#anti thalia grace

[wanderingmind867]

"Despite what she'd said about meeting him again, Jason wondered. She'd found a new family with the Hunters, and a new mother in Artemis. She seemed so confident and comfortable with her life, jason wasn't sure if he'd ever be part of it. And she seemed so set on finding her friend Percy. Had she ever searched for Jason that way?"

Well, Jason, considering you're never mentioned in the original five books: she probably stopped caring about you after a while. Assuming you were dead, she grieved but mostly moved on. And you're right. I don't think you'll ever belong in her world. Because she has new people in her life, and you're not as important as her Hunters or as Artemis or even as Annabeth or Percy. You're not as important to her as you could be.

But screw thalia. You don't need her. You have Leo and Piper and Coach Hedge. Those three are some of the best people you could have. They actually like you and see you for you. They don't just see you as some two year old who tried to eat a stapler. They know the real you. They're real friends.

And eventually you'll have Nico and all the other members of the seven in your friend group too. You don't need a stupid sister who abandoned you to be a hunter…oh my god, it's Bianca di Angelo all over again! Why are there two male characters who get virtually abandoned by their sisters!? Great, now Nico and Jason really have something to bond over...

[my-pjo-stuff]

The day I lost all respect for Thalia was the day she faulted LUKE for her death (a 14 y/o kid deciding to defend himself instead of running) instead of Hades (fully grown god who specifically sent the monsters that killed Thalia after her to avenge something she had nothing to do with.)

[justaneedle]

Just a thought: Luke didn't have anyone he could rely on.

Not only when we talk about the figure of a parent or just an adult, but he also didn't have an equal.

Something relatively close to this was Thalia, and even she, either led him (less because she led, but because Luke followed) or he covered her back. I mean, even in this relationship, where he could rely on her, they weren't at least somewhat equal because of their early trauma and loneliness. And even that two or three single years in his life ends abruptly — Luke loses Thalia, being only a fourteen-year-old kid.

And that's it. Chiron doesn't give a fuck, Dionysus doesn't give a royalfuck, but Luke has a bunch of kids just like him — desperate for someone they can rely on.

And so on for the rest of his damn short life. Even the whole point of manipulations and emotional swings from Kronos is that he made him feel needed. Luke has been so hungry for this feeling all his life that he just turns a blind eye to neglect, aggression and fucking torture, just for another swing when he can feel valuable. Literally Backbiter — the sword is a gift. And then what happens?

Luke returns Thalia and she, technically unchanged since turning into a tree... she dumped him, technically kills and chooses those whom she just hated.

I literally can't blame Luke for last desperate attempt to grab onto the only person he has left — Annabeth. At that moment he was again that 14-year-old kid who just had lost his only support.

I mean, no blame on Annabeth, but if I were Luke, I'd apathetically let myself be put in a golden coffin and literally die, too.

***

Thalia deserves special mention here, since her decision to stay with the Hunters of Artemis and loyalty directly to the goddess could be explained by the desperate desire of a teenager to get at least some support and stability, even if it means sacrificing her beliefs—

But for this Rick should give an actual FUCK! Which he didn't!

[childofthewargod]

Saying it here and now

Taps the mic

I fucking HATE TH*LIA GRACE

MHM YEAH LETS GO LETS GO

I SAID IT

BOOM

Drops mic

[spider-ghoul]

THIS MAKES ME SO MAD HOBIE WOULD NOT FUCK WITH THALIA

I ACTUALLY HAVE SO MUCH BEEF WITH THE WHOLE 'hobie n thaila would get along' NO THEY WOULDN'T????

Im so sorry she made me so mad- like she joined the hunters to avoid the prophecy and give it to percy?? hobie would NEVER. Im such a firm believer that thaila grace would get laughed out of a carolsdaughter's concert.

"she wasnt ready for the prophecy" neither was Percy???

Hobie would never push an issue onto someone else, and neither would punks in general. The whole movement is about making things better for everyone- he if was in her shoes he wouldve stepped up.

(Ive thought about this a ridiculous amount)

Anyways here's some messages from back in October when i first saw ppl talking about them n got mad in a gc (cropped bc there was mashup art from someone on Tumblr and i dont slander artists):

Thalia Grace:*Is a black british punk*

Percy Jackson fans who've watched 1 blackcentric media and only came because it has Spiderman:Hmmmm,getting a lot of Hobie Brown vibes from this

[po1sonous-l0ve]

Headcannons!

Nico does gymnastics- he's super flexible.

