#anti b&c

[reignof-fyre]

Aemond: I accidentally let loose my war dragon and killed lucerys

Daemon: I accidentally set loose blood and cheese for a son for a son

alicent: I accidentally misinterpreted a delusional and dying man's words and helped usurp the throne

Aemond: I accidentally helped nearly kill my brother

Moral of hotd: everything is an accident and you never need to take accountability ever in your life :) also misogyny is a good thing

[sunnysideaeggs]

This isn’t even a question so sorry for the mini rant. I know I’m probably beating a dead horse but I hate when team black Stan’s say son for a son to defend blood and cheese. Son for a son would’ve been Aemond (him especially since he actually killed lucerys.), Aegon,or Daeron not Alicent’s six year old GRANDSON.

Hi bestie :)✨ I’m always here to rant why B&C is completely unjustified and an unforgivable crime under any circumstances. If Daemon really wanted Lucerys avenged he would’ve gone after Aemond, but didn’t bc Aemond can actually defend himself. If he wanted peace, taking Jaehaerys as a hostage would’ve easily made the Targtowers surrender and even hand over Aemond. Damn, even take Aegon if you’re in the mood. But he didn’t because he wanted his rival’s heir killed and to escalate conflict. Chaos is a ladder I guess.

Aegon had nothing to do with Lucerys’ death and Jaehaerys was completely innocent from any of his uncle’s feuds. Killing civilians is a crime, but a toddler? In front of his mother, grandmother and siblings? In the (presumed) safety of his home? That’s very different from killing a teenage messenger who was actively contributing in war and disabled his killer years before.

[greenqueenhightower]

Alicole was underwhelming, but B&C takes the cake as the worst adaptation of a single asoiaf/f&b event so far:

It was so rushed and whitewashed and did not focus on Helaena at all. Where is Helaena pleading for her son's life and offering up her own life instead? Where is Maelor whom Helaena was coerced to offer up as a sacrifice and does not bear to look at? Where is Heleana being forced to make a decision that haunts her entire life? She is obviously traumatized by what happened, but having her just say "they killed the boy" does not do her character and her grief justice. I really hope we get to see more of Helaena in episode 2 because it would be really upsetting if the show just brushes her off.

Not to mention Alicent's absence from the events of B&C. Alicent was really there, worried for her daughter's and grandchildren's lives, and was the first person to offer Helaena some comfort and consolation. The more I think about it the more mad I get because we got robbed of what could have been a truly harrowing and distressing scene that would do the events and the characters justice. Book!B&C was about two mothers and their shared agony, pain, and grief. It could have been powerful and shocking from an acting perspective alone if they had followed the events of the book.

[jaimesrighthand]

do the hotd writers not understand that the show would be infinately more compelling if they stuck to the books in providing both sides with nuanced portrayals? in framing team black as oppressed saints and team green as unsympathetic fools they only work to make all the characters less enjoyable.

what purpose has removing maelor from the show (therefore ruining daeron's future storyline if they ever include him) other than making b&c less psychologically damaging for helaena? why was alicent not here? the parallels of grief meant to be drawn in 'a son for a son' were ultimately stripped in all of these decisions. helaena doesn't even call her dead son by his name when telling alicent about it- its all so detached and disappionting.

oh and of course this was all a mistake which daemon had no part in.

[thisssees]

Nothing upsets me as much as the absolute fuckup that was B&C in the show. Sometimes I can not even believe it.

Not even going to mention Maelor, because GRRM already did (not wanting to hire toddlers my ass. That wouldn’t have happened if you didn’t choose to de-age like four tweens into toddlers)

But removing Alicent is just weird.

Blood & Cheese is not a debated passage, it is seen as straight up fact. The only things that aren’t completely confirmed are the details of the orders.

Let me get this straight:

Alicent was a victim of Blood and Cheese. They broke into her room, and bound her so she couldn’t scream and then made her watch the murder of her grandson.

Making her end Blood & Cheese in a borderline comedic scene of Helaena walking in on her mom is so genuinely fucked up.

Ryan Condal saying that it is somehow is propaganda is straight up false. That is literally him writing his own fanfiction.

