#anti thrawn

[short-wooloo]

Thrawn stans are like the Batman stans of the SW fandom

"Batman can beat anyone cuz prep time"

"Thrawn knows everything that's going to happen because he studies art"

[awesomestarfighter]

#fellas is it virtuous to commit war crimes

nobody does it like the folks on quora

[not-the-tie-youre-looking-for]

“i can’t wait to see eli vanto in TotE” “i hope the crew of the chimera gets a cameo” “faro would be so cool to see”

no please i beg you please filoni do not TOUCH THESE GUYS bro will retcon every last one of them the first chance he gets. watch this absolute lunatic retcon the entire thrawn trilogy

[hellonoblesky]

Genuinely the more Filoni writes Thrawn the more upset I get. I’ve poured who even knows how many hours of my life into absorbing Thrawn as a character and being enthralled in his story just to watch all of it get bastardized and ignored. It makes me angry to tears as a fan and makes me EXTREMELY upset as an artist and writer, because if Filoni just made his own character to fuck around with that would be fine, I wouldn’t care, but taking a character someone else has poured as much time as Timmothy Zahn has into Thrawn? Taking a character whose creator has written books for in both the old canon and current canon continuities? A character with 12 total books to his name (if you count Legends ofc and further count the Hand of Thrawn books which like I know he’s dead by then but ykwim)? It’s cruel!

[foundfamilynonsense]

Y’know. Anakin was a real asshole in Ahsoka’s hallucination.

Like. She mentions something about what she’ll be able to teach her padawan one day, since all she’s being taught is how to be a soldier, and Anakin’s like “teaching’s not all it’s cracked up to be”

And like. Asshole move. And Ahsoka rightfully calls him out on it. And he goes on the whole “uuuh I was joking. Lighten up.” Literally a complete jackass.

But beyond how he answered the question, it’s a valid complaint Ahsoka is bringing up! Anakin’s teaching her how to live or die. But Ahsoka wants to be taught how to be a jedi.

What happens after the war is over (order 66 never happens) and she now has to navigate a galaxy without a war? The Jedi take teaching very seriously there’s no greater honor than teaching a padawan. And she’s not being accurately taught, so she will not be able to pass anything on to the next generation.

But Anakin brushes it aside because he simply does not respect her or her wishes. Like. He never wanted a padawan, despite teaching being foundational to the Jedi. And he only took ahsoka in because he started to like her and became attached to her. He doesn’t care about jedi legacy, not really. So he brushes her comment off with a joke.

But in the rest of the vision… idk it didn’t feel like we were supposed view Anakin as entirely wrong here. He wasn’t in the right, he was definitely channeling Vader and being an ass, but he was basically the reason Ahsoka survived the fall, right? Bc he was making her choose life? When Ahsoka wins against him it’s sort of like she’s both learned his lesson and moved beyond him. And then for the rest of the season he’s only talked about in positive ways.

And like. That one line ahsoka said was really powerful in relation to the entire point of the show. What does she have to pass onto her own padawan (Sabine) if she wasn’t properly trained herself? That is, perhaps, the only valid plot question asked in the entire show. And it doesn’t get an answer. It’s never even brought up again.

[mzminola]

Jason would also unhesitatingly kill Thrawn and repatriate all the looted cultural artifacts.

Jason Todd would unhesitatingly kill Agent Kallus and I appreciate that.

[machiavellli]

LET ZAHN COOK FR‼️

Sorry, I saw your post (and reblog) guys and I had to do some cringy stuff. This was funnier in my head.🧍‍♀️

But thank you so much for the inspiration @jetcorax @littlekhada !!

[jedi-enthusiast]

I said I would get on my "let villains just be evil" soapbox again in the Jedi Appreciation server, so here we are.

LET VILLAINS JUST BE EVIL, FOR FORCE'S SAKE!!!

For some context: this was brought up on a discussion of how Kallus should've just stayed a villain instead of getting the shitty half-assed "redemption arc" that he did in Rebels and also how I would have done Rebels differently.

Now-

I am just...so utterly sick of people (both fans + some of the people creating new SW media) just not letting villains be villains and/or trying to soften them up or give them a sad backstory or whatever.

