#ozai meta

[balanceoflightanddark]

I feel one of the scariest things about Ozai is not necessarily the physical abuse he pulls on Zuko or Azula. It's the mental abuse and how under the radar it is.

Yes, it is easy to look at Zuko's scar and be horrified by his abuse. What I feel is more effective was that Ozai made Zuko believe that he deserved it. That he had to go on this three-year odyssey to try and find the Avatar for a chance at gaining his love back. Their reunion isn't about Ozai apologizing. It's Ozai saying how proud he is of Zuko for making up for HIS mistake. He doesn't mention the Agni Kai at all, and when Zuko does turn, he tries to make it sound like some exercise in learning respect.

Same thing with Azula. Ozai puts the mantle of Fire Lord on her shoulders, effectively giving her the responsibility of running a country. He puts on so much pressure to have her to be perfect (pitting her against Zuko, sending her out on missions). The only approval that he gives is for her performance which reflects on him. Basically, he treats her more like an asset more than as a person. And any failing she makes is on her part.

He puts so much responsibility on both Zuko and Azula, but never takes any for himself. So if they displease his high expectations, that's their fault.

And they believe him.

[dragomer]

"Azula & Zuko are to be treated like they're worth rehabilitating/giving a second chance but Ozai isn't because he's adult" argument sounds like ageism to be tbh.

Is Ozai even treated like that? Zuko basically tells him 'Maybe now you can reflect and become a better person' in the show.

Fucking Iroh had his redemption well into adulthood too.

Thanks for the ask ^^

[missaccuracy]

Do you agree with this take about Ozai?

https://www.tumblr.com/phoenix-king-ozai/662589960179810304/ozai-did-love-and-care-about-his-family-in-the?source=share

I understand where this comes from, I've seen takes similar to this one a couple of times, however, I only partially agree.

The thing about abusers is that they're humans too, so there can be some good moments and happy memories with them, but that doesn't necessarily mean they genuinely loved you. People point to the flashbacks as a proof that Ozai had complex feelings towards his children, but I think he never really cared about them in a way we understand it.

I think in Ozai's case, he didn't truly love their children, BUT, as a human, he just had some parental instinct towards them, as shown when Ozai saved Zuko.

But to me, Ozai is still a clear case of a narcissistic parent and parents like this never love their children unconditionally. We've seen that later in the show Ozai gives his children only conditional approval.

I think Ozai's early care for Zuko also stemmed from the fact that he wasn't seen by him as a lost cause yet. I think the time when Ozai showed kindness to Zuko, was a time when Ozai still hoped Zuko would prove himself.

His later resentment of Zuko comes from the fact, that, in his eyes Zuko isn't a capable heir. He isn't a prodigy firebender, he's not tactical, he doesn't demonstrate great political skills. Zuko doesn't have any of he skills Ozai values.

Ozai welcomed Zuko back after his banishment, because Zuko has finally become what Ozai always wanted.

Same with Azula. As long as she answered to his expectations, he showed her some resemblance of "care", but after he found out she lied to him, I think he became displeased with her and abandoned her in the end. (But she's still his only heir left, so he gave her the position of the fire lord as a way to "shut her up" and still keep her by his side).

We see that all love Ozai has for his children is conditional. And I believe there was a one more reason as to why Ozai semeed to care for his children in the past, but became cold to them later.

This post correctly points to Ozai and Ursa having a good early relationship in canon. Maybe Ozai hadn't lost his feelings towards Ursa, but when she's gone, there was no one to keep his cruelty in check anymore.

When Ursa was present, Ozai tried to be better and make it all work, but she still couldn't tame his ambitions and after she left, it was like all of his soft feelings he may have towards his family and his children were gone with her.

[zuko-always-lies]

Respect and the Zuko-Ozai Agni Kai

"The Storm"

Iroh: Iroh After Zuko's outburst in the meeting, the Fire Lord became very angry with him. [Flashback quickly ends.] He said the challenge against the general was an act of complete disrespect! And there was only one way to resolve this. Iroh: That's right. Zuko looked upon the old general he had insulted and declared that he was not afraid. But Zuko misunderstood... Zuko had spoken out against the general's plan, but by doing so in the Fire Lord's war room, it was the Fire Lord whom he had disrespected. Ozai: You will fight for your honor. Young Zuko: [Frontal shot; kneels on his knees and forearms, while looking at the floor.] I meant you no disrespect. [Gazes up at his father, tears shimmering in his eyes as his voice starts to waver.] I am your loyal son. Ozai[: Far off frontal shot of Zuko as Ozai's shadow and eventually his head come into view.] Rise and fight, Prince Zuko! Ozai: You will learn respect, [Zuko pushes himself up on his knees and hands. Cut to a frontal shot of Zuko as he starts to shake.] and suffering will be your [Zuko looks up at Ozai, tears streaming down his face.] teacher. Iroh: It was no accident. After the duel, the Fire Lord said that by refusing to fight, Zuko had shown shameful weakness. As punishment, he was banished and sent to capture the Avatar. Only then could he return with his honor.

It's interesting to what degree "The Storm" narrative emphasizes the idea that the reason why Ozai dueled and burned Zuko is because Ozai found Zuko's actions disrespectful. It's not about Zuko being "soft-hearted" or "kind" or "anti-imperialist" or even about Ozai looking for an opportunity to get rid of Zuko, it's about Ozai perceiving Zuko's actions as disrespectful. Even the "shameful weakness" is probably partially a problem because Zuko is "disrespecting" the FN tradition of Agni Kai by refusing to fight after he'd agreed to and perhaps partially a problem since Zuko refused to respect Zuko's own honor by fighting to defend it.

