#anti-disney sw fandom

[the-far-bright-center]

Ever since the Kenobi show came out the entire SW fandom now seems to think Obi-Wan Kenobi is the main character of Star Wars. Not Anakin, not the Skywalkers. Obi-Wan. Just because Disney made a big-budget fanfic about him. 🤦🏽‍♀️

[skysgalaxy]

So how can you call yourself a SW fan if you don't know who blew up the death star and gets it confused with Darth Vader doing it 🤨

[kylo-wrecked]

i will get around to it but the notion that i simply MUST watch andor because it's the most anti-fascist piece of media to ever anti-fascist... i 😃

[the-far-bright-center]

People in the notes seem to be confused and interpreting this as somehow being negative about canon (??), which is ridiculous and missing the point because this line is from the RotS novelization which was written 100% in support of the Lucas-era canon. It's appreciating the aching beauty and of the tragedy that is the Prequels, particularly in the sense that our knowledge as the audience is informed by 'already knowing the ending' due to our prior familiarity with the Original Trilogy. The 'story' that is 'already over' refers to the six-film Lucas saga which was completed in 2005. So I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that this is about anything other than the REAL Skywalker saga. This was written solely in reference to the Prequels and the Original Trilogy. The Disney stuff did NOT exist in 2005 and was never meant to be included in this statement. So, if you have a problem with Disney's version of events, then certainly, please override or ignore their shitty fake-canon all you want, but this quote isn't about Disney's Star Wars and I'm so incredibly tired of fandom just assuming that it is. However much Disney wants you to think otherwise, 'Star Wars' doesn't just magically emanate into existence on its own as part of the same continuous 'canon'. There is the Lucas saga, and then there is the big budget fanfiction that is produced by Disney. These are absolutely not the same thing. Disney's content may reference the saga whenever it's convenient to them, but it also eagerly ignores, discards, or even destroys the saga at its whim as well. By doing so, Disney also ironically ignores everything this quote stands for. So, no, Disney's faux-canon has no place here. The story that 'cannot be changed' is the PT x OT saga. Because it's literally the only part of the story that existed when this quote was written.

[autistic-ben-tennyson]

Steven Universe: A Complicated Relationship

I’m starting to fall out of love with this show. I used to be obsessed with it and it was important to me as a way of figuring out my gender and sexuality. Yet, my relationship to it has become more complicated as of late. I’ve defended it myself and have been passionate about it, yet seeing the way a lot of stans have acted has kind of ruined it for me especially due to dismissing any criticism. This is not me saying I hate it or think it’s irredeemable Nazi propaganda but not everyone who dislikes it watches Lily Orchard and there are valid things to criticize about it.

There’s definitely bad faith criticism of the show such as flanderizing Steven into a crybaby with those Jack Horner/Hitler memes or claiming it was made to attack Christians but some people do have valid points. The episodes Bismuth and Gem Harvest may have not intended to come off as racist but one could interpret them as forcing people to forgive their abusers or bigoted relatives. As someone who’s Asian and knows about the way we’re represented, the way Priyanka and Doug were portrayed in the early seasons as tiger parents has not aged well.

One other criticism I’ve seen is that the show copies a lot of old sci fi or anime tropes without recognizing the issues with them or removing them from their original context. I and others have compared the show’s ending to the Highbreed arc from Ben 10 Alien Force. The difference is that the Highbreed were treated as supremacists who needed to be stopped, not as abusive family. People can debate over whether they should have gotten more consequences but they were not treated as dorky relatives. The only one Ben befriends was a low ranking officer who became the new leader and convinced the high council to accept having their DNA changed. There’s also the human zoo, another sci fi trope that’s aged badly with the racist implications.

The series is also compared to a lot of anime. There’s references to Ghibli, NGE, Sailor Moon and Dragon Ball and many have compared the show’s idealism to that of magical girl shows like Madoka Magica. The difference is that those shows didn’t use subjects like colonialism as a backdrop for family drama. SW suffers from that as well especially with the rebels only wanting to restore the old liberal system while taking imagery from the Viet Cong. People who wanted a revolution story weren’t necessarily wrong as that’s what the early seasons did set up.

Some will accuse me of fandomizing the war but I’ve noticed a lot of the hardcore stans are white queers who support Israel or demand complete support for democrats. Not saying every SU fan is a bad person btw. There are a lot of decent people who are anti Zionist and like the show but a lot of these pop progressive cartoons as well as SW, Disney and Marvel/DC are used by people with gross beliefs to infantilize themselves and dismiss any criticism from POC fans. If mainstream kids media is where you’re getting your all political takes from then maybe you do need to branch out and watch more mature stuff. Watching NGE helped me grow up a lot and learn nuance.

