#andrea831 metas mikaelson

[andreal831]

ELIJAH MIKAELSON: The Patriarch of the Mikaelson family

K: Please don’t lecture me, Elijah. You have no idea the agony of being a father; loving someone so much you cannot bear to see them in pain. E: I think I might have some idea.

[andreal831]

I am so mad we didn’t get real mommy issues Elijah. Like we can read into it but no storyline abt him with his parents. When he went to Esther after the ball to apologise for his younger siblings’ behaviour and Esther cupped his cheek, THE FACE HE MADEEE. Like he made Esther doubt her plan for a second, he also out of all his siblings wanted to be a real family the most he wanted it to work sm. They didn’t even show us him that disappointed at Esther’s real plan.

I often wonder if Elijah's mommy issues are worse than his daddy issues. I could write a book on how badly they both messed all of their children up, but particularly Elijah.

As you said, you can tell this by his characterization, however, a lot of people overlook it because he is not as blatant with it as other's, namely Klaus. But how he interacts with everyone and even the relationships he has show just how badly these issues are.

From the flashbacks, and even his present day actions, you can tell that a lot was put on Elijah from a very young age. He feels personally responsible for his siblings. Not only their well-being but their behavior. The scene you pointed out perfectly shows this. I had to go back and make a gif of it. Esther is actively planning to kill her children and tells Elijah that she "wish[ed] the others were more like [Elijah]." Elijah doesn't fully get the gravity of it, but as the audience we do. Maybe if the others were more like Elijah, Esther wouldn't feel the need to kill them all. The pressure this simple 'compliment' puts on Elijah to keep his siblings in line is indicative of the guidance he has gotten his whole life. If he could keep his siblings well behaved, bad things would stop happening to them.

People call out his suits and his "cleanliness" but it's literally a trauma response. Esther, at one of the lowest moments in his life, used magic and told him that if he kept himself clean, everything would be okay. She then emphasizes this by coming back to life and reminding him that he is the 'moral' son, even knowing everything she knows about him.

This is reinforced when just a couple of years later, Esther imprisons and tortures Elijah, calling him a monster. She had all of the same knowledge in TVD as she did in TO. We can blame it on bad writing, but it's canon, so if we are accepting it as is, it's pure manipulation. It was a reminder from her that he allowed himself and his siblings to slip and that made him a monster.

Elijah throughout the shows struggles to connect with anyone in a meaningful way. Even those he loves outside of his family are easily discarded when necessary. While he feels guilty and lonely doing so, he does not hesitate to protect his family. The entirety of 'always and forever' is based on the fact that Esther and Mikael raised them to believe that their family was more important than anyone else. They were willing to anger nature in order to protect their family. To Elijah, that literally meant his siblings lives mattered more than anyone, including himself.

He so desperately wanted a family, wanted his family, to be happy and together. Yes, he makes plenty of mistakes along the way, but his underlying impulse is to protect his family. He wanted to make his parents proud, he wanted their love, but we never see him receive it. Even as a child, he is basically discarded. Elijah struggles with his self worth because of this. He even tells Hayley he has no purpose to his family if he isn't fighting to save them. He feels he has no worth outside of his role in saving his family.

Esther's neglect left lasting wounds in Elijah that are only brought up on occasion and then quickly glossed over. Even after he found out what he did to Tatia, we get like one episode for Elijah to grieve and then it shifts to him begging Klaus for forgiveness for some reason. Elijah never has a moment to just feel. His pain is always deprioritized in order to support his family.

Thanks for the ask!

[andreal831]

you had said a few times in your metas that Elijah taking after Dahlia than his parents was something that made Esther (and by extension Mikael) awkward and more distant with him. but why did it never extended to Kol?

Wouldn't his preference for witchcraft, especially the dark arts, mischievous, cunning and outgoing traits make him more comparable to Dahlia, than say Elijah's warmer and paternal nature?

To me, it's the immediacy of it.

Elijah was born mere months after Dahlia took Freya away. The pain was still fresh for Esther. And then instead of the golden haired daughter, she got a dark haired boy who was calm and quiet, much like Dahlia. She hadn't even gotten the chance to mourn her daughter when they moved to an unknown land with unknown people and she had Elijah quickly after. Kol wasn't born for years after that. And he was born after Klaus, which, in Esther's own words, healed their family.

Esther was in a much better mental place when she had Kol. She had Klaus and Ansel and had settled into her place in the new world.

I also think Finn and Kol's hair darkened as they got older, just based on these two photos up top. Elijah appears to be the only one that grew up with that dark hair. Kol's hair as a kid was still brown, but not as dark.

But to your point about personality, I think Elijah reminded Esther more of Dahlia than Kol did. From what we can see, Dahlia was a parental figure to Esther, just as Elijah was to his siblings. Dahlia wasn't wild and reckless like Kol. Rather, she was willing to do anything for family and loyal to a fault. Kol is a lot more free-spirited and thrill seeking, while Dahlia didn't like that in Esther. Kol likely reminded Esther of a younger version of herself, while Elijah was the younger version of Dahlia.

Thanks for the ask!

[andreal831]

What music do you think all of the Mikaelsons plus Hayley and Cami would listen to?

Ok, this was actually so hard. I tried to do both time period accurate but also today what they would listen to.

Elijah

Elijah would be super pretentious with it and pretend he only has a Spotify account to listen to classical music in the car, because of course live or vinyl is the only way music should be consumed. But we all know he was in his room listening to some Lana, Adele, Dean Lewis, etc. My boy likes to listen to music that makes him feel his sadness. He also really just appreciates well produced music so I think he would really enjoy Billie and Finneas. I also think he would really have liked music in the late 1900s. He would have really enjoyed The Beatles, Billy Joel, Queen, Journey, etc.

Elijah would be obsessed with Hozier. The lyrics, the storytelling, the music, the history. He would learn all of the songs on piano. He would also really like David Kushner and Dermot Kennedy.

No memories Elijah liked to dance and I can just see him really enjoying Conan Gray. He gets to dance and cry all at the same time. But come on, Family Line is his song.

Hayley

I've seen people say Hayley would love Taylor Swift, but she was far too much of a "pick me" for that. She would have been listening to more rock or angry music. The early 2010s were peak emo music. My girl would have been listening to My Chemical Romance, The All-American Rejects, Green Day, Foo Fighters, etc. But she would pretend they were too mainstream for her. She would tell people she only listens to her version of the classics: Metallica, Pantera, Iron Maiden, Avenged Sevenfold, etc.

