#anti viserys the first

[sunfyrisms]

the writers seriously had viserys choose a girl younger than his daughter as his bride. they had him and his brother humiliate her. they had her conceive all her children through him martially raping her. they had him berate alicent right after his bastard grandson permanently disabled his son, who he interrogated instead of comfort. they had him neglect all his children. they had alicent, who was once a young girl he raped and humiliated, told aegon (who viserys also neglected) that she’d hope he’d be “half the king his father was”. they had her tell rhaenyra she loved viserys.

meanwhile book!alicent literally let her husband’s corpse rot and swell.

if you can’t see that the writers are making their female characters passive and removing any ambitions and aspirations they had in the books (except for rhaenyra, who is the only woman in house of the dragon who is allowed to flaunt her privilege or have ambitions), then idk dude.

[spacerockfloater]

“The Targaryens/ Valyrians are not white supremacists and can’t be compared to European Colonisers!”

Oh? My bad then. I must have them confused with some other white folks who thought their appearance made them superior, brought whole continents to heel, exploited the lands of others for their own greed, destroyed whole civilizations and enslaved vulnerable people who unfortunately lacked the advanced weapons of mass destruction they possessed.

“Well, the Andals and the First Men were also colonisers, so they deserved it!”

No way! Are you actually telling me that every race has a history of violence because human nature itself is corrupt and we’re no better than animals fighting for their place on this earth? That’s so crazy and original. By the way, are you saying that people deserved to get colonised and enslaved because they were fighting other people in order to survive? Are you suggesting these “savages” should have been contained by the righteous white folks who came there to better their lives? Not to mention that the Andals and the First Men came to Westeros 12,000 and 6,000 years ago respectively, while the Targaryens attacked Westeros barely 130 years ago (literally just 3 - 4 generations) from the Dance of the Dragons? So are you comparing the morality of the people who migrated here, who were so primitive that barely even possessed weapons of steel, with that of the most advanced civilization ever built in the ASOIAF universe? That’s so interesting! It’s almost as if the Andals and the First Men didn’t know any better until it was too late and were trying to find a land that could accommodate their millions of people, so they were essentially fighting for survival, whereas the Targaryens who came from a race that had evolved philosophically, politically, academically and technologically wise, possessed enough wealth and land to sustain their little family, yet still chose to go to war against the land that nurtured them out of pure greed! Hmmm. Do you also believe that the Greeks had it coming when they were enslaved by the Ottomans and should just let go of the past because it’s been so long since they regained their freedom (barely 200 years ago btw, after 4 centuries of slavery), because their Ancient Ancestral Tribes migrated to Greece and conquered the land 3,500 years ago, a little after the age of bronze? No? Then you might see why that kind thinking is flawed.

Stop defending these inbred bastards with your full chest. We get it. They look badass. We all have a fave war criminal but all of the Targs need to be put to the sword, along with their fucking lizards. Purposely denying the parallels between the Targaryens/ Valyrians and the Colonisers/ Conquerors of our world screams white saviour complex.

[dirtytransmasc]

Alicent being ignored as a parent during those first few years. Alicent being expected to take care of aegon, while also allowing Viserys to take him whenever he so pleased, to show off and pass around like a model toy. Alicent being denied her child whenever lords and ladies were around. Alicent only getting him back when she was at her wits end, stressed after being separated from him for so long, watching people hold him wrong, play with him wrong, touch him wrong. Alicent only getting him back when he is fussy and no longer a source of entertainment for Viserys and his guests. Alicent holding her baby close to her chest during outings or events, stiffening when people ask to see him, hesitant to release her grip on him. Alicent biting her tongue when people ask to "give her a break" when she really wants to tell them that it's her baby and she's perfectly capable. Alicent being so exhausted from guests and Aegon being so little and full of energy, and her second pregnancy, causing her to doze with Aegon in her arms, only to nearly lash out when someone tries to slip him from her arms, engulfing him in her arms as if to fend him from hungry wolves. Alicent carrying him around, even as she grows tired, her arms burning and back aching, so she knows he is safe, away from prying hands and acrid whispers, away from his father's attempts to use him for amusement purposes. Alicent feigning a smile, feigning composure and enjoyment, when really, she just wants to be home, in her chambers with her son, where no one can bother them, where they aren't props meant to smile and wave for a man who does not love them.

