#both in meguri and in sotsu

[earthenterran]

(higurashi meguri manga) akarigurashi 4.4

this. this is what i've wanted.

[jinxofarc]

Wait people are saying Sotsu is better than Meguri? Did they trip acid and watch a different anime….?? The version of this story that’s better to you is the one with Rika having 0 agency, a bunch of reused footage and bad gore, stripping Satoko of any meaningful motivation, and the weirdly nihilistic ending is better then one where everyone helps Rika outsmart Satoko, SHOWS both of them how much they care, and Satoshi comes back? I remember why I took a break from WTC it gets exhausting in here

[timeloopinganalysis]

Higurashi Meguri 18.3 Raw Spoilers Thoughts

Okay, so first thing's first:

Pros:

Really like the shot of Rika and Satoko looking so tired. While I don't really understand the dialogue (had quit studying Japanese pretty early), I love how Rika and Satoko have this unspoken begrudging understanding. At least that's how I took it.

Satoko is at the same footing as Rika. They're both standing at the same place, and Satoko couldn't be any more miserable.

That or I'm just doing too much analysis.

Cons:

We're....still in the club. This arc is going painfully slow compared to the other ones. I'm honestly pretty fed up. Yes, I appreciate Rika and the club talking to Satoko (though I do like some aspects of Sotsu more than Meguri), but...

Why is everything still going on in the school? In the same room? I thought previously it was because I was just consuming these raw chapters the moment they come out (work ends like 4 hours before so it's perfect), but like...at this point I'm tired.

I want Rika to question why and how Satoko gained these powers. Without a clear understanding of Satoko's situation, I fear Rika would just doom herself again.

We still have Eua that is probably cackling madly in the background.

[sliceofhorror]

think the main problem w higurashi gousotsu/meguri really is just the pacing. both of them seem like they can never figure out how fast or slow paced they wanna be. sotsu focused too much on stuff that could have been summarized/skimmed over so that they could focus more on important things (i really would have liked more of a deep dive into satoko in general or mion's thoughts during her L5 moments, i feel they really just gave us surface level in general).

meguri did start off really good, i did really enjoy this take on satoko's motivation for staying in the loops, but now its going so so fast and focusing on nothing at all. slow down !

[ultraericthered]

Something else that’s really grinding my gears? This goddamn story arc currently running in the Higurashi Meguri manga, and that ran in the Higurashi Sotsu anime in 2021. I mean, questionable pervert-bait panels of underage Satoko aside, it seems strange to say this since I recently remarked on how well Meguri did with Teppei, and now with its recent update it’s continuing to do well with Ooishi too, and all throughout, our main star Satoko has just been an absolute delight, being very funny and endearing while also a deep, tragic character.

But those are all effective parts and pieces of a larger whole. In the anime, those parts being as surprisingly strong and effective as they were by Gou/Sotsu standards made Curse Revealing the highlight of Sotsu. In the Meguri manga, it and its earlier question arc are the weakest arcs in spite of the parts that work. In both versions, this question and answer arc pair falls short of full potential because they are, at the most fundamental level, not what they should’ve been.

It’s something I’d stated before: Again, neither version of this story arc got it 100% right, as it was doomed from the offset by being chained to callbacks to the original Curse Killing AND Massacre Chapters that have to be done twice and with a very, very gross and unsettling subversion at its core.

The “very, very gross and unsettling subversion” is, of course, the fact that Satoko, a canonical victim of child abuse from the OG story, is now lying about being abused to two separate parties who believe her and take the abuse/bullying allegations dead seriously and fight to protect her because they love and care about her so much...all set against a backdrop that mirrors the story arc from the OG story where the abuse was really happening to her and her friends really fought for her by rallying the entirety of Hinamizawa to the cause of helping her save herself from the abuse at the hands of her uncle, who in this new story is one of the many dupes Satoko is decieving.

It just does not work as a premise and is not only spitting in the face of Ryukishi07′s earlier (and far better) writing, but in the face of real life child abuse situations where the victim is suffering in silence, needs to speak out and needs to be believed, helped, and defended from their abuser. If you look at any such situation with the mindset of “well, what if the child is lying about getting abused and bullied so horribly and is just playing folks against each other for the lulzs?”, rescuing children from bullying and abuse that unreliable adults and systems enable and allow to befall them becomes that much harder.

