#as it is though it’s very blake/sun imo

[bestworstcase]

Hi there! I was wondering what your thoughts are on the rwby ship whiteknight? I'm not a hard-core shipper but I think they have a really interesting dynamic (they both have a kind of damsel in distress VS knight in shining armour duality in them (with jaune starting the series desperate to be the hero/Knight but constantly finding himself in position of damsel, over the series growing into that role of Knight while also learning that relying on others is okay, and weiss being both damsel and liberating Knight rolled into one). Do you think these 2 fit into an ozlem fractal? Or do their parallels make them too similar to be compatible?

in general terms, the fractal ozlem lens is about – well @rontra distilled it here more pithily than i could lmao but the thesis is that the fractures and reflections of ozlem in other characters (& their romantic arcs) is a narrative commentary on and justification for ozlem itself; so the question to ask when looking at the narrative this way is always, what does this say about ozlem?

(<- and you [general] also kind of have to understand, as a prerequisite, what’s actually going on narratively with ozlem themselves, by which i mean anyone arguing for the romantic eventuation of this or that ship on the basis of it being in some way a narrative refutation of ozlem doesn’t know what they’re fucking talking about. lol)

anyway, i’ve written before about weiss and (SIGHS HEAVILY) where jaune’s character might be headed vis-a-vis romantic arcs, with the TL;DR being i don’t think weiss will have one and jaune has a lot of weird setup in this regard that has led me to what is either the most brilliant moment of foresight i’ve ever had or completely losing the plot but i think he’s headed for some kind of enemies-to-lovers situation with gillian asturias.

in any case the– i don’t like to refer to it as ‘ship teasing’ because that presupposes that the writers put it there as fanservice and not in service of characterization, but the light narrative flirtation with weiss/jaune in v9 struck me at the time and continues to strike as akin to blake/sun in that it’s predicated on a genuine but superficial and passing attraction that is textually shown to be at odds with a deeper incompatibility and lack of sustainable romantic connection – weiss alienates and hurts jaune in precisely the same way sun does blake with his misapprehension of her motives for running away in v4. also like blake/sun, this flirtation-incompatibility is resolved via a movement toward closer friendship absent any romantic tension.

which is interesting in part because narratively the point of blake/sun is to precipitate character development blake needs to be able to return to yang. we see something similar with penny/ruby -> ruby/oscar wherein ruby’s grief for penny and guilt about not being able to protect her is entwined with the narrative setup for ruby/oscar, although there the grief/guilt complex is what creates the obstacle inhibiting ruby from wanting to/allowing herself to admit how much she’s grown close to oscar. the point being, rwby has a pattern of doing this kind of thing.

(what makes jaune weird is that this is also happening with cinder, and i don’t think the pseudo-romantic development with weiss can really be extricated from the pseudo-romantic development with cinder because there is this push-pull happening. the blatant ozlem-parallel chest stomp is immediately followed by cinder impaling weiss which incites jaune’s semblance; cinder murders penny and forces jaune’s hand by moving to kill weiss only for jaune to save weiss by screaming in anguish when he ends penny’s life; cinder shatters the symbol of jaune’s selfhood and weiss incites the mending of his self-image by casting him into the tree.)

the fractal ozlem level checks out for gillian/jaune (<- he’s a salem who is cynical and in want of true faith, she’s an ozma who chose her heart over her cause, but she’s also a salem whose father refused to put her in a tower and his experience in the ever after corrupted him into a shadow of ozpin, the julius caesar / nennius allusion implied by crocea mors and jaune’s forefathers having been mistrali soldiers vs gill allegedly being descended from the vacuan monarchy that was conquered and eradicated by centuries colonization which most recently was at mistrali hands rather directly echoes the lifetimes of enmity salem and ozma have shared; if the narrative goes this route with them they are a microcosm of the compromises and understanding that needs to be found between ozlem)

but that in itself isn’t necessarily grounds for the ship to eventuate and indeed it’s sort of the window dressing; more salient is that it makes… a lot of sense for gill to be where the tragedy of arkos and the pseudo-romantic developments with weiss/jaune and jaune/cinder are all pointing (especially if im correct in thinking gill is or will be the summer maiden!):

arkos ended in tragedy for the same reasons ozlem did the second time around – pyrrha chose to die fulfilling a (hollow, arbitrary) destiny she was coerced into accepting rather than choosing herself and her love. if jaune is slated to have a second romantic arc i’d expect it to not only not repeat this tragedy but to specifically reject the self-sacrifice that made arkos tragic; thus the romantic interest would need to be someone who would choose to do what pyrrha did not, and gillian is—demonstrably—exactly that person. she sacrificed her destiny to save herself and her brother. (she is also, er, the invincible girl…2!)

similarly the intertwined back and forth between cinder and weiss in relation to jaune, if that is precipitating a genuine romantic interest i would expect her (or him) to be someone who resembles both cinder and weiss in a way that is salient to jaune and their interactions to him. and like.

cinder:

✅ phenomenally powerful enemy ✅ aura-siphoning capabilities contrasting jaune’s semblance ✅ (possibly!) a maiden

weiss:

✅ heir to a political legacy in her kingdom of origin whose character is strongly defined by that legacy and her patriotism ✅ injured in a way that galvanizes jaune’s character development (<- in gill’s case, jax’s medical condition)

all the necessary pieces are there. and certainly it seems very likely that jaune—who has the reverse of gillian’s semblance, whose forefathers were involved in the conquest and occupation of gillian’s country!, and who traveled the ever after with two children who very likely lived during the mistrali occupation of vacuo unless that book is centuries older than i think it is��will be a central player in gillian’s character arc regardless of whether he is or isn’t a romantic interest.

comparatively—i don’t see much of any meaningful narrative foundation for weiss/jaune to eventuate romantically. his crush on her during the beacon arc is long gone (and chiefly served to facilitate his growing up for pyrrha, allowing arkos to culminate in romantic tragedy) and the v9 flirtation is, as i said, i think contraindicated in the same manner blake/sun was in v4. weiss’ friendship is of crucial importance to jaune’s character, but there is nothing obvious binding them together in the long term–

compare blake/yang: yang’s desire for adventure and novelty in service of others is a perfect complement to blake’s razor-sharp clarity of purpose and searing commitment to justice. or ren/nora: they’re bonded by shared history and a shared need to find purpose now that they have, together, exorcised the demon that destroyed their home (as it were). or ruby/oscar: both of them have expressed, in different ways but with equal longing, a desire to just explore and find freedom from the burdens of destiny thrust upon them.

the evident endgame pairings all have something that connects them – a shared goal, or two different goals that each complement the other so well that they might as well be two halves of a whole.

weiss wanted to reclaim her family legacy from her father’s corruption of it, and make things right; now that her kingdom has fallen, her motivations seem likely to shift from reclamation to rebuilding. meanwhile jaune forced himself into an ill-fitting mold in desperation to follow in the footsteps of his forefathers – again, mistrali soldiers who were likely participants in the occupation of vacuo and certainly would have been fighting on the fascist-imperial side of the great war!!

notionally jaune’s preoccupation with his family legacy dovetails with weiss’ but the way they interact with these legacies are diametrically opposed, and jaune has never actually reckoned with what his forefathers were fighting for. that the narrative exiled him in the ever after in the specific way it did – meeting two vacuan children who might well have come of age in a time when his grandfather was an occupying soldier in their country, and being so paranoid and obsessed with forcing their story to happen correctly that one of them got scared and poisoned him – along with the very explicit telegraphing that vacuo’s history of being colonized will be coming home to roost… well. jaune’s individual goals have been driving him toward a reckoning in vacuo, and he has no personal connection to atlas/mantle at all.

basically i struggle to see him leaving vacuo once all is resolved and likewise struggle to see weiss doing anything besides returning to solitas to rebuild, and that is a pretty critical incompatibility – these locations are literally not even in the same hemisphere. and i don’t think that would be the case if rwby were building up toward weiss/jaune with any seriousness tbh

[powertaco]

I do have to agree with your confession about Volume 9 being the weakest.

It tries to hard at being "Symbolic", but the fact that even the confession between Yang and Blake had to be forced with death made it painfully obvious they were taking short cuts in writing. Couldn't have it be a simple talk under the stars? Had to do that? Are words so hard to say?

Every scene was kind of awkward. While the beginning was comedic and brought charm, the volume got more and more scene's that made people question some decisions.

I mean, we all know the one where Weiss and Yang were literal inches from Ruby, but they left her face down in the dirt. We all know what part of the fan base that awkward moment was directed at, and that's just mean, taking from the volume.

They see she's not fine, but efforts to do anything to help her were minimal. The scene from the Caterpillar smoke suggests everyone's now confident and strong, but the writers didn't allow them to let Ruby lean on them. When Yang was asking Ruby "Are you fine?", you could feel that Yang was restrained, wishing to do more, for the sake of the tea drinking scene.

That may be a characteristic thing for Ruby to not lean on people, but Weiss, Yang, and Blake know sadness and know it's not good to deal with it alone. Weiss had Klein, Blake had Sun, Yang had Tai. If the plot didn't need it, Ruby wouldn't have drunk the tea if her team was allowed to talk and comfort her. But ya know, writing decision of "none of them thought Ruby needed them."

Yang didn't confront her and stop her spiraling, which as Yang herself spiraled into depression after the fall of Beacon, you'd think she'd have experience with it.

Then characters felt absent from scenes even though they were right there in multiple instances, and all you have is 6-7 to work with, are you serious?

My worst gripe is Jaune tho. You're gonna blow up at Ruby, blaming her for everything, even though you know she's breaking right now. You're a grown ass man, and you're blaming a child for a village you've been trying to protect from itself, great to know you'll never mature.

And once again, the other 3 felt absent from this tantrum, who didn't interrupt it and let him continue yelling at the top of his lungs at Ruby. Forget what Neo did, in my opinion, she drank the tea because of Jaune.

And I wouldn't hate Jaune this much this volume of they simply acknowledge it. But no. Jaune gets the hugs, the reassurance, even after Ruby's "death". Come on Miles, you know better than to show favoritism for the character you voice.

This volume made it felt there was a lack of time to script, to focus group, to reconsider choices, to see if "that's what the character would do."

I know they wanted it to be special, and meaningful, and while I don't really care much about them the fact that they basically HAD to confess to solve the issue is that they didn't get to do it on their own. I know they wanted to end the series by having Bees be canon, but there were other ways to do imo, and like I said it just made me dislike canon bees because it showed that they focused essentially on only each other until Ruby drank the tea.

A very too little too late thing, and they don't seem to acknowledge that they got too caught up in each other or anything, and much like Ruby's mental issues are just kinda brushed aside.

We lose great storyboards of other partners who aren't bees interacting.

You really don't even have to ship WR to see that they're supposed to be canon best friends, and a single scene like this is not too much to ask.

We got an entire episode basically devoted to the bees, and loooots of jaune time, but we can't get a single scene elsewhere in the series for something like this to give the girl partners a chance to, you know, interact, or be meaningful.

I know there were problems but they knew going into it that this was likely it, and had years to work on it. This volume is exceptionally rushed.

One of the biggest problems I have with the show is that it's named RWBY, and there's so much character bloat, and even among the named cast the team barely interacts outside of their partners.

Ruby, and Blake interact more in her imagination in the Emerald Forest and the first episode of IQD than they do in most of canon.

Weiss and Blake trade a few catty remarks for fun in atlas,and despite supposing to be deuteragonists JNPR is largely just Jaune.

We don't get scenes of Ruby, Jaune, Nora, and some of the others playing games. Ruby, and Ren baking as Nora awaits her feast. Blake having a book club with Ruby, Weiss, Pyrrha, and Ren, or even working out with Yang, Nora, and Pyrrha.

It makes the relationships feel kind of hollow, and now that WR apparently forgot they're partners for most of the last 3 volumes I mean it's just the bees show really, and as I said V9 showed me their worst side. If you wanted to convert me you failed miserably.

I realize that's unpopular because as long as team bees win it's perfect, but I don't care if people don't like my opinion.

The bees deserved better than a forced confession, like rwby deserved a proper non rushed ending. (also side note wasn't jax lobotomized in the novel? So why break him out?)

