#blacksun critical

[dragynkeep]

Why do you think it would've made sense for freezerburn to become canon?

i think they've just had more of an interesting dynamic together, complete with moments where they actually seem to have these in depth talks that we're begging for from the show itself.

weiss is a major part of yang's healing journey when they finally reunite, weiss is also the only one that yang doesn't blame for leaving her because that's not what weiss did & she can acknowledge that. when we finally get their reunification in v5, it's chock full of romantic tropes including "rescuing the princess", "meeting the family", "hand touch to calm your lover down" & the entire scene of raven & yang has weiss as a consistent there to keep her grounded.

even when ruby, yang's own sister, doesn't know how to handle yang's trauma & upset surrounding beacon & blake: weiss does. weiss allows her a space to vent out her feelings before reminding yang that she is there for her.

& it doesn't go just one way, yang is also the only person weiss opens up to about her family history before they go to atlas. yang was also pretty much the only one willing to go toe to toe with weiss on her behaviours that weren't acceptable without having to put her own identity on the line: yang stood up to weiss's overbearing nature in the earlier volumes because she could.

the communication between these two has always been top notch, especially since they were chosen as the doubles for the beacon tournament & even after the vytal festival when blake, yang's supposed love interest, doubts yang & believes that she would be capable of brutally maiming someone: weiss doesn't. weiss immediately gets on blake for even entertaining the idea & that loyalty never wavers in the show, as well as vice versa.

there have been other things like their romantic coded playful bickering in regards to the dance, yang & weiss always seeming to gravitate towards one another whenever they're in a scene together & other things in their designs as well as yellow / blue / white just being the perfect colour scheme. yang's original colour scheme also featured blue instead of purple.

even when you contrast the songs of this ship vs the "canon" ship: looking at "home" vs "all that matters" or even "worthy" in the most recent volume, the tones are completely different.

home plays when yang & weiss reunite & weiss's knight, the protector in a time of great stress, practically floats away because she knows that she's safe with yang. the song itself talks about feeling safety in the other person, finding that feeling of home & security, of not having to wonder or worry about what will happen next.

conversely: all that matters is a song of a traumatized person abandoning their boundaries so the person they cared for won't further harm them emotionally. it's laying down all her self respect & care just so she can try & cling onto them. even the follow up of "worthy" only seems to double down on this in now both of them, that have been so conversely toxic with each other in this relationship versus with other people, are now "worthy" of this love which is such a damaging viewpoint to take.

so yeah, all in all i think freezerburn thrives because it's not written consciously as a canon relationship with romantic undertones, but they are there nonetheless & they're more convincing than whatever we got for the main ship. which only seems to echo what miles has said in a recent cameo where they find writing romance "hard" which. sounds like a skill issue to me lmao.

[nogoawaytism]

I'm not quite sure what's going on here, but I, along with several other RWDE accounts have noticed a couple of otherwise blank profiles advocating for the harassment of Bumblebee shippers, in the name of other ships like Eclipse and Freezerburn. Since the accounts were created today, and there's at least two of them, I'd say it's the same person trying to start shit. Now I'm not quite sure what the point of doing this is, either they're actually that delulu, and too much of a coward to post it on their main account, or it's actually some Bumblebee shipper trying to pull some 4d chess move to make RWDE (and by extension other shippers) look in the wrong here. Considering how bee shippers always project how those dang dirty freezerburn/eclipse shippers are Big Meanies who harass others while bee shippers themselves do exactly that, I wouldn't be surprised by the latter. Regardless though, harassing anyone is unacceptable, and it's fucking stupid to stoop as low as the worst shippers out there. Also, the mfer calling for this shit is throwing out a bunch of homophobic slurs while supporting a wlw ship, which I find rather suspicious. Freezerburn shippers, Eclipse shippers, and the members of RWDE are not supporters of homophobia, as diverse as we are. It's stupid to call for harassment or violence over some cartoon ships, you don't even need to be an adult to realize this. As much as I prefer other ships, I have no ill will towards the BMBLB community, and I'm sure many others would say the same. Harassing others, especially people who are innocently trying to enjoy something they love, is super vile. Block them and move on.

[stanlunter]

I have to be honest I am annoyed at them equating bb to catradora when its more like adam x blake. but to be honest I still say bb reeks of direction change that shouldnt have happened and that there are alot of bad stuff about it. ( bb only began to be teased in v6 finale at best while blacksun got years of teasing mutual attraction and development blakes va even admitted that in the v5 commentary that while blacksun are meant to be she wishes bb to be canon)

Nah, I actually agree. I always say that catradora is more like Tauradonna and it can't and shouldnt be compared with bumbleby only bc It's a cat girl ans a stoeng blondy, at least bc they are healthy and have absolutely different dynamic. However it doesn't mean bumbleby is a good couple, it just mean It's far far better than catradora (which isn't a hard thing tbh, almost everything is better than catradora)

And yes, they are healthy, but I don't that's just it. They aren't really interesting or well-written. They just exist. And I would lie if I said that this ship had a great potential, but was rushed, bc tbh, Ive never even saw that potential. I mean, yeah, they have smth in common, like hating Adam, but It's not smth rhat would make them fall in love with each other and before they were just friends. May be Yang had a kind of a crush on Blake, bur for Blake Yang never was and never had a potential to be smth more than a good friend and in v2 Blake made it clear that she prefers Sun as a partner. They had a great development and their feelings for each other made good sence from the very beginning, not only they had sm in common, but they also had a reasonable development, Sun even met Blake's parents and tried to look like a good bf with them (he is a good bf).

And the saddest thing is that they wasted such a good potential for nothing. I dont have any hateness towards bumbleby, but let's be honest, this ship is just boring and the only reasons why people love it are bc It's canon and wlw.

At this point, I would much more love it if Roosters made White rose or Nuts and Dolts canon, bc these ships had a much better build up and story behind. Or if they wanted to give Yang a gf, even Weiss would be better bc at least they clearly had a chemistry.

So yeah, I absolutely agree with you

[rwac96]

Looking back at the execution of Bumbleby in Canon, I gotta agree with this image wholeheartedly.

[metal-berry]

RWBY die-hards are so funny tbh. They spent the past five years deliberately and vehemently gatekeeping the fndm to a ridiculously high degree, doing things like gloating that they were "purging" the fndm of all but the show's most ardent worshipers, launching vicious smear campaigns against anyone and everyone who said even the mildest bit of criticism and slinging baseless accusations of "sexism" and "homophobia" against them (even though an overwhelming majority of their targets have been queer or women or both, while an overwhelming majority of RWBY's creative team have been straight men with histories of open misogyny and queerphobia) they've bullied fan-artists off every platform, they've sent hate mail, death threats, rape threats, slurs, they've literally posted long lists of "rules" they expect fans to follow "or else" (and the rules include things like "you must fiercely advocate for my favorite ship" and "you must love my favorite characters and hate my least favorites" and "No AU's or Fix-it fics allowed" and then if anyone is caught breaking these "rules" they get labeled as "the HTDM" and viciously smeared and bullied out of the fndm, they've deliberately sought out popular fanworks and started viciously smearing and harassing the fan creators while gloating "if you criticize the product sold by a corporation, we get to coordinate cyberbullying campaigns against you as an individual artist who makes fanart for free, because those are totally the same thing in our minds so you deserve it!!!" They've swarmed YouTubers like penguinz0 or Hbomberguy and harassed them with death threats and accused them of "trying to kill rwby" (as if it couldn't possibly have anything to do with 1. Rooster Teeth being a horrifically abusive and bigoted company that every decent person decided to stop supporting, 2. "CRWBY" being comprised of and run by Rooster Teeth bigwigs including four of the five founding fathers of the company and several department heads, many of whom have open histories of extreme bigotry themselves, which bled into the show and caused extreme bigotry to be baked into the writing itself, and 3. *this exact fandom*, all of which together are enough of a poison itself, to the point where having a couple of youtubers say "so this isn't a good mix" was never going to actually affect viewership NEARLY as much as the Corporation and Fandom were already doing) and also can we talk about the horrific amounts of biphobia that gets leveled against the people who ship Blake with literally ANYONE other than Yang and ship Yang with literally ANYONE other than Yang?? Because my god the biphobia that exists within the Die-Hards in this fandom is off the fucking charts. The amount of specifically bisexual fans who have been viciously attacked because they did not list bumblby among all the queer ships they liked. The amount of times I've seen people say things like "the only reason anyone likes BlackSun is if they're homophobic" when a lot of BlackSun shippers are openly bi and ship them as a bi-for-bi ship. The amount of times I've seen people say things like "the only reason anyone PRETENDS to like Freezerburn is if they're trying to shove Yang with a random girl so they can force Blake to date a stinky MAN while using Yang and Weiss as shields to protect themselves from being caught as the homophobes they really are." The amount of times I've seen people attack fans who ship Blake with Ilia or Ruby or Nora, or fans who ship Yang with Pyrrha or Neon or Nora, because it *does not matter* if you actively ship a hundred queer rwby ships and write hundreds of fics about it and draw endless fanart of it, if you say "eh I personally just don’t care for Blake X Yang" or even if you say "I used to be a hard-core bumblby shipper but the way the writers chose to execute it left a lot to be desired and turned me off the ship" you get labeled a "Sexist Homophobe" and violently abused and bullied. It's fucking disgraceful, it's NO WONDER this fandom is fucking dead

