#anti mandoclones

[lieutenant-teach]

Trying Karen Traviss 'Republic Commando' (critical)

I’ve read loads of criticism on Karen Traviss ‘Republic Commando’ books. Despite being weaponized with knowledge of her treatment of Jedi and Mandalorians, decided to read anyway, because clones! Though I’m in the camps of ‘anti-Mandoclones’ and ‘pro-jedi’, and from my previous reading experience I know my whole being protests when I see even an ounce of Jedi-criticism both in books and fics, I still thought – maybe, at least the plot will be interesting? And clones!

Well… I lasted about 10 pages (was reading from an e-book, so it’s hard to tell) of the first novel of the series, ‘Hard contact’.

I’d even ignore anti-Jedi stuff that starts from the very beginning – as if I would believe the Jedi would treat the clones as ‘created for war, so they must be used for war’.

First thing that started to turn me off – the treatment of common clones, ‘regs’. The main characters immediately began to smell disgustingly like The Bad Batch. They have special training, they see each other as ‘family’ – unlike these regular clones! They are even treated poorly by the ‘regs’, poor things! :(

The second – the language. A lot of Mando’a words that are referenced in the end of the book. Thanks to fics, I know several terms, but in next books I scrolled through – whole incomprehensible dialogues in Mando’a! Seriously?! 1st, technically uncomfortable, 2nd – disrespect to the readers.

And the main reason that made me delete all these books – it’s written boringly. Plain boringly. I guess it’s just her journalist-influenced style, but still – one more reason not to read her.

[antianakin]

Listen, there is a difference between "The clones being Mandalorian is a headcanon that works" and "The clones being Mandalorian is the intended canonical reading."

Yes, there's a few extremely minor design choices that, if you are IMMENSELY familiar with Mandalorian Legends content and a very eagle-eyed viewer, seem to indicate a connection between a few of the clones and that identity (although at least one of those design choices is just a symbol for a Mando ship which could just as easily be a connection to that kind of ship rather than anything to do with it being Mando specifically).

But if you do not know these symbols by heart already and aren't specifically looking for it, you'll never notice that connection.

You know what WOULD have shown more of a connection between the clones and being Mando? Having the clones actually SAY SOMETHING about it when they're confronted with canonical Mandalorians. Rex and Cody (and several of their men) spend an entire episode on a Mandalorian ship surrounded by Mandalorians and never make a single mention of it. Rex and the 332nd all go to Mandalore to save it from Maul and there isn't a single indication that anybody involved considers there to be a connection between the clones and Mandalore. As far as Rex and the clones are concerned, this is just another mission and there's far more visual connection to Ahsoka than there is anything Mandalorian. And then Sabine meets Rex, Gregor, and Wolffe on Seelos and spends quite a lot of time working with Rex afterward and there's never any indication of them connecting over a shared Mandalorian identity.

You would think, if the writers wanted there to be a CLEAR OVERT CANONICAL CONNECTION between the clones and the Mandalorians, they'd have taken advantage of these multiple opportunities to do so, but they didn't. These were both shows for CHILDREN, they're not all that subtle when they want you to know something. If the audience was supposed to understand that the clones were Mandalorians, they'd have said so. You can argue that some of this is just because Lucas had Jango's Mandalorian identity stripped in TCW for his own purposes, but that doesn't explain everything in Rebels or TCW season 7 when Lucas was no longer that involved (and Filoni was clearly making changes to how the Mandalorians were being represented anyway, so if he WANTED to make the clones Mandalorian, he could've done so).

Being Mandalorian does not seem to be a specific ethnicity. Jango is played by someone who is Polynesian, but he's the ONLY Mandalorian we ever see with that ethnicity and there seems to be a wide variety of ethnicities among the people who do identify as being Mandalorian. Being Mandalorian appears to be more of a NATIONALITY. You are Mandalorian because you were either born within the Mandalore system yourself or because you are the child (biological or adopted) of a Mandalorian. The clones are neither. They are obviously not born anywhere near the Mandalore system and the only person who might be considered their "father" never acknowledges them as his children (depending on your source, he actually considers them basically chattel and not people at all). So the clones cannot claim Mandalorian heritage through the location of their birth OR through their parentage. Jango is not their father, he has never BEEN their father, and he would probably vehemently deny being their father if anyone had the ability to ask him about it.

