#andrea831 metas klope

[andreal831]

how do you think the relationship between klaus and hope would have been different if she had been a boy?

I thought I had discussed this before, but it doesn't appear I have. So thanks for the ask!

We already saw what Klaus was like with a son. He viewed Marcel as more of a friend than a child, waiting for the day that Marcel was old enough to indulge in all of their vices. Now there are always debates on why Klaus viewed Marcel differently than Hope, whether it's race, biology, gender, etc. I personally think it was a combination of reasons.

Hope being a girl was very purposefully done. The show thrived on the trope of "innocent white woman saving terrible bad-boy." And Hope was no different. The show even goes out of there way to point out that Hope saved Klaus when Marcel couldn't. While boy-Hope would have the advantage over Marcel of being biologically related to Klaus, we can't discredit how the gender would play a role. Namely because he would see himself in a boy more and his competitive nature would come out. When Klaus saw Marcel succeeding and essentially becoming like him, he viewed Marcel as a rival. When he sees the power Hope wields, he is proud of her.

We already see how different Klaus is with his sisters than with his brothers. He treats Rebekah like a child most of the time even though she's close in age to Kol, who Klaus treats more as a friend. He is even more gentle with Freya than he is with any of his brothers, after he starts to trust her. But Klaus is not above using violence against women. Yet he didn't want Hope to see that side of him. To the point that he cut off contact with her after she did.

When confronted with an issue, Klaus resorts to violence. We see him do this with Marcel as he gets older. Even when Marcel was a human and the power dynamic was vastly different. There are only a couple of people Klaus' first instinct isn't violence and Hope is one of them. Klaus raising Marcel was more like raising a soldier. Klaus taught him to sword fight but didn't seem interested in his other interest, like piano or reading. While Klaus bonds with Hope over painting. Potentially if boy-Hope had been artistic, they could of still had that bond, however, I think it's likely that Klaus would still have attempted to bond with the boy in more "masculine" pursuits. But again, it would likely still backfire and create a rival.

Klaus and boy-Hope would have had an even more complicated relationship and Klaus would struggle to have a father-son bond, often letting his paranoia and jealousy complicate his love. Klaus would also do less to be a better person as he wouldn't be as concerned with a son behaving like him as he was with Hope. He would likely have had a similar relationship to boy-Hope as he did with Marcel.

[andreal831]

Is Klaus a good father?

I've been holding this one back for a while and if you are in this fandom, I'm sure you can imagine why. But recently on tik tok someone told me that I just "didn't understand" Klaus' character. But I promise you I do. Which is why I struggle to like him for most of the show.

Because for 90% of the show Klaus is a terrible brother and father.

We can't talk about Klaus and fatherhood without first talking about Marcel. Klaus took Marcel in with the pretense of adopting him. But he allowed his own jealousy to rob Marcel of having any kind of typical childhood. Elijah wanted to educate Marcel and we see they bonded pretty quickly when Marcel first comes to live with them. And most parents would be thrilled to see a child who has lost his mother and experienced so much trauma was still able to connect with someone and be excited about learning. Instead, he is jealous and releases Kol. He allows Kol to completely go off the rails in the same house where a very mortal child is living.

We don't see any more of their relationship until he is older and we see Klaus interfere with Marcel and Rebekah. Again, some people say it's to protect Marcel, but it wasn't. It followed the same pattern of abuse against Rebekah that we've seen before. He continues to rob Marcel of his choices, with joining the war, with dating Rebekah, and then later by trying to steal the city Marcel had worked over 200 years to solidify. Klaus does not take Marcel in because he wants to be a father, he takes him in because he wants a warrior friend. Which is why he released Kol when he felt Elijah "stole" Marcel from him. He never truly wanted family, he had that. He wanted someone who would go along with his debauchery.

And then Klaus finds out about Hope.

Klaus' first reaction to finding out of Hope's existence was to tell the witches to kill Hayley and the baby. Which I don't fully hold against him since he didn't trust it was his and was scared. But even after he accepts the baby is his and Elijah brings Hayley back to the house, Klaus shows almost no interest in Hayley or the baby. Rather, he is on a power quest to take over New Orleans from his first child.

The first time we get any sense Klaus cares whether the baby lives or dies is when he nearly chokes Hayley to death. I'm sorry, but that is not a sweet moment. It is abuse.

Throughout season 1 we see Elijah and Hayley grow close while Klaus is absent for most of the pregnancy. Klaus even leaves a pregnant Hayley in the woods alone with Elijah while he is suffering from his wolf venom. Elijah could have killed Hayley and Hope, and very nearly did if it wasn't for Eve. Klaus showed no regard for their safety because he got his feelings hurt that his brother doubted his intentions. Intentions that should have been questioned. Elijah had seen Klaus seek power over family for a thousand years and the last thing he heard from Klaus about the baby was he wanted a legacy, not a baby. Yes, there are a couple of moments where we see he cares or is afraid, but he does very little to actually help Hayley throughout her pregnancy. In fact, he kidnaps her and lets his brother watch over her instead of him.