When a fandom: a) posts strict rules detailing exactly which interpretations, headcanons, character opinions, and ships are REQUIRED in order to be considered "not a hater," b) viciously attacks and harasses every single person on the internet who does not follow those strict rules and labels them a "hater" because of it, c) slings baseless and despicable accusations of "sexism" and "homophobia" against these so-called "haters," because apparently they're too ignorant to pick up a dictionary and learn that "criticizing rwby" is not included in the definition of those words, while also completely ignoring or even *denying* the fact that most of their targets are queer women and most of our complaints are that *rwby is textbook sexist and homophobic and RACIST AND ABLEIST and was created and almost entirely written by openly sexist and homophobic and racist and ableist men, and you actually kind of have to have failed Progressivism 101 in order to not see it,* d) engages in open bigotry themselves by attacking marginalized people to punish them for condemning bigotry while using bigoted slurs and dogwhistles against them, and e) deliberately "purges" the fandom of every single fanartist, fanfic writer, theorist, meta analyst poster, or even shit-poster who DARED to express an opinion that didn't conform to the "rules" and therefore got labeled a "bigoted hater" who "laid down with the dogs" and was "guilty by association..."

The fandom dwindles away to nothing, and dies

And then the last remaining Die-Hards who got their wish and "purged" the fandom of everybody whose opinions did not 100% align with theirs, get all pissy whenever they see somebody like you acknowledge the empty void left behind

The fandom got so militant and zealous with their gatekeeping that there's just nobody left anymore, except for the few who turned Worshiping RWBY into a cult and violently kicked out everyone who didn't conform - but they consider that to be a "victory" so they attack every new straggler who walks into the vast empty field and says "there used to be a fandom here."

That post that was made five years ago about how it was time for the mega-stans to "purge the fndm" of everyone who didn't conform to THEIR view of the show? Yeah lol well they succeeded and I hope they're happy with their echo-chamber of circle-jerking Yes-Men who have been throwing all their hard-earned money at bigots and abusers while crying about the uncertain future of the show they turned into their identity, and I hope one day they realize that THEY contributed to Rooster Teeth's downfall far more than the critics ever did

Because fandom has historically thrived on diversity of opinion, including the allowance of criticism and the celebration of fanworks

So when a culty subsection of the fandom decrees that freedom of expression is WRONG and differing opinions are WRONG and writing fanfiction they don't like is WRONG and drawing fanart they don't like is WRONG and shipping ships they don't like is WRONG and not shipping the ships they do like is WRONG and liking characters they dislike is WRONG and disliking the characters they do like is WRONG and criticizing the corporation behind the product is WRONG and holding the product creators accountable for their hateful and ignorant beliefs is WRONG and choosing to withhold our money from those who have been proven to be abusive bigots is WRONG and therefore demanding change instead of letting them keep getting away with everything is WRONG, and so they are so totally justified in their efforts to deliberately cyberstalk, harass, and bully the "Arrogant, Entitled, Ungrateful" non-conformists until they've driven everybody away...

The fandom dies

And there's nobody left to BUY THE PRODUCT

*shocked Pikachu face* that RT went belly-up???

The Die-Hard Mega-Stans are the ones that killed RWBY. That's why they're so desperate to point fingers and bitterly curse the names of all the fans they deliberately ORDERED to "Stop Watching," "Stop Posting," "Stop talking," "Stop Writing," "Stop Drawing," "Stop BUYING," and that's why they're so fucking ANGRY every time they see proof that their mass gatekeeping, mass cyberbullying, mass smearing campaigns WORKED.

The fandom is dead because they fucking drowned it on purpose, and they refuse to admit that fact to themselves

What else can they do but lash out?

What else is there to say? You nailed it. I was there in the very beginning when the fandom was thriving and I watched the wasps slowly kill it. I remember all the creative au’s and how even rarepairs got content. It’s not even a husk of its former self, it’s crumbled dust.

[professorspork]

I hope this doesn't come off as an invasive question, I'm just curious how you came up with which fetishes to depict in each chapter of SDAU.

not invasive at all, if only insofar as the short answer is of course a) because i thought it was in-character and b) if I didn't at least find it at least nominally appealing myself i wouldn't have had any interest in writing it now would i so that's a bit of a tell

but short answers are no fun, of course, so let's break it down shall we?

Chapter 1: Thursday

This chapter was always intended to go hot and heavy, both as a genuine Watsonian introduction to Blake's world and as a sort of Doylist vibe-check for readers of "if you can't stomach this you're probably not going to enjoy the rest of this story, you can click the back button no harm no foul." but it's interesting to me that you specified fetishes rather than sex acts, because generally speaking that was a lot clearer to me in the conception of each scene. i knew what i was *going* for, even if I didn't always know from the outset how I would get there. so!

in this instance, I knew the vibe I wanted to nail (har har) was the degradation and humiliation aspect of Sun's kink. partially because I think that that's what canon Blacksun would have to be like-- if Sun didn't get something out of Blake being a dismissive and controlling sardonic shit to him they would never have stayed friends, jfc look at how she TALKS to him (and slaps him, twice!!!)-- but also because I really wanted to explore what that would be like for Blake, who doesn't *share* the kink (and in fact has some trauma around it) but still earnestly desires to indulge it, and gets something out of Sun's satisfaction in it.

I know I can write some Dora-the-Explorer-ass "seatbelts everyone!" sex scenes, but my goal is always verisimilitude that encompasses that-- never to break immersion. (I also find the sort of call-and-response ritual of verbal consent to be deeply erotic when actually portrayed like the act of intimacy it is rather than a chore or a checklist, so there's that.) i think i probably went a little more overboard than i had to in terms of in-prose justifications of the spicier moments, adding mental "because she knows he likes it so much" or "as they'd responsibly negotiated previously" caveats instead of letting things ride, but I also think that I got away with it because this Blake, like all Blakes, is deeply anxious and would feasibly have those self-soothing measures on the brain.

this (and what comes later in Dungeon Master) was also my avenue to explore just how "into character" Blake could get, because she goes full Domme performance here in a way she doesn't-- and in fact can't, constitutionally-- with Yang later on. she'll tease Yang, and isn't shy about being direct or even forceful, but I think she's hypersensitive to sounding *critical*-- due to a combination of a) her cognizance of her own responsibility as a sex partner of a trans woman generally and b) what being in love does to her and makes her feel specifically.

less under the umbrella of "fetish" and more in terms of erotica writ large and the broader goals of the fic, it was also very important to me to write a sex scene featuring (and glorifying in) bottom growth because THERE SHOULD BE MORE OF THEM OUT THERE.

Interstice: Sun

I saw an opportunity to put Blake in cat ears and I took it.

