#bobby + mary parallels

[shallowseeker]

Bobby Singer needs to be in #SPNwin.

Like, seriously, he’s one of The Most Interesting Characters. He’ll always be a main to me, because he’s not straightforward.

He’s got that warring, contrasting nature. That seesaw-soldier thing. He’s complicated and loving and and yet…he screws up royally. He does what he thinks is right, is necessary.

He can be hot and cold and sweet and vengeful and respectful and encouraging, and then he goes and throws down these misogynistic little digs. Every feminine thing gets spit on; turns into a barb. And yet it’s not a barb. The teasing is somehow warm n’ homey n’ familiar. You decode its true meaning.

And…he’ll break the mold with soap operas and pedicures. He’ll cook for you in his little kitchen. He can spit with words, but accepts with his actions.

He goes from love, “do you value yourself so little?�� to, scoffing, letting you down at your most vulnerable moment: “you’re not a person.” (Because sometimes, he thinks tough love will carry you through and help you survive.) He a rocky foundation but he’s a foundation.

That’s Bobby!

[were-wolverine]

something something dick grayson and dean winchester both have parents named mary & john and had to raise a younger brother and have a surrogate father whose name starts with ‘B’ and have the weight of the world on their shoulders and were raised as child soldiers and-

[ananke-xiii]

I've written somewhere that Team Free Will is actually Team Dean's Will but it wasn't, like, a criticism or something like that, it was what I personally got once the show was over (and I still have very legit concerns about Dean's choice during the last episode).

I don't think Chuck won in the end because he, as a character, wouldn't have wanted for Dean to die. As far as polysemy goes, Chuck does represent many things but, to be really honest, I don't really think he represents John Winchester on a cosmic level. Like, yeah, OF COURSE, we can definitely put them together in the "Shitty Fathers" box but when Chuck tells Dean that he's not like his father I think he's not that wrong after all. Chuck is much worse and not because he's a John Winchester on a gigantic scale, it's not about quantity. He's worse because he just is.

Leaving aside the many problematic aspects of their relationship, Mary and John can be totally seen as Amara and Chuck (the show does go there and I think it's interesting for many reasons) but it's also true that the one who lied in the couple was Mary, not John. Even if we know why she had to lie and it can be understandable, it's also true that both Sam and Mary are willing to omit a Very Important Thing about themselves that, eventually, gets their partners killed. But, unlike Chuck who's to blame for his omissions, lies and manipulations, both Sam and Mary are two characters that, even more than Amara, are ALWAYS stripped of any choice. So it's almost like no matter what they do, they can only fight for their free will but never fully live it (SPN final thesis: you can never get what you want).

So yeah, if we consider John as a person and, more specifically, as a partner (therefore not in his paternal role), Chuck's not like him at all. Chuck's in control of his narrative, John couldn't even choose his own car at the dealership (btw, in my fantasy John has a love/hate relationship with the whole album "Boys for Pele" by Tori Amos that he keeps hidden like Bobby's passion for Tori Spelling). John is very much mainly narrated by other characters, in this respect he's just like Mary, to be honest. We don't 100% know who he is because he's a character described by absence. So much so that Sam and Dean didn't even know he had a fucking SECRET family!!!

Chuck is portrayed to be less enigmatic. We know he lies because we are shown that multiple times even before "Moriah". He's a character without much depth and that bothers him So. Much. He's a God who wants to be like Keith Richards. LOL!

However, even if Chuck, to me, objectively doesn't win (I also have my own "Billie won theory"), he neverthless does represent the Dictorial Power of Shitty Fathers that some might call The Patriarchy (not me. I would NEVER!). In this way, yes, he sort of wins because, as I've said, the natural order wins in the end and, in SPN, the natural order is Absent, Shitty Fathers. The sugarcoated version of the bygone days, the bittersweet nostalgia for a golden past that inevitably leads to death.

And who, the show tells us, represents all of the above? The absence of John Winchester via the presence of his journal. A man who's become so powerful he's been morphed into a myth. Maybe he is the real tulpa of this story, after all.

What does this have to do with Team Dean's Will? I find that saying that what Dean did in the end is a "choice" is very troublesome. To me personally. But the show does imply that, not strongly enough because it leaves some room for doubt but it ultimately does that. So okay, I'll bite and will consider it to be a Real Choice out of Dean's Free Will. Fine. What about Sam, though?

S15 starts with Sam and Rowena and ends with Sam and Dean. Rowena and Dean both commit suicide that's not 100% framed as suicide. Among other things, it is framed as a sacrifice. And Sam's there with them and he doesn't want that. He says so. He tells Rowena to "screw the books" and he tells Dean that he doesn't want what Dean is asking for.

Rowena's act is framed as being done out of her own agency because she believes in prophecy and magic. To which I say bullshit, not to Rowena but to the show because this is a cop-out. Since S13 Rowena couldn't do what she wanted to do because it wasn't possible. Fine. But how come that prophecy seems to be working only for her? How come the "rules are rules" mindset only applies to her? Why do other characters' books change and hers alone doesn't? How come her sacrifice is both destined and out of her own free will? It means that it can happen then! That destiny and free will can coincide! This change in thinking about the question is so packed with possibilities that they could've done another 15 seasons about it. Unfortunately, destiny and free will seem to meet in Definite Death which meh. Story over.

And Sam? He's still there. Participating and not participating. Against his will.

With Dean things are a bit different because we do know that Chuck is obsessed with him. Once Chuck is out of the picture, we could imply, Dean's finally "free" to choose what he wants. Which is such a naive thought because if it were only the absence and/or presence of things/persons to determine our lives we, perhaps, wouldn't need therapy.

But, as I've said, I'll be good and keep my promise: let's say Dean chooses out of his own free will. It should be cool for us, right? This is what Dean wants. The Big Big Bad is not dead but he's not the man behind the curtains anymore so hurrah! Free/Dean's Will wins. We should feel like we must respect that. And yet, it doesn't feel right.

And Sam? He's still there. Participating and not participating. Against his will.

It doesn't feel very "Free Willy" if the people just let the orca free. It's not very Free Will for Sam if the show tells us that it's Dean literally getting out of the picture that will "free" Sam. Brrrrrrr.

So what does this tell me? That the "destiny vs free will" discourse seems to be working only when there's a villain on the horizon, a commanding power that wants to tell you what to do, someone actually stronger than you whose actions can alter your life's story.

If you take that power out, what's left? Only people with their choices. And your absent, dead father's journal radiating The Real Power (the idea of power inside your mind that controls you). Is free will still in the room with us? Cause it starts to look like somebody's supposedly "free" will might be somebody's else constraint. As far as Sam is concerned, it seems to say: it doesn't matter whether there's a God, Death or that prophecy is real or not. What matters is that you can only stand there, participating and not participating. You don't want that? Too bad, 'cause that's what you got.

Maybe the finale really took the worst from my "Billie won theory" and the worst from the "Chuck won theory", i.e. an idea of natural order that upholds patriarchy. Or, since I can and will go there, that the natural order is the patriarchy.

So what about Free Will, is it an illusion? If it applies to only a few it certainly doesn't seem like something worth fighting for. And the natural order is indeed restored in the end. I don't think the show gives a real answer to that, by the end of S15 there are so many things that simultaneously mean 100 other things that everybody can take what they want from the show.

