#both of which catra has said

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

i love how they even included the dialogue that is the rawest form of gaslighting, and still chose to read it as a tragic romantic thing.

[girl4music]

Those last 2 episodes. Appropriately titled ‘Heart Part 1’ and ‘Heart Part 2’ because my heart is so full. I have so much to say and have no idea where to start with it.

So much happened. Every lead character’s individual arc was thoroughly concluded in a very satisfying way. Even some of the recurring ones got an endgame so there’s a lot to cover in this recap of a fantastic finale and I feel so fulfilled on great storytelling and great representation packed into a neatly tied up ending.

MAJOR SPOILERS: do not read this if you have not seen the finale of ‘She-Ra and the Princesses of Power’.

I guess I’ll start with Shadow Weaver because she had an endgame that I had predicted. Well, sort of. I said that Shadow Weaver’s arc can only go in 1 of 2 ways. I said it was either personal attainment (villainy) or personal sacrifice (heroism). So I wasn’t surprised when it was the latter. But I wasn’t able to trust in her going that way sincerely until she started attacking that monster, told Catra that she was proud of her, took off her mask and then told them both ‘you’re welcome’. I couldn’t trust that she was sincerely helping them to achieve releasing and channelling the Heart of Etheria’s magic… which by the way, is what almost brought them to the brink of destruction the first time they tried to do it. However, I understood that because She-Ra was the conduit for that, that it could have a different outcome. Still destructive but destructive only to the opposition. I think anyway. I might have to rewatch that part again because I don’t think I fully understood what was going on there. But yes, Shadow Weaver went out in a heroes death rather than was the cause of her own demise out of hunger for power and a desire to attain the magic of the Heart Of Etheria for selfish aim. I was happy with it.

Glimmer and Bow: I decided to talk about these 2 lead characters together since part of their arc involves each other. It was no surprise to me that they would declare their love for each other. I mean Glimmer has always had a crush on Bow and they’ve been the very best of friends since they were children. I wasn’t sure about Bow at first but I knew intense romantic feelings would develop and I’m glad it was Glimmer who said it first. I am a bit disappointed that there wasn’t a kiss on the lips but I think I understand why that was. I’ll get there. Be patient. There’s way too much to talk about first and I really want to save Catradora until the very last section because I’ll have the most to say about them as a lot of their arc informs well… pretty much the whole TV show.

Glimmer individually had more of an arc in the TV show than Bow did so a significant amount of my meta goes to her. It was mainly how she was fairing as Queen but also how useful she could be to the team because of it. Then of course there was Micah. Reuniting with him but having to battle with him because he was an unwilling agent of Horde Prime. I laughed with pure joy when the influence on him ended and he said “Hi, I’m your dad.” I really felt for Glimmer when she was desperately trying to heal him and she said “I won’t lose another parent!” So it was so satisfying for me to realize she healed him and that she poured all the love she could into that heal and when she succeeded, the proud smile that he wore must have made her feel like Queen of the world, never mind just her little town of Brightmoon. She deserves it.

Likewise it was wonderful to see how proud Bow’s dads were of him when he gave that rousing battle speech to the reawakened masses of Etherians, telling them to be their own warriors and fight for their home. It was right that it was Bow to do that rather than Adora or Glimmer because that is what he had trained himself to do from the beginning. He wants to be an archer battling on the side of the greater good and not a historian. So to see his dads holding each other, proudly watching him… it brought a tear to my eye, I have to admit. So beautiful!

Hordak and Entrapta: I had no idea that I would get a closure for Entrapta, let alone Hordak. I did and I’m so happy about it because even though she was only a recurring character, Entrapta buried her way into my science, tech and engineering loving heart (with a spanner and a blowtorch? You will never know 🤣) but I am glad that she got over her obsession enough to focus on what really mattered. Saving her friends.

The fact that what stopped Horde Prime wasn’t Adora or Glimmer or who you would expect, but Hordak and Entrapta? That hit so hard with me. To give THEM the hero moment of defeating the villain. I was like “Oh my god! That’s brilliant!” Because it is. Think about it. Who do you think Horde Prime tortured the most? His Little Brother! I still don’t know if that was literally or not. 🤷‍♀️ Was he actually related or was he just another clone because he did call Catra his “Little Sister” too? That’s still so creepy to me. But yeah, for Hordak to get that moment of retribution was absolutely delicious for me and then for Entrapta to reach him when Horde Prime tried to take over through the Hive Mind? So, so, good! That made total sense and it was brilliantly executed!

Scorpia and Mermista: The only reason to lump these 2 characters together is because they were chipped and controlled the longest that they caused significant damage to Etherians. There’s not really much to say about them other than that they’re going to have huge headaches now that this is all over due to how far gone they were. I mean I’m glad that they were able to save them but I just don’t know what the aftermath will be for them or whether they will be the same ever again.

From the way I watched and interpreted the TV show, I understood that one of the main narrative themes of it was psychological conditioning and I’ve been in awe that this children’s show was brave enough to tell that very dark story,… let alone see it right through until the end because it’s an ambitious, elaborate and difficult narrative undertaking. Especially to do it properly,… which they definitely did. To tell the darkness of… well… basically radicalization and genocide but to do so in such a way that it could teach and motivate kids to develop on their innate judgement and discernment so if - god forbid - they ever end up in that situation, they’ll know exactly what to do about it. With team She-Ra being their idols, they’ll be able to fight conditioning. I can imagine that’s what the creators intended with this and I cannot acknowledge and commend them on it high enough. I think that ND Stevenson and the entire creative team are incredibly courageous and amazing to make this a main thematic narrative all throughout this TV show and handle it with skill and compassion that it does not once come across as too much for PG.

Catradora: (Yes, I’m using the ship name because the way they tie up their individual character storyline arcs seamlessly also ties in with their romantic arc and you do not know how hard it is to find this with WLW ships.)

First off, I want to point out something that may or may not have been pointed out before with Catradora but this is just how it came across to me in the narrative given I interpret psychological conditioning as a main theme within it. To me, a lot of the reason why Catra is the way she is as a villainous character when it comes to receiving love and affection has do with this factor. She’s so closed off and repressed to the point that she cannot even see that she’s corrupting and sabotaging herself. She is a lot like Xena in this way. But a major striking difference for Catra is that she physically loses the one person in the world that stops her from doing this, whereas Xena physically gains that one person. Trust issues, abandonment issues, parental issues all tie in together - but that was all tolerable when Adora was around her. As soon as Adora leaves her behind in the Fright Zone and, furthermore, begins to oppose her as the hero of Etheria, she spirals so hard and so fast that all of those issues - which were always issues caused by the abusive treatment from Lord Hordak and Shadow Weaver - come crashing down one by one on top of her because she no longer has the person who makes those issues just inconveniences for her. Not only that but … it feels like personal betrayal for her that Adora fights her. She genuinely does think that Adora hates her. I mean who wouldn’t if they were in her shoes (paws?) and had the “upbringing” and “nurturing” backstory she’s had? So Catra has this preconceived notion that Adora never cared about her and left her because she thought she was better than her and was chasing after heroic glory and believes that she was too weak to go with her. In a way it’s a personal vendetta out of misunderstandings Catra has against Adora and those feelings are intense not just because the Horde brainwashing is that deep and severe but also because her love is that deep too and she can’t differentiate which feelings are which. So she becomes She-Ra’s mortal enemy because in her mind, She-Ra is what has taken Adora away from her.

