#anti daeron the daring

[rynnthefangirl]

I think Team Green would actually just combust if Team Black didn’t have Daemon. He is their argument for everything, the remarkably convenient scapegoat and fallacy-ridden redirect for any argument.

Someone points out how evil your favorite is? “BUT BUT BUT BUT DAEMON🤬🤬🤬🤬”.

Oh, nobody mentioned him? Like at all? Doesn’t matter! I said you stan a p*do and that makes it true and also somehow makes Aegon, Aemond, Daeron, and Alicent innocent of all wrongdoing!

Faced with any sort of accountability for your faves choices? Just say Daemon is 100% an evil uncontrollable dog who would murder every character if they didn’t start a war! He’d murder Aegon! He’d murder Jace! He’d murder Rhaenyra! He’d murder Alicent and Helaena and Jaehaera! All unprovoked! He’ll blow up Westeros for no cause! Guaranteed, 100%, undeniable!

Evidence? It’s Daemon! What other evidence is needed?

Nobody loves Daemon like a TG stan💕 what would y’all ever do without him?

[throwawayasoiafaccount]

i think most people would hate him if the showrunners decided to stick with canon

let’s not forget Bitterbridge and Tumbleton

daeron the war criminal deserved his pathetic death

[kataraavatara]

something something the fandom’s outrage over jaehaera being threatened with rape vs the silence on little girls in tumbleton actually being raped something classism

[drakaripykiros130ac]

Can you imagine the nerve Aegon the Usurper had when he asked for statues to be built in “honor” of his fallen brothers, Aemond and Daeron?

The same Aemond and Daeron who committed the most and worst war crimes throughout the Dance?

I can’t imagine that the people of the entire Realm were too happy to hear that. The Greens are the ones who brought them the most suffering.

And while we’re on the subject, why not commission a statue for Helaena as well? Is it the common Greenish sexism we are well used to or just another indication that Aegon didn’t give a damn about her? After all, he didn’t mourn her, and was very excited to marry Cassandra Baratheon and produce new heirs.

In fact, even though he seemed so “distraught” because of Sunfyre’s death, he was rather quick to replace him as well. He brought all the eggs from Dragonstone (Syrax’s eggs, by the way) and claimed he wanted to hatch a dragon that would be even better than Sunfyre (in contrast to his own father, Viserys, who actually suffered and refused to claim another dragon after Balerion died).

This guy is such a jerk, to say the least.

Luckily, the Gods don’t grant him any favors as he never marries Cassandra Baratheon, never produces anymore children, never gets another dragon, and best of all…once the Black armies seize the Capital and Rhaenyra’s son ascends the throne, the construction of those statues is stopped (another clear indication of the Greens’ defeat).

[thewingedwolf]

okay tbh part of why i’m a daeron the daring hater is bc i just don’t get the appeal of him, like he is just as much of a war crimey flop as every other character in that entire era, and he doesn’t even have a weird psychosexual relationship with a milf to make me interested in him so what is his POINT exactly

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

This reminds me of an argument I had with someone over Daeron. This man wholeheartedly believed that Daeron was some kind of military mastermind that GRRM "nerfed" so the Blacks could win.

Tg stans come up with the wildest takes, especially when it comes to Alicent's sons. This dude also fully embraced the idea that Daeron was basically a saint that everyone clings to.

Yeah, Daeron was petty, kind of stupid, and was unable to actually handle the military aspect of his role in the war. He committed atrocities just like his brothers and died a dishonorable death like them.

“You shall receive the same terms you gave my nephew Maelor.” This line makes no sense. Lady Caswell didn’t give Maelor any terms because she didn’t know he was there. If she had known she would have ensured the boy was well cared for until he could be returned to King’s Landing. And what the actual fuck does Lady Caswell’s surrender have to do with the town ?

Daeron is a fucking idiot. The little despot blamed her for something she had absolutely no control over. Not only that, she actually had already killed the main perpetrators (that she could find) of Maelor's murder. There was absolutely no need to sack Bitterbridge, it was purely done put of bloodlust.

“No castle can be held against a dragon” still haunts me. Lady Caswell watched her people be slaughtered, burned alive, and drowned even after doing everything right and offering her own life. Begging for her children’s lives with a noose already around her neck…

The fact that people sing Daeron’s praises shows they don’t understand that literally everything positive said about him is said in comparison to his brothers… the rapist and the terrorist. The bar was in hell and Daeron barely reached it.