Then Hope is born. Yes, Klaus clearly cares for her. I'm not denying that. But Klaus is a textbook narcissist and they historically do not make the best parents. We see a moment of selflessness when he agrees to send Hope off with Rebekah and clean up the mess he's made in New Orleans. But again, he relies on Elijah to clean it up while he mopes and isn't concerned about the mother of his child until Elijah forces him to.

Again, we have a sweet scene with Hayley and Klaus reuniting with Hope, but it makes no sense that they left her with Elijah. Elijah who was still struggling to control himself after being mentally and physically tortured. The only protection Hope has is Cami who would not be able to protect Hope if Elijah lost control.

Another moment people think is cute, but I find incredibly manipulative, is when Klaus has Cami and Elijah bring Hope back to New Orleans. The city is still unsafe. In fact she had just been attacked by Finn and Freya was on the loose, someone they didn't trust, Rebekah was missing. It was not the time to bring her back. But Klaus wanted to make sure he had his werewolf army, which Hayley went through with the wedding. A good parent would put their child's safety over anything. Hope should have stayed out of New Orleans until he was sure they could protect her. But Klaus continuously puts his own wants over even Hope's safety.

We don't see much of Hope and Klaus' interactions in the month they all live together. In fact, we see Jackson with Hope more. And that's still limited. Hope is sent out to the bayou repeatedly. A lot of this is because Klaus was busy dealing with all of the threats from his family. Again, it was not safe to bring Hope back yet.

When Dahlia shows up, Klaus goes off the rails. People love to say he was a master manipulator, but he really was just going with the flow and picking the most chaotic option available to him. He admitted to killing a friend of the wolves, effectively losing the army he worked so hard to ensure and causing doubt amongst his whole family about his trustworthiness. Again, instead of putting Hope's safety first, he lets his paranoia lead him and he puts Hope in more danger. Dahlia only finds Hope because he hands over his blood. Instead of working with his siblings to defeat Dahlia while Hayley runs with Hope, he betrays everyone and then curses Hayley. Once again, because he's a narcissist and thinks he is the only one who can protect Hope. This is in direct contradiction to the fact that he's seen his family and Hayley fight to the death for Hope already.

For perspective, I think we need a timeline of Hope's life so far: Hope was born and her mother was murdered while holding her mere second after her birth. Then within a few days sent away from her mother. Mothers bonding with babies in the first few days is so important for development. Rebekah raises her for 6 months or so and then she gets to see her mom for a night and her dad for a couple of hours. Cami and Elijah take care of her for a few weeks and then she's in New Orleans living with Hayley, Klaus, and Jackson (people this 7 month only baby really doesn't even know) for a month. Then after adjusting for a month, she loses Hayley and Jackson for 6 more months. Hope is surrounded by Klaus, Freya, and Elijah -- again, people she doesn't really know. The first year of her life is full of upheaval and she is not able to create a secure attachment with anyone. Klaus only makes this worse by taking Hayley away for six months.

And before you say, 'he did it to save her life.' He made absolutely no effort to help save her and even objected to Elijah bringing Hope out to the bayou. It was a punishment for Hayley believing she knew what was best for Hope even though he was behaving in the exact same way. He also apologizes for it and says he was wrong later. He even agrees he shouldn't have done it.

This is where I get frustrated with Klaus stans. People always want to say he has the best character development, but when I call him out for his early behavior, they get upset. It's because of his early behavior we were able to see any growth.

And we do see growth. To me, the most growth is at the end of season 3. Throughout season 3, we also don't see Klaus interact with Hope very much. Hope is mostly just with Hayley or out in the bayou, basically unprotected. But at the end, he finally realizes what it means to be a father. He tells Hayley to take Hope and run. He puts Hope above his own desires. This is the most selfless we ever see Klaus. And it does cost him. He misses out on five years of Hope's life.

When he wakes up, he is still in that same headspace (thank you Cami). The family decides to leave New Orleans alone and abandon the fight with Marcel. This is shocking behavior for Klaus. But he wants to raise his daughter in peace. I love the couple of episodes we get here with them. But then the Hollow happens and they have to go back to New Orleans. Where Klaus imprisons his first child, Marcel. I'm sorry, but no matter what Hope did, Klaus would never treat her the way he treated Marcel. Whether it's racist, sexist, or based on him not being blood, you decide.

Klaus is only in Hope's life for about a week until he has to leave because of the Hollow. Again, this is peek Klaus parenting in this one week. But then while he's gone, he goes off the deep end. He claims it is to keep Elijah safe, but in reality, it is because he has nothing tethering him. Once Hope sees him, he completely cuts her off. He never actually learned to be an everyday father. He only knew how to make the big gestures. He doesn't know how to sit down with her and explain or even how to reach out to Hayley and have an adult conversation. He abandons his daughter to the point that she kidnaps her own mother to get his attention. He falls back into his old habits, putting his comfort over his daughter. Because it's easier to ignore her than to face the harsh reality of dealing with the terrible things he's done and trying to be an actual better person for Hope.

We don't see Klaus act as a parent for another 7 years. And this whole season was just a mess. I do understand he can't be close to her. But they have magic and phones, he could have contacted her better. He should have been more involved. If you follow me on tik tok, you already know how ridiculous I think Hayley's death episode was.

