#biased towards villains

[vibescornerr]

Maybe its just me and im insane but maddie being the traitor and ‘bad guy’ felt like a real shit way to just brush off the fact cait literally cheated on her with vi 😭😭😭 im??? oh yeah guys its okay she cheated on maddie because maddie is actually bad and didnt love her so she deserved it!! Huh???? ??? Cait didn’t know anything like that when she cheated. It’s still shit. She didn’t even have the balls to tell maddie. Like it makes sense. The scene with mel implying a traitor or ambessa saying vi leaving gave her a whole in caitlyn to fill. (The whole probably making maddie rebound.)

[wisebeth]

why does the pjo series have to unnecessarily villainize goddesses (hera & athena) or show them as silly ladies (aphrodite & demeter) BUT posiedon and apollo are somehow shown as the coolest/most likeable gods, even though arguably, they're right after zeus on terms of corruption?

ares shown as the worst god after zeus and hera amuses me. last time i checked, he was the patron god of amazons and literally killed a man for attempting to rape his daughter but guess who cursed women for rejection? apollo. guess who raped women when they said no (aside from zeus)? posiedon.

[throwawayasoiafaccount]

i think most people would hate him if the showrunners decided to stick with canon

let’s not forget Bitterbridge and Tumbleton

daeron the war criminal deserved his pathetic death

[misty-moth]

Ellis’ birthday messages 🌌

Elbert:

Jude:

[brionysea]

i see the potential for a dick and jason reverse robins au. jason staying on the good kid track from his childhood and being put on a pedestal despite still having so many issues, and then pre-teen dick grayson shows up; problem child, keeps running away from juvie and foster homes because he's lusting for murder, filled with rage and plastering a feral smile on top of it all--which jason can't even comprehend because he's so fundamentally authentic with his emotions at any given moment--and above all, making jason cry with laughter because of the look on bruce's face when he sees dick on the chandelier. it's perfectly backwards. i'm obsessed

[nomsfaultau]

I was chatting w a buddy about cursed character concepts, and she posited a character who has a crush on someone they deem subhuman, judge Frollo style. Internal conflict, potential catalyst for character development both positive and negative, incredibly messed up dynamics. Unfortunately my brain has one setting (thinking about Fault) and now I present one of my more cursed (completely noncanon for the love of God) thoughts:

Webb has an (extremely unrequited) crush on scp Philza

Does it completely ruin his character? Yes. However…I can’t stop thinking about it. Evidence (with Fault spoilers of course):

Webb uses pet names for Philza (refuses to acknowledge he’s a person with an actual name)

They watch movies together (videos of Philza’s kids being abused)

Tries to get alone time with Philza (by separating him from his family)

Monologues about how much he’ll miss their relationship while amnesticized Philza blinks at him.

if you think about it the amnestics arc was basically Webb reloading on a dating sim to get the dialogue tree right. by giving Philza a lot of irreversible brain damage.

Webb lounges in his house drinking whiskey and thinking about Philza (murdering all of his friends and coworkers).

Webb is literally bisexual and ”””experimenting””” on Philza its basically canon already.

Philza, for his part, despises Webb and is waiting for the first opportunity to torture him to death. Which....oh you're consumed by vengeance? So you spend all day thinking about another man??

They're so. so clearly enemies to. enemies to lo. Okay I can't say it without choking but you know what I mean. Presumably. Look I'll be level, my publisher said I had to add romance to Fault to appeal to more demographics and I'm a struggling aroace. This is what y'all like, right? Villain x Hero? Attempted murder is homoerotic or something?

[marinerainbow]

OMG! Okay so I'm sorry for blowing up your asks but I saw this and had to share.

Imagine Wheezy sending this to Greasy (Who constantly plucks cigarettes right outta Wheezy's fingers and chucks them away cuz the smell is disgusting.) when Greasy leaves the patrol. Why did he leave?...