It also feels worth nothing that, while The Mandalorian did re-canonize Jango's own connection to being Mandalorian, they did NOT make Boba a Mandalorian. Din straight up ASKS Boba if he's a Mandalorian and Boba says no. Boba confirms that Jango was a Mandalorian foundling, but he DOES NOT take the identity for himself. He uses it a little to convince Din to let him take the armor back, but that's more about appealing to DIN'S values than it is indicative of Boba's own. To Boba, it's important because it's a connection to his father and because, you know, it's his and it was stolen from him. It's not important for the reasons Sabine seems to lay out when she describes her armor as being a connection to 500 generations of her family or whatever.

So if Boba, who DOES arguably have a claim to consider himself Mandalorian through his connection to Jango, does not actually consider himself a Mando, why would the CLONES automatically be Mandalorian? When they had the opportunity to explicitly make Boba a Mandalorian again, they chose NOT TO, so why would I ever believe that the intended understanding about the clones is that they are all automatically Mandalorian just because they happen to look like Jango?

If you want to headcanon the clones as Mandalorian, go right ahead, nobody is stopping you. But let's not pretend that it's CANON that the clones are all Mandalorian or that we the audience were expected to see them as Mandalorian. It is just as canon to say that they AREN'T Mandalorian and have never felt any connection to being Mandalorian as it is to claim the opposite. And there's a lot more evidence to support the idea that they're not.

[roseaesynstylae]

When it comes to the whole “Mandoclone” thing, my headcanon/opinion is that some clones (SOME) are into Mandalorian culture and consider themselves Mandalorian, but many clones are into various cultures and consider themselves part of them. There are Corellian clones. There are Chandrillan clones. There are clones like Howzer who have been adopted by Twi’leks and consider themselves part of the culture. There are clones who have adopted Jedi beliefs and traditions. There are clones who have adopted pieces of Mandalorian culture (ie, jaig eyes) but aren’t otherwise involved. There are clones who have taken little bits from wherever they’ve been stationed and combined them. There are clones who make their own thing that isn’t really connected to a specific culture. There are clones who are deeply devoted to religions they found when they were on planets like Jedha. There are clones who get culture from other clones and pass it on. Yes, there are Mandalorian clones, but they’re a part of a melting pot whole, not the standard.

[jedi-enthusiasm-blog]

BASIC INFO

I use mostly she/her, but I'm alright with any pronouns.

This is a fandom space only. I'm here to have fun, not to discuss current issues or politics (I do that enough in real life already).

Bigotry is not tolerated. It doesn't have a place in my blog. Being a bigot can and will get you blocked.

No reblogging posts to throw negativity. I'm not here for debate, I'm here to have fun with my silly posts and whoever interacts without being a dick.

I reserve the right to block you and kick you out of my space if you're behaving like an asshole.

I love asks. You can ask me whatever you want. The only thing I request is that you do this off-anon. This is only to prevent more assholes sneaking into my space.

I don't start arguments, fights and debates. I've always found it counterproductive, needlessly-infuriating and a waste of my time. However, I finish them. The block button is my friend and I'm not afraid to use it.

STAR WARS FANDOM

Pro Jedi, if the name of my blog didn't clue you in. Jedi hate will get you blocked faster than you can say "Star Wars".

Anti Sith, like any reasonable person with media literacy. They're space nazis, social darwinists, genocidal maniacs who in all their thousands of years of existance have done nothing but try to run tyrannical empires and fail miserably and obsess over the Jedi. The nicest thing I can say about them is that some of them are really fun to watch and have a decent fashion sense. Therefore I am also anti Galactic Empire and First Order, the governments they (try to) run.

Redemption is a good, wonderful thing that when done well enriches a story. Apologism is bad, disgusting and absolutely does nothing but make a story bad and boring. Let villains be villains. Don't try to justify them.

I may as well say this, although I'm sure most of the fandom will have me crucified: Mandalorian/Mando critical. Unlike the Sith, I don't think all of them (or even most of them) are evil and I'm willing to be charitatable to them. I want to LIKE them, but the fandom glorifying them has soured them a lot to me.

Adding to the above point: Anti Mandoclone. The Clones aren't Mandalorian, they are their own people with their own history and experiences. They might have Mandalorian influence (and it's an idea that has merit and potential if executed well), but they are not Mandalorian and I doubt they'd want to be.

Anakin Skywalker critical. I don't hate him, I like him, he's fun to watch/read about and his character is very dear to me. But he's a villain and an asshole and I'm not ashamed to point out that part of his character.

My canon is the PT, the OT, TCW, Rebels and Rogue One. Any other source material is up in the air, and I pick and choose what I like and leave the rest. So if you see me ignoring a part of a book/comic but posting about another, you know why.

