#atla ursa meta

[late-draft]

The side-effects showed up before the firebending itself...

[akiizayoi4869]

So the official ATLA YouTube channel posted a video earlier of the mirror scene in the finale, with some added commentary from the Braving The Elements podcast. Something that was said by the director of the upcoming movie, as well as the person who actually worked on that scene back then, Laura Montgomery, was very interesting.

In this scene here:

When Azula turns away from the mirror, Laura was saying that it could be interpreted in two ways: Azula turning around to confront her mother in real time, or, if you realized that Ursa only existed within the mirror and she wasn't actually there, it can be seen as Azula turning her back on her mother. Definitely an interesting way to look at it!

[marinette-buginette]

Kiyi is not a Princess - A Look At the Fire Nation's Line of Succession

It's not even that much about Kiyi. But the creators seemingly got so lost in the sauce that their ideas about how absolutist monarchies work are as good as taken out of Disney movies now. So, let's set the record straight.

The Fire Nation line of succession

When it comes to royal lines, there were multiple elements that went into setting the line of succession: descent, sex, legitimacy, religion etc. For the Fire Nation, the ones we have 100% confirmed are descent and legitimacy (this last one seen with the Camellia-Peony War, where Chaejin was excluded from the succession because he was born out of wedlock). I would have gone on a whim to say sex counts as well, however, it is a bit foggy. In the Reckoning of Roku, it is mentioned that Firelord Taiso believed Zeisan (Sozin's younger sister) would have been a more competent ruler but could never become Fire Lord due to being a nonbender (I didn't actually read the book, so if someone who did wants to pitch in with the exact wording, please feel free to). This implies that being a Firebender is a requirement, but being a woman isn't. However, it also implies that Taiso would have been fine with ignoring the descent part (Sozin was older) if he deemed fit. Skipping the firstborn in favour of the second one isn't unheard of when it comes to succession so sure. And he is the absolute monarch, if he wants to pass papers to change the line of succession, he can. It is unclear to me if there is any power in place to veto or block a Fire Lord's ruling on any matter so for all we know, if he wanted, he could have. Plus, the fact that Ozai got crowned over Iroh because it was 'Azulon's dying wish'. For the religion part, it seems like the Fire Sages have to perform the coronation and acknowledge the monarch.

So to make it more digestible, the line of succession (while Azulon was still alive) is: Iroh → Lu Ten (firstborn of the heir) → Ozai → Zuko → Azula. With Lu Ten dead, Iroh MIA (at the time) then we have Ozai → Zuko → Azula. When Iroh came back, he gets added at the end of this line of succession. I am a bit unclear on Iroh in current times because it looks to me like he rescinded his role in the line of succession altogether with deciding to live in Ba Sing Se and letting politically inexperienced Zuko rule instead of taking over for a few years to create some stability.

Right now, we have Fire Lord Zuko and his heir presumptive (aka an heir that can be displaced if the monarch has children) Azula. Unless he wrote a decree to take her out of the line of succession — which would require a lot more brain cells than the writers are willing to give Zuko, not that he had a lot of them when it came to politics to begin with —then she's next in line. It doesn't matter how much anyone wants it or not, if Zuko drops dead tomorrow, Azula gets the throne.

Now, onto the other matter.

How does one become a Princess?

Option 1: You marry into the royal family. For example, Ursa was styled as a Princess, as she married Prince Ozai.

Option 2: You're born in a royal line. For example, Azula is a Princess because her father is a Prince, her grandfather, at the time of her birth, was the ruling monarch of the Fire Nation etc.

Bonus Option it's complicated: Royals had a habit of having children out of wedlock sometimes. Said children, if acknowledged, could be granted titles (Count of X, Dutchess of Y etc.) . Getting acknowledged and a title does not automatically put you in the line of succession, though. For example, Firelord Chaeryu was forced to acknowledge Chaejin and avoid dishonoring his noble mother and her house, but he excluded Chaejin from the royal family.

So Kiyi is not a Princess. Simple as that. Neither of her parents are of the royal line.

Could she become a Princess?

Well, this gets interesting.

Let's start with the fact that Kiyi got a pretty bad deal in a class-based monarchical society.

First thing, while her mother is a noble, her father is a commoner. Even if Ursa's family became destitute after Roku's death because of political reasons, it does not change the fact that she is still nobility unless Sozin revoked Rina's title, which I am not 100% sure he did. We don't know anything about Jinzuk besides the fact that he was the magistrate of Hira'a. While magistrates do not have to be part of the nobility, they can be. He could have been a second/third/fourth son of a small noble family with limited power/resources, given the position he was given was in a place like Hira'a, which is what I am inclining towards. He could have also been just some guy, but someone appointed him, and as a rule of thumb, you don't just go into the street and pick a random person to appoint to an administrative and leadership role, even if it's a small town. Given that Azulon was set on Ozai marrying Ursa because she was Roku's granddaughter, whether or not Jinzuk was a noble, it doesn't matter all that much in the grand scheme of things. However, in Kiyi's case, it does if Zuko wants to give her a title. It's more stigma than anything because people can be given nobility titles for specific services to the crown etc. But this is not her only issue. Which leads me to...

