#bruce is and has been the adult for their entire relationship. he's the parent

[brucewaynehater101]

The number of times I've seen people argue that Bruce is a decent father and that he is not abusive absolutely blows my absolute mind.

Yes, you can hc whatever version of Bruce you want. You can even blame it all on bad writers or reject canon. You can claim comic!Bruce isn't your Bruce and main a different version of him. Those are all valid.

However, you can NOT say that he has ever been justified for hitting his kids. There is no excuse for him willingly laying his hands on his kids. It doesn't matter if the person is drunk, drowning in grief, lost in emotions, whatever. Hitting kids is not okay.

Continually, the physical abuse is a very obvious sign of Bruce being a shit dad in the comics. On top of that, there is so much emotional abuse and manipulation as well. He's shitty as fuck to his kids and there's no reason this is okay. He may love those kids, but that doesn't excuse his behaviors.

Anyways, reject canon Bruce all you want. There's certain aspects of other characters I reject, and DC stands for Disregard Canon. Feel free to have whatever version of Bruce you desire.

What is NOT okay is excusing or accepting canon Bruce's actions/behaviors as acceptable.

[daddychi-01]

Batman Headcanon

Give me a 9 or 10-year-old Dick Grayson who has been Robin for a little bit but is still figuring out his relationship with Bruce Wayne. They are more than a guardian and his ward but not quite yet father and son. They both want that but neither of them have gotten up the courage to say it.

Now give me a hostage situation, during some kind of gala or charity event for the school. One where a lot of rich people and their rich kids are present so it’s very important for Bruce and Dick to be selling the whole secret ID thing, so they have to looking just as pathetic and scared as the other people around them.

The bad guys immediately recognize Bruce Wayne and his brat, and they pull Dick away from Bruce. They threaten Dick’s life, saying that Bruce better cooperate or he’ll have to find a new orphan to to take care of, not like it would be a problem since Gotham has so many.

Dick thinks the fear in Bruce’s eyes is an act. That’s not just Bruce after all, it’s Batman. The Dark Knight. He’s literally not allowed to be afraid, so that look can’t be real.

But it is.

Bruce hasn’t been this terrified since the night he lost his parents. His heart is racing and he has to physically push down a panic attack because that isn’t going to save Dick right now. He doesn’t know what to do. He can’t fight these people, not when he is Bruce Wayne. Without the cape and cowl, he has to be a helpless playboy.

So he does the only thing he can think of: he begs.

Bruce Wayne drops to his knees and he pleads with the masked goons to spare Dick’s life. He’s just a boy. A boy who has already lived through enough trauma. Bruce understands if these people hate him and if they want to hurt him instead, that’s fine. But he begs them not to hurt Dick.

He promises to give them anything. They can have his fortune, his life, whatever they want. Just spare Dick. That’s all he asks.

And a masked woman steps forward, leaning down in front of Bruce with what he knows is a sick smirk. The air around them thins and Dick feels himself shiver fifteen feet away. He hadn’t been expecting Bruce to say any of those things. Sure they were close, they had to be as the Dynamic Duo. But he thought after his parents died, there wouldn’t be another adult who would speak about him like that.

That would care enough to swallow their pride and beg, just for him.

Dick’s ears perk up when he hears the woman speak.

“Anything?�� She asks. She sounds delighted, almost like she had won some sort of bet at a bar and not that she was leading a hostage situation.

“Anything.” Bruce confirms.

“Okay.” She stands, pointing her gun in Dick’s general direction. “I want your Mommy’s pearls.”

Bruce’s body freezes in shock.

Dick closes his eyes now resigned. Bruce may have been willing to say he would give anything but those were just words. It was one thing to say it, it was entirely different to actually do it. And Martha Wayne’s pearls were too high a price.

Dick can’t blame Bruce either. He imagined being asked to give up his mother’s wedding ring and felt his stomach turn. No, he wouldn’t begrudge Bruce for changing his mind—

“Done.”

Dick’s head shoots up, eyes wide with surprise. He had to have misheard. Bruce didn’t. He wouldn’t…

“Give me a phone. I’ll call my Butler and he will bring them here.”

And Dick cries. Not because someone is holding him hostage, he doesn’t care about that, but because a wave of realization crashes down onto him with an unforgiving strength.

He isn’t an orphan anymore. He has a dad. Bruce loves him.

Bruce ends up calling Alfred and Alfred, being the badass that he is, gives the Gotham PD a heads up but drives there anyway just so he can sucker punch the woman who demanded his late mistress’s pearls just to psychologically torture his son while holding his grandson hostage.

He then takes the pair home. There’s a small tin of cookies in the back for them to share on the drive back.

[arguablysomaya]

Nightwing's weird fem-coding

! LONG POST !

Finally got around to jotting down my thoughts on the weird way that Dick Grayson (Nightwing) often occupies female-coded roles without being a particularly feminine guy. This is entirely due to me procrastinating on my finals. Okay!

Dick has often been cited as the hero who plays into the "female gaze", and he takes up some key roles that are typically reserved for women characters.

A large portion of Dick's fem-coding is contingent on his being with his family, and when he's not with them, this fem-coding kinda drops away, such as when he's with his various teams or acting solo.

His most prominent (and imo, complex) femme-coded role is:

-> Eldest Daughter + Widow

Eldest daughter syndrome means " frequently feeling like you’re not doing enough, like you’re struggling to maintain a veneer of control, like the entire household relies on your diligence." It's born out of the unique way that first-born girls are expected to take on adult roles around the household before they've had an opportunity to fully experience childhood (an opportunity their younger siblings will have, in part due to this sacrifice). It creates a strong sense of independence and a desire to be a good role model, but also leads to undue pressure and perfectionism.

Dick acts as a central emotional pillar for those in his family. To the point that when he fakes his death, it breaks something fundamental in the family dynamic:

Not only is it repeatedly made clear that Bruce depends on Dick to act as a lifeline for his own mental struggles, but moreover, his siblings do as well. In a very literal sense, the maintenance of the batfamily rests on Dick's shoulders. Bruce is so rarely available for emotional support that these children turn to the next best thing, which, to be fair, is better than what Dick had growing up. He has to clean up so many breakdowns, it's honestly pretty staggering.

As the OG sidekick, Dick receives quite a bit of hero worship, particularly from younger heroes/sidekicks, who look toward him for guidance. As a naturally upbeat and welcoming person, Dick ends up in the position of bringing light to everyone, not just Bruce. For example, here's Cassandra:

This balancing effect is unique to Dick's skill set. However, this can (and does) backfire very easily. The same pragmatism Bruce engages in hurts extra bad when coming from Dick: like when Dick had to take Robin away from Tim. Not to mention just how intimidating Dick's legacy is, which can create resentment when his successors aren't able to play this role so easily. For example, Jason both before and after his death expressed insecurity that he felt he was constantly being compared to Dick, and falling short.

As the original character that people think of when they think "sidekick", DG Robin (and his successors) had the advantage of not losing prominence even as his contemporaries (Kid Flash, Aqualad, Wonder Girl, etc.) were de-prioritized in favor of independent teenaged heroes (like Cyborg, Beast Boy, Raven, and Starfire). But that means Robin as a concept now has to deal with questions that weren't so prominent in the earlier decades, such as: "How do we justify a grown-ass man using a child (and in fact, children) as emotional crutches?"

It's icky to think about, but there's no denying that early Batman and Robin got side eyes for homosexual subtext. I mean, they literally call each other "partners". So while that "subtext" was, and remains, just audience speculation, given Dick is literally Bruce's adopted son, there is room, I believe, to call into question how healthy it is for Bruce's oldest kid to be taking on a nearly-parental role and be a core pillar of Bruce's emotional regulation.

Hot take here, but I think Dick's relationship with Bruce was/has been pretty emotionally incestuous for a long time.

-> Emotional incest

"Emotional incest[...] is a type of emotional abuse performed by a parent. In cases of emotional incest, parents rely on their children for significant emotional support, which is a reversal of roles. Emotional incest is more than just relying on your kids on occasion—rather, it is an extreme dependence on them." (There's a pretty good argument to be made that Bruce has been emotionally incestuous with all his Robins, especially Dick and DEFINITELY Tim, but y'know. Small steps.)

