#anti baelfire

[roonil-wazlib-in-the-tardis]

Oh my God. Oh my God oh my God ohmygodohmygod am I in the upside down what the fuck is going on I'm in a OUAT Facebook group and there are people fighting for their lives in the comments to defend the fact that Neal, in his 20s, who is literally actually a couple centuries old, was in a relationship with 16 YEAR OLD EMMA.

She was 16

16

They keep whining about how it would be the same age gap if they were teenagers.

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TWO MINORS AND A GROWN ASS ADULT DATING A MINOR

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK

THEY ARE SHAMELESSLY DEFENDING PEOPLE IN THEIR 20S DATING MINORS.

WHAT. THE. ACTUAL. FUCK.

THEY'RE COMPARING IT TO CAPTAIN SWAN.

2.

GROWN.

CONSENTING.

ADULTS.

Anyway Neal Cassidy is actually scum and I can't believe that it's been like 10 years and we still have to have this argument.

[ouatnextgen]

Prince Squared/ Sleeping Princes Ship Headcanons

This is one of my OUAT Next-Gen ships, Neal (or Leo, as I call him) Nolan and Prince Philip II (or PJ for short)

I've always liked the idea of these two ending up together. Snow White and Prince Charming's son with Sleeping Beauty and Prince Philip's son? Makes sense, right?

Tropes: Rivals to lovers || Opposites attract || Hardcore denial || Flirting as a joke that turns real || Each think they’re the only one with feelings || Both think they don’t deserve the other 

Songs: Clarity- Zedd || Next to Me- Imagine Dragons || A Rush of Blood to the Head- Coldplay || Before You Go- Lewis Capaldi || Broken- lovleytheband || High Dive- Andrew McMahon

Headcanons Under the Cut: (All pre-relationship)

They’ve been friends since they were babies, but aren’t as close as Gideon and Hope.

They started rivaling each other at the ripe-old-age of eight, after PJ beat Leo at the third-grade spelling bee. (winning word was “irony”) 

Leo caught feelings first, in middle school. PJ didn’t start crushing until their freshman year of high school.

Leo is a jock and a “straight-A” student, while PJ is a theater kid and a “slacker” (he has dyspraxia so it’s not really his fault) so they don’t cross paths in school a lot.

They started really bonding late freshman year, when they had detention together, (Leo for starting a fight, PJ for skipping class), Breakfast Club style.

They like to hang out behind the school, just by themselves without any of their other friends.

Leo helps PJ with his homework, and PJ helps Leo with his social life.

Leo calls PJ “Philip” or “Philip Jr.” to annoy him, and “shy guy” when he’s being soft. Similarly, PJ calls Leo “Leopold” or “Your Royal Annoyingness” to annoy him, and “golden boy” when he’s being nice.

PJ knows how Leo feels about his first name, and always corrects people when they call him “Neal.”

PJ is one (1) inch taller than Leo, and lords it over him all the time.

Meanwhile, Leo is three months older than PJ, and lords that over him all the time.

PJ is very touchy-feely, throwing his arm around Leo’s shoulder, or bumping into him if they’re walking. Leo is more reserved, and does the same only if they’re alone.

PJ has dated two guys before. Leo hasn’t dated anyone.

Leo is just coming to terms with the fact that he’s Not Straight after compheting for a while, but PJ, who has a lesbian godmother in the form of Mulan, has known since he hit puberty that he’s gay.

Everyone knows that they have crushes on each other (except for themselves).

Snow and Aurora have a bet going on for how long it will take for them to get together.

[boosyboo9206]

The one thing that I will never forgive Once Upon a Time for is killing off Neal.

Not because I'm a swanthief/swanfire shipper and wanted them together so bad. But because killing him off was complete and total fan service to pave the way for captain swan.

I'm not the biggest fan of captain swan because, honestly, they're a little toxic for each other. But, also, because Hook's only purpose after a season or two was only Emma.

At least, for Neal, he had other purposes. Henry's Dad. Rumple's son - literally his humanity and the whole reason Rumple did everything he did. He was friends with Belle. And Wendy. He had reasons to exist outside of Emma and could have completely moved on from her in time and find someone else.