Second thing, Kiyi is a bastard. Which, in my opinion, would hold even more stigma than her father not being a noble. Ursa never divorced Ozai. As far as we know, polygamist marriages aren't a thing in the Fire Nation, so her marriage to Ikem/Noren is invalid. Could she be granted a divorce retroactively by the Fire Sages? Actually, yeah. Because Zuko named Shyu as High Sage, which was like the one sound political move he ever did tbh. We don't see what the Fire Nation's stance on divorce is, but given that Shyu is a Zuko loyalist, he'd probably grant Ursa retroactive divorce from Ozai. I am not a legal expert, however, as far as I know, retroactive decisions tend to be reserved for correcting a mistake or omission in the written record. She was still married to Ozai when she went and married Ikem. Though technically, she married him under a fake identity (and so did he), which might make the marriage void regardless in the eyes of the law. Idk how Spirit involvement affects legal matters in the world of Avatar, but as things stand right now, unless we pretzel-twist ourselves to make excuses, Kiyi is born outside of legitimate wedlock.

Now, Zuko might not care. In fact, he probably doesn't. He could still give Kiyi a title, including that of Princess. It was not uncommon for illegitimate relatives of rulers to be offered roles/titles once acknowledged. The real question is if he would put her in the line of succession. Kiyi has no business being there because she does not have royal blood.

Could Zuko do whatever he wants, give her the title of Princess and shove her in the line of succession while taking Azula out of it for good measure? Sure, he can. He'd probably love that, in fact. But that leaves two things open.

One, nobility would not take kindly to a bastard child of a commoner with no royal blood being in the line of succession. If we also add the angle of taking Azula out of it, it would just increase their ire. There is already a long list of why the nobility is probably angry at Zuko (and should attempt to assassinate him a lot more than they do), but I think this one in particular has other implications. There might be nobles who are neutral about Zuko. Shamelessly discarding societal norms on a whim might make their perspective swing towards negative. It could make him lose goodwill he might have or potential allies.

Two, it will make the commoners wonder. If this random girl, raised as a peasant, with a commoner father, born out of wedlock, can be put in the line of succession just like that — while discarding a princess of the blood if we are at it — then… is the royal line not that special? The whole premise of a monarchy is that the monarch and their descendants have the divine right to rule. Being part of that bloodline gives you the right to rule. So if that can be discarded, if that bloodline is not all that important… should Zuko be Firelord? And most importantly, does the Fire Nation really need a monarch at all?

Kiyi is not a princess, and for the well-being of Zuko's reign — which is already barely holding together — he better not make her one.

[theoneandonlylobster]

My Big Damn Ashes of the Academy Thoughts

Okay so honestly I just need to take this panel by panel because frankly my overall impression of the comic is that everyone got replaced Invasion of the Body Snatchers style with people that look the same as they do and have the same name, but have zero idea of the backgrounds or motivations of said characters, and so they were just making shit up as they went along. Like, I write fanfic, I read fanfic. I have, in general, a pretty high regard for fanfic. And of course one of the more common Dangerous Ladies childhood type fics is how did they meet, why are these three very different individuals friends, etc etc.

And this was not even approaching the worst, crappiest, least coherent of that type of fiction I've read over the last nearly two decades.

Ashes of the Academy is a giant nothing burger comic, a fart in an elevator you're trapped with until you can make your escape.

So, without further ado, let's begin:

So right here on the second page of the comic, and the first page with dialogue, we have Ursa letting us know that, apparently, contrary to what we know, the Academy made Azula a bad person. Not her parents, definitely definitely not Ursa. You got that? It was all the Academy's fault. And we will continue beating that ostrich horse the entire rest of the comic, make no mistake!

Ah yes, Ursa, noted Not Ever An Imperialist At All, Not Even Once, Nuh-Uh.

Skipping several pages that would be me saying these two things multiple times...

Credit where credit is due, I like these two panels. I like this tiny glimpse into the friendship of Kiyi and Lihua or whatever here. One, because I imagine this is more like how Azula probably actually was, based on what we see in Zuko Alone. And two, that means Kiyi is unconsciously mirroring her sister and I like that interpretation of her character. It seems that Hicks does too, on a subconscious level. Look at that devious little look on her face! Little shit. Yeah, you cause a ruckus! Adorable.

I'd be lying if I said this didn't get a chuckle out of me. Is Katara on Zuko's Ministry of Education? Lol wtf. Still funny though.