Emotional incest is a semi-common consequence of eldest daughter syndrome; the natural conclusion of deputizing a child to manage the other children combining with an inability to see the child as a child, still in need of emotional guidance, but more like an adult capable of shouldering the burdens of grown-ups dumping their traumas on them.

To be clear here, while emotional incest may not be incest in the most traditional, taboo sense, it is still abuse. It's putting a burden on a child they shouldn't have to carry, even for children that aren't dealing with such extreme burdens as "grown-ass man running around in a fursuit needs me to keep him from getting himself killed". It's a perversion of a healthy parent-child relationship, where the child is treated more like a partner than a child. In Dick's case, it further exacerbates the parentification he already experiences. This is made more explicit when Bruce "dies" and Dick is cast into a sort of "Widow" role.

Dick reluctantly dons the cowl in an attempt to bring order to his family members. He's also left to parent Damian, alone. He has to make the decision to take Robin from Tim, and try to deal with the fallout from that decision. He has to put a stop to Jason's fratricidal rampage. He's made into the de-facto head of the family.

And the thing about this is: Dick's not even bad at it. In comparison to Bruce's litany of disasters-in-parenting, Dick does a pretty bang-up job of managing his siblings, heading the Justice League, and being Batman. But the crucial point is that he does this at the expense of his own mental health, which is the crux of eldest daughter syndrome. There's no denying that at the time, Dick was most certainly the best choice for New Father Figure, but it was a choice he was pushed into, and a sacrifice he had to make. When this sense of responsibility to the point of self-sacrifice is pushed to its logical conclusion, it has the effect of making Dick a Martyr-type figure.

-> Protector/Mama Bear/Avenger

Dick has shown repeatedly that his hot button is his family. From Tony Zucco to allowing Blockbuster to be killed after the villain targeted Haley's Circus, going after Nightwing's family is a pretty good way to earn yourself an asskicking. Probably the most infamous example of this is when Dick thought the Joker had killed Tim, beating the clown to death to avenge both Tim and Jason.

And while this role isn't particularly feminine, I do think it's interesting that Dick protects his family members from each other with almost the same frequency that he protects them from outside threats. He's pretty notorious for wrangling Damian and Tim, foiling Jason's murder plans, and most importantly, beating the shit out of Bruce whenever he crosses a line, such as when Bruce asks Dick to conceal being alive from their family to join Spyral or when Bruce wanted to abandon the Bruce Wayne persona after the murder of Vesper Fairchild. Or of course, more recently after Bruce's latest MK-ULTRA shenanigans.

This basically puts Dick in the position of being the glue that holds the family together, at basically all times, but especially in times of conflict. This also means he's put in the dangerous position of bodily defending his younger siblings from Bruce's wrath or irresponsibility, a position made even more awkward given the whole emotional incest thing.

That's not to say that Dick's relationship with his family is 100% unhealthy. Dick and his family members (including Bruce!) feel legitimate affection and care for each other. There are times when the dynamics here are indeed healthy. And like most people with eldest daughter syndrome, the unhealthy nature of this dynamic is usually understated. Oldest sibling syndrome is often just an unavoidable consequence of how parenting works. So while I am of the opinion that this dynamic is often unhealthy, hot take: I'm fine with that.

Now, though I've just listed some tropes that he only falls into around family, Dick also falls into some fem-coding all the time, regardless of who he's with, and these have to do mostly with his sexuality.

-> Sexual Assault & Harassment

Yeah, so nobody is surprised that this is a factor. Look up any list of the top ten hottest/sexiest/most attractive male superheroes, I guarantee 9/10 times Nightwing is number 1. However, unlike his father, whose attractiveness is usually played as a part of the male wish-fulfillment fantasy, something people aspire to be, Dick's attractiveness more often makes him an object of desire- very similar to how most attractive female characters are perceived.

And as an object of desire, Dick Grayson is constantly having to deal with being objectified.

Now, Dick Grayson being an attractive character is not the problem. Dick Grayson being sexually assaulted isn't even the problem. the problem is that he keeps being harassed, assaulted, and raped in ways that are flagrantly nonconsensual, and yet it's not treated with the seriousness it deserves. In fact, it took a full decade for Devin Grayson to retract her previous statement and admit that yes, the rooftop scene with Catalina Flores was in fact rape, and it's never been acknowledged in-universe (though, comics have always been atrocious at calling out sexual abuse of all kinds, let alone that which targets men).

Hell, even when he in-universe calls it out, he's dismissed immediately and the story continues like nothing happened.

Like???

Dick's adult sexcapades (which were consensual and enthusiastic) have long contrasted with the numerous times he's been harassed; times in which he comes across as bored, exasperated, and even frustrated with his own attractiveness and the vulnerable position it often leaves him in.

This puts him in the rare (in comics) position of being a male character who consistently and near-exclusively has his sexual agency and boundaries violated by women - a position that authors uniformly refuse to examine despite writing him into it all the fucking time.

Other characters around him frequently make comments passing off this harassment and assault as a natural consequence of Dick's own attractiveness, making "jokes" that essentially amount to "I understand why someone would want to assault him". Which- UH?

There is also, of course, the unavoidable reality that as an acrobat and an aerialist, he receives a very specific type of sexual harassment

the nature of nightwing's fight style necessitates a type of tight-fitting suit that male heroes typically don't go for: an extremely slick suit with bare-minimum armour that again, makes him vulnerable in a way most male heroes aren't, but a style female heroes wear all the time, whether it makes sense for them or not. This of course then allows artists to draw attention to this fact by posing Nightwing in poses usually reserved for femme fatales:

And unlike the Hawkeye Initiative, these poses are (largely) unironic, and not played for jokes. Dick isn't arching his back or looking over his shoulder to poke fun at how female heroes are treated; he does so because the artist (clearly correctly) sincerely believed these poses would play into the unironic gaze of the audience, and also probably thought it was hot. It's the same line of thought artists use when posing femme fatales.

He's even been known to use his sexuality as a bargaining chip, much like more traditional Femme Fatales. In Batman and Harley Quinn (2017), he refers to sleeping with Harley Quinn after being kidnapped by her as one of "the things I do for Gotham", to which she responds "I'm taking that as a 'yes'." And that's uh- not how consent works.

And this particularly sucks because- HELLO? The opportunity to explore the very real and tragically underacknowledged phenomenon of sexual violence against men is literally invaluable, especially with such a prominent character. It's one thing to ignore that men face sexual violence, it's another, entirely more unforgivable thing to continuously and explicitly depict such scenarios and play them off as jokes or not as serious as they clearly are. But what did I expect from an industry that has never had a good track record on sexual violence anyway.

-> Queercoding?

There's also of course the fact that DC has been, as of late, dropping hints that Dick might be bisexual.

That on it's own doesn't mean anything, but when paired with the fact that DC has been angling toward giving Dick a similar playboy persona that Bruce has, just with men included, it's just very interesting.

(BTW: The likelihood DC actually commits to making Dick bi is, uh, not a lot, but if they're gonna stick with this weird closet stuff for a while, let's hope they do so in a way that doesn't make him sound like a cross between Donald Trump and Harry Styles next time? Please?)

Anyway, all of this is basically to say I am forever fascinated by the gender dynamics of Dick Grayson, likely due to the fact that I'm projecting all my eldest daughter traumas onto him, and that someone who's background is in Gender Studies needs to get on this shit if they haven't already. I just love this character sm.

[celaenaeiln]

Where Dick's compartmentalization came from and how it affects the family

What's special about Dick, is that people far older than him see him as an equal because he's able to understand them and keep up with them, and that takes a massive toll on his mental health. He's been acting like a mother, brother, and partner to people twice his age from childhood.

The thing that really hurts is that when Dick's parents were gone, he didn't get angry. He just got really, really sad. And even though he was sad, all he wanted to do was help Batman-help Bruce. He just wanted to help this sad, older man. So at a time when he was grieving, he couldn't even properly grieve because Batman was grieving harder than him. He put his feelings on the back burner so he could fix Bruce.