Chapter 2: Dungeon Master

listen, it is not my fault that Emerald Sustrai very obviously has a mommy kink situation that can be seen from space. that is in some ways the MOST obvious example of "I'm just depicting the character as I honestly see them, no agenda" in the whole fic. (well. tied for first place with Yang and the gag, but more on that later.)

the wax play with Russel was just a kind of scene I'd never written before that I thought would be fun and hot (lololol literally), and the come-on scene with Neon and Flynt was always intended to be more about Blake's social standing, experience, and inherent comfort at the club rather than the actual kinks involved.

Emerald, on the other hand, was supposed to be about the sort of... I'm not quite sure how to put it. the perils of unrestrained Id? a cautionary tale? Emerald *doesn't know herself,* that's part of her whole off-screen journey that gets paid off in in the end. she just knows that she Wants, but not what she wants, which makes the fact that she can only get what she wants by asking for it an immense frustration to her. she HATES that. so she tries to skirt by entirely on innuendo and provocation to force other people to make the decisions for her so she can just take whatever is given and deal with it, for good or ill.

and for Blake, that's a nightmare situation because she's basically used a sex club instead of therapy for the last several years of her life precisely because it's SUPPOSED to have these guardrails and people are supposed to know what they're looking for so nothing can cross lines. emerald basically shows her that that's a convenient lie she's been telling herself (one of many). emerald simultaneously shows Blake just how far she's come from where she's started-- which is quite far!!-- but also shows her she's gotten as much out of this particular coping strategy as she's ever gonna get. if Blake wants to grow more or get healthier, she cannot just keep doing what she's been doing. it's been clear to her friends for a while, but this is the moment it becomes clear to her. and if it hadn't already been, she could never have actually accepted it when Neptune says it at the end of this chapter.

Chapter 3: Beacon

no fetishes here. really the headline here is what i very much did NOT want to come off as a fetish, which is the way Blake becomes more attracted to Yang after she clocks her.

threading that needle and exploring that line-- the difference between "you are even more beautiful to me now because I see who you are and the fortitude it took to become that person, and the things I already found attractive before stand out even more to me now, and also Trans Women Are Hot We Don't Have To Make A Thing Of It" versus, like... getting weirdly prescriptive and flirting with straight-up physiognomy and ABSOLUTELY making a thing of it is not always an easy one to strike! honestly bless @alexkablob for being so patient with me because i had her read minutely different versions of that moment over and over and over again so the scene came across the way i intended it to: not being cutesy, not trying to obscure the fact that Blake is attracted to Yang BECAUSE she's trans, rather than in spite of or ignoring it.

i think-- or at least, i'd like to think-- that more cis writers want to be braver about writing trans-inclusive romance but don't for fear of sounding chaser-y. and this scene was always About That, in every way it's possible to be about that, for Blake AND for me

Chapter 4: Dirty Laundry

the fetishes depicted here-- electroplay and vampire roleplay-- don't have any significance unto themselves but instead are meant to be wider examples of Blake's true kink, which is indulging the kinks of others. Blake is GAME, not because she thinks she has to be or because it's an expectation Adam put on her, but because she's down for a challenge and likes to be the reason people get off.

Blake's just, embarrassingly, really into improv. that yes-and instinct gets her into weird sexy situations at the club, and also makes her very fun to play DND with.

Chapter 5: Proper Socialization

this is where we first start to see the signs of Blake's next self-inflicted mental health crisis, which is "i am somehow diminishing Yang by having sexy thoughts about her being submissive because obviously she'd never agree to that" blake. BLAKE what are yoU TALKING ABOUT

YOU COULD TRY. ASKING.

like Blake knows damn well that it's not degrading or insulting to sub, and a lot of this is just her being embarrassed about having lustful thoughts about Yang at all, but there IS that edge there of "if she knew that's how i see the world she'd never forgive me" that is... the self-obsession and fretting is in some ways a fetish, if that makes sense? like Blake's so far down the rabbit hole on this it's a fetish in the most clinical way, it's a fixation.

Prelude (1): Adam | Prelude (2) Adam Blake

... and once I got that far, it was obviously the right time in the story for me to dig the origin of that thought out at the root

this chapter is in many ways the other side of the coin from Thursday. just as it was important to me to show Blake owning her identity as a Domme with Sun, it was equally important for me to show her owning her identity as a sub with Adam. not as his victim, but as her own person. there was never a chance of this relationship being healthy because Adam's a manipulative groomer shitstain, but Blake *could* have had *a* healthy relationship as the submissive partner and truly enjoyed it, if she'd found a worthier person to crush on. that ability to trust and let go-- to surrender-- to submit, in the most basic meaning of the word-- is not something Adam forced upon her, but rather something he took from her. it was hers, and he ruined it.

I've also talked about this a lot in the author's notes and elsewhere, but it was also important to me to show that Blake chose this and wanted him. I think diminishing her agency in the development of their romance is a misread of the character that does a disservice to who she is and what she's overcome. what she has to accept here is not that she missed the signs, but that she SAW the signs and WELCOMED them. his being dangerous, edgy, and forbidden was a major part of the thrill and appeal to her; she'd gotten off on that. which: that's also a reason i could only ever explore this in an AU and not canon, because it's very different to put that on a precocious but ultimately consenting college student than a twelve-year-old but we don't have time to unpack all that

and... maybe it's very obvious to say it, but the other fetish that comes up here (and did previously in Sun's interlude) is just like Blake's fundamental awakening to the possibilities of polyamory and ethical non-monogamy. which isn't a fetish in and of itself, but is the mechanism by which every other fetish gets explored. it's a permission structure that lets Blake live her life in a way that feels natural to her without shame-- or would, if Blake were capable of not feeling shame lmao-- and that's the engine that makes everything else in this fic go.

Chapter 6: Four Questions

No real fetishes present other than Blake's fixation on Yang's bruise, which: see what I said about Proper Socialization.

Chapter 7: Body & Recovery

see above, again, more and harder (heyo). this is the first time Yang literally TELLS Blake "I like when you get toppy and particular" and Blake like... believes her but also decides this can somehow only apply to the most vanilla of instances and couldn't possibly translate into a larger dynamic because that would be Deciding For Yang somehow

also, dry humping is hot. the simulacrum of control vs the obvious and overt loss of control, the way it has an innocence to it despite being (literally, in terms of necessary cleanup) filthy... fun times. we see this come up again several times, the "I like getting messy," and that's just a thing I have about sex scenes generally that I think is deeply important. you have to want the bodily fluids around or why are we doing this.

Chapter 8: Balance

There was no way I was gonna get though a fic like this without a breathplay scene. there couldn't BE a more on-the-nose depiction of Blake's need for control-- but also, to her credit, the way she's thoughtful and responsible with the power she's given. it's a way of showing how her pathological mistrust of herself is unearned. like, people literally put their lives in her hands and homegirl doesn't even notice.

(see also, related: Blake promising Yang "I love when you say no to me" and meaning it like GIRL JUST LISTEN TO YOURSELF)

and going back to the polyamory point, it was important to me structurally to show Blake continuing to have encounters at Anesidora, and to tease out how they don't bother her or seem like cheating to her until she, as she always does, creates a mind prison about it.

Chapter 9: Power

well this one's a fun one for fetishes, eh?

this chapter is the first hint at Blake's fantasies regarding Yang's mirror, which will come up a LOT from here on out. I could (and honestly probably should) write a whole other essay about what I did with mirrors in this fic, and what their presence throughout signifies, but in terms of kink and fantasy I imagine it's pretty damn clear even here at jump: she sees Yang for exactly the woman she is and wants Yang to see it, too.

then we've got the juxtaposition of Yang In Panties and the rimming scene, and like... I don't think I'm being subtle here, you know? Yang is deeply vulnerable about her relationship with her own femininity, her desirability, her acceptability on like a basic level, and Blake... wants to devour her. Blake sees all of it, loves all of it, wants all of it. the things Yang sees as potential dealbreakers because they're shameful or subpar or ~gross, Blake just sees a goddamn sexy dreamboat. which Yang, like a hero, actually REALIZES at the end, while Blake then spirals out like a moron

this is another one where this is also just an act I don't see very often and had never attempted myself, and both were worth remedying.