More Kiyi being a little shit that I can get behind. This time in a Little Miss Know-It-All superiority complex sense that I'm sure would get real old real fast for anyone around her.

I've pointed this out on another post but Kiyi isn't a princess? Wtf? Come on, Hicks. Like it's not hard to figure this shit out. I think giving her a character trait of literally running to her big brother the Firelord anytime she feels slighted is pretty good, but of course it's never explored, because that's not a heroic trait and Kiyi has to be a hero for some reason unlike that irredeemable monster Azula who was born bad.

So nice of you to ask her first Zuko! Fuck's sake! Being Firelord has really gotten to this boy's head, like I know he has absolute power and all that shit but damn, if I was Mai, I would be wanting to get back with him less after this, not more, regardless of whether or not I liked the job in the end. Fucking consent, bro! (Previous page has him telling the headmistress she'll do it.) Unfortunately, this is actually not ooc for what we've seen of Zuko, honestly, imo. Mai, you can do so much better. Like, I ship Maiko. I love their dynamic etc etc. But girl. Respect yourself. This boy is NOT it at this point.

This is our continuing indication that they'll be rewriting the past in this comic, and we'd all better get on board. Zuko certainly thinks Azula treated him badly and has a very, "Zuko did nothing wrong!" approach to it all, but Mai was there for the vast majority of it, witnessed it with her own two eyes, so she would not react to that sentence with, "True." She just wouldn't. At least not the Mai we know. So let the assassination of Mai’s character commence!

Like, was this comic so half-assed nobody could be bothered to look up the spelling of Ukano's name? Yes. Yes it was.

Can I be made to believe Ukano said this to Mai when she was smol? Absolutely, yes. He's portrayed as a social climber and willing to utilize basically any route he can access to gain clout and influence. That's a man who is not above using his daughter in this way. I think it's somewhat implied by Mai’s dialogue in The Beach, even. Dude was a shitty father, Caldera was rife with them. Do I believe for one second Mai became friends with Azula because of this counsel? Absolutely not. The Mai we know thinks for herself 100% of the time, it's basically her thing.

Oh, cool, there's a 10 image per post limit. Well. I'll keep going in reblogs and indicate when I'm done. Bear with me, friends.

[missaccuracy]

In "Zuko Alone," I noticed that Ursa never calls Azula affectionately, unlike Zuko, whom she calls "darling". At the same time, Ozai calls Azula "my dear," but never calls Zuko that. I think this is interesting and shows which parent is closer to which child. What do you think about that?

Indeed, I've always thought it to be DELIBERATE that we see Ursa using affectionate language with Zuko and Ozai with Azula, but not the other way around.

Ozai calls Azula "my dear", but whenever he addresses Zuko, he almost always calls him "prince Zuko". Ursa also takes a more official tone when addressing Azula, calling her "young lady".

We have no evidence of Ursa calling Azula endearingly on screen, but at the same time, I honestly don't think that she never did that with Azula.

What I personally think happened is that Ursa used to use affectionate language with Azula, when she was younger, just like Ozai used to do with Zuko, but with time, they both stopped, when Ozai started to see the sides of Zuko he didn't like and Ursa started to see the sides of Azula she didn't like.

I think this subtle characterization element in Zuko Alone shows which parent understands which child better. With Ozai, it's obvious that he started to resent Zuko, and with Ursa, I don't think she hated Azula, but she didn't understand her and started to instinctively keep distance from her, paying more attention to Zuko, which unfortunately, contributed to a horrible result for Azula in the end.

[nargg1]

Azula Redemption arc need to be A lonely journey

She need to travel the four nations,and learn more about life and history

Azula need someone to Guides her but instead of an iroh, she can gain diffrent wisdoms from diffrent people around the world instead of just one person yapping around

Maybe you will say azula was always alone why you wants her to continue alone?

Because of diffrent reasons

Not everyone has the luck to have people on their side and in the end the only person that can actually help you... Is YOU!

i think this a good lesson because azula deep down wanted her family to save her ( and ofcaurse she is right to feel this way)

The second reason is azula afraid of being alone and she need to face her fear

If zuko is the better virson of ozai, then azula is the better version of iroh

Azula is a child soldier in a world with no wars, they don't want her anymore , she has been discared the second the war ended

Azula dosen't know anything other than being a child soldier, So she need to learn how to be more than a soldier of her nation, a weapon of her father and a monster of her mother or even the crazy of zuko and iroh

And After she learn all of this she need to learn how to be anti Imperialism

I wouldn't put any romance, because alot of writers fell on the idea of making her redeem herself for the person she love

But no azula should redeem herself for azula herself not for a company or a nation or anyone els! ( yes armstrong refrence)

Azula should be away from her family, far away, Especially they are not intersted in redeeming her or even treating as a human who have dreams

Zuko will probably thinks azula wants to take him down and will keep her under the watch all day long and try to keep her under his control

Ursa will probably yapping about how she is sorry and try to talk

No seriously, do you think talking things out can heal anything?, and ursa would want from azula to set and do nothing while zuko having all the praize

Can azula have a relationship with her family?

