#anti lila

[stellarlex]

At this point Lila has more plot armor than Marinette salters ever accused Marinette of having. She literally gets away with everything with zero explanation and zero accountability.

[western-magical-girl-confessions]

“One of the dumbest excuses I always see for Lila is “She's just 14.” She is 14, she is more than old enough to be well aware that her actions are awful but she just doesn’t care. She only cares about herself. There is no excuse for her behavior, and I’m so sick of seeing aged used as an excuse for somebody’s actions in honestly anything.

Now do some salt fics take it way too far? Oh yeah definitely. But with all the Lila has done, she can’t just get away with a time out in the corner.”

[laurrelise]

there’s something so haunting about watching scenes with five when he’s actually thirteen.

like, the flashbacks to before he time-traveled or when he was freshly dropped into the apocalypse.

the entire series, he’s supposed to look like that same damaged but not yet broken thirteen year-old, but he’s not. he’s the traumatized, lonely old man that we know and love. we don’t really know young five.

we know things about him. we know he was extremely stubborn and intelligent. we know he was distant but considerate, and that he wanted to prove himself to reginald more than anything.

but we never really learned who he was. and neither did five.

sometimes i wonder if he mourns the loss of his youth. of his curiosity. of his naivety and convenient stubbornness.

how could a kid grow into a stable man in a crumbling, apocalyptic hellscape?

the answer is, he can’t. so he never did.

he may look like he knows what he’s doing, like he’s got it all figured out, but he’s more lost than anyone in the series. he’s never had a moment to breathe. he never got to figure out who he was or wanted to be.

so he carries his young self around in his head like a rotted corpse, pretending it’s not there in an effort to stay focused in a situation that calls for urgency.

but his young self never escapes him. he may have physically gotten older. he can still feel the scratchiness of his mustache and hear the sloshing of water as innocent blood runs off of his body and into his drain. he may have had more wrinkles and scratches and scars to count, but he’s still the same naive child who disappeared out of spite.

he knows he is, and he hates himself for it.

he hates the stupid, senseless kid who ran off without a plan or the brains to make sure he knew how to handle his abilities before throwing caution to the wind. he started hating himself the moment he smelled charred bodies and burning buildings for the first time, the moment he knew that smell would never fully leave him.

and it doesn’t.

and neither does the thirteen year-old runaway.

[unhinged-as-hell]

Listen I'm a respect all ships(most of the time) kinda person, but fivela??? Like I am sorry but no. Not only is it, in lack of better terms, gross in the sense of ahem Five killing Lila's parents, Lila being Five's sister-in-law, Five being mentally a shit ton older than Lila or Five being much younger than Lila(either way it isn't great) but the actors are believe it or not, actual human beings! Ritu is lemme get this right...15 years older than Aidan and she also watched him grow up!

And have we forgotten that this is something Steve decided on when Aidan was a minor? That he was literally just waiting till Aidan was a legal adult? Not to mention just how uncomfortable both Ritu and Aidan look whenever it is brought up! Or how horrified Aidan seemed when he learned that this is something that has been in planning for...a while!

There is no way, Irl or the show, this isn't disgusting!

[cheerfullycatholic]

[imjustasmalltowngirl]

stripping lila pitts, the best add-on character of the show who feels like she’s always been there, of her agency and turning her into five’s cottagecore wife and then a token for five and diego to fight over until their final breaths…oh i’m not…i’m not happy about it thank you very much

[terrapia]

What also bothers me about the whole Lila/Diego/Five bullshit is how it basically gives the message that married life sucks.

That once you get kids, a house, "boring" jobs and daily tasks, the romance goes to shit and your life is basically ruined.

Like...no. That was not supposed to be the message! Make them talk! Voice their problems with each other! Rediscover their passion for one another! Make them see how badass and adventurous their family life can be! Make them understand how lucky they are! How depsite of losing their powers and the thrill of what their chaotic life used to be, their new family life can be just as adventurous! Different, yes, but not worse!

I would love to see them grow as a couple. To see them overcome their pasts and embrace the change. To see them finally snap and realize they love each other. That it's still them against the world, but now it's also their family against the world.