Masterposts

My Rambles' Masterpost (pro Jedi, anti Sith, Mandalorian critical…)

The Many Names of Peace Masterpost

Fic recommendation list

[lieutenant-teach]

Wandering around the galaxy, ex-Commander Cody and little Din Djarin meet an unexpected adversary, and Cody learns about a new burden he acquired unknowingly. 2/3 part (1 part), (part 3).

Cody enjoyed the planet Trask - being away from the Core Worlds, it remained unscathed by the Clone Wars; being small, not densely populated and lacking valuable resources, it wasn’t occupied by the Empire that aimed at most important and valuable planets and systems. No matter how much Cody disliked the Outer Rim for its mostly criminal population and their shady occupations, now he was glad to catch some breath in there.

Especially while he had a kid on his hands.

Din turned out to be a not very problematic child, though quite different from the cadets on Kamino. Not physically trained, which is a huge minus when you’re on the run. But, like a cadet, he didn’t complain about lack of comfort and stability in such life, though Cody tried his best to provide him with food better than rations. Regrettably, it required more sallies on the surfaces of various planets, thus it was more dangerous for both of them. Cody shuddered from a mere thought what the Empire would do if they were caught.

Apart from physical comfort, Cody attempted to give at least a little bit of emotional comfort to the kid. At times Din woke up crying, and Cody held him until the boy fell asleep again, exhausting himself from tears. At these moments Cody felt like breaking apart a bit every time, pressing Din to the chest, listening to his occasional whimpering in his sleep. The kid deserved a normal life, not all of this disaster happening to the Galaxy.

He felt both proud at a little brave cadet and bitter at a child forced to grow up too quickly when Din asked to teach him shooting.

They’d spent several days in the town in some kind of a ratty tavern, avoiding unnecessary questions and suspicions, as they easily passed for a father and a son due to similar complexion and hair and eye colour. Cody worried that he would be recognized for his distinct face, but not yet – the locals had never acquainted a Jango Fett clone before, and all the Republican propaganda portrayed troopers only in full armour, a very clever way to erase personalities. Though he continued to pull down the hood when walking the streets – just in case.

When one day they met someone from Cody’s past. Or, more precisely, from Kenobi’s past.

Cody felt someone was watching them. So did Din – the boy was glancing around nervously and squeezing Cody’s hand tighter. Cody lowered another hand near the blaster; if the follower was daring enough, they’d shoot right in the centre of the market brimming with unsuspecting citizens. And then he recognized a face in the crowd, watching him like a hawk. He raised an eyebrow, the person nodded to the street corner nearby, inviting for a talk.

– Where did you take the kid? – she attacked him with a low voice as soon as they turned the angle. Din hid behind Cody at the harshness.

– Hello there, Duchess Kryze, - Cody answered curtly. – I deserted.

– And still wearing their armour? – her hand was hovering over her own blaster, her posture tense as a nexu ready to strike.

– Better something than nothing, - he shrugged. – Why are you here? – He thought with regret that they’d have to leave the planet – if he met Bo-Katan Kryze, an heiress of Mandalore, who knows who else might hang around there.

– Why should I believe you? – she gripped her blaster, ignoring his query. – Who’s to say you don’t want to… - her eyes widened, she even took a step back. – How did you get it?!

– What? – Cody was taken aback, then he moved his free hand that wasn’t covering Din to the hilt of a saber on his belt.

– The Darksaber. How did you get it? – she hissed, her face twisting with anger.

Losing the blaster while fighting off the pirates intending to ransack your ship and sell the kid you take care of into slavery wasn’t fortunate. There were just too many for one man, as tough as Cody was – if not for Din’s shout ‘Cody! There!’ and him throwing something he dug seconds before from the mud. First Cody thought it was some dagger, but when the air hissed and enlightened with a brilliant black blade shining white on the razor-sharp edges and producing threatening buzz – he realized it was something different. Lucky him, he still remembered several lightsaber-wielding lessons General Kenobi gave him back during the war.

The saber was heavier than the General’s, almost non-cooperative, his first swings were clumsy and messy. But Cody knew he had to protect the kid, and with each movement the blade became lighter and lighter.

Still, Cody preferred non-Jedi weapons. So after fighting he disengaged it and clipped to a familiar spot on his belt – again, just in case of an attack. There weren’t many helpful blades conveniently lying around and waiting to be picked up during a skirmish, after all.

– Found it, - he shrugged again, playing nonchalant, mentally working out the ways of retreating.

