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seventeenlovesthree · 4 months ago

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Digi Dynamic Shipping Game

Send me two names among the following 12 and I’ll write a short analysis post about them:

Whether canon provides input on them or not.

Unfortunately I didn't make it before the end of Pride Month, but - while there are a lot of potentially queer ships in the subtext of the Digimon universe that fit the tone, there aren't as many of them that came this close to technically being confirmed as having a valid (canon) baseline as this one.

To ask if canon provides input on Daisuke and Ken - or Daiken, Kensuke, Daisuken, however you want to call them -, is, once again, like asking if water is wet; they're the most elaborated relationship in the entirety of Digimon Adventure 02, the majority of Ken's development is tied to his bond to Daisuke... If you want to read more about why I value their relationship so much, I definitely recommend this post here, because they're just... Endlessly fascinating to me.

The good-hearted goofball with self-esteem issues that lead him to play a role to impress others initially - meets a corrupted genius and literally slaps the darkness out of his system. They turn from fated rivals to fated partners, facing the powers of darkness together and eventually, they become better people in the process thanks to one another. Daisuke's entire priority system changes upon wanting to give Ken a chance, he not only becomes more honest and less defensive, but also lets his personal sense of courage and friendship shine through; Ken, who's initially reluctant to take the hand Daisuke is offering him due to all the guilt he feels, slowly but steadily becomes the kind and gentle soul that was always within him, because there is someone by his side who has his back. Always.

It's a beautiful story of two complementing souls, whose bond enables the first real Jogress evolution, despite the fact - or even because - they couldn't be any more different. It's a story of repentance, forgiveness, learning to befriend others despite your own trauma and differences - and the story of a romantic subtext that almost hits you in the face if you're not careful enough. There is a reason why the screenshot above exists - the most recent movie literally acknowledged that, even after all these years, the bond between Daiken has not vanished and has, instead, gained a somewhat (actively) flirtatious nuance. While it used to be Ken who blushed due to Daisuke's (oftentimes oblivious) bluntness, the same Ken is now forward enough to openly praise Daisuke in ways that make it impossible to overlook the potential implications here - well, for anybody who isn't Daisuke himself at least...

Whether I think why and how they’d work.

Given the circumstances that we're, unfortunately, not talking about a canonically confirmed ship, we just gotta pretend that there will be a day when Ken's attempts of asking Daisuke out will be answered in two potential ways: 1.) "Huh? YOU WERE FLIRTING WITH ME THE ENTIRE TIME????" or 2.) "Huh? I thought we were together this entire time anyway???" Because both of these would be somewhat plausible "Daisuk-esque" reactions in my opinion.

I thoroughly believe that these two would work out romantically in fantastic ways - even though it'd take a lot of work, but which relationship that intends to last doesn't? They both chose careers that require enormous amounts of time and energy - and very irregular working hours. Granted, the latter applies to the majority of the Chosen Children, but an aspiring chef of his own Ramen cart may only be able to see an aspiring police officer if the latter's break time allows him to grab a meal at a Ramen facility that is coincidentally very close by... Gate hopping may have made that a lot easier, but at this point, we don't even know if that is still a thing anymore.

I still maintain that, as much as they'd be married to their jobs, they both still have quite a romantic side to themselves once the curse is broken - so they would make time, just like they did throughout all these years. While their interests in general might also be quite different, they would always find a way to bond over their mutual love for sports, football in particular. Ken needs someone who pulls him out of his head - and Daisuke needs someone who grounds him, which, as The Beginning suggested, is (basically) exactly their dynamic. They always enjoy group gatherings with their friend groups, food tastings are always a reason for Daisuke to invite everybody over - especially to lure Ken away from work. And let's be real, I can also see them go on cheesy dates - that mostly consist of them doing sporting activities (any kind of ball sport, rollerskating, hiking) where Daisuke can (pretend to) be competitive and Ken knowingly plays along with the teasing, just so they have an excuse to be close. Because they'd be cheesy like that, oh Lord, they'd be so cheesy in the most wanna-be-bro way possible.

Whether I’d prefer them as platonic or romantic ship.

In a universe in which Miyaken doesn't become canon, there is literally no reason for Daiken not to be endgame - unless the writers actually had some guts and turned them into an official OT3 in The Beginning. Of course I can always enjoys them as just platonic life partners, bros 4 life, you don't even have to give it a label, as long as they remain as close as they are. Because they simply belong together, one way or another.

#daiken #kensuke #daisuken #my two cents #shipping game #meta #daisuke motomiya #ken ichijouji #davis motomiya #the beginning spoilers

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utilitycaster · 1 year ago

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You have such a way of articulating things I’ve been vaguely feeling into intelligent coherent statements. Would you care to elaborate on the way that how Laudna+Imogen “went canon” was a curse?

Hey anon,

Thank you! So this is the thing: obviously I tend towards a fairly critical and snarky demeanor, but like, the best way to put it is in the context of the impending Nein show. I, and most of the people I chat with who are also not feeling Imogen and Laudna's relationship, are not of the "if that PURPLE FLOATY HOMEWRECKER SKANK SHOWS UP I will EXPLODE and SCREAM and DIE" or "fjorester divorce" or pretending Yasha doesn't exist persuasion re: this relationship (or for that matter the WELL if Percy dies after 70 years of marriage to Vex and then she's with Keyleth for the rest of her life WE WIN type of person either). Like, honestly, there was a post advocating for a breakup, but I think it included within it an argument that they reunite after some time apart, and that's kind of the mood. I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed. There's no ship war to be had. I don't dislike the ship because of competition or some fundamental dislike of the characters, and I honestly would like to be able to like it, and the path for it to not suck would have been immensely simple. That path even still exists, though with every week it grows narrow and less smooth and far more awkward, but I think it will require a pretty serious out of game conversation that as far as I know hasn't happen, and I am not holding my breath given the lack of movement.

That's why it's a curse: the generic form of this curse would be "may your ship become canon prematurely, with with only one person really invested, and that person not actually prepared for it or expecting it, and may it have virtually no moments and exist in a very plot-heavy work where it is almost certainly going to be largely out of focus, after the groundwork when things were quieter was never laid, and may it be so close to being good but consistently miss the opportunities for that to happen."

Just to recap the issues, stripping away all the past snark:

It's never really felt like these were two people who had been best friends for two years. They've always felt like friends of circumstance - like people you meet the first week of college and kind of go around with so as not to be alone, or the only other person your age on your street. Because they were both extremely lonely they clung to each other...but they really don't actually connect with each other much in conversation other than just kind of blandly repeating how much they mean to each other and never showing it. They have no real boundaries or limits with each other, likely because of that fear of being alone, but they aren't exploring that in a Heavenly Creatures or Thoroughbreds kind of way either. There's virtually no sense of history - no inside jokes, no shared experiences prior to Zhudanna except for one throwaway line that, like many of their interactions, fell flat. Like...I don't actually think that it's bad to aim for a platonic female friendship and end up with an F/F ship but like. Beau and Jester had a great platonic female friendship that happened to also include Beau's brief crush. Imogen and Laudna didn't even sell me on them being friends, let alone lovers. They have always felt like oddly clingy roommates. Their respective interactions with quite literally every other PC - few of which I find romantic and many of which I find explicitly not romantic - all feel like they have more depth. Orym is explicitly not attracted to either of them and they've both had more meaningful and honest moments with him. Pun unintended but they both felt infinitely more alive during the party split when they couldn't just go to their dull gray comfort zone of each others' meaningless repetitive affirmations.

Zooming into that lack of boundaries and conflict, there's no arc. Once characters get together often the conflict resolves, but there needs to be a build to that point, and we simply don't have that. The two points where this could have happened were: the gnarlrock fight, had it actually played out, could have led to a deepening of the relationship and some honestly and character development but due to what I am again interpreting as fear of losing the other to the point of never addressing any of these points of friction, it just resumed the status quo. Similarly, as I mentioned, Laura flat out said she went in expecting to be rejected. I think that story would have won me over. I think that if Laudna had rejected her, and Imogen had to grapple with that (and, by extension, Laudna's justified anger and trauma from the Team Issylra didn't disappear into thin air) and they spend some time actually figuring out who they are as individuals and Laudna lets herself be more than a validation machine who pushes her emotions down, and then eventually they come back around to each other? I'd be unbelievably on board. And you can go back, to my posts and others, in which we were pretty harsh on the fanon cottage cheese (yes, I am going to try to make this happen) version but said "I trust Laura and Marisha to do this in a way that is interesting" and then they straight-up didn't.

Obviously this has the potential to change - I even think the next episode is finally a case of maybe bringing all the Delilah stuff to a much needed head which in turn might introduce something into the relationship - but man it's been a whole lot of nothing since they kissed. I think Laura's initiated every single conversation, as mentioned Laudna can't even reciprocate 5 minutes of dancing on a ghost pirate ship without wandering off, and they didn't even bother to take watch together.

Something I keep going back to, and which ties into the above, is Brennan Lee Mulligan's whole discussion of how important character creation is to story. The thing is, these characters were created as close friends. Why does this feel so lacking? Like...why do Kima and Allura, two NPCs, feel like they have more weight? Why did the platonic relationship of Molly and Yasha, for which Ashley wasn't even present, feel like it actually was a friendship of 8 months? Sam and Liam came up with an entire system of grifts! Why is literally the only detail we have from the time between leaving Gelvaan and the time arriving in Jrusar is that at some point Imogen and Laudna saw someone with nipple tassles, and that came up once, like 60 episodes ago? Why are people so frequently sold on say, Loquatius/Laerryn, which had less than 24 hours of gameplay over a single night in-game? Why does every single Circle of Needle and Thread member relationship feel more real? Why were Aabria and Travis able to convincingly play ex-lovers in a handful of episodes despite Aabria deliberately surprising him? Like...I am not saying preparation wasn't done, because it very well might have been, but it's not coming through at all and plenty of other people have managed to get across an existing friendship or relationship in a fraction of the time, within the same campaign, so it's not that the plot is moving too fast for it. And again, if prep wasn't done, or if it's not coming across, that's really fixable, but it hasn't been fixed. I think of the 4SD episode where, five or six episodes later, Marisha and Laura still hadn't talked about the relationship and it's like...yeah. We can tell. Literally a two hour trip to a cafe would fix this but god I don't think there's been one.

Anyway, obviously this was an incredibly popular ship, but it's honestly slowed down noticeably since going canon because...it's not that great, and there's not much content in canon. I think a big appeal of the ship was the anticipation and the fanon and now that it's canon...I suspect a lot of people are quietly realizing that actually yeah this is kind of all it is, at least for now, and something is going to have to happen to bring about a change.

And I hope so too - I joke about being a hater, and I am very much a critic...but this really is the realization of that post about being more of a dismayer than a hater. Laura's past two ships are probably my favorites, and Beauyasha is high up there, and even as Vaxleth isn't really up my alley it's sweet and it makes sense and has a lot of great moments. It really would not take a lot of work to make this ship good or at least okay and not...nothingness, but it does take some, and I haven't seen it.

#answered #Anonymous #cr tag #long post

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horizon-verizon · 3 months ago

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Twilight "Mates"

Have you ever wondered what the deal was with the Twilight movies and books having their vampire couples be called "mates"? Well, they aren't exactly soulmates.