As she got older, it would be less angsty, but still emotional. Some Halsey, Lorde, Alessia Cara. Hope would get her to listen to Olivia Rodrigo and Sabrina Carpenter, she would enjoy it but tell Hope she needs to listen to the classic. They would both really enjoy listening to Heart, Pat Benatar, and Janet Jackson together.

Klaus

I honestly can't picture Klaus listening to music unless he is painting. So it just depended on his mood and his painting. I could definitely see him painting to Lana and Christina Perri, maybe even some James Arthur. I could see him getting high, listening to Bob Marley or Pink Floyd and painting. He would have enjoyed classic rock.

Hope would try to get him into pop music but he would only listen to the ones he didn't consider basic. He would vibe with Noah Kahan and Phoebe Bridgers.

Cami

Cami was definitely a party girl in Undergrad. She took her classes seriously but she knew how to let loose on the weekends. She was an OG listener to Beyoncé, Rihanna, Charli xcx, etc. Cami would also really love women empowerment music. She would love JoJo (not Siwa, the original), Julia Michaels, Kesha, Lady Gaga.

We just know she would love Because I Liked a Boy since she literally lived it.

She would have loved Paris Paloma if she had lived long enough.

Rebekah

I'm struggling with Rebekah a little bit. But I think she would listen to more soft pop music. Like Julia Michaels, Rachel Chinouriri, Lewis Capaldi, Mariah Cary (her older music), etc. But Rebekah would eat up boy bands too. She would definitely have fan girl'ed for the Backstreet Boys and NSYNC had she not bee daggered during their prime. She would enjoy Harry Styles and Jess McCartney.

She would have been so mad at Klaus for keeping her daggered during the 90s girl bands. She would have been obsessed with Spice Girls and Destiny's Child.

Freya

I see Freya being a country pop girl. She would have been exposed to such little music each time she was awaken. But I think she would have really liked Kelly Clarkson, Miranda Lambert, Dolly Parton, Kacey Musgraves, etc. She would be obsessed with Shania Twain. She would always stand up and dance to Man I feel like a Woman every time it came, loving living in a time where she could be a woman and free.

But she also liked to dance and have fun. She would have loved Bruno Mars, Rihanna, Sean Paul, Beyonce, etc. Beyonce's Cowboy Carter would be on repeat. But she would be willing to listen to anything. Hope would constantly be showing her new music.

She would love Chappell Roan, Renee Rapp, Kehlani, Fletcher, Muna, Hayley Kiyoko, Towa Bird, etc. Any sapphic artist.

Kol

All I know about Kol is that he doesn't like Icelandic folk music. He would like slow music to dance to and then just whatever Davina liked. Davina would be introducing him to Miley Cyrus, Taylor Swift, Selena Gomez, etc., and whatever club music Josh was listening to.

Also, just Kol listening to Rude by MAGIC! on repeat because we know Marcel never warmed up to him.

If they all had lived, Josh, Cami, Freya, Davina, and Kol would have been obsessed with Brat.

Finn

I don't know if Finn ever lived long enough to enjoy music. I think music would honestly be so overwhelming to him. He went from music being a harp and lute to the insane production we have today. I think just starting him off listening to Chopin or Mozart before throwing him into Ariana Grande would be wise. This man wouldn't even know what a piano is. I think he would eventually enjoy more soul or jazz music. Like Leon Bridges, Etta James, Frank Ocean. Especially being in New Orleans. He would like to go to jazz bars and just discover new artists.

Hope

Hope would get all of these people listening to modern music. She would be dragging them to go see Taylor Swift, Olivia Rodrigo, Sabrina Carpenter, etc. And I just know her and Freya would go see Chappell.

What do you all think? This is really interesting.

[andreal831]

What filler episode type of storylines and/or scenes would you have liked to see on TO?

Some of my favorite episodes are the Christmas episodes because, while they still have chaos in them, they also just give the Mikaelsons time to be a family.

They created a whole show to be based off a miracle baby and then we hardly got to see them raise this baby. I would have loved to see more holiday episodes. We didn't get to see any of Hope's first anythings. She just kind of grew up off screen.

I would have also loved just a couple of cute romantic episodes. The closest we get is Freelin's wedding and I couldn't even enjoy it since Hayley had literally just died.

I loved Elijah and Marcel bonding and would have loved to see more of their relationship, instead of the show tanking that. Or more of Rebekah learning about what she wanted in life. More of Hayley actually being an alpha.

Obviously just more haylijah. I don't even believe we see the first "I love you." I find it hard to believe they waited until Season 4. I would have loved to see more scenes of Hayley actually getting to feel her emotions in Season 2 and 3, rather than just pushing her into things.

Also would have loved more flashbacks. I wanted to see how the Strix were founded. Or Kol working with witches. Rebekah discovering she wanted to be a mother. Just anything to flesh out the characters more.

The show just really could have slowed down slightly and let emotions land. I felt like a lot of big moments fell flat because the characters didn't even get a chance to feel their emotions. They just shoved them down and moved onto the next thing.

Thanks for the ask!

[andreal831]

Rebekah Mikaelson is the strongest vampire

This statement always starts arguments, most of them coming from societal misogyny.

The Original vampires are the strongest vampires (we are only talking about regular vampires). We are told by TVDU lore that a vampire's strength is determined by age or diet. These are the only factors that are ever stated in the show to affect their strength.

Now we don't see any of the other original vampires turned, but from the flashback, it appears Rebekah is the very first ever created vampire. This would give her vampire age over her siblings, even if just minutes, giving her a slight edge. Human age does not matter, only vampire age.

People will inevitably always try to say, oh but Klaus. This is only talking about vampires. As a hybrid, yes he is stronger. But for most of their life as a vampire, I would say no he's not. Whenever we see Klaus dagger his siblings, like with Kol, he physically overpowers them. But Rebekah, he emotionally tears her down to the point she doesn't even fight against him. Klaus is not a character who would shy away from physically overpowering a woman, even his own sister. While he does physically abuse her throughout their life, we don't see him overpower her in order to dagger her.

And here is where I think societal misogyny plays a part in the undervaluing of Rebekah's character.

The most common argument is that Kol and Elijah are somehow stronger. This has misogynistic undertones because of the hoops people jump through just to make her brothers stronger than her. While we never see Elijah and Rebekah or Kol and Rebekah face off in an actual fight, we do see Rebekah being held down by both Klaus and Elijah when she is cursed. People will argue that the curse gave her super strength or something, but again that's based on assumptions, not the show. It made her erratic but if Elijah was stronger, he still should have been able to hold her down himself. Elijah was able to restrain Kol numerous times when he helped Klaus dagger him. And Kol would have been fighting just as wildly as Rebekah to prevent being daggered again.