But obviously, from Adora’s side, She-Ra was sprung on her, Etheria was sprung on her. In fact her entire world upended once she recognized her life for what it was. A lie. That she was the villain brutalizing innocent people. She couldn’t go back to them even if she had wanted to because everything she had ever knew was fraudulent and she had been coerced and deceived into being a weapon. And what I really like about Adora’s individual arc is that eventually this was revealed to be true on both sides of the war. She was a weapon for evil and for the greater good. But all she wanted - as all heroes do - was just to protect and defend her loved ones. That’s it. Catra could never see it that way though and it makes sense that she couldn’t given her conditioning was even worse as it involved one-on-one attacks from Shadow Weaver as well as whatever the treatment was with the entire group. Catra’s psychological conditioning was much more personal, intimate and isolated so what was ingrained into her had much deeper and stronger layers added on to it. Hers was a solid brick wall built trauma complex. Those are always much harder to recognize and escape from but with the right therapy,… it can be done. Given her issues weren’t so bad when Adora was around her but got much worse when Adora left her… it is clear that Adora represented a sort of therapy for her. Adora helped her keep all the crippling thoughts of self-doubt and self-contempt at bay. But they were on full volume when Adora left and kept attempting to kill her.

Okay, so let’s finally get on to their romantic arc and how the finale not only concluded their individual character representation and development arcs but also ended their ship slow burn. It wasn’t until the fantastic episode of ‘Save The Cat’ did I realize they were going there. See,… to start with, I knew that they were going to become a canon WLW couple at some point otherwise I would have never started watching it. That was the draw for me. That they were both lead characters in a canon WLW ship in a children’s TV show. That floored me. But I was not prepared at all for what I got to see in the finale. It was groundbreaking. It was phenomenal. In fact I’m sure it was life changing for many queer kids to see that kiss happen the way it did. Or… just happen on-screen at all. Look, I am so used to the “implied” and “assumed” and “disguised” when it comes to WLW physical intimacy that I just do not ever expect blatant leaves-absolutely-no-doubt-whatsoever kisses. I certainly don’t expect WLW kisses written and portrayed as “the power of love” kind. It’s extremely rare. To see it in a children’s show nailed me to the floor. But furthermore - added on to that astonishing feat - is that both lead characters overcome all their issues and obstacles through that very act like… a fairytale story. It’s like… when the Princess kisses the Princess, all is well… there’s no stopping either from that point on. It seems corny but it all just depends on how it’s done. But the fact is you don’t see it done between WLW at all. So to see it done WELL alongside seeing it done at all… I mean Indy knew that he had an assignment with this but the phrase “he understood the assignment” doesn’t cover or justify what was accomplished with this and I can’t believe it’s took me this long to see it.

Every TV art/entertainment creator should watch this TV show and regard this finale as the perfect example of what queer representation can and should provide in TV because this was just the epitome of what true love is. But the fact it was between 2 female lead characters.

I can’t even begin to explain how much it meant to me but I will spend the rest of my life trying to express it because this really was a groundbreaking achievement and I will be adding this WLW ship to my very short list of WLW ships that shape and satisfy every piece of me.

I have had the best fucking time watching this TV show and I will be doing reruns of it for god knows how long because I am sure there is so much more there for me just like there is with Xena, Buffy, Charmed, Dragon Ball Z, Wynonna Earp and Arcane. All these beloved shows are timeless to me for a reason and She-Ra is the same.

I hope you all enjoyed reading my recaps of my very first watch of ‘She-Ra and the Princesses of Power’.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you all. 🎄

[justmenoworries]

"You just hate that Catra got a redemption arc!"

Wrong.

I hate that Catra got a bad redemption arc. Where everyone is just suddenly cool with her because she gave a very unconvincing and very unspecific apololgy. Once.

S1-4 actually did a good job of setting it up. It's made clear multiple times that, yes, while Catra did have a shitty childhood and most of her issues can be chalked up to Shadow Weaver being a horrible mother, it still doesn't mean she's automatically in the right. Both the narrative and the characters contiuously call Catra out on her actions and on her insistence that everything bad she does is actually someone else's fault. Adora literally gets a whole-ass speech in the s3 finale where she tells Catra that, no, the bad things Catra has done and does aren't on Adora, or Hordak, or even Shadow Weaver - it's on Catra. It's always been on Catra. She doesn't get to pretend to be a victim. She made her choice. And she has to live with that. S4 has Double Trouble repeat those exact same points word for word.

S5 is where Stevenson completely fumbled it. Because starting with s5, Catra is suddenly absolved of the most important thing in a redemption arc: Taking accountability.

"But Celty," I hear you say, "Catra does take accountability! She apologizes to the people she's hurt! She says she's working on her anger issues!"

Yeah, one measly "uwu I'm sowwy" isn't enough to make up for, let's see: kidnapping, torture, attemtped murder, actual murder, attemtpted genocide, actual genocide and years upon years of physical and emotional abuse.

Two characters in the cast react to Catra suddenly showing up in Camp Good Guy like they should: Frosta and Netossa. And both are immediately convinced that Catra is actually nice now, because Adora said so and so all is forgiven. No need for Catra to actually work to earn these people's trust. No reason to elaborate on how complicated Catra's sheer presence must make everything, because how are the Princesses supposed to feel about suddenly having to work with the ex-leader of the Horde? The woman who took an active part in attacking and destroying their kingdoms?

Other SPOP crits have pointed this out, but it's very convenient that both Scorpia and Mermista, two people Catra has hurt in a far more personal manner, (the destruction of Salineas and the continued abuse toward Scorpia) are chipped and therefor absent from the Good Guy team once Catra and the Best Friend Squad return to Etheria. Once again, Catra is absolved of having to put any work into redeeming herself. Even when everyone unites in the finale, Catra doesn't get to apologize to Scorpia because Scorpia forgets all her character development from s4 and just hugs Catra like nothing bad ever happened between them. Mermista meanwhile is stuck making a joke about Hordak just being let off the hook for war crimes, which is doubly ironic because Catra is right fucking there being portrayed as an uwu poor kitty-cat. We don't get to see how Mermista feels about the woman who destroyed her homeland suddenly being acquitted because she's She-Ra's girlfriend now. Let's not even start with the non-reaction Entrapta has to seeing Catra again. Catra, who Entrapta genuinely believed was her friend, and who not only had her shipped off to Beast Island and, in her mind, certain death, but also let Hordak, who Entrapta had a bond with, believe that Entrapta betrayed and abandoned him. Gentle reminder that Entrapta was so heartbroken about the fact that she really was abandoned on Beast Island by everyone that she started to succumb to the signal in an instant and would have actually died if Bow hadn't snapped her out of it with her hyperfixation. Gentle reminder that Entrapta is capable of holding a grudge, as in s3 she calls Adora out for seemingly having left her behind in the Fright Zone. But because it's Catra, suddenly Entrapta magically doesn't mind having to tend to the woman who shocked her unconscious and had her shipped off to a violent death.

Oh and let's not forget the elephant in the room: Not once, in the entirety of s5 does Catra ever take responsibility for killing Angella. Glimmer suddenly forgets all about Catra being the one who indirectly murdered Angella. She doesn't bring it up once and instead is slowly browbeaten into making nice with Catra through solitary confinement. The Glimmer/Catra friendship in s5 is so forced and so out of nowhere. Bow also forgets that Catra kidnapped him and his best friend/love interest to the Fright Zone and that because of her, Glimmer was suffering from her powers going haywire for quite a while, which, may I remind you, left her with spasms painful enough to have her writhing on the floor unable to move. What is Bow's reaction to Catra when she joins the team? To gush about how cute her sneeze is. I hate it here.

As for the whole "she's working on herself" - no she isn't.

