#are just as valid as reactions that based on those more 'objective' aspects

[kathleenkatmary]

It's always funny when I see a post or review of a show that insists the writing is bad as an objective assessment because they find a character hard to root for, and then everything they go on to say to try to support that is not actually an objective assessment and so clearly just them having some deep personal issues that they're projecting onto that character. Especially when it's combined with that things that's becoming more and more common lately where people just like, think that a character is badly written from the get go because they haven't already completed their character development by the end of the first episode.

[silyabeeodess]

An Overthinker’s Reaction to Neige Blanche (Twisted Wonderland)

I finished reading Book 5 of the game’s English version a couple days ago, and something’s been bothering me about its ending compared to previous chapters. While the other chapters thus far have done a great job with their independent stories for each of the student-villain parallels, the ending of Book 5 and its message left me feeling sour.  I couldn’t really place exactly why for a while, because my immediate thoughts on the ending as I was reading it didn’t seem justified for how I knew the story needed to go for its theme to truly carry weight; however, the more I’ve thought about it, I’ve drawn it to one conclusion:

Despite being based on Snow White and her pure nature, I do not like Neige Blanche or think he’s all that great a person--or even a true match to Snow White in personality.    

This may seem unfair due to Neige’s very brief appearance in Twisted Wonderland so far, but there’s some off things about him I can’t shake and I mainly just want to get these thoughts out of my head. Because it still hasn’t been that long since the chapter dropped and I want to avoid spoilers, I’ll elaborate further below the cut: 

I’ll say this right off the bat because I can already see the argument: I don’t care that Night Raven College lost the Song and Dance Championship.  For one thing, based on the foreknowledge we’re given that the Royal Sword Academy constantly wins and that even minor events in the stories/special events have the player character get accustomed to losing makes the SDC loss kind of expected as it’s still early in the game’s main story.  For another, plot-wise, the moral Vil has to learn about accepting himself and his own successes as an individual despite falling behind Neige would’ve likely fallen flat had NRC won since winning would’ve only been giving him the external validation Vil’s been after.  NRC winning also wouldn’t have given us the very real detail that Vil’s self-acceptance is going to take time.  This aspect of the chapter was handled extremely well.  Exactly why NRC lost though, is another matter--and I don’t mean the part about Rook making the deciding vote...

The SDC is described as being a premiere competition taking the best vocal artists and performers between the schools for the entertainment/music industry to seek out budding talent with massive reach in Twisted Wonderland’s world.  Despite this, however, we’re supposed to accept that Neige’s group not only won with a simple children’s song, but won despite having a completely poor performance. How come? In short, thanks to cute points. Allow me to pull some quotes from Chapter 60:

“All those dance moves are so simple, anyone could do them.  They’re not even in sync.”

“One of ‘em almost fell over! Neige helped him catch himself, but all of these guys look like they could go toppling at any second.”

“Frankly, the quality is nothing worthy of note.”

“They’re dancing is out of sync and their harmonies are clunky at best... but I’m glued to the performance.”            

This isn’t just the NRC team describing the Neige’s group’s performance, but outsiders in the film crews as well.  The only reason people were “awestruck” by it is because they thought they dwarves were kids and somehow that made it more “family accessible.”  Fine, since this is a competition based on popular vote as opposed to judges, I can accept the win wouldn’t necessarily be based on difficulty or actual skill.  I would’ve even accepted it if everyone voted simply because Neige was in the act because there’s plenty of people in the world who show favoritism and can’t be objective.  However, let me ask you this: Would you think that the average primary school choir would deserve to win a competition like American Idol or Britain’s Got Talent?  Because that’s what this effectively is: A show where people are expected to perform on a professional level, but somehow, an amateur act made it into the final round.  

Neige claimed they practiced hard, but the descriptions of their performance say otherwise.  You could say that, despite all their effort, they just couldn’t improve.  However, we have to keep in mind that the dwarves are not actual kids, Neige himself is a professional performer like Vil, and they should’ve had the time to train and prepare just like the NRC team.  Furthermore, from the way Vil in this same chapter manages to describe the NRC group as being “outplayed” despite this, I can only conclude that using the dwarves for their childlike appearance was a tactic with no basis on actual talent.  Because people tend to feel sad and guilty when kids lose, so they’re going to give them more leeway than teenagers and adults.  This is a complete slap in the face to what the competition is supposed to the be.  It’s not emotionally resonating or captivating: It’s manipulative.  

Spinning off this to finally focus a little more on Neige himself, also in Chapter 60, he describes that his whole reason for joining the competition was “because he wanted to share some special memories with his friends at school.”  On the surface, that sounds like a wholesome line, but what do Neige’s friends have to do with this?  We can assume that the dwarves naturally are his friends, mimicking Snow White’s relationship with her own batch of seven.  The problem with this though is that that would be like Vil picking only Pomefiore students because they share a dorm or excluding Deuce, Ace, Grim, and the player from the auditions because of the fight they had at the start of the Book.  Neige picked his friends to perform with him?  In a massive competition representing his school and involving actual prospects in the music/entertainment industries?  Despite the fact that they can’t sing or dance worth a flip and likely showed little to no signs of improvement as the weeks of training gearing up to the competition went on?

Did the Royal Sword Academy not have an audition process like NRC? Because there is no way the dwarves would have passed it if they were as bad as they were at the actual competition despite all the practice they claim to have had for it.  Granted, we can say the same from our main four freshman at NRC, but even if we ignored the reason why Ace and Deuce were specifically picked (for being a gamble, but both with unique qualities to bring to the group), we can also confidently say that they improved enough to perform well.  We can’t say that for the dwarves.  Therefore, this means one of two things: We’d either have to believe that everyone at RSA is just as bad as them if not worse or that, again, the dwarves weren’t picked on actual merit.  And going off Neige’s friend line... they weren’t.  This means that countless performers at RSA were denied the opportunity to show off their talent and potentially get actual deals simply because Neige wanted his friend group with him.  That is garbage.  

Now, I don’t think Neige is a bad person: I didn’t see any strong hints of his kind, bubbly personality being fake or that he might intend to cause harm.  However, based on what I just explained, I do think he’s an inconsiderate and thoughtless person.  He might not have thought of how picking his friend group meant that he stepped over a lot of talented people who truly deserved the chance to perform on stage at the SDC, or that using the child factor of his performance was a very dirty tactic for a competition that was supposed to be based on talent.

That’s the reason I don’t think Neige completely works as a Snow White parallel.  Snow White could be too trusting/innocent at times, but she wasn’t clueless and did consider how her actions affected others.  When she scared the forest animals after fleeing into the woods, she apologized for it even though it was a simple mistake due to her own fears.  When she entered the dwarves’ cottage for the first time with the intention of hiding out there, she knew she couldn’t just stay there for free and did her best to be useful.  I don’t see Neige showing that same level of consideration toward anyone--be it his competitors or his schoolmates.     

Allow me to bring in the headmaster of RSA, Ambrose, into this, since he also does something similar, and it’ll lead to my final point. When Ambrose speaks with Crowley, he pretty much laughs to the latter’s face about winning the competition and how they’ll soon make it an even one-hundred victories between their schools.  Even though he’s light-hearted about it and is friendly with Crowley, you can tell that it still gets to NRC’s headmaster.  Why wouldn’t it?  That’s rubbing salt into a long festering wound.  No one likes to lose--especially that often over the course of several years--and commenting about how NRC has constantly lost shows a major lack of tact from Ambrose.  

While it’s still too early to say, this indicates a trend with most of the hero-parallel characters.  This behavior is that of good people who are used to winning and getting their way without struggle or consequence, those who don’t earn their victories.  Right now, they seem like fairytale protagonists who skipped the actual story and jumped straight to their happy endings. Think of the relationship between Kalim and Jamil: Kalim is a good person, but he’s also incredibly spoiled and has had most hardships cleared out of the way for him since a young age.  This allowed him to be inconsiderate of Jamil without meaning to, hurting someone he’s always considered a best friend.  I can see the RSA characters falling into a similar category: Neige, the actor the gets all the best roles and stays on top of the industry no matter what, and Ambrose, the headmaster whose school has won countless victories in a constant streak without fail.  The differences between them both and Kalim though is that we as an audience have had time to see more of Kamil’s good qualities and that he has learned a lesson after Book 4.  I haven’t followed the JP version of the game to know how much has been expanded upon with the RSA characters in later books.  Still, I can see this being heavy potential for their development.

Right now though, it makes the RSA gang very hard to like.  For me, it’s not a matter of disliking them because they’re acting as the current antagonists--the literal definition; still not villains, mind you--but because of their poor show of behavior and oblivious regard of it.  In contrast, I never had a problem with Leona’s nephew and brother because neither of them could help the position they were born into any more than Leona and Cheka is still a child who can’t understand how complicated the family/royal situation is.  Neige, meanwhile, should’ve at least remotely understood how hard it is for performers to fight for their chance to shine, since that’s his industry, and should’ve put more focus on merit rather than his own desires for the competition.   

[comicreliefmorlock]

A Reader’s Guide to Writing: Lesson #2

I... expect to get shot for this. 

-sighs and puts on a helmet- Body shots, fine, but I’m trying to avoid taking a headshot for what I’m about to say. 

The Constant Reader... does not give a fuck about flat, cardboard-cutout “representation.” We just don’t. In fact, it’s downright insulting to your Readers to assume that labeling your character “insert woke points here” will automatically endear them to us. 

(...god I’m going to get in so much trouble for this...)

When I see a book described as “it has two lesbians in it!” or “these characters are transgender!” my immediate and automatic thought is “...okay, but what is the story about? will I give a fuck about these characters?”

And that, right there, is something that can actually carry a weak plot (to a Reader’s mind) or absolutely drag a good plot into “well, I might as well finish reading it.”

Do I give a fuck about your characters?

Now this does not mean your character has to be Wholly Unproblematic or an Adorable Cinnamon Roll, Too Good, Too Pure for This World. 

What it means is “do I respond to your character like they’re fleshed out well enough for my brain to read them as a person?”

For Comparison-- Two Characters:

Here’s an example of what is honestly a really well-written character (in a... very... ugh, look, the pervasive racism makes it terrible to read now and I just kind of wince and groan at it and wince even harder knowing how well it was received) because the character has caused Emotion in a Reader.

Scarlett Fucking O’Hara.

I hate her. I’m not even kidding, I just hate this self-absorbed bitch. She drives me nuts. I’d love to yeet her off a literary cliff and watch her drown. 

...but I consider her a well-written character because she inspires emotion. I react to her. I legitimately read a page of “Gone With the Wind” (*again, I know, I’m sorry, the book’s slimy feel of ‘but... slavery was good!’ is just... horrific) and I want to grab the nearest heavy object and slam it onto her empty skull. She has obvious flaws--and they’re explicitly spelled out in the text--and those flaws totally fuck up her life. Scarlett doesn’t get what she wants because she is her own worst enemy in a lot of ways. And watching her make decisions based on what She Wants and then dealing with the aftermath feels legitimate. It feels pretty real to watch someone make a decision based on a want only to see them struggle with the result OF that decision. Not to mention the moment of realization that came too late, as let’s be fair, hindsight is 20/20 and a lot of us have had that ‘Ohhhhhhhhhhh...’ moment ourselves. 

What Scarlett has a lot of, however, is Emotion. And I don’t mean she has a lot of emotionally wrenching scenes. What I mean is Scarlett is actively driven by or affected by An Emotion at nearly every part of her story, even when that Emotion is just some self-absorbed Glee at how she’s gonna one-up this whole town.

Let me compare my reactions to Miss “I’m So Self-Absorbed I Should Be Taxonomically Classified As A Sponge” O’Hara to a character that I... honestly couldn’t give less than a fuck about, despite having read six whole books she’s the main protagonist of. 

Ayla of “Clan of the Cave Bears” Jean Auel fame. 

In the first novel, Ayla is... actually kind of interesting. A Homo Sapien child found by Neanderthals and raised in their society, there’s a bit that can be read into just how hard it is to fit into a culture and how sometimes that involves more self-repression than is mentally healthy. And in the second novel, “Valley of the Horses,” all the parts with Ayla before her Male Perfection Love Interest shows up are also fairly interesting.

She’s alone, she’s fighting to survive with only her hard-earned skills to carry her. It’s great!

And then... Jondalar arrives and we see her through His Eyes. 

I’m not sure exactly what happened here other than the novels (and Ayla) turn into a constant Display Of How Amazing Ayla Is. Everyone loves her! (And the people that don’t are Obviously Flawed and So Empty Inside.) She can do anything! She invents the needle! Horseback riding! Domesticating dogs! The travois! She’s drop-dead gorgeous, an accomplished healer, wants only to be a Good Wife (it’s a little icky, but considering the time period these books are set in, I give it a pass on that) and is always so confused as to why people seem amazed by her. 

She becomes basically a Perfect Woman and to be honest, all her struggles after that just feel like they’re directly tied to how Perfect She Is. Ayla suddenly doesn’t have An Emotion behind her. She’s just a vessel for everyone’s awe that such a “perfect woman” exists. And it just... turns her completely fuckin’ flat.

What I’ve found after doing a LOT of reading is that a Writer should keep one big thing in mind.

(And this goes triple for stories that tote themselves on the representation platform.)

Emotion--the experience of it, the sharing of it, the looking for validation of it--is one of those defining things that make what we’d call the Human Experience.

People who are looking for representation in media are looking for actual representation. For a Person like them on the screen or page. Maybe you don’t know what it’s like to be a teenager struggling with a realization of sexuality, but you can ask people who do. And you can relate YOURSELF to that on some level. 

Everyone in the world has had a moment where they’re trying to reconcile something about themselves with what the world expects or with what they expect from themselves. You can take that seed, that memory of sitting in your bedroom and listening to the same song on repeat while thinking wistful thoughts of what life could be like if This Was Different or imagining a future where What You Want is accessible, acceptable and within reach. You can find the Emotion and appeal to it.

I know that the experience of being gay or disabled or neurodivergent or trans or a minority is not universal; everyone has a different life, different experiences, different fears, worries, hopes, dreams. 

And I say this in full awareness that someone could very rightly be angry at me for paring off societal issues and cultural problems to make this accessible to writers who may want to write a specific character FIRST and THEN find sensitivity readers to help them refine it*. 

There’s a “but” to the whole “different life” thing. 

Humans have felt the basic range of emotion across the board, across the world, across time, regardless of where or when or who they are. And a Character that makes you Feel is a character that you can give a fuck about. Pare off the labels and start with the tinest, most concentrated idea of who this person is so you can find their emotions to use in the story. Are they a dreamer? A fighter? A creator? An explorer? What Emotion drives them? Hope? Curiosity? Anger? Sorrow? 

Because I personally have seen myself in characters that I have absolutely no surface experience in common with whatsoever, but I responded to the Emotion that drove them because I recognized it. I’d felt it. Maybe what created the Emotion was different (wildly so!) from what created it for me, but I had the Emotion. The character is having the Emotion. 

And that makes me give a fuck about the outcome of their story, whether the personality carrying the Emotion makes me want to cut a bitch (fuck you Scarlett) or see them succeed in every aspect of life.

[*You will want sensitivity readers to refine the character because representation should actually represent and not be A Writer Getting Woke Points.]

[k-rising]

Rosé natal chart analysis

DISCLAIMER: This is just a part of the analysis of the idol’s natal chart, which wants to show a deeper perspective on the idols life. This analysis is carried out thanks to the data that appears in the birth chart. These are my interpretations of the signs and how they work based on my experiences with them. Everyone has different opinions and all interpretation and experiences within is valid. The point of this post is to entertain. [This idol hasn’t confirmed her birth time, so I used the standard 12pm time to calculate her natal chart].

Aquarius Sun

humanitarian !!

open minded

original

idealistic

loves freedom

loves socializing

rebel

artistic

intuitive

free thinker

eccentric

stubborn

erratic

Aries Moon

independent

straightforward

spontaneous

impulsive

has quick reactions

impatient

temperamental

Moon sextile Venus

VERY KIND AND FRIENDLY

so charming and sweet :’)

optimistic

possess a lot of artistic talents

loves music and art SO MUCH

might attract a partner who’s VERY popular

extremely loyal to her s/o

has good relationships with women

wants to have a loving and united family

Moon opposite Mars

this aspect creates a lot of inner restlessness

easily frustrated

gets impatient when there’s no challenges to accomplish

Moon sextile Jupiter

carefree

trusting

finds humor in situations

she’s fun to be around

t o l e r a n c e

she might not take life too seriously

believes in the basic goodness of people

can trust bad people :(

Moon conjunct Saturn

there's a conflict on receiving and expressing emotions here

she might have a hard time understanding her feelings

fears letting her emotions control her, so she tries to control it instead

it can be quite challenging for rosé to know herself in a deeper level  

Moon sextile Uranus

empathetic

wants to change the world somehow

has good friendships

doesn’t like routines

has the need to stand out

it might be quite difficult to understand her, bc her emotions are pretty complex

Moon trine Pluto

perceptive and strong af

likes helping the people she cares for

loves secrets, drama and dark stuff

a lot goes on in her mind, tbh

handles crisis very well

she might be closer to females than males

Aquarius Mercury

again… open minded

witty

open to new experiences

see things in an objective way

likes being in groups

might have eccentric friends

Mercury conjunct Venus

charms people while communicating

dislikes verbal conflicts

Mercury trine Mars

talkative af

expresses herself in a very energetic way

Mercury conjunct Jupiter

can exaggerate a lot sometimes

fears looking foolish

Mercury conjunct Uranus

unpredictable in communication

Mercury conjunct Neptune

has great visualization

can get lost in her imagination

it can be hard for her to express her thoughts

may feel misunderstood a lot :(

this aspect is great for creating music, acting, writing, etc

naturally gifted in art :’)

Mercury sextile Pluto

VERY observant

attracted to secrets and mysteries

she may like talking about taboo things

loves figuring out problems

perceptive

extremely opinionated

tries to understand the world through intellectual means

Aquarius Venus

has a tendency to idealized love

seeks something original

more mental than emotional

unusual relationships

wants a best friend rather than a lover

wants someone who understands her interests

doesn’t like being alone

relationships might rise a lot of times, but they are not long-lasting

doesn’t like when someone limits her freedom

Venus trine Mars

wants to feel energized

enjoys company

seeks for connection

Venus conjunct Jupiter

generous

supportive

warm

affectionate

has good luck with relationships

can get easily hurt in love… but tends to bounce back quickly lol

Venus sextile Saturn

easy going

grounded

tries to do the right thing for the people she loves

she might have a small circle of friends

wants long term relationships

Venus conjunct Uranus

this aspect indicates unpredictable and erratic relationships

rosé values respect, support, acceptance and communication

Venus sextile Pluto

PASSIONATE AF

l o y a l

draws people in

sensual

always thriving to do more

humble

powerful

endings or disappointments always prepares rosé for something bigger

Aquarius Mars

rebellious

fights to inspire others

interested in social problems

might have problems with authorities figures *coff coff* yg

Mars trine Jupiter

finding patience, peace and rest can be a challenge

Mars opposite Saturn

fights for her rights and morals

life will often ask her to fight for those things

Mars trine Uranus

forward

if social cooperation doesn’t comes naturally for her, she might not want to fight for it

Mars trine Neptune

i n t u i t i v e

VERY creative

everything she does, she does it with PASSION

Mars sextile Pluto

capable of being fearless and quite fierce

may also be power hungry

adept at exposing secrets :0

Aquarius Jupiter

her mind is always ahead of others

works well in groups

has great social skills

Jupiter sextile Saturn

well informed

excellent comprehension

feels responsible for communicating to others

Jupiter conjunct Uranus

likes exploring new things

Jupiter conjunct Neptune

e s c a p i s m

fears for the truth

Jupiter sextile Pluto

wants to control her own fate

can have a hard time accepting things outside her control

when unpredictable things happen, she might get close herself

Aries Saturn

unable to let go and live without repercussions

needs to learn to have confidence on herself and her abilities

rosé may feel older than she really is

Saturn sextile Uranus

enjoys working in groups

Saturn trine Pluto

power comes naturally

has control of her sexual urges

resistant to changes

Aquarius Uranus

changes expand her way of seeing things

drawn to changes

Uranus conjunct Neptune

intuition and intellect brings a powerful connection here

Uranus sextile Pluto

tends to enter people’s lives unexpectedly

brings transformation and change into people’s lives

Capricorn Neptune

business and success are idealized here

Neptune trine North Node

rosé has a strong sense of destiny

she already started her destiny, yall

Sagittarius Pluto

playful

can be very spiritual

as i said before, she may like experimenting and exploring herself

Virgo North Node

rosé has to learn to say ‘no’

be a leader

she has to stay healthy

stand up for herself

take responsibilities

[the-ice-sculpture]

I’m really tired of seeing thinly (or not so thinly) disguised insults towards anyone who has even a few criticisms of the Loki show. These insults often come with an air of self-believed intellectual superiority and condescension. Whether it’s intended or otherwise, there are underlying implications and insinuations in common arguments I’ve seen a lot of, which basically boils down to the following:

You can’t distinguish between your own personal headcanons and reality = you'll push your own idea of what something should be onto something so much you won’t even be aware of it and you’ll be frustrated when it doesn’t meet those expectations. You don’t have enough self-awareness to tell the difference between what exists in your imagination and what exists in reality (unlike me, who doesn’t need to push any ideas about what I’d like in terms of characterisation because I personally believe the show already happens to reflect that)

You don’t understand the nuance of it = you’re not intelligent enough to think in shades of grey and varying degrees of subtlety and interpret this (the same way I do). Your thinking is shallow and your ability to analyse lacks depth. Regardless of your justification, if you think there are OOC moments, then you’re just failing to pick up on the nuance. You need someone (such as me) to hold your hand and tell you what to think and how to see (what I claim) is really there

You don’t understand how storytelling works = you can’t recognise any devices used and why they’re used. (Unlike me, you’re not clever enough to understand what the show is doing and the purpose of why it’s doing it.) If you criticise some of the execution of the storytelling methods the show has adopted then it can only be from a lack of understanding on your end and nothing else 

You just want the show to be like fanfiction = you’re incapable of wanting different things from fanfiction and canon and you don’t have the intelligence to recognise this. (I know this because I can recognise this and ‘diagnose’ it in other people)

Loki’s obviously acting to trick the TVA/people into underestimating him = it’s idiotic not to interpret this theory that’s currently unconfirmed in canon as of S01E03 the same as me. If you have doubts then you’re incapable of picking up on the clues that (I personally believe) are there

You’re determined to not like the show. You want to tear it apart = all of your opinions and arguments can and should be rendered invalid regardless of your justification. If you don’t like certain aspects then it’s because you never gave the show a fair go to begin with. Therefore, you’re narrowminded and it’s your own fault if you don’t like it/elements of it because you never wanted to like it in the first place. You want to be miserable

You’re all the same = you can’t think for yourself. Each one of you can be generalised to one hivemind-like entity with no variance in opinions or your justification of them and you’ll blindly follow each other without any critical thought. If you express criticism, you’re now an anti. It’s black and white: either you’re completely pro-show or anti-show and there’s no room for anything in between

You’re stuck in the past = if you’re not completely onboard with any tonal and character changes you find jarring then you’re incapable of accepting change. You just want something unimaginative and uncreative and boring (which I might imply reflects your personality)

It’s not until now that Loki’s finally shown in character = people who thought he was in character in previous movies are wrong and aren’t real fans if they don’t accept this. There’s no room for extrapolation from previous movies, and if you do that then you’re just using your own headcanons so you must be wrong about any perceived changes in his character. (But if I extrapolate from previous movies to justify some of the show’s choices with his characterisation, then that’s completely fine)

You’re making your mind up before the whole show is even released = you can’t have any opinions about the show so far until you’ve seen all the episodes. (Unless, like me, you’re happy with the show)

If you’re reading this and are agreeing with the takes on anyone who expresses so much as a few criticisms, then please read the rest of this post.

I want to emphasise that it’s only a fraction and far from all people who like the show who I’ve seen these kind of takes from, and I have nothing against people enjoying the show. It’s only when I see stuff like the claims listed above that I become frustrated.

People will have different takes and interpretations, it’s only natural. No one can call an interpretation of a character and/or how they’re presented objectively wrong or objectively right. But that doesn’t mean it’s acceptable for anyone to resort to insulting others (whether blatantly or through implication) who have opinions that differ to their own.

Just as a thought experiment, let’s try this the other way around, shall we? Let’s imagine that some of the people who aren’t enjoying aspects of the show start spreading posts about the people enjoying it. If this was to occur, there’d probably be posts about how anyone who thinks he’s in character will blindly go along with whatever show creators tell them, that they (the fans of the show) must have never understood the depth of Loki to begin with so they can’t be real fans, that they’re so determined to enjoy the show that they’ll twist the narrative to suit their own needs and desperately invent reasons to accept it... 