Instead of Alicent going through Blood & Cheese with Helaena and her grandchildren, we get her riding Criston. Which I honestly think was just to make her a hypocrite regarding her treatment of Rhaenyra.

Alicent and Criston has no hint at having a sexual and/or romantic relationship in the books, so Ryan Condal decided to make up a situationship so Alicent could be a hypocrite by not being there during Blood and Cheese.

Not to mention that Blood and Cheese were the protagonists in what they called “black comedy” instead of the victims who barley got screen time. They felt that it was so much more important to show the child murderers than said children.

[queenvhagar]

People like "Helaena deserved a better family" yeah a better uncle, sister, and father first of all

[amaltheas-garden]

ryan condal decided Alicent was a worse person than the one we see in f&b, and lied about experiencing blood and cheese with her daughter. The account in f&b is the worst version of the actual event Alicent could come up with, and told it to smear Rhaenyra. But HotD is the way it actually happened. But Alicent isn't mean or ambitious or cunning and loves Rhaenyra and would never go out of her way to paint her as a villain. And we never see her lying and spreading the fake version of b&c around the Red Keep. So which is it condal? Is Alicent an evil conniving woman who made up a story about the most traumatic thing that happened to herself, her daughter, and granddaughter all to besmirch the blameless saint rhaenyra? The *true* B&C was just an oopsie but the *true* Alicent was also just a peace-loving woman who loved Rhaenyra and wanted her to be queen all along? Or maybe, just maybe, f&b B&C is just... how it happened?

[urdeftonesgrrrl]

me scrolling through the "anti team black" tag just to like every post I see

[gojuo]

so this is how blood & cheese should have went down if hotd had actual good writers: the plotline starts with rhaenyra wailing and sobbing over luke's death on dragonstone. daemon tries to console her as much as he can stand to do so. she tells him that she wants them dead, every single last one of those traitors. daemon grins of course, because this is how he raised her to be: a vengeful, spoiled, hateful, vindictive monster (he has been grooming her since she was 8 years old to hate her half-siblings after all). the next scene in this plotline would have us see to daemon and mysaria in bed together in harrenhal, where he painstakingly details out what he wants her to do exactly. he gives not just mysaria, but us, the viewers, word for word the sequence of events that he wants to happen on the night of the assassination. we the viewers are deeply horrified by his orders, because what he orders is monstrous. book readers would be kept on their toes, because surely the show would change this event in some ways, right? daemon describing it exactly as it was in the book has to be a red herring right?, is what they would be thinking. and show-only watchers would be on the edge of their seats wondering throughout the entirety of the episode if something so horrific would actually take place on screen. both book readers and show watchers would be left with the question of, is this seriously what's going to happen? no fucking way..., when watching the episode unfold. the next scenes concerning the plotline would be mysaria hiring blood and cheese, a scene or two establishing their characters, them getting intel on where helaena and the kids will be, talking about how difficult it would be to break into maegor's holdfast bc of all the guards so the only option is the tower of the hand ... and then eventually night falls over king's landing and we are in the red keep. we'll be near the end of the episode, like the last 15 minutes, and we follow cheese as he leads blood through the tunnels to the tower of the hand where alicent's room is. earlier in the ep we learned helaena always takes the kiddos there to say goodnight to grandma. they sneak into the room where they strangle her maid, kill the guards in front of the door quietly, and beat alicent until she's knocked out and they tie her up and gag her so she cannot be heard. then cheese goes to stand next to the door in preparation for helaena's arrival, while blood sits on a sofa facing the door. the next scenes would be focused on helaena as she gathers the kiddos to go from maegor's holdfast to the tower of the hand, and we are getting eerie, dark gothic grunge vibes from the camera shots as she gets these weird premonitions, shivers crawling up her spine. but she still goes to the tower of the hand, while the viewers would be screaming and yelling and crying and sobbing at the tv begging her not to go there. but helaena goes anyway because this is a canon event baby. i told you in the beginning of the episode what was going to happen :^) and then it happens exactly as described in both f&b and earlier in the ep by daemon. the beheading would of course not be shown but i would have jaehaerys' blood spray all over helaena and alicent while she does the ellaria scream and alicent is crying unable to do anything bc her hands are bound behind her back and she has a gag in her mouth. the final few shots of the episode would be in slow motion (all the while you hear helaena's screams) as the entire red keep hears this harrowed shrieking and so the guards and the maids and the servants all run to alicent's rooms and we see the pools of blood underneath everyone's feet as they go in and out of the room then finally we come to the last shot of the episode which is aegon's frightened face as he slowly walks through the chaos, puts his hand on the slightly closed door, pushes it open (all the while we hear helaena's unending screams), and he quietly says, "jaehaerys?" roll credits.

