#azula is a victim of grooming

[justanotherthrowaway1950]

The only thing I'll add is that Ozai already had one "failure" of a child, and so, he wasn't going to accept another "failure", with Azula, along with the rest of the Royal Family, knowing this to be the case.

This whole Azula being born lucky and Zuko being lucky to be born... Azula would have to be "lucky". If she was "normal" like Zuko, she would be dead

At 13, Zuko was a child you couldn't justify duelling, a boy who needed protection and was deserving of compassion.

At 14, Azula is a soldier. A fire bending weaoon who is none of the things that Zuko was, because she wears makeup, is sharp tongued, and fights in a ruthless way that's conducive to her environment

All the things she does in the show are insane. Her physical feats and the expectations set on her by Ozai. You're not just born that good. You train, and you train hard, and if you're talented, that training won't kill you, and you won't buckle under the pressure

She was literally a kid with no choice but to be better at war than all the adults around her. Ozai expected her to be his right-hand man or nothing at all

[friedoats]

Shit in the atla fandom we need to talk about more

Azula is a victim of abuse just like zuko and deserved better than what happend in the comics (she's younger than zuko and was groomed by her father)

Aang is not one dementional, he's not all sunshine and rainbows, hes not all naïve

Iroh, we can always talk more about iroh, lets never stop talking about him

Holy fucking shit these young teenagers and kids were masters. Toph is 12 she is a master before we even meet her, aang is (1)12 he is a master before we meet him. Katara is 14 she is a master. Azula is 14 she is a master. Zuko is a master at 16. What the fuck did they feed these kids. What were you doing when you were 16? Huh?

Kyoshi was 230? When she died?????? Wtf? She was "taught" Immortality? And she probably just decided to die? Ig? Wtf

[antispopausandstuff]

SPOP and the problem with "you vs. me"

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you know the drill, this will be very long and may be scattered.

in attempts to show a more completed picture, i will be referencing arcane to compare sibling // familial dynamics and how the respective medias represented them.

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as adora is our main protagonist and catra was an main antagonist, a lot of the show's focus is on their characters and arcs ( or a lack thereof ). however, because of the blatant favoritism of catra over adora, rather than it being relatively equal or at least addressed in a more healthier way, this results in both the show and fandom diminishing adora's trauma and showcasing catra's.

the "you vs. me" conflict is a standard trope in fiction and is very much a struggle relationships have in real life, due to many issues including, but not excluded to, honesty, deceit, manipulation, accountability issues, anger issues, victimization, villainization, etc.

in fact, in terms of it being a trope, you could say that almost all of fiction relies on this, especially with protagonist vs. antagonist scenarios, such as batman & joker, superman & lex luthor, sonic & eggman, aang & ozai, korra & kuvira, or, in this case, adora & catra.

but when i'm referencing this trope, i'm specifically referring it to be in a familial context, such as zuko & azula, eda & lilith, vi & jinx, and so on and so forth.

now, what makes adora and catra so different from most other relationships that fall under this trope is because of one problem:

inconsistency.

despite the abuse being the center reason why adora and catra are separated and at odds with each other, the show is more focused on the effects of catra's trauma rather than the cause.

she is flippant with shadow weaver, doesn't hold her in very high regard as an authority or maternal figure, and just generally doesn't show any possible affection or positive emotion towards shadow weaver unless it has something to do with proving her wrong until s2, when s1 already establishes a hostile relationship between the two and catra explicitly stating she doesn't need shadow weaver.

now, this isn't to say that the cycle of abuse is a straight line. the writers can have catra show animosity towards shadow weaver and still make a relationship where she ends up being the victim of manipulation and hostility. but how they did it is the issue.

let's compare her story to jinx's.

parental situation - unlike catra, powder did not have a negative relationship with vander. but it wasn't a necessarily positive one, either. it was more awkward, silent, and not really given a chance to grow and develop into something more loving.

i don't doubt vander cared for powder, but it wasn't the exact way he cared for vi. the only thing they had in common was that they loved vi, but even that was in different ways ( parent // sibling ).

meanwhile, catra's relationship with shadow weaver has no actual room for plausible deniability on either end, but more importantly, catra's end.

there's no mother gothel-esc scene where shadow weaver love-bombs and gaslights her, no 'loving' manipulation, there's barely even a power imbalance, it's just animosity on both ends in the establishing season.

all of those scenes are towards adora instead, creating a rapunzel // mother gothel dynamic, like mentioned, as shadow weaver groomed her, used her for power, and raised her to be the perfect child soldier.

akin to mother gothel, after adora left the horde, shadow weaver become hyper-focused on getting her back and returning to the status quo, and both abusers do this by manipulation, sabotage, gaslighting, and instilling fear into their victims.

we don't get this with catra until s2.

the reason why this doesn't work is because:

catra is fully aware of the horde

catra is fully aware of shadow weaver

catra references // insults adora for being manipulated

catra establishing she doesn't need or want shadow weaver

catra broke shadow weaver's mask // source of power

all in s1.

which is why, when you watch s2, you might be wondering "why did she fall for that?" if you recall earlier scenes of basically admonishing adora for being a victim of abuse herself.

"she was desperate!" you say. but just because catra was desperate doesn't mean that she had to change her tune, especially since shadow weaver has literally no power over her.

it'd make a lot more sense for her to make a deal with shadow weaver rather than suddenly questioning shadow weaver on why she abused her, then begging her to help.

maybe, if the writers still wanted to continue with the cycle of abuse, the deal could've been a way for catra to be slowly manipulated and throw her off, anyway. because she was once on equal footing with her abusive mother, but now is beneath her for xyz reasons.

writing wise, it just makes no sense for us to be sympathetic to catra in s2 when it's been shown several times that any chance of a less than hostile relationship is impossible between them because they both hate each other.

origin of villainy - now, from catra's perspective, she blames adora and sometimes shadow weaver for her 'downfall', but simultaneously continues to have her own independence and choice to become evil. this is something the show states bluntly, despite still being wishy-washy in s5. catra chose to stay. catra chose to be evil.

the true origin of her choices lie in wanting to be powerful and ruling over the horde as revenge for who looked down on her ( shadow weaver, mainly ).