Chapter 10: The Ropes

and-- see title-- the complete lack of subtlety continues.

Yang literally says this in her POV section in the next chapter, but the collar and leash was also a very deliberate and very linear, obvious choice. Yang WANTS to be bound to Blake, wants to be kept close and to have physical, tangible proof of their intimacy, and she picks the objects that tell Blake so. Collaring scenes are also A Big Deal in D/s stories and putting my (/their) spin on it-- having Blake present it to Yang to do it to herself, to put that agency in her hands-- was important to me. Blake's terrified of taking too much, of being this greedy conqueror, and Yang's trying so hard to say "you can't take what's already yours."

and of course just when Blake finally hears and accepts it, she misses that she's been so up her own ass about HER shit she hasn't at all been paying attention to the rest of Yang's or she'd have picked up the prior signs Yang dropped re: the ways her abandonment issues do and don't manifest

which brings me to the other major thing here, which is Yang's flirtation with cucking and depersonalization fetish and her own relationship to polyamory. Yang does genuinely find the idea of Blake with other people hot. and you can chalk that up to her always sublimating her needs to others, or you could see it as something she inherited FROM her parents rather than developed due to her proximity to their bullshit, or any number of other interpretations. but the way Blake's reveal to Yang goes-- with Yang wanting to be walked through the process of Anesidora and being turned on by it in this slightly-removed proxy way-- was one of the earliest things in my outline for this story. yang is stressed out about it Happening To Her and having to Do It Right in a way she isn't when she can just enjoy the idea of it as a voyeur without having to Perform.

Insterstice: Yang

So. The gag.

I have been on the record for years about my belief in this being a kink Yang would have, and I think I was fairly explicit about it in the fic itself. Yang is desperate to have her Class Clown instinct suppressed. she has gone out of her way to make herself likeable so she will not be abandoned again, and being explicitly shown that she does not need to do or say anything and will still be adored is deeply healing for her. this is why a lot of dommy or toppy takes on Yang leave me cold-- not because of the caretaker aspect, which I think she'd excel in and enjoy, but because it feeds into exactly that same charismatic (yet inherently performative) part of her that like, beats up on Junior and the show is clear FROM THE VERY OPENING TEXT is not truly who she is. it's a front she puts up.

and the thing about the mirror, which gets its first big culmination here, is that there is NO front Yang can put up. all she is faced with is her own actual reality, and the inarguable truth of it. it also plays into the voyeur thing I was talking about before, where there's this sort of pleasure at the idea of seeing Blake work and getting to see it on HERSELF, where she is simultaneously some other girl but also cannot escape the fact of "that girl is me." does that make sense? it's like the two circles finally converge into a venn diagram and then align.

Chapter 11: Play

This being its own chapter didn't exist in my original outlines. it was only when i got to this moment as I was writing linearly that I realized the audience both needed and deserved a chance to bask in the new normal before i started wrapping things up

actually rewarding everything I'd set up in terms of how they would approach Anesidora *together* seemed the obvious thing, and then going a few steps further to take it to the shibari and chastity cage place, well

*polite cough*

i have it on some authority that there is a hunger for that among my target audience

but seriously, it's all just more of what i've said. yang's desires revolve around being tethered and contained because she's had a lifetime of being gregarious and on her own. but she's also intrepid and COMPETITIVE, so blake making up rules she can WIN at stokes that fire in her to explore the unknown and also make it her bitch

and blake sees all of that, and wants desperately to indulge it

Chapter 12: Home

not really sure if the shower scene here rises to "fetish" level but to touch on it briefly

--or NOT touch, as is sort of what happens here--

i... hmm. i think in a way this is sort of my thesis statement about where blake's coming from with domination. which isn't touching, or being serviced, but is literally just talking Yang off and guiding her to her own pleasure.

Blake wants to be RESPONSIBLE for that, likes knowing she's a force for good, and the control she exerts is about learning to trust herself just as much as it is thriving at the evidence that her partners trust HER

blake obviously enjoys sex tremendously, but that's not what makes it erotic for her. her own pleasure is really the smallest part of it....

Epilogue: Surrender

... which sort of brings us full circle, to Blake's inevitable realization that her pleasure DOES matter and her desires CAN be identified and sated. even despite all she's been through; even if those desires don't seem coherent or consistent to her

the what of this, the improvised rock climbing bondage, was the very last thing to come together for this story. i knew i wanted Blake to experience full body restraint in an unconventional way, but I didn't have a solid plan on how to achieve it. which, because you asked about the fetish and not the act, I suppose is really entirely incidental

and like, as far as How I Chose To Decide Blake Wants To Be Tied Up, that did not feel like a choice at all. the excessive ribbon wrapping up the arms of her beacon-era outfit made that call for me. gambol shroud's existence AT ALL made that decision for me. Blake getting captured by Yuma and Trifa, Blake getting caught in the vines in the Ever After... you'll have to ask CRWBY about this one, not me, because that's just literally lifted wholesale from the show as Blake's obvious and inevitable Thing lmao

... and apparently this post is 3.5k so you know what i'm gonna cut it off there

THANK YOU FOR ASKING THIS WAS FUN

[billerak]

Bumble that Bee or something idk

I recently finished RWBY (catching up after years leaving it aside) and I have thoughts and feelings and, as I am me, a lot of those are about the canonical WLW couple (sans the secondary wives in V6). So I put my thoughts into a rant. It's not as negative as the word 'rant' would have you believe but I don't wanna call it an essay or whatever. It's still pretty negative tho, so be warned. Anyways on with it:

RWBY is a mess.

Sometimes, it's a wonderful mess. Others, it's a terrible one.

I could spend a few paragraphs explaining what I mean, but I think anyone who watches RWBY with a critical eye knows what I'm getting at. Love RWBY, hate RWBY, just don't try to tell me it's good.

So, once that's established, let's get to the meat of this rant: Bumblebee.

Or should I say Fumblebee? Eh? EH?

Alright you can stop reading, have a good day.

Let me start by making a sharing something about myself: I'm Agender and Bi/Pan. I make a living out of writing yuri/gl/wlw or however you wanna call it. I watch entire seasonal fucking anime on the off chance it may be yuri and most of the time I hate myself for it by the end because they never fucking deliver.

All of this is to say, I like the concept of Bumblebee, the problem is it was treated like shit.

In this rant or whatever the fuck I should call it, I'm just going to talk about the things this ship makes me feel. As established I make a living out of writing romances like the one this show tried to depict—and in case you're wondering, I have written slowburns so slow the first romantic interactions between characters didn't happen until 300k words into a fic. I did it twice, fyi—so I believe I have fair grounds to judge this.

So let's tackle this from the beginning. Was it planned from the start?

No, I don't take the writers word for it. It's painfully apparent it's not the case. I'm fairly certain BlackSun was gonna be a thing until they decided to write him out of the story in V6. Or perhaps they decided on Bumblebee and so they wrote him out of the story. Either way, everything prior to V6 I call into question.

Sure, Blake and Yang have their moments. But it's important to point out they're not romantically coded. RWBY isn't subtle about romance, and it starts pulling the same sort of obvious romantic tropes as all the het stuff going on in the show for Bumblebee going into V7. Prior to that? Nothing. Not a single blush or any explicit show of romantic attraction.

And before any disingenuous bastard tries to say something like "oh but blushes aren't always romantic" or "no you don't need blushes to show romantic attraction" allow me to say you are fucking wrong. Blushing is the universal language for embarrassment or love related things. And RWBY uses this shit all the time. INCLUDING Bumblebee past V7.

So yeah, while the writers probably did draw from previous material—and I think the VA's shipped them since the start?—I do not believe this ship was planned from the beginning.