For a “subversive take” on what went down for the bulk of the Massacre Chapter of OG Higurashi, this is all that was needed:

See, the latter is the reverse of the former, not a gross distortion of it. Satoko gets to lie and decieve and play others for suckers in her game against Rika while not having to rely on being dishonest about something that was very real and very serious in the original work.

[mirchloe]

being a hater for a moment, but i think continued punishment or enduring the weight of your "sin/mistakes" for the rest of your life is one of the worst ways to end a story like in meguri forcing satoko to simply live with what she's done instead of the narrative actually engaging with the reasons why or providing substance to her actions that was clearly there in sotsu.

for pn, i'm glad there wasn't a continued punishment, a constant need for lucy or ford to endure the weight of their past. punishment is not the answer for past crimes or cruelty, especially with the poignancy of an ending that is tinged with melancholy, but it's far more hopeful and healing. lucy still killed her sister and wiped out thousands. ford still swept lucy under the rug, and replaced both her and augustus' memories, and he punished himself by cracking his own brain. years passed, and the pain was still present, festeruing underneath, especially in regards to the subsequent passing of the anti-psychic torch between lucy, augustus, and his children, with dion and frazie especially passing it on to raz, who finally had enough and ran away because of the pain foisted upon him because of a lack of acceptance. they've suffered enough. there didn't need to be a "lucy needs to pay for her crimes" or "ford needs to repent for the rest of his life." with augustus and his children, there is bittersweet beauty in how he still needs to come with terms about his past being a cultivated lie, how he was raised by the killer of his mother whom he still loves and wants to protect, how he spread those sentiments to his children based entirely on falsehoods, how his oldest children are still processing a life that was fueled by anti-psychic rhetoric, propaganda, and fear. and for raz, he has his entire life ahead of him.

there's kindness in being able to simply move on, to live in the future with what they have now. there doesn't need to be any further punitive pains, "calling out" behavior, or demands to live with regrets for the rest of their lives. for lucy and ford, who suffered and inflicted pain equally, being able to return to where they were is probably the happiest ending bequeathed to them, with what time they have left. as for augustus and his children, they still have time to process what they've endured, no matter how many years pass before raz decides to confront what happened, and for that, i think the ending to pn2 carries an unspoken sincerity.

[connan-l]

There was this theory going around when Higurashi Reiwa was first announced about how Sakiko could actually be Shion and Satoshi’s daughter, but because they died/disappeared for X reason Satoko then adopted her, and I admit that even now I’m still very attached to it.

Because the thing is that, like a lot of people Satoko’s portrayal and situation in Reiwa really bothers me. Technically speaking, I don’t think there’s something inherently wrong with the perspective of her marrying some random person in adulthood or even for it to be a man (like, personally I definitely see Satoko as a lesbian since GouSotsu, but canonically it’s never been confirmed so Bi Satoko is still an option), but it still feel very... off to make an entire sequel series like Gou/Sotsu/Meguri that very much focuses on her explicit romantic feelings for her female friend with taking a lot of codes from yuri/queer stories, and then ending this with her having a very Normal Nuclear Family; even if it is in some parallel fragment it can’t help but leave a sour taste in my mouth.

Satoko in Reiwa just manages to makes me sad because the manga so far only portrayed her as being A Mom or A Wife, doing a job that genuinely don’t feel like her at all, and being married to a man where I don’t see what she would like about him. I’ve seen people argue that it does makes sense for Satoko to try to find this kind of stability post-canon; get married into a 'safe' family like the Kimiyoshis, who are obviously well-established and important within the village (so that it guarantees her acceptance and place in Hinamizawa), and have a kid before the others to solidify this, which, yeah, I agree --- in a way it could be a pretty interesting concept to explore. But that’s still in the perspective of if this takes place in a depressing future where Satoko never got over and confront her issues/trauma, and I very much doubt that this is something Ryukishi ever intended to explore in Reiwa at all --- or, even something that he actually intended period, I think he just wanted a next generation of kids and that’s how it ended up. (Reiwa isn’t finished, so it could still surprises me, but given the story has been very much focused on the kids so far I really doubt we’ll get this kind of insight about the adults.)

