#batman 457

[timdrakeinorder]

Batman #457: Identity Crisis, Part Three: Master Of Fear

Released: December 1990 Story: Alan Grant Pencils: Norm Breyfogle Inks: Steve Mitchell Lettering: Todd Klein Colors: Adrienne Roy Editing: Dennis O'Neil

Part Two

[jonathan-cranes-mistress-of-fear]

Gotta love that very clear gay subtext of old comics

Batman 457 || Scanned at 300dpi

[diligence]

Though most don't notice the change in Robins, you do. It's the subtle differences that draw your attention posthumous because that's when your attention matters.

That's when someone is needed to point out that Batman needs a Robin. It's the differences that help you know that the original Robin isn't dead—that he can take the job.

He, all teeth and a taut leash, doesn't take the job, of course, so you take it instead.

You become the third Robin, picking up a legacy that's scratched like an uncared for vinyl that you didn't listen to before buying.

Dick is everything you imagine a Robin should be—at least, most of the time. Others, you can't believe he thought it was a good idea to leave Batman, even if he was getting old (you're thirteen and can't imagine what it's like to be almost twenty yet), but you suppose it's a good thing he did or else you wouldn't be standing in the cave yourself.

Sometimes when you're standing in that cave you look at Jason's suit—displayed like it would be in a museum but for only Batman and Alfred who always spoke of the second Robin with a furrowed brow and sometimes Dick when he could stomach being there and now you to view—and wonder if he would have left if he had a choice. If he hadn't died, would he have stayed by Batman's side longer than Dick?

You don't know. You don't have to know. You swallow down the part of you that supposes it's a good thing you don't have to take that gamble, either, because you don't like that thought of yours and you know Bruce wouldn't either.

Even if Jason isn't exactly a topic that the two of you broach often, you come to understand Bruce enough to know when he's thinking of him, which is almost always the first few months. Sometimes there's tells, like when he holds a glassy glance too long as if he's observing a ghost behind you, one that he's afraid of. Sometimes you don't need a tell at all—sometimes you're just Jason. Sometimes you're not allowed to go on missions you can handle because he's afraid of losing you, even though that's unspoken, and you know that really means he's afraid of losing Jason again.

Dick doesn't see Jason in you any more than he sees himself in you, you think, but there's always been an unreadable quality to him that most people wouldn't be able to notice unless they were trained by the World's Greatest Detective. Luckily for you, you were, and that's how you know that it isn't that you don't remind Dick of Jason, but that Dick doesn't like thinking of Jason at all.

The guilt runs too deep. You don't know where it's sourced, but that's okay. You wouldn't fault Dick anyway; he's practically your older brother. Your only brother.

That only makes your wonder deepen, your imagination more vivid—more hopeful—as a kid than it will be in the future. You know that if Jason had lived, you would never have become Robin in the first place. You're too close in age and you still don't know if he would have given up Robin, but there could be a world out there where he did and you do.

In that world, you assume you would get along. Again, you're close enough in age that you'd probably like the same things, and you'd only have a few years gap in school subjects. You're smart enough that you could keep up with his homework, and if you couldn't, he could give you tips on yours. You'd roll your eyes at the same Bruce comment, which is something you already do with Dick, but it'd be different.

Dick's your role model, the kind of guy you aspire to be, but he's older than you and away from home more often than not. Even still, you're closer with him than you are with Bruce in almost every way but strategically, so you can only imagine having a former Robin around more often. You can't help but wonder if you'd be closer—Jason and you.

You think about him and the life he didn't get to live a lot because it's the life you're now living. You think about it every time you pass his memorial in the Batcave, even if it's only a brief thought that acknowledges he existed. You think about how the legacy of Robin isn't the only legacy that rests on your shoulders. You 𝘩𝘰𝘱𝘦 that if he were alive, you'd be doing him proud.

But he's not, so you mourn him. You mourn him with Bruce and Dick in silence, each in your own different ways, because it's not like any of you to express these feelings aloud. If it used to be, it isn't anymore, because that isn't the way of the bat, and God knows you need to be the bat.

Sometimes you mourn the imaginary version of him more than the one that existed, the one you could relate to and look up to. You like to think it's not that far from reality, so you mourn the real him, too.

