#anti dante basco

[punkeropercyjackson]

Zutara shippers be giving their ship too much credit in terms of depth.Z/K isn't 'dark' or 'objectively better'(an actual descriptor one of 'em used when they jumped onto my anti Z/K post),it just has conflict and no actually those aren't the same thing.Kataang is more complex and deep than Z/K and on a meta level Zutara is very standard within the context of the history of cisheteronormativity,amatonormativity and fetishization of interracial relathionships and with how non-standard and original Zuko and Katara's writing is it dosen't make sense for them to be attracted to eachother at any point in the show,comics or games.Whatever you want think of Maiko,Mai and Zuko have a real connection and their feelings work in the structure of their personalities.That applies to Katoph,Yuetara,Jetara,Zukka,Ty Luko and Jetko too so it's not an issue of noncanon shipping but noncanon characterization and gaslighting of what happened in the story and problematic pairings aren't bad but there needs to be a certain level of belivability to them i.e just look at all the Tyzula subtext and Azutara feels much more likely than Zutara and and provides a better story both in-universe and once again on a meta with the need for wlw representation.Zutara shippers may often be woc but they're pretty obviously sheltered ones if Z/K is completely unironically their idea of a revolutionary feminist ship and 'unpalpable storytelling'.Tbh all this could've been solved if they just did what i did and made Atlasonas to ship with Zuko and not just erase his personality to pretend he has none

[atla-confessions]

So what i actually came here for:Dante Basco is a good voice for Zuko but irl he gives Iroh.That pervy old misogynist man energy(see him selling Zutara shirts.Nigga wtf were you messaging with that)

X

[katy-89]

"yall need to stop this “but katara choose aang!” nonsense"

oh i'm sorry if we keep acknowledging CANON and not OC katara and ao3 fanfictions

Idk, 3 canon seasons and Katara's choice were pretty clear

"choose" is also not the exact word here, because jet excluded, Katara was only and ONLY interested in Aang and no one else

sorry for that

[rifari2037]

How in the world Zutara fandom disrespect the rest of the story? Analysis and critic a story is common thing, it happen in literature, movie, and arts too.

While calling VA an a**hole just because he prefer another pairing is something else. It's toxic!

[vlackevil]

GOOD NEWS, ONE OF WRITERS OF ATLA CONFRIMS ZUTARA IS TOXIC, ZUKO IS A BAD INFLUENCE FOR KATARA:

There is the writer

And Dante Basco talk about when Katara say Zuko end his life if hurt Aang

HE SAY IT!!!

And Janet and Dante agree that.

[coconutsaiyan]

Lmfao that atla multishipper account really blocked me after I pulled the counter arguments of Dante’s activities with the zutara fandom.

Way to show how you really feel about the situation.

[omegansamurai]

You know what would be hilarious?

If Netflix just saw how toxic these Kataangers are (bullying Dante and maybe Dallas for liking Zutara) and thought "Oh my gosh, these people need help," and would definitely make Zutara canon in the live-action just to spite them.

Imagine the all diapers that will be soiled. XD

Kataangers:

Netflix not giving an eff:

(Sorry, not sorry.)

[atla-confessions]

'did dante basco actually do anything bad or are people just butthurt that he likes zutara'

Yes,he's thristed after Katara a lot(not comics Katara mind you),joined in on Mai bashing(agreeing on the jokes calling her fat)yet also ships Maiko and made a concubine joke about them and made Toph's VA uncomfortable on a livestream by saying Zuko should grab Katara and kiss her because 'that's what you're supposed to do when a girl is angry at you'.Considering that Rain chick from a few weeks ago everybody was discoursing over sexualized Katara too and also got off scott free by all the Z/Ks jumping to make it about people 'bullying them' over their shitfest ship,it's plenty obvious y'all want people hating Zitaras to be about shipping and not y'all being mean-spirited weirdos

X

[emrys-merlin]

I'm in many fandoms, but never in my life have I seen something like this

Being this mad and angry that the fire nation (the nation that in the canon series started a war, committed two genocide and colonized the world) are written as shitty people in a new book in the Sozin's era is truly something else

Wtf? It's funny because even Zuko acknowledge how shitty his nation was in book 3 :/

Also yall are accusing "Kataang fandom" to praise Bryke's writing.....aren't yall still obsessing over atla as well, Bryke's creation? Aren't yall still obsessing over Zuko and his redemption arc, written by Bryke? We are pretending that Zuko is written by poc writers now? How does that work? Atla is good or bad when it's convenient?

