that had disappeared in the Torve-Augure clan - the last being his father. Being a snake-caller means you share a natural strong bond with those forces of nature. Agamemnon has a twin snake brother called Adale, a forever hungered beast so colossal it has to eat whales. Charybde has one with a much smaller snake called Scyla, a sea viper, which he loves as his twin sister. Their bond gives him magical surges and snake aptitudes like molting his skin.

- Agamemnon has been to war for long centuries. The last assault on Sunhold gave him a large scar that his snake powers never truely absorbed. He's slowly dying, Adale being tortured by the slow decay of his twin brother and soulmate. Adale's specie is not supposed to survive this long, they keep growing as they feed and their appetite fits their length. Without Agamemnon raiding isles and going on front, Adale lacks food, his nature of a predator becomes a danger for maormer themselves. Charybde is expected to commune with Adale, but Adale is obsessed by its hunger.

[mydnyteraven]

First Sight

Argos sent fifty ships when Agamemnon sent out the call for aid for his brother’s war. Helen had been stolen from her house, and all the kings of Achea were to band together to bring her home.

Diomedes had not sworn the oath, he’d only been a boy, fresh from the siege against thebes, and barely able to reach his wine cup at the feast table, but Sthenelus, Diomedes’ brother-in-arms had sworn it, and war was what Diomedes did best.

“You will fight for Achea, and win glory for me,” Athena had said, and Diomedes had agreed. There was really nothing else to do *but* agree.

So it was, 50 ships flying the colors of Argos sailed to Aulis where Agamemnon’s army gathered, each carrying a full compliment of strong, able men.

Odysseus didn’t look like a king, Diomedes thought when the Ithacan fleet finally joined the ships anchored in the bay. Though the man’s clothing was finely made and his cloak was richly dyed, his hair was unkempt, his skin was grey and his face was drawn. His eyes were sunken into his skull like a death’s-head. He looked nearly as old as Nestor, walking with stooped shoulders as he and his closest commanders entered the main tent where Agamemnon held his council. But his eyes shone with cunning, and with some hidden emotion Diomedes could not read.

Rumors filled the camp when the king arrived.

“Odysseus, son of Laertes,” the men around him said. “Laertes was an Argonaut.”

“Half the kings’ fathers were Argonauts, that’s not special. Besides, I heard that Laertes wasn’t his father, but Sysiphus, the man who cheated death.”

“That would suit him, sly fox that he is, tried to dodge the draft.”

“I heard he’d gone mad.”

“No, that was a ruse, to trick Agamemnon. Palamedes called his bluff though. Odysseus is brilliant…”

Diomedes had heard enough. He’d looked on the map to see where this Cephalonian fleet was coming from, and found the clump of islands so far west they were practically in uncharted territory, and at the heart of it was a tiny island, so small Diomedes could hardly make out the label as “Ithaca.” He could hardly believe a man of such reknown hailed from such a backwater. *This* was the man who had orchestrated the oath? The man whose plans had brought them all here?

“I have mentored him as I have mentored you,” Athena explained.

Diomedes got a better look at king Odysseus as he left Agamemnon’s tent, flanked by his men, and realized that he had overestimated his age.

Odysseus was not as old as Nestor, perhaps he was only a decade older than Diomedes, at most, but he bore the signs of a man who had not slept in days, which had given him the grey pallor, and the circles beneath his eyes had overtaken them. Now that they were out of sight of the main tent, and the rest of the army had gone about their business, Diomedes saw the king lean heavily on his man’s shoulder, going from looking like an old man to practically a child, the picture of innocence.

When the broad-shouldered man supporting the king shot Diomedes a glare, Dio simply saluted and strode away. This was Diomedes' domain, the domain of the soldier. What did he care about the opinion of a draft dodger?

[v3suvia]

On Diomedes of Argos.

Typically, when people think about their favorite heroes of the Trojan siege, they think of the likes of Achilles, or Odysseus, or even Agamemnon (or if you’re based, Hector.) And while these are all valid to whatever extent— because let’s be real, no one is choosing favorites based on who has the purest moral standpoint— they’re not exactly remembered for the noblest of reasons.

Achilles spends half of the Iliad inside his tent as a sulky burrito, and the other half slaughtering Trojans and crying over the consequences of his own actions. Odysseus is a chronic liar, and Agamemnon is Agamemnon. But at the end of the day, they’re still remembered (for better or for worse, really.)

Though, on the topic of Homeric heroes, I feel there is one who is often overlooked despite achieving great feats over the course of the epic; Diomedes of Argos. (Note: arguably the most metal of the Achaean heroes at Troy.) So, let’s rant talk about him!

Diomedes was one of the key players in Homer’s Iliad— a recount of the last year of the Trojan siege. Being summoned to fight under oath, Diomedes headed his fleet of 80 ships to Ilium. As well as having a whole chapter dedicated to how kickass he was [read more about that whole thing here], the king of Argos was also a master strategist, and extremely noble— not just in his war efforts.

For example, there are multiple points in the Iliad where he checks the leader of the Trojan expedition, Agamemnon, calling him out on his cowardice or for otherwise being an inadequate leader, [Book 9; ‘Agamemnon, I will begin by taking issue with you over your proposal… do you really believe the Greeks are the cowards and weaklings you say they are? If you for one, have set your heart on getting away, then go.’] [‘Zeus has granted you many things… He gave you the sceptre of power and the honour that comes with it, but he did not give you courage— and courage is the secret of authority.]

And one instance where he truces with the Trojan hero, Glaucus— both of them exchanging armors (on an active battlefield, btw) to honor the fact that their grandfathers had been allies, [Book 6; ‘So let us avoid each other’s spears... And let us exchange our armor so that everyone will know our grandfather’s friendship has made friends of us.’]

He is also one of the only soldiers in the war who avoids committing hubris in the entire epic, which is probably the most telling of all his virtuous traits.

Diomedes also has a proverb named after him! ‘Diomedean Necessity/Diomedean Compulsion', which basically means when someone does something for the greater good (despite the reluctance of the person in question.)

This is taken from the myth of Odysseus and Diomedes taking the wooden statue of Athena— dubbed the Palladium— from Ilium. During this heist, Odysseus tries to stab Diomedes in the back to steal the acclaim of taking the Palladium for himself.