in fact, she pretty much says so in this line ( in 'Promise', s1 ):

"i don't WANT to leave. what don't you understand about that? i'm not afraid of shadow weaver anymore, and i'm a better force captain than you could've ever been."

catra desires power over love, but relied on adora to get that power through several years of abuse that continues on in their older teen, young adult lives.

what's the first thing that catra does when adora strays?

she electrocutes her, twice, and threatens to do it again.

she portrays it like it was an accident, but her face right after she shocks adora the first time is pure anger. when the moment passes, there's no apologetic look, she looks more 'awkward, if anything.

then when adora tries to get up, she shocks her again and justifies it by saying it was a "reflex". while i think she's full of shit, i do think this line holds at least some truth, as catra's had a clear pattern of putting adora in physical harm when she gets 'out of line' ever since they were kids.

like catra, powder does believe that her source of villainy ( if she even sees it as that, at first ) is also from vi leaving her. however, powder has more reason to believe she was abandoned than catra does.

why?

choice.

catra had a blatant, clear, on the table choice to join the rebellion and leave the horde, have a healthier, happier life, and stay away from shadow weaver. every time adora asks ( 3 times ), she doesn't push catra once she says no, but accepts it, however disappointed she may be, which is a stark contrast to how catra reacts to rejection.

neither vi or powder had the choice of staying together and running away. vi had a reaction that most people would have when powder accidentally killed basically their whole family, but she showed immense regret and walked away to take a breather.

but, as she wasn't able to communicate that, powder saw that as vi leaving and not coming back.

and then silco came in. vi was going to go back, going to try to save powder, but then marcus got involved, knocked her out, and took her to prison.

basically, fate fucked around with them. it was all just bad timing. neither vi or powder could play with the cards they were dealt with.

catra basically said "no, fuck you" and then turned around and victimized herself over and over, while still trying to maintain her own autonomy at the same time.

developing villainy // spiral - powder turning into jinx is tragic because it all started from an accident. because powder was a child that didn't mean to hurt or kill anyone and was taken advantage of in her time of need. because while suffering from psychosis and abandonment, silco preyed on her ( i'm not going to debate this with you, don't start a fight in the comments ).

catra turning into a horde general is visually displayed as devastating in s4, but it's very weak, writing wise, once you take a look at the full picture for all of its amateurish details.

catra participated in all of this willingly. it's very difficult to sympathize with someone who knows what they're doing and doesn't give a damn about who they're hurting.

catra's already had spirals. s1, s2, and s3. if you take off the rose-colored glasses, this gets exhausting and feels more pathetic than anything else.

catra's worst was in s3, not s4. and it was only about shadow weaver for maybe five minutes until it went back to being about her obsession for adora to be her meat shield. you can't really get any worse than destroying the entire universe, engaging in extreme sadism, and killing a monarch all out of spite for one person.

this was, supposedly, her wake-up call season, but catra doesn't change until s5 and the 'wake-up call' is garbage, telling us that she didn't mean any of the things she did or said, she didn't mean to hurt and abuse people, she didn't mean to send entrapta off to beast island, she didn't mean to threaten scorpia multiple times, yada, yada, yada, while also potentially victim-blaming her, and also saying "well, fuck you, it's all your fault lol". it's sloppy.

she had a mental breakdown because scorpia left her? oh no. how sad.

she starts hallucinating scorpia's laugh and thinks she's coming back? oh wow. tragic.

she starts pushing people away, for the millionth time, and victimizing herself again? aww. who woulda thunk it.

all of it falls under "what did you expect?" when you look through the many holes in SPOP's story.

and yet, despite it all, despite the fact that she committed universal genocide, death of a monarch, aggravated assault // attempted murder, attempted murder // suicide, etc., etc...

she's 'redeemed' by a hallucination in a ship that somehow tells her that she was the one who drove adora away, when she fucking knows that already.

jinx is eventually aware of herself and vi, as much as she can be, and continues the path to villainy because she's already gone too far. vi may forgive her, but she's killed a lot of people and is a criminal. not a petty thief, but a murderer.

the show helps us sympathize with jinx, but they don't erase what her actions, they don't erase her crimes, and still embrace writing her as a villain // antagonist that can't and won't go back.

catra has bare minimum sympathy from me. it's terrible that she was abused, but the show doesn't write it well or consistently enough for me to fully care and go "it's really sad that she's become a bad person", but rather "if you died, i'd be thankful".

that's harsh, maybe, but i don't see any other option, except for her being jailed for life, as a satisfying conclusion for her. because i don't care enough to wish a better life for her in canon.

the "you vs. me" problem in SPOP is that catra is constantly pushing this ideology in almost every single situation, even when it is not applicable, and it forces fans to view it the same, if not worse.

it's not specifically about shadow weaver, but more about what can give catra control in whichever situation that can allow her to victimize herself and // or dominate the other party.

and, as a result, to this day, catra is still seen as the biggest victim of the entire cast.

[themattress]

Who helped negatively shape Azula?

As of Azula in the Spirit Temple, it couldn't be more clear.

Azulon and Iroh are both guilty through inaction. In Azulon's case, he just straight-up didn't give a damn about Azula...her being named after him and being a prodigy at firebending failed to move him in the way Ozai had hoped. As for Iroh, he knew damn well what kind of a parent his brother was likely to be, but let his own military ambitions and desire to please his father take precedence over any concerns. Then, when he finally had the opportunity to help, he only did so for Zuko because he saw in him both his own dead son and a young version of Ozai that he could save from falling to darkness, while in Azula he only saw current Ozai which completely ignores the fact that she's a child. He didn't help her, and she got worse. Especially damning is that even after Zuko betrayed him and he was locked in prison, Iroh still reached out to help Zuko through teaching him he was Avatar Roku's descendant which somehow means the potential for good is inherit in him...yet did no such thing for Azula even when she is also Avatar Roku's descendant whom that theory should also hold true for.

