#anti Tim drake

[rubydubydoo122]

I’m just gonna say this, the main reason people don’t like Damian Wayne as a character is the same reason people didn’t like Jason Todd back in the 80s

People don’t like either of them because their favorite Robin (Tim Drake and Dick Grayson) got replaced by them.

Damian and Jason are both really interesting and complex character, objectively more complex than both Tim and Dick, but some people (cough, obnoxious Tim fans, cough, and Dick fans who over sexualize him, cough) don’t see that and just want their little blorbos to never grow into their own character apart from Batman.

[webshood]

Jason being Tim's caretaker is top 10 worse tropes this fandom has provided.

[eveningdawn222]

something about how "wholesome" batfam aus where jason and bruce have a good relationship inherently require jason to be portrayed as overreacting and hysterical when he returns. something about how the lazarus pit madness trope gives people an excuse to make this palatable. of course he wasn't in his right mind when he did those things, but he's all better now :) it's so silly how angry he was :)

something about how jason has to grovel for forgiveness at tims feet "oh im sooo sorry for trying to kill you (lmao) i was sooo crazy" and tim can then be magnanimous and forgive him because he wasn't in the right state of mind. tim is such a vulnerable little kid (at most 2 years younger than jason) and jason is a grown ass man (was in a comatose state for a couple of those years but who cares) so obviously tim is gonna be soooo traumatized and he's gonna flinch when the big bad man comes near him :( he's a badass vigilante who is smarter and better than everyone but he's also a traumatized little baby who everyone needs to be super nice to :(

something about how tim gets to be a kid, how tim gets to be a victim, how tim gets an apology and groveling and guilt and jason gets -

what? bruce telling him he loved him? a hug and a moment of vulnerability and jason having to split himself open to be dissected by the whole family. jason having to laugh at jokes about his death, jason having to be the one to reach out and admit he was wrong and crazy and totally out of his mind, while bruce can just grunt and give him a hug.

people want bruce to be a good dad because it doesn't feel good for him to be abusive. but by shoving him into these roles, jason's own story becomes unmoored. what would jason have to be angry about? bruce is trying his best! jason is being unreasonable, he's destroying this family, he just needs to realize that while bruce isn't always perfect, he's in the right and jason just needs to -

isn't it funny? how it's never your fathers fault? how it's always on the child when the relationship sours? isn't it funny, how you can slit your child's throat, and it'll be okay after you apologize?

something about how jason todd is a woman and a child and a victim and a son and a brother and a monster.

something about how the only thing jason todd ever did right was die. and how much it must fucking hurt to sit at a dinner table and laugh when someone makes a joke about it.

[bonny-and-blithe]

average experience trying to find a jason fic

[mikakuna]

jason antis who hate his fans bc they treat him like a sad boy are so funny... wdym you're mad i think a character who was tortured, murdered, victim blamed for his own death by people who were supposed to be his family, repeatedly beaten by his adoptive father, and canonically suicidal.... is sad?!

you're mad that he's one of the characters who are actually canonically depressed and so fans treat him as such?????

[panakina]

Since so many people like giving Tim Jason’s backstory of childhood neglect and malnourishment, i think he should also get the attendant prejudices.

Bruce had to take in tim to save him from a life of crime. Look, he has already sunken to stalking and theft. (He even stole that dead boys clothes.) But it was too late. Even Batman couldn’t resist fate, and tim gave in and accepted a life of criminal violence. One of bruce’s greatest failures really.

[bestangelofall]

Once again thinking about ghost!Jason seeing Alfred and Tim destroy his memory while he's dead, and he comes back and keeps his memories from when he was a ghost, and if he does reconcile afterwards, he wants nothing to do with those two 🥰

[scarlethood]

crazy to me that a large portion of the Bat fandom HATES jason todd for 'taking female plot lines and characteristics' but the same portion loves to reimagine tim drake as Oracle or Batgirl as if taking a female character's entire identity to push a disabled woman out of the narrative is okay if you put your rich white boy pookie bear there instead with absolutely no critical thinking

[sunayyyy]

There are a lot of What-ifs when it comes to jason todd. What would've happened if bruce didn't take jason in? what if jason was taken in by selina and became stray? what if jason didn't die?what if jason was found before the lazarus pit? but one that i don't see at all is what if jason didn't come back and just stayed with the All Caste?