S5 Catra is the exact same person as s1-3 Catra. Only now she gets away with her bs because the writers decided she's a good guy now.

S5 Catra is still a violent, self-serving, abusive asshole. She still blames others for her fuck-ups, still resorts to verbal and physical abuse to deal with her emotions, still would rather have the entire world destroyed than have Adora's world not revolve solely around her. Honestly, Catra saying that she always loved Adora is laughable, because like an episode earlier she left Adora in the woods, crying her eyes out and begging for Catra to stay, during possibly the hardest time of Adora's life. "But she came back!1!!" She came back after, once again, making Adora feel like absolute shit for trying to save people. Not to mention one of the reasons Adora was so deadset on stopping Horde Prime, even at the cost of her own life, was that Catra literally begged her to. Catra told Adora that if Horde Prime wasn't stopped, they'd all be looking toward a fate worse than death. Then suddenly towards the finale, Catra changes her tune and whines that Adora has decided to take the Heart, making it out like Adora just loves playing hero, when the show literally spells it out that Adora is the only one who can do this. Everyone else would literally die if they took the Heart. Adora/She-Ra is the last hope Etheria, no, the universe has at this point. Again, that's not just in Adora's head, that's something the plot itself confirms over and over again. But we're still supposed to side with Catra when she pushes Adora into the dirt and victim-blames her.

[elizamgarts]

⚠️Rant incoming ⚠️

I know this isn't my usual posts but recently I believe it has to be said.

This mostly applies to tik Tok but still it needs to be said in the fandom as a whole.

I understand She ra is a female driven show, it's meant for the girls. I fully understand that and makes sense why most of the girls get the spotlight. But that doesn't excuse blatant dismissal to other characters.

Even in the show there's a very clear favoritism and it's heavily in your face it's honestly crazy.

If you haven't guessed I'm talking about Catra. The fandom and show babies and favors her over even the title character, in a way fine but the fans treat her like she is a baby who needs protection but at the same time is a badass lesbian bitch who can overtake anyone.

So which is it? A baby kitten? Or badass lesbian? You can't have both.

Catra stans really make me wanna pull my hair out from how delusional and annoying they can be. Especially when they despise one character for understandable reasons.

Like yes I get it, Hordak done a lot of terrible shit, he's my favorite character but I do not excuse his behavior for what he did to Etheria.

I'm fully onboard with him serving his time to make up what he did and rebuild what he destroyed.

But Catra? Where's her punishment? Where's her due justice for her crimes?

The show never mentions it. The fans gloss over it cause she's Adora "girlfriend" now she serves no punishment she's a sad kitten.

No.

Absolutely not, I'm sorry but the favoritism is absolutely insane, Catra has hurt far more people personally than Hordak, Catra should equally be held accountable for her actions.

But she isn't. She never is, and the bullshit redemption she had is so ass it's insane the show got away with it.

She never changed, she only says she's working on her anger but she never does. The show refuses to let her be accountable for her actions.

What's to enjoy with her character?

She abused everyone, she gets praised cans called a badass by being abelist to Hordak in the one scene she "takes over the horde"

Let's not forget her sending Entrapta to her death pretty much when she shipped her to beast Island fully knowing nobody comes back from that place.

She killed Glimmer's mother by being the one responsible for pulling the lever.

Let's not forget her years and years of abuse on Adora yet the show forced them together because 'hot lesbians"

All of this, all of the people Catra hurt and she never gets held accountable, what does she get? She gets to join the best friend squad and did absolutely nothing to earn it while Entrapta who's worked her ass off to change and be better never once is officially part?.

The favoritism is crazy.

Why is Catra Trauma taken absolutely seriously and demands to be respected yet everyone else's Truama doesn't't exist?

How is that fair?

And I only post this because recently I guess I hold deep rooted disdain for Characters character because she reminds me far too much of my mother.

My mother was physically and mentally and emotionally abusive, she use to hit me if I made a mistake yell and blame me for something I have no control over, gets upset if I don't do things her way. Or if she doesn't get her way she gets upset and makes me feel like shit for not wanting to do something or for how I feel.

Then manipulates me by showing love and affection only to act the absolute same, nothing changes, I have to work to make her happy when it shouldn't be that way.

All of this is very similar to Catra, she manipulates others into getting what she wants, she abused others physically and emotionally.

She acts victim when things don't go her way.

Her character hits far to close to home for me and it makes me resent and hate her character because I sympathize far more to those she hurt over her. Because she shouldn't be getting away with this. She should work to actually change not say she changed.

I love her design, she has a great design and I still love to draw her but her character?

Her "redemption"

It's so horrible and so terrible I cannot find any liking to the character.

I know this rant is all over the place but it's something I needed to address. And it's something the fans need to understand, I don't hate Catdora because I'm homophobic, I don't want Catra to die or any shit like that. I just want a fleshed out character that gets a better redemption and other characters to get equal attention as her. But all I can settle for is fics.

I do hope Catra stans understand this. But this is why I absolutely hate Catra.

Keep in mind I don't wanna do these rants a lot on my page, I'm a artist page not a rant page but I needed to get this off my chest.

[youshouldjustliveinmychurch]

Catra and Adora were taught to physically fight from the time they were young children, which I think is so interesting because we see the negative impact of that on their relationship. Obviously that's an unhealthy way to deal with things. They don't really know how to express their emotions or vulnerability very well. In Adora's words, she's used to punching her feelings out. In their horde days we see that one of the main ways they express affection for each other is roughhousing. Constantly. They mainly just tackle each other and playfight. It's a kind of physical touch that's more easily allowed within their framework than any kind of gentleness. While that's partially due to their dynamic in general, it quickly becomes sinister once they're actually on opposite sides of the war and are fighting with the intention to defeat. Another user posted about their fighting and the unspoken emotion behind it since they haven't been taught to express themselves in a heathy way (couldn't find the post so feel free to tag OP!). Because of their particular kinds of trauma, neither of them are able to be vulnerable and listen to the other while also explaining their feelings. For the first four seasons they're pretty much shouting at each other without any active listening going on. That lack of vulnerability and understanding is symbolized by their physical fights. What makes season 5 so good (at least in part) is The Shift™️ to gentleness.

Adora's been in an environment with people around her who have helped her start to recover from her trauma. Catra just starts to get that chance once she's rescued from horde prime. And it takes time. There's a lot to unpack there and it's not easy, but slowly Catra starts to heal as well away from the Horde. And their dynamic changes. We still see moments when they regress (their fight immediately after Save the Cat and the scene where Catra leaves again both moments when they aren't really listening to what the other person is saying - healing isn't linear), but there's something else there as well. They put their hands on each other's cheeks, Adora puts her hand on Catra's shoulder, they cradle each other, Catra holds Adora's shoulders as she helps her to the heart. And there's the moment in the spaceship where they've been fighting once again and Catra's exterior breaks and she's vulnerable. Catching Adora's wrist, her hand slides down to gently caress Adora's and she asks her to stay. This moment mirrors the moment in the first season where Adora catches Catra's wrist, asking her to come with her and Catra pulls away. Rather than the wrist (still a somewhat detached touch), Catra's hand slides down intentionally taking her hand. Ughhhhhh. My little heart. Before when they're holding hands, it's usually accidental or almost unavoidable during a fight. They're pulling each other off of cliffs or grabbing hands in a mind-bending reenactment of their memories. But this is something else: intentional gentleness which I think is such a crucial element of Catra's redemption, the development of their relationship, and the healing of their trauma.