But of course, the bigger guilty parties are Ozai and Ursa, her own parents, because their actions directly impacted her. Ozai is the guiltiest of all since he's the one who groomed her to be like him and believe in his psychotic, sadistic, manipulative worldview and bigoted, authoritarian, nationalistic philosophies. Ursa gets some leeway for being a victim of Ozai's abuse, but it can only carry her so far. As frightened of Ozai as she was, she was still an adult, and her children were far more vulnerable and at risk from Ozai. And yet Ursa let her fear of Ozai, whom she saw in Azula, and her guilt for inadvertently setting Zuko up for being targeted for abuse by Ozai, cloud her maternal judgement. She focused her energies on Zuko, neglecting Azula save for chiding her when she acted out for attention, and gave Ozai the perfect opportunity to convince Azula that unconditional love was a fantasy. And on top of that, she ended up completely abandoning both her children. Both of Azula's parents sucked.

Not guilty at all are Zuko, Mai, Ty Lee and Lu Ten. Zuko, Mai and Ty Lee are all victims of Azula plus of their own parents (the exact same as Azula's in Zuko's case), while Lu Ten was never in a position where he could have possibly done anything to help her; for all we know he barely ever got to see his younger cousins given how active he was in the military.

And on that note, Azula can't be fully absolved of guilt for how she turned out given that those peers whom she was closest to and whom she victimized all managed to overcome the way the adults in their lives failed them and negatively shaped them by their own free will. Azula could have done the same but instead doubled down on it, and that was her downfall.

[justanotherthrowaway1950]

Azula wasn't abused. And if she was abused, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, it wasn't a big deal. And if it was, then it was no one's fault. And if it was, then they didn't mean to abuse her or fail to protect her. And if they meant to abuse her or failed to protect her, then she deserved it.

(tw abuse) I find it interesting that the general assumption is that there was a lot of off-screen abuse happening with Zuko and Ursa, yet the assumption with Azula is that only the on-screen stuff happened.

Yep. Isn't it funny how that works?

[starlight-bread-blog]

Katara made it very clear that she never ever wants to see Yon Rah again and most of the Zutara fandom supports that decision of hers.

So I guess the possible downside of Katara choosing to marry Zuko means sharing Zuko's burden of reforming and rehabilitating depraved war criminals like Yon Rha and all those who are even worse than him.

Then there's this whole thing with Aaron Ehasz imagining Zuko being Azula's Iroh and she reforms in that way along with my and a few other's ideas of Aang showing her how open and master her own chakras. Speaking of Iroh, does anyone remember his ruthless and brutal 600-day siege anymore? There's no way he'd avoid dropping bodies that whole time.

Looks like Katara will ironically be taking Aang's advice about forgiveness after all but I don't think it'll be necessary for Katara to look for Yon Rah again and say so.

What do you think?

Tw: War crimes, genocide and nazism.

Disclaimer: I don't know what actually happened post canon. I tried to look on internet forums and it seems as the topic wasn't addressed in the comics. For this answer, I'm going under this assumption.

Sorry for not getting to this sooner, life got busy and I didn't want to give some half assed answer to such a delicate topic. There's a lot to comment on so I'll break this down step by step.

"Katara choosing to marry Zuko means sharing Zuko's burden of reforming and rehabilitating depraved war criminals"...

The fire nation commited atrocious war crimes, leaving them with with many war criminals. War crimes are more than punishable. If it were real life, neither Katara or Zuko would have to reform and rehabilitate any of them.

An example of this would be the Nuremberg trials after WW2. Even recently, in 2022, Irmgard Furchner (an 98 year old women) faced a trial for being a secretary of a concentration camp (to put it lightly, she was very much a murderer). No one is getting away with their actions.

I read the relevant section from a Red Cross's document titled "Analysis of the punishments applicable to international crimes (war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide) in domestic law and practice". (The section being "States’ obligations under IHL to prosecute and punish international crimes").

I found something interesting. (ID in alt text).

*Grave breaches are more serious, vile violations of humananitarian law. Everything above applies to "genocide and crimes against humanity".

If Katara were in a position of power in the Fire Nation, not only would she not have to reform anyone, she also might get to help with the trials for them.

"Then there's this whole thing with Aaron Ehasz imagining Zuko being Azula's Iroh"

I don't know about his plans for Aang's other ideas, so I can't comment on them. What I did find was a short thread of his. And after reading it, I maintain that – like most ideas – his vision can work with sensitive execution.

Azula was still very much a 14 year old victim of grooming when the series took place. Her brother can help her through her redemption under one condition – the desire to be better should come from her.

He shouldn't sit through any mistreatment whatsoever. He'll guide her through a path he already went through, but she has to walk with him. Azula needs to be safe for Zuko. Only then, redemption would be possible.

"does anyone remember [Iroh's] ruthless and brutal 600-day siege anymore?"

The difference between Iroh and Yon Rah is what they're up to now. In the present Yon Rah is just some guy living with his mother. Meanwhile Iroh took back Ba Sing Se from Fire Nation colonizers.

Yon Rah isn't out here fixing his mistakes, he just got off scot-free. On the other hand, Iroh is a changed man and took action to correct his past on the same scale.

At the end of the day redemtion isn't Aang's idea. It's one of the major themes of Atla. It wants to show that people can change and grow. So it does. Zuko changes, Mai changes, Ty Lee changes, and Iroh is their future.

He tried to conquer Ba Sing Se, and now he took it back from conquerors. He was the worst of them all, and now he's unrecognizable. He's warm, wise and sweet. There's a meaning to it.

That doesn't mean that war criminals in the current day, scums who made no affort, will get away with their crimes. That doesn't mean Katara would have to go through the mental torture of reforming her colonizers.

That is it! I hope I didn't come off as aggressive, I didn't mean to. Thank you for the ask, sorry for taking me forever to write this, and have a lovely day!

[prying-pandora666]

On the Disconnect Between ATLA and LOK: Or Why Reactionary Centrism Ruins Everything

I’ve made it no secret that I’m no fan of LOK’s writing for a number of reasons. But today I want to focus on only one issue: its politics.

I am baffled as to why LOK is seen as being the more “woke” story. Just because the protagonist is a buff brown woman with a female love interest (only implied until the comics, really)? This is such an incredibly shallow reading focusing only on aesthetics and ignores the actual content and philosophies LOK espouses.