Hayley's death would have been the hardest thing Hope has ever gone through. I hate season 5 for making her bounce back so quickly. Hayley was the one constant in Hope's life. I know everyone wants to act like Klaus' death should have impacted her more, but she didn't really know him. He was more of an idea to her than an actual person.

Hope was falling apart for most of season 5, so Klaus gets the bright idea to kill himself less than a week after Hope loses her mother. This is portrayed as the ultimate sacrifice for his daughter, but it was incredibly selfish. Elijah was willing and able to die by himself, but because Klaus didn't want another man to die for his daughter, Hope had to lose both her parents in the span of a week. Not only that, but feel responsible for their deaths. I will be the first to admit, season 5 was just bad writing because the showrunners were ready to move on to Legacies. But it's all we have.

All of the development we see with Klaus is destroyed in season 5. I am hard on Klaus' character because this fandom loves to let him get away with everything. But I do genuinely like aspects of his character. And, as I said, I do love the one week of his relationship with Hope, but it's not enough to overshadow the danger and hurt he put her through. 

[andreal831]

Honestly, if I had to be honest, I could never get myself to like Hayley even after all she went through. Like I believe in karma and the very fact that she tried to build a family with Klaus after they both mutually destroyed Tyler's life - and they could never end up being the proper family they wanted with Hope in the end. Same could also be said about her betraying the hybrids yet going to NOLA where the Crescent Pack - cursed to be wolves every day except for one night - with members that have either betrayed her or got killed fighting battles not theirs for the sake of "loyalty" (I will also mention the Crescent Curse meant they were isolated from the werewolf grapevine outside of NOLA, so Hayley arrived with a blank slate). We - or I - still don't even have outright confirmation that she knew Oliver was the one who killed Eve, her only surviving relative. So even if it wasn't just Tyler, karma was always at Hayley's heel when her actions led to something horrific that she had to pay for.

But I think the reason why I dislike her is for Hope's sake. Yes, Hayley protected her and put her first first - but I think she was still selfish about it. We hear nothing about the years Hope was growing up on the road, like was she always stuck in a safehouse or did she interact with normal people. And on that note, we never got a clear reason why Hayley just packed up and left and didn't bring any Crescent members - who have the abilities of a hybrid (which is a joke when they got slaughtered easily) - even if Mary vouched for them. That doesn't make sense unless what I mentioned above about the Crescents being isolated comes into play and Hayley was worried about hypothetical pack members learning about what she's done before coming to NOLA and didn't want to chance anything (another thing, Tyler was still living while Hayley was looking for pack venom, so his possible influence with North America packs would have been an interesting hindrance to see).

So, if I'm not being clear, for going to a new state with virtually no one knowing her past misdeeds and those who did either being dead (I believe Jackson knew via truth ritual) or indisposed (the Mikaelsons), Hayley had to have struggled getting help because of being in relations with the Mikaelsons, the mother of Klaus's daughter, and an old friend-turned-enemy they stupidly left alive knowing he knew enough information to have packs turning her away. And how does this relate to Hope? Because if Hayley and Klaus have zero love in the werewolf community and know the truth, why would they trust Hope? I imagine the open invitation from the community by just being werewolf-affiliated or having the curse doesn't fall on Hope because her parents' treatment with werewolves...and that's if you had decent writing and proper consequences at work.

Also, in a previous ask, you said sending Hope to Salvatore made no sense..but it actually does if you wanna wager that the School Pack being made up of werewolves that either had no idea of their werewolf curse until triggered or lost their pack early in life would have no idea who Hope was or what her family is to werewolf current history, so like Hayley and the Crescents, Hope has a clean break at gaining the trust of werewolves who don't have anything to affiliate her with. And sending Hope to Salvatore also makes sense if you wanna also add in the fact perhaps certain Crescents may have felt bitter towards Hayley and it could have gone down to Hope. It probably did get better with time if Hope left to eat crawfish with them, but there's probably some distance given everything that happened. And then following how Hope used Henry - a fellow Crescent - by helping him become a hybrid and didn't do what was necessary like break the sirebond or help him gain control, and when that wasn't enough, kidnapping Hayley - the only parent in her life - just to get Klaus's attention, which led to the mess in S5...

Then, yes, I can't have it in myself care about Hayley. Just, she's a mom who's gonna do whatever it takes to do right by Hope but there's so many underlying things that sabotage her efforts. I get Hayley wanted to give her child a mom that always forgives her, but she dealt with Klaus's BS for years - so she should have doubled down on this behavior as soon as it was evidentiary. And furthering back, she's only acting out - and using people, as Mikaelsons do - because of Klaus. Klaus Mikaelson, who we watched for 3 seasons have several people reassure his relationship with Hope was solid and he could be a good dad only to foil it when Hope got a glimpse of the man everyone hated - and the one to even inspire Hope to love him to begin with was Hayley, so she looks like an idiot because Hope's 7 years of wanting his attention is technically on her because she encouraged this when Hope only had her to rely on. If Hayley's only redeeming quality was being a good mom to Hope, she would have: said "screw The Hollow", got Rebekah to track Klaus down, got on the first plane and dragged him back to Hope to explain himself because as bad as her child being possessed by her evil ancestors is, making her child feel unloved and unwanted (the very things Hayley promised her she wouldn't feel on the day she was born) was even worse and should have taken more precedence.