Another interesting thing is while Ozai obsesses over Zuko's respect or disrespect, brining it up again in the DoBS, Azula just doesn't care. Unlike her father, she just doesn't care if Zuko is respectful or not. The only thing which matters to her in the end is whether Zuko is loyal or not.

[justanotherthrowaway1950]

Sadly, I can top the take on aang and being the main character.

(tw abuse) I once saw someone straight up argue that lok Aang is like Ozai.

But how though? Even in the most uncharitable interpretation possible, Aang was only neglectful towards Bumi II and Kya II and overbearing towards Tenzin because he had to make sure that Tenzin could pass on Air Nomad culture to his descendants and airbending to both his descendants and future Avatars. Meanwhile, Ozai was emotionally, verbally, and physically abusive towards Zuko and emotionally abusive towards Azula solely due to his imperial ambitions. Furthermore, Ozai even attempted to kill Zuko no less than three times and was willing to use both his kids as collateral against Ursa.

Despite having daddy issues well into their 50s, Aang's kids grow up to be mostly well-adjusted individuals who make positive contributions to society. Moreover, they admit in TLOK S2 that despite their problems, they were a happy family.

Meanwhile, Ozai turns Azula into a socially incompetent, social pariah who is only good for conquest, driving her insane in the process, and the only reason why Zuko doesn't suffer a similar fate is due to spending three years away from him and his mother and uncle being able to influence him down a better path due to Ozai's neglect.

Not to mention, Aang was in a loving marriage with Katara in which they supported each and they treated each other as equals while Ozai, along with his father, kidnapped and married Ursa at firepoint and was implied to be emotionally, verbally, and physically abusive towards her on top of being a martial rapist.

Did that person even watch either show or read any of the extended universe?

[hello-nichya-here]

I don’t understand what way Ozai's story a "tragedy" if his fate was a result of his consistently conscious, deliberate wrong choices and hubris. His children on the other hand were manipulated into a mindset very hard to get out of, so much so they think they know what they want but aren't happy when they get it. They didn't get a say in anything that pit them their positions.

1 - A self-made tragedy is still a tragedy. He made terrible choices that led him to misery, and he COULD have a better life, if only regreted the vile things he did and chose to do better. But he won't, and thus is trapped in this miserable existence. That's tragic.

2 - "This character's fate is a tragedy" is not the same as "This character is sympathetic/someone we were rooting for/someone we felt bad for." It literally just means "This is kinda sad if you think about it."

3 - Before being an abusive adult, he was an abused child. Before being the one further brainwashing people into imperialism, he was the one being indoctrinated into it. He is the fallen hero of his story, and the villain in pretty much everyone else's. He USED TO BE an innocent person who didn't know any better. He used to be Zuko, now he's Azulon.

I hate Ozai. Always have, probably always will. But the whole point of Avatar is "EVERYONE has the potential for great good and great evil." Ozai made his choice. He made the wrong choice, and that destroyed his life and family and he has no one to blame but himself - and that is the DEPRESSING, or, ya know, TRAGIC, reality of it.

[phoenix-king-ozai]

The avatar fandom when Iroh has committed war crimes and likely was just like Ozai but less outwardly unpleasant until Lu Ten got bodied: I don't see it.

Bro if there was an Iroh prequel it'd be ugly as hell.

Crown Fire Prince Iroh systemically starved Ba Sing Se for nearly two years straight non-stop while slaughtering Earth Kingdom soldiers trying to defend and protect their wives, children, family and fellow citizens from the ruthless, brutal and cruel invading Fire Nation army to protect and defend Ba Sing Se.

I’m pretty sure Iroh during his prime years such as during his thirties and before Lu Ten was born was pretty ruthless and savagely competent as Grand General in the Fire Nation’s Army. My headcanon is that Iroh and Ozai have a fifteen year age gap difference. Meaning that in canon at the end of ATLA, Ozai is forty-five then Iroh has to be sixty. When Iroh was thirty during his prime years, Ozai was a fifteen-year-old teenager.

I think both Iroh and Ozai were viciously ruthless commanders and fighters on the battlefield during Fire Lord Azulon’s reign. However, Ozai probably was far more crueler, aggressive, and merciless than his older brother and more like their father Fire Lord Azulon instead. This ruthlessness, brutality, and aggression is what fire nation imperialism and aggressive firebending is based on and what Ozai wants Zuko to inherit and embody as his son and Crown Prince.

This is because in my headcanon Fire Lady Ilah has a much more kinder, gentler, compassionate, and sympathetic personality than her husband Fire Lord Azulon toward other nations suffering in the Hundred Year War due to her having more of a spiritual connection and having her life saved and spared by a Earth Kingdom Princess. This challenged her Fire Supremacist views of people from the Earth Kingdom and other nations made her contextualize their pain and suffering from nearly a century of nonstop war and violence.

Despite both Ilah and Iroh still being staunch imperialists. Ilah made sure to teach Iroh the values of compassion, mercy, and kindness. These values weren't taught and passed down to Azulon and Ozai in comparison. Nor have Azulon or Ozai ever had their Fire Supremacist views challenge and are heavily impacted by decades of propaganda and hatred created by Fire Lord Sozin.