Rather than punishing Odysseus on account of betraying his ally for personal gain, Diomedes ties him up and drags him back to camp instead, because he knew the Greeks couldn’t win the war without Odysseus’ wisdom.

Anyway, why the rant? Sure, I could sit here and convince you that he’s the coolest Greek hero, but what would I be trying to accomplish in doing so? Well, it’s simply because while every other Homeric hero is recognized and represented in modern media, Diomedes isn’t.

He wasn’t even mentioned once in Troy (2004), the film adaptation of the Iliad! Despite him being the focus of multiple chapters in the book, as well as playing a big role in the Achaean army’s over-all victory.

I’m sick of everyone (and by that, I mean most modern media) depicting him as though he was just some dude™ in the Iliad when he was actually (from a mildly biased standpoint) one of the best of the Achaeans at Troy.

TLDR; Diomedes of Argos = Based. He solos ur favs (probably. He almost killed Ajax the greater at Patroclus’ funeral games 💀)Put him in more movies/shows/games so me and the other two Diomedes fans can be happy.

[johaerys-writes]

I got u fam. Achilles was known to ransom captives rather than kill. Why? If he went to troy for glory, then why was he not out there killing left and right? Do you think that deep down it was against his nature and he was just “stalling”? What exactly was his plan to achieve glory? TSoA in a way implies Achilles did a lot of “stalling” to have more time with Patroclus, but I want to hear your take on the Iliad.

Hello, thank you for this ask! You raise a few different questions so let me answer them one by one.

Why does Achilles ransom captives rather than kill? What was his plan to achieve glory? In Book 1, Achilles explains exactly why he went to Troy, and his attitude towards the Trojans in general. This is what he says to Agamemnon at the agora:

For it was not on account of Trojans warriors I came to wage battle here, since to me they are blameless— never yet have they driven off my cattle, or my horses, nor ever in Phthia, where the rich earth breeds warriors, have they destroyed my harvest, since there is much between us, both shadowy mountains and clashing sea. But we followed you, O great shameless one, for your pleasure, to win recompense for Menelaos and for you, dog-face, from the Trojans; none of this do you pause to consider or care for.

Achilles doesn't have anything personal against the Trojans. He didn't come to Troy for the singular purpose of slaughtering them and their families, nor does he seem to revel in that violence, even though he also says that of all the Achaeans he is the one that conducts 'the greater part of furious war', as the strongest among them. He takes pride in his skill but he isn't bloodthirsty. He came to Troy as much for honour (i.e. winning recompense for the Atreides and restoring Hellas' honour as a whole, which is how the war was framed), as for glory. Therefore, helping Agamemnon win his war and bringing Helen back to Menelaus would have been Achilles' 'plan to achieve glory' if you want to call it that. I know that the take of Achilles being obsessed with his own glory and doing everything in his power to make sure he gets as much of it as he can is quite popular, but I believe that his reasons for fighting in the war are much more multi-faceted than that. And it's also something that he very eloquently explains throughout the Iliad as well.

Later on, in Book 21, when Lykaon (one of Priam's sons who had been sold by Achilles to slavery and managed to find his way back home) implores Achilles to spare him once more, Achilles tells him that he used to spare the Trojans because it is what his heart chose once, but that is no more. And then he kills him—which comes to show us that brutally slaughtering the Trojans he encounters isn't like him at all, and it is not what others expect of him.

As to whether it is in his nature or not, I really can't say. I do think that, as I said earlier, Achilles as a character isn't bloodthirsty or violent for the sake of being violent, he does not kill needlessly even when he does have that choice—we only see him slaughtering like that after Patroclus' death, which is essentially the breakdown of his character. But I believe it also has to do with his upbringing: in a previous ask I mentioned that Euripides in his Iphigenia at Aulis has Agamemnon explain to Menelaus (and the audience) that Chiron raised Achilles to be honourable and to stay away from wickedness. Achilles himself says that Chiron taught him to keep a single heart (i.e. to be steadfast and keep true to his words and actions), to be respectful of the gods and those he chooses to follow (the Atreides in this case) and do honour to them with his spear, unless they lead him or the people astray. That doesn't sound like someone who kills people left and right, nor like someone obsessed with glory no matter what is required to achieve it. And this is a portrayal that is encountered in other works of antiquity as well. Which tells me that this is the way Achilles was intended to be perceived: stubborn and hotheaded, but at the same time honourable, law abiding and very rigid in his moral code leader and warrior.

2. Was Achilles stalling? That is a question that does not really have a straightforward answer imo. Miller chooses to have Achilles stall so he can have more time with Patroclus, but the truth is that in the Iliad we have no evidence of that. Even the extent to which Achilles knew of the prophecy isn't conclusive: in Book 1, he already knows that he will never be leaving Troy and that he'll die there, but it is only in Book 18 that Thetis mentions that Achilles' death will come soon after Hector's. It is not clear in that exchange, at least to me, whether Achilles hears of it for the first time or if he has known it all along. So we can't really know whether he was delaying his own death, nor if he did it for the sake of Patroclus. I believe that anything we say on this topic is pure speculation.

As to why the war took as long as it did: there is no straightforward answer to this either. Perhaps the armies were evenly matched for the most part. Perhaps Troy's walls were just that strong. Perhaps it is the result of bad leadership: as it is hinted a few times in the Iliad, Achilles would get into arguments with Agamemnon and other leaders, presumably because he disagreed with their ways of doings things, which could mean that Agamemnon was just, well, an incompetent leader whose decisions caused the war to go on longer and longer. Perhaps it is a combination of all of the above. For all we know, Achilles, as the extremely straightforward and honourable person he is, wanted to do his best to make sure the Atreides win their war so they can all go back home—and he has already planned and prepared for his death in that case, as he tells Patroclus before he leaves to fight Hector that he expects him to come back safe from the fighting and take his son to Phthia to meet his grandfather and his clansmen after Achilles is gone.

That doesn't sound like someone who fears or stalls his death, but as someone who has prepared for it even if it saddens him. Besides, Achilles' greatest descriptor, 'swift-footed', does not imply a person who would be stalling when it comes to anything, rather a person that sees what he has to do and simply does it; although whether he was ever entirely sold on Agamemnon's and Menelaus' war is also debatable, if you ask me.

I hope I answered your questions!