And if I had to warrant it, this is what got Hayley killed: If not staying by the Mikaelsons side and fighting for them, it's by half-assing things with Hope so badly - not being truthful about the real world, not preparing her for the consequences of Klaus's and her actions, kicking Klaus's ass in gear sooner - that the kid had to act like a Mikaelson, running her own childhood, and Hayley's head got put on the cutting board as a result.

(I'm so sorry, this came out harsher than I intended - I edited a lot but still came out this way. I care for Hope, but have responsibility where it lies, but if I had to blame anyone for orchestrating how Hope of S5 came to be, I blame Hayley - and Freya because I think she might have been undermining her parenting behind her back.)

Hi love, I know this is an old ask. Sorry, I'm just now responding. I know we discussed it a little already but I wanted to make sure I responded fully!

I personally don't believe in karma, especially in the context of TVDU. If anyone had karma coming for them, Hayley honestly wouldn't be high on the list. We are dealing with people who have been serial killers for decades/centuries/millennium. Yes, Hayley did some truly terrible things, but she learned and grew. I don't blame Tyler for his hatred to Hayley and Klaus and even how he went after them. But if we are saying that Hayley's karma is why she couldn't have a proper family in the end, why did Damon get one? Why did Caroline? Why did Kol get to get married to Davina? Or Rebekah and Marcel? They have all done equally (mostly worse) than Hayley. Why didn't Bonnie get her happy ending? Or Jenna? Or Cami? Or Eve? Karma can't play a role in TVDU because we are dealing with terrible people as the 'heroes' where the innocents are sacrificed as plot devices.

I think the only reason Hayley didn't bring anyone with her when she ran was because she had to get out of there quickly. She also never wanted her pack to sacrifice their lives for her. Jackson had just been killed because of his attachment to her. She wasn't going to risk anyone else for her. I wish the show would have gone more into the pack politics because I can't believe Oliver was the only pack member who had issues with Hayley's relationships with the Mikaelsons. This also could have played a part in it. She knew she would spend the next few years of her life doing anything to get the Mikaelsons back. This probably wouldn't be super popular with the pack.

The pack wouldn't have cared about her past. Let's be honest, they were not the most noble pack. They were ready to turn on each other and any one else for power. I don't think they would have cared that she got 12 random wolves killed to find them when they were willing to kill each other over moon rings.

We don't know what was happening during the time jump, but we can assume they didn't have much interaction with the outside world. This is something we know Hayley feels badly about since she argues with Klaus about keeping her isolated in New Orleans. Hayley understands what it is to grow up alone and never wanted that for Hope. But even more than that, she wants Hope safe. If we look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs, the first two bases of the pyramid are physiological needs (food and shelter) and safety. These come before social needs. I wish we could have seen more of this time and seen the conflicts she may have run into while trying to bring the Mikaelsons back. As you said, Tyler could have played a role or even just Hayley's reputation with the Mikaelsons.

You say that Hayley had no love from the wolves, but that isn't true. Hayley was still very respected with the packs that she ran with when she was young. We see this in season 3 when she and Klaus run into them. It would have been nice to see Hayley go back to them during the time jump and reconnect with her werewolf side as well as having Hope around other wolves. The Crescent Pack also still respects Hayley which is why she can come back after five years and still rebuild leading up to season 5.

Yes, Hayley got 12 wolves killed. But this is not going to destroy her relationship with the packs even if they all know. She isn't the only wolf to do this. We see Tyler get wolves killed when he sides with the MF Gang. Or the fact that when we are first introduced to wolves, Jules and her pack are willing to throw Tyler under the bus in order to get the moonstone. The wolves have zero loyalty to other wolves and have wavering loyalty to their own packs. It's no wonder Hayley behaved the way she did.

Now, the pack trusting Hope is interesting. I haven't watched Legacies but I've seen enough edits to know Hope does go back to NOLA and interact with the wolves. And they don't trust her. I think she even beheads one of them (and we are supposed to think it's badass or something??). Hope basically has to tell them that they shouldn't want a monarchy or even a hierarchy of alphas. But to your point, most of the Crescent fighting was generational because of this hierarchy. Hope didn't need to earn their respect because they operated as a monarchy -- which is the problem with monarchies.

I still hold that sending Hope to the Salvator School made no sense. You point out that it gives her a fresh start with the wolves, but when she was there initially, I don't think they even knew she was a wolf. She was Hope Marshall, a normal, average witch. In the few episodes I watched of Legacies, she doesn't seem to be forming any connections with the wolves. We never see any sign that the Crescents feel bitter towards Hope or Hayley until Hope turns one of them into a hybrid. Which is something that could have been prevented if Hope had been raised in New Orleans and learned about the faction issues. She would have had a better understanding of the Crescent Wolves. It also would have set her up better if she did want to be Alpha one day.

