#anti infinity war

[spooky-donut-ghost-house]

[crystalclearwright]

I am anti- Everything Marvel/Disney has done with Loki after Thor The Dark World, and/or the way they have done it. I'm not arguing about it. I'm not circle-jerking about it, either. I just think you should know that so you're not confused when I completely disregard all of it in my fanfictions and headcanons.

[gloriousburden]

although i am very critical of ragnarok/infinity and don’t take them as canon, i must admit that he was beautiful in these scenes and we so deserved scenes of our loki in blue lighting like this. sort of reminds me of the scene with the other in avengers 2012. forgive me my beloved mutuals and oomfs it’s not what it looks like

[lucianalight]

Taika the satire idiot gave us hope then infinity war took it all away that thor and loki could ever have some kind of common ground

Oh right that was what you meant(I assume you're the same anon?). I didn't feel like the finale was like the beginning of IW. Loki's death in IW meant to be final. They had no plan to make a TV show when they were filming it. They even broke the fourth wall to make sure everyone get that this is his end. And in every interview tried desperately to convince the fans that Loki was dead this time for good.

And Loki's death was pointless, violent and graphic. He was treated as nothing but a plot device for other characters. And the directors claimed it was sth that he deserved.

This wasn't the case in the finale. He was portrayed as a hero not deserving of this fate. He was shown having the ability to travel through time and space (time slipping), stop time and keep the universe alive. And it was shown he can hear or maybe see what happens in each timeline. So he has infinite power and literally infinite knowledge on his hands. And he is Loki. Nothing can bound him forever. He'll find a better way.

So I have hope for the first time in years that we might actually get a Thor and Loki reunion worthy of og characters.

[gay-jewish-bucky]

In the superior MCU (Marvel Cole Universe) the team defeats Thanos at the battle of Wakanda and in the excitement Steve proposes to Bucky right there on the battlefield and Bucky says yes (of course he says yes) and kisses Steve all over his stupid face and everyone celebrates with them ❤️

They are also pretty promptly made "get a room" because they've become very comfortable with PDA

[lokiinmediasideblog]

Im sorry. Im just saying because Loki's shock value death IW is the worst thing to ever happen in cinema. I love the former antagonist working with the heroes to stop the bigger bad trope. It makes MORE SENSE. But nooooo

I hated it too. LOL. And I love that trope too. I hope something like that happens in S2. I love the whole "Loki is responsible for gathering the Avengers" so it's a nice arc to parallel that.

[thefourthnorn]

Every time I come back to this post, there's even more excellent meta added. Thank you for your thoughts. They're 🔥

Literally the only reason Loki didn’t have more story in IW and Endgame was that his natural story progression would have him become a hero and an Avenger and the Russo’s apparently desperately hated that idea *mic drop*

[vee-nyx]

to celebrate 8 years since civil war release, let’s review all the ways tony stark was an absolute loser and actually the reason thanos won in infinity war:

created an omnicidal A.I. that the rest of the team warned him against creating

decided that the entire team needed to become government puppets because he felt guilty for creating said A.I. that, once again, NO ONE SUPPORTED HIM IN MAKING

(also the reason bucky was forced back into the fight bc tony caused sokovia and thus caused zemo’s need for revenge but i digress on that pt)

when members of the team who can’t disconnect from their abilities raised concerns about how the accords dehumanized them, he had them arrested or locked them in his tower

bribed (yes, bribed) a child into fighting on his side because he knew he was outmatched

instructed vision to shoot sam out of the sky and then shot sam point-blank when he avoided the blast that would’ve left him severely injured AND LANDED TO HELP THE PERSON IT HIT

wanda on the raft. this is its own point. he let her be restrained and collared like a fucking DOG as if he hadn’t already done enough damage in her life (killing her parents & brother)

proceeded to break the accords THAT HE HELPED WRITE to chase cap across the globe because he felt left out of the action

blamed a brainwashed pow for BEING FORCED to kill the starks AGAINST HIS WILL and proceeded to BLOW HIS ARM OFF and ATTEMPT TO KILL HIM DESPITE KNOWING THAT NONE OF IT WAS HIS CHOICE

mocked natasha’s trauma because she dared to disagree with his methods (he is, in fact, incapable of letting go of his ego for one goddamn second)

even after receiving an apology, refused to contact cap for three years despite KNOWING about the threat of thanos

in conclusion,

[dolche-tejada]

So I wanted to point out the usual nonsenses coming from Tony Stark antis and luckily enough, one of them made a post quoting pretty much most of their popular "arguments" (if I can refer to them as such), so let's take a look at this user’s main points and see how solid they are.