I could think of more but I’m going to stop here because, ultimately, it’s not nice, is it? It comes across as a super shitty thing to do for a reason: it is super shitty. 

I hope it goes without saying that I'm not claiming the examples I made up are true. No one should be claiming anything like the things I invented for my thought experiment are true in public, no matter where on the spectrum of opinions on the show they sit. It’s rude and insulting and would contribute greatly towards further fandom division and a toxic environment filled with feelings of hostility over something fictional to begin with. 

No one is intellectually superior for their opinions on a TV show. People can and should feel however they feel about the show. In an ideal world, they should be able to express that without any harassment or being treated in a derogatory manner or made to feel like they have no place in fandom. This goes for negative opinions and positive opinions and anything in between.

I just really wish people would keep their opinions restricted to the content of the show itself rather than reactions to it sometimes for reasons like this. If groups of people can’t do it without feeling the need to make it out like they’re intellectually superior and anyone who expresses opinions that differ to theirs must be stupid then maybe they shouldn’t be doing it at all. Especially when the overwhelming majority of the more critical people go out of their way to tag their stuff so more positive people can avoid it if it gets them down. More critical people don’t have to do it, but the vast majority of the time they do it as a curtesy. It’d be nice if that curtesy wasn’t repaid by being so disrespected.

And please, before piling on someone’s post about how they’re just lacking a nuanced understanding or are applying their own headcanons, maybe consider that your own interpretation of someone’s opinion could be doing precisely the same thing.

One final thing I’m adding as a preventative measure: if your response to reading this is something along the lines of going ‘but some people really can’t distinguish their headcanons from reality!’ then you’ve really missed the point. The point of this post isn’t to debate whether or not every claim is valid (that would have to be a case by case analysis, and it would be so open to interpretation that you could never reach a definitive conclusion anyway, so it’d be pointless). The point is that it’s incredibly rude to publicly insult someone’s intelligence and make up a bunch of condescending assumptions about them based on their opinions. If you’re treating someone or a group of people in real life like that (and yes, if they’re from the internet then they’re still real people) then you’re doing something far worse than the people I’ve seen branded as toxic people for expressing criticisms of fiction.

*For the record, I’m not saying that anyone with criticisms has never said something along the lines of my thought experiment examples. I haven’t seen any of that myself, but I’m not all knowing. I’m just reflecting on what I have seen, and the vast majority of it has come from a fraction of people without (or with far fewer) criticisms of the show. But it’s irrelevant who it comes from, because my point remains the same: it’s shitty regardless of who says it

[miseriathome]

it's totally understandable and ok if you're notinthemood, but i stumbled upon the paper about "str8" and it reminded me that you once mentioned something about the formation of masculinity in incel comms. and i'm still interested in that. anyway hoping you are doing well or ok.

 I’m doing well, thank you! I love when people ask me about identity.

The identity formation paper which really made me start thinking about incels and identity formation through the reification of abjection is called ‘That pony is real sexy’: My Little Pony fans, sexual abjection, and the politics of masculinity online, and it’s actually about the brony community on 4chan.

To very briefly summarize the construction of the abject masculine brony identity, you have people who find community among other like them, interested in ponies as objects of sexual attraction. They know it’s viewed as strange to outsiders and at a certain point, being a freaky lonely pervert failure man starts becomes just as much of a trait to bond around as liking ponies. Extreme performance of “I’m a freak, I’ll never find love, I can never be who I am to people in real life, I despise my own existence” is not only expected, but rewarded with community and affirmation of suffering. They are hyperaware of the real stigma and ridicule that will face them should they ever be authentic away from /mlp/, and they direct their righteous outrage against women and feminism. The collective identity of “brony” is characterized by emptiness, shame, victimhood, tension, and social disadvantage which falls across gendered lines.

It follows that many aspects of incel identity formation run a similar course; incel identity is defined by the perception of inescapable suffering and shame at the failure to achieve acceptable manhood. This consuming grief is both relieved and magnified by affirmation from peers, but acceptance into the community is always perilously contingent upon proper performance of failure, self-hatred, and reactionism against acceptable classes/institutions. I definitely had one or two good papers on incels on 4chan or reddit, but I recently lost a very big reading folder and I can’t for the life of me recall anything about them; there are plenty of decent non-journal theses on incels available through google scholar, though, which approach their identity formation and misogyny through various analytical frameworks.

The idea of identity based around abjection fascinates me--after all, that’s a very central theme to queer identity and pride. But as we’ve seen time an time again with various circles and discourses, there are communities in which persecution becomes a marker of validity and suffering becomes not a consequence of stigma, but an identity in and of itself; we’ve seen how truscum have warped transness into its own intrinsic site of pain, and how radfems twist womanhood into being synonymous with victimhood, and how antis stoke the fear that the outside world is malicious and cruel. These groups gatekeep community through extensive performance of suffering and alienate people from other avenues of self-actualization; they emphasize that the only people who will be there for you are the ones who readily confirm your lack of value. They do not challenge the institutions from which the pain stems, they do not seek to uplift each other out of the toxic spiral of self-loathing, and they do not desire solidarity with other hurting people; instead, they provide the incredibly fleeting but oh-so-enticing relief of reactionary politics and targeted aggression.

When we understand these identity formation processes and we consider the complex matrices that overlay binary axes of privilege and oppression, we become better equipped to disrupt the cycle and create more effective outreach. People ridicule bronies for having a persecution complex while being privileged, and yet they readily understand in other situations how toxic masculinity, mental health, sexual purity politics, stigma against paraphilias, amatonormativity, and heteronormativity are all institutions which profoundly impact the lived experiences of non-white, non-straight people. There are real insecurities to be had among the privileged, but by and large the only communities willing to address those insecurities in an affirming way are toxic breeding grounds for reactionary radicalism and bigotry. Men who have some niggling sense of the injustice in this world and how it negatively impacts their own lives are more readily recruited into these depressing, vitriolic feedback chambers, but a comprehensive leftist praxis which makes room for deradicalization and inoculation from radicalization could work to uncouple abjection from shame/destigmatize abjection, and to create spaces for men to feel positively about their masculine identities and process their suffering.

[c0ry-c0nvoluted]

READ THIS.

First off, everyone who isn’t too lazy to use their brains for something other than doing what they’re told should watch the video attached. But the only way you’ll get any benefit from it is if you’re stable enough to be objective. Remove yourself from yourself and just absorb and consider.

This video is 2 hours long. And you’ll find him (#DavidIcke) repeating his point throughout which can get trying, but it IS a valid point. That point being:

THIS IS WHAT THEY WANT.

They want us afraid and panicking and ready and willing to accept whatever aggressive measures are needed to alleviate our fear. In fact, they’ll have us pleading for these aggressive measure to be taken (that will continue well after the crisis) and then vilifying anyone who calls for our rights to freedom. “Oh, you don’t want to stay indoors? That means you don’t care about my grandma and you should be locked up.” And, “Oh, you don’t accept a mandatory vaccination because you don’t know what’s actually in it? Then you’re the monster who’s putting my children at risk and my family in danger and should be locked up.” We will all line up to shackle ourselves and everyone else around us if we’re panicked and afraid.

At the end of it all he suggests alleviating our fear of death in order to not allow ourselves to be manipulated. This is brilliant. But how do you do that? By changing your perspective on consciousness and realizing that human consciousness is not the only experience. That after we leave our bodies we move onto an entirely new form of infinite existence and consciousness, and that death is nothing but a change in perspective (and likely a fantastic one.) My opinion on this? I’ve always thought that our minds aren’t quite evolved enough to maintain consciousness as a form of energy without a body. But I meant that in the aspect of “I don’t think I will STILL BE ME.” But, considering this further, and seeing the benefits of adjusting my perspective, I realize now that, sure, I might not be me, but how is that a bad thing? I mean, even if there’s no consciousness at all, that’s STILL not a bad thing. And if there IS consciousness, it will be so much more vast and connected to the universe than it is right now trapped inside these fleshy mishaps of evolution, that the next existence may as well be called Heaven, regardless of the fact that I don’t believe in the Christian afterlife or their creation theory (or their God). And yes, it occurs to me that it’s not death we fear so much as the pain of dying. But most of that pain comes from the fear. I’d say that if you were NOT afraid to die, then you’d easily ease your suffering (while dying) by 50%, if not a whole hell of a lot more.

His ending note/concept is a bit difficult to wrap your brain around, and impossible for most (unfortunately), but for those who can grasp it, it’s fucking gold, man. It really helped ease my mind and is worth sticking around the entire interview for.

(This next part of these “Cliff Notes” is gonna get back into the “conspiracy” of it all.)

How often have you been repeatedly told to get your flu shot over the past 10 years? It’s everywhere, right? That repetition is a form of psychological manipulation. It’s gearing you up to get a vaccination that’s mandated. And that’s gearing you up for what will lead to voluntarily being ushered into a world where there are no more jobs so you’re dependent on “government” cheese, which is barely enough to survive so keeps you powerless, and you’re behavior is monitored and your “government credits” are at risk if you “behave improperly”. 

THEY ARE ALREADY DOING THIS IN CHINA TODAY USING FACIAL RECOGNITION A.I. TO MONITOR BEHAVIOR AND ADD OR SUBTRACT CREDITS ( which he discusses)

WE WILL BE NEXT.

And it’s all under the guise of “your government wants to help feed you in these terrible times but, for your safety, you will be monitored, and any negative behavior will result in penalties.” And what becomes “negative behavior”? Speaking out against the World Government. This has been written about for decades, if not longer, and has become such a scifi troupe that most believe that it’s just fantasy. But it started as a practical concept recognized by deep thinkers, seeing the inevitable outcome of a monetary society, and then was developed into stories told for entertainment. But ALSO for awareness.

  He may go a little too far for rational people when he acknowledges the possibility that #COVID19 might actually have been released purposely, but that’s not relevant because A PANDEMIC WAS INEVITABLE (because of how connected our global society is). And being inevitable, it is very easy to plan for that pandemic and manipulate our reactions to it so to push us all towards EXACTLY what they want:

TOTALITARIANISM

And if this pandemic isn’t bad enough to get us where they want us, the next one will be.

This is probably the point where, if you’ve made it this far, you’re gonna pull the Bullshit card and dismiss the whole rant. But here’s the thing:

The “conspiracy” of it all is IRRELEVANT. The fact remains that when you stand back and look at where we are headed you’ll clearly see (if you can think that far ahead, which, granted, 80% of our society is not intelligent enough to do, which is what makes this possible in the first place) that what he describes and how he describes it is in fact exactly what is happening. So whether it’s all a conspiracy or not doesn’t matter because the end result is the same. No, I’m not saying COVID-19 is a conspiracy. I believe it was just an inevitability, as mentioned above. But our reactions to it and what will happen now because of those reactions is (coincidentally?) pushing us toward the death of democracy AND THE DEATH OF OUR FREEDOM.

He goes on to point out that because this concept is so unfathomably evil we can’t possibly accept it to be true because, as far as we know, no such evil on such a grand scale can actually be real. It baffles the mind. IT MUST BE PARANOIA.

It isn’t. It’s, again, all part the inevitable outcome of a monetary based economy. How many times do we have to say this? The only outcome of a monetary based society is that eventually only one corporation will survive (even if they’re more than one at the end, they’re all working together as a conglomerate). And, in a monetary society, whoever controls all the money CONTROLS EVERYTHING.

David Icke doesn’t even touch on the money thing, which I was surprised by. He simply just puts the spotlight on "The Cult" that’s secretly manipulating our entire civilization toward the One World Government they need in order to control it all. He brings up the point of why are we locking everyone down if only the elderly and people with underlying health concerns are in danger? We should be locking THEM down (humanely) for their protection and letting everyone else go about their lives and get sick and then get over it like we always do and will. Admittedly, I’m not entirely sure about the end fatality rate, because we’re not there yet, but it makes sense that most of us, even if and when we contract it, will be absolutely fine. Granted, Americans are unhealthy as shit, so the mortality rate can end up being a bit rough, but it’s THE FEAR of that rate that allows them to sit back and let us hand over our freedom to them. THE FEAR is what will give #TheCult ultimate control over the world, and we will fucking hand it to them with praises while saying “thank you for saving us from these terrible times.”

As I was watching this, just after he mentioned that the goal is to get everyone on a government “credit-based behavioral-dependent income,” I got a news notification saying the motion was just passed to send out $1000 checks to American citizens.

Holy. Fucking. Shit. 

IT’S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.

What the The Cult want is for all other companies to crash leaving them the only few left that have money/power, which makes it so none of us can challenge them because anytime anyone speaks out they’ll have their "government cheese" reduced and no one else will have enough of their own to lend them. THIS IS WHY MONEY NEEDS TO BE ABOLISHED ENTIRELY. I won’t get into the details of that here but, believe me, it CAN work and WILL make EVERYTHING INSURMOUNTABLY BETTER. But just to touch on HOW it would work:

TECHNOLOGY. Society will need to be automated so people will not HAVE to work for a living. But in order for that to happen all the world's governments would have to work together to create this automated society. This is the only POSITIVE outcome of what The Cult may be pursuing. If we're lucky, when whoever wins it all has decimated the entire world's economy, they may decide to create a new and better one that does in fact abolish money and automates society. But this would be a fucking miracle beyond fathoming because it would mean that the sociopaths who killed the world were actually doing it to save it.(But this discussion goes a little too deep into "not fucking likely, bro.".)

WHAT WE CAN DO NOW TO STOP THIS IS NOT LET FEAR ALLOW THEM TO CONTROL US, ULTIMATELY CAUSING US TO HAND OVER OUR FREEDOMS TO THEM.

And no, this is not the American government’s plan. It’s not the communist party’s plan. It’s not Trump or anyone else you see in the media. They are all pawns, puppets, unknowing means to ends and have no idea what’s really happening (or are possibly part of it, yes. But that’s not likely. It’s more likely they’re just be manipulated like the rest of us.)

Watch the interview attached.

Keep an open mind.

Do not be afraid.

Death is just a change in perspective.

OUR PERCEPTIONS ARE OUR REALITY. 

-cm

[tammyhybrid21]

Tadeo and Internalized Ableism

Well… this…

Wasn't actually the next post I planned to make next for this fandom, but well, since Tumblr deleted an old post of mine, right when I decided I was going to scream and share that OC again… Well, it lead into a discussion that I had sort of-- half started and stopped a few times, and now here I am… And… this will be a lot, sooo--

"What is with You?"

Let's see if I can shed some light on this.

So first… to catch up the uninitiated… I have, by this point cemented my belief that Tadeo is quite likely Autistic himself(Read that post here). So now alongside the rather more obvious Autism that Mummy displays we have Tadeo-- Tadeo, who has one character trait/flaw that keeps coming up and that I would personally like to dissect along with some extra reflection on some of his actions in the sequel and the hints given to us in the little animated/stylized growing up sequence for Tadeo…

So to start…

What's the trait/flaw…

Well, it's even looking to be the BIG ONE for the next Movie. Tadeo seeks the validation and respect of his peers, but always falls short.

Tad would love for his archaeologist colleagues to accept him as one of their own, but he always messes everything up.

Or else turns them against him... Which... Okay, this is something that we've actually seen as a rule for him, from the opening credits of Movie 1. And even from his Construction Worker peers... Although we didn't really see it so much in movie 2, buuut--

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOqolHchI6Y&t=6s

Let's start this analysis off properly with this, and the symbolism re: Maladaptive Daydreaming in this whole little introductory to Tadeo sequence here from the first movie.

Which okay, look, I know it might not seem like much. But in the greater context, well. There's actually a lot of information that we can unpack in this short introduction, and points one and two I would like to make are the ones with Young Tadeo in the school "classroom". Because here's the thing...

That-- That's a familiar place. And it's an unfortunate thing, but-- Just how it's framed here--

I... can't really say anything 100% on this... but this feels much too close to daydreaming away Public humiliation. Like, look, okay-- it's all too common, but public shaming for one reason or another. Being too dumb/distracted, or if you're stimming in class-- and I have... many feelings about Tadeo and potentially supressing his stims-- but these scenes in this opening hit really close to how it feels--

And again, maladaptive daydreaming in general is this WHOLE sequence.

Soooo why does this matter in the context of this discussion? Well, let's ask why, this all would be happening. And the answer is going to be very simple. The same reason at the start of movie 1, one of the first scenes we see is a pair of boys teasing/mocking Tadeo in his front garden dig site.

"You'll never find anything"

"Loser"

Which-- isn't much, but for the context of the scene. This is our introduction-- and even in the sequel, we know he's still teased over his interest in Archaeology-- it's seen as a "loser hobby". Which I think also brings me to the next point of the moments in the opening...

JEFF! Give him a puppy since nobody wanted to be the weird kid's friend. It's not even a proper balm really. And possibly might have incidentally caused some other issues, but I don't think I could really explain or give those things justice... So instead... I'm just going to finish this section with a point of note.

How many times must Tadeo have gotten punished for being "distracted" or "not paying attention" in the classroom. How many times would he have been punished for stimming?! I really do wonder, and if anything else, how many classes must he have daydreamed away to escape from the stress and pressure of reality? Hell, we still see him as an adult stress daydreaming--

With the consequences of getting fired...

Which okay, none of this actually makes my point. So-- I want to draw attention to the behaviour in the sequel that really annoyed me, along with a friend who I watched both movies with. It's just the behaviour that's there throughout the whole movie-- best summed up as... not appreciating company... BUT

On that actually--

I would like to bring up one expression early on that gives me MANY EMOTIONS.

And it's the one up above, as the preview image to this post. Specifically this face:

Now... I don't know about you, or anyone else. But THAT'S a thousand yard stare if I have ever seen one. But additionally. I have, a much, much too in depth reading on this expression. Like, so far in depth it's not even funny.

There's a sense of fear, long stare, the small twitch in the frown as if guilt-- and then because it's literally on the heels of "stop drawing attention" (the first occurrence of that line as well)... And just-- you get flashback sense. Also I would like to comment on the movement in this scene, in how his hands are on the wheel the small twitches and quirk in his expression... it's as if--

As if...

Well. Look, considering the precursor scene. And listen. WE ALL want to do what Mummy done in that prior scene!

Same Mummy! SAME!

But-- I would like to talk about sequencing and the emotions in when and how Tadeo drags him in... there's a moment I really can't quite catch properly... between it, but--

This frown... this thinky frown... and the line draw-- Tadeo? Is that guilt mulling over a decision? And there is a double glance, but that's not something I can catch in screenshots, and I don't know how to make Gifs... but the following sequence and expressions and I just can't with my emotions and what kind of feeling Tadeo gives me here.

It just...

I really want to know what he's thinking.

So... let's talk about this expression. I don't know if it's just me, but again, there is... a sense of-- well almost upset for being a "kill joy". Bursting Mummy's bubble... Popping his fun. And considering we have ALL been there and wanted to stick our heads out the window--

BUT--

Why is this a detail I would like to bring up... well it comes into how Tadeo explains things. Mummy scares people, he's different, a Zombie in their world... which yeah, that's fair... BUT! After so many rewatches... and remembering that promise... promise sealed with such an important object to Tadeo--

I just have a lot of thoughts... and I don't think it's really easy to explain, but I would like to draw back to a background detail in the sequel again...

In relation...

And... as an Aside. Specifically... the promise made... or what Mummy asked in Movie 1.

"If I let you go, could you guarantee me you'll let us live in peace?"

Also, I know this seems arbitrarily related... But I do wonder if some of Tadeo's pushing Mummy aside, stop drawing attention, you need better disguises... I do wonder, really wonder if it's actually because of this promise... misguided and maladapted maybe buuut-- it would make some sense in the context of how there is always something in the background of those moments that Tadeo is just worrying about.

BUT

That's only speculation, and not even one that holds up in relation to some of the worst offence moments of Tadeo's problematic behaviour...

And thus... let us enter into the realm of problem projecting... and with some bonus from Tiffany and how she makes this dynamic juuust that touch more clear on rewatches along with my own talk about this particular topic.

As a minor note, this scene actually doesn’t have much. But I kind of get... more specifically this grumpy dad/parental friend from Tad's expression. And considering. "I told you to wait in the car!" BUT ALSO, I just want to note how Sara is less worried in this scene. More if this is happening-- Tad's worry, again could be the promise...

But more specifically... There's a lot in Mummy's body language and appearance aside what he is-- the truth of his origin aside... he does not fit in... and it's specifically the outfit, breaking the "rule" that Tadeo worries about... drawing attention and eyes... and considering the next image set I want to talk about... I have emotions, but it's very messy, and kind of scrambled.

I have... a number of statements I could make on this one... but number one, exactly what the dialogue here actually is... And where that worry is coming from. Tadeo... isn't actually scared of Tiffany here realizing what Mummy is... I think that cat's long out the bag... but there's something else.

"Your friend is a bit weird"

"You have no idea"

Sooo... there's a lot of scenes here... and a few more, but I really, really want to talk about something. For a lot of this... Tadeo is really the only one who has an expression of worry, or fear, or anything that's similar. Tadeo's the one worried.

Mummy is bopping out, I can't really get a good shot of the dress, but again, Mummy... isn't really bothered or anything. Tiffany is also the only one who really has a weirded out reaction... but that actually strengthens the point I'm going to make about what this feels like more than anything else... And I suppose we can touch base on the queer aspect on that note but really--

For a lot of this stuff...

Tadeo's issue is drawing attention. But for the other part of it... I want to point to Tiffany's reaction and even much later... how the villain identifies him.

Also Tadeo's reaction in the last one is... arguably the worst of all his reactions. Like, I have-- many emotions on a lot of his reactions but just-- Tadeo is not in a good place right now...

"Are you serious WHAT ARE YOU DOING?"

Which... hmmm, now, where have I heard that before? Where have any of us heard that one before? In fact-- Tadeo... his reaction to ALL of this is telling.

Like... aside the Tiffany thing... which also her whole "It's official, your friend is a total FREAK" has some baggage... does anyone else look at all these scenes and get that...

"I'm THIS close to a panic attack" feeling? Also, on that note, I would like to point out there's just... so, so much worry from Tadeo when it comes to the Super Cookie scene, again not something I can really capture in just screenshots. BUT--

BUT--

This brings me to the big point. Mummy by this point is basically masking/mimicking Tad to fit in. Since Tadeo has shot down, all of his disguises... and-- Tadeo's response, has always been that fear. But here, there's an outright anxiety. Which again this could be covered/passed as him being-- well, anxious over his promise. But there's also MASSIVE ANXIETY with the Super Cookie scene, more than I can really capture without the animation... but...

Let's talk about projecting issues.

And specifically.

"A total FREAK"

Now... here's the thing. Again. Mummy throughout the WHOLE movie has been, pretty much dropping the mask. He's going wild and having fun being himself and happy... but-- for that he's pretty much been shut down at every turn... MOSTLY by Tadeo pre-emptively... but... I want to point out something...

This is... Such a small interaction... but it is SUPER telling.

Tiffany is... an issue. Because here's the thing. Part of her reaction, might actually be bleed through from how Tadeo's been in this WHOLE situation. Which, again there is a lot for me to unpack and talk about... But my biggest lynchpin and realization moment... for what's going on... is that scene with Mummy dressing up and mimicking Tadeo...

And more or less picking on Tad's insecurities.

WHICH-- underhanded, BUT IT POINTS OUT A RECONTEXUALIZATION POINT.

Because here's the thing... Tadeo... Stifles those things.

"I would never! I'M NOTHING LIKE THAT!"

And then the sheer panic with Jeff, and the super cookie, and what if?

Let's go back to this for a moment:

Now... for a moment... imagine... a kid...

No friends. Just a dog. Jeff is... Tadeo's security blanket, and possibly one of his only friends. People only seem to tolerate Tad at best. He's still bullied and teased and mocked and--

And--

And can never do things right. A screw up. So he stifles his stims... like seriously. Go watch when he does his happy dance, and see how long it lasts-- and then see this:

And there are moments from the first movie as well, buuut-- He IMMEDIATELY stifles it when he catches himself... and I know something about stifling stims... sooo how is the relevant... well... I would like to propose that fear anxiety/overprojection idea.

Tadeo is scared... Scared not even necessarily of Mummy's identity being out... but of how people will react... AND Let's talk of something else...

Considering what's been revealed about a certain Descubre con Tadeo scene... Mummy knows... and he's aware... and that's internalized... but... There's a BIGGER issue with Tadeo... He's... not just embarrassed by his own stims and actions and his own "oddness"

But that's bleeding over to what looks like projected embarrassment and shame and a deep, deep fear, in regards to how he interacts and works with Mummy. And I know this is big brain and heavy... but Mummy's side of things...

Small and subtle. "Weirdo like me!"