Will is the complete opposite-stiff as wood but strong.

Jason (who is definitely not dead) loves teamwork games- football (soccer for the americans) basketball, rugby, volleyball, cricket, etc.

Sally and Paul legally adopt Jason and Thalia, and Jason stays in Percy's room when he goes to college.

Annabeth used to read Artemis Fowl and got a lot of tricks from the books.

Nico likes to play DnD, and is always pestering Hades to play with him.

Nico learns how to braid afro hair for Hazel, and does cute braids for her whenever she visits camp.

Leo and Calypso break up and part as friends (manifesting for a future book)

Jason and Leo get together (more manifesting)

Rachel is pan or ace.

Nico and Rachel are beasties, and he goes over to her house to listen to Olivia Rodrigo and MGK

[lenore-d0ve]

How I would have fixed Bianca Di Angelo's Character

First of all Bianca is a character who has very little actual personality or backstory, I'm afraid ultimately she is just another age old case of a woman being killed in order to further a man's story.

So to fix her(and give her an actual character) I would do the below:

1.Make her older!

• I would make her 14, a few months older than Percy(specifically born on June 9th 1932, idk why but I feel like it fits her) seeing as Bianca being 12 logically makes zero sense in the context of her story. Making her older would in turn make her choice to join the hunters, make Artemis's decision to let her become a hunter and zoë's decision to let her join the quest all less stupid. Her being older would also make her the second choice for the prophecy, above Percy. It also just fits with what little character she has to be older.

2. ACTUALLY GIVE HER A PERSONALITY!!!

• Something that has always deeply annoyed me is that she has no personality! We're clearly meant to be devastated by her death but we know so little about her that her death doesn't really invoke any emotion. When we look at the Greek big 3 kids personality's in all honesty she and Percy have a lot more in common than Percy and Thalia or Bianca and Nico, so l'd hone in on that, id point out their similarities(though I wouldn't make her basically female Percy, there's already enough of that in this fandom), make her happy, make her gloomy, make her apathetic, just make her something!

3. Expand more on her powers and what they would have been had she not died.

• I wouldn't make her show off too much as to not give away the surprise of her and Nicos father but l'd definitely give her something. I saw once in a fanfic that her powers were to control the rivers of the underworld and do things like turn any water into a river of the underworld and I quite liked it and thought it was creative.

4. Don't make Bianca's entire character revolve around Nico!

• Bianca's character completely and utterly revolves around Nico, it's always 'oh Nico this' and 'Nico that' like please shut up!

Why is Bianca 'mothering' Nico at all??? For the first 9/13 years of their life's they lived with their mother and all the other parts were in the casino; where they had their every need taken care of, and their school; where Bianca and Nico probably weren’t even around one another very often!; they both also mainly grew up in fascist Italy(an extremely misogynistic place & time mind you) so even with that(Especially with that) it makes no sense why Bianca would be ‘mothering’ Nico(honestly nico would most likely been raised and expected to protect and take care of her!)

—

This is less of a fix and more of a silly headcanon but I’d have her steal 6 friendship bracelets from the gift shop whilst at the National Air and Space Museum. One for Percy, one for Thalia, one for Zoë, one for Grover, one for Nico and one for herself(she got one for Nico because even whilst caught up in becoming a hunter she had noticed that Nico was sad, most likely from feeling left out, so she got him a bracelet so when she came home she could give it to him and he wouldn’t feel so left out anymore). When she dies she takes her and Nicos bracelets with her. They never find either bracelets. Percy, Thalia and Grover have never taken the bracelets off.

—

Anyways if you have any other suggestions or thoughts please let me know!

(This has been sitting in my drafts for a WHILE now😭)

(Also sorry if this is hard to read!!!)

[lady-menrva]

Not gonna lie, it’s amusing when fans these days appear so surprised about Rick writing for money first, and everything else second; in hindsight it’s been this way since PJO. I mean, we’re talking about the same man who:

• Used the Second World War as a plot point.

• Didn't bother to do basic research on Greek mythology

-resorting to modern cliches

(Demeter being an overbearing mother, Ares being a jerk, Persephone being nothing more than a “UwU soft flower queen”)

-blatantly twisting personalities in the name of ‘creative license’: (Poseidon being sanitised, Calypso being sanitised, Artemis being a predatory misandrist etc)

-misinterpretations (Hades being an ‘outcast’ among gods - I am not talking about the Greek people thought of him)

● Chose convenience over genuinely good character-writing:

Characters like Bianca, Thalia and Rachel were shelved.