But no, i guess it's better to make them fall apart and make the whole relationship toxic in the end 🤷🏼‍♀️ oh and turn Lila into a cheater...with her husband's brother. How truly epic...smh.

[locke-esque-monster]

I got real nervous they were doing Lila x Five really early in the season. It wasn't even explicitly stated, it was just a feeling from how they were setting up and framing things. Lila disagreeing with Diego and going to talk to Five. Lila keeping secrets from Diego that Five knew about. The tension of Five covering for Lila to Diego. Lila's dissatisfaction with her relationship with Diego and asking for a break. Without actively being romantically into Five, it kept setting up the narrative for Lila to leave Diego and Five was all tied in with what she was going to as an alternative to Diego. Add that to the promo pics with them together - even having watched it later and avoided spoilers I had a real bad feeling where this was going long before 4x5. (Or at least avoided until I already had my theory - my phone helpfully suggested an article days before I got to 4x5. I was not pleased to say the least.)

But there's a lot of reasons I take issue with this pairing and how it was done, so Christ, I guess let's get started:

Five explicitly stated in season 3 that Lila is not his type.

Five murdered Lila's parents. Sure, on the Handler's orders. But you think it's easy to have a romantic relationship when you know those hands killed your parents (aka my biggest critique of Tony/Bucky shippers in the MCU).

Five is indirectly responsible for the Handler's death. He saved everyone but her when he time traveled back. Sure, Lila was upset with her, but this woman raised her. She's got to have some complicated feelings about that and Five is all wrapped up in them now.

Five also had a weird relationship with the Handler, where she was a little flirty with him, which was all kinds of uncomfortable. Lila briefly mimicked this in season 3, which was even more uncomfortable. It's unclear if this was deliberately copying her "mother" or not. But adding Five and the Handler's complicated relationship on top of the other issues means there's a whole carousel of baggage to unpack here.

Five has always seemed kind of annoyed or tolerant of Lila, which extended into early this season. It's maybe a hair kinder at the start of season 4, but definitely not where it should be if there's potential here. It'd be one thing if they were friends after 6 years, but their relationship hasn't substantially changed at the start of this season to suggest otherwise.

If you have to do an all musical montage to show 2 characters falling in love, I'm sorry, you're not doing this right. That's telling, not showing. These characters have had tons of interactions to build off of. If you can't do that, then you're effectively saying that you have no foundation for this relationship.

Also, if it takes 6 1/2 years of being each others sole companions under adverse conditions for you to get together - maybe you shouldn't be together. It's one thing if it's treated like "Finally" or "Oh I didn't think you also felt this way". It's another if it's like it's a new idea entirely - that suggests loneliness and a desire for companionship and they're you're only option.

Five's history includes him having a pseudo-romantic relationship with a mannequin when he's left alone in the apocalypse at 13. The next time he's separated from his family for years he's with Lila. I'll allow that it makes sense he developed feelings for her specifically because of his history. That said, that makes this a wholly unhealthy relationship when he has a history like that. Lila is filling a gap Five's psyche has clung to before in similar harrowing times.

Frankly, the fact Lila was first looking for excitement out of her home life and is now upset she can't get back to her family isn't a good headspace either. (I'm also deeply frustrated that Lila feels trapped at home. Lila is so capable and she has a buttload of family members who apparently can take their children on a whim during all this chaos. You're telling me she couldn't have found a better outlet to work on their marriage or get some freedom before it got to this point of lying to Diego?)

Five is volatile and Lila is unpredictable. They're nothing but a menace to practically every other character they meet, including each other. But once they're a couple, they're perfectly pleasant the whole time. I don't buy it. The only fight they have is when Five lied to her. I'm not saying they can't be sweet. But this is all sweetness. For me to buy this couple they need to lovingly bicker. Instead, they've both had personality transplants.

So they decide to go back to the greenhouse after 6 years 5 months and 2 days. Five admits to having the book 5 or 6 months on their 7th anniversary of being lost. Let's be generous and assume they kissed within a couple days of getting to the greenhouse, because they look reasonably settled. That means that best case, Five decided that after being in a relationship for less than 2 months, he was going to throw his whole family away and run away with Lila. That is a hell of a lot of commitment for a short relationship.