-----

I like Anakin/Darth Vader as a villain...fans try to justify his actions and say that he was right + Filoni is now under the delusional impression that Anakin was the "best Jedi."

I like Thrawn as a villain...I've also seen people justify his actions and say that he was "right" to steal important cultural artifacts from the cultures he's taking over/destroying because "they'd be destroyed anyway," like that makes it ok.

(I'm also terrified that Filoni is gonna try to give him some sort of sob story or redemption arc in the Ahsoka show, since that's pretty on par for what he's been doing lately)

I like Maul as a villain...and apparently people also try to justify his actions, especially in Rebels, for some reason. I don't even know how, but apparently they do.

I like Dooku as a villain and Filoni tried to justify his actions and make him seem "reasonable" in TotJ, like Dooku didn't become a fucking fascist dictator.

I haven't seen enough of the Sequels to properly gauge whether or not I'd like Kylo Ren as a villain, but plenty of people did! ...and then the directors gave him a half-assed redemption arc and called it quits.

-----

Like please, for the love of god, can people just let villains be evil and terrible people? Can we all just enjoy their characters as they are instead of trying to turn them into something they're not?

Because, at this point, the only villain that's safe to like is Palpatine--but I'm almost certain that people have tried to justify his actions too.

It's exhausting to have to explain-

"Yes, I like Anakin/Darth Vader because I think he's badass, no I don't think the Jedi were evil or in the wrong or that they caused his Fall."

"Yes, I like Thrawn because I think he's creepy and a formidable opponent to face, no I don't think he was benevolent for stealing cultural artifacts from cultures he destroyed."

"Yes, I like Maul because he's absolutely batshit insane, no I don't think his actions against Obi-Wan were justified or that he was right to try and manipulate/kidnap Ezra to be his apprentice."

"Yes, I like Dooku because he's a snarky asshole and also pretty badass, no I don't think that he was actually right or that the Separatists were right either."

etc. etc.

LET VILLAINS JUST BE EVIL!

[dalekofchaos]

The more I think about how Thrawn was presented in Ahsoka, the more I don't like it because it does not line up with who Thrawn is in the canon Thrawn novel trilogy or even in Rebels.

The more I think about it, supporting the First Order does not seem in character for Thrawn. He wanted a strong Empire in order to protect the galaxy against other, darker threats, and destroying the remnants of the Empire by encouraging the First Order to fight the New Republic seems like moving backwards.

We also know that (a) there's something powerful left behind in the distant galaxy where Thrawn was exiled, (b) Ezra's force abilities lean into emotional connections - with the Purrgil, Loth-wolves, etc., and (c) the Grysk, as a threat to the Galaxy, rely on emotional control over their client species.

Thrawn not noticing Ezra on his ship would be out of character. Thrawn orchestrating an escape that returns him to the Galaxy, leaves three Jedi and a Mandalorian behind to fight whatever is in the exile galaxy, and brings Ezra Bridger back to the Galaxy to serve as a weapon against the Grysk would be completely in character -- and the fact that Thrawn's tactics tend to look suboptimal from the outside until he explains the logic would explain why he looked so ineffective trying to return to the Galaxy.

Thrawn wants Ezra back in the Galaxy, and season 2 will show Thrawn's return to the Chiss. We should see Admiral Ar’alani, Vanto and Faro, but that's just wishful thinking on my part because at this point I don't think Filoni understands why we like Thrawn, because the man writes him like a mustache twirling villain instead of the morally grey nuanced character Zahn originally wrote. But then again, this is the same man who turned Grievous from a literal Jedi murder machine into a pathetic joke. So it's no wonder Thrawn became what he did in Ahsoka.

[antianakin]

I've decided that Rex isn't going to forgive Sabine within a timeline where the Ahsoka show happened. Like the MOMENT he hears that Thrawn is back and they have to fight in yet another war all over again all because Sabine was stupid and selfish, that's it for him. He's heard about Anakin at this point, he's gotten enough information to know that Anakin also made a really stupid, selfish choice and it led to the destruction of Rex's entire world. The Jedi gone, the clones enslaved, the Republic crushed. He knows where this kind of selfishness leads now and he's unwilling to stick around just hoping Sabine turns herself around faster than Anakin did. He's been betrayed enough in his life now to know what he's willing to forgive and what he isn't. And Sabine forcing them all to fix a problem they already had to lose people to fix the first time because she got a little lonely and refused to ask anybody for help isn't something he's willing to forgive.