Grover's role was relegated to major supporting character.

The side cast was heavily underutilized and underdeveloped.

The main characters, Percy and Annabeth received the brunt too. They could've received bona fide character arcs and development, their personalities could've been fleshed out a lot better (especially fatal flaws), and their relationships with other characters deserved more spotlight. Yet, they ended up in a tragic pitfall of YA fiction trites.

There are many more issues with PJO (including ableist and racist undertones), but I think this will suffice. Point is, quality-writing was never really Rick’s priority.

[demigod-shenanigans]

Thinking about the lost trio’s mortal parents

Thinking about Esperanza and Beryl both being clear-sighted (it’s said that Beryl knew who Zeus was, both times, and Esperanza specifically talked to Leo about his powers and seemed to know who Hera was).

Thinking about Beryl, who was famous and had so much and who did everything to stay in the public eye. Who would have given it all, including sacrificing her own kids, to get Zeus’ attention back. Who only ever wanted Zeus for herself and never for her children. Who named Jason to placate Juno’s anger and ultimately gave up Jason to her. Who even in death remained bitter and blamed Thalia running away for her own choices and her death, saying she left when Beryl needed her the most, despite the fact that Thalia was nine and severely neglected and thought Beryl had killed her brother and an adult’s choices should never have been her responsibility to begin with. Beryl blamed it all on Olympus and showed no regret for her actions. Who thought she could just neglect both of her children and abandon her two year old with no consequences and that Jason would still join her. Who only cared about Jason once he was a hero and a warrior, and even then only cared for him as a tool of revenge she could use against the gods.

Thinking about Esperanza, who had nothing. Who was smart and skilled and barely scraping by despite her degree. Who would have given everything to keep her son safe. Who had a son prophecied to be a hero and tried to look the Fates in the eye and say no, because he was her son first and destined for bigger things second. Who banned Hera, the queen of the gods, from their apartment because the gods couldn’t have Leo, not yet, not when he was still so young. Who still tried to prepare Leo, with everything she had, because she knew she couldn’t keep him from his fate in the long run, but also knew there were at least tools she could give him that would help. Who, despite knowing that a god had once loved her, only wanted Hephaestus as a father for Leo, never as a partner for herself. Who only ever worried about the ways she could fail Leo, never about him failing her. Who was happiest around her son and loved him more than her own life. Who, even in death, never could have blamed Leo.

Thinking about Tristan, who is in some ways a mirror to both Beryl and Esperanza. Tristan grew up with nothing and eventually, as an adult, he suddenly had everything, except the things that really mattered to him. He couldn’t keep Aphrodite and never fell in love again after her. Tristan can’t see through the Mist, but he had his heart shattered by the mythological world anyway, even without seeing. He couldn’t save his father because at the time he didn’t have the money to pay for the treatment, he only became famous after.

His relationship with his daughter is really strained. He’s probably terrified of losing Piper like he lost his dad and Piper’s mom. Tristan works and works and works because he thinks if they just have enough he can keep Piper safe (because even if he couldn’t have kept her mom that way, enough money absolutely could have saved his dad), but that makes him unable to give Piper his attention, which is what she needs the most. Hell, he thinks he’s protecting her by keeping her away from his celebrity nonsense, and in a way he sort of is, but it’s not what Piper wants.

Thinking about Tristan seeing through the Mist in TLH and breaking. Thinking about Tristan finally seeing Piper, and her having to give up the one thing she’s wanted all this time and make him look away again because it shatters him.

Esperanza and Beryl could both see their children for who they were, one for the better, the other for the worse. Tristan can never see Piper for who she truly is. We’ve seen how it would destroy him if he did.

Thinking about Tristan losing everything until the only thing he has left to give Piper is his attention—and that’s enough. (I still wish that had been a choice on his part after realizing that’s what Piper wants and needs instead of being forced on him, but I digress.)

Tristan could have been more like Beryl. Their stories are decently similar. But even though he can never fully see Piper for who she is, and even though it took him longer than it should have, when his daughter needed him most, he turned around and learned to be more like Esperanza.

[wanderingmind867]

I haven't been too fond of some of the scenes with thalia (she seems antagonistic towards leo and coach hedge for no reason, and she just seems rude to me). I wrote this small note in school yesterday, and i stand by it. She seemed rude, and i didn't like it. So if we're picking between the grace siblings: give me jason, every time. Jason Grace is the best, and I like him a lot more than his sister. I really just...he's so much cooler to me. And on the plus side: I know we're approaching the scenes with aeolus, and my brain clearly remembers those scenes as being fun.