(inspired by this reblog of my post from earlier. cause yes, @squgs [hope you don't mind me tagging] is right, she would very much go to war for her baby)

[eschercaine]

The camera lens, cinematography, the costume department understanding the assignment... 😮‍💨 Serving Targaryen realness.

What follows after them is a catastrophe. It’s just a couple of people wearing blonde wigs.

[silver-dragonborn]

"B-but Aegon would never treat his brother like that! He would never do something like this!"

No.

Aegon II has already done something like this and will continue to do something like this because he can. Now that he has a crown on his fat fucking head, he will resume his torment of Aemond because now that he's the most powerful man in Westeros, no one, not even Saint Alicent, can stop him from torturing his family and exposing their humiliations to outsiders like his frat house Kingsguard.

[rise-my-angel]

How people hear the logo "fire and blood" and not think of fascism baffles me. Like it literally sounds like something the nazi's said. I know it might not be fair comparing real life history to fiction, especially in a medieval setting that doesn't match ...BUT THEY HAVE FLYING NUKES GUYS

Bear with me, but I think a lot of it stems from the dragons. In normal, or at least traditional fantasy, dragons are usually used differently in other stories. They can both be antagonists and companions to the hero. They are normally written to be while large and dangerous, also sort of majestic and awe inspiring.

So people see the dragons here, they see people riding them, and they think automatically it's cool. So if you're already someone more inclined to enjoy creatures like dragons, there's a perfect basis. A people whose culture revolves around dragons. It's an easy buy in to the Targaryean propaganda. You will automatically start seeing them in better lights because you like the dragons, whether you realize that or not.

But the problem is, grrm does not use dragons in the traditional sense. Grrm has been very clear that he has written the dragons as essentially, one for one metaphors to weapons of mass destruction. Grrm is also very anti war, a sentiment felt throughout all of his work, how no matter what justification one side or the other feels, it is the people, the lands, the smallfolk who suffer from war the most. So, the use of nuclear weapons in war, is essentially, the worst case scenario in terms of war. Which is what the Targaryeans use dragons for. Thats what Valyria has always used them for.

Fire and Blood sounds cool beacuse it is menacing, but it is more then that. It is the statement that they will burn the country to the ground so they can be kings of the ashes. Valyria used dragons to burn cities to the ground and were incredibly cruel to the slaves they took as a result that places like Bravvos are still massively anti dragon/anti valyrian. Two seperate people of Essos fled across to Westeros to escape them (The Andals and the Rhoynar), then the Targaryeans come to the same place and do THE EXACT SAME THING TO THE SAME PEOPLE WHO FLED THEM ORIGINALLY.

I am certain grrm is not writing dragons as "Its actually okay to use nukes if you're nice to them when you're building them." He's probably more likely to say "no matter what justification you tell yourself, access to such catastrophic destruction at your will and fingertips is a power no one should ever wield."

Yes the dragons are sentient creatures, but these are not like a creature such as a direwolf. One was sent to their human companion by a fate beyond them, and acts more like an extension of their identity and a friend as human and direwolf protect each other. Such as Nymeria biting Joffery to protect Arya, and Arya chasing Nymeria off to save her life for saving hers.

Dany murdered her own slave in order to use blood magic to force dragons back into a world after a peaceful number of centuries without them. Dany then uses them to burn her enemies alive, threaten those who stand against or disobey her and doesn't even consider taking steps to control them until after Drogon burned alive an innocent three year old girl, and even then all she does is lock them away in a manner that will no doubt only make them more angry and resentful of humans.

Not all sentient creatures are the same, and dragons specifically within the world of asoiaf are symbols of the dangerous balance of the world tipping too far. The Doom of Valyria was the result of using blood magic and dragons to tip the worlds balance too far and there is nothing left but a cursed, blighted hellscape left behind to remind man not to toy with nature in ways they will never be able to control. I don't think it's a coincidence that some stories say they found the first dragons in the Fourteen Flames, and it was the eventual eruption of the Fourteen Flames that destroyed Valyria and its dragons.