But let’s not get into religion, iconography, the effects of colonialism and westernization etc, or we’ll be here forever.

Instead let’s just focus on the politics.

The Forge

Part of the disconnect between ATLA and LOK are the cultural conditions in the USA when both were made. The forge from whence they came was quite different.

Avatar: The Last Airbender

ATLA criticized imperialism.

If this show had been made during the height of Manifest Destiny, or during our super fun times illegally annexing territories (like Hawaii), it would’ve likely struggled to tell its story as well as it did. It would’ve been far more controversial and likely would’ve needed to take a more “centrist” approach, making it seem like imperialism isn’t “all that bad”.

It might have even come out and said that it isn’t imperialism itself that is the problem, but that Sozin to Ozai were big mean dictators that did it the wrong way!

But because ATLA came out in the 2000s—during a time in which the world had widely come around to thinking imperialism is kinda some super villain schtick—it was easy for the story to focus on the perspective of the victims of such campaigns and tell it from this point of view.

We don’t get long segments of feeling sorry for Ozai, now do we? The closest we get is Azula, who herself serves as a victim of this war that has consumed her childhood and deprived her of a safe, loving environment in which to grow and develop, instead having been groomed into a living weapon for her father and nation’s war machine.

So now let’s compare this to LOK.

The Legend of Korra

What does the first season of LOK cover? Collectivism, social activism, civil disobedience escalating to acts of violent defiance against the state.

What was going on in the USA in 2012 when LOK came out?

Occupy Wallstreet.

Socialism vs capitalism, the 99% versus the 1%, civil rights and equality; these are all issues we are still grappling with today. They’re highly politicized and divisive. There is no universal agreement about them.

And so LOK had no “safe” villain or “evil” ideology to combat. Instead it had a complicated and widely divisive topic to tackle that was contentious then and continues to be today.

As a result? Too much time is wasted equivocating.

Both Sides Are The Same! (But Not Really)

We get some soft worldbuilding early on in Book 1 of LOK showing how the infrastructure of this city is built to benefit benders and box out non-benders, but this is never given real focus. We SEE how the trains and police are dominated by earth/metal benders, we SEE how factory jobs employ lightning benders, while non-benders live in the slums which subject them to violence. But none of this is ever the focus or the point.

Almost as if the show is afraid to make a real critique from the perspective of the working class or an oppressed minority group.

Instead the story quickly falls off a cliffside as every tired old pejorative thrown at communists is recycled for Amon.

His sympathetic backstory is a complete fabrication meant to hide that he is actually part of the oppressor class.

They pretend to be the powerless oppressed group, and yet have the funding of the richest industrialist in the city?

The rich industrialist is a member of this supposedly oppressed class but really he’s just a secret villain looking to change the world for his own personal reasons and not to protect his fellow nonbenders (these same accusations are thrown at Jewish people re: Marxism).

There are no sincere attempts to communicate their grievances sympathetically or build a coalition or garner public support. Instead The Equalists only use violence, fear, and other oppressive silencing tactics.

The desire to make everyone equal by “stealing” people’s individuality. (The old “make everyone equal heights by cutting tall people’s legs down” chestnut).

And more!

This is kinda bonkers propaganda if you’re looking at it from a left-wing perspective, right?

And it seems weirdly incoherent if you’re trying to look at it from a right-wing perspective, especially with Tarrlok standing in as the villain “on the other side”.

But it makes PERFECT sense as an enlightened centrist horseshoe-theory piece that can’t commit to either side and has to warp and undermine its own story to fit a “both sides are wrong” message. Heck, it’s so heavy handed it even made Amon and Tarrlok brothers!

This is the problem that plagues all of LOK.

Look at the other villains too!

Amon: Civil Rights Activist or Bad Faith Opportunist?

Amon

Pretends to be: A civil rights activist for an oppressed minority group.

Is actually: A bad faith actor whipping up a small or non-issue into a much bigger one and convincing people to turn on each other for his own personal gain/revenge. Once defeated, the problem disappears.

Electing a non-bender somehow makes everyone happy and the problem is never addressed again. Just like electing Obama ended racism! Oh wait…

Unalaq: Spiritual Environmentalist or Environmental Satanist?

Unalaq

Pretends to be: A spiritualist concerned about the environment and the spirits. Basically Al Gore meets Tenzin Gyatso but willing to start a civil war over it.

Is actually: An occultist weirdo who wants to fuse with LITERALLY SATAN and usher in 10,000 years of darkness or something, and willing to start a war over it.

In an attempt to make a spiritual foil for Korra, who struggled with the spiritual parts of being the Avatar, the story took a weird turn and made a choice widely regarded as “fanfiction on crack” by having Unalaq aspire to become “The Dark Avatar”.

But it’s okay, you see, because while Unalaq’s criticisms of waning spirituality and lack of protection of holy sites could be seen as a knock against environmentalism, by the end Korra recognizes that Unalaq had a point and that the spirit portals should be left open.

So why exactly did Unalaq want to be the Dark Avatar and usher in an era of darkness? How was that supposed to resolve the problem he presented and Korra ended up agreeing with?

It doesn’t, and once again we are left with a contradictory centrist message of “protecting the environment is good but you should be suspicious of anyone that actually advocates for it”.

Also thanks for demystifying the origin of the Avatar and ruining the original lore for where bending came from with your Prometheus/Christian allegory. Ugh.

Zaheer: Spiritual Guru Fighting Against Modernity or A Charismatic Dummy Who Learned Everything About Anarchy From a Prager U Coloring Book

Zaheer

Pretends to be: An anarchist seeking to bring down oppressive regimes, therefor resetting the world to a more egalitarian time

Is actually: An idiot who doesn’t even know the difference between an ancom and an ancap and has no coherent ideology. He just wants chaos, I guess, which isn’t whah anarchy or anything is about.

Perhaps realizing they messed up so badly with Unalaq that even the creators were unhappy with the results, they attempted the spiritual foil idea again with Zaheer.

This time they actually had a writing staff which makes this season the agreed upon best of LOK.