Tadeo, has gone to trying to be normal, and while Mummy feels it, he owns it.

Which... brings me to the end of this whole thing. But not fully, because there is... a small thing more. For all Tadeo has been a DISASTER throughout the whole thing. Overprojected worry that just reeks of that second hand embarrassment projection... Tadeo proves he cares in a small moment that I don't think people would think too much about...

Not in front of a crowd, and he still needs a smack...

LIKE A SERIOUS ONE.

Like, look, for all Tadeo has been a disaster projecting issues friend... he does care, and this moment subtly reminds that. ALONG with that it IS projected worries and issues. And... Internalized ableism that makes him embarrassed. Of himself, and more, of how free Mummy is acting with his own neurodivergent behaviours. Tadeo is... a mess.

And...

Now I need to circle back for a moment.

Because here's the thing. Tadeo might not be doing this, mostly because I don't think he's a writer, but the point of call that made this post... was me getting excited about sharing an OC...

Specifically...

My smurfs OC... one who I made a post on back in 2017, that has now been deleted... and I will not be reposting it... but if you want the details... I turned it into a doc for sharing... But... the biggest thing is... the logic behind making this character, and giving them the name they have had up until recently was... Internalized Ableism and trying to deal with bullying... Also not everything in that document is even accurate anymore...

But hey, kudos to me in 2017 for trying to explain it.

But...

"Call a self-insert [Insult] because it made the word hurt a little less(it's only the truth right?)"

This is Mummy's approach... while Tadeo... tries to be normal, normal, and shun it to the point he hurts himself. And... inadvertently hurts others around him as well...

I will probably make a few smaller clarification posts later, since this is practically 2700 words and I feel like I've only barely explained it, but really, how can you even explain this properly? It's just one of those nuances...

But yeah... internalized ableism and the beast it is making relationships and talk hard... even between two neurodivergent icons of characters.

[isitreallyok]

Positivity Pressure: Handling The Negativity (Part 3)

I know we’ve been talking about positivity all week now and I understand that this topic can be wholly triggering to some people. To some of you it may feel like I am beating a dead horse, but this line of thinking has impacted me in so many ways over the years that I feel like sharing it will hopefully be beneficial to someone else who is unsure of how to handle it in their current circumstances.

Last time we were talking about how common sense wasn’t so common. How did you come to this realization? 

Throughout my life my father has told me that rather than react to situations I should respond to them instead. I spent a lot of time not knowing what exactly he meant by that and in turn getting frustrated at the fact that these two concepts are incredibly similar in meaning and then would just argue linguistic semantics rather than find the lesson to take away. Now that I have been hearing this for my entire adult life and have worked towards reevaluating how I handle various situations I have come to realize that this is the difference between logical and emotional responses to triggers.

This is something that took me over a decade to begin to understand. Even understanding the concepts, I still struggle to figure out the best way to implement them in my own spur of the moment responses to situations. I am likely not alone in being emotionally driven and tending to shy away from logic and reason when I’m upset so next time I want to talk about what I’m discovered in this and show you all a bit of the thought process when I’m examining how I handled various situations after they have come to a close.

So what are some examples of reacting versus responding because I’m not understanding it either.

Lets use an example here of positivity reinforcement that doesn’t work for me and how I react to the situation. For the sake of this example lets assume that someone has quoted the lines of the song that started all of this and then followed it up with some otherwise derogatory statements out of frustration. Here is what was said then we will examine how best to handle the situation as the person on the receiving end.

“Shut up and be happy. It’s all in your head. Shut up and be happy ‘cuz it ain’t that bad.” followed by “Your pessimism is really starting to make it to where I don’t feel like I can talk to you about anything. You’re always like this and as such you can not be reasoned with. If you aren’t going to listen then I’m going to stop trying to help”

If I were to react to this situation in the moment it would look something like this, but imagine that I am adding expletives every few words. “So what you are saying is that my problems aren’t real to you and since they aren’t real you can’t be bothered to even listen to what I’m saying. You are making the assumption that I’m consistently pessimistic and in assuming that you don’t see what I do behind closed doors to try to help myself. So if you don’t want to even listen and assume that all of my problems are in my head you clearly don’t want to be a part of my life in the first place. You don’t care about me. You don’t love me. You don’t want me. You don’t respect me. You’re just trying to make sure that I don’t jeopardize whatever fragile peace you have put around yourself because you can’t be bothered to handle someone who is breaking down. If you don’t care I don’t either” Then I likely would get way too worked up slam a door and think about a myriad of different ways that things in my life suck and how I am never going to be able to overcome them on my own and the person who said this clearly thinks that no matter what I do I can’t be reasoned with in a positive manner.

Clearly this approach is wholly unhealthy and relies heavily on a lot of really crazy assumptions that likely are not true. By having these assumptions as the primary motivation for how I react to the situation it leads me down a much darker rabbit hole that is often times harder to get myself out of because I then don’t feel confident reaching out to people for help.

Now lets assume that I respond to the situation instead. The same words are spoken, but I’m able to take a moment and be a little more objective about it. That would sounds something more like this “Clearly I’ve said something in my venting about my problem that has upset you. I can see that you aren’t able to handle this right now and I apologize for not making sure that you were in the right frame of mind to handle my emotional volatility right now. So rather than having both of us say things that we might regret in the future lets both take a step back and talk about this situation when we are able to address it a little more calmly.” This approach is much more reasonable for both parties, but still manages to put an undue pressure on one individual to “be the bigger person” and step away from the situation.

Ok. I see what you’re saying now, but does it ever really work that way?

I’ll be honest. I am often unable to respond to situations with logic and calculated thought. Usually I react to situations in negative or overtly pessimistic ways which is what gets me into these situations in the first place. I am by no means perfect, nor will I ever claim to be.

I think that rather than trying to go full Vulcan in situations there should be some kind of meeting in the middle of these two reactions. To do this there are a few things that need to happen. First, understand that your feelings, even if they aren’t understood by the other party, are valid. This allows you to operate without beating yourself up for being emotional. Second, accept that there is a chance that your feelings might not be wholly accurate to the situation. This response to a situation is also okay and completely valid. If I see the way that I felt about something as a negative I have to learn to forgive myself for it and work towards seeing things differently in the future. Emotions are fickle beasts that can change on a moments notice. Finally, and very importantly, it needs to be understood that there are two sides to a conversation and as such there are two viewpoints that may not line up.

It is paramount for people to accept that their opinion on a situation may not be understood by others and accept that the person that they are trusting to listen or advise them in that moment is going to be genuine in trying to help in whatever way they know how. I firmly believe that this is how that middle ground is reached. Whenever we reach out to others in a time of crisis we are putting our trust in someone else to respond appropriately to our cries for help. After understanding your personal needs, communicating them in less strenuous times, and then reaching out in a time a crisis, then open an honest communication based on understanding can then occur. Emotions are able to be felt, boundaries are then able to be set, and there is a level of safety in this type of communication. There is a risk in doing this with people because you never know how they’ll react, but this allows you to find those that you can go to in a time of need and learn who you aren’t able to approach when life gets you down.

I understand what you’re saying now. Lets bring this back to positivity reinforcement though.

Ah yeah. That was the topic that set all of this off. Lets wrap up what we’ve already talked about and then I’ll drive home one last point. In essence reminding people who are feeling hopeless that there are positives in their lives to celebrate is a double edged sword. It is something that can be very beneficial to them if they are open and receptive to hearing it, but in a moment of crisis it typically is the last thing that they want to hear in the ways that people often think of approaching it. The steps that I developed with people to help me cope and maintain healthy relationships and conversations around positivity reinforcement go like this.

1. Be introspective about how your needs can change in various situations and figure out how best to relay that information to those that I communicate with in a time of crisis.

2. When not facing a crisis, communicate these needs to my confidantes so that they have a well established understanding before a time of crisis arises.

3. Trust that when I am in a situation where I feel the need to reach out for help people will be able to work with me to assess which set of needs I am looking to have met.

4. In a time of crisis, remember that if people are reminding me about other aspects of my circumstance that are not as bad as what I’m hyper-fixating on they are not trying to belittle my problem and instead are communicating something to me that I may not have seen or considered.

5. Understanding that the other party is not able to read my mind. Clear communication is beneficial to all parties involved. It assists me in getting the support I need to make it through a difficult situation and it allows the other party to have the information that they need to make informed decisions about how to help.

6. Respect the growth and work to cherish it. Any amount of growth no matter how small is a cause for personal celebration. I know what makes me uncomfortable and if I find myself pushing boundaries to make a positive change I should celebrate that. Conversely, if I back slide a little bit then I have to remember to be kind to myself in accepting that these things occur.

7. Be appreciative of others giving their time and energy. They have no obligation to listen to me complain while hyperventilating.

8. Be there for others the way that they are there for you.

The last step in this list is the final thing that I want to touch on. Support networks are two ways. I am eternally grateful for all that Elyse has done for me over the course of our friendship to love and support me in whatever way she best knows how. However, I am also ready to drop what I am doing at a moments notice if she finds herself in a time of crisis and needs the same level of love and support that she has shown me. This is a part of support that is very easy to forget. I know that I don’t always manage to remember to check in on everyone whenever I feel I should. As long as it is established as a give and take relationship both parties will have a trust in one another and be able to grow together. No one is perfect in this, myself included, and mistakes are made, but this is how we adapt and grow into better people.

What this all boils down to is exactly this, there are always things to celebrate but it is completely valid to occasionally lose sight of them and not want to see them when reminded. No matter what anyone is going through their feelings are valid and their own. Even if there is a dichotomy of opinions, the emotions that one experiences are uniquely their own. Reminders of positive circumstances are important even though they are not always well received. Through consistency, even outside of times of crisis, paradigms can shift. Remember, Rome wasn’t built in a day. This applies to both positive and negative shifts. We entrench ourselves in our thoughts and it can take some time to get out.

So I know that this week has veered off course a few times throughout these posts, but all of the problems that I have mentioned have been things that have naturally come out of both blasting people with unnecessary positivity reminders and receiving them as well. As far as positivity is concerned I’ll leave you all with this advice. Be kind to each other. Remember that everyone is different. Love yourself the same way that you love others.

Keep being incredible fam. I’ll post some more lighthearted stuff outside of the usual posting window over this weekend.

[imaginaryelle]

Okay, @tonyglowheart , here is that promised response:

@three--rings  already brought up some points I was going to mention so I’ll skip over going into detail on those and just say that I agree with the use of caution and thoughtfulness in approaching works produced by other cultures (of whatever language), and I, too, love a mash-up of MDZS and CQL for ideal storytelling. Accepting genre tropes in general is really important as well. I once showed my grandfather a piece of my writing based on pulp adventure stories like Indiana Jones and his main reaction was “All these secret chambers and codes and gadgets, isn’t that all very convenient?” and I just had to shrug and say, that’s the genre, it’s part of what makes it fun to read. Also, based on reading about various medicinal histories I’ve been exploring, I can say that the coughing up blood thing is a trope based in Ancient China’s traditional medicine. Lots of pre-understanding-of-blood-circulation societies thought expelling old or stale blood was important for the body (possibly based on how menses works and reflected in Western medicine’s several-century-long obsession with bloodletting), and I recently read that having it caught in your chest and needing to cough it up was part of China’s take on things. I’m still not sure about all the other face bleeding, but if it’s not actually based in something historical it seems like a reasonable extension for the genre.

Okay, so the thing I want to respond to most is the translation bit, because I… okay. I understand that people are going to find works in translation less accessible than works written in a language they can read, and especially works written in their native language and of their own culture. Because obviously there are a ton of underlying ideas that inform word choice and symbolism and character arcs that most people just don’t really think about until they make a serious study of writing or literature (or they travel and learn more about other languages and literature traditions). On a linguistic studies level, language literally shapes the way humans in different cultures think, and what they pick out as important (an academic article that compares English and Chinese specifically can be found here). Even the distinctions between British English and American English, on a word choice and theme or syntax level, can have an impact. I have seen it turn kids off a book, because there are just too many elements they don’t get (this is, for example, why there are two English versions of Harry Potter). Same thing with different decades even. I’m talking about kidlit and YA here because that’s a lot of what I work with, but in that realm, the way we approach stories today is just incredibly different from how they were approached even 50 years ago, even in the same language and the same country. Think Judy Blume or The Dark is Rising vs Diary of a Wimpy Kid or Percy Jackson. And I’m fascinated by those changes, and by the effects of culture and bias on translations (I am extremely hyped to read Emily Wilson’s Odyssey translation, for example), so I tend to approach them as puzzles, where I’m reading the work, but also looking for clues that will tell me more about both the translator and the author to hang in balance. I enjoy that part, and I enjoy figuring out aspects of the two languages that can contribute to how a translation evolves.

I’m a language and literature nerd, and I know not everyone is going to take the approach I do.  I’m not going to fault anyone for saying they don’t enjoy or can’t get into a translation. That’s a perfectly valid opinion. Reducing a work to its translation and judging it only on that impression of it, however, seems pretty shortsighted to me. Here are some things that I think are important to keep in mind when reading a Chinese work in translation, just based on my own extremely limited knowledge:

1. In Chinese storytelling it’s an established practice to reference idioms, poetry, folklore and historic events as a sort of shorthand for evoking the proper tone. Chinese writing tends to be extremely allusive, and much more understated than what we’re used to in English-language storytelling. We can see hints of this in some of the MDZS translator notes, and it’s likely that this difference feeds into a lot of dissatisfaction with the translation. Either the allusions are not translated in a way that adds meaning for an English-speaking reader, or the standards for detail are different. Indirectness and subtly are huge parts of Chinese literature, and so different words or scenes will have very different connotations for Chinese vs. English speaking audiences. And this isn’t even touching on the use of rhyme and rhythm in Chinese writing, which are all but impossible to translate a lot of the time, or the often extremely different approaches to “style” and “genre” between the languages (an interesting article on comparative literature is here at the University of Connecticut website). Given this knowledge, it’s entirely possible that, for example, the smut scenes are more effective in Chinese than in the English translation. In fact, I find it difficult to believe it would be popular enough to get multiple adaptations and a professional publishing run if they weren’t. In translation, smut is a lot like humor: every culture approaches it a little differently. Unless a translator is familiar with both writing traditions and the relevant genres (or they have editors or sensitivity readers who can offer advice), something is going to get lost in the process. And sometimes that something is what at least one of the involved cultures would consider to be the most important part. It’s unfortunate, but it happens.

2. Chinese grammar is slightly different from English grammar (and I’m focusing on Mandarin as the common written language here. For anyone interested, a very basic rundown of major differences is available here). Verb tenses and concepts of time work differently. Emphasis is marked differently – in English we tend to put the most importance on the start of a sentence, while in Chinese it’s often at the end. Sentences are also often shorter in Chinese than in English, and English tends to get more specific in our longer sentences. From what I understand, it’s also a little more acceptable to just drop subjects out of a sentence, and that is more likely to happen if someone is attempting to be succinct. I’ve been told that it’s especially common in contentious situations, as part of an effort to distill objections or arguments down to an essential meaning (if I’m wrong about this or there’s more nuance to it, I’m happy to learn more). As one example of how this affects translation, let’s take that and look at Lan Wangji’s dialogue. I’m willing to bet that most of his words are direct translations, or as direct as the translator could manage. But his words don’t work the same way in English that they do in Chinese. If you continuously drop subjects and articles (Chinese doesn’t have articles) out of a character’s speech in English, they start to sound like they have issues articulating themselves, and I see that idea reflected in fic a lot. The idea that Lan Wangji just isn’t comfortable talking or can’t say the words he means is all over the place, but I don’t think the audience was intended to take away the idea that Lan Wangji speaks quite as stiltedly as he comes off in the English translation. He’s terse, yes. But I at least got the impression that it’s more about choosing when and how to speak for the best effectiveness than anything else, because so many of his actual observations are quite insightful and pointed, or fit just fine syntactically within the conversation he’s part of.

3. Chinese is both more metaphorical and more concrete than English in some ways. In English we use a lot of abstract words to represent complex ideas, and you just have to learn what they mean. In Chinese, the overlap of language and philosophy in the culture results in four-character phrases of what English would generally call idioms. Some examples I found: “perfect harmony” (水乳交融) can be literally translated as “mixing well like milk and water” and “eagerly” (如饥似渴) is read as “like hunger and thirst.” If these set phrases are translated to single word concepts in English, we can lose the entire tone of a sentence and it’ll feel much more flat and... basic, or uninspired. The English reader will be left wondering where the detailed descriptive phrase is that adds emotion and connotation to a sentence, when in the actual Chinese those things were already implied. 

As translations go, MDZS in particular is an incredibly frustrating mixed bag for me, partially because of the non-professional fan translation, and partially because my knowledge of Chinese literature and especially Cultivation novels is so minimal as to be nearly non-existent. But I have enough exposure to translations in general and Chinese language and literature in particular that I could tell there were things I was missing. The framework of the plot and scenes was too complete for me to ever be able to say that any particular frustration I had was due to the author, not the translator. There’s a big grey area in there that’s difficult to navigate without knowing both languages and the norms of the genre extremely well. At one point I was actually able to find multiple translation for a few of the chapters and I loved that. It was really cool to see what changed, and what remained essentially the same, and I was actually really surprised to find that rant you mention, because to me, more translations is always better. I think it was probably about wanting to corral an audience, and possibly also about reducing arguments from the audience about whether a translation was “wrong” or “right.” And that is an issue that’s going to crop up more in online spaces than it has traditionally. Professional translators don’t have to potentially argue with every single reader about their word choice. But then, professional translators also tend to have a better grasp of both the cultures they’re working with as well, and be writers of some variety in their own right, and while I can’t know how fluent (linguistically or culturally) the ExR translator was at the time, the translator’s notes lead me to believe that at minimum their understanding of figurative language use was incomplete. So I can’t fault people for not enjoying the translated novel as much as CQL, for example, because it can be quite choppy and much of the English wording feels like a sketch of a scene rather than something fleshed out fully, but I don’t think it’s fair to apply that impression to MXTX herself or the novel as a whole in Chinese.

More about ExR: I also got the sense that they have a strong bl and yaoi bias as you mentioned, mostly from the translator’s notes. And in general, okay, that’s fine, they’re working with a particular market of fans and I’m just not as much a part of that market. I knew going in that I wasn’t the target audience. I’m okay with that. What I was less okay with was getting to the end and reading the actual author’s notes in translation and finding that the author herself expressed a much more nuanced, considerate, and balanced approach to the story and her writing process than I had been led to believe by the translation and the translator’s notes. And so when people want to criticize the author for things that happen in the translation…. I just think it’s very important to remember that the translator is also a factor, as is the influence of the cultivation genre, and the nature of web novels, and the original intended audience. As you said, white western LGBT people were never the intended recipients of this work. It comes from a totally different context. But I think it’s also important to remember that, again as you noted, it wasn’t first written as a professional work. It was literally a daily-updated webnovel, which works a lot more like a fanfic than a book in terms of approach. And on top of that, it was the author’s second novel (if I’m reading things correctly) and one that they experimented with a lot of new elements in. Those elements earn a lot of forgiveness and benefit of a doubt from me.

About MXTX herself: Most of the posts or references to posts that I’ve seen that judge or dismiss her have to do with the stated sexuality of characters who are not Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji. And it just kinda baffles me, because this is fandom. Most of us spend our time writing about characters who are stated to be straight all the time. Why is anyone getting up in arms about this? How can anyone in fandom just summarily dismiss an author for producing original work that centers around a gay relationship when that’s… literally what most of us write, to some extent or another? Again, I’m not saying there’s aren’t aspects that can be criticized in her stories, but the hypocrisy is kind of amazing. I think that fandom, as a culture overall, has issues with treating gay men and their relationships as toys rather than people, and individuals can address their own behavior on that as they learn and grow. That doesn’t mean that every work about gay men having sex is fetishistic, and honestly I’d say that the translator demonstrates more of that attitude than the actual story ever does. The smut is such an incredibly tiny part of the world, plots and character arcs in MDZS that it could be taken out without significantly changing the main narrative very easily. That’s… not fetishistic. That’s smut as part of an overarching romance plot.

Which leads me to the tropes discussion. Yes, obviously there are tropes in MDZS. There are tropes in every story. It’s not a failing, it’s part of writing. Are some of those tropes BL or Yaoi tropes? Sure. Wei Wuxian denying his own sexuality for much of the novel and his tendency toward submission and rape fantasy are some of the very first tropes mentioned in relation to the genre. That Wei Wuxian just sort of seamlessly moves from “pff, I’m NOT a cutsleeve, I’m just acting like one” to shouting “Lan Zhan, I really want you to fuck me” in front of friends, enemies and family without much of a process for dealing with the culture of homophobia around him also seems to be characteristic of the genre. But I think that’s about where it ends. You and @three--rings both made some good points about the nature of the actual relationship, which I agree with: There’s not much of a power play element, or an assigned gender roles element. They’re both virgins who only partially know what they’re doing from looking at illustrations of porn, and they do enthusiastically want to have sex with each other. They’re just bad at negotiating their kinks clearly and could use a decent sex ed manual. The trope I actually have the most issue with is the use of alcohol. I personally despise the trope of “I’ll get someone drunk on purpose for reasons that benefit me personally,” due to my own real life experiences. But it’s an exceedingly common trope in Western media (Idk about Chinese media, but my guess would be it exists there too), and it’s not exclusive to mlm smut scenarios. It’s pretty much everywhere. And, thankfully, Wei Wuxian does seem to eventually realize that he’s fucking things up by using it. That said, despite knowing what happens to him when he drinks, La Wangji keeps doing it. So they’re both contributing to that mess, no matter how much I dislike that it exists, and the narrative doesn’t actually condone it. No one says “Oh, Wei Wuxian, that’s such a good idea, that’s definitely something you should keep doing.” He is consistently warring with himself over it but unable to resist. It’s still dubcon and manipulation, and I certainly understand people not wanting to read it. I just also think that reducing the entire relationship down to “bad, terrible, fetishistic BL tropes” requires the reader to ignore large parts of the story and pretty evident intent on the parts of both the characters and the author.

On purity culture: Yeah, that’s obviously been cropping up all over the place the past several years (I have indeed been in marvel for ages :P). It does seem like there are places in fandom (to some degree any fandom), where “I don’t like how this idea was executed in this context” gets conflated with “This entire work is terrible,” which is a disservice to everyone involved. I agree that there are many things that can be legitimately criticized in MDZS, but I also just… really don’t understand where this attitude comes from that because something is not perfect, it’s trash. Wasn’t fandom essentially invented out of the desire to respond to canon? To make it more your own? Isn’t picking out the parts you like and ignoring the bits you don’t (or writing around the bits you hate until you can fit them in a shape you like better) pretty much what all fic is about? Aren’t those holes people are sticking their fingers into and complaining about opportunities for more fan content?  But even more than “purity culture” I would term it “entitlement culture,” because a lot of it seems to be about the idea that media should fit into and support a certain set of beliefs at all times. A lot of fandoms are no longer an atmosphere of “I don’t like the way this is presented so I’m going to create my on version that works for me.” Instead there’s a growing element of “I don’t like the way this is presented so that means it’s wrong and bad and the original creator should admit that it’s wrong and bad and fix it to satisfy me.” And honestly? That’s just sad to me. More and more, we’re not having a conversation with canon, or even with each other. We’re not building what we want to see we’re just… tearing other people down. I really don’t understand what anyone finds fun in that, and I’m going to do my best to keep creating the things I actually do want to see instead.

[alwaysspeakshermind]

Top 5 Anti-Varchie Arguments & Why They Make No Sense

#5: “Varchie’s so bland/there’s no chemistry between them at all.”

[Note: I would like to apologize in advance to anyone/everyone upon whose timelines I’m inflicting this series of semi-rant-y posts. Someone on Pinterest felt the urge to leave an outraged comment about why they hate Varchie on one of my pictures (clearly, they confused Pinterest with Twitter/Tumblr/Instagram), and it was so unnecessary and full of all the usual incorrect twaddle I see used on SM to discount A&V’s relationship that it annoyed me and made me decide to go ahead and start writing all the refutations I’ve been keeping to myself since S2 released its first trailer and the essay-length grumbles began. Because as much as I try to steer clear of entering this type of fight, I have trouble standing by when obviously-wrong conclusions are being drawn from obviously-misconstrued information and being presented as fact. And since it doesn’t take me long to write analysis-type posts, my usual ‘I don’t have time for this nonsense’ excuse is kind of removed.]

Right, so…chemistry. Two quick things:

Number one, on-screen chemistry is about rapport between actors, and just because a specific romantic pairing does not personally do it for you does not mean that they lack chemistry. 

