#anti viserys the first

[cursedshrines]

the writers seriously had viserys choose a girl younger than his daughter as his bride. they had him and his brother humiliate her. they had her conceive all her children through him martially raping her. they had him berate alicent right after his bastard grandson permanently disabled his son, who he interrogated instead of comfort. they had him neglect all his children. they had alicent, who was once a young girl he raped and humiliated, told aegon (who viserys also neglected) that she’d hope he’d be “half the king his father was”. they had her tell rhaenyra she loved viserys.

meanwhile book!alicent literally let her husband’s corpse rot and swell.

if you can’t see that the writers are making their female characters passive and removing any ambitions and aspirations they had in the books (except for rhaenyra, who is the only woman in house of the dragon who is allowed to flaunt her privilege or have ambitions), then idk dude.

[spacerockfloater]

“The Targaryens/ Valyrians are not white supremacists and can’t be compared to European Colonisers!”

Oh? My bad then. I must have them confused with some other white folks who thought their appearance made them superior, brought whole continents to heel, exploited the lands of others for their own greed, destroyed whole civilizations and enslaved vulnerable people who unfortunately lacked the advanced weapons of mass destruction they possessed.

��Well, the Andals and the First Men were also colonisers, so they deserved it!”

No way! Are you actually telling me that every race has a history of violence because human nature itself is corrupt and we’re no better than animals fighting for their place on this earth? That’s so crazy and original. By the way, are you saying that people deserved to get colonised and enslaved because they were fighting other people in order to survive? Are you suggesting these “savages” should have been contained by the righteous white folks who came there to better their lives? Not to mention that the Andals and the First Men came to Westeros 12,000 and 6,000 years ago respectively, while the Targaryens attacked Westeros barely 130 years ago (literally just 3 - 4 generations) from the Dance of the Dragons? So are you comparing the morality of the people who migrated here, who were so primitive that barely even possessed weapons of steel, with that of the most advanced civilization ever built in the ASOIAF universe? That’s so interesting! It’s almost as if the Andals and the First Men didn’t know any better until it was too late and were trying to find a land that could accommodate their millions of people, so they were essentially fighting for survival, whereas the Targaryens who came from a race that had evolved philosophically, politically, academically and technologically wise, possessed enough wealth and land to sustain their little family, yet still chose to go to war against the land that nurtured them out of pure greed! Hmmm. Do you also believe that the Greeks had it coming when they were enslaved by the Ottomans and should just let go of the past because it’s been so long since they regained their freedom (barely 200 years ago btw, after 4 centuries of slavery), because their Ancient Ancestral Tribes migrated to Greece and conquered the land 3,500 years ago, a little after the age of bronze? No? Then you might see why that kind thinking is flawed.

Stop defending these inbred bastards with your full chest. We get it. They look badass. We all have a fave war criminal but all of the Targs need to be put to the sword, along with their fucking lizards. Purposely denying the parallels between the Targaryens/ Valyrians and the Colonisers/ Conquerors of our world screams white saviour complex.

[dirtytransmasc]

Alicent being ignored as a parent during those first few years. Alicent being expected to take care of aegon, while also allowing Viserys to take him whenever he so pleased, to show off and pass around like a model toy. Alicent being denied her child whenever lords and ladies were around. Alicent only getting him back when she was at her wits end, stressed after being separated from him for so long, watching people hold him wrong, play with him wrong, touch him wrong. Alicent only getting him back when he is fussy and no longer a source of entertainment for Viserys and his guests. Alicent holding her baby close to her chest during outings or events, stiffening when people ask to see him, hesitant to release her grip on him. Alicent biting her tongue when people ask to "give her a break" when she really wants to tell them that it's her baby and she's perfectly capable. Alicent being so exhausted from guests and Aegon being so little and full of energy, and her second pregnancy, causing her to doze with Aegon in her arms, only to nearly lash out when someone tries to slip him from her arms, engulfing him in her arms as if to fend him from hungry wolves. Alicent carrying him around, even as she grows tired, her arms burning and back aching, so she knows he is safe, away from prying hands and acrid whispers, away from his father's attempts to use him for amusement purposes. Alicent feigning a smile, feigning composure and enjoyment, when really, she just wants to be home, in her chambers with her son, where no one can bother them, where they aren't props meant to smile and wave for a man who does not love them.

