#asexual doctor

[l00r0ll]

[variousqueerthings]

A Smallish Masterpost On The Doctor And Asexuality/Aromanticism

Back in 2019 I apparently made this post about The Doctor and asexuality and aromanticism on my other blog and I have nooo memory of it. so, updated version that's got a bit more going for it:

A small masterpost of various people talking about The Doctor's "Asexuality" - feat. asexuality, aromanticism, demisexuality, demiromanticism, allosexuality, alloromanticism, and a whole squiggly set of queer concepts, as well as discussions about sexism

NOTE: additions are welcome, and forgive the rambles

So classic!who presented the Doctor as a type of asexual, in which the asexuality was a facet of alienness, rather than necessarily based in any community identification of the label -- in the real world, there's documentation of the word asexual since at least the early 1900s (so in tandem with the increasing use of homo, bi, and heterosexual, if not as widespread), as well as overlaps with other communities and labels, such as bisexual and lesbian communities (which both include/d ace people), dandyism, etc. -- so a rich, complex history bubbling beneath all of this (the most famous coining of asexual is in I believe a manifesto from 1978 off the top of my head)

this real world stuff was not what was going on in the world of Doctor Who when it was called Asexual as far as I'm aware - although, I mean... I'm sure there were actual ace and aro fans...? - but it's interesting to know that it was definitely going on, and so no matter what the intent was (alienness, the doctor intended as patriarchal/teacher-like, the doctor intended as for children, etcetc) there is some real overlap with actual asexuality at the time, including within the word itself

and then a bunch of people got really pissed off when the Eighth Doctor broke the rule that the Doctor must always be totally disconnected from romance- waaait but that's not asexuality. And yeah, that's the other thing. Asexuality is used interchangeably as being both aromanticism and asexuality and aroaceness, because people just don't know better- we'll try to make distinctions, but it can be difficult, with how others were conflating, so be Prepared for that in below

in Nu!Who the doctor seemingly got a bit friskier, so let's take a look at that as well

1. First some general Doctor Who – the first asexual Doctors:

The question of the Doctor's sexuality was a controversial one. It was fanon for decades that he was asexual; fans used the Fourth Doctor's line in City of Death that Countess Scarlioni was "probably" beautiful as proof. Sixth Doctor actor Colin Baker agreed with this theory, saying, "Love is a human emotion and the Doctor isn't human." (REF: The Television Companion) Both Matt Smith[6] and Tom Baker (DOC: Getting Blood from the Stones) have identified that their respective Doctors are asexual and clueless to human sexuality; both exploited this for visual humour

(note: Steven Moffat made the comment that the eighth doctor “hit puberty” which were very controversial, but Moffat has often made controversial statements in regards to asexuality, suggesting that he finds it “boring” to write in relation to Sherlock Holmest:

It’s the choice of a monk, not the choice of an asexual. If he was asexual, there would be no tension in that, no fun in that – it’s someone who abstains who’s interesting

(it's ironic that Sherlock Holmes is his other show considering Holmes himself as an asexual icon being sexualised more and more in recent iterations -- but also that arguably Elementary's Sherlock was kind of aromantic and allosexual, which is a Very Very Rare Thing To Write)

These gifs of Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy pretty much sum up the idea of classic!who smooching People

CB: He's an alien, so what's he doing messing around with human women for? For heavens sake SM: You know Doctor Who had been very successful for 30 year without canoodling anywhere

Both of these have a tad of the "asexuality is for aliens" + "allosexuality as a whole is not for this show" (which isn't quiiite true, considering the objectification of several of the companions, who did canoodle with some people... just not the doctor)

This video is a great little rundown of the queer history of Doctor Who and includes this nugget from Steven Moffat back in the day of Discourse around the Eighth Doctor being a bit less Asexual than previous incarnations:

"What on Earth (or elsewhere) is the fuss about the Dr snogging his companion? Nowhere in the series does it *ever* state that the Doc is asexual (it's purely an assumption on the part of the fans) and the fact that he has a a grandaughter might lead the pedants among us to conclude otherwise (and no it wasn't a term of affection - that's just another assumption and an entirely baseless one at that.) We know that humans and Time Lords are mutually sexually attracted (Susan and Whats-his-name, Leela and Thingummy, The Doctor and that-Aztec-woman) and that the Dr favours bimbos in mini-skirts (what, you think he was choosing them for their brains?) The most you could conclude from watching the show is that he's a little reticent about involvement (not surprising when your inability for commitment extends to your entire home planet!) So if the Doc's vow of celibacy is a fan assumption which flies directly in the face of the established continuity, why would you think a new series would pay any heed to it? Steven Moffat P.S. I mean, the guy has one snog in thirty years of saving our planet and you're all complaining! You utter, utter bastards!!