Aren't yall still praising Dante Basco, even if he made weird comments about Mai and Katara (even Janet was visibly uncomfortable with it)?

And please, stop pretending that you care about Aang's writing. You don't. None of you care. You are just mad that he ended up with Katara, and that’s ruined your self insert ship with Zuko. That’s the real reason you all hate Aang. That's why all the anti aang posts are about Zutara and made by Zutara fans

If y'all truly care about "non-celibate monk" you wouldn't have shipped him with Toph 🤦‍♂️

Atla fandom is genuinely one of the worst fandom ever

A cartoon for kids holy shit....

[rifari2037]

Can anyone explain to me why Dante Basco gets so much hate from canon shipper except the fact that he vocaly Zutara shipper?

Also, can anyone explain to me why Zutara shipper are the toxic one, while canon shipper proudly wishes them get beaten on the street and die slowly?

Shipping war on Twitter so wild and not healthy recently.

Instead posting content about their ship, they keep talking about Zutara and bashing the shipper, yet calling them 'obsessed' when they defend themselves.

I appreciate every opinion from other fandom about the show, even though sometimes I disagree. It could be a fun debate if both fandoms respect each other.

But, I can't stand toxic fandom behavior who bashing someone personally!

[stardust948]

Everyone salute the Captain

listening to the crossroads of destiny episode of the braving the elements podcast and dante is really out there fighting for zutara with his whole chest, thank you for your service captain 🫡

[vlackevil]

Michael Dante Dimartino and Bryan Konietzko confirms their favorite relationship on season 3:

Janet: What is your favorite dynamics or relationship to see develop in season 3

Mike: It will controversy, but it’s Aang and Katara relationship, you know, go to blossom to its full potential.

Janet: Great answer, but guess what: Canon controversy

(EVEN DANTE BASCO ADMITTED LOVES MAIKO)

Dante: Everyone likes zutara but i means watching Zuko and Mai I’m vibing.

(HELL YEAH FOR MAIKO)

[crienselt]

So a few days ago I saw someone (elsewhere) questioning Zutara fans’ excitement about the scarf scene. It wasn't a mean comment, more general curiosity. And well, I didn't have time to get my thoughts out then. But they haven't gone away, so I'm getting them out here:

Here’s what everyone need to understand about Zutara shippers. We were baited baaaad during the initial run of the show–from the magazines to the shorts to the trailers and how they were cut. And Zuko and Katara’s relationship on the show certainly underwent a lot of development and featured objectively emotional–if not overtly romantic–moments between the two. We were well fed, and we had reason to hope. Right up to the end, we had reason to hope.

The shipping wars were the shipping wars, of course, with all the usual tensions; there are always going to be overzealous fans of each (and any) pairing willing to get toxic. Generally, I think Kataang fans were always jealous of Zutara’s popularity and Zutara fans, post finale, were jealous of Kataang’s, well, canon status. But really it operated much the same as any other large fandom’s shipping wars.

And then came Bryke and the panel where they showed and mocked Zutara fan art, some of which had been created by teens if not straight up children. Then came their, “Come on, kids! It was never going to work. Zutara is just dark and intriguing.”* And the pièce de résistance, their telling Zutara shippers (specifically girls/women) that they were doomed to have failed romantic relationships. Like, what? The thing with the art was arguably cruel, and the rest of it was oh, so condescending. Just all around not well done. 