If you ask me, I think it was a moot question, to be honest. It made sense in S4-5 but once SPN goes full meta in S15 it becomes very superficial. Of course I know they're fictional characters and literally don't have free will, the premises were interesting because I wanted to see how these characters would react to stuff happening in the story. Once the story is revelead to be a bluff, though, what am I left with? Characters spiralling into crisis after crisis. This could be interesting in a novel but in a 15-seasons-long series you have to give me something ELSE as well, the "all die more or less happily" last-minute finale (knowing Heaven is a scam, by the way) is just... not having to deal with the consequences of the narrative choices that were made.

Or, perhaps, Supernatural is a show where one of its themes is "destiny vs free will" that ultimately tells you that there's no destiny but there's also no free will, there's only John's journal aka the Power of the Dominant Narrative. Which is the power of the people who write that narrative for us to believe in it. Perhaps, not even the people making the show were free to do what they would've liked to do. They were also there, like Sam, participating and not participating. Finding ways to cope.

[scoobydoodean]

WAIT WAIT WAIT pleaseeee expand on sam separating his soul himself??? i’ve literally never heard this before (i really wanna agree cause i just can’t work out how cas just did not realize he’d forgotten sam’s soul)

This is just a pet theory I have. I first suggested it here when talking to Shal about Bobby not clocking Sam as soulless. The TL;DR is that Sam has a tendency to create emotional distance to protect himself from grief and other painful emotions. Shal's careful examinations of scripts reveal that it's even in the script direction when Mary dies that "Sam disassociates". In 8.08, Sam is paralleled with Fred, who disassociated to deal with grief (I talk about Sam distancing himself from his emotions in season 8 more largely here). I've been slowly collecting (when I remember) little bits and pieces around this idea that Sam tries to distance himself from his emotions in the tag #i just stopped—named that because of 11.11 when—after being confronted by Lucifer—Sam apologizes for leaving Dean in Purgatory, saying—seeming perplexed by his own actions:

I should've looked for you. When you were in Purgatory, I... I should've turned over every stone. But I didn't. I stopped. And I've never forgiven myself for it.

So this pet theory I have is that in The Cage, to cope with the torture being inflicted on him, Sam simply separated his soul from his body. It was the most extreme possible case of dissociating from his own suffering possible.

6.22 strengthens my belief in this theory because Sam splitting into three pieces is treated as a defense mechanism. It's kind of like an Id/Ego/Superego situation, except that the pieces are soulless Sam, Sam the hunter and family man, and the Sam who remembers hell.

SOULLESS!SAM: Well, your BFF Cas brought the Hell-wall tumbling down and you, pathetic infant that you are, shattered into pieces. (he points at Sam) Piece. (he points at himself) Piece.

SAM: I - I have no idea what you're talking about. SOULLESS!SAM: Why would you? You're jello, pal. Unlike me. SAM: What are you? SOULLESS!SAM: I'm not handicapped. I'm not saddled with a soul. In fact, I used to skipper this meatboat for a while. It was smooth sailing. I was sharp, strong. That is, 'til they crammed your soul back in. Now look at you. Same misty-eyed milksop you always were. That's because souls are weak. They're a liability. Now, nothing personal, but run the numbers. Someone's got to take charge around here, before it's too late. 

Sam and soulless Sam have a power struggle inside Sam's head over who gets control. Soulless Sam is really an enforcer, trying to protect Sam from his worst memories. As we see after Sam kills him:

You think I'm bad? Wait 'til you meet the other one.

Then when Sam finds the other part of himself:

SAM: I have to know what you know. What happened in the cage? TORTURED!SAM: Trust me, you don't wanna know it. SAM: You're right. But I still have to. TORTURED!SAM: Sam, you can't imagine. Stay here, go back, find that bartender, go find Jess, but don't do this. I know you. You're not strong enough. SAM: (exhales) We'll just have to see.

Of course, one could argue that Sam's subconscious creates this scenario with soulless Sam and the Sam who remembers hell because Death told them Sam would crumble and Soulless Sam was scared of the fallout of having his soul reinstalled. But idk. I feel like it goes deeper than that, and tortured Sam and soulless Sam's attempts to protect Sam from the truth feed into that to me.

[hexedwinchester]

Early seasons of SPN are superior

so I'm re-watching Supernatural (I'm always re-watching SPN, don't mind me) and I realised why the early seasons are so freakin good whereas the laters ones are a complete mess...

Horror was the core theme of Supernatural (yes, I'm not discarding the brothers' drama, I'll get to it in a minute). These beautiful scare tactics that they employed were amazing: the crib mobile toy rotating, shadows moving out of the corner of the eyes, toys going off, subtle bloody Mary reflections in the mirror, creepy skulls dug from the ground, the ghosts flickering. Hell yea they nailed 'Scary just got sexy' with these.

Don't get me started on the background music. Whimsical music crescendo, building up the anticipation. The rock music blaring through the Impala. What happened to the cool ass music in the later seasons? They just played this weird, sad tune like someone's blowing raspberries to show grief and that's it!

Monster of the week theme and the lores/legends in early seasons were much, much better than S12's Foundry or the later season episode with bizarre tentacle porn thingy (you know which one I'm talking about). It just didn't feel the same. The stories were poorly written and even more poorly executed.

Early seasons used to be purely about Sam and Dean (as it should have been throughout) Them against the world, heaven and hell. No dumbass angel lurking in the background like a pathetic third wheel. No king of hell bitching about his sad childhood for two whole seasons. No Soccer mom half assing their way into hunting.

Foreshadowing was done so beautifully! Everytime I re-watch the early seasons I find a few bits that connects to something that happened initially in say S1-2. The parallels are done beautifully and writing is good, and I mean 'I wanna use this quote as a wallpaper' good.

The struggle for the boys was real. They had to do their own research, save their own asses, stitch their wounds, pop their dislocated shoulders back in the place. Later seasons? Bunker has answer to everything, angel healing wounds with a flash of light, Lucifer bringing Sam back from the dead without asking for anything (and no, taking him to Jack is not a good enough bargain), Jack healing wounds or whatever. Where is the damn struggle?! Where is the hero's journey?!

I miss the beautiful, colourful motel rooms that had its own personality. I HATE the bunker (yes I know a lot of people love it because Dean has a good shower, they have a home etc, etc) but no! Bunker is lame and boring and monotonous. There isn't a single thing I like about it. Gimme back my motel rooms with the sunburst mirror!

Story arc or lack thereof from S12 onwards. The main plot just got duller and duller from S12 onward and it felt like the writers got lazy and stopped putting efforts. There was no build up and the plot felt forced. The main arcs didn't feel exciting enough. BMoL and Kelly's pregnancy: the who and why? Jack: predictable. Other Micheal and Micheal Dean: meh, next! God as the big bad: interesting but I don't think they have it in them to execute this correctly.