Yes she can but it's actually isn't something she should do from her side

But it's something ursa and zuko should do and work for from their side, they need to change, if they wants a relationship with her they need to work for it, very hard

But from my point of veiw, i really can't see any Scenarios when they have a relationship

And even if they have it's won't be that strong and will be better if they have distance between each other

ofcaurse After all of this azula need to make freinds, finds her destiny, making her dreams and desires come true etc

Also i want azula to have her animal companian throughout her travels 👉👈

I wouldn't say this a fanfic, but that what i really wants in the main story

[sunday-good-enough]

The thing about Azula and Ursa is that it doesn't matter if Ursa really did love her, because Azula still felt like she was unloved by her mother.

Kids don't get ideas from nowhere. Kids don't wake up one day and suddenly start thinking their mother thinks they're a monster with no prior evidence. What led Azula to believe Ursa thought that of her? What led her to believe she loved Zuko more?

The issue with Azula is that she truly believes, deep in her heart, that she was unloved by everybody in her life. Regardless of whether or not they 'actually' loved her, they didn't show it enough for it to latch onto her. That in itself is a problem.

[ilikepjo24]

On The Ashes of the Academy...

This will be a full review/analysis of the newest atla comic, now that I finally got my hands on it. I'll duel on some things more than others but overall, I'll share my unfiltered thoughts and feelings about it.

SpoliersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilers!

First things first, this is such a hit-and-miss.

We're all glad Ursa is looking after Kiyi and we're all glad she sees that there was somthing wrong with Azula's upbringing, but ma'am, the school is not the problem. Sure, a bad learning environment doesn't benefit children in any way, but Azula's main problem was what was happening in her home, not in her school. Maybe, since you're finally considering taking a look in your daughter's childhood, you should also start looking inside and taking note of where you failed her. This just seems like an attempt at making Ursa look blameless by saying "Oh, look, Azula isn't inherently evil, it's her school that messed her up. Certainly, Zuko's perfect mom didn't contribute to it at all!"

I mean, if you want my opinion, you lost her when you subconsciously decided to give her less attention than Zuko, which, tragically, could have been before she was even born. But this series of panels, once again, does the same thing I mentioned above; passing the responsibility around. Ursa didn't lose Azula to someone or something. She let her go. And that's assuming that she even had Azula is the first place, at any point, which could be just wishful thinking. While Ozai, and the FN as a whole played a part, Ursa can't keep viewing them as the only parties responsible instead of holding herself accountable.

Zuko pisses me off her as well because he's doing the exactly same thing, but in a different way. He removes responsibility from Ursa, but instead of placing it on the school or his father, he seems to place it on Azula's very own nature, implying that her problem was just that she was Azula, and other kids under similar circumstances would have done better, simply because they are not Azula, which is simply not true. Azula's problem isn't that she's Azula, it's that she is a product of systematic propaganda and domestic abuse and neglect.

It must take lots of nerve to hire a person that's a product of Ozai's rule, that actively and publicly supports Ozai's way of doing things, and then being bothered and flabbergasted that this person wants to do things Ozai's way. Zuko, my man, hire a new headmistress. I've seen this lady once and I know better than to trust her. Are all that survival instincts Zuko ever had sliding right off his smooth, shiny brain? Either he is actively trying to sabotage himself, or he's just that stupid.

DOGSHIT. Arguably the most annoying thing about this comic, methinks. Such a lazy way of trying to redeem Mai. I understand that she's meant to be Zuko's love intrest, so she needs to be good and support his deals, but FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, this must be the worst way to do it. This is just anti-Azula propaganda by this point.

If you want to redeem a character, hot take, actually redeem them. Instead of actually moving forward with Mai's character, they're backpetaling. Instead of adding redeeming qualities, they are removing the bad ones in an underhanded way. Very lazy, very bad writing. Both Mai and Azula deserve better than this.

I have way too many thoughts about these bit specifically, but this is an overall review of the comic, so I don't want to duel on one thing apecifically. I' ll talk more about everything that I hate about this "twist" in regards to Mai's character and her relationship with Azula in a different post on a different day.

Can't wait to show this to the "Azula is abusive for thowing fire at an apple that was on top of Mai's head" people. Behold! Mai started throwing dangerous shit at Azula first. This is them becoming friends. If Azula is abusive for continuing the tradition, what does tha make Mai, the one who started it?

