#anyway marcille's having the time of her life right now

[dunmeshistash]

Greetings, Mr. Meshi!

This is perhaps a bit of an unorthodox question, but one that has been bothering me for an unreasonable amount of time.

Now, here's the thing: I OBSESS over Marcille outliving everyone she holds dear. It's a theme very close to me, but even beyond that I just find it to be one of the most interesting elements of Dungeon Meshi's story for me personally. I've written an embarrassing amount of lengthy essays on it that will never see the light of day - that's how obsessed I am over this specific element of her character. But, there's something that bothers me...

A lot of poignant stories and artworks that tackle this topic get comments on 'em whenever Falin is the subject of aging, each one some variation of "Everything points to Falin having an extended lifespan after her revival!" which... Seems weird to me?

I don't know why this bothers me so much, but setting aside my personal annoyances, I don't remember anything pointing to this at all. At least, nothing concrete.

I don't know if this is a question you'd want to answer or not, but since your blog is a hub for all sorts of opinions and headcanons, I'd love to know where this line of thought could originate from.

I really wouldn't blame you if you didn't answer this question, though. Part of me feels I'm just asking this because I want to see if others share in my confusion or not.

Rrrregardless, though! Lemme take the opportunity to say that your blog is delighful. Love it! Also, that mushroom man with the funny face that sometimes responds to you with lengthy essays is also really cool. Everyone is cool. At least here on the northern hemisphere! It is smack dab in the middle of fall, after all! Coolness all around! Stay frosty! Or don't! Maybe warm up at a fireplace. I don't know!

Hi there! Thank you for the kind words, I love reading other's opinions on what I post so I also love the additions by the mushroom <3

It's quite hot over here in northeast Brazil, send some coolness my way please I'm dying.

Your question isn't strange at all! And I don't mind answering anything (unless it's rude or sounds like shipping war bait) so don't worry.

(Decided to put the rest under a readmore, TLDR: Kui said "maybe so, right?" about Falin having a longer lifespan but I have arguments why I don't think this actually confirms it. Anyway if you're someone who likes the headcanon you might want to skip this post)

To be honest those type of comments bother me too because I also LOVE Marcille's struggle with mortality and sometimes "Falin will live much longer!" feels undermining of the lesson she had to learn. I don't mind it in the headcanon sphere where everything is allowed and happy endings grow on trees but when it becomes intertwined with canon it starts to make me a little disappointed.

Just a reminder of the lesson she has to learn

She has to come to terms with the cycle of life and death, that something she wants (everyone to live longer) shouldn't be forced upon others just because it causes her grief. So, to me at least, Falin being made into something that will end up outliving other tallmen would undermine the message? In a canon sense ofc, if you're writing a wish fulfillment story then her living longer would have a different meaning, I just wanna be clear I have nothing against it in that sense, it all depends on what story you're trying to tell.

Anyway, actually answering your question that idea comes from the fact she was fused to a Red Dragon, and the fact her body has been affected by it, her sight was fixed and she grows feathers for example, so people theorize maybe her lifespan has been affected too. But we don't really know how long dragon's live so it's hard to say how much it would have been affected if at all.

It also comes from this answer Kui gave in a QnA

Q: Would Falin have an extended lifespan after the whole chimera thing? A: Maybe so, right?

To me this reads as the usual non-answers Kui gives, like, "I'll leave it up to your imagination" but for other people this read as a confirmation of the headcanon, in another questions she answers "I hope so" about Thistle leading a happy life after having his desires eaten and it's even debatable if Thistle survived at all so I don't think those comments indicate much of canon (I'm that way about most QnA answers tbh, unless it's something inconsequential like confirming Mithrun's Brother's name or stuff about very minor characters)

Another argument I have against her having a different lifespan is Izutsumi, Izu has been mixed with a monster but continues to age at the same rate a Tallmen would, even tho she also has different biology because of the Great Cat she's fused with (ears, reflexes, eyes etc etc) she is still a tallman

Falin isn't really the same thing as Izutsumi tho, I understand, but it's the closest example we have, if we believe the AB descriptions and demi-humans are really mixes between humans and monsters that's also another argument about it not affecting lifespan, since all of them are short lived and have an average lifespan of 55.

All of this *can* be dissmissed tho, the other demi-humans and beastmen are all mixed with mammal monsters and nothing nearly as powerful as a Dragon, so there is arguments to be made that Falin is different and that she *might* have an extended lifespan, all I'm saying is that there's no solid confirmation of it, it's fine to believe it but going around "correcting" other people saying it's a fact wouldn't be right I don't think, especially if you're saying that in a conversation about Marcille journey of death acceptance.

Death is a touchy subject and everyone is at different stages of their own journeys with it so I really don't want to judge those who would rather have Falin or even Laios live longer. I'm not really sure how to talk about this in the proper way, but I hope I didn't make anyone upset!

[bi-hop]

crawling out of the 'university AU' dungeon, drenched in blood, to bring you all new shit

toshiro, laios, and namari, sitting in a circle and drinking beer:

namari: sooo how's things with that tall-man? the uh... I don't know how old he is. that one guy.

toshiro: kabru?

namari: yeah!

laios, slumping over: marcille says i'm in the talking stage with him. i don't even know what that is

namari, under her breath: you're going to marcille for love advice?

toshiro (he didn't hear her): I think a talking stage is a 'friendship'

laios:

[holmsister]

Anyway Farcille/Labru AU inspired by one person's very great bad dating stories making the rounds on tumblr rn.

So Falin wants to ask Marcille out but their parents are homophobic and Falin isn't even sure Marcille is gay so Falin and Laios come up with a very clever certified Touden Siblings Genius PlanTM: *Laios* is going to ask Marcille out and Falin is going to be there for chaperoning. And then at the right time Laios would leave them alone with an excuse so Falin can shoot her shot and if things go badly Laios can just bring Marcille back home. Bulletproof.

Except their parents are now super enthusiastic about Laios FINALLY starting to date to the point that they insist that Falin can stay home and he doesn't need a chaperone he's a big boy man etc etc

So they have to come up with a backup plan. Now Laios *and* Falin are going on a double date (parents doubly happy). Except Laios has to find a guy to fake-date Falin.

He cannot ask Shuro because Shuro has a crush on Falin and even Laios knows that would be a mess. That leaves literally the one other person of the male persuasion in their age range who talks to Laios in this scenario who is this exceedingly cute guy who is a regular at [whatever min wage job Laios is doing in this scenario] and always has this super cute smile and as my readers have probably already guessed. It's Kabru. So he fumblingly and awkwardly manages to set up a date for Falin and Kabru. Asking is such an ordeal that he decides he'll just explain things as they go. You might think that's not really a good idea but you need to imagine proposing this to Kabru was Laios' singular most stressful experience of his fucmin life. He lost like 5kg.

Then when the evening of the date comes and they go pick up Kabru and Marcille it clearly appears that both Kabru *and* Marcille are both convinced they were being invited to a date with Laios ALONE and are rather confused about what all of these other people are doing here

[tanoraqui]

Dungeon Meshi Liveblog: Let's Eat!

(That is, let's live, want, connect... oh, you know what I mean by now)

I like how Yaad and the other living villagers can casually talk with the ghosts, because for all intents and purposes they were also ghosts... In fact, those who stayed and spent centuries going through the patterns of life even though all true meaning had been lost long ago were MORE "ghosts" than those who lost their corporeal forms because they wanted to escape so badly that they went wandering... That's so fuckin' good. I wanna eat this writing.

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Kabru just randomly walking out of the bushes the second Laios starts considering politics...love him. He was summoned. His PR spidey senses were going off.

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look at my boy, establishing his own authority.

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Lol this was me when we moved house last month, and my job was to just stand in the new living room and tell people where to put which box or piece of furniture. It's an important job in a task with a lot of people!

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FUCK YEAH, THAT'S MY MAN! HE LOOKS GREAT!

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fucking love the trope of "one savvy friend in the crowd who deliberately gets a supportive chant going." Of course it's Kabru.

Though it's important to note that the first thing someone called was, "The demon-eater's here!", and there was muttering while no one was entirely sure if that was a good thing or not... Kabru didn't start the rumble of the crowd; the rumble of the crowd is unavoidable, and you have to be aware of that. Laios has always been aware of that, he's just never known what to do about it, and so tried to avoid it. But he's not avoiding it anymore - so Kabru started the hype of the crowd.

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They're both right! In order to eat, you need to kill! A memento of a meal IS a spoil of war!

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They're unhappy bros... /laughing

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Shown: man desperately reassuring himself, and psyching himself up to eat this stupid dragon meat

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DADCHUCK. Istg my father has said the same thing to me.

p.s. oh thank god he's fully dressed again. it was indecent.

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Marcille is so resigned to this, and so...determined to see it as her own choice. "We all agreed", "I've got to go" - and I'm sure she does see it as her own choice, in a way, because this is how the world has always worked and she knows that. She knew that going in. Those who do ancient magic are arrested by the Elves of the West, that's just the "natural" consequence. She might've gotten away with it if she'd gone undiscovered, or if she'd stayed in the dungeon forever, but she didn't - she chose to pursue her craft, to save Falin, and to do everything after that, too, and so she implicitly chose the consequence with it. If it's unfair, well, thinking that changes nothing, so it's better not to think it.

Until Laios is like, "Actually, I might have political power now? And I'm SO goddamn tired of myself and people I love being punished just for being different, and interested in unconventional things. Let's try something."