Irrelevant/Unnecessary characters and their mini plots. S1-5 focuses purely on the brothers and that's what I'm here. I don't care how and why an idiot angel opened purgatory. It sounded more like a dull spin off plot than main story arc. I don't care about prophets and their lives (yeah Kevin is in Advance Placement, what am I to do with that?). I don't care about the different angel garrisons at war (again a plot for a lame spin off). I don't care about Crowley, his son or his relationship with Rowena. Tell me how this affects the boys. If it doesn't, please let's move on. Whatever was going on with Cole Trenton was pointless. I don't care about Mary and her hunting escapades with BMoL. I don't care about Kelly's pregnancy. The multi-universe and all characters they vomited back in the show with this. Not needed! Let Charlie, Gabriel and Bobby's memory rest in peace. Nick's killer storyline and wayward sisters. Enough said. Empty and the deal with Cas and Meg 2.0? Boring! Billy playing the bad cop, the whole death's library? Poorly executed and it turned into a bowl of cold spaghetti. In the end, the focus moved from the boys to useless characters and mini plots. Fuck that! Supernatural is about Sam and Dean and that's about it.

The direction. Later seasons lack the beauty of scenic shots of the landscape, close on up the boys' faces, the lights hitting their faces to show their beauty. Camera angles and slow panning shots. I miss the beauty that were the early seasons.

[rennerator]

SO MANY PARALLELS, SERIOUSLY... These Two... THEY BELONG!!!! THEY LOVE EACH OTHER!!!!!!!! They DESERVE HAPPINESS!!!!! They DESERVE TO BE HAPPY TOGETHER!!!!! Thank YOU SO SO MUCH for this!!!! You are INCREDIBLE!!!! :D LOVE LOVE LOVE <3

Based on this post

[kipperlillyclerickiller]

Exploring Unconventional Bad Kid/Ratgrinder Parallels

Obviously, when Brennan introduced the Ratgrinders in FHJY, some clear parallels in class composition popped up. Every member of the Bad Kids has a corresponding Ratgrinder who shares their general build/role in the party and (presumably) some of their psychological issues as well. But when I was rotating the characters in my mind, as one does, I realized that there were some other interesting character foils to be pointed out. I've listed them below under the read more, along with more detailed thoughts on what aspects of the characters are highlighted with each comparison.

Also I spent way too much time working on this, so I'm including a DNI banner on here (made by @kipperlillyforpresident, who also graciously let me bounce ideas off in the DMs)

Kipperlilly Copperkettle/Gorgug Thistlespring: the first parallel that i came up with. they both have issues around rage that are belied by their physical appearance, with klck being a tiny halfling who experiences an excessive amount of rage that doesn't "benefit" her adventuring-wise as she's a rogue, while on the hand, gorgug is a half-orc who started out as a barbarian in part because it is what he's physically predisposed to be, despite actually having an extremely gentle personality, only transitioning to artificer in his junior year. both have relatively normal middle-class backgrounds but still have issues; klck's anger issues regarding not having a tragic backstory are well-documented, but gorgug also has baggage that made him minimize his presence at the beginning of his high school career, stemming from growing up in a household where rage wasn't really considered at all bc it's an emotion so antithetical to the thistlesprings' way of existence (to be clear, i think the thistlesprings are great parents; it's just that they didn't really know how to address this aspect of gorgug's development)

Ruben Hopclap/Fabian Seacaster: black boys showing off the sensitive side of masculinity. last episode established that the ratgrinders are living in ruben's mansion, which he presumably bought with his rockstar money and lives in without any parental figures, meaning that he and fabian have similar living situations and probably similar issues with trying to avoid loneliness that result in attention-seeking behavior (ruben's music career and fabian's max legend status). finally, the turncoat potential: fabian has admitted to listening to ruben's music and beefed with gertie bladeshield against the rest of the bad kids. meanwhile, ruben's experiencing some sort of guilt/reluctance with the ratgrinders' plan as expressed through his interactions w/ wanda childa. i believe they can bridge the bad kid/ratgrinder divide and i want them to be friends sooo bad

Ivy Embra/Fig Faeth: most straightforward similarity is their sylvan elf heritage, but i think that the similarity that matters the most would be their image/self-portrayal, with ivy being a sort of mean girl with an edge, similar to the type of person that fig wanted to portray herself as in freshman year (even though fig is actually much more soft-hearted/sentimental). this comparison is honestly more of a what-could-be scenario that sheds light on potential alternate facets of fig's story bc 1) ivy being an elven ranger is pretty similar to sandra lynn but has the edgy persona fig only took on after she found out about her tiefling heritage and 2) we have literally no idea what's going on with ivy's emotional landscape. still, this comparison compels me, especially in light of finding out how porter and jace groomed the ratgrinders, and the way that sandra lynn got used by bobby dawn when he was an adventurer. it's like a dark mirror of what could have happened to fig if the circumstances were worse (and the fact that bobby dawn is a teacher in aguefort rn and was also collaborating with porter to an extent.... the cycles are cycling!!)

Mary-Ann Skuttle/Riz Gukgak: just little guys. specifically smaller races often stereotyped as villainous and acting in the service of the party rather than for themselves, though while we see that riz acts for the party out of genuine passion, mary-ann seems to be more apathetic. both are disconnected from regular teenage social norms, generally unbothered/unaware of looking "uncool", and more focused on their personal interests, as mary-ann has her plushies and riz has his mysteries (and his business cards from freshman year lol). even when riz joined all the school clubs this year, he did it for the sake of kristen's campaign/getting scholarship money to help his mom more than for his own reputation. another prominent similarity is a heavy compartmentalization of emotion: we don't really know what's going on with mary-ann but she hasn't shown any emotion even when trying out for bloodrush and seems remarkably unbothered for someone who's been presumably been shatter-starred. riz, in contrast, has a lot of emotions/anxieties but channels them into mystery solving and other activities, an approach encapsulated by the baron quote from fhsy: "You love the truth. You seek it so much that you cut your hands upon the inside of crystals. But, you use deception to protect yourself from something you fear." riz also isn't very forthcoming with his emotional state, evading questions from his mom and Jawbone, as well as his friends. His initial drive to solve mysteries stemmed from the emotion from his father's death, but iirc he didn't even tell the bad kids about how pok died until sophomore. And now, he's grinding in school/extracurriculars for scholarships to avoid considering the possibility of the bad kids splitting up

Buddy Dawn/Adaine Abernant: catty and blonde. (jk) both of them feel anger prominently and express it in their spellcasting (versus a more martial class), but in very different ways. adaine's whole arc throughout freshman and sophomore year has been about accepting that she has the right to be angry about the way that her parents abused her, and that her anger can be a source of power in her spellcasting; contrast the way she brained doreen with the ladle in the first battle with the corn cutie bc she didn't know what to do versus later battles in sophomore and junior year when she's learned adaine's furious fist. on the other hand, buddy uses his cleric spellcasting as a healer in order to sublimate discomforting feelings and avoid dealing with the idea of agency and consequences of emotions like anger. his whole conversation with kristen is basically him going "i don't feel anger because i repress it so deeply and i don't engage in violence, just help other people kill because that is helio's will. my hands are clean tho :)" (he is so funny) additionally, adaine has found a support system in her adventuring party, as well as jawbone and ayda, while buddy is the odd one out in the ratgrinders as lucy's replacement, isolated from preexisting support systems as he has just moved from highcourt and subsequently becoming so very vulnerable to getting shatterstarred

Oisin Hakinvar/Kristen Applebees: idk these are the only guys i have left. ok my original idea was they both have plot-relevance related to adaine's summons, with oisin hijacking adaine's dust mephits to tamper with the cloud rider engine and whatever the fuck is gonna go on with K2 in the next episodes. also have a narrative presence defined in part by the women they're crushing on, with kristen dealing with her attraction to tracker/gertie/women in general throughout all the campaigns and oisin being introduced as seemingly flustered by adaine's attention. but honestly i think the strongest parallel is that they're both haters (kristen calling klck "4dogs" and oisin calling buddy dawn "hayseed", fight!)

and of course, how could I forget...