This is more amusing to me than frustrating, if I'm being honest. They are trying so hard to make Azula out to be this inherently evil hell creature, that they don't even realize how terribly they're failing. The only thing making this interaction intimidating is framing. Azula is genuinly just being a normal kid here. Seriously, I dare you to antagonize a kid and count the minutes until they pull the parent card. I've had kids tell me that their parent works in the environment of political figures and can get me fired unless I let them run wild. Children are terribly aware of their powerlessness even if they don't show it. Borrowing mommy and daddy's "power" to wield as a threat is very typical behavior, especially in new environments. Azula isn't any more evil than any other first grader is. Which, to be fair, is reletavily evil, dependend on who you ask XD.

"Being friends with her sucked. Yeah, she was the only person I had growing up that made me feel like I mattered, since my dad used me and my mom wanted me to be an unemotional porcelain doll, but she was evil."

Two faced. Too fake. Do better. I am officially a certified Mai hater.

At this point, Mai confuses me. On one hand, she acts as if Azula is the antichrist and being mean just for the hell of it. Then, when Kiyi asks, she seems to display some actual understanding towards Azula's situation. Seems to acknowledge that who Azula is right now is the handywork of a third party, the intentions of which Azula herself doesn't fully understand, but blindly follows anyway because what else can she really do? The third party includes the only parent that pays attention to her after all.

Listen closely, because I will say this once. I better not see any of you haters blame Azula for this. "Oh, Azula is still trying to take the throne-" Shut your bitch ass up. Azula is not talking to those guys. She's working with her Fire Warriors and has no interactions with those dudes. Their actions do not reflect on her in any way, shape, or form. Them waiting for her doesn't mean she's working with them or that she has promised them anything at all. They're popping off in the assumption that she's coming back and the assumption that she'll reward them when she does. Key word beinh assumption.

And that will be all for now folks. All in all, this comic sucked. It attempts to redeem Mai and to demonize Azula and, franky, it fails at both those tasks as far as I'm conserned.

I do have that the empathy Mai showcased towards Azula is the begining of something. That her new role as a teacher and her mission of helping clean up the rooten system that raised Azula will develop into a teaching moment for the cast and the fandom. That it'll show them that Azula isn't inherently evil and therefore not beyond redemption. I genuinely hope that, eventually, we'll get the redemption Hicks teased in The Spirit Temple and that she's just playing the long game.

But for that to happen, some things have to change. The sytematic abuse needs to be showcased even more. We need to see the neglect Azula endured at home. Ursa needs to be held accountable for her failures. Azula should be given the chance to be a kid, not a weapon. I want to see a comic taking place before she displayed her firebending abilities for the first time.

Do better, Hicks.

[zuko-always-lies]

Azula is the family member Zuko cares the least about, by far [and no, it's not because she's mean to him and no, this is not a post about Zuko's morality or anything like that]

So the entire premise of Zuko's arc is he spends years and years trying to regain his father's love and appreciation, that he spent three years trying to capture the Avatar so that his father would like him again. We even see in a flashback that exiled Zuko misses his father badly.

And when Zuko decides to completely break off his relationship with his father, he decides that this merits a dramatic confrontation, since his relationship with Ozai is so important to him. Even after that, the second to last scene of the series is Zuko visiting Ozai.

Zuko often takes Iroh and his support for granted, but even in Books 1 and 2 there are plenty of moments which act to reaffirm how much Zuko values and appreciates his uncle. He goes out of his way to protect his uncle on a couple occasions. And in Book 3, after Zuko has screwed up his relationship with Iroh, one of Zuko's core motivations becomes fixing his relationship with his uncle and regaining Iroh's love, trust, and appreciation.

Ursa is someone who Zuko talks about far less, yet the series makes it very clear how much Zuko misses her, with "Zuko Alone" and "The Earth King" and "The Day of Black Sun: The Eclipse." And the second to last scene in the series is Zuko trying to find her.

That leaves Azula. Zuko never seems to miss Azula the least, even though he hasn't seen her for years when the series begins. In fact, when she unexpectedly shows up and greets him, instead of being happy to see her, he's angry and suspicious (to be fair to Zuko, she did turn out to have ulterior motives due to Ozai's orders, but if he really deeply missed her, he'd probably be at least a little happy to see her regardless. Mai and Ty Lee reacted with joy the first time they saw Azula again). And in Books 2 and 3, there is essentially nothing to suggest that Zuko misses the better relationship he had with Azula when they were younger.

For instance, in "The Beach," Zuko angsts over an old photograph of his family.

His eyes focus on Ozai

and he remembers a happy memory associated with Ozai:

and then Zuko's eyes focus on Ursa

and he remembers a happy memory associated with her

Yet Zuko never looks at younger Azula in that picture, nor does he think of her at all. The "Happy Family" that Zuko misses includes Ozai, Ursa, and even Iroh and Lu Ten (shown in a separate memory sequence at little earlier), but not little Azula.

Ultimately, what we see in the first half of Book 3 is that Zuko is willing to take advantage of Azula's kindness, when she shows it to him, but he never acknowledges it, thanks her for it, or reciprocates in the slightest.