We do see hybrids have a boost because they still maintain their werewolf nature. So I've heard the argument that human strength plays a role in vampire strength. Again, this is based on made-up lore, not anything we see in the show. In fact, we see the opposite. Paul clearly has more muscles than Ian (I'm aware muscle doesn't automatically equal strength but it's really the only gauge we have and that's what everyone seems to be basing Kol's human strength on), yet because of their diet, Damon is still stronger. We also see that this can be made up relatively quickly when Ripper Stefan who has been drinking human blood for a much shorter time is still just as strong as Damon.

Additionally, we don't even see Kol as a teenage human. Who knows what his strength level is. We can assume being raised by Mikael he would have been trained to be a warrior, but we also know from history (and not the Euro-centric view the show tries to feed us) that Viking women, especially as they were colonizing new areas, were expected to be able to defend their homes and do a lot of physical labor. Rebekah would have been a lot stronger than the teenage girls we see today. So this assumption Kol was just stronger is only that, an assumption. And again, it is never said that human strength matters. Hybrids get an extra kick because they are still a werewolf. When the werewolf gets bound, they lose that advantage. When a human turns vampire, they are no longer human. If a vampire stopped working out, they wouldn't lose any strength, therefore, it doesn't function the same way as human strength. Also, this would likely mean Klaus was the weakest of all of them as a vampire since he wore a necklace to keep him physically weaker than the rest of them since he was a child.

This gets us into the next argument, that she's been daggered for a lot of her life so Elijah is stronger. I mostly see this argument to discredit Finn's strength. But, this would work in Rebekah's favor because we can kind of can tell from flashbacks that Rebekah has been daggered for less time than Kol, so she would be stronger than him. However, from what we are shown, daggering only slows them down slightly because they haven't been drinking blood. When all of the siblings are released, Klaus still fears them. When Elijah is released after months, he still holds his own against Klaus. When Rebekah is daggered by the Strix, she is able to take on a whole group of some of the oldest and best-fighting vampires (something Elijah struggled to do at full strength).

We clearly see Rebekah not only overpower other vampires, but we see she is a strong fighter. We never once see Kol actually fight. We only see him go against the Mystic Falls gang (and lose). So nothing in the show suggests Kol would be stronger than Rebekah.

And by this logic, Elijah would not be stronger either. Yes, I think he is a better fighter and would win in a fight inevitably. But only because of his fighting skills.

The only argument I accept is potentially about Mikael. But even his extra strength makes little to no sense to me. Besides we see Elijah and Klaus both overpower Mikael on different occasions.

So at the least, they are all even in strength, but at most, Rebekah is stronger than her brothers.

At the end of it all, there is so much plot armor in the show, I don't usually like to argue strengths (how Damon and Stefan survived Season 2 and 3 makes no sense). But it does pose an interesting question, why is it so important for Kol or Elijah to be the most powerful to the extent that people will make up lore and wild assumptions just to get them there? To me, it is important that Rebekah is the strongest because, one, the show's lore backs it up, and two, we seldom get to see the strongest creature on a show be a woman. The show does so much to undervalue the women, I hate when the fandom does so as well.

[andreal831]

Esther "Mikaelson" and Misogyny

The misogyny in TVDU, in both the writing and the fandom, is exhausting. It comes out so much, especially when it comes to complex women versus complex men. Esther (yes, I know her last name is not Mikaelson), is not one of my favorite characters, she's not even a character I particularly like. But to act like she is an absolute villain with no redeeming qualities is a best misogynist, and at worst blaming a victim of abuse.

Most of the hate for Esther tends to come from certain character stans because they don't like how Esther treated their favorite character or want to shift the responsibility of their favs to Esther so that they don't have to deal with a complex, morally grey character.

Esther is a survivor many times over and we cannot talk about her without first acknowledging that. When she was just a teenager/young adult, her entire family was slaughtered and she and her sister were kidnapped. I know there is a lot of debate in the psychology community regarding Stockholm syndrome, but her falling for Mikael screams a manipulated, traumatized, naïve, young woman.

Esther and Mikael

Whether it was Mikael's intent initially or not, he took advantage of the mental place she was at when they met. People recently have wanted to argue whether or not Esther was abused, but this is not a debate. First, there are many different types of abuse, mental, physical, emotional, financial, etc.

During this time period, while Norse communities tended to give woman more power, Esther was from "outside" their community. Her rank in the community would come directly from her marriage. I personally don't know if she went into her relationship with Mikael in order to gain security or if she was just truly that naïve and wanted love and a family. There is nothing wrong with either. It reminds me of why Hayley decided to try and actually have a relationship with Jackson. Woman have historically had to make hard decisions in order to gain protection. And even if she just wanted to get married and have kids, that is fine. Esther reminds me of Meg March. Her dreams may have been different than Dahlia but that doesn't make them less important.

We see very little of their human lives and it is told from everyone else's perspective except for Esther. We also know that everyone's stories are not accurate. Klaus lied about Esther's death for a thousand years. He also has a tendency from not seeing things through other perspectives. Klaus, and even Elijah, when they talk about their human lives, focus on Mikael's abuse on Klaus because the show centers around Klaus and doing everything they can do to redeem him. There is no benefit to making Esther look complex or going into how living with Mikael impacted her. But it is naïve to say she didn't suffer abuse. She lived in a household with a violent, angry man. Even if he didn't physically hit her, which we honestly don't know but I would find that extremely hard to believe, it is clear he verbally, emotionally, and financially abused her.

People love to say she is a powerful witch and could have stopped him or left, but this is shifting the blame from the abuser to the victim. First, abuse isn't about who is stronger. This logic is completely dismissing so much abuse that happens, especially women abusing men. Yes, Esther is a powerful witch, but if she had no other options outside of Mikael, being powerful doesn't matter. We know she would put Mikael to sleep for long periods to protect her and her children. We don't know if she did anything else, but we have at least one example of her using her magic to intervene. We also know she stopped practicing for a long time because of her fear of dark magic and how the community treated Dahlia.

We also have to acknowledge that Esther had very few choices. Sure, she could kill Mikael but she would have gotten sentenced to death for that. Again, her position in the community came from her connection to Mikael, otherwise she was just another enslaved person from a village they raided. We know how Dahlia was treated. Maybe she could have run off with Ansel and they would have protected her from Mikael, or if he was dead, the villagers, but this is putting her, her children, and the pack in a dangerous situation. Potentially starting a war between the pack and the village for aiding and abetting a kin-slayer. She would also be acknowledging her affair and adultery by woman was met by serious punishments, usually death. After committing matricide, she also wouldn't have claims to Mikael's money or land as an outsider. Maybe in the "new world," but she would have to hide her involvement in his death. Esther would have no money or land of her own as her familial land and money would have been claimed when it was raided.