But anyway, to comes back to what I wanted to say, all of this asides I never really saw Satoko as someone who would become a mother or really want to be one. I don’t think she’d be opposed to it; and I can see an argument made for it because she’s someone who does love nurturing and taking care of her loved ones, and there could be something very meaningful about her becoming a parent and navigating this with her own past family trauma and let her heal that way. But, in an ideal world where she gets to adulthood as a more balanced, happy person, I don’t think she’d go out of her way to become a parent because she’d feel fine and safer with the family she already has with her (Satoshi, Shion, Rika and the others).

That’s why I think the only way I could see Satoko becoming a mother would be if that happens because of something out of her control where she ends up with an Accidental Child Acquisition; hence having to adopt her niece because Satoshi and Shion aren’t available. That would makes the whole situation sooo angsty but also so heartwarming, for Satoko to experience motherhood specifically in this situation, and how it’d specifically parallel her own circumstances as a child where she had to go live with her aunt and uncle after her parents’ death; and there could be so much to explore and potential to make her relationship with Sakiko both very compelling and complicated as a result of this? (Admittedly, there also could be a discussion about whether or not Satoshi would like being a father as well; it’s interesting that apparently in Reiwa, Satoshi and Shion are together but they’re the only couple without kids. I do think he’d have lots of hangups about parenthood as well because of his own trauma and how he essentially got a big part of his childhood robbed because of parentification; but that’s another topic.)

With this version, I also really love the idea that Satoshi and Shion actually named Sakiko after their baby sister...

I could totally see that when Shion announced her pregnancy, Satoko would’ve felt very happy for them but at the same time the perspective of them having a baby would suddenly make her abandonment issues kick in; because obviously that’d means she wouldn’t be Satoshi and Shion’s priority anymore and wouldn’t get to have her nii-nii and nee-nee’s undivided attention and love like she used to. And of course she’d hate herself for feeling that way and try to makes herself out to be the best aunt for the future baby...

But then Satoshi and Shion actually notices this, and then tells they’re going to name the baby after her because she’s the most important and bravest person they know and they want their daughter to takes after her the most in that :’)

Anyway it just got me thinking that it’s sad that Reiwa decided to go with every club members except Rika (and Rena kind of, given she’s a divorcee single mom) having very traditional families because I think them having more extended, patchwork families fits the original club members and their dynamic more.

[satoshi-mochida]

Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Rei Gets 'Iro Tōtoshi-hen' Manga on June 20

Anime News Network Source

The July issue of Square Enix's Monthly Shonen Gangan magazine revealed on Monday that the Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Rei manga series will have a new manga titled Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Rei: Iro Tōtoshi-hen that will launch on Square Enix's Gangan Online manga website on June 20. Kei Natsumi, who will draw the new manga, posted a new illustration to celebrate the announcement on their Twitter account, and also noted that the manga is the "answer arc" for the earlier Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Rei manga.

[Twitter Link]

The manga is a sequel to two new manga in the Higurashi franchise titled Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Rei that launched in November 2021. Natsumi's Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Rei: Oni Okoshi-hen launched on Gangan Online, while Seigo Tokiya's Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Rei: Hoshi Watashi-hen launched in Square Enix's Monthly Big Gangan magazine. Oni Okoshi-hen ended in August 2022, while Hoshi Watashi-hen ended in September 2022. The second and final compiled book volumes for both manga shipped in November 2022.

Manga creator Tomato Akase launched a new manga titled Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Meguri (Higurashi: When They Cry – Meguri) in October 2021 on Kadokawa's Young Ace Up service. The manga is a new answer arc for the Higurashi: When They Cry – GOU series. The Higurashi: When They Cry – GOU anime premiered in October 2020, and the 24th and final episode aired in March 2021. Higurashi: When They Cry – SOTSU, the followup to the anime, premiered in July 2021 and aired for 15 episodes.

Asahi launched a new manga in the Higurashi franchise titled Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Oni in Futabasha's Monthly Action magazine in February 2022.

[themattress]

SSR Teppei? Not in Meguri!