In the end, in the DoBS Zuko leaves Azula behind without a regret or even a thought. Ozai gets a big confrontation; Azula gets nothing. And after that, we see that Zuko misses Mai, and still feels complex feelings for Ozai ("Fatherlord," anyone?), but there's nothing to suggest he misses Azula at all or feels a deep attachment to her. The penultimate scene of the show even features Zuko visiting Ozai, not Azula.

Some people might point out that Azula is a bad sister to Zuko. That's definitely true. She says and does plenty of awful things to him over the series.

Yet that doesn't explain things. Ozai is far, far worse to Zuko than Azula ever is, yet Zuko cares deeply about Ozai to the degree that Zuko's entire arc is about it. Merely talking about "look how mean Azula is" explains almost nothing. Is possible to explain why

This does bring me to my main point. The ATLA fandom tends to believe that Zuko cares about Azula a lot and that he places a lot of value in having a good relationship with her, tends to believe that Zuko is obsessed with Azula.

However, the reality is that Zuko by far cares about Azula the least of any member of his family and that he places almost no value on having a good relationship with her. She is never a priority for him and is at most only an obstacle. All of Zuko's other family members loom far higher in Zuko's priorities and headspace than Azula. And if he is obsessed with her, it's not in a loving way. Maybe "Azula the enemy" and "Azula my advisor and emotional caretaker" are significant to him, but "Azula my sister" never seems to be.

Again, this isn't a moral judgement, merely a fact.

[isthei]

my fav dynamics in atla are. not ships?? the platonic interactions are so so compelling, just as if not more compelling than the ships. i love u fire siblings tragically destroying each other. i love u water siblings torn apart by gender and brought together by love. i love u ursa being a complicated person. i love u uncle iroh possibly projecting lu ten on zuko. i love u toph’s horrible relationship with her parents. i love u aang’s conflict with the past avatars

[recovering-dungeon-lord]

I’ve been wanting to make a post about this for a while, because I keep seeing this ongoing debate in the ATLA fandom over whether or not Ursa loved Azula/was a good mother to her, and I haven’t seen a lot of people talk about this aspect of it. I don’t think Ursa was a perfect mother by any means, but I do think she did the best she could under the (terrible) circumstances, and I do think she loved Azula. But more importantly, I think that deep down Azula herself knows this.

She insists that her mother didn’t love her, but to me it seems so obvious that this idea comes from Ozai, that it’s a lie he used to manipulate his daughter. He wanted her to believe he was the only one she could rely on, and more importantly, that he was the only one who could ever love her. On the surface, Azula does believe that her mother didn’t love her. She tells anyone who will listen, she uses it to justify the pain and the rage that fuel her cruelty. She tells herself she believes it’s Ursa’s fault over and over again because it’s easier than admitting the truth: that Ozai is using her and always has been, that her pain and rage come from Ozai’s abuse and the isolation he’s caused her.

But think about what happens at the end of season 3. Ozai tosses Azula to the side. For the first time, he shows his cards and treats her like the pawn he’s always secretly thought of her as. And all of Azula’s doubts come bubbling to the surface. Her entire life has been a lie. She becomes paranoid and thinks everyone is out to get her. She starts hallucinating visions of her mother, taunting her.

And what does this version of Ursa taunt her with? If Azula really, truly believed that Ursa never loved her and only cared about Zuko, you’d think it would be something like “I knew you’d turn out to be a monster” or “Zuko was always better than you.” But it isn’t. It’s “I love you, Azula.” Because that is Azula’s greatest fear. She’s afraid that this thing, this shield of ‘my mother never loved me’ that she’s been using to justify everything, is a lie.

If Ursa actually did love her, then what was it all for? All the anger, all the cruelty, all the things she did to impress Ozai, to earn his love, were for nothing. Not only because he was using her as a pawn the whole time, but because she could have had that love all along, from Ursa. If her mom loved her, then she’s spent most of her life twisted up inside, causing pain and suffering and destruction, over the pursuit of something she already had. And I think that terrifies her more than anything else, because somewhere inside her she knows it’s true.

[five-flavor-soup]

I personally think that basing your interpretation of how Ursa treated Azula on Zuko’s memories shown in ‘Zuko Alone’ is kind… incorrect. You can obviously — they’re the only real images of their childhood we get in the cartoon, other than the tiniest of snapshots in sepia — and that’s fine, but for me personally I just don’t think they’re complete enough.

These memories are from Zuko’s perspective. Not Ursa’s, not Azula’s, not Ozai’s or Iroh’s—Zuko’s perspective, his memories. And they’re all about him and Ursa together: every one of these memories have Ursa at their centre. We see her protect him and be kind to him, see her be physically affectionate and gentle, see her encourage him to be kind to himself and to Azula.

