#anti sjm: worldbuilding

[kataraavatara]

hey guys did rhysand own slaves. don’t be angry this is a serious question. like i know the inner circle/Night Court was on the mortal side of the war but what exactly was going on in the 28ish years beforehand. because the books as far as i remember seems to imply that fae owning humans was pretty ubiquitous across all of prythian, but Night joining the mortals seems to indicate they were anti slavery, so does this mean they freed their slaves previously or only freed them once the war broke out in solidarity? I don’t have definite answers but will say that Rhysand’s weird centrist approach to the human fae conflict doesn’t give me a good feeling.

[bayonettesque]

i have a really big issue with the priestess library because the idea we’re supposed to have of it vs the problems that are alarmingly obvious once you examine the concept even slightly are like… sooo different it’s scary. sjm clearly intended for it to be rhysand’s woke king abuse survivor utopia except when you think about it, it’s an isolated camp for heavily traumatised women to live with zero programs in place to overcome their trauma or work towards returning to the outside world— instead, they swear an oath to provide labor for rhys (presumably without pay, because what and where would they spend it?) and be bound to a religious order they don’t really have room to question or leave because defecting from the religion would lead to obvious social isolation and exclusion. it’s an almost cultish setup because like… imagine if a priestess wanted to leave— she has nothing, no family, money, accomodations, or familiarity with the “outside world”. leaving means departing from everything you know, likely to never return, not having learnt to defend yourself or cope with your severe trauma. 

the excuse that “things work differently for the fae” doesn’t exist here because acosf gives us a perfect case study of how these priestesses are quintessentially the same as an average real human woman, wherein yoga, meditation, doing some exercise, getting fresh air, and hanging out with your girlies is enough to apparently re-integrate you into the real world via GWYN and all the other priestesses. WHY is this apparently the first time in like 500 years the powers-that-be have considered a program to rehabilitate the priestesses and give them their own power??? (well. it was NESTA’S idea lmfao the ic would never do that on their own) if sjm wanted this priestess library to actually be the ethical feminist fantasy she thinks it is, couldn’t it have been that the library is supposed to be a transitional place where the ultimate goal is to heal and leave to live a fulfilling, independent, healthy life?? if rhys were the villain this would so easily be a “he keeps traumatised women as slaves to work in his isolated library camp” it’s not even funny holy shit

[lainalit]

So tiktok and also goodreads recommended me acotar to read because I usually really like Fantasy with a good portion of romance. But I'm currently on acowar and I think one of the reasons why I didn't like the series as much as others online is that the worldbuilding is probably one of the worst I've read in quite some time.

Like every time I try to understand anything in this world, it is either a) retconned b) contradictory, or c) doesn't make much sense.

For example, in one chapter, we learn that High Lords are chosen by a godlike figure, and apparently High ladies don't exist because of this,so it's like godlike sexism, but then Feyre becomes High Lady, and we should believe she is equally as powerful as Rhysand, so either Rhysand lied to her and she only thinks she has any power over the night court or everybody can technically become High Lord/ High Lady but why established the rule that they are chosen in the first place?????

Another example would be the whole Court of nightmare thing, so we know that Mor comes from the CoN and everybody there is awful, cruel and evil, but then Mor talks about her cousin, who are in seemingly in abusive marriages, and there are also probably children there too, so either a) the abused women/children are also evil or b) abused women/children deserve to be there for reasons...

I'm usually not so nitpicky about worldbuilding, but the world in acotar is so black and white, like there's no nuance or even more explanation given. Instead, we get feyre painting, training with sexy guys, or having thoughts about how hot Rhysand is....

[bookishfeylin]

People LEGITIMATELY believe that no one could possibly be harmed or killed during the toppling of a government on the brink of invasion…

What are the Feysand stans on??????

[feyres-divorce-lawyer]

the day this fandom stops treating questioning and disagreeing with the author as something audacious is the day i shall know peace

[theothergal]

One of my pet peeves, when It comes to fantasy books Is lazy costume design (I don't know how else define this) .