While women in Norse communities did experience more freedom than other areas of the world at that time, they were still far from free. This is especially true considering how Esther came to this community. While she wasn't enslaved in a way Dahlia was, it is wrong to say she wasn't still enslaved. Her entire village was killed and her and her sister were forced to come to their village and live amongst them as hostages. Esther was kept as a way to keep Dahlia in line. She was not welcomed into the community. This was a common practice during these raids.

The reason I get so angry when people attack Esther as if she wasn't a victim is because real-life victims hear this everyday. Esther's situation perfectly exemplifies the "non-perfect" victim and the fandom perfectly exemplifies how many of these victims are treated.

Esther and Dahlia

Dahlia gets way more slack than Esther because she is a "more perfect victim." But again, we are getting the story from everyone's perspective but Esther. Yes, what Dahlia went through was horrible, but what she put her sister through was also horrible. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

Dahlia had no right to expect Esther to give up her dreams for her, even though she did sacrifice a lot for Esther. She made that decision and took it on. Yes, it was noble, but again, she cannot expect anything for a choice she made. It is just like Klaus expecting his siblings to never leave him and punishing them when they do. Siblings do not owe each other their lives. I would also not blame Dahlia for leaving Esther behind to protect herself.

On top of that, when Esther went to Dahlia and asked for help, she took advantage of the situation and stole her child. I don't care what Esther promised or how much she understood of the situation, clearly at the moment Dahlia came for Freya, Esther did not want to give her up. If we look at it in a modern perspective, a mother who puts her child up for adoption has the right to change their mind because, morally, we understand it is impossible to understand how you will feel until that moment. If a person than steals the child after the mom changes their mind, that's kidnapping. If we look at it from a historical perspective, Norse communities were patriarchal and the children belonged to Mikael. Meaning Esther did not have the ability to "sell" her children.

Dahlia is given a lot of sympathy in the fandom because they relate her story to Klaus, who they spend a lot of time victimizing. So it makes an easy leap to paint Dahlia as the victim and Esther as the "evil" one. But again, we never see how Esther reacted to her sister casting her aside because she wanted love and a family. or how Mikael treated her throughout their relationship. Even if Dahlia ended up being right about Mikael, whether he was always evil or turned evil losing Freya, Dahlia doesn't get to make that decision for Esther. It is hard to watch someone you love get into an abusive relationship, but you can't tell someone what to do with their life. All you can do is try and be there for them when they need help.

Esther and Klaus

Another reason people hate on Esther is because of her relationship with Klaus. I personally think Esther loved Klaus the most because of who his father was. She babies him in a way she never did with the other's. We even see Finn resenting her treatment of Klaus because of it.

Yes, she does give him the necklace which ends up making Mikael target him to "make him strong." But, one, let's blame the abuser and not shift blame to a fellow victim. And two, what would you have her do? Sure the answer is probably, don't have an affair, but then your fav character wouldn't be there. Also, again, she was young and naïve. She also gets more blame for having an affair than Mikael does for beating a child. She made a mistake and did everything she could to protect Klaus from that mistake. Was it misguided, maybe, but her intention was good. She wanted to protect Klaus from Mikael finding out.

The fact that Esther can forgive Klaus for brutally murdering her shows how much she loved him. Her wanting to kill her kids later is honestly understandable. She never knew the side affects of the spell she performed. She watched her children become the worst versions of themselves for a thousand years and felt the guilt for every life they took. She also knew peace existed since she had been on the other side. When she first tried to take their lives, they would have all just gone to the other side. She didn't want them to suffer but wanted the pain they inflicted on the world to end.

The Misogyny of it all

The reason I say it is misogyny, is because every favorite character in this show has done absolutely terrible things. Klaus, and all of the Mikaelsons, are serial killers. It doesn't matter what reasons they had for doing it. Esther had her own reasons for her actions. The fact that people can't acknowledge Esther as a complex character but can do so for Klaus, Damon, Elijah, Stefan, etc. shows that it is based on misogyny. Even the fact that Dahlia, someone who kidnapped and abused a child, gets more love than Esther because Esther isn't a "perfect victim" shows it is rooted in misogyny. Men are allowed to be messy and complex but when it's a woman they are either a victim or pure evil.

I'm not saying there aren't things you can't hate her for. I hated her treatment of Elijah in Season 2 of TO and her plan to harm Hope. But to ignore the complexity of the character and pretend she wasn't a victim is just harmful rhetoric. Women are allowed to be complex and morally grey.

[andreal831]

what do you think the mikaelsons would have looked like if freya had never been taken? would klaus have been born? would mikael have stayed a decent parent (he might still be a shitty husband though)?

This is so interesting to think about!

I think it's safe to say Klaus would not have been born and none of the other younger children. The butterfly effect and all that.

So we would have had Finn, Freya, Elijah, and some unknown children.

For Mikael, it's really hard to say because we don't get to see much (or really any) of him before they lost Freya. We get vague descriptions from Esther and Freya. But Freya was a small child and Esther basically just said he was "better" and they were "happy." This could really mean anything. But, giving them the benefit of the doubt, that losing Freya broke Mikael, I still think he would be a problematic husband and father.

Him being a problematic husband seemed to come from the time period. I'm not excusing it, just saying it didn't fully have to do with Freya's "death." I do think he blamed Esther for Freya's death and it caused an anger in him that never died. But I also can't see him being a kind and doting husband. He would have found a reason to be angry with her. Whether it was because none of the boys were strong enough or something else, he would have found a reason to be angry. But again, it's hard to say.

He may have been better to his daughters, but a lot of his abuse to his sons was to 'make them warriors.' He may have been less severe because he didn't have the pain of already having lost a child, but he tells Davina that he was training her like he was trained. Even without a necklace keeping Klaus weak, there would still be a weakest child. I think this child would bare the brunt of Mikael's abuse. But it probably wouldn't be to the extreme that we saw.

Finn would have done well not being the eldest sibling. To me, he never stepped up because he always remembered he wasn't the eldest. Him stepping up would erase his big sister. So Elijah had to. Freya would have relieved Elijah of that duty. We would have seen a much more relaxed Elijah. We see a lot of who Elijah would have been without the burden of his family when he erases his memories. He would have been much more like that, enjoying just being a middle child. He still would be protective of his younger siblings, but out of love, not necessity.