They essentially tell us that Zuko is Ursa’s son first, Ozai’s son second. Ozai remains a hovering, intimidating shadow on the sidelines (we still don’t see his face, we don’t see him genuinely interact with his children, and we see him irritating his father while being a very hands-off kinda dad himself) but Ursa is fully present. And ‘Zuko Alone’ is about Zuko trying to figure out who he is: the memories show that he views being his mother’s son as an exceptionally important part of his identity, which means they are about Zuko and his relationship with Ursa alone.

They are not supposed to tell us that Ursa neglected or abused Azula emotionally—that she only focused on protecting Zuko, while leaving Azula to suffer in Ozai’s incapable hands. Sure, we see Ursa scold Zuko for acting like Azula and cuddle him right after, and we see her scold Azula for acting mean and not cuddle her right after, but the key differences here are that Zuko shows guilt after frightening the turtleducks and Azula doubles down on trying to scare Zuko. The behaviour is different and will be, by any halfway decent parent, treated differently. 

I’m absolutely not saying that Azula wasn’t abused, because she 100% was. She was absolutely abused by Ozai, and I’m not ruling out that Ursa didn’t have a hand in how Azula ultimately turned out. But my point here is: these memories are far too limited and narrow for the viewer to properly determine whether Azula was treated incorrectly by Ursa. 

Zuko isn’t going to remember an intimate, lovely moment between Ursa and Azula when all that’s on his mind is his identity, and how it’s entangled with his mother and what she may have sacrificed for him. Additionally, he’s not particularly fond of Azula at this moment in the show (she did kind of kickstart his being a refugee, disregarding how the audience sees this sequence of events having begun), so he’s not going to remember her fondly either. Why would Zuko try to remember Ursa’s relationship with Azula at that point, instead of his own?

(Small tidbit: we also... don't know if Ursa's last words to Azula were 'what is wrong with that child', disregarding the comics which completely ruin azula anyway. Again, the memories are from Zuko's perspective and therefore won't show any private moments between Ursa and Azula. We're not even certain whether Azulon actually ordered Ozai to kill Zuko, or if that is simply what Azula interpreted it as/thought would be funny to say--causing the sequence of events that ultimately put Ozai on the throne. But whatever)

[akiizayoi4869]

Just had a thought about this line. After Azula says this, Zuko doesn't say anything to try and deny it. Which is what you would expect him to do since what she's saying is technically an insult to his favorite person in the world. The fact that he says nothing says one of two things:

Zuko himself thinks that Azula is a monster, and thus sees nothing wrong with what she just said.

He doesn't say anything because from what he can remember about Ursa and Azula before their mother disappeared, they never had a positive interaction between each other, and that Ursa always treated Azula differently. So regardless of whether or not Ursa actually said that to Azula, her actions towards her made that way of thinking perfectly clear.

Also worth noting that absolutely nothing in canon says that Azula's way of thinking about her mother is wrong. I know that people like to use the mirror scene as proof, but here's the thing about that: it's a hallucination of Ursa. An image from Azula's mind, that is saying things that Azula wants to hear in that moment, things that she wishes her mother had said to her back when she was a child. Positive reinforcement that she always gave to Zuko no matter what he did. Particularly the "I love you, Azula. I do" part. Because out of everything else, Azula desperately wanted her mother to love her. And she never felt that she did.

[phoenix-king-ozai]

The Ozai, Ursa, & Ikem romance debacle…

I truly honestly hope that the Netflix adaptation doesn’t adapt The Search when it comes to Ozai and Ursa’s relationship. Which, thank Agni seems not to fully be the case. It seems that LA Ozai does care for Ursa and his family members, even Zuko. He show respect to Lu Ten and Iroh and even cried when burning Zuko. He even mentioned the “soft” mother Ursa when talking to Zuko and referenced her when saying “don’t talk to me about loss” Showing that he had feeling for her.

The Search is very poorly written and turn Ozai into a very piss-poor caricature of an evil abusive bad man for no good or compelling reason yet even fails to deliver on that interpretation of Ozai and Ursa’s complex and compelling relationship.

This song is basically the Urzai relationship in the ATLA comics!

If The Search wanted to turn Ozai into a compelling, vicious, dangerous, and cruel monstrous villain in Ursa’s and our own eyes. Then why didn’t Yang have Ozai kill Ikem when he THREATENED his father, Fire Lord’s Azulon life in defiance due to his love for Ursa? Yet, for some reason, he had Ozai spare Ikem’s life due to Ursa's “love” for Ozai which Ozai knows is a blatant lie and stupidly desperate!