And keep in mind, it's not like their family is safe. Last they heard, they hadn't solved the Cleanse. So they're either actively in danger or dead. Five - The man who spent 45 years trying to save his family. Who survived decades in the apocalypse alone (minus Delores the mannequin) and murdered his way through time for the chance to get back and save them - is going to let his family die for a 2 month relationship. I call bullshit.

Also, I will give Five credit that he tried to stay on task during the fight with the Cleanse. He only seemed to fight in retaliation for Diego - he actively looked towards the fight at least once before Diego pulled his attention. But you're telling me he's ready to keep fighting Diego and is threatening to kill him over Lila? That his powers only work correctly after 7 years of having them back because Lila begged him? I once again call bullshit.

And Five was going off to mope alone and never come back and potentially let his family die from an active threat, all because Lila didn't pick him? That is not the Five I know.

I also feel like we maybe did all this arc to get Lila to the point where Five has to convince her to stay because no one else could even if she hates him for it, but still get her family on the train to get the planned ending. And that feels very clunky and I hate it.

Outside of plot lines - it is a bit disturbing to me that we're pairing up an actor whose barely an adult with a woman 15 years his senior - practically old enough to be his mother. This is a aside from the fact he's a what, 71 year old man internally at this point and Lila (if we assume even living at the commission she's a similar age to Diego) is in her early 40s by the time she kisses a physically mid-20s Five. There's so much about that I am not okay with I don't even know where to start.

I also hear the writers wanted a romance for Five. First, okay, then have a longer season. Develop a character for Five earlier on in the season or the show you can pair him with. God knows with that history and age issues it'll be tricky. But also frankly - why? Why does Five need a romantic love interest? He's been fueled by the love of his family and that's done so many impressive things out of love for them. Not everyone needs a romantic love of their life to find happiness and it feels very heteronormative (is that the word I want?) that we need to have that for Five. Give Five an apocalypse-free world and his family alive and then we can see what happiness he can find.

[fivewantscoffee]

No, you know what, I'm not done talking: I hate how obvious it is that every choice made with Lila and Five in S4 was all so they could end up together.

They weren't even subtle about it, it was so obvious!! 😭

[pepperf]

What I think Steve Blackman and everyone who bleats on about how 'Five and Lila have SO MUCH in common!!!' have missed is that...this is an ensemble show. None of these characters can or should exist in a vacuum, or locked off in binary pairs. They need the wider community, or they stagnate. And yes, Five and Lila have some past history and traits in common (thanks for ruining that relationship as well, Steve!), but no more than they do with the others, their bond isn't unique. Their experiences with the Commission and the Handler were vastly different, as are their attitudes towards kiling - Five sees it as just a job, nothing personal, he found a way to rationalise it away, whereas to Lila it's always personal. Five tells both Lila and Diego in the same ep that they're not cut out for the Commission (although frankly I'm not sold on him being quite as all-knowing about it as he claims).

The show has always been about the siblings coming back together, and Lila got integrated into that bond more than any of the other partners, partly as a result of her being one of them. She had so much in common with Allison, we barely got a glimpse of it, but their brief conversations were always so sparky. She and Luther were the only ones who stayed with their abusive parent well into adulthood, that would've been fascinating to dig into - especially as they have very different personalities. Almost everyone expected her and Klaus to be chaotic bffs, and it was such a pity that never materialised. And I would have loved to see how she got on with Ben and Viktor - I've seen it done well in fic, there's so much potential there, but it was basically entirely bypassed.

And Diego, of course. They are each other's best cheerleader and defender, they admire each other's fighting skills, they can read each other like a book, and they have absolutely unmatched chemistry. And all the way through, what they actually want out of life aligns so beautifully: they crave excitement and adventure with the people they love, they don't care about stability or safety, they love being in the thick of it, throwing themselves into a fight. They don't want calm, quiet lives without conflict. Lila gets lost in the subway system for the same reason Diego is off at the CIA. This is in sharp contrast to Five, who was clear from the start that he'd done his time and was dreaming of retirement, he didn't want to deal with yet another emergency every five minutes.