Another headcanon theory of mine is that Fire Lady Ilah died in childbirth while giving birth to Fire Prince Ozai. Iroh was a fifteen-year-old teenager at the time as well. Fire Lord Azulon probably wanted a second child in case of Crown Fire Prince Iroh's possible death on the battlefield along with the return of Sozin’s comet nearly fifty years in the future. However, Ilah probably was in her forties and childbirth was more risky. My dark headcanon is that Baby Ozai burned his mother Ilah from the inside out and the Fire Sages had to perform a lethal C-section on the dying Fire Lady. Fire Lord Azulon loathes his second-born son for being the cause of his beloved wife’s death but this is a coping mechanism due to the fact that Azulon pushed and forced Ilah to have another child.

This is the main reason Ozai is more ruthless, brutal, and vicious than his older brother Iroh. Iroh had and took after Ilah's influence and parenting style whereas Ozai had and took after Azulon’s influence and parenting style. Iroh probably is brainwashed and naivete to believe that the Fire Nation truly cares about the prosperity of the other elemental nations whereas as Ozai is extremely realistic and pessimistic regarding the so-called “benevolent” plans for the other nations.

A good comparison between Iroh and Ozai would be Bjorn and Ivar from the Vikings series. Along with the immorality standards of the German Wehrmacht soldiers and SS-loyal nazi soldiers that are completely brainwashed by the ideology of nazism and imperialism.

[impossiblycolorfulpanda]

Even though I'm very "pro azula redemption" and "pro azulaang." I fully don't blame others who are against both ideas.

Between Ozai and Azula, it's Azula who's the more popular antagonist and the final agni kai was the most popular climax battle.

Ozai is never truly given a chance to prove why he's the better villain and why he's supposed to be Aang's arch-nemesis. The narrative genuinely tries to make Ozai the better villain and his battle with Aang the most climactic out of all other battles but it all falls short.

The most common qualities for an arch-nemesis are that they are the hero's strongest enemy, pose the greatest threat to the hero, are the complete antithesis to the hero, have strong connections with the hero's past, or are the most recurring villain the hero faces. Ozai demonstrates none of these qualities to Aang or anyone on Team Avatar except Zuko.

I don't wish for Azula's villainous feats and the final agni kai to all be erased. I just want them to be surpassed by Ozai's feats and his battle with Team Avatar. Make it to where Team Avatar would need Azula's, Mai's, and Ty Lee's help in dealing with Ozai. Make it to where Aang would need to not only master every bending art he has to their fullest extent but do the same with all possible specialized sub-bending techniques along with non-bender skills, his chakras, and his avatar state.

These are the reasons why I was determined to reimagine Ozai as the instigator of the great war and/or a dark avatar whose secret/true identity is actually Vaatu himself.

[justanotherthrowaway1950]

But isn't that the whole point of his character, or at least a major point? Ozai is the physical embodiment of the Fire Nation's ills and what a hundred years of war, colonization, and genocide has done its collective psyche: a nation that supposedly prides itself on being honorable and spreading its "glory", but in reality is a nation of monstrous, dishonorable, ignorant cowards who do nothing but spread pain and destruction and who have no respect for anything or anyone, including themselves.

Ozai being a coward who hides behind his teenage daughter and is only seen fighting a 12 and 13 year old, losing to the former at his most powerful no less, is perfectly in-line with his character. If anything, Ozai being portrayed as a courageous warrior who is seen on screen fighting and defeating component adult fighters would have defeated the point of his character.

Ozai is genuinely such a coward. Like... on the Day of Black Sun he was completely okay with hiding behind his guards in a secret chamber while Azula, his daughter, who also had no bending faced Aang, Sokka and Toph. Her job was to literally distract them and protect him? I'll remind you the only fights we've ever seen with Ozai are between him and Zuko (his SON who was 13 and wouldn't fight back) and the twelve year old Avatar who he was prepared to murder.

[balanceoflightanddark]

Can I ask why you think the way Azula treated Zuko was not abusive?

To understand why Azula was not abusive to Zuko, we need to understand what IS abusive. I'm not exactly an expert in the field of abuse as there are many kinds of abuse. However, I do feel that the National Domestic Violence Hotline on their website www.thehotline.org does give us at least a basis to start off with in terms of this kind of abuse that Azula is accused of.

Essentially, if Azula were trying to exert any form of power or control over Zuko, we could consider that to be abusive. She would come from a position of power and use that to browbeat Zuko into submission. Whereas the latter wouldn't be able to do anything about it due to that power dynamic I mentioned. Either that or Zuko wouldn't know it was abuse since it was so engrained in their dynamic.

Thing is...Zuko never shows signs of being abused by Azula.

Whenever Azula mocks him or taunts him, he fires back. He's not afraid to speak his mind. We saw that all the time in "Zuko Alone". Indeed, he doesn't show any signs of being afraid of her or any sign of her exerting any sort of power over him. The closest we came to that was during the bedroom scene where she dangles the possibility of the Avatar over his head, but even that's debatable since he was the crown prince AND barged in with a bad mood already.

So clearly, Zuko didn't feel threatened by Azula at all. And if their dynamic had him fire back at her just as much as she did towards him, how can that be considered abuse?

But what I think is most telling is that we do have an example of abuse in the cartoon. And it does involve Zuko and everything that I just mentioned.

It's just, it wasn't Azula.

It was Ozai.

Putting aside the scar on his face, Zuko's relationship with Ozai DOES reek of abuse. I made a whole post about it, but the point is, Zuko never feels comfortable about speaking out against Ozai or fighting against him. The only time he does is when he has a bit of an advantage, but that was only to escape and not kill.