You mourn him, and you mourn him, and you mourn him, and he tries to kill you.

𝘛𝘩𝘦𝘯 you mourn him more.

[6kate1bishop6]

trying to read through all of tim’s appearances in order and i’m only 27 issues in but i think it’s fundamentally changing my brain chemistry

[batbaffle]

as opposed to:

[aliteralchicken]

accidentally deleted a message about where to start with Tim without reading everything so I’d go with:

• a lonely place of dying (Tim’s origin)

• rite of passage (Tim’s first case)

• batman 455-457 (Tim becoming Robin)

• robin 1991 (Tim’s first solo)

it’s also very important to me that you know that despite Red Robin being an absolutely amazing comic under no circumstances should you ever start with it, if anyone ever tells you to that’s the devil talking

it’s a love letter to all of Tim’s history and requires the knowledge of what had happened to Tim and those close to him recently and what was happening currently at that time, Tim acts very differently than he does normally and he has a very good reason to, if you read Red Robin without reading Robin 1993 you will be shooting yourself in the foot

[a-bad-case-of-the-stephs]

Stephanie Browns time as Robin serves as a direct foil to multiple aspects of Tim Drake’s introduction as Robin and what that accomplishes narratively:

1. Alfred vs Bruce Reactions

When Tim first arrives, Alfred is right there trying to convince an extremely reluctant Bruce to allow Tim to become Robin.

Batman #442

In contrast with Steph, where Alfred is giving his best effort trying to convince a resolved Bruce not to allow Steph to become Robin

Robin #126

Tim and Stephs introductions as Robin have Bruce and Alfred directly switch roles in their relation to Robin: the reluctant becomes the advocate, and the advocate becomes the reluctant.

2. Breaking Explicit Orders to Save Batman

Let’s look at the story which ends with Tim donning his own Robin costume for the first time and being referred to as “Robin” for the first time by Bruce, the story where Tim officially becomes Robin.

Tim is told not to go into the field or put on the Robin costume, but Tim chooses to fight the Scarecrow himself and enter a situation he was told explicitly to stay out of by Batman to save Bruce’s life (and also Vicki Vale’s).

Batman #456 & #457

Bruce tells him sometimes rules are meant to be broken, and immediately afterwards, he is recognized as Robin.

Stephanie’s firing as Robin occurs when she is told explicitly to stay out of a fight, but which she still enters, as she believes Batman was in danger.

Robin #128

Tim’s entrance into being Robin is tied directly to his disregarding orders to save Batman.

In contrast, Stephanie’s exit as Robin occurs once she disregards orders and attempts to save Batman.

3. Secret Identity Knowledge

Tim enters the manor already knowing everyone’s secret identities. He knows “The Secret” from literally before day one.

Batman #441

In stark contrast, not only does Stephanie enter her time as Robin without knowing Batman’s real identity, she leaves her time as Robin none the wiser as to Bruce’s secret.

Despite working as a sanctioned member of the team for a substantial amount of time beforehand as Spoiler, she doesn’t know Batman’s identity when she is Robin and she still doesn’t know when she “dies” in war games.

Tim represents a totality of knowledge in his introduction, he knows everyone’s identity and relationships far before he becomes Robin.

And Stephanie represents a total lack of that same knowledge: she enters and exits the Robin role with no knowledge of “The Secret”.

The entirety of Stephs time as Robin is overshadowed by the unavoidable fact that the normally intensely trust based partnership that is the Batman and Robin dynamic is being subverted and used as a blunt tool. A tool to leverage Tim back into the role of Robin.

Is it any wonder then that Stephs time as Robin foils Tims introduction as Robin?

The contrast serves as a way to explain to the reader why Stephanie cannot be Robin: Steph is the “bad” Robin who portrays an opposite to the “good” Tim Drake Robin introduction. She is in opposition to the “norm”.

Stephanie serves as a reversal, a perversion of how Tim Drake became Robin, allowing Tim to return to the role.

The core tenets of the Tim Drake Robin Introduction Myth must be reversed, deconstructed and undone, so that there is room and opportunity for Tim Drake to rebecome Robin afterwards. So that he can reestablish himself and the norms that Stephanie’s time as Robin has upset and undone.