Hayley was a young mom put into an impossible situation. It was only made worse by every other member of Hope's family. You are placing the blame of Hope's behavior because of Klaus' neglect on Hayley. Kids misbehave. It's inevitable. Especially ones with werewolf tempers and absentee fathers. If you agree that sending Hope to the Salvator School was the right option, we really should be blaming Alaric for not being more aware or even Caroline who was at the school in season 5. If anything, I blame Hayley for sending Hope to the school. She would have never let Hope behave the way Alaric did. As soon as she heard, she went straight to the school and pulled Hope home. She made sure Hope knew it was wrong, but still felt supported and loved. Hayley also immediately began attempting to clean up her 15 year old's mess, as any good mom would do.

Hayley also never encouraged Klaus to stay away. She constantly wrote to him and even sent Caroline after him to make him listen. She is not his keeper. It was his choice to stay away. It was not her job to make a deadbeat dad be a parent. She tried to make Hope feel her father's love through stories and reinforcing always and forever, but she couldn't jeopardize Hope's safety. But to your statement, she can't win. Her telling Hope Klaus loved her only served to encourage Hope to fight for a relationship with her dad. But if she had poisoned Hope against Klaus so that Hope wouldn't even care that he abandoned her, that would be problematic too. Hayley didn't even know why Klaus stopped talking to Hope. He just disappeared one day. And when Klaus wants to stay gone, he does. But no, sorry, Hope's emotions were not more important than her life. Which is why every single Mikaelsons agreed to separate in order to protect Hope's safety.

You put the entirety of the Mikaelson burden on Hayley. Hayley was an excellent mother and gave Hope a chance to be a child. Klaus is the reason Hope felt unloved. Klaus is the reason Hope kidnapped Hayley and Hayley ended up dead. He couldn't cope with being a father and abandoned Hope, leaving Hayley to be a single mother with only the support of Freya. If anyone is to blame for season 5, it is Klaus. Which is the theme of the show. The Mikaelsons are their own undoing and anyone who gets caught up with them pays the price.

Sure, Hayley could have raised Hope to be a warrior. Trapped her in a house and raised her to train and fight and be ready for all of Klaus' enemies. But how would she be any different than Mikael? Mikael wanted to raise warriors so he neglected and abused his children. Or how Klaus 'raised' Marcel. All of these children grew up to resent their upbringing. Hayley wasn't going to do that. Hope deserved a childhood. Every child does. Children should not pay the price for their parents. This is shown in season 4 when Hayley stops Freya from torturing Keelin. We see numerous times that Klaus supports this. He also wants to protect Hope's innocents. Which is why he gets mad at Freya for helping with the Chambre in season 5 or when Freya tries to help suppress her wolf side. At the end of the day, Klaus and Hayley are Hope's parents and they are on the same page. They wanted their child to have the life they didn't.

And all of this would have worked out great had Klaus not abandoned Hope. If Klaus had stayed in contact with Hope and continued to try and find a solution for the Hollow, Hope could have had a safe and happy childhood. At the end of the day, Klaus was the problem and Hayley was just working with what she had to give her daughter the best possible life. Something Hope appreciated and loved Hayley for.

Thanks for the ask!

[andreal831]

Follow up to the ‘what if the Mikaelson’s had run with Hope’ ask,

What do you think would have happened with the Mikaelson’s if the hollow didn’t show up?

Like, Marcel boots them out of New Orleans and they go to Hayley’s farm. Klaus seemed ready to be a dad but I have to agree with you that he wouldn’t have liked settling down.

Klaus was in a completely different headspace at the beginning of season 4 and the end of season 1. The end of season 3 and beginning of season 4 are actually the only times I actually like Klaus as a character. He needed to be humbled and, for the first time in is life, he actually seemed to learn from his mistakes.

At this point, he had missed out on the majority of Hope's life. He missed the first 6 months, was only around her for less than a year, and then missed five more years. Unlike at the end of season 1, he truly knew what it meant to miss out on his daughter's life. He was ready to give up on his fight for power in New Orleans and run. He also had a lot of PTSD from his time in the dungeons, he was still mourning Cami, mourning his relationship with Marcel, mourning the loss of New Orleans, etc. A nice quiet life in the countryside would have been good for them.

They wouldn't stay at the house Hayley had found. It was too close to New Orleans. I could see them moving to a completely new country, putting an ocean between them and Marcel. I don't think Marcel would go after them as long as they didn't attempt to make a move against him. Rebekah and Kol would likely still leave like they did in Season 4, leaving Elijah, Klaus, Hayley, Freya, and Hope.

Hope would become restless before anyone else. It would be hard for her to be on her own with just her family. Especially as she became a teenager. She would want to make friends.

Elijah, would once again, just love a quiet life where ever they settled. He and Freya would love to tutor Hope in history, music, magic, and whatever else she enjoyed studying. Hayley would enjoy having support and protection after being on her own for so long. She would just be happy to settle somewhere and be able to stay. To have a place to call her home.

Now Klaus would love it at first. He would love the big open yard after being trapped in the dungeon for so many years. He would love watching Hope grow up. He would appreciate ever moment he had because he finally understood how precious his family was. Kol and Rebekah would randomly come back to visit and the four of them would still go on some vacations, although I can see Klaus being paranoid about leaving their home. I can definitely see Hope becoming rebellious against the strict rules of staying out of sight and not attracting attention. Klaus would be paranoid to lose her after he had lost so much. Hope would call Rebekah back to talk some sense into him. Rebekah would be the only one Klaus would trust to show Hope the world since he knows Marcel would never harm Rebekah or Hope.