The after effect was that Zutara went from being simply a fanon pairing to a wrong pairing. The ATLA fandom at large became a far more hostile place for Zutara fans, who were now more commonly deemed delusional and viewed as lesser fans. The vitriol only got worse when the show came to Netfilx and the next wave of antis rolled up with their co-opting of legitimate socio-political terms to paint Zutara not just as wrong but morally corrupt if not evil. It’s all very puritanical.**

So Zutara fans need to be reminded that we weren’t delusional, and we aren’t alone. It’s why it means so much to know that Dante Basco and Mae Whitman shipped their characters. And that so many other VAs came out as Zutara supporters too: Jack De Sena, Michaela Jill Murphy, Grey DeLisle, Janet Varney--even the cabbage man. For it to be revealed that it was discussed in the writers room; that the writers fought over it; that it WAS a canon possibility. (And that writers Joshua Hamilton and John O’Bryan are perfectly comfortable admitting their preference for Zutara.) To know that the Elizabeth Welch Ehasz described Zuko and Katara as an “Avatar-style Mr. and Mrs. Smith,” in the script for The Southern Raiders, and used the phrase “Zutara-feuling synchronicity and cooperation” to describe their action sequences. To see Giancarlo Volpe, a Kataanger, admit Zutara might been the better pairing in retrospect and choose a quiet scene between them (to see their “chemistry”) as what he’d most look forward to in the live action adaptation. It’s why we cling to the artwork done by Korean animation director. We aren’t delusional. We aren’t alone.

But try telling that to the general fandom, right? Most are ignorant of a lot of this, particularly Hamilton and O’Bryan’s revelations re: the writers room. A lot of Zutara fans don't even seem to know. But being baited by Netflix on their official accounts? Oh, people see that. And we are reminded in a big way that we aren't delusional and we aren't alone. And everyone else has to remember it too.

So, of course, we're having fun clowning over the scarf scene. And I think most Zutara fans know we are clowning. I don't think most expect to get canon Zutara in live action because of one little scene or the fact that their Netflix icons are facing each other. (I headcanon that that was totally the doing of Zutara shipper on staff, though, lol. Because there are a lot of us, and we are everywhere.)

And this is okay. Zutara has been doing just fine as a fanon ship. Meanwhile, NATLA might actually do Kataang justice. It always worked better as a future ship. (Really all the pairings do. But I especially don't ever need to see another 12 year old kissing let alone making out, in animation or live action, ever again.) There's a reason Padme and Anakin don't get together in Phantom Menace, after all. Also, there's always the chance they could give us Dante's or Mae's headcanon of them basically suppressing their feelings and choosing duty over love/right person-wrong time. And the odds of getting some more moments to clown over are high enough. 

Anyway, TLDR: Zutara has been made to feel like an out-of-nowhere crack ship and the live action crumbs remind us that it is not. And this is at least partially why we are enjoying it. (Because, also, it's just fun!)

*Side tangent: I’ve never gotten this dark and intriguing comment. Even during Season 1, the height of the capture fic era, Zutara was always a ship fundamentally about hope, predicated on Zuko's redemption. (Back in the day, there were also plenty of antis arguing that there was no way Zuko would ever be one of the gaang.) And they say “intriguing” like it’s a bad thing? Are we not supposed to be interested in the relationships of their characters???

**There have been some very good think pieces written lately on late stage capitalism and consumption as morality. Worth googling.

[redwiccanrobin]

I know I’ve been ranting a lot about antis, but it’s just because the way they’ve taken to voicing their dislike of Zutara bothers me. So, bear with me.

There was this woman on TikTok that I used to follow and who made a lot of ATLA analysis. And she was a Zutara shipper who would speak on some of the themes that led her to be a Zutara shipper. All was going fine until someone made a video attacking her for liking Zutara. They called her morally corrupt, a terrible person, and claimed she was racist for liking a fictional ship. I watched as this woman I followed then become convinced that she was those things and she swiftly took all her ATLA videos down and never talked about the show again.

Antis are bullies. I’m not sugarcoating it. They go out of their way to make people feel guilty for liking Zuko and Katara as a romantic couple. They sit on a high horse and scream at us about how we don’t understand oppression. How we must hate women of color. How we’re delusional. They accused Dante Basco, a man of color, of being a pedophile. Before I turned off my anon, I would be harassed for a long time if I had posted something talking about Zutara. I never answered them because I was too scared it would encourage more. Something that I’m not going to stand by and accept are people who don’t know me making assumptions on my morals based on fiction I enjoy. Get over yourselves, antis.