Lucy Frostblade/Gilear Faeth: the Chosen Ones. both have plot relevance and relation to Ankarna through their ancestry. both just have a melancholy vibe. ppl from mountainous cultures often live off dairy products... i'm gonna extrapolate and assume that lucy loved blueberry yogurt

[hiwelcometothemonstersancturary]

What are your shipnames (if you have them) for your ppt au?

Oh!!!

For Angel x the Prototype, their ship name is Prometheus, and their stuff are tagged as #ppt prometheus. Prometheus stole the fire for humanity and was punished by it, and depending on the version of the myth he was freed later, which is a nice parallel for their dynamic! The name was suggested by an asker :0)

Catnap x Dogday is tagged as Daynap, Hoppy x Bobby as Cuddlejump, Kickin x Bubba as Starstudent, and Marie/Mommy Long Legs x Miss Delight is tagged as Mommy's Delight!

[stagefoureddiediaz]

What I can’t figure out with this jealousy piece is how this fits into the relationship breakup (because that is the only place that is going). We’ve now seen plenty of examples of him being on the outside with the group chat and standing off to the side at the grave (a visual difference between Buck and Eddie at Marie’s grave). But the thing I’m stuck on is T seems to want to be part of this family Buck has created. So how does it go from him wanting to be included to the breakup (this is not a spiral that it won’t happen but the frustration at missing that final clue to this puzzle)

Hey Nonnie

So my thinking on the jealousy aspect is that it leads to Tommy revealing a part of his past which actually shows him for who he really is and that is what leads to the breakup (after buck us a spiral and talks to bobby Maddie and Josh) what exactly that looks like idk exactly, but I could maybe see buck and tommy in a club for a date night - buck gets flirted with or something and tommy gets jealous and possessive and things get revealed from there. Or something happens on a call/ a call is really interesting and buck is telling him about it and he ends up revealing whatever it is that is going to be revealed - because Tommy was in a similar situation maybe or he gets annoyed at buck for doing something to help save one of the 118 - or one of them saving buck and tommy saying something ridiculous like they never had his back when he was there etc etc (which we know isn’t true!)and that green eyed monster leads to him revealing something about his past that leads to the break up.

I don’t know how it will play out exactly, I just know that there is a reason we keep being shown tommy as being on the outside of things - not included - and also jealous of those things - so while I don’t think those aspects alone are enough to lead to a break up, I can very much see the cumulative effect being that the reveal the thing we’re waiting to be revealed!

The distance between them is widening - that graveyard scene made that pretty clear - even down to tommy having to jog to catch up with Buck - so I think we’ll keep getting those visual reminders of that space between them right up to the point of impact on the reveal!

I have also joked that tommy is trying. To become buck - so he can replace him at the 118 and get the family he had but never appreciated when he was there. There is also Bucks own jealousy in play a bit here as well - Buck wanting Eddie’s attention back on him - because that’s the other thing 805 showed us - Tommy and Eddie through bucks eyes again - and how buck is behaving towards the two of them, how he himself is a bit jealous - it’s a really interesting parallel to 704 - worth watching side by side if you can!

We just have to remember that the show is laying these things like the jealousy and outside-ness down in the text to provide a catalyst - not because they are the actual thing that will lead to the break up!

[winchester-reload]

I have a few thoughts about the Winchesters finale, and though I wasn’t gonna weigh in on this, it turns out I needed to write this down to get it out of my head, so here we go.

I understand that Misha was approached to be included on the show and that there was a “scheduling conflict” that included multiple conversations with Jensen. Here’s my interpretation of that: 

I believe Cas was supposed to make a cameo in episode 13 to tee up the confession resolution—this was always the episode where they were going to crack open the “surprise twist” even before learning they would only get 13 episodes total. In the original scenario, episode 13 would have been the hellatus episode rather than a finale, leaving room for everything to come to a head with episode 22 instead. It’s then they would have given us the actual Dean and Cas reunion. This would have wrapped both stories nicely with each group going off into their own respective sunsets—their own happy endings, while still leaving all the room for the new crew to explore more seasons; all along, we see, The Winchesters was about Dean and Cas as much as it was about Mary and John.

When they didn’t get the back half of the season picked up, I assume they feared it would be more dangerous to show a Cas cameo without getting to address the confession, so Misha likely opted to be left out instead. With the only hint to Cas being Dean’s line that he was looking for his family when he found the Akrida, then directly drawing the parallel that Jack and Bobby were “family.” The core crew for Dean has always been Bobby, Sam, Jack, AND Cas. And he wasn’t looking for Sam because he was still on earth. So who’s left? You might be compelled to believe he was window shopping AU versions of his parents, but he confirms he ran into the Akrida in this world and then sought to interfere with the order by approaching John in an effort to prevent it from spreading to Sam's world. (Why Cas would be AU hopping, idk. The boy is really afraid of being shot down, I guess.)

It goes far to explain the vast narrative parallels we saw reflected in the Monster Club crew if it was intended as a setup for the confession payoff. It honestly doesn’t make a lot of sense otherwise. There’s no reason these people should be living Dean's experiences and regrets every episode unless the writers wanted the viewer to be thinking about the lessons and resolutions in how they relate to Dean too.

Additionally, as this has been a largely uncontested take, this is Jensen's well-funded fanfic come to life. Complete with the embracing of many of our favorite fanfic tropes and emphasized by Dean’s own words throughout the season. Because this is an obvious embrace of that “write your own story” fan side, I believe the reason Dean couldn’t even say Cas’ name in the episode is because they were going to change the spelling from “Cass” as it was in the show proper to the fan-adopted (and more accurate) spelling of “Cas,” which would have appeared in the subtitles and later the script pages.  And even that little thing right there would have been a huge giveaway to the whole game. And a very dangerous thing to do if there wasn’t going to be enough time for follow-through. 

But the truth is, this isn’t a game for many people, and the harm that can be caused by good intentions is just as real. It also begs the question: why should this be so difficult? The answer is it’s not. Edging forever isn’t fun. It’s torture. I understand there’s an art to storytelling, but your audience is weary, and trust has been violated too many times. Even still, the flip side of that coin is honest to god respect for DeanCas endgame means taking the story and the reveal seriously. It’s a tightrope walk. And one that Robbie somehow managed to keep balanced after the finale, without it falling either way.  Also we also need to consider the possibility that Jensen did pitch a full-on destiel love story spin-off but got shot down, opting to couch it in a more CW-branded world instead. He’s mentioned over half a dozen pitches were rejected. It's up to you whether you want to give him the benefit of the doubt on that.