[teapottery]

Reading The Iliad (Books 1 - 6)

For anyone stumbling on this post / my blog, I’m currently reading The Iliad for the first time as part of a challenge I gave myself and I’m going to be sharing my thoughts about it here since it’s a physical copy and I don’t want to write in books :’)

As a little bit of background, I originally wanted to read The Song of Achilles but the mixed reviews scared me—it makes sense to read the source material before going into the retelling so I can make as accurate a judgement myself, right? So that’s what I’m doing. Now. Getting into it:

⟢ Initial first reaction: We are opening with an argument which is always a good sign for things to come. I don’t think I’m going to like Agamemnon too much but we’ll see.

⟢ Having lost this argument, Achilles goes to his mom which is … very endearing to me. I love how attentive Thetis is to Achilles. This little moment is sweet :)

⟢ And! She agrees to help him! ⟢ “Then, with a deep groan, Achilles answered,” is killing me for some reason. I’m getting teenager vibes from him. As a general aside, I do wonder how old these characters are. Anyway we are at the point where the main (?) character does not show up for the foreseeable future. So let’s see what everyone else is doing ~

⟢ As it turns out, everything is getting worst. ⟢ Hector chastising Paris into getting his act together in front of everyone surprises me but not as much as he fact that Paris is very receptive and respectful to him about it. I wonder when the thought of ‘taking Helen back to Troy might have been a bad idea after all,’ hit. We may never know. ⟢ Which brings me to another point: Why isn’t Helen going back / why won’t Priam have her returned home?

⟢ In other news, I desperately need Paris to focus on the ongoing war outside his door. I beg …….

⟢ Speaking of ongoing war, seeing the difference in personalities between the brothers (Agamemnon and Menelaus) is so interesting to read. Also, maybe it’s a stress thing (?) but snapping at Odysseus like that was so uncalled for lmao, what in the world 😭

⟢ General side note, but I like how nobody in this story is … good. There’s not really a “side” it feels like you should be cheering for, and while I know how it ends / who wins, this telling of it feels human. The little details about background characters and the heavy metaphors and similes add to that in a way that feels very natural.

⟢ I am very fond of Hector though.

⟢ Book of all time. Diomedes vs. Everyone and Their Mother. If I had to pick a favorite character so far I don’t know if it would be Diomedes or Hector.

⟢ I know given the period and culture that turning tail and running would be dishonorable but I really, really need for Pandarus to get out of their stat.

⟢ Diomedes is quickly rising the ranks of favorite character so far but I’m a bit confused—here he’s trying to get to Aeneas with Apollo in the middle (?) so he wouldn’t technically be breaking what Athena asked of him (not to go after any gods except for Aphrodite.) But it also sounds like Apollo is implying that … Diomedes is challenging him? Did he not intervene first? Is this going to backfire somehow—is Apollo going to have it out for him now?

⟢ PLEASE the minute he tries to catch his breath he has to go take on Ares?? Free him 😭

⟢ It feels like Diomedes keeps catching the short end of the stick. First when Agamemnon was mouthing off, then a few seconds before that above conversation Athena was questioning his bravery….What is going on here. #FreeDiomedes

⟢ The conversation between Hector and Andromache is so important to me. But this little line spoken over his son is the saddest thing I’ve read so far. To be a better man than he is … but in the future he imagines for his son, there’s still fighting. Nobody is winning in the long run, are they?

Final notes:

⟢ Where is Achilles, this is getting ridiculous.

⟢ What happened to Book Ten?? Diomedes and Odysseus go under cover, what??? I love a little side story, but my copy doesn’t have that :(

7 - 12 Next … I am terrified. Sick. Crying. Please tell me Diomedes lives. Please …

[ilions-end]

love chewing some more on the dispute over achilles' arms. so in the posthomerica:

ajax is definitely the man responsible for protecting both achilles' corpse and his armour. odysseus appears later and helps fight a path back to camp

achilles' armour DOESN'T EVEN FIT ODYSSEUS. aND it's too heavy for him to wear comfortably. it fits ajax tho!

odysseus got injured and he chafes at not being able to compete in any of the funeral games for achilles. he feels he has something to prove (AND he earned sympathy points for getting injured during the corpse retrieval)

nestor foresees that whoever DOESN'T get the arms will become an enemy to the acheans, so he presents it almost like a question of damage reduction: between the strongest man in the army and the cleverest, who has the potential to hurt them more? which can they least afford to lose?

menelaus is DISTRAUGHT at ajax' suicide and states outright that odysseus never deserved to win

odysseus publicly apologizes (!) and says he hadn't realized that the arms meant far more to ajax than they ever did to him, and that he'd gladly have campaigned for ajax to recieve them if he'd known (bc quintus is big on reconciliation and no one holding grudges)

agamemnon swears to tecmessa that as long as he or teucer lives, she will never lack freedom or protection. which just tickles me because HOW can he pledge teucer to it just like that? agamemnon you are a sceptered king and currently the head honcho of all the other kings! teucer is an illegitimate archer who cannot even ever be legally considered an adult citizen, AND he just lost his only means of protection too. give the man a BREAK aggie

[mademoiselle-red]

So I had a thought today: Patroclus’ tragedy is that he isn’t Odysseus. Hear me out. This is gonna be a long and meandering story. So I was thinking about that battered old picture book adaptation of The Iliad I’d received as a child, and how at the time, I was very into “trickster” characters who achieve their goals through some kind of cleverness and get away with it. My favorite character through the first part of the book was Paris because he wins over Helen by getting Aphrodite to make her fall in love with him (yes, I know better now, but I was 9 years old at the time lol). But then I realized he was actually stupid, so I dropped him. No one really piqued my interest until Patroclus showed up and put on his friend’s armor and bluffed his way through the enemy lines. I was really rooting for him to win! It was brilliant. But then the gods intervened and gave the victory to Hector. Boo. I dropped him, Patroclus —he didn’t get away with his trick, and that made him immediately less interesting to 9 year old me. I did feel a vague sense of unfairness at the fact that he didn’t fail because his plan wasn’t clever enough, but because he didn’t have a god on his side. And, I didn’t care much for his friend Achilles since he was strong because he was strong, not because he was clever.