Basically, in every mainstream, sjm-esque fantasy, the female characters always wear Sexy Gowns™ that are basically glorified prom dresses and they ALWAYS have beach waves even thought the world Is medieval inspired or something like that, and the male characters always wear some Basic Tunics or glorified tuxedos with random embellishments to make them look more fantasy-like.

Where Is your creativity? Historical fashion Is so fun and interesting! So many things you could take inspiration from and you still choose to put you characters in Pinterest gowns?

Where are the kirtles, the veils, the complicated hairstyles, the COLORFUL wedding dresses, the cool jewelry, the fine embroidery?

Hell, even in historical fantasy like Kingdom of the Wicked (I hated It) the MC wears clothes that are waaay too modern for a sicilian girl living in the 19th century (I made a post showing actual historical gowns worn by sicilian women, since I'm sicilian as well).

And also, let's ban white wedding dresses from fantasy/period drama from now on, ok? Queen Victoria can't haunt US forever.

[flavia8]

Look. I don't like SJM Books. At all. I read Throne of Glass and A Court of Thorns and Roses years apart, way in the past and disliked them both. I know vaguely what happens in each series bc Rant reviews are fun. But I must say. I'm pro Nesta, forever and always. She's the only person I respect in that Bitch of a series (Acotar) and if she wants to murder everyone I'm all for it. Whatever acts of "Evil" or Bitchiness I hope she goes all in. If she wants to leave and live a secluded peaceful life, Away from everyone I will be cheering wholeheartedly. Whatever she does.

[goldenspringmornings]

sooooo excited for this fic to get to a place i'm comfortable actually posting it (im notoriously bad a finishing fic unfortunately) because i wanna talk about my illyrian worldbuilding😭

[kataraavatara]

i know i said i’d shut up about acotar but i’ve never seen a fantasy society so primed for a populist revolution as the night court. all the wealthy merchants and artists are from one single city while a disenfranchised rural population is expected to provide the armies and die for them without seeing any of that wealth? not to mention the fact that the wealthy city elite don’t have to go to war? “oh nooo our greatest threat is koschei the deathless sorcerererrrr” your greatest threat is your citizens discovering class consciousness.

[aho-dapa]

another nitpick but I don't understand why Feyre's village operates on coins and money

Yeah, she tells the mercenary that she won't get coin for her services, but that's because the village is too poor

Why don't they barter or trade services??

Again, this also irritates me with the cabin years situation, coin and jewels was typically only really meant for the wealthy because they could use that as a form of currency

But what would selling pelts in the market for coin even be truly worth it when Feyre could have just made Andras's coat into fur boots that she wanted??

These books are honestly horrible with everything it's trying to do fr

[hunnyy-bunnyyy]

So, I'm writing an aCoTaR fic and I've been going back through the series to piece together canon worldbuilding because I don't wanna write. I'm gonna post my general half-canon worldbuilding so I don't have to make another folder on Reedsy.

Starting with the outside of House of Wind, as described in the beginning of Silver Flames.

". . . [referring to the House of Wind] the red-stoned palace built into the side of the flat-topped mountain itself." - A Court of Silver Flames

So, to start out, the HoW is built into the mountain. The mountain itself is flat at the top. I'm not super sure about square footage of the flat top; but, on a scale of Mount Roraima to Mount Asgard, I'm gonna say it's a lot closer to Mount Asgard. (Both pictured below)

[Pictured below: Mount Roraima]

[Pictured below: Mount Asgard]

I haven't gotten to the part where the priestesses train, so I can't pull quotes; but, if I remember correctly, they train on the roof of the HoW. For simplicity's sake, I'm going to assume that the roof of the HoW is level with the flat top.

". . . Spiral stairs. Each a foot high. Ten thousand steps. . ." - A Court of Silver Flames

Let's say that this staircase starts at the bottom floor of the House of Wind, and that the library where the priestesses reside isn't counted as part of the manor. Then, the mountain is 10,000 feet from Velaris level to the first floor of the HoW.