But, I’m gonna be honest here, I don’t know that we will ever get that resolution we crave. Even Robbie confirmed The Winchesters were always meant to “go it alone” after the first season. It’s hard to imagine Dean popping in there to fuck around again after that handoff. But the dude is clearly a very restless sea-faring*, swoopy-haired mofo right now, so I’ll leave that one up to the SPN multiverse and the new Mr. Superwholock’s magical universe-traveling impala. (This show used to be about what again? *looks at notes*.) And FWIW, if they do get green-lit for a whole second season or are allowed to move networks, I believe a good-faith effort will be made to tie the narrative parallels we saw in season one to some real Dean and Cas resolution. If there gets to be a world where John *might* not turn into an abusive dick, then this possibility has to be true too.

For the record, I enjoyed The Winchesters, all the new characters, and the doors the finale opened for the possibility of more. I would have been fine half-watching it with no promises, empty head no thoughts, but I got my clown** suit on again, and though I mostly kept quiet, unlike last time, I did regrettably manage to drag a few friends down with me yet again.  Though the spec sessions were epic, and we did get some art out of it—it still rocks the boat when the base level expectations were only 1. Dean alive, and 2. seeing Cas again. 

But for anyone, like me, upset by the (likely unintentional) Cas-baiting or anyone still reeling about why this stuff can hit so hard, here’s an interesting article about the way our brains respond to fictional characters. Tl;dr: There’s nothing wrong with you. This is science. And while you’re at it, take a look at this article about the very real power of disenfranchised grief over character loss.

Ramble on, fam. And take care of yourselves.

<3 Jackie

*Um hi he appears as a sailor? Literally, on a show with a story Dean is writing whose audience is looking for a resolution to a conversation between two people who’re famously the “most shipped” characters of all time? That’s not an accident. That’s intentional. And it’s another reason why there might be a bitter taste in your mouth. These nods came without resolution, so it still feels dirty, despite the brilliant Easter egg.

**I hesitate to say “clown” here because the lesson on episode 12 was that the clowns were the ones who chose a self-induced limbo rather than face some personal hard revelations. That sounds more like a certain closeted character than it does the people cheering him on, and that felt like an intentional nod too.

***obviously, this is my own rambling spec as I try to reorder my thoughts in the wake of the finale.

[shallowseeker]

Bobby expects a lot of Cas...

At first Bobby fares okay, listening to Dean's rousing (fake) pep talk and feeling hopeful:

(In reality, Dean is devastated at finding out his role as a vessel, and he's still simmering over Sam's "Aw sucks I fucked up" attitude.)

But anyway BOBBY!

❤️❤️❤️❤️ Dean gave this speech for Bobby's benefit, and he's trying soo hard to cheer him up, even well into the next episode.

And it works! At first, Bobby AND Sam are so cheered up by the appearance of DEAN BOUNCING BACK, especially Sam. (In the very next scene, reality hits, and Sam realizes that Dean hasn't bounced back.)

Then, in the very next episode, it's Dean's parent figure that isn't bouncing back.

There's a fun parallel here: As Sam hopes/expects Dean to bounce back, Dean expects Bobby to bounce back.

////

Then... we PIVOT back to the theme of Cas's newly minted protectorship role:

And Cas calls Sam's phone, then comes marching in. And ha--Dean is being a little weird about the cellphone here. Why?

Why?

CAS: "I won't be able to simply-- (fly to your side)"

And perhaps Dean is feeling a little anxious about that.

Since learning he's the Michael sword, perhaps he's feeling the anxiety in a new way: more personal, more vulnerable.

///

Anyway, Cas's protectorship duties have instantly expanded to include Bobby. Just as Mary instantly identifies Cas as the one to put too much on, Bobby does the same.

///

Bobby is devastated, and as Dean listens, Dean is starting to feel even more afraid.

Because Cas can't assuage this new feeling of vulnerability, even though Dean may desperately want him to.

Cas has been more or less "invincible " until recently, but in the last few days, he's died and come back, and now Cas can't even fly to him whenever.

AND apparently, to make matters even scarier, Cas’s handcuffed with regards to powers.

///

DEAN: Wow. Uhm uhm awkward uh. I'll lighten the mood:

Anyway, what I like about these things with Bobby and Mary in particular...

It's like when Dean velcroed himself to Cas; they sense the dynamic and, by proxy, benefit from it. Dean's parents* are instantly awarded the privilege of Cas's strength and protectorship.

Dean gets a kind of spousal support from Cas, even to the point of asking Cas to fix things he can't fix or take on what Dean can't take.

And Dean's parents follow suit, expecting of Dean's partner husband protector of the hearth very VERY heavy familial duties.

[deancasforcutie]

While we’re I’llJustWaitHereThen.mp3 for Act Two of The Winchesters -or rather thee reboot, which should be known for the extra high bar it’s gained this year- I’d like us to round off 2023 considering a song choice from the finale I haven’t seen discussed, but illuminates Dean’s path going forward.

The moment Dean, Jack, Bobby, and Baby disappear, “One of These Things First” by Nick Drake plays. For the curious, Nick Drake is ingrained in the cultural consciousness as a precursor to the likes of Kurt Cobain and Elliott Smith for his musical talent, melancholic lyrics drawn from a troubled life, and (at 26, one year too young for the original 27 Club of Jimi Janis Jim Morrison) untimely tragic death.

Such allusions seem all too pertinent to our not-so-Mystery Man who’d also sooner burn out than fade away, huh? But first and foremost, “One of These Things First” here evokes the multiverse reveal - playing over scenes of Lata helping restore Ada’s soul and Mary and Samuel parting. The characters could be any number of things, but as Mary says of her possible alternate selves, “I’m gonna make my own”; with the meta knowledge that Dean is “picking the music” non-diegetically, this track’s relevance to his own life (and death) becomes apparent.

I could have been a sailor, could have been a cook A real live lover, could have been a book

From the start we see well-chosen lyrics for thee episode of Dean “Hello Sailor” Winchester; it goes without saying, here and in the series’ deafeningly loud negative space, how Dean’s desire to be ���a real live lover” drives his search for happy endings in this Supernatural Romance. Genius.com notes that “a book” in Nick Drake’s metaphor means “someone who spent their time gaining knowledge about the world”; leaving them his own book, evidently a record of Supernatural’s main events and likely intended as a setup for revelations about his postseries shenanigans, Dean becomes their absent guide opposite John’s original series role through his journal.

I could have been a signpost, could have been a clock As simple as a kettle, steady as a rock

Following lyrics about metaphorical objects also evoke Dean’s role as a guide - but given his view that “I think I did” find a model for his found family’s happiness in them, it goes both ways (and so does he).

I could be here and now I would be, I should be, but how?

These last few lyrics played in the episode call to mind the final undying core of Dean’s self-doubt: his inability to move on, like so many restless spirits parallel him. Dean’s sensation that he is not “here and now,” being unstuck in time and lamenting that he’s “already dead,” highlights his distance from the lead characters and their sense of closure - as does his use of the James Hetfield alias as a false name, dodging the central question of Who You Are. For all his heroism, Dean’s role as the central mystery never fully solved implicates him as the haunting force derailing another story into his own as much as any reality-warping trauma parasites.

Minding all these exhortations to mind the gap, it’s absolutely relevant that the episode omits a second verse centering on romantic longings. (It wouldn’t be the first time - “So on your woman and your child/You release your bitterness,” anyone?)