The Lost Days arc would go about the same as in canon (without the talia thing because ew), but after the car bomb thing doesn't pan out jason just starts looking into the batfam more. He sees his dad for the first time in years. He forgets everything and considers coming back home.

But then he finds out how his death was handled

Of course he'd still be pissed off about tim becoming robin, but more than that bruce and dick spun it so people though tim was the second robin. Jason's whole identity was usurped, and was prompted by alfred of all people. Add to that the memorial case and the victim blaming, as well as him not having a memorial in titans tower and tim talking shit about him every chance he gets and jason starts to lose hope. But these things could be fixed! These could all be explained away as emotionally incompetent people compartmentaling in order to get over their grief! right?

Then he finds the footage of dick killing the joker for tim. Sure, the joker taunted dick using jason's memory, but it was him thinking tim was dwad that really set him off. The final nail in the coffin would be bruce reviving the joker. Jason now has proof that 1. tim was indeed his replacement, and 2. Bruce's morals and dick's clean hands are worth more than his mangled corpse.

He scraps all of his plans because now he KNOWS that bruce would never kill the joker for him. Disillusioned with bruce and gotham in general, he sneaks into arkham and pits a bullet in the joker's skull, then goes to the all caste for training. If they didn't care about him, why should he care about them?

I think ducra would be less wary about training jason in this au, since his drive for revenge had dissipated, and he wouldn't "bring great evil into this world."

Since ducra wouldn't really show favouritism to jason, since he isn't as much of a flight risk or a time bomb, i think his and essence's relationship would go way better than in canon. Their main points of contention were jason leaving the caste and ducra's favouritism, and without those 2 factors, their relationship could actually flourish.

Due to the all blades being linked to the soul, it would make sense if the caste taught soul magic. This would make jason a way better fighter than any baseline vigilante or assassin. Maybe he could use his abilities to hide his body language to avoid shiva and cass' ability? The all caste doesn't get massacred here, so he learns how to really socialise, talk with people with different experiences, so he could occasionally go back to the alley or the hill to reconnect with his old friends, like dana or numbers, since he wouldn't push people away like in canon.

The untitled wouldn't be as big of a threat as they were in RHatO since there are way more people available, and jason being super trained, so maybe jason would adopt a new vigilante identity to help people on a more personal level. He considers going by Red Hood, as a taunt to the man that killed him, but he doesn't like it. It's a remnant of a past he'd rather forget. Maybe he'd go by cardinal, but he doesn't want to be associated with a bird anymore. I think marauder would be a really good name for him, a man who goes around looking for things to steal and people to fight.

You can have him interact with some justice league dark members, especially Constantine since I really like their dynamic, and he could deal with hellspawns since he wields the allblades now.

JayEssence is a rarepair, which is a shame since i think these 2 could have a really interesting dynamic if written properly, so I'd probably go with that as the endgame ship, but you could work in so many of his ships. JayRose? childhood friends on the titans who reconnected after jason studied under slade for a bit. JayEddie? same thing but they reconnect in hell. Jaytemis? they could run into eachother during a mission and they'd recognise death anywhere. enemies to reluctant allies to lovers. JayDana? classic childhood friends to lovers. The possibilities are endless

[gece-misin-nesin]

me whenever i see tim being unnecessarily included in a jason lives or a robin jason-centric fic:

[zeynyukine3011]

Scrolling in the Ra's al Ghul tag is a jumpscare that you were expecting but still got jumpscared.

The amount of Tim related things I see.... I want to see just Ra's, Talia, Damian,Bruce and other Al Ghul members. I'm so sick of seeing "Ra's al Ghul cherishes Tim's spleen 🤗 and he wants Tim's babies 🤪 Tim knows everything about Ra's al Ghul and the League of Assassins 🥴"

Can Tim stans leave Ra's alone??? Let the man be the family guy he is. Let him love and care his daughter, son and grandson. Let him care for animals, plants, the whole planet! Stop making everything related to Ra's about Tim. Stop making him a creepy pedo.