[my-pjo-stuff]

The way Thalia behaves and is portrayed in PJO and HOO genuinely makes me uncomfortable. Especially if you remember the way she was talked about pre-comeback and in the Diary of Luke Castellan. She's supposed to be punk, yet the only "punk" thing about her is her clothes. She willingly bows down to a hurtful system and serves a goddess openly misandrist. One minute Luke's her best friend, the next he's an abomination before god and then her best friend again. Thalia demonstrates a frankly horrifying lack of empathy for anyone not on her side. Almost dehumanizing Luke in the way she talks about him to Percy in TLO even though logically, she is the one who should understand Luke the best at that point. Her lingo of him "taking it too hard", and "everyone having their own stuff" aswell as "But Hermes loves him" are the exact same as abusers and victim blamers use to talk down damages and other issues. She gives me the vibe of some sort of indoctrinated borderline fanatic just blindly following a system actively harmful since she herself is content in it. Even if she was shoved off into irrelevancy after TTC, her entire characterization is so contradictory that it paints her as someone deeply selfish. In my opinion Thalia has given no indication of having any sort of reliable moral compass, or that she would refuse a hurtful system should she benefit from it. She's a walking, talking nuke at the gods' disposal who can be turned against anyone in her full might. Yes, even those she cares about. Should Jason rebel, and should the gods order Thalia to put him down while providing her with "solid" evidence of his "wrongdoings"- she'd mercilessly murder her own brother. I will die on this hill.

[justaneedle]

Ahh, this one...

Yeah, exactly, I have the same reaction, and outburst in post.

That's why I never can get Thalia as a character like, girl, what?

And this ‘Hermes love’ my ass. Hey, Rick heard anything about the different way to express love and if person that you love don't know about that = you don't love him.

Cause he's simply has no idea about that. So Hermes can take his love and shove it up his ass.

Sorry, personal crap.

*SWEARING & YAPPING AHEAD. EVERYTHING STATED HERE IS MY OBJECTIVE OPINION AND IN NO WAY MEANT TO REFLECT THE OBJECTIVE TRUTH*

Hi yeah I just started chapter 14 and- am I the only one who sort of HATES how Thalia's being handled? And also Percy to some degree? Like- Thalia and Percy had just had this a conversation about Luke and ngl? Thalia sounded like such a selfish and entitled BITCH like!? The way she talked about "Luke's bad decisions" and that "they all have tough things to deal with" !? JUST NO! YK WHAT THALIA!? FUCK YOU! Like is she for real here? Really!? REALLY!? Like I get that Thalia is angry at Luke, and that the guy did some stupid and bad stuff but- TO ACT SO APATHETIC TO IT ALL!? LIKE HE'S ACTING UNREASONABLE OR SOMETHING!?

This isn't solely "Luke's just being a brat about something we all had to deal with". Luke's mother went INSANE. He was stuck with a mom having MENTAL FITS TO THE POINT OF HIM HAVING TO HIDE IN CLOSETS. The boy had to run away and live on the streets ALONE.

He had ZERO SUPPORT SYSTEMS IN PLACE.

For the love of GOD Thalia! Way to show you have the empathy of a STONE. And that guy was supposed to be your friend!? Not going to lie Thalia doesn't feel like someone who knows Luke in this book, even if she way mad at him. AND THEN THE COMMENT ABOUT HIM SUPPOSEDLY BEING AT FAULT FOR THEM NOT GETTING TO CAMP IN TIME 'CAUSE OF "PICKING FIGHTS WITH MONSTERS" LIKE??????? Like is the author for real right now? THAT'S what the consense is????? Last time I checked monsters were a bunch of blood thirsty LITTERAL GOD DAMN MONSTERS whose number 1 hobby is hunting and killing demigods. EVERYONE ELSE litteraly fights them ALL THE TIME.

BUT WHEN LUKE DOES IT IT'S SUDDENLY BAD!? THE FUCK???

And then the way she PHRASED it!? "Picking fights" implies that LUKE was the one who started the confrontation when i know DAMN WELL he didn't. Those were MONSTERS, they are KNOWN FOR ATTACKING DEMIGODS. BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO LUKE IS AT FAULT FOR THE FIGHT FOR SOME REASON! NOT THE BLOODTHIRSTY CREATUREAKNOWN FOR ATTACKING DEMIGODS!?