Zuko will speak out against Azula. But Ozai? No way. He'll take Ozai's comments, and internalize them to make himself feel weak as he does throughout the series. Hell, his rivalry with Azula is Ozai setting them against each other just like any abusive parent would do.

In short, Zuko's dynamic with Azula is the complete opposite of Ozai. And since we know that Ozai is an abusive father, I cannot for the life of me see Azula being at the same level. At worst, she was a symptom of the problem. Not the problem itself. And if you want to address the topic of abuse, you need to get at the source.

[dragomer]

Can you elaborate on how Ozai neglected his spirituality? What does it even mean in atla setting, to be spiritual? I mean Ozai was a shitty person but he was ambitious and resilient about his purpose, so I don't really get why his spirit was overpowered by Aang's.

It means what it means literally, Ozai only cared about material things, his strength, his power, his territory, his wealth, with no care for spirituality like caring for the order and balance of the world, learning about other people and empathizing with them, understanding that he's just one part of a bigger whole and that other people matter too.

As well as straight up having no respect, care or understanding of actual factual spirits or nature.

His purpose was purely ego driven / materialistic, it's not spiritual at all and that's why he lost to Aang in the end, if his spirit had been just a bit stronger, Aang would have been the one who lost his bending.

Thanks for the ask ^^

[longing-for-rain]

Sometimes I think about exactly how powerful Zuko’s story as an abuse victim is and I just have to stop and tear up for a minute.

Just let it sink in that at 13 years old, Zuko’s father mutilated him in front of an audience and told him he was worthless and unwelcome until he completed an impossible mission. Nobody stepped in to help him. Most onlookers thought he deserved it, and even Iroh was too afraid of Ozai to challenge him in Zuko’s defense.

Zuko went on for years believing Ozai was right, and didn’t recognize what happened to him as abuse. He thought his banishment and suffering were his own fault because something was wrong with him, and that it was his duty to change to become worthy again.

Then this scene? Absolutely incredible.

Zuko’s whole journey leads up to this confrontation, where he not only recognizes that he holds no responsibility for the abuse inflicted on him; he confronts his abuser and tells him he was wrong to treat him that way, that he doesn’t owe his abuser anything.

And not only that, Zuko also tells Ozai that he sees how he’s hurting the rest of the world the same way he hurt him, and vows to stop him. That’s literally so powerful, especially watching this as someone who once felt as broken and alone as Zuko once did. His story is everything to me.

[justanotherthrowaway1950]

The only thing I'll add is that Ozai already had one "failure" of a child, and so, he wasn't going to accept another "failure", with Azula, along with the rest of the Royal Family, knowing this to be the case.

This whole Azula being born lucky and Zuko being lucky to be born... Azula would have to be "lucky". If she was "normal" like Zuko, she would be dead

At 13, Zuko was a child you couldn't justify duelling, a boy who needed protection and was deserving of compassion.

At 14, Azula is a soldier. A fire bending weaoon who is none of the things that Zuko was, because she wears makeup, is sharp tongued, and fights in a ruthless way that's conducive to her environment

All the things she does in the show are insane. Her physical feats and the expectations set on her by Ozai. You're not just born that good. You train, and you train hard, and if you're talented, that training won't kill you, and you won't buckle under the pressure

She was literally a kid with no choice but to be better at war than all the adults around her. Ozai expected her to be his right-hand man or nothing at all

[zuko-always-lies]

What Ozai was proud of Zuko for

Ozai: I am proud of you, Prince Zuko. I am proud because you and your sister conquered Ba Sing Se. I am proud because when your loyalty was tested by your treacherous uncle, you did the right thing and captured the traitor. And I am proudest of all of your most legendary accomplishment: you slayed the Avatar.

Zuko: [Shocked.] What did you hear? Ozai: Azula told me everything. She said she was amazed and impressed at your power and ferocity at the moment of truth.

Interesting, if not unexpected list:

Showing "military prowess" and proper imperialism by conquering Ba Sing Se(even though Azula did 95% of the actual work, although we're not sure how she presented things to Ozai). There's a reason that Zuko was welcome at future war meetings after this.

Proving "true loyalty" by rejecting his treacherous uncle's pleas (true, although Azula probably emphasized this as much as possible) and "capturing Iroh" (false, Azula and her Dai Li agents did 99% of the actual work there, but Azula isn't going to tell Ozai that).

Killing the Avatar with "power and ferocity"(false, Azula is the one who did that). I think it's easy to see why Ozai is impressed by this.

[justanotherthrowaway1950]

Why Azula, Ozai, Azulon, and Sozin Shouldn't Be Written as Having ASPD

Keynote: Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD) is the proper medical term as far as I know for what is commonly referred to as sociopathy and psychopathy. So I use ASPD throughout this meta in lieu of those terms.

It is a commonly held belief in ATLA fandom that some combination of Sozin, Azulon, Ozai, and/or Azula have ASPD since there is no good explanation for the way that they treat their “loved ones”, their subjects, and the world other than them being utterly incapable of feeling empathy for others.

And while I do admit that reading Sozin, Azulon, Ozai, and/or Azula as suffering from ASPD is a perfectly acceptable and well-supported by canon, I personally think they shouldn’t be written as suffering from ASPD because there are three, story-based reasons for not doing so.