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WELL-FUCKING-PLAYED! GET THEIR ASSES, LAIOS! It's especially great because I'm pretty sure he knows the answers to all of this by now? Power move!

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Is she sitting there completely nude except for jewelry and a short robe. Icons only, honestly. Though "we have the luxury of time" feels like so much of a threat from an elf.

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Hey, you did objectively defeat him! Okay arguably the Lion did but Laios did it first, he just also then talked to him, and got grabbed by friendly vine-tentacles. You didn't kill him, but that's not what Delgal asked for anyway!

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thinking about that post that observed that Thistle's driving madness was specifically getting Delgal home for dinner, to eat all together as a family again, and he wakes up to the sound of the people of the Golden Kingdom eagerly inviting the (new) king to eat, and him responding...crying... What is lost is lost, but life will go on.

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The moment when a character decides to lie to another character for their own good is always so compelling. The little moral quandary microcosm.

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So Yaad did know something of what passed between Delgal and Thistle, that drove Thistle down the path to dark magic. He know what it was his grandfather blamed himself for.

This is SUCH A GOOD AND QUIET-SAD DEATH SCENE, but as a consummate fan of 'actually, living is much much harder than dying, and much more interesting too', I do like to think Thistle lives and has to...figure out what to do with his life. And that 'what to do with his life' ends up including ancient magic mad science with Marcille.

...But honestly, even though that'd be fun for me, it seems almost cruel to Thistle. He's been alive for so long. Those he loved most are gone. He held the demon back from the surface, trapped in those books, for so long, even if it was in no way whatsoever with the good of the world in mind. If anyone deserves this peaceful death in (what he thinks are) his brother's forgiving arms, it's him.

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Unfortunately, my love, as has been ceaselessly proven in this story: that's life.

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Marcille has caught onto one of the major themes! However, this story still isn't in favor of afternoon special Moral of the Story - not of letting the characters wrap things up with a bow, at least. You just go on living and wanting and learning about and connecting with and killing new things, forever! That's how it goes! You never know everything and you're always a little bit starving!

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I really love this grumpy old man, and I want him to stick around and be one of Laios's advisors. He's an old gnome, he'll die as soon as an average tallman would anyway.

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This is a) very touching coming from Mithrun, who is only just regaining his own will to live, and b) almost tautalogical in this story EXCEPT that it is also clear that merely "wanting" doesn't mean you get to continue to live, it only means that you're alive in this moment - you also need to want to live MORE than whatever's trying to kill you wants to live.

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GREAT VISUALS!

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And then it's so small, so small that she could leave it behind entirely but Falin is still so kind that she picks it up anyway! Falin who looks at everyone and everything - ghosts and brothers and mad mages and dead dragons, the latter of whom were both violently oppressing her soul - and thinkgs "I gotta help." She's so good!

I'm really going to need to write a like 2k post-canon character study about how Falin has part of the spirit of a dragon in her chest which unfurls while she travels abroad and curls up again and hides when she's home with Marcille and especially with Laios, and how it's a metaphor for her own independence but also literally there is the spirit of a dragon. At the end of it she figures out how to nurture and commune with the dragon enough to have her own flight-capable wings.

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THIS IS SO FUCKING COOL-LOOKING. AUTOPHAGIC SELF-CREATION FOR THE FUCKING WIN!!

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YYEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

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fuck it, have a collage, because this bitch-ass website is about to cut off my photos-per-post. It can't HANDLE the sheet joy of Falin resurrection reunion hugs!!

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so many people love her, or at least are really emotionally invested in this now!! /sobs

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Lmaoooo

Laios: wracked with food poisoning because he ate raw walking mushroom Falin: great distress! Marcille: trying very hard to help, also thinking sooo hard that He Is An Idiot. [btw I love how it looks like she takes up holding her hair back with a band] Kabru: having his weekly moment, as he has for the past many years and will continue to have until he dies, of wondering if he shouldn't really have just killed this guy rather than let him become king

Kabru definitely wrote this whole ending narration btw. This is his press release from like 40 years in the future. And those kids! An orc kid and a kobold kid, and zooming out to show kids of other races, all playing together and going to lunch together!!

And then they all lived, and hungered and ate and killed and wanted and sought understanding and connected with one another and were part of the great circle of life, as happily ever after as one can get.

This story truly was delicious...in dungeon!

[furubabasket]

dunmeshi posting today (spoilers ahead for manga marcille stuff)

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i feel like there is so much to say and analyze about the fact that marcille's biggest--realest--fear is outliving everyone around her... specifically within the world of dungeon meshi that kui has created.

marcille's fear will certainly happen. (maybe not with falin, if her lifespan has been dragonified, but there's no way for us or for falin or marcille to know this yet.) and marcille has already watched every single one of her close friends die--temporarily. sometimes the circumstances have been dicey (or in falin's case nearly impossible) in ways that caused mounting dread and very real fear (in a way that seems uniquely upsetting in a world which has gotten somewhat blase about dungeon deaths--to have casual hope and to lose it), not even mentioning the initial shock, but so far, loss has not been final for marcille in recent years. that makes it hit all the harder when she has to contend with the possibility of falin being Dead For Good (such as when they couldn't find her bones in the dragon's stomach).

the thing that makes me absolutely sick about this is how marcille ends up just... having to swallow that her fear will come to pass. she just has to accept that both the "fix" she hoped for (the possibility of equalizing racial lifespans) is unethical and the "fix" she ALREADY USED (dungeon revivification) is impossible to implement everywhere. she just has to accept that no matter what, even in a world where death and loss isn't always final, she is doomed to experience it anyway or else succumb to the abusive and addictive pull of the demons' "security" like thistle and mithrun. (sidenote: all of the dungeon lords being elves, iirc, is telling and tragic.) I love the ending of dunmeshi and find it so compelling, and yet this is something that sticks out to me as so, so importantly "unresolved" even if I can't fully articulate it. marcille is not over this, and she can't be--while everyone else looks to the future, by definition hers is darker. that's going to take a lot more time to come to terms with. the moral is that whole "eating is the special privilege of the living," right? the moral comes down to "life involves hurting and being hurt, and that is the way of things, no matter how we run from it... but that doesn't have to be soul-crushingly depressing." marcille's friends are aware of the burden she has. they talk with her about her fears and comfort her without minimizing them. they help her feel less alone in what is a completely alienating existence. it's so fucking sad. it's horrifically sad! she got to save falin--but for how long? she got to save falin--but what about the next one? she got to save falin--why is that okay, but she isn't allowed to "have" everyone else? saving falin was only possible because of the help of a demon and forbidden magic, and while it's presented creepily, as readers we're certainly meant to root for falin's return. it's a "good" thing. it's the entire point of the first act, and the entire point of the very last. it's the good ending. it's happy! it's hard-won! and yet marcille needs to learn to accept death.

this dissonance is intentional, of course, and that's what makes it so fucking interesting. of course marcille goes crazy for a second. of course she struggles and obsesses. everyone else, functionally, gets to have what she wants! everyone else gets to "have" the dead now, no strings attached, no abnormal amount of future grief to carry. (for the opposite, past loss, imagine being kabru: being raised from the dead--watching your friends get casually revived--paying for the privilege--and thinking of your long-dead mother, who didn't get this chance, and wondering how easy it could have been.) in the future, when marcille's losses come, the dungeon's rules won't be around to protect her anymore from that cold, dull finality. it'll be real when it wasn't before. and she just has to be cool with that. man. MAN.

[possamble]

do you have any particular thoughts regarding marcille being a half-elf? its interesting to me considering the fact that she seems self-conscious about being a half-elf, but denies it when its brought up

i remember marcille looking visibly uncomfortable over laios simply asking her how old she is, which i think the only reason she might feel nervous about this is because it might reveal her as a half-elf to him.

she's never corrected anybody whose called her an elf either.

never mind the circumstances of the reveal, in which thistle goes on about how half-elves are inferior and accusing her of wanting to become full blooded elf, she seemed particularly upset like he struck a nerve-

i wish the half-elf thing was built upon more. also, underrated marcille line:

okay so i revisited this sequence just to make sure I could back myself up and it's just... man. there's a lot going on.

the first reaction we get from Marcille is this huge panel that takes up half of the page

she is viscerally affected. flushing to the tips of her ears with the intensity of it. and we see it again, a few pages later

so it might seem like she's embarrassed about it and lying to herself, but... I really think it's just that Thistle is accidentally hitting sore spots. If you really look at what he says to get these reactions

"you'll live out your entire life [...] and die that way too"

"a hundred years from now, nobody will be there"

Hear me out. I think, if he stuck to harping on about her inferiority without bringing up how terrifyingly long-lived she is, she wouldn't have been as bothered. But right now, Thistle is accidentally hitting all the marks on Marcille's deepest fears-- and this is after the Winged Lion promised her that her dreams could come true in an extremely vulnerable moment, so it also hits her slightly guilty conscience as well.

I do truly believe that Marcille isn't bothered about being a half-elf the way that people assume she'd be bothered by it. To her, the biggest problem with being a half-elf is that it's isolating.

On one hand, it's not hard to imagine why she'd distance herself from elves in the west. A lot of them can clock her as a half-elf on sight, unlike other races, and therefore she's always branded with this weird stigma of being Othered -- I would even say that she considers herself lucky for being born outside of elven culture instead of having to grow up in it. I mean, just... look at the way elves talk about her.

Skipping past the uncomfortable implication of what 'not tolerating the existence' of half-elves would actually entail, this is incredibly fucking annoying. You can see why she wouldn't want to be around elves much. You see a lot of Marcille reacting badly here, but honestly, almost all of it can be attributed to her freaking out that her bluff completely failed. She's honestly more paying attention to Izutsumi's footsteps and trying to coordinate an opportunity to escape.