AND THEN THALIA ALSO SEEMS TO FORGET THE WONDERFUL FACT THAT LUKE WAS LIKE- UNDER 14 STILL WHEN ALL THAT WENT DOWN! That boy was a CHILD.

But I guess defending yourself is bad now! Sorry dude you heared Thalia, you should have just laid belly up and let yourself get killed^ Ands then that stupid ass line about Hermes loving Luke as if somehow made up for something????? LIKE BE SO FOR REAL THALIA WE BOTH FUCKING KNOW THAT HERMES "LOVING LUKE" DOESN'T MEAN JACK SHIT. I DON'T CARE HOW MUCH HE LOVED HIM HE STILL WAS A SHITTY ASS FATHER WHO DID FUCK ALL FOR HIS KID.

And now before anyone comes at me about this. I do not give a CRAP about that rule Hermes mentioned of gods not being allowed to meddle with mortal affairs because A) YOU GUYS ALREADY FUCK MORTALS TO PRODUCE CHILDREN WITH THEM!? THE FUCK YOU MEAN YOU "AREN'T ALLOWED TO MEDDLE WITH MORTALS" AND

B) LUKE WASN'T EVEN A FUCKING MORTAL YOU DIPSHIT!? HE WAS A DEMIGOD! A CHILD DEMIGOD AT THAT!? UR A MOTHERFUCKING GOD WE BOTH FUCKING KNOW YOU COULD HAVE DONE ATLEAST SOMETHING. DON'T HIDE BEHIND SOME STUPID ALL RULES THAT ALREADY SOUND LIKE EXCUSES WHEN THEY DON'T EVEN FUCKING APPLY IN THAT SITUATION

I swear to the heavens above the way people act like it was SUCH a surprise that Luke went bad are a bunch of fucking clowns, No wonder did the guy start a war WHEN THAT WAS HIS MOTHERFUCKING SITUATION. And then GOOD GOD THE COMMENT PERCY MADE WHEN HE MET ETHAN UNDER THAT TRUCE!? WHERE HE MENTALLY CALLED KIDS OF MINOR GODS UNIMPORTANT!?

WHAT A FUCKING DICK!?

Say what you want but it takes BALLS to first be mad at them for switching sides and then pull a line like THAT.💀 Percy needs to be HUMBELED real fucking quick omfg, and Thalia too. "Luke's old friend" my ass, I'm just gonna assume she was used as the authors mouth piece here since she was handeled MUCH better in TTC. God that just made me furious, especially Percy's hypocrecy concerning minor gods. (Hopefully I understood or misheared something at that part, otherwise Percy would just be a straight up biggot.) Way to get too deep into something, please don't spoil me. Thanks.

[lookingthroughmirrors]

There are people who think Annabeth is very powerful because she is the leader of the seven. What do you think about this? Is Annabeth really the leader of the seven and she is very powerful because she has "the control"?

I haven’t read much of the books of the heroes of Olympus series, but I think Annabeth as a character has always stayed the same in the fact that she has always had a superiority complex, to the point where it’s her fatal flaw, and I don’t think it’s discussed enough.

I suppose I think about it the same way I think about people saying that Annabeth was the leader between her, Percy and Grover. What it really was, was that Annabeth couldn’t be wrong and as you said, ‘have control’. Something I am familiar with from HOO is the scene between P*rcabeth and Akhlys, and I think it’s a very clear representation of Annabeths character, particularly her reaction to the events of the scene. She is scared because she doesn’t have control. It’s all but confirmed when she says “some things aren’t meant to be controlled” which then leads to a Percy spiral and him passively thinking about suicide, which, is its own entire thing but I think it’s very relevant when talking about Annabeth. Particularly because it all comes back to control.

I truly believe Annabeth is only viewed as a leader because she likes to have control, and her superiority complex that she’s automatically better because she’s a daughter of Athena, which again, is shown entirely from her introduction in the first book, and is pretty central to her character as a whole. I think Percy and Jason probably acted the most like the leader, and I kinda feel like Annabeths role is pretty interchangeable. Personally, I think bringing Thalia back to be part of the seven would’ve been more impactful. Especially because when you look at the quests the OG trio went on, Annabeth doesn’t really do anything in particular that means they would’ve failed had she not been there. Which is why I also don’t think Percy gets enough credit for the role he played in his own quests.