Or more specifically, if Sozin, Azulon, Ozai and Azula aren’t written as suffering from ASPD, (1) it strengthens their ability to serve as character foils, (2) allows there to be a better reason for why the Fire Nation waged the Hundred Year War, as well allow for more interesting stories to be told of Zuko and his descendants reforming the Fire Nation, and (3) the franchise’s stance on the nature versus nurture debate would be kept in tact.

This is because, in regards to point (1), Sozin, Azulon, Ozai, and Azula not only serve as character foils to members of their family, but also other people in the other nations as well.

And the four Fire Nation royals serving as character foils not only enhances Avatar’s characterization, but also plays an important role in the narrative as well.

For example, one of the key parallels in ATLA is that between Zuko and Sozin, or more generally, their relationships with their respective Avatar over time.

(Yes, I do think Roku-Sozin are meant to be paralleled with Aang-Zuko since I don't think it was a mistake that Zuko and Aang learned about Roku and Sozin's past in the same episode.) 

(Or that one of the last scenes in the show has Fire Lord Zuko at his coronation have Aang by his side not just as the Avatar, but also as his friend as well as evidenced by their hug just before Zuko got crowned.)

(Or that both Sozin and Zuko were given multiple, unearned chances by their respective Avatars to do better.)

This is because, despite growing up best friends with the Avatar, knowing true firebending, and growing up in a mostly peaceful world, Sozin’s lust for power and desire to spread the Fire Nation’s “greatness” caused him to forsake balance, which resulted in him dying a bitter, regretful old man who killed his best friend so he could start a genocidal war of conquest.

Meanwhile, despite only knowing rage-based firebending, growing up in a world at war, and being raised to believe that the Avatar was his nation’s sworn enemy, Zuko eventually rejected Sozin’s path and chose to follow Aang and help him restore balance.

And as a result of his strength of character, Zuko will more likely than not die a happy, old man, one who not only helped the world heal, but also managed to become best friends with Aang, despite everything that transpired between them during the first couple of months they knew each other.

Another key parallel is that between not only Zuko and Azula, but also Azula and Katara as well.

For in Zuko’s case, Azula serves as a reminder of what could have happened to Zuko if he never managed to (inadvertently) get out of Ozai’s thumb and eventually reject him for good.

Or more specifically, a conqueror with all the physical and political power in the world, but eventually goes mad since they have no one to share it with due to alienating everyone in their quest for power and Ozai’s approval.

Meanwhile, Azula serves as a reminder of what Katara could have become if she used her family trauma as justification to become an unrepentant monster.

That and if Katara was raised without love and taught that empathy was weakness, not a strength.

For they are both powerful benders, daughters of their nation’s respective heads of state, have hot-headed older bros who are swordsmen, trained under the same master, and whose (final) girlfriends are warriors.

Moreover, they have mother issues related to their missing mothers and serve as the emotional center of their groups, though Katara’s stays together while Azula’s fails apart due to Katara being able to love her companions while Azula is only capable of using fear to keep her companions in line.

But beyond the obvious parallels, there are also interesting parallels between Ozai and Hakoda, Iroh and Azula, and Ozai and Zuko.

This is because in the case of Ozai and Hakoda, they have dead or presumed to be dead wives, daughters who are bending prodigies, sons who wanted nothing more than to make them proud, and are elite warriors.

However, due to a combination of the cycle of abuse and his insatiable lust for power, Ozai constantly pushed his children and pitted them against each other, resulting in him losing the War and his freedom as one of his children went insane while the other betrayed him after realizing he had nothing of value to offer to them or the world.

Meanwhile, Hakoda was a supportive and loving father who taught his kids the value of family and friendship, and as result, he managed to win the War because his kids were able to work together and support each other and their friends.

In regards to Iroh and Azula, even though on the surface they don’t seem to share that much in common, especially since their personalities are different, they not only are very similar people, but also serve as direct foils to each other.

For they were both brilliant military strategists and tacticians with hot headed brothers, brothers who grew up in their shadows due to them not being able to keep up with their psychotic fathers’ expectations while they easily met them, and thus “thrived.”

They were the favored children of genocidal warlords, in addition to being heavily sheltered and coddled bending prodigies who came up with several, new firebending techniques.

They have a tendency to manipulate and lie to those around them, were complicit in the Fire Nation’s war crimes, and killed people in combat.

(Yes, Iroh is complicit in the Fire Nation’s war crimes. This is because, beyond the fact that the TTRPG confirms he was the Rough Rhinos’ commander when they burned Jet’s village, he was a leading general and crown prince for several decades.)

(Moreover, it is highly unlikely he never sat in his father’s war council meetings, or was unaware of stuff like the Southern Raids, or what happened to the captured Southern Waterbenders.)

(Especially since the TTRPG implies he learned lightning redirection from observing waterbenders before Lu Ten’s death, and so, unless he met Foggy Swamp Tribe Waterbenders, he either participated in the Southern Raids or observed the captured Southern Waterbenders since the North hadn’t seen Fire Nation soldiers in eighty-five years.)

(Also, in my opinion, post-redemption Iroh is a liar and manipulator, even if it is for a good cause.)

(For he lied to Zuko and his crew about his true allegiances, hid the fact that he was a member of the White Lotus, and tried manipulating Zuko to turn into an outright traitor in the Catacombs, with the last point being really egregious in my opinion.)

(This is because he hadn’t done anything to challenge Zuko’s worldview, or help him see past it, instead trying to rely on his personal connection with Zuko.)

And they not only conquered, or tried conquering, Ba Sing Se, but also lost everything in their quests to fulfill their forefathers’ vile dreams.