And in the end, you see her built-up frustration at being asked if she wants to be a full-blooded elf like 2-3 times in a row.

Yeah, yeah, "the lady doth protest too much," and all. But we know Marcille. We know that she's a lot more embarrassed and horrendously unconvincing when she's being prodded about something she's actually self-conscious about.

Moving onto the flipside of things, it might seem weird that she "pretends" to be a full elf around other races, but it's not really that strange if you think about it. Again, people are weird about her being infertile or whatever, and a lots of them don't even know much about what sets half-elves apart from everyone else. I mean, look at how uncomfortable Laios is just asking her about it

and look at how exasperated and resigned she looks

And like... she's right. Where would that come up in normal conversation? Why would she go out of her way to tell them? She's functionally a normal elf to other races anyway -- got the ears, the abnormally long "childhood", and the huge mana capacity. Unless it's directly relevant or important for people to know, I don't think it's all that strange or indicative of insecurity that she prefers not to bother with it.

(This combined with her sense of being an "outsider" to elf culture also explains why she thinks elf superiority is embarrassing. She sees the way elves treat short-lived races from the "outsider" perspective nonetheless, and thinks it's obnoxious; especially more so because she usually has to play the elf around short-lived races and deal with the reputation of arrogance that elves have built up.)

The sad thing is, this all means that... she doesn't actually fit in anywhere. She doesn't like going out West much because of how elves treat her. But she's also an outsider in the continents she was born in, treated like this exotic long-lived alien choosing to live among short-lived races for some reason. She is always an outsider, the Other, no matter where she goes. Add in the fact that she'll live longer than literally anyone she knows, and it's honestly kind of heartbreaking.

And I think that's the crux of it. Marcille really doesn't act like she's at all self-conscious about being a half-elf because of any feelings of inferiority or being half-made or whatever. She considers herself a perfectly legitimate being and might even, in some ways, consider herself superior to normal elves because she's not blind with elf supremacy or whatever. (And whatever "elven biases" she displays, all of them are born more out of the fact that she's kind of bad at conceptualizing how other races age and mature compared to herself, not that she actually considers herself better or more mature simply for being an elf.)

I think that whatever self-consciousness Marcille has about being a half-elf is, instead, related to terror and loneliness. The reminder that it ensures she'll never truly belong anywhere for the rest of her very long life. The reminder that, in truth, even she's not actually sure how old she is by other races' standards (hence the discomfort when asked how old she is). She doesn't want to not be a half elf, or be a full elf or full tall-man-- in her ideal world, she's still a half-elf. She just gets to live out her life at the same pace with the people she loves and doesn't have to say goodbye again and again and again until she dies.

and one last very important panel, right after Mithrun tells her that all her desires would be devoured

In her ideal world, she's still a half-elf and reality magically starts marching at her pace. But failing that, the second best thing is that she's still a half-elf-- but one who is able to accept reality and let go of her fear.

(But the rest of the story pans out the way it does because, to Marcille, taking reality apart and reshaping it was less scary than simply and fully reconciling with it.)

[everlastingremorse-blog]

Dungeon Meshi and the Paradox of the Winged Lion

I just finished reading Dungeon Meshi, and I really liked it. It took me about 4 days to read it, and I was looking for a good manga, and it really whet my appetite after I saw that there was an anime.

So I’ve been mulling this over since I finished it, as I needed time to digest the narrative, but also, I wanted a little intro to warn about spoilers. Lots and lots and lots of spoilers.

So we eventually learn that a certain character, The Winged Lion, is, in fact, a demon. Now, that’s not necessarily too much of a twist. I didn’t see it coming, but it didn’t completely come out of left field.

But what is really interesting is how holy and sacred The Winged Lion is. If I remember correctly, TWL is first referenced as “the land’s guardian,” by Yaad, prince of the Golden Kingdom.

Now, a lion with wings is a novel idea, even if it isn’t a super innovative one. But most importantly, that’s not the extent of TWL’s design. It’s implied his more natural state is a 4 armed, anthropomorphic, winged lion with 5 eyes and 4 horns. That’s probably not it’s original form, but it does seem to be the form it identifies with. (It’s also super hot)

Image for reference.

Now, I’m not the only person that saw it, right? This is very similar to a ‘biblically accurate angel.’

Quick note on that term, biblically accurate is a bit misleading. The Bible is full of contradictions. So an angel as a human with wings is as valid as a ring covered in eyes with a pair of wings on it. What we consider “biblically accurate,” is more often seen in stuff like Dante’s Pardisio.

Anyways, back to my point. Is TWL a demon? Or is it an angel? (Let’s put translations aside, because I do not speak Japanese nor do I think it matters too much.) But TWL is called a demon by the canaries (aka the dungeon investigation squad, I think) as the kind of the “root” of the dungeon.

TWL was explicitly summoned using “dark magic,” from a “realm of infinite energy.” Now, Marcille specifies that “dark magic” is a social construct. It’s not inherently evil or corrupting, but it is ancient magic that is taboo.

But the main point from that is that TWL is not from hell. If anything, a “realm of infinite energy” is closer to my understanding of God. A being of infinite power that is so vast that it’s own body is a dimension. That would put TWL as a kind of “angel,” a being made from god’s power/body.

Another thing about TWL is that he is inherently Faustian. He brings about the desires of others so that he can eat them. Much like a farmer or beekeeper, he has a dungeon master so that he can grow their desires and eat them (and also so that he can escape and eat all desires everywhere, all at once)

Now, the thing is is that he can’t just grant desires. He has to have a specific desire to grant, but he can only grant them in specific ways.

TWL offers to bring Marcille’s father back, but the the best he can do it make a doppelgänger. He can maybe bring Falin back, but that’s because she died and became part of the dungeon. And I haven’t made it clear before, but he is the dungeon. Thus he can maybe bring Falin back because she is a part of him.

It’s why Marcille tries to use monsters to invade the surface in order to extend her friends life. Because escaping is the only way TWL could possibly extend everyone’s life, because they would be in his stomach.

But back to the point, TWL, technically, is trying to help. He has no choice but to help. In a very Faustian kind of way, engaging with TWL damns you no matter what your desire or motivation is.

And according to Namari, being inside TWL’s stomach is pleasurable. At least at the beginning, when she only got to be there for, at most, like, 30 minutes. I don’t think the exact time is specified, but she did seem to have a good time. It’s possible, that like the citizens of the golden kingdom, it starts out pleasurable, but that doesn’t stop you from desiring new things. I personally doubt that, because they weren’t in the state of bliss that Namath described, but it is possible that the infinite realm isn’t as heavenly as it appears.

Just like The Winged Lion Himself.

Now, I am not a Christian. I only have a kind of pop-culture osmosis of Christianity that comes from living in America. So this next part might be my misinterpretation of the Christian doctrine.

So, I mentioned earlier that an angel as a human with wings is just as valid as a “biblically accurate” angel.

Thus, to make a lion divine, you can give it wings too. Angel lion. Literally, if you look up “angel lion,” that is what you get.

But lions are significantly both in fantasy and Christianity. A lion is often the symbol of a king. King of the jungle. Strong, powerful, and regal. As in Richard the Lionheart. Thus, it makes a lot of sense for it to be associated with Liaos, the future king, devourer of all horrible things. A lion is a predator, after all.

But Christianity is where it gets a bit interesting, because lions are sometimes associated with the lion of Judah. I do think this is more Old Testament stuff, ya know, pre-Jesus, but I do think it gets associated with Jesus. Check me on that if I’m wrong.

Anyways, this creates a kind of messiah symbolism that TWL shares. It is trying to bring out a revelation about how the world works. And quite frankly, he does. The queen of the elves ends up theorizing that TWL was just a manifestation of mana so that it can communicate with the sentient population. Or, it could be following Marcille’s approach, and showing that ancient magic is just another form mana can take.

This messiah metaphor is amplified by the other form TWL takes: a lamb. TWL would offer up it’s own body in the form of a lamb so that humans can eat it. Hell, that’s how it started in the world, offering up it’s body so that something else can eat.

The Winged Lion quite literally sacrifices it’s own body for the survival of others.

Finally, the winged lion is in everything, and everything is a part of the winged lion. This is most apparent in the dungeon, where monsters are literally parts of the winged lion.

It’s king of hard to see, but the winged lion’s face is made out of different monsters in the image.

I think this is significant for two reasons. Christians can see god in anything. As an atheist, this has confused me, but I think I get it. When I look out and see beauty, Christians see the beauty of god. We see the same thing, but just disagree where it comes from.

But TWL is technically in everything. Certainly the main characters, as they’ve been eating monsters, but also in the inanimate objects of the dungeon. The water and the walls and the treasure are all parts of the dungeon itself. And if TWL is, as the queen said, a part of mana itself, is inside every individual. Or it might be more accurate to say, TWL comes from something that is inside everyone.

Either way, this seems very analogous to “the Holy Spirit.”

In conclusion, this is a strange paradox because it isn’t inherently contradictory. Demon’s are not exclusively bad, even in the Bible (for example, In The Book of Job, God seeks out Satan’s advice). But it creates an ambiguity within the winged lion that examines the importance of understanding and living with life’s shortcomings; that we incorporate the world into our bodies and identities; and that sometimes the solution you’re looking for is just a hearty meal.