Once Catra is out of the horde, she has the chance to start to feel safer and is able to be more emotionally vulnerable along with the fact that there are boundaries. Violence won't be tolerated and Catra has to change her behavior in order to be close to Adora, which I think is important. They start listening to each other and helping each other heal by validating the other's needs while putting themselves in each other's shoes. This peaks at the moment that Catra is finally able to express her love for Adora, which she's never had the ability to do before because of her insecurity, trauma, and fear of vulnerability. With that narrative resolution and progression, they finally kiss. Gentleness and vulnerability is what they were never allowed before and it's the thing that embodies their healing. Nothing that hasn't been said before by other posters but ughhhhhhhhhhhhh

[jesncin]

I just learned that MAWS’s design for Lois is partly based off a character named Luz, from some Disney cartoon called Owl House. I find this interesting since this Luz character is supposed to be Afro-Latina, yet MAWS used her design for a Korean-American Lois. But more weirdly, Luz is a 14-year-old teenage character, and they used this as basis for a 23-year-old Lois. I think this is why MAWS Lois’s face looks weirdly young, and she’s always smaller than Clark so she looks like a teenager.

Huh so I thought this was just something the internet pointed out at large but it looks like the MAWS crew essentially lightly confirmed that Lois looks like Luz because someone who worked on the Owl House also worked on MAWS. Which is a stretch by association but also frankly, why? As you said, one is Korean American and the other is Afro Latina. I'm seeing people even say that Lois/Luz look like S5 Catra from She Ra (another show the crew are very vague about confirming character's races/ethnicities). It feels like series animation has a comfortable "ambiguously brown girl face" they like falling back on and it's really annoying! Like if we can dunk on Disney Princesses for having the same face, surely this is also worthy of criticism?

Especially in regards to Lois being the eldest character here (as a 23 year old in MAWS)- it's so unfortunate that by association and poor character design, we're not allowing her to look like a young woman. She's infantilized in both design and writing. I have no issue with her being short or generally young looking (I too am short and constantly mistaken as a teenager not just by white people), but it's clear many variables are at play in infantilizing a character historically meant to be an accomplished woman with her shit together.

I think we need to be critical of the fact white Lois is allowed to be a successful and independent career woman while the minute we get an Asian Lois outside of the comics, we get an Asian Lois who is "the worst Lois in the multiverse" and is adorkable quirky spunky girlie who needs the help of men to get hired by the Daily Planet. What does that say about what we think of Asian Women.

[txttletale]

idk how to put this sorry if this comes off as rude/confrontational I'm not trying to be — when you say stories about forgiveness/reconciliation, do you mean more the type about forgiving & reconciling with family, or more generally (so like including - this isn't the best example but I can't think of any better rn - catra for example? where it's about being trapped in hurting people because of trauma and breaking out of that)? or is the thing you dislike more stories' framing of forgiveness as a moral imperative?

sorry if this doesn't make sense I'm just curious what you think bc you've raised some interesting points and would really like to see you elaborate on them

don't worry you don't come off as rude whatsoever! while i think my points apply broadly to how forgiveness is treated across media (rare actual example of cultural christianity) -- i obviously am not, like, against forgiveness or stories about forgiveness on principle. what i dislike about all the narratives about people forgiving their abusive parents is that:

like you said, it's always framed as a moral imperative. there is always an underlying assumption that forgiving the abuser is the 'right' and 'correct' thing to do, that not doing so would be wrong. this is tremendously insulting to survivors who have every right to not forgive their abusers!

in most of these narratives, the parent barely does shit to be forgiven. there's very often a narrative equivocation, in fact, between parent and child. like, sometimes the parent won't even be expected to apologize -- sometimes, even more grotesquely, both the parent and child apologize for their shared supposed 'wrongdoing'. this is also obviously insulting to survivors, who are not in any way responsible for their abuse or for having a poor relationship with their parents.

the reason why this in particular pisses me off so much is that it mirrors and in turn contributes to the cultural expectation on abuse victims in real life to maintain contact with their abusers, the constant casual pressure from everything from strangers to friends to acquaintances saying 'well, can't you just put it behind you?' or 'look, he's changed' or 'she's your mom' or 'you'll only have one chance to have a relationship with your siblings' or whatever the fuck. the sanctity of the family is a cardinal value across a lot of societies and this sanctity means a constant, neverending societal pressure to bow to sweeping abuse under the rug. i've seen many people i care about struggle deeply with feeling obligated to maintain relationships with family members who treat them like shit and make htem miserable every time they interact bc of exactly these sorts of sentiments being everpresent in their cultural environment. & these narratives always paint that sort of pressure as being well-founded and fair and ultimately for the better, which is absolutely repellent to me.

so, yeah. i am not against narratives where an abusive person actually confronts their actions and changes and repairs that relationship (that's another fucking thing, these narratives always put the onus and responsiblity on the character who was abused to forgive rather than on the abuser to earn forgiveness, just like in real life familial abuse victims are always fucking expected to be the ones to repair the relationship). i think such narratives can be powerful and compelling and explore questions of what the value of 'forgiveness' or 'redemption' even are, as well as dispel the mystique and exceptionalism often attributed to the 'abuser' as a holistic malevolent figure that can be cleanly separated from every other parent/grandparent/sibling/etc.

what i'm against is narratives where someone who is abused has their feelings delegitimized -- their rage is wrong, counterproductive, they need to let go and move on, they need to forgive their abusers and let them back int otheir lives because oh, they did something wrong too or oh, their abuser had a difficult life, or whatever the fuck. to which the answer should be a flat -- no. they don't. all the more power to people who choose to do that if that's what makes them happiest and safest but absolutely nobody has a moral obligation or need to forgive an abusive family member. obviously i am exaggerating slightly when i say every abusive parent subplot should end with the parent being killed with hammers, but i'm using the hammer murder as a synechdoche for a narrative treating an abuse victim's antipathy towards their abuser as something legitimate and justified and obviously reasonable rather than a flaw or something they need to move past.

[that-one-kiddo-in-the-back]

The Harley Quinn show is amazing... probably.

Okay, so when I was in like middle school, I was a huge DC fan. I'm not as much anymore as I've dedicated my life to Star Wars. Now, Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy are my favorite femfatile villains and have been the lesbian couple Gotham really didn't want, but the LGBTQ fans needed. Both have been abused by the men in their lives and found companionship with each other. Now let see how Lily sees it.

So Lily isn't a fan of the DC universe. Mainly, her problem stems from batman saying that she stopped caring about batman when it became something dark and edgy and used the dark knight as an example of it getting too dark, which if you're gonna blame something for a franchise for getting to dark don't use the dark knight. The batman franchise has been a dark thing way before 2008. Batman, in the 85 years he's been around, has always had a dark streak. All of the villains are crazy patients with a killer clown running around a corrupted city and the main hero becoming who he is after the death of his parents. If you want to blame something for how Batman is now. Blame the dudes in charge in 1939.

Now, Harley Quinn has been the Jokers "girlfriend" ever since her first appearance in 1992. With them being an off and on relationship. Lily says that the abuse Harley goes through with the joker is never really touched upon, which is both true and not. Everyone in comics and shows knows that Harley is in an unhealthy relationship, and all have asked why she stays. It's not that it's not touched upon. it's more of everyone knowing she's not gonna leave him, no matter what he does to her. To everyone around her, they know Harley doesn't want to leave the joker, so why bother convincing her. Like Lily said, you can't help someone who doesn't want it.

Lily starts talking about Ivy and how dispirit the fact that she's a doctor (most of the villains are doctors in their own field) she sexualized except for The Batman where she's just a teenager. Then she talks about clayface being a D list villain who's now a struggling actor (he always was). While she's talking about other characters, her straw man is constantly asking Lily what she thinks of Harley Quinn herself and spoiler alert she doesn't like Harley. What a surprise.