But that's ok! I don't think it's a huge issue, really. Sure I'd have liked to see actual development but I don't need it to work retroactively if it makes sense from the moment they decide to go for it. So, 3 volumes and a half of development. Lots of time to put in the work, add the details, and-

Oh, no. Wait. They spend most of V8 separated. Hmm. K' so, 2 volumes and a half-

Wait. Oh. Oh they… they really have that little screentime together in V6, huh. Wow. Just. Huh.

Ok, the Adam fight is good. It's a strong setup! After fighting and making up for what Blake did after the Fall of Beacon, they finally come together to beat the demon that drew them apart in the first place. They hold each other close after beating him and it's good and I'm gonna say this is when they both actually fall for each other. We can argue about budding feelings or whatever, but I mean this is the moment they become aware of it one way or another.

So Volume 7 has them kinda being together? Honestly, they act like a new couple. Which is weird in retrospect. I think revealing they'd started dating after V6 would have made more sense than, uh... pretending this was a slowburn? Through V7 they stick to each other and fight in perfect synch and blush and all of that romantic stuff. It feels like… well, like they're kind of already an item but the show has other shit to worry about atm.

Then v8 is amazing really. Split the characters over an honestly kind of nonsensical ideological split, keep them apart most of the season, make Yang to be kiiind of an asshole in that one conversation with Kyle (<- my name for the post-v7 Generic McGenericus haircut Jaune. Yes this unironical, the friend I ranted to about this while watching the show can confirm).

To add insult to injury, the split doesn't even accomplish anything for the ship. The only two characters that get development out of being apart are Ren and Nora. These characters were CLEARLY in love last season why are they not having appropriate amounts of angst over this? Like, at this point we're not arguing whether they were planning on making Bumblebee canon or not, the point is asking why it feels like they weren't trying.

And then, Volume 9. For some context, I like V9. I think I'm in a minority, at least in the places I frequent about this stuff. Always comes with the caveat of 'it's still RWBY', of course, but I appreciate it. After the initial whiplash, I think making a fairy-tale season for a show that was born out of the concept of "what if Red Riding Hood had a sick scythe and used it to mow down hundreds of bad wolves" is actually a really fucking good idea.

That being said, the way they do Bumblebee is really strange.

They're basically back to their V7 selves. It feels like they're either already dating or on the verge of dating. I need to stress just how comfortable they seem to be around each other with the sole exception of that one time Blake didn't grab Yang's hand, but it didn't feel particularly awkward.

Then BOOM mind storm thing and while Ruby, Weiss and Jaune talk about like, actual issues, Jaune implies Blake and Yang had 'something more important to deal with'. And that something is RWBY's version of the room you can't leave unless you have sex.

Sans the sex I guess.

In the void, I think the scene(s?) is good. It's nice, the music is evocative, it's well framed and paced. In another story, it would really have been a perfect climax for a budding relationship.

The problem is this is not another story. These two have NOT seemed like two people awkwardly in love too scared to tell it to each other. In fact, it kinda felt like the exact opposite. If they kissed at the end of any episode for any reason, at this point, it would've felt correct. A simple quiet stare while sitting close and them just finally leaning in to take that final step would've been just as good if not better.

The bridge thing? It's the climax to an arc that didn't happen. Relationships don't need to be slowburns for me to like them, but if you're gonna pretend you were making a slowburn, at least do it right. Why did they need the bridge thing to finally get together? Come on! There was plenty of opportunity during V9 prior to this episode to at least make a show of them being awkward. Make it clear they were finally on the verge but were holding back on the final step. Make it actually cause some conflict, preferably between them as their fear grows into uncertainty and doubts.

Then the bridge would've felt cathartic. Force them to resolve said conflict, and the only way to do it is through admitting their feelings. Sure, it would've still been few episodes, but fuck man I'm sure they could've scraped a few minutes here and there to make it somewhat competent.

I like Bumblebee as a concept. I think the avid fans of this ship look at the concept, not at what the show did, and say "this is canon" and run with it. I don't blame anyone who is a big fan of this ship but… I just can't like it in its current state. I'm sure there's fanfics that fix it, I may give some a read.

Hell, just compare Bumblebee's development to Renora. Those guys have been kind of obviously in love from second one and Nora's entire character being focused on Ren was made into an actual plot point by the end.

Anyways that's about it for bumblebee. Here's some extra thoughts on shipping in RWBY in general.

If we look at the earlier seasons, I honestly think you'd have a stronger argument to make for White Rose being a couple. If we look at the later seasons, Nuts n' Dolts has a stronger impact. I already mentioned it but Blake/Sun had obviously a thing going on that didn't pan out. I hope chameleon girl whose name I don't remember gets a gf at some point tho.

I pray to fucking god they're not building up fucking Oscar and Ruby cuz they had a few awkward scenes here and there and they make me feel wrong in all sorts of ways.

Given how little interaction Ruby and Weiss have had despite how much time they've supposedly spent together, I think the writers are making an active effort to discourage White Rose. I'm not gonna get into the author's self insert being a love interest for Weiss at one point but let's just say the writers seem invested in making extra-sure Weiss stays het. I've made my peace with that. And Penny is fucking dead again so Nuts n' Dolts is a no go (canonically I mean I may read a fanfic or two about them they're very cute).

If they're gonna give Ruby a relationship by the end (which I kinda hope they don't at this point), I think it should be Kyle. They've had nice moments together and seriously shipping Oscar with Ruby just feels fucking weird. Like I assume Ozma's gonna be fucking gone from Oscar's body by the end of this story but even then idk that guy had a centuries old man is his head, it's fucked up.

Anyways that's enough. Why did you read to the end? Thanks for reading anyways.

[rwac96]

Seriously! I'm neutral to BlackSun, Bubmbleby being "Planned from the beginning"?! Straight up lies, compium of the FNDM, and honestly, it's defending pink washing.

Bumbleby is planned and confirmed to be planned.

It’s okay that blacksun wasn’t planned guys. Sun was always a fleeting crush and support character for Blake not her endgame lover

[iamafanofcartoons]

No , RWBY is neither misogynistic nor homophobic...it is every bit the opposite

Rwby not written for the male gaze. Redesigns made by critics focus on sexualizing women.  RWBY has women show much less skin than the typical fairy tail woman. Also their clothes have pockets and pouches. Rwby is not written for the patriarchy.

So Personally I've always felt like misogyny was always made by the critics. A common thread in a lot of that group's criticisms seems to come down to not liking that some of the show's villains embody male power fantasies, and that the positive male characters it has aren't the main characters, with the female characters being a harem for them.

It's a female-centered story whose true focus is its main characters' growing and supporting each other through their weaknesses and struggles, and a lot of men can't stand it.

Rewrites and AUs focus on men, on straightwashing women, on validating edgelords, on telling women that they suck. And more importantly,  rewrites are obsessed with not letting women be right about anything or important unless they're tied to a male protagonist story.

But Rwby is about giving women roles typically held by men. Women not requiring men for authority, or guidance, but instead being men's equals. Or in the case of the female antagonists? Having mental superiority over deconstructed edgelords like Adam taurus or the "ends justify the means" deconstruction of ironwood.

They have girlfails like Cinder, who you can hate, but also admire that she keeps coming back and refusing to give up.

They have badass grannies like Maria Calavera.

They have autism-coded women.

And unlike Naruto? Women can actually WIN a 1 on 1 fight against a male opponent.

Edgelord is what incels see themselves as. Incels also see themselves as victims of women. They also see themselves as tragic,  misunderstood,  or entitled to an ego.

Adam is the example of the incel: "I was hurt by society, so I am going to make it everyone's problem! I am a hero of justice, for I am giving the world the justice it deserves! I am an underdog!"

That's how incels, conservatives, otakus see themselves.

They saw Adam as a Vergil Sparda. A dude who murders countless innocent lives for the sake of power.....who believes that power is the only thing matters. He ain't morally grey, he's evil. But he's cool, and to a lot of very emotionally immature people, coolness means morally grey or anti-villain/anti-hero. Adam was introduced trying to rob a train and blow up innocent people....people accused blake of being a murderer and trying to blow up the train, then running from adam. Adam was shown in volume 2, as a cult leader neglecting the deaths of his people. As with "Burning the candle" Yang and Blake scene, RWDE and RWBY Critics disregarded that because it ruined their headcanons of what they wanted Adam to be.