[zahri-melitor]

Nothing like a DC Christmas story with parallels nobody at the time intended to start you crying.

And in the Depths - Christmas With the Super-Heroes #2 (1989)

Dick got his costume for Christmas? Wait who does that remind me of?

Identity Crisis - Batman #455-457 (1990)

You know, the story set on Christmas Eve when Tim buried Janet and ‘earned’ his new costume as Robin.

With the back up moment of:

It’s a Wonderful Night - DC Universe Holiday Special #1 (2008).

That time Dick gives Tim his costume for Christmas on Christmas Eve.

[nightwings-robin]

Some of y'all act like Tim hated Jason when Tim was Robin and Jason was still dead but I disagree.

Not a lot of people do this but I've seen it enough times that it's gotten to bother me a little bit.

Let's take a look at some early Tim opinions on Jason.

Detective Comics (1937) #618

"Just a boy like me... One day I'll be as good as Jason."

This issue came out in 1990, so it's rather soon after Jason died and Tim was introduced (which happened in 1988 and 1989 respectfully). This is what Tim thinks about Jason very early on. This doesn't read as even remotely like hatred to me.

But wait, there's more!

The very next issue shows Tim having sympathy for Jason.

Detective Comics (1937) #619

Tim is noting the similarities between Dick, Jason, and himself. This issue is in the same arc when Tim's parents get kidnapped and his mom is killed. He has sympathy for Dick AND Jason, who both lost their parents. Tim is faced with the same pain and it shows his compassion for Jason.

Now this isn't to say that Tim was unaware of some of Jason's problems and maybe did blame him for his own death a bit, as shown with this panel:

Batman (1940) #455

Tim knew that Jason had times of anger and says he won't let that happen to himself. I don't think Tim is being quite fair here in claiming that he won't let his anger get the better of him like Jason's did, but Tim is hardly the only character to think this way about Jason and, again, this doesn't read as hatred to me. If anything, to me this reads as a character with preconceived notions about how another person died and not wanting to make the same preconceived mistakes as that person.

Is he being a bit harsh and 'holier-than-thou' here? Yes. Do I think this is hatred or some other malicious view of Jason? No.

There is also that time Tim hallucinated Dick and Jason, and they gave a sort of "pep-talk" to him about being Robin.

Batman (1940) #456

These are Tim's own thoughts manifesting through Dick and Jason. I do dislike that he imagines Jason blaming himself for his own death but think about why Tim would think this about Jason. Tim never met Jason. Wasn't there when he died. He only knows what he read and what he was told about Jason from other people. People like Bruce, Dick, and Alfred. And while those three loved and cared for Jason, they also unfortunately reinforced the belief that Jason was responsible for the Joker murdering him. It's not great but it does stand to reason that Tim would think this about Jason.

But it's not all bad stuff. Tim imagines Jason cheering him on alongside Dick:

Batman (1940) #456

Tim imagines not just Dick but also Jason telling him he can do it. That he can figure it out and be a good Robin. I feel like if Tim really did hate Jason, he wouldn't imagine Jason rooting for him.

Tim goes on to imagine Dick and Jason later helping him out with a fight:

Batman (1940) #457

Again, Tim imagines both Dick AND Jason encouraging him during a battle. He imagines that they both want him to succeed as a hero. Why would Tim want Jason's approval if he dislikes Jason? Because he doesn't dislike Jason. Tim respects him enough as Robin to think that he wants Jason's encouragement.

and then at the end when he officially becomes Robin:

Batman (1940) #457

"Dick made it a symbol... Jason gave his life for it. Failing them... what they fought so hard to build... worries me."

Tim sees being Robin as not just carrying on Dick's legacy, but also Jason's. He wants to live up to Jason just as much as he wants to live up to Dick. He wants to be a Robin that both of them can be proud of.

Like none of this says to me that Tim hated Jason. Did he look up to and idolize Jason the way he did with Dick? No, but that also doesn't mean that Tim hated him.

I get the feeling that Tim viewed Jason's death as a tragedy but since they never met, he didn't have any personal feelings about him, only wanting to live up to the Robin name that Jason left behind.