I was also at the time, very into track and field races, which were co-ed at my elementary school, and I always managed to do pretty well in the longer races against boys who normally ran faster than me because I knew how to manage my stamina and they didn’t. Anyhow, I ended up latching onto Agamemnon, because the ending of the picture-book focused on him, and he ended up killed by his wife, and thus not clever enough to get away with it, which made him a total loser in the eyes of my former self. But then, a few years later, I read The Odyssey in my 9th grade English class, and I finally found the character of my heart, Odysseus. He is the clever trickster who does “get away with it”, over and over again, and I loved it. Odysseus is not as strong as Achilles or politically powerful as Agamemnon, but he is clever, and he outlives them all. I could never get enough of this kind of story: the clever youngest brother wins the fortune, the clever hero defeats the stupid knights and marries the princess.

Real life didn’t quite work out that way. Like Patroclus’ bluff, my advantage in strategy and stamina was short-lasting. As we began to hit puberty, my body fat to muscle ratio caught up with me, the boys got even faster, and the school races were now segregated by sex. But by then, I was already losing interest in the sport.

And now as an adult, I’ve found new appreciation for the tragedy of Patroclus. It is the tragedy of the almost-good-enough, the almost-victory. He was more clever than Achilles, cleverer than Hector, and he could have won, had he been able to fight that battle on his own terms, bypass Hector and make it over the walls of Troy, had the gods not thrown him down from the walls and forced him to fight Hector face to face. But he isn’t Odysseus, and Hector isn’t the Cyclops. But he could have been Odysseus, who always won by not fighting fair, perhaps in another universe, where Lady Athena smiled upon him and chose him as her favorite.

Patroclus was among the best of the warriors, but not the best. He was clever, but not the cleverest. His tragedy is perhaps the tragedy of the average person, as strong and clever as an ordinary hardworking warrior would be, but not extraordinary, not blessed by the gods, forced to share the world with those few who are.

[classicslesbianopinions]

Ancient Woman Thunderdome 2023

Round 5 (SEMIFINAL) Match 1: Clytemnestra vs. Atalanta!

The rules: Vote based on who would win in a fight, NOT who you like more. Consider factors such as physical prowess, intelligence or cunning, and magical ability.

If the character has multiple non-godly forms, consider the one you believe to be more powerful. If the character is a goddess for a portion of their life, please only consider their mortal or non-godly form.

The fighters:

Fighter: Clytemnestra Source(s): Aeschylus's Oresteia, Sophocles' Electra, Euripides' Electra Bio: Clytemnestra is known for being Helen's sister, Agamemnon's wife, and for murdering her husband immediately after his triumphant return from the Trojan War, having waited ten years to get her revenge on him for sacrificing their daughter, Iphigenia, to Artemis.

Fighter: Atalanta Source(s): Apollodorus's Library, Ovid's Metamorphoses, various other mythological sources Bio: Atalanta was a huntress associated with Artemis. She was a virgin who lived in the wilderness, and at one point killed two centaurs who tried to rape her. She may or may not have sailed and fought with the Argonauts, and defeated Peleus in a wrestling match at Pelias's funeral games. When Artemis sent a boar to Calydon to punish the king for not sacrificing to her, Atalanta joined the hunt and drew first blood. Later, her father found her and tried to get her to marry. Atalanta, knowing she was faster than just about anyone, said she would marry anyone who could beat her in a footrace, but if the suitor lost, he would be killed. Many men were killed, until Hippomenes prayed to Aphrodite and received three golden apples, which he threw to the side during the race to distract her. She did marry him, and, after she bore his child, they were both turned into lions in retaliation for having sex in a sacred area.

[greatest-greek-games]

Alright, several people have now submitted Agamemnon, and at least a few of them did it out of a legitimate desire to see him win. I may still draw him getting bodied by the long list of people who wanted to fight him, but please know I do it out of love.

At present, there's still a lot of popular enemies that haven't been submitted! Depending on the size of the poll, they'll probably be subbed in as first-round fights, though some characters will end up with only one enemy.

[pjstafford]

Why I still hate the Iliad.

I just finished a reread of the Iliad. Why? It has been a few years. It is considered a landmark work of literature in Western civilization and is a major influencer on modern literature. When I last read it I was in my early twenties. I believed I just wasn't smart enough to comprehend its greatness and it was one of those books I would like more when I was older and wiser. If I didn't like it, the fault must lie within me. Now I'm older and wiser and I can truly say that no matter what the experts think, I have very good reason to hate the Iliad and it is not because I'm not smart enough to comprehend its greatness.

It is considered great because it deals with concepts of morality and mortality and the heroism of men who sacrificed their lives in battles to be immortalized in songs and stories after death.

I found no heroes in the story. Why are they fighting? For the great beauty of Helen. She will end up with whichever side of the two men she has been married to side wins. She has no choice in the matter. In fact, everything about this tale is based on the fact that women are "prizes" to be captured and made into sex slaves. Why did Agamemnon take Briseis from Achilles? It was because he had to give up his battle prize so he took the battle prize that had been given to Achilles. Achilles really loved Briseis, maybe, but he still took her in battle. Apparently, Briseis was not as beautiful as Helen because Achilles didn't go to war with Agamemnon. instead, he sulked in his ship unwilling to fight and even the promise of twenty of the most beautiful women of Troy once the battle was won did not tempt him. Eventually, he did fight on the side of Agamemnon, but not until many fellow countrymen died in the interim. No heroes here.

I realize that it is a historical fact that women were property and typically I say we shouldn't judge literature too harshly based on what we don't like about history. I don't want all of our analysis of literature to be feminist or racial theory although I think feminist and racial theory have a place in literary studies (but not as primary analysis). Still, if we removed the reason for the battles, then it's a story of endless battles so that men can die to be heroes. Don't get me wrong. Dying in battle for a noble cause is heroic, but throughout the story, people are asking the question - why are we dying for this? Yet, I disagree with literary experts who say it shows the hardship of war. Yes, war is hard, but this story romanticizes battle. In fact, it invented the idealized version of war. Also, there are a lot of damn battles in this story.

I'm not saying no one should read it. It is historic. I do want to reread James Joyce's Ulysses now and I want to read The Silence of the Girls which is told from the perspective of Briseis and was published in 2022. I guess I just think maybe we should relegate it to a lesser role in our current storytelling. Perhaps it should be taught in literature graduate school classes. Let's give way to allow more modern stories and perspectives in high school and college. Mostly, though, I just think it is ok to hate it and I didn't really know that in my teens or early twenties. I guess I just want to give permission to all people of that age who are reading the "classics" to say No, I truly hate this without thinking that means you are illiterate or stupid or shouldn't study literature or write your own stories.

