#as for the mcu I would like to think it was hawkeye or hulk

[bobbimorses]

what do you think of matt fraction's hawkeye run? obviously its very highly regarded but i have seen criticisms on how he portrayed clint's character and that some people also had issues with it because all the mcu fans used it as substitue characterisation after avengers 2012 left them with not much and "became insufferable about it." also that other good hawkeye comics were ignored in favour of it.

well idk if i would characterize "became insufferable about it" with regards to reading a comic as it is released bc comics have so much trouble succeeding. but i think what you're getting at with pointing to 2012 is a sort of revisionism that's occurred. and it has! i think many have forgotten, and many more are now unaware (bc time disgustingly marches on for all of us) that the avengers movie, in fact, came out before hawkeye v4 (the fraction & aja run we're discussing) even began.

i would like to gently grab you all by the shoulders when i say this--bc i realize we've reached a point where some of you were literal kindergarteners when this movie came out and don't have the cultural consciousness to know not only was hawkeye not (never!) a household name, but neither were "the avengers" for the most part--but whenever you say "i can't BELIEVE the mcu didn't include/start with [storyline from hawkeye v4. page from hawkeye v4. panel from hawkeye v4. dialogue/"catchphrase" from hawkeye v4. relationship from hawkeye v4. retconned backstory/fluency from hawkeye v4 ]" regarding clint, know that that literally did not exist at the time.

mcu clint showed up wearing all black in 2011. mcu clint in the movie "the avengers" wasn't even wearing purple. mcu clint was actually not even that clinton francis barton. the mcu started off as the ultimates. "i can't believe the mcu didn't make clint like clint barton in this page from 2015." mcu made clint like clint barton from an entirely different line of comics, the ultimates, with an entirely different clint barton, bc the 2010s had just started crawling out of the Grit and Realism and We're All Wearing Black Leather of superhero movies from the 2000s. and practically none of those were comic-accurate. the mcu still isn't by god but a current mcu movie can resemble a specific storyline and have a recognizable costume whereas a lot of superhero movies in the 2000s (not you spider-man and hulk costumes) were like "here is the character, bulleteater foxtrot. he is based on the celebrated indie comic where someone shoots at a lonely boy making friends with a fox in the forest and, after a bullet grazes his face and kills the fox, he avenges his friend by championing the survival of forest critters over encroaching aggressive habitat destruction. in this movie, some hitman in the mob that eats shrapnel-os for breakfast every day gets intel from a woman named foxy and 35% of the scenes are in a seedy club with gratuitous dancing. nobody has the same name as a single character in the series. 80% of our viewers will not know this was based on a comic when it airs at 10pm on showtime. godspeed."

digressing psa over. that wasn't your question at all but we went through that journey just now together.

ANYWAYS i see what you're saying about "substitute characterization." when clint had so little non-mind controlled scenes and characterization available from the mcu at all, you can understand people pulling from the comics for their characterization. as they should! comic book movies have characters from comic books! whooo, comics! it's fair that people were reading the currently releasing comic to supplement their fanworks of this character with a lacking portrayal. and bc of the popularity and acclaim of the series, well that just made it easier. but these elements combined meant past portrayals of clint were kind of overshadowed, bc people were unfamiliar with the clint barton of the past 50 years. why? bc clint barton wasn't a household name! hey, it all ties back! that digression wasn't a digression after all!

well as you all know, the avengers made a billion dollars. people did not know clint barton, but now people do. only they don't know clint barton, they know the name, clint barton. oh cruel household name irony, our journey is not over. and the people reading hawkeye v4, perhaps even their very first foray into comics (or still unsure of how to access comics so they see piecemeal panels of it second-hand), now that they're curious about all this? well they're like "hey, wait a second...where was this clint barton?" so now you can have vocal contingents of fans of popular and acclaimed comic hawkeye v4, like "yo, that's not clint barton!" people would like comics portrayed accurately in movies that are purported to be comic books based. god knows that would be wild. but using hawkeye v4 as all examples means our purple-masked friend is, well, purple-maskless. but them's the breaks.

now back to your actual question. i've actually typed way too much explaining this weird set of circumstances about mcu vs 2012 bc i think it helps explore the second part of your...statement? but as to your actual question, which i think would be more comics-centric than criticisms with mcu fans, i've touched on that a few times before. not to link to other questions to answer your question, but yeah. it's a great comic. there's a reason it did so well. it just so happens that that may have led to historical portrayals of clint being eclipsed with subsequent writers trying to replicate its success haphazardly. no reason for us all to do the same. we love reading the source material don't we folks. for more unnecessarily long tangents about clint barton, feel free to peruse my meta tag. we are all lovers of a certain clint barton on this here planet earth

[unhingedmarvelandclassicwhobuff]

Apparently at some point MCU fans collectively agreed that the Blip takes place on October 17th, 2023. Which is today. So I figured I'd take the time to detail the four biggest reasons why the time jump in Endgame was a universe-shatteringly horrible idea that should never have seen the light of day

the absolute biggest problem, of which there are many, is the fact that countless people died as collateral damage in the initial Snap. Hell, we are shown it in the Infinity War post-credit scene with those multiple car accidents and that helicopter slamming into a building. And that was just the tip of the iceberg; imagine how many planes crashed because the pilots were dusted, or how many babies starved because both their parents were dusted, or people who may have died on the operating table because a surgeon got dusted. All of these people are totally ignored. It's never so much as mentioned when talking about bringing everyone back, and Tony insisting that the last five years remain unchanged is implicitly saying all of those people remained dead when the dusted returned.

the second big problem with this plot point is that it's used as an excuse for every character except Nat to be totally unrecognizable. Bruce becomes Professor Hulk, Thor gets fat, Tony has a family (and I fucking love how the movie inadvertently says he just let the world rot for five years instead of using his billions of help. That is 100% in character for him), Clint went on a mass killing spree, and Steve... I actually have no idea what made him change so radically. None of this is shown to us at all, it's just told to us.

this is less a problem with Endgame and more a problem with Phases 4 and 5, but the other worse thing about this development is that absolutely nothing has been done with it. Far From Home played the time-jump for comedy, WandaVision had that one great scene in the hospital and then did nothing else, Shang-Chi had a singular throwaway line about the Blip, Hawkeye had that one neat visual of getting Snapped from Yelena's POV and then nothing else, Multiverse of Madness had a single conversation where Strange wonders if letting Tony have his way was the only way to save the universe, Quantumania had a single scene addressing the homelessness issue and then nothing else, and I think Secret Invasion tried to do a bit of a look at how Talos reacted to the Blip, but that show was so awful that I'd rather not think about it. The only projects to do anything at all with the Blip as a major plot point are Falcon and the Winter Soldier and Eternals.

the fourth and final massive problem with the Blip is pretty simple yet complicated; it ignores the absolutely insurmountable societal implications both the Snap and the Blip would have. Think about it; half the fucking universe disintegrates into ash. There are SO many things that would do to just human society alone. But even more importantly, five years after all those people were declared dead (meaning wills are executed, spouses remarried, jobs and homes redistributed, etc) those people suddenly reappear, and from their POV it's only been a second. Just to put it in perspective, the Snap happened on April 29th, 2018. Doesn't that feel like forever ago? If the Snap were real, all those people would have been gone until today. That is such a huge mindfuck that I'm shocked no one went insane. And even looking aside from the psychological impact, all those people are pretty fucking screwed. Far From Home had a single scene addressing this, then promptly forgot about it.

My final point is less of a problem and more of an amusing byproduct; since Tony directly forbids Bruce from undoing the last five years, that means the events of WandaVision, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Hawkeye, No Way Home, Multiverse of Madness, and Secret Invasion are on some level his fault. That’s fucking hysterical.

I suppose I'll be absolutely fair and say that rewinding time isn't a morally perfect solution either, as you would be erasing any maturity the survivors gained during those five years, as well as anyone born in that time. But that's just all the more reason to NOT HAVE A FUCKING TIME-SKIP!!! I still think the only reason it was done was for cheap shock value.

All in all, the five-year time jump is the single worst major plot point in the MCU. Fight me.

[lena-thinks-too-much]

Comparing The Avengers to the Justice league but it's actually accurate

We're just gonna do the main ones because otherwise we'd be here forever

I'm also mainly using mcu characterizations because I'm not as familiar with Marvel comics as I am with DC

Iron Man - Batman

This one goes without saying

Tony is literally Batman and Brucie Wayne put together

Billionaire Playboy Philantropist Superhero who?

They both have ridiculous paranoia

They're rich orphans with British butler (or butler adjacent if we're talking about Jarvis)

Incredibly smart and know it

They both run multimillion dollar companies

and work to better the world both in and out of their super hero persona's

Thor - Aquaman

Non human royalty

friendly and funny

Both of them have a strong sense of duty and loyalty towards their people

They just don't get normal society a lot of the time

Also interwoven magic and science

and they both have really strong elementally based powers

plus a very specific weapon that is inherently associated with them

to be honest, I don't actually know much about aquaman but it feels right

Captain America - Wonder Woman

They are literally soldiers

They both fought in a world war

Also Diana's love intrest is literally a blonde soldier named Steve

Both of them have a strong sense of duty and moral obligation

They're also the most fond of proteges and younger heros

I'm sorry but Steve had no business being so nice to Peter during the airport battle

Dude you are literally fighting each other

Idk the military background makes them more similar in my opinion

also the fact that they're super behind on a lot of modern day stuff

Like everyone remembers Diana discovering ice cream don't we?

and grandpa steve my beloved

Hulk - Superman

okay this one was a little hard

at first I was gonna do Guy Gardner cuz green guy with anger issues. But Guy's kind of an asshole and Bruce is a sweetheart

so then I thought the Flash for the science but I don't think Bruce is into puns enough to match with either Barry or Wally

But Clark is perfect

Clark is a dork

But he is genuinely really intelligent

also they literally wear the same glasses

I think Clark and Bruce would get along really well

If you want to talk about the anger issues

Well

We've all scene Batman V. Superman

Tbh not my favorite version of superman

Clark is obviously not quite prone to rage

and it's definitely no where near hulk levels though

But when he's angry it gets destructive real fast

think about most of his fights with doomsday

Constantly worries about his own strength and hurting the people he loves

Which is a struggle both of them are characterized by

Black Widow - Orphan/Black Bat/Batgirl

okay I know cass isn't technically a member of the league

but hear me out

also I'm not actually sure which title is Cass's current one

anyways

both were raised from childhood to be a lethal weapon

and they truly are

they both have a major guilt complex over the lives they've taken

and that's one of the biggest factors for them becoming a hero

they joined the good guys to get out of the assassin lifestyle

Also dancing?

like the widows were trained in ballet since it was the red room's cover

and cass dances as an escape

I think it's poetic

Also they both are the owners of their family's shared braincell

Cass is like Natasha but younger really

Hawkeye - Green Arrow

so I know at first glance this seems obvious

yk skilled archer or whatever

but I wasn't exactly for it at first

I'm not really Green Arrow's biggest fan

But I've recently been reading Mia's run as speedy

and despite the vast, and I mean vast, difference in her back story with Kate

Their mentors are very similar with their proteges

like Oliver is just so soft with mia and it's adorable

not to mention neither wanted a protege at first and then they go and basically adopt them

literally in oliver's case

Also Ollie's into pranking as much as Clint is

And admittedly Oliver is just as strongly attached to his family as Clint is

if we ignore the thing with roy because wtf Oliver

Runner ups:

Thor and Wonder Woman: mythology and their whole fish-out-of-water-ness in modern society

Thor and Captain Marvel: again mythology, lightning powers, and also their childlike nature (literally in Billy's case)

Black Widow and Black Canary: badasses that keep the men on their team in line. need I say more?

Iron Man and Green Arrow: only thing that got me is that Ollie's not nearly smart enough to go toe to toe with Tony

Vision and Martian Manhunter: they can pass through walls and they just don't get humans

Scarlett Witch and Zatanna/ Dr Strange and Constantine: I don't think this requires elaboration

Winter Soldier and Jason Todd: fallen hero presumed dead starts working for the bad guys before switching back to the good guys

Bonus:

Spiderman and Dick!Robin

they're bendy

they love puns

they love swinging in the air

they're smart

they give their mentors high blood pressure

everyone loves them

they have a lot of grief

they have a thing for really smart, badass red heads

Ball of sunshine with ridiculous anger issues

also I think a meeting between Dick and Peter would be a disaster in the best way possible

[jor-elthatendswell]

It's a well worn topic at this point but the imminent release of The Marvels has me thinking about how militaristic the Marvel Cinematic Universe is, with Monica Rambeau aka Photon, a habour patrol member in the comics, reimagined as a captain in the US Air Force.

She follows Hawkeye, who was changed from an argumentative former circus performer with a heart of gold (a character so staunchly against lethal force he once revoked his own wife's Avengers membership because she sort of, maybe, subconsciously allowed a villain to fall to his death) into a hard-nosed black ops assassin.

Sam Wilson/ Falcon made his celluloid debut as an army man with twin submachine guns attached to his wrists. It’s a far cry from his print counterpart’s introduction as a social worker by day who uses his skill at falconry to protect his neighbourhood.

If we allow the argument that modern cinema goers are accustomed to a sprinkling of realism to make their superheroes palatable (and it’s a strange argument really- why should realism be a desirable quality in summer blockbuster escapism?) then what actually constitutes “realism”.

Sure, a man who learnt uncanny skill with a bow and arrow growing up with a travelling show couldn’t possibly hold his own alongside Hulk or Thor in the real world (and, yes, there isn’t a Hulk or Thor in the real world; as I say, this is a strange argument), but if he learned those exact same skills in some kind of military context then that somehow passes the bar for realism? The sinister upshot is that these children’s heroes become more warlike just as, globally, they reach more children than ever before.

Increasing the realism of superhero stories only serves to make them problematic. DC Comics' Batman, who is the frequently subjected to “realistic” treatments, is the prime example. If, in real life, a billionaire tooled himself up with the best weapons and body armour money can buy and began dispensing violent “justice” with no accountability, then of course that wouldn’t be a good thing. If they wore a costume with pointy ears and started calling themselves “Batman” then of course we would question their sanity. But Batman isn’t real; it’s a story. Nobody thinks The Muppet Show advocates animal cruelty. Quite the opposite, if anything. ("Not unless they're watching it", as Waldolf once heckled) Yet if a filmmaker decides they’re going to make a “grounded and realistic” remake where Fozzy is played by a real live bear wearing a pork pie hat and spotty necktie, then that's a whole other story. Suspend your disbelief and superheroes are less like the police or army and more akin to volunteers and activists, doing what they can with what they have to improve the lives of those around them. Their actions take the form of crime fighting only because that’s what makes for exciting colourful adventure stories for children.

In the MCU, even Marvel’s poster boy, Spider-Man (another champion of non-lethal solutions, known for his compassion even to his enemies and who possesses an enduring appeal to young children) is given a literal sheen of the military-industrial complex in the form of “Stark Tech” armour, replete with military grade strike drones. Tony Stark even thought to equip his 15 year old protégé-cum-child soldier with an “Instant Kill Mode”. In a moment played for laughs in Spider-Man: Homecoming, Spider-Man rejects his on-board AI's attempt to activate this feature but seems untroubled that such an option exists and, indeed, come Avengers: Infinity War, he voluntarily deploys it. It’s not clear if Spidey actually does kill any of his alien adversaries, but it seems reasonable to assume that one doesn’t say “Activate Instant Kill Mode” without the intention of ending lives. Fans are expected to smile or applaud as Spider-Man says these words, recognising the call-back to Homecoming, rather than find it a gross misrepresentation of Marvel’s most beloved character or an alarming depiction of a children’s favourite.

The MCU Avengers as a whole are a US government “initiative “. The reluctant superheroes need to be cajoled into putting their differences aside for the greater good by army top brass Nick Fury. In a tweak from the source material, the ‘H' in Fury's organisation, SHIELD, stands for ‘Homeland’, making SHIELD as explicitly American venture as opposed to it being ostensibly intergovernmental in the comics.

There is a comic book precedent for this military take on Earth's Mightiest Heroes in the form of The Ultimates, a 2002 series by the British team of writer Mark Millar and artist Bryan Hitch. The Ultimates ,however, was satire. Millar was an unreformed lefty of the old school – someone who has boasted of voting Brexit for left-wing reasons, someone who once appeared on Russia Today as a guest of George Galloway. The Ultimates took swings at the gung ho jingoism of post 9/11 America. Captain America's “Surrender!!?? You think this letter on my head stands for France?“ is not supposed to be a badass one-liner, but rather a parody of the kind of things US media outlets were saying as Jacques Chirac proved less keen than Tony Blair to follow George Bush in bringing gunboat diplomacy to the Middle East. As Millar commentated at the time:

“The Ultimates is completely different because it's a character-driven piece and (something only a few people have noticed) my attempt as a left-wing writer to tell stories about an essentially right-wing concept and cast. It's very much the Anti-Authority, if you will. Captain America and so on are fully-paid members of the US military machine and this means a very different book and approach from a gang of slightly arrogrant, left-wing, superhuman utopians like The Authority ".

Wildstorm Comics' The Authority, which both Millar and Hitch worked on (although not together), was a precursor to Ultimates, featuring a team of similarly “any means necessary” heroes, albeit with a left-wing bent. The Ultimates does have something of The Authority’s utopian streak; Nick Fury and Tony Stark genuinely want to make the world a better place for everyone. It’s very idealistic – what if the head of the military and the biggest tech billionaire actually had the people’s best interests at heart? – and arguably closer to true superhero ethos (basically “with great power there must also come great responsibility “) than those characters more pragmatic MCU equivalents.

Yet, as Millar's one time writing partner Grant Morrison (who actually ghost-wrote at least one issue of The Authority under Miller’s name) observed in Morrison’s major nonfiction work, Supergods, the likes of The Authority, The Ultimates and, by extension, the MCU represent a “capitulation” to the view “that it was really only force and violence that got things done and not patient diplomacy, and that only soldiers and very rich people had the world figured out”. If the MCU is realistic, then it’s a sad indictment of the real world where the heroes are the ones with the best tech, the best guns and no compunction about using them.

Regardless of intent, The Ultimates left a door at Marvel’s “House of Ideas” just enough ajar to allow a malign notion to creep in: “These soldier superheroes are pretty cool. What If they were like that all the time? Wouldn’t they be more popular then”?

Certainly the navy SEAL aesthetic Bryan Hitch brought to the costumes (replacing the colourful tights and capes with pouches, straps and body armour) was soon adopted by superhero tv and film productions even pre-MCU. In fact, Hawkeye's journey from carny to commando mirrors the changes in superhero attire. Most famously, Superman's appearance with the red “overpants” derives from that of circus strongmen, but seeing any photography of early to mid 20th century carnival and circus performers makes it clear the early superhero creators had them in mind when they first put pencil to paper.

In an interview (found in Marvel Spotlight: Captain America, published in 2009) Hitch related how he showed an initial Ultimates drawing of Captain America with a machine gun to Grant Morrison, which Morrison then “described as the most obscene Captain America image [they’d] ever seen”. (NB: Morrison has since adopted gender neutral pronouns). Perhaps Morrison said this with glee, in on the joke with their friends, but in the years since, Cap with a gun became a common sight, even in family-friendly movies (where it was divorced from the irony of The Ultimates).

By a 2015 interview, Morrison lamented the fact that “the Avengers work for the government, and it's been like that since Mark [Millar] did The Ultimates” and said they were “bored with the idea that the best superheroes can represent is some aggressive version of the military. [...] They're supposed to be champions of the oppressed, they help ordinary people, they make things better for people. They don't prop up our grotesque, doddering culture of war and aggression”.

That same year Morrison introduced a new comic book superteam in the pages of The Multiversity. Pointedly the text likens this group, named “Justice Incarnate”, to a “cosmic neighbourhood watch” rather than any formal military or law-enforcement institution.

Millar himself reunited with his Authority collaborator Frank Quitely to create the comic Jupiter’s Legacy, which comes across in part as an apology for The Ultimates and all it begat. It concludes with the protagonists, Chloe Sampson and Eddie "Hutch" Hutchence taking up superhero mantles and promising not to make the moral compromises of their predecessors:

“No more bowing to authority and insitutions. No more deference to people in power”.

“There's a dignity in public service we mistook for old-fashioned, and a humility in having a secret identity, living among the people we protect.“

The Avengers, Marvel’s breakthrough billion dollar box office 2012 movie, by contrast, concludes with Iron Man dropping a nuclear bomb on the “Chitari”, an invading alien army and it seems likely this influenced Morrison’s comments on modern superhero stories.

In Supergods, Morrison

describes their childhood dread of nuclear weapons. The child of “ban the bomb” activists, the “gruesome hand-drawn images of how the world might look after a spirited thermonuclear missile exchange” which illustrated their parents anti-nuclear literature struck terror into the young Morrison. Therefore they seized upon superheroes as being an idea powerful enough to counteract – and overcome – the idea of the bomb.

“It’s not that I needed Superman to be “real,” I just needed him to be more real than the Idea of the Bomb that ravaged my dreams”.

Within the narrative of the movie, Iron Man takes the only option available to him to save New York. Destroying thousands of alien lives to save thousands of human ones. But The Avengers isn’t a documentary; the scriptwriters could have written a satisfying denouement which didn’t involve mass murder. They could at least have included some words of regret by the heroes over what it took to win, acknowledging that killing is not the ideal solution. Instead the Avengers trade banter and eat shawarma, collective conscious clear.

There is a moment in another Grant Morrison work, Final Crisis, which always brings the MCU to mind. In Final Crisis #3, drawn by JG Jones, (published in 2008, the same year the MCU began) “evil gods” from a higher plain of existence have been reincarnated on Earth. In order for the Justice League to counter this threat, a “draft for Superheroes” is implemented. Green Arrow (a Batman-a-like character who was subsequently reinvented to embody the countercultural sentiment of the late 1960s and has since served as the social conscious of the superhero set) responds to receiving his draft notice thusly:

“If anybody falls for this authoritarian, militaristic crap, it’ll prove I’m absolutely right about absolutely everything!... “

Cue the next page, where the drafted heroes have gathered en mass (including Green Arrow, impotently shaking his fist.)

Such an assemblage of characters in usually a triumphant moment in a summer "event" story, but here is framed as a sign that evil already has it’s hooks into reality. This world has fallen to the darkness and the superheroes who inhabit it are too morally compromised to realise it.

[burningfudge]

Buckynat in the Ultimate Universe

The new Ultimate universe has been fantastic, and I'm thoroughly enjoying every single Ultimate comic right now, especially Ultimates and Ultimate Spider-Man, which are easily the best Marvel comics at the moment, in my opinion. But I was also thinking about how Bucky & Natasha could be introduced in this new universe.

So, for those who haven't read the original Ultimate comics, Bucky and Natasha have quite a...colorful background, especially Natasha. Bucky is an old ass man who is married to Gail Richards, Steve's former fiancée from the 40s, and had a huge family with her. Steve and Bucky were childhood friends as compared to Bucky being Steve's kid sidekick in 616. This is also where the MCU took inspiration from. Bucky was never the Winter Soldier because Ultimates released in 2002, three years before Bucky was reintroduced as the Winter Soldier in 616.

Natasha, on the other hand...god, where to begin. Much like her 616 counterpart, she was a part of the KGB and then eventually "defected" to SHIELD. However, she eventually turned out to be a traitor, helping invade America because she wanted to take down the country that "crippled and turned Mother Russia into a bankrupt nation of hookers and gangsters." Plus, she was engaged to Tony Stark, playing him the entire time. Additionally, she was also involved in murdering Hawkeye's family, causing Clint to eventually kill her in revenge for murdering his family. So...not great.

So where are Bucky and Natasha in the new Ultimate universe?

Not present.

It was revealed that Bucky is dead in Ultimate Invasion (2023), but I don't think that's true. Or maybe I'm just being delusional. But Jim Hammond, the original Human Torch, was also labeled as deceased but Steve brought him back to life. I know that's easier since Jim's an android, but still! And as shown in Ultimates #4, the rest of the FF are brutally dead, but I think Reed will bring them back, so why can't Bucky come back? And even if he does come back, I think he'll be the Winter Soldier like 616 and not a regular old man like 1610. Steve, unfortunately, has not mentioned him yet.

I believe Natasha's future will be far more optimistic, however. She was a large part of the original Ultimates team, which the MCU took inspiration from for the first Avengers movie. The OG Ultimates were Steve, Tony, Thor, Clint, Natasha, Bruce, Hank, and Janet. As of Ultimates (2024) #4, the new Ultimates team is Steve, Tony, Thor, Sif, Reed, Hank, Janet, America Chavez, and Lejori Joena Zakaria (She-Hulk), so that's pretty similar! Hawkeye will show up in the next issue, so it's only time until Black Widow shows up too.

But thematically, it's only natural for Natasha to arrive soon since much of Earth 6160 revolves around fascism, geopolitics, and the idea of reclaiming your future, which I think Natasha is perfect for because so much of her future was taken from her as a child. Plus, the Eurasian Republic (where Russia is located) is being ruled by the Rasputin siblings as part of the Maker's Council, so the irony of a Rasputin vs a Romanoff is just too funny for me to ignore, and Hickman and Camp will be aware of it as well. And since Natasha was still loyal to Russia in the OG Ultimate universe, I think it only makes sense if she wasn't in the new Ultimate universe. It's a nice contrast to Steve as well because he's Captain America, but America doesn't exist anymore. What does a soldier with no country fight for? Similarly, Russia doesn't exist either. They're both from countries that don't exist thanks to the Maker.

So much of Natasha's history has been tied to Russia and America, but now neither one of them is relevant, so where does she go from here? I'm assuming she'll still have her regular backstory with the Red Room/KGB and then defect, but I think it would be really interesting if she defects from the Eurasian Republic in this universe and eventually helps the Ultimates. The Ultimates are in sore need of a spy/agent, and Natasha's the best one.

Basically, I don't think Buckynat will be a thing in the new Ultimate universe :(

[agentem]

Marvel Television Ranking (Disney+ era)

Someone asked me which Marvel shows are worth watching and I made a whole post about it. I watched all of them so you don't have to!

You Should Watch:

WandaVision - This show suffers from Marvel's need to have a final CGI battle (the final episode is let down from the previous). But it's Marvel's best use of the TV format. The emotions of it are so strong and it is genuinely a watchable sitcom in places. And it makes you believe that young girl would fuck that robot in a way Infinity War didn't really do.

2. Loki Season One -- There are a few middle episodes that feel slow in this series, but overall this is probably the best one in terms of consistency. Also high concept, with a strong ensemble. Season Two is fine but would be in a lower tier.

3. Ms Marvel - It's a good stand alone show and Marvel does not seem to be backing down on Iman Vellani being central to the MCU going forward (even though the Marvels was poorly received). So you need to know Kamala and also you're welcome because she's adorable.

These Are Good Shows If You Have Time:

4. Hawkeye - It's not as good as the Fraction run in the comics it is based on and it starts a bit slow, but once Echo shows up it's fun. Plus it's a Christmas theme!

5. Avengers 97 - It was my jam as a kid. It's still my jam as an adult. Not really for children though. I am bummed I can't show it to my nephews (character death, genocide, oddly sexualized Magneto, the whole comics shebang).

6. Moon Knight - If you like hippo goddesses and watching Oscar Isaac act with himself, this is the show for you. So far this series has not connected to the wider MCU in any way. The stand-alone-ness of this series is both a strength and a weakness. You can just watch it! But if you are looking to advance the "overall" plot of the MCU then this could feel "pointless" to some. (I'd argue the hippo is the point.)

These Shows Have Issues

7. She Hulk: Attorney at Law: Dudebros on the internet will make you think this is the worst thing Marvel has ever done and that is not the case. But it is hit or miss, and the comedy is women-centric. I actually prefer the more comedic sitcom moments (like the episode in the yurt). You also have to be able to watch bad CGI a lot; it's like they didn't have time to finish it which is probably what really happened. I grew up in the 90s so I have no problem with wonky CGI.

8. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier - I really wanted to like this because Red, White and Black was one of those comics that you read and thought, "of course. This is what would've happened." But mostly it's a let down. Plot points were changed due to the pandemic and it is... noticeable. Anyway, Carl Lumbly is great and if you just want to watch his scenes, then I wouldn't judge you.

9. What If...? I like this one but it feels super skippable. It's like the thing for people who want more Marvel all the time when the culture is dealing with Marvel overload. (Yes, I watched all of it.) I do want to see Jeffrey Wright in live action soon though.

Just NO.

10. Echo -- Very sad to say this because I think the impulse to give Alaqua Cox (she is a disabled, indigenous actress who had never been on TV before) more to do after her debut in Hawkeye was a generous one. But this wasn't thought out enough as it needed to be.

11. Secret Invasion -- It hurts me that this was bad. Luckily Samuel L. Jackson is a pro at being good in bad projects. Simply watching Olivia Coleman's scenes on YouTube would be more satisfying than the show.

[rei-ismyname]

Remember that time Doctor DOOM achieved world peace?

In Emperor DOOM, he captured the Purple Man, Zebediah Kilgrave (a real scumbag,) a villain who has the power of mind control. DOOM recruited Namor to neutralize The Vision and others who'd be able to resist Purple power, and stuck Kilgrave in a doohickey to amplify his ability. Kilgrave objected.

The Purple Man says KYS, but DOOM's will is formidable.

DOOM heads down to the United Nations and puts himself forward as ruler of Earth. Naturally, everyone says yes.

He ends the Soviet-Afghan war, ends famine in Ethiopia, ends Apartheid in South Africa, and the world economy booms (he left capitalism in place? Huge L but it's only been a day IG.) No more wars full-stop. Authoritarian rule sucks, but it's hard to argue with the results. He hasn't killed or even physically harmed anyone.

Hey, it's Luke Cage and The Hulk - guarding The White House. DOOM is taking his job seriously but he craves challenge. Clearly administrating the entire planet is trivial, lol. He gets his wish - The Avengers mostly slipped free of the mind control and are coming to end world peace!

DOOM is delighted to have a rebellion to crush. This is kinda the core of DOOM's character. He's a master of science and sorcery, incredibly educated and competent, but he's incapable of being happy and loves conflict of any kind. So the Avengers and the Emperor race to DOOM island.

Though the Avengers are having second thoughts about the whole thing. Little bit heavy handed there, folks. Terrible analogy, Hawkeye. Philosophers, The Avengers are not. He crushes them pretty easily tbh. He could wipe them out or take over their minds again with the press of a button, but he decides not to. He's having second thoughts about this whole thing. He's bored.

Delaware seceding from the Union? Interesting development, though not plot relevant. In the end the minutiae leads DOOM to let The Avengers win, and Namor kills the Purple Man. Just kills the fuck out of him. He's a r*pist asshole so no one cares, plus he'll be back obviously.

Russia and Afghanistan go at it immediately, Apartheid is back (good job idiots,) and the US rearms missiles. Hawk is back on the menu and the good guys won, right? On the plus side, graffiti is back! Why would Doom bother with that? You can really feel the liberal bias at times like this.

Yeah the world immediately returns to its usual garbage fire state. Seems like a terrible mistake to me. Maybe a compromise might have yielded better results than 6 Americans who are unaffected by the wars and inequality making unilateral decisions. They never think about it again. It's hard to view Marvel as more than neoliberal brainrot at times, especially when a 'victory' is the world burning with the USA pointing missiles at everyone.

Oh, and Namor is pissed off at the surface dwellers, but that's business as usual. This is the DOOM I hope the MCU is able to capture - the dog forever chasing the car and his own worst enemy. A man that could bring so much good to the world if he weren't so petty, and, you know, a fascist. Not sure I'd be able to take it seriously with RDJ's dumb face, but we shall see. Emperor Doom is great and you should read it!

[dabiensworld]

Funny how you're hating on Charlie for "not fighting for Elden and Deborah" and patting Jon on the back for fighting for Deborah as if he didn't sign as early as March 2023 when the overhaul was far from happening 💀 Was he fighting for Deborah while receiving that fat Marvel check? 🤣

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/daredevil-born-again-casts-jon-bernthal-punisher-1235342229/amp/

Now who is stalker bitch.

I've been Charlie's fan since I watched Stardust in 2011 so i think it's much longer than you are, saw him in his other shows like Broadwalk Empire czy Treasure. Never said anything wrong about his skills or his appearance, always admiring him because I know he is amazing man irl.

If you love throw links then check this one

https://www.cbr.com/jon-bernthal-reportedly-turned-down-daredevil-born-again/

His return to Punisher role and Deb and Elden not returning to Karen and Foggy was announced on the same day.

You probably miss a very important thing that before DDBA Charlie and Vincent already debuted in the MCU in Spiderman, She Hulk, Hawkeye and Echo. Jon was before his debut and was supposed to be a small part of the series, because a separate production was planned for it. I doubt they discussed with him what the entire series would look like, other than just his arc. Also he wasn't in a position to set conditions because it wasn't his series. Original writers didn't just plan to kill Karen, they wanted to erased her from the universe and that would close the way for Deb's comeback to The Punisher show. Sure she could play different character, she would be amazing Rachel Alvez-Cole, but Jon and Deb want to be Frank and Karen, not Frank and Rachel.

Jon was vocal about how he disliked the script before the overhaul, he mentioned it at at least two conventions.

As a fan I have right to be pissed for the way things were trying to do, like they wanted to do the show without a slice of respect for fans, neither of netflix show or comics. I might sounds bitter about it, but that's my opinion, I stand by that and I'm not going to pretend everything was sweet and milky.

But since we are talking, have some decency to talk to me straight to my face, do not hide behind the anonymous mode. Like if you want to say something, I would gladly listen to it, but do it as you so you could have a responsibility for your words and actions. Because right now you are hiding behind anonymity like a fucking coward you are.

[s10127470]

The MCU Synergy Problem

It’s been a month since X-Men ‘97 came out, and just about everyone’s has already pointed what makes it so good.

-Staying true to the spirit of the original while still striving for its own identity

-Staying true to the characterization and depiction of the characters, and in some cases, improving on their characterization such as in the case of Jean Grey and especially Morph.

-Introducing new concepts, elements and characters that haven’t been explored in other adaptations yet.

-Having so many callbacks to the original while not coming off as nostalgia pandering.

-The animation and action! MY GOD! The animation and action!

Really, the only problem people have with this show is the weird love triangle between Rogue, Gambit and Magneto.

We already had to deal with the infamous love triangle Cyclops, Jean and Wolverine in the original, we did not need this.

Not only is this just unnecessary, it’s also just weird since in the original, it was never even implied that Rogue or Magneto had any sort of history between each other at all.

But here, they met during Rogue’s days with the Brotherhood. And I think when they met, Rogue was still a teenager.

During that time, the two grew an attraction towards each other and although it’s not explicitly stated, it is implied that they did….ya know…

Man….

Although I do enjoy Magneto, unlike a lot of other people, I can acknowledge that he’s kind of an awful person.

He’s a supremacist, a terrorist, a mass murderer, a violent, abusive psychopath, and a deadbeat father (well, when he used to be a father but we’ll get to that soon).

But never though that “groomer” would be an addition to that list as well.

All I can say is that….if this show took place in the modern day, Magneto ain’t beating any allegations.

But besides all that, another major positive people have with this show is just how….comic booky it feels, which is something that’s been lacking with a lot of Marvel content for the better of a decade now.

But before we get into that, let’s take a little history lesson.

Marvel was founded all the way back in 1939 by Martin Goodman….but it wasn’t called Marvel at first, it was actually called Timely Comics. But by 1951, the name of the brand was changed to Atlas Comics. 

During this era, the comics saw the introduction of several characters include The Human Torch (the android), The Whizzer, Miss America, The Destroyer, the original Vision and The Angel. 

But the two most notable characters introduced during this time were none other than the patriotic fighter of justice Captain America and the anti-heroic aquatic incel Namor the Sub-Mariner.

But Marvel would become the comic book powerhouse we know them as today starting in April of 1961, when Altas Comics was changed to be part of the newly-named Marvel Comics brand, helmed by the legendary duo of Stan Lee and Jack Kirby.

And over the course of the 1960s, Marvel would not only quickly become the biggest name in the comic industry (only being rivaled by who else, but DC), but also introduce many of their most recognizable stars.

This would include the likes of The Fantastic Four, The Incredible Hulk, Thor, Ant-Man and The Wasp, Iron Man, The X-Men, Daredevil, Doctor Strange, The Inhumans, Black Panther, The Silver Surfer, Black Widow and Hawkeye, and of course, the friendly neighborhood Spider-Man.

And in addition to tons of, in the words of Yogurt…..

Marvel would also see plenty of entries into the wider world of television. 

From the anthology series Marvel Super Heroes, to the acclaimed five-season run of The Incredible Hulk starring the legendary bodybuilder Lou Ferrigno, to the absolute meme-fest that was the 1967 Spider-Man cartoon.

But Marvel really found their footing amongst the public consensus in the 1990s, largely thanks to their animated shows.

We had X-Men ‘92, Spider-Man, Iron Man and Fantastic Four ‘94, and The Incredible Hulk ‘96. 

What made these shows stand out from their predecessors was that they strived to actually be adaptations of their respective comics.

Yeah, prior to these shows, all of the cartoons were largely villain-of-the-week shows with little to no continuity and apart from the characters, didn’t really take a whole lot from their source material.

But these shows actually went out of their way to actually adapt storylines from the comics, had ongoing plots, and much stronger characterization than before.

And even besides that, and of course, merchandising, Marvel was making quite the name for itself in the world of video games. Most notably the ones that were made by Capcom, which included the likes of The Punisher, X-Men: Children of the Atom, Marvel Super Heroes, X-Men: Mutant Apocalypse, and most famously of all, Marvel vs. Capcom.

Their status among the public consensus became even stronger when the 21st century rolled around.

This was largely thanks to the multiple films based on Marvel Comics properties that came out during the 2000s.

This included the likes of Sam Raimi’s Spider-Man trilogy, Ang Lee’s Hulk film, Tim Story’s Fantastic Four duology, Mark Steven Johnson’s Daredevil, and (Sirs whose names will not be mentioned here at all)’s X-Men series.

And apart from the merchandising (which was stronger than ever before thanks to the movies), the 2000s would also see some of the best video games based off the Marvel Comics and its IPs.

Marvel vs. Capcom 2: A New Age of Heroes, Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction, X-Men Legends and its sequel Rise of Apocalypse, Marvel Ultimate Alliance, and Spidey himself had a multiple of great games from this era.

From ones based off his cinematic outings, to ones based off his alternate universe escapades (Ultimate Spider-Man), to ones that featured the characters’ worst voice actor to date and was responsible giving us that famous depressed Spidey walking meme (Web of Shadows).

But everything would change for Marvel in 2008 with the release of….

This film would not only serve as the invincible armored Avenger’s first outing on the big screen, but would also be the start of one of the most well-known and influential pieces of media in Marvel’s entire history…..

The Marvel….Cinematic….Universe….

Just about everyone knows about the MCU.

It only not made the characters of Marvel even bigger than before (along with introducing some of the more lesser-known characters to the general public), but also helped popularized the concept of the shared cinematic universe in general.

The franchise has gone on to become one of, if not, the biggest and most successful film franchise in history and has left a major impact on the world of cinema and even Marvel themselves.

And unfortunately, not really for the better…..

Everyone has already pointed how much of a negative influence the MCU has had on the media we consume.

From the multiple failed attempts from studios who desperately wanted to trend chase by making their own cinematic universe, only for these attempts to end up being massive failures, to a lot of writing in many films post-Avengers having this quippy and observational sort-of-write that while beloved at first, has gone on to become seen as annoying and tiresome…..

But I really want to focus on the effect it’s had on Marvel as a whole.

To start this off, let’s look the place where this MCU effect has been the biggest problem…..and it’s ironically enough, the comics.

Ever since MCU began, Marvel has been adapting elements from the MCU into the comics, which became especially more apparent after the first Avengers film.

And while Marvel is no stranger to adapting elements from Marvel media outside the comics, it’s never been to this extent.

This synergy has seen major changes in the appearances and characterization in many of its characters, including…..

-Iron Man being portrayed as far more snarky and quippy than he previously was. At first, people were on board with this change, not only because people liked Robert Downey Jr’s portrayal, but also because during the mid-2000s, Iron Man was not a popular character. Not in the frankly overused and tired “nobody knew who Iron Man was prior to the release of the first film” way. But more in the sense that everyone hated him during that time. This was largely thanks to the absolute clusterfuck known as Civil War, which turned Iron Man into a full-on villain. Plus he was indirectly responsible for One More Day, aka the worst Spider-Man story ever written.

-Loki became far more heroic and started looking and acting more like his MCU counterpart. Hell, the Loki we know today isn’t the same one introduced back in the 1960s. That Loki died all the way back in 2010, and the one we know today is essentially his reincarnation. And this reincarnation was not only introduced in the exact same year that the first Thor movie released, but in the exact same month as well!

-Thor started acting far more goofy and air-headed like his MCU counterpart following Thor: Raganrok.

-Hawkeye started giving off what could be best described as “uwu small bean tired dad” in the Matt Fraction run, which started just 4 months after the first Avengers film.

-Agatha Harkness having her appearance changed into that of a much younger woman following Wandavision.

-Introducing the Ten Rings following Shang-Chi, and having the titular hero being the user of them instead of just being Bruce Lee like he had been for last 50 years.

-Literally everything involving the Guardians of the Galaxy.

Its also led to tons of the characters getting somewhat phased out like….

-Iron Fist, due to the poor reception of his MCU show and complaints towards him being a “white savior”.

-Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne, aka the original Ant-Man and the Wasp, who were also two of the five founding members of the Avengers. But despite that, neither of them appeared in the first Avengers film. And although it was a loose adaptation of The Ultimates, Hank and Janet were still present in that story as founding members of the titular team. Hell, Hank definitely has this the worst as he was killed off back in 2015, and was only recently brought back from the dead…..and he’s an old man now. I wonder why?

-Valkyrie, who was not only killed off permanently after Thor Ragnarök, but replaced with not one, but two characters very similar to the Valkyrie that appears in Ragnarök.

-The Inhumans, who had a major push in relevancy in order to promote their upcoming movie and TV show. But after the former got cancelled and the latter ended up being a massive flop, they ended up being banished to the shadow realm and barely acknowledged anymore. Also, the reason for their push plays into a later point.

-Quicksilver, which also plays into that later point I just mentioned.

-Black Panther, who Marvel seems to be somewhat edging out in the comics literally because of Chadwick Boseman’s passing.

And worse of all, retcons……such as…..

-Quicksilver and The Scarlet Witch being revealed to have never been Magneto’s children nor mutants at all….shortly after the release of Age of Ultron.

-Shang Chi’s biracial heritage being rewritten to have him being fully Asian shortly after his film.

-Nebula, in addition to being made to look and act more like the movie version, also was revealed to be Thanos’ adopted daughter and Gamora’s sister….just like in the movies. 

-Ms. Marvel being revealed to have been mutant all along instead of an Inhuman…..just months before the release of The Marvels.

-Thor and the other Asgardians are not mythical beings, but actually aliens who were mistaken for gods by humanity….who just so happen to use magic (yeah this is a weird one because it constantly keeps flip-flopping between one or the other).

-Nick Fury being revealed to have had an illegitimate son who looks exactly like the MCU Nick Fury, who himself was based on the Ultimate Universe version of Nick Fury, who was African-American and modeled after Samuel L. Jackson. This is really weird because if they wanted a Samuel L. Jackson inspired Nick Fury, they could’ve easily just waited for the 2015 Secret Wars event and just had the Ultimate Nick Fury be one of the surviving inhabitants of the Ultimate Universe to be brought over to the 616 Universe along with Miles Morales, The Maker, and that son of Wolverine everyone forgot the existence of (even Marvel themselves!).

So yeah, as you can see, this is quite a problem.

Marvel has essentially been trying to make the comics resemble the movies rather than the other way around.

Which has not only gotten annoying and tiresome, but it’s also pretty disingenuous.

I mean, you’re pulling from a source material that has literal decades of content and lore to use, and now you’re actively trying change and contradict that lore just because of a series of movies adapting said source material?

This is obviously because they’re trying to appeal to new Marvel readers who came right from the movies.

But for some reason, Marvel seems to believe that general audiences have never heard the word “adaptation” before.

But this isn’t just an issue for the comics, it’s also an issue for…..pretty much every medium Marvel can be represented in.

For over a decade, Marvel has been essentially trying to push the MCU as the default everything.

Anything Marvel related: it all has to be similar to the MCU and barely anything else. And if it can, just utilize any of the comics written post 2010.

It’s pretty much the same problem that a lot of recent Spider-Man media suffers from.

When they’re adapting stuff, it’s almost always from the cartoons, Brian Michael Bendis’ Ultimate Spider-Man and Dan Slott’s run on Amazing Spider-Man.

And this has often come to the detriment of many of the non-MCU projects released during the 2010s.

Three of the best examples of this I could think of were Avengers Assemble, Square Enix’s Avengers, and Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite. 

Avengers Assemble is famous for being the Marvel cartoon that was only created just to ride on the success of the first Avengers film.

But in spite of this, it was apparent during the first two season that this show was striving to have its own identity. Specifically utilizing some of the lesser-known faces of Marvel.

But as the series went on, the MCU got bigger and bigger. And as a result, the show started to get bogged down by MCU synergy.

From having storylines that were obviously done to tie into whatever movie came out not that long ago, to even changing characters appearances in order to better reflect their MCU counterparts.

The best example of the latter was with Falcon, who was a member of the main cast.

During the first three seasons, he actually stood out from the rest of the team visually as his outfit wasn’t trying to emulate the MCU.

It wasn’t emulating the comics either because I think that outfit of his was wholly original to this show.

But during season 4, Falcon ends up going through a time warp. And when he comes out, he’s been aged up from a young college-aged man to a grown man around the Avengers’ ambiguous age range and is wearing an outfit similar to his MCU counterpart.

Now we come to Square Enix’s Avengers.

My God…..was there anything this game did remotely right?

Or at least competently?

And one of the many flaws of this game was its roster.

And this actually plays into another major point on how stifling MCU synergy is.

Ever since the first Avengers movie, whenever the titular Avengers appear in just about anything, they’re almost always shown having the same roster.

That being Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, Black Widow and Hawkeye.

Sometimes there will be other members like Falcon, Ant-Man, Wasp, Black Panther, Vision and Captain Marvel, but that’s because those guys are also major names in the MCU as well.

Like for God’s sake, switch it up a bit! 

For the next major thing the Avengers appear in, how about we have a roster based on like…..

The Heroes Return roster, or the Hickman roster, or the Englehart roster, or the New Avengers roster, or the Stern roster, or the West Coast roster, or even the Classic roster!

But back to the Avengers game, they didn’t even commit to that never-changing roster I just mentioned!

When the game released, the Avengers video game had Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk and Black Widow as the main Avengers roster until Ms. Marvel joined up.

Yeah, Hawkeye didn’t appear as a part of the roster until his own DLC with Kate Bishop!

As for the other additions to the roster, we had Spider-Man, Black Panther, The Winter Soldier and the Jane Foster Thor.

Yeah, when looking at this game as an adaptation of the comics (which it barely was), the roster is absolutely pathetic when you look at the INSANE amount of members the Avengers have had over the decades.

And when looking at this game as an adaptation of the MCU, it didn’t even commit to that!

This is even more of the case when you look at the list of characters they initially had planned, but they obviously had to drastically cut all that for the sake of time constraints.

Hell, if you want to see something really sad, just look at the villain roster.

Over the 3 years this game was around, it only gave us 4 (yes 4) villains.

M.O.D.O.K., Taskmaster, The Abomination and Klaw….

Yep! Just these four schmucks!

No Red Skull, no Mandarin, no Baron Zemo, no Leader, no Ultron, no Kang the Conqueror, no Absorbing Man, no Wrecking Crew, no Enchantress, no Whirlwind, no Crimson Dynamo, no Circus of Crime….

Hell, they don’t even have Loki, the most popular and well-known Avengers villain!

It’s even more sadder when you consider the DLCs, i.e Spider-Man, who despite having undoubtedly the most well-known rogues gallery in all of Marvel, not one of them appear at all in his DLC!

In the wise words of a young redheaded YouTuber who likes to talk about Spidey….

“How easily you got showed up by Fortnite!”

If you want more detail on the history of this game and what went wrong, I suggest watching Matt McMuscles’ What Happened video on the game, but basically the reason that the game was the way that it was due to the laziness and apathy of Square Enix, the inexperience and slight incompetence of Crystal Dynamics, having WAY too many cooks in the kitchen (i.e., they worked with five studios, all of which were located in different parts of the world), and most of all, the utter greed of Marvel.

And funnily enough, this game ties into my next talking point…

Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite! The fourth and possibly final game in the series….and is regarded by just about everyone to be the weakest game as well.

Just like Avengers, one of (if not) the biggest criticisms of this game was the roster.

Infinite had a roster of about 36 characters, having the second smallest roster in the series’ history, only surpassing Clash of Heroes’ 15.

This was quite the surprise when compared to the previous game, 3’s 48 characters and especially 2: A New Age’s 56.

As for the roster itself, it was made up of both veteran characters and new characters.

Returning from the previous game, we had Spider-Man, Captain America, Hulk, Iron Man, Thor, Doctor Strange, Dormammu, Ghost Rider, Nova and Rocket Raccoon.

Also returning were two faces that hadn’t been seen since 2: Venom and Thanos.

As for the new characters, we had Captain Marvel, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Black Panther, Gamora and Ultron.

Yeah not exactly the most interesting roster.

And I’m sure many of you noticed by now, there’s something notable characters missing from the roster.

Namely the X-Men, their villains and Doctor Doom, all of whom have been staples of the franchise since the beginning.

And there’s a reason for that….

A very, scummy reason….

I already mentioned this in my X-Men: The Next Mutation post, but it does bare repeating her.

As the MCU became more popular, Marvel became focusing on pushing the Avengers as their premiere superhero team, with the Fantastic Four and X-Men essentially being dethroned.

Along with that, their relevance in the comics notably began to degraded, and barely began making appearances in media outside the comics.

The reason for this, apart from Marvel focusing on cashing in on the Avengers, was because despite still owning the overall rights for the FF and X-Men (which, why wouldn’t they?), their film rights were still owned by 20th Century Fox.

Since Fox was pretty much a rival company to Marvel until Disney bought them out, Marvel basically saw any form of FF and X-Men representation as free-marketing for Fox.

So they decided to essentially not to allow any FF or X-Men related characters to appear in any media outside the comics and even reduced their overall presence as well.

Which is why Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch and the other non X-Men mutants were retconned into not being mutants, why Quicksilver himself has been sort of been an afterthought in recent years, why the Inhumans were pushed so hard, and why the FF and X-Men characters weren’t in this game.

Plus the justifications and excuses for this from the developers are absolutely hilarious, because you can just tell that they’re lying through their teeth while being held up at gunpoint by a bunch of Marvel executives.

Oh yeah, let’s bring up the other biggest elephant in the room and want led to Square Enix developing Avengers.

After Infinite came out and got quickly abandoned by the player-base, many people at Capcom have come out to reveal just how awful it was working with Marvel and Disney.

They weren’t just pushy with who and who couldn’t be in the roster. 

They were also pushy about how the characters that would be in the roster would be portrayed (specifically wanting them to heavily resemble their MCU iterations) and even changing their themes to be exactly like the MCU ones. 

Hell, this pushiness was so bad that for the trailers, they did not want the Marvel characters to be depicted as losing!

This was also an issue back during 3 as well, but it was essentially amplified during this game.

This really shows just how petty Marvel really is….

They’re willing to ignore and downplay the existence of two major players of their brand that people have loved for decades and were created by the two men them helped make the company they are today.

They’re unwilling to compromise and it has to be their way or the highway.

And this pettiness eventually came to bite them in the ass as Capcom’s statements about working with them eventually reached many of the other big video game developers.

And soon enough, when Marvel was trying to find someone to develop Avengers, none of the big game developers wanted anything to do with it!

Eventually, they did find a developer with Square Enix, who already had experience working with Disney via Kingdom Hearts.

It’s actually ironically hilarious that the heads at Marvel believed all three of these projects would actually be successful because of the MCU synergy, but they all ended up being flops because of said MCU synergy!

But this desire for MCU synergy has not only negatively affected non-MCU project of this time, but even ones that either came out before this desire or….never came out at all.

I’m sure many of you remember The Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes.

This show was essentially a love letter to the Silver Age comics of Marvel  and strived to be an near-faithful adaptation of many classic and even recent Avengers storylines, while also having its own unique spin on it.

Hell, in some cases, the EMH versions of these storylines are actually better than the originals, especially in the case of Secret Invasion. 

Sadly, the show got cancelled in 2012 after 2 seasons and 52 episodes…and to this day, EMH probably has one of the dumbest and scummiest reasons for cancellation in television animation history.

The reason this show was cancelled because Marvel wanted to replace with it a show that was more in-line with the MCU, aka Avengers Assemble.

Yep! Not low ratings. Not bad critical reception. Not budgetary reasons. Hell, not even bad toy sales, which was a major reason for a lot of action cartoons around this time getting the axe!

And it doesn’t get much better from here.

During the 2010s, there were a lot of promising Marvel projects that never saw the light of the day, with two of the most notable being the animated Deadpool series and Marvel Era.

Following the success of 2016 film, FX and Marvel Television decided to collaborate to created an animated series based on the merc with the mouth, with Donald Glover (yes, that Donald Glover) being one of the main showrunners, alongside his brother Stephen.

However, the series was cancelled almost a year within its development, with the main reason being that Marvel wasn't particularly big on the vision that the Glovers had for this series.

And apart Donald speculating racism on Marvel’s part (which given that Jeph Loeb was meant to be an executive producer on this series, that possibly could be the case), another possible factor for the show’s cancellation was because of Deadpool’s connection with the X-Men, and during this show’s production, Marvel was still in their “the X-Men don’t matter anymore” phase.

And it really sucks because the pitch animation for this was really good and made this seem like it was going to be a very fun show.

New we come to Marvel Era.

Out of all the cancelled projects, this was perhaps the most interesting.

Marking a first for their animated shows, this would’ve been an anthology series released in 2014 to commemorate the 75th anniversary of Marvel Comics.

It was going to be produced by Powerhouse Animation (best known for Netflix’s Castlevania series) and it was gonna have 7 stories, with each one being themed around a different decade and focusing on a different character.

There would’ve been a 40s story focusing on Captain America, a 50s story focusing on either Wolverine or Namor the Sub-Mariner, a 60s story focusing on the X-Men, a 70s story focusing on The Heroes for Hire, a 80s story focusing on The Punisher, a 90s story focusing on the aforementioned Deadpool, and a 2000s story focusing on Captain Marvel.

This honestly seemed like it was going to be a really great show, which was enhanced by the absolutely gorgeous animation of the pitch trailer.

Unfortunately, Powerhouse announced that the project was cancelled because it wasn’t what Marvel Television were focusing on.

Which is code for: Marvel didn’t want it because it wasn’t MCU adjacent….

To wrap this up, I just wanted to bring up the reason I made this in the first place.

Over the last few weeks, there was a leak for a upcoming episode of X-Men ‘97, which showed a shot of Captain America’s shield.

And this led many people to somewhat groan, believing that this was yet another case of MCU synergy. 

And although this was proven to be false, it really does speak volume with how much influence the MCU has had.

Although it has brought lot of Marvel’s star characters into the mainstream, the MCU has shaped and changed them so much, that it seems like they can no longer exist as characters who have existed for literal DECADES.

They always have to be associated with a film franchise that has existed for about 1/6 of their existence in fiction.

But I think the biggest takeaway to all this is that this constant MCU synergy kinda shows a lack of reverence for Marvel’s legacy.

Look at this merchandising from the 2010s and 2020s....

In most of this merchandise, the character roster featured is almost always the same.

The Avengers, Doctor Strange, Spider-Man and the Web Warriors, and the Guardians of the Galaxy.

The Inhumans were also apart of this roster until, as I mentioned earlier, got banished to the Shadow Realm....

Occasionally you'll get some of the other cosmic characters like Nova, She-Hulk and some of the street-level heroes like Daredevil, Elektra, Ghost Rider, and The Heroes for Hire.

But those are few and far between.

But other than that, it's largely the four I mentioned earlier.

Because they're the main faces of the MCU, and as we all know, everything has to be related to the MCU in some way....

But now let's compare that to some Marvel merchandising from the mid-to-late 2000s and early 2010s....

Upon seeing this, you can tell that there’s a far greater sense of appreciation for Marvel.

This merchandising pulls from nearly every corner of the Marvel Universe you can think off and features characters from the heavy hitters, to the borderline obscure.

Plus it still heavily features the Fantastic Four and X-Men characters, who, may I remind you, spent a good chunk of the 2010s having their presence greatly reduced and their existence constantly threatened or denied because of movie rights!

All in all, Marvel really needs to stop the MCU synergy.

In spite of what they think, it’s clearly done nothing but harm and stifle many potentially good (even great) projects.

Not only that, but it’s also gonna start harming the Marvel brand itself with how homogenized they’ve made everything and the rapidly increasing lack of interest in the MCU.

Plus its also brought out the worst in Marvel.

From cancelling projects for stupid reasons, to showing a lack of respect for the legacy they’ve build, to literally being difficult to work with because of how they want everything to be their way.

But things do seem to be looking up a bit….

There’s been the multiple of Spider-Man media of the last few years , which has been one of the few Marvel projects that aren’t bogged down by MCU synergy.

Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur also ended being shockingly really good, and although it does have some MCU synergy, it’s pretty minor.

And now we have X-Men ‘97.

It does appear that there’s some kind of movement in Marvel to actually start making projects again that aren’t being made to be a glorified MCU circle-jerks.

And hopefully, this could led to some really unique and interesting projects, specifically for this year.

Since remember, this year marks the 85th anniversary of Marvel Comics, so that’s pretty big!

But then again, their corporate overlord had an utter embarrassment of a year for their centennial….

And Marvel themselves also contributed to that as well….

[james-stark-the-writer]

so, i just finished What If...? S02.

now i was coming at this as somebody who thinks What If...? S01 is one of the worst things Marvel has ever made, it lands at the bottom of my MCU tierlist (What If...? S02 would go right between Defenders and Iron Fist S01), i hate like the majority of it, i would say like i hate 90% of it. it's genuinely insufferable and looks ugly as shit and the writing sucks, it lacked imagination despite its literal premise, and took as few risks as possible. it's genuinely awful. but i thought similar things about Loki S01 and S02 surprised me quite a lot so i was hoping that S02 was a redemption arc for What If...? as well and. turns out it was. this was a lot of fun. nothing less than a monumental improvement over the first season, even if there are still parts of it I heavily dislike like all the references to the movies and just how much Marvel is up Peggy Carter's asshole. but besides that? genuinely incredible stuff. S02E06 is one of the greatest things Marvel has ever made, and what every episode of this show should have been, bold and imaginative. gave me chills multiple fucking times, got me to the point of crying over it. genuinely transcendental. this season started out ROUGH but it really got much better as it went on and i think it averages out to one of the better things Marvel has made. It certainly no Ms. Marvel or Hawkeye or She-Hulk or even WandaVision, but it's way better than Moon Knight and Falcon and the Winter Soldier and Loki S01.

anyway, here's my thoughts and some notes on every episode. under the cut bc it's a long post and i have a lot to say.

episode 1:

episode 2:

episode 3:

episode 4:

episode 5:

episode 6:

episode 7 and 8:

episode 9 and final thoughts:

[animebw]

So I've been stewing a bit with the whole concept of "MCU Fatigue" after my disappointment with The Marvels, and I think I've come to a realization.

See, most people when they shit on the modern MCU act like they're been putting out tons of terrible stuff. But looking at their track record, that's not actually true. In fact, I'd argue that the majority of their Phase 4 and 5 output has still been above average. The only real misses I'd count are FATWS, Dr. Strange 2, The Marvels, and maybe What If if I was feeling particularly uncharitable (and I guess Secret Invasion, but the bad response kept me away from that one so I've never watched it myself). Other than that, Marvel's still putting out a lot of good stuff.

The problem is they're not putting out a lot of great stuff.

Like, we need to take a step back and realize just how fucking insane the MCU's track record used to be. They didn't just put out good movies on a regular basis that put every other franchise to shame, they regularly released some of the most iconic superhero blockbusters of all time. They cranked out all-time classics on such a consistent basis that at this point, at least half of the top 20 greatest superhero movies of all time list would be taken up by MCU projects, maybe more. That's how they built trust with the general audience; not just consistency, but the promise of greatness. People flocked to the MCU not just because there was a near guarantee of a well-made fun time at the cinema, but because that was a strong probability you were going to see something truly spectacular.

Seriously, just look at the studio's track record through Phase 2 and 3. Iron Man 3, Captain America 2 and 3, the first two Guardians movies, Thor Ragnorak, Black Panther, Infinity War and Endgame... you could argue that over half of their movie output from this period was unqualified home runs. And sure, maybe Thor 2 was a dud and Avengers 2 was disappointing, but it didn't matter because there was always the promise of another masterpiece waiting in the wings. People weathered the occasional misstep because they could trust the MCU to always find its way back to greatness.

But now consider: how many all-time bangers can you name from Phases 4 and 5?

Like, I can name a few. Wandavision, Black Panther 2, Guardians 3, Spider-Man 3, maybe Ms. Marvel if I pretend episode 5 doesn't exist (and I've heard Loki season 2 was also great, but that's another one I haven't seen yet). But the ratio of Big Deal Events to Just Another Marvel Thing has gotten much steeper. Between the movies and the Disney+ series, Marvel's cranking out more stuff than ever, but it hasn't been cranking out landmarks any faster than it used to. It's just shoving a lot more padding between the properties that really set the world on fire. And it's training the audience, unintentionally, to no longer associate the MCU with guaranteed smash successes every other weekend.

And I still like most of the MCU's current output! But I don't love it as much as some of its older stuff. Black Widow and Shang-Chi are good, but not quite great. Eternals I will defend to my dying breath, but it was destined for cult classic status. Love and Thunder I would argue is actually pretty fantastic, fuck you fight me, and Quantummania is fine, you guys, but I wouldn't die defending them the way I would, say, Iron Man 3. And as much as I enjoyed Hawkeye, Moon Knight and She-Hulk, you can only watch so much Pretty Good TV before it starts to feel like a chore.

This deluge of content hasn't resulted in tons of more Great Marvel Stuff. It's just resulted in tons of more Good, Okay, and Not That Great Actually Marvel Stuff. It's resulted in audiences feeling like you can't trust Marvel to regularly crank out classics that change the way you view superhero media. And it turns out, it gets a lot harder to justify spending so much time on such an overstuffed time-sink of a franchise when it can't guarantee you a steady stream of masterpieces on a regular basis.

Especially with so much more of it coming out now in such a painfully short timespan. Even in Marvel's busiest years, they used to max out at three movies per year and a couple spinoffs like the Netflix shows that you didn't need to watch to feel up to date. You went out to the movies a couple times a year and were basically guaranteed a good movie every time, and that was it. Now, though, with the Disney+ content, it feels like a constant battle to not fall behind, to keep up with tons of stuff you're just kind of enjoying to justify getting to the increasingly few nuggets of true gold. This stuff would need a track record just as good as the Phase 2/3 days to justify sitting through so much of it, and it just... doesn't. And the second you drop off from exhaustion, it's already roaring ahead and leaving you with too much to ever reasonably catch up on if you're not prepared for a couple days of heavy bingeing.

The shared universe model is fucking hard. Every studio's failed attempt to copy Marvel's playbook is a testament to that. The fact it even maintained its cultural domination as long as it did is nothing short of a miracle. Because it turns out, even being consistently good isn't enough to maintain the level of trust and engagement necessary for such a long haul. You need to be consistently excellent. You need audiences to come away from every other event singing your praises as the new gold standard of blockbuster cinema. And the second you can't maintain that standard anymore, all that goodwill slowly bleeds out as more and more people decide that the effort it takes to keep up with everything is no longer worth the reward.

Does the MCU recover from this? I don't know. At this point, what it needs to do more than anything is slow the fuck down instead of overloading audiences with too many shows and movies to keep up with. Maybe it's not the dominant cultural force anymore, but with a little patience and willingness to sacrifice quantity for quality, it can at least re-establish itself as a franchise worth sticking around for. Marvel used to be special; with a little luck, maybe it can be again.

[nostalgia-tblr]

For anyone keeping track (no one), I have started watching the first Avengers film (MCU not the 60s TV show) but only while eating lunch so it's gonna take a while. So far Nick Fury has been assembling the Avengers (the film was initially released in the UK as Avengers Assemble - because of that 60s TV show - but it's not called that on D+ so I'm calling it what the Americans called it, just FYI) even though there's not yet anything for them to avenge as That Suit Guy (j/k I know his name too!!) isn't dead yet, and now they're on THE FUCKING VALIANT FROM DR WHO and I assume we're gonna continue assembling for a while as they're not all there yet.

MEANWHILE Loki (who is neither an alligator nor a woman in this???) is in a SECRET UNDERGROUND LAIR with a bunch of his stans who are... idk something technobabble that involves irridium and anti-protons. He is there looking for the tesseract on behalf of ???? who I know will be revealed 47 films from now as... no, wait, it wasn't, was it? That was just announced on a website or something? So it could be LITERALLY ANYONE. The Avengers (in-progress) also seem to be after that thing, but I have already forgotten why everyone is wanting it, assuming it was mentioned (it probably was).

Thor hasn't shown up yet, but Arrows Hawkeye is working as a Loki Stan and there's Steve Rogers and THE HULK and The Only Woman One, whose power is that she's a Cold War assassin (??) and I think this one is the film where she gets called a cunt (!) and honestly I am not sure which of the men she's getting officially shipped with, I think Arrows Hawkeye though? Fairly sure, as the alternative is that a man and a woman like each other as people but not in a lusty way, which would never happen obviously. (Hey I may ship mostly het* pairings but I don't always like it!)

Based on the Valiant (if u don't know who she is get da hell out of here!) I am guessing that the film ends with Loki dying in Thor's arms romantically but then I remembered that I know it can't because one of Loki got kidnapped from... either the end of this film or the start of the next one or POSSIBLY just from a later film's time-travel bit (???) but like... maybe they've edited this film secretly and I was right after all? But nobody else has watched it on Disney + recently so nobody knows yet? IT COULD HAPPEN.

Not sure what to make of this film so far, a lot's been going on yet also not much has been going on, and the one I like best so far (Suit Guy) is gonna die (NOT EVEN IN THOR'S ARMS ROMANTICALLY) and god Iron Man really hasn't aged well now that we have that one tech billionaire being a twat in public all the time to remind us what such people tend to be like. WHERE IS THOR????

*I say het but everyone in everything is bisexual, I know this because I thought of it and announced it on tumblr and will now say "I don't make the rules" to make it an objective FACT. I don't make the rules!!!

[litcityblues]

Loki Season 2 & What Should Have Happened With The MCU

I think it’s safe to say that at this point, the MCU has hit a rough patch- but the weirdly frustrating thing about navigating said rough patch is that a lot of the content they’ve put out has not been bad. In fact, some of it has been good to downright excellent, but the problem is that there’s been way too much of it.

Loki is firmly in the ‘downright excellent’ category. You actually see some of that old MCU magic at play here. There’s a unique visual style. Good characters. It’s obviously a key piece of the multiverse saga, but the frustrating part is that they didn’t really treat it like that until the end of the second season where Loki’s position in the multiverse becomes very apparent indeed. (Also that there gets to be a Multiverse full stop.) Leaving aside the Kang speculation for awhile, I think it’s worth looking at everything that’s come out since Endgame and really assessing what was necessary and what wasn’t. I think (and you won’t convince me of anything else) that a firehose of content was what undid them here. When it becomes a chore to keep track of whatever is going on in the MCU, you’re going to see diminishing returns and that’s exactly what has happened. 

So, if I’m an agent of the TVA and going back in time to try and fix this, this is what I’d probably do:

Far From Home: Keep

Black Widow: Keep

Shang-Chi: Ditch- though you can make a case for doing a release purely aimed at the Asian markets and/or making this an Iron Fist sequel where you clean up the obviously problematic things– but this movie was decent, but wasn’t really an ‘event’ for me.

Eternals: Ditch- I don’t mind the Eternals and it feels like an unusual departure and an attempt at trying something a little different for Marvel, so points for that. But without a plan of how to integrate them into the wider narrative, it feels like a wasted opportunity. (And they hinted at that with the Black Knight/Harry Styles cameo at the end- and then nothing happened with either of those characters as far as I can tell. Plus people keep rightly pointing out that there's a GIANT HAND coming out of the ocean that NO ONE in the MCU has mentioned since.)

No Way Home: Keep

Multiverse of Madness: Keep

Love and Thunder: Ditch- Something’s gotta go?

Wakanda Forever: Keep

Quantumania: Ditch- If the Eternals were trying something new with no integration into the wider narrative, Quantumania had the opposite problem. It was a chapter of the wider narrative that completely subsumed anything entertaining about the film. This should have been Avatar for the MCU.

GoTG 3: Keep

The Marvels: Keep- but I saw some decent criticism that pointed out that it’s hard to root for a character who is so damn powerful. Hopefully, the introduction of The X-Men gives them the opportunity to explore some storylines.

WandaVision: Keep

The Falcon and Winter Soldier: Should Have Been A Movie

Loki: Keep (obviously)

What If?: Keep

Hawkeye: Keep

Moon Knight: Should have been introduced somewhere else, but I appreciate the concept and how they portrayed it, but I’d say Ditch.

Ms. Marvel: Keep

She-Hulk: Keep

Secret Invasion: Should Have Been A Movie

Loki 2: Keep (obviously)

So, you’d go from 21 projects between streaming and movies down to 14 and suddenly the fire hose becomes a bit more manageable to me. I would have also led off with Loki as soon as practicable after Endgame so you could lay down the seeds of Kang (or whomever) and establish the Multiversity of it all. Wandavision does lead into Dr. Strange 2 quite nicely and the Spiderman movies tie in quite nicely as well with Dr. Strange and then the Spider-verse uniting with Andrew Garfield and Toby McGuire in No Way Home. Making Loki more of the centerpiece and turning down the firehose of content would have made the impact of the end of Season 2 land more impactfully I think.

Whatever you do- if you're moving into a Multiverse Saga then everything should have some connective tissue to that central concept and a lot of it doesn't-- some of that is probably down to the business of movies-- you're going to have some sequels, but again. 'less is more'.

(I am a big believer in the idea of ‘less is more’ for the MCU– but fight me in the comments if you don’t like what I’ve pruned from the timeline.)

But, Loki Season 2: The story picks up from Season 1- where Sylvie (Sophia Di Martino) has killed He Who Remains and thrown the TVA and the timeline into chaos. Without He Who Remains guarding the sacred timeline, the branches are growing out of control and Loki (Tom Hiddleston) has been afflicted with time-slipping that he cannot (at least at first)- but he and Mobius (Owen Wilson) go to TVA Technician Ouroboros (Ke Huy Quan) to try and figure out what's going on with Loki and prevent the Time Loom from going critical and exploding- which Loki sees in a vision of the future before he time slips again.

Loki, Mobius, and their allies in the TVA decide they need to find Sylvie-- but it turns out that's not the answer to their problems either, so they try and track down Miss Minutes (Tara Strong) and Renslayer (Gugu Mbatha-Raw) and find another of He Who Remains variants, Victor Timely (Jonathan Majors) instead. Everything keeps coming back to the Loom. They keep trying and trying to save it but eventually, Loki realizes that there is only one thing he can do to save his friends and, perhaps more importantly, reality itself: he goes out into the Loom and it explodes anyway, but Loki keeps going, realizing that his abilities can rejuvenate the branches and, rearranges them into a tree-like structure and becomes not the God of Mischief, but the God of Stories, overseeing the branches alone at the end of time.

The TVA dedicates itself to finding the variants of who remains across the timeline and stopping them and Mobius retires from the TVA.

Overall: Satisfying and perfect and a great way to wrap up this character's journey through the MCU, Loki Season 2 should be the capstone to Tom Hiddleston's role. Don't bring him back. Don't reboot him. Don't. Do. Anything. Else. (Unless it's very well-written and MAKES SENSE in terms of your larger narrative.) I love the sets in this show. I love the color palette of this show. I love the cast in this show-- Jonathan Majors gives an excellent performance as Victor TImely. Ke Huy Quan is a perfect addition to the cast as OB and they bring the story to a close perfectly.

However- as I said above, if Marvel had slowed down the fire hose of content and committed to investing in fewer shows with higher quality writing/sets/casts, etc- I think they'd be in a lot better position. That's not to say that both seasons of Loki aren't important in the current scheme of the MCU-- they obviously are, but because of the firehose of content that Marvel unleashed, they are decidedly not the appointment viewing that they should have been. It's not quite as frustrating to think about as it is when you watch Secret Invasion which was a criminal waste of both Samuel L. Jackson and Olivia Colman and should have been a movie, but there's some frustration here. This show is very, very good. It got robbed of some of its flowers because Marvel decided that more is more, when in fact, less would have been better.

My Grade: **** out of **** One of the best MCU shows hands down. Could have been even better though.

[quietfounder]

Everyone remember this series?

This was the first Marvel live-action show I actually got into.

I know it’s been almost four years since it was canceled but I’ve been hoping it’ll eventually be revived since it’s streaming on Disney+ and it has continued shows from other networks. 

Although, if it does end up on there, I’ll have to consider what it’ll mean for the series in the long run if it streams exclusively on D+ because based on most of their marvel stuff, they don’t really “do” seasons:

WandaVision (9 episodes)

The Falcon and the Winter Soldier (6 episodes)

Hawkeye (6 episodes)

Moon Knight (6 episodes)

Ms. Marvel (6 episodes)

She-Hulk: Attorney at Law (9 episodes)

But it’s not always like this with Loki (renewed for season 2) and What If...? (renewed for seasons 2 and 3) being examples so I guess I’ll have to wait and see for their future content.

However, if that does happen I think we have to consider how the MCU has this tendency to have everything connected and most of the shows I listed are just setting up for something else (ex. movies) and I would like very much if Cloak & Dagger remained its own thing, outside of a few references.

If not on Disney+, I can see Cloak & Dagger continuing on Hulu with it already streaming there. 

It could work they probably would have drop Marvel from their name in order to continue, like with Hit-Monkey though that was under different circumstances I think. I seriously thought that series was canceled until I heard it got renewed for season 2 this year. 

Or maybe Cloak & Dagger could come back as an animated series. I mean Aubrey Joseph and Olivia Holt voiced their characters in the Spider-Man 2017 series so it could happen. 

[jovenshires]

If Spencer is Spider-Man, do you have any ideas on who in the Smosh crew would be certain Marvel heroes?

okay SO. i have been thinking ab this a little bit, bc i would like to expand the spidey au universe to other heroes. BUT im not gonna talk ab what im gonna do with the spidey au (spoilers lads <3). instead im gonna talk ab vibes. who do i think these people could be hypothetically! there's like one spoiler in here but otherwise none of this has anything to do with the canon for my spidey-spencer-verse.

also i wanna say before i get into this - DISCLAIMER: idk jack shit ab comics and i don't keep up with mcu anymore so. we're flying blind baby! i am making shit up as i go!

amanda: @blandview and i talked ab this and i think we came to a few conclusions: either she'd be black widow yelena OR she'd be an anti-hero of some kind. think elektra, think black cat... yeah she's got options.

angela: okay blandview also suggested this one: kate bishop hawkeye. we are taking no criticisms at this time.

anthony: god...... i could go so many directions but my heart longs to make him a villain/anti-hero. he's so morally gray-coded imo. magneto perhaps. other options are loki and wolverine.

arasha: there's so many options here too but i kind of like miss america for her i think!!

chanse: i mean he's miles morales. spencer is peter parker and he is miles morales end of sentence. BUT if i had to pick a non-spidey option, probably wiccan. i wanna give him magic powers so sue me!! oh or maybe iron lad. those are my faves for him

courtney: SO captain marvel coded for many many reasons. like i don't even think i need to explain this one tbh

damien: okay im thinking of making him part of the hero verse in the spidey fic so i am seriously considering this one... on the one hand like. cyclops. he is so classic x-men to me. daredevil could be fun and sexy for him. oh OR the hulk bc he's bruce banner-coded.

ian: so ive got some ops here: to match anthony. professor x. obviously. OR ant-man. do you see my vision. he looks like that.

jackie: scarlet witch was my first thought! mostly bc i could see her tearing apart the universe for love tbh (i did not watch wandavision but that trope sticks with me)

keith: does keith even want to be part of this. no probably not. maybe gambit or star-lord?? i literally cannot picture him doing this non-reluctantly and that's clouding my vision i think DKNGKNGK

kimmy: specifically jane forester thor perhaps. dazzler or jubilee could be fun for her too!!

noah: out of Everyone, noah is voted most likely to be deadpool imo. i could also see him as quicksilver bc little shit (affectionate)

shayne: i mean. thats captain america. look at him. once again i am done speaking thats it.

tommy: god... tommy is the toughest one. he's so normie in a hero world to me. like 'same shit as always' going to work while everyone out there being insane. angel?? he's also kinda x-men coded to me. otherwise....... winter soldier? i'll be real i got Nothin for that one chief.

anyway hope this was not too much of a disaster love ya bye xxx

[dvaderstark]

My opinion on the Multiverse Saga so far.

So I know that Phase 4 was incredibly divisive and with Quantumania’s reception Phase 5 has already started the same trend. I don’t know if I am just easily pleasable but here are just quick thoughts on the Multiverse Saga.

WandaVision- Outside of having mild issues with the finale, great show. 9/10

Falcon and the Winter Soldier- Loved Walker. I mean I liked other things but by himself I loved this show. I thought the Flag Smashers were interesting but not too sympathetic in the grand deal. 8/10

Loki- Fantastic show. Enjoyed every character. HWR is fantastic in the finale. Favorite D+ show so far. 10/10

Black Widow- Fairly standard MCU movie. I liked Natasha and her family, Yelena especially. Also while I was not outraged, Taskmaster was boring. 6.5/10

What If?- Outside of some continuity issues, namely I am still confused as to how Thanos got 5 stones in 2015 in the Infinity Ultron episode and thinking that the Thor grows up as an only child episode could have gone in a more interesting way than he becomes a party fratbro douche, I really enjoyed this show. Hyped for the Tony and Gamora episode once Season 2 happens. 8/10

Shang-Chi- Just rewatched it last night. Fantastic, one of the best origin movies in the franchise. 9/10.

Eternals- It’ll have to take a rewatch, but I remember liking this movie in theaters. Maybe it was just because the sense of scale was impressive and made it an experience but I enjoyed it. Also some of the characters were great (Druig, Makkari, Thena, Gilgamesh) but it was kind of a mistake to have 10 new characters. 5.5/10

Hawkeye- Really liked this show. Great checking in on an underrated character, great seeing Yelena again and Kate is a great addition. 8/10

No Way Home- Loved this movie. Cemented Holland as my favorite live action-Spider-Man. Just an experience to watch it in theaters. 10/10

Moon Knight- I really hope Isaac comes back in some other project. He made this show. Other than that, nothing too special though the ending of the fourth episode is about as stunned as I have been watching anything ever. 8/10

Multiverse of Madness- Definitely requires a rewatch but I remember liking the movie for the most part but thinking that in spite of Olsen’s amazing performance, Wanda’s story was mishandled. Also the trailer did seem to imply the multiverse aspect would be played up more. 7.5/10

Ms. Marvel- Loved Kamala, loved Bruno and thought the first 3 episodes and finale were great, but the villains sucked and the 4th and 5th episodes were fairly boring. 7.5/10

Love and Thunder- I do think this movie has some good parts. The ending was great, when he did have screentime Gorr was great, Thor and Jane’s romance felt real unlike in the Dark World. But I agree with the point of the movie was too jokey. Also Korg seemingly dying but being reduced to a face that still makes annoying jokes and stating the obvious annoyed me almost as much as 3PO seemingly dying in Rise of Skywalker and then there being a back up memory file. 6/10

She-Hulk- Liked this show. Didn’t think there was anything special about it good or bad. Thought the last 2 episodes were great. Liked the fourth wall breaking though disliked Matt and Jen having sex since I was a huge Matt/Karen shipper from Daredevil Netflix. Also while the CG wasn’t that good I never thought it was terrible. 6/10

Werewolf By Night-Just really liked this, hope they do this sort of special more often. 9/10

Wakanda Forever- Loved this movie. While Ironheart’s introduction was a little clumsy and Ross’s plot is also clearly all set up, everything else is great. Namor is a great villain, I thought Shuri was thankfully a way better character than she was in any prior movie and Ramonda was just sublime. 9/10

Guardians Holiday Special- Just loved this special. Gunn has done no wrong in the whole franchise. Can’t wait for Guardians 3. 9/10

Quantumania- Loved Kang though his introduction has been clumsy. Scott is great as always and so was Janet. Also parts of it were just so wonderfully bizzare. On the other hand, Hope was just so irrelevant, and Cassie’s character change was kind of too abrupt. 6/10

Guardians 3- Just I have basically no words. It's absolutely fantastic. Rocket and Star-Lord in particular are done so well but it is just such a great finale to Hunt's trilogy. 9/10

Secret Invasion- This show generally sucked. Good first episode and the individual performances are great and Sonya is fantastic and that's it. Hated Talos's death, hated the Rhodey reveal. Hated the surprisingly low amount of intrigue and surprise. Also insane that Fury couldn't find the Skrulls a planet considering that Thanos's planet with the garden is empty. 3/10

Loki Season 2. Fantastic. If this is Loki's finale then it was a great ending to one of the best MCU characters ever. OB is fantastic the expansions to every old character except for Sylvie is done really well. OB is fantastic. In spite of his real life issues Majors is awesome. 9/10

The Marvels- Loved Kamala, The primary dynamic between the three leads is great, the Young Avengers setup was cool. The sequence where the Flerkens eat the SABER people was actually really funny. Kamala's family are great. Fury is entertaining. On the other hand the movie is too short and Dar-Benn is not a terrible villain but could have been great. 7/10