The Targaryeans didn't need to die with them, it's probably good that at least one family managed to safely leave so at least some aspects of a long, forgotten culture can be remembered in the history books from somewhere. But they do not act like just people. The Targaryeans still see themselves as something like gods.

In their eyes, they are better then the people of Westeros, those people taint their bloodline. They used dragons to force them to be subservient to them when all of those Kingdoms ruled independently for thousands of years before. Then they used those same dragons to tear the country apart.

No one is looking forward to or likes talking about the storming of the Dragonpit beacuse we want to see animal death. We want to see it for what it stands for. An uprising of people pushed too far by a monarchy that uses weapons of mass destruction recklessly beacuse they see themselves as gods. They refused to be subjected to that anymore, and they knew doing it would kill more men then it would dragons but they did it anyways. They looked at the free use of nuclear weapons and decided they will not live in that fear anymore.

Fire and Blood is literally their dragons. It is why they call themselves dragons. They are the destruction of the world, and they see nothing wrong with that.

Dragons plant no trees, and neither do the Targaryeans.

[the-daily-dreamer]

The tragedy of Viserys’s dream.

To have the dreamer and sons he has always wanted and yet never truly see them.

Music: The Crown of Jahaerys by Ramin Djawadi

[rosalinesurvived]

Do you‐uhh.

Do you ever think that the Green kids resent Alicent for being on Rhaenyra's side?

Because um. Obviously watching their gaslit, grief-stricken mother charging and making the Princess bleed for Aemond loosing an eye with no justice is harrowing and incredible and terrifying. (Our mother loves us! She's begging for our Father to care! She slashed the Princess! She does love us!) And then years later Alicent is telling Aegon to spare Rhaenyra, holding Rhaenyra's arm infront of them at supper.

Did they ever feel as if they were the late ones? The invaders? Do you think they felt as if it was a constant fight for their Mother's affections? Can you imagine the reproach they mustve felt, knowing that they were unwanted (What have I done but what was expected of me?) watching their mother raise hell for them, then always looking around for one of the objects of their agony?

[alicentflorent]

One thing I cannot understand about certain Rhaenicents is that when you call out the awfulness in their relationship they're all like "but that's what we liiiiike, tragic gfs who are toxic and co-dependent ❤️ 🥰 💕 💝!!!".

But here's the thing, it's not a dual tragedy nor is this relationship co-dependent. In fact Rhaenicent is completely dependent on Alicent being a doormat to Rhaenyra, sacrificing everything for a woman who would set her on fire if Jace said he was feeling cold.

What tragedy has befallen Rhaenyra in the benefit of Alicent? What has Rhaenyra sacrificed for Alicent's gain? Season 2 ends with Alicent a cowardly traitor and Rhaenyra a powerful Queen, the writers coulcn't make it any more clear how one sided and unequal their relationship is.

Rhaenyra gets to have her cake and eat it too, Alicent on the other hand must be grateful for the crumbs she will sometimes toss her way.

!!!

[rhaenyra-first-of-her-name]

Somebody send me recs about Team Black please.

[sunfyrisms]

i think about viserys and i get so viscerally angry every time. this man impregnated his wife time and time again—since she was a mere child—and it killed her. this man married a child, his daughter’s closest friend, because she… was decent to him during his time of mourning? this was a man who proceeded to impregnate his wife multiple times, and completely neglect their children because of the grieve he felt over killing his first wife. this man, instead of even offering basic compassion and empathy to his son after the boy just lost an eye, instead yelled and demanded to know who called his grandsons bastards. this man, after everything he put his second wife and their children through with his negligence, called rhaenyra his only child. this man is absolutely looking up at us right now, fuck him i’m so serious right now.

[a0random0gal]

Criston calls the woman who coerced him into sex a cunt ONCE and hes a raging misogynist... he said no 😭😭 i finished the series on the weekend and got into the fandom just a little AND THE BULLSHIT I HAVE SEEN, to an extent i understand, theres an inherent distrust of men who clearly dont like a woman and express that (butttt i mean people are actually shipping blonde bitch with her blonde bitch uncle or stanning him and he's... actually sexist and awful but... wtf(not to say you cant like shit characters, its just the hypocrisy), and the show is very clearly on blonde womans side of things so i get that some fans are just gonna follow that and not think about it. BUT IF YOU DO think about it it dont make sense

also why did alicent marry her kids together, ive heard that in the books old king man did it and that its kinda against alice's religion? could have misheard head that and maybe i missed the explanation but that never made sense to me.