She claims that Harley's character is boring and is only centered around the love between her and Ivy and the abuse between her and the Joker now that might be true for the show which is pretty lame if you don't want to read her comics but what makes me mad is that Lily thinks that Harley being a stand alone villain never made sense because she has no evil goal like Ivy or the penguin but the Joker also doesn't have a goal either. A villain doesn't need to have a goal to do evil things, and Harley is no different. Harley Quinn is straight up crazy thanks to the chemical dunk and has HPD (Histrionic Personally Disorder), meaning she does things for attention. She doesn't need to have a goal in mind to cause trouble, and personally, I think the scariest villains are the ones who start shit just because they could.

Lily then goes on to say that Harley is only a villain because of the people she's dating, then brings up how Harley was the Jokers therapist but threw it away because of

"Bog standard fangirl hybristophilia"

Harley was fucking manipulated by the Joker to see if he could make her fall in love with him not because she had a thing for bad boys. I have not seen the Harley Quinn show, so please tell me that's not what the writers wrote in for her backstory.

I try to watch the whole video, but her saying that a victim of manipulation and abuse did this to herself because she had Bonnie and Clyde syndrome pissed me off so much that I couldn't finish it. All I can say is that Lily really has a problem with victim characters, and we've seen it time and time again from her hating Hunter to Catra, how she's willing to end friendship to save her own mental health and completely forgetting that the person who is reaching out probably has no one else to go to. Lily has no empathy, but I didn't need to tell you that.

[stanlunter]

I'm kinda curious why you don't like catradora? Is it just not your thing or do you have reasons? Just kinda curious as I almost always only see the "they were enemies! And that makes it too toxic!" But I saw you like catra/glimmer so yeah, just curious as someone who personally likes it but also hasn't watched the show in ages

Thank you for your question

Yeah, I do hate it, mb not its fans (or at least not all of them, cuz most of them are actually super annoying, but anyways) tho. Also sorry for my bad English

As for the reasons, there are actually many reasons:

Starting with, like you said

1. Being toxic. But the difference with Glitra is that in their way It's not like Catra abuses Glimmer, no, they hate each other mutually, there ia no "abuser x victim" dynamic, bc they hurt each other mutually. Also there are no manipulations, guilt-trips, gaslighting and etc, they are completely honest with each other. While with Adora, their dynamic is rather "abuser x victim" than "enemies to lovers" bc Adora never wanted to hurt Catra, she was always only ensuring what Catra's doing and saying. Adora was always holding back, never tried to kill Catra or make her feel like nothing or hate herself and all her fights were litterally either self-defense or defense of her friends or other people who were attacked by Catra. While Catra always tried to hurt Adora, both mentally and physically, tried to kill her many times, tried to make her hate herself and etc, etc. She was the reason why Adora had such a strong hero complex and always wanted to sacrafice herself. Adora litterally had panic attacks bc of Catra. And the whole "it was a war" argument doesn't work here bc being a war criminal doesn't make Catra any better and bc Catra was toxic to Adora even when they were on the same side. She was always jealous, controlling, possesive and didn't want Adora to have other friends. She wanted Adora to belong to her, which was shown many times. Also she physically hurt her many times, gaslighted her and etc. So their relationship would be much more abusive than Glitra relationship. And what makes it even worse is that Catra has learnt all her abusive traits from SW - recognized Adora's abuser. Catra litterally copies everything the main abuser who has traumatized Adora in the forefront does, which is actually creepy af too. Even she tortures Adora in s4 she says that she took the idea from SW. So she just takes the abuse she (and Adora) has been throught and intentionally uses it against Adora

Even if you have a kink for abusive ship, you should write them well and not put them in a kid show, normalizing abuse by this. There are examples of good enemies to lovers in kid shows which aren't abusive and It's fine (like Dipper/Pacifica, Talon/Penny, Bubblegum/Marcelin kinda, Amaya and Janai (It's good and It's wlw too), even Glimmadora would work since they were enemies too and etc).

2. The whole being "basically adoptive sisters" thing. They aren't actual sisters, but they were actually implied to be so. I won’t even mention every time the CREW referred to them this way (however, there were many times), but the main problem is that their whole relationship is fully based on the "Skapegoat & Golden child" dynamic. And SW is a mother figure who loves one child and hates the other one, who always tries to earn her love and jealous and hate the favourite child. Some people say SW was just a teacher and not a mom figure, but it would be a lie at least bc 1. The crew has stated SW as a mother figure, so It's canon anyways 2. It was said by Adora that SW was like a mother to her 3. You don't try to earn your teacher's LOVE like Catra does 4. The whole thing that SW sees herself in Catra and wanted fulfil her ambitions throught Adora. Also SW wasn't a mother figure for other cadets, it wasn't actually her duty to teach Lonnie, Kyle, Rogelio and others. She was a right hand, not a teacher and she was there only for Adora bc she decided so and for Catra bc Adora wanted so. So, even if you're trying to ignore it, It's a huge part of the plot and a base of their relationship. Oddly enough, but many catradora shippers actually love to admit that "SW was a bad abusive mother", "Catra & Adora have mommy issues", "Adora is a favourite child" and etc, yet when you point it out, they start denying it. I find it strange.

Another thing is subjective, just my personal vision, but I highly dislike all "childhood friends" ships (mb with exceptions if they always actually had feelings for each other, but in catradora case we find out about it only later, especially from Adora's perspectice). Also there is a biological theory that if kids know each other since the age under 6, they see each other as siblings anyways, especially if they grow up together in the same house, especially with the sams parent figure. So, even tho it's subjective, It's an important reason to ms. And I actually did thought of them so and thought everyone does untill I joined the fandom. So even if I don't recognize "see each other as siblings" thing when it comes to usual friends who haven't been grown up together, I do with those who have. Flr example, Renora. This ship was always weird to me and when they become canon, it didn't make me love it. I don't think It's problematic, but it absolutely does make me feel uncomfortable. Like, if you haven't developed your feelings for each other for during these 10 years you were together, where are the feelings suppose to come from later?

But yeah, childhood friends thing is my subjective reason

3. Catra's redemption arc was horrible. And redemption arc is one of the most important things when it comes to enemies-to-lovers, since It's the thing that suppose to help them become canon. Everyone immidiatly has to forgive Catra and no one calls Catra out for what she has done. Even Glimmer, who's mom was killed bc of Catra or Adora who has been abused by Catra for years. And so Catra doesn't even actually changes. She just swaps sides and immidiatly becomes Adora's gf. That's the problem. If you write enemies-to-lovers, do it well

4. The whole way the shis was handled. It just doesn't make sense and completely ruins the whole development of almost all characters. Adora's development is getting destroyed and she just comes back to s1 Adora. Her whole arc was about stopping blaming herself for Catra's actions, separating from her abusers and getting a life. But she just ends up forgiving Catra and considering Catra a victim of herself. And starts blaming herself for "leaving" Catra again. They just forget everything they've been throught. And what about Catra? Catra was obsessed the whole time. She hated Adora and liked hurting her. Catra was litterally addictive to Adora. It wasn't love, it was possesion. And giving an addict a drug isn't a way to go. Catra should separated from Adora, learn how to live without the idea of being "either with her, or againt her". That's why I think her leaving the Horde with Scorpia and going to a Crimson waste would be the best happy ending for her. She would get a life, get what she wanted (being loved), what she needed and what she deserved and let her issues go. So they just aren't good for each other. Having Adora around was always hurting Catra, Catra never was able to fully show herself when Adora was with her in the Horde and she even saya that Adora leaving gave her a chance to fulfil her actual potential, so Adora leaving was the best thing happened to her. Even if Catra wasn't fully agree with her own words, it was basically truth, bc Catra actually did feel bad bc of Adora when they were together (it wasn't Adora's fault, but still). Catra was always blaming Adora for her problems and didn't stop even in s5. So It was bad not only for Adora, but for Catra as well