"Let's talk about the horrible shit Tony has done in the MCU"

Please keep in mind the "horrible shit" term all along during your reading.

"MCU Tony has mortared a city full of civilians"

Okay so first point and it literally never happened. USA's government did that to Wanda and Pietro's town, not Tony so I hope it wasn't too painful to pull this nonsense out of your ass.

"Been a complete dick to all of his teammates"

Oh no... he was mean to Steve and his coworkers during their first movie ? What a complete tragedy, what a heartless monster. Please stop the violins, otherwise I might weep.

"Made multiple misogynistic comments about women mainly Natasha (looking at you prima nocta scene)"

Okay so you gave only one example to back this up and it's when he was obviously joking with his friends. Even if that joke may be in very bad taste, that doesn't make him a horrible person like you tried to demonstrate, you're just nitpicking.

"Manipulated a 16 year old into getting into a war with his former teammates"

A) "a war" please don't make me laugh. For most of the only fight Peter take part in, both sides were joking with the other while fighting and weren't even fighting seriously, they were just trying to incapacitate each other. Things only get messy after Tony ordered Peter to step back.

B) Tony didn't manipulate shit. He hid no vital informations to Peter and while bringing a 16 year old to an arrest was indeed a stupid decision, he knew Steve wouldn't harm him and that Peter was strong, competent and equipped enough to deal with him.

"Thought he was completely justified for trying to kill Bucky for something Bucky did unwillingly cuz he was fucking brainwashed"

Why the fuck are you lying ? At no point Tony justified himself for this. He tried during the whole Civil War plot to ease things with Steve and this even after his best friend got disabled for life because Steve escalated the situation at the airport, only to learn then that his friend lied to him all along about his parents' death.

At this point Tony just didn't care anymore and while he was obviously wrong for trying to kill Bucky, it's not like he had no understandable reasons to go after him. Brainwashed or not, most people would try to obliterate their parents' murderer if he stood right in front of them.

"Repeatedly mocked Bruce Banner who was filled with self loathing and even tried to kill himself because of how much he hated being The Hulk"

Firstly he joked with him, not about him. Secondly, Tony was the only one who respected Bruce from the start and never treated him like some ticking bomb ready to explode.

"Created most of the villains in the MCU (Mysterio and Co., Vulture, Aldrich Killian, The Maximoff Twins, Justin Hammer, The Flag-Smashers etc)"

Okay, where do I even begin on that.

Quentin Beck was a narcissistic asshole who got mad because his boss called his invention "B.A.R.F", that and Tony tossing it aside because this tech was way too expansive for its very limited applications. So not Tony's fault if Beck had an ego more fragile than a soap bubble.

Hammer tried to destroy Tony's image and Stark Industries first, so Tony defended himself by revealing he crippled a man by trying to replicate his tech. Hammer fucked around and found out, not Tony's fault if he's an hypocritical idiot.

Concerning the Flag Smashers, the reason they became terrorists wasn't caused by Tony bringing back half of the universe, it was due to the Global Repatriation Council's disastrous resources management.

About Toomes, Tony had no prior knowledge of the contract he signed with NY and even if he did, leaving dangerous alien tech in the hands of random people is quite a moronic idea, as evidenced by what they did with this tech for years. Not Tony's fault if Toomes is delusional and sucks at his job.

Aldrich Killian ? Be fucking real, he became a super-villain just because Tony ignored him, an archetypal greasy-haired nerd who literally drools as he talks, for a pretty chick on New Year's Eve.

Like obviously, when a serial killer stab someone to death, the most logical reaction is to blame those who assemble knives at the factory rather than the murderer himself, makes perfect sense to me.

The Maximoff Twins, my god this argument again... Yeah let's blame the guy who designed and sold weapons to his government rather than, oh I don't know, the fucking guys who used them against civilians ??

"Which also means he's also had some hand in the deaths caused by all these characters"

Literally none of the characters you quoted became super-villains because of him.