Every single member of the seven had better, more interesting and are factually more powerful than Annabeth. They did not need Annabeth there to do that quest, and I think that really Jason and Percy acted more like leaders, both of which have also been leaders in the past and have more experience (Jason through the legion and Percy through TLO, since he led all of camp halfblood against the titan army. Percy did, not Annabeth, Percy did but that’s besides the point). I think Annabeth is simply elevated because she’s a fan favourite, not because she is a leader or anything. And I don’t mind Annabeths character, if her flaws are addressed.

So no I don’t think Annabeth is overly powerful, and I think the only reason she’s seen as the leader of the seven is because she’s the only one who cares about being seen as leader, in comparison to the others to an extent. I really think it was more that nobody had the energy to fight her on it, then her being the true leader.

I hope this answers your question! Also feel free to ask more I love getting these, it’s exciting!!

[punkeropercyjackson]

Luke Castellan is not queer-coded,i think you just hate black women

[perseas-wellyboots]

The Luke Castellan problem in PJO books and Fandom

I just finished rereading the pjo series for the dozenth time and I have so many thoughts about Luke and how the fandom woobified him.

Like no Luke did not have the right idea and executed it in the wrong way. He wasn't a misguided victim, although there is no doubt Kronos manipulated him. But him being manipulated does not absolve him of his wrongdoings. Hurt people can still hurt people, you can be abused and still become an abuser.

Most of Fandom's idea of Luke being a 'hero' because he did the right thing in the end is extremely doozy like ok he killed himself to stop Kronos but that does not absolve him the blame of killing innocent people.

While Luke's main goal was the destruction of Gods, that was not because he wanted the demigods to have better lives. He actively killed demigods.

In the Sea of Monsters, when Percy, Annabeth and Tyson snuck into Princess Andromeda; they saw 12 year olds being trained how to kill a 'dummy in camp half blood tshirts'. He was actively exploiting children and manipulating them into killing other children and saw nothing wrong with it.

He only considered deflecting from Kronos when he found out that he was going to be possessed by him.

He only worked and cared for him, he was so lost into power and revenge that HE became a monster.

"Oh but he cared for Thalia and Annabeth!!" I'll get into that later too

I think Luke's fatal flaw contrary to the opinion of fandom is The Urge to Prove Himself.

He had one conversation with Hermes which made him angry and bitter and Thalia even notes that after that conversation Luke got into more and more fights with monsters like he had something to prove which Annabeth didnt seem to see as a problem since he was her hero. They got into more skirmishes because of his recklessness, fighting more monsters since Luke wanted to pick a fight with each one he came across.

(Conversation from PJO, The Last Olympian)

His fatal flaw being to Prove Himself would explain why he took the failure of his quest so hard that the night he returned from the quest was the same night Kronos started speaking to him for the first time. It didn't help that when he returned from his failed quest, the campers treated him with pity.

He wanted to pull Olympus down stone by stone because He failed his quest that he didn't want to do because it was already done by Hercules once. 🥴

His endgame has nothing to do with wanting to help ANYBODY. He wanted to take down gods because he had a grudge against them and wanted to Prove that he could do it. Everything else comes secondary if it fits his agenda.

This is one of the reasons why it bothers me so much when people say that Luke had the right idea or that Percy would have joined Kronos if Sally had died like you fundamentally misunderstood the character of Percy if you think he would have joined Kronos.

He talks about "driving humanity back into caves, all except the strongest - who would serve him" THIS IS LITERALLY FASCISM???

(According to Merriam-Webster, Fascism is a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression)

Now onto the topic of Thalia, Annabeth and Luke

First of all, I absolutely hate that 'Thalia and Luke had a thing before she got turned into a tree bit' because Thalia was 12 and Luke was 14 when they met and Thalia was 15 and Luke was 20-21ish when they meet again in TTC ugh hate that.

Now TTC, where to begin, here I used to believe Luke had already bathed in river Styx as there are some narrations where Percy notes that Luke looked worse and like his scar was reopened and would certainly explain how he survived the cliff fall but on my rereading I realised that Thalia and Luke fought when Percy was holding the sky and Thalia injured Luke so nvm then.

It is however in this book that Luke began to realise Kronos's plan for him as it is implied by the General and he starts to fear for his life.

Mind you, what did Luke think would happen if Thalia did agree to join Kronos when he knew Kronos was looking for a host of body...