Finn and Elijah probably still wouldn't be close because Finn would have been jealous of Freya's attention to Elijah. Freya was already excited about Elijah while Esther was pregnant. She was likely too young to really understand Finn's birth, so Elijah was the first sibling she really got to baby. Freya and Elijah would have had a close bond. Different than Finn and Freya, but just as close.

Freya and Elijah would have loved taking care of their younger siblings together. I also think Freya would have been able to protect them more from Mikael. First because Mikael adored her in a way we don't see him adore another child, until Klaus initially. Second, because she was a powerful witch. Freya loved Mikael like she did because she didn't see what he did to her siblings. If she had, she would have protected them against him.

They all likely would have had a much better life, remaining in Europe and no one being killed by wolves. They would have lived and died as humans.

Thanks for the ask!

[andreal831]

Do you think the Mikaelsons would have had different dynamics if they weren't born in that order? Like if Klaus was older than Elijah, or Rebekah older than them?

I think it could make some slight differences but I also think a lot of their behavior is just their personality/trauma responses.

For example, Elijah's behavior has more to do with what was happening in their family while he was born/young rather than his birth order. How Elijah behaves, he seems like he would be an eldest child, but he is actually a middle child. However, because his family had lost Freya and was going through a turbulent time, a lot of pressure and responsibility was put on him. He steps up and acts like the oldest sibling.

Same thing with Rebekah. Yes, she is the baby and often acts like it and is treated like it from her siblings. However, it is also because they had lost Freya and she was the only girl. Even if she had been born the oldest, they still would have treated her like the baby if they had lost Freya. She also lived through a lot of time periods where women were treated as second class citizens and that affects how she interacts with the world and even how her siblings view her.

Kol would be Kol no matter where he was born. He has a very independent nature and likely wouldn't have stepped up if he was the oldest. Not because he can't handle responsibility, but because he wouldn't allow his siblings to be pawned off on him like Elijah did. He probably would have taken off earlier if he had been the oldest.

Finn never acted like the oldest sibling. A big part of this is because he was traumatized as a youngest sibling. He loved Freya and clearly holds onto those memories, when he was the youngest with a big sister looking after him. After he lost Freya and became a big brother, he never took on the role of the big brother. Rather he behaved as if he was an only child. If he had been born last, maybe he would have felt closer to his family because he wouldn't be so traumatized by losing Freya and wouldn't have developed an unhealthy attachment to his mother. But it was that trauma that influenced him more than his birth order.

Freya is an interesting one because, while she is the oldest, she is also the youngest. Yes, she was born first, but she also has the least amount of life experience. Even Finn was awake more than her over the thousand years. I wish the show would have played more into this. She wanted to be the oldest and take on the responsibilities of the family but she didn't know how. The family was so used to letting Elijah fill that spot that they had trouble letting Freya take over. Freya does have a take charge personality so even if she had been born last or in the middle, she likely would still partner up with Elijah to take care of the rest of them.

Klaus is the only one who really felt like his birth order. He is very much the stereotypical middle child. He loves to boss his baby siblings around but also loves to sit back and let his older siblings clean up his mess. Although, I don't think him being born in a different order would affect his behavior. A lot of the time he is pretending to be the "leader" of the family while Elijah is handling things behind the scene. He is also very much treated like the baby of the family by Elijah and Rebekah and even Freya at times. A lot of his behavior is from how Esther and Mikael treated him as a child. Esther seemed to baby him and, of course, Mikael abused him. This dynamic stunted his emotional growth. And again, this wasn't because of his birth order but because of his parents.

Thanks for the ask!

[andreal831]

can you elaborate on klaus' relationships with his sisters?

I've talked about Klaus and Rebekah several times, but I don't think I've ever really talked about Klaus and Freya. I've talked about Klaus' abuse to Rebekah, his lack of respect for Rebekah, and how Klaus has issues with women, which are all relevant here.

People like to paint Klaus as being a protective brother, but in reality he is possessive, not protective. He isn't protective over his sisters because he loves them, he is possessive because he doesn't want to be alone.

I'm not saying he doesn't love them, he does in his own way. But he's actually incredibly abusive to both of them. I think it's fascinating how the fandom holds Klaus and either sister up as these "close bonds" when in reality they are so forced by the writers.

Klaus and Rebekah

Klaus and Rebekah at least have their childhood to explain Rebekah's devotion to her brother. Just like Elijah, she has a twisted need to defend Klaus through everything. In TVD, she did it even more than Elijah. Klaus abused her over and over again and she continued to defend him. A lot of this can be a symptom of abuse. He made her feel so lonely and afraid that if she left him, she would have no one. He made sure she had no one by continuously robbing her of any relationship outside of him. Anytime she would fall in love, he would kill them.

To me, I don't find their relationship sweet because even when they are having their "sweet" moments, it just reminds me of how abusers will apologize and promise to be better. But Klaus never really does better by Rebekah. They just stop being in each others lives. Klaus exiles Rebekah because of the one time she actually tried to defend herself. Then he only calls her back when he needs her to take care of Hope. Once again, we only see them interact when Klaus needs Rebekah to offer herself up to Esther. He compels Marcel to kill her witch body, forcing her back into her vampire body. Then they have brief sweet moments when Rebekah is in and out of their lives until he dies. He doesn't even contact her when he is on a bender for years.

At the very end he "gets" her the cure, although it is not his to offer or promise. Rebekah had the same ability to get it from Elena and Damon. It was just a way to "fix" their relationship without putting in any effort. He never really feels remorse for putting her through hell for a thousand years. Rebekah stated she never got a chance to live and it is because of Klaus.

I get that Claire was out of the show for most of TO which prevented them from repairing their relationships, but given how little effort the writers put into Klaus' familial relationships, I don't think it would have made a difference.

Klaus and Freya

Klaus didn't trust Freya in the beginning and I don't fully blame him for it. But his abuse to her didn't just end with him killing her and tormenting her over her dead unborn child. For most of their relationship, he only spoke to her when he needed a witch or a babysitter. The shift in their relationship comes out of nowhere and is essentially just Freya moving on from the abuse and Klaus continuing to undermine her without apologizing for anything.

They, like with Rebekah, have moments of tenderness from Klaus, but they are few and far between. For the most part, they either don't interact, or when they do Klaus is usually demanding and rude. Freya at least stands up to him more, but it does little to change Klaus' attitude.