To bring back your point yes it is annoying they leave Ruby in the dirt. People were saying they left Ruby in the recovery position which you know great, but that's doing the writers job for them. It wouldn't have taken much for Weiss to fret, and put Ruby in the position, or Yang while they talk to the others. It's like a first draft that needed another run over.

I know in the white void Ruby's first instinct is to call for Weiss, and Yang, and yet again for the sake of making her speedrun a breakdown everything conveniently works against her.

There's a game called Evil Within. Sequel is fun, but the 1st game has a goal of getting to the lighthouse. The issue is that you're inside the mind of another person so one moment you can go from a forest with the lighthouse in the distance to a closed house, then a medieval battlefield, and so on.

Essentially there's no sense of progression, or rules you can really enforce because of the setting.

Ever After bothers me for that reason. I understand it's fantastical, but without some rules there's no sense of urgency, or weight, or stakes to whatever actions can happen.

Could they open a random door, and Salem be there sipping coffee? It's EA so why not?

Ruby's mental breakdown and suicide don't matter because it's EA.

Side note Weiss you have glyphs put one over the teacup so she can't drink it. Of course your sister could have also used one to catch you too as you fell so maybe forgetting you can do that is a family thing. Hmmm, thoughts for later.

Jaune isn't in a great headspace. I don't like that he yelled at Ruby, but I do understand him snapping after decades alone, and venting his frustration. I mean I get pissed if my cat knocks out the ethernet cable. I don't scream at it, but it didn't cost me 20 years worth of effort either.

My point being that I agree that one of Ruby's teammates, especially her partner should have stepped in at that point, and many others to protect Ruby, or each other, and they don't.

They're not a cohesive team anymore. They're Bees who care about each other, and if they can bother to remember the others then the others.

Weiss is adrift with no arc AT ALL, , and reduced to comedy. I hate it. We have seen time, and time again that Weiss will have hard talks and yet now of all times she just can't? Must be those darn ever after rules making her suddenly not talk at all.

Jaune's...idk him returning to normal is boring because the idea of him needing to meet and interact with new peers and his friends despite being older is interesting, and hey older jaune meeting older jess in the JL P2 would have been pretty neat to see.

If we ever get a V10 you can bet he'll go right back to being the same old Jaune except he might sometime say something wise and nora might mock his gray hair. Yay what a waste.

I still would have prefered Nora falling so she can learn who she is away from Ren and he from her then when she was reunited in V10 they could be ready for a relationship.

Plus Nora would be well used to wearing a happy + mask so she'd actually talk to ruby or get mad weiss or none of the others were.

I will also accept maria jumping down after Neo screaming round two bitch, and somehow getting the dagger, and turning young. This would also be acceptable and make just as much sense as anything else in Ever After. You know I have to work it in there. Bonus, she wouldn't accept Ruby acting like that, and would confront her on it.

If Maria can handle Neo then she can handle a moody Ruby.

At any rate I'm rambling but yes Ruby got a team hug, and came back basically the same as ever (for real give her a semblance upgrade or power up she's fighting what's close to a god) except she's more confident.

Neat.

I know there's no victory in strength, but there's only defeat in weakness too so I meeeeean.

Idk just me though. Prob why Vol 8 time travel or fix it fics are so common. Just an easy pathway into them.

[dustydustyrose]

To me BB and BS feels like, half of the Crwby wanted BB and half wanted BS, someone lost a bet and BB won pffffft (not saying this is actually what happened, ofc)

I'm personally not a huge fan of BB, and here's why:

- V1-3 BB reminds me of me and my best friend. In other words, I read 95% of their interactions as platonic. (TBF, growing up a lot of people thought my best friend and I were dating so LMAO take that as you will 😂)

- BB didn't become obvious to me until V5. I remember watching the scene where Yang and Blake were reunited, pausing the video, and saying "do they have feelings for each other?") it was that exact moment. But to have 3 whole seasons of (imo) 0 romantic interactions to suddenly having nothing but romantically coded interactions felt kind of jarring and forced to me

- When Blake and Sun are in Menagerie together, it felt like Crwby was using that as an opportunity to say BS was not going to happen in the most out of character way possible (Blake slapping Sun in the face. Seriously, I'm pretty sure I remember even Blake's VA saying that scene made her uncomfortable with how ooc it was). Imo that season would've been a great conclusion to BS even without that scene 😭 that scene just felt like someone was trying to prove a point

- I personally don't like how much BB depends on each other. One reason I liked both of them so much was because of how independent they were, and now it feels like they revolve around each other and can do nothing without each other (I'm of the opinion that even in romantic relationships partners should have their own stuff outside of each other, so those two being attached by the hip in everything they do just feels.... meh to me)

- The execution feels like it wasn't planned at all. Whether it was planned or not doesnt really matter as much as execution. To me, it didn't feel planned, and that's another reason why I'm not a fan of the ship

- I agree that whatever BS had going on in the past doesn't make BB less valid. It's just the way they ended BS to make BB more obvious that felt so... cringey to me 😭

I won't say that I outright dislike BB. It's just not my favorite. And yeah BB was a 4 season long slow burn, but that's still 4 out of 9 seasons to me. The way BB started is the main reason why I'm not a fan. The start (V5, imo) felt very abrupt. It wasn't there, then it was suddenly in my face 😂

Another thing I will say is that lgbtq req between when rwby first came out to now is VASTLY different. Taking that into consideration, even if BB was planned from the beginning, I understand why it would've been so subtle at the start. Imo, though, I think crwby was unsure of BB until the end of V3, but by then they'd already developed BS in a way, so V4 was them back tracking and V5 was them setting it in stone. And that is why BB feels so awkward up until V5

Also, that one comic about Yang wanting Blake to open up to her... felt weird to me PFFFFFT. Hear me out!!!!

It felt weird because the start of the comic we see Yang helping a bunch of people out and saying it's the "big sister" in her. Then she spends the rest of the comic with Blake and... yeah. To start a comic with a "big sister" mentality only to end with subtly implied romance felt WEIRD 😭

Anyway, that's all I'll say on the matter (probably). I just had thoughts i wanted to vomit into the universe. Really happy for all the BB shippers tho~ I know yall have been waiting for this for a long time ✨️💖

[kittyprincessofcats]

RWBY Volume 9 Ep 1 - A  Place of Particular Concern

I wanted to make this post before episode 2, but oh well - in my defense, I was sick. (I also haven’t watched episode 2 yet, so for me it still is “before”.)

I’ll try to be brief as well and just write down the stuff I really want to say. Don’t know if I’ll make a post like this for every episode either, depends on whether I’ll feel up for it. (Likely not, but I wanted to do it this time.)

- First things first: Aaah, RWBY is finally back! For me this is actually a first-time experience too, since I didn’t get into RWBY until Volume 8 was already almost over. (If I remember right the last few eps of Vol 8 were the first ones I actually watched “live” (or well, with a week’s delay)).

- As a whole, I’m a lot more relaxed about Volume 9 than I was about late Volume 8 (or than I am about Volume 10). Because we’re taking this detour in the Ever After (a good choice imo, since RWBY has so many characters by now that it can get a bit overwhelming), and the only named characters here are Team RWBY, Jaune, and Neo, I don’t have as much to get anxious about. My only faves here who could get hurt are Team RWBY, and since they’re the main characters I think they’ll be fine. My other faves are either not in the void (Cinder, Salem, Ilia) or already dead (Penny... don’t touch me I’m still not over it), so I think this volume is going to be comparatively easy on my nerves (now watch me eat my words as Team RWBY goes through hell...). (My little sisters’ faves are Jaune and Neo respectively, so I’ll see how they like this volume...)

- I wonder who the mysterious narrator in the beginning is. Well, we’ll find out. (But the last time we had a “mysterious narrator” she turned out to be very important, so...)

- Love how it wastes no time throwing us back into the Vol 8 ending from Ruby’s POV.

- Who’s voice is that calling “Ruby!” when she wakes up at the beach? Is that still Penny? Sounds more like Yang to me, but I’m really not sure.

- The two suns made me think of Star Wars.

- I love Little. (And I also like that Ruby being kind to a little mouse even while she’s going through a lot herself is what ends up freeing Weiss and Blake from the mice. Kindness is good and all that.)

- Interesting to know that cartoons exist on Remnant. Makes sense, though, they have TVs and all after all...

- Bit sad we didn’t get to see Weiss and Blake’s reunion. Also, is this the first time they’ve said the name “Gambol Shroud” out loud in the show?

- The way Weiss tells Blake “I’m really glad you’re okay”... Yeah, until just now she thought all of her teammates were dead. And she’s clearly still processing that Penny’s dead for real.

- Weiss cheering Blake on when she’s trying to get her weapon is adorable.

- Love how Ruby nudges her shoulder to wake Little up.

- “I can be your trusty guide” -> cut to them falling asleep. I love Little.

- “I don’t know if anyone else fell, no.” Oh, I just remembered again that none of Team RWBY know that Jaune is down here, too. They won’t look for him because they don’t know he’s here. And they might not run into him, either. So, what if they just straight up don’t meet him? I’ve even seen theories they might leave the Ever After without him since they don’t know... oh boy, I think something interesting is definitely in store for Jaune this volume.

- The Jabberwalker is terrifying and we definitely haven’t seen the last of them.

- That moment when Ruby wants to join the fight but the realizes she doesn’t have Crescent Rose anymore... yeah, based on the intro as well, I wonder if it’ll maybe take a while - maybe even the whole volume? - until Ruby gets Crescent Rose back.

- “I said I wasn’t done with you yet!” Oh... shout out to Barbara for how she voiced this line. Also, I’ve said it before: Yang is so badass. Thinks she’s dead, only has one arm, still goes afte the Jabberwalker.

- “Dammit! You weren’t supposed to be here!” The way her voice breaks here, oh gosh... Yang just wanted to protect Ruby, she was ready to sacrifice herself for Ruby, and to see now that it didn’t work as Ruby and the others still fell... let me give Yang a hug. (They might also have to talk about those self-sacrificial tendencies, because while I get the “protective big sister instinct” - you’re important too, Yang.)

- “If you thought we wouldn’t come for you, then you must have forgotten who raised me.” When I first heard this line, I thought Ruby meant Tai (and Summer) by this, but then I saw people say that she meant that Yang raised her and gosh... that’s both even sweeter and even more heartbreaking. (But also, Ruby... you didn’t actually “come for” Yang, you though she was dead and then you all fell into the void by accident. Not saying you wouldn’t have come for her if you’d known, but that’s not quite what happened.)

- I’ll be squeeling about that Bumbleby tackle-hug for the next few weeks, thanks for asking. The way Blake says “Yang” so softly, the way Yang touches her head and smiles... it’s perfect. Everything I wanted for their reunion and more.

(Also, I don’t want to get into negativity too much here, but it’s astounding how I’ve already seen the dumbest discourse ever over this scene. “Yang should have hugged Ruby instead; why would she care about someone more than her sister?” and similarly braindead takes... like WTF? Yang and Ruby literally had a really sweet sisterly moment right before this. Yang and Ruby have hugged before. Like, what kind of a braindead take is this? Are people who have siblings not allowed to also have significant others or other people they love and care about? Honestly, it’s just straight-up homophobia, let’s call it what it is. If this hug had happend between, say... Ren and Nora, after one of them thought the other was dead, literally no one would be grasping at straws to find something to complain about. No one would be calling it “ship baiting” or throwing fits. If it doesn’t bother you when it’s a man and a woman, but it does when it’s two women or two men - that’s homophobia. And a lot of the haters also seem to go down the whole “but it’s not canon” rabbithole and like... yes, it is. Just because Blake and Yang haven’t kissed or confessed their feelings out loud yet doesn’t make them not canon. They’re canonically in love, that much is explicitly clear. Deal with it or leave.)

- I like the build-up to Weiss telling everyone what happened (rule of 3 - when Blake and then later Ruby ask, she keeps saying they have to find Yang first and she’s not letting herself really process it either. But when they’re finally all together, Weiss finally allows herself to cry and tell them.