[yenleak]

My controversial opinions about Zutara fandom as a part of it:

1. This community should admit its mistakes as well as point out inadequate individuals here.

Fans who spread sexist and violent ideas on ship to please their delusions are not good fans and should not represent us. We are very supportive of each other in this fandom, but if a person is talking outright shit, then it's better for us to point something out. Let's normalize being critical in your own community.

2. Criticizing the characters is good. Expressing an opinion about their actions is just as good. Calling characters slurs and spreading hatred against them? People became too comfortable with it.

Aang and Mai are exactly the same imperfect characters as the rest. Mai is a victim of Bryke's writing as much as Katara. But if they wronged Katara in terms of her role as a character, Mai was not given this role at all. They didn't even plan to give her any development. She is not a piece of shit for being flat, and I actually love how some fics reveal her character from a new angle. Her demonization by people is caused only by the desire to make Katara look like the better partner for Zuko (southern lights is a good example). Which is kinda mysoginistic. Mai might not be great, but she's never been bad.

The same can be said about Aang. I love him as a separate character, but not as a partner for Katara, and I can think of at least seven reasons why, but calling him a nasty harasser is kinda too much. This is also Bryke's fault and how abruptly they decided to show us that Kataang is the final couple. They hurried and made something weird and messy out of their love line. I know that this is a popular topic in our fandom and, again, I love reading character analyses and anti kataang metas. I 100% admit that he made Katara feel uncomfortable throughout the third season. It's just that this constant villanization of him, the main character, sometimes looks forced.

3. Katara would never give up her body and freedom against her own will. Arranged marriage fics do not convey her character in any way!

This is my personal opinion, which you may disagree with, but these fanfictions are such bullshit. If the whole ship is about how they understand each other, how ! choose! to be with each other, then why making them fall in love in such conditions? We are the ones talking about how Zutara is definitely not colonized x colonizer ship, but these fics put them in such position. The only trope associated with arranged marriage that I like is when 1) Katara marries Zuko in her late 20s and after the war and both of them are friends at the beginning; 2) when it is agreed for the benefit of both sides

4. STOP WHITEWASHING THEM PLEASE!

5. Zuko and Katara will never be parallel to Dramione and other similar ships.

After all, if Dramione is all about from enemies to lovers, then Zutara is from enemies to friends to lovers which makes a huge difference.

6. Katara is not a sub...

7. There's nothing wrong with stating that Zutara is for the girls.

I've seen a lot of people shitting on this opinion, but the only male openly shipping them is Dante Basco. We often point out how Zutara is made through female gaze, so what is wrong about this statement?

((anyways. I love our community so so so much! You all are wonderful, from meta makers to writers and artists. Never listen to antis and never let them make you feel bad about your choices. After all it is their choice to spread negativity which immediately questions their mindset. ))

[ecoterrorist-katara]

Twitter found your posts about Firelady Katara, and they are being really rude about it. It's super annoying, I'm sorry

Anon, I appreciate the heads up & the nice sentiment! In the future though, I’d prefer not to know about how people react to my posts unless they’re being very nice. I don’t want to engage with negativity & smoothbrain takes, but I am VERY easily tempted lmao. My background in competitive debate / academia / leftist politics means I’m extremely argumentative, but I know nothing good comes out of Internet arguments so I need help ignoring antis. 

Anyway it’s helpful for me to remember that I’m in the Zutara fandom because I love to see people inspiring each other to create things. I’ve read so many wonderful metas, feasted my eyes on incredible fan art and edits, laughed at funny posts, foamed at the mouth over epic fics, and generally have been in awe of what this fandom has produced over the years. I mean…we’ve had colouring books! An EP! Animatics where Dante Basco himself lent his voice! This fandom has been around since before I was allowed to use the family computer and it’s so cool to me that it’s still thriving. By contrast, reacting snarkily to content that other people create is like…the opposite of generative and does nothing to better a community — which is why I fundamentally don’t care for antis and don’t want them to be part of my fandom experience. Anyone can make their half-baked opinion known online, but it takes spirit and dedication to create things you like for your ship. Anyway here’s a reminder that ZK Big Bang signups are still open for one more week! I still haven’t decided which role I want to play in this event but I encourage everyone to sign up!