Daeron's trying to say that Lady Caswell as cruel to Maelor and showed him no mercy when she supposedly "caused" and even (implicitly) intended for Maelor to die. And no, it doesn't make sense.

Personally, I think it was just Daeron looking for another "win", to get rid of another of Rhaenyra's possible allies or means of succor in terms of supplies, take those supplies for himself and the Hightower armies, and/or to show the "might" of the greens and make an example out of the Lady Caswell and the refugees, or to get rid of people who'd need those supplies so he can get those exclusively for the armies he had. Possibly he even was encouraged to do so from his uncle, but he was ultimately the one to spew the first flame.

Yes, Lady Caswell did what she could and was expected to do. Operative word is "expected"; as a noble woman in charge of the area and with protecting the household in her husband's absense/nonexistence, she couldn't withstand against the open maw of a determined prince eager to practice and outdo other warriors.

[kass-of-the-midlands]

Remember what they took from us

[thesunfyre4446]

repeat after me : marrying jace to helaena solves nothing because alicent's sons are still a threat.

helaena never posed a threat to rhaenyra's claim. it was her brothers. a marriage between helaena and jace only benefit rhaenyra and jace - helaena basically becomes a hostage to be used against her mother, and she boosts jace's legitimacy.

aegon aemond and daeron still remain a threat, with their sister held hostage.

[coffeebooksrain18]

Something hilarious to me is when TBs say shit like "if Daeron has Alicents hair then we know he's a bastard and TGs will be crying!" As their the ones who keep saying "but what if Aemma had brown hair or what if the Baratheon black hair mixed with the white made it brown!?" Or, or this one that only shows what hypocrites they are "but what about the Starks? Most of Ned,s kids looked like their mom! They had red hair like Catelyn!" So now they show again that their arguments only work if it's for their favorites.

Here's the fact, if Daeron has Alicents hair color and eyes, he's still Viserys son he only got his mom's looks! The strong boys don't look like either parents, which is why Daeron wouldn't have had the rumors following him.

[bietrofastimoff23]

the fact that Alicent cares about viserys' disgusting ass more than her own children is really a crazy change, especially after THIS night.

i mean, the new canon tells us that the reason Alicent wanted to seize the throne was not out of fear for the lives of her children, but because VISERYS supposedly wanted it that way. and when it turned out that this was not the case, she easily turned her back on them all and almost was ready to bring Aegon's head to Rhaenyra on a platter.

((look, Otto didn't love his grandchildren, but he would NEVER do that to them, not even to Aegon, whom he can barely stand.))

viserys absolutely dgaf about THEIR - his and Alicent's - family. he didn't care about her feelings, her dignity, her desires. he called her by a wrong name, took away her girlhood, in order to have sons whom he did not love. he never gave her anything in return, only took away. but she shows more respect and LOVE for his ghost than for her own living sons, who are ready to give their all for the sake of a grain of such an attitude towards themselves.

now it looks as if she used her children while they were convenient for her: Aegon, being burned, can no longer guarantee her power - puts him under the enemy's sword, Aemond, who has been her support for years, began to cause problems - does not even remember him. only Helaena is left, and I'm inclined to believe that if she "shows her teeth" too, all of Alicent's tenderness towards her will fade. (daeron, RUUUN-). she hardly perceives them as persons, but this is a separate conversation.

"she wanted to torture one of my sons after her bastards took away his eye with impunity and will want to cut off the head of another my son for the throne, but she will be a good queen with whom I will want to escape into the forest" boys, that was THE moment when you should have run away from here.

she condemns them for the fear and hatred that she has nurtured in them for years. she's really terrible at this show.

tbh, I don't see any redemption for her. but also I don't hope that in this show she will face real consequences, and not senseless humiliation bc... just watch s2.

[theflorasdiary]

Rhaenyra calling Daeron “the third brother” just like that as if he isn’t also her brother,her daddy son and doesn’t share the same Valyrian blood as her.

But then again people crucify Alicent because she called Jaehaerys “the child” in a moment of pure shock.

[rynnthefangirl]

Targ antis that are also team green stans be like:

“I HATE the Targaryens, they are nothing but evil colonizers using their lizard nukes to rain fire on innocents, they are ALL irredeemable and ALL deserve to all die for the sins of their ancestors”

“The exceptions of course are War Criminal #1, War Criminal #2, and War Criminal #3, whose pure noble Hightower blood washes out of the evil bad Targ blood and makes all the mass murder and tyranny they committed actually not their fault.”