- Okay, time to let out my inner Nuts and Dolts shipper: WOW. The fact that Ruby just straight-up faints when she hears that Penny died. The fact that Weiss didn’t even finish speaking and Ruby already fainted... I’m so here for it! Look, I’m still heartbroken (and still in denial, hoping they’ll bring her back a second time), but if I have to deal with half of my ship being dead, then I at least want to see the other half have the most intense reaction possible to it. I want Ruby to grieve, I want Ruby to go through hell, I want her to just not be normal about this on any level. The intro already tells us that this is the “Ruby is depressed” volume, but I want that to be at least in large parts because of her grief for Penny. Ruby thought she’d lost Penny once, then she got her back, got even closer with her, fell in love with her, went through all of that trouble in Volume 8 to save her from the virus, only to find out she died anyways... yeah, I want Ruby to suffer about it and I’m so glad we’re getting that. (And in my perfect shipper-wish-fullfilment version I want Ruby to have some sort of “I loved her” line when talking about Penny later.)

- I like that Weiss left out Jaune’s exact role in Penny’s death and phrased it as “Jaune tried to help, but she sacrificed herself”. It’s not a lie and Weiss is being a good friend to Jaune by deciding that that part isn’t hers to tell. That being said, I want Ruby to go absolutely ballistic on Jaune when she finds out. I want her to blame Jaune, I want there to be a fight with tears and emotions and rage, I want it all. (To be clear, I’m not blaming Jaune, but I want Ruby to. Like I said, I want Ruby to not be normal about this. Let Ruby go apeshit over losing the girl she loves.)

- So wait, Ruby fainted and they just let her lie there? (Okay, to be fair, we don’t see what happend while she was out.)

- Okay, so Team RWBY currently don’t know that Jaune fell, that Salem has the relic, or how everyone in vacuo is doing. Weiss still saw Winter become the winter maiden and most people get to vacuo though, right? 

- Side-note, what about all the random citizens who fell into the void when Cinder set off that first explosion? Team RWBY knows about them - are they going to at least try and save them too, or is this supposed to be a “they’re background characters, so let’s hope the viewers have forgotten about them” thing?

- Oh, I have feelings about Yang asking Ruby if she’s alright and Ruby brushing it off to talk about Neo instead. I hope WBY will realize that Ruby’s going through it right now.

- Yay for Blake taking charge and coming up with a plan. She’s come so far.

- Yang thought she was dead... don’t touch me.

- “I think we’re in a fairytale.” Oh, lovely line to end the first episode on.

Now for the opening:

- Love the song, first of all!

- That opening shot of Jaune and Neo! Jaune still with the broken sword and tears... Yeah, he’s not going to have a good time this volume either. Likely there’s going to be a lot of wrestling with guilt over Penny. Also, as some people have pointed out, there are quite a few parallels between Jaune and Neo. They’ve both lost someone they love (Pyrrha and Roman), they’re both keeping a tragic keepsake of that person (Pyrrha’s red fabric and Roman’s hat), they both (arguably for Jaune?) want revenge for that person’s death... yeah, will be interesting to see if this volume does anything with that.

- That montage of everyone growing more confident while Ruby receeds and becomes more depressed, the part where it’s just Ruby crying, then that montage of everyone else walking and getting faster while Ruby walks behind and gets slower and slower and hangs her head... Yeah, this is “Ruby has depression” -  the volume, and I’m really looking forward to that for several reasons. First of all because I feel like Ruby is ironically one of the less developed characters on the show and I can’t wait for her to finally have the time to get that development. (This is another reason why I think it was a good call to have a smaller cast this this volume.) And secondly because I’ve been struggling with what’s likely depression and I think seeing that represented in a show I like would feel really healing.

- I would have never noticed the “no 11th hour” thing with Jaune on my own - props to all of you for picking up on that!

- Well that part with Ruby on the bridge isn’t creepy at all.

- Neo’s sitting behind a table sipping tea while wearing Roman’s hat and that’s when it hit me that she’s the mad hatter. Brilliant!

- Also, I wouldn’t have picked up on Jaune being the white rabbit (who’s always too late!) myself, but I love it. Also, this is another parallel between him and Neo and I wonder what their stories will have to do with each other this volume.

- Also interesting how we see both Ruby and Neo turning into... was her name Alyx? - well, our Alice, “the girl who fell through the world”, you know who I mean. Just like Jaune and Neo have parallels, Ruby has paralles with both of them as well (she’s also just lost the redhead she loves and might also keep a tragic keepsake of Penny’s).

Okay, one personal prediction I want to make: So far, every one of the last RWBY volumes had one character in particular stand out and steal the show for me, my “fave of the volume”, so to speak. For Volume 5 it was Ilia, for Volume 6 it was Salem, for Volume 7 it was Penny, and for Volume 8 it was Cinder. And based on the first episode and opening I think that for Volume 9 it’s going to be Ruby. That whole going through depression and mourning Penny thing... yeah, I think Ruby is who I’ll feel for the most here and I’m ready for it. Make this her volume, she deserves it. (I definitely also hope for some amazing Bumbleby moments, tough.)

I am apparently incapable of writing “short” posts.

[astralwukong]

that's fair and yeah i partially agree. the apathy episode should have unlocked something more, absolutely. not a confession imo but something...tender? that would eased them into romance.

nonetheless to me this missing moment (yang and blake talking about V3 aftermath) weights heavily on their development, mostly because it plays into this sometimes weird approach that rwby writers have had to character dynamics, were things don't always get talked through, just nodded to. bees are the most developed dynamic of the show and this means that they're also the biggest victims of this way of writing. another good example is the fight with adam 2. they kill a man and neither of them feels like breaking down about it eventually? despite how bad adam is and how much his disappearence must have been a relief to blake particularely. im not saying she should be crying about it because trauma response is different for everyone, but i was definitely expecting more talk from them than just "we did what we had to do". on this one i may be alone so maybe its just me, but as for the blake leaving conversation i still think it was so much more important and should have been given its space. also because talking about blake leaving would have also opened to the adam conversation and given yang on-screen closure on the 5 Ws that she has had for entire volumes (V4-V5), so its like, an overally very needed and awaited moment (every newbie watching expects it for a reason).

i feel like the writers all too often chose to leave things unsaid or only mentioned instead of the good old long conversations that i liked so much about rwby. to me obviously something must have changed since V7 because rwby became extremely "plot-based" in that the characters no longer drag the plot, its the plot that moves the characters, leaving no space for casual conversation lasting longer than a minute. All the characters talk about since V7 is plot-related things, and rarely something else. This is my overall criticism to later rwby, but its so much more prominent when we talk about bees. Some people say they feel underdeveloped, i fear this has to do with the lack of propention by RT to investigate in depth their "falling in love arc" V6-V9 and as usual they compensated with blushes and flirting to get the point across....I'm afraid that doesn't work very well with bees though. It's not early-blcksn, a souless ship (sorry blcksn) that only needed flirting and sun trying hard to be considered realistic, bees are held to a much higher standard, not just by the haters but by the fans too. In this sense i think bees deserved so much more from V7-V8, but its clear that plot and budget are to blame for the lack of effort in that direction.

Like idk to me its crazy that in V8 blake and yang had two whole important moments (not a lot) and they didn't conversate once in between them. i'll say it again casual blushing and silent flirting can't be pretty much the only thing happening between them in the two volumes leading to a confession....as much as i loved these moments.....

Sorry i got off topic but i really think this exposes my general problem with late-RWBY's style of writing. the change in management to Viz Media (only kerry is still involved afaik) can certainly give new life to the writing...or ruin it for good 😅

fellow bumbleby shippers i have a question. what is your own criticism to the ship? like, things you didn't like or you would have done different or added or removed ecc. including the interplay with blcksn and/or adam, not just blake and yang's relationship alone.

[itsclydebitches]

Do you think about how RWBY is very abstinent from victimising it's male cast in any serious way? In V4 Blake saves Sun, but it's presented as funny (haha girl carrying guy haha), Ruby unintentionally saves Jaune before passing out in V5, every time Pyrrha saves Jaune it's either intentionally (Forest in V1) or evocatively humorous (shoving Jaune into a locker). 1/3

I think that feeling stems from a combination of three things:

1. There are, on the whole, a lot more women in RWBY than men, and therefore there are more opportunities for the girls to go through such challenges. This seems a particularly important thing to keep in mind given that our title team is all girls and Writing 101 dictates that the protagonists undergo the most trials, development, and growth. Arcs like Yang losing her arm are expected given that she's a character whose name/color association helps make up the acronym of our show and spending too much time with the B Team (whether that's with a guy like Jaune or a girl like Nora) is one of the big criticisms we've encountered over the years. RWBY is meant to be the story of four girls and their primarily women-led allies/antagonists and though RWBY is undoubtedly failing to achieve that in many respects, the foundation is still in place, leading to an excess of women overcoming such challenges (or not, given the deaths we've had). More women characters = more opportunities in general = more chances for those opportunities to be taken seriously.

2. I think it's significant that Jaune and Sun both function as comic relief. Jaune a little more-so than Sun, but both of them were introduced in a lighthearted manner (Vomit Boy/fly-by wink), both are characterized as being somewhat inept (Jaune in combat/Sun with social situations), and they each work to emotionally uplift their prospective love interests (Pyrrha/Blake). I'd even include Neptune in this trend, given his status as suave funny guy; Sun's buddy who shares most core personality traits except he's the "cooler" of the two. So you wind up with moments like his hydrophobia being treated as a gag not necessarily because RWBY believes that topic is automatically humorous, or because men's suffering is humorous, but because Neptune is meant to be humorous. Also, it's notable that many such gags (not all, but many) exist during a time in RWBY's run when most Serious Subjects were given a lighthearted twist because that's just the kind of show it was. To me, it feels less like the men of RWBY never suffer serious victim-hood (more on that in a sec) and more that these specific men don't because they're meant to make the audience and/or the other characters laugh a lot of the time. And, excluding Neptune, they also happen to be two of the more prominent male characters in the show, producing a skewed idea of how "all" the men's stories go. Out of our primary (second gen) cast we've got six women and four men: Jaune, Sun, Oscar (who you've already mentioned as an exception)... and Ren, who I'd argue does function as a victim for much of Volume 4. It's just that his victim-hood is primarily emotional and tied to his past, rather than characterized through a physical injury he's suffering in the present. Yang is dealing with the current loss of her arm; Ren is dealing with the past loss of his father and village.

3. Finally, #3 is the most important point imo. I'd argue that RWBY has NUMEROUS moments of men functioning as serious victims... but, uh, the show doesn't recognize it as serious victim-hood. It exists! But RWBY isn't interested in acknowledging that in a way that tugs at the audience's heart-strings. Some notable (and not at all original) examples include:

The reveal that Adam has a SDC brand on his face. I'll reiterate here that any non-show canon explanations about it being an accident/the result of an unrelated fight don't erase the horrifying implications here. Adam has kept his face covered since the Black trailer and then we finally see that he's branded by the racist family he's been fighting against. That's a LOT that the story never bothers to unpack.

The characterization of Ozpin as a domestic abuse victim and (though I couldn't easily snag a picture from google) his visceral death at Salem's hands via magical fire.

Ozpin (and Oscar) reliving their trauma and then being attacked physically and emotionally by their allies.

Oscar (and Ozpin) suffering through Salem's torture, which includes the most 'realistic' injuries we've seen in RWBY to date. When a show usually avoids blood entirely, or depicts it in a stylized manner (Yang's arm + Clover's death), showing a bruised, cut, and burned character hits a lot harder by default, especially when they're a kid.

Ironwood sacrificing his arm to take out Watts (which in many respects is a direct parallel to Yang's loss).

Ironwood's emotional struggle as he grapples with secrets, betrayals, the whole shebang.

Qrow's drinking changing from a comedic character quirk to a debilitating addiction that, in time, begins to endanger him and others.

Qrow getting poisoned in his fight against Tyrian and spending the next couple of episodes totally out of commission, very nearly dying.

Whitley functioning as a third abuse victim of Jacques'/neglected child of Willow's.