Number two, in acting/performance art, chemistry is a tangible, quantifiable aspect necessary to any and all interactions between performers, so it is essentially false to state that any pairing that has made it to TV is utterly without chemistry. For writers to allow a couple to happen at all, for actors to even be cast in the first place, at least some chemistry must be present; it’s simply a matter of what kind of chemistry each pairing has, how much, and how well that chemistry translates onscreen.

Random example: Prior to Friends, Lisa Kudrow (Phoebe) was cast as Roz in Fraiser, but was subsequently replaced with Peri Gilpin because the latter’s onscreen chemistry was better with Kelsey Grammer (Fraiser). It was not a romantic chemistry issue. It was not a no chemistry, period between the actors issue. It was just that there wasn’t enough of the right kind of chemistry, which made the Kudrow/Grammar dynamic less compelling than desired.

Chemistry is, however, notoriously difficult to explain if you’re not familiar with most generally accepted forms of film-criticism, so I feel it’s useless to try proving anything with examples pulled directly from source material—for instance, anyone relatively adept at dissecting performance can see at once how the entire Riverdale pilot showcases the chemistry between Archie and Veronica so that the closet scene feels like a natural culmination of something that began the second they saw each other. If you can watch that episode from start to finish, pronounce “no chemistry” and actually believe it, providing textual evidence and defining terms is going to be a waste of time.

So instead, I’ll take the common sense route and just point out you may rest assured that with Riverdale, a show based in roughly half a century’s worth of comic history, everyone involved in the casting knew going into it that romantic chemistry between the actors playing Archie and Veronica was an absolute must. KJ Apa and Camila Mendes would not be playing the parts they are if they were unable to create any sort of romantic chemistry between them, and S1 would most certainly not have chosen to set up a Varchie relationship from the get-go—much less have continued to emphasize a budding Varchie relationship throughout—if that romantic chemistry had not translated onscreen. Ditto for S2 and S3.

Also, take my word for it: I’m here. It takes a *lot* of chemistry for me to get involved in a ship (to the point that nearly every ship I have ever shipped has involved actors who were married/dating at the time, or eventually married/began dating), and it really takes a lot of chemistry to get me involved with a teen ship because I didn’t like most teen shows back when I was a teen. Yet Varchie’s chemistry popped enough onscreen to reel me in. 

What does all this have to with anything?

Well, in short, claiming Archie and Veronica are “bland” or “without chemistry” is attempting to apply objective terms to a subjective opinion, so if you’re going to do that, it automatically opens your contention up to a couple of counter-arguments:

(1) You are objectively wrong, because by all acting terms/definitions/standards, Archie and Veronica have chemistry. 

(2) You are objectively wrong because you are in essence saying that you do not see/understand the verifiable evidence set before you. (In other words, you have metaphorically gazed upon the color red and announced “this is not red.”)

(3) You are subjectively wrong because you are stating your based-in-subjectivity opinion as fact which inherently implies that you believe subjectivity is allowable in an argument. And if you believe subjectivity is allowable in an argument, than you are essentially contending that someone else’s opposing opinion is just as valid as yours, meaning anyone who says “Varchie has the best chemistry” is just as correct as you are, and your entire point becomes moot. 

Although you may not like Varchie’s dynamic/prefer another dynamic over theirs, attempting to file your dislike under the headings of blandness or zero chemistry simply labels you as someone who either cannot grasp the concept of chemistry in relation to acting, or someone who is too stubborn to admit to its presence. (And to be frank, neither option paints your intelligence in a favorable light.)

Personally, I’d like to think this argument gets used so often because most people just don’t understand what onscreen chemistry truly is/how it can be platonic or sexual and what denotes platonic or sexual/how it can exist between actors who hate each other and not exist between actors who love each other/how it can be organic or crafted through sheer effort, etc. Or that it keeps recurring because people just don’t interact with enough different types of people to understand that certain actions mean different things depending on who’s doing them.

But while I get that people have different preferences when it comes to romantic dynamics and interpret certain actions differently, based on the always-solid-yet-consistently-underrated performances KJ Apa and Camila Mendes have been delivering since the pilot, I have trouble buying that the oft-repeated cry of “no chemistry” is due solely to a feeble understanding of what that term means. Based on the inconsistent scads of oddball scenes/out-of-context facial expressions I’ve seen cited as “proof,” it seems a lot more like this argument is a camouflaged complaint against storylines people would like to have for their favorite couple, or the fact that one romantic trope was chosen over another (both of which are other posts entirely).

So, yeah. Pro-tip: choosing an argument that puts you in the position of disputing readily-observable facts is never the way to go. 

If you hate the Varchie pairing and want to talk about how much you hate it, okay. It’d be a nice gesture if you didn’t do in the Varchie tags or on people’s pictures that were literally only tagged Archie/Veronica which means you had to search those terms to announce your dislike and who on earth deliberately goes looking for things they hate, seriously, go search happy puppies or something instead, I promise it’ll make you feel better. You’re allowed to hate things, and you’re absolutely allowed to irrationally hate things. Just don’t confuse your irrational hatred with reasonable dislike, because the two reactions are not at all interchangeable. 

Also? Maybe don’t try so hard to justify irrational hatred with the ‘Varchie has no chemistry’ argument, because any viewer with a working brain can see at once that the visible evidence simply doesn’t back you up. And citing a source (scenes from the show) that disproves your entire thesis doesn’t exactly lend credence to your assertion.

[espressotw]

The Truth is... (thoughts)

Humans are an interesting existence. A living, breathing creature yet simultaneously a story taking up space in this universe. A complicated story partially self-created and partially dictated. Perhaps mostly dictated. But the stories are so fundamental to the reality of our existence that they become invisible to our own eyes, like the reality of blood cells taking in and distributing life-giving oxygen. Really, the vast majority of what keeps us alive is entirely invisible to our own eyes.

Remember when you were a kid, laying alone in your bed, unable to sleep. What sort of stories did you tell yourself in those moments when your brain refused to sleep? For me, it was stories of ghostly creatures sneaking around the house. I was safe, as long as the door was closed. The door was somehow impervious to the brainspawn ghosts. So real were these stories that one of my earliest and most vivid childhood memories was a time in which I sobbed tears of such intense, genuine fear that I was unable to move. That story, based on some misunderstanding of physics, told me that the door swinging open and slamming shut, seemingly of its own accord, could only be the result of some dark or evil force trying to threaten me. My confused mother, holding me tight, tried and failed to explain the forces of air pressure that acted on the door in my dark bedroom that night. 

Perhaps you didn’t think of this as a story, but I think it's important to call it what it is. As a child of six or seven, there was simply no way I could have understood the existence of air as real matter with mass and volume that could act with significant force on the more visible, solid things in my reality. So my brain did what it’s best at, perhaps, if I may be so bold, even what it is meant to do: it told a story. In this case, my associations of apparently self-animating inorganic objects caused a physiological reaction of fear, leading my brain to unfold a scary story of some six-year-old version of demonic forces beyond my perception.

I’ve become so good at telling stories over the years, as many of us have, that it is not only unintentional, but almost unrecognizable. More recently, I told myself a story of redemption. It was a narrative in which I, the morally-matured-and-on-my-way-to self-actualization young adult, felt I had come upon the way I would finally bring myself back to the table with my estranged mother. I finally saw how I could give her the tools to see me on equal terms and simultaneously learn the way of mindfully maintaining my own higher ground rather than sinking myself into the “reality” that was her story. Yes, I’d done it. I’d finally found the way. After more than half a decade of waiting, avoidance, reflection, and growth, I’d finally found the path. 

I was going to teach her about stories and storytelling and about how our interactions were subject to the stories that she was telling herself- and to be fair, the stories I was telling myself- and then approach a reconciliation with a bulwark sensitivity and mindfulness. It all seemed to make sense. It all flowed along the storyline, in narrative pattern. A hook, a time of work and growth, building tension through confrontation until a great climax where she would inevitably- since my methods were correct this time- come around and accept me followed by the happy comedown that follows the reconciliation of long lost loved ones. 

That was the story I told myself. I was so sure of it. I’d matured. I’d grown. I’d been thinking about it for years. How could I be so wrong after so much time and work?

But I was. I was so wrong I’m ashamed to even admit any part of this story. What was I asking her to accept, really? Me? Well, yes, in a sense. But more than that, I was asking her to accept my story. My story that so fundamentally contradicted every aspect of her reality. My story of a genderless, sexually queer, psychadelic, impermanent, internet driven, and most importantly, godless existence. 

My mother, you see, is more or less what we might consider an American Christian Evangelical. A special breed, being of the Mormon tradition, which is in some ways easier and some ways more difficult for me to embrace. Her story is built around ideas like permanence, specifically of the individual and of familial structure. By extension, patriarchal structure and hierarchical structure of god and subject, priesthood holder and disciple. Really, a story with more rigid structure in a sentence than in my entire chapter. 

I’m starting to get a little too big picture here, so I’ll try to reign it back in for the sake of mutual understanding. One example that is perhaps relatable to a vast majority of us by this point. A cough. What does it mean? I had a little bit of a cough today, even a slight headache. This is it, I thought. I have the virus. Everyone in my school will get it. Maybe it’s my fault. Maybe I just manifested symptoms faster. Either way, I have it and our school will shut down. We'll have hundreds of cases in the next couple weeks because I work in a school. I’ll be out of work, so will my colleagues, my friends, the parents of my children. I’m going into the grocery store to buy a few more food items to prepare for quarantine. I walk up to the clerk scanning temperatures as people enter, fully expecting to be just a little over the limit. I make it through. 

But that doesn’t fit my story, so I have to justify it. How? I can change my story by remembering that my family has a quirk where we develop a cough when we’re physically exhausted. That would make sense, I haven’t been sleeping well for a few days. I’ve been working hard. I’ve been stressed. Sure. But I’m a pretty healthy individual and I know my body pretty well, and I just couldn’t convince myself. A cold? No, not like this. There was no other good story. And so my brain found every reason to validate that story. I forgot to wash my hands when I got to school that one day. I opened the door to my apartment building with my bare hands yesterday, maybe I touched my face. I’ve been eating at a local restaurant fairly often. I don’t know their food cleanliness standards, maybe it was there. 

It’s a story we’ve probably all struggled with in the recent past, if not currently. And how much energy have we put into proving or disproving that story? A colleague of mine recently stayed in home quarantine for travel reasons, only to end up fighting this story by himself half the time in what he described as a nightmare of a week (he’s fine). Those of us who have wrestled with this story know how draining it can be. 

But really, it’s no different than any other day. Some stories I live with sound like, ‘I’m the youngest and least experienced at my school, so my ideas are unworthy of sharing.’ Or sometimes, ‘I notice I spend more time prepping than my colleagues, so I must be less capable since I need more time to do the same work.’ These stories are the reason I show up to work at least an hour early every day. They’re the reason I deal with Sunday night anxiety for the first time in my life. They’re the reason I don’t ask for help when part of me knows I should. They’re the reason I finish assignments late. 

The hardest part is that sometimes I’m right! Sometimes I look at a lesson plan or a script written by my colleague and it is objectively of higher quality than my own. And so my brain will confirm its theory. But if I have an idea for a lesson and my colleague says, “Hey, I like that, can I have your template?” No, that’s just a fluke. It’s because I’ve done something similar before at another school. Discard the evidence; it doesn’t fit my story. Thing is, I might not remember the discarded evidence later, even when I should. Even worse, sometimes I get comfortable with a story. Sometimes I want the story to continue, not because it’s good or I like it; no, because it’s familiar. It’s consistent. I already know that story. I know how to cope with it. Anyway, I’m getting a little too big picture again. 

So what stories are you telling yourself?

[serenagaywaterford]

Cate fan here. Cate and Elise explained the focus on Sofie in The Guardian, and in the ABC article that asks "why is the cast so white" where they call Sofie as their "trojan horse". We fully trust Cate in handling this passion project, especially as she and Andrew, her husband, have experience with working on issues concerning refugees. This series also has the support of Rau's sister and the UNHCR. I believe they picked the best of all approaches given this project's long development period.

Good for you. “We fully trust”??? Wtf dude. Who’s “we”? Some Blanchett hivemind?Glad you PERSONALLY fully trust some actor you don’t even know (who names her son after a convicted paedophile, or just jokes about it. *shrug*). I don’t. Nor should I have to.

Why do I get messages like this every fucking time I post my own stupid opinions on this show?

Look, I am not a Cate Blanchett stan. And I especially don’t think everything any actor does is immediately blessed by God and can never, ever be criticized or have weaknesses. I literally said I am going to be patient and see how this show turns out. And me saying Sofie’s story is the least interesting is ONCE AGAIN not stating it is shit and should be erased! You people take everything so black and white. 

Here is a lesson for fans: not everything is an “all or nothing” situation. When I say Yvonne isn’t a great dancer, I am not saying she is fucking terrible and should never dance–which seems to be exactly what the lot of you heard last week based on the responses I got. I just said she isn’t the best ever at something that isn’t even her fucking job! FFS. I love Yvonne as an actress and think she’s absolutely fantastic, in Stateless and other shows. But that doesn’t mean I have to say she’s fucking fantastic at absolutely everything ever or else I lose my “cool fan” points. I don’t give a flying fuck what other people think about how much of a “true fan” I am.This week I say Sofie’s story is the least engaging and I get this random shit about how great Cate Blanchett is(?) and how Sofie is some “Trojan horse”. That doesn’t even make sense!!! Have any of you (them) actually read the Iliad? Being a Trojan horse isn’t a GOOD thing. Unless I guess you’re Achilles, lol. Generally speaking, it’s this: “Something that initially seems innocuous but is ultimately bad or malicious.” Maybe be more careful with words, lmao. I think maybe they meant “conduit”, or something similar. Unless they are actually insinuating that Sofie makes everything way worse for the detainees and is part of the problem. No, they mean she’s a trigger for recognition that something is very wrong in these places and she “brings down” the system–which is all idealistic, revisionist bullshit. Cos while Rau’s story made some big waves, it didn’t stop anything. Sure, SHE got out and so did the Palmer report, which changed some aspects of detention, esp for Australian citizens... And it unearthed like 200 other cases similarly brutal, like Vivian Solon. 

“In politics, the precise relationship between cause and effect is usually unclear. Some of the things that happened in the six months following the release of Cornelia Rau would certainly have happened anyway. Some, most likely, would not. What is clear, however, is that the case of Cornelia Rau shaped public opinion about the treatment of asylum seekers in a way no previous episode had. The Cornelia Rau affair taught the public that the lazy trust it had placed in government – not to inflict on innocents serious harm – was unwarranted. It was able to do this, as almost everyone immediately understood, because the person who had suffered false imprisonment and neglect was not a swarthy, dark-skinned, Islamic outsider. She was “one of us”. If, in February 2005, it had been discovered that a mentally ill Australian woman of Iranian descent had been wrongfully imprisoned, the transformative effect on public opinion would almost certainly have been immeasurably less.”

But activists and doctors are STILL fighting the Australian government over conditions and the mental health concerns of current detainees. Which is what I assume Blanchett and co. are trying to inspire reaction to? Which is a good thing and absolutely nobody is saying it’s not. I am not saying: “Sofie fucking sucks! This whole show is garbage and doesn’t have any compassion for the refugee crisis! Kill her off and just focus on everyone else!” I am saying, of all the stories, hers is the least interesting and the least relevant to the issue of detention camps at this moment (in the show, in history). Obviously. I don’t even understand why this opinion bothers people??? Like, it’s just objectively true that it’s the least relevant to the real crisis and plight of actual refugees jailed in these prisons for years on end. The Rau case happened 15 YEARS AGO. The problem right now is not what happened to her, it’s what’s continuing to happen in other centers--currently.And if you want to talk seriously about mental health issues of detainees in a fictional sense, using a character who IS ALREADY MENTALLY ILL to highlight how these refugees end up suffering serious, chronic, and sometimes fatal mental illnesses is not the best way to do it. Like, jfc, it’s just… okay, I will need 50 pages to explain why this is not the best approach if you really want to talk about mental health in detention centres. You can’t use a rich white girl who had a devastating pre-existing illness that caused her to BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE as your mascot for “Look, how terrible this place is! Everyone goes crazy!” She was already fucked up, she was already so, so, so vulnerable, and this made it a million times worse. The stories that are important are the healthy, perfectly capable refugees from war-torn countries that end up there for NO reason and gradually through constant imprisonment, abuse, neglect, isolation, lack of privacy, and stress DEVELOP illness, and it goes unnoticed and untreated until you have a prison full of broken people, especially children who are trying to kill themselves. And a lot of this is due to the guards and government employees who are actively awful, or merely wilfully blind.

So, excuse me, for stating that SOFIE isn’t the most important character to focus on, or the most interesting. All Sofie’s story does is highlight how oblivious the guards/officials/etc is to the mental welfare of their prisoners, and the inherent problems with the system. Which, yes, is important to a degree but if you can’t get people to care about refugees without insisting the story revolve around a white person… I just… I dunno what to tell you.

Oh, wait, am I stepping on the precious toes of Cate and Yvonne stans? Whatever. Boo hoo. I don’t care. If you’re gonna make a show about such serious issues (including the portrayal of mental illness based on someone’s ACTUAL LIFE!!!), be prepared for people to get critical about the lack of nuance and sensitivity, and the use of TV tropes. And how fucking WHITE-FOCUSED it is. Because, guess what–if it wasn’t and if Cate/Yvonne/Jai/Asher wasn’t in it–you all wouldn’t even be watching this. How about we all just admit that? It has so much attention not because of the story or the issues (that I assume Blanchett wanted to address), but because of the cast and the focus on the white people.

I do not care how much a massively privileged, white, Hollywood star has worked with refugees. That doesn’t absolve them from having bias, making poor decisions, or falling prey to tropes in their film-making. They are HUMAN BEINGS, an especially human beings that live in a very strange otherword of celebrity, constant validation, narcissism, and money. So much money. They can seem like the most grounded people ever but they are not. Anybody who’s spent even 10 minutes in Hollywood knows this. It’s a thick BUBBLE completely detached from the real world we all live in. So, quit acting like these ACTORS are suddenly experts on foreign policy, immigration, governmental processes, politics, law, sociology, economics, mental health, and whatever else. Especially not bigger experts than critics who have spent their whole lives involved in these issues. (I’m not talking about me. I’m a biologist lol.) She is producing a FICTIONAL TV SHOW to raise… awareness? I guess? To me, as of right now, it’s just using “Sofie’s” real story and vaguely touching on some of the issues. And without all that much depth either. Yet.And pardon me if I don’t really care for Rau’s SISTER’S support of the show. It’s not her sister’s story to tell. Sorry. This is about Cornelia herself. (Yes, I have read Rau’s article.) And OF COURSE the UNHCR is supportive. They are supportive of anything that helps raise awareness in a positive way. And, PLEASE NOTE: I once again never said this was a shit show that needs to be cancelled cos it sucks so bad. It does serve a purpose but I have issues with the NARRATIVE STYLE AND DECISIONS they’re making in order to do that. It has nothing to do with the actual issues.Yet. Like, I’ve said a million times and nobody seems to hear, YET. It’s only 2 episodes in and it has plenty of time to get really into the deep issues. They’ve only just brushed over them right now, so I’m happily waiting for the big pay off.

But let’s not all act like this is the first ever attempt to bring awareness of this humanitarian crisis to mainstream Australians and Blanchett is some sort of national refugee activist hero. Like I’ve said before Safe Harbour (in terms of (sometimes soapy) fiction) and Chasing Asylum (in terms of documentary) and even Go Back To Where You Came From (lol reality tv) have all attempted this, and with some stellar results. Go watch any of those and tell me what Stateless is doing that is so amazingly unique and affective. Stateless is just bringing big Hollywood names to the issue, and trying to bring awareness. AND, amazingly, guess what! It doesn’t even have to be a GOOD show to do that. It can be mediocre and still reach the people Blanchett & Co. clearly want to reach and get people thinking. That isn’t necessarily a bad thing. And me criticising little bits of the programme (like Yvonne’s dancing/accent/choice to have her speaking English all the time, or the lack of focus on actual refugee stories, ffs) is not me saying the whole thing is boring, useless garbage and a waste of time. So, y’all need to hop off my dick for two seconds and not just assume that me talking about my opinion of its small weaknesses is saying I hope your faves choke. Gimme a break. And just in case you all are still pissed off about my complaints that Sofie’s story isn’t the most important focus ever, I’ll just dump a few links here:

‘Begging to die’: succession of critically ill children moved off Nauru

Australia: Reverse Cruel Refugee Policy

'Australia is a bigger cage’: the ongoing trauma of Nauru’s child refugees

How Australia turned its back on the world’s refugee crisis

Mental health crisis in Australia’s refugee camps

The mental health of asylum seekers in Australia and the role of psychiatrists

Christmas Island detention centre’s conditions stoke tension, detainee says

Australia blocks asylum seekers held offshore from seeking medical care in the country

Nauru: MSF report shows disastrous mental health impact of Australian refugee policy

‘Someone needs to say, enough’: Mental health on Manus Island

Nauru asylum seekers’ mental health as bad as torture victims, doctors say

Nauru detention centre: Abuse and trauma reports leaked

Australia’s man-made crisis on Nauru: Breaking Women

The Nauru files: cache of 2,000 leaked reports reveal scale of abuse of children in Australian offshore detention

Australia: Appalling Abuse, Neglect of Refugees on Nauru

Australia to reopen Christmas Island detention center after defeat on refugee policy

UN body says Australia breached human rights laws and needs to review Migration Act

And yes, most of these are offshore centres (some of which have effectively closed now), but it’s not even counting the ones actually in Australia itself, many of which are still operational: List of Australian immigration detention facilities

And yeah… The unknown story of Cornelia Rau. Just as a reality check of what Sofie’s story is meant to be. It’s absolutely horrifying, devastating and incredibly sad, and not something to be glamourised or sensationalised for woke points. 

So, sorry (NOT SORRY) for saying Rau/Sofie’s story isn’t the most important part of this whole MASSIVELY COMPLEX thing, nor is it even close to the most interesting aspect of the crisis. I do get why they chose her story as a vehicle to unlock the issue for all the other white, middleclass Aussies (and others) watching but I still don’t think it’s the most interesting aspect of the SHOW. That’s all. I’m not saying it’s pointless to tell “Sofie’s” story, or that I don’t like it, or it’s entirely irrelevant. Just it’s not the most important thing to me.

I can’t believe I have to say this again but just so we are all on the same page:

I HAVE NO BIG PROBLEM WITH “STATELESS”. I DON’T HATE IT. IT IS A GOOD, WELL-ACTED, WELL-PRODUCED, ENGAGING, DECENT SHOW THAT IS ATTEMPTING TO TAKE ON A HUGE, COMPLEX ISSUE IN A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. I THINK IT’S ADMIRABLE THAT EVEN MORE ATTENTION IS TRYING TO BE BROUGHT TO THE ISSUE AND GOOD FOR BLANCHETT FOR PUSHING FOR IT. I JUST WANT MORE FOCUS ON THE RELEVANT ISSUES TO THIS TIME PERIOD.

What’s the point in raising awareness and putting heavy focus on something awful that happened 15 years ago and has been resolved (more or less, cos nothing is ever totally resolved in politics)? Let’s focus on the terrible shit that hasn’t been resolved yet. Acting like Sofie’s story would happen today is just so far from reality when you are aware of all the changes made and results of the Rau situation. Any criticisms I have of the show or its actors do not mean I hate the show and think it’s stupid and pointless. Just, if it was my show, I’d do it slightly differently. THAT’S ALL. But it’s not my show and I could never produce TV so don’t get all your knickers’ in a twist over my personal opinions about trivial shit. No need to come into my inbox on a weekly basis and try to school me about Yvonne, Cate, etc. I can have opinions on actors/TV shows, even if you think they’re stupid. If you think my opinions are wildly misinformed on politics/storytelling/etc, that's fair. Maybe they are. Tumblr is certainly not the best platform for me to lay out all my thoughts in a coherent way. But so far I don’t have anybody coming at me about the actual issues, just getting butthurt that I’m not kissing your fave’s ass. (Keep in mind, Yvonne is one of my fav actresses too. I’m just not insanely obsessed with her.)

God. I am turning off anon cos every week now I say anything even remotely, mildly critical of some minor aspect of Stateless I get bombarded with this kind of condescending shit from rabid stans of the actors. If you can’t put your name to it, I’m not interested in your thoughts anymore. Sorry. I’m tired. And my inbox is tired lol.

[datesoma]

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Type 4, THE INDIVIDUALIST

The Sensitive, Introspective Type: Expressive, Dramatic, Self-Absorbed, and Temperamental

Type Four in Brief

Fours are self-aware, sensitive, and reserved. They are emotionally honest, creative, and personal, but can also be moody and self-conscious. Withholding themselves from others due to feeling vulnerable and defective, they can also feel disdainful and exempt from ordinary ways of living. They typically have problems with melancholy, self-indulgence, and self-pity. At their Best: inspired and highly creative, they are able to renew themselves and transform their experiences.