As a recap, I’m not saying SU is a bad show or that people are bad for liking it. It was important for my own development as well as a lot of lgbt youth and was a jumping point for a lot of my current interests such as classic anime or Lisa Hannigan, who’s an amazing musician and is pro Palestine btw. Future did help me a bit with mental health yet people are allowed to dislike it or find that even if it wasn’t intentional, there are some implications that should be addressed. I don’t hate it and there’s some stuff worth defending in it but it’s not the greatest show ever and people who get all their politics from it need to grow up. Between it, TOH, Dead End and She-Ra, I think a lot of the pop progressive media that we have today will not age well and that’s something we need to accept.

[pickypickypeak]

It’s scary on how atp alt right anti woke ragebaiter incels know what they’re doing and still parrot outrageously bigoted shit to brainwash others. Because look at what happened to ppl making misinformation vids abt Brie Larson hating her castmates, misinterpreting what Amandla Stenberg said in an OLD interview, attacking women who enjoy SW, and just all that gross stuff.

Also it’s weird that they use Disney as a scapegoat when Dreamworks’ Kung Fu Panda and Shrek franchises are technically woke bc KFP is SET IN CHINA AND MANY OF THE CHARACTERS ARE CHINESE AND SHREK HAS A LEAD FEM CHARACTER 💀

Everything you said. This is honestly ruining fandoms. Not because of the criticism, but because none of it can be taken seriously. There are almost no “serious” critiques, all they complain about is the wokeness. Or at the very least, they try to make them look serious by making vague statements like “the writing is so bad” which in their head sounds like they’re a movie critic, but actually it alone means exactly nothing, it’s literally air lol. Also are y’all movie writers?

And the reason for not bashing the movies you mentioned is, that was long before it was normalized to scream woke at literally anything. I’m sure these bigoted people already had beef with these movies for being “inclusive” but they just didn’t have an excuse to say that. If kfp 1 came out today it would DEFINITELY fall into the targets of the anti woke crowd (a fat panda being the hero? That’s totally woke material🙄)

[the-far-bright-center]

Can’t stand seeing posts and comments that are like ‘I wish Star Wars were good’ or ‘if only Star Wars were good’ — um, excuse me, it IS good????

The Skywalker saga is a good story.

The six Lucas films form two trilogies that mirror and complement one another.

That’s it, that’s Star Wars.

If you don’t like the real Star Wars, and don’t think it’s worth anything, then what are you even doing in the fandom?

One of the problems is people just passively accepting everything Disney claims as ‘Star Wars’ to be, well, Star Wars. When it’s not. It’s fanfiction that no one is required to consider as canon. So those god-awful sequels that tried to erase the existing storyline and claim a bunch of OOC shit happened to the Original Trio? Not part of the actual story.

Another problem is that a lot of contemporary fans are unable to appreciate the Lucas saga simply for what it is, and instead like to claim they could have done it ‘better’. I realise that fandom in general is largely about building on or ‘fixing’ things in canon to be more to one’s liking, but that is a highly subjective practice, and one person’s ‘improvement’ might not be the same as another’s. The Disney-era perhaps gives the impression that this is just a big soulless franchise with faceless creators churning out ‘content’ that is up for grabs, when the original heart of the story adhered, more or less, to one single creator’s vision.

The jokey meme that ‘Star Wars sucks’ and the constant lamenting that ‘if only it were good’ gets rather old for those of us who legitimately LOVE the Lucas saga exactly as it is.

[skysgalaxy]

For people to watch SW with the Original and Prequels and say there were no leading women

.

.

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What movies did you watch

[misscrawfords]

Had an amazing afternoon today. Odeon in the UK are currently re-releasing Star Wars in cinemas and I booked to go and see A New Hope. And then, checking when Empire Strikes Back was on, it turned out it was only on... immediately afterwards or during my choir rehearsal later in the week! So I did what I haven't done since I was a teenager and did a double bill at the cinema. Watching Return of the Jedi straight afterwards was too much though and I'll see that next week, hopefully.

Guys, it was SO GOOD. I feel so priviledged to see these films on the big screen. They stand up so well! Seeing that star destroyer come over my head in the opening scene of ANH, watching Han say "I know" in full technicolour, hearing The Imperial March fully blast through the cinema... I felt such a connection with my cousin (who is 20 years older than me) who apparently was obsessed with SW as a boy when they first came out, and I thought of my late uncle who introduced me to the OT on VHS as a teenager. It was so, so special.

It makes me so sad to see what Disney has turned this into and what so-called fanboys and antis have done. Maybe there always was a gatekeeping and nasty side to the SW fandom even in the 70s and 80s but it's such a shame. These are magical, perfect films telling a beautiful story. I hate that that's been ruined in so many ways.