The common thread among most of these examples is that a) they're adults (or, in Oscar's case, a kid who is seen as an adult via an unexplained merge + the characters' belief that Ozpin may secretly be in control) and thus the show is inclined to shrug off their suffering in a way it's not for the kids. The exception here is obviously Whitley, but given that he's such a minor character compared to the others, he's kind of following his own set of rules. This "kids rule, adults drool" approach is admittedly only a problem in the later volumes, but given that it's only in the later volumes that the show grew serious enough to tackle any nuanced examination of victim-hood... yeah. By the time Qrow's drinking is treated seriously, for example, Qrow is also characterized as an outdated, uninspired remnant (ha) of the past whose opinion must be violently rejected. The show isn't interested in sympathetically unpacking his struggles, only in giving Ruby a reason to fully step into the role as leader of the group. If you were to show me any of these screenshots on their own, devoid of context, I would say that this is ABSOLUTELY a show treating such suffering seriously, because the animation/cinematography is already doing that work. However, we know that RWBY's plot and characterization don't follow up on that emotion. It's like the audience gets to see one version of events (the clearly traumatized men often begging for help) whereas the characters act as if they're seeing something entirely different (manipulative road blocks who must be ignored/threatened/defeated) and in the end, imagery can't stand up to Ruby's speeches about the supposed truth of a situation, or the inevitable demise/"redemption" of a character. We see the suffering, but the show doesn't acknowledge it in the same way it does for the women.

Additionally, b) All these characters were, at one point in time and to various extents, positioned as antagonists, even outright villains. Ozpin's a manipulative liar. Oscar's just a sham; Ozpin's puppet. Qrow is a dangerous pessimist trying to prevent their Totally Awesome Theft Plan. Adam morphed into a stalker (more personal and, therefore, more reviled than a freedom fighter willing to use lethal force) out to kill Blake and Yang for, it's implied, daring to love each other. Ironwood, of course, goes off the deep end and starts shooting people. This is where I think that yeah, there is a significant difference in how RWBY approaches the men in the story vs. the women, one that has nothing to do with RWBY's past tone, characters' roles in the story (comic relief), or what the women to men ratio is overall. There's something to be said for a story not approaching an antagonist's victimization in the same way it does a heroes' -- that's to be expected in most stories -- but as you point out, anon, RWBY wants us to sit with Cinder's torture and cheer at her escape. It wants us to read very deeply into a single line of Emerald's so that when the heroes accept her into their ranks in under an hour, we can justify that based on a tiny moment from five Volumes ago. The show even wants us to question if the woman hell-bent on destroying the entire world is really the one at fault here. Surely the presumed male Gods are truly responsible for every one of her choices. Or perhaps it's the husband who just didn't love her enough...

To be clear, I do think these are all legitimate questions/arguments (my slight, sarcastic tone aside). It's 100% understandable -- expected, even -- for the audience to feel for a horrifically abused teen, a young woman who got in too deep, and another whose unimaginable, divine punishment in no way fits her mortal mistakes. However, the point here is not to ask, "Is it okay to sympathize with villains?" but rather to ask, "Does RWBY encourage us to sympathize with villains and the men who function as flawed heroes?" And the answer is a resounding "No." The sympathy exists for viewers like me who prefer to read RWBY based on what's actually on screen, not how the narrative tries to direct my emotions, but that's not the same as the story drawing attention to those hardships, letting the characters work through them, and giving them at least equal weight as those villains who "don't deserve" the sympathy in the first place. Ren is screamed at and dismissed for his doubts. Qrow is denied emotional access to the group until he (magically) fixes his addiction. Ozpin's abuse goes unacknowledged, despite two characters having similar experiences. The origin of Adam's brand remains a mystery because the show thought it more important to kill him off than unpack that. Oscar's torture exists as a way to shock the audience, not a trauma he must spend time working through. The show spends Volumes encouraging us to celebrate Ozpin's horrific treatment post-secrets. The idea that Weiss threatening her brother and that he's an equal victim of abuse as her and Winter isn't even on the show's radar. These things simply happen to the men in RWBY and often when critics say, "Hey, that was pretty fucked up. Why aren't we unpacking that and/or acknowledging how badly our other heroes handled that situation? Why aren't the flawed, heroic men given the same, or even more sympathy than the villainous women?" the response from show and fellow fans alike is to shut that interpretation down because it's not an interpretation RWBY prizes.

These are not the victims you're looking for.

[aspoonofsugar]

I wish unicorn of war would just disappear from youtube that person (cant recall their gender) with the ammount of stupid points they bring up and like recently comming on a video called how rwby fails lgbt about a show thats not over yet (and the video having blake and yang a couple that techiqually isn't together yet wonder if they are still salty over clover dying (all because a writer shipped him and qrow I didn't even know that was a ship cause to me it seemed oh clover is helping qrow

Hello anon,

I am sorry, but I do not watch their videos hence I can't comment on them. That said, I would like to use your ask to share my 2 cents on the whole LGTBQ+ representation issue, not just in RWBY, but in general.

I think it is important to realize that offering representation and exploring themes linked to LGTBQ+ or gender is not the same thing. It is the same for all important social issues. A story where there is racism does not necessary set itself up to explore the issue deeply or thematically. A series with disabled characters might not be interested on truly reflecting on disability. In short, just because there is rep it does not mean the topic is going to be at the centre of a story.

That said, rep is still extremely important to normalize some phenomenons (the existence of queer people and their right to have happy relationship, what living with a disability means, etc.). The more rep there is, the best it is. Obviously there can be some rep that won't meet everyone's taste and maybe in some cases it might be offensive to some and can be criticized. However, with the exception of very rare cases, every rep is on some measure positive and deciding that it is not woke enough for your standards is literally helping no-one.

Now, RWBY has some decent rep imo. Blake and Yang are main characters and they are clearly ending up together. The series also has minor characters that are confirmed queer like Ilia, Coco, May, Sofron,Terra, Nolan and Scarlet. There is absolutely nothing bad in this.

You want more? That is a fair wish, but not all series are gonna have as much queerness as you want. That is a fact. Some authors will be more interested in representing this kind of characters and in exploring these themes. Others will not.

You don't like Bumbleby as a ship? Fine, it does not change it is 2 main girls ending up together in a Young Adult American series that debuted in 2013. Like, I am not sure, but I think Korrasami happened in 2015... imo remembering RWBY has been planned in its major bits (which I am fairly sure involves the endgame ships) not today, but 10 years ago is good food for thought.

Now, Bumbleby's execution is not perfect (I really think they should have handled Sun better), but it is not even remotely as out of the blue or as badly written as some people claim. Imo it is something clearly decided since early on:

Black the beast descends from shadows. Yellow beauty burns gold.

Even dismissing Red Like Roses, volume 2 and 3 still clealry code Blake and Yang romantically.

Yang and not Sun is the one who convinces Blake to go to the dance:

Yang: And if you feel like coming out tomorrow, I'll save you a dance.

So, symbolically she is the one who brings Blake to the ball:

Sun: Sooo, does this mean we're going... together?

Blake: Technically, though my first dance is spoken for.

Notice that Blake and Yang wear complementary outfits (black and white, ying and yang), while Black Sun have both black clothes.

Not only that, though:

Blake: I had someone very dear to me change. It wasn't in an instant, it was gradual - little choices that began to pile up. He told me not to worry. At first they were accidents, then it was self-defense. Before long, even I began to think he was right. This is all just... very familiar. But you're not him. And you've never done anything like this before. So... I want to trust you. I will trust you. But first, I need you to look me in the eyes and tell me that he attacked you. I need you to promise me that you regret having to do what you did.

Adam: And as I set out upon this world and deliver the justice mankind so greatly deserves, I will make it my mission to destroy everything you love.

Yang: Blake! Where are you!?

Adam: Starting with her.

Yang is directly compared to Adam aka Blake's previous partner and lover and she is Adam's target the moment he is trying to hurt Blake. Like, crazy ex-boyfriend targets new love interest is a recurring trope. Not to count Yang losing her arm is juxtaposed to Pyrrha screaming Jaune's name while he is being attacked by Cinder. Arkos is clearly romantic and the 2 scenes happening frame beside frame is a way to equate the 2 relationships.

In short, structurally there is little doubt. Bumbleby is endgame and it is set up very very early on in the story. Criticizing the ship because it has yet to happen makes little sense to me. How many straight ships are confirmed at the end of a story? Why should they have the chance to crown the characters' arcs at the very end, but queer ones have to be confirmed early on to prove they are somehow good enough?

What is more, even if you somehow decide to follow this standard... so far only Bumbleby and Renora are clearly confirmed as endgame ships. Personally, I think all the major characters will end up in a ship by the end. Even if this were not the case, I am still fairly sure Renora and Bumbleby are not gonna be the only 2 ships. And yet, they are the ones who have undergone the most development and are clearly the closest to be confirmed as canon.

In short, for the standard of the series... Bumbleby is actually confirmed pretty early on imo :''')

Anyway, thank you for the ask anon and have a nice day!

[h4lcyonism]

SO I am most of the way through volume 4 (I believe I’ve seen 9 episodes) and I have *thoughts.*

This may be my favorite volume so far it’s not perfect or anything but I think splitting the main 4 up was a good choice for character development. I also think the writers are getting more used to writing each main girl so their personalities are getting more consistent which is cool.

Weiss and Yang’s arcs are probably my favorites I thought Ruby and Yang’s dad was going to be boring after volume 3 but his relationship with Yang is so sweet and I like that the show is actually showing Yang’s trauma from…you know. I’m not sure they spent quite as much time on it as I would have liked but it’s still great. Weiss’s arc was pretty expected, it didn’t surprise me at all, but it’s super satisfying (like any character who you know is gonna get redeemed when they finally do) and I love watching her grow although I would very much like to punch her dad.

Blake’s arc is interesting…I like her dynamic with Sun when she’s not slapping him (plus he’s hilarious.) Who the heck is Ilya though? (Did I spell that right?) I’m intrigued and Blake’s parents deserve everything. I like this arc my one problem is that I feel like at the moment Blake’s only real character trait is running away and I think she could be fleshed out a *little* more.

OH THAT ONE SCENE WITH JAUNE AND PYRRHA’S VIDEO MADE ME CRY I miss Pyrrha so much she was my favorite character and then she DIED!

I like the setup of Ruby’s arc my main problem with it is that Ruby as a character isn’t my favorite. She’s certainly likeable but I feel like her main trait is “protagonist.” The rest of the group is great though, although I would have liked more time dealing with Jaune’s grief (really I just wish this volume were longer because it’s doing so much good stuff!)

I realized that I’m complaining a lot but I really love this volume.

Qrow may be my new favorite character…I just learned about his semblance and ouch that’s sad (kind of reminds me of Eda.) He has SUCH a specific vibe and I can’t describe it but I love it so much also his relationship with Ruby is everything.

BUT NOW HE MIGHT DIE I’M SCARED HE’S GOING TO DIE AND THEN TWO OF MY FAVORITE CHARACTERS WILL BE DEAD AND THAT WOULD SUCK!!!!!!!!!

Okay that’s it those are nine episodes worth of pent up thoughts I’m sorry for making you read all of that!

i’m glad you like volume 4 so far!!

i’m usually not a fan of splitting characters up but the show did this volume really well in that case and in a lot of ways it was necessary for the girls’s growth as individuals. they’ve had three volumes to build up the characters, so volume 4 is definitely when you start to see them get fleshed out.

i’m really glad they took volume 4 to really showcase yang’s struggles with adjusting to only having one arm and dealing with ptsd, and weiss’s arc is predictable but enjoyable to see nonetheless. and the jacques hatred will only grow the more of the show you watch, so that doesn’t change.

ilia amitola is the light of my life and one of my absolute favorite characters in the show. i don’t wanna spoil anything about her, but you’ll love her. and volume 5 fleshes blake’s character out more than volume 4 does imo, so that does get better.

same with ruby, in the later volumes you definitely start to see more of ruby’s struggles and her more pessimistic and hopeless side, so to speak. and again, without spoiling anything… i think we’re gonna come back to jaune’s grief in this year’s upcoming volume, but i’ll wait to discuss that until you’re all caught up lol.

qrow and eda have A LOT in common and his relationship with ruby is a lot like eda’s with luz, that’s all i’ll say on that right now……….

the show does really only go up from here and volume 4/5 are put together like continuous volumes, so a lot of the build-up and character development runs into volume 5 too, and personally, volume 5 has a lot of my favorite moments, so there’s a lot to look forward to!!