Bo-Katan squeezed the fists, she was burning with barely controlled rage, though Cody couldn’t understand the reason. He remembered vaguely it was some Mandalorian weapon of historical significance – maybe, that was why she was so unhappy? She wanted a part of her culture back.

– You have no claim to this sword! – Bo-Katan raised her voice, then caught herself at a possibility of attracting unwanted attention of the passers-by and continued a bit softer: - This is a Mandalorian weapon, not designed for such like you! You have no right to wield it!

– I don’t have any ‘claim’, and you’re scaring the kid, - Cody intoned his ‘commander’ voice that some especially impressionable troopers called ‘regal’. Din mumbled ‘I’m not scared’ from behind his back and stepped a bit forward as if ready to confront Bo-Katan by himself. She threw a dirty look at the boy and turned her attention to Cody again, looking at him with thinned lips and narrowed eyes.

– According to an old Mandalorian tradition, whoever wields the Darksaber has the claim to the Mandalorian throne. But only in case of an honest fight.

– Duchess, I never intended to get involved in Mandalorian politics, - Cody felt an unpleasant feeling that despite his wishes he was getting tangled into something quite unsavory. – You can take the saber and overthrow your Governor Saxon or whatever, I’m not a part of it. – He knew this woman wasn’t sharing the peaceful policy of her sister, but frankly (and quite meanly) Cody didn’t give a flying kark about Mandalore. He knew these people had always had civil wars now and then ignited by their biggest ruling clans, and it couldn’t be worse than the Imperial occupation now. He even felt pity for Mandalorian citizens if all they wanted was to live in peace. Although, New Mandalorians were a very fresh change as per info he read, but the peace historically never lasted long on Mandalore.

But also there was one thing that turned almost all the clone troopers off while mentioning Mandalorians.

– I cannot just ‘take it’, - Bo-Katan spat and raised her chin proudly. – A true Mand’Alor must win it in a battle. Fairly speaking, I even feel insulted challenging such a disgrace to a Mandalorian. Dar’manda.

– Disgrace? – For one small second Cody’s stomach fell of rising fury born out of utter hypocrisy of this woman who had her opinions shared by all her compatriots. He didn’t even notice Din flinching as his voice dropped so low it was freezing cold as Hoth. – Did I ask to be created like this? Did any of us have any say in it? You dare to call me ‘soulless’ – where were you? – He stepped forward almost menacingly. – Where were you all, when millions of Mandalorian clones were being created and used in a war and discarded when ‘defective’, used as chipped puppets to kill the Jedi, who actually cared about us? So noble, so proud, so honorable Mandalorians – did you care about us? We, born Mandalorian, were never ever considered by all of you even as sentients, much less a part of you. We protected you – and you call me ‘disgrace’? Just because we were unfortunate enough to have some Mandalorian as our donor?

Bo-Katan clearly never expected such harshness and such words, moreover, it never ever crossed her mind – she even backed a bit, looking at Cody with surprise.

– You say this sword makes me your king? – Cody grabbed it from his belt and squeezed in his hand. – Who would even want to be your king? A people, who cannot live peacefully even on their own planet! Tearing themselves apart time and time again because of what – difference in traditions? At least we had a community – we, ‘disgraces’, as you love to call us.

Bo-Katan blinked, as if really seeing Cody for the first time. Cody exhaled sharply, only now realizing he was shaking with helpless rage – of unfairness, of disgust, of all this pain never noticed by the Republic. He steadied himself, composing his expression again. Glanced at Din, who was looking at him with a weird mixture of compassion, fear and determination. 

– Take the sword, Lady Kryze, - Cody held out the hilt. – I reclaim my responsibilities that I obtained unknowingly.

– I cannot, - she didn’t hold out her own hand. – Challenge is obligatory.

– Then let the Empire and its minions continue ruining your people. Whatever, Duchess, - he threw the Darksaber into the mud to her feet. – I’ve said my piece.

[antianakin]

It's so hard reading fics focused on clones anymore because I feel like I'm constantly having to translate their dialogue in my head to something normal people would actually say. These poor guys seem to have forgotten everyone's names with how often they just resort to saying some variation on "vod" when speaking to each other (vod, vod'ika, kih'vod, ori'vod, etc).

