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waitmyturtles · 2 years ago

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Hi! I wanted to first of all say I've deeply enjoyed what you've written about various shows, especially your observations, meditations, insights, etc. around family dynamics, intergenerational trauma, etc. For MLC, I've been chewing over some parts of Jim and Li Ming's relationship. It was interesting to see how quickly their interactions became positive and easy after that post-funeral conversation and understanding, and it made me think that their relationship probably had a good foundation, that we met them at a time where it was strained and deteriorating to a crisis point, but since they were able to resolve their conflict they could return to and even build on the baseline they already had. I've thought about the way Jim and Li Ming are so similar being part of the reason they clash so much. I've thought about the way the past casts such a long shadow in Jim's heart. I've thought about how Jim said he and Jam ran away from home when they were Li Ming's age. There is a thing I've read and heard brought up by therapists and even seen discussed in parenting advice columns, where someone will experience something traumatic when they are young, and they'll grow up, be raising children, and when the children reach the same age they were when they experienced The Thing, the trauma can come roaring back in a big way. I wonder if that period in Jim's life--running away young and trying to eke out a living--was particularly hard/traumatic, and if Li Ming entering that same stage in life, with its very similar concerns of poverty and queerness (plus the pile-up of stressors we see happen in the show) is part of what's activating so much fear and overwhelm in Jim. There's a distinct quality to Jim in the worst of these fights where it seemed to me like he wasn't fully present, that the shadow cast by those past fears and hurts was just so very strong in those moments it was overwhelming. (I also think a lot about the fact that he refuted Jam's attempt to place blame on Li Ming being gay on himself, and refuted it being wrong or blameworthy at all, but then confided in Wen that he couldn't help but blame himself--that ambivalence of refuting the Wrong Idea on the one hand but deep down worrying that the Wrong Idea might be true was, in form if not in specific content, astoundingly relatable to me, I felt such overwhelming empathy for Jim there, but that's a different conversation) It was noticing this about Jim's arguments, and Jim's comments about him and Jam running away around Li Ming's age, that set me on this particular path of reflecting. That, and seeing how quickly things got better for them after some breakthrough communication... I thought if things could so quickly turn out this well, surely their baseline must have been better than the dynamic with which we were introduced to them--how and why, then, did it get so bad? I dunno, I just thought this could be one of the pieces of the puzzle of Why Jim Was Being Like That. Anyways, thanks for reading and being your awesome self <3

Oh, dearest Anon. Thank you so much for the wonderful feedback, and for this beautiful write-up, which isn't really an ask, but actually a FABULOUS STANDALONE ANALYSIS -- I'm deeply touched you directed it my way, my heart is so full. (This is going to be a long response.)

You know me well (thank you for reading along, dear Anon!), and I was just thinking about this during dinner last night. I was thinking more on @wen-kexing-apologist's wonderful post, "Moonlight Chicken Is for the Queers," and why I'm so drawn in particular to Asian QL content, even though I'm a cishet mama.

I feel like I've been waiting my whole life for drama content about Asian families, created as intelligently and CRITICALLY as P'Aof and his related group of directors and screenwriters have done over the last few years. Watching these shows -- even though I am not queer -- is like art therapy for me. As a child of Asian immigrants, my sibs and I went through a lot, a lot. I'm reckoning with this shit now as a parent, maybe even à la Jim and Li Ming. I can totally relate to traumatic stuff from my past bubbling up in the course of my parenting -- the way I TALK to my kids, the way I interpret something they're doing as annoying, or (EVEN WORSE) them doing something "on purpose to annoy me" -- when in fact, my kids are being totally normal for their age. I have to check myself every second of every day, and it's exhausting.