In Mist and Fury, Feyre describes the rooms she stays in as large and open -- an obvious contrast to the rooms in the Spring Court manor. Since all high fae (let's be real: Tolkien elf ripoffs) are taller on average, those ceilings would have to be decently high as well. Let's say: there are five floors, all of the floors have high ceilings, all of those ceilings are the same height, and that height is exactly 13 feet from floor to ceiling. That would mean that the House of Wind is a little over 65 feet tall (the "little over" accounting for the depth of each floor/ceiling).

If all of that is assumed, that would make the mountain where the House of Wind sits around 10,065 feet above the city of Velaris. That is closest in height to Mount San Antonio (aka: Mount Baldy) in California.

[Pictured below: "South face of Mt. San Antonio, seen above Upland, California"]

[veenvss]

Age Comparisons

acotar worldbuilding masterlist | main masterlist

ACOTAR to me has always had so much potential but it was just ruined by its execution. however, I am a grown woman (I'm 19) and I also have free time so I thought, "Huh, why not do it myself?"

Hi.

This is a post on the different groups of people and a comparison on their ageing.

In ACOTAR canon, all groups of people (humans, fae and illyrians) age at the same time and then somehow the fae stop ageing? and just stay young for a long time?

In SJM's other series, TOG, there is a process that fae go through when they reach maturity called "settling" which stops them from aging as quickly, and that was actually explained to us. There's not really anything of the sort in ACOTAR, which, like everything else, sucks. So, as always, I've decided to fuck shit up.

KEY:

--(h) is -- in human years . ie 20(h) is 20 in human years -- (f) is -- in human years . ie 20(f) is 20 in fae years --(o) is -- in the years of another species . ie 20(o) is 20 in the years of another species

COMPARISON

this is essentially a homemade comparison table because I can't code. using the key above, this is the major ages of humans in comparison to equivalent of the other species. i have detailed explanations below.

0(h) : 0(f) : 0(o) 1(h) : 5(f) : 7(o) 5(h) : 25(f) : 35(o) 10(h) : 50(f) : 70(o) 20(h) : 100(f) : 140(o)

21(h) : 135(f) : 149(o) 25(h) : 275(f) : 345(o) 30(h) : 450(f) : 590(o) 40(h) : 800(f) : 1080(o) 50(h) : 1150(f) : 1570(o) 60(h) : 1500(f) : 2060(o)

FAE

fae from birth to maturity (about 20), they age on average around 5x slower than humans. after maturity, they roughly age 35x slower than humans, until they reach about 60 in human years, which is the average lifespan for all longliving creatures*.

OTHER

other species in this count as illyrians or the peregryns or the seraphims. essentially, the other species in the world that we know of that aren't counted as fae.

from birth to maturity (once again, around 20), they age on average around 7x slower than humans. after maturity, they roughly age 49x slower than humans, until they also reach about 60 in human years, which is the average lifespan for all longliving creatures.

: * why is that the average lifespan for all longliving creatures? because i said so, end of story <3

and i realised part way through making this that the way they age is now extra devastating for tarquin my little pookie :((

[bookishfeylin]

I don't know if it's just me, but I find it strange and boring that EVERYONE in Prythian speaks the same language. I can understand creating 8 languages ​​(each court + human) would be intense but at least faeries and humans having different languages ​​could have been interesting. No ?

It truly was SUCH a missed opportunity for worldbuilding. The humans and fae have been separated for 500 years why WOULDN'T their languages be different? Or at least, very distinct dialects?

[feyres-divorce-lawyer]

as a reader being frustrated at how utterly weak sjm’s worldbuilding is, as a writer being happy at the absolute goldmine of possibilities that aren’t canonically refuted.

miss janet never went into depth what feyre’s powers actually are? well now she can drown ppl on dry land and control bodies like a corporalnik. canon cannot tell me i’m wrong because canon is poorly defined

[grimseverity]

Well now I have a NEW thing to be mad about

Tell me why Nesta could change her body to enable some hypothetical pregnancy but not to her human form.