It's not even like ACTUAL CANON MANDALORIANS speak this way. Even if we set aside someone like Satine and look at the Mando characters created by people who clearly prefer Legends Mando stuff anyway, they don't do this. Din does not call Grogu "ad" or "ad'ika" or add "ika" onto Grogu's name once he knows it. The Armorer doesn't refer to Din by any of those terms, either, or even with a "vod" variation. Sabine doesn't use the term "buir" to refer to her own parents or even as an accidental thing with Kanan and Hera, she never uses "vod" on Zeb or Ezra, she never adds "ika" onto Ezra's name. And it's not like neither of these characters EVER uses Mando'a, we hear Din and the Armorer use it during his training with the Darksaber in TBOBF and Sabine asks for permission to land on Krownest in Mando'a, they just don't CONSTANTLY use it to refer to other people when those people have, you know, names. It's like when fics constantly have siblings referring to each other as "bro" and "sis" despite that being a thing almost nobody ever does in real life.

Not to mention how important names are to the clones and so having them basically erase them in favor of calling everyone by a variation on the exact same endearment feels, uh, not great.

[antianakin]

"Removing a Mandalorian identity from the clones entirely does them just as much of a disservice as saying they're ONLY Mandalorian"

Does it though?

Does it REALLY?

Where in ACTUAL CANON do they ever discuss being Mandalorian at all?

Where in ACTUAL CANON do they ever mention WANTING to be considered Mandalorian?

Where in ACTUAL CANON do they ever speak Mando'a?

Where in ACTUAL CANON do they ever discuss having a connection to Mandalorian culture?

Where in ACTUAL CANON do they ever mention a preference for Mandalorian (or even just spicy) food?

Where in ACTUAL CANON do we see them ever trying to make connections with other Mandalorians on the basis of a shared heritage/culture?

Where in ACTUAL CANON do we see them trying to learn more about Mandalorian culture?

Where in ACTUAL CANON do we see them practicing any of the more well-known Mandalorian traditions?

Where in ACTUAL CANON do we even see them treating things like their armor the way we see Mandalorians treat their armor?

Literally, if you are not DEEP in the lore or in the fandom, and all you knew about the clones came from their ACTUAL CANON CONTENT, you would never ever know there was any sort of connection between the clones and the Mandalorians at all.

What IS important to the clones' identity is the war/being soldiers, the Jedi, and being clones/their time on Kamino. THOSE are the things that get brought up over and over when we do explore the clones a little more in ACTUAL CANON CONTENT. You CANNOT remove those things from them without removing incredibly vital aspects of who they are.

But you CAN ignore any kind of Mandalorian connection because, quite simply, IT ISN'T ACTUALLY THERE. What little you can claim to be there is BY NO MEANS anywhere near as prevalent as everything else that has no connection to being Mandalorian at all. Remove the Mando'a, remove the spicy food, remove the "Mando adopting children gene" bullshit, remove the importance of the armor, and you never lose anything that truly makes the clones WHO THEY ARE. The only reason any of that seems important is because fanon/fandom have decided it's important to THEM because Mandalorians are popular in that area. But it has never actually been important to the way the clones are written in CANON.

So no, I'm sorry, but removing Mandalorian identity from the clones entirely is NOT actually just as much of an injustice as making them wholly Mandalorian. It just isn't.

[antianakin]

You know, if you don't like my thoughts and feelings about Mandoclones, you can quite literally just go somewhere else. Like it isn't that hard to go talk about how great Mandoclones are on your own post rather than deciding to add it onto a post where I talk about why I don't like it and why it's not actually canon. As I've said before, if you really love that headcanon, more power to you, but don't get upset if you choose to come onto my post on my blog and talk about how Mandoclones were actually canon once (they weren't) and I respond with some frustration. If that is going to bother you, you are more than welcome to go make your own post about your Frankenstein monster clone characters that are part Mandalorian, but I'm not sorry for saying that I don't want to see it on my posts.

[antianakin]

Literally why the fuck would a clone consider their helmet to be their "real face"?

They only JUST started being allowed to paint their helmets with individual designs after the war began, none of the clones who show up to Geonosis have anything that looks particularly unique (there's a few clones with different colored paint, presumably to denote rank of some sort, but the design is always the same even if the color isn't). So if they DID start thinking of the helmets as their "real face," it would be a pretty new thing for them and not one with a ton of history behind it.

And even after the war starts, it's ONLY once you leave Kamino that you get to have a helmet or armor with any kind of personalized design, the uniforms we see the Domino and Bravo squads wearing aren't personalized at all (again, there's color differences in order to denote which squad you're a part of, but nothing personalized to the actual clone themselves). So they wouldn't exactly have any sort of tradition of feeling like their helmet is their "real face" since most of the time, their helmets are intended to look just as identical as their regular faces.

