#andrea831 metas freya

[andreal831]

you had said a few times in your metas that Elijah taking after Dahlia than his parents was something that made Esther (and by extension Mikael) awkward and more distant with him. but why did it never extended to Kol?

Wouldn't his preference for witchcraft, especially the dark arts, mischievous, cunning and outgoing traits make him more comparable to Dahlia, than say Elijah's warmer and paternal nature?

To me, it's the immediacy of it.

Elijah was born mere months after Dahlia took Freya away. The pain was still fresh for Esther. And then instead of the golden haired daughter, she got a dark haired boy who was calm and quiet, much like Dahlia. She hadn't even gotten the chance to mourn her daughter when they moved to an unknown land with unknown people and she had Elijah quickly after. Kol wasn't born for years after that. And he was born after Klaus, which, in Esther's own words, healed their family.

Esther was in a much better mental place when she had Kol. She had Klaus and Ansel and had settled into her place in the new world.

I also think Finn and Kol's hair darkened as they got older, just based on these two photos up top. Elijah appears to be the only one that grew up with that dark hair. Kol's hair as a kid was still brown, but not as dark.

But to your point about personality, I think Elijah reminded Esther more of Dahlia than Kol did. From what we can see, Dahlia was a parental figure to Esther, just as Elijah was to his siblings. Dahlia wasn't wild and reckless like Kol. Rather, she was willing to do anything for family and loyal to a fault. Kol is a lot more free-spirited and thrill seeking, while Dahlia didn't like that in Esther. Kol likely reminded Esther of a younger version of herself, while Elijah was the younger version of Dahlia.

Thanks for the ask!

[andreal831]

What music do you think all of the Mikaelsons plus Hayley and Cami would listen to?

Ok, this was actually so hard. I tried to do both time period accurate but also today what they would listen to.

Elijah

Elijah would be super pretentious with it and pretend he only has a Spotify account to listen to classical music in the car, because of course live or vinyl is the only way music should be consumed. But we all know he was in his room listening to some Lana, Adele, Dean Lewis, etc. My boy likes to listen to music that makes him feel his sadness. He also really just appreciates well produced music so I think he would really enjoy Billie and Finneas. I also think he would really have liked music in the late 1900s. He would have really enjoyed The Beatles, Billy Joel, Queen, Journey, etc.

Elijah would be obsessed with Hozier. The lyrics, the storytelling, the music, the history. He would learn all of the songs on piano. He would also really like David Kushner and Dermot Kennedy.

No memories Elijah liked to dance and I can just see him really enjoying Conan Gray. He gets to dance and cry all at the same time. But come on, Family Line is his song.

Hayley

I've seen people say Hayley would love Taylor Swift, but she was far too much of a "pick me" for that. She would have been listening to more rock or angry music. The early 2010s were peak emo music. My girl would have been listening to My Chemical Romance, The All-American Rejects, Green Day, Foo Fighters, etc. But she would pretend they were too mainstream for her. She would tell people she only listens to her version of the classics: Metallica, Pantera, Iron Maiden, Avenged Sevenfold, etc.

As she got older, it would be less angsty, but still emotional. Some Halsey, Lorde, Alessia Cara. Hope would get her to listen to Olivia Rodrigo and Sabrina Carpenter, she would enjoy it but tell Hope she needs to listen to the classic. They would both really enjoy listening to Heart, Pat Benatar, and Janet Jackson together.

Klaus

I honestly can't picture Klaus listening to music unless he is painting. So it just depended on his mood and his painting. I could definitely see him painting to Lana and Christina Perri, maybe even some James Arthur. I could see him getting high, listening to Bob Marley or Pink Floyd and painting. He would have enjoyed classic rock.

Hope would try to get him into pop music but he would only listen to the ones he didn't consider basic. He would vibe with Noah Kahan and Phoebe Bridgers.

Cami

Cami was definitely a party girl in Undergrad. She took her classes seriously but she knew how to let loose on the weekends. She was an OG listener to Beyoncé, Rihanna, Charli xcx, etc. Cami would also really love women empowerment music. She would love JoJo (not Siwa, the original), Julia Michaels, Kesha, Lady Gaga.

We just know she would love Because I Liked a Boy since she literally lived it.

She would have loved Paris Paloma if she had lived long enough.

Rebekah

I'm struggling with Rebekah a little bit. But I think she would listen to more soft pop music. Like Julia Michaels, Rachel Chinouriri, Lewis Capaldi, Mariah Cary (her older music), etc. But Rebekah would eat up boy bands too. She would definitely have fan girl'ed for the Backstreet Boys and NSYNC had she not bee daggered during their prime. She would enjoy Harry Styles and Jess McCartney.

She would have been so mad at Klaus for keeping her daggered during the 90s girl bands. She would have been obsessed with Spice Girls and Destiny's Child.

