#but Revenge of the Sith is unironically amazing

[overobsessedfanboy23]

I’m the ultimate George Lucas apologist apparently. Because I like all three Star Wars prequels as well as his critically panned 2015 animated movie Strange Magic.

[sl-walker]

Do you think Maul hated Sidious at all up the point of his battle against Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan on Theed? I get that it's kind of the Rule of Two Sith m.o. for the apprentice to hate and resent the master, and Maul hated "The Man" as a child and does seem to acknowledge that Sidious doesn't exactly treat him well, but by the time of the Naboo battle there just seems to be obedience and, to a degree, trust rather than the Sith-typical loathing. Which is heartbreaking.

If I'm going by Legends -- because of course I am going by Legends -- I think Maul felt the same way about Sidious that many abuse survivors feel? Which is super fucking complicated. It's hate. But it's also love. It's desperation and fear and hopeless yearning to be good enough. It's wanting approval so bad that you can taste it. It's all of those things because Sidious and Deenine were Maul's only caretakers, and it's very, very hard to only hate your caretakers, even when they rightfully deserve every bit of it.

So, on one hand, he hated Sidious as a tot. And he was literally just a tot. But he was also isolated from everyone. Sidious and Deenine were the only ones who provided him anything even remotely like companionship, and I don't think zabrak babies are so different from human babies in the social needs department. It just so happened that what Maul needed came from the same beings that were actively hurting him.

So, I think Sidious gave him just enough praise to string him along desperate for more, mixed liberally with a lot of gaslighting and mind-fucking, so that by the time you got to twenty-two year old Maul -- WHO WALKED AROUND LIMERGE WORRYING ABOUT SIDIOUS AND COMPARING HIMSELF TO A HOUSEPET UNIRONICALLY -- he's so conditioned to this seriously toxic dynamic, of scant praise and awful suffering being tangled utterly around one another, of his Master being the only one allowed to define his worth as a person, as an extension on Sidious's will, that he doesn't hate the man. He's utterly loyal. Even when, in 'End Game', he starts to realize that his master answers to another master, his own feelings edge betrayal, but his desire is to prove himself regardless.

Not to take revenge.

It is very heartbreaking. Maul has some really amazing qualities. And his ability to be loyal to another person, even one as horrible as Sidious, is one of those! His ability to fret about them, even one who doesn't deserve it.

Unfortunately, that poor kid ended up in the hands of an actual, factual sadist who eventually took over that whole damn universe, and never really stood a chance.

[lunar-magus]

Mandalorians.

I think we can all agree that they’re of the best things to come out of Star Wars. There’s so many cool Mandos, including Boba Fett, certified badass; Jango Fett, the tired murder dad; Sabine Wren, who’s probably my favorite character from new canon; and Din Djarin, who I unironically would marry if I could. However, there is 1 (one) specific Mando who really made me into a Fando, the super overlooked, now non-canon Goran Beviin.

Before talking about Beviin, I need to give a bit of context. Back in 2005, right before Revenge of the Sith was released, a video game called Republic Commando came out, and it was amazing. More relevantly, though, was the “tie in” novel that had next to nothing to do with the game, written by Karen Traviss. I was a huge Star Wars nerd back in middle school (still am, but especially back then), and by chance I decided to pick up that book from Barnes and Noble a while after it was released. Traviss was a very divisive writer in the Star Wars fandom, but I think she was the best thing to happen to the books since Timothy Zahn.

In her Republic Commando series, Traviss included a number of Mandalorians who were heavily involved in training the commandos, and fleshed out Mandalorian culture more than any other source before her. In addition to being fierce warriors, she established Mandalorians as a very family oriented culture, with things like adoption and found family being incredibly common and important to the culture. This novel take really sparked my interest, and I read all of the sequels as soon as I could.

The other major Star Wars series that Karen Traviss worked on was the Legacy of the Force series. This series had a unique layout, with 1 author writing every third book. Traviss was responsible for books 2, 5, and 8, all of which had prominent Mandalorian characters, because why not? Notable among these Mandos was Goran Beviin, the right hand man to Mandalore Boba Fett. Beviin was one of my favorite characters to read. He was every bit the badass Boba Fett was, but instead of Fett’s brooding, withdrawn personality, Beviin was friendly and good natured.They had a fun dynamic, with grumpy Fett unable to resist befriending the warm Beviin.