(also i feel like i hammer in “soon!!!!” with a lot of stuff, but i promise that it all actually DOES happen. 😭 the next four volumes are way more packed than the four you’ve already seen.)

[dragynkeep]

Twiins: "Respect ALL Asians!!!"

Also Twiins: "But not dark-skinned Asians!!!"

~

Twiins: "Stop erasing light-skinned Asians!!!"

Also Twiins: "Yang Xiao Long, Taiyang Xiao Long, and Sun Wukong are NOT Asians! Their skin is too light!"

~

*Blake is not Asian Coded. She was designed with European features and clothes, an English first name and an Italian last name, and was based on a French fairy tale - meanwhile her background was openly based on specifically the African-American background and civil rights, and they did it TERRIBLY but still, so arguably Blake is way more "black-coded" than anything else. Twiins is probably just going REALLY HARD on denying it so that she can continue to plug her ears about Adam after the tone-deaf white-ass stuff she said about him.

*Meanwhile, Sun was one of the darkest-skinned characters within the first three seasons, and his skin was only lightened later (which is racist) and his character allusion that he SHARES HIS NAME WITH is from one of the most famous works in Chinese literature, and his weapon is based on that exact Chinese character's weapon. He IS Chinese coded, it's just that Rooster Teeth are so racist that they didn't handle it respectfully from the start and then tried to retcon it out of him later. To a much lesser extent, Taiyang and Yang are also at the very least "Asian-Coded," because of their names and because one of Yang's character allusions is a character in Japanese Anime, WHO WAS HIMSELF BASED ON THE ORIGINAL SUN WUKONG FROM CHINESE LITERATURE. Admittedly, I do not consider Yang and Taiyang to be actual Asian representation in canon (though I too always attempt to respectfully portray them as Chinese and half-Chinese in redesigns of my own) BUT THEY'RE MUCH CLOSER THAN BLAKE IS!!!

*The only "Asian Coding" given to Blake is that she has an inaccurate katana and inaccurate pajamas. So why is it that people look at Adam's Katana and call it "cultural appropriation of Blake's culture" but then they point to Blake's katana as the ONLY PROOF that she's "part of that culture?" If having a katana is appropriation for Adam, it's appropriation for Blake, because THEY HAVE THE EXACT SAME FEATURES, CLOTHING DESIGN ELEMENTS, AND FAIRY TALE.

*One could presumably argue "But Blake's Parents are Asian!!!" And to that I say a) Blake's parents were kind of a retcon in the first place lol. b) Blake's parents also have an unfortunately high amount of European features in their designs (since they had to make them look like Blake) and the only thing that "codes" them as Asian are their clothes, names and house, so that's sus. c) Blake's parents are based on Indian-Asian culture, not Japanese, so if we're just going by aesthetics alone, they do not have the same culture as their daughter for some reason, and I'm counting that as both "Blake's CLEAR English/French/Italian design" AND as "The three or four instances in which she was drawn to hold or wear a vaguely Japanese item." AND FINALLY d) - racism CW for the rest of this paragraph - Ghira was based on the fictional character Bagheera, from the racist novel "Jungle Book," which appropriated South-Asian culture and was written by a white colonialist - not ONLY a white colonialist, but a pro-war, pro-invasion, pro-colonialism white man who was famous for writing the horrifically racist poem "White Man's Burden" in which he literally paints non-white cultures as subhuman devilish half-animals and laments how "sad" it is that White people "aren't shown any gratitude" for "rescuing" such "inferior" people from themselves. imo that fact makes Ghira's entire character more racist than if he'd just been white like his daughter, rather than "good rep," and the entire concept should be thrown away.

*If having a katana and Japanese-inspired clothing is the ONLY THING that it takes to call Blake "Asian-Coded," THEN RAVEN BRANWEN IS ALSO "ASIAN-CODED" (even though she also is given European features and names and her character allusion is partly from Welsh mythology and party from Norse) WHICH MEANS THAT YANG HAS TWO "ASIAN-CODED" PARENTS JUST LIKE BLAKE!!!

*I was under the impression that Twiins' original statement was something along the lines of "it's okay to re-design fictional characters to reflect a more diverse background, but the problem is that it's ONLY Blake who gets this treatment, when she's the ONLY Asian-Coded character among the main four." BUT NOW that people are informing her "Actually, two of the other four characters have MORE Asian-coding than Blake does, and they frequently have that background represented in redesigns," she's changing the discussion. The points she made were proven wrong: "Blake is the only Asian-coded character," "Blake is the only character who is drawn as non-white by fans." SO NOW she's trying to DISPROVE THAT YANG AND SUN WERE ASIAN-CODED (so that she can pretend she was correct in saying Blake was the only one) and she's IGNORING THAT YANG AND RUBY ARE DRAWN AS HALF-CHINESE IN REDESIGNS (so that she can pretend she was correct in saying Blake is the only one.)

*And yes, she is also COMPLETELY ignoring the numerous works of art which depict Blake as a dark-skinned Asian character or an otherwise non-white character.

Twiins seems to have this weird disconnect, where she does not understand that her experiences are not universal. She constantly just announces things that "EVERYBODY" "ALWAYS" "ONLY" does, with absolutely no regard or consideration for people who don't do that?? It's so weird. She did that with her Adam video, and now she's doing it about Blake, too. And then when she gets called out for being dead wrong, she gets so fucking fragile and defensive, and she DOUBLES DOWN ON BEING WRONG because she refuses to admit it's even an option - and thus ends up being super bigoted as a bonus. :/

It really sucks because I did like her before she started showing this side of herself. Funny how often the things she says go right in line with the words of people she condemns though lol like where's the self-reflection???

Thank you for putting it all out so I didn't have to do so, anon.

I personally think that even Yang is shit as Asian rep, and after the whitewashed Sun debate, we really are running low on actually good Asian characters in this show.

BUT, if Twiins is adamant that Blake is "Asian-coded" (which is a term I absolutely hate, it's like calling Weiss "European-coded", it sounds dumb as fuck), then Yang, Sun and Taiyang absolutely count as Asian-coded too, which just blows her whole argument out of the water.

If they are Asian too, then Blake isn't the only one having her skin darkened in redesigns, because Yang and Ruby has that done to them just as much. But Twiins can't accept being wrong, so she'll move the goalposts and scream at the fans who point that out.

The amount of cognitive dissonance in this whole thing is wild, because she holds herself as the Mighty Whitey protecting the poor Asians, but when actual Asian people tell her she's wrong and being racist, she'll immediately start being racist towards them. Make it make sense.

[kitkatopinions]

The sad thing is that Blake's most healthiest option romance wise is someone who gives her space and willing to let her go. Sun fits this description perfectly. But they went with a codependent toxic relationship partially held together by guilt in which one side is clearly submissive and the other too worried and insecure.

Yeah, tbh, the send off to Sun at the start of volume six made me think they would pick up the relationship where it left off eventually for a couple different reasons, but one of them was this reason.

I want to preface this post by saying that A. I don’t really like Bumblebee and I don’t need a reason to dislike it even though I have reason to dislike it, B. I’ve shipped BlackSun from Sun’s first introduction, and C. also I’m coming at this as someone who has been in a co-dependent relationship, so all three of those things means I’m naturally a little biased. I’m not pretending this is all a super objective, impersonal interpretation. This is just me talking honestly about my thoughts towards a ship I don’t like. Bees, I’m sorry if this shows up in your tags, Tumblr is being screwy and I’m not trying to rain on anyone else’s posts. I’m using filterables and putting this under a keep reading to try and make it easier for Bumblebee fans to not see this.

I had - when I saw season six’s opening ep - given the show mad props for writing a romance driven relationship where the partners didn’t have to stay together all the time to still care about each other and be secure. It felt like the perfect move to me to get some distance between their characters while firmly establishing that Sun had never done the things he’d done ‘to win the girl,’ and didn’t consider himself ‘letting Blake go.’ Sun not only being willing to spend this time away from Blake, but to not even need it really said, and to have his own stuff he needed to do as well... All of that felt like a healthy, independent relationship. I don’t mean to get personal on main, but I’ve been in a relationship where I felt partially responsible for my partner’s happiness and he tried to do things like keep me from my friends or guilt me into things. I ignored the red flags because our relationship was important to me, but it made me feel pretty unhappy because I was always worried that if I didn’t do the things he wanted, he would get upset and over-react, and put himself down until I built him back up, and if we didn’t spend the majority of our time together, he would start talking about feeling like I didn’t really care that much about him and how lonely he felt. This was really exhausting to me, especially since I’m an introvert.

Sun always seemed like such a good partner for Blake because he was always so self-possessed, so confident in who he was already, independent and happy and accepting of Blake’s independence. Sun was always there for Blake, but he also was the one usually pushing her towards interacting with others too, they were able to go do separate things and even go on completely different missions with confidence and without drama. For a character who had previously been in a destructive, possessive, controlling, abusive relationship, it had seemed like a scene that clearly established Blake and Sun’s relationship as one where Sun wasn’t expecting Blake to stay with him all the time, respected her goals and her independence, and had his own life and his own friends too. I had kind of just assumed that the choice to have Sun leave the group and go to Vacuo was to further their relationship. Upon rewatching the scene later now that I know that the writers were already starting to try to implement Bumbleby, I can see how the show writers might’ve been intending that scene to be an amiable goodbye where Sun confirms to Neptune that they aren’t actually an item with his ‘it was never about that.’ But I just have to shake my head, because I was giving the writers credit for something they didn’t do.

Instead, they were trying to tie off the relationship between Sun and Blake by having him leave, not cementing Blake’s independence and Sun’s encouragement of that (and they tied it off badly imo because Blake freakin’ kissed the boy lol.) And once they had Sun leave, they started setting Blake up with Yang. I want to clarify that there’s nothing wrong with the writers deciding to go with Blake x Yang, and the ship itself was not a totally baseless one. I’m personally disappointed that one of my favorite RWBY ships isn’t going to be endgame, and I personally don’t like the idea of Blake and Yang as a couple. But my problem isn’t really with the ship itself, it’s with how the show writers have chosen to write the ship in execution.

Getting past the queerbaitery nature of Bumblebee as a ship, the choices surrounding Blake and Yang seem faulty on both sides (which I also think is important to remember. I’ve seen loads of people recognizing that Bumblebee as written in the show is destructive to Blake, but I’ve seen much fewer people talk about how it’s not the best for Yang too.)

Let’s start from the fact that Blake is an abuse victim. She was previously in a relationship with Adam and talks about his destructive and violent behavior. Blake has a really hard time trusting people because of how Adam had acted. He was explosive, manipulative, and he got angry at and hurt Blake specifically for leaving him. The last thing Blake would need is a relationship where she feels personally responsible for the stability of another person. The last thing she needs is to be pressured into staying with someone. The last thing she needs is to be expected to be with that person without the option of ever working with others. The last thing she needs is to be in a relationship where she can’t be apart from someone even temporarily without that person getting anxious and insecure or without having to feel guilty and like she did something wrong.

And yet the show has her in a relationship with someone that has abandonment issues. The show has her promise to stay with Yang in a moment of huge trauma, Blake crying out a desperate denial to the accusations of the abusive ex who had made her life hell, after he tried to again separate her from anyone she loved and she was forced to kill someone she had once deeply cared about. It was also a really weird choice of the writers to have the characters respond to a question over if they’d ever thought about working with other partners with dismissive and cold behavior as if the very idea was somehow wrong (especially since Yang spent quite a bit of time pre-volume six working with Weiss and Blake spent so much of her time working with Sun.) And the writers chose to frame Blake and Yang leaving on temporary separate missions in volume eight to result in insecurity and anxiety from Yang and guilt for Blake. On top of that, Yang is a person with a strong temper and aggressive tendencies. Although she seemed to be trying to work through those problems in seasons four and five, Yang backslid and seems just as controlled by her anger and her insecurities as her volume 2 self now, who had lashed out at Blake and angrily pushed her for not listening in ‘burning the candle.’