[short-wooloo]

I have thoughts on the constant assertion by thrawn stans that Dave filoni "retconned" him from being "morally gray" into just an evil villain

This claim mostly comes from perceived dissonance between thrawn's portrayal in Rebels/Ahsoka vs his portrayal in his novels

Ok, 1.

Rebels/Ahsoka and any other movie/show thrawn may appear in are higher canon, they are more canon then the books, if there's a contradiction between them, movie/show wins, or put simply, the movies/shows are canon to the books, but the books are not canon to the movies/shows, the books must fit with the movies/shows, not vice versa

And 2.

I think people entirely miss the point of the new thrawn trilogy

Aside from the fact that Rebels came first, and is thus the primary source for thrawn's characterization, the books are in the past tense (even the ones that are supposed to run parallel with the Rebels seasons, since they would have been written after those seasons were, any inconsistencies are the fault of the books)

They're prequels

Thrawn's characterization in them is who he WAS, his characterization in Rebels/Ahsoka/future high canon is who he became

You're not supposed to take away from the books that thrawn is a "morally grey but ultimately good character who dies bad things for good reasons" (and that "fIlOnI rEtCoNnEd tHrAwN"), the takeaway should be "look how far he's fallen, look at what he's become, look at what the empire turns people into, look at what constant rationalizations of "the ends justify the means" leads to, look at how the dark side can even corrupt and twist people who cannot use it"

Thrawn before he joined the empire was inclined to believe that democracy was bad and only by brutally forcing it can there be order and "peace", the chiss ascendancy is a xenophobic authoritarian military-oligarchy, it has a lot of common ground with the empire (and it's successor states)

And that brings us to what the empire is

In the empire, bad people are rewarded, you cannot get ahead without being so, tyranny, brutality, and ruthlessness are encouraged, it gets you promotions, authority, and favor of the emperor, it's a system designed to bring out the worst in people, good people in the empire end up powerless, dead, or they turn against it

And thrawn is a grand admiral, one of the highest ranks in the empire, the only people who definitely had more authority than thrawn were tarkin, Vader, and Palpatine

He could not have gotten there without committing to the empire and it's values

Maybe he did have a good reason for joining the empire, maybe he really did believe he was protecting his people

But that all rings hollow to the people who were oppressed by the empire that he supported

[unitedfrontvarietyhour]

May the 4th Be With You, Comrades!

[admiral-arelami]

AITA If My Favorite Character is a Fascist?

Uh oh. The Fascsplainers are at it again. Yes, we know what fascism is, thx.

[oreolesbian]

rereading HTTE, and in the first 5 pages of luke’s introduction, zahn already does a better job characterizing luke’s fear of being the last remaining jedi, the shouldered responsibility of his burden to help rebuild the galaxy post-war, and his depression about all of it , leagues better than TLJ could’ve ever dreamed of. also hot chocolate scene my beloved

[just-prime]

8 : Oh so boring

The horrifying MCU-ification of the Star Wars universe is in horrific display as 8 episodes lead nowhere but setup.

Before I get to everything else, I do want to say, Ray Stevenson's passing is a true tragedy, and I appreciate the love and care he clearly put into his character. He was the only compelling one, and I shudder to think of how Disney will probably heartlessly recast.

Now, on to the episode

Well, all the leaks that said it was zombies were right, to the surprise of no one. This is the MCU now, we need something more than just a fuck ton of stormtroopers to blow through, we need an undead CGI army.

First off : The Jedi, The Witch, and The Warlord...FUCK OFF FILONI. YOU ARE NOT CUTE.