Basic Fear: That they have no identity or personal significance

Basic Desire: To find themselves and their significance (to create an   identity)

Enneagram Four with a Five-Wing: "The Bohemian"

Key Motivations: Want to express themselves and their individuality, to create and surround themselves with beauty, to maintain certain moods and feelings, to withdraw to protect their self-image, to take care of emotional needs before attending to anything else, to attract a "rescuer."

When moving in their Direction of Disintegration (stress), aloof Fours suddenly become over-involved and clinging at Two. However, when moving in their Direction of Integration (growth), envious, emotionally turbulent Fours become more objective and principled, like healthy Ones.

Type Four Overview

We have named this type The Individualist because Fours maintain their identity by seeing themselves as fundamentally different from others. Fours feel that they are unlike other human beings, and consequently, that no one can understand them or love them adequately. They often see themselves as uniquely talented, possessing special, one-of-a-kind gifts, but also as uniquely disadvantaged or flawed. More than any other type, Fours are acutely aware of and focused on their personal differences and deficiencies.

Healthy Fours are honest with themselves: they own all of their feelings and can look at their motives, contradictions, and emotional conflicts without denying or whitewashing them. They may not necessarily like what they discover, but they do not try to rationalize their states, nor do they try to hide them from themselves or others. They are not afraid to see themselves “warts and all.” Healthy Fours are willing to reveal highly personal and potentially shameful things about themselves because they are determined to understand the truth of their experience—so that they can discover who they are and come to terms with their emotional history. This ability also enables Fours to endure suffering with a quiet strength. Their familiarity with their own darker nature makes it easier for them to process painful experiences that might overwhelm other types.

Nevertheless, Fours often report that they feel they are missing something in themselves, although they may have difficulty identifying exactly what that “something” is. Is it will power? Social ease? Self-confidence? Emotional tranquility?—all of which they see in others, seemingly in abundance. Given time and sufficient perspective, Fours generally recognize that they are unsure about aspects of their self-image—their personality or ego-structure itself. They feel that they lack a clear and stable identity, particularly a social persona that they feel comfortable with.

While it is true that Fours often feel different from others, they do not really want to be alone. They may feel socially awkward or self-conscious, but they deeply wish to connect with people who understand them and their feelings. The “romantics” of the Enneagram, they long for someone to come into their lives and appreciate the secret self that they have privately nurtured and hidden from the world. If, over time, such validation remains out of reach, Fours begin to build their identity around how unlike everyone else they are. The outsider therefore comforts herself by becoming an insistent individualist: everything must be done on her own, in her own way, on her own terms. Fours’ mantra becomes “I am myself. Nobody understands me. I am different and special,” while they secretly wish they could enjoy the easiness and confidence that others seem to enjoy.

Fours typically have problems with a negative self-image and chronically low self-esteem. They attempt to compensate for this by cultivating a Fantasy Self—an idealized self-image which is built up primarily in their imaginations. A Four we know shared with us that he spent most of his spare time listening to classical music while fantasizing about being a great concert pianist—à la Vladimir Horowitz. Unfortunately, his commitment to practicing fell far short of his fantasized self-image, and he was often embarrassed when people asked him to play for them. His actual abilities, while not poor, became sources of shame.

In the course of their lives, Fours may try several different identities on for size, basing them on styles, preferences, or qualities they find attractive in others. But underneath the surface, they still feel uncertain about who they really are. The problem is that they base their identity largely on their feelings. When Fours look inward they see a kaleidoscopic, ever-shifting pattern of emotional reactions. Indeed, Fours accurately perceive a truth about human nature—that it is dynamic and ever changing. But because they want to create a stable, reliable identity from their emotions, they attempt to cultivate only certain feelings while rejecting others. Some feelings are seen as “me,” while others are “not me.” By attempting to hold on to specific moods and express others, Fours believe that they are being true to themselves.

One of the biggest challenges Fours face is learning to let go of feelings from the past; they tend to nurse wounds and hold onto negative feelings about those who have hurt them. Indeed, Fours can become so attached to longing and disappointment that they are unable to recognize the many treasures in their lives.

Leigh is a working mother who has struggled with these difficult feelings for many years.

“I collapse when I am out in the world. I have had a trail of relationship disasters. I have hated my sister’s goodness—and hated goodness in general. I went years without joy in my life, just pretending to smile because real smiles would not come to me. I have had a constant longing for whatever I cannot have. My longings can never become fulfilled because I now realize that I am attached to ‘the longing’ and not to any specific end result.”

There is a Sufi story that relates to this about an old dog that had been badly abused and was near starvation. One day, the dog found a bone, carried it to a safe spot, and started gnawing away. The dog was so hungry that it chewed on the bone for a long time and got every last bit of nourishment that it could out of it. After some time, a kind old man noticed the dog and its pathetic scrap and began quietly setting food out for it. But the poor hound was so attached to its bone that it refused to let go of it and soon starved to death.

Fours are in the same predicament. As long as they believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with them, they cannot allow themselves to experience or enjoy their many good qualities. To acknowledge their good qualities would be to lose their sense of identity (as a suffering victim) and to be without a relatively consistent personal identity (their Basic Fear). Fours grow by learning to see that much of their story is not true—or at least it is not true any more. The old feelings begin to fall away once they stop telling themselves their old tale: it is irrelevant to who they are right now.

[gg-astrology]

Kim Namjoon: Inner Planets Natal Reading

💕 Hello! In preparation for Namjoon’s birthday, and celebration of Namjoon being nominated for the most handsomest faces this year. I’m here to GUSH about a certain Virgo boy! There’ll be a NJ Birthday Project series coming out so please look forward to that as well! 💕

PS. In this post I also touched on JK and Jimin since they share similar placements to Namjoon, I hope you don’t mind!💕

Taehyung Inner Planet Natal Reading | Taehyung - Members: Relationship Dynamics

Jungkook Inner Planet Natal Reading

BTS Rapline Mini Analysis | BTS Summary: Mars - Destressing

Virgo Boys (Namjoon - Jungkook) Masterlist 

 Masterlist (other groups, gg, soloist, co-eds) 

*answered asks about BTS members romantic stuff is at the bottom of the masterlist

(uwu im so soft for him he’s adorable) 

💕Disclaimer: I’m not claiming to be an expert astrologer nor do I know these people personally. These are my interpretations and how they’re working based on my experiences/studies on them. Everyone has different opinions/studies in astrology, please be mindful of others and all interpretation/experiences is valid to an extent. However, feel free to make your own post or skip if you strongly disagree. There might be inaccuracy and difference in opinions. But the point of this post is to entertain and relate. I’m hoping to help people with similar experiences and get people excited about astrology. Also, since we don’t know most of their birth times, I’m using the standard 12.00pm💕

Kim Namjoon (RM)

Note: Each placement/sign is split into mini sections for easier reading. Again, these aren’t flushed out. They’re just my interpretations. There are different component/sides to the sign that I didn’t touch on. 

September 12th 1994 (Illsan, South Korea)

Virgo Sun | 2nd Decan (Saturn/Capricorn)

Ok first of all, he’s a lot harder on himself than we realize and it’s not just because he’s thoughtful (that Libra Mercury) 

With his Sun (ego/esteem) being in Virgo with the sub-ruler in Capricorn/Saturn, he might find himself being pretty self-critical, prone to putting himself down/talking to himself in order to ‘snap himself out of it’/understand himself better.

Understanding that Saturn brings a disciplinarian attitude. Sometimes towards their external environment (Capricorn) and to themselves (Virgo). 

They tend to be pretty hard-headed (stubborn) when faced with opposition/challenges in life because there’s always that sense of confronting/overcoming the adversaries in order to feel accomplished in themselves

Sun-ego/self-esteem/sense of self is tied into this ‘serious’ undertone Capricorn/Saturn brings. Demonstrated into an attitude towards work, that is more somber (in tone) when he’s working towards accomplishments/achievements he wants to have/create. 

It’s part of the reason why he has a very humbling acceptance/response to his successes. He’s always very tenacious/driven about doing the actual back work, so the result/rewards of the progress is balanced through Virgo’s modest, calmer charm. (Capricorn cardinal pushing for his successes, Virgo mutable gracefully and tactfully accepting those successes. Sun-decan)    

Virgo also has a sturdiness that is tinted from Capricorn/Saturn influence, giving it an inner conviction that backs his opinion.

Meaning that while he might be very opinionated, he’s often very stubborn as well.   

A Virgo-Virgo (JK) might be more hot-headed, but a Virgo-Capricorn/ Virgo-Taurus is a lot more hard-headed. 

There’s this sturdiness (‘pushiness’) in expressing his ideas/desire without backing down. But whilst Virgo-Taurus can be obstinately pushy, a Virgo-Capricorn has a slight distinction. There’s a maturity to them (being the oldest of the earth signs) that will actually concede to another, if the point being made objectively surpassing their own ability to contribute to the argument/conversation (for the better good).

With Virgo-Capricorn, whether they’re the teacher or the student here, if they could learn something/concede to the point being made then they’ll back down/accept their role as the student. 

But if they think their points are contributing to the greater good (surpassing their counterparts) the they absolutely would not back down. (pridefulness/ego as well)

Cardinal tint (Capricorn)- confronts himself/others, in order to achieve what his Sun wants/need. 

Fixed tint (Taurus) - convinced in his own desire/opinions, perseverance to achieve what his Sun wants/needs.

The big question here is whether he knows what he wants/needs or not. Whilst Fixed tint are often able to carry out their perseverance because they tend to know (intuitively sometimes) what’s better for themselves. The Cardinal here is about learning/growing as they go.

Combined that with the naturally mutable Virgo, a lot of the time it’s through fighting/growing like this that he figures out what he wants and what he desires to nourish his soul. 

It’s a lot of internal debate and self-questioning, transitioning and growing as he faces dangers and challenges in his life. 

A lot of the time, they do go through fluxes of ups and downs just because their emotional/inner need can tend to influence their subconscious and mind/thoughts a lot.  

His ego/self-esteem wants to understand itself, wants to solve what it wants externally. Virgo-Capricorn can pull this internal self-analysis outwards instead of letting it bounce around inside instead. (see: Namjoon talking to himself, figuring himself out, having a lot of thoughts on who he is and some of his existential crisis is reflected in his musics/lyrics/thoughts/notes) 

Sometimes letting it bounce around inside can feel really constricting, because Virgo can often have this ‘simplification process’ going on inside of them already (take notice of it, like an internal organization system that wants to put everything in order/hierarchy to make externalizing thoughts easier for the Virgo natives themselves.) 

When the idea/desire seems to be a bigger problem there’s a natural tendency to ‘flatten’ the dimensionality of the thought/desire to make it more manageable for themselves. 

However, with a Capricorn decan there’s a desire/inquiring need to actually pull it outwards to study it deeper. Capricorn (cardinal) doesn’t just talk about pursuing something, it’s also pulling it’s depth out as well (like Scorpio’s intensity/focus, but Capricorn tends to focus on it in a tangible way/thus pull it outwards).  

When you pull the thought outwards, it has more range to expand itself in because it’s not constricted by just his sun anymore. It’s his Mercury, Venus, Moon, Mars helping it as well.

Like chemicals sometimes, contained inside a bottle it’s not reacting to anything. But once you put it in a test tube, it might start reacting to air/water/solubles you add to it. Putting thoughts/ideas out of the container (inside of himself) and exposing it to the elements (external factors) adding solubles (influences of placements) to it creates a reaction, a way to understand/build up this sense of self (Sun) is to get exposure. Even if that exposure is merely, saying it aloud or putting the thought into existence. Manifestation is key (Capricorn externalization helping Virgo internal thoughts desire/process becoming more solid) 

A lot of the time, the best method is a lot like sound-boarding off of himself. Virgo is a mercurial sign that talks about tangibility (earth, Mercury ruled), Capricorn helps express that.He wants some sort of organization in his life. 

One of the biggest challenge Virgo-Capricorn faces is feeling out of control (not really understanding certain part of themselves.)

They dig deep into the smaller details (Virgo) of what makes them do that certain thing. And then it bothers them so much, they might find themselves wanting to pull it out of themselves. 

Since Virgo are capable of doing most of the verbally expressing part on their own already, the difficulty natives might find themselves facing is that it’s not solid enough/substantial enough to confront the problem. (leads to confusion, taking breaks, not really understanding how to help themselves sometimes esp since it’s the Sun)

Capricorn helps with the confronting aspect, it helps enables this act of externalizing and creating substance from the thought because of it’s Saturn/Cardinal nature. And as a grounded/very set earth-sign.  

It helps manifests the thoughts/ideas/desire of the Sun physically. Makes it more grounded/tangible - link the thought to things to actually do about it, resources, reference, expansion on the idea without losing train of thoughts), so he can face it instead of struggle with it internally. 

That’s what I mean by sturdier, just the resourcefulness/steady-handedness Capricorn brings to Virgo Sun’s desire, helping it out/supporting it. (Sun-decan) 

Virgo dimensionality (2-D-ness) could be restricting, and Capricorn usually has a huge depth of thoughts/emotions to them (that they unfortunately just like suppressing).

Placement-decans are usually see-sawing off of each other’s strength and weaknesses. This is Capricorn using it’s organizational and depth (best attribute) to help Virgo solve it’s disorganization/dimensionality problem.

So the commonality between them is organization/structure, but their difference/aptitude helps each other out (in a very earth sign way: compromising for progress/better good) 

Capricorn’s worse trait is it’s suppression of it’s own depth. But as a decan, it’s not really forcing Namjoon to restrict himself. It helps him to face his own problems/confront things inside himself that Virgo brings to the table. The problems (confusion) being addressed is Virgo’s problem, Capricorn does it’s best to help progress/further it a long (and if it can’t contribute constructively, then they both have to learn how to adapt/collaborate unplanned. Bc earth signs.)

This is the difference between Sun-decan, the rulership/power dynamic is always for the purpose of benefiting from one another/supporting one another. Besides giving a tonality/personality to the ruling sign, it also adds an element of support/attributes to it help it progress as well. 

So you can see it as a kind of team work here. Instead of Capricorn taking the reign it’s just-- what he expresses in his face. This serious side of Namjoon/his more sober nature we don’t really get to see is the Capricorn decan in his Sun. 

It’s the process he has to go through in order to come post-production on broadcast (vlive behind, interview, etc.) when Libra Mercury can take the reign -- talking about the product of his Sun. (see further in the Moon section and Mercury section below) 

That’s part of why Namjoon’s so forthright and honest with his thoughts/feelings-- because if it comes from inside himself, the deepest part of his thoughts and his sincerity/integrity (sun - sense of self, ego, desire) then everything he’s saying/talking about he has conviction behind it. (Capricorn helping backed/sustain the Virgo’s desire/thoughts/wants)

He truly believes in what he’s saying, and if he doesn’t then it’s going to eat him up on the inside first. (Virgo internally/dimensionality, Capricorn need for depth/intensity)

Virgo Sun: Libra Mercury 

With Namjoon the significance of his Sun here is crucial. Most likely, its probably his strongest/sturdiest core. If he has a good solid base to work from, then this Virgo (Mercury ruled) is influencing how it’s being used in his Libra Mercury as well. 

It helps with understanding how eloquent the Libra Mercury comes across, as well as Namjoon’s involvement in his intellect (it fuels his own Sun). So it’s like, grinding/good concept -> push it onto Libra Mercury to externalize. 

Case study: compare it to Jimin who has the same Libra Mercury, you can see the similarity in style of speech (divert, smoothing over, etc) but Namjoon seems to have a focus on self-improvement (in a different way than Jimin does) self-reflection/evaluation (critically), on-going thoughts/ideas that sub verge with each other and concepts (post-production stage: conclusion of what he’s read/seen/observed) -- it’s not just all from his Sagittarius Moon (yes, he speaks with emotional investment there) but it’s also from his Sun. 

His desire to pursue, share and truly connect has to come from his Sun. Otherwise there’s no real sense of fulfillment or ‘self-love’ there for him. 

If it’s not fueling his own sense of self, his desire or his honest wants/needs (Sun) then it’s never going to be satisfying enough for him. It’ll become a yo-yo effect because he can only sustain it for a certain amount of time. If it’s just from his Moon (or any other placements), the emotional satisfaction and growth only goes for so long without another support (in this case, the Sun) behind it. 

Values of placements, signs and power in each person’s chart is different. But just from first-view/brief observation you can see that it plays an importance to him consciously (not intentional but if you pay attention, there’s a strong Virgo sense to him there when he’s expressing himself/his core beneath the other placements)

Jimin’s similar in how his Sun actually supports his Mercury here. With them both being in Libra, you can see how Jimin’s focus is different. 

When they talk, Jimin’s speech is a similar style to Namjoon (smoothing over, harmonic, over-arching) but his focus seems to be on desire/goals(personal ambition), relationship (socially), balance/justice (harmony) and compromising (peace). 

Their focus differs because it’s backed by different signs/placements.

In one of Namjoon’s vlive he’d mentioned before that Jimin and him are actually quite similar. Part of it is because they share that Libra Mercury (and Scorpio Venus) but while that means they do have similar style of thoughts (have thought/touched around the subject before) the pursuing of their focus they choose to really invest in (things they care about/fuel them individually) are different. 

They’re supportive of each other because they have similar ideas/style/thoughts, but they’re different from each other because the backing (emotional attachment/sense of fulfillment/self-expression) are personal to them individually (intimate to their own persons)

So now we look at the details. While they’re similar with their Libra Mercury, Namjoon’s tone and motivation (influenced by the backing) much more forceful than Jimin is. 

(Jimin is forceful in a different way, his tone is different from Namjoon. I’ll touch on that more when I do his actual inner planet reading)

His Sun (Virgo-Capricorn) has a pushiness to it, a serious/soberness that still comes through. A stubbornness/testament to his struggles (processing point) from earlier before he reaches this post-production part (the actual sharing with the world part). 

The disciplinarian Sun-tint definitely comes through. Capricorn here gives him less of a focus on the harmonic, but more of a teacher/authority to his voice. 

When he’s being the leader, making speech, it comes through this way. 

Jimin has a different tone/style than Namjoon (with the same Mercury, but backed up differently). He tends to go for a smooth style of speech and a quieter/linker type of speaker (in both public and private). His style is more about the transition/being tactful than Namjoon’s forceful/authoritative nature 

Consider: looking at Namjoon talking in private/public + Jimin talking in private/public -- there’s a difference, not just because Namjoon’s a leader and Jimin supports his ideas. But also what is pulling them together and distincting them apart in their individual style of speaking as well. 

Thoughts align similarly, supportive of each other. But the focus/compliments Jimin brings to light about Namjoon is what Jimin focuses on/is backed up from, which Namjoon is different to.  

Back to Namjoon, there’s more conviction and purpose here. If it’s supported by his Sun: when he says things from the heart he’s much sturdier than being caught off guard with just his Libra Mercury. (The importance of being supported/working well with your placement) 

Virgo Sun: Virgo ‘messiness’/Understanding Themselves

A bit more on Virgo Sun-Capricorn decan: A lot of the time when he has his inner-thoughts/figuring himself out moments, in the long-run it looks like it’s sporadic but on-going. (meaning: not during the process, but it’s habitual behaviour since pre-debut -> now) 

It’s not like Namjoon is constantly on the grind to discover himself as his main goal (dig himself deeper into the hole) nor is he heavily burdened trying to look for the ‘one true answer’ so he can get his life organized and start doing stuff (like a sudden ‘aha! i figure my life goals/wants out now’ moment) -- we’re just trying to look at how he works.

The mutable quality (Virgo) here is good for him because it makes him take breaks from the Capricorn’s pursuit/grind. And the Capricorn is good for him because it gives him long-term perseverance and goals to achieve/look forward to in the future. 

It’s good to be ‘sporadic’ since Virgo would need the time/space to recover and re-organize. It’s also good that it’s ‘on-going’ because Capricorn would allow him to continue to move forward and reach different ‘rest stop’ a long the way. (that motion/drive forward, along with enough ‘rest’ and ‘release’ from Virgo)

It’s like a train ride, each station/stop becomes a ‘semi-conclusion/satisfying-enough-solution’ to some part of his life long inquiry/self-discovery journey.   

Hitting a bit more on traits to do with this Virgo-Capricorn Sun (for Namjoon): methods/form of self-pep (talking to himself), writing his thoughts/ideas down, flow-chart/diagrams (visually), lyrics/crafting. Any organizational method for himself to figure out his internal desire would help, but most of all it’s in writing/creating (tangibility)  

The thoughtfulness/overthinking trait probably stems from part of his Sun as well. 

Namjoon’s known for his intellect, and a part of it is because it’s strongly correlated to this Virgo (Virgo - mercury, influencing his Libra Mercury.) His intellect is part of his sense of pride/ego/self. It’s also what helps him figure himself out a lot of the time.

He’s always going to be observative: talk to himself about himself, about concepts/things that’s bothering him. About the little things and structure and bigger establishment/plans/goals and ideas. (Capricorn decan- Sagittarius Moon) 

He’s always going to question the smallest part of himself and try to structure it somehow. 

It helps with intellectualization, but also visualization/manifesting it into reality. 

Actions he can take to help it out, he will in order to pursue that ‘on-going’-ness he brings.

A lot of the time, he gets so consumed in this part of himself that he tends to neglect/forget his external environment/smaller stuff. Losing things, being organized (in an conventional sense) keeping track of time/things. (Namjoon’s forgetfulness isn’t just his Cancer Mars/Sagittarius Moon-- it’s this Sun as well)

A lot of it has to do with spontaneity that Virgo Sun also brings. He needs to figure it out, or else it eats up at his sense of self and he needs to figure it out now. 

Virgos already have a reputation for being externally organized, and while that might not be true for most Virgo natives that’s the challenge they often face in order to feel in control of themselves. 

A lot of the time, Virgo native probably doesn’t feel like they’re the hot-shit/top-stuff, but that structure that balance/inner fulfillment is what keeps them pursuing things and craving it/desire (Sun). 

They might find themselves doing a lot of things to fill that sense of self, that craving and void that they predict will become filled once they finish certain tasks/do things. There’s a lot of stuff burdening them personally, from their external environment to their deeper inner problem, so it’s just a matter of organizing/making a list/hierarchy to make things manageable for themselves to do. That’s their sense of pursuit and in a way, a resemblance of structure in their life whether they notice it or not. 

It’s not as if they’re extremely messy people, but they’re the one who brings the topic up the most. Namjoon and JK (and Hobi) are the few people who always brings up/mention how ‘messy’ or ‘disorganized’ something is/they are. Even when no one else thinks they are or has mentioned it. 

It’s this Sun’s focus/projection into caring about the little details that’s truly bringing it out. It’s a manifestation of their desire (wanting to clean up/organize/improve) because there’s always more. It’s almost metaphorical in a way, to compare external messiness to their inner thirst for improvement. Attaining that desire/happiness they want to achieve.  

Refer to the gif above, do you see the very organized and all aligned dolls behind him? That’s some Virgo shit right there. Remember his bed? How all his Ryans are stacked in some kind of orderly fashion? 

Namjoon’s not as ‘disorganized’ as he thinks he is. He emphasizes a lot on how he’s messy (verbally) and the things he do that contributes to this messiness (Hobi’s latest vlive in LA tour: Namjoon mentioning how he threw his pillows out of the bed) because it shows that there’s room for improvement, the desire for self-evaluation/being critical of himself = being able to work up to that standard they set up for themselves ( ‘perfectionist ideals’/ ‘standards’ that Virgo Sun aims for) 

Same as Jungkook, who always first to disclaim his external disorganization whenever the topic of visiting his studio/room comes out. But he doesn’t-- nag anyone about it. Namjoon doesn’t either. It’s not the mess anyone else made that matters, it’s the mess they themselves made that they feel is bothering them. 

Objectively, it’s not ‘messiness’ itself, it’s just their own personal senses/thoughts/feelings related to their ‘messiness’ that’s projected outwardly that’s bothering them. They want to be not messy inside. It’s part of why they approve of people who seems well-organized/well-groomed (has their inner shit sorted out) if they have their inner-shit sorted out, then that’s a whole huge bucket they don’t have to suffer through, right?

Also: They’re a lot more pre-occupied with other things (thinking/day-dreaming) to pay attention sometimes. 

(Virgo-Virgo for JK: his mind stuff mostly, Virgo-Capricorn for NJ: his life goals, plans, establishment mostly). But the significance of organization isn’t missed on them (when they ‘wake up’ or ‘come to’ and realize/note their external environment outside this Virgo thinking/day-dreaming bubble.) 

Maybe their sense of internal disorganization makes them anxious/nervous about being judged for their external organization.

Virgos tend to place their energy in trying to have some kind of order/structure about them. 