I think what's also interesting about this comment is the inevitable link between allosexuality and sexism that also exists in Steven Moffat's tenure as showrunner. how does one show a [man] into a [woman?] By making her wear short skirts and having the dude make comments about it of course

Also very funny it actually hits upon a very good point -- there are allosexual Timelords (I'd disagree about the Doctor and that-Aztec-woman) (second note here about how even in this message it's kind of clear how secondary romance was for DW, the romantic partners are Not memorable characters), so if the Doctor is sort of... not like the other Timelords, then the asexuality and aromanticism is not alien... it's the Doctor

2.  A bit about the show's attitude towards writing the Doctor as asexual and how that interest has waned over the years:

But that was then and this is now, and the discussion over whether or not the Doctor is still an asexual character has certainly become very heated. Many fans have asked whether or not the Doctor can still be considered asexual, given the nature of the current show. John Richards, in a brilliant and surprisingly funny essay for Queers Dig Time Lords titled “The Heterosexual Agenda,” lamented the aggressive assertion of the Doctor’s heterosexuality

This is the Confidential episode around The Girl In The Fireplace around the Doctor and "snogging" and ways in which fans might read it (fans can "explain it away" as "she kissed him")

In it we get a bit more about Moffat's whole... deal... around women and the Doctor. It's interesting because he argues that it works because Madame de Pompadour is a "match" for the Doctor due to being well-educated and civilised and multi-talented... "if the Doctor was going to settle down, it would be a girl like this," in the season in which one might argue the main romance is with Rose, a working-class woman who never finished highschool

so a bit about the ways sexism, classism, and heteronormativity also play into the writing of a "more allosexual" Doctor...

It also includes DT saying they had an extraordinary relationship that was over before it began -- I just like how he refers to it without attempting to label it

the framing of the confidential episode is very romantic, just so you're prepared. It also has more unintentional framing of the Doctor's potentially "falling in love" as a more "human" emotion (in contrast to alien emotions of not falling in love)

as you can hear, it conflates allosexuality and alloromanticism throughout

3.  Eleven, He's A Little Confused But He's.... kinda? Got the Spirit (and an unfortunate slice of sexism/heteronormativity):

One thing has been a constant, though — the Doctor himself has been entirely asexual, save for the notorious on-screen kiss during Paul McGann’s performance as the Eighth Doctor in the one-off special made during the show’s wilderness years, a kiss that had fans outraged precisely because it was so out of character and proved that the producers behind the telemovie had no idea what they were doing.

It’s interesting how recent Doctor Who has, if anything, emphasized this idea of the Doctor’s asexuality; Matt Smith said earlier this year that his version of the character was “more asexual than some of the others,” and in 2011 he answered a question about whether his version of the Doctor is at all interested in sex as follows: “No. The Doc’s idea of an orgy is playing chess with an ostrich. His brain doesn’t work in that way. He would find it weird and peculiar. He finds women peculiar. He is quite asexual.”

The idea that the Doctor “finds women peculiar” is probably one that says more about Matt Smith than it does about the Doctor’s character — 30 years of Doctor Who history rather contradict the idea that the Doctor finds women any stranger than men, and in general he has been characterized by his enduring affection for humanity in general, regardless of gender.

In general the way people talk about Matt Smith’s doctor to me, often has a bit of infantilisation along with it - of course we can read him as ace, because he’s boyish, hyperactive, and distracted... he's weird and alien

There's also this cute little fan-video that has some Nine, Ten, and Twelve but is mainly focusing on Eleven's asexual Vibes in a couple of scenes, which actually is something I've always struggled a little more with, because Moffat had Eleven doing sexist shit occasionally and was also soooo male-gazey, but it's also got one of my favourite ace moments for the Doctor period ("I WAS NOT EXPECTING THIS!????")