The show opens with the attempt to lull Legends fans back into a Sion reference for no reason. Also, Thrawn's super baggy pants seem unnecessary, especially since the design in Rebels always has him in perfectly tailored clothes. Nothing during his decade abroad that would have cause the pants to change that drastically, so it just feels like an unnecessary change that is not an attractive look :(

Morgan's power ups make no sense, and as soon as she got them she was going to die. Her eyes had me making a half dozen Supernatural jokes for obvious reasons. The whole "Blade of Talzin" thing is also very dumb given the fact that I assume Mother Talzin would have used every weapon in her arsenal to stop Grievous, and I would think a lightsaber proof sword is on that list.

The entire "Ezra makes himself a new lightsaber" scene filled me rage for a few reasons.

A) Ezra literally just turned down Sabine's offer of the lightsaber for the martial arts force powers which we never see him use again.

B) Huyang knowing about Caleb and Kanan being the same person feels kinda weird to me to be perfectly honest.

C) Ezra's new lightsaber is boring. Full stop. This is the kid who built a gun into his first one, it makes no sense that he'd make one that looks this mediocre.

D) All of Sabine's family dying horrible deaths on Mandalore has always struck me as a cop out. It's just lazy writing to isolate Sabine.

The Stakes

Spoiler alert : THERE ARE NONE

We knew this was going to end in a cliffhanger for a while now, which means none of the main cast was going to die. Morgan has always been a means to an end for Thrawn, not that her loyalty was ever explain...But none of our heroes were gonna bite it (regardless of how I hoped for Huyang to explode) so there were no stakes. Thrawn had to escape, despite the fact that he is weirdly shaken, so he does. Ezra had to get home, so he does. Sabine and Ahsoka are now trapped on some stupid Mortis world??? Okay, pause, I'm getting ahead of myself here...because before that...

Sabine has the Force now

My deepest condolences to anyone who is finding this out from me, but Sabine is offically confirmed and shown to be Force sensitive. Yes it is dumb. Yes it makes no sense. Yes this is something we all saw being foreshadowed from day one, unfortunately. Especially with the playing down of her Mandalorian-ness (she's constantly losing her helmet, her gun accuracy has utterly gone, she barely uses her gauntlets, etc etc) it was obvious that Filoni wanted to do with her, what he was too cowardly to do with Grogu.

Other miscellaneous shit

It turns out that Ahsoka's shuttle is Jedi era...which makes no fucking sense.

The nightsisters being totally on board with the Empire feels like their ability to tell what's going on in the main universe might be a bit sketchy do to the fact that they missed that the guy in charge of the Empire is the one who ordered Dathomir razzed.

100% of the problems that the gang run into would have been solved if Sabine had a fucking jetpack

They pull the "Thrawn knew Anakin" card out of nowhere in the dumbest possible way, which really just goes to show how much FIloni hates the new canon Thrawn books.

Chopper recognizes Ezra (which was rather cute) before Hera does, because he decides to show up on a New Republic cruiser in full Thrawn stormtrooper garb. Also we don't even get a hug between Hera and Ezra.

Shin (because she exists, remember?) who is also stranded now, goes and appears to be taking over the bandit camp we saw earlier. Have no idea where they are taking that...but honestly, good for Shin doing something for her, this seems like a selfcare move.

Now, the ending...Fucking Mortis

So, the final shot we get of Baylan, he is standing on a giant statue of The Father (there is a statue of The Son, and a destroyed statue of The Daughter) pointing out towards something on the horizon.

Back at the hermit crab people camp, Ahsoka and Sabine (and fucking Anakin's ghost, because that's right people, instead of hanging out with his son, Anakin has been just hovering over Ahsoka this whole time apparently) here this chirping, and it's a fucking creepy hyper realistic CGI Morai.

So yeah, that's clearly how all of the trapped characters are going to get off this planet...the World between Worlds. Now, this brings up a fuck ton more questions...Chief of all being how did Ezra not use this to escape years ago???

And I get that Mortis is not everybody's favorite Clone Wars arc. Which is fair. I don't hate it, but I never loved it, and Filoni dragging in the dumbest piece of Force lore that he created is infuriating. ESPECIALLY with this being so obviously aimed at those who've not watched Clone Wars or Rebels. I'm curious to see how much he immediately recons about it, given that it's been his go-to move since before even Mando s3...