I've had this information with me for literal years. I can forget what I had for lunch, but not this apparently. Now it's your turn to share in my misery.

For those that don't know, vampires in Twilight are not at all like the traditional, erotically charged vampires of modern popular media.

Like humans, vampires in Twilight can have many partners or have monogamous relationships but they cannot "break up" with their lovers and move on to new ones like humans can. At least not psychologically and truthfully enough to be in "real", new relationships. Vampire love-grief is a state or emotion they can't "forget" bc they literally cannot "forget" anything, and that's one of many unsettling things about Twilight vampires. which is why they never give up until the murderer of their mate is dead themselves, or if they are like Victoria, whoever they love the most or anything similar to their own sort of love, is dead. Either way, vampires will likely take their revenge. Vampires are forever stuck in the psychological state/personality they had right before they were turned. So they don’t respond to change all, and they really don’t need to except in special circumstances that require it, so they’re even less inclined to be psychologically adaptive. Only falling in love has the influence to significantly change them. As Meyer makes it.

Because Meyer makes it that vampire’s enhancements apply to absolutely everything.

Twilight is a romance fantasy, not a vampire tale, but there is still a marked difference to how vampires versus humans form attachments, including their romantic ones, that all comes from their particular brand of "vampirism". The vampire lore is meant to build into and support the relationship of the main couple: Bella Swan and Edward Cullen. AND how vampires form lasting romantic connections are majorly inspired by Mormon celestial marriage and the exaltation principles.

In Stephenie Meyer’s world, Bella and Edward are technically soulmates and Edward in Midnight Sun claims that Alice/Jasper and Rosalie/Emmett are, too. Other vampire couples don't seem to have the Cullen "privilege" or state of being soulmates who were drawn together emotionally, though:

AroxSulpicia

AthenodoraxCauis

AmunxKebi

JamesxVictoria

Descriptions:

Aro basically arranges his own mating by courting Sulplicia This clearly is not a spontaneous or freefall progression we'd imagine for how a bond b/t soulmates.

He and Caius lock up their mates so they could avoid the same debilitating grief and vulnerability that Marcus has. It is not necessarily for their wives’ sake.

Back in ancient Egypt when he was worshipped as a god, Amun picked Kebi out of all his slaves.

James had two main reasons to stop trying to kill Victoria when he hunted her down: he wasn’t able to AND he saw she'd useful. He later sees himself as having “won” anyway because now she’s with him forever by falling for him. To me, he considers their relationship to be him “owning” her and her gift, both useful for when he needs to get the hell out of Dodge.

These particular relationships reveal feelings and circumstances of ownership and selfishness, especially on the men’s part.

If soulmate relationships are supposed to be mutually compulsory between the two people, why the emotional incongruencies, power imbalances, and clear rationalization that goes into how most of the shown Twilight pairings are formed?

And If someone is able to choose a romantic partner based on what they perceive are convenient and the motivation weren't pure-hearted or emotionally-driven...doesn’t it negate the one essential part of soulmateship? That someone out there is absolutely the best romantic option and the perfect match for you even when you didn’t choose them, and they were metaphysically given for both of your happiness?

At the same time, vampires can never forget their lover nor lose the memories of them, nor can those memories lose their sharpness, clarity and intensity. Makenna found herself still in love with Charles even after her first year as a newborn so she went back for him and turned him. He just so happened to still be in love with her after that year. Marcus literally can never forget how he feels about Didyme, nor can he feel less about her than when they first met or when they first acknowledged each other as their “person”.

Soulmates (as a trope) have been depicted as anything from emotional/psychological prisons to psychologically safe havens. Sometimes both depending on the actual pairing’s dynamics, the action of the plot, and the themes of the story.

I think that the “both” sometimes happens in the romantic vision of Twilight when it comes to vampire mates.

This “both” still belies the very idea of a soulmate: that this one person is the best, inevitable, perfect, and only romantic option for one other person.

If only one pairing are definitely true and real soulmates (as Twilight claims Bella/Edward are) and most of the others are circumstantial first-come-first-serves, can we really claim that mates in Twilight are definitively a destined soulmate? Or that soulmates even exist in the world of Twilight?

Instead, Twilight vampires experience another take/revision of the soulmates trope.

THEREFORE: Twilight vampire mates are not supposed to be ideal nor true “soulmates” like those proposed by Plato and those portrayed in media ever since.

There are no soulmates in Twilight. Not in either the "purest" nor original meaning of that word.

Instead, as a vampire, calling your "forever" romantic partner your “mate” is a both linguistic phenomenon and a narrative device that describes and realizes the potency, doggedness, and persistence that characterize how Twilight vampires love their "mates".

Meyer has her vampires use the term "mate" because:

Outside of the U.S. and in the U.K., the “mate” part of “soulmate” can be associated with the same word used for someone’s platonic companion or acquaintance. But in the U.S., it's used in with a scientific connotation--particularly observing nonhuman animals--. Thus it is regarded as too formal to seriously use in one’s casual day-to-day in the U.S., or it’s considered way too British and people who do use it casually do it either to be facetious or it's become a habit.

Meyer wanted to further distinguish vampires from humans and used their more animalistic, bestial qualities (their instincts to devour and attack) to characterize them as having “mates”. Paralleling them to nonhuman animals, which again, refers to how researchers and those taking care of the animals call their reproductive partners their “mate”. ironic since vampire women and girls cannot birth vampire or vampire hybrid offspring.

Twilight vampires dissociate themselves from humans, so of course they’d have a different term for their “important” lovers.

The term--or the idea behind the term--has been used in the vampire world of Twilight since before many vampires existed (Aro and Cauis) and I imagine that vampires would say, “why bother changing it now?” Unless it was a “recent” term, but no evidence suggests that.

Vampires canonically themselves don’t “change” values, philosophies, or mindsets without there being an intense catalyst, the strongest of which Meyer makes romantic (BellaxEdward) or very quasi-familial love (Tanya, Irina, Kate, and Sasha).

Soulmates, as an idea, are supposed to be nonchanging and unavoidable, or “constant”, permanent, and position two people together inevitably. The word “mate“ illustrates the circumstance of not being able to change/display a “persistence” of the bond being out of the control of the singular vampire. They cannot determine their own romantic feelings but it's because they themselves cannot "change" (no matter how slippery the substance this is under closer inspection, that's the lore we're working with). The persistence associated with the nonhuman animal mate-bond and with any sort of social bond--human or nonhuman facilitates.

And following the assumption being made about nonhuman animals collectively being more creatures of instinct than humans are, like nonhuman animals Twilight vampires are also creatures of mostly instinct. They are “slaves” to their own instincts so that they often lose control and break things and people around them if they don’t practice not to.

So finally, the word “mate” in the Twilight saga seems to be an associative term to express the reality of being a Twilight vampire in love.

Irina quite literally is willing to kill and die for Laurent, a person who didn’t like her as much as she liked him because she will never be able to forget Laurent nor the times they spent together and will always feel the pain of losing him with the same intensity as the first time of losing him.

Love in Twilight appears to be perilous and futile in the sense that it regularly makes vampires risk themselves in foolish ventures to ruin those who killed their mates. Yet (emotionally as well as thematically/symbolically) love for vampires is also necessary.

It both is one of only ways they get any sort of meaning or emotional satisfaction/compensation for their changeless lives. Yet it can easily become the cause of near self-destructive revenge missions that involve other vampires, perpetuating cycles of violence.

E) Mormonism

Meyer has Twilight vampires’ culture (and the central romance) centering itself around overlaps of love and danger when the stakes are desolation and eternal loneliness or loss of autonomy/power. However, if one is also familiar with Meyer’s loyalty to her Mormon faith and the Mormon principles of exaltation and eternal/”celestial” marriages, I think they’d notice that these two principles inform and provide the structure for both vampire matings and falling in the best kind of love.

Exaltation is a principle that:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) [teaches and believes in] that mankind can reach the highest level of salvation, to eternally live in God's presence, continue as families, become 'gods' or like God, create worlds, and have spirit children over which they will govern (Wiki).

So exaltation is when you become like God, you become "eternal" and live forever. Because you ha e died and have become literally closer to God. However, it is t enough to just die and go to heaven to be metaphysically/psychologically close to God.

Celestial marriages and sealings between family members--two requirements for exaltation--ensure that the marriage and the family are preserved after death until all the persons are in heaven together as “gods”.

And having children is a huge prerequisite for starting the type of families that religious Mormons seem to believe will bring them closer to God. Sexual reproduction/procreation is understood as a godly power because it provides the means for a devout to be like the creative God himself. God who made Adam and Eve and subsequently all of humanity. God who instructed Adam and Eve to go out and "multiply".

Adam and Eve took the apple from the tree to become more like God and to live in an “eternal relationship” (Weiss142) with God, each other, and their kids. The result, according to Mormons (including the LDS), is that humans struggle to triumph over their fallen state/human nature same term the “natural man”, who isn’t wicked so much as separate and alienated from God....but in practice is imagined as truly bad and wicked. Religious Mormons believe(d) the Joseph Smith (the 1830 Mormon founder) saw and understood all this reading of Adam and Eve in his first visions and wrote it into the Book of Mormon, which al provides the justification of exaltation and celestial marriages, etc.

Vampires in Twilight are very powerful due to venom and are like gods in the DC universe/Superman kind of way, but can’t procreate sexually--instead they have changeless lives and create other vampires usually through violence and carelessness. So they are both like gods but aren’t, possessing also the “natural man” state with their “bestiality”. They are, like Superman, very emotionally detached from humans and even from other vamps. They lack this “godly” power of procreation that humans and that Rosalie envies.

However, Bella gets to have true, valid, the “best” eternal life: a celestial marriage with Edward and having an immortal child that she, like Jesus and the perfect Mormon, put her body and very existence at risk for.

In the End

The idea of mates in Twilight is reserved for vampires and the nature of mating follows the soulmate trope without actually claiming to be the trope itself.

Mates are not soulmates. It is a shallower re-invention that heavily depends on context and how language forms in a society to describe a social phenomenon set up by a steadfast interpretation of the reality of being a falling in love or entering a romantic relationship as a vampire.

To repeat myself, when vampires take or recognize a mate, it’s not because that is the one and only person the universe/higher being grants them as a fit partner, so to speak. That person isn’t a mystical other half that completes them so much as the first and only person they fell deeply in love with or wanted to be so intimate with. First come, first serve.

And the phrase above only applies when the person in love is a vampire in Twilight because it is an conventional, semi-arbitrary social term. Just how “spouse”, “girlfriend”, “lover”, “friends with benefits” are all social terms to label and describe a person who is meant to be one’s prioritized sexual/romantic partner.

So, to repeat myself, Twilight vampires are forever stuck in the psychological state/personality they had right before they were turned. Falling in love has the particular influence to significantly "change" them. As Meyer rules her lore. If they’re single and meet someone they eventually fall so deeply in love with (or become infatuated with), then that person will literally be the only person who could possibly romantically satisfy them. Ever.

In Twilight, mating can be either a decision (or coercion) or a circumstance or a mixture of both. It depends on the person’s intentions and desires and external circumstances. They must be in the right place at the right time to even be able to connect with others, as vampires are also solitary, very territorial and very violent. Still, humans similarly experience forming and getting into relationships circumstantially.