Now I DO think that Tim did eventually end up hating Jason after Jason came back and tried to kill Tim and others multiple times but this post is specifically referring to the time before Jason returned from the grave.

And I guess I should make it clear that I've not read every single comic issue of Tim Drake ever so maybe there are moments that refute my claim that I just don't know about. I'm simply going off of issues that I have read and I've only read Tim's very early days as Robin.

Feel free to disagree and add on if you want.

[gretahayes]

Batman (1940) #442 / Batman (1940) #440 / The New Titans (1988) #61 / wine and wheat, madds buckley / The New Titans (1988) #65 / wine and wheat, madds buckley / Batman (1940) #456 / wine and wheat, madds buckley / Batman (1940) #457 / wine and wheat, madds buckley / Batman (1940) #457 / wine and wheat, madds buckley / Batman (1940) #457 / wine and wheat, madds buckley

Tim and Bruce + wine and wheat

[dailyscarecrow]

Day 34

A whim

Comic: Batman n° 457

Context: Scarecrow has a new drug that makes people open to suggestion (like putting crime on Batman's mind!). He really wants to know the bat from the inside...

[fantastic-nonsense]

Hiii do u have any comic recs with a young Bruce?

I’ve heard abt the dark Halloween but I’m not as interested in the joker… I read year one (rlly good). The nightwalkers comic adaptation felt like fanfiction…

Year one focused more on how Batman came to be but I wished I could read smth more Bruce focused, if u know what I mean! (Nightwalkers had terrible themes and even poorer execution lol)

I’m mostly wanting to delve on his relationships with other people, I watched the first Nolan movie and thought it was rlly entertaining! I especially liked Rachel, bc I’m a romantic… sorry. But yeah ! Thank u sm ^__^

Batman: The Knight is a frankly delightful miniseries specifically about Bruce's training days abroad before he returns to Gotham! It doesn't have much to do with Bruce's romantic relationships (he has a girlfriend named Dana in it, but she's really only seen in flashbacks and not a very prominent character), but it's a very interesting exploration of how Bruce becomes Batman.

Otherwise...this is basically the premise of Zero Year. If you read the synopsis of that story, you might notice a lot of similarities between the premize of Zero Year and the plot of The Batman (2022). That's because Matt Reeves drew a lot of inspiration from Zero Year's plot when making that movie. So if you liked that depiction of Bruce, you'll probably like Zero Year.

Another early years!Batman comic you might enjoy is Batman: Dark Moon Rising, which collects two miniseries: Batman and the Monster Men and Batman and the Mad Monk. They both take place in between Batman: Year One and The Man Who Laughs (Bruce's first time fighting the Joker).

If you want to delve into young!Bruce's relationships with other people, you should read Detective Comics #457 and Detective Comics #574 for stories focused on Bruce's relationship with Leslie Thompkins, who in modern continuity helped raise Bruce alongside Alfred. You might also find Batman: Year Three to be of interest to you. It was the first "big" modern retelling of Dick Grayson's origin and how he became Robin.

Romance-wise, early days Comics!Bruce dated actress Julie Madison (they were actually engaged at one point!). I'm not the best person to give recs for her, unfortunately, since her appearances are mostly confined to Golden Age comics and the New 52.

However, if you're interested in young!Bruce's romances regardless of whether they're comic canon or not...go watch Mask of the Phantasm. Frankly, you should do it even if you aren't. It's an absolutely incredible movie and honestly everyone should watch it. 10/10, top-tier drama and a top-tier Batman movie.

[jonathan-cranes-mistress-of-fear]

Which comics would you reccommend for learning about Johnathan Cranes backstory?

Would you reccommend Scarecrow Year One? Are there lesser known Scarecrow origin stories that you would reccomend?

