#both fandoms are disappointing me

[schoolchaos]

Say No To This x Epic: The Musical

Eurylochus:

There's nothing like years out on the seas

Soldiers under stress meets someone looking pretty

There's trouble in the air, you can smell it

Captain faced her by himself, I'll let him tell it

Odysseus:

I hadn't slept in a week

I was weak, I was awake

You've never seen a king and captain more in need of a break

Longing for Penelope

Missing my kid

That's when Circe and her nymphs turned all my men to pigs, I said

Odysseus:

Hey there, lady of the palace

I'm so sorry to bother you at home

But I sent men to patrol, yet only one came back alone

She said

Circe:

All men have done us wrong

Beatin' us, cheatin' us, mistreatin' us

So yours are in their true forms

I'll never have open arms

Odysseus:

So I told her ‘bout my flower that lets me claim her power, she said

Circe:

It's like that, then

Odysseus:

I told her ‘bout how I had picked it with my bare hands

They were like god hands, she said

Circe:

From Hermes, then

Odysseus:

Then I said, "You should release my men"

She turned red, she led me to her bed

Let her legs spread and said

Circe:

Stay

Odysseus:

Huh?

Circe:

Hey

Odysseus:

That's when I began to say

Girl, what do you mean by this

Circe:

What do you mean you don't know what I mean by this

Don't you know I look so helpless

Your body should be saying, "Hell, yes"

Whoa

Odysseus:

No, I don't know what you mean by this

You want me to betray my wife for this?

In my mind, I'm tryin' to go (go, go, go)

Then her mouth is on mine, but I still say

No, no (Penelope)

No, no (Penelope)

No, no (Penelope)

No, no (Penelope)

Odysseus:

After the witch tried to seduce me,

Which confused me, my wife is not named Circe

So yes, after this endeavor, I became a beggar

For everyone's sakes I had to beg her, I said

Odysseus (+Circe):

Circe, I hope my words get through to your heart

For twelve years, my family has been apart

Our trip at sea has started to run out of luck

You see, we pissed off Poseidon and now we're so (fuuuu)

Odysseus:

Yeah, so, we made the wrong god gain a strong grudge

All because we may have given his son an eye nudge

But man, I just keep dreamin’ of seein' my wife

If the tides ain't right, then I'll miss my child's whole life

Circe:

I heard his words and my heart begun to race

Poseidon's such a disgrace, he said

Odysseus:

Circe

Circe:

Still dressed, apologetic, a mess, he looked pathetic, he cried

Odysseus:

We must go, please

Circe:

So Poseidon's wrath won't let up?

Odysseus (Circe):

I didn't realize he was the father (stop crying gods dammit, get up)

It was mercy, not a bother (you are ruined)

Please don't leave me with him, helpless (He is helpless, how could I help him?)

Circe (Odysseus):

I'll give you what you want so you can be free (Penelope, Penelope)

Whatever you want, I've been swayed

You’ll be safe (Gods, show me how to go home to her)

Odysseus:

I just wanna go home to her

Circe (Odysseus):

The situation's not yet helpless (helpless)

And my heart is being selfless

Odysseus (Circe):

Please, show me how to get home to her (whoa)

How can I get home to her?

I started losing hope (hope, hope, hope)

Then Circe released my men like I knew she would (yes)

Penelope

Odysseus (Soldiers):

Penelope, I just said no to this

Although there's no way I can go (home, home, home)

Circe:

Well…

There are other ways back home

[gingermintpepper]

Okay, let's finally talk about EPIC's Apollo

I feel very compelled to say, first of all, that I do not dislike Epic. In fact, I am very fond of Epic and have been following its production and status very eagerly! I attend all the launch streams, I watch all of Herrans' update videos; I am, at the end of the day, a fan and I want it to be known that my words are spoken out of love and passion as much as they are spoken from a place of critique.

So really, what my problem with Epic's Apollo?

In the briefest possible terms; the choice to have Apollo be defined by his musical aspect in God Games is thematically strange. And not in the 'oh well in the Odyssey, Apollo was important to Odysseus and his family so it's weird that that wasn't kept in Epic' strange, strange in the sense that Odysseus' character arc since My Goodbye has been getting more and more obviously Apollonian and so it is positively bizarre that when we get to meet Apollo, the god seems entirely disinterested in him and his affairs. So much so that he is not even defined by any station that would indicate that he has been watching over and protecting Odysseus and his family.

What do I mean by 'Odysseus has been following an Apollonian arc'? I'm so glad you asked!