that's how you write and adapt a fucking book scene @ ryan condal & co you pieces of worthless shit.

[i-am-traveling-the-multifandom]

Blood and Cheese

Warnings: S2 E1 spoilers, mentions of SA, mentions of gore and blood

So, you are telling me that HBO made b&c an accident. It was supposed to be Aemond. And they made Heleana run while Jaehaerys was being killed and her daughter safe and sound. And Alicent and Maelor wasn't even there. What the hell??!!

They turned one of the best, in fact the only well written part of the book and turned it into this piece of crap

Aemond was never involved. Daemon wanted to kill a child when Luke died because he didn't have the guts to fight Aemond. Aemond might have been the reason the dance of the dragons began but he was never the cause of b&c.

Heleana begged blood and cheese to take her life instead of her children and in the show, she offers her necklace. The entire point of blood and cheese is to show a distraught mother trying to protect her children and being forced to choose which one of her children die. And they made her simply point at her son. Book!Heleana would never. Book!Heleana had to hold the lifeless body of her eldest child that didn't even have his head. She couldn't see his last expressions, was there fear on his young face or was it pain? She would never know until these ruthless killers were found. She would rather lose her life and her sanity than her own children. And in the end, she lost them all. And that is the tragedy of Heleana the Dreamer. That is the tragedy of a mother and a queen.

Jaehaera is sleeping soundly and isn't even harmed while in the books she was a traumatized kid. She was threatened with rape by a man when she was 6 years old. She watched her twin get killed in a helpless position and could do nothing to protect him. That possibly was a driving reason of her suicide.

Maelor was present there at the time of b&c and he wasn't even born in the show. He was two years old; he was a child who saw such a brutal murder. Heleana in her mind made the right decision by offering Maelor instead of the heir to the throne but imagine how much that would have mentally and emotionally scarred him, if it wasn't for his untimely death. He was a victim of 'the greater good'. But it was never him and if he had grown up enough to even form words they would have been of pain and sorrow.

Alicent was in her room having sex with Criston Cole while in the book she had to wait knowing that her daughter and grandchildren would enter any minute and be harmed. She was helpless in those moments, and God knows what went through the mind of this woman who loved her children so much. Her trauma is undermined. She saw her bed maiden killed knowing this might be the fate of her beloved children and it was for Jaehaerys. She had to take care of Jaehaera and Maelor while her own daughter sank into a deep and dark pit of madness. She saw her daughter commit suicide because of this. Do any of us ever stop and wonder if she blamed herself for all this?

Blood and Cheese was one of the most traumatic events in the entire history of Targaryens and I will murder those who say otherwise. Not because I am team green but because I have sympathy. Sympathy for two young children forced to witness such cruelty, sympathy for a child who was inflicted with such early death, sympathy for two helpless mothers who blamed themselves for their children's doom.

And the show destroyed it. HBO destroyed everything, from the cruelty and from the trauma. And those who have never read the book will never know. Never know the cruelty of team black. Blood and cheese wasn't revenge, it wasn't a son for a son. It was pure cruelty and malice. It was the murder of a child who had never done anything wrong, and the show erased it. They never showed what extents team black could go in the name of war and revenge.

And I despise HBO for what they did. Once again, they show that team black can do no wrong, that Daemon Targaryen's actions are justifiable because he did it for his 'family'. But he didn't, like always he did this for the sake of violence, and forever will.