As for Yang, she lost her mom when she was very young (Ruby was a toddler,) and her dad temporarily shut down after that. She soon found out her biological mom had left her when she was a baby and spent her whole life wondering why while her uncle spent that time flitting in and out of her life and taking on dangerous missions - the same types of missions that had killed the woman who had raised Yang for the first part of her life. Yang has deep seeded fears of being abandoned and losing her loved ones, and she also has a history of trying to take care of and support the people around her even at her own personal expense. While Yang’s more selfless moments in season five - like giving up her dream of getting answers from Raven to follow and protect Ruby even when she clearly wasn’t wholly healed from her trauma - are admirable, what Yang absolutely doesn’t need in a partner is someone who she feels like she has to protect and save and sacrifice for. What Yang absolutely doesn’t need in a partner is someone she feels like she can’t rely on to be there for her. What she doesn’t need in a partner is someone who can’t give her stability or struggles to trust her. What she doesn’t need in a partner is someone who won’t call her out when she goes a little too far. And yet the writers chose to put Yang with someone who runs on the regular, the only member of their team who thought Yang might be lying about Mercury, someone who needs time and distance when Yang clearly needs someone who is consistent and present. And then the writers made it so that Yang and Blake spend very little time with anyone else. The writers made it so that they can’t be apart without guilt and anxieties.

And you guys, Blake in seasons 6-8 feels so needy. She’s consistently in need of saving, consistently doesn’t stand for herself, seems like she needs a lot of reassurance in her relationship, she’s consistently waiting for other people to make moves, etc. Even when Blake convinces Yang to divulge top secret information to Robyn, when Ironwood confronts them about it, Blake backs up and leaves Yang to explain their actions. In the early seasons, it feels like Yang cares more about their friendship than Blake does and that she’s putting in more effort, which don’t get me wrong, makes total sense since Blake had just gotten out of an abusive relationship and Yang’s clear anger problems (and her using a laser pointer to try and force Blake to talk to her,) might’ve made Blake hesitant to get close to or open up to Yang. But while it no longer feels like Yang cares more, it still feels like Yang puts in more work. Yang is constantly reassuring, protecting, comforting, and stepping up for Blake, while Blake is so passive and acts so dependent that I personally can’t help but feel like Yang must be exhausted. Yang needs stability and reassurance too, Yang needs a partner she can talk to and rely on to be there. When the writers did write Blake as trying to comfort and take care of Yang, it was way too much and had undertones of ableism. And I know, I know they had this ‘we’re taking care of each other’ moment when they were fighting Adam, but that’s just what we were told for one scene, and not what we’ve actually seen in their relationship.

The worst thing is that it didn’t need to be that way. Bumbleby could’ve been a really good ship that built on their foundation. Blake used to be an independent, brave, strong, active character. Blake stood up for herself to Weiss, told Ozpin to his face that he needed to do more for the Faunus, used to have a great, creative fighting style, used to be this sassy girl who’d banter with Sun and with Yang and when she did start opening up to Yang, it was a great way to start evolving their characters to be a strong relationship. In V3 when Blake admitted that she had doubts about Yang due to her past experiences with Adam, but opened herself up and decided to trust Yang anyway when Yang looked her in the eyes and told her sincerely exactly what had happened... That was so great and it really showed off the dynamic the two of them were starting to adapt. CRWBY might’ve immediately separated the two, but A. Seasons four and most of season five had great set up for them to work through their problems and then continue to grow that great dynamic we started seeing in the first three seasons. And B. their respective arcs continued their growth as characters even apart from each other. While I wish that RWBY had let the two work some of this out together, the growth that we were getting did make them more suited for each other. I’ll always ship BlackSun. But Yang getting a hold on her emotions, maturing, starting to work through her abandonment issues, and displaying just what a caring, honest person she was, at the same time that Blake was working through her past and her fears, learning to let people in, strengthening her resolve, and coming into her own as a leader... Come on, those two characters could’ve easily developed a good, healthy, strong, independent relationship and I’m legitimately sad that’s not what we got, especially since we sacrificed so much of Blake’s personality to get a worse ship.

I don’t even know what to say about it, tbh. Idk what else the writers expected us to think with how they wrote things. I’ve heard before that there was probably a cut scene in volume eight that included Yang and Blake fighting (which would then justify Yang and Blake’s reactions when they reunited,) and I do believe that, but the writers chose not to include it, and that made them look worse as a couple. Just like they chose not to include a scene where Blake and Yang work through the problem of Blake having left Yang without a word of explanation at the end of Volume 3. And they didn’t include a scene where Blake explains herself and Yang realizes that maybe she was being a little shortsighted about the trauma Blake had also gone through. And they didn’t include a scene where Blake actually learned that she didn’t have to protect or take care of Yang in volume six. And they haven’t included a scene where Blake puts just as much effort into their relationship as Yang does. And they didn’t include a scene where the two make it clear that they’re fine being apart. If anything, CRWBY has established the opposite, and it isn’t enough to just say that they’re taking care of each other, when they don’t show that to be the case. 

Sun being not only willing to let Blake be with others, go her own way, and be her own person, but encouraging of that, made him a very compelling romantic prospect for her. Unfortunately I just don’t see that with Blake and Yang. Their relationship feels co-dependent, and maybe it’s just my personal experience talking and making me chafe, but I personally just don’t like it.

However, fans have been queerbaited long enough. So personal opinions aside, CRWBY give Bumblebee some confirmation you fucking cowards.

[technicallyblakebelladonna]

Do you trust crwby is actually going to make Blake yang a thing? Outside of nora there hasn’t been anything more and it’s been two volumes since watch and find out. This whole sun in vacuo always scared me especially if they weren’t official by that point. Media’s burned me so many times before I’m hoping rwby isn’t like that.

totally, yeah. i do trust them. i’m in the camp that they’re already “a thing” -- though i know some people are waiting for a kiss to Really Confirm, which i can understand but, really. they’re already going there with the bees storyline. imo (even though i haven’t been around in the FNDM for this long), they’ve been “going there” since v3 when adam said “i’m going to destroy *everything* you love. starting with *her*” when yang appeared

i get being wary, honestly. i think everyone can understand being unsure and scared -- after everything wlw/sapphic are always subject to in media, it’s absolutely understandable to be nervous and worried that everything’s going to burn down.

but (idk if you’re a FIRST member or not so i’m going to avoid spoilers from today’s episode) take their reunion just a few episodes ago. not only was it animated Like That, but it was animated in such a way that that shot/moment was Obviously given the most time. not just from like a “oh the bees had a Bigger Moment than, say, yang had with weiss (or even ruby, to an extent)”

it was animated in such a way that implied that there was so much love and care put into those shots. everything was so deliberate, smooth, detailed. everything about that moment was purposeful and intentional.

as for sun in vacuo, well i can’t speak for what That’s going to be like in the future, but v6e1 was pretty clear to me. obviously sun means a lot to blake, but she has very clearly made her choice. she’s choosing to stay with her team, she’s choosing to stay by yang’s side. and i highly doubt that miles&kerry (i point to them specficially bc they’re the original writers along with monty) will let her character turn a complete 180 for no reason? honestly, there’s like, literally nothing that will turn blake away from her team, there’s nothing that will have her running away ever again. she’s there to stay

so i know it’s been a long run (two volumes since that RWBYRW episode where all kerry had to say was “keep watching”), and a kiss will probably not happen until volume 9 at this point i’m saying -- but look at it this way, i heard that rwby has at least 12 volumes of content planned (and i’ve seen somewhere even that there could be up to 15 volumes). so there’s time. we just have to hang in there, and enjoy what we’ve gotten so fair <3

[nexyra]

What is your take on rwby chara's mbti types? I think

Weiss - xSTJ, thought that she was ESTJ at first but ISTJ makes a lot of sense too.

Winter - ESTJ

Pyrrha - ESFJ

Emerald - ISFJ (I've seen some ppl type her as INFJ but I don't see how she is a Ni dom?)

Whitley - ENTJ? I'm honestly not sure abt that..

Adam - fucked up xNFJ, probably INFJ (seen him typed as xNTJ but his delusional thinking process imo screams unhealthy Ti and I think his manipulation of Blake and the WF is more Fe than Te

Qrow - was thinking ISTP but with the more recent volumes I'm really not sure..

Penny - ENFP

Ozpin - Uuuuuh INTP maybe?? But I've seen some people type him as INFJ. INFJ 5w6 would make sense as to why he might appear as an INTP but idk..

Bartholomew- ENTP

Jaune - no fucking idea honestly

Ironwood - ENTJ

Sun - Seen ppl type him as ENFP but I don't see any Ne at all..,,ESFP?

Yang - ESxP, maybe ESTP

Cinder - INTJ

Mercury - ISTP

Oscar - ISFJ

Ren - ISTx?

Hello anon ! I see my love for typology hasn't gone unnoticed 😂 Thank you so much for the ask !

I prefer enneagram over MBTI because I find it easier to type; so fair warning that I'm not an authority on MBTI-typing. But I do have have an ongoing RWBY typing that includes MBTI sooo... here goes !

(I'm putting my ennea typings along with it, but not explaining them on this post)

➸ RWBYJNPR

Ruby • xNFP 6w7 9w1 2w3?

I just can't decide between the two fors Ruby because... it kind of goes both way ??? Like Ruby definitely feels as INFP for the first half of the series; she's got a clear Fi > Ne preference... But then when she develops her Tert in V6 it's just... Te ? And she really doesn't show much Si actually she fits more the Si inf vibe in the form of forgetting about bad memories and her mom until people dig it up and she's like "nooo !" ?? So it looks like Te > Si but also Fi > Ne; conclusion idfk

Weiss • ISTJ 1w2 6w5 3w4 sp/so

Clear Fi tert rearing its head along with the 1 so I'm going with ISTJ; I also never really saw any Ne. Her type isn't too disagreed upon so tell me if you want a lenghtier explanation.

Blake • ISFP 6w5 9w8 4w3 (in some order)

Wooh this might get the anger of some (i have experience with the INFJ typers) but Blake goddamn REEKS of Fi. Less so recently but for the first seasons oh my god. She straights up catch you by the shirt and tells you "I'm doing the right thing"; and said right thing is so heavily dependant on her own subjectives values, which is why Blake can't reconcile with the current White Fang; because she doesn't have a strong Je vision of "what objectively works in the end", she only sees actions in terms of immediate right and wrong, and this b&w dichotomy stems from herself. What the WF is doing is wrong and the circumstances don't matter for judging the morality of their actions (of course I'm not talking about murder here bc that's pretty wrong ALL THE TIME but for example the stealing occuring in V1 bc of the WF is a better example)

Yang • ESXP 7w8 8w7 2w3

I'm sorry about that but I can't help you on that aspect anon, I still can't make up my mind about whether Yang has Fi or Ti. I have seen arguments for both, and i'm not the best at picking up on Ti so it's hard for me to tell.

Jaune • ESFJ 6w7 3w2 9w1

No strong opinions on his MBTI, it's kinda just based on vibes

Nora • ENFP 6w7 9w8 3w2

Textbook ENFP, not much to say here x))

Pyrrha • XXFJ 2w1 1w2 6?

In my list Pyrrha is currently written down as ISFJ but that's mostly based on the general consensus and me wanting to get rid of the XX. I don't actually have any convincing arguments to decide on Ni or Si, so I could go either way if someone else makes their case well. I feel like she's Fe aux more than dom, but even about that I could change my mind. Pyrrha didn't have that much screentime in the end :((

Ren • ISTJ? 9w1 5w4 4w5

Ironically I'm not sure about his type, kind of like you. I've mentionned I'm not very good at picking up on Ti right ? And Ren was a background character before V4 really. I had him written down as ISTP for a while but I've seen some convincing arguments for ISTJ so I might lean toward that actually but who knows. The thing I'm very confident about is his 5 fix = )

➸ Faunus bonus

Sun • ESFP 7w6 2w3 9w1 so/sx

I don't see any Ne at all either so I don't understand the ENFP typings...?? Maybe the 7 stereotypes ? Imo Sun is just a very good boy; certified ESFP 7 himbo; triple positive sunshine !