Maybe- he moved in with Shiny, and Wheezy is sending this equally because he misses the bastard (Smartass is cookin all their meals now- of course Greasy is missed. not at all because he's loved, anyway *cough*. no of course its not that) and because he thought it might tick the pervert off and Wheezy was bored XD

Maybe- the toon Patrol b r o k e u p and Wheezy decides to reach out to Greasy after a while. He doesn't know where the hell Psycho ended up, he doesn't wanna lead Stupid on to think he actually wants to get the group back together or be friendly again (He's still... deciding), and Smartass would be just too big of a pain. So... *shrug* Greasy.

Maybe- he got fed up with the group not appreciating him and strikes out on his own (You'll miss all this, mark my words! You heathens'll be living in squalor no time! *door slam*). Everyone is sure he'll be back after a couple days but its been a week and Wheezy's developing some doubts.

(I know they didn't have texting back then 😅 Imagine this in phone call form XD)

It's ok! Sorry it's taking me a while to get to the asks. Though i promise they'll be answered as soon as possible! ^^

Also, this? This is canon in the Griny timeline now XD

But noooo I don't want them all to break up. They're a family! 🥺🥺🥺 they're all lunatics, what was the breaking point??? Where did they all go? ESPECIALLY Psycho. I'm very concerned about his whereabouts for various reasons-

Wicked you can't do this to my heart! 😭😭

[eat-a-dicker]

sorta funny and telling how helluva boss fans really want a woman they can latch onto so bad that all you do when it comes to complicated depictions of divorce and abuse is cry about how there's nothing about the abuser that's interesting or sympathetic to latch onto all because she's a big breasted titty woman and sexism is super real

[airanke]

Idk which one is best 🫠

[bloomeng]

as a person who has a sorta complicated relationship with my step parents i want to know so badly how kaveh feels about his step dad

[eats-the-stars]

my 4yo nephew is honestly such a character. love kids at this age. right now he has three favorite things. Cars. Dinosaurs...and Zombies. heard from school today that he has a select group of friends who he plays Zombies with. By which they mean that he pretends to be a zombie, and they all happily scramble to hide under a table and clutch each other and scream. He does this every day. Honestly do think this kid is going to keep his horror interest possibly long-term because he also loves to play lots of "hide/run from the zombies/ghosts" games at home. Including turning off the lights and having the both of us hide in a blanket fort huddled together while he insists that we both fake cry in fear. Most other kids he interacts with at this age are firmly in the "afraid of the dark" stage, and can only play the lights off version, or include the "pretend to bite your friend and now they are also a zombie" bit in very small doses. He has a night light in his room, but regularly chooses to sleep on the couch in the pitch black living room instead. To be fair, I had very little fear of the dark as a little kid, so maybe that part just runs in the family.

[transmascvash]

"uuuuuugg why do so many stories say revenge is bad and focus on forgiveness why does the protagonist try to be the better person and not just kill the villain when they OBVIOUSLY should" well I don't know about you but i like to read stories about nice people who try to be nice

[fabuloustrash05]

Some Fun Facts According to Sparking Zero’s Encyclopedia (aka Girl Talk)

Chichi still thinks ALL Super Saiyans are delinquents (and yes that includes Frieza’s golden form) meanwhile Bulma defends the Super Saiyan forms.

Chichi considers Krillin to be just as tough as a Saiyan because of all that he’s been through.

Bulma LOVES Vegeta’s red hair when he turns into a SSJ God.

Videl wonders if she and Future Gohan ever crossed paths in the future timeline. She also wishes she was there to fight by his side when he faced the androids.

Chichi thinks SSJ3 Goku and SSJ4 Gogeta are scary looking.

The girls all agreed that Krillin hit the jackpot with Android 18.

According to Videl, Vegeta is a good cook.

Chichi still hasn’t forgiven Piccolo for kidnapping Gohan, but looks past it cause Gohan looks up to Piccolo.

Bulma thinks Piccolo’s fusion with Nail and Kami is unimpressive compared to the other fusions she’s seen.

Bulma has a biased towards SSJ Blue, cause well, blue hair lol

Videl believes Goku and Bulma were positive influences on Vegeta (she’s right).

The girls don’t like Paragus for what he did to Broly (Super).

Bulma thinks SSJ4 Vegeta is “cool looking” and “wild”.

Videl thinks Baby Vegeta is scary.

The girls don’t understand the purpose behind Frieza stretched out head in his 3rd form. They think he looks gross.

Bulma defends Vegeta as a father and husband, saying he’s a good dad to their kids.

Videl hopes that Yamcha will find love someday.

The girls think Garlic Jr is Pilaf

Bulma is glad Trunks doesn’t have a tail, fearful of what would happen to the house if her husband and kids could transform into a giant apes.

Bulma mistook Recoome for Android 16.

Videl is shocked to learn Piccolo was once a villain.

Videl wants a “foodie buddy” like Whis is to Bulma.

Bulma confirms she’s the breadwinner of her family while Vegeta is the protector.

The girls wonder and are envious that Android 18 will most likely stay young and beautiful forever.

Bulma wonders why Zamasu didn’t steal Vegeta’s body instead of Goku’s.

Videl did not know that Bulma and Yamcha used to date.

The girls criticized Baby Vegeta for constantly changing forms so quickly XD

Chichi respects Bulma for slapping Beerus across the face.

Chichi hopes to one day meet Bardock in Otherworld and thank him for bringing Goku to her

[raayllum]

I get that in general a lot of kids shows do utilize the protagonists ('good guys') in ways where they're supposed to be role models, particularly because some do have a "lesson of the week" where the character does bad things, then clearly learns and explains what they should've done instead by the end of the episode.

That has just... never been how TDP has operated, and I don't get how and why people think we're supposed to take what anyone does in the show as being unilaterally good or evil. Particularly in arc 2; any moral simplicity that was hanging on by a thread in arc 1 has been taken out back and shot numerous times by now.

TDP very rarely calls anything Evil or Good, and when it does, it's always filtered through the characters' biases, and rarely does more then 2-3 characters ever have the same opinion on something for the same reasons. Soren and Rayla, who have inverted character arcs, are some of the only characters to ever use the term villain / good guys or bad guys, and are two of the most staunchly black-and-white thinking characters, heavily to their detriment, I might add, in terms of coping with the increasing complexity of their lives. They have cognitive biases. They're not always right, and are frequently wrong. This is true for everyone in the show.

The show refuses to condemn murder, indirectly and directly condemns the expulsion of humans from Xadia routinely (Evrkynd being a city for everyone, Ezran arguing with Karim, who is the most wrong about the most things), and shows a variety of viewpoints on all things.

The show understands that the choices people make—whether the same character trait is a flaw or a strength—as well as 'moral' choices are all circumstantial.

Are you wrong to burn people alive? Mostly yes (2x07, 6x08) but also no (3x09). Are you wrong to kill people? Sometimes yes, sometimes no, sometimes whether it's 'wrong' or 'right' doesn't even factor in. Are you wrong to use dark magic, or use the dangerous Staff of Ziard, or coin someone and condemn them to a 'fate worse than death'? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Is lying or hiding the truth to protect someone wrong? Sometimes yes (1x06, 2x03, 3x03, 5x01, 7x04, 7x06) sometimes no (1x02, 2x03, 6x06, 5x08, 7x08).

Are you doing the right thing?

Do you have no choice? Is that true, or is that just what you think, or how you rationalize it yourself?

When is it right or cowardly to leave (Viren, Lissa, Rayla, Callum, Ezran, the Cosmic Council, the offer made to Karim's troops)? When should you stay? When do you decide to share resources (2x05) to your potential detriment or withhold them in the name of protecting yourself and your own people (Xadia and magic)? At what point(s) do you prioritize your own pain and grief, or someone else's (i.e. the Keeper vs Callum vs Ezran)? At what point is someone too dangerous or 'too far gone' to keep alive (Runaan about Harrow, Ezran about Aaravos)? At what point do you decide someone cannot change? When do you refuse to change (Karim, Terry) who you are no matter what happens, and when do you decide that you must (Ezran, Soren)? When is it wrong to use illusions to trick someone (3x09 and 7x06) and when is it more reasonable (2x03)? When should you be willing to sacrifice others (Rayla with her family, Runaan and Rayla with Callum, Soren with Viren) and when should you refuse? When should you sacrifice yourself, and when it is wrong to? Did you betray them, or did they betray you, or both (usually both)? When should you betray or stay loyal to your family? What is the right thing to do?

The show, tbh, doesn't know, at least 90% of the time. It's not interested in knowing. It's interested in exploring. That's the whole point. At most, it says you should work towards harm reduction, but what constitutes harm, and what peace looks like, is also something that greatly differs for all the characters.

Rayla is willing to sacrifice the love of her life, Ezran is willing to create weapons of mass destruction and wield one, and Callum used a torture spell on someone when he absolutely did not have to. The idea that any of the protagonists are meant to be paragons of unblemished virtue who are always 100% right, or that any of the antagonists do not canonically have a good point of contention with anything that's happened and are always 100% wrong, is reductive to everything the show is and explores, because it is Quite Literally not what the show does, ever tbh.

They literally spelled it out this past season as a core theme; I don't think they needed to have a character directly point it out every time a main character did something that was Kinda Fucked Up or Complicated But Understandable to know that the show knows it was Canonically Fucked Up or Complicated But Understandable.

There is not a single character or action in TDP that is always right, and there is not a singular character or action in TDP that is always wrong. Hell, even narrowing it down to "this is 'right' or 'wrong'" feels counterintuitive because it's so subjective within the narrative.

Every choice the characters make is often well reasoned, aligns with their values and world views, and fits into how they work through problems. Every choice has benefits and consequences, for them or for others. That doesn't mean it's Right for everyone involved. That doesn't mean it's Wrong for everyone involved. That's what makes the show interesting. Everything has nuance. Everything has Complexity. I'm not interested in a simplified version of TDP. I'm interested in the show as is.

I hope you are, too.

[skullmoss]

here's the thing like. as a loghain Liker i 100% understand why many think loghain deserves to die for all the awful shit he did. completely understand it. i personally like making loghain a warden bc the warden order takes in the worst of the worst as cannon fodder against the blight and that is Interesting to me, but if you think loghain deserves death because he worked with slavers and fucked over the city elves in the denerim alienage then yes!!!! good!! kill that fucker!!!!

but then you shouldn't turn around and make a pouty face about solas. /taps nose/ something tells me you don't think his war crimes are Bad because his victims were titans, dwarves, and spirits he lied to.

im just going to be a certified dragon age (ancient) elf hater

me, zevran, sera & my DA protags (except hawke bc theyre dead and human and idc about hawke lmao) are going to roll up and rip solas's egghead right off his shoulders and punt him down into the depths along with all the other ancient elven gods i just hate solas the most bc he thinks he's Better Than Other Ancient Elves like no buddy ur the guy who made the genocide weapon ur the first on my chopping block

[alicentral]

This is a response to a hotd critical post about the "favouritism towards Greens in screen time ratio", and I think it's so interesting how team black also feel like they're being fucked over by the showrunners when, to me, it's blindingly obvious that it's the other way round.

Not only are the show runners villainising the greens, not the blacks, they've also gone out of their way to make the blacks seem like the badass heroes who can do no wrong, and this is the root of the problem for both team black and team green. It oversimplifies the dance and goes against the themes and message of the whole book, rendering the characters either inconsistent, one-dimensional, and worst of all, flat and boring.

Lets start off with the greens. The argument that the showrunners are "gagging on the greens" doesn't hold up when we actually think about it for more than 2 seconds.

With the source material of hotd being a fictional history book with different biases and perspectives (emphasis on different perspectives), the showrunners have cherry picked what to adapt, and have chosen to take the worst of the greens as the objective truth and erase their good moments as "green propaganda". The main example that comes to mind is aegon. Plenty of other people have talked about this in depth before, but in f&b, aegon raping a girl was a rumour spread by mushroom, a narrator with a clear black bias who wasn't even in kings landing at the time. There was no reason in adapting this rumour other than to demonise aegon, and by extension, team green. The way the scene is framed, it is clear that it was never about dyana, how the rape affected her mentally, emotionally, socially, physically. For a supposedly feminist show, dyana's rape was a throwaway scene, it never had any impact on the story further. So what was the point of the scene other than to tell the audience "look at what a monster aegon is. How can you support someone like that?" And it works.

You can see on social media, any time there's something vaguely positive about the greens, you have hoards of people comment "yeah but he's a rapist" "how can you support a rapist?", etc. It forces you to side with team black. Later in the show, the audience gets to know that aegon's dick burst "like a sausage". Why would the audience need to know this? Aegon's mutilated dick is presented as "karma" for dyana and is only meant to humiliate him. And again, after this revelation, so many people on social media were making fun of his "burnt sausage". They've made a laughingstock of aegon, and as the figurehead of team green, it's clear that we're not meant to side with team green.

Furthermore, in bastardising, and sometimes, even completely erasing the relationships between team green, the showrunners have dehumanised them and made them irredeemable villains, because, again, we were never meant to side with those who "usurped the rightful queen".

The loyalty and commitment the greens had to one another made them such compelling characters and heavily shaped their central motivations and actions. Aegon only took the crown to protect his family. Aemond, after rooks rest, never called himself a king, only lord protecter even though he knows he would've made a better king than aegon. Daeron torched the riverlands to get to his mother and sister and sacked bitterbridge as revenge for his nephew. Helaena offered up her life for her son, and chose to sacrifice maelor because she knew he wouldn't understand what was happening. Their actions may not be necessarily good (and in daeron's case, actually happen to be war crimes), and their motivations may be morally grey, but they're understandable, they're sympathetic, seeing as it was out of love and loyalty, something that 21st century society can relate to. Without these complex and compelling ties, the audience is left asking why would the greens stick together if they all seemingly can't stand each other? Why fight for aegon if he doesn't even seem to care for them? What was the point in having the crown then? As a result, the characterisations feel one-dimensional (helaena being reduced to being just an "innocent" amidst her bloodthirsty family) or inconsistent (alicent. just her entire story arc. it could've been interesting if done right, but alas, no such luck), or rushed (suddenly aemond wants to be king in his own right after defending his brother's claim at storms end).

This isn't to say that team green are perfect, far from it, but the close emotional ties and relationships could've been used to elevate the internal conflicts in the show. We could've had complex characters who aren't necessarily good, but they're family and they stick together despite their personal grievances.

And this isn't even mentioning their bonds with their dragons. Where was vhagar roaring when aemond's eye was cut out? Aegon and sunfyre had the closest bond between dragon and human and that was given to rhaenyra in the show and where is dreamfyre?

One last thing on the greens, they are presented as incompetent and not equipped to rule, which is meant to show how it would be oh so much better if rhaenyra was on the throne. Criston parading meleys' head is framed as stupid as meleys was "a beloved dragon", ignoring the fact that she murdered hundreds of smallfolk at the coronation. Alicent is presented as stupid for thinking that after rooks rest, the small council would appoint her the queen, aegon in the small council was meant to be laughed at. Of course, this begs the question, if the greens were meant to be a mess of a faction with only 3 functioning dragons and now 2 effective dragon riders, how did they hold out against the blacks for so long? It's clear that the showrunners haven't thought this through.

So yeah, i don't really understand what this person was trying to say when they say that the showrunners are "gagging on the greens" when they are demonised, humiliated and stripped of compassion. I would like to say here, nothing i've said about the greens here is new to team green fans, and so many more people have gone into more depth about this.

Lets move onto the blacks. In a conflict where no side was meant to be in the right (who has the right to rule is a beast for another day), where there were no winners, only losers, where a dynastic dispute almost tore down the entire aforementioned dynasty, the blacks are framed as the heroes, the side the audience should root for. If they come off as villainised to the audience, i don't think it was done on purpose.

Opposite to the greens, they're mistakes and flaws are glossed over. I think this is the main reason why team black falls flat as opposed to lack of screen time, which i don't really want to count.