I could have been your pillar, could have been your door I could have stayed beside you, could have stayed for more I could have been your statue, could have been your friend A whole long lifetime could have been the end

Mary and Samuel’s exchange (“Be safe out there” “I love you too, kiddo”) continues the theme of Just Saying It before any goodbye - acknowledging you can say “I love you” without saying it and be understood. But apropos of everything, the romantic pair never exchanges what they promise they will on reuniting - at once begging the same question as Dean’s aborted love confession(s) to Cas (indicting the heteronormative double standard that makes the answer “obvious” here) and keeping their promise of no goodbyes, meaning “Ramble On” with its tale of a romantic reunion can only refer to one yet to come.

So with Dean left to learn that death is no goodbye for him either, The Winchesters reaffirms Supernatural’s humanistic heart: the conviction that -whether for great artists we romanticize or fictional characters representing our values- we need not mythologize and bemoan death as “robbing” the world of someone’s promise at the expense of affirming the intrinsically worthy human life as they are now and forever (we will all live forever no matter how dead we may sometimes seem to be). A life cut tragically short was still a life worth living, and its legacy one worth carrying on. And I can think of no truth more apt from the series cut short at 13 traxx we will nevertheless replay and remix and resonate with for years to come.

As we ramble on to future installments, I reiterate: “If you had the chance to do it all over again, would you?” “I followed my heart. I don’t think that’s ever a mistake.”

[soft-pine]

Hey hey, I saw you said you don't get many asks. I have one! Can you do any freeform thoughts about Pastor Jim? (What he represents, his skillset, how long John's known apparently him, how John cried for him, etc? Whatever you feel like, really.)

I'm fascinated by the fact that by your timeline, it seems that the once John starting leaving the kids with others, those folks started getting picked off pretty early, perhaps inflaming John's sense of paranoia and isolation in parallel to how Azazel isolated Mary and picked off her support systems.

And I'm curious how Pastor Jim fits into this. :-)

hi Shal! that's so nice!! sorry it took me so long to reply!

i love the connection you made with the timeline and people getting "picked off" as you say! yeah i think that would have certainly fueled john's paranoia and stretched him and stressed him even more!

also i apologize in advance because i know you're maybe not a self-described john-anti. and, though i find his character complex and fascinating and sometimes even sympathetic, i do have mostly harsh criticism for him. and also sorry cause your posts are so tidy and well formatted and this is gonna be kinda a spill out. i can pull up citations for anything here if needed though!!

but okay jumping in! i'm really fascinated by the people john had connections to while he was raising sam and dean and i'm interested in the two main subcategories of that group - people he had a falling out with versus people he didn't. pastor jim falls into that second category, along with martin, travis, fred jones, deacon, jefferson (?), and caleb. (the first category includes elkins, bobby, tara, ellen, etc).

i think that part of the reason john kept his family separate from the hunting community at large is because hunters tend to tell each other that kids shouldn't be involved. at least that is the kind of hunter dean became. and i think it's possible that some of the fallings out john had with other hunters was over that issue. that certainly is a contributing factor to the strain in his relationship with bobby.

so what does that say about the hunters which john remained in community with? we don't know much about jefferson or caleb. but martin has a black and white view of monsters and isn't worried about harming civilians himself to get results. travis also is impatient and cruel in his methods. fred jones gave both dean and sam alcohol before they were 10. and deacon is a physically abusive prison guard. maybe this is me being too harsh but those actions stick with me as they overlap with john's own black and white views and in contrast to bobby or ellen for example. none of that says anything specific about jim himself i guess but the general pattern of hunters who didn't have a falling out with john is interesting to me!

unfortunately, the other reason i have a somewhat negative view of pastor jim is i was raised evangelical and ... i did not care for all that. as best as i can tell jim is some form of protestant minister... and one whose denomination has some kind of liturgical tradition. one of my early fic chapters is kinda about him actually. or i mean about the kind of person/pastor that he strikes me as and about the comradery and tension between him and john.

i tend to think of john as somewhat of an atheist. a "nothing up there's gonna save you, you gotta do it for yourself" kinda guy. so i think he kinda puts up with jim's beliefs and faith because jim has a very safe base of operations and seems very well equipped. i also imagine that jim is someone who can offer the kind of emotional support johh might need. from his brief conversation with meg at the beginning of 1.21, it seems like he's used to offering kind of talk-therapy-esque conversations. here's a little excerpt from my fic that shows that kinda?

Dad must have wrapped up his hunt cause he's back in the morning when Dean goes into the house to brush his teeth. “I just don't know how to do it,” Dad's voice is saying, low and quiet from the kitchen. He sounds like maybe he's crying. Dean crouches down low in the front hall. If he walks past the kitchen door, they're going to hear him. “I know, John,” Pastor Jim says. “I know.” “You know, I... I try to do right by those boys... not lay it all on them. But I just. I miss her so much.” Dad is crying now. “You're doing the best you can, John.” “Sam's too young to really understand all this stuff and I know Dean tries,” Dad lets out a long sigh. Dean digs the tips of his fingers into the coarse hallway rug. He doesn't want his Dad to feel like this. He hates that his Dad is sad and he hates that he hasn't done a good enough job making sure Dad knows he can talk to him if he needs to. That he'd do anything. “I've got to hold it together for them, Jim. And some days I feel like I can't.”

(rereading that chap and it's possible i put a bit too much of my own knowledge of and baggage about evangelical issues in the late 80's into it... oopsie)

i really am inclined to think john knew jim for the longest of most of his contacts. i mean in the semi-canonical john's journal, he meets him at the end of the month that mary dies! but even by the show's timeline, jim is trusted enough for john to have him as a backup safehouse for the boys as early as 1988 which suggests he's known him at least some time by that point.

from all the conversations sam and dean have with travis, martin, fred, and deacon, it doesn't seem like they or john have seen any of those people for a long time. but in s1, they're still very in touch with pastor jim. is he perhaps john's oldest and most consistent friend?

which tracks with john's deeply emotive response to jim's death. i would argue the most grief he shows in the show besides for mary. i think that tracks with the loss of a support and confidant of decades. certainly both caleb and jim's death show a devotion to john beyond a care for their own lives.

i'm sorry i don't know if i have much to say about jim's skill set! some of the specific mechanics of hunting and the supernatural are not quite in the purview of the way my spn-special-interest shows up im sorry! but i think the church as sacred ground and jim's familiarity with the concept of demons would both protect him somewhat from azazel's lower level minions and also probably endear john to him.

and what he represents!? oh gosh! i think your narrative analysis is on another level from the one im dabbling around in.

thanks for the ask!! and thanks for all your amazing analysis!

[charcubed]

Hi. I tend to forget that tumblr exists and just shout all my thoughts about The Winchesters on Twitter @CharCubed, which is a problem, but for once in my life I'm posting something here!

Here are some broad Thoughts on where I've landed of what this season 1 finale of The Winchesters offered–

• I very much want season 2 of this show SO badly. I want to see how they all continue to build their lives now that we know tragedy need not be their end! THIS IS THE HEALING SHOW. That whole cast gets to write their own story... "the only thing that's worse than how it starts for a hunter is how it ends" is no longer the case, as Carlos already said... and Dean helped to free them? That fucks.