Dick is not happy right now. Not because of Bruce's response but he's just feeling overwhelmingly sad because his parents have died. Yet look at the way he acts. He forces himself to pretend he's happy to alleviate Bruce's guilt, stress, anger over the case he's in. He didn't want to be another thing that makes him sad. That's horrifying behavior for a child of 8.

What really astonishes me is that Dick was a child with the maturity of an adult-meaning-he delicately handled Bruce's feelings while being careful not to overstep and yet still adjusting his behavior. He never tried to lash out Bruce. Ever. He got mad once at Batman when everything became too much but once Batman revealed himself to be Bruce, he never let his anger out on him. Or anyone.

And that makes me so sad because this is a child.

Look at his size compared to batman-tiny!

But this small boy controlled his emotions so his guardian wouldn't feel hurt when he was the one grieving makes me want to cry.

Here's another version of Batman and pre-robin Dick that showcases Dick's emotional maturity from a small age.

In Batman and Robin, the Boy Wonder-Dick's parent's died from a gunshot and Batman kidnaps Dick at the circus, before his parent's bodies have barely gotten cold.

Dick's response to the new situation and his parent's passing?

"No. Don't go there. Not now."

I can practically feel him compartmentalizing through the screen.

"Yes, Sir. I'll be brave."

He doesn't get a break. No matter the retelling of Dick's orgin story, Dick puts himself together to take care of the man that is supposed to be taking care of him.

But just as much of a toll this takes on Dick, it has a signifcant effect on Bruce too. Bruce cannot function if he knows that Dick isn't okay. I don't remember where but somewhere in the comics Bruce admits to resenting Dick for having amnesia. For not being with him. By him.

His reaction to Dick not remembering them?

The panel-where Dick screams at Bruce with tears in his eyes-it seems as though Bruce has them too. He's so heartbroken. His eyes are glistening with unshed tears.

In Road to Dark Crisis, Dick tells Jon

This is so true but the difference between Bruce and Dick is that while Bruce does it for his kids, he has no one to take care of him. So Dick stepped at an age far too young for it to be okay. I mean even therapists struggle with taking care of their patients problems and usually they're around the same age the patient. But Dick? No experience he took the entire job on his shoulders. Not only that but Dick acts as the whole family and titan's family therapist.

Tim

Tim goes to Dick about everything-every single one of his problems because they have such a good relationship. He tells him about his dad.

Not to mention the main thing he does for Tim

He puts his feelings and priorities on the back burner so he can take care of other people.

Jason

He takes care of Jason's emotional well-being. He tell him he's proud of him and validates him instead of putting him down like Bruce does.

Donna and Roy

The biggest reason why everyone loves Dick is because he accepts their mistakes and works with them and loves them instead of punishing them for it. They don't get that from anyone else. Especially Bruce.

That's another reason why he's so good with kids. It's because he has been designated to playing the role of the parent his entire life. So he gives them everything he has, welcomes them with open arms, takes care of them and makes them feel fixed. Even if it's at the cost of his own well-being. So that's why they fight but in the end also why none of them can let go of Dick. They need him.

[captainkirkk]

✩ WEEKLY FIC ROUND-UP ✩

All the fics I’ve read and really enjoyed in the past week-ish. Reminder: This list features any and all ratings and themes. Please look at tags and warnings on ao3 before reading.

Harry Potter

The Ordeal of Being Known by louisfake

When Auror Potter is anonymously cursed with silence by being forced to hide his own voice inside his mind, there's unfortunately only one person in the country with the qualifications to fix it: Certified and Licensed Healer Legilimens, Draco Malfoy, specialist in Mind Curses and Afflictions. It's obviously a terrible idea, a disaster waiting to happen, but Draco's never been able to back down from a challenge... especially from Potter.

Features fuzzy cartoon slippers, devious house elves, 90s music, and lots—LOTS—of memories. Ron is annoyingly hot, Hermione sees right through you, Harry is a powerful idiot, and Draco is a reclusive masochist that would buy an entire city if it would make a kid happy. (And Pansy is "5'2, I wanna dance with you, and I'm sophisticated fun.")

Super Mario Bros

Cooking Mama (Luigi)! by Little_RedHots_Riding_Hood

Luigi was having a perfectly peaceful stroll through the Toad Market - the sun was shining, he'd just found a lovely handmade blanket, and was on his way to the bakery before heading back to his and Mario's home.

Only... what was that sniffling noise from that dark, scary alleyway?

Of all the creatures he was expecting to find, the littlest prince of the Koopa Kingdom certainly wasn't it.

Star Wars

the tiger is out by elumish

Wolffe looks like he’s regretting having a second Jedi with them.

DC

Cryp-Tim by PrinceJakeFireCake

"The cons of dating Tim Drake were innumerous. For one, he was almost impossible to photograph, and so none of Kon’s friends at school actually believed he existed. His family was scary, horrifying really, and all of them seemed to find joy in making Tim regret ever being born. And Tim had charmed Ma and Pa Kent so thoroughly, they had ditched their shovel talk to instead coo at him and offer him pie and compliment him for fixing their tractor, so Kon was at a disadvantage when it came to intimidating someone with his family.”

Kon and Tim date. It goes pretty well, all things considered.

Tim Has a Hero Worship-y Crush on Every Robin Ever by PrinceJakeFireCake

"Tim as an adult was bad enough, Tim with no filter as a child was too much to be around."

Cork Board Contingencies by PrinceJakeFireCake

If you don’t use a cork board to obsessively plan contingencies for every possible way a date with your best friend can go, how can you go on a date at all?

Excerpt: “Are you free next Saturday?” Tim asked, pretty sure that Kon’s jumble of words was agreement that he wanted to date Tim.

“Maybe!” Kon exclaimed.

“Cool,” Tim commented, taking another sip of his drugged grape soda (“Dammit, Tim,” he mentally told himself. “Do not give in! Buy new grape soda! Stop drinking the drugged grape soda! I’ve shotgunned another can of drugged grape soda, haven’t I? Dammit, that makes five!”) then saying, “That gives me just enough time to pass out for fifty-two hours and plan our first date."

Immunology by JustGettingBy

Hypothetically speaking. Could a hybrid creature become suddenly not viable? Like say it survives being an embryo, makes it through growing up, and then just one day… stops? the text from Kon reads.

Tim’s heart spikes up through his ribs. Kon. What’s happening?

(OR Kon gets the flu. It becomes Tim's problem.)

Change of Plans by PrinceJakeFireCake

"Who’s your friend, Tim?” the voice asked.

Jason hissed. This was his baby! Not his friend!

“Sorry, sorry,” the voice hastened to apologize. “I mean, who’s your parent, Tim?”

AKA, who has the time to be a murderous crime/drug lord when there are kittens to adopt

Motion Blur by sElkieNight60

At Damian's school art showcase, Bruce realizes he needs to help Tim reframe their relationship.

[bitimdrake]

why do you think tim agreed to be adopted if he doesn’t really see bruce as his father? is there anything parental happening in there??

He does! And he doesn't! And it is and isn't. It's a wonderfully messy thing!

To answer the first question first, there are a lot of reasons for Tim to be adopted no matter what. On the milder side, it's logistically convenient to have a guardian, and specifically to have one that is aware of and endorses his vigilantism.

But more than that, in the time after his dad died, Tim was in a very dark place. One of the things Tim does when in a dark place is self-isolate. He made up this whole fake uncle thing to stop Bruce from adopting him after the first offer, so that he could live completely on his own without being beholden to anyone. And that was bad for him! Self-isolating is bad for Tim!

So in that sense, accepting Bruce's second offer of adoption is a huge symbol that Tim is doing better. He (and Bruce and Dick) had the whole One Year Later cruise around the world to heal and improve, and Tim is less locked in grief now and willing to connect. And he shows this by accepting an offer of adoption from someone who loves him and choosing to live in a house with people he loves too. Hooray!

Because, no matter what, he does care about Bruce. And he cares about Alfred, who he independently had a close relationship with, and about Dick, who'd been calling Tim his little brother for years. (Dick and Alfred being the other members of the family at this point.)

