#anti sjm: worldbuilding

[kataraavatara]

hey guys did rhysand own slaves. don’t be angry this is a serious question. like i know the inner circle/Night Court was on the mortal side of the war but what exactly was going on in the 28ish years beforehand. because the books as far as i remember seems to imply that fae owning humans was pretty ubiquitous across all of prythian, but Night joining the mortals seems to indicate they were anti slavery, so does this mean they freed their slaves previously or only freed them once the war broke out in solidarity? I don’t have definite answers but will say that Rhysand’s weird centrist approach to the human fae conflict doesn’t give me a good feeling.

[bayonettesque]

i have a really big issue with the priestess library because the idea we’re supposed to have of it vs the problems that are alarmingly obvious once you examine the concept even slightly are like… sooo different it’s scary. sjm clearly intended for it to be rhysand’s woke king abuse survivor utopia except when you think about it, it’s an isolated camp for heavily traumatised women to live with zero programs in place to overcome their trauma or work towards returning to the outside world— instead, they swear an oath to provide labor for rhys (presumably without pay, because what and where would they spend it?) and be bound to a religious order they don’t really have room to question or leave because defecting from the religion would lead to obvious social isolation and exclusion. it’s an almost cultish setup because like… imagine if a priestess wanted to leave— she has nothing, no family, money, accomodations, or familiarity with the “outside world”. leaving means departing from everything you know, likely to never return, not having learnt to defend yourself or cope with your severe trauma. 

the excuse that “things work differently for the fae” doesn’t exist here because acosf gives us a perfect case study of how these priestesses are quintessentially the same as an average real human woman, wherein yoga, meditation, doing some exercise, getting fresh air, and hanging out with your girlies is enough to apparently re-integrate you into the real world via GWYN and all the other priestesses. WHY is this apparently the first time in like 500 years the powers-that-be have considered a program to rehabilitate the priestesses and give them their own power??? (well. it was NESTA’S idea lmfao the ic would never do that on their own) if sjm wanted this priestess library to actually be the ethical feminist fantasy she thinks it is, couldn’t it have been that the library is supposed to be a transitional place where the ultimate goal is to heal and leave to live a fulfilling, independent, healthy life?? if rhys were the villain this would so easily be a “he keeps traumatised women as slaves to work in his isolated library camp” it’s not even funny holy shit

[lainalit]

So tiktok and also goodreads recommended me acotar to read because I usually really like Fantasy with a good portion of romance. But I'm currently on acowar and I think one of the reasons why I didn't like the series as much as others online is that the worldbuilding is probably one of the worst I've read in quite some time.

Like every time I try to understand anything in this world, it is either a) retconned b) contradictory, or c) doesn't make much sense.

For example, in one chapter, we learn that High Lords are chosen by a godlike figure, and apparently High ladies don't exist because of this,so it's like godlike sexism, but then Feyre becomes High Lady, and we should believe she is equally as powerful as Rhysand, so either Rhysand lied to her and she only thinks she has any power over the night court or everybody can technically become High Lord/ High Lady but why established the rule that they are chosen in the first place?????

Another example would be the whole Court of nightmare thing, so we know that Mor comes from the CoN and everybody there is awful, cruel and evil, but then Mor talks about her cousin, who are in seemingly in abusive marriages, and there are also probably children there too, so either a) the abused women/children are also evil or b) abused women/children deserve to be there for reasons...

I'm usually not so nitpicky about worldbuilding, but the world in acotar is so black and white, like there's no nuance or even more explanation given. Instead, we get feyre painting, training with sexy guys, or having thoughts about how hot Rhysand is....

[bookishfeylin]

People LEGITIMATELY believe that no one could possibly be harmed or killed during the toppling of a government on the brink of invasion…

What are the Feysand stans on??????

[feyres-divorce-lawyer]

the day this fandom stops treating questioning and disagreeing with the author as something audacious is the day i shall know peace

[northern-passage]

I came across the character Branwen* in my most recent play-through and was curious if she's supposed to be Inuit or not? It was just a bit unclear since she has a chin-stripe tattoo, a Welsh name, and comes from Gael (which I'm under the impression is supposed to be Norse inspired?) Neither the Welsh/Celts or Norse had tattoos like these and the imagery of such comes from the appropriation of Inuit kakiniit. It's unfortunately common, especially in the fantasy genre, think Yasha from Critical Role, and I wouldn't really blame you for not yet knowing better. Misguided or not, it's very damaging since these tattoos are a closed practice, and Inuit have asked us not to use them for non-indigenous characters. Some other cultures have similar tattoos, but these are specifically what are appropriated from in the "Norse aesthetic".