[fumifooms]

Marcille & Chilchuck contrasts & similarities

Yesterday in the Dunmeshi Discord we talked about narrative foils and I ended up writing a lot about my fave duo so. Informal character analysis time. I give some in-depth interpretations on aspects of Chilchuck’s character near the end as well, not just analyzing their characters in how they contrast each other

Marcille and Chil are so foils to me. "Has experienced loss through death and now clings onto the people around her and is overly interested in engaging in social gossip" vs "has experienced loss through rejection and now refuses to open up to anyone until socially starved", both are responding to their experience with loss in fully different ways, socializing and trying to learn all she can for the short time she has with others but trying to keep digestible enough that she’s not too attached if she loses them, vs refusing to socialize so the problem stops before it begins but eventually unable to resist the pull that comes with being a social creature. Like I guess what I’m trying to say is that Marcille engaging with social gossip could be a shallow way for her to vicariously experience social relationships if she feels like forming deep bonds is unsafe. Family is a core motivation and value for them but in different ways. Both want to keep the status quo but in different ways.

Divorcee who avoids love wether it be in the people around him or thinking about his own (past?) romance vs hopeless romantic that idealizes love without herself having been in a relationship or even in love herself as far as we know. Middle child vs only child. Emotional constipation vs emotional intelligence. Streets savvy vs prestigious academic, field experience vs book smarts. Crass vs prim. Overbearingly social vs private to a fault. Never externalizes his feelings and to a degree represses them vs wears her heart on her sleeve and her feelings on her face. They start out underestimating each other in different ways, one by assuming his age and the other by undermining her skills, experience and willpower. Both seeing each other’s motives as somewhat skewed (money and research of shady magic respectively) but growing to respect them.

They also both seek approval and validation from others, unlike Senshi and even Laios who don’t seem to care about outside perception as much, Marcille worries early on that she’s not helpful enough and slowing the party down meanwhile Chilchuck is almost always trying to prove a point early on that he’s capable and mature. Coincidentally enough, Chilchuck’s approval was both the catalyst and the key to resolving her arc about it in the mandrake chapter, meanwhile besides Senshi Marcille is the one whose perception of Chilchuck gets the most changed over the course of the whole manga. Something else notable is how they deal differently with their races being judged, while Chilchuck reaffirms himself as a proud half-foot, Marcille hides her half-elf nature and is embarrassed of it when it’s revealed. Something subtle yet interesting is also how they both are shown to prefer lying in a way that makes them look bad rather than admitting ignorance on something. Chilchuck says that he cheated on his wife and that’s why she left rather than just saying that he doesn’t know why she did. Marcille in the mandrake chapter says that she has used a dog to harvest mandrakes (thus killing it) before while in truth she never has, and everyone including herself is like "That’s horrible… The poor dog!"

Their dad dies. Chil is like "Hm. Cool. Anyways he died doing smth he loved right so haha lemme drink myself into an early death bed too yolo 🔥🤟" vs "He died and it shattered my world and I must devote all my life to wiping death out of existence".

"I am going to knowingly shorten my lifestyle through unhealthy habits actually."

Problem solving approaches

One thing I love about them is how they have complete opposite approaches to problem solving. Besides striving for workers’ rights and job stability for halflings with an union, he’s very "laissez-faire". He won’t do the righteous thing just because it’s the right thing if he doesn’t have an incentive or a safety net, like going to save Falin. He doesn’t chase after his wife to talk it out and make amends, he gives her space and either hopes she’ll talk when she’s ready or figures that he shouldn’t try to do anything about it. He doesn’t mention the mimic he noticed to the others to not make a big deal out of it and hopefully it won’t come up again. He’s a "if the glass is half-full that’s fine enough for me, I don’t need things to be as good as they could be" type, a "leave it alone until it figures itself out" type.

Marcille? Marcille is idealistic and in-your-face. If there is an issue you better believe Marcille will address it and try her hardest to fix it, will talk it out and attempt to understand & strive to make things as best possible for everyone involved. She will FORCE you to talk about your FEELINGS wether you like it or NOT. Leaving it alone? Keeping things as just okay when they could be great instead? No no no no no, that’s not right, she’s going to try and fix it now. She will make you stand up and fight for the best that your life could be, to be honest when something bothers you and do something about it, will make you stop suppressing yourself because you’re scared of things getting worse.

Which, you know, both methods certainly have their pros and cons, but they’re very complimentary in that way. He grounds her into a more down to earth mindset and teaches by example that it’s okay if things don’t necessarily work out and moving on is possible and not necessarily miserable, while she encourages him to not give up so fast or stay quiet on things that bother so much. He soothes and she emboldens 🔥 Funny, because you could have thought it would’ve been the contrary, which is not untrue either, but he’s the "has experienced the harshness of life and has settled for something comfortable but modest" while she’s the "wants to make the world better and goes to great lengths to change it while still trying to find herself & uncomfortable with some aspects of life like loss".

One overly focuses on dealing with issues by changing things around her while the other overly focuses on only changing himself.

——

Chilchuck leaves things alone if he thinks they’re best left unaddressed or thinks they’ll work itself out. Like the mimic he didn’t tell the group about but it backfired later. Like how he didn’t chase after his wife or seemingly tried to contact her at all. Like how he prefers not to dig into people’s personal issues in parties and be left alone to deal with his stuff on his own as well.

Meanwhile Marcille is overbearingly in-your-face and loud and "if there’s a problem we’re dishing it out right here right now. Your wife left you?? And you didn’t try to get her back?? I am going to write out a script and a plan for you to apologize and please bring these piles of presents."

She’s secretive about her fair share of things as well but she’s very proactive. While she seeks to research something that’s a core motivation and life goal to her + save someone she deeply cares for Chil is there for his job and to get money and "hey if something happens I’ll have done my part. I took you guys here now you guys figure out the rest and fight the monsters or something". They both like to have a say in the strategy, Chilchuck moreso as time goes on, but Marcille involves herself much more into almost everything.

Espescially early on, they’re always sticking by each other judging Senshi & Laios together and being like "Am I seeing this shit right. They’re crazy right? Tell me I’m not the only one here with common sense" and forming a 🤝 relationship over it and considering that, it sometimes feel… Contradicting? How they also have a lot of conflict together over time about how different they truly are. But it’s interesting and nice to see how even though they do have arguments it always gets resolved pretty promptly, like they’re truly hashing it out as equals and then when that’s done they’re back to being on the same wavelength. The exception would be Marcille taking a long time to come around on Chil being old, but arguments and debates like the one on dark magic and if it’s okay or wrong to use it, which was pretty serious and not just banter? They came to find a middle ground or at least understanding, and it didn’t seem to lower the respect they hold for another afterwards.

Chilchuck’s repressing habit

I do think Chilchuck has a repressed thing where he doesn’t WANT to think about it about his feelings sometimes, like with his wife- and maybe with his father? But the way he was so casual and nonchalant about his father dying has always struck me. I’m not sure if this is a "my feelings on my father were mixed and complicated at best" thing or a "I just don’t want to spend time thinking about it" thing or something else, but it gives food for thought.

When it comes to alcohol there’s this saying where an alcoholic parent will have 2 kids and one will grow to be alcoholic too while the other will never even touch a drop of alcohol and both when asked why will say "I watched my father". Chilchuck is def the first I think. He gives the vibe of "An alcoholic parent puts a strain on familial relationships?? Pshh, my father was and look at me! I turned out great!" Which is something I’ve heard irl lol which always makes you go like 👀 yes indeed you’re perfectly well-adjusted and haven’t been affected by your father’s alcoholism at all it’s clear as day. On that topic, Chilchuck’s family, both currently and when he was a kid, are very interesting topics to theorize about with the hints and cues we have, how his wife truly felt and what happened for her to feel unappreciated enough to leave, how distant is he from his daughters if they haven’t seen each other in the same year either and Flertom was the only one to send him a letter? But that’s a topic for another day

Chilchuck probably has such a complex…. Of like not being… Like allowed to take space I guess? And he does wish to affirm that right, he takes space and asks for it so very overtly, he formed a half-foot guild to demand better working conditions as one of the biggest examples of that. He grew up poor and undermined but he knows that he’s capable and someone worthy of respect and demands it, and takes every opportunity to prove himself. But on the other end, he doesn’t seem to want to keep his hopes up in general, like asking for something to be better is bound to fail, that it’d be too good to be true. He tries to keep out of where his job doesn’t need him, from a sense of efficiency that cuts down on unnecessary stops but also because he just thinks it isn’t his place to do so. It strikes me that it’s hinted that like… He doesn’t even really consider the possibility of going to his wife and trying to mend the relationship. Like it’s either she’ll decide to take him back on her own or he’ll be left out in the cold waiting, never knowing just where he’s truly at with her and if things are over for good. Like… Shooting his shot and making his case doesn’t even register as an option? Like he’s not worth fighting for, like whatever he did wouldn’t change her opinion anyways?

He def has a "life isn’t like a fairytale where everything goes well" philosophy where sometimes it feels like he just gives up on how things maybe could be better, especially interpersonally. Maybe it’s why he focuses on simple joys like alcohol instead of trying to keep up with relationships which can be complex and very fickle, in his own words. Something like alcohol is predictable, always there to fall back on, safe, gives him sensations without other emotional/social risks attached. Ironic for someone whose job is all about risks, but understandable

He contradicts even himself… Bro yes you’re capable, yes you’re great, yes you matter, now maybe speak about your feelings maybe??? Or do you not think your emotional issues deserve to get fixed and have closure???? Are you so used to being dismissed, overlooked and undermined that you think no one will listen even if you speak up?? And this recontextualize his "I’m not even gonna try and talk this issue out because I know (assume) that it won’t solve anything anyways" approach, doesn’t it.