I’ve been talking about this recently - it really is interesting how much the depiction of Teppei Houjou in Tatariakashi-hen differs in the Sotsu anime and Meguri manga. It really feels like the former is the ideal outcome for the character, while the latter is the more...realistic one.

In Sotsu, Satoko only asks Teppei to live with her after they’ve been spending time together for quite a while, with it already established that she “forgives” him. Even so, Teppei doesn’t immediately agree to the request until Satoko tells him that she’s being bullied, which he is genuinely distressed about. In Meguri, Satoko asks him immediately after his first time approaching her and apologizing to her, which included him saying that he will gladly leave and never show his face around her again if she so wishes. Her only reasoning is “we can make peace for each other and be a real family”. Given what Teppei had done to her in the past, there is no justified reason he should agree to this, but he does because he’s a fucking idiot who does want to do good now but has no frame of reference for what that looks like.

In Sotsu, Teppei struggles with his desire to do right by Satoko clashing with his ingrained angry, thuggish nature and instinctive resorting to violence to solve his problems. When he starts to realize that his way of doing things will only hurt Satoko further but still desiring to do something and make the situation less dire than “the two of us against the whole village”, as Satoko puts it, he goes to Detective Oishi for help. In Meguri, Teppei seems to recognize immediately that he’s way in over his head with this situation, and his “I’ll handle it!” bravado is clearly performative for Satoko’s sake rather than genuine; the man is a coward and doesn’t actually want to risk doing something that may backfire on him. This is why he is all too receptive when Satoko tells him to go to Oishi...yes, that’s her idea in Meguri, not his.

In Sotsu, Teppei performs dogeza in front of Oishi to secure his help, and does so out in public. The look on his face shows that he still has his pride and hates having to throw it away like this, but he is willing to do so anyway because he truly wants to help Satoko. Even Satoko is shocked that Teppei would go so far on her account. In Meguri, Teppei performs dogeza in front of Oishi in the privacy of his and Satoko’s home, twice, and both times it is thoroughly unnecessary. He isn’t even thinking about his pride, he’s just desperate to do something good and right and “redemptive”, further showing that this buffoon has no idea what the Hell he is doing here. Satoko is shocked at his behavior, but not in a positive way.

In Sotsu, Teppei actually recognizes the root problems of where he went wrong in life, shows remorse for it, and vows to better himself as a person. Satoko then sedates him so that he isn’t present for the phone call with the child protective services. In Meguri, Teppei is present for the phone call, and at the moment of truth where he decides to stop being such a coward and fight for Satoko, he does it in the same way he’s always done things: loud, angry, crass and belligerent. Clearly, he has not learned what his fatal flaws as a human being are and just feels like if he’s behaving this way to help Satoko instead of hurt Satoko then that makes it OK. And then, despite this, he still hesitates when the operator on the other line takes a more threatening tone with him, which allows Satoko the opening to just take the phone from him and handle things himself. Even when he tries to stop being a coward, he fails at it!

In Sotsu, Teppei’s last scene has him acknowledging that a shithead like him doesn’t deserve the happiness he now feels at being an efficient guardian for Satoko. When Satoko then takes out a gun to shoot him with, her psyche fractures, with the human side of her yelling at him to run. But he doesn’t, nor does he attack her to get the gun away, because all of his concern is for her and whatever is plaguing her mentally. By the time the witch side of Satoko takes control, Teppei is still there and crying, not for himself but for his niece, making it all the sadder when she shoots him in the head. In Meguri, Teppei is relieved that the burdensome situation with Satoko being bullied is behind him now and, in a pitiful inner monologue, truly believes that now he can actually begin to redeem himself and change himself for Satoko’s sake. And then Satoko shoots him in the head from behind, with Teppei’s eyes reflecting a brief awareness of what just happened before he dies. Almost as if the universe was telling him “too little, too late”. In Sotsu, Teppei dies as a direct result of actually learning how to redeem himself, which feels terrible and unjust. In Meguri, Teppei dies as a direct result of failing to learn how to redeem himself, which feels inevitable and correct; like nature at work.