But the tip-toeing around making any actual criticisms and falling back on the “both sides are bad” cop-out are only exacerbated by how uninformed and nonsensical Zaheer’s actions are. Not unlike Amon, he takes none of the steps an actual activist would take. He never even speaks to the people of Ba Sing Se to find out what they need or want. He just kills their leader, announces it, refuses to elaborate, then bounces and lets the city tear itself apart in the power vacuum.

It’s an entertaining spectacle! Just like his later torture of Korra is visceral. But none of it has any real substance to support it and so the horrific acts he commits feel like senseless edgelord tantrums.

Even Bolin knows it. Once Zaheer is defeated, Bolin shoves a sock in his mouth, therefor cementing Bolin as my favorite of the Krew for all time.

Kuvira: Literal Nazi or Literal Nazi but she didn’t mean it!

Kuvira

Pretends to be: A fascist, putting people in labor camps and uses the equivalent of an atom bomb to crush her enemies under heel in the name of unifying the continent under her control.

Is actually: All of those things but she had good intentions! She just went too far! Give her a slap on the wrists because her and Korra aren’t so different, you see!

Perhaps the most bizarre writing choice was to make the fascist the only truly sympathetic villain of this series. The reasons become quite clear, however, when we recognize one thing.

Yes, she’s styled after the Nazis.

Yes, her actions in modern day are more reminiscent of Russia.

But who is the only nation to have ever used a weapon of mass destruction on the level of the atom bomb? The USA.

And here is where the unwillingness to make a bold criticism or take a hard controversial stance is the most apparent.

Kuvira acts like a fascist and has a lot of Nazi-vibes, but she is also a grim reminder of the USA’s own imperial history. Of our flippant use of a horrifying technology that still continues to have consequences for the descendants of the victims even today. It is one of the worst violations of human rights and decency in history. And the USA is the only nation to have ever actually used one.

So if you ever feel it’s weird that Kuvira was arguably the worst of the villains but got off with only house arrest and a happy ending with hugs from her family? You’re not alone. Kuvira has to be “not that bad” or else you’re critiquing the USA itself. And that is a level of controversy this franchise doesn’t seem interested in dipping it’s toes into.

It’s the reason they equivocate and justify by having the Earth Prince step down and choose democracy. This isn’t an East Asian ideal. This wouldn’t have been a popular or virtuous choice in that time period. Many would’ve regarded it as tyranny of the majority, or a disorganized chaos without a consistent central authority.

It’s only seen as the perfect solution in the Democratic West. So you see, it’s not so bad, because at least we have democracy! We aren’t as bad as Kuvira who really isn’t all that bad either! Or so the narrative tries to apologize for itself.

And this is even more apparent with everyone’s problematic fav!

Varrick: How Elon Musk Wants Us To View Him vs What Elon Musk Wishes He Was

Varrick!

Is presented as: A quirky, funny, Tony Stark-esque genius who made a mistake and deserves a redemption!

Is actually: A war-profiteer willing to escalate tensions and shed the blood of his own people with no remorse to make money. Also he builds the equivalent of the atom bomb for Kuvira and her allegorical Nazis. But he gets a happy ending with a weirdly westernized wedding anyway!

Isn’t it telling that the villain who is written to be the most loveable and sympathetic is, in fact, the capitalist industrialist?

And not like that yucky evil industrialist Hiroshi Sato funding the Equalists and their civil rights movement.

No, no! Varrick is the good kind of industrialist! The kind that is non-political and mostly cares about money and inventions! After all, he only built a weapon of mass destruction for the Nazis, not the civil rights protestors!

Which brings us to…

Our Civilized Poverty vs their Savage Poverty!

And hey, that’s fair because look at the differences between Republic City and Ba Sing Se!

Sure, both had destitute populations starving and without proper shelter due to the disconnected elite leaders who didn’t care about their plight.

But the homeless people of Republic City are presented as jolly and helpful and never state a single grievance even as they live in a tent city underground! Everyone knows that democratic poverty is better! Therefor Sato was totally unjustified in funding an equality movement!

The poor people of BSS, on the other hand, are victims of that mean old non-democratic Earth Queen and later of the power vacuum left by her assassination, therefor their plight is ACTUALLY horrific. Kuvira may have been bad but she and Varrick are justified because of the unAmerican conditions!

Looking at it this way, so many of LOK’s problems fall into place. It perhaps serves as lesson in not tackling complex problems with the intention of a clean solution unless you’re willing to take a controversial stance and stick to your convictions.

I don’t think the creators intended to make a libertarian criticism of every social movement and apologia for capitalism and fascism. It’s just a sad reflection of what is and isn’t controversial in our current society. Divorced from actual morality or perspective.

What a waste.

This Post Brought To You By: Viewers Like You! (or: Check out this thing I made)

All that said, if you want a well-written and more adult take on the ATLA universe, check out the Kyoshi and Yangchen novels! F. C. Yee doesn’t pull any punches and perfectly balanced the darker, more visceral elements an adult story can have, with expert worldbuilding and humanized characters that feel believable even when they’re in fantastical situations.

Or if you want more ATLA instead, kindly check out @book4air: A project creating a pseudo Book 4 using both the official comics and original materials, fully dubbed, orchestrated, and partially animated by industry pros who happen to be fans!

Some comics are getting rewrites too, so whether you love the comics and want a fresh take, or hate the comics and want a change, we are doing our best to make this accessible for everyone including people with disabilities who may not be able to enjoy the originals.

Check out our first episode here!

If you can afford to, consider supporting us on Patreon! Every episode is expensive to produce and we are a bunch of broke artists. Some which don’t even have consistent or reliable housing. Any little bit helps.

If you can’t, no worries! You can still help by spreading the word so our videos can overcome the YouTube algorithm.

With all my love for this franchise and its fandom, I hope you all continue to enjoy your favs regardless of my criticisms.