How many Adam fanfics have you seen where Blake is written as the one abusing adam?

Male abusers see themselves as victims of women.

Coffeehouse Crime, Danielle Kirsty, Eleanor Neale. Look them up on Youtube. They cover multiple cases of murderers and abusers. And the details that go into emotional and mental abuse/gaslighting? They cover them all. Including how society turns a blind eye to abuse if its not physical. Which is what Adam fans do.

Btw, if you want an example of a murderer who was an IRL abuser? Just look up OJ Simpson, who got away with both thanks to his fans.

RWBY covers emotional abuse, shows the damage it can do, and shows through Blake the recovery.

Arryn has been a victim of IRL cyberbullying from blacksun fans, BobxEliza fans, and Adam fans.

To where she's had to deactivate her social media.

Art imitates life....RWBY Critics harassing voice actresses. Though thefloofartist actually sent CRWBY gore fanart of Bumbleby and tauradonna ntr fanart, that was horrific.

Roman Torchwick is an example of charismatic sociopaths being the criminal: Society was mean to me, so I'm going to be racist, steal from the elderly, and hurt kids. Sure he has charisma as a character....does that excuse racism, calling Emerald a Street Rat, trying to rob old men, and shooting teenage girls

Jacques emotional abuse and gaslighting, something many people refuse to acknowledge unless its clearly spelled out from A to Z. One Adam taurus fan on twitter made death threats to a woman trying to explain that emotional abuse is real.

Raven is a bandit. A bandit is a killer and a thief. You don't romanticize killers and thieves. One piece paints an unrealistic view of pirates. 

Ironwood and Atlas represent the American Macho mindset and the nationalism issue Americans have. Illegally occupying foreign nations with military force as a means of "peacekeeping"? Removing leaders from power who don't respect your authority or your ideas? My way or the highway? Unwilling to compromise? Willing to work with capitalist Corporations so long as your war machine is funded? The ends justify the means? Only villains say that! Merging the police with the military to have unlimited power? Putting the good ethical cop "Marrow" under pressure and mockery? Treating the poor people as acceptable losses to cut and cutting all aid and support to the 99%? Arresting or threatening good samaritans who try to help the impoverished and underprivileged because they're not recognized by your licenses? Refusing to accept checks and balances because you see yourself as above the law and being the only one with the big picture? Seeing it as your duty to police others?

People were willing to consider Ironwood a sussy baka so long as they could consider Atlas to be like Germany. But the moment CRWBY pointed out how Atlas was too much like America? The "patriots" got furious...because it was too much like looking into a mirror, and the Ironwood fangirls did not like what they saw.

Less character bloat compared to shounen anime. Shounen has thousands of character. RWBY barely has 200. But they focus more on women's characters than men, and that upsets the Cardin fans and fanfic writers. If I had a nickel for every youtube channel that decided to make the racist incompetent bully into some "gigachad", I'd have two nickels, which isn't much, but still weird that it happened twice. Meanwhile, let a man have 3-5 minutes of screentime, the critics will say that Team RWBY don't act like the main characters. Protagonist centered morality only in shounen. Team rwby do face consequences and are forced to evaluate their decisions. The women are the protagonists, and they can spend more than 10 minutes without breaking the Bechdel test. Something that, once again, adam and cardin and jaune fanfics fail within a paragraph.

"A man and a woman can spend several seasons together and be just friends at the end"

Ichigo and Rukia from Bleach, One Piece Live Action, Naruto and Sakura from that Gay Ninja Series.

Or in RWBY's case, I'm referring Blake Belladonna and Sun Wukong

Neither showed romantic attraction towards either gender for the majority of the show. Blake and Sun's arcs in V4 and V5 were about Blake learning to accept help, and Sun learning to recognize and respect people's boundaries. Neither Blake nor Sun actually made serious advances, and simply stayed good friends. Also if lesbians cannot exist without being fan service to you, that just means you're a pervert and need to touch grass.

Anyway, whomever said that RWBY Writers have no idea how to write women need to take a look at how their critics make video after video bashing women and LGBT.

Oh, and twitter calls RWBY post v3 "pandering to tumblerinas".

Given how Tumblr has no pedophiles/lolicons, less conservatives and terfs, and is very feminist? I'll take that as a compliment.

[rwby-confess]

Dragonslayer is one of the rare ships that I enjoy a lot more than whiteknight. Maybe it's because both jaune and yang are idiots and yang was a lot of the time trying to be helpful to Jaune when it came to him asking out Weiss. (Well more accurately supportive)

If it wasn't for the rule I have to keep any ship that becomes cannon in the show when I do my rewrite (outside of tauradona because haha fuck no to that, keep that concealed pedoph**ia away from ME.) and my desire to put a good foot forward towards bmblb fans from a critic and Blacksun/Dragonslayer shipper id probably make dragonslayer canon because honestly its a guilty pleasure of mine. I understand some people won't like it and that's ok, it's a crack ship and wouldn't have a chance in hell of becoming cannon even if bmblb didn't become cannon. The best thing I can do is be civil and at least be glad some shippers got their ship to become cannon... Even if I think how it became canon could have been done better. (I will still piss on Crwby's writing. And ain't no one who can change that take)

*insert cringe "no more fighting" image here*

Confession #450

Also adding this because it's kinda on the same topic (hope you don't mind)

[infoglitch]

(saw your confession on rwby confess) i think the current problem with critics and fans is that *both* sides that go to war (NOT the critics and fans who are minding their business and only occasionally engage, shoutout to them, i love you all) either made their side their whole personality and/or they're actively trying to one-up/destroy the other. you can't post anything without them NOT reading, rather already crafting a response in their mind to counter your point, even if they didn't even read what your point is. it's a really uncomfortable situation because anything you do will put you in this or either side and you cannot get the whole fan experience. i've honestly been afraid of posting knightshade not because i dislike bees (I'm rather indifferent to them) but because i'm afraid of people thinking i hate bees and that it's cheating art and the whole nine yards (saw it happen to many blacksun, dragonslayer and knightshade art). i made ONE joke and people already painted me as a critic and a hater. ONE.

also, while some critics bring very valid points and give excellent food for thought, the majority that goes into forums and twitter usually repeat the same points that have been analysed to death. like, in reality there's always something new to criticize about rwby, but no, in forums it's always the same stuff. it feels like they're fishing for praise or engagement instead of actually posting their thoughts.

anyways good luck with everything

... *Inhale*

FUCKIN YES! THANK YOU!

Finally a anonymous ask that isn't someone being a prick but also engaging with me! You have no idea how happy I am.

Outside of that. THANK YOU, you finally put into words how frustrating this community can be. Like I love this fandom but God damn does it make me wanna pull my hair out.

And it sucks even further since neither side are complete pieces of SHIT! It's just some choose to be the fuckin worst or reiterate on points that don't work! Its just utterly frustrating because I just wanna talk about Rwby and how I view this series but instead you gotta pick a fuckin side because this fandom chooses to act like fuckin toddlers!

I'd like to make a thread out of this but I wanna make it natural. But regardless. THANK YOU!

[dragynkeep]

sun "i knew you'd look better without the bow aka uplifting blake for her intrinsic insecurities due to racial abuse as another faunus" vs yang "i like you for your ears in the same volume where you were just deadass called a cat as a human that was previously racist to you :))"

i'm sorry are ya'll listening to miss arryn "i sexualize underage girl celebrities" zech on this? okay

[kitkatopinions]

Just thinking about how some Bumbleby fans insist their ship is superior to ships like Freezerburn and shouldn't be criticized because their ship is canon, and how they'll be like "Bumbleby is canon, Freezerburn never would've happened and you're delusional for thinking it."

A. It's a little like the "people say Rwby is a bad show, but it's actually popular" thing, where it's like, whether or not the ship is canon has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the ship is good or well written or non-toxic or any of that.