The Teppei we see in Sotsu was nicknamed “SSR Teppei” by fans, because it felt like time looping played out like a gaccha game and the loop of Tatariakashi-hen happened to spit out the best possible version of Teppei, one who was “super, special and rare”. Meguri, otoh, produced...just another Teppei, whose remorse for his past sins and good intentions to do right by Satoko were ultimately not enough to make up for what an utterly defective human being he still was. Satoko’s psyche didn’t fracture for him because her human side didn’t fully trust his reformation, and honestly how could she? And while I love SSR Teppei and am glad he’s a thing in the franchise, I appreciate Tomato-san going a more honest direction with the character as he was originally presented, a man who has fucked his life up beyond repair.

[ozmatippetarius]

New/Ongoing Higurashi Material Guide

I'm not sure if this post will be helpful to anybody else, but it would have been helpful to me, a few months back, so I'm being the change I want to see in the world.

Were you into Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni 10-20 years ago (or got into it when the visual novels were released on Steam more recently)? Did you know that in the last couple years Ryukishi07 started putting out a ton of new Higurashi material to celebrate the 20 year anniversary? Did you know this, but were maybe overwhelmed by all the new material and weren't sure what you should be reading and in what order? This post is here to help!

In total, the new/ongoing material includes two mutually-exclusive sequel series and a prequel.*

Gou/Sotsu/Meguri

Gou was initially an anime arc, now also with a manga adaptation, and is a sequel. This can be a bit confusing because it was originally marketed as a reboot, the first episode very much looks like a reboot, and some sites have it listed as simply Higurashi When They Cry, as if it were the original series. It's very much not a reboot, but a sequel.

Sotsu is the anime answer arc for Gou. Meguri is the manga answer arc for Gou, and is ongoing. They're similar, but different. Let's use a food metaphor.

Gou/Sotsu/Meguri have at least some connection to Umineko, although you'll get different answers as to how much of a connection that is. I'll just say, as an Umineko fan, that I'm finding it pretty interesting myself!

Rei(wa)

Rei (令) is the other current sequel series, and is completely unrelated to Gou/Sotsu/Meguri. You'll see English-speaking fans write it as Rei(wa) because it is set at the beginning of the Reiwa era in 2019, and because there is already a different Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni Rei (礼) series.

Rei(wa) is a second-generation series primarily featuring the children of the original characters. I know what you're thinking: who asked for that? Why? I do personally think, though, that they've done a really good job making most of the kids strong stand-alone characters, though, and I've been enjoying it a lot.

Oniokoshi is the first question arc. Hoshiwatashi is the second question arc. Both question arcs started release at the same time and begin with some of the same events, diverging later on. The answer arc, Irotoutoshi, will begin soon in June 2023.

Oni

Oni is a prequel arc, giving us background on Sonozaki Oryou, the Kimiyoshi family, and Doctor Takano Hifumi. Yes, they did make the hemorrhoids mayor a pretty boy.

Anyway, that's my wrap-up! I hope somebody finds it helpful. Happy reading!

*(There's also a mobile game, Mei, but I haven't really been following it myself, and it has a different writer.)

[arcuiedforever]

I’m just treating meguri and sotsu like a switch at a circuit party. I’m just taking from both to make my ideal higurashi story that applies only to me and my love for shion

[certainwill]

okay i am exploring ideas in my head. still trying to sort out what my preferred "canon" for satoko and specifically here, lambda is. and one idea i had is like...

while "bern" was born from the various rika's who failed to change their fate, and the part of herself that rika left behind after gaining her happy ending... what if lambda was born from the various possible futures that occured in fragments after matsuribayashi? like not just sotsu, or meguri, but both and even more unseen interpretations??

in other words, all versions of the gouverse happened in different fragments. let's say like... in meguri, there's more "satoko" than lambda there initially - what eventually becomes a part of lambda is satoko's discarded belief that she deserves to suffer and therefore can't have a happy ending, and/or as a result, her desire to stay by rika's side even if it means giving up on the future. or something. i'm still figuring this part out lol

in gousotsu, due to timey-wimey bullshit, lambda already existed on some level and was influencing her human self in a sense... that's why this fragment went differently from meguri, maybe?? less sure about this part and how things went down due to still sorting out my preferred reading of sotsu, but i suspect satoko's possessiveness of rika is what became a part of lambda here. or something.

okay in hindsight as i type all this out idk if it makes ANY sense at all, lmao... i know what i mean in my head (sort of) but explaining it is hard, otl. and also disclaimer: I STILL HAVE NOT PLAYED UMI SO IDK IF ANY OF THIS MESHES WITH THE CANON EXPLANATIONS OF WITCHES/FRAGMENTS AT ALL, OTL... it very well may not work. but i'm interested on what everyone's thoughts are on the concept?? idk.