(the scenes with Amy in this exemplifies so much of what I dislike about Moffat, but it's also fascinatingly The Tightrope Of Asexuality -- Amy is essentially violating the Doctor's consent over and over, but it's fine because "he's" a "bloke" -- she then goes on to show the Doctor's former companions on screen.... but notably only the women, and making a biiig mistake in including I think both Zoe and Ace, who were teenagers when they travelled with the Doctor... implying that that was... idek......)

I will also acknowledge here that while I don't think Moffat ever got... super comfortable writing queerness, he did get much, much better and stopped constantly referring to the doctor as a "bloke," who does bloke-y things (like objectify women, care too much about machinery/the TARDIS, and be a playboy who whisks away young girls in order to seduce them, I guess?)

and I personally think that the gender component plays into the Doctor's increased asexual vibes in his run (which is ironic considering where Moffat started lol), but I'd have to do wa-HAY more of a deep dive to actually confirm that... just a theory.... but also interesting that asexuality and aromanticism is more fine, because the Doctor is not a bloke......

it's complicated

4. Ten, The Jessica Rabbit Effect (just because you think they're hot doesn't mean they want to fuck)

[Patrick Troughton and Sylvester McCoy] would hardly have been much cop as Casanova; the 2005 TV role for which Tennant won much praise. Perhaps that's why the Times christened him "the first Timephwoard". "That's the Times?" he boggles. "It's, er, quite surprising..." Or why the Pink Paper voted him the Sexiest Man In The Universe, above Brad Pitt and David Beckham.

in general, it seems unequivocal to me that ten doesn’t like getting hit on, even playfully [...] not only does he seem consistently uninterested in these advances, but in most cases, a bit confused and/or unsettled by the idea of being hit on by anyone. contrary to the ‘space casanova’ narrative frequently espoused by magazines and interviewers, in reality ten is no stud. far from it. apart from with rose, he never reciprocates flirtatious behavior, nor does he ever seem pleased to be on the receiving end of it. 

https://tenscupcake.tumblr.com/post/126914939560/dunderklumpen-that-smug-face-needs-to-be

[Link to a gifset in which The Witch in The Shakespeare Code tries to seduce the Doctor and he answers “now that’s one form of magic that definitely won’t work on me.

the second/third/fourth gifs are of David T saying: “she nearly kisses me. I don’t nearly kiss her. It’s an important distinction.”

This interview is around the time the final RTD/DT episodes were beginning to air

Interviewer: Lots of snogging you've done, there was- DT: Not lots Interviewer: More- I'm trying to think now I don't remember any of the previous doctors- DT: More than Jon Pertwee did, yes Interviewer: Yes a lot more than Jon Pertwee... what-how come...? DT: I can't help it if the ladies of the Universe are flinging themselves at me, you know? Its not, you know, it's just part of the job I have- It's- usually it's not a sexual thing with the Doctor. He's a fairly asexual character. Interviewer: So what's with the kissing then? DT: Well, I don't think- there's a genetic transfer as it was once... or, and you know these women just can't help themselves, I don't know-

5.  12, Too Old To Be Romantic?

Capaldi talking about his relationship with Clara, noting the age-difference as reasons why they would never be a romantic couple (the subtext here is non-sexual as well, although it conflates the two).

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/sep/15/doctor-who-needs-lots-more-kissing-according-to-peter-capaldi

[Capaldi] said there was “no romance, but deep love” between the Doctor and Clara, played by Jenna Coleman.

“It would have been completely creepy,” the star told the Radio Times. “It’s fine if you have handsome young men like Matt [Smith] and David Tennant, but as a father I felt it would be inappropriate.

Capaldi laughed off complaints that his first full episode last year was promoting a gay agenda after it featured a kiss between a lizard woman and her human wife. “I think it was good,” he said.

“Actually it’s not just lesbian. It’s across species, which is even worse, presumably. It’s crazy if people get up in arms about it. There should be lots more kissing in Doctor Who. So long as it’s not the Doctor and Clara.”

Honestly I wonder how much the hype died down because he was no longer young and "hot." Skill issue honestly

6.  The Doctor and The Master/Missy 

I feel like I don't have enough on this, and that's also a facet of the whole "is the Doctor now allosexual and alloromantic." It seems to only really come up in relation to the [seemingly] het relationships

I don't really see much in relation to the Doctor and Jack (who's canonically in love with the Doctor) or the Doctor and Simm's Master -- I mean, fanfic, yes, but not bigger article-worthy discussion...