Ilia • Ti-Fe axis ?

Again, not enough screentime for me to make an educated guess. My only certainty is : not high Fi. It's the source of their conflicts. Blake confidence in absolute right & wrong, tracing lines in the sand between acceptable & unacceptable. Whereas Ilia can only shake her head and say "Because it works", or cry out "I don't know what else to do !"

Adam • 3w4 8w7 6w5

I honestly don't really have much of an opinion about Adam's MBTI, i'm sorry anon ;; I don't know enough about how he thinks

➸ Oz-related things and his circle

Ozpin • INFJ 5w4 2w1 1w9

I would personally call him an INFJ. I... never really got INTP vibes from him ? I don't see the Fe inf work out with his interactions : he's always rather at ease, he knows how to navigate around people... His focus inherently lies on doing what's best for the "group", the people, humanity. Fx functions are both concerned with ethics, in different ways, and I think Oz reflects that well. He IS concerned with the moral weight of his actions, but it's a more adaptable and unpersonnal concern than Fi people. He regards Ironwood's soul machines as something wrong, but can still agree to use it if the situations demand it for example. So... if the INFJ + 5 makes sense to you, well that's what I'm typing him personally. I also feel like Ni fits him more than Ne. Ozpin has a very linear way of planning, he does use his fair share of symbolism in every day conversation... Even when taking decisions, he... kind of cares about the meaning of things a lot ? It's hard to explain but like; the way he highlights the difference between an army and a guardian, and the emotionnal response it brings. I don't know it feels like there's some Ni vibes in there x)

Oscar • ISFJ 9w8 6w7 3w2

Oscar's type honestly isn't the one I would have the easiest time explaining in lenght but yea. It's mostly vibes; also just like Ozpin he doesn't seem to have a particularly Fi reasonning. And he feels more grounded, I don't really remember any Ni so... yay ?

Ironwood • ENFJ 6w5 1w2 3w4 (pre-Vol8); ENTJ (post-Vol8)

Might be weird if you think he was a dictator from the start, but I kind of entertained the idea of Ironwood being Fe dom ? From his very first interaction it was very clear that he was a Je dom to me; he's all about objective results; he doesn't give off the "internal framework" or "personnal values" vibe AT ALL; so it was more a matter of picking Te or Fe. He LOOKS super Te don't get me wrong; but he also has an enneagram tritype that is very common amongst XXTJs (and TJs stereotypes thus derive from it). And just like Oz, his focus at all time seemed to be the greater good and doing what's best for the people still. So I was like... Eh, a "harsh" ENFJ I think that's interesting ? Plus Fe ethics actually derive from their environment, kinda like "everyone agrees that Y is wrong", and if you consider that James is from Atlas... Well his way of thinking and ethics align pretty well with the military.

His character took a turn for the worse in V8 (whether too quick or not depends on who you ask) and past that point he's a clear ENTJ; but I feel like it was more debatable before that. Idk though I might be overthinking this in the hope of making more interesting combinations xD

Qrow • ISTP 4w3 6w7? 1w9? sp/sx

I don't really see anything else than ISTP for Qrow... But he's not a character I would want to find Ti arguments for either.

Raven • ENTJ Cp6w5 8w9 3w4

Most villains get called ENTJ at the first occasions tbh zlqfznhqzkf but I think it fits Raven for the most part actually...

➸ Atlas

Winter • ESTJ 1w9 3w4 6w5

The whole Schnee family has the same enneagram tritype in different order/different wings, it's ridiculous I think she has a higher Te than Weiss, and Fi inf fits her more. She struggles more to reconcile with her emotions and the idea of a personal right/wrong than her little sis.

Penny • ENFP 4w3 6w7 9w1 sx/so

Perfect example of a healthy 4, she's a great friend a cutie pie. ... Sorry we were talking about MBTI x) Well again, textbook ENFP. Not much to debate here.

Whitley • 3w4 1w9 6w5?

Not enough material for me to guess a MBTI type correctly either, sorry... I could see some kind of xNTJ yea but it's really just vibes and not enough concrete.

➸ Antagonists and Extras

Cinder • 8w7 3w4 6w5

Never cared to guess her MBTI type. I hereby type her as insufferable qkfqskfq. More seriously, I don't really know sorry Anon :/

Emerald • 2w3 ?w? ?w?

I never got Fe vibes from her tbh, I just think she's a 2. And Fe as a function is very infused with 2 stereotypes. So yea. Like, she isn't even that worried about the morality of her actions or anything more than the other villains. She just cares more about her personal relationships and being loved, so she automatically looks much nicer, especially with 2 mechanisms of trying to make herself useful and needed. Also because she's surrounded by 8-ish people xD

Mercury • 8w9 7w8 ?w?

ISTP doesn't sound too farfeteched, but I never MBTI-typed him either, sorry.

+

Bartholomew Oobleck • xSxJ 5w4

The only vibe he gave me is Si somewhere because of all his talks about learning from the past and everything repeats itself and it's a mine of informations at Mountain Glen... That's really the only time I tried to put down anything for him, and it was Si + 5. He could be some kind of xNTP nerd too for sure, but that's more vibe and I couldn't make an actual argument for it.

[cosmokyrin]

The bees: shown to be a good pair in a fight

The fndm: *loses their minds*

The dolts: work together to take out the elephant grim in season 7 just 2 of them

Most of the fndm: *crickets*

Dont get me wrong I love both ships ALOT but the parallels are right there people!! yet so many people still doubt that we have a chance it happening. It can't just be our shipper goggles anymore!

honestly all these parallels (including Renora and Arkos) is what’s making me want to take my shipper goggles off already, because if I look at the current situation with it, i might as well just fly to space hhshsjsjsjfskksks

now im also wishing for a Ruby / Penny team-up vs one of the villains or something, not just Grimm

though honestly I think the stark difference of BB vs N&D in terms of fandom hype is understandable, probably because N&D was always the smaller, less popular ship since way back in V1, especially in comparison to the bigger / more popular Ruby ships. And frankly I think many N&D shippers were content with their friendship, too; it had romantic potential but perhaps didn’t see it as possibly something that could be canon (i admit I shipped them as crack in the beginning (IN CHIBI, OF ALL THINGS), unlike Monochrome that I shipped right off the bat esp after V1E15-E16).

also I think, to add, Nuts and Dolts is not as popular (idk if it holds true as of this time?) because it has a very subtle kind of dynamic since they feel so similar (especially in V1). Just as some people said, Penny is the Ruby of Atlas. But V7′s Penny development (and Chibi characterization, for some reason) revealed the difference quite well, imo. They are unlike other ships whose dynamics are very apparent at face value (i.e., Ruby / Weiss, Yang / Blake, Blake / Sun, Ren / Nora).

[remnantoforario]

Too Many Cookies: RWBY’s Problem with Excess Part 1

So Volume 8 is over and...it was a rushed mess to say the least. There’s really no other way to describe it. There were some good bits, but they were overshadowed by all the bad things. Which seems to be the formula for RWBY since V5. 

RWBY has never had the strongest writing, I think that’s safe to admit at this point, but after V3 there seemed to be a concentrated effort by CRWBY to improve on that front, which has yielded very mixed results. 

V4 was good (minus the timeline shenanigans), V5 was awful, V6 was divisive to say the least (IMO the first half was good and the second was mostly terrible), and V7 was a mixed bag.

But I’m not here to talk about the plot today (mostly). As the title stated, this post is about RWBY’s problem with excess, more specifically character excess. 

Jellopocalypse mentioned this problem forever ago in their “This is Basically RWBY” video (which is hilarious and you should watch it already if you haven’t) as well as Vexed Viewer around a couple of years ago when he was exploring possibilities for V6. 

As stated in both of those videos (and i’m sure many other videos and posts), RWBY has a problem with introducing a bunch of characters and not doing anything with them. This was mostly forgiven in the first three volumes because of the show’s school setting, but the problem has slowly been growing as of V4.

Just to set the stage, here are the main characters in each volume (essentially those that got the most focus) since the show left Beacon:

V4 - RWBY, JNR, Qrow, Oscar/Ozpin, Salem, Cinder, Tyrian, Sun, Ilia, Ghira, Kali, and the Albains

V5 - RWBY, JNR, Qrow, Oscar/Ozpin, Sun, Ilia, Ghira, Kali, the Albains, Raven, Vernal, Salem, Cinder, Adam

V6 - RWBY, JNR, Qrow, Oscar/Ozpin, Maria, Salem, Cinder, Neo Politan, Adam

V7 - RWBY, JNR, Qrow, Oscar, Maria, Ironwood, Penny, Pietro, Winter, Ace-Ops, Watts, Tyrian, Jacques, Robyn Hill, Cinder, and Neo

V8 - RWBY, JNR, Qrow, Oscar/Ozpin, Ironwood, Penny, Pietro, Maria, Winter, Ace-Ops (Minus Clover), Watts, Neo, Willow, Whitley, The Hound, Salem, Robyn Hill, Happy Huntresses (mostly May), Hazel, Emerald, and Cinder

Now compare these lists to V1-3: RWBY, JNPR, Ozpin, Cinder, Emerald, Mercury, Torchwick, and Penny. Thats it. 

Starting to see a pattern? There are way too many hands in the pot, and all of them are fighting for relevance in the story. Leading to a mess of scenes that take too long on certain characters and push others that should be getting focus to the back.

If we count each person individually with a SHRED of relevance to the plot of V8, we were following a total of 33 characters this volume (If you want to take out Pietro, Maria, Joanna, Fiona, The Hound, Whitley, and Willow, that still leaves 26). 

Now normally in shows with ensemble casts like this (MHA, One Piece, Bleach, Naruto, DB, Black Clover, etc.) this number isn’t really a problem, in fact this number is VERY small considering how big those casts gets (especially OP). 

Why its a problem with RWBY though is that most of these characters have little or nothing to do, or havent done anything since certain volumes. So they are essentially window dressing.

In my opinion, this should have been the main casts for Volumes 7 and 8: 

V7: RWBY, Oscar, Maria, Pietro, Ironwood, Winter, Jacques, Willow, Whitley, Watts, Tyrian, Happy Huntresses, Penny, Ace-Ops, Qrow. 25

V8: RWBY, Oscar, Ozpin, Maria, Pietro, Penny, Ace-Ops (minus Clover), Willow, Whitley, Jacques, Happy Huntresses, Ironwood,  Emerald, Hazel, Winter, Salem, Cinder, Watts, Neo, Qrow. 28

The main thing here is that we took JNR out. Mostly because they haven’t served a purpose since Volume 6. 

Once RWBY got back together JNR lost any real plot importance they had. Jaune takes away scenes that should be given to other characters and Ren and Nora are just here at this point to have meaningless relationship drama that hurts both of their characters.

I know some people reading this will complain about me jettisoning Nora’s character “development” in V7, but in all honesty you could have given all of her non-Ren related scenes with pretty much the exact same dialogue to either Yang or Blake and nothing would have changed. 

Jaune didn’t do anything much of anything in Volume 7 and the one moment he had in Volume 8 was instantly met by hate from fans and non-fans alike. Best to just get him out of here. 

As for Ren, his character was fine throughout the two volumes but the time spent on his “I can see character arcs” semblance evolution could have been better served, you know, ACTUALLY fleshing out those character arcs.  

Honestly, I’d cut out more characters than just them...but that’s for part 2. 

[kittyprincessofcats]

I finished RWBY Volume 5!!

Loved it!! After volume 4 was (understandably) a bit slower-paced, I didn’t expect things to get intense and serious this quickly, but I’m glad they did! I have so many thoughts I wanted to write down, so here we go:

[There will be spoilers for RWBY up to Volume 5 in this post (duh). Please don’t leave spoilers for anything after Volume 5 on this post, otherwise I will block you.]

- I have to say, I definitely liked Cinder more when she wasn’t talking. During Volume 4, I kind of started feeling bad for her on some level, but then she got better and started being her old condescending, power-hungry self and I was like… nevermind, I hate you again.

- Qrow being super drunk when he first brings Oscar home was absolutely hilarious.