B. I really do think that one reason why people think "mine is canon and yours isn't" is a convincing argument, or like a hurtful thing to say to people who ship a rival ship like Freezerburn or Blacksun is because of the anti-criticism push in the fandom and the villainization of rwde. Saying you want a different ship to be canon is skating really close to saying you think the writers shouldn't have done the thing that they did, after all. And meanwhile, the anti-criticism push in the fandom has resulted in this thing where 'it's canon' is meant to be kind of a last word on things, or 'it's what the writers wanted' or 'here's what the writers want us to think' is used like they're meant to be argument ending and undebatable. Because the fandom at large's anti-rwde expectations means that the writers are always supposed to be right and that the fans are just supposed to accept and like everything that the writers do or say with a smile. Like, the most you're allowed to say without getting labeled 'rwde' and therefore an evil, bad faith horrible person is 'that change wasn't what I personally would've wanted, but it's still great.' People get harassed and sent hate for saying that the writers make mistakes or shouldn't have done something they did. So of course some bees fans think that saying "well Bumbleby is canon and the writers never would've gone with Freezerburn" is going to make people feel badly or is going to make them rethink their own shipping preferences. Of course some bees fans feel better about their ship themselves simply because they can say it's what the writers wanted, so when they see a post about how a different ship had better development they can reassure themselves by sending the person messages telling them "that ship isn't canon and my ship is canon, hahaha."

C. The way the writers talk very much so implies that they're easily swayed by fandom opinion. For example, recently they were talking about Neo and how they essentially killed her off in the end and how they viewed her as irredeemable, but one reason they gave her a more sympathetic end and had her 'bow out' was because a lot of people liked her character a lot. And that isn't a one off occurrence. The writers often talk about how the audience reacts to things and how they've tried to work through audience complaints (badly, but that's a complaint for another post.) So, I'm supposed to believe that bumbleby becoming canon had absolutely nothing at all to do with it being the most popular ship in rwby (and again, popularity doesn't equal quality) and that if Freezerburn hadn't been more popular, they wouldn't have gone with it? I don't believe that. 'Planned from the beginning' or not, the writers carry things out or change things based on the fandom already, so idk why I should exalt bumbleby as the superior ship just because they're canon. Arkos is canon too, that doesn't mean I have to like Arkos or like it more than shipping Jaune with Ren and Nora or shipping Jaune with Neptune. Renora is canon too, that doesn't mean it's inherently superior to Sugar Rush and that there's nothing to complain about in how the writers wrote Ren and Nora's relationship. XD

I ship Han with Leia in Star Wars, I've liked them since I was a kid. Imagine if I went up to perfect strangers who shipped Han with Luke and was talking to people about wishing they'd gone with Han and Luke, and I was like "haha, the ship that I like is canon and yours isn't! Luke and Han was never gonna happen, you delusional idiot!" That'd be not only asshole behavior, but it'd also be totally irrelevant to the conversation and completely meaningless to the person who clearly already knows what ship is canon.

So yeah, tl;dr version of this is: Ships that are canon aren't inherently superior to ships that aren't canon. The writers are swayed by the fandom anyway, so it could've just as easily been freezerburn if it was more popular and popular doesn't mean good. The anti-rwde, anti-criticism stuff in the fandom is one big reason why these shipping wars even continue and why some bees fans feel so superior about their ship. And it's entirely irrelevant to discussions of quality to brag about a ship's canon status.

[blakebow]

I am going to be honest If you got mad about characters not being gay or the same sex ship not bieng canon and calling it queerbaiting

YOU HAVE NO RIGHT to get mad about a same sex ship being declared canon because they feel it is bad writing and the evidence pointed to the het ship ( like with korrasami which felt like a last minute retcon or bb which reeks of direction change)

it doesnt matter that there are tons more straight ships then same sex ships it doesnt matter if its the only canon same sex ship in the show or the first same sex ship involving a main character

bad writing is bad writing throwing in a forced ship in the last minute with two people who barely interacted shouldnt be supported just because of the genders involved

in a story the writing is most important not lgbt representation/politics

you dont get to make the if it was a m/f ship you would support it accusation when you are the ones who try to use the fact that its a same sex ship

you don't get to bring up its popularity as if its a win if you dont also apply it to het ships like zutara and reylo etc

same sex ships should be just as open to criticism as het ships

there shouldnt be some free pass where you can throw away the years of build up for a ship ( if its a het ship) for the sake of making a same sex ship canon

it doesnt matter how many same sex ships are in the show it doesnt matter that korrasami is the first canon same sex ship it should not have happened because of what it does to the story and characters

korra was ooc in the last two minutes

she and asami are incompatible

they were barely friends they barely interacted with each other and korra is the mc

korra cant be korra with her.

( narrative and focus pointed to makorra eventually getting back together ( for they overcame the mutual flaws that led to the b2 breakup)

for bb it reeks of direction change they gave blacksun years of teasing mutual attraction and development while bb got nothing until v6 finale ( which they intended to be romantic in those scenes though those moments werent inherently romantic it was adam's line that makes it clear ( though I find it forced since he doesnt know them)

if bb was planned from the start they should have changed the plan due to how much buildup they gave blacksun bb would no longer fit the story

if not they threw away years of buildup for money

I often see people try to pull the but if it iwas a m/f ship you would ship it but given how they often try to pull the but there were so many het ships and a few same sex ships ( when its irrelevant bad writing is bad writing the number of same sex ships doesnt excuse forcing it in)

they are the ones who care about genders involved so the argument could be turned around on them if a same sex ship got years of buildup teasing mutual attraction but suddenly after they got separated the girl got paired with a guy she never shown romantic attraction to before

they would get pissed

I remember recently when the creator of the series said that two guys relationship isnt romantic they got pissed calling it homophobia or claiming the creator was being defensive or claiming that the creator only made one of them asexual to support that ( or they bring up that other people involved saw it as romantic to refute the argument

for bb blake and yang technically spending the school year more with each other is irrelevant

[moltensmusings]

"It's become so popular to cyberbully people in this fandom, especially if they hold any opinion outside the extremely limited and strictly enforced one-way-only 'acceptable' opinion."

This. Fucking this. I haven't experienced anon hate ir any sort of harrassment, but hearing the hate people can get boogles my mind.

You like Adam or dislike how things ended for him? You feel uncomfortable how fndm treats him? You're an abuse apologist. (because the only villains you're allowed to like are the ones WE decide you can like.)

You like Ironwood or dislike how things ended for him? You dislike how his villain arc got writen? You feel uncomfortable how fndm treats his paranoia and prosthetics? You're a terrible person who supports facism, because you dared to do some critical thinking and don't agree with the group by daring to have different opinions (how ironic)

You ship Blacksun instead of Bumbleby? You're a hompohobe, 'cause Yang and Sun are totally the same people so you should be shipping BB too. (Lets ignore how I water down Yang and Sun to 1 surface level trait and that both have different plotlines with Blake)

And now shipping FB is bad? I thought this fandom cared about f/f ships? Guess, not and only care about keeping everyone in line. For god's sake, you're telling me people got shitted on for theorizing that Qrow is Ruby's dad?? Sheez, with this pathern of behavior I can safely assume I would get accused of being a military bootlicker who supports bombing cities because I like Harriet.

For my time in this fandom I learned the only way I can enjoy RWBY, without mentally blocking out the toxic part of Fndm or getting mentally tired in the Rwde side and without getting frustrated by the canon...is to stay in my corner. No matter how friendly Rwby positive blog looks like - I'm staying in my corner. Quick look at their posts about Rwde, Ironwood etc. and I'm taking a distance.

And what sucks more, I do want to talk about RWBY with people. I want to talk without bringing up it's flaws. Once I brought up RWBY to a mutual of mine and they hadn't heard of it before, but said they would check it out.

I was happy because I would have someone to talk about RWBY, but then later I remembered about how Fndm can be, about the war with criticism they have. I would get worried them getting harrassed if they talk about the flaws. What if Fndms toxicity influences them? Maybe, I did the bad thing for mentioning RWBY to them??