In terms of influencing our current culture, I think the repercussions of considering women as property and idealizing battles continue on within us. Modern stories that address those in the context of a better way or the fallacy of those truths are still relevant.

I hate the Iliad. Its the last time I will read it.

[thatpyroblogs]

I really love this idea. I also have way too many thoughts on it so I'm going to put them under a readmore.

I can see Athena winning by convincing Paris by making a great case that just taking Helen won't end well for him. But if he picks her, she will give him a great war general who can help him obtain Helen without worry of repercussion. Her argument is convincing enough for him to pick her.

Personally, I also like the idea that Athena would erase Odysseus's memories when she takes him to Troy. Don't have to worry about your new war general trying to escape if he thinks he's willingly came to your city (without Penelope, Telemachus or his parents there isn't much incentive to stay the ruler of a tiny island when you can be a famous general of a great city instead). Plus Athena makes the mistake of thinking Penelope won't be able to amass the help she would need to get Odysseus back.

Paris uses Odysseus to help him work towards the thing he really wants, Helen. Thus Odysseus would begin take out the suitors who swore the oath and would come to Menelaus's aid if they were to kidnap Helen. Just imagine spymaster Odysseus plotting the assassinations of Menelaus's potential allies to slowly but surely get Paris closer to his goal of taking Helen as his wife.

Penelope would learn of her husband's fate through a vision from Hera (who would act to Penelope as Athena acted for Odysseus in the Iliad). I'd imagine Hera would not only be unhappy about Athena winning, but also because she tore apart a happy marriage. Hera would encourage Penelope to go to Agamemnon and Menelaus to gather support and warn them of what Paris was plotting. Hera might even work some divine magic in order to convince the brothers that what Penelope says is true.

The tricky part for this story that still needs hashing out is figuring out what allies are still alive and which of those alive would be easily convinced to join the war effort. The ties of some of the suitors to the Argonauts might be a good option to explore there. I've been using this map to kind of plot out who would most likely be dead by who is the closest to Troy and thus the easiest to kill off first. Though rumors of suitors dying off could be a way that some of the other suitors are convinced to join the fight against Troy.

After figuring out who is alive for the fight would also help determine what bits of the original story might still happen (albeit with changes given Penelope might encounter issues Odysseus did not). I'm thinking Penelope might go the route of disguising herself as a man, with the help of Hera, so that she can fight on the front lines. Agamemnon and Menelaus would know the truth.

Another change I can see happening is Diomedes, and thus by extension his comrades like Sthenelus and Euryalus, starting out as helping the Trojans, because Athena tells him to and I could also see Athena neglecting to mention that Paris has been having Odysseus take out suitors. Once Diomedes figures out that Athena has messed with Odysseus's head, and that Paris is having suitors killed off, I can see him switching sides and becoming an ally for Penelope. This would give her an ally who has access to the inside of Troy.

There's also great potential for Odysseus to have moments where he thinks something is wrong with his memories. Imagine him watching Hector and Andromache just being a loving couple and feeling like he's missing something important. Imagine the birth of Astyanax and Odysseus once again feeling like he should be remembering something important.

This is again just what came to my mind when you suggested Athena winning that apple. I'd really like to write this story, but I also know it would take ages to write out and man that whole war bit is going to require a lot of reading, rereading, and notetaking/marking of my copy of the Iliad.

Odysseus of Troy au

A friend of mine misspoke and said ‘Odysseus of Troy’ instead of ‘Ithaca’. 

And thus, this au was born:

What if Paris had chosen Athena in the Goddess’s beauty contest to receive her offer of wisdom and battle tactics?

Instead of giving these qualities to him directly she has him kidnap Odysseus as an advisor.

Who would go:

Penelope would organise for the forces of Ithaca to travel to Troy under Eurylochus to retrieve her husband. I also imagine that Agamemnon and Menelaus would bring some forces as a favour to Penelope (they have family connections to her through Clytemnestra and Helen). Achilles and the myrmidons might still show up for glory, despite not having personal stakes. Overall there are way fewer people going to Troy as Odysseus is not Helen. 

The gods’ favour:

Assuming the Trojans refuse to hand Odysseus over in diplomatic talks, they go to war. 

Athena favours the Trojans in this version. Hera favours the Greeks. Aphrodite really wants Paris dead so generally supports the Greek warriors but she doesn’t hate all the Trojans and still protects her son Aeneas. The other Gods fill pretty much the same roles.

Odysseus’ experience:

In this version of the Iliad, Odysseus would make several escape attempts throughout the story but would be thwarted by Athena and the Trojans. 

Odysseus would also be uncooperative in supplying the Trojans with strategies. They consider just handing him over but fear going against Athena’s will and losing her favour. There would be an interaction between Odysseus and Athena similar to the moment in book 3 when Aphrodite threatens Helen.

The war’s end:

The war would probably end diplomatically as ,after a time, it becomes increasingly pointless for all involved. Odysseus would be of no use to the Trojans while being uncooperative. Priam, feeling guilty about keeping a father from his wife and son, would decide to return him. Paris would put up less of a fuss about losing a prisoner than a bride.

Athena out of spite at the outcome would guide some Greeks into Troy to steal some prizes. It would not be a full scale sacking of Troy due to having fewer troops, but it would satisfy them to be happy to return home. 

If anyone has any ideas they’d like to add I’d love to see them

[johaerys-writes]

Hi! I'm not sure if you do requests, but if you do, could I please have a short fic about the fight Achilles and Patroclus had over Briseis, where Achilles got into that fight with Agamemnon and allowed Briseis to get dragged off by him? could I have a fic of that part from Achilles's pov where he eventually acquiesces to Patroclus and steps in and saves Briseis? Tysm in advance :) your writing is amazing

Thank you for this prompt!! I had a lot of fun writing this. I hope you like!

Achilles/Patroclus | 2k | T | angst, h/c

The spear snaps in Achilles’ hands in an explosion of wood, the two halves of it now useless. He flings them away, then tosses the ewer on the table across the tent— the sound it makes as it shatters against a chair is sickening. 