Also, the clones would still primarily only have a "real face" later in life, so what does that say about how much time they spend without a helmet with a design? We know they take on their own NAMES before they leave Kamino, so it's not like they don't have identities, they just don't have a "face." They don't even get given a "real face" upon graduating and getting assigned somewhere, they have to wait until they're not "shinies" anymore before they get more personalized paint jobs. If the helmet were really their "face," it seems more likely that they'd want to let the new soldiers paint it as soon as possible instead of making them EARN the right to an identity. It just feels so nonsensical.

We also see the clones taking their helmets off pretty often, certainly any time they're not actively in danger or on a mission, and sometimes even then just to make communication with someone else easier (especially if that person ISN'T wearing armor, like the Jedi). Aside from one moment in the pilot episode with Yoda and the three clones with him (which would fall under the category of still being in danger and on a mission), we never see the clones reluctant to take off their helmets or having to be asked to take them off when interacting with others. That moment also emphasizes for the clones that their armor ISN'T who they are, and that their humanity is something inside of them, but that they shouldn't feel the need to hide their faces simply because they're identical to someone else's. And if we assume most Jedi probably had similar moments with their own battalions, a LOT of clones would likely end up actually learning NOT to associate their identity with their armor and be much more comfortable with their faces showing.

In fact, there's a whole DIFFERENT moment a few seasons later where Rex is speaking to Krell and he takes his helmet OFF to emphasize his point about the clones being men, indicating that the helmet actually makes them more FACELESS and therefore easier to see as closer to machines/droids than real people. It's the face UNDERNEATH the helmet that makes them human, not the helmet itself. They might all share the same face, but that face is the one that shows emotion, that can cry, that can smile, that can speak, that can connect with someone else. Regardless of how many other people share it, that's still their real face, not the cold emotionless helmet that too often gets used to pretend the clones aren't people at all.

[antianakin]

I feel like there's WAY more attention paid to armor than tattoos in clone culture within fandom and I think tattoos deserve more attention than they get (and armor less). Because yes, we do obviously see different armor designs and the like, but we also see a LOT of clones wearing pretty much the exact same armor design as a lot of other clones (the Doylist explanation for this is obviously that the animators weren't going to come up with separate armor designs for every single background clone, but I'm taking a Watsonian approach here), whereas any time a clone has a tattoo somewhere, it's never the same thing twice.

Armor designs are fun, they're nice, but armor breaks and gets lost while the tattoos are on their bodies FOREVER. We've also seen a few clones who have armor designs that match their tattoos, and I'm headcanoning that the tattoos came FIRST. So even some of the clones who we DON'T see have matching tattoos to their armor designs probably actually do somewhere. So like Waxer and Boil didn't just put Numa on their helmets, helmets get broken and destroyed, they got her face tattooed on their bodies somewhere, too. Rex has the shriek hawk eyes tattooed somewhere. Cody has the sunburst tattooed. If the design means something to them, it's been tattooed on their bodies, too.

I want more shared tattoos between clones who care about each other, too. Probably not the same as the one they have on their armor, but something else that's special to just the two of them. Fives and Echo could have a little domino tattoo somewhere to represent not just their bond, but their bonds to the rest of the squad they lost. Sometimes it's a memorial for someone they've lost, like maybe Jesse and Kix have a tattoo for Hardcase after Umbara, or Fox has one for Thorn after Scipio.

Tattoos are also a lot easier to hide and keep private from certain people if necessary, while armor designs are always able to be seen no matter what. So tattoos can be a LOT more personal than an armor design, too. They can represent terrible traumas or the deepest dream, something they don't dare even discuss with anyone else but don't want to forget. Clones with tattoos of coordinates to a planet they might one day want to call home, clones with tattoos of quotes that inspire them or maybe the last words spoken to them by a loved one or a promise made to someone else that they hope they can keep. Many clones have plant tattoos of some kind, the first flower or tree they ever saw, to remind them of the beauty that exists in the galaxy and what they're fighting to protect. Names are incredibly common tattoos once they've chosen it, either written out in letters or represented in an image somehow.

Over time, maybe in a happy fix-it AU where they have the ability to really let this develop, certain designs and patterns start meaning certain things to the clones and so they become shared across MANY clones as almost a shared unspoken language. A specific design might mean loss, or specific achievements in life.

Just... more about the tattoos in clone culture, they're SO underexplored.