They could have had a healthy co-parenting relationship and been friends. And, while it would have been nice to, at least, see them try a romantic relationship again, the time had totally passed. There's too much history and pain and things that happened for them to work. So her not wanting to try again with him and be with Hook could have still happened.

Killing off Neal was a copout and fan service and a terrible choice. They also totally ruined Hook by not giving him a purpose outside of Emma after/around, like, season 3.

[wastingstarsss]

So I’m thinking too hard about Rumple again (surprise surprise) and holy fuck. OUAT really tried to convince us that crippling yourself and (most likely) walking home on that broken leg so your son doesn’t grow up fatherless was the act of a coward. That’s insane. And like- Rumple has to live with that forever. I mean Yh as Mr Gold he can use magic to walk without a cane but I bet the ache is still there, and if not he’s always gonna at least know that he did that. He broke his body for his son. It’s essentially branding himself, and what is branding usually associated with? Villainy. The branding of a villain. BUT! HES! NOT! A! COWARD! SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE FOLKS AT THE BACK

[kazoosandfannypacks]

Baelfire was an incredible character, with compelling motives and great potential, but his character was doomed the moment they revealed he was Henry's father, not only because they'd already painted Henry's dad in such a negative light, but also because this pitted him directly against Killian Jones, whom the writers claimed to have wanted to end up with Emma "since the beginning."

This is nothing against Killian; Killian Jones is my favorite character, Captain Swan is my OTP, and I'm certainly not bothered in the slightest that Emma ended up with Killian.

However, I was also such a huge fan of Baelfire for the first season or two. He was an artist, he never gave up, he made lots of pasta, he was clever and resourceful, and he always saw the good in people. I would've loved to see him grow and develop as a character.

He always wanted a family, but he kept losing them. His mom left. His dad let him go. He sacrificed himself for the Darlings. He left Killian's crew. He didn't even become one of the lost boys- he spent centuries without hope of a family and never got one.

He also always wanted to be a hero, but he lost all chance of that when they made him Henry's father and set him up to fail.

It's hard to put it all into proper words- I'm not a huge fan of Neal Cassidy, but man, did I love Baelfire.

[oautincorrectquotes]

Neal: *Pulls up in a random car*

Emma: Whos car is that?

Neal: I don't know, it wasn't locked.

[rumbelle-scream]

something just connected in my brain reading this rumbelle fic with hook/neal side pair... hook did love baelfire, it's canon. that's his stepson, really. son of the woman he loved. a boy he taught himself. a man he'll miss. i missed that part of the story by being mad that the show went off the rails. it's cute.

[themeepyfreak]

One of the reasons that I could never warm up to Hook that is completely glossed over in the fandom is how much he screwed Baelfire over with seemingly no remorse. The narrative tries so hard to write off Hook as a good person and Baelfire’s friend in the later seasons that I don’t think people really don’t understand how despicable his actions were.

First, he either convinced Bae’s mother to leave her family or assisted in Bae’s mother leaving her family. I don’t blame Hook too much for that since the majority of the blame is definitely on Milah, but Hook didn’t need to antagonize Rumple and threaten Bae’s only other parent. (They did have Hook address that this was wrong of him on the show though which is more than they usually do.) And even if Hook told Bae that they wanted to go back for him, the truth is that they did not. Bae was 4-6 years old when Milah left, and Rumple killed Milah when Bae was 14 years old in London, so Hook and Milah were together for 8-10 years (common law married at the very least) in which they never actually came back for Bae or even informed him that his mother was alive. If Rumple hadn’t become the Dark One, Bae would have died fighting the Ogres, and there would have been nobody to come back to. I doubt they actually had any intentions of going back to Bae; Hook just said that to give Bae a more positive outlook on the mother that abandoned him.

Then, he built up Bae’s trust for the sole purpose of gaining information to kill his father. He did save Bae from the mermaids and sheltered him for a while, but all of his niceness (until he got attached to Bae) was to gain Bae’s trust so that Bae could give information on his father. Hook’s friendship with Bae that they boast about in later seasons was dependent on a lie and mostly faked on one side.