Luke is many things, he is cunning, manipulative, a great swordsman but what he is not is stupid. If Thalia would have agreed then Kronos would have used Thalia as a vessel 😬

And oh boy the can of worms that is Luke and Annabeth. I've seen many Luke fans/apologists deny that there is no canon evidence of Luke being romantically interested in Annabeth BUT THERE IS?? they refuse to believe and call Annabeth an unreliable narrator because otherwise their uwu white boy would be a Pedophile. Even if he wasn't a Pedo, he manipulated Annabeth so many times to make her sympathise with her and use her emotions against her.

(excerpts from various books: TLO, TLO, BoTL, MoA annabeth's pov)

^ Annabeth was 15 almost 16 or already 16 I believe when Luke asked her to run away with him in a romantic sense and he was 21-22.

also another evidence adding to the theory of his fatal flaw having proving himself.

Now, onto the topic of CHB and Luke:

Luke being hesitant to attack camp half blood in BotL has less to do with him suddenly growing a spine (as some fans suggest) and more to do with the inevitable possession.

When Kronos informs that he will himself lead the attack, Luke advises to use Hyperion instead because he knows for Kronos to attack it in person, he would finally possess Luke.

(first one is from TTC, the other two from BoTL)

One of the last things I wanna talk about is Silena Beauregard & Luke and Luke's portrayal in the new Percy Jackson series:

Luke was 17 when Kronos started speaking to him and 19 when he left the camp. Silena was 17-18 when she died which makes her 13-14 when Luke left the camp in TLT and 11-12 when Kronos first started talking to him. Adult Luke charmed an underage girl, and promised her that she was helping the demigods and then when she tried to stop, he started blackmailing her. [excerpts from TLO]

According to the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children UK, Grooming is when someone builds a relationship, trust and emotional connection with a child or young person so they can manipulate, exploit and abuse them. The relationship a groomer builds can take different forms. This could be: a romantic relationship, as a mentor, an authority figure, a dominant and persistent figure. They might use blackmail to make a child feel guilt and shame or introduce the idea of 'secrets' to control, frighten and intimidate.

So canonically, Book!Luke is a fascist groomer pedophile.

Now on the new Disney+ Percy Jackson show, it seems that Rick Riordan is subtly rewriting the character of Luke and removing the more problematic aspect of him (pedophile and grooming). Let me explain why I think that:

Even though in TLT the book, Luke describes Annabeth as his little sister we know how well that lasted but I don't think they are keeping Annabeth's crush on him on the show from what I've seen (though I could be wrong).

Secondly, the casting of Dior Goodjohn as Clarisse puts Clarisse on the same age range as Luke, maybe a year or two younger but in the first book Clarisse was 13-14 and she was 17 in TLO, so they have aged her up. It is my assumption that they will also age Silena by casting a 17-19 yr old actress as her.

And they have made Luke far more sympathetic in the show than the books (him not calling a hellhound during capture the flag and no pit scorpions in the finale), but we wouldn't know how sympathetic or villainous they are making him until season 2 comes out. Charlie Bushnell gives an excellent performance imo

Though this again reflects the double standards it comes to PJO, they have given much grace and praise for the changes made to Luke's character and little to no complaint for ageing up Clarisse but the hate Walker and especially Leah are given is so cruel. Leah has been so much racially targeted though I think she's an excellent Annabeth, just something to think about.

Also, before I forget-

We don't give enough flack to Rick Riordan for writing two weird age dynamics without recognising as grooming and pedophilic nature. (Lukabeth and Caleo/Capercy)

The characters are never made to realise (especially Annabeth) that an older person having feelings for them as a minor is not a normal behaviour.

Especially in regards to Calypso who may take the form of a 15 year old but is actually more than 4612 (according to the riordan wiki) and her having a crush on 14 year old Percy and 15-16 yr old Leo Valdez, not to mention how rudely she treated Leo. Also her cursing Annabeth because Percy left her. Not only is it plain nasty but she's never called out. Its actually so disgusting🤕.

Anyways this turned into a long rant but I would love to read your opinions, especially on Luke's fatal flaw.

I know for some people it may seem like I'm too hard on him but this is just my opinion.

IMO I have no problem if you like a morally bad or gray person, an antihero or a villain as long as their bad deeds aren't swept under the rug and pretend they never happened or glorify their good deeds.

I actually think villian's bad things make them more interesting.

Luke is an antagonist and a villain of the PJO series and a part of being a villain is that some people are going to hate you and that's ok.

Me personally, I was never a fan of his and that's ok.