Often time this backfires in underdeveloped Virgos, they’ll end up over-organizing their external environment to make up for an internal disorganization problem. 

With Namjoon he’s internally disorganized so he relies on routine to create some kind structure in his life (externally: knowing where to go, what to visit, what he likes, his interest/knowing himself or figuring out himself helps a lot with it - part of Sag Moon but also Cancer Mars here as well) 

Virgo being a mercurial makes natives naturally curious. Also being an earth-sign, most of the interest doesn’t have to come to interacting with others. 

They can find enjoyment in studies, puzzles, setting up projects for themselves or even just pursuing personal interests (doll collection, supporting sustainable fashion, etc). Capricorn enables this tangibility quality to Virgo.

Compared to JK’s Virgo-Virgo: JK is much more interested/awed by other people’s thoughts, intellect and style. He’s interested in learning, while Namjoon here is interested in adding materials to himself. To teach and to share with others. His focus is much more self-geared here. 

Virgo Sun: Capricorn Decan - Moments of Solitude and Subtle Affections

Having this Capricorn decan makes him much more sympathetic to others, he exhibits the best quality of Capricorn which is perseverance, long-term studiousness, a sincere nature and an inner gentleness/dedication to his projects (even if he’s frustrated sometimes). 

Along with everything comes with moments of withdrawn. More so than the Virgo native (Virgo-Taurus/Virgo-Virgo), he has to have his moments alone to contemplate.

It’s not a bad thing to be withdrawn, it’s actually really helpful. Instead of being enthusiastic/always moving like JK, Namjoon’s much more cautious/calculative. 

He has the space to think things through, that stability/conclusive conviction in himself. It comes from that Capricorn decan influencing his Sun. 

Also a lot of-- subtleness that comes with Virgo-Capricorn. Namjoon can often comes across as the exact opposite of subtle when it’s about self-expression: he tends to talk very loudly as a way of externalizing himself (see above). 

But when it comes to the-- sentimental things that matters to him, like to people/his family for instance. He demonstrates his love in an almost secretive way.

This isn’t just from Scorpio Venus (intimacy) it’s about dedication and timelessness. He wants his affection to be noticed, but he’s not going to go about it in a very up-front/pure-emotion kind of way. 

Imagine a Virgo Venus but even more reserved (in the beginning stages of being interested), because of the Capricorn decan. That’s him wanting to reach out to people, but sometimes comes across a block-solid wall in his own self-expression (Capricorn-Virgo).

A huge part of the sun is their relation to others and how they express themselves. Y know since Leo-- a sign ruled by the Sun, talks about externalizing itself/self- expression. It doesn’t make sense if we don’t touch on it from other sign’s experience as well.  

Virgo-Capricorn can have a stiffness with demonstration, when viewed from another person’s perspective. 

Namjoon is definitely not all soft and gushy, in fact if there’s talks about emotions that he’s not prepared for he’s going to distance himself away/make fun of it (Sag-Virgo/Cap- err on the side of caution sometimes/flighty despite being foolhardy on other things they’re ‘prepared’ for.) 

It’s also part of that Virgo-Capricorn pride, whether subconsciously or not, there’s an unwillingness to be seen as weak that does tend to get the best of him sometimes. (Most commonly seen in pre-debut Namjoon: hip hop versus idol persona)

Especially since Capricorn decan hardens him to cruise through rough waves, when it comes to confronting the soft-sanded beaches he can feel like it’s hard to step onto/sinking into his feet that lacks the sturdiness/stability he’s used to.  

Besides the need to have his own space/be alone in order to live with others for a long-period of time (he mentions how he’s seen/lived with the members for a long time, not like Yoongi who brings up the fact every 5 seconds but with Namjoon it’s mostly said in a joking manner/casual co-habitation) 

Namjoon’s Virgo emphasized by this Capricorn decan also makes him very giving to those around him. He’s very conscious of what he puts out, Virgo’s ‘serving’/ ‘helpful’ nature is encouraged by Capricorn’s sincerity/cardinal nature.

He often finds himself much more conscious of himself than of others, wants/desire to take others by their words/face value when he knows he can trust them. This limits his social circle quite a bit because he’s selective of the people he puts trusts in. 

It’s partially a consequence of his withdrawn trait (lack of action, conserving strength in order to pursue other stuff), but also a conscious/natural suspicion of others around him.

In order to maximize Virgo’s giving nature, he wants to minimize the amount of people/time he’s critical of other’s around him. 

To do that, he can find himself lacking motivation to pursue personal relationships that he’s initially unsteady about, or cutting people out decisively if they’re bad for him. Besides being able to hold a grudge (Cancer Mars) he’s also very persistent/demanding in his social relationship as well (Scorpio Venus - see later)

This Virgo-Capricorn since it influences his Mercury (Virgo Sun expressing itself/pride through Mercury - ruler) his sense of humor can come across as sort of dry and sarcastic. 

A consequence of that Capricorn decan wanting to express it’s humour, which coincidentally tends to be just in Seokjin’s line of taste(Capricorn Venus) and Taehyung makes him feel like this side of him is understood/acceptable (Capricorn Mercury). 

Since it can be kind of -- peculiar (combined with Virgo, the way it’s expressed is kind of quirky/peculiar without him having certain control over it sometimes)

Asking for help is also a problem he might face, it’s part to do with that withdrawn nature but also just the general stiffness/pridefulness he has. 

Capricorn decan here is stopping him from reaching out to people, because it’s so used to being the disciplinarian. The lesson it has to learn is to become the student. Something JK can help him with/he can learn from. 

The lesson it has to learn is to not stop the Virgo from reaching out to people. The sun (for him) is largely dependent on that initial ‘fighting to find himself’ stage, so any ego/stagnancy in his part is a hinderance to himself. 

The Capricorn-Virgo can have some ideas about serving others through disciplinarian/authority in itself (sense of self/ego) -- built up ego of knowing who he is without questioning himself becomes an unwilling to break himself to grow more, to listen to others and to learn. 

Having mutable/cardinal signs in your chart is only useful if you acknowledge it, and help it’s nature instead of ‘fixing’ it (get it? cause ‘fixed’ signs...) 

If it’s held on for too long, it becomes a problem/inner tension he needs to fix. So by only acknowledging, surrendering and growing from it’s natural waves, could he continue to use his Sun in his growth.     

Aspects

Sun (Virgo) - Square - Moon (Sagittarius)

This emphasized the self-critical nature Namjoon has to himself, but more on the ‘talking to himself/self-confusion and questioning himself’ part. 

There’s an emphasis here on trying to reason, analyze and understand where his emotions/instant actions are coming from. 

You can see when he’s embarrassed or ‘regretting his life choices’ that it’s mostly his reserved Sun being conscientious of his Moon’s instantaneous reaction. (also supported by Moon-Mars aspect below: feels like he lose control/act without thinking often, his Sun deals with being conscious of it/feeling embarrassed afterwards)

A lot of the time this spurs his own confusion even more, he wants to understand himself but he feels he lacks balance. Lacks stability and order that he craves. 

Because the Sun here is picking up on the smallest, tiniest details of his action/thoughts/subconscious mind that his Moon has (is in charge of). 

While his Moon is overlooking all the things the Sun pays attention to. It’s focused on the bigger picture, the bigger aspects, the concepts and ideas and the ever moving motion of things. 

His Sun is the consciousness part of him that’s digging it’s heels in trying to be like ‘wait wait let’s figure this out, let me figure this out’.  While the Moon is going ‘lets go, I know what’s best for us! It’s the ever-moving process of fighting/on-going nature that’s going to grow us better! let’s go!’ (getting the gist/motion of what the Sun is about and running with it)  

Despite Virgo and Sagittarius being mutable signs they’re constantly in motion different from each other (Mercury isn’t going at the same pace as Jupiter y know, size wise and speed wise)

Being of a different element, the contrast between them is even more prominent as well. 

It’s not like they’re not orbiting in each other’s presence, in fact if you want to think about it visually. It’s like peering into a store window (in a shopping mall) and seeing your aunt make a scene inside (Sag Moon). It’s precisely because they’re aspected that means they’re aware of what each other’s doing. 

The problem this might pose for Namjoon is heightened confusion and indecision. They’re both mutable signs of different element and polarity, there’s always that push-pull dynamic inside of himself. 

It also heightens his suspicion and critical consciousness, like, he’s always aware of the opposite side of the argument. 

When talking to someone, he’s always disclaiming himself not to be misunderstood because he doesn’t understand himself sometimes (self-confusion/figuring himself out). 

He might find himself fool-proofing that/projecting the same kind of suspicion onto other people as well.  

Sun (Virgo) - Sextile - Mars (Cancer)

Oof we love a powerful man! 💕

Sun backed up by Mars here gives a strength to pursue the things he wants to pursue (through activitiy). 

The innate qualities of Virgo such as it’s attention to details, critical nature, organizational qualities is expressed outwards through his actions/work. 

It also plays a little bit into how he comes across, people respect Namjoon because he has this sense of understanding to him.

 A sympathetic and observational nature that is expressed through his Virgo Sun - Cancer Mars aspect.

He’s able to connect to others (Cancer) and serve them (Virgo) on a deeper level than just the physical/emotional (Sun-Mars). 

He’s pragmatic (Virgo) and sturdy (Cancer), a perfect leader quality!

Minor details: it also plays into having a healthier masculinity, Cancer and Virgo are both feminine signs that builds and strengthen his masculinity, if they’re being used honestly and truthfully in Namjoon’s life.

That means he accepts them and nourish them, grow them in order to build/strengthen this Sun-Mars aspect of his. 

When he has more more practice sustaining his masculinity through Cancer and Virgo, he has a balance of both masculinity and femininity that he demonstrates and that -- pleases himself (his Libra particularly) and others greatly (because they sense this balance-ness to him and flock to him).

Anyways his Sun (ego/sense of self/esteem) is expressed through his action/work/physicality (externalized outwards through Mars outlet, which is always great!)

Sun (Virgo) - Trine - Uranus (Capricorn)

This is Namjoon fighting for the underdog, being the underdog and trying to change the system. (From pre-debut till now -> onwards as well)

He has perfect understanding between his head/sense of self (Sun) and his social consciousness (Uranus) -- of what he wants to do, and what he has to do as well (wanting to do things - tangibility, earth signs)

It’s also creating a voice for others in the world, Virgo here is serving the world by making part of it’s purpose a tangible creation/effort. 

Uranus is generous and often selfless, while Virgo’s sympathetic dedicated nature serves his inner purpose. 

He often reflects about himself (Sun) in relation to the world (Uranus), connecting himself to the creation of the universe and all things around/in it.  

His creation and effort, no matter how long it takes he wants to make an effort to create a safe space (Virgo-Capricorn- externalization, external organization/project, effort, structure) for others. 

Sun (Virgo) - Trine - Neptune (Capricorn)

A part of his inspiration and nature is just--- bringing the ideal into reality. 

It’s that Neptune subconsciousness combined with his internal sense of self (Sun). 

He’s able to create and mold pieces of work that’s delicate and detail-oriented, crafted because of this Virgo Sun channelling the steady, sturdiness of Capricorn Neptune.

A lot of the time his thoughts and ideals are related to reality. Concepts of love, nature around him, the universe, people, theories and ideals. 

Neptune mod. ruler in Pisces, there’s a lot of empathetic nature that’s highlighted in his Virgo Sun. And if we’re talking about Pisces other qualities (trad. Jupiter rulership) the ‘serving’ nature here is emphasized just as much as well. 

Namjoon’s a very giving person, but the part that gives him hindrance is usually the friction having an earth-earth combination brings. Like he has the ‘in touch intuition’ but sometimes Capricorn makes it harder to manifest smoothly. Since it’s ground-ground influence, it feels like dragging your feet across the floor sometimes.    

Sagittarius Moon | 2nd Decan (Mars/Aries) 

I think we all know Sag moon’s need for activity. 

It’s like, photosynthesis with them. They’ve reached that stage in the maturity/growth (as the oldest fire sign/one of the oldest sign in the zodiac) to be able to digest nourishment through their intellectualism+ fuel their inner sense of self that way.

 They still need stimuli for sure, but that stimuli can be from people/culture/seemingly nothing/external environment/concepts. 

It’s expansive this way. That’s the top-tier fire sign level. Expansion in what they can digest/photosynthesize.  

(Sagittarius) They’re more of the type to get up and go, take in the natural sunlight/environment and create their own self-fulfillment from there. Again, this is where their independency/needing personal space comes from as well.

There’s still the distinguishable ‘me’ attitude that fire-sign has. Unlike the Aries Moon who’s ‘me’ attitude comes from tugging/pulling others to become motivated (link up to their energy- Mars), 

Or the Leo Moon who’s ‘me’ attitude comes from acknowledging/parrying other’s response to them/persuading them to self-express their inner self (Sun)

The Sagittarius Moon’s ‘me’ attitude comes in the intellectual kind/mentally stimulating kind (Jupiter). 

Open-mindedness, intellectual resourcefulness, teaching sharing and creating a direction to go towards together is important to them.

They’re also generous and absolutely opinionated. 

He would not back down from helping another, Sagittarius Moon actively encourages/expand on other member’s positive qualities. Jupiter shines a light on other’s strength. 

He always tries his best to make the public endeared by those he adores, generally through demonstrating his own personal affection for them. 

Kind of like a little kid who’s introducing his friend to his parents, absolutely adore his friends, want his parent’s approval of them too.

Anyways, this can sometimes come with the price of emphasizing his clumsiness/contrasting personality to bring this light forward. 

Jupiter always has this sense of depending on others, or depending on each other (collaborative - social planet). Better halves. 

As much as individuality is focused in Sagittarius/Jupiter, emphasizing their difference (how they make each other better) their own individuality gets to shine better this way. 

When it seems like their difference is building (learn/grow) on each other’s strength/weaknesses, the end result seems to be a win-win situation for both of them. (Optimistic/positive - generous and sharing)

Namjoon’s generosity is absolutely understated, but it’s a huge part of having a Sagittarius Moon. His emotion is tied to how he can help others, grow from others and (with his Sun) sometimes even serve a purpose together as well. 

As part of a social planet (Jupiter) it’s about collaborating and contributing (individually) to a bigger purpose. Maybe not like Aquarius/ Uranus, but it definitely brings a brighter light/emphasis to his sense of self/purpose. (It’s shining light on the better part of things, people, themselves, others -- it might not be prominent but it’s underlying in all his actions/subconscious thoughts somehow) 

As part of his Moon, he identifies himself with a ‘purpose’ (Sun-Moon aspect, even if the relationship is square- it’s still aspected)

Virgo might be his vulnerable side, underneath Sagittarius’s outward optimism and enthusiasm. A harder, fiery outer core to his inner personality.

It’s all a part of him really, but he protects himself better with this Moon.  If he moves fast enough, hard enough with this Sagittarius then the damage his Virgo take is lessened. 

There’s a common goal between Virgo and Sagittarius, helping others around them helps themselves. In a sense, they want to help people find their own footing + through their success stories, they often feel inspired/proud to find their own successes as well. See that it’s possible, that is a practical dream. And they want to achieve that. 

Virgo finds serving others self-serving to their values/purpose, while Sagittarius finds helping others serving to fuel themselves, teach/grow into their own person.  

With Sagittarius being in his Moon Namjoon’s purpose/pride has to do with self-discovery. 

Growing and learning, adapting and changing in order to teach/grow into his own person. 

He already knows who he is, to an extent. Sagittarius Moon tends to have this identifying thing where they know best/what’s good for them intuitively (fire-sign tends to think they do). Even though they can’t actually answer a straight question (about who they are really), they can demonstrate it outwardly through consistency and demonstration/action.

They realize they have a pattern, like a routine or specific behaviour they do. And that’s their most identifying trait- the pure unadulterated joy they have for certain things. Their natural buoyancy. (Sagittarius Moon - that’s his identity)

In a way it’s his openness and sincerity. He can’t hide his Sagittarius Moon’s happiness. It helps since his Virgo-Capricorn can be intimidating a lot of the time. 

When he’s happy, he lights up. The eyebrow raise, the eyes crinkling, the joy and openness to his expression-- that’s part of the Sagittarius Moon. He can’t hide that. 

The way he bops his head along to a song, the way he bounces when he’s excited. That’s the most unadulterated version of his Sagittarius Moon behaviour. That’s what he identifies with, and what he pushes forward. (Inner core- outer crust, Sun-Moon. But also self-identity with the Moon.) 

He’s heavy-handed with helping others, even sometimes to the extent of acting brashly/naively. He’s enthusiastic about it, optimistic to be able to participate and see others grow. 

He wants to see others be better versions of themselves, because he himself wants to see it reflected in his own transition as well.

You know, it’s sort of a mirror thing. Like, if he can spread this kind of enthusiasm and open-minded idea. This feeling he has inside of himself, to others around him (by teaching them the same kind of courtesy/respect) -- then he himself can achieve it too. (benevolent but also ‘me’ attitude)

Manifesting, watering, putting in work to help others. He can see that it’s working for them, and that in turns motivate/inspires him (fire sign stimuli) to achieve his own success as well.  

He’s enlightened, positive and absolutely supportive of those close to him. 

Joonie thrives and live off of this placement, his emotions are key to his sensitivity and his connection to the outside world.

Know how he can sometimes appear to exhibit childish trait or aegyo-like behaviours (without meaning to - instantaneous behaviour) That’s when a Sagittarius feels most comfortable developing into themselves. 

Especially in a Moon placement where the lighter trait of Sags are exaggerated. Unlike Jin’s Sagittarius Sun, Namjoon’s Sagittarius Moon is like a child version of Jin that lends itself to being absolutely adored and loved (endearing, Jin is as well but Joon can’t control it).

Sagittarius Moon: Developing and Growing

In Sagittarius there’s an innate knowledge within themselves that- if they can afford to work hard in maturing one self. Doing the things they deem ‘necessary’: they can also afford to find happiness/gentle nature in just living innocently and purely, within the world by being themselves when the time calls as well. (Sagittarius living in nature, appreciating travels and exploring/expanding themselves) 

Namjoon’s ability to see through his own past/bullshit can be hard to come by (redeeming himself when he makes mistakes) but I’m inexplicably proud of him when he overcame those challenges and connects his inner purpose this way.

Sagittarius, when they’re at their best, are comfortable in the position where they aren’t stuck in the past/the future of their actions. They’re comfortable knowing that there’s more to life than who they are now. 

Once the presence starts to be filled with regrets for past actions (’why did i do that today’) they want to move on/forget about the situation. This isn’t really good for the Sagittarius, because it’s lending itself to ‘running away’ from the situation/being flakey to themselves. 

Consistency, at least to themselves is what the Sagittarius native has to learn. They can’t just run away from their problems or rely on their future changes to not feel guilty/embarrassed/regretful about their past. 

Confrontation isn’t their strong suit (especially if it’s personal) but in order to build something out of themselves/end a chapter in their life properly (as a mutable sign) they have to become sturdier. 

Think of it as progression from 9th house to 10th house. What does the Sagittarius have to learn, in order to progress into Capricorn? It’s the final resolution, the confrontation within themselves. It’s using that sincerity/honestly they give outwards to other people all the time, to be fair/just to themselves inside as well. 

It does have to do with justice, Sagittarius Moon gets really riled up by injustice in their environment/towards others. But when it comes to evaluating what they’re putting themselves down for, they tend to gloss over it/make it into an exasperated joke. 

Sagittarius uses humor to deal with a lot of things, and learning how to be just/fair to themselves is such a crucial thing for Sags.  

That’s why self-love is such a large lesson/concept for Namjoon (to learn), it ties down to his inner core as well. The Sagittarius Moon here has to learn to accept/grow into loving itself, slowing itself down, to be reaching out to his other placement (compromising), be open-minded to himself-- to actually be fair to himself as well.  

A lot of the time Namjoon can be too hard on himself and doubtful of his own worth. 

While Sagittarius protects his ego (sun) by overplaying the optimistic, generous demeanor. Self-love, self-care, fairness to himself/his evaluation of himself-- the sincerity/honesty he shows to others should be spread inside to himself as well. 

Balanced inside and outside. Because just like this, the Sagittarius is just subvert all the time (to others). It needs to be balanced, because if it shifts from subversion to inversion: he becomes selfish, high-strung on his opinion, unable to give anyone a chance because it compromises his chances. 

Learning how to compromise, deal with the problem, confront and acknowledge the problem itself is a lesson Sagittarius has to adapt to. 

Scenario: to make up for the Sun being so critical/self-analytical, the Sagittarius Moon here talks loudly to distract from the actual problem. It’s trying to make the atmosphere better, but it’s a short term solution. 

The opposite can also happen when it’s tilted (inversion/subversion) Sagittarius Moon become strongly defensive and absolutely maniacal of it’s own opinion/thoughts. Sullen, isolationist and selfish. 

Even though he can swing between being generous and being selfish, the lesson lies in being both at the same time-- towards himself and towards others. 

He can’t deal with this duality in separate sections, the bad comes with the goods. He can’t keep them separated because it causes fissure. And this just makes the tilting even harder for him to bear. Makes it more confusing and creates more problems for himself.

See its-- being a bigger person. It’s not a child anymore (the younger sign) it’s about combining all his parts together to start maturing. It’s at the edge/the crust of jumping into the MC. 

The separation thing can’t last. That’s the lesson Scorpio already taught through it’s transformation. Sagittarius here has to gather up it’s lessons, evolution as a person and mold it together. To create the grounded stable Capricorn for the next progression y know.  

Learning/growing, or teaching himself how to accept his maniacal side and his generous side in equal part (to himself and to others at the same time). 

How to be both at the same time (demonstration), reaches a stage of completion that Sagittarius has to learn how to do. That’s one of the ways Sagittarius Moon can progress into managing themselves better. 

Sagittarius Moon: Libra Mercury (On the Same Side)

I touched a little on Namjoon’s response to with the TaeJin fight in Burn The Stage:  since Sagittarius is Namjoon’s emotional response, sometimes when they’re faced with other people’s conflict they can tend to whine and complain a lot.

They offer practical solutions, but in their flair of exaggeration and dramatics, it tends to come across as them complaining- whilst trying to philosophize about life to the recipients. 

They are however, very active and willing to communicate. There’s a part of them that feels trusted/chosen as mediator between fights since Sagittarius has an innate need for justice and combined with Libra Mercury, they need to get to the bottom of things. 

Whilst Libra does it more for the purpose of connecting to others, creating external balance and serving justice/attention to details, Sagittarius’s tends to come from a place that’s more about learning from others and objectifying the fight for a bigger purpose (which makes them seem preachy sometimes) 

They want to evaluate all kind of solution and expand their mind, they can tend to be abit more judgmental but never in a mean way. 

Sometimes people get really fed up with their style of mediation because while Libra actually focuses on the person/situation at hand, Sagittarius and Aquarius are already trying to hypothesize the solution to the fight for ‘future references’ sometimes. 

It’s more to do with Libra/Venus talking about direct social relations, while Sagittarius-Aquarius/Jupiter-Uranus talks about the bigger purpose/social groups in life. 

They’re more of the complain-y, head-strong in their opinion kind of mediator. Although they try to be open-minded, they have a hard time coming out of their introspection/relating to other people with different circumstances than they do.

He’s saved by that Libra Mercury, but we all know Namjoon uses his Sagittarius Moon to make a lot of his decisions even if it’s ill-advised sometimes. (See Libra Section for more on Libra - Sag relationship)

The part we respect about Namjoon is when he uses his other placement: his Libra Mercury, his Scorpio Venus and even his Cancer Mars. 

The part we’re endeared by Namjoon: is his Sagittarius Moon. 

Sagittarius as a fire sign (especially in his moon) constantly agitate the other placement by rushing out the door and screaming ‘can’t be tamed’. So when the other placement actually get their hands around Sagittarius Moon, it serves him better because he’s not letting the Wild Child run loose all the time.   

Has a need for a public response, you can see it in the way he turns to look and talks to the camera crew often during the behind the scene of run ep. 54 (linked to vlive channel+)  as well as expressing himself often through yelling, flailing of limbs and dramatic responses.

Sagittarius Moon: Virgo Sun - Bickering (+ Libra Mercury)

There’s also the innate need for Sagittarius here to have some personal space and freedom from the team, and individuality that stands out from others. 

It’s similar to the Capricorn with-drawing itself in the Virgo Sun, but with a Sagittarius it’s even more prominent because his mood is directly affected by it (Moon). He can easily get agitated/frustrated when his ‘alone time’ or ‘off-duty’ time is disrupted. 

His concentration breaks fairly easily, Sagittarius as a mutable sign tends to be focused/driven for certain period of time before needing a distraction (to ‘freshen up’/’restart’)

It also emphasizes his sense of humour, or his need for having sense of humour in his life. A part of why he gets along so well with Jin (and Jungkook) is their ability to provide an environment/crack jokes that he can build on. 