So I don't think it really has to be father/son at all between Bruce and Tim for Tim to agree to be adopted, nor for it to be a good thing.

That said, I also don't think it's entirely not parental. I was being a little silly and flippant in that post, because I do think Bruce and Tim are weird about their vaguely defined relationship.

It is an absolutely key part of that relationship that, for ~4 years, Bruce and Tim were Batman and Robin, and worked closely together, and cared about each other, and were not father and son at all. Because Tim still had his own dad! Of course Bruce wasn't his dad! That would be just weird.

That doesn't mean there's nothing paternal to their relationship in the Robin years. Adult mentor/kid protege, sure there are absolutely angles here.

And it also doesn't mean they never became father and son after the adoption. A lot of this is based on vibes and personal interpretation! There's this story shortly after Tim's adoption where he puts a lot of effort into getting Bruce a perfect father's day gift. They do refer to each other as father/son periodically when talking to others.

My personal read on it is that Tim was very consciously trying to Be A Proper Family after the adoption, and adjust super fast. And I do think that by the point Bruce "dies" (or maybe at that point?), Tim sees him as more of a father.

(Also I think probably Tim is Bruce's son much more than Bruce is Tim's dad. Or at least sooner. Again, vibes.)

But I also don't think they necessarily need to be defined so sharply. They're never going to be like Jason and Bruce, who were father and son right away, or even Dick and Bruce, who were family and ward/guardian right away. They are always going to have known each other as non-family first. Which doesn't mean they aren't going to care about each other.

But I think it should mean they get to be little weirdos about how they do define their relationship when forced to.

[jasontoddenthusiastt]

I think fans want Jason to be a good person or be becoming one. To have a character that is well meaning and compassionate but decided murder is ok and to stand against main heroes who’s beliefs and actions go against the people he cares about and wants in his life. It’s confusing for people. People want their fav characters to be happy. But Jason can’t have his family’s support and follow his moral code. He’s cares about people and Gotham, and he’s an asshole who kills. It’s messy. It’s not black and white. I don’t even think Jason cares about being a good person or in the right anymore. I think he cares about what will save the most people instead.

Oh my goodness gracious I’ve been bamboozled

Batman’s definition of Good is not synonymous with absolute good/right no matter how much dc insists it is. Torture, battery/assault, surveillance, those are all condemnable actions too. I won’t get into the exhausting and frankly dumb debate of comic book morality wrt killing because I’ve already reblogged plenty of posts from other people who explained my thoughts on the matter far better than I ever have the patience to sit down and articulate. I also just think the notion that there’s something to be done about fictional characters who kill nazis and senseless murderers is stupid. Jason’s point is that the “main” heroes’ sanitized definition of right has its unaddressed holes and flaws which ultimately result in more preventable fatalities, and that he’ll work to correct those missing spots.

He doesn’t not care about doing what’s right. What he doesn’t care about (at least during his Winick characterization) is whether Batman thinks he’s right or wrong, because he sees the flaws in Batman’s methodology (and since he has a mind of his own). Batman’s methods alone cannot address Arkham’s revolving door and the rogues that come and go through those doors who have no intention (or capability from the doylist pov) of ever changing or undergoing redemption. Jason knows that he’s minimizing the number of preventable deaths by killing his targets, typically Characters Who Simply Do Fucked Up Shit Just Because, Why The Fuck Not?

Secondly, Jason is compassionate … to a fault. That was his fatal flaw. If he wasn’t so hell-bent on saving his potential birth mother he just met from that bomb despite everything she did to him prior, he could have protected himself instead, however slim his odds of survival were. What about his relationship with his other parents? He was a caregiver during his early childhood years for Catherine, until her death. Even mature adults who are financially stable find being a caregiver to a dying parent to be extremely burdensome on their bodies and minds, but he never complained about it or resented Catherine for being unable to care for him. Despite how none of his parents have really been what he needed them to be, he doesn’t blame them for their failings, and even continues to think highly of them (Bruce included).

And post-death? Enter Lost Days. Despite being dead set on plotting his revenge on Bruce, he constantly sidelines this in order to save other victims who are helpless like he once was. His own anger, trauma, and mission don’t remain his priority. (Sound familiar? Something something my own trauma above my son’s, mission above all else, etc.). Why would he waste precious time and risk his own life to do this if he wasn’t empathetic towards these victims or didn’t care about doing the right thing. He is simultaneously horribly traumatized and full of rage, and also incapable of ignoring what’s happening to victims around him (even as he claims that it’s indeed not his priority). And in that same vein, the entire premise of his rebirth outlaws run was that he doesn’t care if the public views him as a villain, an outlaw, so long as he can protect Gotham. And anyway where is this portrayal of him not caring about being in the right anymore. Almost every modern Jason story is about him grappling with where he stands with Bruce/Batman. During the early 2000s was probably the last time he did not care (hello, tentatodd??).

Jason has very evidently been portrayed as a kind and compassionate character. He is also simultaneously a calculated killer who doesn’t hesitate to kill when he deems necessary, and does so without remorse. It’s called being a Complex Character With An Edge™ that as you said, people so often claim to love. However when he fulfills that latter part, that seems to upset people because “killing bad”, and they then try to shave off and round out all his edges and claim he shouldn’t be that angry. In that case I guess you should just stick to liking traditional one-dimensional characters instead of claiming to like Jason but then encouraging his character assassination attempt by dc. Lol.

Lastly, who said anything about the batfam making Jason happy? Just because he’s written nowadays to want acceptance from Bruce (a shoddy attempt at forcing a non-existent nuclear batfamily), doesn’t mean that it’s a sound decision or that it does his character justice. I certainly don’t empathize with the idea that Jason needs the family’s approval or acceptance to be happy. (And anyway he has enough outlets for angst and pain aside from the batfam hello explore his other sources of trauma and do more deep dives into how he thinks when he’s alone). I don’t want them to magically make up and become one big happy family. This is not disney Lol. Besides, there are plenty of stories from dc that have that type of “wholesome” (hate that word utilization) characterization for Jason (Li’l Gotham, Tiny Titans, wfa, and even new stuff like the brave and the bold mini) and that is sufficient imo. Jason fans who are invested in the character deserve accurate, nuanced characterization and well-written stories, whether they be from his robin days (e.g., Batman: The Cult) or as red hood.

[dairy-farmer]

Hi! I love Tim and I love all your itty bitty Tim stories. Thank you for all these really cool ideas you have.

I love the idea of Tim having litters of babies with Bruce. The Batboys are already very distant from their dad because of Bruce's parenting faux pas and absolutely disgusted with Bruce having it on with the neighbour's kid, and having actual babies with him. But the kids are so cute and they slowly start to visit the Manor more often. They watch tiny Tim taking care of the babies and they kind of wish that Tim had been there to take care of them the same way. They slowly mend their relationship with Bruce.Then, they see Tim breastfeeding his kids and they fall in awww with him. Then they see Bruce also breastfeeding from Tim too and think, wait a minute, could we do that??? And they do. And that leads to more litters and other things.

thank you so much!!!! i'm so happy that others enjoy them as well and i'm so happy that so many people send me asks with their incredible thoughts and prompts!!! i hope they continue to do so!!!

tim having lots of little babies with bruce is one of my all time favorites 🥺🥺🥺🥺 i especially love omega and hybrid tim having lots of cute little litters!!!! in a civilian au where tim never became a bat and joined the family there would be a lot of consequences- most notably that the family wouldn't be as close because much of the driving force behind the reconciliation between bruce, dick, barbara as well as bruce opening up to work with others was because of tim. in a world where tim doesn't come into bruce's life until he's already estranged from his other kids well then that opens up the very unique situation where bruce is incredibly lonely and deprived of affection but not able to recognize it.

hybrids are naturally incredibly affectionate, even to complete strangers they'll run up to them and hug and kiss them as well as rub against them in hopes of praise or perhaps even candy if they're young. so when bruce finds himself gaining the affection of a curious little hybrid chasing butterflies in the garden and finds out they're the sweet neighbor boy who moved next door with his wheelchair-bound father, he grows addicted to it.