I fear they're going to do something like "Bayan is The Father, Ahsoka is The Daughter, and Shin and Sabine have to fight over being The Son" or some stupid bullshit like that.

I'm glad this is the last Filoni property we're getting for a while, since I'm pretty sure he's not involved with Skeleton Crew at all writing-wise.

I am just so happy it's over!

In the meantime, if you are as annoyed at Filoni as I am, spite him by reading the new canon Thrawn books!!! They are really fantastic and give Thrawn a lot of facinating depth, along with having an incredible cast of side characters.

For those of you who are new or just finding me because of my Ahsoka rants, please stick around!!! I'm sure I will be having other annoyed Ahsoka thoughts in the weeks to come as I think back about the full series and about just everything that it's fucked up. Feel free to pop into my ask box if you're curious about my other Star Wars related opinions, I'm more than happy to answer, though know that for the majority of the recent shows, I do not look fondly.

But if you are looking for some vindication on not enjoying recent Star Wars things, then this is the blog for you!!!

[ooops-i-arted]

filoni called anakin "the greatest jedi of all time" in the ahsoka sneak peak lmaooo that's wild. just the cherry on top of the slop he's been serving us in recent years.

is that why other jedi in his works are often trashed and his darling favorite oc ahsoka is so elevated in importance? is that why he doesn't know jack shit about attachments and constantly misrepresents it, because to him, jedi are the big meanies that tried preventing anakin from boning padme? someone please stop this man.

Ah, anon, did you sense a disturbance in the Force that brought you here? Instagram forced me to look at the new Ahsoka trailer about forty times today and I'm sure my saltiness is palpable. Every time I hear that orange fucktart say "Heir to the Empire" I could rip up his stupid notebook emblazoned with Ahsoka's symbol I saw in a behind the scenes post with my bare hands.

I think Filoni's Anakin (not canon Anakin, not the one in the prequel films, because TCW Anakin is NOT Anakin* and I will die on this hill) is a dear OC to Filoni, but of course not on the same level of Ahsoka. So of course he's speshul just the way Ahsoka is. The Jedi ~just don't understaaaaaaand them~ and they DESERVE special treatment and to break the rules like many an amateur writers' OCs.

*Apparently the TCW Anakin voice actor was told to "do a mix of Luke and Han" so clearly staying in-character for Anakin was never on the radar.

I did see a post I can't find now that was directed at Anakin stans, not Filoni, but it was interesting because it said basically Anakin is called the greatest Jedi of all time by his stans but they really mean "the most powerful Jedi of all time." Because he possibly/probably was, whether you go by midi-chlorians or just demonstrated power with the Force. But the post went on to say the Jedi don't value power like that, don't measure by it, so it's a fandom projection to say Anakin was the "greatest of the Jedi." Which makes sense to me, because the greatest of an organization wouldn't be the one who destroys them. And how are we measuring "greatness" anyway? Overall accomplishment? Skill with the Force? Number of people helped/saved (and do you get a penalty for people you hurt/kill)? Does Yoda win by default just because he's had longer than everyone else to rack up Jedi Greatness points and longer to practice his skills? Personally I would pick Revan, powerful in the Force, made a huge impact in her day, and her redemption (if you play Light Side like I did) was actively undoing the damage she did and defeating Malak for good, not just killing a Sith to save her own loved one and then dying. And of course I'll freely admit part of that is because she's one of my favorite characters. The point is, it's subjective. And Filoni has shown again and again he cannot be subjective about his faves. Just look at TCW Character Bo getting the Darksaber literally handed to her by the main character being shafted in his own show.

Oooo, since you're here, wanna hear an absolutely RANCID crack theory I had today? What if the whole Din Grogu thing is setting up some obscure Outer Rim tradition of taking on another's name with your own so that Filoni has an excuse to have Luke say "Oh Ahsoka, you are so wise and perfect and the Best Jedi Of All Time Who Truly Embodies What Filoni Thinks A Jedi Should Be, I would like to go by Ahsoka Luke now! Who's Padme anyway, no one important." While Filoni claps and honks like a seal as Ahsoka Luke Skywalker appears in the credits. Okay it's very silly but I put nothing past him.