Oh how I get you anon, when I first entered the fandom I too was bombarded with these posts hating on Criston, Alicent and the greens and was left speechless. And yes, on one hand it can be excused (to a certain extent) but on the other it highlights their hypocrisy.

Hating on the kingsguard who was coerced into sex? That's completely excusable how dare he insult our kween!

Insinuating that their little malewife is actually a horrible misogynist who calls every woman he dislikes a whore/bitch and literally CHOKES his wife for not wanting to immediately go to war ( after also not consoling following a stillbirth)?

You just don't get his character, he's our little meow meow!

These Daemon fangirls aren't older than fifteen in my opinion lmao.

Regarding Aegon and Helaena's marriage, yes in the show Ali betrothes them but in the books Viserys is the one to do it, and there are various reasons as to why:

It removes the risk of alliances. If the green kids had all been married to powerful noble houses like the Baratheons, Tyrells etc... The risk that during the dance they would have sided with the greens was quite high, and Viserys wanted to defend Rhaenyra's claim.

Helaena was Ali's only daughter, and since she was to be married this young it made sense that the queen wanted to keep her close to her.

Aegon is a better alternative than Jace, Viserys probably told her that he wanted to marry Helaena to either Aegon or Jace, and Ali would have never accepted a marriage with a bastard.

It simply follows the Targaryen tradition of "keeping the blood pure"

This one is fucked up but, it was thought to be a solution to Aegon's drinking problem and sex addiction, it wasn't.

Regarding Alicent's faith... I imagine seeing her kids marrying each other was super freaky, but she always knew that Targaryens married within the family and her marriage with Viserys was an exeption. Also the faith of the seven by that time had already decided to tolerate Targcest.

[mejcinta]

"The burden of this knowledge ... is larger than you."

And what did Rhaenyra do about all that, Viserys?

[thattargboy]

What’s your perspective on the fight at Driftmark?

Short answer: I don’t blame Aemond (or. I blame him a little because disrespect, but the kid lost an eye so he gets sympathy points), I especially don’t blame Rhaena or Baela, they did nothing wrong 🥰. I kinda blame Luke and Jace because they were the ones with the knife, but mostly their parents because why was no one watching these kids???? Should there not have been a guard outside their rooms or something????

Very long and repetitive answer: I understand that as soon as Laena died Vhagar was a free dragon, and “technically” Rhaena had no claim over her. That doesn’t change the fact that she was an eight year old girl who has just lost her mother (who had ordered that dragon to kill her and that definitely factors in), so I understand why she felt entitled to try to claim her and why she hadn’t attempted it yet.

So yeah needless to say, claiming Vhagar during the night of the funeral was very disrespectful on Aemond’s part. Does it make sense why he did it? Absolutely. He was like 10 (?12?) being bullied by his big brother and his nephews and he wanted to prove himself by claiming the oldest and biggest dragon in the world because It Be Like That, and yeah he was technically right in like that Rhaena “should have” tried to claim Vhagar. But like I said. Eight year old girl at her mom’s funeral. And also Rhaena understands what it feels like to feel inadequate over lacking a dragon so really Aemond what’s your play?

Also we have no idea that Vhagar would have even accepted Rhaena if she did try to claim her, but honestly I think she would have. No real reason there other than vibes so feel free to disagree.

Ultimately, Baela, Rhaena, Luke and Jace should have gone to guards or their parents if they thought something was going on with Vhagar but then again they were kids so I don’t blame for not doing so, and I think we all have taken something into our own hands when we kids that we should have went to adults for (I do however blame their parents for not having anyone watching them and instead banging on the beach at his wife’s funeral). But like. They weren’t being watched and they took things into their own hands, like kids do, and they reacted very emotionally and got into a fight (and no, 4v1 is not fair, but also they are all like 12 and under. I know y’all have seen playground fights like that in your youth. If they were older I’d be like oh yeah fuck all four of them), like kids do.