There's several comics that go over his backstory and yes, year one is one of them. It's my personal favorite and I think it's highly worth reading. However, there are others that are just as good. Here's a list

Riddle of the Human Scarecrow || World’s Finest #3 (first appearance)

Masters of Fear || Batman Annual 19 (New Earth Origin)

Scarecrow: Year One || (Year One Origin)

Untold Tales of Blackest Night (Yellow Lantern origin )

Cycle of Violence || Batman: The Dark Knight Vol 2 #10 - #15 (New52 Origin)

Batman ‘66 #28 (’66 Origin)

and his origin(s) are referenced/retold in the following comics  (not in order)

Batman #189

Batman #373

Batman #457

Detective Comics #486

Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #138

Batman/Scarecrow 3D

[damianbugs]

hi saki hiii if it's not 2 much of a bother, do u have a link to a batman reading list w some of the older comics u often talk abt? despite The Disease I've only read maybe 4 actual Bruce Wayne centered runs

-Angel 🫶🏾

HI ANGEL !!! unfortunately i have not yet found a good reading list of older batman comics. most of them are just like "read every single thing published since 1940" and like, okay, fair enough, but also no one wants to do that.

fortunately this gave me an excuse to look through my own fav reads and compile a short list to get you started! the thing about older batman comics is that (personally) they are far more easier to follow compared to modern day comics, so once you get familiar with the older style and layouts, it's so easy to just find the kind of stories you want to read!

most of these are published after the 1970s but all of them are before the New 52 (2011) !!

for a more concise list (+content/trigger warnings) you can find this reading list on my comic geeks.

> Batman: Legends of The Dark Knight

now this collection features over 200 issues and a dozen writers BUT it's because it's full of 2-4 issue short stories. out of these, the ones i recommend most to begin with are; #16-20 (venom), #39-40 (mask), #100 (the choice).

if you like the tone of these, then i would recommend reading the other stories too. great thing is that they're not connected to each other at all, so if you don't like one then you can skip it no problem. i definitely jumped over a few writers and weird stories when reading.

> Batman 1940

now from the main run itself, the advice to just read everything published is not worth it. some of these stories really just drag or are super confusing.

some favourites of mine to start with are; #402-403 (One Batman Too Many), #423 (You Shoulda Seen Him...) and of course, #404-#408 (Batman Year One).

> Detective Comics

now i have always been of the opinion that tec is the better of the two main runs, and you can really see the quality of story telling shine in older comics !

a few of my favourite issues are: #408 (The House That Haunted Batman), #439 (The Night of the Stalker), #457 (There is No Hope in Crime Alley!), #573-574 (My Beginning... and my Probable End) and #598-#600 (Blind Justice).

> The Brave and The Bold

all runs of tbatb runs, whether that be the 1950, 1990, 2007 or even present 2023 run, are so good !!!

for an older story, #93 (published 1970) is my favourite !!

> Batman Black and White

okay so i know i have been giving singular issue recs up until now but i am so serious when i say you should just read every single issue of Batman Black and White. there are three runs, the 1996, 2014 and 2020 with only around 6 issues each. some of the best and truly life changing stories are within it.

in fact, my all time number one favourite batman comic EVER is published in #1 of the 1996 run (Perpetual Mourning). there will never be a batman story ever like it again.

> Other Stories

there was something in the air during the 1990s, because some of the best ever batman stories were published during that time. i fear there has truly never been such a stacked decade like that one.

a few essential must reads from 1980s-1990s; Batman The Cult, Batman: Night Cries, Batman: War on Crime, Batman: The Ultimate Evil, Batman: Son of the Demon.

happy reading!!!!

[plutoslvr]

which tim drake comics would you recommend reading?? I've started off with lonely place if dying but I'm not entirely sure where to go next

okay im so sorry for taking so long to respond it just kept slipping my mind. but the comics i'd recommend after alpod would be the comics in between that and when tim actually gets to be robin ie, the training months in between. those would be:

new titans #65

batman #448

detective comics #615

batman #449

detective comics # 618 - 621

batman #455 - 457

this also includes batman #443 - #445 and batman: bride of the demon, however tim only makes small appearances in these so it's not a big deal if you skip them. once you're done with these you can read some of the bigger events like knightfall, knightquest and knightsend alongside Progidal and of course, tim's own solos (robin (1991) robin ii (1991) and robin iii (1993)).

I hope this is enough to keep you occupied for a while and i hope you have fun reading!