[separatist-apologist]

At this point I just like your posts with just skimming through it because I know your big, mature brain won't let me down with your opinions

And I need people know sjm is NOT a good writer lol. Just because she's famous doesn't mean she's the best one out there. Acotar is a missed opportunity at best. And most people who are hard-core fan of these book thinks these books are perfect and not because sjm keep retconing and changing and forgetting her own goddamn plot so they take everything for what it is. I've seen people criticised Mor and Feyre for leaving some dreamers at CoN and they don't care about them. No babes sjm just forgot about it all fkn together!!!

Okay I have thoughts about this. I'm once again slapping it under a cut just because its long. These are just my thoughts, feel free to disagree

There is nothing wrong, just to be clear, with SJM being a person's favorite writer. I think she is an entertaining writer and I think begrudgingly everyone in this fandom needs to admit that. I think she creates very interesting characters and places that people want to know more about and her writing is very accessible which feels like a burn but I swear isn't.

I don't think she's a bad writer, personally, but I do think she's just not interested in her own details or worlds the way her fans are, and I think this is true across every book series she's written. I think her problem is she writes the way I do- she knows how her stories end, she has a few key scenes in mind, and she figures the rest out as she goes.

This felt pretty evident in TOG, too- you could watch in real-time as her plots changed and she undid things it felt like she'd been building toward. ACOTAR isn't any better in that regard because I GENUINELY do not think she knew what she was doing plotwise when she started the series and it came to her as she went which is why the whole Amarantha things feels so ?????????

Even in TOG, SJM is not interested in the political maneuverings of her characters, the governing process, her political landscape or ANY of the things that a lot of people get frustrated by, to circle to your CoN plot. I think she relies very heavily on "x says they care and I'm telling you they're a good person, so the assumption is they're also a good ruler and we don't need to explore that any further". SJM drops these little pieces of lore like about Mor's cousins or the women of Illyria or whatever and then doesn't do anything with it or even recognize, in my opinion, the conclusions her readers are drawing.

And I think its because to her, she's told you what you need to know. Rhys is a GOOD ruler because the people of Velaris love him AND because she tells us so. Tamlin is a bad ruler because he exacts taxes on his decimated population AND she tells us so. And when people examine those statements, it starts to crumble, in my opinion, which is why I think people get defensive. They don't CARE about the political workings of this world, they just want to read about hot people doing hot people shenanigans.

I do think that going to a SJM book for thoughtful worldbuilding and an interesting magic/political system is a mistake. Having read every series she's ever written, I do not think this is her strong suit and I'm tired of being told I only think so because of internalized misogyny. I think SJM is a good character writer- her characters are compelling, and even anti's typically have a favorite character they wish had been better fleshed out or had been done more with or would be better explored in future books.

This is all over the place- I'm just writing my thoughts as they come to me. Ultimately, I think SJM's books typically don't stand up to heavy scrutiny and that depending on what you're looking for in a book, you're going to come away with different levels of enjoyment. For me, I hadn't read anything fiction in like, six years because I'd been knee deep in academia and it was the first thing I read just for fun and it WAS fun. It IS fun, even now. It's a brain off read. For better or worse, ACOTAR isn't complicated or hard to understand- SJM tells her readers what to think AND feel all the time, so you don't really need to think about any of it.

But when you read other fantasy in her genre, it becomes clear that like...oh. This is just mediocre. In some places it feels like a poor retelling of other stories (TOG has HEAVY LOTR moments, for example) and thoughtless culture stealing that feels offensive in places (CC feels especially bad in this regard given how she's stitched together like, 3-5 different cultures without a good understanding of any of them).

I'm not saying anti's shouldn't still discuss their issues with it. But I will say that if you're looking for a well fleshed out world and a political system that is interesting to read and characters who are consistent and don't bow to the whims of the author and plot, you're probably going to have a hard time with ALL of SJM.