All in all, they would have had a fairly happy life being away from the faction wars and violence of their past. For the first time, they would actually just be happy.

I made a tik tok a while back that kind of felt like what their life would be like, you can watch it here.

Thanks for the ask!

[andreal831]

Do you think Hayley, Klaus, and Elijah could’ve given hope a better life had they ran away with her at the end of season 1? Or would life on the run be worse for her? Would their lives be happier if they decided to run?

I would love to say they would have a nice quiet life raising Hope if they had run after season 1, but knowing the Mikaelsons it isn't likely. The Mikaelsons were constantly unable to get out of their own ways, making enemies everywhere they went.

I never truly understood why they stayed. I get Hayley felt some duty to her pack and the Mikaelsons wanted to protect their "home." But in reality they had all been living there less than a year. If it was a choice between staying with your newborn child or fighting a war in a place you hardly lived, I would think one would choose the child.

I get Klaus wanting to stay. He wanted an empire and an heir more than anything. He was more concerned about power. Elijah was ready to run, yet Hayley was the one that stopped them. It would make sense if she had immediately gone to take care of her pack, but she didn't. Instead of doing what they said they would and fighting to take back their city, they wallowed in their grief. Which I get, but again, why didn't they just run in the first place if they had no desire to actually fight for the city. I know they were waiting to find where all of the rings were located, but they didn't seem to have much of a plan outside of that.

Now if they had run, we have to remember there would be consequences. The wolves still had the rings that were tied to Klaus and Dahlia was still going to come for them. While they likely would have run to Rebekah and tried to stay hidden, it was only going to last so long before one of their enemies found them. We are never told which witch was hiding Rebekah and Hope, but if Esther was able to get through it, then Dahlia likely would be able to as well. I do actually think Dahlia is less so of a threat if they had run simply because all they had to do was outlast her for a year. I love to picture Dahlia at the airport attempting to follow the Mikaelsons. I always think of the scenes from Hocus Pocus where the witches are stunned by all of the modern technology. Although it likely would have delayed Freya finding her family.

I personally don't think Klaus would like a quiet life in the countryside if their enemies never found them. He would constantly be looking for trouble. Hayley would be able to throw herself in raising her daughter, but even she would get bored eventually. I think only Elijah would like living in hiding.

Eventually, they would return to New Orleans and still have a mess to clean up. Just maybe without Dahlia as a threat.

Thanks for the ask!

[andreal831]

I don’t absolutely despise klaroline, although I definitely do not like them either, but one of the most stupid things in the entirety of the originals is Klaus flirting with Caroline while Hayley and hope is abducted. Would you consider this to be a writing mistake or just Klaus being Klaus? I’ve always wondered if he focused more on finding them if he’d of been able to save Hayley in time.

I've made an entire tik tok about this because I despised this episode since the first time I saw it. I laid out all of the dumb decisions Klaus made in the episode in the tik tok as well as a lengthy caption. You can see that here.

Klaus in Season 5 is terribly written. He may not be my favorite character and I don't like klaroline but everything about him and them in Season 5 was wrong.

Starting with Rebekah calling Caroline to go find Klaus. That made no sense. Why wouldn't Freya or Marcel go find him. They are his family. Marcel has known him for 200 years. It's not like Rebekah thought he wouldn't harm her, he had nearly killed Caroline multiple times. Marcel was upgraded, he would have been the best choice to go and talk some sense into Klaus. Or Freya who could have gone and yelled at him for abandoning Hope.

Just the fact that Klaus was ignoring Hope for five years made no sense to me. I get he was terrified that she would hate him after what she saw, but the end of Season 3 and through Season 4, we began to see a version of Klaus that was actually putting Hope's needs first. This abandonment was a complete regression back to his Season 2 narcissism. Also, Hope not continuing to astral project to find him made no sense. She is a powerful witch, if Caroline could track him down, so could Hope.

Now onto the day of the event.

My biggest gripe is that they are literally driving everywhere. Klaus is the fastest being, why is he taking an SUV that can go max 180 mph? Why did they stop at a rest stop to get coffee? Exhaustion doesn't affect them that way. They are literally flirting and joking around as Hope and Hayley are missing. Sure at this point they may not have realized how serious it was, but Klaus would never have allowed himself to be distracted like that. It was bad writing purely for ratings.

Klaus would rip apart the world to save both Hayley and Hope. Showing him doing anything less is a disservice to his character.

Good writing, writing that is true to Klaus' character would have shown him turning into a wolf to track Hope down. Ansel tells Klaus in Season 2 that he was drawn to Klaus as a child and even to Hope because wolves are drawn to their family. It would have been so satisfying to finally watch Klaus at one with his wolf side in order to find Hope.

It also was so out of character to see Klaus walking slowly to the house. Hayley was actively having her wolf side suppressed and fighting Greta. Klaus would have heard this from miles away and sped as fast as possible to the house. Instead we see him walking at a slow human speed. Caroline is also easily snuck up on by Elijah and Klaus doesn't immediately snap his neck? True-to-character Klaus would have ripped out Elijah's heart to save Hope and Hayley. After all, Elijah would have been fine.