I know some people are going to bring up the fact that Percy in MoA sympathises but the PJO characters are complicated and Luke was very skilled at making others think of his reason to destroy the Gods the way they would sympathise the most and we see that multiple times.

[cynthiav06]

Annabeth stans and Percabeth shippers are talking about how ooc Annabeth is in WOTTG with her thinking Percy is stupid as if she hasn't constantly made fun of Percy's intelligence since the very beginning. As if she doesn't do it in every book, multiple times. Rick's characterization of Annabeth isn't changing, people are finally just growing up and realizing their fave ship when they were 12 isn't healthy. But instead of actually acknowledging that it's a bad ship they just blame the author.

Warnings: This is going to be a rant; bear with me. People from the "take everything as a personal offense" group stop reading. Will give us both the luxury of a peaceful mind.

It's easier to blame Rick, I think, given his series of shit decisions. The Wrath of a Triple Goddess is a complete abomination, and so is Chalice of the Gods in many ways. But at least it has helped readers understand the glaring flaws of Percabeth as a ship. How Percy's character is butchered to hype up Annabeth.

And I am completely exhausted of trying to get any of them to think rationally and in an unbiased manner. I can't make a willfully blind individual see sense after all.

But yeah, Annabeth has many, and I mean many character flaws throughout the series. The number of times I have made a post on Annabeth's flaws or even why Percabeth is incompatible.... At this point, I believe open-minded and careful readers are going to see and make their own conclusions, and the blind shippers will keep doing their own thing. This , I think, was my most recent post and will probably be one of my last ones on a similar topic. Unless I get newer asks that have some different viewpoints that I can actually explore cause, all has been said so far, I think.

I had a feeling that things would get better as they got older, more mature, you know, an Annabeth character arc of some sort. Maybe exploring the positive and negative nuances of Percabeth or even Percy's suicidal thoughts, non existent self esteem and how Annabeth has been unknowingly feeding into those.

She is one of the more iconic characters to people even outside the fandom. One from a very, very , and exclusive pool of actually strong female characters and the way her character is devolving isn't helping anything.

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All of Riordan's characters have such high potential, and the amount of plots he could explore is staggering, and yet he still dishes out the same generic plot again and again. He is in it for the money now, has been for a while, and so there's no hope there.

This might be a very hot take, but I think romance ruined the series. Rick kept slapping romantic relationships on every character as if that would suddenly make things better. Give them a relationship rather than explore their trauma. I guess it's the easier of the two.

But seriously, Caleo? Jiper? Solangelo ? (I can see the hate comments already). Whatever he was doing with Reyna, but at least she wasn't completely butchered.

Rick's problem is that he keeps giving more importance to romantic relationships and makes that the entire personality of a character.

He butchered Percy, even Jason at times, Leo bloody Valdez and Nico more prominently.

The way Percy and Nico's very deep and volatile bond and heavily dynamic relationship was butchered and distorted to feed into Solangelo and Percabeth, and I can't possibly understate how highly that's been going on.

Then Luke and Thalia's relationship was completely butchered for no absolute reason. I have no idea why. They were in love or at least had romantic feelings for each other, and Thalia just woke up and wanted to kill him? He literally gave all the angst to Annabeth even though Thalia had known him longer, and they had a more nuanced bond.

Jason's relationship with Camp Jupiter individuals was completely scrapped, his and Reyna's dynamic completely watered down, or even his and Leo's great friendship discarded all for Jiper or whatever else was shoved at him.

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As opposed to this whole shit show, I loved the relationships in the Magnus Chase series and Kane Chronicles. That was good stuff. Both character relationships and romantic ones even though I am pretty sure he got a lot of diverse representation wrong or so I have read recently.

Then there's the stupid, blind, bigot part of the fandom that just can't help themselves. I mean dumb Percy takes, Annabeth stans ruining Percy's character arcs and overinflating Annabeth's character, which in turn made Rick do the same.Then the boring Jason thing? What the hell was that? It's like everyone missed the point of why Jason is the way he is. I am going to make a post on that soon, but seriously, the shit that's been going on.

Then the shippers. Solangelo stans and Percabeth stans. They have single handedly ruined the ships for me with their distorted ideas of character dynamics. And their blatant and brutal hate against other Percy or Nico ships is just ridiculous and heavily toxic.

It's a fandom, not a monopoly. Everyone can have their own little thing as long as you don't meddle in someone else's own thing. Let everyone enjoy their own thing.

And for all our sakes, at this point, just pick your own version of canon. Choose which books to stop at. Trust me, it's less frustrating that way.