[antianakin]

Okay so I will bring back Mandoclones for JUST A SECOND to present a scenario where those Mando trainers exist and Jango is more active in the clones' training and so when they finally start working with the Jedi, the clones all have the most HORRIFIC sense of mental health the Jedi have ever seen as a result of traditional Mandalorian attitudes towards it and general Kaminoan negligence.

The Jedi meanwhile are obviously the galaxy's most emotionally healthy people, generally, and their entire CULTURE revolves around positive mental health practices, it's almost literally in their blood at this point. They're intergalactic therapists, so when presented with several thousand men to lead who are all just... struggling SO SO MUCH with what's happening to them and around them, they step in.

The clones, obviously, are INCREDIBLY reluctant to admit anything's wrong at all, admitting to being scared or hurt or upset or anxious or worried would've gotten them pretty intense punishments from the Mandalorians which naturally would've led to some unfortunate attention from the Kaminoans. So they're not exactly inclined to talk to the Jedi about these things, either, expecting similar treatment.

But the Jedi pick up on this and figure out what's likely going on and basically try to start leading by example. They open up about THEIR fears and anxieties, they talk about how important their meditation is to them, they discuss Jedi teachings on letting go of fear and accepting change, they openly talk about how they speak to their mind healers after really difficult battles and how much it helps. They let the men see them cry sometimes, let their frustration with the situation be just a little more evident (but always trying to make sure the clones don't think that they're the source of the frustration), they complain about things like how endless paperwork seems and how annoying politicians can be. They bring on things the men can use for entertainment like books and sports equipment and some kind of craft item to keep their hands busy. Card packs start showing up by the dozen so the men can at least play card games in their downtime.

And finally, maybe one trooper speaks up and says something like "That was a really rough battle" within hearing range of the Jedi and everyone waits to see what the Jedi's reaction is going to be and they just sigh a little and say "Yeah, it really was, I'll be glad to get to bed tonight" and the clones all relax just a little more. After that, more and more start vocalizing little things about how they feel, both positive and negative. The Jedi start suggesting using things like sports and creative projects as ways to release stress. One of the troopers asks the Jedi if they've read one of the books that was brought onto the ship and the Jedi says yes so they end up in a short conversation about it that leads to a lot of the men asking the Jedi about books they've read which leads to them speaking to EACH OTHER about the books they've read and sharing their opinions about what they liked best.

Slowly, bit by bit, the Jedi start unraveling the terrible Mandalorian and Kaminoan attitudes about mental health that the clones were forced to endure for so long. Slowly, the clones start letting go of that one piece of their culture the Mandalorians had deigned to share with them, and instead choose to embrace the Jedi's culture instead.

[antianakin]

Hey! 👋 Just wanted to send in a message and say thanks for reblogging my post to leave some of your thoughts on it. I hope you didn’t mind the tag. 😅 Half the time Tumblr breaks links to other blogs for me, so I just thought tagging would be easier. I also apologize if it felt like I was calling you out or something about giving points on pro jedi to anti jedi fans?? 😭 It’s probably just my anxiety, but I still just wanted to clarify in case my words bothered you. I was more just kinda speaking in general to pro jedi fans as a whole.

I definitely agree with your thoughts looking back on it now that the anon might’ve been genuine in the sense they weren’t trolling, but it was clear they just wanted to be told they were right. They didn’t genuinely want to debate. I kinda sometimes look for the best in people even if it’s not there. 🤦‍♀️😂 But yeah… it IS frustrating to have asks open related to answering SW meta posts or fic questions and then just see a kinda benevolently condescending anti/critical jedi ask in there like that.

Getting all the thoughts out helped me cool off from my rage at that YouTube commenter that called Leia a “brat” though for not forgiving Anakin, at least. It’s the little things in life, I suppose. 😌💖😂

I hope you’re doing good! 👍 I do genuinely love hearing your SW takes, whether on Anakin or Jedi or clone stuff in general. I feel like you’re a lot more objective than others can be about Anakin, if that makes sense?? And also just about the clones in general too and your thoughts they might not want to be seen as mandalorians (at least I think I recall you saying that before in a post?), because they’re clones and brothers in arms first and foremost. I personally like the idea of them having mandoa just because I feel like it’s something that would be taught and passed down from the genetic tree of Jango. But I DEFINITELY appreciate the idea that Jango might’ve not been as deified by clones as people believe. 😭 I’m not saying he was the devil, but at the end of the day he plucked out a kid from the thousands he left behind from being his clones, and called it a day.