His main offense that is glossed over the most in canon is that he abandoned Bae and sold him out to Pan. This is debatably one of the worst abandonments in the show, and it is never talked about.

- First, Hook does this within the same day that Bae found out about his mom abandoning him and his dad killing his mom (rubbing salt into the wound). And despite how it appears in the show, this was not a split second decision since Hook (or his crew) had to physically call up the Lost Boys to get Bae. The Lost Boys were mainly on the island and didn’t lurk near the ship without being prompted (or else Bae couldn’t have been on deck when Hook was playing friends with him in fear of being seen). When Hook was giving his “I can change” speech to Bae, the Lost Boys were already called or else they wouldn’t have been there immediately afterwards. Maybe Hook would have hidden Bae if Bae agreed, but he had already sold Bae out by that point.

- Second (and why this abandonment is one of the worst), Hook intentionally sold Bae to a known psychopath that he knew would mentally, physically, and emotionally torture him. Hook knows the Lost Boys and how bad Pan is. That’s why he and his crew are always on the ship rather than on the island. That’s why he tries to avoid Neverland even if he is stuck in the realm. That’s why he hides Bae from the Lost Boys in the first place. Not to mention that selling Bae out was for a selfish reason (to be in Pan’s favor and gain access out of Neverland) and can’t even be argued as being in Bae’s best interests.

- Third, knowing where Bae was and that Bae was suffering, Hook left Bae in Neverland for centuries, perpetuating the initial abandonment. How do you think it felt for Bae to see Hook enter and leave the island/realm over and over again for hundreds of years, leaving Bae on Neverland over and over again? (Part of me wonders whether that’s why Pan let Hook off the island in the first place, to be able to lord about it to Bae.) I strongly suspect that Bae tried to petition to or stowaway with Hook (since he was trying to escape), but Hook refused him and turned him back to Pan (since Hook was in Pan’s employ) which had to hurt worse.

Maybe I could let it go if Hook showed remorse or it was addressed in canon, but instead, the opposite happened. Hook painted this picture of him and Bae as friends (even though most of their friendship was Hook using Bae for information) to bond with Emma after Bae “died”. He lied by omission of all the pain he caused Bae which is never clarified in canon. After Bae actually dies, he tries to rewrite his and Bae’s history again when describing their “friendship” to Henry. And the worst part is that nobody can contest it since Bae is dead in all of these scenes.

Not to mention that when they find out that Bae is alive in Neverland (which Hook did not seem happy about in the slightest), Hook decides to go after Emma, the woman that he knows Bae loves and that loves Bae (since Emma wasn’t quiet about that at all). They are trying to find Henry, and Hook is purposely baiting Bae with talks of his and Emma’s “dalliance” (which implies way more than a kiss). Hook makes it into a competition, as if Emma is a trophy, and continues pursuing Emma in front of Bae even though Emma said “No” countless times. And despite supposedly backing out of the competition after Neverland, he still continues to harass Emma until they kiss immediately after Bae dies and get together in the end. Whether you’re a Swanfire fan or not, the entire thing is rude and disrespectful to Bae.

[sassyandclassy94]

Words of Comfort

In my own personal SwanFire Storybrooke AU, because of the custody arrangement Baelfire would spend some time with Milah until he’s 17 (he would start to make excuses to not see her). Anyway, in my AU, he has low self esteem and self-confidence issues and Milah’s the main reason for that.

She’s always making him feel like he’s useless/worthless, belittling his dreams and goals, and once he begins dating Emma, she pretty much tells him in so many words that she’s too good for him and if they do end up marrying, it’ll never last. He doesn’t ever say much or talk about it but Rumpel has an idea of what’s up. Why? Because after almost every unfortunate weekend spent with his mother Bae would come home in a sad, depressed state; withdrawing from his father and drawing as a way of privately expressing his feelings. He also knows because Milah did the same to him while they were married: belittling everything about him every chance she got. Her emotional abuse and the neglect of their son was the reason they divorced. Before the divorce, her abuse was always toward Rumpel. Now, it was directed at Baelfire. Perhaps looking at him and being around him made her feel guilty but he didn’t care. It angered him that Milah would treat their own son like that. Almost every visit ended with a very heated phone call, always concluding with Milah denying her behavior, blaming Rumpel for Baelfire’s ‘mental problems’ before she hung up abruptly.

More on AO3

[moonbeamnights]

OUAT AU that I need in my life: Milah the selkie. Because this woman has the most selkie whose human husband stole her seal coat and now she's trapped vibes that you can possibly have without actually being a selkie. And Rumple totally just... Would Do That.

Also the Millian in this AU! Killian going with her to look for the seal skin or finding it himself and giving it back, just helping her find it either way 🥺 The romance!

[swanfireprincessmydear]

Swanfire Month 2022 Day 24 | What Character Do You Think Would Be The Most Supportive?

I’ve seen lots of people say Henry, Snow, David, and sometime Rumple and Belle too but I think the obvious answer is Pan.

He has the most to gain from them being together. Think about it. If Emma and Neal had never met, then he never would have been able to get his hands on the Heart of The Truest Believer.

And besides, if they get back together, they might produce another heart for him to use for his own means.

He’d be their biggest cheerleader for sure!

[rumbelle-scream]

[SIGHS IN COMPLETE DISAPPOINTMENT]

Henry never had an actual dad. Emma never even had closure (even in the afterlife she still needed him.) Rumple couldn't even reconcile with his son.

Did Neal, who resurrected his father to go back to TLWM, ever reunite with his son and the woman he loves? No. <<Who did, however? Who the fuck did, in his place?>>

It's not like Baelfire is a character who despises magic and was tempted by it (in resurrecting Rumple) or anything. Not like that's the plot or any somesuch. It's not like Neal Cassidy is Baelfire who experienced what it's like to fight magic, and to live without it. It's not like he's comfortable with his cunning more than magic, or anything. It's definitely not like he taught Emma what a magic-escapist can do. It's not like he's the person who was Emma's most trusted until he betrayed her, and it's not like he didn't truly escape magic.

And it's not like that's his character arc, or that he and Emma are intertwined or whatever. It's not like we need a character arc, even. Just kill Neal off, put in Loverboy (because we won't actually deliver on that 'lOvE tRIanGLe'), then make it make sense. We need a cashgrab more than plot.

Ten years later, and I’m still upset that they killed Neal in ouat

[ouatsnark]

Thoughts on the blow confession?

'If this show completely changes captain hook into Killian Jones, he has no right to be in this show. OUAT is a fairy tale based show that is based on famous fairytale characters and Killian Jones isn't a fairytale Character. Only Captain Hook.'

I personally think it's bullshit.

Because If Killian Jones doesn't belong in the show, none of the characters do.

Regina Mills? Nope. Gone.

Baelfire and Henry? Hella gone?

Emma. Guess what, she's gone too.

Literally no one in the show is the actual character through and through as they're known. That's the whole fricking point. Why is it only targeted at Hook?

I LOVE it when anti-Killian Jones people think they're writing something so profound but you can tell they really haven't thought it through ... or they simply cant because either their bias blinds them or they really are just this stupid.

It's obviously only targeted at Killian because whomever confessed their stupidity here thinks he is in the way of their ship.

But, yes, you're right. The whole point was to take popular fairy tales, give them a little twist and expand on them. Aside from Frozen... I think Anna and Elsa were the closes to their origins... all of the other characters had something major that was different about them. OUAT even added original characters in so, yeah, what about those?

People are insane when they think they have to search for more ways to hate a character. It's OK not to like Killian Jones. But to jump through all these leaps of logic to do so is just psycho.

[kazoosandfannypacks]

"Wishing it Wasn't" by kazoosandfannypacks

Chapter 7/18: Like Everyone Else Has Pairing: CaptainSwan Rating: General Word Count: (1.1K/19.5K) Summary: Season 2 Canon Divergence: When Neal tells Emma he has a fiancée, she claims to have a new boyfriend of her own, and blurts out the first fairytale name she can think of: Captain Hook. Killian agrees to this ruse, but when feelings grow between the two, will the con be more than they can handle? Chapter Summary: Killian and Neal have a hostile heart to heart conversation. Tags: season 2, canon divergence, gun violence in later chapters, angst with a happy ending, fake dating, mild character death, mildly anti neal Author's notes: I hope you guys enjoy the banter in this scene as much as I do! Taglist: @zahara @kmomof4 @jonesfandomfanatic @booksteaandtoomuchtv @jrob64 @tiganasummertree @anmylica @teamhook @undercaffinatednightmare @gingerchangeling @lonelyspectator @caught-in-the-filter @ultraluckycatnd @cs-rylie @pirateprincessofpizza [if you'd like to be added to or removed from this list, hmu in my dms or askbox!]

Also on Ao3!

Killian smiled at Neal, who glared across the table at him while the girls were in the bathroom.

 "Something wrong, Neal?" Killian asked. "Or would you rather I call you Baelfire?"

 "Neal's fine."

 "What's wrong?" Killian asked. "Oh, is this about me selling you out to Peter Pan?"

 "I got over that." Neal said. "It's what you did before that."

 "The part where I rescued your mother from a loveless marriage?" Killian took a calculated sip of the drink in front of him.

 "The part where you tore apart my family."

 "That's not how I remember it." Killian said, setting down his glass. "I remember her coming to me, begging to be rescued from being 'lashed to the village coward.' And I remember telling your father if she wanted her back, all he had to do was fight for her- and I might've let him win too- but to leave a treasure like her with someone who didn't care enough to fight for her?" He leaned forward. "That would've made me the villain."

 "You ruined my life."

 "Your parents were a sinking ship from the beginning." Killian said. "I just sped it along."

 "You don't even care what you did to me, do you?"

 If not for Baelfire, Killian would've called himself the hero of that narrative. But every time he thought back to the poor little boy who he saw in the tavern all those years ago, he saw the eyes of a would be Lost Boy- and those same eyes across the table from him now.

 "Of course I do, Bae."

 "Neal."

 Killian nodded. "Of course I care, Neal. Your mother and I wanted to come back for you when you were old enough. Do you know what her last words were before your father ground her heart into dust, right in front of me?"

 "No."

 "She said she was sorry. She said not a day went by that she didn't regret what she did to you."

 "Liar." Neal said. "My mother didn't care about me. She only cared about herself."

 "How dare he say such a thing!" Killian thought, about to strangle the insolent brigand sitting across from him, "Milah cared about him, about my crew, about me- Milah cared more than anyone else ever could."

 "Watch your tongue, lad." Killian said. "I've killed men for saying things half as heartless about her as you just did."

 "It's a wonder what Emma even sees in you." Neal muttered as he took a sip of his drink.

 "Funny." Killian said, ignoring his own certainty that Emma saw nothing in him. "I was about to ask the same question. What could Emma have possibly seen in a stubborn jerk like you?"

 "I'm a stubborn jerk?" Neal asked. "You literally just threatened to kill me."

 "Yes, for being a stubborn jerk." Killian said. "And at least I fight for those I love. How did your story with Emma end exactly?"

 Neal avoided eye contact. "I gave her up. Tried to give her her best chance."

 "You abandoned her like everyone else has. When things got hard- you left her." It was Killian's turn again to take a smug sip of his own drink. "The crocodile doesn't fall far from the tree."

 Before the fight could get too heated, Emma and Tamara came back, and Killian and Neal smiled like they hadn't both been about to commit a murder.

 For some reason, just seeing Emma calmed him down, reduced his boiling blood to a simmer. He quickly got up from his seat and pulled out her chair for her.

 "Thank you, Killian." She said.

 "Anything for you, love." Killian said. He pushed her chair back in, then sat down next to her and put his arm around her again, finding a soothing comfort in her arm under his hand.

 Emma rested her head on his shoulder, and he smiled, though not at her. No, he smiled at Neal, Swan's ruse having proved Killian the better man between the two.

 But even as he held her, even as he pretended he'd won her heart- even as he pretended he was only pretending to like her- he had to remind himself it was fake, that Swan didn't really consider him the better man.