We -- all of us as an audience -- I think, are very lucky to be watching this art at this moment in time. Even with the context of this material being set in a QL, I'm seeing other non-QL GMMTV shows tackle huge trauma issues (like 10 Years Ticket, which I highly recommend, and I can't wait to start on The Warp Effect, too, which I know is QL-ish). While the context of a QL provides a framework and structure around stories that feature minority figures, I believe that P'Aof and the other amazing GMMTV artists are saying something in their shows about the Asian cultures that I am from and relate to. The Asian family unit is A -- if not, THE -- dominant framework of an Asian individual's perspective on life, for their lives. I'm American, so I absolutely have grappled with this Asian family collectivist vision and the inherent contradiction of living in individualistic America. But that's why I watch these shows, and can even relate to the struggles of queer characters in these shows, even without being queer. Because being "different" in the Asian family unit is just DIFFICULT, no matter how you slice it. (I was different because... I wanted to stand up to my parents, which was not acceptable, no way, no how.) And perceptions about the Asian family unit absolutely bleed into general Asian societal viewpoints as well.

Anyway. My desire to learn more about families and who we are vis à vis family frameworks actually led me to my career, ha. With that in mind, a couple of other response points:

1) If you (or anyone out there) ever plan on becoming a parent, I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND reading an amazing book called "Parenting From the Inside Out" by Dan Siegel. In fact, I'd probably just recommend this book to anyone who wants to get to know THEMSELVES at any point in their lives, children or no children. The book essentially says: if you don't reckon with your past, and how you were raised, and how you developed and REACTED to that experience -- you will miss out on opportunities for real self-actualization as a parent and as an adult.

Anon, you mentioned that at times, Jim didn't seem to be "fully present" in fights with Li Ming, and I totally agree with that read. I want to note that being "fully present" is like "enlightenment" to me. It is an ideal state that is tremendously difficult to achieve, especially in the minute day-to-day life of a parent, whether you're a parent to a young OR an old child.

In that context, you are so very right about the micro- and macrosystemic stressors that face Jim, and I want to take a quick note of them, because they're very real. This book is somewhat controversial (theories around education always are controversial), but gets into socioeconomic and environmental stressors: Whatever It Takes, about the founding of the Harlem Children's Zone by Geoffrey Canada. Again, many controversies exist about this model and how it's been portrayed over the years, but what I want to point out is: poverty and other socioeconomic stressors (like crime, police presence, drug use, unstable housing options, lack of food, lack of internet, etc.) can literally have both physical and emotional impacts. Brain development can literally be impacted by these stressors, even with fetuses in utero, let alone young children watching their family units face these stressors.

Jim is facing a WORLD of stress -- as the very first episode of MC laid out very clearly for us. The world is getting more expensive as vendors make less, or the same income. Absolutely, the stress of being poor and gay (sound familiar?) impacted him throughout his whole life to lead him to the moment that WE see him in the show.

This leads to my next thought:

2) You've certainly heard the phrase: "my mother, myself" -- which refers in part to repeating your parents' mistakes. (I probably say this phrase about once a day, along with a tiny scream.) If you're a parent who is trying to understand yourself from the context of WHO YOU WERE AS A CHILD, and how you were raised by YOUR OWN PARENTS, that MIGHT get you closer to that ideal state of being fully present. (That's the work that Dan Siegel recommends in his book.)

That leads to my next thought, which connects these two points together:

3) You are totally right to point out the context of Jim and Jam having moved from their rural village. They're both also hesitant about Li Ming moving to America.

What did "moving" do to Jim and Jam? We don't know that much, except that they were leaving a certain fate, to become farmers like their grandparents.

I'm going to take a guess -- borrowing both from my immigrant parents' experience, and from ATOTS, ha -- that running away HAD TO HAVE BEEN TRAUMATIC for Jim and Jam. AND, Anon, to your point about intergenerational trauma: Jim and Jam almost certainly had to have shared that trauma, unknowingly, with Li Ming.

They left their first home. Jim ran away from home while being poor and gay. Jam tried to build homes for Li Ming and failed. She sent Li Ming to live with Uncle Jim. Jim then faced the prospect of building a home for Li Ming. All while being poor and gay as an adult.

That's hit, after hit, after hit, after hit. Jim and Jam carry that with them. And Li Ming carries with him the trauma of moving, and moving, and moving, as well.