[aeolusinthesky]

love danny phantom, mlb, and dc, but somehow not the crossovers? idk why. you would think id find it the best of both/all worlds but i just cant get behind the oversaturation of the crossovers in fanfic, probably because so much of what makes the originals so interesting gets lost in translation. this holds true for so many elements in these three seperate things, but mostly its the fanonization of the batfam and particularly tim drake that turns me off. the way fanon sees tim has truly turned me off the character

[webshood]

please give your thoughts on the rest of the top 10 worst tropes in batfam fanon ! 🙏🙏 jason being tims caregiver is so ickyyyy

Top 10 worst tropes in the batfam fandom:

1 • Fanon Tim Drake

I'm not even the biggest Tim Drake fan, but that's not him. Y'all slapped Tim's name and parents (sometimes) on a random white boy (or a hyper feminine asian guy) and called it a day, he was never left alone at the Drake manor, his physical needs were always meet at his boarding school, he never had to make do with a can of pasta and a birthday candle, he never had to be homeless, he never went out at night on the rooftops of Gotham to take photos of Batman and Robin, Jason wasn't his Robin. His parents may be emotionally neglectful, but they never feed him food he was allergic to and made him go into anaphylactic shock. He's not a coffee addict, uwu bottom who had to do honeypot missions. Don't even get me started on how weird it is the increase of asian Tim headcanons/fancasts/face claims after he became canonically bi. (asian artists/creators not included)

2 • Cheater/Slut Dick Grayson

I'm all for characters being sexually liberated, but having the rroma character, which is a ethnicity not well perceived and sexualized to the nines, be the one who always cheats on his partners and can't keep his legs closed, who always just has to go do the undercover stripper or sex worker job, reducing his intelligence and personality just to have him act as a bimbo boytoy who's only personality traits is his butt and cocaine, like... It's giving racism babes

3 • Infantilized Cassandra Cain

Cass is a adult woman with a learning disability, not a five year old child, it's hard for people to even write Cass that much, but when they do it's so full of stereotypes that makes me gag, having her only use sign language is a small mercy from having her articulate words like a toddler and having the other characters coddle and act like she doesn't have the mental capacity to function in society when she's such a complex character, who, despite her lack of academic knowledge knows so much about people and compassion, it's lazy writing

4 • Caretaker Jason Todd

Kinda wild to have the guy who spent a good chunk of his life looking after his sick addict mother become the caretaker of a guy who's *checks notes* barely three years younger (Jason spent one year catatonic, so it's arguably) than him and just couldn't look after himself bc he *checks notes again* neglects his own body's needs bc he's a dumbass, like, oh but it's not little Timmy's fault, he has been born with glass bones and paper skin, every morning he breaks his legs and every afternoon he breaks his arms, every night he stays awake on his bed in agony, until his coffee induced heart attack puts him to sleep.

To be continued, I'mma write the rest later bc I'm sleepy asf rn

[gonnalosemydougdimmadomedamnmind]

It's literally impossible to read bat fanfiction because it's all based off those ridiculous fanon tropes that spread like crazy and people take as fucking biblical!!!!! Dick was never a jerk to Jason when he was Robin- they got along because Dick is mature as hell and in one retelling- Jason was a jerk to him!! And when he came back as Red Hood he had literally not a single damn reason to treat Dick like shit! Not a damn one! But he did, didn't he? Cause he's the fucking asshole! How dare you make Dick grovel towards that bastard! Dick has only ever tried to help him! Reached out during his Batman run, over and over! Also- Dick never put Jason in Arkham with Joker just a few cells down???? What the fuck! The Joker and all those other fuckers had been broken out of Arkham by Black Mask already for like the whole run??? Jason went to Arkham after losing to Dick, and Gordon put him in there because One he fucking deserved it, Two the literal circumstances?? And at that point!! Arkham was fucking rehabilitated itself!! By Dick!!! Because Bruce had him go undercover there for real, and Dick was actually tortured there before he got out!! So Dick put in the work to get that shit in order to actually help people!!