Already a fan of Beviin from Traviss’ first entry in the Legacy of the Force series, I was pleased to see his return in the 5th book in the series, released (in paperback) in 2008. In this book, the plot goes to the Mandalorian homeworld of Mandalore, where we get to see Beviin’s home. At his farm, we’re introduced to his adopted daughter, Dinua Jeban, and Goran’s husband, Medrit Vasur.

‘Wait, his husband?’ 14 year old me thought, confused. I flipped back a few pages, double checking the pronouns used for Beviin and Vasur. Yup, both of them are guys. ‘Huh, I didn’t know guys could marry each other. That’s neat.’ This was honestly the first time it really clicked what gay meant. Like, I grew up watching the Simpsons and they had a gay character every now and then, and I heard people make fun of gay and bi people both in and out of school, but gay and bi were just words to me. This, though, was the first time that I actually understood that someone could be attracted to another person from the same gender. And Goran Beviin cemented himself as one of my favorite characters ever.

It would take several more years for me to finally realize that I was queer (non-binary bi/aro ace, just fyi), but Goran Beviin and Medrit Vasur remain so important to me, as the first canon gay couple in Star Wars, and as the first gay characters that I actually understood.

[straightfacedstrangeness]

Okay, these are not expert/Hardcore Nerd opinions, but I’m so used to being surrounded by Star Wars and keep being surprised that other people aren’t, so...Some Kind Of Star Wars viewing guide for people who aren’t into Star Wars

STARting point:

Basically, if you like robots, aliens, and big space battles (and/or are a special effects or sci-fi design nerd), you’ll probably enjoy Star Wars.  If you don’t...the writing and acting quality varies from version to version, and between different movies in the same trilogy.  Star Wars is more a thing to enjoy because it’s fun, not to appreciate as high art (unless, again, you’re a nerd for special effects or design).

The original movie, aka Episode 4: A New Hope, is the best starting point because it sets up the central characters and conflict, is a lot of fun, and if nothing else you’ll get like 60% of the Star Wars references people make.

Episode 1: The Phantom Menace is also a lot of fun and could be watched as a standalone, but the plot can be hard to follow, and the other Prequel movies (Eps 2 & 3) are best viewed through the lens of “how does this inform the events of the Original Trilogy” since they’re kind of awkward, confusing, and depressing without that context.  Only start with 1: The Phantom Menace if you have some nostalgia for it.

Episode 7: The Force Awakens is also a lot of fun and has the added bonus of a more diverse cast, but it and its sequels heavily build on and reference the events of the Original Trilogy.  The basic plotline of “evil fascists VS people trying to stop them” is probably easy enough to follow, though, so you can probably start here if you’re okay with getting some Original Trilogy spoilers, but you’ll most likely want to watch The Original Trilogy before watching 8 or 9.

Rogue One and Solo take place before The Original Trilogy and can probably be viewed first if you like the cast or concept of either (Rogue One: “here are the people on the ground doing the hard work that sets up the other heroes’ victories,” Solo: “it’s a heist movie IN SPACE!”), but they’re fairly dark by comparison and some of the big reveals or other details might make more sense with the context of seeing the Original Trilogy first.

The Mandalorian takes place on the fringes of the Star Wars universe and barely references any events or characters from the rest of the franchise (and even then, neither the audience nor the main character are expected to know who or what they are), so you can start here if you don’t mind minor spoilers for who won the (Original Trilogy) war.

The Original Trilogy (4, 5 & 6, 1970s-80s)

Lots of fun, heavily referenced in pop culture, great designs and cool puppetry and other practical special effects.  These are the movies with Mark Hamill as Luke, Carrie Fisher as Leia, and Harrison Ford as Han Solo.  All of them are great and bring a lot of charisma and humanity to their performances.  4: A New Hope is the really iconic one and is mostly a fun adventure through space.  A lot of people love 5: The Empire Strikes Back because it’s darker and hate 6: The Return Of The Jedi because it’s sillier, but honestly, it comes down to personal preference.

Once you’ve seen The Original Trilogy, you can freely watch either of the other movie Trilogies.  Just watching 4 is enough to let you skip over to the standalone movies or the TV show The Mandalorian.