Immigrants most often don't go back "home" permanently -- certainly many do, but most don't. And yet.... "home," at least for my parents, was always back in Asia. In ATOTS, "home" for Tian WAS Bangkok, and ended up BEING the village in Chiang Mai.

In MC, what was home for Jim? Oh, my heart, how that gets revealed over the course of the show. When Wen, sleeping on Jim's lap, asks him, in the living room of Jim's rented house -- "do you take this house as a home?" For Wen, and for Jim, home ultimately was what they were going to build TOGETHER.

All of those stressors -- the moving, the identity obstacles, the poverty -- prevented Jim from being able to build a home, holistically, until he met Wen. And I might even posit, ooooh, let me go here -- I might even posit that Jim's ability to level with Li Ming, to see Li Ming for the man that Li Ming is on the cusp of becoming, happened because Jim was simultaneously in the process of discovering himself vis à vis Wen's love, by beginning to build a family with Wen. I think we see Jim developing that stronger sense of presence that you, Anon, noted wasn't there during Jim's and Li Ming's fights.

In relation to what you were saying, Anon, about when things got bad for Jim and Li Ming, I also want to note that it's just really important to understand the context of how younger Asians engage with Asian elders/parents, which @telomeke writes about eloquently here. I'm going to leave this aside in this analysis, but please note that these dynamics are also hugely important in how Jim and Li Ming are set up to engage.

(Anon, thank you for noticing my obsession with Aof and intergenerational trauma, because I haven't seen anyone in dramaworld analyze it better than him.)

In any case, I don't necessarily think that things were dualistically bad-to-good for Jim and Li Ming. I think that, likely, things were ALWAYS COMPLICATED, between an uncle facing an enormous amount of pressure and trauma; and a pre- to post-pubescent teen discovering himself, his sexuality, his first attraction, and contemplating an unknown future -- all while certainly sharing the stressors of the stand-in parent that is raising him. Shit was complicated between Jim and Li Ming, and certainly would stand to still be that way, if we ever get lucky to have an update via an MC Our Skyy 3 (let's pray together for it, ha).

4) Two more quick notes. P'Aof certainly has a genius of showing many facets to the same character, and I just love that he critically shies away from singular or dualistic interpretations of his dear characters. When, as you note, Jim doesn't play the blame game IN FRONT OF JAM, and secretly blames himself to Wen that Li Ming might be gay BECAUSE of him (Jim) -- it indicates not only the intimacy he has with Wen, that he can talk about this stuff with Wen (swoon), but it also reveals the generational perspective that certainly differs between Jim and Li Ming. Possibly, in the course of Jim's busy life, trying to survive as a gay man, working his ass off, in poverty, partly while getting cheated on by that POS, Beam -- Jim just didn't have the time or space to contemplate the roots of his understanding of who he is. (Then again... not everyone is as self-exploratory as yours truly, HEH.)

5) I totally agree with you about the foundation of Jim's and Li Ming's relationship being better than we think, even if, as you note, we were privy to some of their most stressful moments. I just want to leave this post with the screencaps of their last intimate conversation, because I think in only a few words, so much was revealed. Jim revealed himself to Li Ming. At this moment -- he parented from the inside out. He told Li Ming, admitted to the kid -- kid, you made ME a better person.

That's revelation -- the kind of adult revelation, vis à vis a parent-to-child relationship, that you really don't see happen much in Western content. And it just THRILLS me, as I've written before, that this is happening in ASIAN MEDIA, because I think Asian family units definitely are ripe for the kind of brilliant criticism that P'Aof levels at them.

ANON -- sorry to unspool like this! You gave me a lot of inspiration. I'm having such an MC hangover, and you handed this to me like a hair of the dog, ha. I hope you didn't mind this long post, and thanks again for the wonderful note!

#moonlight chicken #moonlight chicken meta #earth pirapat #fourth nattawat #jim and li ming #asian family units #asian parenting #intergenerational trauma #intergenerational trauma in asian families #backaof noppharnach #thanks for the ask!#i can't stop thinking about this wonderful show #the last time i was like this was after the cherry magic movie #it took me months to let go oh lord

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