Achilles’ rage is hot, incandescent. He can feel nothing beyond it, think nothing, see nothing. He’s choking on it. He's drowning. 

“I will kill him,” he swears. “I will kill him.”

Patroclus follows him inside the tent. He stands there, silent, gaze solemn and forlorn. 

“I should have killed him. I almost did, there. How dare he? How dare they all?” 

Agamemnon disrespected him, tore his honour to shreds and tossed it at Achilles’ feet like a filthy rag, and no one lifted a finger to oppose him. He ordered Achilles’ prize taken from him, and for what? For what? For speaking up, for telling the truth, for forcing him to finally see reason and spare them all—and himself— from the terrible fate Apollo’s wrath promised? 

Achilles’ hands ball into fists, his nails digging into the meat of his palms. 

“He will pay. They will all pay. They have doomed themselves. Let them find a way to win this war without Aristos Achaion. I shall watch them try and fail and fail again, and I will laugh.” His lips peel back in a cruel smile. Vindication twists in his gut, thick and heavy, making him ill.

“Achilles,” Patroclus says. His voice is breathless and urgent. “We must do something.” 

Achilles barely hears him. “I will speak to my mother.” Thetis will surely know what he should do. The gods have surely been watching; she must know what the gods plan next. She will go speak to them, and come back to tell him, and Achilles will watch it all unfold soon enough. 

He is almost at the exit of the tent when Patroclus’ hand on his arm stops him. “We don’t have time. They will have taken her by the time you return. We must do something now!”

“What are you talking about?”

Patroclus stares at him in question. “Briseis.” 

Achilles blinks. The name, spoken out loud, knocks the breath out of him. His rage is right there, blurring the edges of his vision, making his blood boil, but there’s a coldness creeping up on him now that he has no words for. 

Briseis. 

Briseis, with her laughing eyes and her timid smiles. Briseis, with her soft Anatolian accent and her slender hands, constantly working her spindle. Briseis, bringing his men food and wine and medicine when Apollo's plague rendered them incapable of doing it themselves. The very men that killed her family and burned her home.

“Achilles, please,” Patroclus whispers. His hold on Achilles’ arm grows stronger. “Please.”

“I can do nothing for her,” Achilles says, and it is as if someone else has spoken the words, not him. “Agamemnon made his choice. He must bear the consequences.”

Patroclus stares and stares. He looks at him like he doesn’t understand, like he doesn’t even know him. “You can’t let them take her.” 

“There’s nothing I can do. Agamemnon chose this.” 

“You know what he will do to her!” Patroclus is shaking. His skin is sallow and his eyes are dark in their despair like bottomless caverns. “You will not help her? After—everything?”

How many years has she been in their household? How many times has she poured the wine in Achilles' cup, tended to his guests? How many nights has she sat close to the fire with him and Patroclus after everyone was gone, laughed at their jokes, sung to the tune of Achilles’ lyre? Small moments, mundane and inconsequential—but a part of their life there nonetheless. The life they have all built there for themselves. 

Achilles thinks of her, torn away from that life and tossed into Agamemnon’s care, afraid and friendless, and shivers. 

“I can do nothing for her,” he says again with finality, in an effort to convince himself, to shake free this cold uncertainty that’s taken hold of him. “It has been decided.”

“She is one of us. How can you just let Agamemnon take her?” Patroclus’ eyes are brimming with tears and his voice is raw, but his gaze remains on Achilles’ unflinchingly, carving him to the bone. “Where is your honour? How can you let him defile her?” 

Achilles clenches his jaw so hard his teeth ache. It is his honour he’s trying to safekeep—his own, Patroclus’, all of the Myrmidons’. If Agamemnon does go through with it, if he does take Briseis, the rest of the army will see him for the petulant, greedy, thoughtless tyrant he truly is. They will lose respect for him, and once battle after battle is lost, he will come to Achilles, begging for forgiveness. They will all see that Achilles was right, after all, and that without him the war can’t be won; order will have been restored. It is what’s right. It is for the best.

Then why does it all feel so, so wrong?

He averts his gaze and turns away. He can’t bear to look into Patroclus' eyes any longer and see the anger and disbelief there.

“I have to go,” he says. 

Outside their tent, the slaves are milling about, tending to their work. Briseis is sitting outside the servants’ tent, a mortar and pestle in her hands. She glances up at Achilles, and Patroclus following behind him, and smiles. 

She does not know what is to come.

Achilles strides swiftly towards the shimmering sea in the distance, but the sight of men across the long stretch of beach pins him in place. Their polished bronze helmets shine bright in the scorching sun, their red plumes tremble with each step. The Myrmidons guards glare at them as they draw near. 

They stop before Achilles, eyes cast down, stuttering a greeting. “We have come to take custody of the girl,” they tell him, needlessly— he knows why they are there.

Agamemnon hasn’t wasted a moment before sending his dogs to do his bidding. Achilles struggles to hold back his temper, to keep his hand from reaching for the sword at his belt. He wants to see them trembling with fear and cowering at his feet, begging for mercy. He wants them, and Agamemnon, dead. 

Patroclus is beside him. He is taut like a bow string; Achilles can feel the tension radiating off of him like heat. He turns to him, the request already at the tip of his tongue: Bring the girl.

The words die there, the moment he meets Patroclus’ bloodshot eyes. Achilles knows it then, deep in his heart, that he will never be able to face him again if he orders him this. 

Automedon is near, waiting. He catches Achilles' eye and nods; his charioteer goes to Briseis, bringing her forward.

Achilles looks away. He cannot bear to watch, but there’s nowhere to hide anymore, no way to escape this predicament. The game has started, the pawns have all been set, and now they must all play. Every single one of them.  

Briseis glances from Achilles to Patroclus and back. She hasn't understood yet what's happening; only when one of the men, Eurybates—who has eaten and drank with the Myrmidons in many a feast—steps towards her decisively, does panic settle in.

She is one of us. 

They grab her by the arms and drag her forcefully away. She struggles in their hold, while the rest of the camp watches numbly on. 

You will just let them take her?

Achilles can feel Patroclus’ eyes on him, willing him to say something, anything, to put an end to this. They burn him.

You will not help her?

When the men reach the edge of the camp, Achilles' voice slices through the shocked silence like a knife. 