And honestly if Aemond didn’t lose an eye I probably would just be like “haha little shit got what he deserves,” because like. Not to sound like Bobby B here cuz fuck that guy but. Kids fight. It’s a thing they do because like emotional regulation is undeveloped and all over the place. It’s over. (Thinking about it because that scene was an obvious parallel to the one in GoT, making that comparison with Cersei and Alicent is both genius and fills me with rage)

But to get back on track, Aemond did lose an eye, and y’know permanent mutilation and a scuffle between cousins (and uncle/nephews) are two very different things.

Jace never should have brought the knife and honestly for once I can’t really see the kid logic there. I guess I can compare it to like being a kid and thinking you hear a burglar and instead of waking up your parents you grab a bat (okay now I’m seeing the kid logic, Jace you’re free to go. Still why did he even have a dagger in the first place kid’s like 9???)

And then there’s Luke, who I’m giving some leniency because he’s the youngest, but again even a 7 year old knows better then to cut a boy’s eye out.

Like yeah from his perspective Aemond was about to brain his brother with a rock so yeah I kinda get it. But us as viewers are not 7 year olds in the middle of a fight, and we could see that Aemond was not moving, and really Luke should have been able to see that too but also, need I say it again? A kid in the middle of a fight. I honestly kinda thought it looked like Aemond was gonna put it down but no one else seems to think that so I’m just gonna assume I’m wrong

Ultimately what I think the problem was no one was punished. Back to sounding like Bobby B because obviously none of the kids should have tortured (or sharply questioned) or lost an eye as compensation (really girlie, charging with his knife is iconic but very stupid). But to bring it back to the playground thing, if that was fight in an elementary school all of those kids would have been getting in trouble.

Instead Viserys threatened his wife and children over the truth. So. Yeah. Fuck all the adults in that situation.

(Also I do understand and sympathize with both Alicent and Rhaenyra in that scene. Alicent’s son has been made permanently disabled and no one is on her side not even the child’s father, it makes sense that she kinda snapped, and yes even though it is the truth, calling her children bastards puts their lives and their inheritance in danger, of course they’re both going to try and protect their children it’s what mothers do. Understandable and sympathetic, and even justifiable doesn’t mean they were exactly in the right however.)

Westeros needs some sort of man price, at the very least Luke should have been made to apologize (and then apologize again when he’s older and actually means it instead of laughing at the pig) and in a world where we got more episodes and they emphasized that this is a family we’re watching tear itself apart I would have liked to seen Aemond at least try to put water under the bridge with Rhaena and only Rhaena (and maybe Baela but she wasn’t really involved) when they’re older.

(Like maybe if we got to see Aegon and Helaena’s wedding, and Rhaenyra’s family was invited. That could’ve been cool.)

All that said (and sorry for saying so much), the way everything played out makes sense and I wouldn’t change it except like I said with like older Aemond and Rhaena attempting to make amends before shit hits the fan.

[thesilverlady]

I'm not enough of a book purist to not being able to enjoy headcanons, crackships etc (as a matter of fact I do love them). But seeing newbies unironically and completely serious considering aemond to "trying to be the perfect son", or "heleana is the people's princess" or "rhaenyra is calm, collected and strategic", "Daemon is the family's clown, the agent of chaos" legit gives me a headache because they are nothing like that.

And I'm not talking about ppl writing fanfics with this type of characterization, but ppl legit having takes based on the terrible portrayal of the show. And even when they go to read f&b they still have the image the show gave them because they don't seem capable of letting go.

it just feels like Jon Snow/Daenerys Targaryen character assassination all of again.

There are so many people who consider Jon to be basically ned 2.0 and Dany a mad queen-girlboss-slay

I just wish we could seperate books from adaptations. That's all

[lemonhemlock]

"It was just a tax increase!"

I don't know how to explain to you that throwing expensive banquets while all of King's Landing starved is not a good look for anyone.

Rhaenyra's banquet and tax increases are also verifiable facts, whereas what Mushroom says about Aegon is hearsay. I would like a side-by-side comparison of Aegon's and Rhaenyra's policies, with an assessment of how trustworthy the source is. You know, like actual historians are supposed to do.

As if Rhaenyra wouldn't have reacted the same way if B&C happened to her.