The Prequel Trilogy (1, 2 & 3, 1990s-2000s)

These are the movies with Ewan McGregor as young Obi-Wan, Hayden Christensen as Anakin, and Natalie Portman as Padmé.  A lot of people shit on these for being “bad movies,” and yes the acting is often flat, the plots can be hard to follow (Original Trilogy is a simpler “bad government VS good rebels,” Prequel Trilogy has a lot of political manipulation and nuance but doesn’t explain it much), and a lot of it is watching people making decisions that you know from the Original Trilogy are going to turn out badly.  But I unironically love them, and they have really amazing design and special effect work (the CGI of course looks dated now, but it’s still phenomenal), and a lot of fun moments.  1: The Phantom Menace is another fun adventure through space, but with a lot of awkwardly racist alien caricatures who are thankfully played down or removed from the other movies.  2: Attack Of The Clones is a space adventure with an unfortunately uncomfortable romantic subplot, and 3: Revenge Of The Sith is relentlessly dark but I like the emotional drama of it.  Again, either you’ll think they’re fun or you won’t.

Like I said above, these are best watched after having seen the Original Trilogy, to inform the backstory and characters’ actions, VS being watched as standalone movies.

The Sequel Trilogy (7, 8 & 9, 2010s)

These are the movies with Daisy Ridley as Rey, John Boyega as Finn, Oscar Isaac as Poe, and Adam Driver as Kylo Ren.  Like with the Original Trilogy, all of them are great and bring a lot of fun and depth to their characters, and also 7: The Force Awakens is a fun space adventure, and people are divisive over 8 and 9, 8: The Last Jedi being darker and 9: The Rise Of Skywalker being lighter...but with the added meta-drama that 9 spends the entire time trying to undo or contradict things that happened in 8 (and an extra level of meta-grossness in that 9 seems to bow to things that Toxic White Guy fans hated about 8, like removing a major WOC character).  I personally prefer 8 because it’s a neat subversion on a lot of accepted lore and concepts from the Star Wars franchise and was disappointed in 9 as a result.  But once again it comes down to a matter of taste, and at the end of the day the main thing about Star Wars is fun dialogue and cool sci-fi stuff.

These should be watched after The Original Trilogy because they heavily build on and reference the events of it, though 7: The Force Awakens is a reasonable “First Star Wars movie” if this is the version you’re most interested in...just with inherent spoilers for The Original Trilogy.

Standalone Movies (Rogue One & Solo, 2010s)

Rogue One takes place immediately before The Original Trilogy but is darker and more of a heavy action-drama about people making difficult choices, with a good, largely-POC cast.  Solo also takes place before The Original Trilogy, though I feel it has some clunky writing (a droid character who’s reasonably upset about the literal enslavement of her own kind is treated as delusional and comic relief??) and also gets pretty dark with lots of character deaths, but it has the fun of being a heist movie with a conscience.

Like I said above, these can prrrrobably be watched without Original Trilogy context, but at least Rogue One is probably more rewarding if you’ve already seen 4: A New Hope.

The Mandalorian (TV show, 2020s)

This is the show with “armor guy and Baby Yoda” X’D  It’s basically a Western about a guy drifting from town to town across space and helping people with their problems...which mostly involve fighting and killing people.  As always, amazing designs and special effects, and I find the writing consistently compelling.  There are a lot of bonuses if you recognize a character, character design, or prop design from another Star Wars media, but since you don’t need to know them in order to understand the episode you’re watching, you may not even realize they’re references (which is the BEST way to do a reference).

This takes place immediately after The Original Trilogy, but you can watch this first if you don’t mind knowing who wins the war.  Though there are a few worldbuilding details (like being able to recognize the evil Empire’s uniforms or ships) that are probably a bit less confusing or a bit more rewarding if you've at least seen 4: A New Hope.

Other Media

I haven’t seen/read/etc much of any Star Wars except what’s listed above, so I can’t really offer any advice here.  But the CGI TV show The Clone Wars probably relies on you knowing the plot of Prequel Trilogy eps 1 and 2 (since it takes place between 2 and 3)...and if you’re jumping into some other Star Wars media and you can’t understand what’s going on, look at its copyright date and check what movies came out before it did, to gauge what you’d need to watch for context.  But all the movies only rely on knowledge of other movies, the other media are about fleshing out other aspects of the universe or things that happened between/before/after the movies.

Otherwise all I can say is that the Star Wars: Droids cartoon from 1985 is delightful and the few eps I’ve watched don’t require any Star Wars knowledge whatsoever.  (It’s long out-of-print but some kind soul put it on YouTube.)