I wasn't bothered at all, my firmer more negative opinions aren't going to be for everyone! I'm consistently surprised at how many people DO seem to appreciate anything I have to say on the topic, negative or otherwise. I've said this before, but I made this blog as a space for me to express more negative things and I figured that would be kind-of a turn off for people. I'm glad that it's ended up apparently being at least somewhat enjoyable to other people.

It's incredibly funny to hear myself described as "objective" about Anakin given, well, everything. I'm NOT objective about him, obviously, I'm decidedly biased against him. I HAVE tried to approach his character as objectively as I can sometimes if people have asked me to, but I don't like him much and that does color the way I interact with Star Wars and stories he's involved in. People who love Anakin, even if they're extremely pro Jedi at the same time, will often interpret things VERY differently from how I would specifically because they're more inclined to be sympathetic to him and believe the best of him in a way I just can't most of the time.

For the clones, while I've definitely expressed the opinion that they wouldn't want to be considered Mandos before, that's one of my more bitter opinions, one I tend to feel when I'm more annoyed at the whole Mandoclone concept. If I were trying to be more objective about it, I feel less like they wouldn't WANT to be considered Mandos and simply that they AREN'T Mandos. There's never any real indication that the clones feel a connection to that culture aside from like... two little designs on the helmets that could just as easily be explained away in other ways. They never actually speak Mando'a, they never talk about Jango at all, and they don't seem to show a desire to interact with the Mandos when they have the opportunity (Cody and Rex are both around during the Duchess on Mandalore arc, Rex goes to Mandalore with Ahsoka, and Rex/Gregor/Wolffe meet Sabine). Aside from the two tiniest little designs, there's never a single indication that these people ever felt any connection to being Mandalorian at all.

And I personally just find it really boring to just make the clones MandoLite and base their entire culture around one that already exists rather than recognizing that they've got a radically different kind of upbringing that would have caused some VERY different values and traditions from Mandos. They've got their own canonical slang, they've traveling all the time and could be picking up any number of different traditions from the people on different planets (language, food, maybe art and songs and dances and games). I think Mandoclone headcanons often treat the clones as a monolith instead of recognizing that they're individual people in the process of creating their own extremely unique culture. I think the clones deserve more fun and interesting headcanons than just turning them into MandoLite.

[antianakin]

Funny how eliminating "Mandoclones" from my understanding of them is allowing me to actually come up with more unique and interesting headcanons about them like that Boil has Strong Opinions about how to hot rod a ship. Boil would have Thoughts on what Han did to the Millennium Falcon and they'd probably disagree about it STRENUOUSLY. Boil thinks Anakin hotrodding the Twilight was the worst job he's ever seen. He doesn't think it was really WORTH spending time hotrodding honestly, but he could definitely do a MUCH better job of it if anyone ever let him near it.

In a post-war happy fix-it situation, Boil is the person everyone goes to when they're in the market for a new speeder or ship to let them know which one to get so they don't have to do the research themselves. He'd have his favorites based on ones he thinks are really COOL, but he also perfectly understands that most people want a speeder/ship for practical reasons and need them to be like shoes that you can just put on in the morning and not think about again for the rest of the day. Finding the right speeder/ship for someone is all about understanding the person and their priorities and taste. Boil actually finds it kind-of fun, putting together what he knows about a person and finding them the perfect vehicle.

[antianakin]

Do you happen to have links to all the fic rec posts you've done? I'm really enjoying going through them : )

They should all be under the tag "fic rec," so you can always just search for that tag on my blog and find every post where I've made fic recs or reblogged someone else's fic rec.

For the longer, more organized fic rec lists I've done on my own, you can search for the tag "antianakin fic rec series" on my blog and find the three that currently exist.

Please note that many of these will have overlapping recommendations.

Here's a list of fics for someone who asked for anti-Vader fics with the OT group.

Here is a post where I was complaining about Mandoclones and someone asked me if I had any fic recs for stories without any Mandoclone stuff.

Here is a list of fic recs for someone who asked for pro-Jedi recs dealing specifically with the Deception arc and Wrong Jedi arc from TCW.

Here is a short list for someone who asked for fics that were critical of Ahsoka.

Here is a list of recs for someone who asked for fics where Rex and/or Ahsoka realize Anakin's a bad general.

Here is a short list I did of Double Agent Cody fics.

Here is a review I did of one specific fic I really loved called Out With Lanterns (please note that the review does contain spoilers after the first three paragraphs or so).

Here is a review of sorts I did for a Bobadin fic.

Here is the first and second fic rec lists I made for specifically anti-Anakin fic recs.

Here is the Pro-Jedi Codywan fic rec list I did that started it all.