#not asoiaf #twilight #vampires #twilight vampires #romance #soul mates

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vacantgodling · 4 months ago

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I somehow did not realize Red, Hel, and Arden were a polycule lmao but now I have to know even more

1 - How many members are in the polycule? How are they related to each other? Feel free to draw a flow chart. 6 - Where do each of the members land on the “solo poly” to “entwined” spectrum? 7 - Where do each of the members land on the “free agent” to “community oriented” spectrum? 18 - What are their “vetoes” for potential metamours? Do they have any at all? 20 - How do each of the members deal with jealousy? How intense is the feeling? 21 - How intense does each member feel compersion toward their partners and metamours?

~ @void-botanist

haha well, they are but they "aren't" ... mostly because of plot issues BUT technically speaking they are. its complicated lmao but basically they are but arden feels like they can't be because he's a prince. ANYWAY tho:

1 - How many members are in the polycule? How are they related to each other? Feel free to draw a flow chart.

their relationship dynamic kinda looks like this (sorry this is hard to read):

6 - Where do each of the members land on the “solo poly” to “entwined” spectrum? && 7 - Where do each of the members land on the “free agent” to “community oriented” spectrum?

18 - What are their “vetoes” for potential metamours? Do they have any at all? && 20 - How do each of the members deal with jealousy? How intense is the feeling?

red has no real hard vetoes for any metamours, the only requirement that she has is that whoever hel is with (because she's entirely closed on her side) that they make hel happy and that hel seeks to prtect his happiness. she's very protective of him and she will sack anyone who makes him feel like shit. however, this poses an issue because unlike hel's other fuck buddies or nebulous people but he's in love with arden and arden makes him happy but arden's struggles with duty, honor and his own feelings makes hel sad, but red knows that hel would be sadder if arden wasn't in his life so she kind of deals with him. she doesn't really get jealous in a traditional way? when things first begin plot wise she does have some minor feelings of jealousy towards arden bc of how hel looks for his validation (hel and arden have known each other for longer technically) BUT it usually manifests in a lot of red's self-hating tendencies. after she and hel kind of establish their main qpr, all that jealousy melts because she trusts him. but she's still not keen on hel dealing with someone that makes him feel a way.

hel feels a bit selfish but he's honestly glad that red doesn't have any interest in anyone else because he kind of wouldn't be able to handle the idea of red having metamours on her side. he definitely chases arden and others to get that sexual gratification and traditional romantic sentiment (mostly with arden) but frfr if red was a romantic/sexual person then they'd honestly probably be mainly monogamous with hel having a free pass or two. he absolutely adores red and wants to keep her to himself LMAO but he never says that aloud-even though red would absolutely be fine with that. on the side of arden, he does have a difficult time accepting that he probably won't ever be an important or fundamental fixture in his life. unfortunately for himself, he's deeply in love with arden (not as much as he is with red to be fair but still). the only thing that he can handle mentally is arden having a wife because of the whole prince duty thing, not that he'd be happy about it but he understands that that would be the best case scenario for their relationship. they've had a few arguments regarding arden musing about having different sexual partners or trying women out to get used to the idea of "his duty" but hel doesn't like the idea of arden doing this out of obligation and not because it makes him happy. though arden always tells him to fuck off because of his whole vibe of being a free agent etc etc. hel isn't really a "jealous" person, he's just always been a bit insecure about where he and arden stand regarding their relationship so he's clingier than perhaps is warranted.

and after that entire explanation you'd think i'd say that arden isn't a jealous person? INCORRECT. he's the most jealous one out of the three of them and he feels it the most intensely. despite his knowing hel for longer, the fact that hel went and established a primary relationship with red and not him does hurt (and not that hel didn't try mind you, arden is just so hot and cold) and for a long time he was sort of unfairly jealous of red who was literally just vibing. he's also generally jealous of the fact that hel has the ability and privilege to just focus on himself and his own happiness. he doesn't have to think about what would be best for their country and how the nobility want him to behave whether it be as their pawn or their ruler, and because of that, arden is constantly at a crossroads of what to do and kind of takes it out on hel. that's partially why i put "queer at night" on his side of things because the only time he's honest with himself and when he and hel are anything of a semblance of a couple is under the cover of darkness. he isn't really in love with the fact that hel fucks other people either, but he feels like he can't butt in because he's already told hel to fuck off about his own exploits so how can he expect any different from him? he does eventually warm up to red and begrudgingly agrees that red does make hel a better person and in a perfect world where he wasn't a prince, he'd probably want their relationship to just be the three of them. so he keeps his opinions to himself mostly and is just grumpy a lot of the time.

21 - How intense does each member feel compersion toward their partners and metamours?

red feels compersion pretty heavily whenever hel goes out on the town and fucks someone because whenever he's happy, she's happy. because she also does care for arden (kind of, when he's not being an ass) she is happy for him and hel as well because they do make each other happy when again. arden isn't being dumb and hel isn't being insecure.

hel WOULD feel compersion if arden did actually find a wife that made his princely duties bearable and if he actually sought out situations for his own happiness, but bc arden is mostly a man of self sabotage, he can't bring himself to be happy whenever arden is doing ridiculous shit.

arden feels it begrudgingly. he slowly warms up to hel being happy with red and red becomes important o him slowly. he actively hates whatever random people hel goes to fuck tho. they can die in a ditch for all he cares pff.

#s: rdof #i hope that answers any of these questions PFF

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alicent-vi-britannia · 11 months ago

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5 reasons why Kagino doesn't work (and 3 reasons why Kalulu does)

I was planning to prepare the small analysis of the final scene of the last episode of the first season, but, given the latest events that have occurred on my other Code Geass page, I decided to postpone it and work on a publication that I had planned for the future: explaining why Kagino is the most forced ship in Code Geass, besides Lelouch and CC in the infamous movie Lelouch of the Aberration (you will know it as Lelouch of the Resurrection). Also why Kagino is one of the worst ships in Code Geass. Please note that I use the term ship because this is a fandom pairing. Gino was never a love interest for Kallen and vice versa, according to official material (including the series).

1.It's a forced ship. This ship was invented by the Newtype magazine, which was ProCluClu, after they tried to do the same with Xingke and the ship had no support. What is the need to promote this ship? Kallen was becoming too close to Lelouch for the liking of CluClu fans, so it had to get her rival out of the way, and what better way for her heart to have an owner other than Lelouch? Actually, there could be other ways, but even the CluClu shippers saw the chemistry and sexual tension between Lelouch and Kallen. She was a threat, from their point of view. I have emphasized this because ""coincidentally"" the CluClu shippers are the only ones who pair Kallen with Gino (yes, I'm seeing that they are realizing that they are losing credibility due to their bias, so they are trying to hide what they are pretending they are Shirlulu or Kalulu shippers; they clearly don't understand what they are doing wrong, right?). The other 0.0002% are people who ship them because they believe that CluClu is canon and Kallen is alone and deserves someone to take care of her heart, but, as Miley Cyrus said in her powerful song, Kallen can buy herself flowers, ask herself to dance, telling herself things that only she understands, holding her own hand and loving herself and being happy.

Kallen is a romantic interest of Lelouch. You can see their relationship develop and take on a romantic nature as the episodes go by in R2. There is a narrative construction. Unfortunately, I won't be able to track their relationship here since that requires a separate analysis.

2. The "other reasons" that accompany this ship are superficial. The ship background that I expressed above is the real reason. There are no other compelling reasons to pair Kallen and Gino apart from the fact that they are both handsome, the same age, they exchanged a few words, and they are Knightmares pilots. Still, for CluClu shippers, those reasons are enough to prove that they are "soulmates." It's complete nonsense. You have work colleagues or study partners and your mother or your friends or your teacher or your boss aren't matching you with any of them, right? Furthermore, Suzaku also meets these requirements and no one is pairing him with Kallen (for the record, I find this ship interesting; but I don't think it works in the context of the series either).

My point is that just because two people are contemporary, attractive and (more or less) doing the same job doesn't mean that they are each other's ideal partner or that love will arise between them. Love is a spontaneous and free thing, which brings me to my next point…

3. Gino and Kallen have no romantic attraction for each other or sexual tension. The biggest "evidence" there is in favor of this ship and surely what started this nonsense was a comment Gino makes in episode 9. But, far from demonstrating a romantic interest or sexual attraction for Kallen, it shows that the fandom has problems of reading comprehension. Let's see, read the comment: "Anya: This is the ace of the Black Knights. The pilot of the Guren. Gino: Yes, the one from before. She is much prettier than the wanted poster of her. "That's my kind of woman!" What does this tell us? 1. That Gino recognizes that Kallen is pretty. 2. That the type of women Gino is attracted to are pretty. There is a big difference between "I like women like you" and "I like you." Just because you appreciate a person's beauty doesn't automatically mean that you like him, that is orthodox and childish thinking (this makes me think of men with fragile masculinity who refuse to admit that another man seems handsome to them because they think they would look like homosexuals and they have been made to believe that masculinity and homosexuality don't go together). Even more important is Kallen's reaction, when he makes the comment: she just turns away. She doesn't smile or blush. Zero interest.

This is very different from what happens between Lelouch and Kallen. She does react to Lelouch's comments, no matter how minor they may be. Like this double entender in episode 5. "Kallen: Are you talking like Zero or Lelouch right now? Lelouch: It's not like everyone knows about our relationship, right? Kallen * blushes *: Stop saying weird things like that, okay?"

Just a few days ago I read a phrase on Twitter (or X) that said that the moment preceding the kiss was even more valuable than the kiss itself. That's where you find the so-called sexual tension and Lelouch and Kallen had two moments like that. Three, if you want to tell the dialogue that preceded the kiss in episode 22. I will go into more detail about the kiss and the two almost kisses of Lelouch and Kallen the day I'm going to talk about those things from theory. In fact, I don't want to stop to examine the romantic relationship between Lelouch and Kallen like I said.

Gino and Kallen never flirted or had intimate moments. At most, they only poked each other in the last Picture Drama, but it was a display of friendly rivalry. No other thing. Pretending that that never happened, there is one moment in particular that I want us to review, as I consider it crucial to explain why this ship doesn't work:

4. Gino didn't accept Kallen because of who she is. At some point in episode 17, Gino is looking for Suzaku and went to visit Kallen in her cell believing he was there. Instead of leaving, he shows her the photo album he was originally going to show Suzaku and they start talking about him (did I tell you that it makes more sense that Gino would be more romantically interested in Suzaku than in Kallen? I'll tell you again, so). The conversation changes and Gino starts talking about Kallen.

"Gino: I understand that you are half Britannian and half Japanese, right? If you chose the name Stadtfeld instead of Kouzuki, you could have a good life, right? Even become one of the Knights of the Round if you have such ambitions. Kallen: Is this going anywhere? Gino: What I mean is, wouldn't you like to come back to us, Kallen?" What is wrong here? That Gino doesn't understand nor is interested in understanding why Kallen chose to embrace the cause of the Japanese and the Black Knights. Instead, Gino brazenly advises her to abandon everything and join them since life is much more comfortable fighting on Britannia's side (this is the kind of flippant comment that comes from the mouth of a person who is in a position of privilege, if you ask me).

Gino doesn't realize that Kallen's motivations for fighting are tied to her principles and ideals. Therefore, this is like asking Kallen to give up who she is: an ally of justice, a patriotic woman, and a defender of freedom. This reflects a clear disinterest on Gino's part and this is a problem because you can't love someone without knowing them and accepting them for who they are.