[atla-confessions]

I've never understood why people are so against Azulademption and always thought Azula should've gotten a redemption arc post-show/in the comics when i found out there were ones.She dosen't have to join the Gaang or anything but i would've appreciated a healing arc for her and more character growth instead of just a tragedy and the aggression of Azula antis is very off-putting and their arguments feels hypocritical,unfounded and often both.'She didn't WANT a redemption arc'She was a 14 year old (child soldier,not incestous/pedophillic)grooming victim by her dad,ofc she didn't,she didn't even accept she'd been abused!!Y'all awful and this and Aang hate makes me hope y'all are only children jfc

X

[justanotherthrowaway1950]

The only thing I'll add is that Azula's solo comic heavily implies that the reason why she has not killed (Fire Lord) Zuko, Mai, Ty Lee, or Ursa, let alone engage in fully throated terrorism or start an (actual) uprising, despite having multiple opportunities to do so and probably needing to do so to retake the throne, is because she still cares for them.

Moreover, Azula's solo comic all but says that her problem isn't her ambition and lust for power, but her indoctrination and abuse, along with her cruelty, desire for revenge, and unwillingness to deal with the pain that would result from having to consciously admit she hurt the people she loved the most, making it impossible for her to have what she truly wants: loving friends and family that are with her because they want to be and would never betray her.

So the Azula went insane because of her ambition and lust for power” take has no support in canon whatsoever.

“Azula went insane because of her ambition and lust for power” is an extremely misogynistic take, especially since it’s completely inaccurate: Zuko lusted after the throne for nearly the entire series, while Azula hardly ever expressed any interest in it, and the main cause of Azula’s breakdown is that everyone she cared about left, abandoned, or betrayed her, mostly for reasons that were beyond her control.

[my-tatteredwingsof-freedom]

God the amount of tiktok/twitter people who severely misunderstand Azula as a character is so exhausting. Did we even watch the same show?

Azula was a victim of abuse just as much as Zuko but in an entirely different way. Ozai pit Azula and Zuko against each other because he realized he could do something with Azula that he couldn't with Zuko; he could mold her into the next version of himself. Azula one hundred percent was most like Ozai even when she was young. Zuko, on the other hand, held all the traits Ozai, and the Fire Nation as a whole, believed were weak; he was compassionate and curious, he believed in being fair and just, and he never saw sense in pointless death which we saw in the flashback of how he got his scar.

Azula, however, was young and already feeling like she was being separated as "different" by their mother; Ursa was not a perfect parent by any means. And Ozai gave Azula the praise and affection that he refused to give Zuko. Ozai celebrated her while Ursa shied away from her. Can you imagine being a little kid and knowing that your own mother viewed you as an outsider, a monster?

Like, i dunno, but parents favoring one over the other and pitting them against each other in everything at such young ages definitely feels abusive to me. Mentally and emotionally. And besides, we KNOW that the Fire Nation's teachings and histories were manipulative; their own historical texts they taught in SCHOOLS were WRONG. It isn't hard to figure that Ozai's parenting, even if he valued his daughter more, would be just as twisted and wrong. What would he have done if Azula had turned on him? If she had spoken out against him or did exactly what Zuko did in the war council? Ozai wouldn't have hesitated to hurt her to prove a point. He already did it to one kid. If Azula stopped being useful to him, stopped trying to please him and be the best at everything, there would be no way Ozai would have kept treating her like she was his pride and joy.

Azula was a victim of abuse and was groomed to become Ozai's successor. The amount of pressure that puts on a kid, especially one who from a young age already felt like a monster in the eyes of a parent that was supposed to love them, is one hundred percent abusive. Azula was the perfect child and it cost her everything. No, she wasn't a perfect person nor a good one. But she was a victim to not just Ozai, but the Fire Nation's corruption as a whole. She loved her brother. That was confirmed by the creators a long time ago; Azula loved Zuko more than anything but she also loved being better than him, than everyone, because that was what gained her their father's favor. It gave her the sense of satisfaction and the security of a parents love.

To see her be reduced to nothing but an insane and heartless killer is so exhausting. What's that quote? "My father is the worst man alive and I am his favorite daughter"?.

Azula was fourteen. She wasn't a good person by far but no child is born evil. But evil is a hundred percent taught.

[eponastory]

Alright here we go!

Azula: Netflix vs OG

Let's start off with OG first.

I guess it's safe to say she is the Cersei Lannister of AtLA. She is a character we love but also hate. I love her to bits, but I hate that she is just so conniving and cruel.

She is very well written and wonderfully voiced by the awesome Grey Delisle. She's just a well put together character that has a lot of personality flaws.

But she is also a victim, which I'll explain more about in a moment. But first, we have to look at her motivation in the OG show. Her motivation is personified in Zuko. He is her antithesis, which is represented by the color of their fire bending. Azula is naturally talented and well versed in fire bending where Zuko was not. She knows she is superior to him in that way. This drives her motivation to be the apple of Ozai's eye in a manner of speaking. We see this in the show when both siblings have to prove themselves to their Grandfather, Azulon. Zuko fails while Azula is praised. This pits the siblings against each other which we see portrayed differently in the Netflix Adaptation.

Moving on to her sneakiness and her takeover of Ba Sing Se. Where Iroh failed, she conquered. She did it decisively and in less than two weeks (I could be wrong on the timing, but this is the general consensus I see). Once again, she proves she is superior. But why does she have this idea of superiority? It's because she has been raised to believe this. It's been repeated over and over again through her entire childhood by her father, who was also taught this and so on.

I wish I could analyze everything, but others have done it better.

Now, let's talk about her mental breakdown. This is where I have a little concern on how it was portrayed in the show. It was... a little sudden, but bound to happen. The way it was shown was absolutely the way a mental breakdown can happen if the problems leading up are not addressed. All of Azula's life, she had been groomed by her father to be the perfect heir. At the end of book three, we see Ozai leave her behind. This is the straw that breaks the camels back in a sense. Ozai sees love as a weakness, and Azula loves her father, which is why she works so hard to please him. All he sees is a successor to him, and maybe a possible threat later on. There is only Ozai in this relationship. Azula sees this now, and it breaks her. He gives her the title of Fire Lord, but it's essentially worthless now because she still has to answer to him. It's what she wanted. However, she is still under Ozai's rule as he made a more superior title for himself.

It was a blow to her ego.

Now she is seeing her mother because she had always wanted her mother's love, but Ozai was the one who kept that away. He saw how Ursa's influence on Zuko had made his son weak. He corrected that with Azula. Let's be fair and say that daughters tend to idolize their fathers (coming from personal experience here), which is not bad in most cases, but it's really bad when dealing with a narcissist. That's why Azula breaks. And it's heartbreaking because we learn she is a victim of grooming.