This season is ruined from the beginning. HBO can do nothing to make it better.

[sunnysideaeggs]

Team Black's fake sympathy towards Helaena and her children is disgusting. They said Helaena is such a sweet girl and deserves better. But only because they don't see her as a threat to their kween. Had Helaena spoken out loudly about her family concerns, I bet they would turn on her that instant. When B&C happens, sadly, we will again have to see their fake sympathy in "Oh poor Helaena and her children. They don't deserve that. Well, too bad they are from the green's side. It's Alicent and Aemond's fault. If only they bend the knee blah blah blah bullsh*t. Instead of blaming Daemon and Rhaenyra who are actually and directly responsible for it.

Omg I hate this so much 🙄 especially those pesky hcs about ‘Helaena secretly supports her sister!’ She literally does not lol. The show erased her hand in convincing Aegon to send peace terms to Dragonstone, and how she was an active participant in getting the smallfolk’s support for the greens.

She loves her family, she loves her brothers, her mother, and most importantly, her children. Those children are Aegon’s blood! (fuck bastardy hcs) If he falls, they will fall too. And they were targeted for nothing more than cruelty and revenge.

She is likable for now when her sweet whimsical persona still isn’t fully on everything that’s happening around her. I can see people turning on her for mourning her baby and wanting justice for Jaehaerys. I can’t fathom how someone can read about a toddler killed in front of his baby siblings, mom and grandma and say ‘mmmm yeah, she deserved it’.

[rynnthefangirl]

Aegon, allegedly: “my sister is the heir, not me. What kind of brother steals his sister’s birthright?”

Aegon, five minutes later: my sister is a traitor and I want her dead NOW. Oh, her son had been murdered while acting as a diplomatic envoy? Well done brother, what an excellent start! Let’s throw a feast to celebrate!

[brynnsasha191]

Watching greenies whine about the changes of Blood & Cheese from book to show and call it 'black propaganda' is so for funny to me because literally in the books Aemond and Aegon threw a party when Luke died but in the show Aemond says he regrets what happened and that he's just a little bean.

It's bad writing all around.

[greenqueenhightower]

“An eye for an eye,” “A son for a son.”

Aemond lost an eye… Lucerys didn’t. Rhaenyra lost a son… Helaena lost a son. Alicent lost a grandson.

Violence increases. Crime multiplies. Injustice spreads recklessly and slaughters innocent ones.

Viserys' favoritism, carelessness, and imperception were always the propellers of disorder, infighting, and brutality. His failure to safeguard all his children and grandchildren haunts House Targaryen. His disinterest in Aegon's, Aemond's, and Helaena's futures, his dismissal of dangers regarding the succession, and his oblivion towards the possibility of any of his children being used as pawns to-be-installed-on-the-throne by Rhaenyra's potential future enemies wishing to overthrow her, thus necessitating her to kill/imprison/banish them, lit the first spark of the all-consuming fire that ensued.

It is, therefore, the show's darkest, and most tragic of ironies that Viserys' eye paid for the one Aemond lost, and Viserys' sons and grandsons, dying one after another in interchangeable succession, bear the curse that looms over House Targaryen until all fire is extinguished, and its utter destruction comes.

[drakaripykiros130ac]

Ryan Condal literally stating that he expects people to switch sides after they see B&C (as if the murder of Lucerys Velaryon and Queen Rhaenyra’s terrible miscarriage mean nothing).

Those many, many, many viewers like me who actually read the book (unlike the showrunners):

[a-sip-of-milo]

I forgot to mention, I was looking at some different disorder cringe groups on reddit and found one person asking what the criteria/signs were that someone was faking their disorder.

Not one person in that group had a proper answer. Every comment was different variations of "you sort of just know" and "it's obvious when you see it".

It is literally just proof that they have no idea what they're talking about. You could fit the exact criteria to any disorder and they'll still post you there because you're simply different to what they're used to and that's upsetting to them.

I'm going to refrain from posting anymore about r/fdc, but please keep that in mind when you're feeling insecure as a result of those groups. They have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. None of them are qualified to be judging anyone like that.