This is in stark contrast to Lelouch. While Gino asks Kallen to turn her back on her beliefs, her values, and the people she cares about (the Japanese and her family), Lelouch prefers to push Kallen away from him rather than force her to give up her principles and her life for him because, for Lelouch, Kallen's well-being and integrity are much more important than being together. This is the true definition of love.

5. Gino and Kallen don't share principles. A couple doesn't have to be two conjoined twins. They may have different tastes, ways of thinking, preferences, interests, hobbies… If they truly love each other, they will learn to adapt to each other because one doesn't really change who they are for another person. But a couple needs to have, at least, the same values, ideals and life plans (I would add, also certain beliefs). Otherwise, it will be difficult for this relationship to prosper.

Gino is a Knight of the Round and has been an active collaborator in the conquest and colonization of independent nations. He clearly agrees with Britannia's expansionist policy. He has no problem with imperialism or colonialism. Kallen, on the other hand, belongs to the largest insurgent group fighting against Britannia and fighting in the name of freedom, justice and equality. She detests colonialism and imperialism due to her own experience, so she disagrees with expansionism. These discrepancies would prevent Gino and Kallen from having anything (that is, they wouldn't even have been friends).

Only Gino showed some empathy with Kallen, when Lelouch killed the Emperor and usurped the throne, claiming that he finally understood what it feels like to have another come to take power illegitimately and arbitrarily. However, a coup d'état is not the same as colonialism and, of course, this doesn't mean that Gino will change his principles. Only he's going to have a just reason to fight (finally). It would have been better if Gino had apologized to Kallen, but that was an act that required a great deal of effort.

Lelouch, for his part, is a rebel at heart like Kallen. He may have lied about many things, but he genuinely believes in the ideals that he has preached as Zero and Kallen welcomed them as her own because they fit her values, which are no different from Lelouch's. It's not a coincidence. There is a small parallel between the dramatic situation of the Japanese and that of Lelouch and Nunnally. They were all dispossessed of what they had, including their identity, and forced to live as strangers in their land. Therefore, Lelouch and Kallen are more compatible. Even if they hadn't met in Shijunku, sooner or later their paths would cross over their hatred of Britannia, their contempt for the empire's Social Darwinist ideology, and their desire to change the world (well, this desire would germinate in Kallen once she met to Lelouch who, in turn, would obtain it as soon as he received the Geass).

The same can be said about Lelouch's other ships, by the way. Shirley wants to be a loving wife and have a happy family, CC wants to die (at the end of the series, she is focused on living every small moment of her life to the fullest just like Jamie Foxx's character in Soul) and Suzaku wants to change.the system from within. I won't enter the swampy terrain of reviewing the ideals and values of these characters. It's not my goal.

In conclusion, Gino and Kallen don't stick with glue or tape. Lelouch is emerging as a more worthy suitor, despite everything. And, therefore, Karen-chan only has eyes for him. Kalulu is better.

PS: of course, a fanfic could correct all of these things. But I don't think it even exists and I'm focusing only on the series, too.

#why kalulu is the best ship #kallen kozuki #kallen stadtfeld #lelouch #lelouch vi britannia #lelouch lamperouge #kallen #lelouch x kallen #kalulu #kagino #code geass: hangyaku no lelouch #code geass: lelouch of the rebellion #code geass #gino weinberg #gino x kallen #kallen x gino #kallen x lelouch #lulukare

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skinzchoerim · 10 months ago

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I keep wanting to rant about give me the lOve bitxx, because I can't be the only one who finds this song inherently contradictory, right? Everything is at odds with itself, including the actions and thoughts of the narrator. I can't put my finger on his motivations, on which lines are sincere and insincere, and it's giving me a headache.

I'm always conflicted whether I should approach their songs about women with a queer lense or not. It makes sense to dig deeper into angel and the instinct part 1 songs where religious guilt ties in nicely with the queer themes, but obviously they have plenty of songs about women that don't require a look into the subtext and can be taken as what they are on the surface, aka bi anthems. In the case of this song, I think it makes the most sense to approach it through the lense of what they can't say, and the amount of internal conflict here feels very queercoded to me. On the one hand, it seems like it's from the perspective of someone who cares about the person he's singing about and is aware he wouldn't be a good partner because of his emotional issues, so he warns her not to get too close. On the other hand, it feels like the narrator isn't sure he's attracted to women and he feels annoyed with this woman who keeps clinging to him, but he admits he doesn't actually want her to leave, likely because he wants to maintain a veneer of "normalcy".

The sound of the song itself is sweet and innocent, but the title is passive aggressive. He demands to be given love even though the majority of the song focuses on pushing her away, and calling her a bitch comes across as resentment. The lyric beginning the song and every chorus is "don't make me pull the trigger", which is a very manipulative threat - he puts the blame for wanting to hurt her on her. As @atozmoongazer kindly pointed out to me, the imagery in the chorus is that of a holdup - freeze, give me your treasure, don't make me pull the trigger. The treasure in this case would likely be the titular love, and taking into account the rest of the song, he's not very keen on reciprocating it or treating it gently.

Her covering his mouth when he's talking could be read in two ways (once again thank you @atozmoongazer for pointing out to me what I missed - it's a reference to Yoojung's mouth being covered in the teaser, therefore a pretty important line). One interpretation is more literal, that she interrupts him, makes him feel like his words don't matter, maybe she prefers to kiss him instead of having a conversation, and all of that on top of the fact that he doesn't like how clingy she is results in him feeling bad and resentful in this relationship. The other interpretation is that he feels silenced whenever he's around her, and he blames her for his own inability to express what's on his mind. She could just be the scapegoat for everything and everyone else that's making him feel this way, all the heteronormativity and homophobia that surrounds him.

Even the lyrics that mention constantly thinking about her face and feeling strange could be read in two ways. The obvious one is that you normally think a lot about the person you like, but I know from experience how confusing it can be when you constantly think about a person you know you're supposed to like, but aren't sure you do. I spent a lot of time in the past going back and forth between "If I actually liked this person, I would know it and be certain of it, and since I'm constantly questioning whether my feelings are real or not, that means I clearly don't like them" and "I'm constantly thinking about them and wondering whether I like them or not, therefore I must like them since I've got this weird obsession with them". When he talks about hiding his feelings, playing dumb and feeling numb because of it, on the surface it might refer to making sure his romantic feelings don't show, but to me it feels much more like a continuation of the lines about feeling broken when they're near each other and continuing to put up with it.

Basically, I think this internal conflict and confusion are an intentional feature of the song, similarly to skinz. The narrator wants to hide behind a veneer of a sweet-sounding boy group love song and make sure you don't understand him just as much as he doesn't understand himself, but lying to the listener about everything makes him feel too silenced. Since he can't hold back all the negative feelings he's bottling up, it's easy to look through the cracks and catch a glimpse of everything waiting to pour out of him, and end up feeling just as conflicted and confused as he does.

#i hope this makes sense #it's late and i know I'll probably have another revelation after posting it #but i wanna share this now #onlyoneof #onlyoneof theory #things I can't say lOve

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lanshappycorner · 10 months ago

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Not to sound insane at 6 in the morning but you know if I were delusional and imagine 10051 dating it would probably start in their uni days again (post arcobaleno arc)

Because I can imagine after everything is over, Byakuran asking Shoichi if he wanted to be more than friends and Shoichi's just like "aren't we best friends already ?" And Byakuran is like "I think some would call what I'm referring to as Lovers" and Shoichi is like "Wwhat? No way." Instant rejection😭😭

I do think they love each other but because they share memories of the future and not the actual experiences, shoichi wouldn't be too eager to get into a relationship (I do think he'd want to say yes really badly because logic says no but his heart says he really really loves byakuran)

I'm pretty sure Byakuran would have already known that though and he was just asking to ask💀 so he's like "then I'll ask you again in a couple of years ^^" and Shoichi's like "will you still even like me in a couple years" because that's a long time...and Byakuran just looks at him as if he said something ridiculous and he just responds so calmly he's like "yeah, I will."

No elaboration nothing he's just completely confident that he will like shoichi and shoichi is just so ??? (Although I think shoichi knows his feelings will grow stronger over time but he's never liked giving into what fate wants anyways </3)

Anyways fast forward they're both in college now and Byakuran casually asks Shoichi again, but this time it's really been years so Shoichi feels like he can agree and it's honestly all really normal

But because both of them have been friends for so long and have only briefly considered being lovers, the transition is awkward like both of them end up in a room alone together and byakuran is like "is this where we kiss" and shoichi is like "uh.....but why" and byakuran is like "I honestly cannot tell you idk either its the vibes..." (<neither of them understand how any of this works)

It would take some time and I think Byakuran would be the more affectionate out of the two first and it takes a while until Shoichi realizes that they're ACTUALLY in a relationship because suddenly Byakuran is holding him in a more intimate way and they are CUDDLING and KISSING and its so WEIRDDD

Shoichi asks Byakuran how he's just so natural at this and he's like "I'm not a natural at this, Sho-chan, but I have been holding back for the past 4 years if that means anything" and shoichi gets so flustered but he would be lying if he said he hasn't felt the undeniable urge to kiss byakuran these past 4 years either </33

Also since I'm on the topic I think Byakuran would have the worst time coping with wanting Shoichi for himself because Byakuran can in fact be a . Very very selfish person but I think he'd want to respect Shoichi's wishes especially during their kind of situationship + the beginning of their relationship

Like he's just supposed to be so calm while all these people r hanging out with shoichi (<jealous) and it was even worse when shortly after they started dating Shoichi borrowed his shirt because he stayed over for a night to have a study session and like.

When Byakuran saw him in the Boyfriend Clothes he just had to laugh hysterically face covered and everything and Shoichi is just like "what's wrong with you do I look that bad💀" and byakuran is like "no you look amazing sho-chan but I am laughing because of the self restraint required for me to not kiss you right now so can you take a step back" and shoichi is just ajdjsifsndj?????

ALSO ALSO ALSO sorry for rambling last note but I think Shoichi would have a hard time comprehending that anyone likes him romantically because his self perception is probably not the best but Byakuran is there to prove him otherwise every day without fail .

Anyways that is all thank u for reading all of this if u did. 10051 real

#first thing in the morning i have to be obnoxious abt them sorry everyone #10051posting

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transmascore · 2 years ago

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hiyo

i wanted to ask if you have any advice for overcoming the thought that i cant be a gay trans man because "what makes gay men gay is the fact that they only like dick and not female parts"

(im sorry if thats rather graphic but this is literally the thing stopping me from acceoting myself or transitioning socially or physically)

Something to keep in mind is that orientation is people-based. The reason gay men date other men is because they're attracted to men themselves - the way they present outwardly, the way they speak, the way they wear their hair. Genitals aren't the only or even the main part of the equation (although they can factor in). There's every other aspect about a person to consider.

I'm T4T (trans for trans) so my attraction to men is framed by that lens. I find I'm attracted to patchy facial hair and androgynous voices - things that signal transmasculinity to me. And, for me, it's because I know I will have things in common with these men. We have shared community, shared experiences. I know I can open up to another trans man and that he will understand me. And, aside from that, I do legitimately feel a strong sense of desire and romantic love when I encounter other trans men. It isn't just safety, but a genuine want to be with them.