tim is all lithe and small and fits perfectly in bruce's arms, he loves standing on his tip toes to kiss at bruce's cheeks and he likes holding bruce's hand and flopping it on his head for bruce to stroke between his ears. tim is innocent and sweet and freely gives bruce the attention and affection he hadn't realized he was desperate for. bruce, as an adult, is used to different forms of affection aside from cuddling or kissing and the build up of having tim there is just too much to ignore.

of course it ends with him getting tim pregnant. his little baby womb swells up with a litter.

bruce's children are estranged but they still visit him occasionally and they find out bruce has been getting it on with the little neighbor boy. they figure it out quickly when they see that tim's little tummy is curved with a sweet bump that can only mean he's expecting a litter and bruce is the only man aside from tim's dad for miles...

they don't take it well. of course they don't. dick is disgusted, jason is furious once he learns tim's age, and damian is deeply unhappy because one of damian's most recent charity endeavors were for the exploitation of hybrids.

they think the worst of bruce, of course they do because bruce has never given them rhyme or reason to think otherwise.

they distance themselves even more from bruce if possible.

tim gives birth to his litter in the laundry room of the manor and bruce marvels over the tiny babes. he knows that hybrids are born tinier than normal but they they'll progress to the toddler stage in a matter of months before reaching the same rate as normal human development.

jack drake can barely care for tim let alone an entire litter of grandbabies, not when he's still progressing in his healing. so jack drake gives them his blessing and bruce, without much ceremony or formality, marries his little hybrid that has become the mother of his children.

the first time his other kids see bruce's children is in a magazine spread that bruce did as a result of public interest of his marriage.

the visits start slow and hesitant. its very clear initially that the visits are only to see how tim and all the babies are doing but bruce sees as their concern shifts to curiosity to interest. tim is a natural mother and is always carrying around, playing, or nursing one of his and bruce's little babies.

initially tense or hostile conversations turn quieter and more tolerant when the babies cry at the harsh tones bruce's sons use when speaking to him. eventually that forced calmness turns real because its easy for them to forget how much they hate and disapprove of bruce while they're playing with several cute little babies.

eventually all of them are able to be in a room with any hard feelings and bruce notices as his son's eyes linger on tim's puffy little mama tits when he unclips the front of his nursing bra to free a tit for a hungry little baby that hastily latches on and begins desperately drinking down milk like they think their mama's milk will be stolen from them.

which it won't because bruce is always careful not to steal too much food out of his babie's mouthes. but sometimes tim just has his tits out, changing out babies every few minutes so they each get their fill and the first time it had happened bruce had gotten...curious.

now he just takes a few sips once tim is done feeding their baby. tim's small hand will curl around the back of bruce's neck, fingers playing with little bits of hair and murmuring encouragement as bruce lets out a satisfied sigh and gently suckles milk out of tim's tit like he's one of tim's babies.

bruce can see the barely restrained interest in his son's faces when they see tim disrobe and reveal a pair of plush milky tits. bruce hears their breath hitch when bruce descends down on them once his children have had their fill.

he knows that they ache for connection just like he did and he knows that they've been drawn in by tim's image as a mother to many sweet babies. bruce knows its hard to resist. afterall the heart wants what it wants.

[stormiclown]

Master post (& fics I’m planning to write)

Ladies and Gentlemen: My take on Adrien having his own antagonist like Marinette has Lila and Chloe. A new transfer students makes an enemy of the entire class, but Adrien seems to be his main target.

Part 1 Part 2 Headcannons

Status: Completed (maybe)

Let Her Eat Cake: A one shot in which Lila is exposed as Hawkmoth’s ally, which opens up questions about Francois DuPont. In other words, Bustier is accused of being Mayura.

Read Here

Status: Completed

Lila’s Reflection: A one shot in which Lila has a twin sister who she feels inferior against. Includes Lilanette, Male Marinette, and Lila angst.

Read Here

Status: Completed

Marion Dupain-Cheng: Ice Cold: So we know the umbrella scene where Adrien basically pulls his “sad boy” card to make Marinette feel bad for him? Realistically, she shouldn’t have fallen in love with him just like that. I think she should have been wary of him because of his association with Chloe or outright hate him after he scolded her for being happy that Chloe was leaving. Or in ’Bubbler’ when all he cared about was having a party and not that adults we’re literally being launched into the sky. Or in ‘Despair Bear’ after a day of forced niceties he laughed when Chloe insulted Mylene’s macaroons. Long story short, Marinette shouldn’t have tolerated Adrien for as long as she did much less have a crush on him. If she did, it should’ve been obliterated by now. (This is a Drabble)

Read Here

Status: Completed

A Beetle’s Blossom: The members of the Justice League have seen many things. The deaths and resurrection of some of their comrades, alien doomsdays, off planet missions, and the literal destruction of the world. But the boy who *strongly* resembles Bruce in more ways than just his appearance has them stumped, especially Bruce himself.

On AO3

Status: On going

Fics That Are Coming Soon

The Most Hated Girl in Paris: An AU where instead of getting off Scott free, Chloe is legally punished for the Train Incident and has to deal with the fact that’s she’s Paris’ most hated girl. She must decide if she wants to continue living this way or if she’s going to claw her way to redemption. Long term project.

Tumblr Concept

Status: Not started

Not So Miraculous After all: Tired of citizens justifying their reckless behavior with the Miraculous Cure, Ladybug stops using it, making sure that consequences get left behind.

Status: Not Started

The Fall of A Queen (C. Bourgeois): An Au where Andre isn’t re-elected as Mayor. This changes everything. Long term project.

Status: Not Started

Cuisine Paradise: Seeing as both their parents work in the food industry, Alya and Marinette decide to start a YouTube channel together to share their recipes; Marinette’s pastries and Alya’s dinner recipes. It all in good fun and they accidentally become famous. Long term project.

Status: Not Started

New Boy In Town (Remy Gasteau): The son of the Prime Minister transfers to Francois DuPont and takes an interest in Marinette. Extremely long term project.

Based on an ask I submitted to @mcheang

Status: Not Started

Civil War (Paris Edition): No matter how hard Lila tries, the class refuses to turn against Marinette, believing that Lila was just confused and there was a misunderstanding. In an attempt to get the girls to help her with Adrien, she insists that Marinette would go great with Luka. It was a brilliant plan— until war breaks out over the class. Lukanette vs Adrienette. Short term project.

Status: Not Started

Round the World Trip: After winning a series of contests, essay challenges, and competitions, Marion unintentionally earned his class a fully paid global trip over summer vacation. Includes Male Marinette and shenanigans. Mid-length project.

Status: Not Started

Damian’s Secret Brother: After ruining any chance at a brotherly relationship with Tim after his murder attempts, Damian Wayne is determined to prove that he wasn’t just a brutish assassin. The discovery of his newest biological brother provided him with the opportunity to show everyone that he could be civil with new family members. But he didn’t think he would get attached to the friendly baker’s boy who had ambitions to be a fashion designer. Male Marinette and bio-dad Bruce Wayne. Mid-length project.

Status: Not Started

[brucewaynehater101]

I know there’s a bunch of stuff about Bruce being oblivious about Tim being his parent. I want to see the moment of dawning realization. (This might have been addressed.) I don’t know if it’s a slip of the tongue where he calls Tim “Dad” or someone in the know casually asking Bruce about his parent (referring to Tim and maybe even Bruce answering without thinking about it and then realizing what he said). I want to know if Bruce freaks and tries to establish himself as the parent, only for it to backfire horribly, or if he makes a family tree and stares at it until he starts to have those optical illusions behind his eyes that you get when you look at things too long.

In the Tim is Bruce's parent AU, there is a semi-established point where Bruce finds out. It's after the BruceQuest. I'll go more in depth below, but I wanted to acknowledge that I'm totally chill if people utilize any of the ideas for their own fanwork (and thus have a different "discovery" method). Feel free to write or draw about whatever scenario inspires you most.