Remember Them is the last song in which Odysseus explicitly uses his sword until Mutiny where he must use it to defend himself against Eurylochus' blade. He uses it to help enact the plan to conquer Polyphemus and, due to Polites dying in that battle, Polites who wished for Odysseus to put the blade down entirely and embrace a post-war life, Odysseus also retires his sword. This is an action that symbolically separates him from Athena - and the image of Odysseus as a traditional warrior set for him in Horse and Infant - as much as My Goodbye physically separates him from the goddess and her war-ways - from this point onwards, Odysseus will no longer be leaning on Athena's wisdom or methods to solve his problems. Likewise, he will no longer be able to rely on her protection.

Odysseus thusly solves most of his upcoming problems through diplomacy and avoidance. He approaches Aeolus - a strange and ambiguous god (both in gender and in motivation) and appeals to them for help. Circe too, he approaches not with wishes to conquer or for revenge, but for the safe returning of his men and an alternate way forward. In all of these scenarios, there is some Apollonian element which is subtly interweaved alongside the influence of other gods; it is with a bow and arrows that Polyphemus' sheep is slain (and thus it is this Apollonian element which is at the root of Odysseus' spat with Poseidon), it is a vision of Penelope that warns Odysseus that his men are about to open Aeolus' wind-bag, Circe's peace offering to Odysseus is to refer him to a prophet of Apollo who has since died.

In this way, Apollo is walking alongside Odysseus for all of his journey after Athena departs - even in the Underworld, he is guiding him. It is Tiresias' proclamation that is the last straw for Odysseus, it is by the power of a mouthpiece of Apollo that Odysseus decides to embrace his ruthlessness. It is with the bow and arrow that Odysseus subdues the siren who sought to trick him, likewise, Odysseus does not attempt to undermine or escape the fate of paying Scylla's passage price - he knows of the doom about to befall the six men and quite unlike the rest of the journey until this point, he does not fight against it. This all comes to a head on Thrinacia where it is a blade which sacrifices the sun god's cow and brings destruction upon the crew once more.

My point with all of this is that when I heard the teasers for God Games years ago, it made perfect sense to me that Apollo would be Round One - he is not Odysseus' adversary and has no reason to oppose Athena's wish to free him. From other teasers about what will happen in the climax of Epic, Apollo will still be walking alongside Odysseus - it is Apollo's bow that Penelope will give the suitors to string. Likewise, it is Apollo's bow that will prove Odysseus' legitimacy and identity. That bow will be the power by which Odysseus hunts his adversaries and cleans out his palace - it is Apollo who is the avatar of Odysseus' ruthlessness, not Athena.

So tell me, truly, what was the point of having Apollo raise a non-argument in God Games? Why have him appear unconcerned, aloof and slightly oblivious? Why have him appear in his capacity as the Lord of Music at all?? And if the intention was never to make Apollo an active player in Odysseus' life like he was in the Odyssey, why keep Odysseus as a primary archer?

The answer of course is that Apollo is inextricable from the fabric of the Odyssey - his influence and favour exudes from Odysseus just as much as Athena's. In Athena's ten year sulk, it would have been Apollo who kept Telemachus and Penelope safe. It would have been Apollo protecting Odysseus from Poseidon's gaze as he travelled the seas (according to the Odyssey anyway)

Forgive me for not being excited about something that I thought was being purposefully set up. I was extremely ecstatic about all of the little Apollonian details that litter the sagas because I know where this story ends up (loosely) but all God Games did was reveal that maybe those Apollonian details were not intentional at all, but merely the ghost of the Apollo who persistently haunts those he favours, even if he cannot explicitly come to their aide in an adaptation.

[ninjautizm]

Something tells me that the first Spinjitzu master might not be a good dad 😭

And I actually like that concept, it makes me think in a way where garmadon had daddy issues and now that's transfered to his son, Lloyd 🤔

[dazeddoodles]

I love Huntlow but the fact that the only "straight" (I know they're bi/pan but people assumed they were straight) ship in this gay show with the least amount of screentime and development (this isn't an insult, they were literally introduced last after the show had already been canceled) instantly became the most popular ship is kinda sad to me.

I know it's partly just because it's the ship that involves Hunter and he's the most popular character. But the most popular character in a cast full of girls and women being the only (white) male character doesn't exactly make me feel better.

[st4rstudent]

Shadow the hedgehog but as a bunny for a friend. Shadow the bunny

[marimbles]

i miss carpisuns sometimes </3

[pearlcaddy]

LOCKWOOD & CO. 1.08

[jamescarstairs]

you know me i'm like the first person to be an advocator of platonic relationships and i adore platonic caryl but what pisses me off about twd/twd: dd is that you know the only reason why daryl is constantly paired romantically with younger women who have no chemistry with him and not have daryl romantically involved with carol is because they view her to be "too old looking" to be a romantic involved with him....