“Release her.”

A few gasps, then murmurs through the gathered crowd. Agamemnon’s men stop to gawk at him in curiosity.

“She is mine. She was given to me by Agamemnon in acknowledgement of my contributions to this war. He shames and dishonours himself, he who sends his underlings to take back a gift he himself has given. If the High King—such that he is—wants his war prize back, he’d better come and claim it, and face me.” 

Achilles takes a step forward. His sword hilt is a cool, familiar shape in the palm of his hand.

“I will be waiting for him. Make sure you tell him that.” 

Fear darkens the men's countenances; Achilles knows the sight well. They let Briseis go and leave the camp after a hasty salute. She falls to the ground; her braid has come undone, and in her struggle, one of the buckles of her belt has given way, letting the fabric of her dress pool at her feet. 

"Go to her," Achilles tells Patroclus softly, who jolts, as if coming awake from a dream. He rushes to her and helps her up, then takes her towards her tent, to tend to her skinned knees and elbows that have already started to bleed. She leans on him gratefully, brushing the tears from her cheek with the back of her hand. 

Achilles lets out the breath he has been holding. It comes out shakily; though the messengers are gone now, the threat he has issued for Agamemnon seems to loom over him like a poised blade. He heads towards the beach, leaving the camp that buzzes noisily behind him like a kicked hornet's nest. 

~

"You stopped them."

Patroclus' steps are almost soundless, the sand yielding beneath his weight with a whisper. Achilles glances at him over his shoulder; the sunset warms Patroclus' features, brings out the amber flecks in his tired eyes. 

"Of course I did. She is important to you." 

Patroclus draws near. His hand, when he sets it on Achilles' shoulder, is warm and gentle. 

"She is part of our home," he says softly. "I know she's important to you too." 

Achilles doesn't respond. He turns back to gaze at the vast expanse of sea before him. It shames him to think that had it not been for Patroclus, Achilles might have let her be taken, lost in his wrath, without sparing a thought to what would happen to her. 

"Is she alright?"

"Frightened, but sound. More than a little grateful that she'll be sleeping in her own bed tonight, and not Agamemnon's." Patroclus' arms come around Achilles' middle to hug him close. The relief in the sigh he lets out is palpable. "You stood up for her. You stood up for us. All of us." 

"I just didn't want her to suffer," Achilles whispers. "Neither her, nor you. I know you care for her. As do I." 

Patroclus' lips graze the side of Achilles' neck. Achilles leans into his embrace, and the knot of tension in his throat eases. Their earlier argument is but a faint echo; Achilles would gladly let it be forgotten. Nothing is worth Patroclus' distress, nor his tears. 

"What do you think Agamemnon will do now?" Patroclus asks. "Think he'll send more men for her?"

"He is welcome to try, if he dares. I will not give her up without a fight." 

Patroclus hums his assent, nodding thoughtfully. He stares at the waters silently for a long while before he asks, "What do the gods think of all this? What did your mother say?" 

Achilles shifts in Patroclus' arms to face him. His philtatos gazes back at him calmly, the salty breeze combing through his dark curls. Achilles brushes them away from his brow with his fingers, and leans in for a kiss; he revels in this peaceful moment, this quiet that's theirs alone. Though before Patroclus joined him at the water's edge Achilles' mind had been crowded with questions, fears and concerns, now he can see the path ahead of them clearly. 

"The gods do as the gods will," Achilles says. "Humans also. It is no use worrying about them, anticipating their actions. I am tired of dancing to their tune. I have done so for too long. Way too long." 

He steps backwards towards the sea, drawing Patroclus with him. The waters are pleasantly cool when they touch their feet. With the open sky above them and the sea below them, and Briseis safe in their camp tonight, Achilles couldn't care less about what tomorrow may bring. 

"All that matters is this," he murmurs against Patroclus' lips, pulling him close, "here, now." 

~

Thank you so much for reading!! Like and reblog if you liked this, it really means a lot <3

[equalseleventhirds]

achilles and jon parallels (on the assumption of annabelle as odysseus, obvs) (and tbh mostly focused on Jon In The Apocalypse):

literal fucking godlike power/invulnerability (with perhaps? one fatal weakness?)

marked...... when young........... by the gods.............

achilles trying to avoid the trojan war and being tricked (by odysseus) into revealing himself: jon pretending he doesn't believe in the supernatural until jane prentiss's attack (hastened by a spider) forces him to admit it

the greeks were prophesized to lose troy if they didn't have achilles, the web's plan (and also jonah's plan) Requires Jon

the fucking smiting, achilles could NOT let a wrong go unavenged

odysseus and achilles are on the same side but also were opposites and fought a lot, but also odysseus gave achilles actual good advice and sometimes made him stop with the fighting to do a smarter plan (in which i continue to hold out hope abt annabelle........ but also she did give good advice. also told him he was responsible for eating trauma so.)

[baejax-the-great]

I know that most Americans are taught in school that ancient Greek stories are almost all about hubris and the punishment for that hubris, and I think a lot of teachers have tried to force this onto the Iliad, where it just doesn't really fit.

If you ask who caused the problems in the Iliad, I think most of us could correctly identify Agamemnon. Prior to the start of the book, he caused a plague. Then he needlessly pissed off his best general in a dishonorable display. Then he does a whole bunch of weird shit including telling his soldiers they are quitting the war and everyone can go home, and then throwing a fit when his soldiers are all like "thank god let's get the fuck out of here." His own soldiers boo him when he tries to talk.

However, if you look at who is "punished" in the Iliad, it's easy to come to the conclusion that it's Achilles (although Hector would be another solid choice. Patroclus is the most valid choice given he died as a direct result of impersonating an invulnerable demigod-sorry, buddy, but you bit off more than you could chew with that stunt).

This is the wrong framework for this story, however. The Iliad is not a cautionary tale about prideful soldiers getting their comeuppance. It's a story about the costs of a severely mismanaged war, how violence and grief beget more violence and grief, and the callous cruelty of uncaring gods.

Patroclus doesn't die to punish Achilles for sitting out the war. Patroclus dies in order to get Achilles back in the fight. During the Embassy, Achilles decides that he'd rather survive than fight Trojans who had never done anything to him. Odysseus's pragmatic appeal to greed, Phoenix's emotional plea, and Ajax's "I don't know why you asked me to come here, he's clearly not changing his mind" do nothing to persuade him. He is persuaded not to set sail immediately, but that's about it.