(inspired by this reblog of my post from earlier. cause yes, @squgs [hope you don't mind me tagging] is right, she would very much go to war for her baby)

[eschercaine]

The camera lens, cinematography, the costume department understanding the assignment... 😮‍💨 Serving Targaryen realness.

What follows after them is a catastrophe. It’s just a couple of people wearing blonde wigs.

[silver-dragonborn]

"B-but Aegon would never treat his brother like that! He would never do something like this!"

No.

Aegon II has already done something like this and will continue to do something like this because he can. Now that he has a crown on his fat fucking head, he will resume his torment of Aemond because now that he's the most powerful man in Westeros, no one, not even Saint Alicent, can stop him from torturing his family and exposing their humiliations to outsiders like his frat house Kingsguard.

[rise-my-angel]

How people hear the logo "fire and blood" and not think of fascism baffles me. Like it literally sounds like something the nazi's said. I know it might not be fair comparing real life history to fiction, especially in a medieval setting that doesn't match ...BUT THEY HAVE FLYING NUKES GUYS

Bear with me, but I think a lot of it stems from the dragons. In normal, or at least traditional fantasy, dragons are usually used differently in other stories. They can both be antagonists and companions to the hero. They are normally written to be while large and dangerous, also sort of majestic and awe inspiring.

So people see the dragons here, they see people riding them, and they think automatically it's cool. So if you're already someone more inclined to enjoy creatures like dragons, there's a perfect basis. A people whose culture revolves around dragons. It's an easy buy in to the Targaryean propaganda. You will automatically start seeing them in better lights because you like the dragons, whether you realize that or not.

But the problem is, grrm does not use dragons in the traditional sense. Grrm has been very clear that he has written the dragons as essentially, one for one metaphors to weapons of mass destruction. Grrm is also very anti war, a sentiment felt throughout all of his work, how no matter what justification one side or the other feels, it is the people, the lands, the smallfolk who suffer from war the most. So, the use of nuclear weapons in war, is essentially, the worst case scenario in terms of war. Which is what the Targaryeans use dragons for. Thats what Valyria has always used them for.

Fire and Blood sounds cool beacuse it is menacing, but it is more then that. It is the statement that they will burn the country to the ground so they can be kings of the ashes. Valyria used dragons to burn cities to the ground and were incredibly cruel to the slaves they took as a result that places like Bravvos are still massively anti dragon/anti valyrian. Two seperate people of Essos fled across to Westeros to escape them (The Andals and the Rhoynar), then the Targaryeans come to the same place and do THE EXACT SAME THING TO THE SAME PEOPLE WHO FLED THEM ORIGINALLY.

I am certain grrm is not writing dragons as "Its actually okay to use nukes if you're nice to them when you're building them." He's probably more likely to say "no matter what justification you tell yourself, access to such catastrophic destruction at your will and fingertips is a power no one should ever wield."

Yes the dragons are sentient creatures, but these are not like a creature such as a direwolf. One was sent to their human companion by a fate beyond them, and acts more like an extension of their identity and a friend as human and direwolf protect each other. Such as Nymeria biting Joffery to protect Arya, and Arya chasing Nymeria off to save her life for saving hers.

Dany murdered her own slave in order to use blood magic to force dragons back into a world after a peaceful number of centuries without them. Dany then uses them to burn her enemies alive, threaten those who stand against or disobey her and doesn't even consider taking steps to control them until after Drogon burned alive an innocent three year old girl, and even then all she does is lock them away in a manner that will no doubt only make them more angry and resentful of humans.