Now, on to the next part.

The Netflix Adaptation

The mental breakdown has already started in the first season.

The signs are there, and it's glorious.

Ozai is actively seen pitting his children against each other. He keeps mentioning how Zuko is the one who found the Avatar, which is only fueling Azula's fire. Her anger is going to lead her down the road to hell, and it's going to be more chaotic than in the OG. Like I don't have much to say about it now, but if season 2 and 3 happen, it's gonna be fun.

I am a huge fan of seeing the slow cracking of the mask. So we will see how this goes.

While she is still conniving, Ozai sees it and throws Zuko in her face to edge her on. It's wonderful and as I said in my analysis of Ozai, he is a shit father for doing this. Why? Because it's all about him. He does not care and he is only in for his endgame.

Geeze, I went on forever with this. There are way better commentaries on this, but I'm way too lazy to go on and on forever. I have a story to write, and apparently, I'm doing a relationship analysis on Mai and Zuko next.

It's on my list of things to do.

[sokkastyles]

I think a lot of people don't understand that Azula turning against everyone in her life who isn't Ozai is literally a symptom of Ozai's grooming. It is NOT a sign that "everyone failed her," especially when we do see people trying to reach out to her. But people who groom children work to be the only person in that child's life that they feel they can trust, because it's easier for them to then exploit that trust.

And do you know what? The grooming process does not stop with the child victim. It usually involves other adults in the child's life as well, as the abuser both gains the trust of their victim's trusted adults while also working to further that rift and isolate the victim.

Ursa is actually a really good example of this, because she was also being groomed by Ozai to the point where she was forced into a situation where the only way she could help her children would put her out of their lives forever, and by that time Ozai had already created enough of a rift between Ursa and Azula that Ursa's attempts to teach Azula kindness just increased that rift.

To look at this situation and say that Ursa, or Iroh, or Zuko, or anyone other than Ozai is at fault is to buy into Ozai's manipupativeness.

Btw, Ursa saying in the comics to both her children that she "didn't love them enough" and blaming herself for the things Ozai did to all three of them is also a symptom of being groomed by Ozai, not an objective admission of guilt, smh.

[justanotherthrowaway1950]

@balsa-margarita I agree with everything you said except for the part where you suggested that Chief Arnook could help her. For even though we never saw him past Season 1 and he seemed to be at peace with Yue's sacrifice, I think he is likely to carry resentment against the Fire Nation, or at least Ozai and his war council, for the rest of his life.

And considering how at ease Azula seemed to be in Ozai's War Council in Season 3 and how she was the de facto Crown Princess during Season 1, I don't think it is crazy to believe that she was part of the war council meeting that decided to invade the North.

Thus, Arnook was touched by Azula’s actions as a child soldier, and therefore probably does not have the capacity to be merciful to her.

Though to make it clear, what I just said is headcanon and I agree with everything else you said.

Unpopular opinion: Most people in ATLA fandom underestimate the horrific implications of what was done to Azula.

“Get ‘em while they’re young and the possibilities are endless.” —Bart (Bob Hoskins), Unleashed (aka Danny The Dog)

Yes, people acknowledge that Ozai groomed to Azula to be a child soldier (yes, literally) in an offhand, abstract way, but let’s make this a little more concrete. 

Ozai was instrumental in Azula’s absolute readiness to inflict lethal force on her relatives and peers to further his agenda and to put herself in harm’s way to protect him and his interests. This doesn’t happen by accident. This is the result of deliberate and methodical action.

To anybody reading between the lines, the implications of this should be deeply troubling. Ozai got to work on Azula early. Furthermore, he probably intended to do so from the moment he became aware that she was a firebending prodigy, if not earlier.

We’re not privy to exactly what went on, but based on the distance between her and the rest of her family, even from an early age, we can infer that she’s been cut off from her mother, her brother, and her uncle. She’s been systematically isolated from anybody who could possibly intervene on her behalf. And this was done on purpose to more deeply indoctrinate her and to make her more dependent on his favor. 

This. Is. Horrifying. This is the kind of shit they do in cults. No, seriously (1). I mean that (2). 

Ozai is doing this to a child—not just a child: his child.

Unfortunately, most people in ATLA fandom see Azula in her single digits saying or doing some disturbing, adult-like things and point to that as proof that something is wrong with her than that something wrong is happening to her. They assume that because she’s capable and confident, that she’s not vulnerable. Or that because she doesn’t talk about how much she’s hurting, that she’s not suffering.

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

.not a zutara take but the you know who user, i dont like to name names ... but i really don't get the azula can't be a child solider cause privilege . being privileged doesn't mean you don't get abused of course she grew up believing the fn was great kids are indoctrinated into that belief. the more i read of ss bad takes i feel they just be living in a fantasy land though i can only read for ten seconds before my brain turns to sludge i i have zero idea how they get anyone supporting their awful takes.. they directly denied child abuse cause its not physical but mental/emotional.

i do wish this fandom would stop pinning characters against eachother. zuko and azula are abuse victims, aang is a genocide victim, katara /sokka are genocide victims who lost their mom.. yet theres his whole one suffer more than the other and these takes need to die they are so stupid.. .. all these kids suffered

God, that awful post. Azula is 14-years-old when see her having a role in a war, because her father and Fire Lord told her to, and clearly has been trained to be a soldier long before that. She is a child and a soldier, therefore she is a child soldier. Plain and simple.

Is she the only one? No. Were there others in her own family? Yes. Were these other child soldiers, including her brother, traumatized as well? Yes. Would Azula likely still be, at the very least, a somewhat ruthless, cruel, entitled person even without having ever been a child soldier? She's the princess of an imperialist nation that has been commiting genocide long before even her parents were alive, so yes, obviously.

But that does not change the fact that she WAS groomed to be a weapon/soldier, that she WAS indeed traumatized, and that this awful situation she was put in DID severely impacted her way of seeing the world around her and her own actions. These are facts, regardless of one's personal feelings on Azula as a character, if they like her at all, only like her if she's still a villain, would only like her if she was redeemed, etc.