"I must break my party members’ stuff or lie to them because if I just tell them my opinion and my feelings that I don’t want them to die they won’t care anyways and keep going"

In a way everyone is the glue of the party in different ways, Laios giving the group a direction and a plan, Senshi keeping them fed and grounded, Marcille making everyone more social and encouraging bonds to form, and for Chilchuck he’s the one most focused on actually keeping everyone alive I think.

Conclusion

Idk I’m not gonna repeat every point but have this as a parting contrast:

Guy with shortest lifespan possible who doesn’t mind knowingly shortening his own with an unhealthy habit, here for a good time not a long time, VS girl with longest lifespan possible who wants to lengthen everyone’s life, who focuses on how long she can keep something or someone rather than how happy her time with it has made her already. They’re both loud in their own way, and both are still insecure despite appearances. In a way, both of them focus on taking care of others while overlooking their own demons.

[candlecordyceps]

Ok I’m taking the time to Yap now WARNING FOR ANIME SPOILERS IF YOU HAVENT WATCHED IT!!!

This is just my raw emotional reactions, opinions, and just general interpretations of the last few scenes in the episode.

Starting off, I’m beginning with Shuro confronting Laois for what he did. Shuro seems to be a very high-standing fellow from what I’ve been given so far (as an anime only currently- I will start reading the manga once it finishes releasing I promise). He has guards that are close to him, and I assume he’s rich, and knowing that he will DEFINITELY care a lot more about black magic and laws, because they effect him more due to his (assumed) status. He’s understandably terrified of what this means for Falin. And he confronts Laois by asking him,

“Do you know what you’ve done?” He tells him all the hell that he can go through for it, what FALIN will go through for it, Marcille will go through- but Laois knows.

He’s well aware of the consequences and he was willing to do it anyways. For Falin. For his sister. Because she was willing to risk her life for him and for everyone, everyone followed suit, and the desperation to do so was so powerful they were willing to do what it took. And Laois ALSO knows, that despite what Shuro is doing right now,

He would’ve done the same. Shuro won’t kill him, because he knows he would’ve done anything too. Laois doesn’t GET people. He thought he could trust Shuro to be quiet. At this point it’s pretty obvious to me, especially in the episode with him being clingy and friendly with Shuro, calling him the one of the “only ones to call him a friend”, despite Shuro’s very obvious uncomfortable-disturbed-annoyed attitude toward Laois and general unwellness being unnoticed (until told specifically of it, to which Laois immediately got onto Shuro about his health). Yet, he knows Shuro would’ve done anything too.

Shuro stays his sword, Laois wishes for understanding, Kabru gets a drama boner (I find it funny how into it he is), and the scene changes. And FUCK man.

Laois loves Falin so much, and he knows how much Shuro cares. He cared enough to return. He told him everything because he needs the help, and he’s banking on the care for Falin to be enough to work with him to return her to safety. I’m SOOOO hoping he does help. That he breaks down and the sword falls from Laois’s neck. That even though it goes against a law so potent it could get everyone involved into extremely deep trouble, the bonds he’s made are enough. I don’t know Shuro well enough at all. Lord knows if he’ll even keep it to himself if they get out of the dungeon. But GOD am I not thrilled to figure out more. AND NOW, to the scene that made me scream from my seat multiple times,

Faliiiiiinnnnnnnnn GHHHHHOOOODDDD. When I tell you I GASPED. Watching the hands that we had witnessed painstakingly put together. The hands That two people took the care into fixing and making sure each was in the perfect place- scraping against the floor. Bloody around the sleeves, clawing forward- on a mission for someone she doesn’t actually know. Her mind is warped by the mission of the mage. Put back together just to bleed and be reshaped and melded to something scary and unknown and new-

AND ITS TERRIFYING. LOOK AT HER. JESUS CHRRRIIIIIIIST. Someone so loved and someone they all want to protect is RIGHT THERE, but she’s almost unrecognizable beyond her face, and mentally she’s so incredibly far away.

I can’t imagine the distress in everyone as they realize that they have to fight the exact person they’ve been fighting for. Because there’s no way she is peaceful and there is no way she’ll just “be Falin” without some extreme inbetweens. There’s no way that the mage doesn’t return if/when they succeed. I’m SOO excited to witness them figure it out and try to save her once more.

IF YOU MADE IT HERE THANKS FOR READING ME YAPPING!! This is mainly a little storage for me later when I wanna revisit and figure out what I thought before I knew what happened. Have a nice day/night readers!

[monstrouslydelicious]

one more bit of At Least Out Loud, this time after the living armor discovery

Just rescue Falin and get back to the surface. Rescue Falin, get back to the surface, and you can go your separate ways. No one ever has to know about this, Chilchuck thought, gritting his teeth to keep a dumb grin from spreading across his face. Laios was being absurdly attractive again and it wasn't fair. His excitement over discovering living armor was actually living shouldn't be as cute as it was.

“You see that? How when he talks about monsters he gets crazy eyes? It creeps me out,” Chilchuck muttered to Marcille instead. This wasn’t the first time he’d had to suppress unwise emotions around Laios, so he was well practiced in saying the exact opposite of how he felt.

Although it’s never been quite this hard before - he is stupidly adorable like this.

So adorable, in fact, that Chilchuck almost missed Laios asking Senshi about eating the slimy little armor creatures. He would have missed it if not for Marcille’s screech of protest and yank on his arm to drag the armor he was holding toward Laios’ face. At that point, his own self-preservation instincts drowned out any lingering thoughts of Laios’ appeal, and he joined her in yelling about not eating something they knew virtually nothing about.

But then Senshi agreed to try cooking them, and Chilchuck sighed. They might as well just drop it. There was no stopping those two now, and Marcille’s continued objections seemed like a waste of energy. Even when she suggested the living armor might be poisonous, Laios’ confidence that anything that poisonous wouldn’t need to hide itself seemed logical enough. And he’s not usually wrong when it comes to monsters, Chilchuck thought begrudgingly, I guess I’ll just eat whatever seems the least disgusting - after he tries it first, of course.

While the other three picked apart the pieces of armor, Chilchuck got a fire started, then sat back and watched as Senshi decided different ways to cook the creatures. They are starting to smell really good, he admitted to himself, feeling his stomach rumble at the enticing aroma of the cooking mollusks.

But Chilchuck Tims was nothing if not a half-foot of conviction, so when Senshi declared everything finished, he narrowed his eyes at Laios and insisted he try it first. The other two agreed and waited to see what would happen. Chilchuck could feel a little worry gnawing at his heart. Instead of acknowledging that, even to himself, he muttered, “We leave his corpse if he dies, okay?”

And yet, when Laios dropped the piece of armor-shell he was holding, Chilchuck had a moment of intense terror. Was it actually poisonous? What if he dies - Marcille isn’t good at resurrection magic, that was always Falin’s job. No, no -

Laios’ shouting about how delicious it was shook those thoughts from his head and he nearly sagged with relief.

Then Senshi was trying his portion and suddenly, Laios was asking him and Marcille how theirs tasted. Taking a tentative bite, Chilchuck chewed thoughtfully. Laios is right, this is pretty tasty. Not that he was going to actually acknowledge that when Marcille asked, downplaying his opinion. No sense letting this go to his head.

Later, as they cleaned and packed up, Senshi remarked, “In all my years of eating monsters in this here dungeon, I never would have dreamed I’d eat critters like those.”

“I doubt anyone dreamed Living Armor was a type of shellfish, a weird type born from an egg case,” Chilchuck answered, knowing full well he was leaving an opening for Laios to start rambling again - and doing it anyway.

The tall-man didn’t disappoint and he started thinking through the life cycle of Living Armor out loud. Oh, he’s getting a little weird with it again, Chilchuck thought as Laios excitedly theorized that armor holding hands might actually be a mating ritual for the creatures. And yet, he couldn’t deny the dreamy, besotted look he was actively attempting to resist.

[chuckeroo777]

Dungeon Meshi Volume 12 Part 2

Things keep getting hairier! And slimier. Let's see what happens next!

Gold star for effort guys.

But, a paratenic host is one in which the parasite doesn't actually do anything. But in this analogy, it's the only one you actually parasitised.

Tags: Feral Pred, Willing to Unwilling prey, Full Tour, Non-Fatal

Well well well, if it isn't the consequences of my actions.

Also, did the Lion already eat her hair desires, or is she just too flustered currently to bother?

See? Chilchuck said Dwarves live 2.5 times longer than Tall-men. If their average is 200, that makes Tall-men's 80. Kinda makes the Half-foot thing kinda pointless if it's only a 17% difference from Tall-men.

Uh, okay? Why? In the demon backstory chapter, it's suggested that wishes caused the changes in lifespan, but how did they do that without enveloping the world like Marcille wants to do? I

According to the adventurer's bible, Tall-men can produce fertile offspring with Ogres or Half-foots. Do these hybrids have longer lifespans? Wait, she specifies long-lived, so I guess not?

Izutsumi knows bullshit when she hears it. Seriously though, the lion continues to spit smoke. We know exactly what the lion will do once it escapes. It's not using half truths, it's just straight up lying that it wants to help Marcille with her goal.

An important image.

Yes Izutsumi. That's generally how it works. You'd know if you actually knew your parents.

The plot thickens.

Ooh, is Chilchuck making lasagna?