And (again unlike Five), Diego and Lila aren't content to go it alone - they thrive around other people, they are drawn to being around family and friends. It's healthier, in real life as well as on TV, for couples to have close relationships outside of the core one - and Diego and Lila, although they revolve around each other for two whole seasons, never feel like they're trying to isolate themselves from the group, they're always including other people in their shenanigans.

So yeah, unless you weren't paying attention to Lila until Five started making googly eyes at her, you would have seen the beauty of her progress in finding her place with the Hargreeves - and it's significant that her last line (other than "fuck you", lol) is to thank them for letting her be part of their weird family. That's her underlying character arc, and it sucks that all the focus went on a grubby little detour for the last couple of eps instead.

[laurrelise]

so crazy how steve blackman made the executive decision to replace five in s4 with his weird boring oc named jerome who homewrecks and isn’t as cool as five and thought we wouldn’t notice

i sure am glad, though, that instead of participating in season 4’s activities, five was actually off being a retired old man, fishing… or doing crossword puzzles from the morning newspaper… or adopting mr pennycrumb …

[kacievvbbbb]

The character assasination of Lila being more happy to see the family than five. FIVE survived an apocalypse and a deranged bureau for 46 years so he could fight his way back to save his family FIVE. isn't happy to see them after getting lost against his will for 7 years.

Like he thinks the cleanse is over and done with he thinks he's coming back to peace and his family happy and together and Lila is more excited to see them than him? Five who has traversed space and time for his siblings, who has outrun apocalypse after apocalypse after apocalypse for them. and 7 years is enough to destroy all that make him wish for a time without them? I call bullshit.

[cheerfullycatholic]

[imjustasmalltowngirl]

seriously, i can’t imagine what it must be like to portray a character with such thought, care, love, and effort for six years only for the series showrunner to screw it up and throw all of your work out the window for the sake of a love story that only he wanted. i’m not naming names, but i bet y’all knew what i meant immediately.

[lunalovesangst]

Today I dreamt that in season 4, Diego, Lila, and Five went to the beach (a plan by Diego to try and make the other two get along (they know it's a plot but went along anyway))

Diego spent his time building a big sand castle, which by the way looked terrible.

Five was mesmerized by the sea so he just spent the afternoon letting the water touch his feet, and playing with the waves (he would deny this later).

Lila went back and forth between them, and collecting rocks and sea shells that looked pretty.

She wanted to swim in the ocean, like kinda far away from the shore, and proposed the idea. Diego pretty much accepted right away but Five didn't want to because he is kinda afraid of it (my reasoning here was that he'd never seen the sea and while he was fine touching the water, he wouldn't go past from where it reached his knees) but of course he didn't say that, why would he be scared of water don't be stupid, but they teased him anyway, and went swimming without him for a bit.

Diego ended up with a sunburn, Lila and Five bonded over making fun of him, and they were all friends.

I remember waking up and thinking "huh, that would've been better than the Fivelila romance crap we got"

[capinejghafa]

the only way for this to have made any sense, if you will... is if Diego didn't do anything during s2 or s3. Like nothing! Like forget taking care of Stan for a minute or forgiving her. His belief in Lila, in his future fam, in their love, came with the promise when he gave her back the bracelet! Not to mention Lila, she grab his hand and walked away with him because she also believed in that promise. And I know promises can be broken! But tua spent actual years developing this ship... like the foundation and how it would work.

Diego also learned Punjabi for her and his in laws, he got a job he hated for her family... I hate to take side because that's not what this is but Lila also gave up. You want to pin this all on Diego it's whatever, but Lila was sneaking around for who knows how long... because she was sneaking around. Maybe she wasn't cheating in physical sense, but she was cheating in an emotional sense. I love Lila (one of my cat's is named after her!) but let us not pretend that she didn't also fail their marriage almost to a worse degree... she was emotionally distant.

Also, Lila and the other person being a better fit would have worked but it was developed so poorly (and the age gap in both canon and irl is so gross don't over think it) that by the time we got to the episode it was just a throw away plot.

In doing all this... he also destroyed whole Five was in the process...

So none of this makes sense, you fucking hack.

[source]