The realistic and emotionally heart-wrenching scenario would be for Ozai to march towards Ikem, Ursa tries to stop Ozai, however Ozai scarred Ursa’s wrist by burning her via firebending and then backhanded her causing her lip to bleed. Then proceed to execute Ikem by immolation in front of Ursa’s very eyes. This very demented, sinister, vile, and cruel brutal punishment for DARING to raise his hand against Fire Lord Azulon, Fire Prince Ozai, and the Fire Sages wishes would had created a compelling narrative regarding Ursa having complete and justified loathing of her betroth Ozai.

It was extremely foolish, idiotic, unreasonable, and unrealistic to have a no-named peasant like Ikem, who is not a firebender, attack the royal carriage and guards no matter how brave and noble his affection and intentions were regarding the integrity of his childhood love. Fire Lord Azulon and Fire Prince Ozai probably should have immediately immolated Ikem and his familial relations due to his affront against the Fire Lord and his son. Trying to stand up against the authoritarian, oppressive, violent, and vicious absolute monarchical regime of Fire Lord Azulon and Fire Prince Ozai should have come with immense consequences just like the fire nation rebels in Episode 3: Omashu in NATLA.

Zuko mentions that Ozai and Ursa’s along with their family used to be happy, and we saw that in Zuko's flashbacks. Yang, just decided to make Ursa a victim because in his mind: URSA WOMAN, OZAI BAD MAN, SHE MUST BE HELD, HOSTAGE!!! While Ozai and Ursa arrange marriage does make sense and was confirmed by the creators. It doesn't mean that Ozai and Ursa relationship was ALWAYS BAD, or SHE WAS KIDNAPPED! Plus, the Urzai relationship is quite normal in the antiquity of Asian societies that the Fire Nation is based on aka Shogunates of Japan and Imperial Chinese Dynasties!!!

Personally, I am afraid that the ATLA comics are going to screw up the Fire Nation Royal Family Characterization and Dynamics along with making them one-dimensional especially Ozai and Azulon. They might legit have Azulon and Ozai be abusive and beat Ilah and Ursa. I'm so doomer blackpilled regarding ATLA comics considering the Serach. This is probably why the comic writers ignore making a comic Pre-Zuko Alone flashbacks.

Ozai's harshness and ruthless regarding Zuko has nothing to do with Ursa or Ikem forbidden love! Ozai wants Zuko and Azula to both prove themselves. Ozai doesn't favor Zuko or Azula. It is about which child will succeed Sozin, Azulon, and his legacy as future Fire Lord. In fact, Ozai doesn't want Zuko or Azula to think that they are the “favorite” child. He wants Azula and Zuko to improve through competition. Because of the “only the greatest of pressures can forge diamonds” & “steel sharpen steel” mentality. Ozai has the mentality of an imperialist warlord. Ozai isn't trying to be the world's most loving and caring father but rather continue and build upon a powerful and dominant legacy that his forefathers had created before him. He wants Zuko & Azula to be cold, ruthless, heartless, vicious, and brutal imperialistic warmongers like him (Ozai), his father (Azulon), and his grandfather (Sozin).

[firenaition]

just threw up thinking about how azula grew up thinking ozai's unyielding discipline was love

[missaccuracy]

Taking those awful comics into account, I have zero clue why Ozai simply didn't kill Zuko after Ursa left. It's clear at this point Zuko is a 'disappointment' and Azula is passing expectations with flying colors. If anything Ozai should've been looking at Zuko sideways when he realized Zuko isn't catching up like he wants and trying to get rid of him so Azula can take his spot as she is more useful. Just wait a few months when Azulon's death dies down, let Zuko have a totally not staged 'accident' and boom, Azula is heir, problem child out of the way, Ozai gets what he wants with zero drawback.

Yeah, it doesn't make sense for a comics Ozai to keep Zuko alive, other than that Ozai probably still wanted to keep his only male heir.

In the show, though, there are more explanations to this.

The thing is, this would be a logical thing to do IF Ozai wanted to get rid of Zuko. Interestingly, though, in the show, Ozai actually wanted to make Zuko his heir. Yes, Zuko didn't meet his expectations, but when Ozai found out that Zuko supposedly killed the avatar and helped Azula take Ba Sing Se, he immediately accepted him as his heir and during the meeting, Zuko was at Ozai's right hand.

Ozai hated Zuko, because he wasn't a capable heir in his eyes, but deep down, he wanted Zuko to be one. And as soon as Zuko "became" the prince Ozai would approve of, Ozai instantly gave him his approval and support, even if it was purely conditional.

Azula was likely a last resort for Ozai, if Zuko would prove himself as completely untrustworthy. And it shows, given that he named Azula Fire Lord only after Zuko betrayed the FN and Azula herself is rather surprised that Ozai gave her this title.

Also, another reason why I think Ozai didn't kill Zuko in the show, is that it was hinted that Ursa and Ozai had a good early relationship. He didn't kill Zuko after she left, bacause he had likely promised Ursa that Zuko won't die and maybe he kept this promise out of some feelings he still had left for Ursa.