Also Adora never even loved Catra before. If Catra's possesion can be called love at some point, it doesn't work this way with Adora. Yeah, Adora cared about Catra as a friend, but DT was right, Adora didn't need Catra. She didn't have such big problems with letting Catra go. After s1 she forgot Catra and never recalled her as a friend, only as an enemy. So her whole "I love you too" thing just came out of nowhere and was a lie. Just like "I never hated her" bc Adora did and it was shown. Adora got new friends who care about her and getting Catra was absolutely unnecessary for her. It doesn't work even as a Stockholm Syndrome or a trauma bond, bc it was never shown and Adora got a development

Actually, if it did make sense, mb I would like it, but unfortunately it really doesn't and only ruines everything the show has been building for years, which is sad, cuz I used to love both Catra and Adora

It's also strange to me how shippers compare catradora to so many actually good wlw couples like Korrasami, Harlivy, Caitvy, Lumity, Bumbleby, Chaggie and etc, while in reality their relationship is much closer to Tauradonna (which is actually hated by Bumbleby shippers, which is ironic) and Citrus and actually Shin Soukoku and Simon/Grace, or even some actual/ almost actual siblings like Vi/Jinx, Zuko/Azula, Rapunzel/Cassandra, Claudia/Soren, Qrow/Raven, Maki/Mai, Nightwing/Red hood, Thor/Loki, White queen/ Red queen and etc.

But I would prefer to compare it to Shin Soukoku tho

So, these are the main reasons. Actually I don't understand why can't catradora shippers just admit that their ship is problematic and enjoy it as it is, bc it doesn't really make sense to just make ship a full ooc and make it romantic and sweet to like it, bc it litterally goes against the whole point and everything it always has been. So I have a big respect for those shippers who do admit the problems and enjoy it without lying to themselves and gaslighting others tbh

Anyways, thanks for a question, it was actually interesting to answer it and you can feel free to asnwer, desagree or agree, Im not a hater or smth

[catras-breakup-song]

once upon a time a person said they were confused (or something?? i cant remember) why people hated shadow weaver but loved catra when they weren't really different. i want to know your thoughts on it because like, why is it that way?

i do somewhat agree with that logic, partially.

down to the core of who catra is (or in other words, was supposed to be in a better alternate universe) authentically, it's not true. however, inadvertently she did end up becoming shadow weaver and that was ultimately her goal all along in order to survive. i've most frequently seen this be attributed to her work in season four where it's most prominent in both design & actions, but truly it actually starts once she initially gets the promotion to force captain and finds motivation to put more effort into contributing to the horde. after all, shadow weaver says this in 2x03: "being me isn’t quite what you imagined, is it?"

so on the surface, that person you're talking about is absolutely correct. the problem i have on a deeper level is that catra and shadow weaver do not have the same intentions or environmental influences. the latter wants power for the sake of greed and legacy when she doesn't need it; the former wants power to be worth something and prove that discarding her life would be a mistake (again, survival mechanism). the latter abuses & manipulates subordinates she has complete control over for the satisfaction of causing conflict & anguish for her own entertainment; the former abuses equal peers whom she at one point considered friends because 1) she doesn't understand how to build & keep healthy relationships due to how she was intentionally raised & isolated (guess by whom?!) + 2) she's lashing out of repressed feelings of hurt, anger, betrayal, fear, & anxiety. these don't make it right by any means, but from a humanizing perspective, they're very reasonable responses to perceived injustice and rational preventative measures against the cause of those emotions to happen again.

although it's not directly related to your question, there is something very interesting i'd like to mention... when catra goes on a tirade in 4x13 about how she doesn't need anyone to achieve her goals, she lists these people: adora, scorpia, entrapta, hordak

who isn't included despite also leaving catra behind? shadow weaver. neither is double trouble even though that part hadn't happened with them yet, but it was about to, so sshhh. why? well, because that goal had already been achieved in this scene from 4x01, among everything else throughout the season, which was to seize control and keep competitors down by force (sound familiar?):

i genuinely believe catra & shadow weaver's relationship is one of the most compelling in the entire series and i'm always intrigued every time someone explores it!

[loganofthenorth]

As promised, I present Glimmer for my Shera Swap AU!

This is the design I’m most excited about because Glimmer has the most changes to her origins out of all the characters

In this AU, Lord Hordak sent both Angelica and Michah to Beast Island, but attempted to use Angelica’s dna to make an immortal clone of himself. Instead he wound up with an accidental daughter that is extremely headstrong and loyal to him.

Hordak is basically like: God fucking dammit. Guess I’m a dad now.

But if anyone harms Glimmer he will annihilate them.

Glimmer becomes besties with Adora and Bow, which solidifies their loyalty to the horde.

She fights constantly Catra and competes with her over everything, which solidifies Catra getting shunned and outcasted by the Horde.

Shadow Weaver’s manipulation doesn’t work in Glimmer because she out manipulates her.

Glimmer puts the fact that she’s theoretically immortal to the test. Constantly. Her father is incredibly stressed out by this.

Laudie, Rogelio, and Kyle don’t like Glimmer because she’s a huge snitch, she constantly picks fights and competes with people, and she treats Kyle like an errand boy.

Out of respect for Adora and Bow, she hasn’t killed anyone…

(Yet)

When Catra betrays the Horde, Glimmer is unphased.

Glimmer: It was bound to happen eventually. She has the loyalty of a thief.

Bow: Actually thieves tend to be really loyal to their team…

Glimmer: I- well… Sometimes, I guess, but you know what I meant.

Glimmer is the only one of the Best Friend Squad that never questions the Horde or its motives. Not in the beginning at least. It’s only when she learns about Queen Angelica and King Micah that she considers betraying the Horde, but that won’t be until a long way off.

She’s also the reason Entrapta betrays the Horde and joins the Rebellion, since she constantly abuses Entrapta’s loyalty and talks badly about her, then blatantly doesn’t care when Entrapta gets captured during the first invasion of Bright Moon.

Glimmer: Oh my gosh! This is amazing! Now Bow gets to be promoted!

Bow and Adora: Glimmer now is not the time. We are grieving the loss of a friend.

Glimmer: But she was so annoying

Laudie: (sarcasm) Hmm. I wonder why people keep betraying us.

Adora and Glimmer: Not now Laudie!

Anywho

When Glimmer discovers a connection to the Moon Stone, she doesn’t form her connection yet. Mainly cause I realized if she does connect with it that activates the huge mega weapon. She just senses the connection. However it’s enough that she starts getting ill afterwards, and Hordak allows a second invasion to steal the moon stone so that it can be studied.

Shadow Weaver tries to prevent the research of the Moon Stone because she doesn’t want the Horde to find out about the weapon built into Etheria. This is what results in her imprisonment.

Glimmer’s really just going to be at the core of everything that goes wrong for the Horde, but she makes up for it by being a power house after she connects with the moon stone.

That is until she tries to go to Beast Island and Adora knocks her out to stop that from happening

But I think I said she ends up on Beast Island anyways?

I don’t remember how but yeah. She will end up there and Bow will join the Princess Alliance in order to save her, since it’s not like Adora can go to Hordak and be like: So, hey, uh… Your daughter got sent to Beast Island. Whoops.