And yeah, this fandom has a REALLY awful tendency to make trauma into a competition, which is disgusting. Is one thing to compare situations to explain why characters are the way they are (say, how Zuko's arc is informed by him being the escapegoat of the family, one that can't ever be good enough in his father's eyes, while Azula's is all about her being the goldenchild that is slowly being crushed under the pressure of being "perfect" otherwise she'll feel worthless because deep down she knows her dad won't love her if she "fails") but to go "Character A suffered more, therefore what Character B went through doesn't matter" is a gross misunderstanding of how trauma, and narratives, work.

[0rinthered]

I am so passionate about Orin, like no it isn't fair she doesn't ever get the chance and Durge doesn't help her or care after the fact. Ironically what Orin did saved everyone and got Durge freedom if they chose it. The fact that all you can really do is insult her or call her stupid besides the "you've been abused and used option" which is a high roll to even convince her is so sad. I don't like mocking her knowing the whole context and why she's doing what she is. It's not a choice really. It feels wrong to me. She's a victim of so much abuse and grooming from all these awful men. I mean Saravok is a creepy ass misogynist who r worded Orin's sister/mom and people mock her about that in way that's really messed up.

The only person who even seems to show a bit of empathy or at least understanding of her is Minthara when she is a big victim of her. Orin punishes people because she's punished by Bhaal, I saw people post the dev notes the tragic context they should have made clear in the game. That she would have even tried to resist Bhaal before and when she did she got killed for it. In a fucked up way Minthara is the closest thing to showing her "love" or at least care, like I know it's not love but just someone like not being horrible to her or looking down on her for existing. She even says they had similar situations and upbringings so you save her that kind of fate. She said she saw herself reflected in Orin broken too. Sad about all the content they didn't give us because I know they said they wanted more Orin/Minthara stuff but I think ti deserved more than a few lines.

Orin's father is literally a child r*pist and apparently has a line where he says he likes her the same way he does her mom? LIKE WTF? and wants her to make babies with durge? I don't know if it is confirmed if he assaulted her or not but he obviously would if he wanted. He shows a lot of hate like he didn't effect what happened if he's mad about what Orin did to Durge. Felt so horrible killing her in the scene after you tell her the truth because she's totally a slave in body then too. It broke my heart. I don't like that they didn't make her background more of the forefront and just let people see her as this crazy one unless you think about her or find tidbits. She felt like a throwaway to me when she's so tragic and she's just mocked and hated by everyone. I hate abused children/women being painted as "crazy psychos" to make fun of. She's severely mentally ill. Ketheric is not a more sympathetic character, he chose to do all he did. Gortash is given more dignity and choice than her. I think Ketheric and his performance are overrated honestly, he just got more screentime and got to be more fleshed out so they say he's better. That's why people go "orin is just an unhinged boring murderhobo" SHE AND AZULA DESERVED SO MUCH BETTER

Yeah it's pretty frustrating - a lot is implied with her but man you really have to look for it, which a lot of people don't bother to do. Orin in my opinion is the most interesting of the three.

I know the general opinion seems to sway to Ketheric, and I really like him, but I think it's pretty ah... shallow? For lack of a better word. Maybe surface level? Like it's very straight forward in my opinion, which doesn't mean it's any less than Orin or Gortash but I think it's easier to absorb if that makes sense?

Whereas with both Orin and Gortash you really need to sniff around, Orin especially. Minthara is the companion she is attached to, as Gortash is Karlach (While it seems like the only connection Ketheric has to the camp is Shadowheart, but that's through Dame Aylin and Isobel strangely enough. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. But he has an entire act to himself so...). But with Minthara, she is so so so easy to miss and thoughtlessly slaughter (ironically enough) so that's a whole bunch of Orin content absolutely nuked off of the bat.

So I suppose the bizarre pacing is to blame for Orin and Gortash kinda farting around, and Orin not being treated fairly compared to how the fandom treats durge. Again, quite "fitting" I guess. Orin doesn't get that privilege of pity and a chance at life whereas Durge gets two chances. The first being actually having a life outside of the temple, and the second being the tadpole. Why? Idk.

I don't even want a redemption for Orin. I think the choice should be there, and I think the choice should be made by her. Only her.

My ideal world would be Orin can escape, stay (what we currently have), or escape in her own little Orin way. To elaborate on that... I think Orin should be able to continue slaughtering people, but I think she should do it for herself. Not for Bhaal, not for the temple. But because SHE wants to. I do however think the ""novelty"" of that for her would vanish pretty quickly once there's no unholy purpose to it, but that's just part of the growth I guess. So she rejects Bhaal, and skitters away into the shadows. She isn't going to have a character arc in like a week and dye her hair white - despite Shadowheart and Orin's similarities - I unfortunately think it'll take a lot lot lot longer and might never happen.

Still, the main point is that she has a choice, something she has been devoid of her entire life. What she chooses to do with that is up to her and that's the beauty of it.

I could go on and on and on about it and how she should actually be given lots of choices but that would just be me rambling even more than I already am LMFAO

Anyway, Orin I love you pookie boobookeys, remember that there's more to life than pleasing someone who never seems to want to please you.

[avatarfandompolice]

Ursa faked letters saying that Zuko wasn’t Ozai’s son leading him to hate him more. She weaponized her own son against Ozai knowing he already hated him, and still a great mother??

she used it as ammunition against Ozai to show she had power over him.

No one here is calling Ursa a "great mother." She was an abuse victim as much as her children were. Being understanding and cognizant of Azula and Zuko's struggles with being abused while berating Ursa for it is hypocritical and completely incorrect. Her decision making as a mother was skewed by the fact that she was ripped from her village at 19, forced to marry a man she didn't love, speed-groomed into the role of a royal family member, and then forced to have children with said man that she didn't love. Oh, and that man was a narcissistic, psychotic, violent, war-hungry asshole.

She is not a great mother, but she did the best with what she could. Pretending she was actively some horrible mother or that she was not generally a positive influence (perhaps the ONLY positive influence) on Azula and Zuko is just scapegoating, which is fucking RIDICULOUS considering her abusive, tyrannical husband was right there and the cause of ALL OF IT.