However, partially due to his strength of character, and partially due to having more freedom and sanity, Iroh was able to use him hitting rock bottom to reflect and grow as a person before dedicating the rest of his life and afterlife to helping restore and maintain balance.

Meanwhile, as of current canon, Azula is incapable or unwilling to engage in self-reflection, remaining essentially the same person she was before her downfall, though much more dangerous as she has not only grown in power, but is now trying to unleash dark spirits so she can take down her brother’s regime so she can retake the throne and restart the Hundred Year War.

Finally, in regards to Ozai and Zuko, it is pretty obvious from the way adult Zuko looks like Ozai, Zuko’s initial aggressive bending style, the fact that they are both hot-heads who lived in the shadow of their prodigal siblings and resented them for it, at least until he defected in Zuko’s case, and the fact they were their father’s unfavored child that they are character foils.

Or in other words, Ozai is what Zuko could have become if he never got out of his father’s thumb, didn’t have positive influences like Ursa and (post-redemption) Iroh, and let his hate and desire for his father’s love warp him into a monster, one who continued the cycle of abuse and War in order to fill the gaping hole in his heart caused by a lack of parental love.

I could go on, but the point is that Sozin, Azulon, Ozai, and Azula play important roles as character foils to several of the main characters, not only strengthening their characterization, but also the narrative as a whole.

However, if they are written as having ASPD, their ability to serve as character foils is severely weakened, not only weakening the characterization of several characters, but also ATLA’s narrative as a whole as well.

For if Sozin has ASPD, then the parallel between the Sozin-Roku and Zuko-Aang relationship is lost, or at least severely weakened, since Sozin becoming a genocidal tyrant is due to his genetics, and not because he made the wrong choices in life.

If Azulon has ASPD, then a large amount of the differences between his children can be chalked up to Ozai inheriting his ASPD while Iroh did not, instead of the differences in how they were raised, their different life experiences, and strength of character, or lack thereof, explaining why ended becoming the people they did, as well as their eventual fates.

If Ozai has ASPD, then his failures as a man, father, brother, and ruler aren’t due to his upbringing and his weakness of character, but instead due to his genetics.

If Azula has ASPD, then her ability to serve as a dark reflection of what could have been for Zuko and Katara is lost since Azula becoming and staying evil is a result of her genetics, and not her choices.

And more generally, if they have ASPD, then the four of them starting and continuing to wage the Hundred Year War can be chalked up to their genetics and them being in positions of unchecked power, which leads into both my second and third points.

This is because, in regards to point (2), if Azula, Ozai, Azulon, and Sozin have ASPD, then the reason why the Fire Nation started the Hundred Year War essentially becomes bad people who were on the throne and/or had power.

Whereas if Azula, Ozai, Azulon, and Sozin don’t have ASPD, then the reason why the Hundred Year occurred can be seen as the end result of the Royal Family over the centuries engaging in greater violence, as well as enacting more and more centralization and authoritarian measures, to prevent the spilling of blood, resulting in them losing the plot.

That and the Fire Nation being fundamentally flawed since it was created and maintained through acts of violence.

For the first Fire Lord united the war-torn Fire Islands, thus ushering a prolonged period of peace, by violently bringing the warring clans to heel.

Centuries, if not thousands of years, later, when it became apparent that political conspiracies and economic crises that came about due to nobles clashing with the Fire Lord, as well as the Royal Family fighting amongst itself, periodically weakened the Fire Lord’s authority to the point that bloody civil wars often occurred, Fire Lord Yosor, working with Avatar Szeto, helped stabilize the Fire Nation by implementing political and economic reforms that, among other things, centralized power in the national government’s bureaucracy, which was obviously controlled by the Fire Lord.

However, Yosor and Szeto’s reforms were still not enough to ensure peace, for the clans’ conflict with the crown, which at this point was held by Fire Lord Zoryu, almost led to a civil war in what came to be known as the Camellia-Peony War. Thus, Zoryu began a multi-generational project in which the clans’ power would permanently be dissolved, with the only figure able to wield power being the Fire Lord.

And while it took centuries, Sozin completed the project, which not only ensured, as far as Sozin and the Royal Family were concerned, the Fire Nation’s peace and prosperity, but also enabled Sozin to pursue policies to uplift all of his subjects.

And after seeing the success of the policies he implemented, Sozin then had the bright idea of spreading the Fire Nation’s propensity by any means possible.

For while it was utterly evil and led to an incalculable amount of lost and/or ruined lives, it would make complete sense from his point of view considering one could easily make the argument that life in the Fire Nation got better as the Fire Lord concentrated more and more power in the throne, as well engaged in increasing amounts of violence to keep the peace.

And obviously his descendants, especially Ozai and Azula, would agree with Sozin’s worldview considering he embarked on a historical revision project so widespread and successful that not only was there one place in the Fire Nation by the end of the War that had unbiased historical records, the Dragonbone Catacombs, but also had managed to brainwash the Fire Nation to the point that they thought that Airbending was demonic and that the pacifist Air Nomads were in fact the Air Nation and had a standing army.

So, if the above explanation of why the Fire Nation waged the Hundred Year War is canon, instead of the “bad people on the throne” explanation, then Zuko and his descendants’ task of reforming the Fire Nation likewise becomes that much more complicated, and thus allows for richer storytelling.