Anyways, the semi-established one already cooked up occurs because Tim has a famous reddit account. From years of receiving and then finally giving advice to other parents, he's established himself on a few parenting threads. His account has become something of a legend, especially for his advice with superpowered kids. He hasn't asked for advice for a few years and mainly just helps other parents out. From his past requests and his more recent advice giving, everyone knows that the kid he is raising is quite the handful. The kid sneaks out, gets hurt often, doesn't sleep, doesn't eat, destroys things when mad, screams, pushes away others, and isolates. The legend account states that they adopted their kid and, after establishing rules and open communication, have been doing much better with the extremely traumatized child.

Bruce, who's returned from the timestream and realized how important family is (and how much of a lacking dad he's been), goes to reddit for advice. He finds this really famous account with an extremely traumatized kid and realizes a lot of the advice (and perspective of where the kid is coming from) is helpful to Bruce's relationship with his own kids. Tim and Bruce befriend each other unknowingly until Bruce asks for advice that is pretty similar to Tim's siblings.

Tim suggests Bruce implement specific advice to deduce that Bruce is the account he's befriended.

Tim has a mental breakdown for a bit cause of that.

Bruce notices that his online friend is being distant and becomes a bit sad. He's suspicious, but he's trying to respect boundaries now. Besides, this account is at least five years old (Tim is eighteen now and started when he was thirteen).

I don't have quite the method of discovery set, but Bruce finds out both that it's Tim's account and that the "kid" is actually Bruce (although feel free to add misunderstanding shenanigans and angst where Bruce thinks Tim's been hiding his kid from him for that long).

Bruce, understandably, does not take this well. A child should not parent an adult. The fact that Tim did is a failing on Bruce's part. Bruce tries to correct this by suddenly being a parent to Tim (and ignoring some of the advice/habits Bruce has picked up from Tim). This is frustrating for both parties. Tim is an adult and has always been allergic to parenting/authority. He would rather have a fake uncle than a parent who tells him what to do (I know this isn't the actual reason for the fake uncle). Bruce doesn't know how to parent a child like Tim either.

Suffice to say, their relationship falls to part for a bit while they both try to work through the new dynamics and emotions. Tim is trying really hard to let Bruce be a parent to Tim, but it's just not their relationship. Tim has always been the parent. It feels condescending, belittling, and restrictive.

The entire time Bruce is trying to change their dynamics, he's getting the sense that Tim is only letting him do this in the way that a father let's their kid make mistakes or decisions so that they learn a lesson or practice. It doesn't feel genuine.

Eventually, they manage to figure out the new limits of their relationship and new boundaries. Bruce will always be Tim's child, but Bruce doesn't have to acknowledge Tim as his dad. He never did before.

But, yes. Bruce does spend many days after the realization blankly staring in space as his entire worldview shifts, and he goes over every interaction he's ever had with Tim

[luvrodite]

okay this might get a little long (it did) bc i’ve thought about this a LOT

• firstly, the amount of fear that he feels when he finds out is incredibly overwhelming, understandably so. he’s never had a stable relationship with any parental figure in his life except maybe alfred but even then there were years where they had zero contact. i don’t think he’d leave you high and dry AT ALL but i do think he might need a couple hours alone to process everything before coming back to you and having an adult conversation because what ultimately happens depends on what you want. so when you choose to keep the baby (you might not but for the sake of the dad!jason hcs he needs to be a dad so we’re giving him a baby) he’s scared shitless but he decides right then and there that he’s going to try his absolute best.

• ik you said this in your headcanons list too but he would become the most protective individual EVER, and not that he’s isn’t already but he’s got to worry about 2 lives now, 3 if he includes himself and it stresses him out so bad. i don’t think he’d be annoyingly overbearing but he’s scared, and it makes so much sense that he would be. gotham is so dangerous and his life is so dangerous, and he can no longer to the whole “i’m breaking up with you to keep you safe” bullshit thing bc it’s more than just you and him now, it’s you him and this little baby that’s done absolutely nothing to not deserve their father in their life.

• i think the people he would go to might be alfred and dick…maybe and that’s a really strong MAYBE, bruce. but i really don’t think he’d tell that many people, or if he did it would be later in the pregnancy rather than immediately after. i also think if he did tell anyone early on like dick or something, he’d be pretty vague about it. like dick knows there’s something on his mind and jason alludes to some big stuff going on without explicitly saying it. it might come out of a place of fear, or inadequacy. he’s knows the family has a history of treating him like their biggest fuckup and he thinks about how disapproving they might be about him of all people having a baby.

• when he does tell them eventually, it’s not nearly as bad as he thinks, not really bad at all. it’s a little tense with some people *cough* bruce *cough* but i think (as i said before) he sits down with a few people one on one and just talks, i think this could give him incentive to repair his relationships with the batfam (if they haven’t been already) because having a small army of vigilante aunts and uncles to keep you and the baby safe, helps him sleep at night.

• alternatively he could just never tell them and completely drop the bomb on them years later, who knows, i wouldn’t put it past him

• he’s there for you the entire time, and the only opinion that matters on any and everything related to the baby is yours. ofc if someone’s offers up some advice or he reads something somewhere he’s not gonna completely ignore it but when push comes to shove, the way you want to do things is the way things are going to be done.

• i think going on missions gets harder for him, and i think if you’re a civilian it’s always been kinda hard but it definitely gets significantly more difficult. i don’t think he becomes sloppy or anything but he tries a little harder to be just a bit quicker so he can get back to you sooner. god forbid something happens and he wasn’t there, oh it would kill him. but also i think you’d have to reassure him that it’s okay, that as red hood he keeps the crime rates down and in turn, makes gotham a safer place so yeah he can take his time on those missions.

• touching on what i said previously, anything you say goes. he doesn’t find himself caring much about specific brands, colors, or items but if you have an image in mind of what the nursery should look like he’s doing everything in his power to make sure nothing interferes with what you want. it’s so endearing because this big brooding guy is walking around a baby store looking for a very specific oddly named item by a very specific oddly named brand, and it seems so very silly to the people around him but it’s so very serious for him because he’d do anything to see that beautiful smile on your face knowing you got exactly what you wanted with no compromises and somethings now crossed off your list.

• i think he would read to you and the baby, i think he’d kiss your belly, i think he’d kiss you so often because once it all settles in and he’s a little less scared (i say less because he’ll never not be scared) he’s just filled with joy. i also love love LOVE that idea about the notebook and the letters, it’s so beautiful to me. a heartfelt collection of everything he’s felt on this journey. good, bad, and ugly. i’m not sure he’d give them all to the kid when they’re all grown up, maybe just the highlight reel, the really good moments.

• also back to missions, if he’s on a mission and he can’t really contact you for whatever reason. i like to think you could go to babs and give her messages to send to him next time she acts as oracle. stuff like, what size fruit the baby is now, odd cravings, clothing shopping either for baby clothes or maternity ones. i think you’d save the sex for in person though, i think that would be a very important moment for him. (i like girldad!jason i think his whole world would come crashing down down but in a good way, truthfully i think that would happen regardless of the sex though, i just think finding that out makes it really really real for him. and also so much more happy)

(i really only covered pregnancy here and i have more hcs for that AND for after the baby’s born but this is so disgustingly long and i don’t want to be annoying so i’ll stop here but if you want more lmk 😵‍💫)

nonnie :((((( this is making me so </3 but in a good way. i agree with everything here and i especially love the idea of him looking around a baby store for something specific because if you want it then by god you are going to have it. he wants the whole process to be as smooth as it can be for you!!!!

jason and having babs send on messages is making me ache so much because lowkey that's what my parents did (they were long distance during their pregnancy with me) and i think so much about the letters/emails they sent each other during. love makes me emotional.

he 100% reads to the baby both during the pregnancy and after. imagine walking in on dad jason and his little kid curled up in your guys' bed reading, maybe four or five years old and just. a head on his shoulder and a hand on his elbow to look at the pictures in the book, little footie pyjamas they got from uncle dick. (i'm very much a believer in girl dad! jason supremacy but also you guys having a little boy with his curls and your eyes i'm so overcome)

jason and helping the little kid out of the shower and drying them off and you hear the giggles from the next room when he wraps them in a towel and shakes them a little !!!!!!!!!

[bonerot19]

Just read the first chapter of someday.

First of all. I love the name; I love the theme. There’s something about hoping for a better future/realizing it’ll all kinda just be an extended version of the present that’s very heartbreaking. I liked your note at the end about feeling like you’re still you and you didn’t really change. I feel that so deeply - I don’t think I’m at all separate from the me that was 6 and 12 and 15 like they’re all me. So yeah, very cool. I’ve added a bunch of my thoughts in no particular order:

^ I love when characters are stuck in a physical place that is a metaphor for a time of their life or/and an experience or/and also very much that physical place. To me canon Bruce and Jason have never left Ethiopia.

“I know it is my father's first time on this Earth, too. And I know He had it worse when he was little. But I was little too.” etc etc (I assume it’s a reference to- love it. Steph’s relationship with her father is so interesting to me)

The bit about Dick wanting to gaslight Gotham into thinking Damian’s always been there 😭 he WOULD lol

A pleasure to see Dani again! I love her sm :3

Also: the story of Omelas, and how Jason doesn’t even really think about the moral argument of it, but is really mainly stuck on that one phrase. Very interesting window into his character.

Anyways. I loved this first chapter! Excited to see what comes next :)

hey hi hello I'm so happy

that whole bit at the end of chp 1 came about bc I was looking at old journals of mine from elementary school and middle school and high school and realized I kept making goals for myself. kept writing down my hopes for the future and I wrote, so so many times, "I hope I'm better, someday" and I was sitting there and I couldn't have looked at my younger self and said "you are" bc I'm not. and I came to the understanding a long time ago that you can't cure yourself of a bad childhood, you can just try to have a better life and hold that small part of yourself more gently than any adult ever did. but I was mad about it, and I still am

that "but I was little too" was EXACTLY what I was referencing. 100%. entirely. I think about that a lot, whenever I try to think kindly of how my dad acted when I was a kid. bc he was in a really bad situation, but I was little too. idk I feel like the older I get the more nuanced my anger with my parents gets. bc they were too young to get married, they shouldn't have had kids. they were kids once, and life crushed them. ("I'm still angry at my parents for what their parents did to them" etc)

I think Dick's right, they should just pretend Damian was always there. I think the socialites would be too embarrassed to try and call it out. Vicki Vale would have an aneurysm

my thing with Omelas was that, Jason already thinks about those morals a lot, and he has kind of already decided that he doesn't think it's okay and something should be done about it. the comfort of the many isn't worth the pain of one. maybe the other kids are experiencing that dilemma for the first time, but Jason isn't. so that one line is really the thing he focuses on, bc he's not having that moral debate. he's trying to figure out if he's already been broken beyond repair, he wants to know if he's known too much fear to ever be free of it

thank you, as always, for sharing your thoughts I enjoy them deeply 🥹🥹

[denimbex1986]

'Queer cinema has been an important presence at the Provincetown International Film Festival since it began in 1999. Several past Filmmaker on the Edge award winners, such as Christine Vachon and Todd Haynes, and a trio of provocateurs — John Cameron Mitchell, Luca Guadagnino, and Bruce LaBruce — have created indelible LGBTQ characters and stories. But no past honoree has devoted himself so profoundly to exploring the issues of love, sex, and intimacy among gay men as Andrew Haigh, this year’s Filmmaker on the Edge, who will sit down for a conversation with the festival’s own John Waters at Provincetown Town Hall on Saturday.

Haigh is best known these days for the much praised drama All of Us Strangers, which was released last winter. He adapted the screenplay from a novel by Taichi Yamada. But it feels extraordinarily personal, as its main character, played by Andrew Scott, is a television writer trying to imagine coming out to his parents, who were killed in an accident when he was a young boy. It’s a mysterious and beautifully dreamlike story involving conversations with ghosts (his parents, played by Claire Foy and Jamie Bell) in his childhood home and, in the present, in his mostly deserted apartment building with a neighbor (Paul Mescal) who is interested in him romantically.

Like most of Haigh’s films, All of Us Strangers is about the loneliness of adults living in or out of relationships. “It’s definitely a theme I keep coming back to,” Haigh says. “I think loneliness affects a lot of people. It certainly affects a lot of queer people. We’ve experienced what that feels like growing up in a world where you don’t entirely fit in. That’s a perfect way to create the feeling of loneliness.

“But actually, my films are about how characters try to work through loneliness. They’ve had enough of loneliness. They’re trying to survive it; they’re trying to figure out what it’s about and move forward. My films aren’t about people being depressed. They’re about people taking the next step forward to make things feel better in their lives. Which, I suppose, is the quest of all of us: how to get through the day and make it a little better than the day before.”

All of Us Strangers harks back strongly to Haigh’s 2011 film Weekend, which is about a gay man in his late 20s (Tom Cullen) who works as a lifeguard at a Nottingham public pool, meets up with an artist (Chris New), and spends the next couple of days getting to know him. Weekend was Haigh’s second feature, but it became an international art-house sensation and transformed him into a filmmaker to watch. It’s shot in an almost documentary style, and it’s an intensely close and detailed look at a gay bar hookup with the potential of turning into a romance. It’s a revelatory film that’s still as powerful and accessible as it was when it was released.

Talking about Weekend, Haigh, now 51 with a partner and two daughters, becomes aware of the context in which it was made. “I’m really glad that people still respond to that film,” he says. “It’s been more than 12 years, and so much has changed fundamentally — in terms of queer representation, and what it’s like for us living our everyday lives as queer people. I recently watched a bit of Weekend, and I realized that it’s such a time capsule of how I felt back then. I imagine that a younger audience might feel it’s dated. But at the time it was very pertinent to me. And I think that’s what I’ve always tried to do, especially with queer subject matter — to do what feels right to me, interesting to me, rather than thinking I need to have a message for the queer community.”

Haigh doesn’t only deal with queer subjects, of course. His 2015 film 45 Years, which he adapted from a short story by David Constantine, looks at a married man and woman whose bond of trust is suddenly broken as they’re about to celebrate their 45th anniversary. The film stars Charlotte Rampling and Tom Courtenay and deals with the repercussions that occur when the body of the husband’s old girlfriend is found frozen in the Swiss Alps, reviving memories and feelings and making the wife question how much love actually exists between them. Rampling was nominated for an Oscar for her performance.

Like All of Us Strangers, 45 Years deals with the corrosive influence of the past. “What I’m trying to say in both of those films,” Haigh says, “is not that the past can necessarily destroy us. It’s just there, under the surface. And our ability to be stable in our lives can be thrown off balance so easily. I feel that we live in a world where we try to ignore the past: ‘This is me, I’m in the present, and I’m going to strive forward.’ But that’s not how our lives work. They’re informed by what has happened to us.”

Haigh has created two series for television: Looking, which had a two-year run (2014-2016) on HBO, followed the amorous adventures of three gay men living in San Francisco (played by Frankie J. Alvarez, Jonathan Goff, and Murray Bartlett) and The North Water, a 2021 arctic whaling drama for the BBC and AMC here in the States. He says that working for the small screen took some adjustment for him. So does the current trend toward replacing theatergoing with streaming.

“Cinema is a place to go see nuance, to have real engagement with the audience,” he says. “When I make a film, the idea that it wouldn’t be shown in the cinema is devastating to me. I can’t imagine it just turning up on a streaming site, then vanishing somewhere within that site. I saw somebody the other night watching a movie on his phone! At least watch it on a big TV! I’m at my happiest when I’m watching movies in a cinema.”

Haigh is tremendously excited about coming to Provincetown. “I’ve never been, and I’ve always, always wanted to go. Even in Weekend, [Chris New] has got a T-shirt that says ‘Provincetown’ on it. My partner and I are coming, and I can’t wait.” And then there’s his upcoming interview with John Waters at town hall. “I’m both excited and a little bit terrified,” Haigh says. “John Waters will always be a magical figure in the life of cinema.”

Say Haigh

The event: A conversation with John Waters and Filmmaker on the Edge Andrew Haigh at the Provincetown Film Festival The time: Saturday, June 15, 5 p.m. The place: Provincetown Town Hall, 260 Commercial St. The cost: $30, free with some passes, at provincetownfilm.org'

[f-o-x-t-r-o-t]

Do you think Jason would ever try and adopt kids of his own? I imagine he'd be beyond happy to have a family of his own even if he would need to leave the vigilante lifestyle behind but also wouldn't really imagine something like that being possible for himself in the first place. For several reasons.