- Yang is SO COOL. Have I mentioned that she’s so cool? Like wow, I wish I was that cool! The bike, the new (amazing) outfit, the way she just punched that creepy guy and walked right up to her mom’s bandit camp making demands of her – she’s so cool and I’m here for it.

- Yang and Weiss’ reunion was so sweet! 😭 I was waiting for literally any of Team RWBY’s members to reunite and that got me right in the feels! (Also, I loved the whole “Wait, your mom kidnapped me?” “Wait, you kidnapped her?” exchange - brilliant 😂.)

- Ruby’s reunion with Yang and Weiss was so sweet, too! 😭 Tears were definitely shed over reunions in this volume! And it was so nice to finally have most of Team RWBY and what’s left of Team JNPR back together and see them bond and catch up with each other 😭. Found family back together! It’s what they deserve!

- Yang being so angry at Blake for leaving makes perfect sense, imo, especially considering her own abandonment issues. And even more so considering that she lost that arm while protecting Blake. Also, I don’t think it’s reading too much into it to say that Yang and Blake’s interactions and their storyline together have had romantic undertones since volume 2. (And no, I’m not just saying that because I ship Bumbleby; it’s the other way around – I ship Bumbleby because those romantic undertones were there in the first place.) So yeah, Yang always tried to help and support Blake, lost an arm protecting her from her abusive ex, and then Blake just left – I get why Yang’s hurt and angry. And that moment where she goes from complaining about how she just wants to be there for Blake, before finally admitting “What if I needed her there for me?” - that’s a really good moment for Yang, even beyond the romantic subtext. It’s nice to see Yang admit that she also wants someone else to be there for her, that she wants to receive that same love and care in return.

- I also want to point out that it’s nice to see how far Weiss has come since volume one. She really took a level in kindness and became a lot more mature, to the point where she’s now giving Yang relationship advice. It’s really nice to see.

- Ruby’s talk with Oscar about Penny and Pyrrha really got me teary eyed.

- I wasn’t that fond of Sun at first, but he had some really great moments in this volume, so he’s starting to grow on me now. I still don’t ship him with Blake, but their friendship is sweet.

- And now, let’s talk about THE standout character of the whole volume for me: ILIA!! Holy hell, I love everything about her! You know how some characters grow on you over time, and then there are those characters that you see one episode with and they just become instant favourites? That second one was Ilia for me. I watched Blake’s character short before Volume 5 and the moment I heard her backstory she jumped right to the top of my favourite character list without question AND I started shipping her and Blake right away. (Yes, I love Bumbleby and all, but I’m a multishipper. I’m perfectly capable of equally loving two ships that contradict each other.)

- It’s just – Ilia and Blake’s dynamic got me hooked! Not to compare everything to my OTP (Catra and Adora from She-Ra and the Princesses of Power), but let me quickly make this comparison: Two girls who grew up together, were both members of a certain evil organization until one of them left it and the other didn’t, now they’re on opposing sides and have to fight each other, but they still clearly care about each other. Plus, there are confirmed romantic feelings from at least one side there. I know many people (including myself) have compared Bumbleby to Catradora before – because you’ve got one blonde jock and one catgirl – but when it comes to the dynamic and the backstory, Blake and Ilia (what’s that ship called? Catmeleon, I think?) resemble Catradora even more. And it’s just the kind of dynamic I’m weak for.

(Honestly, it’s kind of funny how predictable I am both when it comes to favourite characters and favourite ships. My sister, who got me into both She-Ra and RWBY, took one look at Catra years ago and immediately predicted that I would love her. And when she first saw Ilia, she also immediately knew she’d be one of my favourites. Basically, my sister once described my “type” of favourite characters as “troubled, cute and gay” and that pretty much sums it up.)

- Speaking of troubled, cute, and gay: I’m glad RWBY finally has some CANON LGBT representation! Hell yes for that! Honestly, I interpreted Ilia’s feelings for Blake as romantic right away, but I wondered if it was just bait or my usual tendency to see romantic undertones in any interaction between two girls. But then that “I wanted you to look at me that way” line happened and… WOW. Yes. Amazing, talented, brilliant, never been done before, showstopping, incredible. I’m 100% sold on both the ship and Ilia as a character.

(One more thing before I change topics: I try to keep these posts positive and not get into discourse too much (since I’ve heard there was (is?) a lot of discourse in the RWBY fandom – but I took just one look into the tag for Volume 5 and immediately saw people arguing that Ilia’s not good representation because she’s a villain. And I just want to quickly address why that’s nonsense, in my opinion (and before you ask, yes I am a lesbian myself): First of all, she’s not even a full-blown villain. She’s clearly shown as confused and misguided from the beginning. And her feelings for Blake are never portrayed as a negative thing. She also has a redemption literally two episodes after being revealed to be queer. And in general, I don’t think queer villains are necessarily a bad thing and I’m tired of queer characters not being allowed to be flawed. How come straight characters get to just exist, but any queer character better be a shining beacon of morality or else they’re bad representation? I agree that RWBY should introduce more queer characters to balance things out a bit, but I wouldn’t say Ilia was bad representation by herself, since she’s a character I think we’re meant to have sympathy for.

- Now I just hope that future volumes of RWBY don’t pull a Bury Your Gays and kill Ilia off... I’d really hate that. (No spoilers on this post, please!)

- The entire fight at the Belladonnas’ house had me so on edge the whole time. I thought someone (most likely one or both of Blake’s parents) was going to die any second. Basically, the ending of volume 3 burned me and now I constantly expect characters to die. I’m glad it all (mostly) turned out well!

- Blake’s speech to the Faunus might have made me a bit emotional. That was a really great moment for her.

- And then there were those final episodes… WOW. Like I said, I really didn’t expect everything to go down so quickly (or for the ending to be that happy – like I said, volume 3 burned me.)

- Jaune unlocking his semblance was nice! And I’m proud of myself for having correctly predicted that he’d have some sort of healing powers. (I was waiting for him to unlock some healing semblance back when Qrow got injured in Volume 4 – I’m glad it finally happened!)

- I was worried about Weiss for a second, then I realized there’s no way she can die since I’ve already seen pictures of her outfit in later volumes. (Plus, I’m pretty sure if a main character had died, I’d have been unable to completely avoid spoilers about it. So those 4 are pretty much the only ones I’m not that worried about.)

- Raven is a really cool and interesting character, but an awful person. (I got so angry at her when she blasted Ruby after Ruby was just so nice to her*. How dare you, lady?) I love her design, though!

[*EDIT: I just rewatched it and realized that it was Cinder who blasted Ruby, Raven just created the portal. Point still stands, tough.]

- The plot twist of who the Spring Maiden really is was EPIC. Really loved that reveal! (And I honestly didn’t see it coming.) Though I have to say, I feel really bad for Vernal, and for the previous Spring Maiden.

- The Cinder VS Raven fight was absolutely epic and just stunning to watch visually. I was wondering if we’d ever get a maiden vs maiden battle, and that scene more than delivered! And while I don’t particularly like either of them, I was definitely rooting for Raven in that fight.

- I’m not sure if Cinder really died there. If so, I’m honestly not too sad about it, but I would be disappointed because I kind of expected her to become a more interesting character later on. After Volume 4, I expected at least a bit of growth there or something that would make her more interesting. And I’m not talking about a redemption, just to be clear! I just think the potential to make her more interesting as a villain was there, and if they just killed her off it’s kind of wasted now and she stayed a very flat character until the end. But I guess we’ll see.

- Raven and Yang’s confrontation was pretty intense. I liked that Raven finally had to admit that she’s afraid and doing all of this just to protect herself, and the contrast to Yang, who is also scared but still does what she thinks is right. And the fact that Raven was willing to let Yang have the relic despite the danger that would put her in – mom of the year indeed 🙄.

- Blake and the other Faunus are the real MVPs of the battle, tbh. The fact that they just completely stopped Adam and the White Fang by sheer numbers and didn’t even give them the chance to attack anyone? God tier stuff. And when Blake’s mom came in with the police? 10/10, we stan.

- Also, Blake telling Adam she’s not there for him? Hell yes, girl! I love how she’s taking power away from her abuser by showing she isn’t doing any of this for him. Really nice.

- Yang and Blake’s reunion in the last episode was super nice. I like how there was so much attention on that reunion in particular. And while I’m glad Yang wasn’t too angry at Blake and it makes for a nice happy ending, I still hope there’s a scene next volume where Blake properly apologizes to Yang for leaving and explains her side of things. And then, they should get together and live happily ever after and have lots of kittens. I mean, what?

- And finally, all of Team RWBY is back together! And they’ll have a lot to catch each other up on. Blake doesn’t even know about the maidens, the relics and Salem yet, while the rest didn’t even know about the White Fang attack. Also, I want Blake to introduce the others to Ilia and to her parents.

I really loved this volume. Lots of action, lots of really sweet moments, lots of epic fights and cool plot twists. I find it hard to rank them, but this might have been my favourite volume yet (volume 3 was also really good, though).

[tiktaalic]

I still can’t get when you’re using queer bait seriously or not as seriously. I don’t want to sound like some people that will scream and claw at people that say the bees are queerbait because they’re a slow burn (though i just made it sound like it Fuck) I just need to know in what level of seriousness you are right now

i don’t throw bait around loosely! genuinely there are maybe 3 pairings in the whole wide world i would call bait. 

destiel is one for obvious reasons. if these reasons are not obvious lmk and i will write an mla essay about how they were IT. 

that pitch perfect pairing is another one because they used a kiss in their promo materials alongside stuff like “will they end up together?” and then cut the kiss in the actual movie lol and the movie ends w one of them dating some guy

i HAVE called sambucky bait. this is slightly tongue in cheek. i don’t think marvel is angling for gay streams which is like. part of the actual for real definition of bait. but they are playing out some greatest hits of bait like going to couples counseling and awkward boob face plant, which you don’t really see in pairings unless they’re bait!

and then there’s bees. sigh. i gotta throw a lot of disclaimers all over this one, like that i was a live watcher for v3 and v4 and then was like. hey i don’t think i actually like this show. and stopped. all ik about rwby is what my one rwby invested mutual puts on my timeline, and she’s a freezerburn warrior so. also i do NOT stand with the hardcore bees who say they came off as romantic in v1-v3. they_sure_are_standing_next_to_each_other.jpg.

i do think bees are bait! it’s weak bait, because i can think of three scenes top that feel bait-y (v3 finale, the hair cut, the adam KO). IF it was just these scenes and there was no external acknowledgement, i would probably not class it as bait. BUT. hair cut and adam KO + the list of things i will put under this are all what_was_the_reason.jpg. ok. so.

bees song. this one feels self explanatory. we’ll sit there awhile and i’ll drink in your smile my head starts to buzz and my heart fills with love for you-u-u-U! i know that it was only on the album because of extremely messy showrunning but it WAS on the album and i was on twitter when we were frantically transcribing the snippet we got before the full song and i was on twitter when they waited weeks and weeks before the first and only time they addressed it at some podunk panel. 

the mythical monty era interview about how there WILL be lgbt characters in the main characters and we’ll see that as they naturally grow and discover themselves

i was joking a little bit about arryn doing bait but like. she did very much get a bees tat and she DID make those tweets that were a picture of a boat (ship) sailing and a camera with a big CANON logo on it before she deleted them. ik she’s bi and it’s genuinely close to her heart and i majorly respect her for stepping in to clear up the song stuff when everyone who actually had a responsibility to clear it up went silent. again, i wouldnt describe what she does as baiting, but what she does is usually cited in bees plane emoji theories

i WAS serious about the valentines stunt being bait. like. lol. [for multiple years in a row makes valentines about our most popular pairing that’s in the top ten of femslash on ao3]

kerry saying his favorite pairing was bees way back when. Kieran You Motherfucking Write The Show

i have a tin hat that says they broke up sun and blake so that they had more room to play up blake yang.

this is from dec 2020 from before they changed the desc. i’m fairly sure there’s More but i’m p disconnected at this point and i don’t have an archive of my rwby twitter on hand rn.

so like. they play up the bees angle and the explicitly do it for profit and imo there’s absolutely no intention to follow through. if i’m wrong i’m wrong but i’m not wrong. miles luna and co are NOT my friend 

in conclusion: