#aro identity discussions

[redysetdare]

I wholeheartedly believe that the last thing that should be said in response to aspecs hating their identity is "don't worry! Aspecs can still do X, Y, and Z" and I'm so fucking serious about this.

The least helpful thing you can do to someone who have not accepted their aspec identity yet is give them ways to compensate for it. If an aspec person is upset over not being able to enter a romantic relationship, the last thing that should be done is to tell them they can still enter one or instead enter a QPR - not because that's not true but because that is quite literally going to stunt their ability to accept their aspec identity. Telling them they can instead enter a QPR when they're upset over the lack of romantic relationships is at MOST a bandaid for the main issue. Instead of them coming to accept their identity and accept who they are you have instead handed them an amatonormative alternative on a silver platter that allows them to pretend they still fit into amatonormativity without every deconstructing it. This is how we get QPRs getting shoved into an amatonormative framework - these people NEVER got over the "I'm sad that I'm aspec" phase because they were handed alternatives instead of given actual support in deconstructing their internalized aphobia, self hatred, and amatonormative biases.

[faggotryandtransjesterism]

being in fandom and aro is like i enjoy these characters' dynamic 'right? they're the perfect couple!' hmm well they're not together in canon, so that's not really the dynamic i'm talking about 'oh, so you don't ship them? i guess it's because you're aro, but that's okay! they can still be platonic!' free your mind.. please. do you understand that these categories of attachment are made up? are you capable of enjoying a relationship dynamic without first defining it?

[aro-culture-is]

aro culture is trying to access websites on aromantic terms at school but the website (aromanticism.org??)is blocked on the school firewalls

.

[angelfacemjj]

Ykw? I'm gonna say it:

90% of fandomers are smut addicts who can't “respect” any identity outside of cis gay male for pure fetishism.

[proxolagist]

it’s honestly painful seeing the annual ‘are aros/aces/apls valid’ argument get kicked up every year. right before pride month too??

[moreroads]

-taps the microphone-

Just because I'm ace, doesnt mean I'm off the menu.

Just because I'm aro, doesn't mean I'm off the menu.

PLEASE!!!! please, don't automatically write me off as "not wanting a relationship" or "not wanting sex" because you have found out that I am ace and aro.

ESPECIALLY, if you did not find out from me.

[mx-myth]

Personally as an aroace being in a queerplatonic relationship and/or a poly relationship sound really freeing to me. I feel like in a QPR there would be less pressure to be more amatonormative or present that way. The kind of "omg I totally thought you guys were dating" sort of relationship that just comes from the pure intimacy of willing to be comfortable around each other and to be intimate without necessarily having to involve kissing/sex/"real" intimacy (and the possible aro or ace solidarity). Meanwhile in a poly relationship I feel like at least for me there would be less pressure be "involved" to an extent. A whole other person (or people) would negate a lot of anxiety on my part enough not being enough (especially if one or more of them are alloromantic). And potentially that's someone who can provide romance or sex that I just can't.

Obviously these are still relationships that you consciously need to put work into maintain and have open lines of communication and discussions of boundaries, etcetera, just like any "normal" relationship but that's really the point here. I'm not allo (and I'm perfectly fine with being "abnormal" by most societal standards, but that's obviously not true for all of us) in any way, shape, or form, so why should I have to fit myself into a little allo box?

[aroaessidhe]

2023 reads // twitter thread

World Running Down

short scifi road-trip romance

two salvagers are trying to get by in a future wasteland, when an AI android shows up with a job offer that might get them a visa into one of the high tech cities

but when they take the job they find there’s more to it, and they’ll have to choose between doing what they’ve been working towards for years, or doing what’s right

trans MC with ADHD, m/m

[loveless-arobee]

The answer to aspecs asking you to stop assuming [thing] about all aspecs is not to start assuming [opposite of thing] about all aspecs btw.

"Stop assuming all AlloAros have a lot of sex (or "are sluts")" does not mean "Start assuming no AlloAro has lots of sex" and also not "No AlloAro ever feels comfortable calling themselves a slut (or whore or w/e)" and vice-versa.

"Stop assuming all aros are loveless and non-partnering" does not mean "start assuming all aros do love ("in non-romantic ways") and are always partnering" and vice-versa.

"Stop assuming all aces are sex-repulsed" does not mean "start assuming all aces are sex-favourable", and vice-versa.

"Stop assuming all aplatonic people want to make friends" does not mean "start assuming no aplatonic people want to make friends" and vice-versa.

"Stop assuming all [aros or aces, mostly*] experience no [romantic or sexual, mostly*] attraction" does not mean "start assuming all [aros or aces] experience some form of [romantic or sexual attraction]" and vice-versa.

[Continue ad infinitum; these are just some examples and listing all things like that would be impossible.]

Just stop making assumptions about people based on one part of their identity. If they decide they want you to know, they'll tell you. If you want to know, you can ask, and maybe they'll give an answer (don't act like you're owed one, tho).

Accept that all people are different and even people under the same queer identity are going to have a vastly different experience; especially vast umbrellas like the aspec-identities. Instead of taking what one aspec person says about their identity as true for everyone under that same identity and then taking everything else as a "contradiction" to that label, or as something that needs another or a different label, simply accept that different people are going to have a different experience even if they use the same words to describe them.

It's really not that hard.

[*I think this may also apply to other aspec-identities (aplatonic, afamilial, atertriary, etc), right? I see these takes mostly inside of and directed at aro- and ace-spaces; but it also seems like it just applies across the board, non-aro and non-ace aspec-identities are just lesser known and thus not discussed as often.]

[redysetdare]

I hate those posts like "this is about aromanticism, don't tag as ace or aroace!" as if aroaces aren't aro enough because of our asexuality, and non-SAM aces relating to aros is somehow a bad thing. Also some of the aroallo accounts are so quick to regurgitate ace discourse talking points because they think aces are erasing and oppressing aros, I hate that so much

Yeah, to an extent I can completely understand where people are coming from when asking this. I have similar issues with people tagging autism posts as ADHD because they show up in my feed because of the ADHD tag even though the post only mentions Autism. It can be frustrating to be looking for posts and get something completely different. But on the other hand...it feels like some people are taking the idea of these tags way too seriously. Tagging is a minimal issue in the grand scheme of things. Tagging does not actually derail a post as much as people act like it does. Tagging a post you reblogged does not make that post show up in the main tags. I understand that AroAllos do not want to have their personal experiences conflated as Asexuality because it can feel like erasure when you write a personal experience about you identity only to have it tagged as something that is not you identity. But also I don't think people realize how much overlap a lot of aromantic and asexual experiences have. Acting like they are so incredibly different and can't have any overlap is willful ignorance at best and malicious separatism at worse. And it's incredibly disheartening as an AroAce to see how many Aro people seem to have gotten comfortable and even feel justified in the low-key bigoted things they've said against aces and aroaces.

Some of the absolutely wild takes I've seen can range from "AroAces shouldn't post in the aromantic tag" to "Don't tag your post as aromantic if it doesn't mention aromanticism [aka doesn't mention an experience in which the viewer deems as an aromantic experience]" to literal straight up acephobia or aroacephobia and it's absolutely wild because as someone who exists in both tags I've seen this happening basically solely in aromantic tags.

It's genuinely wild to me how we even got to this point in the aspec community where people are arguing over tagging to the point of trying to exclude certain aros from the aro tag completely because they feel less seen as compared to others and act like it's the fault of those other aspecs that they are being oppressed.

I was someone who was around when the Aro and Ace communities were mostly a united force. Because when the entire world was against us we at least had each others back. half the problems people mentioned when it came to the reason to split the community so drastically were not problems I ever actually saw. Hell they still aren't problems I see. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen but I personally have not seen anyone assuming or saying that if you're aro you must also be ace, which makes me thing it's not actually as big of an issue as people seem to think it is. the aro and ace communities being united didn't mean that aromantic was a subsection of asexual, though I believe it'd be lying to ignore the split attractions model in the creation of the aromantic identity and how both the Aro and Ace identities as we know them today kind of emerged from that model.

As I said not too long ago: the separation of the aro and ace communities has done more harm than it's done help. We are making it easier for people to target us by splitting up the way we have. By making enemies out of fellow aspec people you give aphobes the space and comfort they need to start pushing us out again.

We are literally in the same boat. if that makes you upset then you can get on your own raft but you can't then demand everyone else get on their own rafts too or try to sink the ship that everyone else is on.

the tag discourse is stupid. there are more pressing issues to be upset about rather than tumblrs shit tagging system. This helps no one. If aroaces posting in the GENERAL AROMANTIC TAG upsets you THAT MUCH then you can literally go into the aroallo tag to find the content you want to see or better yet MAKE THE CONTENT YOU WANT TO SEE. If an asexual tagging a post they relate too with ace bugs you that much then fucking block them. it's not erasure when someone of a different sexuality feels represented by your post. If an aroace tagging a post as aromantic when you feel it is only about asexuality makes you that mad then you can literally block them. You cannot decide how someone should tag their posts because you personally do not know their experience. Grow the fuck up.

I'm rose repulsed. there are barely any spaces and posts about rose repulsed people in the main aspec tags. You want to know what I did? I made my own fucking space. i went to the romance and sex repulsed tags and posted there. I made posts about being repulsed. I have a fucking blog and a discord server centered around repulsed people. Yes it sucks when other people don't make content you like but that's when you have to accept you need to make it your damn self and not throw a fit over tags on tumblr dot com.

apologies for a long rant, If this ask was bait then congrats you got a rant out of me but also I think if people really want to block me over this instead of having a conversation like adults then so be it. Those who think this sort of exclusion is justified and correct are not people i want to be interacting with in the community. they are not people I want following me. I support AroAllos. I support all aromantic people. I understand where they are coming from in their pain. I do agree that they deserve more recognition because they often moralized to be morally bad for their existence and as a repulsed person NO IDENTITY should be viewed as inherently bad. I have no ill will towards AroAllos making posts about ther experience, they deserve to have their experience shared. But the way some people have been acting in the aromantic community is not acceptable and should be called out because at this rate some people are really toeing the line of the ace discourse that happened in like 2016 and as someone who went through that I REALLY don't want to see it repeat itself.

[mossy-aro]

ultimately i think my insistence on aro positivity honestly is as much a political stance as a personal one.

when i say aro positivity is crucial and that i dislike doomer-ist posts that express sentiments like 'I hate being aro so much I wish I was dead instead’ it's not because I don’t think there can and should be a space for negativity and acknowledging self-hate, or the many ways being aromantic can really suck sometimes. i find that to be very important!

that being said. there is smth here about how self-hate posts are sometimes just arophobia that we inflict on ourselves. and when we put that out into the ether it (intentionally or not) can become arophobia that we inflict on other members of the community. i think there absolutely needs to be a place for negativity and the expression of anger and frustration and self loathing even - these are all good things to talk about because these are things that we experience. that being said, it can also be genuinely upsetting and triggering to people to have what is essentially arophobia shown to them and then have that be validated by other aspec people. your personal thoughts can affect your wider community on a level you may not anticipate. and i understand it i truly do! it took me so long to be able to recover from accepting being aroace - it threw my entire world off kilter and made me question everything about my place in the world.

but my insistence on aro joy and positivity is because ultimately i do believe that building is at the core essence of it all. that ultimately discussions and the purpose of community should be about construction, not destruction. and this is both a personal and a political stance. talking about how much you hate yourself and cultivating online discussions/spaces where negativity about aspec identity is the main and only theme is destructive - if that’s where we let the conversation end. these thoughts can and should be used as a vehicle to look for a path forward!

joy and positivity create a space where the focus can become on forging a path forward, on construction, on community building instead of tearing ourselves and others down with negative thoughts. it’s not productive or healthy when it stops at a place of negativity - it becomes actively destructive to the essence of community.

and i do think that this is especially poignant considering the fact that being any kind of queer, but especially aromantic (and/or asexual) means forging a path for yourself and making your own happiness where there is no obvious way forward. our communities exist mostly online (right now, anyway), there is little recognition of our existence in the real world, the effects of amatonormativity are both pervasive and actively dehumanising, and there are legal, economic and social structures in place actively making our lives more difficult. yes that all sucks! it’s good to acknowledge that. we need to in order to change it. but more importantly, that’s not the end. we are still here and our happiness, our future is for us to determine. even if we can’t change the laws or society, loving yourself and understanding aromanticism as a political identity (as well as personal), as a radical worldview, and as a protest against amatonormativity is essential for both community and personal well being. the personal is political.

tldr. i guess my point is that as a community, we should focus on building, improving, and nurturing ourselves and each other (construction) as opposed to destruction. we should recognise aromanticism and asexuality as political identities as well as personal ones and rely on community and self-love in the absence of anything else as a form of protest and political power. destruction (the recognition of everything that is wrong) is essential as a starting point - but where do we go from there? we rebuild.

[aromanticofficial]

shocking news, The aroallo guy is here to talk abt being aroallo. everybody gasp

anyways. i wanted to explain why aroallos are so "sensitive" about our identity and place in the aspec community.

the aspec community has a sex negativity problem. this is obvious. the amount of "sex bad" takes that are boldly labelled "aspec experiences" instead of what they actually are (puritan culture) is enough to make anyone who actually experiences sexual attraction feel more than unwelcome in the aspec community.

aside from that, there's also the erasure. aromanticism is always treated as a subcategory of asexuality. there's this constant underline to every mainstream-ish discussion of aromanticism that basically comes down to the inherently aroallophobic idea that "not all aces are aro, but all aros are ace". it's not that anyone says this out loud; it's that everyone seems to imply it subtly, everyone seems to believe it without even thinking twice about it.

aside from that, there's the lack of representation. name an aromantic character. chances are, you've just named an aroace character. and even in the very very rare case of a character being canonically aromantic but not canonically asexual (e.g. carpenter from the silt verses), the fandom still treats them being asexual as canon. fandom treats aromanticism as something that must only exist within asexuality, not as its own separate identity.

our fellow aspecs spew aroallophobia at us in a misguided attempt at humor (i've gotten several asks from aroaces telling me i "should" be aroace), our posts are mistagged as asexual when we make it extremely clear they're just about being aromantic (and when we point out that we don't like that, we get called control freaks. true story), the aromantic tag is filled with posts just about asexuality, allos either call us emotional abusers and imply we objectify people by simply experiencing sexual attraction, or imply that we're just afraid of attachment and that they can "fix" us.

the absolutely jarring truth of being an aroallo on tumblr dot com is making a post about being aroallo and immediately getting ten anons telling me i'm "no better than a straight man", "an aroace in denial", "an emotionally abusive predator", or just a slut, while at the same time someone comments on my post "you're making up an issue that doesn't exist" "why are you so mad about this" "you wanna be a victim so bad"

whew. okii that's all. hope that clears stuff up for non-aroallos out there /gen

what they said

[mylight-png]

A while ago I was listening to Dara Horn's podcast relating to her book, People Love Dead Jews. Within this podcast she discussed the fact that Holocaust museums tend to center stories that highlight ways in which Jews were just like anyone else, putting secular Jews on a pedestal of sorts.

The podcast went on to make the point that we shouldn't have to be like them to be liked. A Jew in a kippah is just as worthy of being accepted as a Jew in a baseball cap, and to position one, the more assimilated one, as "better" is antisemitic.

This made me think of how movies and shows portray Jews, and I realized a similar pattern of idealizing assimilation is deeply prevalent.

There are two main ways Jews are portrayed in movies/shows that I've noticed that are problematic. (For a narrower scope I'll be discussing American media as I am more familiar with that than most other countries.)

The first kind of Jewish representation is the token Jew. This is the character that the viewer wouldn't even have known is Jewish had the show not casually mentioned them celebrating Hanukkah in passing. This is the character who is entirely the same as any other character. An example of this would be in Ginny and Georgia, where a few side characters are revealed to be Jewish. This reveal occurred only for the purpose of making a Hanukkah episode, and immediately one of the characters says the beginning words to most of our prayers, adding "bitch" at the end. This sort of absolutely blatant disrespect towards the words many of us wouldn't even speak fully in casual conversation is meant to indicate that it's okay to poke fun at our religion. (By the way, it isn't okay. Don't disrespect our religion, thanks.) (And no the actress wasn't Jewish.)

Then there's Ben Gross from Never Have I Ever, a similarly extremely assimilated Jewish character. Instead of making fun of Judaism, however, the show plays into Jewish stereotypes. Ben's dad is a wealthy influential lawyer who works with Hollywood. Come on, there's three in a row there. Ben himself is frequently made fun of for being very short (to an extent not befitting the actor's actual stature), and some of his mannerisms could be described as effeminate. All of these traits play into anti-Jewish stereotypes. The protagonist even says she wishes Ben was killed by Nazis and other than a scolding this isn't made to be the big deal that it is.

These sorts of characters are meant to show how Jews are "just like you!" and pokes cruel fun at the few remaining things that do occasionally set them apart. Yes, secular Jews exist, but the way these shows make fun of their Jewish identities is where the issue arises.

The second problematic representation is meant to make goyim feel good about being goyim. This is specifically done through how Judaism is portrayed in these movies.

A major example of this is the show Unorthodox, in which the plot centers a young girl trying to escape her very observant community. This show directly demonized the Jewish religion, making it appear inherently oppressive and twisted.

While some may argue that the show was merely trying to portray the social issues within the community, there are better ways to achieve this.

The book An Unorthodox Match takes on a similar task with a vastly different tone. The book centers a protagonist joining an equally observant community, but not for a moment does the book, author, or protagonist blame Judaism. The book is very clearly written by a Jew who loves Judaism, and yet it manages to highlight similar social issues to the show without blaming Judaism. In fact, Jewish traditions have a fair share of appreciation in the book!

This sort of media is meant to make the goyishe viewers be grateful they aren't part of those communities, but as a Jewish viewer I felt deeply uncomfortable with the positioning of religious Jews as a negative part of society. This media makes the characters seem like they have nothing at all in common with the goyim around them or the goyim watching the show. It's the polar opposite of the previous example.

The first example is showing Jews as "just like anyone else" until they aren't, while the second example portrays Jews as entirely other. Never have I seen an Orthodox Jewish character side by side with the non-Jewish characters in any other context than the Jewish character envying their non-Jewish peers.

Why is the choice either to be assimilated or othered? Why can we not have an observant Jewish character remind their friends that they can't hang out on Saturday, or maybe they bring their own kosher snacks? Maybe a Jewish character muttering a bracha over their food? Why not make being Jewish an important part of their character without making them self-loathe because of it?

Media almost only ever shows two extremes and neither of those extremes has a positive impact on the perception of Jews.

(There is also a pattern I've noticed with Jews and goyim being cast in Jewish roles and how that corresponds to the character, but that's probably another post for another time.)

[racheldrawsthis]

What do you think about your character who has a canon sexuality being headcanon by fans with diff sexuality?

Example : Manon is straight but someone Hc her as lesbian, Vincent is Bi, etc ?

I see some fans didnt like the idea of Manon is straight, because how straight people is the majority and straight character in media didnt really needed ??

I definitely don't mind people hcing things differently for straight characters bc like you're right who cares but if a character already is queer like being bi, demi, aro, etc then I think I'd be more comfortable if they're respected as is since changing those in itself is erasing what their original queer identity/representation was.

But overall the sexualities of my characters aren't a priority and I hope fans don't make their label their entire personality or treat it as the only thing worth discussing or is important about them

[fallen-daughter]

Aroallos are not treated the same as alloaces or aroaces.

We are seen in a worse light than alloaces and aroaces because sexual attraction with no romance is seen as "morally incorrect" and "sinful" no matter how you go about it.

Even in queer and aspec circles we are treated poorly.

Many people, queer or otherwise, see sex outside of a relationship as bad, especially if you are someone who does not intend on settling down at any point in your life.

Being aro is frustrating enough when people either don't know you exist or refuse to believe your lack of romantic attraction is anything but a mental illness, a choice made because of self-esteem issues, a phase, or a personal failing. Adding sexual attraction to a lack of romantic attraction makes things a million times more difficult because then people assume you're a pervert, homewrecker, or are sexually violent/irresponsible in some way.

Even in the modern day when sex before/without marriage and FWBs are gradually becoming more acceptable, most people assume those who have sex also want to settle down at some point. And when you tell them you don't, you are perceived as a pervert.

You end up having to reassure people you're "normal" about sex. You have to explain in detail why you're safe, even if you've shown no signs of sexuality before then.

To be transparent, I'm not saying alloaces and aroaces have no problems at all or that their problems are less important than those of aroallos. And I'm not saying this to be divisive or cause any infighting. I'm saying this because aros in general often get ignored. We're often overlooked because we're not considered an "important" part of the queer community, and our identity is seen as something trivial. And a lot of times, for aroallos, we are intentionally excluded from discussions about queerness or aspecness because we're considered "taboo."

I just think we need to start having discussions within the aspec community about the amount of stigma around being aromantic but not asexual. We need to address the alloarophobia within queer and aspec circles before it gets any worse.

[aromantic-diaries]

Idk if I've said this before but I feel like the bi to aro/ace pipeline wouldn't be half as common as it is if asexuality and aromanticism weren't forgotten all the time when it comes to discussing sexuality. I think it's funny to joke about it and seeing how it's something that so many people experience has definetly been helpful in making me feel less alone but sometimes I think about how I would have known I was aro and ace much sooner if I knew more about these identities like I did about bisexuality