Not all sentient creatures are the same, and dragons specifically within the world of asoiaf are symbols of the dangerous balance of the world tipping too far. The Doom of Valyria was the result of using blood magic and dragons to tip the worlds balance too far and there is nothing left but a cursed, blighted hellscape left behind to remind man not to toy with nature in ways they will never be able to control. I don't think it's a coincidence that some stories say they found the first dragons in the Fourteen Flames, and it was the eventual eruption of the Fourteen Flames that destroyed Valyria and its dragons.

The Targaryeans didn't need to die with them, it's probably good that at least one family managed to safely leave so at least some aspects of a long, forgotten culture can be remembered in the history books from somewhere. But they do not act like just people. The Targaryeans still see themselves as something like gods.

In their eyes, they are better then the people of Westeros, those people taint their bloodline. They used dragons to force them to be subservient to them when all of those Kingdoms ruled independently for thousands of years before. Then they used those same dragons to tear the country apart.

No one is looking forward to or likes talking about the storming of the Dragonpit beacuse we want to see animal death. We want to see it for what it stands for. An uprising of people pushed too far by a monarchy that uses weapons of mass destruction recklessly beacuse they see themselves as gods. They refused to be subjected to that anymore, and they knew doing it would kill more men then it would dragons but they did it anyways. They looked at the free use of nuclear weapons and decided they will not live in that fear anymore.

Fire and Blood is literally their dragons. It is why they call themselves dragons. They are the destruction of the world, and they see nothing wrong with that.

Dragons plant no trees, and neither do the Targaryeans.

[the-daily-dreamer]

The tragedy of Viserys’s dream.

To have the dreamer and sons he has always wanted and yet never truly see them.

Music: The Crown of Jahaerys by Ramin Djawadi

[alicentflorent]

One thing I cannot understand about certain Rhaenicents is that when you call out the awfulness in their relationship they're all like "but that's what we liiiiike, tragic gfs who are toxic and co-dependent ❤️ 🥰 💕 💝!!!".

But here's the thing, it's not a dual tragedy nor is this relationship co-dependent. In fact Rhaenicent is completely dependent on Alicent being a doormat to Rhaenyra, sacrificing everything for a woman who would set her on fire if Jace said he was feeling cold.

What tragedy has befallen Rhaenyra in the benefit of Alicent? What has Rhaenyra sacrificed for Alicent's gain? Season 2 ends with Alicent a cowardly traitor and Rhaenyra a powerful Queen, the writers coulcn't make it any more clear how one sided and unequal their relationship is.

Rhaenyra gets to have her cake and eat it too, Alicent on the other hand must be grateful for the crumbs she will sometimes toss her way.

!!!

[rhaenyra-first-of-her-name]

Somebody send me recs about Team Black please.

[a0random0gal]

Criston calls the woman who coerced him into sex a cunt ONCE and hes a raging misogynist... he said no 😭😭 i finished the series on the weekend and got into the fandom just a little AND THE BULLSHIT I HAVE SEEN, to an extent i understand, theres an inherent distrust of men who clearly dont like a woman and express that (butttt i mean people are actually shipping blonde bitch with her blonde bitch uncle or stanning him and he's... actually sexist and awful but... wtf(not to say you cant like shit characters, its just the hypocrisy), and the show is very clearly on blonde womans side of things so i get that some fans are just gonna follow that and not think about it. BUT IF YOU DO think about it it dont make sense

also why did alicent marry her kids together, ive heard that in the books old king man did it and that its kinda against alice's religion? could have misheard head that and maybe i missed the explanation but that never made sense to me.

Oh how I get you anon, when I first entered the fandom I too was bombarded with these posts hating on Criston, Alicent and the greens and was left speechless. And yes, on one hand it can be excused (to a certain extent) but on the other it highlights their hypocrisy.

Hating on the kingsguard who was coerced into sex? That's completely excusable how dare he insult our kween!

Insinuating that their little malewife is actually a horrible misogynist who calls every woman he dislikes a whore/bitch and literally CHOKES his wife for not wanting to immediately go to war ( after also not consoling following a stillbirth)?

You just don't get his character, he's our little meow meow!

These Daemon fangirls aren't older than fifteen in my opinion lmao.