An important example of this is blood and cheese. In f&b, blood and cheese was a horrific event which drove queen helaena mad and, importantly, was meant to murder one of aegon and helaena's sons in revenge for lucerys. A son for a son. It was always meant to be jaehaerys. By making blood and cheese all one big mistake in the show, with aemond as the real target and oops, we can't find him so jaehaerys will do, team black and rhaenyra can't be held accountable for the murder of an innocent 6 year old boy. Moreover, the fact that rhaenyra never knew or sanctioned the murder, and it was all daemon going rogue, rhaenyra is even further removed from the horrific murder of a child, because, of course, our heroine can't be responsible for anything bad, she's meant to be the one in the right!

Furthermore, condal and hess try to force the smallfolk's love of rhaenyra during the dance, contrary to the book, which serves to uphold rhaenyra's right to the throne and show how team black are the right side. During the blockade on kings landing, the smallfolk conveniently forget that she's the one causing the blockade when she sends food through (showing that she could've done that at any time). The cheering for rhaenyra and the riot makes no sense, as again, she was the one who caused the blockade in the first place.

The introduction of the prophecy also is only meant to justify any "wrong" rhaenyra and team black do. The death of the dragonseeds and the smallfolk were all in the name of a prophecy so it's ok. And this is the thing which infuriates me the most, because the prophecy could've been a fascinating aspect of team black's motivations if framed right. The idea of committing atrocities in the name of a believed divine, higher purpose could've been used to expand upon team black's character growth and internal conflict vis a vis the knights templar and the crusades. How do they feel about this? Are they even aware of what they're doing? Alas, the show itself buys into the prophecy, buys into the divine purpose and suddenly, the atrocities aren't presented as "that bad" anyways. All of that to say, the show has never intentionally villainised team black.

So we've established that as the heroes, team black can't do anything wrong, and if they do, it's for a higher purpose, so it's alright. Team black's "emotions and conflicts are made secondary" not to "disposable filler scenes of Greens", but to themselves, or rather, to rhaenyra and her right to rule. So many team black scenes were used to uplift rhaenyra to show how she is the rightful queen. The main two examples of this that stick out to me is baela rebuking jace when he rightfully questions rhaenyra's decisions and daemon's whole harrenhal arc, which serves as his redemption and so he can reaffirm his commitment to rhaenyra's right to rule. Of course it's going to be "a bore" if the main characters, the ones we're meant to be cheering haven't got anything going for them except for cheering on rhaenyra.

There's no character interaction, no character growth, no real internal conflict because from the beginning, team black has been presented as in the right and can do no wrong, so there's no room to grow, no room to develop, not because of lack of screen time. When character development almost breaks through (see: jace questioning rhaenyra), it's quickly quashed, because the audience needs to be reminded that rhaenyra is always right. There's a clear good and bad side that the show is trying to force, which doesn't work in this setting because it reinforces the idea of the divine right of kings, the idea that one person, one family is superior to all others, and that person is rhaenyra here. It undermines the idea that no one was in the right for the atrocities they committed. No one can be justified and that fundamentally, these are not good people, they're interesting characters (or could've been interesting characters), but they're not good people.

So why? Why are the blacks presented as the good side and the greens presented as evil? It all comes down to the fact that the showrunners have propagated the idea that the dance is about a woman's struggle to rule in the face of misogyny, rather than the decline of house targaryen due to their belief in targaryen exceptionalism or the consequences of the pursuit of power. Sure, feminism and misogyny is one aspect of the dance, but it's not a major driving factor. The showrunners have backed themselves into a corner here, because they trying to portray the dance through a modern feminist lens, and so they believe that they can't write women being flawed or evil, and so we get the free, liberated good side and the "misogynistic", conservative bad side.

So in conclusion, it is clear that the showrunners aren't villainising the blacks as this person believes, but the greens. In doing this, they've made a clear cut good and bad side which works to the detriment of both team black and team green. It leads team green's characterisation to be inconsistent and one-dimensional and it chokes team black from having character growth.

Listen, i don't know if team black truly have less screen time than team green, but if they do, it's not the reason why team black falls flat.