Laios gets real handsy when the monster is passive. Actually, since doppelgangers rely mainly on chromatic illusions, shouldn't it feel off? Maybe they supplement it with actual illusion magic.

If I remember correctly, she really liked the dryad pottage. She even has Dryads as a major portion of the army she's raising. I also spotted some elephants in the wide shot. Do those ever show up later?

A precious image.

Geez Marcille, at least stir in some butter and garlic salt.

Also, rare footage of Marcille not wearing that stupid choker.

Marcille. This is a sad scene. Stop making me laugh during your trauma.

There is something deeply funny about Izutsumi being the most worldly of these idiots. I mean, it makes sense. Senshi spent most of his life on the island, Laios is young and doesn't pay attention, and Chilchuck has always lived in urban areas. Meanwhile, Izutsumi has been shunted from owner to owner her whole life.

When you roll an abject failure, but the DM wants to move things along anyway.

Wouldn't you be hungry if this was the first non-monster food you had eaten in weeks?

I love the silly shit this manga pulls sometimes. Everyone literally just refers to it as "the island".

Agreed, it's very silly. But more importantly, what kind of magic nonsense allows a three-way meeting between a fairy, a crystal ball, and a telephone?

Actually, the dungeon is acting more like a slime right now, attempting to flip its digestive system to envelop external prey.

Lots of short chapters this volume, but the density is high! We might end up with four posts on this one! See you in a bit!

[britcision]

I LIVE

Which. Is ironic. Considering our topic today 😅

I did say I was gonna do more with our actual main characters in the show eventually, so here’s a little bit of that 😁

I’m just saying, with Marcille’s track record it’s fucking bold of her to assume she’ll make it to 1000

——————

After Dinner Mints - Lifespans

Marcille thought she was handling everything pretty well, considering. She’d been within spitting distance of achieving her life’s dream. She’d finally learned the truth about ancient magic.

She’d nearly killed everyone in the world, or trapped them in an endless prison where they could never move or feel again.

In the end, she’d made the choice to abandon her dream and stop the demon. If she was honest with herself, it had less to do with the way the demon had been manipulating her or honestly anything it had done at all; it was a lot more to do with the journey she’d been on with her friends. With Senshi.

Because at the beginning, sure, she’d been worried about fighting the dragon, but she’d never doubted they’d get Falin back. Her death was just a temporary measure, no matter what, because she wouldn’t let Falin be gone forever.

But… that was literally just what Thistle had wanted. And looking at everything he’d done, and what they now knew about the demon… Marcille knew she would have been just as bad, or worse. Knew how narrowly she’d escaped exactly the same fate; and she couldn’t help but be reminded every time she saw Yaad.

It wasn’t like she wanted to be thanked for deciding not to end the world. It’d just be nice if people could occasionally appreciate what she’d given up for it.

It had been hard, and she’d had to acknowledge she was wrong, which she was damn sure most of the Canary wardens weren’t physically able to do. Nor much of anyone else that she’d met.

She was keeping those thoughts to herself, along with the knowledge of what accepting that she couldn’t fix the world was going to cost her. After all, she’d have decades, centuries yet to think all about that and wonder if she’d made the right decision, if she couldn’t have controlled the demon after all.

She couldn’t have. She’d have had no chance. But it was already eating at her in the dead of night, and it hadn’t even been a week.

She wasn’t going to waste time on it though. Not when the time she still had with some of her friends was so limited.

It’d just be nice if they were even slightly sensitive about that, too.

“C’mon, Chilchuck, you don’t need to go back to Kahka Brud,” she “teased” again, slumping into her folded arms on the table in front of her, “you can just live in the golden city with us! The king’s own locksmith!”

At the end of the table Laios perked up, despite his exhaustion from another long day of hauling meat and cooking.

Chilchuck folded his arms stubbornly and ignored the pair of them.

“All three of my girls are in Kahka Brud, and all my stuff! I was never planning on staying on the Island anyway, and you wanted to meet them all so bad, it’s not like it’s that far to visit,” he added slyly, a smirk tugging at his lips as he shot her a sidelong look.

Which. Was not fair.

Marcille absolutely did want to meet all three of his daughters, and his wife! The sooner the better! It just… could be here.

“They can move here too! We could help them all pick out houses, or where to build more half-foot sized ones, right Laios? It’s gotta be better to live where you’re personal friends with the ruler, right?” She wheedled, giving her best puppy eyes back.

Laios nodded eagerly, fingers playing nervously along the edge of the table.

“Yeah! You said Meijack’s a locksmith too, you could set up shop together! And I’m sure Fleurtom could find a nice dwarf-”

All levity suddenly leaving his face, Chilchuck slammed both hands on the table.

“And that’s exactly why they’re not coming! I’m not having two of my girls chasing around after Senshi giving him googoo eyes!” He snapped loudly, startling the man himself from where he’d been writing in his journal.

“What’s that?” He asked almost absent mindedly.

Chilchuck and Marcille both ignored him, Marcille tossing her hands into the air.

“Kahka Brud’s a dwarf city anyway! There’s got to be way more dwarves there, at least here it’s dwarves you’ve had a chance to get to know!”

“I got to know some of the ones in Kahka Brud anyway! I live there, all the time except when I was working the dungeon, which is gone now! I can’t ask them all to uproot their lives at the drop of a hat!”

“There’s literally never going to be a better time!” It was Marcille’s turn to slam her hands onto the table, surging to her feet too. “We need locksmiths! Half the houses in the risen city are still locked up!”

Chilchuck narrowed his eyes.

“Not all half-foots are locksmiths!”

“MEIJACK is, you told us to hire her if you died!”

“And I’m not fucking dead, am I!”

Senshi and Laios backed slowly away from the table. And went ignored.

Marcille sucked in a sharp breath, the words slamming into the well of fear in her chest. Chilchuck either didn’t notice or didn’t care, pointing an accusatory finger at her.

“And nothing’s stopping you from hiring me! Or hell, coming to visit! You wanted to meet them so bad, Kahka Brud’s not that far away, so why should we be the ones to move!”

Clearly against his better judgement, Laios re approached the table with both hands raised as if to ward off an attack.

“Chilchuck… I dunno how safe it’ll be for Marcille to… y’know, leave…” he said hesitantly, eyes darting between them in case either went for his throat.

To her abject fury, Marcille felt tears welling in her eyes. She didn’t want to cry, she wanted to be angry! He was just being a stubborn asshole for no reason!

But.

Yet.

He wasn’t dead yet.

Scrubbing at her eyes angrily, she did her best to glower at him.

“I can’t leave! You were so scared of the western elves, the only reason they’re not taking me with them when they leave is for Laios! That won’t matter in another few decades maybe, but I can’t wait that long! Because even when you’re a dick, I still want to spend time with you!”

Before you do die.

She couldn’t face the words, but they hung in the air in the silence anyway.

Laios quietly retreated. Senshi disappeared, probably in the direction of a kitchen. Chilchuck’s eyes widened briefly, and he sank back in his chair.

Marcille tried to catch her breath, pushing her hair back off her face. He hadn’t braided it for her today, and she hadn’t been able to work up the will to do it herself. Why couldn’t he just see he was needed here…

Pulling his mug back across the table towards him, Chilchuck took a large gulp and snorted.

“Bold of you to assume you’ll live another decade.”

Marcille. Blinked. Utterly dumbfounded. Had he forgotten somehow?

“Wh…. Chilchuck I’m going to live another nine hundred years?” She even sounded hollow and uncertain.

Chilchuck raised an eyebrow at her, gesturing with his mug.

“No, half-elves can live more than nine hundred years. You are a fucking disaster who got killed by a slime the second you left magic school, and now the immortality spell is gone. The next time any of us fuck up is for keeps, so I’m pretty sure I’ll outlive you,” he said smugly, finishing his beer.

Indignation rose to fill the space shock had emptied.

“What! Hey, you died in the dungeon as much as I did!”

Not that they’d ever actually compared death counts (who kept track of things like that?) but she was pretty damn sure he had. Dying hadn’t exactly been a regular occurence with the Toudens, but it wasn’t unheard of either. They’d both been under Falin’s resurrection more than once.

And he’d been working dungeons for years before she ever showed up! So really, he’d probably died more.

“Not ten minutes into my first day I didn’t,” Chilchuck snickered, pointing at her with the hand holding his tankard, “and I only ever died of things that only happen in dungeons, like mimics and traps. That’s not gonna be hard to avoid on the surface. You’re gonna have a much harder time avoiding your own clumsy ass.”

Especially not if he stayed in Melini, where the monsters wouldn’t go, but Marcille was much too indignant to think of that now.

Mouth opening and closing a few times, Marcille huffed and drew herself up, folding her arms. She couldn’t actually refute the whole “dying on the first day” thing, so there wasn’t much point trying.

(It wasn’t like it was her fault the Toudens had been too busy whispering to notice the slime.)

“It’s not like there’s an overabundance of slimes up here either!” She snapped, both hands on the table. “You’re more likely to be lock picking some trap for some obnoxious lord than I am to find another slime!”

“You’re more likely to do some dumbass magic and blow yourself up in a closed room than I am to find a trap I can’t handle,” Chilchuck shot back, looking entirely too pleased with himself.

Heat building in the tips of her ears, Marcille did her best to ignore it and glared at him.

“I’m not going to need any explosive spells! There’s no monsters to fight!”

“I said blow yourself up, not use explosive spells,” Chilchuck said dismissively, waving a hand, “you’re way too into all that weird magical experimenting, and it’s not like you’ll remember to take care of yourself anyway. Senshi and I will get back to our lives and in a week you’ll have forgotten you need food and be wasting away in a tower.”