Regarding Aegon and Helaena's marriage, yes in the show Ali betrothes them but in the books Viserys is the one to do it, and there are various reasons as to why:

It removes the risk of alliances. If the green kids had all been married to powerful noble houses like the Baratheons, Tyrells etc... The risk that during the dance they would have sided with the greens was quite high, and Viserys wanted to defend Rhaenyra's claim.

Helaena was Ali's only daughter, and since she was to be married this young it made sense that the queen wanted to keep her close to her.

Aegon is a better alternative than Jace, Viserys probably told her that he wanted to marry Helaena to either Aegon or Jace, and Ali would have never accepted a marriage with a bastard.

It simply follows the Targaryen tradition of "keeping the blood pure"

This one is fucked up but, it was thought to be a solution to Aegon's drinking problem and sex addiction, it wasn't.

Regarding Alicent's faith... I imagine seeing her kids marrying each other was super freaky, but she always knew that Targaryens married within the family and her marriage with Viserys was an exeption. Also the faith of the seven by that time had already decided to tolerate Targcest.

[cursedshrines]

i think about viserys and i get so viscerally angry every time. this man impregnated his wife time and time again—since she was a mere child—and it killed her. this man married a child, his daughter’s closest friend, because she… was decent to him during his time of mourning? this was a man who proceeded to impregnate his wife multiple times, and completely neglect their children because of the grieve he felt over killing his first wife. this man, instead of even offering basic compassion and empathy to his son after the boy just lost an eye, instead yelled and demanded to know who called his grandsons bastards. this man, after everything he put his second wife and their children through with his negligence, called rhaenyra his only child. this man is absolutely looking up at us right now, fuck him i’m so serious right now.

[mejcinta]

"The burden of this knowledge ... is larger than you."

And what did Rhaenyra do about all that, Viserys?

[chocobroing]

Exactly. If Viserys married Laena, it would be the Blacks vs the Blues.

i can't read hotd fics that act like laena marrying viserys instead of alicent fixes anything because first of all, laena's going to end up in the exact same position as alicent no matter if viserys waits for her to grow up or not, and second of all, like hell the velaryons would side with rhaenyra over their own daughter with her own kids in line for the throne

[melodymidway]

Just a few hard pills to swallow about the Westerosi succession for Team Black stans.

The Greens weren't at all delusional or selfish to expect Aegon to be named heir.

As a matter of fact, the firstborn sons of lords and kings become heirs the moment they were born, and without the need for specification. It doesn't matter if the first wife, or the second, or the tenth, has given birth to said son. So when Otto and Alicent advocated for Aegon's birthright, they asked for a basic thing in their time and society. No matter how much people want to ignore this fact and call Aegon 'usurper', his claim was very real and very strong. This is why he, his sons and his brothers would have found themselves on the Wall at best and dead at worst even if they had adhered to Viserys's whims.

Lucerys has zero claim to Driftmark. And no, being the great-great-whatever grandson of Alyssa Velaryon doesn't make the slightest difference.

Not even legitimisation would have helped Luke retain his Velaryon heirship because he isn't a Velaryon. Period. The argument about his being Alyssa Velaryon's descendant, which is somehow supposed to justify the actual usurpation of the other House's seat, is one of the most nonsensical takes I've seen. Naturally, the noble Houses intermarry all the time. If every lord opened his pedigree and decided that he has a claim to his great-grandmother's family's castle, Westeros would drown in blood. That's why succession laws exist, as unfair as they can be. For some reason, I don't see people saying that Doran Martell should be crowned king because he's descended from Daenerys Targaryen.

Women in Westeros can and do inherit. Rhaenyra isn't special.

As the Andal law goes, a son inherits before a daughter, and a daughter inherits before an uncle. While the male primogeniture is a thing, there's a clear clause of female inheritance. Cersei becomes the Lady of Casterly Rock when her brothers are out of picture. Rhaenys operated on the same law while trying to get her lawful heirship. There are cases when uncles attempt to steal their nieces' birthright (as in the situation with Sansa Stark and her uncle Jonnel), but plenty of women do rule their ancestral seats. Saying that Rhaenyra is the first woman to be named heir is wildly inaccurate.