Mutability in this sense, is feel comfortable enough to add onto the situation or mold himself to what’s established (’time for cracking jokes’) It makes him happier, and a lot more easy-going. 

His moods can shift depending on his company, but more importantly what certain people impresses on him. With people who he categorizes as ‘serious business’ type of deal, he can be really awkward trying to shift them into ‘joking ok??’ type of people. 

Sagittarius aren’t all that adaptable when combined with Virgo Sun, in fact Sagittarius in the Moon position tends to have a harder time adapting to others than they are to themselves (ability to bounce away from regretful past choices/action, that’s adapting to themselves)

While he is indeed very generous and opened to listen to others. Sagittarius Moon requires consistency from others because that’s part of the ‘impression’ they make/categorize others in. The mutability in this part, is for themselves. Their ability to bounce back from a bad interaction/protect themselves from others, not let others take advantage of their generosity/kindness.

If they categorize you as someone who’s not going to be kind to them, then they’ll react accordingly. In a way, this is Sagittarius protecting themselves, but they also need to balance themselves better as well.  

Let’s look at his overall placement: Part of why Namjoon is coping so well with the heavy Virgo-Capricorn Sun is because of this Sagittarius Moon. Despite it being in conflict (square) with his Sun, the Sagittarius here provides motion to drive forward/move on in his life and not be so stagnant in his past/mistakes/analyzing himself.

The problem with Sagittarius Moon arises when he over-relies on this motion/driving force, and not enough in developing it further past that. 

The being ‘stagnant in his past/mistakes/analyzing himself’ mostly has to do with being in public, Virgo’s mistakes oxidizes and becomes self-critical when it’s exposed to air/judgement of others around them. 

Sagittarius Moon is trying to make Virgo care less about the public, how it’s perceived/the tiny details that didn’t bother them until they’ve been introduced to society/the everyday others.

The idea is that they should all be allowed to be themselves, truly and freely. But Sagittarius doesn’t acknowledge Virgo’s strength (atleast communication wise/aspect) Virgo wants Sagittarius to acknowledge the good part about caring about the public-- putting in extra effort into caring for others. 

Virgo replied in the way Sagittarius communicate with them (that’s what is established in this dynamic.) Virgo points out Sagittarius’s flightiness, suggesting that the resolution to that is by ‘putting more consistency into it’. 

Here’s where the miscommunication starts, because the way Sagittarius communicate is very fire-sign like. It was aimed to cheer or encourage Virgo up. Fire them up, motivate them. See my example and do the same. But the way Virgo replies/says it back doesn’t work the same way. 

Virgo is an earth sign, it learns from observation and example. The way they communicate doesn’t focus on firing people up like Sagittarius does. It’s through dry effort, practical solution and being there for others (time/endurance demonstration, not immediate/impactful fire starter). 

It can be very dry, critical and seems to the fire sign Sagittarius like it’s just retaliating because it’s hurt. Sagittarius takes this as a stimuli cue (because fire signs reads atmosphere rather than people/words) and is hurt by the response. 

Basically, it’s a miscommunication thing (square aspect). Virgo and Sagittarius are hurt because the other only points to their mistakes (the biggest trait/flaw in each sign) doesn’t want to acknowledge the strength. So it’s an argument without compromising because their communication (aspect) is the issue here.  

So how does this all ties into Namjoon? 

Namjoon probably relies on his Sagittarius Moon alot. Mostly because its the part of him that is his subconscious. He relates to it, identifies with it. His Virgo Sun (Scorpio Venus/Cancer Mars) makes up a larger part of his conscious. But his subconscious is the part he truly self-identifies with, because it holds his emotions (which Cancer Mars/Scorpio Venus plays into as well)

He knows where his emotions come from, how he reacts, his anger, his joy, his motivation and thoughts/progression. The Sagittarius here is like a breath of fresh air to him, allowing him to fight-- sometimes wield it, like a sword towards the clinginess of Virgo (trying to make him focus/analyze himself) or Scorpio/Cancer (trying to cling him onto the past/dig deeper into things and drown in it).

He uses the fiery nature of Sagittarius like a weapon, clings onto it’s warmth because it probably gives him comfort and identity. Stability in his life. He identifies with the fiery nature of Sagittarius because he can understand where it’s from (his emotions/inner self). It’s himself, and he tries so very hard to accept it. 

It’s both his greatest strength but also the part he’s exasperated/confused about as well. He doesn’t understand that, not everything about the Sagittarius makes up his entirety/who he is. By loving/looking at the light of Sagittarius he forgets to look more into his conscious-- the Virgo/Scorpio/Cancer part of himself as well. 

It’s like plato’s allegory of the cave, he’s known of this Sagittarius all his life, the reliance in his Virgo/Scorpio/Cancer is distracting to him. 

It’s the inverse of the allegory, Namjoon distracted by the light Sagittarius brings, he can sometimes be very confused/forgot to acknowledge the shadows that supports the light (Virgo/Scorpio/Cancer) literally the more stable part of himself. 

Rather than Sagittarius being a part of himself (permanently), it’s more like a weapon/limb he can utilize to cut off parts of himself he’s frustrated about (Virgo/Scorpio/Cancer) 

Hence, it feeds into the self-confusion, because he probably holds this Sagittarius at a distance from everything else (Virgo/Scorpio/Cancer) y know?

The only thing this Moon aligns with is his Mercury (see below: Moon-Mercury aspect) 

Mercury, once it’s endorsed by the Sun, becomes strengthened. (see above: Virgo Sun - Mercurial influencing Libra Mercury)

And that wind (air - Libra) blows the flame of Sagittarius Moon even more. 

The Sun - Moon aspect (Square) here is the Sun going ‘wait no that’s not what you’re supposed to do with that power’ and the Moon who’s already gained strength from Mercury is going ‘sike! I have it now, see ya later suckers’ and doing it’s own thing.

 So really, when Namjoon’s going ‘why did you do that Namjoon’ it’s usually that kind of Virgo Sun consciousness.

Libra Mercury fueling his Sagittarius Moon and his Sagittarius Moon running it’s mouth/action without the permission from the rest of his  body/placements/consciousness.

Libra Mercury is literally enabling his Moon. While the collective consciousness of Namjoon is going ‘wait Namjoon why did you do that!’ 

Aspects

Moon (Sagittarius) - Sextile - Mercury (Libra)

The Power Couple, this aspect makes up a lot of Namjoon’s habit we tend to notice. From his shade-y sass, facial expression, his buoyancy to how absolutely adorable he is. 

Sagittarius expressiveness is emphasized through Mercury’s self-expression, making him very animated person when he talks. It’s externalized outward even more, but this time it’s groomed slightly by Libra. 

He manifest his better quality through the good light of Libra (social relation) and Sagittarius (open-mindedness/optimism/justice). 

An alignment between his mind and his emotion makes him very conscious of what’s in his Moon/what it produces, again this is great because it makes him very intune and emotionally expressive. At the same time, his self-confusion (Sun-Moon square) can make communication inside of himself harder to bear, in contrast to how he comes across outwardly (Moon-Mercury). 

The center point of this is the Moon -- so self-identity can come from his Moon instead of his Sun most of the time (his Sun has aspects to Uranus/Neptune and not his inner-planets)

It’s like you see yourself doing so well externally (communicating wise) but internally you’re confused at why you’re so bad at it (miscommunication) 

So there’s a little bit of -- frustration there that’s emphasized because this part (Moon-Mercury) is going so well for him. 

Anyways, more with the good stuff. Moon-Mercury aspect is great because he might not know what he’s saying all the time but he’s very enthusiastic about communicating/talking it out. 

Especially with Sagittarius-Libra, he likes sharing it with others and encouraging others to do the same. 

He’s sincere about himself and others, and although he can sometimes be moody/sullen/private (due to his moods) he always tries his best to be fair to others by acknowledging e his vices, imperfections, etc.

In a way,  he’s probably learning/growing/trying to develop his Sagittarius-Libra through this aspect.

He can gain so much from this combination, because Libra doesn’t let Sagittarius become too ‘rowdy’ while Sagittarius loosen Libra up a bit. 

There’s also genuine masculine energy from this combination, because of their polarity being masculine (Libra/Sagittarius). 

Air and fire works well together, Libra being a cardinal sign is slightly more laid back with Sagittarius around. Libra leads and grooms, takes action and shapes Sagittarius while Sagittarius finds the ‘muse’ or enthusiasm for different things. It’s like, sibling dynamic. 

But without their parents there’s always that instability/balance between them because Libra (as an air sign) can’t rely/depend on Sagittarius to come through during crisis time.  

So while Namjoon is great that shaping, adapting and leading discussion (instigating it) he’s also a bit-- loose and needs that stability/ground to stand on when things gets out of hand as well (which is where Yoongi, Hoseok, Jin, comes in.)

The way Namjoon deals with things is similar to Jimin, like if there’s a crisis they discuss/collaborate what to do together. Without earth (Yoongi’s virgo moon/Hoseok’s taurus moon) or the more forceful cardinal sign (Aries/Capricorn/Cancer) it’s like they can have a moment of panic and feeling lost (mutable) before acknowledging what to do y know.

There’s also the consequence of not being well-equipped to handle heavy emotional discussions. Unless it’s instigated by him or he’s prepared for it. The masculine energy between air-fire focuses on doing/activities, doesn’t have time to sink deeper like earth-water do. 

He is however, very observative and curious about others. 

As much as he talks, he’s willing to listen. 

He loves discussion because it fuels him (emotionally/mentally), he loves connection (Libra). 

People’s word, their body language, the little tic and traits in others he often picks up on. Especially with that Scorpio Venus, he can be very shrewd with people.  

Moon (Sagittarius) - Square - Saturn (Pisces) (R)

RM ‘always’ mixtape: ‘i’m living to understand the world but why hasn't this world tried to understand me?’ oof what a mood.

Trust is a big issue here, 

With Sagittarius-Pisces trad. ruler being Jupiter, the problem arise when he feels like there’s a lack of appreciation/respect for him from the world itself/everyone is turning their backs on him. 

See, as much as Sagittarius-Pisces positive traits are focused on adapting, generosity, expansiveness/transcendentalism, sharing/caring for others (sympathetic open-handedness) 

The problem is they feel like it’s not being given back to them. And they have to push to earn it back (Saturn). From an authority, a bigger public, a power beyond themselves/their sense of self. It’s daunting and challenging.  

Because he gives so much to others, he doesn’t want to be taken advantage of (Moon- fears). His emotion is going through trials, he doesn’t want to stop adapting/changing/shifting, but Saturn brings lessons he has to faces.

Most of the lesson has to do with perseverance, consistency, finding it within himself. 

There’s a fear of personal relationship, of commitment that he can’t keep up, that’s part of Sagittarius Moon’s deepest fear. 

Having this Saturn-Moon aspect brings it to the forefront.

Namjoon is well-aware of his fears, his lack of strength/vulnerabilities and weakness. He lives with it in this Moon-Saturn aspect. 

The light of the moon shines on the lessons Saturn bring, it’s like catching a glimpse of the grim reaper in the corner of your eyes every time you’re trying to enjoy itself. It’s lingering and with Pisces there, it’s reflective of his inner subconscious even more (12th house/Neptune)

It’s also fear of receiving the nurture/care he craves (Neptune) because there’s always suspicion there.

Sincerity, generosity, the same open-minded/open-handedness they crave they think it’s harder to come by because of Saturn’s influence/lesson plans/challenges. 

He doesn’t think he’s ‘enough’ and  is suspicious of being tricked. His rigidity to others (when people try to hug him or show him genuine affection, you can see it when the members compliment him ‘too much’ he gets really rigid) can even come across in his self-expression, but most prominently in his facial expressions (moon). 

Self-doubt is a prominent theme with this aspect, and you can see how it plays out so much in Namjoon’s life. 

His own self-worth, his easy acceptance of criticism that are completely unfounded hurled at him, his sympathetic and giving nature that isn’t extended towards himself (such a Pisces Saturn- Sag Moon thing)-- makes it harder to accept genuine love and support from others because of this Moon-Saturn aspect.

They’ve been conditioned since early childhood (Saturn doesn’t stop/start at a certain age) to expect negatives, challenges, difficulties. Even when looking forward to the future, they’re always trying to balance/counteract the negativity instead of inviting the positives. 

This is because Sag-Pisces wants the positive to come, but what they can do to help is ‘tackle’ the negatives. This method instead, manifests/invites the negative stuff even more to themselves. 

It’s like someone who has a negative aura around them and says negative thing isn’t going to invite positive things to them from others y know? It doesn’t work that way. So their self-projection/counteracting this negative problem isn’t going to help them in any way. 

The lesson Saturn is truly trying to give here, is the strength to overcome the negativity. To project positivity into their life. Because Sagittarius and Pisces both have so much potential/resource for it already. 

They’re literally two of the most positive signs in the entire zodiac. It doesn’t make sense that they would feel so defeated by what? big bad Saturn? No, the point of this lesson is to use their best trait, their positivity and power-- empower themselves with that. 

Stop being doormats. Saturn is illuminating them in the worst light (Sagittarius-Pisces as their worst) so to counteract that, they have to show their positive/best trait. Project it outwards. Actively stand up for themselves. Be able to face their fears, show vulnerabilities (Pisces-Sagittarius) be open to accepting love from others. 

To gain strength from themselves is to overcome Saturn. To be emotionally vulnerable and available to receiving other people’s love, that’s part of empower themselves. That’s what Saturn wants. 

Libra Mercury | 2nd Decan (Uranus/Aquarius)

It’s no wonder his Libra Mercury is working so well with his Sagittarius Moon. 

When it comes to emphasizing with others/understanding things from another’s perspective (air), his emotions (moon) and thoughts (mercury) collide- bringing  forward a genuine way of phrasing things. Because he can stand behind it. He understands it, he’s opened himself up to receiving it like a bowl being filled with water (emotions-thoughts) 

The earlier Moon-Mercury aspect really is serving him well here. That can’t be understated, it’s probably one of his most powerful/well-used aspect as well. 

With Libra Mercury, their verbal expression (externalized) is relating to things. An ability to express thoughts/opinions outwardly that’s definitely going to make people feel like they’re being represented/respected sincerely by him.  

Self-expression geared towards understanding the person. Libra as a Venus ruled planet, focuses on social relationships. One on one relationship+conversations, as well as how others come across socially/publicly. What we relate to and what we try to stay away from. 

Libras are critical of these tiny details, they’re able to pick up on it at an almost intuitive level. Because their brains here are geared towards taking cues from these direct/atmospheric quality all the time. 

It definitely feeds into his observative nature, but more than anything it’s not overused. It’s a tool to help him navigate the social circle/crowd, and over-abundance of Libra can compromise a lot of his other placements that definitely wouldn’t benefit him in any way. 

Indecision comes from whether he’s going to choose to appease the person or appease the crowd. Who the audience is, who’s being mediated for. 

There’s a purpose to Libra, kind of like an identity/angular house. There has to be a recipient to a relationship, and who is he giving this information to has to be there for him to perform properly.

Moments when Libra doesn’t have this recipient/audience is when Namjoon probably uses his Scorpio/Sagittarius the most. When the audience is directed/aimed at us, it slips into this Libra Mercury. 

Making it seem smoother and more complacent than the actual issue being addressed. The style in which he does thing, is directed by Libra.  

When Libra is in the sign of Mercury, they are analyzing the person and what is being said. They can find themselves making direct contact with the person in question (source) and listening to them, or mediating naturally (with their consent or without) between two people. Libra Mercury need this contact (from source) in order to pull their own analysis into context. 

(Namjoon being observative of the person - Virgo Sun, as well as his natural enthusiasm for learning - Sagittarius Moon, also brings a genuine focus/sincerity and genuinity to this Libra part as well)

Part of Libra Mercury’s argument is based around direct quote + atmospheric context. That’s how they come across as such good mediator or diplomatic, because they know how to weave evidence and substantial frame of reference together. It’s not intuition, it’s analytical.  

They can find themselves quoting/repeating what the person said (paraphrase) and adding outer context to the information to explain it back to the person themselves. Things like, how other people are receiving it, social custom, conditions/connections. Social conditioning/frame of reference is their go-to sources of back-up information.

If it’s not something they have knowledge about prior/unsure about, they rely on feelings instead. (Jimin’s prominent Libra Sun/Mercury as clue to his focus/Libra nature)

Feelings are sure-fire way to relate to others. Because you can’t deny emotions, it’s purely subjective and personal to everyone. It’s something that we all share, yet at the same time we can’t disprove or deny. (Subjective to the person, but also objective as a concept?)

So if they explain it as an additional context (relate/put themselves in another’s shoes) -- it’s a very direct way or relaying it back to the person they’re giving advice to.  

Libra mercury is an air-sign, so heavy handed emotional talks/intimacy earth/water sign might want can be hard for them to relate to/understand. (Also ties/made difficult by Namjoon’s Virgo-Capricorn Sun- if it’s somehow working with each other/influencing each other - unaspected but if it ties in together/back each other, maybe?)

Their way of consoling someone mostly consists of giving practical advice, or relying on these ‘back up resources of information’ (substantial things) instead. 

They can seem kind of invested in the rectifying of mistakes, or being truthful/honest in order to solve the problem. Rather than the person themselves or what they’re asking for (emotional concern, a pat on the shoulder, some kind of sensitivity)

This is just how Libra is as a Mercurial sign. It’s prevalent in their other placements as well (even in Venus) so while they do think emotion is a great source to rely on/back up from-- their connectivity to it can be limited to how useful it is. 

And a surface-level understanding of it’s importance (personally/socially) instead of actually relying/living in it (like water-signs do).  

Libra Mercury: Nature/Development -> Progression

Libra as a cardinal sign sees shifting opinions/ideas as part of the process, to reach the true conclusion rather than an indecision on their part. 

When Namjoon thinks about things, it’s rarely a conclusive thought. He’s always on-going in the process of shifting/adapting, the thoughts he has are his identity at the moment, but he is always searching/growing for more. 

Cardinal energy of a Libra is through that directness and truthfulness they have to themselves, they don’t actively think of themselves as Venus-signs. They aren’t afraid to play devil’s advocate or even just be contrary to prove the point they’re trying to make (without rocking the boat too much, within controllable bounds/conditions).

In fact the whole point is that true balance/harmony can’t be achieved, unless they instigate it/demonstrate it through their actions (throwing chaos into the mix sometimes).

Libra is a cardinal sign because of this fearlessness. They aren’t afraid of the consequences/danger of the process, because they know that the end goal is to be harmonious/peaceful (before it crashes into chaos again). This wave that keeps going, this shift/adaptation is part of why they’re the air-sign of the cardinal/angular house. 

They aren’t afraid and they emphasize/light up the positive (harmonious) despite engaging in the chaotic part of the cycle as well. It’s why Libra comes before Scorpio, because this little wave-cycle they have going on is simplified. Scorpio brings an entirely different type of transformation to Libra, an overwhelming one that they can’t control. And to Libra, loosing that faith/balance and stability (their reliance on their back up resources) is terrifying. Their little doll house; the suburban neighborhood with the minor little details/conflicts (chaos) they can control is falling apart. (that idle-ness they rely on)

This is world-changing/life changing personally. It’s the horizon (DSC/7th) finally coming into the sunlight/daytime. The shift from personal to social that Libra is starting to sink it’s feet into makes them grow, adapt, lose control. That instability in their life is what draws Libra into turmoil.

So yeah, Libra (in any placement) does rely a lot on the stability that they have. Doesn’t need to be material like the earth signs, or internal like the water-signs. They don’t like to be thrown off balance, or lose control (censored in their thought/speech) because they like to be in control of the situation. This is prevalent in both Namjoon and Jimin, not just because of this Mercury Libra they share together. (With Namjoon it’s also part of his Virgo/Capricorn pride/ego.)

They’re not angels like, they don’t actively consider themselves to be pure beings. They understand that balance/cycle and they live with it. The in-control aspect has a lot to do with ‘rocking the boat’ Libras are said to hate. It’s less about, playing devil’s advocate or something and more about doing things within bounds they can control. Even if it looks different to others. ( ‘woah this person is really said this x this x this’ versus ‘this person is indecisive/hasn’t made up their mind yet’ )

Going back to the point where they’re analytical of things that has to do with atmospheric quality, sometimes they’re so cunning and they use this to test others. They can sometimes play devil advocate occasionally, they know when to listen and when to talk, but sometimes they would talk for the purpose of getting the other person to participate in the conversation -- even just to tell them to shut up. That shrewd/observative nature to more than just what’s being said is absolutely ingenious (and indicative of Libra’s tactfulness) 

Libra is a good mercurial sign to be in mostly because it’s in between the naturally chatty/good natured Gemini (which rules Mercury so-- air signs have it good) and the fixed, heavy-hitting Aquarius.

 They know how to engage, push a little, but also how to let things go. That’s how they compromise, making a point (usually by pushing justice/fairness as the main topic onto others) before letting things go. 

Aquarius is said to be exalted in Mercury, Libra utilize the best of that ‘pushiness’ Aquarius Mercury has-- just enough, to make it’s point and then let go like a Gemini Mercury’s explosion/drop and go. They’re truly the middle child of the air-sign, and they really do fit in with their family (elemental signs) this way (sly, opportunistic and sometimes even sneaky).  

A part of Libra Mercury might be loosing track of/knowing their own mind/process (as much as they can connect/bring others together.) With themselves, they’re kind of lost on how they process things if it’s not in the now. They’re not retrospective/self-reflective because they’re constantly in the ‘now’ part of a lot of things.(Air)

A lot of their understanding of their own thought/minds comes from feedback/responses from others instead. This is the ‘support’ or ‘stimuli’ Libra takes, because unlike Gemini-Aquarius who focuses on object-to-object Libra focuses on person-to-person. The need for stimuli in another person is more prominent this way. 

Other people’s feed back serves as ‘stimuli’ -- it’s not like they’re taking the person’s word personally/directly because they like to weigh their options (indecision from other people’s perspective), but they’re always optimistically curious about what other people has to say/observe about them.

They keep themselves open this way, sometimes even coming off as unassuming/naive to their own thoughtful nature/tact in diplomacy because it creates a ‘bowl’ for other people’s opinions (’water’) to fill. 

This support/stimuli is crucial to them, as they gather response/support they feel fueled by it. (Most prominently is Jimin’s love for compliments/acknowledgement, Namjoon has a harder time accepting compliments/care that way because of his Moon-Saturn but also Mercury-Mars below)

From other people’s perspective this can come across as needing reassurance/validation, Jimin asks for it directly (Scorpio Venus/Gemini Moon). With Namjoon it’s in nervousness/anxiety that comes with it (Sag Moon on top - Virgo Sun/Cancer Mars). He fiddles or fills the air (distract) when he’s nervous/anxious about things.

Libra Mercury: Perfectionist 

Oh yeah and definitely within their own mind, there’s a perfectionist streak. It’s the attention to detail they pay outwardly to others (as explained above) they pick up inside of themselves as well-- with it being part of their mind, they tend to put themselves up to that standard even if it’s completely ideal/bonkers -- if they aim for it then it’ll become possible someday right? (Cardinal).

Comparison and criticizing themselves because the ideal is far from what their mind/themselves is capable of doing right now, they’re quite harsh to themselves because they always aim to pay attention to/care about the little details (atmospheric quality + what is being put out directly from their brain)

They’re their own biggest critic, and because it’s their thoughts/mind there’s no shutting that voice up. (Mercury)

While others might think they’re too harsh on themselves, the conflict inside the Libra Mercury is that they know they’re not being fair to themselves. Thats the whole entire problem, they know it but they can’t stop it. 

Because the way they go about doing things -- externalizing/expressing themselves has always been based around this constant evaluation, this critical analysis, this weighing and paying attention to the details and people.  

Once they pay attention to the people part it becomes a problem of holding themselves to a standard others wants to see from them (or what they think people want to see from them). They gain so much from people, as stimuli and as a purpose (to solve, mediate, to help) they need to give back. 

They need to push themselves harder, truly balance all the good they’ve received by giving others the best side of them at all times. And if they can’t do that-- then they’re not doing good enough right? 

It’s like, as much as they preach/give advice about apologizing to others and compromising, ending conflict through good resolution, giving practical advice to the end/conclusion of a fight: ��if you did bad and you can see that you did bad then you have to apologize” -- that’s their go-to advice on how to end a fight/conflict. 

And yet to themselves, not being able to reach that standard/give back to other is the same as not apologizing, they see it as them doing bad. 

In this context, the answer to their problem is simple: reach that standard and you’ll be ‘apologizing’ (ending the conflict.)

If you can’t do that, then you haven’t repent fully yet, you’re still ‘bad’ because the other side haven’t heard your ‘apology’. It’s about that communication from themselves outward that’s the problem. That’s really coming into the mix here.