“Hey! I can take care of myself!”

“You probably couldn’t make a sandwich.”

“I can cook for myself just fine!”

“You’re gonna confuse one of your weird dark magic potions for a sauce and be dead in a week.”

“That was SENSHI! And it wasn’t a dark magic potion, it was a changeling ointment!”

“Yeah, and when you do it it’ll be a weird dark magic potion. And you’ll turn yourself into a mushroom or something.”

“I’m not even doing the ancient magic anymore! And I’m not gonna turn into a mushroom! No one turns themselves into a mushroom!”

“And how many people accidentally turn dragons into chimeras?”

Breathing heavily, Marcille clenched her fists and forced herself not to cry. Or scream. They were finally, finally so close to fixing that stupid mistake, and it hadn’t even been her who’d made it.

If Thistle hadn’t revived the dragon… but no, that didn’t matter.

She’d known Chilchuck wasn’t comfortable with what she’d done. He’d never been shy about it. Although apparently he’d also been holding more back than she’d thought. And none of that mattered, because she didn’t want to waste what little time they might have left on pointless fighting.

“If I’m that much of a disaster, that’s only more of a reason for you to move closer! Any of us could die tomorrow!” She huffed, dropping gracelessly back into her seat.

Somehow, the words didn’t hurt as much when she was annoyed. Didn’t feel as imminent, as real.

Chilchuck snickered and poured himself another beer.

“You could. I actually know how to take care of myself. And you guys don’t pay me enough to babysit.”

Marcille spluttered indignantly, unable to even find the words. Laios cautiously approached the table again, but didn’t retake his seat. He still looked skittish and uncertain, lost as ever when the subject wasn’t monsters.

“Still, Chilchuck… there’ll always be a place for you here. For you, and your daughters, and your wife if you ever want it? Wasn’t Marcille going to help you try and work things out with your wife anyway?” He asked hopefully, giving Marcille the puppy eyes that looked way too much like Falin’s.

She had no chance against those eyes, but luckily in this case he was on her side. Chilchuck faltered, and she shot him a triumphant grin.

“Yeah! It’s gonna take forever if we have to write letters back and forth,” she agreed smugly… although the idea of the story playing out over a long series of letters was appealing too.

It’d be like having her own private romantic serial.

Unless Chilchuck and his wife both moved to Melini, and then she could watch it in real time, and that’d be even better! Or if Chilchuck moved in, and they both wrote to his wife together…

Senshi reappeared, carrying a tray of steaming mugs that smelled of cinnamon, pausing for just a moment in the door before approaching the table. All three men gradually relaxed as Marcille visibly brightened up, as she always did with the prospect of family drama or a slow romance.

Or not rehashing the death of everyone she’d ever met. Or would meet, for another five hundred years.

Senshi distributed the mugs, gently taking Chilchuck’s beer and only getting a mildly disgruntled look as he switched it out for hot milk. The half-foot took a sip of the new drink anyway, humming happily as he tasted the whiskey.

Marcille played with hers, turning the mug slowly in her hands as she mused over all the possibilities. Then she snapped back, shooting Chilchuck a hopeful smile.

“You know… being the royal locksmith would be the kind of position that might really impress her,” she suggested, heart in her throat.

A reluctant pink tinged Chilchuck’s cheeks.

“She doesn’t care about things like that,” he grumbled, looking into the foam on the milk. Just a little too sullen when combined with that blush.

Marcille squirmed in delight. “Just coworkers” or not, she knew him far too well to miss excuses.

“Oh, but we’ll have to get you fitting clothes! Something very well tailored, with fine fabrics, since you’re on the king’s payroll. What’s her favourite colour?” She asked eagerly, clasping both hands over her heart.

Clearly about to protest again, the last question wrong-footed Chilchuck completely.

“What? Why?” He asked cautiously.

Marcille rolled her eyes.

“Because you need to wrap her present in something, and oh! You’ll have to tell me her favourite flowers, and jewellery, and…”

The possibilities spilled out in front of her, far more infinite than the unknown spans of time that might be left to any of them.

True, to an elf (or a half-elf), they’d see so many years that they almost lost meaning. But she had the same twenty-four hours in a day, every day, and if the dungeon had taught her anything it was that those hours could be as long or short as she made them.

Really, even a thousand years probably wouldn’t be long enough for her to run out of romantic strategies to help Chilchuck win his wife back. They’d have to get down to some serious planning really soon, maybe even before the feast…

Actually, there was one obvious place to start.

Beginning to relax into his drink, Chilchuck twitched when her attention snapped back to him.

“Hey Chilchuck… what’s your wife’s name?”

————————

Finally we’re back to short and sweet 😁 and this one has been living rent free in my head for a while

Aaaaaand spawned another terrible little snippet with my most beloved Mithrun that I hope to be sharing with you soon because the only thing making the Marcille-disaster worst is hanging out with Mithrun 😇

Dungeon Lord Besties

And link to my AO3:

[sunlitmiracle]

smashes my current interest together with my old interest (aka yet another "what Dungeon Meshi but Gamers?" AU)

Once when I was a child I had a complete crying meltdown over Creatures, because the manual insisted that the complicated AI of the Norns made them truly alive and 10-year-old me was freaked out at the idea of being solely responsible for making sure these real animals wouldn't die. The funny part was that this was the Playstation version of Creatures, which has no biochemistry and very basic AI compared to the PC/Mac games where players actually were debating whether or not it was true artificial life. A PSX manual gave me existential dread and it wasn't even telling the truth.

Anyway, kid!Marcille would also have a meltdown over the Creatures series, especially if she had the computer games and got to see how vastly different some breeds' lifespans are. Like in C2 where you have Norns that live for around 5 hours and Norns that live for 10, both of which are vastly more than Ettins who don't even live for 1.5 hours (and usually less due to radiation or starvation).

Lucky for her, having the computer version means she could download modified genomes made by other players that make creatures live longer or even outright remove certain death triggers. However I think she'd have more fun learning to read and edit the genomes herself, to get a better understanding of how the game works and how to change it to suit her own tastes. And because she could pretend she's one of the mysterious ancient Shee who created the Norns, Grendels, and Ettins and then vanished, leaving behind relics of their old society.

(Speaking of Grendels, she would unfortunately dislike them because they're the Designated Evil Species and she'd hate how they harass and attack her Norns. I think she'd also pity them though, because they get sick a lot and have short lifespans. Likely she'd just end up downloading/creating a genome without the aggression towards Norns. Ettins she'd like except for in C3 when they dismantle her meticulously-placed gadget setups, so she might mod out their hoarding compulsions too. Both of them would of course also live for however long her Norns would live.)

Also. While standard creatures' lifespans are counted in hours, if you modify the half-lives in the genome editor you can increase it to centuries. Or even just over a millennium if you set the half-lives to their max length (assuming you also leave the old age death trigger at its vanilla value).

and I like to think that elven Creatures players would pass around copies of what they consider a template genome that's appropriate to their own lifespans. Something that would make their creatures live for weeks or months of continuous play. I also like to think the Creatures DS Warp is still active in this AU because of the hilarious frustration when these long-lived Norns travel to worlds run by short-lived players whose Norns have vanilla lifespans, and vice versa.

(Most of the time in Creatures, offspring of parents with different lifespans will just have one or the other, but there's a chance the genes cross over right in the middle of the various age triggers and cause unstable aging rates. Like a Norn that goes through the childhood stages in hours but then has a very extended adulthood. Or a days-long childhood followed by suddenly dropping dead of old age once the vanilla adulthood genes kick in. Or, if the child has one parent's half-life decay rate and the other parent's age triggers, all sorts of odd things could happen. I once had hybrid Norns who lived for 20 hours and would die of organ failure before reaching the old age threshold!)

(Now that I think of it, Marcille would absolutely hate fast-agers. The first time she watches a creature hatch, turn old, and die in just one brief minute of life, she would be sobbing for days. One of the first things she'd learn to mod out would be mutations that cause the Ageing/Life chemical to decrease unusually fast.)

On a lighter note, while I don't know what her favorite designs would be I think she'd love choosing cute breeds to use in her world. Once she figured out how to give her creatures the comfortable life she wants them to have I can see her redirecting all her gene-editing efforts into changing color expressions. She might even learn to sprite or model her own custom designs.

[thebest-medicine]

how many summer sentence starters do you have left?

Hi! Thanks for asking! I ran out of finished ones in my queue here (gearing up for a new year at my job so I’ve been busy) so I’ll have to finish off the rest of these some time soon! Looks like I have 26 left!

Here’s the prompts I have still (feel free to send more):

Hi! I was wondering if you might do 86 for a lee!scanlan pretty please? I don't mind about the ler! Pike or Vax might be good but just do whatever you feel! Thank you I love him your honour

“Crap. Wait. I didn’t mean that.”

Make 24. With Lee! Deku and Ler! Kirishima?

“Sounds like someone needs a visit from the tickle monster.”

hiii! how about 59 for bakugous revenge on kiri >:3

“Why so nervous?”

67 for bakugou and sero???

“Well now, that seems like wishful thinking.”

Could I mabye get 40 with lee!bakugo and ler!kirishima? Mabye bakugo saying he doesn't like his laugh and stuff, I think it'd be cute :3 (love your acc and ur fics btw, you're doing amazing <3)

“I’ve never heard you laugh like that before, it’s nice.”