[robjn93]

hi! ^_^

i was wondering if you could help me get into dc comics! i’ve always leaned more towards the movies/shows, video games, and fanon content.

if you have any reading guides at your disposal, i’d really appreciate them! even just naming a few starter comics would be cool.

i hope you don’t mind me asking this of you! i discovered your acc on tiktok and your edits made me wanna get more into the comics when i was formerly disinterested. your characterization takes are also pretty spot on!! :D

thank yew

IM GONNA CRY AND PUKE THANK YOU OMG getting into dc is not difficult but its also pretty challenging depending on which era you wanna read and which family you wanna get into. unfortunately im mainly a batfam-head so i have mostly suggestions about batfamily characters, i hope you wont mind :3

batman: year one is a must in my eyes but i dont see batman: ego advertised nearly as much and it pains me, its a very interesting read on the duality of bruce wayne and batman and an excellent analysis on purpose and motivations

after that, if you wish to continue reading batman related things, i suggest reading about the robins!

batman: year three (batman #436 to #439) serves as a retelling of dick and bruce’s first encounter and its the most used retelling, since it also introduces tim drake but i digress

year ones are your friends! robin: year one and robin/batgirl: year one are stories you should check out but, for the love of christ, keep AWAY from nightwing: year one. i dont know what they were thinking there. if you liked reading these, dick grayson could be the guy for you but, warning i guess, he has lots to read about so make sure to find a good reading guide for him.

after dick quits and becomes nightwing, jason todd is next and luckily the easiest read since he didnt do much except for dying (rip). he is super straight forward, batman: #408 to #425 and detective comics: #568 to #582. a good read for jason and bruce is also batman: the cult!

alas jaybin must die and so here comes a death in the family, batman: #426 to #429. im not a red hood fan personally but batman: under the red hood is kinda a must read. if you liked jason todd, i’m really sorry you’ll never see good writing again

after a death in family, you can read a lonely place of dying when that freak tim drake appears, batman: #440 to #442 alternating with new titans #60 and #61. TOOOOO GOOD. sorry.

tim drake is kinda complicated because the 90s were annoying but you can read detective comics: #618 to #621 and then after batman: #455 to #457 for the important things and him becoming robin most of all. after that the three robin miniseries, robin (1991), robin: the joker’s wild and robin: cry of the huntress are next and finally theres a big one, robin (1993)

if you like tim drake i plan on making a proper reading guide #soon so stay tuned i guess LOL. you cant have tim without stephanie brown, which kinda appears shortly after tim’s initiation as robin. detective comics: #647 to #649 are her origin story, showcase ‘95 #5 is a really underrated stephanie story and then you can just read robin (1993) since she is in there a lot.

i have a stephanie brown reading list ready to be reposted so trust it will be soon! finally damian wayne :3 read batman: son of the demon since its a way better origin for damian over the racist ‘talia is abusive and a r@pist’ morrison retcon.

damian is a really difficult character to get into cause unfortunately most of his stories are racist dogshit but the good stuff is GOOD. robin: son of batman will change your life 5ever. another fun read is robin (2021). to get hooked on daminika.

on the topic of batman’s supporting cast lets go with the batgirls. acknowledged as batgirls, we have barbara gordon tho she is largely more interesting as oracle! i wish you no harm so please don’t read the killing joke, it’s such a lame story and downright misogynistic towards babs.

just let it know that (sigh.) the joker left barbara gordon in a wheelchair. batman: chronicles #5 is genuinely one of the best stories ever, will make you weep and choke and die. after that, birds of prey (1999)’s yuriful antics will charm you.

the current batgirl, cassandra cain, is currently having an ongoing serie! her origin story is in batman: #567 and detective comics: #734. warning: she appears right in the middle of an event called batman: no man’s land so i suggest looking up batman: no man’s land reading guides if its too confusing for context. im really sorry. after that PLEASE read batgirl (2000). too good.

stephanie cheated and managed to be both robin and batgirl so you should read batgirl (2009) which is fairly context-less? or better, they explain most of the context in-comic so it should be fine.

these are the main batfam characters but, throughout reading, you might meet some new and maybe lesser known characters like azrael, huntress, anarky etc. etc.

a read that kinda exists outside all this is also gotham: academy which is quite new reader friendly and genuinely very fun.

hope you have fun :)