[owlyflufff]

haikyu's dumpster batte is only going to be around 1 hour and 24 minutes, oh it's genuinely bokuakaover

[butchvamp]

reading about the veilguard sales stats and tbh i don't know enough to compare numbers but i'm not surprised it fell short of expectations, it was in development hell for 10 years... i've kinda reached the point where i'm mostly just sad about it lol and i'm also kinda tired of discussing it because no matter what kind of criticism you have or how nicely you word it and no matter how many caveats you add about EA someone will be on your ass with excuses and trying to argue with some obscure piece of lore posted on a forum back in 2014 or some dev's tweet or a writer's AMA on reddit that i'm just supposed to know about somehow... like personally i'm looking at the game right in front of me that i paid for and i don't think i should have to do intensive behind the scenes research to be allowed to criticize it. at the end of the day i think veilguard as a whole, while fun and successful in some ways, still has really horrible dogshit writing that failed to resonate with fans and i don't think EA held a gun to their heads and forced them to make all of those writing decisions. the writers themselves have admitted to these choices! idk why we can't just say that 😭 of course i'm not trying to solely blame the writers (they are going to take the fall regardless, unfortunately) and the game had a hellish development cycle with many of the writers voicing displeasure with the way things turned out but it's actually both EA and bioware that are to blame for that. i'm sure it made the writing difficult and i sympathize but it also can't be an absolute excuse. can we just be honest. EA sucks but bioware is not an indie dev and they are guilty of many of the same practices. multiple things can be true at once and we can acknowledge both and criticize both.

[feeling--pink]

I have done it!! I have drawn the toitles!!! :D :D :D

[krems-chair]

Oh cool you're a gamer? Normally I'd claim such a chill and nebulous label for myself, but thanks to a helpful anon I now know instead that the proper term is "piece of shit"

[1doesnotsimplyhavejust1fandam]

It’s the way that Nathan Ford is BY FAR the least interesting character of the original Leverage five, and yet he’s the one who gets SO much backstory and context to himself. I’m literally watching the season 4 finale and I just don’t care that his father was murdered because Nate’s being incredibly annoying. Trying to be empathetic about a character grieving doesn’t even work for me here because his entire team is trying to make sure he doesn’t MURDER the man/men responsible for his father’s death and he’s not letting them in at all. It’s part of the reason I dislike his character so much. There’s hardly ever moments when he is genuinely vulnerable, not even with Sophie, who he is supposed to be in love with (yeah yeah, I know, they’re “friends with benefits” right now, but that’s not fooling anyone with eyes even without the knowledge that they end up together at the end). Nate is this mastermind of a character and it’s cool and intriguing for all of half of season before you’re scratching your head like, where’s the care for his team? He was kind to Hardison in the evaluation form and he didn’t want to make Eliot kill again, for any reason, but it’s so hard to appreciate his humanity when he’s spent the past three(ish) seasons on the verge of drinking himself to death, verbally bashing Sophie, and only being about the work. Sophie having a notebook full of moments when Nate put her or her ideas down isn’t funny or a moment of character growth. Nate doesn’t fully understands how that’s so shitty of him, as team leader, but also as her sexual (romantic?) partner. Every moment of Sophie and Nate’s relationship has to be fought for BY SOPHIE, and at this point, I don’t even know why she even wants him. He may be acting as Robin Hood and helping people, but he’s barely even a person while he’s doing it. I’ve never liked Nate, but making my way through season 4 has definitely given me the hardest time with remembering his redeeming qualities. Every time he’s vaguely misogynistic or acts like an immature man child when it comes to processing his emotions without alcohol (which happens: never), I question why he’s the main character, why my screen isn’t filled up with Hardison being the sassiest mf of them all or OT3 moments or Sophie conning the hell out of men who are led by their dicks and not their minds. When I’m watching the Nate centric scenes/episodes, I’m never wishing for more, I’m wishing the rest of the team was in the spotlight instead

[yeoroot]

Wouldn’t it be rlly funny if we met Ace’s ex girlfriend first before meeting his brother

[sillyscientists]

Just gonna say that mocking people for voicing their disappointment over the stream (spongebobscreamingwithflyingicecreamtruck.png “IN A CIVIL AND POLITE MANNER”) just makes you like. An asshole lmao. People are gonna be disappointed when they’re told they’re getting one thing and getting another no matter what, even if what they get instead is really good/funny.

[edwinisms]

literally I have not written this much in the span of a couple weeks since like. mid high school. so around 7-8 years ago. what has this show done to me