This could be a great opportunity to represent a community that's regularly misrepresentationed and appropriated from in the genre, though! I don't believe you had any ill intentions, if this is a mistake you've made, since you've done really well about a lot of other things so far.

Also, I've done a lot of research on the topic for my own world building and I can try to help if you have any questions!

Here's a list of Inuk creators and artists from my own following (on TikTok specifically):

kadlun

willow.allen

notdayle

shinanova

And fairy.gothparent (not indigenous) has some really educational content on the subject also!

I'm sorry I've misread or misinterpreted anything, and I hope none of this came off as aggressive! I'm just genuinely curious and want to help others do better!

hi :-) no worries, you are not aggressive at all. Branwen is not meant to be Inuit, nor is she meant to be Welsh or Norse. Gael and Adrania are just Fantasy Lands with their own lore & culture-- but with that being said, i am fully aware that the setting for TNP is very much giving medieval Europe, hahahaha. regardless, when i choose names they are mainly just because i like them, so i wouldn't put too much stock in them when reading.

same thing when i designed Branwen, the tattoo was mostly for the aesthetic and because i liked it. i was aware of a few different types of indigenous tattoos (like the Māori tāmoko as well as the Inuit kakiniit) at the time i chose the thick, solid line because i was purposefully trying to avoid conflating it directly with those indigenous tattoos. you're the first person to point this out to me and i appreciate it and it has made me reevaluate my decision to give her such a distinct tattoo. i wanted tattoos to be a big part of Gaelish culture & planned for them to be made with heavy lines & geometry, but in the end a lot of the designs are all over the place (Merry's are way more modern due to basing some of the designs around nautical/sailor tattoos with only a few geometric designs, while Lea's are strictly geometric runes meant for their alchemy)

i absolutely want to avoid misrepresenting these tattoos, especially since it was never my intention for this character to be interpreted as a part of any of the mentioned indigenous groups. this is a good reminder for myself that my work does not exist in a vacuum and regardless of my intentions, the names i choose & the designs i make still reflect my own personal biases and have implications outside of my story.

i appreciate you messaging me and sharing resources. and i always want to encourage people to do so! especially because in my worldbuilding for Gael and Adrania i am pulling inspiration from a lot of different places and a lot of other fantasy media. i've always intended for Adrania to be a "melting pot," with a lot of different influences as in-game cultures converge around their ports & trade routes, but that can also lead to me unintentionally harming real world groups & cultures in my interpretations. as much as i want to "build from scratch" it's just not possible, i will always be influenced by the society i live in, hence me including the tattoo to begin with because you're right, i have seen similar designs in other fantasy media & just didn't think much about it.

going forward i'll most likely just remove that tattoo from Branwen's design, and maybe give her a neck tattoo instead 🤔 just something different to distinguish it from those indigenous designs.

[theothergal]

One of my pet peeves, when It comes to fantasy books Is lazy costume design (I don't know how else define this) .

Basically, in every mainstream, sjm-esque fantasy, the female characters always wear Sexy Gowns™ that are basically glorified prom dresses and they ALWAYS have beach waves even thought the world Is medieval inspired or something like that, and the male characters always wear some Basic Tunics or glorified tuxedos with random embellishments to make them look more fantasy-like.

Where Is your creativity? Historical fashion Is so fun and interesting! So many things you could take inspiration from and you still choose to put you characters in Pinterest gowns?

Where are the kirtles, the veils, the complicated hairstyles, the COLORFUL wedding dresses, the cool jewelry, the fine embroidery?

Hell, even in historical fantasy like Kingdom of the Wicked (I hated It) the MC wears clothes that are waaay too modern for a sicilian girl living in the 19th century (I made a post showing actual historical gowns worn by sicilian women, since I'm sicilian as well).

And also, let's ban white wedding dresses from fantasy/period drama from now on, ok? Queen Victoria can't haunt US forever.

[flavia8]

Look. I don't like SJM Books. At all. I read Throne of Glass and A Court of Thorns and Roses years apart, way in the past and disliked them both. I know vaguely what happens in each series bc Rant reviews are fun. But I must say. I'm pro Nesta, forever and always. She's the only person I respect in that Bitch of a series (Acotar) and if she wants to murder everyone I'm all for it. Whatever acts of "Evil" or Bitchiness I hope she goes all in. If she wants to leave and live a secluded peaceful life, Away from everyone I will be cheering wholeheartedly. Whatever she does.

[goldenspringmornings]

sooooo excited for this fic to get to a place i'm comfortable actually posting it (im notoriously bad a finishing fic unfortunately) because i wanna talk about my illyrian worldbuilding😭

[aho-dapa]

another nitpick but I don't understand why Feyre's village operates on coins and money

Yeah, she tells the mercenary that she won't get coin for her services, but that's because the village is too poor

Why don't they barter or trade services??