(and Jamie and the Doctor and Adric and the Doctor and Alan Turing and the Doctor......)

so if anyone has a bit to add on that

Most of it is in relation to... Moffat's sexier "Missy." (sigh). However very interested in what Michelle Gomez (who was excellent as the character!) had to say about it:

She added a female time lord "blows open all these new possibilities for different relationship that couldn't have happened before" but denied the idea of sexual chemistry between Missy and the Doctor.

"You're reading into it something I've never even thought of," she said.

The Scottish star added: "With [the Doctor’s young companion] Clara, it would have been straight away, ‘What is the romantic connection, does the Master fancy her?’ No. We can move past that, into something much more interesting, much more detailed, which is life. That’s what life is. It’s not all black and white."

Idk, she seems to get something intrinsic about the possibilities of all this that many others don't

Gifset of The Mistress (being questioned by Clara on the nature of Missy’s/the Doctor’s relationship): Try, nanobrain, to rise above the reproductive frenzy of your noisy little food chain and contemplate friendship.

I find the whole post quite charming actually, it's a small moment in Doctor Who fandom from a specific person. I don't even remember how I originally found it

7. Misc

I don't really have anything on Thirteen currently, because I haven't seen all of those seasons yet. I know Yaz/Thirteen is very shipped, I assume I'll prooobably feel similarly to all the other Doctor/Companion ships in that I'll be going at it from an aromantic lens

I have seen discussions about how the Doctor’s perceived romantic and/or sexual relationship with this person or other (insert your preferred person here, Rose, Madame de Pompadour, River…) has made him too human, too normal. Discussions that assume that romantic and sexual attraction is an inherent part of human experience, so removing them from a character makes him alien.

This is about the way "Asexuality" (meaning aroaceness) applied purely to alien creatures isn't... great... for aroace people

I have lost count of the number of times I’ve heard fans discuss wanting a more alien “asexual Doctor”, which is generally taken to mean “no romance in the Tardis.”

It often goes back to the same questions: is the Doctor's "Asexuality" (that is, asexuality and aromanticism) purely used to indicate the alien? When John Smith is human he falls in love and asks "what sort of a man" the Doctor is that falling in love didn't occur to him. Many classic actors (whom I have a great deal of affection for) tend to use alien as the reason for the so-called Asexuality, and that seems to lie at a lot of the fans discomfort with a more "sexy" Doctor of nu!who, rather than anything to do with character or portraying asexuality and aromanticism in sci-fi

and on the flipside, people who very much like an alloromantic and allosexual Doctor dismiss aroace Doctor reads because of things that are absolutely within the purview of an aroace experience (I've seen anything from having a grandkid to being hot to caring about others to knowing what sex is)

I wonder if actually consciously writing an aroace Doctor would make people really uncomfortable as well, since it would remove the "alienness" from the idea of it... also it would make people who really really like allosexual and alloromantic Doctor angry too... so no winning I guess

I wonder how Ncuti Gatwa alongside RTD's queerness will redefine the subtext of it all once again...

[tenderlywicked]

As it turns out, April 6th is International Asexuality Day! I'm a bit late for the party (it's already well past midnight where I live), but here's a little present: I posted And Silence Afterwards (my Doctor Who fic featuring the asexual Doctor) on Wattpad too.

Summary: The Doctor and the Master are both the stuff of legend in the kinky world, but outside of it, their personal life is a mess. (Human AU, fake dating, BDSM, hurt/comfort, and lots of angst.)

+ The story on AO3

[aletterinthenameofsanity]

Surprise! 11amy fic for the masses!

In which I was scrolling @saint-eleventh's blog (as is my wont) and got inspired to write another 11amy fic- my first non-ambiguous one, at that! There's an actual kiss in this one, and ironically enough, it's on the one that I once again establish my asexual Eleven agenda. Ironic, in some ways. Also it gives a different interpretation/ending to the final scene of Flesh and Stone than the show does. For those who are interested:

@camcorderrevival @mojavephonebooths @ameliapondmd

[vroomvroomwee]

Steven Moffat take over a show where the main character is canonically ace and NOT give them a love interest that comes in the form of a capable powerful dominant woman that somehow gets "put in her place" by said main character and write their relationship as sexual and make things weird challenge impossible

[lesbiantrish]

continued my ace doctor propaganda by changing my blog title …. hehe…

[inhonoredglory]

He's always been a queer bi trans demi ace pan genderfluid nonbinary being 🏳️‍🌈 (tenth doctor edition) [og post]

[ceruleanharley]

ah yes the 4 sexualities of tumblr

[g1ngerbeer]

its that time of year

[sbarrysncream1]

Hey, I know everything sucks ABSOLUTE ASS right now, (although, I'd honestly prefer sucking ass to this) but please know that there are still good people in the world. I'm not great with words, and I dont know how good I am at making people feel better, but just know there ARE people out there who love you and support you, even if you dont know them.