I also feel like Klaus just uses the same line with all of his siblings. You have the "You are my sister" moment with Freya which mirrors the "You are a Mikaelson" moment with Kol. He is essentially dismissing their complaints about his abuse because they are family and he loves them. He's all words but no follow through. He promises that family means everything to him but has a thousand years of evidence to say the opposite. I wish Freya had remained more like season 2 Freya with Klaus. The Mikaelsons desperately needed an older sibling to actually protect them against Klaus. Freya would be perfect for this since their relationship started off so bad and she didn't have history with him. Freya initially was, but the writers couldn't let anyone stay mad at Klaus for too long, lest they actually have to hold him accountable for things.

My problem with Klaus and his family or really any relationship, we are told to like their bond more than shown why we should. The only person we see him spend extended amount of time with is Cami. Everyone else he just seems to use and they love him for some reason. But we don't really see him treat them well or earn that love. He just gets unconditional love from his family, which is ironic considering how much he complains about not having that.

Freya naming her son after Klaus was so much fanservice. She clearly would have named her son Finn, you know the brother she had missed for a thousand years and that died protecting her. Even Klaus helping Elijah walk Freya down the aisle was just because the writers had to center Klaus in everything. But he was not the logical choice for that. Throughout the show, we see Elijah and Freya bonding over the hardships of family in a way we don't see with Klaus and Freya.

All of this to say, the writers really failed to develop Klaus' relationships with nearly every character in the show. They used his abusive behavior toward his sisters as the punchline of the joke half of the time. But because the writers throw in a couple of sweet lines, the fandom pretends that Klaus and his sisters were actually close.

Klaus had the ability to be close with his sister and probably had a lot in common with each of them. The writers just cared more about ratings and drama than to center a show about family around the actual family.

Thanks for the ask! Sorry, I kind of went on a rant.

[andreal831]

Hello I have a new fic coming (wish I could finish them instead of making new one but what can i do.) where Elijah, Klaus and Kol were all born girls and I love your metas, so was wondering how you think it would change their childhoods? With Finn and Henrik being the only boys, and the differences in how Mikael and Esther would treat them given they would have different expectations for different genders?

my fancasts for them

Hi!

First, I love your fancast. I think each actress fits the characters so well.

This is such a fascinating idea. I think it would change the dynamic a lot. I've said before, they would remain largely the same character as gender doesn't fundamentally change who they are, but how they are treated due to their gender would.

Elijah would get even more hate from his parents than he did as a boy. He would remind Esther of Dahlia, the sister who had just stolen their golden child. Esther would have trouble giving Elijah love and attention as the mere sight of her reminded Esther of Dahlia. While Mikael would resent her because she was a reminder of the daughter they lost simply for being a daughter. He would also have looked forward to a warrior since at this point Finn has proven he was not one, likely due to the trauma of watching his sister get stolen. Elijah would largely be ignored by both parents, much like he was in cannon.

Klaus would be largely ignored by Mikael. Mikael took interest in Klaus simply because he saw him as a little warrior. But here, by the time Klaus was born, Mikael wouldn't resent Klaus just for being a girl, but wouldn't care for him as he would have a boy. This would likely save Klaus a lot of pain and allowed her to grow up a very different person. While Esther would adore Klaus. She would be a reminder of Ansel and also be protected from Mikael as Mikael would have had less say in raising a girl. There would be less fear of her triggering her curse and the necklace that weakens her wouldn't cause so much havoc. Klaus would be the daughter she lost and would be so precious to Esther. Klaus would likely become the mama's girl that Finn always was, spending much of her time with her mother.

By the time Kol was born, Mikael would be annoyed each time Esther got pregnant. Convinced that he wouldn't get a son. He would be even harder on Finn as he is the only chance at a warrior son. Poor Finn would likely suffer much of the abuse that Klaus missed out on. Kol would be loved by Esther as the only witch, but never as loved as Klaus. But Kol wouldn't care. She was always wild and independent. She would get into all kinds of trouble behaving in ways women weren't supposed to. She and Rebekah would be close and would drive Elijah mad as she attempted to cover for them and all of their adventures.

Rebekah would largely remain the same. She would love having so many sisters. I think she would be less petty and, for lack of a better term, "pick me." She wouldn't feel the need to tear down women to impress her brothers. She would be much more comfortable just being herself with so many sisters to learn from. But I think she would still be a bit of a brat as the youngest sister. Her sisters would still baby her. Esther would love her as the last daughter, especially because there is such a gap between her and Henrik. Mikael wouldn't pay much attention to her. But he didn't really in cannon either.

There would be so much pressure on Henrik to be the perfect warrior. Mikael would neglect all of the children once Henrik was born, devoting all of his time to make sure Henrik was the best possible warrior he could be. Henrik would likely not be the happy, carefree boy we saw in flashbacks. He would be much more like Klaus. He would try to find happiness in his siblings, but would suffer abuse and feel resentful that he was the only one being treated that way. He likely would have a lot of resentment towards Finn for not taking any of the heat off of him from Mikael.

I hope this helps! Let me know when you post, I can't wait to read!

[andreal831]

If one of the Mikaelsons (anyone) was married when they were humans, do you think their partner would get to be treated as a part of family? Or would they always be "otherER" (lol) than them all. Also do you see a potential divorce or straight up murder.

It depends on who they are married to and who you are talking about. But likely they would always be seen as "other." Even as humans they seemed to close rank and keep away from others. I think divorce would be unlikely so either they would accept them as family or straight up murder.

The most likely to have been married was Finn or Elijah because of their age. We are never told if Finn had any desire to marry as a human or if there was anyone he was interested in. I always headcannon that Esther would talk him out of anyone he was interested in to prevent him from getting married and having a child. I also don't think his siblings would have cared one way or another. Finn was always left on the outside of the siblings, so his spouse would be too. If they had turned, I could see his siblings forcing him to leave his spouse behind. Potentially straight up murder if he wasn't willing.

Elijah was clearly interested in Tatia and they likely would have gotten married if they had stayed human. But we already see this causing issues in the family. In TVD, Klaus says he and Elijah went through a period of not talking because they both cared for Tatia. Personally, I believe it had more to do with Klaus being jealous of Elijah's affection for Tatia. He saw Elijah planning to start his own life and leaving him behind so he attempted to insert himself in the middle to stop it. Klaus always saw his siblings' relationships as a betrayal, this didn't start when they became vampires. If Elijah and Tatia had been married, and she wasn't killed, I could see Elijah sending her away with her son, afraid he or his siblings would hurt them. If she had stayed with them, Finn and Kol wouldn't care about Tatia, Klaus would eventually get over it, Rebekah would love having a sister. I don't think she would be fully seen as family but likely almost take on a maternal role to the rest of them since Elijah tended to take on a paternal role.