Again, this also irritates me with the cabin years situation, coin and jewels was typically only really meant for the wealthy because they could use that as a form of currency

But what would selling pelts in the market for coin even be truly worth it when Feyre could have just made Andras's coat into fur boots that she wanted??

These books are honestly horrible with everything it's trying to do fr

[kataraavatara]

i know i said i’d shut up about acotar but i’ve never seen a fantasy society so primed for a populist revolution as the night court. all the wealthy merchants and artists are from one single city while a disenfranchised rural population is expected to provide the armies and die for them without seeing any of that wealth? not to mention the fact that the wealthy city elite don’t have to go to war? “oh nooo our greatest threat is koschei the deathless sorcerererrrr” your greatest threat is your citizens discovering class consciousness.

[hunnyy-bunnyyy]

So, I'm writing an aCoTaR fic and I've been going back through the series to piece together canon worldbuilding because I don't wanna write. I'm gonna post my general half-canon worldbuilding so I don't have to make another folder on Reedsy.

Starting with the outside of House of Wind, as described in the beginning of Silver Flames.

". . . [referring to the House of Wind] the red-stoned palace built into the side of the flat-topped mountain itself." - A Court of Silver Flames

So, to start out, the HoW is built into the mountain. The mountain itself is flat at the top. I'm not super sure about square footage of the flat top; but, on a scale of Mount Roraima to Mount Asgard, I'm gonna say it's a lot closer to Mount Asgard. (Both pictured below)

[Pictured below: Mount Roraima]

[Pictured below: Mount Asgard]

I haven't gotten to the part where the priestesses train, so I can't pull quotes; but, if I remember correctly, they train on the roof of the HoW. For simplicity's sake, I'm going to assume that the roof of the HoW is level with the flat top.

". . . Spiral stairs. Each a foot high. Ten thousand steps. . ." - A Court of Silver Flames

Let's say that this staircase starts at the bottom floor of the House of Wind, and that the library where the priestesses reside isn't counted as part of the manor. Then, the mountain is 10,000 feet from Velaris level to the first floor of the HoW.

In Mist and Fury, Feyre describes the rooms she stays in as large and open -- an obvious contrast to the rooms in the Spring Court manor. Since all high fae (let's be real: Tolkien elf ripoffs) are taller on average, those ceilings would have to be decently high as well. Let's say: there are five floors, all of the floors have high ceilings, all of those ceilings are the same height, and that height is exactly 13 feet from floor to ceiling. That would mean that the House of Wind is a little over 65 feet tall (the "little over" accounting for the depth of each floor/ceiling).

If all of that is assumed, that would make the mountain where the House of Wind sits around 10,065 feet above the city of Velaris. That is closest in height to Mount San Antonio (aka: Mount Baldy) in California.

[Pictured below: "South face of Mt. San Antonio, seen above Upland, California"]

[saccharinerose]

Oh another thing, I find it really funny how SJM said “oh yeah, the magic just never chose a woman to be the leader of any of the courts in the entire history of prythian” and then never explained why. So we are just left to assume the magic of the the world itself is misogynistic but it’s ok bc Rhysand gave Feyre an empty title and we should no longer think about it! please stop thinking about it!

like why have the world just inherently be like that when u could’ve made it so when Prythian was founded (bc it had to be founded at some point) and the fae established the Courts system with some kind of magic agreement, they phrased their deal in such a way that only men could be chosen. And then at some point in the books, you could have the characters find a way to rewrite that deal or whatever so women could be chosen by the magic

[toast-com]

So...

Are the Illyrians lesser fae or what? What are they? They obviously aren't High Fae so... what are they?? And, another question: Why didn't SJM explain any of this? She should have.

[bookishfeylin]

I don't know if it's just me, but I find it strange and boring that EVERYONE in Prythian speaks the same language. I can understand creating 8 languages ​​(each court + human) would be intense but at least faeries and humans having different languages ​​could have been interesting. No ?

It truly was SUCH a missed opportunity for worldbuilding. The humans and fae have been separated for 500 years why WOULDN'T their languages be different? Or at least, very distinct dialects?

[feyres-divorce-lawyer]

as a reader being frustrated at how utterly weak sjm’s worldbuilding is, as a writer being happy at the absolute goldmine of possibilities that aren’t canonically refuted.

miss janet never went into depth what feyre’s powers actually are? well now she can drown ppl on dry land and control bodies like a corporalnik. canon cannot tell me i’m wrong because canon is poorly defined