Had Patroclus not been slain by Hector, Achilles would have had no reason to return to the fighting. He'd already decided his life was worth more than treasure, than glory, than the return of Briseis. Troy holds nothing for him. However, the gods wanted their show, so Zeus makes sure Patroclus dies, thus giving Achilles a motive to return to the battle regardless of how shitty Agamemnon is. He no longer cares about any of that. He is driven entirely by grief.

While Achilles is killing enough Trojans to clog a river, there are mentions of how he used to be chill and ransom dudes instead of just slaughtering them all. He talks about how he can't stand Odysseus's lying, or Agamemnon's drunkenness, During the funeral games, whilst giving away all the shit he no longer needs because he's going to be dead in a week, he shows better leadership than Agamemnon does in the entirety of the book. Antilochus did something dickish? Hand out more prizes. Agamemnon is a sore loser who will throw a fit if he doesn't win? Just hand him the first prize loot and say he won before he even competes. Everyone goes home happy. Achilles might be petty as hell, but he knows how to manage people so that they don't go off in a tantrum and pray for Zeus to kill their colleagues.

The book ends with Priam appealing to Achilles' honor, which works. Achilles' grief is enough to slay an army and desecrate a body, but his honor wins out in the end. (One wonders if Hector, had he been successful in bringing Pat's corpse back to stick his head on a pike and feed his body to the dogs, would have been so moved.) It ends on this note, with the honor understanding of two men who the audience know are doomed to die very soon for no good reason.

The cast of characters in the Iliad is too broad to pin the whole thing as a story about Achilles or a simple story of prideful downfall. Yeah, Achilles steals the spotlight, and yeah, shit sucks for him, but at the end of it, he's still getting his promised immortal glory. In my opinion, Achilles' arc is more about how grief can turn a good man bad and how killing begets more killing.

The Iliad is not about Achilles' pride, nor is Achilles an antagonist or a villain in it, nor was he ever meant to be seen as such.

[foxglow-diner]

I was taking a Uquiz and saw someone say that Achilles and Patroclus are tragic characters because they have the agony in dealing with a lover who suffers while the other is dead.

Now, I understand that is horrible. I can't imagine such a hell on earth. I do, however, have two cents I'd like to provide.

One, I don't doubt Achilles and Patroclus were as close as they were and didn't at some point have a fling. If they were lovers in an official sort, I am skeptical. Homer has no problem showing sexual romance and homosexual subtext. Though, I do think that if he wanted their romance to be in there, he most certainly would've included it somewhere in the book. Maybe he did, and it's just been lost to history. Or perhaps he just thought it was so apparent, that he didn't want to make it explicitly stated. Either way, I do find it odd that specifics aren't given.

My other point is The Song of Achilles. That book has overly sappy prose. Madeline Miller managed to put together modern YA in the most stereotypical form with a Homeric writing style to make the amalgamation The Song of Achilles is. I understand that the book is told from Patroclus' perspective, so there might be some romantic bias. But, Patroclus isn't a soft figure. He wasn't in the Iliad. He was a harsh warrior, then lover. That is how Ancient Greek society was. The Song of Achilles just could've been much better than it turned out to be, and was a reimagining that fell short of what makes the Iliad quite literally, a timeliness classic.

That being said, the book focuses on a romance, whereas the thing that makes their relationship (in both romantic and platonic facets) is the fact that Achilles (in the Iliad) was only present because he wanted to fight. Achilles participated in the Trojan War, not because he wanted to help his fellow Greeks or Menelaus' cause, but because he wanted glory through battle prowess.

After being wronged by Agamemnon, Achilles leaves the fight, tipping the scales in favor of the Trojans. This leads to many Greeks being slaughtered all because Achilles got his feelings hurt. He is compared to a god, because he is as emotional and unpredictable as one. Achilles being gone, is why Patroclus goes to get his armor. The Greeks look up to Achilles–––regardless of all of his dramatics, which is again, explained by the societal values of the time. So, to boost morale, and try to get close to killing Hector to win the war, Patroclus wore the armor. Despite these noble reasons, Patroclus is killed.

Achilles' best friend, the warrior in arms, the lover, was killed, because of Achilles' selfishness. Hector gets killed, his corpse desecrated for nine days, because Achilles wanted revenge. It's Priam, Hector's father, who goes to Achilles, and begs for his son's body back. This is a king, the king of Troy for crying out loud, begging and weeping, for his son's body back, from the monster who has killed some of his other sons and his people. And only then did Achilles realize the gravity of everything he did up to that point. At that moment, he began to weep alongside Priam.

Patroclus was gone because of Achilles’ own hubris. And that, is what makes it tragic. 

[classicslesbianopinions]

Ancient Woman Thunderdome 2023

Round 4 (QUARTERFINAL) Match 1: Clytemnestra vs. Callisto!

The rules: Vote based on who would win in a fight, NOT who you like more. Consider factors such as physical prowess, intelligence or cunning, and magical ability.

If the character has multiple non-godly forms, consider the one you believe to be more powerful. If the character is a goddess for a portion of their life, please only consider their mortal or non-godly form.

The fighters:

Fighter: Clytemnestra Source(s): Aeschylus's Oresteia, Sophocles' Electra, Euripides' Electra Bio: Clytemnestra is known for being Helen's sister, Agamemnon's wife, and for murdering her husband immediately after his triumphant return from the Trojan War, having waited ten years to get her revenge on him for sacrificing their daughter, Iphigenia, to Artemis.

Fighter: Callisto Source(s): Various mythological sources, Ovid's Metamorphoses Bio: Callisto was one of Artemis's nymphs, which meant she had sworn to never get with a man. Unfortunately, Zeus didn't care about that kind of thing, and got her pregnant (whether or not this was consensual varies by source). Sources disagree on who exactly turned her into a bear and why (Artemis did it out of anger at finding her pregnant, or Hera did it out of jealousy...), but everyone agrees that she she turned into a bear and had a child, not necessarily in that order. Sources also disagree on whether it was her son or Artemis who nearly killed her, but it doesn't matter, because Zeus put both her and her son into the sky as Ursa Major and Ursa Minor.