"Created Ultron"

He intended to create a security system against other alien invasions and it resulted in a genocidal robot, which only happened because Wanda mindraped him some hours before. Tony is responsible for Ultron's creation, Wanda for what he became.

And I don't want to see anybody whining in my mentions that he already planned to design Ultron prior to her mindraping him, not when she had this fucking grin after seeing Tony taking the Mind Stone with him.

Let alone when she threw this line, later in the movie : I saw Stark’s fear. I knew it would control him, make him self destruct.

She knew letting him take the Stone would cause something awful that might also kill him and she used her powers to make him even more paranoid. She's responsible for Ultron going from "A suit of armor around the world" to "Genocidal Murder Bot", not Tony.

"Thought it was a good idea to have a newly created AI be exposed to The Mind Stone which caused Ultron to kill JARVIS and go rogue

A) Which again wouldn't have happened if Wanda hadn't mindraped him the same day.

B) He didn't consciously exposed Ultron to it, the Mind Stone corrupted the AI on its own, something Tony and Bruce had no way to predict.

C) Still not his fault anyway. Ultron is sentient, he takes his own decisions. Tony being his "father" doesn't change anything to this state of fact.

"Profited off of war by making weapons of mass destruction and selling them"

Something he's spent over a decade to make amend for, notably by closing his weapons division and dedicating his life and resources to helping people and saving the world.

"Bought illegally obtained vibranium stolen directly from Wakanda by Klaue"

False too. All we know is that they met each other at the time Tony was still designing weapons ; and that Klaue told him he was looking for something new. At no point was it implied Tony illegally bought vibranium from him.

"Technically responsible for more vibranium being stolen from Wakanda by Klaue due to Ultron"

This vibranium was already stolen by Klaue when Ultron met him.

"Being responsible for everyone who died in Sokovia's death because he made Ultron"

So following your reasoning, I guess Jeffrey Dahmer's parents are responsible for every murder their son committed from his own free-will ? Did I get that right ?

"Being unwilling to help Steve and the others fix the Blip cuz muh daughter"

My god, how dare he... being against playing with time and rather trying to accept what happened while taking care of his family.

And this when we know screwing up with time can cause world-ending events.

Truly a proof of how horrible of a human being he is, indeed.

Btw I like how you ignored that Tony changed his mind and helped them afterwards.

"Supported The Sokovia Accords which need I remind you all Tony is technically responsible for The Accords being made because A. he's the one who killed Wanda's parents (blah blah blah, a lot of false attributions later...) causing her to kill Crossbones and a building full of people"

Still isn't him who dropped those mortar shells on her house. Just like it's not him who pushed Crossbones to go suicide-bombers, wrote the Sokovia Accords and incited 119 countries to sign them.

"and B. he is literally responsible for what happened to Sokovia BECAUSE HE MADE ULTRON"

Already answered to this shit, let's continue.

"Referring to Wanda as "a weapon of mass destruction" in Civil War"

Lmao because she isn't ? No one forced Wanda to join a terrorist organization, pal. Just like no one pushed her to act as a weapon of mass destruction, by using her powers to send Hulk on a rampage across Johannesburg or by enslaving Westview.

"meanwhile HE is the REASON SHE has her powers in the first place"

Sure, Tony whispered in her ear every night to go serve as a guinea pig for Nazis in order to get her revenge on him. I forgot this part of Wanda's backstory, silly me.

"Falsely imprisoning the heroes that didn't sign The Accords because he's a cunt"

Tony don't have any power or authority to imprison people, and the heroes he stopped got incarcerated because they indeed broke the law, you jackass.

"Being technically responsible for all the deaths caused by Wanda in Wandavision and DSATMOM because if he didn't kill her parents with his mortar..."

I don't think you know what "technically" means.

"then her and Pietro wouldn't have went to Hydra thus not getting their powers from The Mind Stone"

You know what would have actually prevented all the deaths Wanda caused ? Her not willingly joining Nazis to get her powers and going on a murder spree.

"And you are probably thinking "But he sacrificed himself at the end of Endgame !""

To save the whole universe indeed. That and quite a few other things, such as :

Outright refusing to help terrorists and getting tortured as a result.

Risking his life to save Yinsen.

Saving Afghans villagers from terrorists.

Saving Pepper and SHIELD's agents from Obadiah Stane.

Actively saving people on a daily basis, and this for a decade.

Developing a shit ton of armors to protect people more efficiently.