Very little of Season 5 was not just poor writing. There were scenes and plot points that directly contradict established canon. The reason the writing was so bad is because the writers were killing Hayley, Elijah, and Klaus off no matter what. Hayley's death was 1000% preventable. Hayley was a hybrid and a member of the strongest family but was somehow killed by a 100 year old vamp? Say what you will about Klaus, but Klaus definitely would have saved her no matter what. She never should have died but Julie wanted Legacies to have an orphaned Hope and didn't care to make the writing good.

Shameless plug: If you want to read how I would rewrite Season 5 to make more sense, check out my story, Don't It Just Break Your Heart, on AO3 and Wattpad.

[andreal831]

I do think he is more distrusting of men (chalking it up to his sexism) so I do think a potential gf for hope would be a lot less likely to be murdered than a potential groom. Intersting concept though!

See I actually disagree.

If we look at Klaus' past, he has been hurt worse by the women in his life. His first big betrayal wasn't Mikael's abuse, but Esther's lies. Klaus has been raised his whole life to learn how to cope with physical pain but has been unable to deal with his emotional pain. The first thing he does when he has more power is to go after his mother, not his father.

The 'betrayal' by Aurora and Esther plagued him his entire life. When he talks about why he is the way he is, he doesn't often blame Mikael, rather he blames what happened with Aurora and what Esther did to him. He can tolerate Elijah's harsh words and physical attacks better than he can handle Rebekah's potential to leave him.

Don't get me wrong, Klaus isn't afraid to lay hands on a woman, but he doesn't know how to protect himself from that sort of pain. I also don't think he would physically harm Hope's partner because then he would have to deal with Hope.

In his head, he views women as more likely to betray him. He struggles to trust nearly every woman in his life. We see this with Rebekah, Hayley, Genevive (rightly so), Aurora, etc. But then Lucien shows back up and Klaus lets him in, even to the point of arguing with Cami about him.

Klaus thinks he is the smartest, most powerful being so he has nothing to fear from those who would physically challenge him. Rather women emotionally challenge him.

And you're right, it is all based on Klaus' sexist views of how women and men operate differently.

So I could see him being more at ease with her dating a man because he could threaten the man, but he might struggle more with a woman because he might think they are more likely to betray Hope and hurt her emotionally.

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts! It was really interesting to think this through!

[andreal831]

What if Hope was a lesbian? Would her dating life be as under Klaus' thumb as Rebekah's was still?

Hope's sexuality wouldn't impact the amount of control Klaus exerted over her dating life. To me, all of the Mikaelsons seemed very accepting of all types of relationships. For Klaus, it was never about worrying over Rebekah specifically with men, but rather worrying about Rebekah abandoning him for love.

People often confuse "possessive" and "protective" with Klaus. He wasn't protective of Rebekah, he was possessive. I like to think he began to realize this with Hope and potentially learned his lesson, although a lot of her life he remains both protective and possessive.

So it really depends on which version of Klaus we are talking about. Klaus by the end of Season 5 knew he was going to die and leave Hope alone. He was relieved to see her dance with Landon because that meant she wouldn't be completely alone. He knew from Cami how important love was at that point.

If he hadn't been on the verge of dying, he would have been much more of a bully to Landon, or any partner Hope decided to pursue (see how he treated Brody or Brady or whatever that man's name was). He would struggle with the idea of his little girl leaving him for love. Hope was introduced into his life as his "redemption" and this person that would give him "unconditional love." She was meant to be the one person that wouldn't leave him. A romantic partner for Hope would threaten everything he had built his idea of redemption on.

Klaus didn't like Hope to see him angry or lose control, he did try to not be Mikael to Hope. But he would go off the rails in the background, likely needing Hayley or Elijah to talk him down before doing something that would harm Hope emotionally.

I know people get mad when I criticize Klaus' parenting, but I do realize how much he loved her. He would try his hardest to put his love over his own fears, but as we see in Season 4/5, he doesn't do this well.

Any version of Klaus before season 4 would likely try to lock Hope up in a tower the moment she started showing romantic interest to anyone.

I also think it would depend on who was still alive at the time Hope started dating. Cami, Elijah, and Hayley would be the best people to even Klaus' temper out and help him deal with Hope's dating. Especially if Cami was there because he wouldn't feel so alone. And yes, I do find it problematic the pressure Klaus puts on his familial relationships to fill in for his lack of romantic partners.

If they were all dead, it would fall on Freya and Rebekah and maybe Kol. But again, if this is Legacies Mikaelsons, they may all disappear and not help. I like to think Rebekah would be very helpful as she has been through it all with Klaus. Freya and Davina would try to make him back off but Klaus doesn't have a good history of listening to them.

It would really come down to Hope having strong enough feelings to tell him to back off herself. And Hope would definitely do this. Hope has a strong personality that she got from literally everyone in her family. But she has the added bonus of not being afraid of Klaus and not having to fear him hurting her. I don't think it would take Klaus doing much for her to stand up to him. Since Klaus never wants Hope to see him as anything but her hero, he would begrudgingly listen to her. Although he would definitely be sulking in the background and throwing menacing looks to her partner until he learned to like them enough.