But yeah after Glimmer reunites with Queen Angelica and King Micah she sides with the Alliance and tries to form a bond with her technical mother. Unfortunately Angelica is very hesitant about this artificial child of herself and her worst enemy and also just naturally gets along with Adora more when Adora switches sides.

This of course makes Glimmer angy

Then eventually Glimmer and Adora try to steal back the Moon Stone for the Rebellion so Angelica and Glimmer can be at full power.

Glimmer fully connects with the Moon Stone while Catra is trying to get answers from Light Hope and this activates the Weapon

Then when Catra destroys the weapon Adora, Glimmer, and Hordak (who tried to kill Adora at this time and technically capture Glimmer) get kidnapped onto the ship.

The only reason Glimmer isn’t killed instantly by Horde Prime for being an abomination is because Adora reveals that Glimmer is a key part of the weapon. From there Glimmer is able to advocate for both herself and Adora.

When Catra saves Adora, Bow saves Glimmer. At this point Glimmer tries to convince Bow that she can’t go back to the planet because she’s part of the weapon and Horde Prime can’t have access to it. She believes that Angelica will never care about her and that she needs to stay here with her father because that’s where she belongs, assuming she can convince Horde Prime she isn’t an abomination and is useful to him.

Bow tells Glimmer that it doesn’t matter what Horde Prime or Angelica think. That Glimmer has a family in Adora and himself. He tells her that if she’s nicer to others, that if she treats them with respect, she can find a family in Catra, Scorpia, Entrapta, and the rest of the alliance too. Glimmer agrees to go and Bow helps her figure out how to apologize to everyone for how she’s treated them.

I’m thinking Glimmer will have a really deep ark over the course of the war against Horde Prime where she’s slowly trying to rebuild her relationships with everyone. At some point I think it will be too difficult for her, and she’ll lash out, which will cause Bow to snap at her. The risk of losing her friendship with Bow snaps Glimmer out of her stubbornness, and her attempts become more genuine and vulnerable.

As she slowly grows more patient and more open minded, people start to form genuine friendships with her. Once she becomes her best self and has found strength in kindness and sincerity, feelings develop between herself and Bow.

At the end of the AU’s ‘Season 5’, Angelica will tell Glimmer how proud she is of her, and accept Glimmer as her daughter. Micah, who got along with Glimmer from the get go despite not being her biological father, is happy with this decision and essentially adopts Glimmer as his step daughter.

Hordak still remains her co-dad due to his own redemption ark, but since I’m not sure whether or not I’ll keep Entrapdac since it doesn’t work too well with my plans for Entrapta in this AU, I’ll have to figure out who his ark is centered around. It could be that rather than someone actively pulling him out of Horde Prime’s influence, he fights on his own to reunite with his daughter and protect her.

Yeah, I like that. I think that will be a good story.

So yeah! That’s Glimmer for this AU.

I was thinking of doing Entrapta next, but designing her in Hero Forge would be hard because they don’t have really long pig tails.

I’ll probably do Catra since she’s like, the main character in this au.

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

whenever i say that a character needs therapy and healing before they start a relationship, people jump at my throat and assume that i'm saying that people with mental health issues shouldn't date at all or that they're not deserving of love.

folks. i have bipolar type 2. i'm also a psychology major. trust me when i say that i never said people with mental health issues shouldn't date at all.

i just think that it's a lot healthier to get into a committed relationship once you've started therapy and/or medication. no one is stopping you from getting into a relationship before that, but there is a higher chance of the relationship turning unhealthy and/or complicated. not just for your partner but for yourself as well.

and there are other relationships that people can and should focus on. i would never recommend an individual completely isolate themselves because they're mentally ill. that's the opposite of effective, it will only worsen your mental health.

romantic relationships aren't the only form of love. and when a person focuses solely on their romantic relationship, pushing aside their familial and platonic relationships, there's a higher chance of the person becoming overly dependent on their partner, which can again be unhealthy.

and keep in mind, my criticism is also more from a fictional perspective. stories that ignore a character's trauma and just give them a romantic partner aren't trying to tell you that people with mental health issues deserve love too, they're trying to brush the character's trauma under the rug and hoping that you won't notice.

a lot of these writers seem to genuinely think that romance will “cure” a character, and that's such a harmful mindset because it discourages people from seeking professional help. it's the same logic as thinking that birthing a child will solve relationship problems between a couple - that's just not how it works.

and in cases like catra, it's even worse because catra is not just dating anyone, she's dating the same person she has abused since childhood. this is destructive for both of them, not just adora. we have to realize that toxicity often stems from some kind of trauma (though not always) and it's not ableist to say that an abuser shouldn't be dating their victim.

one good example of a relationship involving a victim of trauma, in my opinion, is steven and connie from steven universe.

steven universe future focuses entirely on steven's deteriorating mental health, caused by all the trauma he endured in the original series. but in the end, after experiencing a mental breakdown, he actually seeks professional help before beginning to date connie.

it must also be mentioned that their relationship had great development since their friendship was already quite healthy and mutually supportive, and connie has been with steven through all his highs and lows. and so, it doesn't feel like this relationship came out of nowhere, just so that steven gets a happy ending.

it's a satisfying conclusion to both of their arcs and even better because they're allowed to stay away from each other and pursue their own goals while still being in a relationship, meaning that there won't be the risk of them becoming codependent.

this is all that i'm asking writers do with their characters with mental health issues/trauma. you can give them a romantic partner, just make sure you address their personal problems too, instead of brushing them under the rug.

[adorawasright]

tumblr keeps recommending me c//a and pro Catra posts, it's both entertaining and irritating. anyway, i'd like to know your thoughts on this post!

personally, i feel like c//a stans misunderstand our point. we keep saying that Catra does deserve a redemption but she doesn't deserve forgiveness, or at least, instantaneous forgiveness when she has put no effort into trying to change. but they take it as "CATRA IS AN IRREDEEMABLE MONSTER WHO DESERVES TO ROT IN HELL" (which, ironically, is what they say about characters like shadow weaver).

also Adora "wanted" Catra in the finale season because that's how the authors wrote her. it made no sense for her character to suddenly want Catra back after it took her so long to finally cut Catra out of her life.

Do not go after the person who wrote the original post. (this is mostly for my other followers)

Tumblr has been doing the same thing to me, too. It showed me a post that said that as similar as Catra was to Shadow Weaver, she improved to be better. Which is a lie, lmao.

I hate that people think redemption and forgiveness are the same thing. You are allowed to improve as an individual, but the people you hurt don't owe you forgiveness. Sadly, SPOP doesn't have a single character that chooses not to forgive Catra. Even though Frosta punched her in the face, she was more accepting of Catra than Entrapta. Same counts for Perfuma and the other princesses. Though I'm pretty sure anyone would be demonized for not believing that "Catra got better!!!". S5 already does this when Adora vents about Catra being a stubborn brat, she just looks pathetic and Glimmer doesn't take her seriously.

And indeed, most stans think characters like Shadow Weaver or Hordak are not allowed to be redeemed, that's really because they're older and physically disabled.

Finally, yeah, Adora in s4 completely gave up on Catra, she didn't hesitate to nearly kill her without any remorse. Adora's priority was her friends, but especially Glimmer. "I want to be the hero she deserves". But you never see C//A stans talking about that, lol. They only bring up Glimmer and Adora's conflict or Glimmadora at all so they can shit on Glimmer and prove that Catra is a better girlfriend. Which is also bullshit.

Adora is allowed to want things, yes, but s5 pretty much sums it up as her wanting Catra of all people. Not her friends, not a family, or knowing more about her origins, idk. Just Catra. It's literally always about her. Adora is not a character that exists outside of Catra anymore. S5 definitely reinforced this, and the fandom only repeats this. It's annoying.