In other unrelated news, I've put myself forward to give a talk on Star Wars and fandom to the school's feminist society. My only trouble will be only talking about it for half an hour!!

[awesomestarfighter]

#there's not even any CANON evidence that any of the trainers were mando #nor any canon evidence that jango actually had any kind of interactions with the clones #esp none that had anything to do with passing on mando culture #hell BOBA FETT HIMSELF says in the mandalorian that he does not consider himself to be mando #he wears the armor because it belonged to his father #and it's sentimental that way #but he doesn't count himself as a mando or ever have any interest in taking part in that culture #so if jango never bothered passing on that culture to the person he considered his son #why does anyone think he'd have done so for the ones he rejected?? #makes no sense y'all

I really don't get it when authors write clones as Mandalorians who are super attached to their culture and language. I mean, yeah, I get that Jango Fett was a Mandalorian (and so many people are so ridiculously horny for Mandalore, but that's for another day) but they explicitly say - several times - that their home planet is Kamino.

Maybe their training had some Mandalore influence, but we also see that a lot of their trainers are bounty hunters from loads of places as well as having Shaak Ti supervising.

They develop their own culture and traditions - like how they decorate their armour or earn their names - which may start out from Mandalorian roots but are obviously influenced by the war, their jedi leaders, and Kamino more than anything.

I just don't get the vibe from the shows and movies that Mandalore is that important to the clones apart from in that distant way people talk about where their ancestors came from. Whenever they talk about 'home' planet, its Kamino. Jango Fett is just their sperm donor bio-dad who they ignore the existence of most of the time.

[affidecrystal]

Genuine question for the Reylo community. Maybe someone can answer this but I remember very clearly on Tumblr in the Reylo fandom when TROS was released that the general consensus was that if Ben was in the World Between Worlds when being written out of the franchise, he would not be able to leave without Rey traveling through time and space to save him. In the same conversation, the same Reylos said “but Anakin didn’t need that and could come and go as he wanted according to The Clone Wars show”. How do you have one but not the other, especially when Ben is part of the Dyad that the Force favors since no other couple in the GFFA has that distinction? Ben only has supernatural skills as Kylo and once Kylo is dead, Ben loses his abilities? That’s how it reads. Why would the favored Dyad half be punished that harshly, except by SW fans and writers who hated Ben? Based on witnessing that experience within the fandom as self proclaimed Reylos in 2020 who disowned Ben said they refused to acknowledge any other version of the World Between Worlds if they even claim it to exist, it seems very hypocritical at minimum for those same people to say “praise be to The World Between Worlds” and “we now have seen that The World Between Worlds is real” now as is the current fixation. If nothing else, it shows that people didn’t respect Ben then or now because it’s an anti-Ben/Kylo (also anti-Adam) fanboy viewpoint. As if they didn’t already win by having one of their own retcon the movies with their screenplay of TROS via online petitions, which in turn retconned the entire GFFA to fit the live action Disney+ spinoffs. The universe in the many tv series is not what existed in the 11 film’s leading up to TROS because the events and characters in the original films don’t exist now except in a parallel universe.

…anyone want to take a stab…? My head hurts.

[izzythehutt]

I like how the normie consensus about the Kenobi show is that it "fixes" Obi-Wan lying to Luke about his father being dead at Vader's hand as opposed to being Vader himself because "oh Vader told him that and he really believed it" (I don't think this ever needed to be fixed, personally), when from my perspective it makes Ben look like more of a dick because it suggests that he was perfectly capable of killing Darth Vader in the in-between trilogies period and just...didn't for no clear or discernible reason. And in fact pushed off the responsibility onto Vader's own son. Which makes him MORE of a dick.

Look, I can forgive Mustafar. Anakin had just turned, it was an emotional time, and Obi-Wan was not unreasonable to assume nobody could survive that. But a second shot that you walk away from?

They could have made the final fight a little less of an obvious win, or given Obi-Wan a clear and urgent reason to run away before finishing the job (like one of the twins in danger) but instead he just completely overpowers and curbstomps Vader, then dicks off and leaves his former apprentice/murder robot a wheezing mess. If Obi-Wan really does think Vader "killed" Anakin, then he's a shitty Jedi, fullstop. You can have him not be able to let go of Anakin and therefore not have it in him to kill, OR he's completely accepted Vader is just a Sith and a menace and he has to kill. You don't get it both ways.

I enjoyed the dramatic angst of the confrontation as much as the next person, but I am also forced to concede that the entire OT depends on the fact of Luke (and, failing him, Leia) are the only people capable of defeating Vader and the Emperor. The movies just...kind of fundamentally don't work if there's another option, since Yoda and Obi-Wan literally say "there is no other option." This is the Skywalker show.