If it was Klaus who had been married, I think it would be similar to Elijah where Finn and Kol still wouldn't really care one way or another for his spouse but Elijah and Rebekah would view them as family. They both would have loved to see Klaus happy and would welcomed anyone who could make that happen. It would be different than with Aurora because his partner would have been there at the beginning. Now if this person was likely to try and talk Klaus into running off without his family, Elijah might have intervened.

Rebekah would likely be similar to Elijah. Klaus might have been jealous even as human and intervened. But especially as a vampire. It would be very unlikely that Rebekah's spouse would make it. They would probably be one of the first people Klaus killed honestly. Elijah would view Rebekah's spouse as family adjacent. He would care for them until they gave him a reason not to.

If Kol was married before turning, he would have left with his spouse. The only reason he stayed with his siblings for so long was because he didn't want to be completely on his own. He was the first to break off from the family unit and if he had someone in the beginning, he would have done so immediately.

Thanks for the ask! I love talking about human Mikaelsons

[andreal831]

If Elijah had never erased his memories, how would his relationships between his friends/family be? Would he have been able to stay away if they were in danger?

I think he would have been able to stay away from them with minimal problems. I've said it before, but I found it very out of character for him to erase his memories. It was very impulsive and not thought through, but then again the writers decided to trade Klaus and Elijah's personalities there at the end.

Elijah has spent decades away from his siblings. Especially between 1919 and 1933, Elijah chose to stay away from Klaus and Rebekah. "Rebekah" was writing to him so he thought he knew where they were. He clearly wasn't still keeping Mikael away since he had heard rumors that he feared would bring Mikael to Klaus. He just chose to not rejoin his siblings for about 13 years.

Now, yes, once he felt there was an issue, he immediately went to Klaus, but in this situation, Hope's life would be in jeopardy if they did that. I can't see anything being enough for Elijah to put her life in danger.

I can see Elijah and Rebekah having weekly virtual w(h)ine nights where they catch up on everything. They would probably develop a more stable relationship since Klaus wouldn't be invited to wine nights. They could just talk and Elijah would have helped Rebekah with her worries about Marcel and Rebekah would have yelled at Elijah until he fixed things with Hayley.

Hayley would have taken time to get Hope situated and given herself time to process everything that had happened behind the red door. And then when she had enough time, she would have called him. They would have agreed to meet somewhere and talked. And yes, they would have gotten back together. Since Hope was already being sent away to boarding school, it's not like Hayley couldn't spend long periods of time visiting Elijah in France or where ever he ended up. He may have even settled somewhere nearby. Close enough for him and Hayley to see each other frequently but far enough that Hope could return home whenever she needed to.

Him and Kol wouldn't have been close, that's just not their relationship, but they would call and check in every now and then. Mostly to coordinate how to spoil their niece from afar.

Elijah would have daily phone calls/text chains with Hope once she got old enough to get her own phone. Hope would even astral project and he would teach her piano or chess.

Elijah wouldn't tolerate Klaus' behavior or tantrums. He would have kept Klaus in line and made sure Hope and Klaus had a good relationship. He would also be there anytime Klaus struggled staying away from Hope. He would threaten to hop on a plane and go to him anytime Klaus was feeling like falling apart and this would snap Klaus out of it because above anything, Klaus wouldn't risk the Hollow gaining power and harming Hope.

Because at the end of it all, Hope was the most important thing to that family. They didn't need another motivation to stay away from each other other than it would literally jeopardize Hope's life.

The writers just didn't know how to create conflict so they just had the characters make a bunch of dumb decisions that didn't fit their character, all for a terrible plot.

You mention friends... does Elijah have friends?

Thanks for the ask!

[andreal831]

Do youn think Esther loved all of her children equally and how her relation with Elijah was?

I think Esther is a lot more of a complex character than people want her to be. It's easier if she can just be painted as an awful mother. But it is clear Esther did love her kids, all of them. Just differently. I don't think you can truly measure love in quantity, but she definitely had favorites and least favorites.

Esther loved Freya so much that losing Freya fundamentally changed who she was. She wanted to be a mother so badly that she was willing to do anything to make it happen. People often blame her more for trading Freya for the ability to have children, but don't blame Dahlia for making her own sister trade away her first child. Esther was young when she made that deal and didn't fully know what it meant. She also probably naively believed her sister wouldn't steal her child. But she loved Freya dearly.

Esther also loved Finn a great deal however their relationship grew twisted and toxic because of the loss they both shared. She essentially trauma bonded with her four year old child. Finn's trauma is rarely discussed but it is clear that his mother became his safety after losing Freya. He would do anything for her and Esther exploited this at times and even used him for emotional support. She did love Finn, but the trauma colored that love.

Elijah is her least favorite child. She basically admits it when she tells Klaus that he brought joy to their lives and made them a family again after losing Freya. She was heavily pregnant with Elijah when she lost Freya meaning Elijah's birth and multiple years of life did not bring their family joy or make them feel like a family. Although it's important to remember that while pregnant, she lost her child and moved across the ocean to a new land where she was alone with a volatile husband as this was also the period where Mikael starts becoming a bad/potentially abusive husband. I can't imagine she didn't experience some level of post-partum depression after having him. To top it off, Elijah favors Dahlia more than either of his parents. He likely reminded her of her sister and everything she had lost.

She views Elijah as more of a second parent. She expects him to always behave and keep his siblings in line. When the others step out of line, she has more sympathy for them. She offers Finn, Kol, Klaus, and Rebekah second chances in witch bodies but tortures Elijah, mocking him for what he is and that he is no longer her "noble son." We never see any exchanges between Elijah and Esther that have any type of warmth. This doesn't mean she didn't love him, but hey have a very strained/neglectful relationship.

Klaus is her favorite child. He was the only child she had with the man she truly loved. Even though Klaus seemed to get the brunt of Mikael's anger, he also gets the most protection from Esther. To the point that Finn is jealous of this attention. Klaus arguably did the absolute most vile deeds that should disgust Esther but she still showed love and compassion to him. He was the problematic child that could do no wrong.

Kol is pretty low on the ranks but still above Elijah simply because he had magic. Esther would have wanted to pass on her magic somewhere even is she wasn't truly practicing. She would have loved it but also feared it. Kol would have also driven her crazy because he was always so independent and often getting in trouble.

Rebekah has a special place in her mother's heart as the only daughter she had after losing Freya. It would have been painful at first as she looked so much like the child Esther lost, but she would have viewed it as a second chance. Rebekah always had a soft spot for Esther and losing her mother devastated her.