First and foremost, we all need to be on the same page that Jason is canonically really good with kids. It's also canon that Jason has some of the worst familial luck in the world.

I think, to Jason, starting a family would be one of his pipe dreams. He knows intimately not every person should be a parent. That it's a parent's job to put their kid first and not every adult is capable of doing that. Jason predominately had to raise himself and had very little guidance as a young child from the adults around him. He's been on the receiving end of taking care of the adults who should've been taking care of him and has had their trauma/issues projected onto him his entire life. Jason has no idea where to start with raising a child. The only stepping stones he has are "Don't do what was done to you as a child" and "What did I need as a child?" Which can be helpful tools, but aren't stable foundations to raise a child on. To this day, Jason still doesn't know how he should actually be treated as a living human being. While he can usually reciprocate needs to others, he's constantly overshadowed by this weight that he's doing everything wrong.

Jason is pretty self-aware and he knows how damaging it is to be on the receiving end of a parent who's not capable of raising a kid. Whether he faults those adults or not, he would blame himself because he would be actively choosing to have a kid. Jason knows he's fucked up and he wouldn't want to fuck a kid up like how he was. Especially because Bruce did do that with a multiple of his: "I didn't want them to turn into me." Even further, Jason doesn't even pursue most (romantic) relationships because he's well aware of his many issues and enemies and how that can lead to many problems. In what world would he feel comfortable putting a child in that position if he fears projecting onto and/or damaging a fellow adult? I think he'd even view it as being selfish. How he's only adopting a child because "he wants one," "wants to help them," "etc." because again that didn't turn out well for Jason. The man knows he'd have to achieve a spectacular amount of healing before he'd be capable of raising a child and Jason doesn't fully know how or if he can heal from the life he's led. Besides that, Jason would constantly be worried about his old life coming back to haunt his new one.

The only way I could see him adopting kids would be if he left the vigilante business (which neither he nor I see happening) and probably somewhat cutting ties with the bats. Whether because of rocky relationships or because he knows being in contact with them would only allow trouble to lead back to him and the new life he's made. Like if Jason was hypothetically a parent, I don't think he'd trust himself to leave his kids around Bruce. If something were to happen to his kids (like killed by an enemy hypothetically), he knows damn well Bruce won't do anything about it except try to stop Jason from putting an end to whoever hurt his loved ones. He would Especially not let them be his sidekick. I know Scarlett and Duela, two girls people like putting as "his" (which ignores the fact that he and Duela used to be the same age. Before that, her older than him), were already loosely ~in the bizz~ so to speak, but he actively encouraged both girls to leave and be something more. Tyler, on the other hand, I hate how fandom always forgets his mom is right there and still around? Yes, she was in the hospital, but people forget that she got better and is getting help. Very dismissive and, to me, comes off as incredibly uncouth.

This isn't to say Jason doesn't know anything about kids and child care. I think Jason knows logically that X is abusive and can do Y to a child's development. But I think his own fears, insecurities, and rightfully placed concerns+considerations would get in the way of ever truly considering kids of his own. In fact, I think that's one of the things that could make Jason a really good parent: He knows that not everyone should be one.

TL;DR No, I don't think Jason would ever adopt/have kids in general because he fears doing to them what was done to him. I.E. Pushing and projecting trauma onto a kid because he knows he doesn't have the skills to be a long-time caretaker to a child. Let that man heal. Slapping him with a kid won't actually do that. You can argue he could "break the cycle of abuse," but I truly think Jason is too terrified to even attempt that because he knows that kids are actually their own person too and deserve to be treated as such. He would never adopt "Just because he's always wanted a kid/start a family of his own."

Really, most takes I see with giving Jason kids are because people either want to squeeze him out of vigilantism or so he can "be more like Bruce" with the adoption tendencies. Neither falls in line with canon Jason while also confusing long-term care = "being good with kids" which are not the same things.

[celaenaeiln]

really liked your take on dick's relationships and decided to throw one of mine here: one of the key things about dick and bruce's relationship is that they are each other's emotional support or at least they are understood the most by each other. THE PROBLEM with that in a relationship like bruce and dick have is that it begins/is grounded in dick as a child and bruce as an adult. while trauma does mature children faster, dick is just that: a child. dick and bruce's relationship is one rooted in an unbalanced power dynamic and co-dependency. The best way writers have interpreted it was when dick compares it to having an alcoholic parent; you want and try to help them but it hurts.

Agreed!!

Batman (1940) Issue #438

"I feel like the child of an alcoholic--you know the problem isn't yours, but it is. You want to help, but you don't know how, so you lie awake at night in fear and confusion, and nothing gets resolved."

I feel like this even more explains Dick's understanding of Bruce and Bruce's unconditional trust in Dick. Dick knows all of Bruce's history. He knows how he thinks, why he thinks that way, what his triggers are, how to diffuse the situation, how to walk around him, how to maneuvere him-he knows Bruce inside out, maybe better than Bruce knows himself.

And in exchange, Bruce relies entirely on Dick. There are instances where he sends Dick on solo missions or times like in Batman: Night of the Monster Men where the entire city and Bruce would have died if Dick didn't understand Bruce's character and saved them all.

But that's a lot to expect of a child and the fact that Bruce never picks up after himself so Dick is left to do it?

The dichotomy has never been more clear:

Dick doing laundry

vs

Bruce doing laundry

When the child is more put together than the parent.

The child of an alcoholic indeed.

[zorilleerrant]

I'm so tired of people saying Bruce Wayne only experienced one tragedy in his entire life. no one experiences just one tragedy in their entire life, that's not how life works

and what we know about Bruce is that he grew up neurodivergent, and he was bullied by his peers and abused by his teachers, because that's just what happens to crazy kids. we know this was more than just the outcome of trauma, because he had a dedicated, compassionate, competent therapist since the trauma happened.

we know that he was raised by Alfred, but we also know he had cousins on both sides and that if they'd had anything resembling a normal relationship with him Alfred never would've gotten custody. his remaining family just ignored him for his entire childhood, and maybe that was better, because it's also been established his uncle was willing to kill him. we know there were rarely other people in the house, and we know all the reasons someone would need to keep adults away from a newly orphaned Bruce Wayne.

we know that, of the handful of friends he had as a kid, they all grew up to try to kill him. we know he's not all that rocked by it; when he looks back he can see all the signs. he lived through his childhood friendships knowing that the people closest to him were always going to hurt him, were going to come back and do worse than whatever they had already done.

we know that he's a celebrity. we know that he was just a kid and he hit the front pages on gore and voyeurism, that blood sells papers and no one wanted to leave him alone for years. that he was a famous figure before he was even a preteen, and the kinds of things strangers - even celebrity strangers - say to kids even though they know they shouldn't. what the public says, and even does, every time a famous kid goes out in public.

we know that he's Jewish enough to attract antisemitic conspiracy theories from all sides of the political spectrum. we know he reads as queer regardless of his personal feelings and that he has to deal with homophobic harassment over it. we know he has PTSD but people treat that as a discrete event instead of an ongoing issue, and think it's not allowed to impact the way he interacts with the world.

sure, there are plenty of tragedies he never had to deal with. there are always tragedies one person's had to deal with that another hasn't. but playing oppression olympics with who's allowed to feel bad just reflects the same stance in real life. and saying that he's rich so he's not allowed to have feelings betrays a comfort with dehumanization that makes me real uncomfortable, especially with respect to a character that has such an important place in both Jewish and queer history, not to mention disability politics itself.

but worse, to reduce just one thing to being a single problem, when the very crux of the narrative is all the related problems it draws in? he saw a horrible thing, and he feared for his own life. and he lost his parents. and he learned he couldn't trust authority figures to help him. and he couldn't stop ruminating on all the bad things going on around him, even long enough to sleep. and he lost most of his support structure, the people he was most likely to talk to. and he gained a ton of responsibility he was too young for. and he gained a bunch of blame for not being ready to make those decisions yet.

no single tragedy is just one problem.