I get, Fndm not wanting constant critcism in their dash. Trying to enjoy a show with many pointing out the cracks can be draining. But all this? All these rules of what to think, like and ship? This isn't ok.

I agree that RWBY haters can drive off new fans of the show. but there are times where fandoms are too responsible for this. Congrats Fndm, I'm tired.

Largely since my re-entry into the fandom I've been incredibly careful about separating positive posts from critical ones. I'll tag things as rwde/rwby critical liberally because I don't want to chance a post I make finding someone who thinks it's too negative. I tend to be more critical this days or think a lot about alterations I'd make to canon to enjoy myself more and I'm having fun doing that in my corner of the internet.

I think mainly the part that threw me was to see a harmless post get someone upset, and then a request for people to manage their internet space only caused this to worsen. Last time I posted freezerburn content (2016 I believe) it was treated as normal and not subject to controversy. It felt a bit like getting a bucket of ice water dumped on me because I wasn't ready for a completely angry response to positivity.

The fandoms response to my recent posts about this situation has been overall more positive in all honesty with a lot of support and mutual aggrevation (like this) at how many rwby fans can often live in an echo chamber where canon is law and anyone who ignores said law is out to destroy RWBY regardless of how much they might enjoy the show.

This defensive nature might stem from fans getting incredibly protective of the series because there was a point when it would get a lot of unnecessary hate in the early days for dumb things (animation and episode length when budget was clearly an issue). But even so they now begin to lump everyone enjoying the show differently together and assume the worst which is what isolates so may people.

I do appreciate all of you for being supportive though and it's unfortunate that the fandom got into a state like this, I feel like it's one of the worst versions of this type of thing in fandom that I've seen. But when we get the fans who accept people are going to have differences of opinions and handle their online space to make sure they're having fun it makes enjoying the fandom easier!

[the-path-to-redemption]

hiiii i'm here with my last anon message (❀´ ˘ `❀)

i don't think i'll finish RWBY for the time being... i'm halfway through volume 9 and my head is spinning ( ꩜ ᯅ ꩜;) this is just like An Oriental Odyssey, but from the USA!

both:

* have pretty solid writing for the first half and clear expectations, then goes crazy

* develop ok ship only to tear it apart

* main antagonist is bad because their lover died

* many plot twists without any foreshadowing/contradictory foreshadowing

* purest character dies twice and comes back from the dead

* starts as magical realism but SUDDENLY MAGIC!! WOWIES MAGIC DOES EXIST??

* love triangles

* canon ships are bad and the notion of love is twisted and abusive

* fans of the work treat you like an idiot because you don't understand the brilliance of the work

* no subtlety at all

* characters not growing and falling into the same pitfalls

i was halfway season 5 when i realized (˃̣̣̥ᯅ˂̣̣̥) i was cheated!! but i immediately thought, "well, the writers must be young too" then i checked and they were way older than me!! .·°՞(˃ ᗝ ˂)՞°·. double cheated!!

what can you expect from beginner writers... but the designs... _(:‚‹」∠)_

i guess Adam's death didn't shock me (i saw spoilers...) as much as how bad the pairings are!! when Renora started showing signs i had to take a break by reading two whole mangas before going back to it. i thought we finally had good girl/boy friendship!!（ꐦ𝅒_𝅒）what do you mean Ren raised her and they're both in love but Ren doesn't speak his feelings for some reason so Nora had to force a kiss on him?! everything was too creepy!! ‎

(ﾉಥ益ಥ）ﾉ ┻━┻ didn't we have enough with Jaune and Pyrrha?! and suddenly Blake starts slapping Sun around... Bumbleby is ok but i thought this was a sapphic show!! where are my sapphics?! (╯'□')╯︵ ┻━┻

i could rant about many things but the general vibe i got was "ah, everything feels very creepy and cruel somehow" since season 4. i don't know how to explain it... i felt like i was seeing hell for the characters besides the actual problems (•﹏•;) it might be my trauma from An Oriental Odyssey but who knows...

either way this will be my last anon message ♪(๑ᴖ◡ᴖ๑)♪ i need a break from RWBY... i want to do fanarts, but i'm still too shocked (￣◇￣;) thank you for reading my messages and accompanying me through this odyssey journey!! ⸜(｡˃ ᵕ ˂ )⸝♡₊˚⊹♡ if i come back, i'll definitely come back with a blog!! ദ്ദി ˉ͈̀꒳ˉ͈́ )✧ stay strong friend!! wishing you good health and lots of money and love!! (´▽`ʃ♡ƪ)

Hello again!! It's so nice to see you, anon! Please take your time if you're coming back with a blog, and take care!

Long Post Ahead

I have not seen An Oriental Odyssey, but I might actually check it out now just to see because I enjoy xianxia/wuxia lol. But from what you said, I will be keeping a low expectation for the series if it shares that much similarities with RWBY.

I will also say that I'm personally fine with darker topics being explored in fictional work; my only requirements are that they're portrayed with proper research and with content warnings so that I know what will be included in the narrative (Banana Fish and Scum Villain's Self Saving System are two of my favorite series, with both containing very dark topics). In the case of RWBY, dark topics such as abusive relationships and cruelty in dynamics were not only very sloppily written, the writers refuse to even acknowledge how bad it is along with the FNDM (eg. Blacksun and Renora).

There's a lack of accountability when it comes to how they portray such topics, and even expecting us to think of it as a good thing without even giving us a choice to decide that ourselves. The writers blamed their animation team for the slap when criticism of it arise, and continues to not take abuse very seriously outside of the caricature portrayal of such things with Adam.

And yes, the writers are old enough to know better. They've been writing this series for more than ten years, which should have given them enough time to grow as both creatives and people, but I've also learned that age does not always equal maturity. M*les himself has once said a racial slur against African Americans when he was 26, and called the character Tifa Lockhart from the FF7 Remake game a prostitute for the way she looks and dressed, even though everyone knows that she is the primary inspiration for Yang. With such a person on the writing team, let alone leading it, it's no wonder a lot of RWBY's morals feels extremely juvenile and lackluster.

The matter of age when it comes to creating things aren't always attached to age, it's about how dedicated the creators are to their projects, which RWBY has not been for quite a while now.

Moving onto the matters of ships and their dynamic, yes I was disappointed with Renora as well. Just a correction though, Ren didn't really raised Nora; it's more like they took care of each other when they lost their families, with Ren taking more responsibility for them while Nora supports him emotionally. However, the relationship starts to sour (for me at least) was when Nora lost her emotional maturity and intelligence to basically invalidates Ren's turmoils. Forcing him to talk when he's not having a good time, forcing a kiss on him, then proceed to blame Ren for the relationship falling apart even though he tried to be rational in a crisis. She became extremely nasty as a person that I don't want to see her near Ren anymore for his own well-being!

This isn't uncommon in RWBY... every relationship (romantic or otherwise) are very shallow and disappointing. It's even worse when it comes to LGBT+ romance, because RWBY did not start or continued as a sapphic-friendly show. Blacksun was baited for years, until the writers saw that Bumbleby brings them more traction despite having very little believable hints that these two would ever be in a relationship with each other, even if you don't look at the very problematic elements of it (again, I don't mind such ships, I just dislike how these two are heralded as "cute and good" when the foundation of their romance is so toxic and they're stripped of their other personality traits).

Sapphic ships in RWBY (or just LGBT+ representations in general) are either for marketing purposes or shoddy afterthoughts. The writers were never going to treat such representations seriously because they themselves do not treat real life LGBT+ individuals with respect. If you go into the research of how Rooster Teeth's queer employees are treated, you will find the account of Kdin Jenzen being abused, hate crimed for being trans and fired by the company without aid. You're better off watching The Owl House, or even any queer manga out there.

Thank you again for the ask and reading my ramblings haha. Whatever it is you do going forward, I hope you have fun and stay safe! If we do meet again, I look forward to seeing your art! It was fun, and I wish you an abundance of wealth and love as well! Bye bye, anon! <3