Henrik is pretty high at the top simply because he is the youngest. Henrik seemed to have a happy spirit from the few brief moments we see him. The baby of the family is always special. His death sent Esther into such a spiral that she created vampirism.

None of this means I think Esther is an awful mother. There are definitely terrible things she does, but at the end of it, she truly loved her children. Was she the best mother in the word, no. But we have to remember she was a young woman who was also a victim.

Thanks for the ask!

[andreal831]

Pretend that Hayley had never found a way to get out of her permanent wolf form post season 2. How long would it take Elijah to forgive Klaus, if ever?

The thing with the Mikaelsons is they never actually forgive each other for anything. They live by 'forget, but never forgive.'

It's why their relationships are all so fragile and easy to wedge apart. But this policy is also why you cannot actually come between them. We see it time and time again. They fight with each other and even betray each other, but when it comes down to it, they will always choose each other over everyone else. They each love the other siblings, but also harbor an incredible amount of resentment for them.

Elijah never actually forgave Klaus for killing Celeste or Gia. They just moved on. He wouldn't forgive Klaus from cursing Hayley. But, inevitably, something would threaten their family and they would have to come together, putting their anger aside. Much like Klaus had to do when he found out what Elijah did to Aurora.

The biggest difference here is that Elijah would still have to face what Klaus did everyday. At least in the past, they could all operate on "out of sight, out of mind." But with Hayley, Elijah would watch Hope everyday growing up without her mother. He would go to the bayou once a month with Hope and watch how it was wearing on Hayley.

Elijah wouldn't abandon Klaus like he planned to because Hayley asked him not for Hope. Elijah would never stop looking for a way to break the curse, much like he helped Klaus for a thousand years trying to break his own curse. It would end up consuming him. I do believe Klaus would eventually start to help. Whether it was because he was trying to earn Elijah's forgiveness after being isolated for so long or because he eventually calmed down and realized he overstepped.

But Elijah's anger would run deep. Not only for himself and for Hayley, but also for Hope. He would never allow anything to happen to Klaus, being on his side as their enemies come up. But their relationship would never be as close as it once was. Even as Klaus attempted to fix it, Elijah wouldn't forgive him until Hayley was back.

In TVD Elijah had all but lost faith in Klaus. The idea of Klaus being a better person for Hope was the only thing that pulled Elijah back to Klaus' side and made him believe Klaus still had some humanity left in him. Watching his brother torment the mother of his child and being unbothered as Hope suffer missing her mom would be a final straw for Elijah. Klaus would actually have to work for his forgiveness this time, unlike with everything else. But again, until Hayley was back, Elijah would always resent Klaus and believe he was past the point of saving.

Thanks for the ask!

[andreal831]

What kind of a person do you think Kol would be if being a vampire didn't take away witch powers?

This is one of those topics that I'll admit some biases. With most of the characters in TVDU, we get hints of the past but we don't see the full thing so it's up to us as an audience to fill in the blanks. This is why I think there is so much debate in the fandom. Everyone fills in the blanks differently and to a different extent.

So for me, Kol was not a character that I was drawn to so I often didn't spend a lot of time thinking about his past outside of what we are explicitly told. From the show, we are explicitly told that he was a witch and he clearly still feels very attached to his witch side. We also know that when he turned he no longer was a witch.

What we don't know is how he was as a witch (I know he called himself a child prodigy, but I'd be curious to know how long he was practicing) or how exactly it impacted him to lose that side of him. Unlike Klaus who blamed everything on losing his werewolf side, we don't hear Kol explicitly say he became such a menace because of his loss of magic.

I don't think anyone would really argue that it didn't hurt him to lose that part of himself. But I personally don't think him becoming a heretic would have made him much more of a stable person. Even with Klaus, there were numerous reasons he became such a monster. Esther's lies, Ansel's death, Mikael's hate, losing Aurora, etc. on top of his werewolf side being suppressed. None of this justifies the things he does, but none of them can be said to be the direct or only reason he became what he was.

The same thing applies to Kol. It wasn't just losing his witch side, but also losing his home, losing his chance of being human, running from a murderous father, his mother's death. All of these things happened simultaneously and affected him. We also have zero idea of what kind of person Kol was as a human. He is in none of the human flashbacks. We know that he fled as soon as Mikael began to hunt them, destroying their village. He quickly reunited with his siblings and seemed to already enjoy killing very early in. I think at some point Kol said he enjoyed the "rush" being a witch gave him, so it seemed like he transferred that to killing as a vampire. But it could also just be that he loves adrenaline and would have still gravitated to that side of vampirism even with his magic still intact. Again, it's hard to say since we don't see him as a human.

But what we do see is how he is as a witch in TO. Now, I've said this in another post, TO Kol doesn't make a lot of sense to me compared to TVD and even the flashbacks. Sure, maybe it was just him having access to magic which made him better, but we can't forget that the first scene we have with him as a witch is him SAing a woman by using his magic to make her flash the entire street. Kol, as a witch in TO, likes to use his magic to have power over others, much like he used his vampirism. Again, it's hard to say if he was always like this or if this was as a result of him losing his magic initially.

To me, this is probably how I would imagine Kol as a heretic since this is the best evidence we see of him as a witch. Not necessarily any less violent than we saw him as a vampire. In my opinion, a lot of what caused Kol to behave the way he did was feeling excluded rather than losing his magic. While he often runs off and leaves his family, it always seemed that he caused chaos to get his siblings attention. We are told Kol is this intelligent person so I have to imagine he wasn't just acting dumb and attracting Mikael every time he was undaggered. But he knew it would get his brother's attention. This can make sense for the character since he was turned at like 17 years old. He behaved like a teenager attempting to get his older brothers to pay attention. Even when he knew their attention wouldn't be positive and often was being daggered.

I could see him being a heretic changing his dynamic with his siblings though. He would have been invaluable to them, especially in the early days when they were trying to survive. But again, he still likely would have been a violent and murderous person. It maybe could have been even worse if Kol and Klaus became closer than Elijah and Klaus.

They made Kol's violent and murderous nature a part of his personality, which is why I had a hard time believing that just meeting Davina changed him as a person. But again, I know a lot of people have complex headcanon backstories that show Kol was a completely different person and losing his magic sent him over the edge, which I am not saying is not possible. I just personally don't see it. When Abby lost her magic, she became depressed and lethargic. When Bonnie was cut off from her magic, she didn't become murderous. Kol losing his magic didn't change his personality, but it may have pushed him further into that side of himself than he normally would have. This combined with the heightened emotions of becoming a new vampire created the Kol we met.

I'm sorry I forgot to respond to this earlier, but thank you for the ask!