(In this house we ignore the ST because it's garbage, but I digress)

So what I'm saying is the show is, like most everything in the Disney era, a superfluous and canon-breaking fanfic I'm perfectly capable of enjoying for what it is while fully recognizing it contradicts what the films it's spun off from gave us in the first place.

TL;DR Ben Kenobi never left Tatooine between Ep3 and 4 and that's what I'm sticking with.

[the-far-bright-center]

I've been quite surprised as well, and I'm someone who has been fairly critical of most of what he's done under Disney. But outright hating him? Or being angry he is involved with Star Wars? No. I do not actually get that or share that opinion. My honest opinion is that right now, putting him in charge is 'too little, too late'. If anything, Filoni should have been the one to make the Sequels. Would they have been perfect? Of course not, no SW media is. But regardless of his quirks and flaws, and no matter what specific scenes, details, or characterisations he might get 'wrong', Filoni does actually understand and have genuine passion for Star Wars. He may go off on his own weird tangents and fanfiction-y directions that I don't agree with, but people need to remember that while working under Disney, he's had to essentially play clean up to the Sequels' horrific mess. We'll never actually know what Filoni Star Wars would have looked like if he could have approached it fresh from the get go. The early seasons of Rebels (which I actually enjoyed, it was only in the later seasons that Rebels went off the rails for me) are probably the closest to that we'll get. But once TFA and the Sequels came out, any and all SW creators have had to work within that awful set of parameters (particularly if doing anything set post-ROtJ). THAT is why I quit watching DIsney SW, not because I hate Filoni. Whatever issues one may have with his work, Filoni isn't to blame for the mess that Disney SW has become, that's all on whoever thought those stupid sequels were a good idea; whoever decided to get rid of tiered canon (aka how the old Expanded Universe used to be structured); and whoever thought trying to mimic the MCU was the right thing for Star Wars (hint: it's absolutely not). Every shitty thing about current Disney SW can be traced back to those decisions.

Filoni is far from perfect, but it's ridiculous to act like he's the one who caused all the current problems for Disney, when in reality they should have utilised more of his input sooner and maybe we wouldn't have ended up here....

(Personally, I just wish that whoever is in charge of Star Wars would re-instate tiered canon so that only the six Lucas films are actual canon, and the rest would simply be considered Expanded Universe again. But alas, that is unlikely....)

I really don't get the Filoni hate on this site. Has he done some weird shit with SW? Sure. Does he have some weird opinions? Sure. But most of the stuff he's done has been fine to great. Y'all hated George the same way back in the day. I feel like between Kennedy and Filoni, the choice should be obvious? Someone explain.

[the-far-bright-center]

In my view, ‘Star Wars’ is the Prequels and Original Trilogy—aka, the story of Anakin’s rise, fall, and redemption. In other words, the Skywalker saga. I simply cannot relate to the (imo, fanon) idea that the Jedi are the MAIN protagonists of the story. This was never the case, not in the Lucas saga, at least. It’s not that the Jedi are the ‘bad guys’, either—it’s just that the Skywalker family is what the saga is actually about. The Sith vs. Jedi struggle is simply the *backdrop* against which the story is set. The fact that so many fans seem to insist otherwise is one of the many reasons I struggle to engage with current SW fandom.

[skysgalaxy]

Look all honesty I liked the sequel characters but the fact of the matter is that Disney was trying to create something that already happened that's where my problem lies with the sequels

[intermundia]

I'm shocked that so many people wished for Ben and/or Reylo. I didn't know that this pairing is still so popular? I felt it was my job as a Obi-Wan fan to wish for a second season. 🙈

yeah, i have mixed feelings about it. i think the ship would have less people agitated about it if disneylucasfilm had handled the last movie in literally any other way than they did. like make it officially romantic, reylos can celebrate, and then the community will hum along happily doing art and writing stories and keeping to themselves as they've gotten what they wanted. OR make it officially not romantic, don't do a dyad bond, don't center their relationship, make a movie about the fall of neofascism, and then while the reylos might have been pissed at the time, they would have been able to accept that canon did it's own thing, and they can write their AUs and work in a parallel space, and again, they would hum along happily in the background like all other ships.

disney, however, did a perfect storm to keep them feeling tantalized with a story half-told, a weird half-pandering that just is so fundamentally unsatisfying to EVERYONE that it has kept the ship alive in peoples minds way longer than it would have if it had been properly resolved within the narrative itself, for yea or nay, you know? at least that's my theory. people have a lot of strong opinions about reylo, and they are entitled to their opinions, my own opinion has changed a great deal from when i shipped them in 2015/16, BUT no matter the ship, they don't deserve this shit. star wars treated them badly and continues to do so, exactly like this stunt with the 'we're listening' just.... ugh