[ophelieverse]

The way I was trying to catch a glimpse of Daeron on Tessarion to see if those mother fuckers really gave him dark hair:

[sunfyrisms]

i think about viserys and i get so viscerally angry every time. this man impregnated his wife time and time again—since she was a mere child—and it killed her. this man married a child, his daughter’s closest friend, because she… was decent to him during his time of mourning? this was a man who proceeded to impregnate his wife multiple times, and completely neglect their children because of the grieve he felt over killing his first wife. this man, instead of even offering basic compassion and empathy to his son after the boy just lost an eye, instead yelled and demanded to know who called his grandsons bastards. this man, after everything he put his second wife and their children through with his negligence, called rhaenyra his only child. this man is absolutely looking up at us right now, fuck him i’m so serious right now.

[drakaripykiros130ac]

“Daeron is a good boy” - certain people write of Alicent’s spawn.

Tell that to all the innocent people of Bitterbridge, who were burned alive by him.

[the-loststone]

HotD Team Green Defense

The amount of people who fail to grasp Team Green's perspective is honestly staggering to me. So many people are Team Black, maybe out of some (misplaced) belief that they are being feminists and advocating for female power, or something like that, and choose to ignore the very legitimate worries and motivations of Team Green. Admittedly, the show has gone out of it's way to villainize Team Green as much as possible, while victimizing Team Black, and deviating from the source material for this narrative. (I would tell them to be suspicious when showrunners do that because they did the same thing to Daenerys in GoT and everyone was surprised when she turned around and burned a city down in a rushed ending because the show never properly developed her arc.) Nevertheless, despite their efforts to make Team Green the less appealing side, if I had to compare motivations, Team Black is the more villainous.

So many people dismiss the fact that for Rhaenyra to secure her throne, she would have to kill her siblings. They write it off as paranoia of Alicent, or ambitions of her and Otto, that they are making excuses for Aegon to be made king instead of Rhaenyra. But that's just not true. These are very real likelihoods. Even if Aegon did not seek the throne, or he and his brothers decided to gracefully allow the succession to pass to Rhaenyra, it would never be peaceful. Just look at Rhaenys and how Corlys is still bitter and Viserys has been worried that they may come after him since she has a right to the throne. That's one of the main benefits in having Rhaenyra marry Ser Laenor was to join their claims. Or look at how worried everyone was of Daemon, and how he may seize power after Viserys. The only thing keeping him alive was his brother's love for him, the fact that their house was dwindling, and no one was fighting on his behalf over Viserys. So if there is every another claimant, it would be a great worry that the side in power may be kicked off by another claimant. And Aegon and his brothers are men, and just by virtue of having dicks, they have a better claim to the throne. All laws, precedent, and cultures in Westeros have male heirs before female heirs. The king's word does not change that. And note that the King only made Rhaenyra his heir over his brother. So technically, the King said "all my children first, including my daughter, then my brother." (Something already controversial because if it was accepted before, Rhaenys would be Queen and he would be nothing). But he never again made a statement for the lords after his sons births. He never reinforced Rhaenyra's succession as his heir outside the privacy of their own quarters. Alicent even said, let the lords come and decide, and make vows, and he and Rhaenyra reject it because they worried the Lords would choose Aegon.

Rhaenyra knows, to inherit without rebellions every few years from lords who are unhappy with her and want to supplant her with her brothers, she would have to kill her brothers and make sure there are no people who can contest her right to inherit.

And this is just Rhaenyra's succession. Now add in the fact that she's claiming illegitimate children as her heirs. Very obvious illegitimate children. Even if Rhaenyra managed to successfully inherit with no push back from anyone, and no one wanted to supplant her with her brothers so she didn't have to kill them then... well guess what, she'll have to kill them to secure her son's ascension to the throne. (And if she won't then Daemon certainly would). And then, even if she does kill all the Greens, then there's the issue of her legitimate children vs. her illegitimate children. Even if the kids grew up to love each other, someone may say, well the first three shouldn't inherit, let's put the legitimate ones on the throne. And then you have a completely different succession crisis.