“You think you’re real tough, huh?” - for lee Clark Kent and Ler Lois or Jimmy mayhaps? 🙏

“You think you’re real tough, huh?”

Could I get 43 with lee!bakugo and ler!kirishima? I think it would be so cute 😭❤️ /nf x

“Lighten up, have a laugh!”

63, lers korra and Asami, lee!mako?

“Too bad there’s nothing you can do about it.”

Number 23 with lee Todoroki and ler Midoriya 😍☺️😍 ?

“Wait a minute, you’re not ticklish, are you?”

“You wouldn’t take advantage (of that knowledge) when I’m stuck like this, right? …Right?!” Lee! Eda Ler!Raine?

“You wouldn’t take advantage of that while I’m stuck like this..right? Right?!”

42, ler!Miss Martian, Lee!robin?

“No way, are you crying / begging?”

96, ler!korra, lee!mako?

“What are you so scared of? It’s just a brush!”

64, ler!beast boy, lee!robin pleaseeee

“Relax, I’m not gonna kill ya. But I am gonna make you wish you were dead.”

I love the idea of Lars being super ticklish and the Offcolors never knowing about tickling before they meet him and now he’s forced to explain it because they accidentally tickle him. 💖 I’d love “Why are you so nervous all of the sudden?” with lee Lars and maybe ler or lers Padparadscha and The Rutile Twins. Of course take all the time you need and again congrats! 💖

“Why are you so nervous all of the sudden?”

36 with lee shego and ler kim please, the “little birdie” could be one of her brothers

“A little birdie told me someone has ticklish feet.”

idk if you’ve seen the mcu What if? Show. Doesn’t matter. But #18 for the thunder siblings (What if? Or Movie incarnations), Loki, Thor and Helga, in whichever ler and Lee positions you want.

“I swear on my life, I will kill you.”

could you do 24 “Sounds like someone needs a visit from the tickle monster.” with lee!dipper with ler!stan. maybe have it be set after the zombies attacked the shack and dipper is upset about it and stan is trying to cheer him up?

“Sounds like somebody needs a visit from the ol’ tickle monster!”

Pretty pretty please could we get 8 with Laios, Chilchuk & Marcille? (I’d LOVE it if it backfired for Laios)

“I’ll have you know, I was the reigning tickle fight champion in my house growing up.”

can u do a KP drabble of #8 with ler!Shego and lee!DrD? Thx sooo much (:

“I’ll have you know, I was the reigning tickle fight champion in my house growing up.”

#84 You’d better give up now or this is about to get a lot worse for ler!Sango and Lee!Miroku from Inuyasha please, if you have time?

“You’d better give up now, or this is about to get a lot worse!”

#27 for TOH blight sibs tickle fight if you’re not too overwhelmed with prompts.

“I hope you know this means war.”

yay! I’m so glad you’re doing drabbles. I’ve always lurked but now the sentence starters are here I hope you don’t mind if I send more than a few asks. If it’s too much, just delete. Anyway, love your writing. #103- Let’s make it interesting” for the whole S1 YJ team particularly Robin, and Zatanna. Thanks again! Can’t wait for more of your works.

“Let’s make it interesting.”

Ooo I haven't heard of Danny Phantom in YEARS maybe for the sentence starter could we get 11. “Why are you so nervous all of the sudden?” with lee!Danny and ler!Valerie?

"Why are you so nervous all of the sudden?"

I saw you qrite for Danny Phantom and I was like :o so for the sentence starters number 19 "Wait, are you stuck?" with lee!Danny? I imagine he got stuck a lot while figuring out his intagibility.

“Wait…are you stuck?”

ahhh awesome!! how abt 61 with lee!shauna ler!jackie ?? tysm!!!

“You’d better keep quiet!”

[bi-hop]

faliiiiinnnnnnnn

Falin!

How I feel about this character: it's actually kinda funny upon further reflection that she's one of my favorite characters. because I reread dungeon meshi a lot (just random chapters) to try and absorb the dialogue and she's barely present? Obviously, she haunts the text, and chimera!Falin shows up pretty regularly, but her herself? barely there! mostly post-canon! she rocks though to be clear.

I think what I like most about her is how the person viewing her subtly shapes what we expect from her. I remember being somewhat surprised she was so cordial with her parents still, as Marcille was, because even though Laios acknowledged the possibility of her not being as strongly affected by their upbringing, I didn't actually believe that would be the case. I enjoy that all of her loved ones have these lens on that mean you do get to see Falin, but almost always through these curtains of bias first. I don't know what it means for me that part of why I like her is because of getting to peel back that curtain every so often. LMAO

All the people I ship romantically with this character: Farcille, for starters, which I won't dwell on. basically everyone loves it. LET'S TALK OTHER STUFF!!!!

if I had a nickel for every time I wrote Asivia falling for a lady despite being at Laios' court in post-canon presumably to 'try again', I'd have two nickels. this is becoming a funny trend. anyway won't mention the other fic but I have this general idea for Asivia having an interest in dragoness Falin that no one really picks up on because I like mess. I still don't really know if I want the interest to be reciprocated or not. but I think Asivia is neat. I support women trying to get money out of guys, even if said guy is my fave. enough about Laios though. in terms of attraction, I think it's mostly a matter of beauty and power as the starting point. that might sound not genuine, but I think the draw of the power part of Falin is a fascination with the freedom she now represents and embodies. I dunno though, I've basically invented Asivia in my head.

there's also Rin, which I can only express this way

no one sees my vision though

My non-romantic OTP for this character: Laios (I wish good big brothers were real) of course. Marcille also. I think those are the main ones. That isn't to diminish her bond with any other character, just OTP is a big weighty term to me and those are the dynamics I've dwelled on the most. I should change that though bc Chilchuck calling her strange (if I recall right) in his relationship map (or hers?) was funny to me. you did all that for a girl you think is weird? aight, grump grump

My unpopular opinion about this character: she should have killed more people actually-

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon: my dream... my sole dream... is a random ass bonus thing that's 'Falin's traveling journal' a la Senshi's journal and we get to see countries in the dungeon meshi world that weren't named and life is good. life is so good. my final message. gootbye

[nonbinarytoast]

Honestly I’m just gonna put a basic understanding of Dungeon Meshi below the cut for anyone not interested in watching it but what’s to read this (do not read if you are planning to watch, this will have spoilers)

Dungeon Meshi is kind of like D&D in the sense that they’re going through a multi layer dungeon the whole time. There’s all the typical fantasy races like dwarves, elves, half-foot, all that stuff. They call humans Tall-Mans also.

Below is a list of the characters you need to know, their races, their abilities, and a fun fact.

Laois — Tall-man, can use sword, and is INCREDIBLY autistic coded.

Marcille — elf (half-elf?), user of black magic (plus fire), also very lesbian.

Falin — Tall-man, user of not black magic, Marcille’s lesbian girlfriend and Laios’s sister.

Senshi — dwarf, he makes food (he can fight the food), has been living in the dungeon since before it was officially discovered.

Izutsumi — beast-man (cat girl), nimble and quick with sharp claws, hates everyone

Chilichuck — Half-foot, is tiny so can easily check for traps, has reassured the party many times that despite his height of 3’7 he is 29.

Thistle — elf, user of all magics (including black) (mostly black), most likely has a really good bromance with Delgal

Delgal — Tall-man, leadership skills I guess, former king of the golden country who’s been dead for I don’t know how many years (thistle is in denial) (also he’s just insane)

Lore you need to know:

Falin was eaten by a red dragon before the story begins. The reason they (Laois, Marcille, Chilchuck) went back into the dungeon was so that they could resurrect her and get her back. They had to go as soon as possible because they could only resurrect her before she got digested, and because of this, didn’t have enough food or supplies for the journey.

That’s when they met Senshi, who started cooking monsters for them and letting them feed off the dungeon, forgoing any cost or debts that they might have had to have.

When they get to the red dragon, they realize that Falin has already been digested because of the dragons strange activity and constant motion. This causes Marcille to reveal her secret, that she uses black magic, which is highly forbidden for what it can do.

The group assembles the only thing left of Falin, her bones, and Marcille does a black magic ritual that brings her back to life. The problem with this is that the ritual Marcille used intertwined Falin and the red dragons souls, making it so she still had some of the red dragon instinct in her. And some of that instinct was to follow Thistle.

Thistle has been looking for his childhood friend, king Delgal, for hundreds of years now. He had sent the red dragon to go out and find him. And Falin now has to answer that order. Thistle transforms Falin into a beast of feathers and scales and sends her off, once again, to find Delgal.

With Falin gone again and the groups moral low, they start to trudge back upwards until they run into an old friend, and eventually, a new one. This old friend, Shuro, has an attendant named Izutsumi, who thinks that maybe Laois’s party can help cure her curse.

Izutsumi has been cursed into being a beast man, meaning she’s part cat. She used to be a human, and she longs to be normal again instead of some house pet, but the curse binding her is tight, and they can’t get it off. She stays with them anyway because she thinks Thistle, (the mad mage, as most people call him) might be able to break her curse. Also, she’s starting to like them.

They meet a couple people, get a couple clues, and keep going to try and defeat Thistle and get Falin back. All with a delicious meal every day! (Thank you Senshi) (we love you Senshi)

Thats all that’s on Netflix and I haven’t read the manga so we’re starting right there and I hope I don’t commit a crime against canon.

If once I finished Dungeon Meshi I wrote a malevolent crossover…….

The probability that people would read it is pretty low………..

BUT THAT DOESNT MATTER BECAUSE ARTHUR WILL EAT FOOD!!!!