 To be honest, he wasn't sure she thought much of him at all.

---

 When they'd finished eating and the waitress brought the checks, Killian volunteered to cover them all.

 "You don't have to do that." Neal said.

 "Nonsense." Killian said. "I've recently had a successful business venture, and see no reason not to share its spoils with such pleasant company."

 Emma and Neal made eye contact- they both knew the 'business venture' he spoke of was probably illegal.

 "Are you sure?" Tamara asked.

 "I insist." Killian said. He took the tab to the other counter to pay for it away from the others- Emma knew this was so no one would see him paying in gold doubloons.

 "He's quite the charmer." Tamara said. "Where did you guys say you met?"

 "I did some traveling recently." Emma pulled whatever pieces of their history together she believably could. "My mom and I went to go visit… Germany. Where she grew up. Killian travels a lot for work, and we stumbled into each other- one of those lucky accidental meetings- but when he realized I was new to the area, he showed us around and bought us drinks. We really hit it off, exchanged numbers, and about a week later he came to Storybrooke to be with me."

 "How sweet." Tamara said.

 "He really is." Emma turned to see him walking back over and smiled at him- smiled an almost real smile.

 "Well then, love." He put his hands on her shoulders. "Should we be off, then?"

 "Oh yeah." Emma said. "Henry's probably waiting up for me."

 "Wouldn't want to leave the boy too long, would we?" Killian asked, and Neal looked away.

 "Oh yeah," Emma smiled, understanding Killian's angle, "ten years was more than enough time."

 "Neal should know all about that " Emma thought, watching Neal squirm in his seat, wanting to shrink lower than the table.

 "It was lovely getting to know you better." Emma held a hand out to Tamara.

 "Absolutely." Tamara said. "Maybe we can do this again sometime."

 "For sure."

 She shook hands with Neal as Killian shook hands with Tamara, then watched a tense glare between the boys as they shook hands.

 Then, Killian took his jacket off the back of his chair and placed it over Emma's shoulders.

 "Thanks, babe." She said, pulling the jacket closer around her.

 He kissed the top of her head. "You're welcome, love."

 He wrapped his left arm around her and they left the restaurant together.

[oautincorrectquotes]

Neal: I won a new phone in a race.

Emma: Huh? What kind of race let's you win a phone?

Neal: A race between the store owner, the cop, and me.

[insanelydeadlybookcollector]

I loved his season 2 death. The predeath monologue (backhanded and opposite to his and Emma's perideath confessions though it may be) felt like a real death, like there would be no coming back, like we could mourn and move on.

In your opinion, what was the biggest lost opportunity on OUAT?

I mean, Neal is the obvious answer, though I am going to come in with a hot take that things might have been better if he had died sooner than he did.

If he had actually disappeared into a portal at the end of season two as some kind of heroic sacrifice and everybody who mattered to him had to actually deal with his death and the fact that their time together was cut too short... that would have been fine. Emma would have regressed a little in terms of her openness--because even if people aren't always going to let you down, you can still lose them. Henry would have to cope with only knowing a little bit about his father and wanting to know more. Snow, Charming and Regina try to comfort Emma and Henry and don't know what to do. Even Hook might be useful in this scenario, connecting with Emma about lost love, connecting with Henry over knowing Bae in Neverland. (And also about knowing Henry's grandmother, because that's never brought up. Which I get, but still. A kid might want to know that his dad's mother was a pirate.)

And of course Gold. Rumple had 300 years of working to get his son back and then when he finds him, Bae hates him and then he dies. How does a man come back from that? In the real show, he goes off to Neverland on a suicide mission, determined to give his life to save Bae's son. Then Neal is alive and they reconcile--but what if that doesn't happen? What if Rumpelstiltskin has really, finally, lost everything? How does the Dark One live with that? How does Belle cope with her True Love suffering so much and also probably becoming truly dangerous?

This is all a bummer of course, and I understand why ABC wasn't going to go in that direction. But if Neal couldn't live, is it too much to ask that his death mattered? That's the real insult of season 3b (and season 4a), that everyone just acted like this vital part of the story... never existed