Viserys' actions may seem to the viewers as promoting girl power and feminism, but that's not what's happening. He's being an abusive, neglectful shit. He's deliberately putting the rest of his children's lives in jeopardy, and even the Strong grandchildren he claims to love, because by keeping them in the succession despite their obvious illegitimacy invites people to contest that. And that's not to say he couldn't have taken steps to remedy this. He could have changed the rules so that succession passes to the eldest child, regardless of gender. But he didn't. He could have acknowledged that his grandchildren were illegitimate and forgiven it and legitimized them as Targaryens, but he didn't (conveniently usurping Valeryons - and people may argue that Baela/ Rhaena can still rule being married to Jace/Luke, but that's not the same as being able to rule in your own right, otherwise, why not take the offer for Rhaenyra to marry Aegon).

But since he didn't do any of these things, the only way to stop the Dance would have been for him to make Aegon his successor. Something that everyone would have been relieved by because it would have prevented war. But he didn't. And so, Alicent has to fight to keep her kids alive. The Greens have to push their claim to survive. Whereas, had Rhaenyra graciously backed off her claim, saying that yes, she had 3 brothers, and while they were younger, the laws and precedent are in their corner to inherit, then she would have lived. People wouldn't have fought for her claim if she hadn't pushed it. Nor would they fight for an illegitimate heir.

But some may say... Well Rhaenyra has more supporters. She does. She has the Velaryons and countless other houses backing her. So do the Greens. (the Greens have the wealthiest houses). But once it becomes a fight to throne, it's less about who has the right, and more about who can offer you the most. Notice the Starks and the Baratheons agree to fight because they'll get a wedding out of it (and the Starks because they'll have somewhere to send people during their current famine). The Vale because of the blood ties. The Lannisters because of past insults. Once it's decided to be a fight, it's never about who actually has a right to the throne, it becomes about who can give you the most so you can help them win it.

And this is what it really comes down to. Rhaenyra had a choice. She can back off, and her family can survive. Her brothers can live. Her sons will live. Or she can inherit, and her brothers can die. And she is perfectly willing for her brothers to die. And some may say that that's a very jaded view to take on Rhaenyra and she would never kill her family if she could help it... but it would be out of her hands. It would be necessary to protect her son's right to inherit and to keep away possible rebellions.

And you know, fine, that's okay. She wants to fight for the throne, more power to her. She can go after the throne and kill her brothers. But I don't think it's right that people say that she's the aggrieved party. She's not. She's the aggressor.

And that is why I'm team Green. Because Alicent is right. Just by living and breathing, Aegon and his brothers are threats to Rhaenyra. And this would have happened no matter who Viserys married. Sure people can be upset that Alicent married her bffs dad (something that only happens in the show because in the books, Alicent is 10 years older than Rhaenyra and they weren't close), but that doesn't mean her children should die because Rhaenyra is the preferred child. That doesn't mean the realm should be thrown into war because Alicent 'seduced' a widow. (And I say that with heavy sarcasm because Viserys is a grown ass man.)

And then there's the argument of who's the better house because of blood purity. It's a ridiculous argument and I'm honestly annoyed by people who are Targaryen purists and believe in the whole, dragon supremacy. Hightower is badass house. A lot of people don't realize that they've been around since The Wall and Winterfell were built (Bran the Builder built Hightower, commissioned by the Lord / King of Hightower). They've been around since before Targaryen's rode dragons. So spare me the ridiculous arguments of who's got the most Targaryen blood. If anything, Team Green is more Westerosi, you know, the country they are trying to rule.

In the end, the show will do what it does best, and disappoint you. Either they'll continue pushing this narrative of girl-boss queen and fail to show the complexity of the political situation that result from Rhaenyra's decisions. Or they might stick to the book and have a complex issue actually displayed and show both Aegon and Rhaenyra's descent into madness.

There are more issues one could delve into. Like the fact that Rhaenyra married Daemon. That either Corlys Velaryon has so much unhinged ambition that he's ignored deaths in his house to side with those who have literally murdered his family (cough cough Vaemond and Laenor) (and the whole Laenor excuse in the show makes no sense because no way in hell are Rhaenyra and Daemon risking that he's ever found and that their kids are declared bastards; it is much cleaner for them to do it like they did in the books and kill him) or there will be serious repercussions from the deaths of Velaryons and continued discussion of the succession of Driftmark/High Tide.

But that's the main summary of my thoughts. 👍

If you made it to the end of my rant. Thank you.