Dick never chose Damian over Tim- Tim refused to engage with him over his grief, shut him out, and left of his own devices! He never told Dick his suspicions on why Bruce was alive, never! And Tim is not the one to bring Bruce back either, there's a whole team at that point! Dick learns Bruce is alive through tossing his 'dead' body into a pit and the body comes to life as a zombie. Tim didn't tell him shit! Tim is also not a little crybaby- Damian cutting his line was a fucking blip on the page, he was momentarily shocked, that was it! He put Damian on his Hit List, which is why Damian cut his line. And his first attempt at "murder" is just pushing Tim off the dinosaur statue in the cave, he didn't go all assassin on him! Also Dick wasn't even there the first incident and wasn't told about the second incident. Alfred is the one who gave Damian Robin and Dick accepted him because he saw that Damian needed help! He needed guidance! He didn't fucking fire Tim the way Bruce fired him, and fuck all of you for thinking that Tim or Jason or fucking anyone has more right over Robin than Dick Fucking Grayson! He tried to promote Tim and Tim walked off. How dare yall make Dick fucking grovel towards that bastard!!!

Jason did try to kill all three of them!! Why does everyone just gloss over that like what the fuck??? Why does he get a pass for every shitty thing he's done??? "Bad writing" stfu this is the same dude that without hesitation kills random criminals, people who deal drugs, do you know how many random ass people deal drugs??? Jason doesn't give a single shit about being his own type of hero or saving Gotham his own way, nor do the people think of him as their savior!! Are you people fucking delusional?? I saw a post that said citizens would trust Jason over CASS and I cannot Believe the hallucinations yall are seeing???

It is literally downright impossible to find fics about Dick or Damian or Cass or fucking any of them that doesn't include these literal bullshit fanon takes!!! It's impossible!!! This fandom sucks!!!! You don't even need to go buy the comics, all these popular takes have been debunked right here on tumblr!!!! Also Dick can do literally everything!! He's hypercompetent as hell, die mad about it!! Jason doesn't like Wonder Woman???? Where the fuck did that come from??? Wayne Family Adventures is not real!!! Those people could not BE more out of character!!! Look at Bruce for crying out loud!!! Yall know that man ain't act like that!

Edit: leaving this here in case anyone wonders what my hot take is towards this question I was asked: "have you considered tho, that fanon is more fun..."

Well of course fanon is more fun if you're a fan of Jason or Tim. Fanon actively caters towards those two pasty white boys. Fanon actively shits on Dick and Damian though. And for Dick? He literally never did that shit! It is all made up! It's literal character assassination?? But by the fans?? And for Damian? He was 10!!! He grew up as an assassin! He was actively trying to grow with Dick's help! How can yall see him as the bad guy?? And not the literal bad guy, (Jason), and the 17 teen year old who literally fought him back btw, (Tim), like old boy did not act victimized the way you people portray. And Jesus for Cass? Cass is just a prop in fanon. So what exactly about this should be fun to me? Like seriously.

[devine-fem]

Stop calling Ra’s Al Ghul a creep.

Weirdo writers made it so Ra’s Al Ghul had a disturbing ‘obsession’ with Tim Drake because there was no other villain they wanted to ruin for their precious Tim Drake.

All evidence supports the contrary; That Ra’s Al Ghul would think of Tim Drake as a little bit less than a used boot.

[mikakuna]

anyone ever notice that mainly the only way that bruce and jason mend their relationship, both in canon and fics, is by jason realizing bruce actually feels bad for everything he did or is shouldering too much and it guilt trips jason into trying to fix his relationship with bruce? this isn't all cases but it definitely is the case with most popular fics. bruce apologizes sometimes yeah but it's usually just someone telling jason or him realizing just how heartbroken and depressed bruce is. jason then internalizes out of guilt that he needs to lay off bruce and realize that maybe bruce is trying his best

in fact most relationships jason has with the bats in fanon is like this. jason calls tim replacement until oh nooo the poor baby is so sleepy and running on coffee and awww he's just a little boy i need to stop being a menace, meanwhile tim or alfred never apologized for every nasty thing they said or imagined about jason when he was robin. enemy to caretaker makes me barf. do not make my boy who has been a caretaker to adults since birth take care of this rich boy who's been taken care of extraordinarily since day one. tim having this supposed childhood trauma fans talk about doesn't take away from the fact that he was taken care of as a child