[sapphic-agent]

So, I came across a post that compared how Zutara shippers treat Aang to how Catradora shippers treat Glimmer. And I have to say that this couldn't be more wrong.

The big difference between Glimmer and Aang is that Glimmer apologized. She took accountability for how she treated Adora (and Bow) and tried to make it right. Catra stans/Catradora shippers are hypocritical if they accept Catra's apology but not hers. Adora and Glimmer's conflict was way more both-ways, they both did and said things they didn't mean because they were stressed (and Double Trouble was manipulating them, along with Shadow Weaver getting into Glimmer's head). Adora even admits this herself, which is why she isn't angry at Glimmer. Catra and Adora's issues were way more one-sided, Catra's behavior against Adora was unwarranted.

Meanwhile, Aang never had to take accountability for how he treated Katara and still ended up with her. He got everything he wanted with no repercussions. And it's not like his behavior changed. He's still dismissive of her feelings in the comics. And Katara is the one who has to pay the price, she continues to shove aside her feelings so he can be happy. So not only does this behavior in Aang persist, it escalates at Katara's expense.

If Aang had owned up to what he did, apologized, and changed his behavior like Glimmer did the OP would be right. But he didn't. Glimmer and Aang are nowhere near the same in this context

[spopsalt]

I also found this on the wiki under Catra trivia.

Okay, so… To me, this seems like an issue where both options aren’t great ideas. Because either…

A. They have Catra wear Adora’s shirt. Not getting into the whole ‘girlfriend wears her partner’s clothes after sex trope’, since it’s not a given trope. Some partners just share or steal clothes anyway, no intimacy required. Just saying the association could be there. Not saying it is, but it could be. But ignoring that since it’s not a given, I do have questions. 1. How and when is Catra stealing Adora’s clothes? Adora only changed I to her space suit once and probably didn’t pack anything to bring, so Catra wouldn’t have the opportunity to change when she did. She would’ve had to just yoink it from Adora when she was probably still wearing it. 2. What would Adora wear? Forget not packing for space, the girl didn’t pack when she moved to Brightmoon. It’s probably her ONLY SHIRT PERIOD. Was the plan to have Adora wear her undershirt and jacket? And 3. It’s a shirt. Just a shirt. What was the plan for… Oh I don’t know, pants? Or her weird little sock things? I get they’re not shoes, but maybe they provide Catra with some protection on her feet, like where they’re not padded? So even with a shirt, she’d still be SOL for pants and sock things? Unless the plan was to just work with her boxer shorts and nothing else, or parts of the Horde Prime outfit? Idk. Not thought out, and I’m glad they didn’t do it. And that’s not even getting into the whole joke Nate did with a piece of art where Catra DID steal and tear up Adora’s shirt, just so she couldn’t wear it anymore. There’s taking your partner’s clothes, and then there’s blatant property damage.

On the other hand…

B. They do the outfit they gave Catra. Sure, you could say it’s just here S4 outfit with the sleeve ripped off. But there some details I noticed that lead me to believe it’s an entirely new outfit.

For one, the belt is missing. And maybe I simply am misunderstanding, but to me the belt in the first picture doesn’t look like a belt. It acts more like it’s more or less part of the outfit and sewn in. It lines up into the outfit. The new one has it loose, and is not lining into the outfit, making it a separate accessory in a more obvious way.

The colors are different. I’m probably being nitpicky here, but S4 outfit seems to be leaning more into a red territory, even with the black parts being on a redder spectrum. S5 leans more into orange and brown parts of the spectrum. They still have red, but less so.

And, the most important bit of evidence. CATRA WASN’T WEARING HER S4 OUTFIT WHEN THEY GOT ON THE SHIP. Meaning they didn’t have an old outfit they could have modified anyway. Unless they modded the outfit Prime put her in, which would have been next to impossible since they’re not remotely similar.

So maybe they found some clothes lying around that fit Catra perfectly and matched her aesthetic??? Probably found it with all the First Ones food that wasn’t expired despite being ancient. No idea how it wouldn’t have been eaten away by space-moths or something. Nevermind the fact I’m pretty sure they said the ship was already raided for all it’s worth when they first found it in the Crimson Waste. Not like food or clothing is useful in the desert, but I digress. So I’m left guessing Entrapta made it??? With what materials, idk. I don’t even know where she found the supplies or the time to make the space suits. She was busy with the ship most of the time. But again, that’s just another set of problems that are beside the point.

Hi! Yeah that's a good question. They never describe how they get the clothes, they just put them on out of nowhere, like Catra has the most clothes changes, but how? It doubt the horde gives them clothes soooooo???? Just one plot hole in a show full of plot holes.

[aprillikesthings]

swear to god the amount of time I've spent on this fic that's just looking up release dates of fucking songs/albums like do you KNOW how many times I've had a half dozen tabs open that are just the wikipedia page for [band/person name] discography

because yes I remember that The Beatles' Revolver came out in 1966 but WHEN in 1966, when can I make Adora listen to it while doing homework

for extra-fun points this was back when a lot of music had not only different release dates but the albums had different track lists, between the USA and the UK--American kids had more spending money, on average, than British kids; so American albums tended to be shorter so they could sell the songs as singles and EP's as well. In the case of The Beatles specifically, their really early stuff was across more than one label! Their albums didn't have the same track lists on both sides of the pond until Sgt. Pepper--at that point they insisted on it, and after that the track lists were always the same.

Sgt. Pepper was still released a week later in the USA than in the UK but I wonder if that was like, literally due to the time it took to ship the damn thing across an ocean lolol

Anyway even as an obsessed teenager in the mid-90's I only bothered memorizing the British album names/tracklists, since that's what was released on CD--the singles that weren't on any albums in the UK were released on their own compilations.

I say "bothered memorizing" lol I didn't even do it on purpose it just...happened. I used to be able to just recite the UK full-length albums in order of release.

Wait can I still do it?

Please Please Me, With the Beatles, A Hard Day's Night, ...I'm missing one I think?..., Help!, Rubber Soul, Revolver, Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, Magical Mystery Tour, Yellow Submarine, The White Album, Abbey Road, Let it Be (hah those last two always trip me up bc they were released in a different order than they were recorded)

Okay let me look and see if I fucked up

OH RIGHT the one I missed was Beatles for Sale. To be fair that album has a lot of...less good songs on it. Though it does have Eight Days a Week on it, which is one of my FAVES. And I got Yellow Submarine and the White Album in the wrong order. (To be fair, Yellow Submarine was mostly "leftovers" from recording Sgt. Pepper and Magical Mystery Tour; the White Album is a totally different style)

ANYWAY this was SUPPOSED to be a post about writing my fic lol god I spent all of yesterday going "I need to write....I need to write...." but couldn't get any words down, until I watched a chunk of Monterey Pop on youtube and then voila, words fell into the gdoc. The funny thing is that I know I just recently reblogged a post that was like "if you're stuck, write or at least imagine things later in the story" and I keep refusing to let myself do that even thought it keeps working when I give up and do it. Because of course it's by writing things that happen later that I figure out how to approach scenes that happen earlier!

But also at this point, their senior year is going to be two or three chapters!, and "Catra hitch-hikes to SF" is going to be an entire chapter by itself. My actual chapter listings in the doc are unintentionally hilarious because at this point it's going to be, like, twice as many chapters as I was planning. 😩

That said I think I only need a couple more scenes before this upcoming chapter is finally done? But at this rate, by the time they graduate high school the rest of the fic will be basically done hahhhhh