• In regards to those possibilities: now that Dean would no longer be framing the prequel as a story he's telling, it frees the prequel up to no longer be doubling as Dean's story through revealing mirroring–which is very much what it's been doing for 12 episodes. Now the monster plots and the storylines for those characters in The Winchesters can also be diversified, so every episode no longer has to include, for example... [checks notes] a situation where a character is literally and/or metaphorically trapped and has to confront their trauma, break cycles of violence, and speak truths to be freed. It's been very Loud and very much Like This Constantly because it's Dean's story, but now it won't have to be anymore, which is an interesting thing to contemplate! (To be clear, for those unaware of my history of yelling about this show: I love that it was Like This. This show is fucking genius.)

• Initially, this finale had some alarm bells pinging in my brain but then I parsed the Reasons for those things. Mary told John she had "Something to say," right? And then she never says it. That's a Chekhov's gun that's never fired and it's of course paralleling how Dean has "something to say" to Cas too. Them not speaking that truth is a problem. In addition, we also got a montage eerily akin to the 15x19 one. But these callbacks / parallels to s15 all loudly indicate something very specific: The Winchesters is an unfinished story, and this finale (like the rest of this show) is mirroring and revealing truths about the prime narrative of SPN. For one thing, with the prequel they originally expected to have 22 or so episodes and ended up having 13 to work with. For another... this is the START of their story, not the end. So along those lines, what can we deduce about the end of season 15? (Hint: that finale is not an ending either.)

• Speaking of which: We learn that everything Dean was just doing takes place in the ~heavenly~ time period before Sam “dies." This all functionally happened right after Dean died as he drove down that road. He is restless, unmoored, grieving, and–this is key–considers his "ending" to be an unhappy happy one. He's fucking around and finding out, looking for and unpacking (through his narration) what he needs and wants for HIS happy ending to look like. He found out about the Akrida being a failsafe from Chuck and couldn't resist meddling to save everyone. It's also worth noting that Dean says to Jack something like, "If you have to kick me out of Heaven then that's fine." Between the lines is the thought of "please kick me out of Heaven, I'm causing problems because I'm grieving and I'm not done, I don't want this 'peace' but would rather have freedom." That in itself is a massive subversion of the SPN finale, to say nothing of the previous 12 episodes we've received.

Anyway. So in terms of Dean's story, we now know that this all takes place smack in the middle of 15x20 timeline-wise. This checks out because Bobby's presence connects to him being the only one we saw in 15x20. And... what I personally consider to be Jack's incredibly fucked up or ~potentially taken over by Chuck~ vibes are, in that sense, consistent with 15x19 as well. (I'm so sorry but please let me drop this cursed "Alex Calvert playing Chuck" joke by Jensen from August 2022 which haunts me.)

So: nothing about the concept that @chuckwon at the end of season 15 has been confirmed or denied in canon at this point. The idea that Chuck LOST, as Dean says here, is simply what Dean may still be thinking (which makes sense). But nothing has fundamentally changed about the state of how season 15 left things in the prime narrative yet... largely because that's not what this story is / was about.

In terms of what this finale presented to us, I think "Chuck won" potential was all deliberately left open. And I continue to Call Bullshit on the finale accordingly. A Chuck won plot line COULD be used in a future sequel to great affect, or it could NOT be used in a future sequel. That will be totally up to the future authors / team behind that potential sequel to see what story they choose to tell, and where it all may or may not go. But until then (on that front) right now it's the same shit, different show, and deliberately literally nothing about that potential has changed.

• I LOVE all of the above now that I've parsed it all in my brain. It makes perfect sense. Much like we were never going see the gay angel pop up in this show and kiss Dean (with apologies to anyone who somehow thought otherwise?)... leaving other things open like this is fantastic and the objectively correct call. Dean's story is HIS story to be furthered elsewhere, whereas this show belonged and continues to belong to its cast of characters who must take center stage. But through this story within a story narrated by Dean himself, we learned a hell of a lot about his state of mind as it actively stands in 15x20. Or more accurately: the entire show reinforces and reiterates comprehensively and repeatedly that the SPN finale was wrong and bad and not the end of the story at all, and now canonically and openly and in no uncertain terms that that's how Dean feels too.

• AND THUS: season 1 of The Winchesters works as deeply clever and layered commentary on Supernatural's ending and presents the stepping stone for a sequel continuation for Dean and his family. It's also the beginning of a new chapter with endless potential for The Winchesters' cast of characters who are not tied to fate or main timeline.

I fucking love it here.

Truly, madly, deeply: ALL HAIL ROBBIE THOMPSON.

And seriously, I really hope we get a season 2 because I adore all of the prequel's characters on their own merit and I want to see what their story can become :')

[ananke-xiii]

I’ve ended my post about Mary as a symbolic gift by saying that there wasn’t real space in the show for a Mary who was “not just a mom” but, truth be told, I think there wasn’t real space in the show for any character whose story wasn’t connected to Sam and Dean. As far as I’ve understood the show, the obsessive focus on Sam and Dean is both its main strength and its main weakness and I think that the finale showed it.

It’s not news that in SPN every side character who stops being useful to the plot dies. Or they die because their death is instrumental to the plot and/or the emotional arc of either Sam or Dean. Or both. This is true of every era and, I believe, it’s a rather foundational aspect of the show. This is the reason why, from a general narrative pov, I often compare the brothers to two cosmogonic forces because they are the ones creating their world which is THE world where everything and everyone depend on their story. There’s even an episode, “Weekend at Bobby’s”, where Sam and Dean sort of get called out because they only seem to care about themselves. Which isn’t true (well, more or less I'd argue, lol) but it is true that the show is exceedingly concerned with them and them alone. This extreme focus on the main character(s) is something that I haven’t found in any other show, to be quite frank with you.

Partial exceptions are Jody, Donna and the rest of the Wayward Sisters but that’s just because they wanted to use those characters for a spin-off. In reality we never know what happens to them after “Inherit the Earth”, what happens to Eileen, to AU!Bobby, to AU!Charlie, hell even to human Chuck. A good opportunity to show them one last time and tell us what happened to them would’ve been at Dean’s funeral. A funeral where nobody shows up. I know it was because of COVID restrictions but they still filmed and left that scene. So they wanted to tell us something with that, wanted us to see it. And we saw it, which I take as a way for the show to tell us that the story was really over and Dean’s death was final. I don’t want to go into the big “family is hell” vs “found family” debate but wherever you are on the two sides of the argument you kinda have to admit that it was very sad and quite cruel to show us that nobody attended Dean’s funeral.

The other exceptions are Crowley, Rowena and Castiel, three characters that have their own individual storylines that, to the surprise of no one, end when they get inextricably linked with that of the Winchesters. Crowley dies slowly and painfully of the Winchester Derangement Syndrome, whereas Rowena is revealed to be united with Sam in death. Her death. Castiel is the only character who escapes this narrative destiny right until 15x18 where he says that the reason he cared about the world was because of Dean. And then he also dies.