Saving New York and the world overall from Chitauris.

Stopping Killian from taking over the USA.

Curing Pepper from the Extremis treatment.

Designing Veronica with Bruce.

Fighting Hulk to protect Johannesburg.

Saving the world once again, alongside the Avengers.

Awarding promising students with the funds to develop their own projects and inventions.

Granting his tech to Peter and designing for him two suits that allowed him to save many lives.

Saving Stephen's life from Ebony Maw.

Helping the Avengers to travel in other timelines.

"Let me ask you this : If Strange had hold Tony that the only way to defeat Thanos is if Tony sacrificed himself would Tony do it"

It's literally what happened during Endgame, you fucking bozo. What do you think was the meaning of this scene ?

And it's not like it was something new, he was always ready to die for others' sake, right from the start, did you even watched the first Avengers movie ?

No wait, even better : Have you at least watched the beginning of his first solo movie ?

I wasn't expecting anything from Tony antis but sucking that hard at watching a movie is quite impressive ngl.

"Bottom line is MCU Wanda sucks and Tony Stark sucks"

Yeah no shit, that's pretty easy to say when you're making up lies to support your hate boner.

So in conclusion, this dude has no idea of what he's talking about and neither does Tony antis in general for using these bs as arguments.

[spooky-donut-ghost-house]

Question

What the fuck happened to Wanda's accent after Civil War? Did EO just get tired of doing it so they let her use her American accent?

[breckstonevailskier]

Quill definitely has a lot more leeway in his reaction to learning that the grapefruit in front of him murdered his girlfriend than say, Tony has to finding out that his parents were murdered by Bucky. For Quill, Gamora has just been murdered, and the person who murdered her is standing right in front of him, and Thanos did it entirely of his own accord. By comparison, Tony found out about what really happened to his parents 25 years after the fact, and while Bucky may have killed them, he was not responsible for it; HYDRA was, as the people who made him into the Winter Soldier.

I think the main issue is that IW is so unashamedly on Thanos' side that some people feel way too comfortable blaming the heroes for the Snap, and the idea that he won because he traded lives whereas the heroes didn't is not something that sets him apart from other villains - that's what all villains do!

Which is the reason why it's kinda a problematic issue that Endgame has the heroes only win by trading lives (Natasha's and Tony's). I think I saw someone once suggest that if Thanos didn't have so much narrative protection, they could've made it where the stones don't work properly for him because of the fact that he's willing to trade lives, but they do work properly for the heroes because of their refusal to trade lives.

Quill's reaction was very human and personally I don't blame him one bit, just like I don't blame Gamora for giving out the location of the Soul Stone upon watching Nebula writhing in pain.

And just like I don't blame Wanda (and the other Earth-based Avengers) for wanting to make every effort to keep Vision alive.

On Titan, it's in-character for Quill to react the way he did to realizing that Thanos murdered Gamora (since he reacted the same way to learning that his mother was murdered by Ego). But I don't get why people are inclined to blame him for the Snap because of him losing his temper in that moment. I mean, you've said that there's a problem with heroes being blamed for the actions of the villain, and if anything, Quill losing his temper is really Thanos' fault because if Thanos hadn't just murdered Quill's girlfriend for a rock, Quill wouldn't have something to lose his temper over.

(Though it does make one wonder, if Quill hadn't lost his temper in that moment, had he been able to rein in his temper for even a few moments until the others had gotten the gauntlet off, would things have turned out better for everyone?)

Quill losing his cool could have been easily salvaged by Stephen if he had wanted to, but he needed that to happen.

It's weird that no one ever mentions that Thanos knew very well what he was doing. Mantis wasn't mind-controlling him as in keeping track of what he was thinking or saying, nor was she making him say anything. All she did was keep him under some form of hypnosis so that he wouldn't move, that's it. His words, his thoughts... all that was his. So is it really that surprising that Thanos said that to provoke Quill? He needed a way out of Mantis' control, after all.

I think the main issue is that IW is so unashamedly on Thanos' side that some people feel way too comfortable blaming the heroes for the Snap, and the idea that he won because he traded lives whereas the heroes didn't is not something that sets him apart from other villains - that's what all villains do!

But IW tried to make the villain sympathetic to such an extent that you got people saying they should have killed Vision on the spot, or they blame Quill, or they say Stephen was playing god, or they claim the Snap is Steve's fault... anything to not blame the only one responsible here: Thanos.