Please don’t go away. I know everyone thinks they won, but the only way they could completely win is if you disappear. And you’re still here!! You beautiful, gorgeous human being thing, you!! So please keep going and keep fighting

also, if there are other flags that were not included in this post, please reblog or comment with the flag you'd want and I'll happily make one and tag you in the post! It literally takes 5 seconds, so I'd be more than happy to!

anyways, we will be okay, and just know that I am so proud of you for still being here ❤️

(and so are they ⬆️)

We'll be okay.

[timespacegirls]

diversity win!! the doctor just asexually reproduced

[variousqueerthings]

people calling ten "the romantic and/or sexual doctor" are fascinating, because they're looking at the fact that the writing puts that doctor into positions where others project their attraction onto him, and he reacts on some scale from this may as well happen to shrug to bemusement to shock to open disinterest... and that interaction with the doctor-as-portrayed-by-david-tennant is quite meta, because people agree that david tennant as the doctor is quite attractive in a Certain Way

and thinking he's hot means that he is alloromantic/allosexual, and that is proven by the fact that the text has other characters who flirt with/kiss him, but then they also say that because he's hot = alloromantic/allosexual his interactions with others (most notably rose and martha) are less interesting, because this is limiting how the doctor feels about people in the text, without actually interacting with what the text is doing with the doctor's relationship to these things -- which, see above

whereas a bunch of aroace people are like "ten is peak aroace experience and has the interactions to prove it," because like yeah, people don't hit on peter capaldi's doctor in that way really (they're wrong), but that's just because you-the-viewer (who is wrong) don't think capaldi is hot in That way (you're wrong), and the writing isn't trying to appeal to the Idea that he's hot (and it is wrong) (but I digress) (clara's and twelve's whole thing is not read in this way specifically because of capaldi's age, which is interesting because the character of the doctor has been old by human standards the whole time, I Digress)

ten's interactions are very interesting, because for the most part the character of the doctor has been read as asexual because "alien," and not aroace so much in feel, (I mean, I think in feel, but the writing in classic!who was mainly just doing it that way because the BBC didn't want S E X on the show and it ended up becoming a big facet of the character as absorbed by show nerds who don't like things to change). ten actually interacts with romantic and sexual interest (and so does eleven, but not so longterm), and pretending that aromantic and asexual people don't do that is... inaccurate. saying that ten is more alloromantic/allosexual because of those interactions and then using the words "asexual doctor" to describe how the doctor ought to be instead is just using words incorrectly -- it sounds like when they say "asexual doctor," what they mean is that the doctor should somehow be completely unaware of/removed from these concepts, and all hints at sex or romance happen around but never in the doctor's direction. the doctor as pure, not just in their own feelings, but in the feelings other characters have towards them

basically, "my aroace doctor is not the same as your so-called "asexual" doctor"

[eldritch-ace]

Happy love loses day to all my fellow arospec and acespec whovians!

[aletterinthenameofsanity]

*grabs the mic* Quick announcement to the folk: it's important to me that you understand that in my series, the Doctor is asexual, panromantic, and genderfluid (with their own specific Time Lord interpretation of how their gender fluctuates betwen regenerations), Rory is demisexual and bisexual, and Amy is bisexual. I don't know if Rory will ever use those terms on page, but it is intrinsic to how I've described him developing feelings for the Doctor/Amy.

[astudyinchocolate]

the Doctor is always on the ace spectrum, IMO- where they fall depends on the regeneration. Hilarious to see the Doctor's surprise at this regen experiencing more attraction.

The face of someone experiencing sexual attraction for the first time

[aq2003]

i guess ten being considered the universe's hottest dude with women falling over themselves to kiss him is kinda crazy to me bc in my mind he is fundamentally a little wretched twig of a guy. like a drowned kitten or perhaps rat to me . i'm realizing that the spirit of donna noble is possessing me as i write this post