For instead having to only make to sure that no one with ASPD inherits the throne or is in a position to wield power, Zuko and his descendants would have to ask hard questions about the nature of the Fire Nation government and why the Fire Nation ended up waging the Hundred Year War, questions like, “Are human rights compatible with absolute monarchies?”, “What do we have to do in order to not only de-Sozinize our people, but also make sure that Sozism and related strains of thought never become popular again?” before then taking action to implement solutions to those questions.

And the process of them trying to come with and implement reforms in order to make sure the Fire Nation never starts another war like the Hundred Year War, as well deal with issues in regards to said reforms as they pop up, would lead to compelling stories.

Especially since there are few things that can provide credible physical challenges to the post-war Gaang or post-Season 4 Krew, and so, in order to tell compelling stories with real stakes, they need non-physical problems or threats they can’t punch their way through.

For example, imagine seeing Zuko trying to implement democratic reforms after realizing that part of the issue was that one man had the power to plunge the world into chaos, struggling to get the nobility and upper classes to accept the lost their privileges and power, as well establish democratic norms in a nation with no known history of democracy?

Or seeing Izumi fight back against a populist resurgence of Sozism as most of the people who lived through the end of the Hundred Year War are now dead or old, struggling to put down it without becoming a tyrant?

Finally, in regards to point (3), regardless of how people feel about it, the franchise has been pretty consistent on which side of the nurture vs nature debate it stands with, constantly implying, if not outright stating, that its heroes and villains alike are products of nurture, not nature.

Moreover, the franchise has provided explanations, but never justifications, for why various villainous characters like Yun, Amon and Kuriva ended up doing the evil things they ended up doing, ranging from being betrayed by their father figure after being lied to their whole lives, being warped by abusive parenting, to unresolved abandonment issues.

However, the franchise’s consistent stance that evil is a product of nurture, not nature, would be heavily contracted if Azula, Ozai, and Azulon, and/or Sozin were written to have ASPD, at least to the degree that fandom thinks they have it.

For while ASPD is not a guarantee that someone would become a threat to society, as seen by the fact that a famous ASPD researcher has ASPD himself, yet managed to have a productive, normal life with friends and family, most people think that people with ASPD have the malignant version of it, as seen in various other artistic works like We Need to Talk About Kevin.

So, in combination with the fact that Azula, Ozai, and Azulon, and Sozin in all likelihood will never have their upbringings detailed on-screen or on-panel, if they are written to have ASPD, the audience will more likely than not assume that they were born with malignant ASPD, and thus born evil.

“Ok, you make some good points, but what if I don’t I don’t want Azula, Ozai, Azulon, and/or Sozin to be anything more than uncomplicated villains?” 

“For a lot of shows nowadays have complicated villains with motives, and so giving the four Fire Nation Royals motives behind their evildoing would take away a lot from their uniqueness, and more generally, Avatar’s uniqueness as a franchise.”

“Like, what happened to villains who wanted to do evil just because?”

I agree with the sentiment that the trend of making every villain complicated might have gone too far, and that sometimes it is better to have uncomplicated villains who do evil just because.

But Avatar is a not a franchise with uncomplicated characters for the most part, as seen with not only the existence of characters with Hama and Jet, but also the inordinate amount of time the narrative spends humanizing the Fire Nation, even though it would have been very easy to paint them as ontologically evil.

So, by giving Azula, Ozai, Azulon, and Sozin motives for their evildoing beyond having ASPD, it wouldn’t take away from their uniqueness, or the Avatar franchise’s uniqueness in general, but in fact enhance it.

“Ok, writing Azula, Ozai, Azulon, and Sozin as not having ASPD wouldn’t ruin their characters, but what if I want them to have ASPD because it would enhance Avatar’s story.”

“Or more specifically, by writing those four as having ASPD, it would allow audiences to learn how to recognize those suffering from ASPD, or at least the malignant version of it, and learn how to deal with their behavior. And more generally, that not everyone’s issues can be solved with love and/or therapy, and that some people have to be taken down permanently for the good of society, or at least removed from society.”

In regards to the idea that writing Azula, Ozai, Azulon, and Sozin as having ASPD because it could teach audiences how to deal with people having ASPD, at least the malignant version, I would agree that be a good idea, if Avatar had a good track record of portraying mental health issues.

This is because Azula after Sozin’s Comet, or at least during her appearances in the pre-Faith Erin Hicks comics, is supposed to be suffering from split personality disorder.

However, as seen by the contentious discourse on what, if any, mental disorders Azula is suffering from, it is clear that they did not do a good job of showing that Azula was suffering from a split personality disorder.

In fact, there is a Word of Statement, one that is supported by various allusions in the post-Sozin’s Comet comics, that Azula and her fellow Fire Warriors were abused in their asylums, yet there is little to no time spent focusing on how their experiences informed their behavior.

So I am skeptical that they would be able to properly show all the symptoms and co-morbidities associated with ASPD, and not just rely on and perpetuate stereotypes like they did with Azula and the Fire Warriors.

Also, just because Azula, Ozai, Azulon, and Sozin don’t have ASPD doesn’t mean their issues could be solved with love and/or therapy, or that social sanitation couldn’t be practiced in regards to them.

For not every troubled individual has ASPD, nor does everyone who committed heinous crimes worthy of being jailed for life have ASPD, so why can’t Azula, Ozai, Azulon, and Azulon be treated like those people?

“Ok, but what if I want Azula, Ozai, Azulon, and Sozin to have ASPD because I fear that giving them any nuance would be akin to excusing their crimes and abusive behavior and pressure Bryke into redeeming them, or at least suggesting they could have been redeemed in Azulon and Sozin’s cases?”