This is more prevalent in Jimin (directly) than Namjoon, just through broadcast alone. But thought process wise-- there’s a lot going on inside of Namjoon emotionally (from the moon) and personally (from the Sun) that he’s faced this type of opposition before (that saturn-aspect and Capricorn/Aquarius influence - trad. ruled by Saturn as well). 

He’s coping better with it because it’s never been an easy-part of himself to deal with. And he’s had faced this kind of opposition all his life already. He probably knows better than to just, rely on that voice inside his head alone. Which is why it’s kind of pushing him to use that Sagittarius Moon more as well (I guess it’s better than the two evil maybe).

Aspects

Mercury (Libra) - Square - Mars (Cancer)

Acts without thinking (Mars-Mercury) which can be a hit or miss without Namjoon. 

Usually it’s unintentional, playing into his clumsiness that Sagittarius Moon brings (focuses on the bigger things, impression rather than details, loses track of the smaller details/everyday life/now that his Mercury would’ve otherwise focused on)

He’s however, very enthusiastic and lively. Able to join/encourage harmonic quality to invite stability into his life (Libra-Cancer). 

This also plays into the dramatics/exaggeration his Sagittarius Moon already feels (and expresses) but with a Cancer Mars, his temperamental nature is put the fore-front as well, being unable to hide his facial expression/emotions when he’s frustrated or feeling restricted (that run episode where he’s accused of being the manito). 

A lot of energy put into throwing himself into work, particularly when he doesn’t want to over-think it (super analyze it like Mercury Libra wants to do) at the same time, when others have really great ideas he can go full-throttle on it even though the other is hesitance.

The Cardinal-Cardinal nature here pushes him forward in instigating stuff, not really into maintaining/seeing it to completion (in it’s ultimate form).

Scorpio Venus | 1st Decan (Mars-Pluto/Scorpio)

The lip biting? This gif set? 

Scorpio Venus have this energy about them that comes alive through their charisma. 

This rawness is facilitated from a motion (transformation) but also a drive for action (Mars trad. ruler). 

When it’s in Venus -- they have an allure that just seems so contradictory yet magnetizing to be around. 

Part of that power/drive that fuels Namjoon’s voice/rapping comes from this Venus (self-expression). It’s how he styles himself, but also his performance as well.

Jimin who has the same Scorpio Venus, you can see the way he sings and the way he dances (self-expression) is tied into this as well. 

With Jimin his Libra (ruler Venus) is pulling the power/force of this Scorpio into his mercury (singing style) and his dancing (Mars) is fueled by this love for self-expression 

Scorpio Venus: loves for dance, Scorpio Mars: how he dances (but also low key: igniting that love for physical self-expression through dance as well - Scorpio Venus)

Namjoon’s powerful rapping style comes from this Venus as well, how he expresses himself. With the rap-line, you can see the influence Mercury-Mars-Venus has. Namjoon with his Scorpio Venus, Yoongi with his Aries Venus, and Hoseok with his Pisces Venus (refer to their mixtapes)

Arguably, Scorpio ‘Motion’ is less of a straight-line like Cardinal signs (Aries) but more of a spiral. It feels like walking up a spiraling staircase without any knowledge of what actually lies at the end. 

The reason it’s contradictory/’spiral’ is because Scorpio’s aggression (Mars) drive/will-power is being channelled through Venus, the planet of social relationship. 

When it comes to externalizing this drive/will-power Scorpio Venus are heavy-handed with how they come across, their aura and intensity is aggressive (maybe not always stylistically, but the energy input/focus is there)

Scorpio Venus has a ‘magnetic allure’ because of this energy input, they’re subconsciously putting it out there. To other around them it’s kind of like ‘feelers’ for the native, whether the other person knows it or not they’re always trying to seek that same ‘energy/intensity’ that others might provide. These invisible feelers (energy output) latch onto others when they ‘connect’ or are ‘noticed’ by them.

It’s kind of like tentacles? But like invisible tentacles made up of energy. If you don’t share the same wave lengths with them you won’t notice anything out of the ordinary. 

But the moment these feelers ‘feel’ you/notice you, people are struck by how magnetizing they are because they’re (the energy) is an extension of the native (Scorpio Venus)-- directly contacting another person.

So if you think of these invisible tentacle feelers as Namjoon seeking the same energy output another person (Scorpio Venus seeking the same intensity/energy) the moment they latch onto someone/something, it’s a personal/direct connection from the Scorpio Venus to another (tentacles because it’s an appendage, a part of their personal identity)

This line of connection then allow the native (Scorpio Venus) to dive deeper into the other person, completely uncovering them, measuring them, feeling them out energetically and fueling this ‘will-power/drive’ into someone/something. 

Scorpio Venus ‘obsession’ isn’t a ‘baseless obsession’ at all, but like a permission to connect to others at their energy level. It only becomes prominent when they ‘latch on’ and have a ‘connection’ to someone/something.

They can’t have an obsession with something without that prior connection before hand, it doesn’t make sense to the Scorpio native. Scorpio seeks the deeper meaning, that intensity and that inner focus/drive. The core power they have inside themselves, they want to understand/learn about it. 

That’s why they seek it out/want to see it reflected in another person, so they can build that connection to them and try to investigate/figure it out from there as well. 

That’s part of why these feelers are invisible in the first place, it’s to screen through others who might not share the same energy/doesn’t understand them. 

The core focus here is on the self, through others. Understanding themselves and their energy level by seeing reflected/measured against another person, and being able (given permission/relationship) to investigate through two individual instead of just themselves. (7th house -> 8th house, trying to balance between the two)

They’re utilizing this social relationship Venus brings, to understand themselves through others. Learning lessons/values that are important to them, as well as transforming themselves, discovering who they are along the way.

They know themselves best, and Scorpio Venus are extremely loyal and steadfast people. It’s not easy connecting to anyone energetically and being able to search/scrutinize the deeper part of another person’s psyche. 

To get to this point, they know the other person had to go through a lot (whether they realize it or not) they’ll always try to repay it back in devotion and loyalty. Utterly and totally to the other person because that’s what Scorpio values.

They’re even-handed and generous with what they give back to others, even though their motivation can seem kind of selfish at first. They have no qualms giving others precious things if they know it means a lot to them, an eye for an eye and a heart for a heart is the Scorpio’s motto. The price is paid in full, no debt afterwards. They don’t like having regrets later. 

Scorpio Venus: Developing/Transforming 

A part of how they are utterly devoted/loyal is because the driving force/will power is focused on being self-disciplining as well. 

When they focus on a certain goal that has to do with others (like benefiting others without themselves reaping the rewards) they’re utterly selfless. 

Scorpios who haven’t discovered this part of themselves yet can feel like they’re unstable/unbalanced-- seeking stability and needing to constantly ‘energy check’ with others in order to stabilize themselves out. 

It’s part of why they feel out of control of spiraling into a mess sometimes, because their motivation/goals can still be about the self/me. 

When they focus more on the ‘others/them’ they begin to settle into their relationships better. It’s the transformative stage that Scorpio goes through in order to get to Sagittarius. 

That independency and happiness in solitude, that self-serving photosynthesis Sagittarius has. 

But also the bigger trait of Sagittarius such as teaching others/generosity aspect as well. Getting out of their own head and moving towards giving to others is the end goal for them. 

A lot of the time, because Scorpio is fixed, the travel-time is longer/harder to push through. The meat of the lesson is in the succedent houses/fixed signs, to let go of things and moving through the transformation/growth is the longest part of the story.

It’s like if you were to build a narrative between the cardinal, fixed and mutable signs -- the Cardinal is the character introduction, setting the scene, the beginning and it touches on the conflict a little. 

The Fixed is the progression of the story, how the plot progresses. Weaving the trouble into the main story-line, when everything is at the highest point of tension the climax happens. The fixed deals with this too, they progress through the climax and just as the problem resolve--

-- It goes into the Mutable, looking at the resolution of the story. The transformation that happened to the character, from the Cardinal till now, the unweaving of the problem and other context cues that slowly relaxes because of the resolution. It’s that extra chapter to the story that looks at things a few years later, or gives a hopeful ending.

But you know the story continues on, whether you’re reading/watching it or not because there’s always going to be a different chapter to read anyways.  

Anyways point being, Scorpio’s transformation chapter is long because there’s a lot to touch here. Whenever there’s a fixed sign it’s always a long arduous journey to find that climax and come to the conflict resolution part you know? When it’s mutable sign it’s finding a good part to end the story because THAT’S another problem all together. It’s not about finding the climax, it’s about resolving everything to a point where you’re satisfied/feels evened out with everything.

Scorpio Venus: Conclusion

There’s a warmth that comes with Scorpio Venus, as a water sign they connect with others this way. Those who know them well know that they are steadfast and warm, they’re dependable people (even if their life feels like a mess to themselves personally.)

It’s part of that Scorpio charm, because they’re so giving and tactile-- their opposite sign Taurus/rules Venus can give Scorpio Venus a similar sense of being good at love/intimacy even if they themselves don’t think they are (can grow to learn more about it.) 

Since they’re a Pluto/Mars sign, there’s always a kind of forcefulness to their interests. Whether it’s a person, people or hobby/object. They pursue their love/self-expression in a manner that’s driven and focused.  

It’s also part of building upon/sustaining the 7th house/DSC/Libra that talks about social relationship. Scorpio are good at relationship, they just have a hard time figuring it out. 

Because they gotta confront this ‘climax’ part of the story the narration is going into. And also multitasking themselves/their own transformation as well. Multitasking means putting their will-power/core-drive/energy into splits and that’s something Scorpios aren’t good at (but Sagittarius is). 

You can see this in Namjoon, but I’m explaining Scorpio Venus here first because I’m going to expand more on this in the NJ birthday series later.  (along with his fashion sense/choice because that’s a big thing to Namjoon)

Aspects

Venus (Scorpio) - Conjunct - Jupiter (Scorpio)

His social relationship depends a lot on giving to others, generosity and even-handedness. It’s about giving and receiving it back from others, that’s an equal relationship for him.

Always open to receiving/learning from others-- he connects to people socially and maintains his relationship with them through this trust/reliance on each other. At the same time, he can be extremely critical and wanting to see the ‘core value’ of people to fully trust them.

Surface level trust stems from mutual agreement and open-mindedness to each other, co-operation is a huge key here. But to actually maintain/have him back you up he has to really connect to you energetically as well. The intensity has to be there, you got to have depth and layers to your thinking, feelings, interpretations and thoughts. 

Again it’s that ‘mysterious’ thing Scorpio are attracted to, but dumbing it down a little it’s just layers. He has to know you’re conscientious and not a mindless corporate monster. 

Not weak-willed without your own sense of direction. There has to be that toughness there for him to depend on you/you depend on him. It has to be equal (Jupiter). 

Venus (Scorpio) - Trine - Saturn (Pisces) 

This is ...so surprising yet so heart warming to see

Having his love in a positive aspect to the planet of long-term establishment, this could point to how long lasting his love for his artistry/career is. 

Especially since both of these planets are in water-signs, his emotions runs deep and Pisces talks about artistry in particular. 

The intensity of Scorpio Venus (his love) channeled positively on long-term goals and plans into the arts. 

Pursuing music really was a life changing career goal for Namjoon. How deeply his love for music runs. 

Imagine younger Namjoon who just suddenly popped a presentation to his parents explaining why and how he should pursue a career in music.  Something so simple, yet so risky. It was just a thought, something that others sees it as ‘oh he’s probably going through a phase/wanting to try things out’ but having this aspect-- Namjoon probably has some idea of how deeply his love for the artistry ran, and he was willing to put his love on the line for this single chance.

It’s how he feel connected to others (Venus) it’s how he pulls his dreams (Pisces/Neptune) into reality (Saturn). 

Since they’re water signs, that’s some risky and tumultuous shit right there (emotionally). It’s like staring down a cliff into the dark stormy water below and trusting you’ll survive because you’re putting your trust/love/life on the line here. 

Music isn’t just a love for Namjoon, it’s something he breathes and consume. 

Scorpio intensity is so hard to describe, but it’s something you feel in your soul. Its your eyes opening for the first time, it’s that hitch in your breath and then the sharp inhale, it’s your senses coming alive--  including your heart and soul as well. 

It’s feeling like you could be caught at any time but you kept running anyways, with the frigid wind whipping your face and finger tips slipping away clumsily from your hands as you laugh and try your best to run. 

Cancer Mars | 2nd Decan (Mars-Pluto/Scorpio) 

When he has a grudge, he doesn’t let shit go like ever. 

Like emotionally he does, but how it affects him personally is that he has to digest it and use it to transform himself.

The hurt and hate he receives, it becomes food/fodder for him to turn into self-improvement (Scorpio/Pluto - transforming himself)

He’s already critical of others, this Cancer Mars rarely lets anyone in unless he feels like he can share/connect to emotionally as well. 

There has to be balance/stability because Cancer Mars wants that in their life. Family and domestic scene is a big thing for Cancer Mars to feel comfortable with people. 

Cancer Mars with the influence of Scorpio finds themselves with an abundance of power they don’t always know what to do with. 

Namjoon constantly over-estimating his own strength is key to this since sometimes he can have emotional outbursts (from Sagittarius Moon) that ended up in flapping of hands/arms/legs. 

Cancer here makes trusting himself (particularly himself physically) even harder, because it tends to hide behind it’s shell or cower back from things it can’t control (outside of it’s shell). 

Validation/reassurance about how he looks/appears physically is also a part of this. Most people think it would have to do with Venus, but when Mars is in a sensitive/semi-vulnerable position insecurities regarding how we come across physically is more prevalent here.

In contrast Venus-aspects (harsh aspects) tends to talk more about vanity or excessive vanity in a person. Lack of vanity/physical appearance might have more to do with Mars. 

Anyways, that’s part of why they want stability/reassurance because it builds confidence/they feel in control of themselves that way. Trusting in themselves and coming out of their shell is encouraged through this example. 

Cancer-Scorpio natives are planners/schemers, Scorpio brings a sharpness/analytical to the Cancer’s sensitivity here-- heightening it to their external environment/how they come across. 

People around them are also observed and dealt with accordingly. Sometimes Namjoon can look at members interaction that’s going on and evaluate very quickly whether or not he should get involved/engaged with them. The shadiness he expresses in his face, the sheer sass that he projects is Cancer Mars dealing with things.

It’s also a part of his thoughtfulness/caring nature that’s exerted/shown outward. 

Because he shows it physically, it makes Cancer Mars dependable people others can rely on through demonstration/consistency. 

It creates stability for others to rely on them, although they’re not outwardly nurturing they are sensitive to other’s emotions/moods and always looks out/protect/shield them whenever they can.

Cancer Mars: Dealing with Shit

They can also behave in a very-- aggressively passive-aggressive way. Because it’s not like Libra who’s lingering on the indecision side of passive-aggressive, Cancer Mars knows why they’re frustrated/mad and they want to unleash it (Cardinal). 

But they have to connect to others first to make the first punch, like edge the other person on so they get the clue before they really serves in the punches. It’s really just frustration honestly.

It’s because they’re resistant to change and they don’t want to get hurt themselves, that’s why they edge other people on to make that change for them-- force themselves into a corner so they have to fight/retaliate back (thus cardinal to tackle the problem once it presents itself). 

It’s like boxing? you duck when the other is attacking and you throw a jab/punch in there to retaliate. The movement is similar to what Cancer Mars is trying to come across with. But in terms of-- emotionally and physically.

Jin does it too, but he has a Scorpio Mercury and he just kind of snaps at the other person directly (Capricorn Venus - socially tends to be pretty direct) Yoongi does it too, but he has so much Pisces Mercury/Sun in the Cancer decan it’s all suppressed under that Virgo Moon-- pressed into becoming a grudge. 

Namjoon’s the type to use his Sagittarius Moon first to react, raging and getting all up about it. If he feels like he can’t outright protest, he resorts to his Scorpio Venus’s analytical nature to figure out the best way to hit it (Mars trad. ruler Scorpio but also social relationship) and exert himself with this Cancer Mars. 

Out of all the Cancer Mars Namjoon seems to be the one who goes about it the most passive aggressively (which mean it’s working well for him) Jin just uses his Aries/Scorpio to direct it out immediately. While Yoongi is more of the wait and see grudgey type. 

Jin and Yoongi probably more of the type to go back into their shell when hurt and confront it themselves first, while Namjoon’s pridefulness (along with aspects such as his Mercury-Mars) and rage sends him spiraling it outwardly most of the time.

Of course he’ll react like Jin and Yoongi too, but what comes naturally to people of the same placement can be different from one another. It’s just a matter of figuring it all out, the hierarchy and everything in their chart. How direct/open it’s flowing with one another.

Anyways, Namjoon Jin and Yoongi are all very tenacious and it shows. This is a common trait between Cancer Mars, their dedication to their work once they put their mind to it. 

As much as they need security/validation before they take any physical action (sensing/edging into the territory) once they choose to step foot in the direction they take charge (cardinal). 

Cancer are defensive but they’re not stagnant about it (not like fixed signs). They move forward, they’re constantly growing/learning as they integrate knowledge/feeling little by little.

Although they can appear slow because they’re not like-- aggressively attacking. They’re more like aggressively defensive and tentatively attacking.  

Aspects

Mars (Cancer) - Opposition - Uranus (Capricorn)

Mars aspecting Uranus gives the person a love for the eccentric, unusual and underdog type of people. 

He wants to make a difference for people like that, for people who are suffering from that difference. 

At the same time this need can be brash, acting without thinking. Lacks the stability/focus it needs that keeps Cancer Mars defensive. 

When it’s pulled one way or the other, sometimes it sacrifices the biggest lesson/trait the sign has to learn in order to Win against the other y know. It’s tough like that. 

It also emphasizes both Cancer-Capricorn’s worst trait, which is their stubbornness and inability to listen to others/open up to others. 

Mars (Cancer) - Opposition - Neptune (Capricorn)

This probably brought on alot of his introspective insecurities, since it talks about his dreams/subconscious/vision not being able to bring it through his actions into reality. 

It really emphasize that Depression Feels that Saturn (Pisces) brings about in us. 

A lot of hesitation with not exactly knowing what he wants, and being scared of whether he can manifest it into reality or not

And if he can, then is it what he really wants? Will he regret it later?

Cancer and Capricorn both wants stability before they act, so when they’re at opposition to each other it creates this dynamic where they have to learn from each other, compromise and understand each other through their differences. 

With Mars (activity) and Neptune (dreams/visions/subconscious) it’s wanting to bring/merge everything together but being held back by fear of rejection/criticism. 

Stemming from that initial hesitancy/fear of not knowing exactly how to phrase/word themselves, they don’t know if they can have the go-ahead to do things or if they should wait it out/look for other signs. 

Mars (Cancer) - Sextile - Lilith (Taurus)

This is really cute since it’s at 0 degrees 

He’s always so surprised when people genuinely think he’s handsome/sexy/attractive/charming

Like-- his embarrassment is so genuinely him and humbling. Lilith is the space between the planets, so the void that talks about insecurities and a part of what our deepest fears might be (arguable, since it’s not a planet itself but the space between planets)

Namjoon’s Cancer Mars has the kind of placements that’s more suitable for someone to say he’s a ‘charming gentle oppa who feels kind and caring and like he can take care of others well’ -- so hearing he’s sexy/attractive/charming is such a?? wow I didn’t expect that moment for him.  

Asteroids

Virgo Chiron Scorpio Juno Taurus Lilith  NN in Scorpio  

Conclusion

Alot of the main focus was on the Sun-Moon aspect and placement themselves. For Namjoon, it ties in a lot with his head/heart and overall personality.

His luminary here is where the struggle is really at, everything else is kind of negotiating/meditating between the two, as well as doing their individual thing. 

Because his Sun-Moon ties into a lot of his other placements, the aspect it makes are more observable to see when we look at how it’s manifesting for him. (broadcast, interviews, etc.)

Besides the Virgo Sun/Capricorn Decan stuff, the Moon-Saturn aspect was hard to do. 

Namjoon’s probably been predisposed/conditioned through negative challenges and came to expect it, and stays stuck in that cycle he has to break from. 

It contributes a lot to his own self-worth, self-love and insecurities. It makes him even more reserved, even more sullen and moody. 

It makes him stubborn but also hesitant. Swings between craving/wanting nurture/intimacy and being distrustful/uncommunicative about his expectation and therefore-- hurting others around him.   

It plays a lot into his expectation, and as a leader he probably feels like he can’t develop fully into embracing optimism either. He has to keep an eye out for the team. This doesn’t help with his indecision, keeping one foot in and one foot out in his adjustment/expectation for the future. He can’t fully trust fate to play him a good hand. It does fuels a lot into his Virgo’s critical nature as well as his Libra Mercury’s analytical one though. 

The Venus-Saturn and a lot of the positive aspects we really nice to look at. 

I know I didn’t touch on the duality of positive-negative aspects (I only did one narrative for each one) but you should still remember/see that positive aspects will still have negative trait if used weirdly (and negative aspects will still have positive trait despite being a naturally occurring challenge to deal with) 

We don’t really get to see a lot of harder stuff on Namjoon which is what should be celebrated/looked at to appreciate him, so I hope this reading puts a little more focus on that so we don’t gloss over his hardship/challenges 

Know that there’s a lot of positive things in his chart going on for him too, this is just a narrative that shines a light on his hardship a bit more so we can embrace/appreciate him better (fully). 

💕I hope this wasn’t too tedious for you to read through, there’s alot to touch on within the post. But I’ll be condensing all the positive stuff +more Namjoon focused stuff in his ‘NJ Birthday Project’ series. Again, this is just my interpretation of things, it’s just one narrative in the overall scope of how much we can learn so other ideas/thoughts on the subject are just expansion on the main branch of astrology. We’re all participating to the community here, thank you for joining me in my journey (I’ll probably edit the Venus + Mars part and add in more later)  💕

[sunset-spring]

Thank you for answering my question. There were many things you said that I agreed with, and some things that I didn't agree with, but overall I'm glad that you told me your thoughts on the matter. If you don't mind, I do have another question that I want to ask you. I just wanted to know whether or not you think Voltron's reputation is completely unsalvageable at this point - like, do you think it will ever have the same love and respect it once did? Again, thank you.

No problem! Everybody has their own feelings on it, everybody’s different, etc. That’s part of why I included a bit more of a personal bit when discussing Shiro: everyone’s going to have a opinion based on their own personal aspects. 

The reputation of the show is something I’m not so sure about, sadly. As seasons progressed, the reactions have slowly but surely just turned more and more negative and vitriolic.

Which if the show has disappointed some viewers, that’s totally fine, I’m not going to tell them that they’re wrong for not enjoying it. I’ve been through plenty of shows that I enjoyed that by the end I wasn’t satisfied with. That’s just how things go sometimes.

But the continuing trend I’ve seen that, instead of choosing to move on to a show that they enjoy more, they continue to stew and focus on what they hate.

Don’t get me wrong, venting and talking about it in itself isn’t a bad thing. That’s just having an opinion and expressing/explaining it. And being critical of a piece of media isn’t a bad thing. But when it gets to a point of doing nothing but stewing in the negativity of how much you dislike a show, and spreading that hate as much as possible, then it gets excessive. Which is not really a healthy thing to do. I caught myself doing it back in the day with a few shows, and ultimately I eventually had to take a step back and look at what I was doing: I wasn’t enjoying it, I was just enjoying hating it. And it was cathartic for a bit, but eventually it stopped being and it was just me staying angry for the sake of staying angry. And when I realized it, I questioned what I was getting out of it.

The answer was just “making myself angry.” And I wasn’t enjoying that. So I found new things that made me happy and excited again.

It’s a growing fandom trend that I’ve seen a lot: instead of enjoying a piece of media, it’s become about finding every flaw it has - whether valid or nitpick, objective or subjective - and breaking it down until enjoying it is either no longer possible or something people should do. Instead of it being about liking something, it becomes all about disliking something.

Because the show has ended, and the overwhelming amount of negativity over the show has only grown steadily, I’m sadly not sure if positivity will ever be as prevalent. Hopefully with time and the continued release of new media and content, those who dislike the show now will find something new an positive to focus on, and this trend of fandoms being about discourse can eventually fade as a whole. Fandoms go through phases, so I don’t think this trend will last forever. 

I still love and enjoy the show - it’s why I still draw art of it, continue to work on the Cadet Squad Ask Blog and try to keep that blog as positive as possible. And I hope people who still enjoy the show aren’t pushed to feel bad for still liking it. 

I wish I could give a more happy, reassuring response to this like “Oh sure it there’ll be plenty of love for the show widespread again!” But the reputation as a whole is a much bigger and more fickle thing, sadly. All I can do is try to be the positivity I want to see and hope that helps others be positive as well.