And gay men, regardless of AGAB, feel pretty much the same way across the board. It's attraction to little details here and there, as well as the entire person, and it's also that sense of relating to one another on the basis of queerness. Knowing that you can be yourself around this person.

Now, sure, men looking for a quick hookup on Grindr aren't in the same headspace as someone looking for an actual relationship. So it's important to keep that in mind. People on hookup apps tend to be rude or chasers (a cis person that fetishizes trans people). But there are also genuine men you'll encounter (regardless of AGAB) that are totally cool with hooking up with a trans guy and aren't weird about it. Everybody's different.

And while some sections of the gay male community can come across as very phallocentric, we (transmascs) have been in those spaces the entire time.

I'll share some gay trans men now.

Billy Lane, who in 1998, WON the Mr. Leather competition:

Lou Sullivan, an activist and author who fought for gay trans men to be recognized by the medical field so we could receive gender affirming care:

Rupert Raj (pansexual rather than gay), who did so many things it's easier for me to just show you than to recap.

Dr. James Berry, an extremely talented surgeon who fought in two wars, was a duelist, and slept with men.

We have always been here, we will always be here, and we are here right now! Even though a lot of our history has been overshadowed and lost to time.

Also, something I tell every transmasc, especially gay transmascs, is this: When we first come out, first realize who we are, we feel very vulnerable. We want to be seen as people. We want to be validated and comforted. Like Pinnochio, we want someone to tell us "you're a real boy." And, often times, trans men will seek out that validation from cis men, because they view them as some higher authority - a gatekeeper of masculinity that will confirm your identity and metaphorically hand you a Man Card. And a lot of trans men get hurt, have their hearts broken, because they're putting all of their stock into this.

But I'm here to deliver you good news: Transness stands on its own, it doesn't require cis men to prop up the pillars. You are just as much of a man as cis guys are, and their opinion of you is irrelevant. It may not sound true right now - we all go through this initial stage, especially if our dysphoria is bad. But you'll get through it - and once you make it out the other side it is incredible. To expedite the process, best thing you can do is surround yourself with trans art and videos and books and friends.

The other thing, too, is that fear of not being loved. Society can have us believe cruel things about ourselves. That we, transmascs, are not worthy of love. That we're somehow inferior. And that just isn't true - there so many happy, partnered trans men out there. Many of them married! Many of them polyamorous with multiple partners! Many of them who have started families, are fathers!

Don't delay your transition - or call off your transition entirely - because you are afraid of what a future partner might think. People date each other for a reason: because they love each other. You want to find someone who will love you for you, unconditionally. And those people ARE out there. A real partner will be supportive of your endeavors, will be happy to see you comfortable in your own skin. Take care of yourself first, and the rest will come. The pieces will fall into place.

In the meantime, to be kind to yourself. Know that you are enough. Know that you are loveable. Know that you are desirable. Know that you have a future. Know that you don't need permission from anyone to be who you are. And know that you belong! Know that you're gay and you're a man and you're trans and that none of these things contradict one another. They weave together like beautiful threads to form the person that is you. And that there are many people like you - always have been. And if anyone is an asshole about it, ignore them.

#asks #anonymous

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just-a-whole-bunch-of-reblogs · 10 months ago

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I'm also aroace and (technically) Christian! And yeah, it can be really difficult sometimes. Aspec people (whether alloace, aroallo, aroace, or something else) face both similar overarching bigotries as the rest of the community, such as invalidation of aspec identities as real and worthy of consideration and understanding, both formal conversion therapy and less formal peer pressure to conform to hetero/cis/allonormative standards, demonization or infantilization, bigotries/marginalization specific to being aspec (like friendships being devalued in favor of romantic relationships and attraction--which leaves many aromantic people isolated and alone), marginalizing relationships that don't fit into specific models, the assumption that being an adult automatically means engaging with or experiencing both romance and sex, and the assumption that everyone is seeking for a (specifically two-person*) marriage, an assumption which carries through not only in words and actions but in economics, law, and home architecture.

(*I say 'specifically two person' here because a lot of the same amatonormativity that hurts and marginalizes aspec people of all kinds also hurts polyamorous people; amatonormativity hurts us all, but especially those who don't want/aren't made for a long-term monogamous partnership.)

I would correct nerdygaymormon here to say that we absolutely face the same general marginalization as other queer people, even if not the same more specific marginalization and bigotry as is directed towards those with queer allosexual orientations such as gay or bisexual people, because of the world we live in; no two queer identities will face exactly the same kind of bigotry, but often those differing bigotries come from the same source.

But back on topic: being queer is hard. Being queer and any flavor of Christian or Christian-adjacent is doubly hard. A lot of other queer people and queer spaces will invalidate your faith or background, thinking that queer people can't be Christian because all Christians are evil and homophobic, or that if you're queer and Christian it must be because you hate yourself for being queer, so it's their job to save you from The Evil Homophobic Hegemonic Religion. It's a very patronizing attitude. And on the other hand, conservative Christians of any flavor often really are queerphobic, and many Christian groups and denominations seek to perpetuate Christian hegemony, and many Christian spaces will, if not reject you outright for being queer, attempt to convert or save you from your queerness. This is also a very patronizing attitude. What do you do, when you have these two incredibly important aspects of yourself, your queerness and your religious/cultural heritage or beliefs, and everyone around you is telling you that you can only choose one or the other, that they're inherently contradictory, that there are only two valid options before you and both of them require cutting out a piece of yourself?

Well, me, I found the third option: I found community with other queer Christians (that were also my flavor of Christian). Because queerness of all kinds has always existed, and therefore queer Christians have existed for as long as Christianity has existed, as nerdygaymormon implies above about Paul. Being queer and Christian of any flavor often involves being attacked on all sides, and it's true that when the institutionalized queerphobia so often found in religious organizations clashes with the queerness of someone who is that religion, either their queerness wins or that person loses, but accepting your queerness and advocating for change, even radical change, does not mean throwing away your identity or the entirety of your faith. You may feel alone, and for good reason, because both Christian and queer communities often erase and overlook the intersection of queerness and Christianity (and that erasure only gets worse with asexual/aromantic/aspec identities because of how much erasure we face in general), but you are not alone. There are people like you. There have always been people like you. That doesn't change just because it's hard to find each other.

As for aspec spaces, I know there are a lot of ace, aro, and aspec-specific blogs here on Tumblr, and I would also recommend the Asexual Visibility and Education Network, aka AVEN, at asexuality.org. Although I haven't spent a lot of time there, it's kind of known as the asexual-and-aromantic space online, and it's a huge part of recent aspec history. Unfortunately, I have no recommendations for in-person/irl gatherings for ace people; the best I can do there is suggest that you look up your local Pride/generally queer events.

What are your thoughts on people who are asexual and/or aromantic and Christian? As an aroace Christian, I often feel very lonely and like I am left out of both the Christian community and the queer community.

Congratulations on figuring out you're both aro and ace. Recognizing the absence of something takes more thought and investigation than it does to recognize the existence of attractions and feelings.

Being aroace is a blessing!

In 1 Corinthians chapter 7, it’s very clear that the apostle Paul personally feels that sex and romance is more trouble than it’s worth and lowkey wishes more people felt the same. I think if he were alive today, he might choose the labels aromantic and asexual.

Paul is also pretty clear that in the eyes of God, it doesn’t matter whether we’re married or unmarried. It’s up to us to decide what works best for us. If you’re ace/aro, great! God has work for you.

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One thing about being aroace is it can be invisible. Unfortunately some queer people don't view aroace people as being part of the LGBT community because generally they don't face the same discrimination and oppression as other queer people. Queer is all sexual and gender identities other than straight and cisgender, and that's why LGBTQIA includes the A specifically for aro and ace.

In the queer communities, there's spaces for gays, lesbians, trans people, but I'm not aware of any specifically for those who are aro or ace, so I'm sure it feels lonely, as though you can come to queer spaces but your aren't seen and celebrated.

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When Christians don't know someone is ace or aro, they adore how well you seem to be at remaining chaste and pure.

But many Christians have such strong negative feelings against the queer community, that they extend those feelings to anyone that is part of this community. It's ridiculous. You are exactly the person they loved until they learned you also describe yourself as ace and aro, nothing is changed about you.

They should accept and love you for your faith and desire to be part of the worship community.

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Much love to you and I hope you find peace and a place where people accept and welcome you as your full authentic self

#asexual #aromantic #aspec #aroace #queer #christianity #queer mormon stuff #being queer and religious is so often like “nice dichotomy IDIOT! what lies outside it?”

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aro-culture-is · 2 years ago

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I accepted my asexuality pretty quickly. The country i live in sees the topic of sex as taboo and its never talked about. NEVER. Its toxic and bad but meh, its the culture. Maybe the reason i never had a problem with it was becauss im asexual.

But realising i might be aro is not. Im struggling with internalized arophobia. Im having identity crisis and existential crisis. And ive heard being aro/ace can be due to trauma? Is that real? Because if it is, lots of things start to make sense about me. Aplatonic aros? Is that a thing too? Ive always felt unfit. Never wanted a friend but seeing everyone in a group or with someone made me feel unworthy and broken from a young age. I don't want a traditional family and i feel like the one i currently am in would've gotten rid of me a long time ago if they could. My dad never kept it a secret how he disliked us, i know my mom sees me as a failure even tho she reassures me, and my brother's world is totally different from me. The few friends i managed to keep throughout the years either gotten on with their lives or found better people. What's the point of living then? Am i even human? How are other aros doing it? Am i aro or just a really shitty person who lost faith in love a long time ago? I need help

hi,

for one, yes - being a-spec can be due to trauma. There's even a microlabel for being aro (caedromantic) or ace (caedsexual) due to trauma.

aplatonic (apl) aros are absolutely a thing!

I'm so very sorry that you've had such a terrible experience with your family. Coming from an emotionally abusive household, I know how much it can completely change how you interact with others. If it is available and mental health services are okay in your country, I'd really recommend seeing a therapist. Even if you don't discuss aromanticism, asexuality, or aplatonicism, it's worth discussing with a professional about the ways you have been affected by the trauma of a family that never seems to accept you.

speaking again as a traumatized individual - as i've worked on my mental health, accepting my trauma, and moving forwards from my trauma, I personally have only grown more capable of accepting myself as aromantic and aplatonic-spectrum. I've learned that my life is my own; I can define what makes me happy in life and seek that, even if others will never understand.

I don't enjoy romantic relationships or living with others - so for me, my ideal future involves planning around living alone and what makes me happiest within that framework. I've considered that I do still get lonely, and that I'd love to have a cat - probably two, since some research seems to indicate cats generally are better adjusted when there are two.

I've thought about how I use my time - I'm disabled and in literal, full-body physical pain 24/7. Going places is an activity that requires me to plan recovery time, so I work especially hard to make my daily living comfortable. I'm currently working on finding little ways to make my life easier - putting meds, food, and water within easy reach of my bed and desk, for example - and learning to allow myself to enjoy those little things.

There's a certain amount of childish glee I'm learning to allow myself to enjoy from small activities. Those, for me, are a primary set of reasons to live. I enjoy my lotions, I eat breakfast for every meal, I lipsync in my bathroom mirror and giggle at my expressions. I learn to live as myself and I learn to see the small joys in it.

This isn't to suggest you aren't trying hard enough to find those joys! I don't think I truly could have done this without anti-depressants, therapy, and supportive friends (friendship is... complicated for me). You will have your own path forwards. I promise that with time and practice, things get better. It's rarely a sudden moment of change. It's often a sensation of taking a deep breath, saying to yourself "I am allowed to feel this way, and I am allowed to do what helps me feel better", and learning to comfort yourself. It's like seeing an echo of your younger self desperately trying not to cry, and realizing that they still exist within you, and you are now also the adult comforting that child, parenting yourself through things your parents never prepared you for.

I really, really hope things improve for you. You deserve to enjoy life. You deserve to not hurt.

#Anonymous #not aro culture #aro #aromantic #actually aro #actually aromantic #apl #ask #mod alexander #suicidal ideation cw #suicide cw #internalized arophobia cw #internalized apl antagonism cw #abuse cw #ask to tag #if there are more cw/tw tags you'd like #this is... rough #i really feel for anon #if anyone can provide additional comments please do so

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thejustmaiden · 3 years ago

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So out of nowhere I was tagged and quoted by a SR shipper for a blog of mine posted in August of last year. Talk about throwback but, hey, gotta appreciate that level of snooping. 😉

Back in the day I actually used to encourage discourse amongst Inuyasha fans- both shippers and antis alike- but I've since realized that it's a lost cause. But for you, @feministmetalgreymon , I'll grant this exception. Just 'cause it's been a while so why the hell not. haha

I want to assure you, however, that nothing you say will ever convince me that Sesshomaru and Rin are meant to be together romantically or that the story intended it so. Nor will you find any validation here. You can ship them for all I care, but please for all that is good and holy while I have your attention try- I mean really try- to understand why it is so many of us Inuyasha fans are so against this pairing in the first place (newsflash: it's not about ship wars), and why we believe a romance between the two of them is completely and utterly out of character.

For those of you interested in reading this, the blog of mine in question that the above shipper mentions in their counter-argument is here for reference. It's titled "Jaken = Rin's Dad?" I'm going to try and keep this short, but I'm also making no such promises. After all, I'm not exactly known for my brevity. haha Now let's get crackin'!

Like you, feministmetalgreymon, did for your recent blog here where you took screenshots of mine to address certain parts, I will be doing the same and dissecting yours accordingly.

[Snippet 1]

I worked with kids for many years as a teacher, and many people in my family have too or still do. Two of them happen to be just over 5 feet which is quite short for the average adult woman living here. I've also worked alongside many a women of short stature, and never did I hear any of them complaining of issues with their students having difficulty differentiating them from their own peers just because they were short as well. I'm sorry but that's just ridiculous. Kids are quite smart and pick up on a lot more than you seem to give them credit for. Height is not the only characteristic they look at to determine who's an adult and who's not, and it's foolish to suggest otherwise. So unless you're a babysitter who's still in their teens and/or who has very childlike features or behavior then I'm afraid what you're getting at is total hogwash. This is just another example of how you shippers offer nothing of real substance to your reasoning, it's only ever cherry-picking or strawmanning from you guys. Stop deflecting from the real issues please, because this certainly isn't one and only winds up being a complete waste of time for all parties involved.

[Snippet 2]

Okay, calm down now. I wasn't insinuating that relationships between parents and children can't change over time in terms of how they get along. Of course that's possible, as all families experience their fair share of estrangement and abuse. What I was speaking about was in reference to the overall dynamic between the two. Because a bad mother or father can still be viewed as a parental figure to their child even if say they're not in said child's life anymore. Since Sesshomaru and Rin share a healthy bond- and just a friendly reminder that in my blog I even said that he doesn't have to necessarily be labeled her father but that a romantic relationship later would still be inappropriate- I didn't deem it necessary to address what you brought up. Plus, it kinda, umm, misses the point?? Please, let's stay on topic. And it's not captured in the screenshot, but stop acting like there isn't a small part of them that idolizes their parents at some point during childhood. Just like you mention later on how it's normal for kids to have innocent crushes on adults that they eventually grow out of? Well, guess what, the same concept applies here. Kids eventually learn that their parents are far from perfect and make mistakes too. Rin is so damn young in the OG series though that we never even get to see her reach that maturity level.

[Snippet 3]

LOL! Alright, okay, so the "unbreakable bond" bit you're mentioning was actually me quoting you sessrinners. Did you not catch that? I literally spelled it out. *sigh* The whole point I was making is that shippers like yourself make hypocritical and contradictory statements all.the.goddamn.time. One moment you guys claim that Sesshomaru and Rin were essentially strangers and meant very little to each other, only to say in the same breath a few seconds later that they were destined to be together and their bond is like no other. I agree, their bond is special, but why must that mean they're going to fall in love?

That is the root of the matter here. Too many animes/mangas have romanticized this older adult man & young girl growing up falling in love trope that it's become way too normalized and widely accepted across the world- and yes, in some cultures more than others. Sadly, you lack the awareness to recognize how this all works. You know how we know that? When we see that you shippers are so desensitized to sexualized images of girls in the media that you share posts like this one below which *subtly* imply a future romance although one half of that pairing is still just a child in the pic and then try and pass it off as cute. That's like super fucking problematic and it scares me that you can't see that (or deny you do). 🤢

After all that's said and done, Sesshomaru leaving Rin in the village with Kaede is to me the strongest indicator more than pretty much anything else he's done for Rin that proves he is her adoptive father. It's so funny to me how you somehow see the exact opposite though. 🤔 What I think is happening is that you got yourself on some squeaky clean ass shipper goggles fresh out of your little echo chamber. Because I hate to tell you, but what you're fantasizing is what you want to see and not what's actually there on screen or was written into the story. I'm strictly talking about Inuyasha and the manga of course. [For the TL; DR version skip to the last paragraph.]

Parents looking after their kids is what parents are supposed to do. A good parent will do anything to keep their child safe and ensure they are cared for, so what he did for her by leaving her there was in her best interests clearly. Besides, as a babysitter, you more than most people should understand that parents aren't always able to be there for their kids so sometimes others gotta step in to help. Haven't you heard of the saying, "it takes a village to raise a child?" Which in Rin's case is literally true! 😂 Sometimes kids are even sent off to stay with grandparents and that's who raises them instead. Or maybe they have to temporarily live with an aunt or uncle because their single parent's job requires they work out of town 4-5 days of the week so they're hardly home. But that doesn't mean that the parents care or love their kids any less, and it's foolish to assume that Sesshomaru must have thought very little of Rin simply due to the fact that he made the decision to leave her in the village. Come on, y'all are acting like he abandoned her there!!

It's just given the circumstances Sesshomaru finally came to learn that Rin traveling with him was no longer safe. I also like to think it's because he wished for her to live a more normal life and to learn how to fully trust humans again. Plus, continuing to travel with him as young as she was would have proven dangerous and unwise. Now for you to know all this and still manage to turn his past actions towards her while she was just a child into a romantic gesture is what boggles my mind. Regardless of how you look at it, from my perspective or your own, Sesshomaru is in the wrong. Either he's a father figure who impregnates his daughter at the young age of approximately 14. OR he's this man she used to travel with who maybe isn't a father to her but who nonetheless basically rapes her since kids her age can't consent to sex with an adult. Idk about you but it sounds to me like nobody here wins with either scenario we're given. In other words, you should be just as mad as we are. If only one side didn't choose to forsake their morals they know we both have in common for the sake of a ship. Welp. 🤷‍♀️

I agree, incest is disgusting but that's not the only problem we have with this pairing. A romantic bond forming between Sesshomaru and Rin would also constitute as grooming.

You realize that over the years he visited her in the village that he brought her gifts too and essentially watched her grow up right before his very eyes, right? I mean, I know you do, but I really shouldn't have to explain further why pursuing a romantic/sexual relationship with each other is plain and simple wrong. And before you say it's not because he didn't have any malintent, please understand that considering their history and power dynamic up to then that yes this is still considered grooming even if Rin supposedly "wanted it" or "made the first move." Whether you consider him her father or not, as the adult who took on a role resembling that of a caretaker in her early life- a critical developmental time for a child- Sesshomaru is obligated to turn down any advances by Rin and most definitely should not initiate any himself. As the first close adult figure she's had in her life since her parents died, it's unfathomable to imagine how Sesshomaru could go through with taking advantage of this young girl who was under his care and supervision since they met. To think he could be capable of betraying that trust sickens me to the core.

This. Now THIS is how a parent/guardian or a similar adult caretaker (babysitter, teacher, etc.) talks to a child. And, in turn, this is how some young children talk to adults. You'd be insane and delusional to deny it! We see it in our everyday lives, do we not? From where else do you think our stories draw most of their inspiration? Yes, obviously these fictional universes have aspects of fantasy that don't exist in the real world, but so how then do you suppose we're able to relate to them? The reason for that being is because these stories are written by people for people, so naturally there are going to be real life aspects embedded throughout. Sure, a little escapism doesn't hurt as we don't need to take everything so seriously, but ultimately we all need to recognize that the messages in the stories we tell matter. Most stories possess a combination of both light and dark themes, but when it specifically comes to the latter we gotta be careful with how we tackle this in children's media since kids are far more impressionable.

So if at the center of a story we have two of the main protagonists whose mom is basically their same age and to top it off she knew their dad when she was just a girl and who just so happened to help raise her, wouldn't you say that's beyond fucked up or at the very least so fucking weird? Like why would we think it's even remotely okay for our children to watch this garbage?? Really think about it. Try and be objective for once and think about how it would sound explaining this storyline to an outsider who's never watched IY or HNY. Well, antis have tried this before many times and we always get the same reaction: Ewww!

Like I said earlier, if you wanna ship it then fine, but 1) please stop seeking our approval or trying to change our minds - your ship wish came true didn't it, so why do you need us to validate it? 2) even though it's not canon, respect that we don't support this sequel portraying pedophilia in a positive light. It's harmful af to not only allow but glorify the continuation of sexualized images of young girls everywhere. And I shouldn't have to say this, but just because this trope is popular as you say does not make it right. Lolicon themes in the media have been an issue forever and it needs to stop. Yes, even some people in Japan or "the East" would agree. Shocker!

We're pissed off and rightfully so because Yashahime's TV rating is 14, not to mention it airs at the prime time kids in Japan watch TV after getting home from school. That's Towa and Setsuna's age, true, but if Rin being the mom when she's like only a year older than them (please don't argue w/ me about the math- antis have so far been right every time with it) is straight-up disgusting and not something we should be supporting or endorsing. Rin's a whole ass child!! Please don't start with the "but times were different then so her having kids at 15 is acceptable" argument either, because we've already debunked that and every other single excuse you guys throw at us. Besides, how or why would you expect young viewers to know these historical "facts" anyway, especially if as you suggest fiction doesn't affect reality so what does it matter? Yet here we are, arguing over a fictional show in real life almost a year and a half into the "Sesshomaru fucks?" sequel being announced. My ass, your ass, hell all our asses fiction doesn't affect reality!

Look, I do apologize if the tone of this blog came off as snippy or condescending at times. I do not wish you any ill will, it's just I'm not really sure what you expected to get out of all this besides maybe getting on my nerves perhaps. haha A lot of you shippers have been desperately scrambling to interact with us, lurking in our tags, jumping onto our posts screaming canon and getting so defensive even though you sought us out first. We've been sticking to our tags, so how about you stay in your lane too. By the way since we're on the topic, have you seen Twitter or Reddit?! SR shippers there are the actual worst and many Inuyasha fans (not just antis) have complained of not feeling welcomed to engage in fandom spaces anymore. Shippers swarm them and scare them off simply because fans don't like your ship and refuse to accept it. It's pathetic, really. No one should ever be bullied or harassed just because they don't like something you might. We're all fans of Inuyasha, aren't we? So let's act like it. Yashahime on the other hand, you guys are welcome to that pungent heap of trash. Fans have a right to criticize it too, but if you like it then good for you, so keep on liking it and don't mind us.

I'm almost done, but real quick back to Jaken! Let's not forget about how the official Yashahime website- which came out after my blog, mind you- described Jaken. This translation isn't the best one available but it's the only version a fellow anti friend could track down. They do recall a better one done by a native Japanese speaker who was also an anti, and that member confirmed that Jaken is indeed called Rin's babysitter. So you see, I was right in my interpretation. In the original post I did compare Jaken to a brother, but after talking to others (some comments can be found under said post) I did acknowledge that he's more of a reluctant babysitter who's not related. And if he's not at least a brother to Rin, then he's definitely not her father.

At the end of the day, the creator Rumiko Takahashi has the final word. Which is guess what? Hogosha. 💖 Probably should've just started out with that and saved us all the trouble, huh? Good day/night to you.

Papamaru bids you adieu now. 🤞

#anti yashahime #anti sessrin #sesshomaru is rin's dad #papamaru #hogosha 💖#the sequel may not be canon but sunrise can still burn in hell

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akookminsupporter · 4 years ago

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The respectability games of 'look! I can be the most NOT delulu Jikooker ever' are getting old. I appreciate the bloggers who try hard to be objective and prevent the spread of misinformation. I admire their commitment to integrity and receipts. They put work into earning their platform and deserve to be considered dependable and wise.

But then other people want to show up and blow up inboxes with 'THAT SWEATER COULD BE ANYONE'S!' and 'Jk was just teasing Jm about the shower calm down delulus'... for what?

Are you anons aware that anything that a cis man in the media does in the vicinity of a cis woman WILL be interpreted as romantic? Do you know how LITTTTTLE it would take for Jk or Jimin to be presumed to be in a heteronormative relationship with a cis female person? (Or how little believers of a certain ship require to spin a psychosexual melodrama wherein mint chocolate icecream =s**?)

Do you know how purely BEYOND the realm of possibility it is in the majority of people's minds it is that ANY Bangtan member is not straight?

I get where these anons are coming from. I am LGBTQ and form a traditional country. There is this idea sometimes that if we capitulate to our elders idea of 'decency', we can 'earn' the right to be seen as decent human beings. It's really hard to break out of that. And I think this mentality can follow people into all kinds of discourse. As Jikook supporters, it can be 'embarrassing' to be lumped into the stereotype of a pack of fetishizing fangirls who slow down footage and draw arrows etc. The reality it takes a lot of time, research and a objectivity to open one's self up to the possibility of an LGBTQ couple just kind of semi putting it out there in the biggest band in the world. It bothers me (and probably you and many other people) when people assume a m/m relationship between who public figures is only the result of fannish 'wishful' imaginings. It hits on a personal level because it is a statement that goes beyond fandom and touches upon visibility and the very existence (or non existence, as many insist) of sexual minorities operating within a repressive society. I know we Jikookers want to be seen as sensible and respectable. No one wants to be called a fantasist. But all we are doing is loving BTS, and literally just reacting to content that is being shown to us. We aren't, as a rule, manufacturing anything. And we aren't isolating it and taking it out of eight years worth of context.

“The reality it takes a lot of time, research and a objectivity to open one's self up to the possibility of an LGBTQ couple just kind of semi putting it out there in the biggest band in the world.”

Anon I felt attacked with the first two lines of your message aahahahahaha. but you are absolutely right and I must say that in this case it is sad, and I know you would agree. personally since I started posting and replying to Asks on this blog I have tried to be as objective as possible and try to see everything in black and white but I also allow myself to see shades of gray. For me personally doing that is important because I don't want to fall into the game that it's my imagination seeing things and not my common sense understanding what I see, I don't know if that makes sense. your second paragraph... if you had seen the asks I received explaining and others telling me I was wrong about the whole jimin wearing jungkook’ sweater in winter package thing... it's amazing how many look for or create the most elaborate or dumbest explanations in order to not accept something related to jikook, instead of accepting that sometimes the simplest answer is the right one.

After so many conversations on this topic here, I've come to wonder if the reluctance or refusal to accept at least the possibility of jikook being real is not only because of homophobia but also because it's Jimin and jungkook specifically. I think it's pretty clear that they are two of the most popular members and arguably the most hated as well, so I wonder if for many that's a reason as well. “Or how little believers of a certain ship require to spin a psychosexual melodrama wherein mint chocolate icecream =s**?” what i particularly hate about this part is that they don't seem to be as hated, insulted and contradicted as much as jikookers, and we or most of us don't resort to absurd explanations to prove that the ship is real as most of them tend to do.

And yeah, we wouldn't be having these kinds of discussions or I wouldn't be getting asks from people saying that jimin and jungkook are like brothers, or that the things they do or say are things that two brothers would do or say to each other, if they were a woman and a man, because that would be normal. right? so there would be... no problem.

“We aren't, as a rule, manufacturing anything. And we aren't isolating it and taking it out of eight years worth of context.” and I'm proud of that.

#jikook #kookmin #anon #ask

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rosemary-is-in-pesterquest · 4 years ago

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ooh! I have thoughts on Eridan!

okay so, to me, Eridan ties into this thing that homestuck has going on with a lot of its more morally grey characters... the question of how responsible young people are for their negative qualities and actions, and where the age threshold for personal responsibility is.

the characters in homestuck all straddle this line between being young enough to consider them victims of the forces that influence them, while also old enough to understand what they're doing and how it affects others... especially because a lot of these kids come off as really smart for their age, and very precocious. we've all been through phases in our lives that make us cringe, not because we're ashamed of something harmless, but because we recognize that we had absorbed something harmful, and took longer than we wish we had to unlearn it. it could be as simple as being kind of a jerk in a misguided attempt to seem cool, or as dramatic as actually hurting someone in an attempt to remedy one's own insecurities by putting down others to seem better by comparison... but how far can you push that before people aren't willing to forgive? before people abandon the notion that better guidance and more appropriate role models could reform someone? and it's especially interesting when you consider how old homestuck's core audience might've been when they first encountered this story, and how it affected their perception of the characters if they saw them as peers, rather than as children from an adult's perspective.

so to talk about Eridan, I wanna frame this in terms of his classpect, because it actually goes a long way towards contextualizing his behavior. Eridan is a prince of hope, meaning that he destroys hope or uses hope to destroy... and this can be seen in practically every conversation he has. if Eridan is contacting someone, it is because he expects something of them. advice, or consolation, or a solution to a problem he's having... it's always something. when he contacts Kanaya, he wants her to auspistize between him and Vriska. when he contacts Feferi, he wants her to give him encouragement, and maybe date him when he asks. and in every case, the way he demands these things by being rude, whiny, or self pitying, makes people reluctant or unwilling to give him what he expects. he destroys what he hopes to obtain.

it goes deeper than that though. Eridan has absorbed this ideology of sea dweller superiority from living on Alternia... and he actually takes it way farther than it even makes sense to. the aristocracy on Alternia use the lower class for all sorts of menial work that they feel entitled not to have to do themselves. they might have the ability to freely cull individual low bloods for any reason, but eradicating all land dwelling trolls would leave a lot of unpleasant yet necessary tasks with no one to do them. I don't think Eridan actually wants to live in a reality where sea dwellers have to pick up the slack of doing things like sanitation work, or construction or something... but another concept that is heavily tied to the hope aspect is delusion. Eridan is exaggerating. he's trying to agree with Alternia's ruthless class structure so hard that it's actually kind of absurd. but Feferi calls him on that... she says she thinks that he self sabotages on purpose. because he knows, at least in some capacity, that the consequences of getting what he "wants" would actually be really uncomfortable to live with.

so not only is Eridan's goal to destroy... it is also a false goal that he constantly undermines. and all of his waffling between grandstanding and self pity destroys his romantic prospects, which are what he actually seems to want the most.

if you look at the way Eridan pursues relationships, he actually makes a lot of logical sense, but not a lot of emotional sense. he's idealized the act of perfectly filling the relationship requirements of each quadrant. he wants Feferi to be his matesprit, which is purely based on the fact that she's high enough on the hemospectrum to be an appropriate match in terms of status. he wants Vriska to be his kismesis, and Kanaya to be their auspistice, and there are hints that Karkat might've been someone he was considering for moiraillegience, though it wasn't emphasized as much. and there you go! his goal is specific, but it's based more on ideals than on the actual needs and feelings of the people involved, and it's totally self centered... he always wants them to cater to his own needs. the reason why he gets as nihilistic as he does on the meteor, is because all of his endeavors to achieve these relationships are falling through. he feels like he has no hope of mending his existing connections, because he still only sees them in terms of people either giving him, or not giving him, what he wants. but the rest of their race is dead. as the last twelve trolls in existence, they only have each other as romantic options. and as Eridan gets more and more desperate, he gets more and more demanding, which is the exact quality that drives everyone away from him to begin with, and it culminates in him having a "if I can't have what I want then nobody can have any of their hopes either" meltdown.

to backtrack a bit, I wanna reconsider questions such as, when is a kid old enough to be held responsible for their own negative qualities? like... when are you comfortable with ceasing to blame environmental factors? when are they just a bad person? is it after they've refused a certain number of chances to make better choices? when do they reach an age, or level of bad behavior, that makes you think they can't be helped to reform from these negative qualities? where does an adult lose their patience for the idea that a kid is just a victim of their upbringing?

obviously Feferi is Eridan's peer, but these are basically the questions she grapples with when she talks to Eridan. it's like growing up next door to a kid whose parents have some aggressively wrong-headed political stances. as you grow, that kid might mirror their parents' way of thinking... and by the time the two of you are in your teens, it's hard to ignore how much of a jerk that kid is becoming. but you've seen them at every step of their development. you know where it comes from. maybe theirs is the dominant political belief in the community, even if your own parents aren't like that. maybe you wonder if you would've agreed with them if you grew up under their circumstances. you've felt the pressure, but you haven't lived in it like they have, and maybe if they just had the chance to grow up under different conditions, they wouldn't be this way. and you are aware that you could be an influence on them... maybe they need you to help them see another perspective. you always got along so well as kids. when did things even change? and that's kind of where I imagine Feferi is at when we're introduced to her and Eridan. it's a crossroads between believing that you might still matter enough to them to change their outlook, and the persistence of their ingrained beliefs. it's tiring to do that kind of work, over a long period of time, to minimal results. when is the appropriate time to give up? in this way, Feferi's own hopes for Eridan fade over time. she says at one point that she was mainly acting as his moirail so he wouldn't try to underfeed her lusus and kill the land dwellers that way. she's not sure how serious he is, and she can't take that risk. deep down, I'm pretty sure Eridan knew he was never actually going to commit a genocide... but his need to grandstand, and legitimate belief in his caste superiority, had convinced Feferi enough that she still felt obligated to manage him as though he was a real threat.

these characters are thirteen years old. they're right at the edge of childhood and adolescence... right at the age where children aren't quite so innocent. they want to assert themselves. they aren't mature, so there's a lot of responsibility that they still shouldn't be trusted with yet, but they've become aware enough to feel like that's demeaning, and to want to be taken seriously. in an effort to make people acknowledge them without looking down on them, they'll try just about anything. they don't have the experience to know what they're doing yet, so it doesn't always work in their favor, and that's frustrating. you can see bits and pieces of this in homestuck's characters. like with the way they try to paint themselves as an authority on something, or shit talk each other in order to emphasize their own strengths. it's a really interesting theme, because homestuck pushes some of these young characters really far in terms of how bad the things they've done can be, or how much their lived experiences have taught them that what they're doing is acceptable. they can be really self aware in some ways, and come off as really childish in others. it's hard to know what you'd do about them in real life... and your answer changes depending on your own age and perspective. it's a really cool gray area to poke around in, and homestuck is excellent at it.

wtf I like Eridan now

#when you think about it a lot eridan really was just a misguided 13 yr old

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anextraordinarymuse · 3 years ago

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I'm just gonna go ahead and make a new post to respond to your points Katie (@jonesgirl88) so that we're not constantly reblogging and trying to load all of those gifs.

Jump to the DLO dance: there is a war going on in Oliver's head and the fact Eric can act that so we can see it? Brilliant. Chef's kiss. He's so torn and you can feel it and your heart breaks for both of them. He's holding her hand to his heart but Shane is also physically on his right side. Her chin is nearly resting on his right shoulder and he's pulled her close to his right side. What say you?

I noticed this too, of course. But first - Eric and Kristin deserve awards. All of the awards. They act beautifully, and they play off of each other so well - they're wonderful scene partners. Okay anyway. Yes, Shane is physically on his right side and has many points of contact along that side (like you said, her chin is nearly on his shoulder) but I pointed out their hands specifically because they are originally positioned away from their bodies. Shane and Oliver's physical closeness is a given in this moment because dancing is intimate. It requires that a lot of you be in contact with a lot of your partner. But originally Oliver and Shane's hands are extended away from them until Oliver pointedly draws them in and places Shane's hand over his heart. This movement is unnecessary in the context of ... well, anything. It's a purely instinctive and intimate move. He could have simply let go of her hand, or drawn it closer and then held it in some other position, but no: he pulls it right in against him. That's why I included it. I'm sure that it was included in the blocking and written in to the script because we're meant to notice it.

I could write for days about that DLO dance scene. THE. FREAKING. CHEMISTRY. I blush ridiculously easily (seriously it's A Problem and I hate it) and I would have been crimson that whole time if I were Kristin. The Tenderness. The Tension. The way his eyes dart back and forth right before he lets her go because he's so at war with himself: kiss her or let her go? O.Y.E.

They're standing in a line (because they're being given awards) but he's turning towards her and she's turning towards him. I just...I can't with these two.

This is totally A Thing©. Shane and Oliver both have a tendency to turn in toward each other like that - but especially Shane. It's an unconscious attempt to take refuge in Oliver and his strength, I think. She often does it in times when she's seeking comfort and closeness/affection. That moment where Shane is sleeping on Oliver's shoulder is one my favorite moments of it, but there's another one that's a small moment (that apparently was either filmed in a longer moment and cut, or aired as a longer moment/actual hug in one of the international versions).

Right before the scene fades into the next one we see Shane turn herself even more into Oliver's left side and tuck her head, as if she's going to bury her face in his shoulder. I wish we'd been gifted with more of this moment! Look at the way she tucks her arm into him and tips her head - she even kind of pushes her hip into his side. I just love this moment a lot.

1) Shane is shown to be freaking out when closed in the vault. Her fear seems to trigger at odd times? She's fine when she learned there's 13 hours of air; she's fine when she learns there's actually less than 5 hours of air; she's fine when she's bored and wants to play a game; but Katherine might be dead so she freaks out? I get it, she believes their fate to be tied together but then why wasn't she more fearful before they started reading the letters? It just doesn't make a lot of sense.

I think for a large part of this Shane was doing a good job of distracting herself and focusing on something else. But reading the letters made them both emotional: they connected with something poignant in those letters. They're reading about two people who fall in love despite their circumstances and share something beautiful even if it's only words - and then find out at the end that these two people may not have actually been able to be together. Not only does that mirror their situation, but all of a sudden it seems like they might never have the chance to be together either (to Shane) because, oh yeah, they're also in danger of not breathing anymore - and I think that just brought her fear to the surface. Also, it's a small moment, but Shane wasn't too thrilled about having to go into the vault at all. When she first sees it she hesitates and says "in there?" like she'd rather not go anywhere near it. I always took it as a small nod to the fact that Shane might not have a love of small spaces. We've never seen it mentioned again though, so who knows.

I know it's part of the story but he literally just wrote he's willing to give things with Holly another chance but then spends his time thinking of Shane when reading the letters.

Yes! And I have always taken this as another indication that, at this point, Oliver is saying what he feels he should have said long ago. He's making the effort he feels duty bound to make. I mean, I think part of him does want to put in the effort - but that part is his head. His rational mind, and probably his memories of Holly and his affection for her, and the importance he puts on his marriage vows. This is another reason why I truly don't think his heart is with Holly anymore, or in his marriage. AT NO POINT after he writes that letter and tucks it away does he think of Holly. He's reading powerful, moving love letters between two people and the only person he thinks about is Shane? And - we don't find this out until later, but still - the letter he does write to Holly isn't that romantic. He promises to try to see her dreams through her eyes, and says that he's willing to change, but there's nothing about how much he loves her or how her absence has affected his heart or his life. Maybe because Oliver didn't really believe when he was writing it that he was in danger? I don't know. But it's interesting.

That hand grab!! ... And then the way she looks at him as he sings along at the end when Rita wins?? I can't with this man. I can't with this woman.

Um, yes. Shane takes Oliver's hand and he just ... short circuits. It's hilarious. And they're so smitten with each other it's ridiculous.

And in that hospital scene, Oliver absolutely would have let anyone sleep on his shoulder like that. But it wasn't anyone: it was Shane, and it was Shane after all of the emotional intimacy they shared in The Treasure Box; and, once again, it was Shane turned into his side like Oliver offered to let her lay her head there, or she knew what she was doing when she did, because she's not facing forward in the chair with her head to one side like she just accidentally fell asleep and then her head sort of slid to one side. She's angled her body into his. Her feet are pointing toward him. Her hand is just under/next to his arm. How did they get to that moment? I NEED TO KNOW.

(I always understood Jordan to just be an angel. Definitely open to interpretation though.)

OLIVER IS THE ANSWER TO HER LETTER. His words, his faith, his person is the answer to Shane's childhood prayer she never forgot. He opens the wound but it's destined he's the one to help her heal.

Oliver is the embodiment of Shane's hope. Jordan couldn't answer her letter because it had to be Oliver, which he realized. And before he leaves the chapel he says to Oliver "take good care of that little letter writer." HE'S TALKING ABOUT SHANE. In the Impossible Dream, Shane tells Oliver that he's given her something she'll never forget: "a little hope for this world." Oliver. Is. Shane's. Hope. Oh my gosh! She's his heart, he's her hope. How tooth-rottingly, disgustingly sweet. I love it.

Extra point: Kristin can rock a leather skirt...like hot damn woman.

A) she always looks so good, but yes, this leather skirt and periwinkle/lavender top is one of my favorite looks on her, and B) I love her fashion and style and aspire to be that fashionable one day.

Holly and Oliver try to have a conversation with words and they fail.

This literally just occurred to me: Holly herself points out that she and Oliver suck at having actual conversations. Physically they click, so they obviously had a lot of chemistry, but they struggle to just talk to one another. Juxtapose that with Shane, who literally understands Oliver so well and on such a deep level that she not only understands him when no one else does, she can actively translate him. The reunion in HG instantly comes to mind here. She translates in real time for the audience what Oliver means ("And I might be the only person on Earth who understands what you just said!") But she also translates what he says for their waitress in OIAM ("Oh, he just means that people weren't having their booshes (or however you spell that) amused in the 20th century.")

In the Pilot and The Masterpiece, things get McSteamy so quickly but it never starts out that way ... He's trying for the sake of his marriage one last time but his head and heart aren't in it.

Exactly! The pull between him and Shane is magnetic. It's natural and impossible to ignore. This is why I maintain that even if Holly had changed her mind and asked to work on their relationship it never would have worked. Oliver was in love with Shane by this point even if he wouldn't say it or wasn't ready to acknowledge it (although Jordan played a part in making Oliver more aware of this truth. Hard to ignore when a freaking angel points out to you how important someone is to you.)

To Holly, kissing Oliver is akin to breaking promises to herself ... To Shane, kissing Oliver is akin to keeping promises.

Well, you just blew my mind. This is so true! Holly tells us that the only way she could see to live her dream was to stop kissing Oliver (insinuating that it was also to leave him behind); Shane's dream seems to just be ... Oliver. Sharing a life with him; delivering dead letters with him; loving him.

BRB, sobbing over this stupid show and these idiots in love.

I do think that Holly and Oliver parted amicably. I can't decide if I think that Holly asked about Shane, or if she made a comment about her (directly or indirectly). I kind of feel like Holly was more the type to make a comment than ask a question.

I am dying over the logistics of Oliver actually buying that porch swing. Well dressed Oliver scouring the aisles of Walmart at like midnight for the perfect porch swing while surrounded by a bunch of people in their pajamas and college kids on middle of the night snack runs because they're marathoning TV shows instead of studying? Hilarious. Headcanon accepted.

Back to the topic at hand...I do think some of the left/right stuff is purely ease of blocking

As do I. I'm definitely reading more into it than I'm meant to at some points, there's just SO MUCH of it and it's so fun to contemplate that I went for it.

THE HUG IN TRUTH BE TOLD.

hahahahahahaaa ... the way that Shane literally just drops everything and wraps her arms around him slays me. The stunned little pause where Oliver's arms are just up in the air for a second, as if he's somehow surprised at the force of her hug despite having watched her move toward him, and then he tentatively puts his arms on her back and then ... he holds her a little tighter. Ugh. UGH. I DIE.

CAN WE TALK ABOUT OLIVER IN FLANNEL WITH THE SLEEVES ROLLED UP??

Yes. A million times, yes. Oliver with his sleeves rolled up? Outstanding. Oliver in flannel? An absolute vision. Oliver in flannel with his sleeves rolled up? I C A N N O T.

There will be more. I need to make the gifs, but there's going to be a part 4. And probably 5. In fact, I think this is just going to become a series of Things I Need To Scream About™ with supporting gif evidence.

I'll try to break it up though, so there's just ShOliver stuff, just Shane stuff, and just Oliver stuff. And then all Postables stuff because they're the cutest little Postal family ever.

#oliver x shane #shane x oliver #sholiver #Jess' thoughts #look at us bringing life to these tags lol #in my head it's just you and me in this little room freaking out together about these idiots Katie #like every once in a while someone opens the door and it's just us #squealing at each other and flailing #and whoever it is just closes the door and backs away quietly like #nope not going in there

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