If Rhaenys had ascended the Iron Throne instead of Viserys, the matters of succession wouldn't have changed.

For some reason many people believe that Rhaenys's ascension would have magically wiped out male primogeniture (same for Jace if he had become king). I'm sorry to disappoint, but Laenor would have been Rhaenys's heir, not Laena. The latter would have been made one only if Laenor had met his canon fate and died with no legitimate issue. As I mentioned earlier, Rhaenys strived to get her inheritance based on Andal law, according to which she does have an advantage over her uncle Baelon and his sons. If she had been the older sister of Viserys and Daemon, she wouldn't have pressed her claim. By the same logic, if Viserys had never remarried, Rhaenyra would have had a legal advantage over Daemon (though Jaehaerys's 'brilliant' management of Rhaenys vs Viserys debate might have gotten in the way).

The Greens are pro Andal law, not anti women in power.

And these are two different things since, as it had already been said, the Andal law does include a clause of female inheritance. So no, it isn't hypocritical of Alicent to offer to make Baela heiress of Driftmark. Laenor is dead without legitimate children. Laena is equally dead. The circumstances make Baela a very viable candidate for the Velaryon heirship.

[alicentflorent]

Thinking about young Alicent overhearing viserys refer to baby Aegon as Otto’s blood and Rhaenyra as his own blood then years later when their other son is maimed she begs “please Viserys, he is your son, your blood.” Just for Viserys to ignore her and their child who sits there injured and in pain.

[asongofstarkandtargaryen]

There are some heavy anti parallels between Daenerys Targaryen and Joffrey Baratheon/Cersei Lannister as monarchs in the way they treat Ser Barristan Selmy.

Joffrey dismisses Barristan Selmy from the Kingsguard because he needed someone to blame for his father's (Robert's) death. Of course, Joffrey is in reality his mother's puppet King, who considers dismissing Ser Barristan Selmy a great decision, as it would clear the way for Jaime to become the commander of the Kingsguard and give his a seat on the Small Council ( and Lannisters are all for nepotism in the way they run things). Plus, with Ser Barristan Selmy gone, Joffrey could make his personal guard Sandor, a member of the Kingsguard, something that Cersei also considered a winning situation.

Cersei sighed. "Joff wanted someone to blame for Robert's death. Varys suggested Ser Barristan. Why not? It gave Jaime command of the Kingsguard and a seat on the small council, and allowed Joff to throw a bone to his dog. He is very fond of Sandor Clegane. We were prepared to offer Selmy some land and a towerhouse, more than the useless old fool deserved."

Tyrion I, ACOK

The above passage not only reveals that Joffrey is his mother's puppet King but also that Cersei isn't the most clever person when it comes to ruling. Not only she fell for Varys' plan but she is also a very bad judge of other people. She considers Barristan Selmy an "useless old fool" when he's a great fighter and an asset due to his experience and strength for any ruler to have by their side. She also considers a great exchange to have Sandor in Barristan Selmy's place and we saw how that worked for the Lannisters at the end of ACOK.

Another passage on this specific incident that shows Cersei's myopic way of thinking:

"Ser Barristan was the Lord Commander of Robert Baratheon's Kingsguard," Tyrion reminded her pointedly. "He and Jaime are the only survivors of Aerys Targaryen's seven. The smallfolk talk of him in the same way they talk of Serwyn of the Mirror Shield and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight. What do you imagine they'll think when they see Barristan the Bold riding beside Robb Stark or Stannis Baratheon?"

Cersei glanced away. "I had not considered that.

Tyrion I, ACOK

Let's compare it with Daenerys, who finds out that Ser Barristan Selmy was lying to her about his identity. What is more, she realises that the man she trusted as her advisor was serving Robert Baratheon for years. Ser Jorah, in a move that closely reflects Varys' manipulation of Cersei/Joffrey, offers to kill Barristan Selmy for Daenerys. But Dany, needs to first listen Barristan's story before she decides what she'll do with him:

"Why are you here?" Dany demanded of him. "If Robert sent you to kill me, why did you save my life?" He served the Usurper. He betrayed Rhaegar's memory, and abandoned Viserys to live and die in exile. Yet if he wanted me dead, he need only have stood aside . . . "I want the whole truth now, on your honor as a knight. Are you the Usurper's man, or mine?"

"Yours, if you will have me." Ser Barristan had tears in his eyes. "I took Robert's pardon, aye. I served him in Kingsguard and council. Served with the Kingslayer and others near as bad, who soiled the white cloak I wore. Nothing will excuse that. I might be serving in King's Landing still if the vile boy upon the Iron Throne had not cast me aside, it shames me to admit. But when he took the cloak that the White Bull had draped about my shoulders, and sent men to kill me that selfsame day, it was as though he'd ripped a caul off my eyes. That was when I knew I must find my true king, and die in his service—"

"I can grant that wish," Ser Jorah said darkly.

"Quiet," said Dany. "I'll hear him out."

Daenerys V, ASOS

Daenerys, unlike Cersei, won't allow any advisor of hers to cloud her judgement. She knew beforehand that Ser Jorah was antagonistic towards Ser Barristan so even if she doesn't fully know the reason yet ( the revelation that Jorah was a traitor happens right after that passage) she won't allow him to interfere while she gets Barristan's confession.

Of course, after she finds out that not only one but two close advisors of hers have betrayed her she has a strong reaction. It's only natural for her to do so. And yet, despite that antis always accuse her of being merciless, she shows mercy while dealing with them. Another ruler would execute them both for treason and no one would bat an eye. In fact, everyone would say that their action was justified while treating with two traitors. But Dany admits on her inner monologue that she can't do that:

Go, go away forever, both of you, the next time I see your faces I'll have your traitors' heads off. She could not say the words, though. They betrayed me. But they saved me. But they lied. "You go . . ." My bear, my fierce strong bear, what will I do without him? And the old man, my brother's friend. "You go . . . go . . ." Where?

And then she knew.

Daenerys V, ASOS

When they both return successful from their mission to help the capturing of the city of Mereen, it's time for her to decide what she'll do with each of them.

Even while she has every right to be angry with them - and she is- she is still fair towards them and admits twice that they helped her to win Mereen.

Before she makes her decision, she opts to listen to Barristan's story once again, to understand better the reasons why he acted the way he did. It's a good move for a leader because someone who leads needs to know all the facts in order to make a fair judgement on someone. And that's what Dany does.

Barristan doesn't sugarcoat his opinion. He tells her that he considered Robert a good man and that's why he followed him instead of Viserys who he thought to be unfit to rule. He even tells Dany that he lied about his identity because he wanted to make sure she was - unlike her father and brother Viserys- fit to rule before he pledged his sword to her.

Once again, another ruler would be offended by the knight's words. He insulted her dead relatives by calling them unworthy to rule,which are true facts but how many rulers or even mere noble do you know besides Dany that would accept hard truths about their families? And then he proceed to tell her that he didn't automatically choose to follow her because she's the rightful ruler - remember both Dany and Barristan live in a world where they believe in ruling by birthright- but first he had to test her abilities to rule. And Dany was okay with that! How many rulers or again mere nobles do you know that would be okay with someone questioning their birthright and telling them that they need to prove their worth before they claim it? I really believe that as a fandom we don't give Dany the recognition she deserves for being more humble than most while dealing with these subjects.

Daenerys decides to allow Ser Barristan Selmy to remain by her side and that shows her political genius - which again is hardly recognised in the asoiaf fandom. She set aside her hurt pride by the knight's words and saw the bigger picture: someone who decided to follow her not simply because of her birthright but because he considers her a component leader is gonna be forever loyal to her. And Barristan Selmy is an asset for a ruler to have by their side, something that Tyrion had pointed out on his own chapter while he was dealing with the knight's dismissal by his nephew/sister.

And Dany made the right decision because we can see how much loyal Ser Barristan is to her on the fifth book of the series. He remains loyal to her even after Dany goes missing towards to the end of the book.