Just because there is an explanation for why the four Fire Nation Royals did horrible things wouldn't justify them, nor would it excuse anything.

For Sozin would still be the man who betrayed his best friend, turned his only son into a genocidal warlord, brainwashed his subjects into waging a genocidal war of conquest and imperialism, and responsible for the Airbender Genocide.

Azulon would still be the man who continued his father’s genocidal war of conquest and imperialism, turned both of his kids into genocidal warlords, responsible for the Southern Waterbender Genocide, had Ursa kidnapped and raped so his bloodline’s continued rule would be assured, and condoned Ozai’s abuse of both his children.

Ozai would still be the man who continued his forefathers’ genocidal war of conquest and imperialism, abused his wife and kids, murdered his father and usurped his older brother after coercing his wife to do the former for him, and attempted to genocide the Earth Kingdom.

And Azula would still be girl who conquered the Earth Kingdom, abused her brother and “friends,” murdered Aang, aided and abetted her father’s efforts to genocide the Earth Kingdom, attempted to kill her mother, brother, “friend,” and uncle, kidnapped a bunch of children, including her half-sister, and is currently engaged in domestic terrorism.

Moreover, just because there is an explanation for their evil beyond ASPD doesn’t mean that any of Azula, Ozai, Azulon, or Sozin have to be redeemed or have it be suggested that they could have been redeemed.

For just like The Avatar and the Fire Lord made clear (in my opinion) that just because Sozin felt guilty for betraying Roku and starting the Hundred Year War didn’t make him redeemable, there is nothing preventing Azulon remaining the unrepentant monster who was slain by the monster he created, Ozai spending the rest of his life seething in his cell, or Azula remaining a domestic terrorist incapable or unwilling to engage in self-reflection before the Gaang finally stops her for good beyond Bryke’s desires.

So to conclude, I don’t think there is anything wrong with seeing Azula, Ozai, Azulon, and/or Sozin having ASPD, and in fact, I think there are strong arguments to support such a view.

But what I am saying is that writing them as having ASPD is a bad storytelling choice since it ruins or weakens their ability to serve as narrative foils, eliminates potentially more complicated reasons for why the Fire Nation waged the Hundred Year War, as well the complex, engaging stories the franchise can tell of Zuko and his descendants’ ongoing struggles to reform the Fire Nation, and would be inconsistent with the franchise’s stance on the nurture versus nature debate.

And at the end of day, isn’t the Avatar franchise at its best when it is telling stories with engaging narratives and complex characters, even if the conflict is black and white?

[hello-nichya-here]

How was Ozai suffering from the imperialist regime of FN of all people? I mean in the past, yeah, he's a victim of the environment too. But when he was the Fire Lord and could stop the very war? The only "suffering" I can think of is managing the country's declining economic state because the war was driving out all the resources iirc. And also Azulon ordered him to kill his own son but imo it was more of Azulon being an abusive asshole than the imperialist system's doing.

The Fire Nation's imperialism directly affected how the dynamics in the royal family would work.

We see Sozin kill Roku, his best friend who might as well have been family, because he was in the way of his goals. Lu Ten died because Iroh, his dad, just HAD to fucking conquer Ba Sing Se. The whole deal of the "weak" needing to be harshily punished and forced to submit was what led to Azulon becoming abusive, and to Ozai then repeating that pattern with his own kids - hence the scene of Azulon demanding Ozai to kill Zuko mirroring the Agni Kai scene.

Also, it is totally possible to be a victim of your own poor decisions (see Sozin basically driving himself mad as he continues to chase the Avatar and Iroh losing his only child because of his ambition) and that very much fits Ozai's case.

In his blind ambition to become Fire Lord, Ozai betrays his own brother, kills his father, and banishes his wife. Because he couldn't stand anyone questioning his authority, even if indirectly and/or accidentally, he irreparably destroyed his relationship with his son by physically abusing him. Even the last person on Earth that still cared about him, Azula, CAN'T help him because the immense pressure he put on her to be the perfect princess/child soldier psychologically destroyed her. And let's not forget the only reason he lost his bending (and nearly died) was because he refused to accept Aang's final request for a ceasefire - we even see him explicitly say he doesn't believe the air-nomads deserved to exist, and then loses EVERYTHING when the last survivor of that group puts him in his place.

Ozai ended up all alone and powerless because his megalomania made him hurt people, and these people then turned against him - just like he did with his father.

Now, obviously he didn't suffer nearly as much as say, Aang, Katara, Sokka, or literally any of the victims of the genocides his family was responsible for, and the fact that he was a victim both of his environment and his own pride doesn't mean we have to forget everything he did - but neither do his bad actions erase his suffering, and half of said suffering being his own fault doesn't make it less real.

I don't hide the fact that I dislike Ozai. A LOT. Sometimes I legit get angry just looking at his face or remembering that he exists. But the whole point of Avatar is that when the world is out of balance, EVERYONE suffers. Spirits, animals, nature itself, and, of course, humans too - from the common man to the most powerful ruler, benevolent or otherwise. Saying that, even with how horrible he was, Ozai's fate IS 100% a tragedy, isn't the same as saying I want him to be redeemed or that what he did wasn't that serious or that he can't be blamed for anything since he was suffering too, it's just me pointing out that the show's narrative was coherent with it's themes when it came to Ozai's characterization, role in the story, and bitter end.