Thanks for the ask!

[andreal831]

Okay this is kind of a random ask but if Elijah, Hayley & Klaus - and maybe Cami idk tho - survived (because I refuse to see s5/4 as canon idc) and teen!hope brought a partner home to meet the family how do you think it’d go?

Also if a partner went to Klaus for permission to propose how do you think he’d react?

Btw I love all of your metas<3

First of all, thank you so much for reading! I'm glad you enjoy my posts!

Second, I'm right there with you. I tend to ignore most of Season 4 and 5. Hence all my rewrites. People will bring up things that happened in 4 and 5, and I don't even remember because I hardly rewatch.

I've talked about how Klaus would react to Hope brining home a girl before, here. I mostly just talk about generally how Klaus would react. It's been like 9 months since I wrote it and I still think it's true. It depends on so much. But in this scenario, I'm imagining Cami and him being together. Oddly enough, I think this would make him worse than if Cami had died. When Cami died, he, for the first time, truly understood what it was like to lose love. Which is why he is resistant to the idea of doing the same to his siblings. This is a big shift in his character. So if that hadn't happened, I could see him reverting back to his old ways and being possessive over Hope, not wanting her to fall in love and being angry if someone asked his permission for her hand.

The good thing in this scenario is that all of the people that can put Klaus in his place would be right there, waiting for the moment they are needed. Hope would calm him down, Hayley would put him in his place, Elijah would counsel him, and Cami would make him see reason.

It would also help if their family had spent years living in peace together. He wouldn't feel like he had so much to lose. He would feel more settled with his family. Hope was so important to him because it was the first time he felt like he had unconditional love, despite always having it from his siblings. Having his siblings and Cami around for so long would help convince him that he didn't need to hold onto Hope in a death grip to keep her. Cami, of course, would remind him what happened to his relationship with his siblings when he held on too tight.

I would love a scene of someone asking for Hope's hand and Hope storming into the room, yelling about feminism and how no one owes her. Klaus would just sit back proudly, watching his daughter tear into them. But I like to imagine, if Klaus approved, he would find an important piece of jewelry his family had held onto over the years and give it to the partner to propose.

People always focus on Klaus in these scenarios, but poor Hope and Hope's partner have to deal with all of the Mikaelsons. Elijah would be a formidable force since he doesn't warm up to people quickly. He would take a great deal of joy in making them feel uncomfortable every time they came over. Cami of course would try to overcorrect this and be overly welcoming. Hayley would completely depend on the person. If she liked them, she would be friendly and treat them like family. If she didn't, they wouldn't stand a chance.

I'm just picturing Hope and her partner awkwardly sitting on the couch, Klaus glaring at the teen, Elijah pretending to absentmindedly clean whatever weapon looks scariest, Hayley trying to get to know them through an interrogation, and Cami just offering refreshments and chatter.

We really missed out on a lot when they killed everyone off.

Thanks for the ask!

[andreal831]

Update Tags

I've had a few asks that I wanted to refer to old posts and had trouble finding them, so I went through and added tags to all of my metas and thought I would share if anyone wants to find specific metas I've done:

Main Tag: #andrea831 metas

Mikaelson Tags: #andrea831 metas elijah #andrea831 metas klaus #andrea831 metas rebekah #andrea831 metas freya #andrea831 metas kol #andrea831 metas finn #andrea831 metas mikaelson

TO Characters: #andrea831 metas hayley #andrea831 metas cami #andrea831 metas celeste #andrea831 metas davina #andrea831 metas jackson #andrea831 metas aurora #andrea831 metas josh #andrea831 metas antoinette #andrea831 metas hope #andrea831 metas esther #andrea831 metas mikael #andrea831 metas dahlia #andrea831 metas hollow #andrea831 metas lucien #andrea831 metas tatia

TO Ships/Relationships: #andrea831 metas haylijah #andrea831 metas celijah #andrea831 metas camlijah #andrea831 metas gilijah #andrea831 metas haymille #andrea831 metas klamille #andrea831 metas haylope #andrea831 metas klope #andrea831 metas haybekah #andrea831 metas klarcel #andrea831 metas jayley #andrea831 metas klaurora #andrea831 metas klelijah

TVD Characters: #andrea831 metas bonnie #andrea831 metas elena #andrea831 metas stefan #andrea831 metas damon #andrea831 metas caroline #andrea831 metas enzo #andrea831 metas katherine #andrea831 metas matt #andrea831 metas tyler #andrea831 metas lexi #andrea831 metas kai #andrea831 metas heretics

TVD Ships: #andrea831 metas forewood #andrea831 metas bonenzo #andrea831 metas stelena #andrea831 metas carenzo #andrea831 metas elejah #andrea831 metas kalijah Legacies Characters: #andrea831 metas lizzie #andrea831 metas josie

Anything Related to my stories has this tag: #long live the mikaelsons

My Ongoing Stories: #haylijah in every episode #elijah ships song series

Essentially if you are looking for something I've posted, put my tag and then what you're looking for.

Hope this helps!