Perhaps the association between “worlds” and the “brothers” is at its most blatant in S13 where the Alternate Universe is a universe without Sam and Dean and, therefore, a boring universe, imo. And when I say “without Sam and Dean” I don’t mean in the sense that they were never born there but that they never even stepped foot there until, like, the last three episodes (and, by the way, they made them act like total dicks bossing around people in a war-zone.). This is not to say that, for example, Original Bobby (since I’ve mentioned him before) doesn’t have his own story, quite something else. This is to say that the vast majority of side characters in SPN have their own stories but their own stories only serve to “mirror and parallel” Sam and Dean’s. In other words, other characters’ stories are, apart from the above exceptions, always functional to the cosmogonic brothers. Case in point is that episode in S15 where Chuck eliminates all other worlds/drafts because what he cares about are “our” Sam and Dean. Sure, that was a jab at all the failed SPN spin-off but, again, this proves my point: people, much like Chuck, are interested in Sam and Dean and Sam and Dean alone (Big hello to those two Sam and Dean hopefully living a good life in Brazil, cheers! Or did Jack fix that as well? Who knows!).

The reason why Sam and Dean are absent in the Alternate Universe is not because they’re dead or were never supposed to be there but because Mary didn’t deal with Azazel. This interests me a lot because the cosmogonic aspect here is Mary’s choice: Mary is, de facto, a creator of worlds. Two to be precise but still, not bad. Now this would actually be an interesting spin-off, right? A series where Mary is one of the main characters and we get to focus on her? Oh wait, there is a spin-off about that. Or at least I think this is partly what “The Winchesters” is about because I haven’t watched it yet. It was, sadly, canceled and I don’t know why (these days they cancel shows according to the mood of the day apparently) but I’ll have to go with the current obscure ways of making profit in the media industry (as far as I know, people have no access to data to understand why certain decisions are made). This is, after all, the real world and in the real world god is profit and not a writer.

The centrality of Mary’s choice in S13 is not part of the original story that, on the contrary, was based on the notion that everything was predetermined and the struggle of our main characters was exactly this: will they or won’t they be able to exercise free will? However S13 reframes the original story because now what is deemed to be relevant is whether or not Mary is just a mother or… “not just a mom”. To use an image that’s become dear to me, the main weight put on one scale was still imagined motherhood: Mary as a character could only compare&contrast against that, against herself (as originally conceived by the narrative) and how she had imagined herself to be. She is therefore never fully free from being Sam and Dean’s mother because she’s never fully free from her own imagined motherhood. Which means she’s never fully free from her Special Heaven where she’s fake-happy with two fake-babies in a fake-perfect house and with who must be a fictional, imagined version of John. Which means that she’s not complete.

I mean, I'm surely not the only one who sees the illogicality here: Mary represents a myth about motherhood and safety and this myth takes the form of a nuclear family living in suburbia with the infamous white picket fence. Okay. She comes back to life to debunk this myth and we see that she's actually very different from how she was portrayed because she's adventurous and wild and taciturn but also leader-like, cold and secretly very sweet. Again, okay. But then she dies and we're told she's complete but we're also told (we don't see it, we're told) she's in a Special Heaven with John which, by the way, sounds very suspisciously close to Heaven's Prison. Fine, alright, okay! BUT THEN what is Mary's heaven (and, later on, everybody's heaven)? A myth about family and safety in the form of a nuclear family living in a sort of overexposed country-side. Like, what???

As I see it, what was needed to deconstruct Mary’s myth was for her to come to terms not only with the fact that her sacrifice was made in vain because there’s (apparently) no escape from the hunting world, but that she had deceived herself. For example, she might have discovered that she kinda doesn’t like leading the imagined life she used to dream about or perhaps her dream was always tainted in real life by what happened with Azazel so she never felt safe anyway, thus removing the one thing she ever wanted by getting out of the huntig world. I could go on and on but what I want to say is that it’s not enough, for me at least, to know that Mary likes to fuck and used to feed her children store-bought meals. This is cool but accessory. Do not show me the conflicted emotions of a character re: her past choices by giving me a WORLD where that character doesn’t make said choice (and therefore feels better about it). Let me see her as she realizes she was also going after a myth, let me see her as she realizes that the man she loved went basically half-mad with grief after her death, let me see her as she realizes how sorrowful her sons’ lives have been. Let me see her interact and generally be around the main characters/focus of the show.

As I’ve said, she couldn’t be free from her own myth because the narrative still needed her for Dean to be free from his own myth. To be honest I think it was a very cool idea and the two things could’ve been done together (I think it’s clear by now that I feel sorry for Mary as a character but that doesn’t mean that debunking the image of a parent isn’t a cool concept to write about). However, it totally was a retcon because S11 Amara, as much as I adore her, didn’t have the experience nor the emotional tools to understand such a deep human concept. She understood that humans need to experience/feel unconditional love and that this love can take the form of parental love from a time when humans are babies that need to be nurtured and cared for. So she saw a picture of Dean and Mary and, by virtue of her bond with Dean, she thought: oh now I get it! And she was right!!! But, like, human relationships are OF COURSE more intricate than this and there’s no way she could’ve understood all this in S11. If she had really understood it she would’ve never brought back a person just for another person to learn a lesson.

This ultimately also proves my point: Mary couldn’t be anything else than a mother in the show because the show itself is focused on Sam and Dean and everybody else depend on them to stay or not in their story. Mine is not necessarily a criticism, on the contrary, the show strikes a real chord with the mythical parent vs real one. But it didn’t let us see it because they decided that bringing back Mary just for her to be a mom would be awful. And they were correct! but, again, you can’t just bring back a central character like her and then spend the rest of THREE seasons writing her OUT of her sons’ story just for her to re-appear on time for her scheduled appointment with the fridge.

But they couldn’t do it because to have Mary back as a real fucking person would have meant, at some inevitable point in time, for the show to have her and her sons sit down and seriously talk about what the fuck happened since her death. To talk about John, to talk about the abuse, to talk about the demon blood, Hell, the Cage, the mark of Cain and, oh by the way we killed grandpa! Which means the show would have had to directly deal with trauma and they clearly didn’t want to go there. Only parallels and mirrors, mirrors and parallels. Mary never left that fridge.

[tavolgisvist]

You learn a lot of tricks when you write as many songs as I do. I mean, to call them tricks might belittle them a bit. We could dress them up as ‘skills’, but they are tricks when you get down to it. You might not write them down and think, ‘These are my tricks,’ but they’re stored in the back of your head, and when you’re writing a song you use the ones you like best. One of my tricks is to have two short lines followed by one long line: Going fast Coming soon We made love in the afternoon I’m sure there are millions of echoes and parallels with things I’ve read, or even nursery rhymes like: Rain, rain Go away Come again another day

(Paul McCartney about We Got Married in The Lyrics, 2021)

This nursery rhymes also are in Rain Rain Go Away which released by Bobby Vinton in August 1962:

I can still remember When you moved in next door I brought you some choc'late From the corner candy store When it started raining You started crying too That was the first time I sang this song to you Rain rain go away Come again some other day Rain rain go away Bring my love a sunny day We grow up together And as the years went by Ev'rybody knew that we were Sweethearts you and I Through many april showers I held your hand in mine Between the raindrops We sang time after time Rain rain go away Come again some other day Rain rain go away Bring my love a sunny day I went away to college You said you'd wait for me Then I got your letter Asking me to set you free Tomorrow you'll be maried There's nothing I can do But wish you sunshine Now and your whole life through Rain rain go away Tomorrow is her wedding day Rain rain go away Bring my love a sunny day