[coolstuffiseverywhere]

I agree with 99% of this, but I think Meguri/Sotsu satoko both fuck up. Meguri in that she is kinda ooc, and Sotsu in that it just is… bad at exploring her, despite imo having the more accurate Satoko.

I am about to be so fucking lynched on reddit.com

[timeloopinganalysis]

Higurashi Meguri Satoko final thoughts

Looking over the final chapter again and reading some of the reddit comments on said chapter...

Satoko looked aimless. She is living without a purpose now, more than ever. Or maybe she lives with a feeling of anxiety at the back of her throat. Unlike in Sotsu, where Satoko and Witchtoko had a sort of 'split' which in the end allowed them to take their own paths, Meguritoko didn't feel like she had any revelation or emotional maturity.

She doesn't know if she can loop, so she is stuck in this "Half-Witch Half Human" state. She is both Satoko and Witchtoko and neither at the same time. Satoko's heart has grown tired and weary, so now she's going through life like a paper would in the wind.

That's at least my take. My own headcanon is that Eua sees Sotsutoko as a 'success' and Meguritoko as a 'failure'. One gained independence both in human and witch form, the other is now wandering through life weightlessly.

[ultraericthered]

For the Send Meme: Satoko Houjou

1: Straight up lesbian, of course! 2: SatoRika, OG version. I don’t consider what happened between them post-St. Lucia in Gou/Sotsu or Gou/Meguri to be quite the same since it’s more the birth of the LambdaBern romance (which is itself OTP-worthy too!) 3: Satoko and Shion, her dear Nee-Nee. 4: Satoko/Dr. Irie. Eww, nope nope nope NOPE! 5: During Satoko’s many loops in Meguri, she’d periodically take a “breather loop” where she injected no one, let things play out and let the pieces fall wherever, enjoyed many fun times with her friends, constantly toyed with Rika’s head in darkly comical ways and only “waited ‘til it was funny” to up and kill Rika and herself to start the next loop. Eua, however, found these loops to be dreadfully boring. 6: I like when she went “ohohohohoho!” or said the word “Nii-Nii” (or “Nee-Nee”) or talked about traps and “certainty.” 7: She’s neurodivergent, I’m neurodivergent! We’d get along! 8: A lot of Witchoko’s girlboss behavior is honestly pretty cringe when you get down to it, especially in the anime (“I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE STUDYING!”) 9: Both. OG Satoko is a cinnamon roll, Gou/Meguri Satoko is a problematic fave.

[nippapii]

“All works is based on hard work”

Part 1

After the new chapter of Higurashi Meguri came out, many people began to doubt the story of the Gou-Sotsu anime, most of them said "Meguri is much better than Gou-Sotsu" "Why is Meguri not made into an anime?" etc

I honestly don't mind if some people think that way, at first I thought so too. but I finally changed my mind after making some theories about higurashi.

for me the anime doesn't have a problem, I will discuss some of the differences that maybe you guys will at least understand why the anime and the manga are two equally good things...

Let's talk about the anime first, like I said I have no problem if you don't like the story of Higurashi Gou-Sotsu... but at least I want you to understand what Ryukishi really wants to convey to the audience of Gou Sotsu...

Problem : 

If we look at the anime, the problem is about Rika who wants to go to St. Lucia and Satoko who wants to live in Hinamizawa.

Both have different dreams but they don't want to be apart, they always want to be together...

And Eua knew it would turn out like this, so she thought that in the end Satoko and Rika would kill each other and because Eua also knew Rika can’t kill Satoko...

Solusion :

But hanyuu using chessboard Thinking, she knows that rika will not kill satoko, she believes in miracle where everyone will live and she believes in rika… but Eua who forgot that rika still has a human side which makes this boomerang for her