Quill's reaction was very human and personally I don't blame him one bit, just like I don't blame Gamora for giving out the location of the Soul Stone upon watching Nebula writhing in pain.

[crystalclearwright]

[rosemilo]

A character journey can't get any more epic than that of Loki ♡

[lucianalight]

You say the show characters weren't divided to "good" and "evil" but they are still stripping people and putting collars their necks which personally I find pretty messed up. This is my problem and why I can't bring myself to watch season 2 because everything I end up seeing seems like the TVA is still doing horrible things and not treated with the weight it should. Like, there's torture scene, but it's supposed to be okay because turns out it wasn't really physical? Like thats still torture that crosses the line way past grey in my opinion.

It's these two images for me is why I can't be asked to see any of the TVA as just grey especially it's asked while Loki is still called a villain. He didn't do a fraction as bad as they did.

If what I saw was Mobius owing up to being wrong about believing in the TVA and how his glorious purpose hurt people instead of seeing Loki say he invaded New York because he was mad at Thor and Odin, maybe I wouldn't still mad at the show

The actions are wrong, it doesn't matter who they're against what justification they have for using them. I rather have a story the condemns those actions and finds a better way than one that keeps the system with only a promise that now they'll only target the bad people

What I've been trying to say and said before in my s2 review, is that the narrative is neutral this time. It just shows you the story and leaves you to decide for yourself how you want to judge characters and their actions. That's sth very important for me in a story. I always have an instant knee jerk reaction to any blunt sort of message/framing even if it's a good one. I hate it when I feel like the writer is holding up a sign and telling me "look look it's a bad/good action or you should love/hate this character". No, thank you very much I can think for myself. The writer's feelings towards the characters can also bleed through so you understand when a character is treated by distaste and another with adoration.

These were the most important issues I had with s1. Because it stopped me from doing what I love most, in-universe analysis. Sth the fandom were doing before TR. No one told us, what happened to Loki before Avengers, we were shown clues. No one told us the reasoning behind every sentence of the characters and what they meant. But we analyzed every single action and expression. We put the pieces of puzzle together and built the picture. I was happy doing just that, until with TR the in-universe analysis didn't make sense so we had to look what caused it from out-universe pov.

Now with s2 having that neutrality I want, I don't care what the creators wanted to say as long as the characterization and actions make sense and are consistent with how I see the canon material. That's why Loki's line about New York didn't make me angry.

That hatred and dismissal toward Loki we felt in TR, IW and S1 is also gone. So having that irritating narrative of s1 out of the way and a better writing, the characters look grey to me. Which means like any other human they do bad things and good things. I didn't got the feeling that any of wrong actions are framed as sth good. Not putting collar on people(they were actually uncomfortable), not the torture scene(which I hated as I explained in my review) and not what TVA was doing all this time. In fact one of the few instances of framing in the narrative is that their atrocities were acknowledged.

The promotions of S2 were terrible though. I have no idea what they were thinking. None of the trailers were interesting and who would buy TVA merch? They're not even aesthetically beautiful and why would anyone want one of those creepy posters anyway? Although that's what happens when you sideline your main character in s1 and then you have nothing except creepy totalitarian merch for promotion smh. So yeah I get what you mean.

The ending also wasn't like now they're targeting the bad guys. It was shown that they won't interfere with what happens in timelines unless one of HWR's variants start a war and their intervention was needed. I haven't watched ant-man 3 but I assume they were referring to it when they said one of his variants made trouble but it was handled and their intervention wasn't needed. So they just intervene when the people of a timeline can't handle sth themselves. I also got the impression that they were changing their whole system to sth new.

In the end I hope it's been clear that by posting about the series, I'm not insisting, encouraging or recommending others to watch it. Because I know what Loki means to us. And Because I've seen many of my mutuals didn't like s2. Some did. S1 still makes me as angry as the first time I watched it but I liked s2(that doesn't mean I won't criticize it though). No two people are ever gonna agree with each other on everything. So it's ultimately a choice everyone need to make themselves.

[livinces]

No one wants to talk about how horrendously the MCU has been treating and characterizing Wanda Maximoff since Civil War. And that is largely because the majority of MCU fans are Tony stans and/or have never even read a Wiki page for the 616 or 1610, let alone a comic book.