Freya

I see Freya being a country pop girl. She would have been exposed to such little music each time she was awaken. But I think she would have really liked Kelly Clarkson, Miranda Lambert, Dolly Parton, Kacey Musgraves, etc. She would be obsessed with Shania Twain. She would always stand up and dance to Man I feel like a Woman every time it came, loving living in a time where she could be a woman and free.

But she also liked to dance and have fun. She would have loved Bruno Mars, Rihanna, Sean Paul, Beyonce, etc. Beyonce's Cowboy Carter would be on repeat. But she would be willing to listen to anything. Hope would constantly be showing her new music.

She would love Chappell Roan, Renee Rapp, Kehlani, Fletcher, Muna, Hayley Kiyoko, Towa Bird, etc. Any sapphic artist.

Kol

All I know about Kol is that he doesn't like Icelandic folk music. He would like slow music to dance to and then just whatever Davina liked. Davina would be introducing him to Miley Cyrus, Taylor Swift, Selena Gomez, etc., and whatever club music Josh was listening to.

Also, just Kol listening to Rude by MAGIC! on repeat because we know Marcel never warmed up to him.

If they all had lived, Josh, Cami, Freya, Davina, and Kol would have been obsessed with Brat.

Finn

I don't know if Finn ever lived long enough to enjoy music. I think music would honestly be so overwhelming to him. He went from music being a harp and lute to the insane production we have today. I think just starting him off listening to Chopin or Mozart before throwing him into Ariana Grande would be wise. This man wouldn't even know what a piano is. I think he would eventually enjoy more soul or jazz music. Like Leon Bridges, Etta James, Frank Ocean. Especially being in New Orleans. He would like to go to jazz bars and just discover new artists.

Hope

Hope would get all of these people listening to modern music. She would be dragging them to go see Taylor Swift, Olivia Rodrigo, Sabrina Carpenter, etc. And I just know her and Freya would go see Chappell.

What do you all think? This is really interesting.

[andreal831]

What filler episode type of storylines and/or scenes would you have liked to see on TO?

Some of my favorite episodes are the Christmas episodes because, while they still have chaos in them, they also just give the Mikaelsons time to be a family.

They created a whole show to be based off a miracle baby and then we hardly got to see them raise this baby. I would have loved to see more holiday episodes. We didn't get to see any of Hope's first anythings. She just kind of grew up off screen.

I would have also loved just a couple of cute romantic episodes. The closest we get is Freelin's wedding and I couldn't even enjoy it since Hayley had literally just died.

I loved Elijah and Marcel bonding and would have loved to see more of their relationship, instead of the show tanking that. Or more of Rebekah learning about what she wanted in life. More of Hayley actually being an alpha.

Obviously just more haylijah. I don't even believe we see the first "I love you." I find it hard to believe they waited until Season 4. I would have loved to see more scenes of Hayley actually getting to feel her emotions in Season 2 and 3, rather than just pushing her into things.

Also would have loved more flashbacks. I wanted to see how the Strix were founded. Or Kol working with witches. Rebekah discovering she wanted to be a mother. Just anything to flesh out the characters more.

The show just really could have slowed down slightly and let emotions land. I felt like a lot of big moments fell flat because the characters didn't even get a chance to feel their emotions. They just shoved them down and moved onto the next thing.

Thanks for the ask!

[andreal831]

what do you think the mikaelsons would have looked like if freya had never been taken? would klaus have been born? would mikael have stayed a decent parent (he might still be a shitty husband though)?

This is so interesting to think about!

I think it's safe to say Klaus would not have been born and none of the other younger children. The butterfly effect and all that.

So we would have had Finn, Freya, Elijah, and some unknown children.

For Mikael, it's really hard to say because we don't get to see much (or really any) of him before they lost Freya. We get vague descriptions from Esther and Freya. But Freya was a small child and Esther basically just said he was "better" and they were "happy." This could really mean anything. But, giving them the benefit of the doubt, that losing Freya broke Mikael, I still think he would be a problematic husband and father.

Him being a problematic husband seemed to come from the time period. I'm not excusing it, just saying it didn't fully have to do with Freya's "death." I do think he blamed Esther for Freya's death and it caused an anger in him that never died. But I also can't see him being a kind and doting husband. He would have found a reason to be angry with her. Whether it was because none of the boys were strong enough or something else, he would have found a reason to be angry. But again, it's hard to say.

He may have been better to his daughters, but a lot of his abuse to his sons was to 'make them warriors.' He may have been less severe because he didn't have the pain of already having lost a child, but he tells Davina that he was training her like he was trained. Even without a necklace keeping Klaus weak, there would still be a weakest child. I think this child would bare the brunt of Mikael's abuse. But it probably wouldn't be to the extreme that we saw.

Finn would have done well not being the eldest sibling. To me, he never stepped up because he always remembered he wasn't the eldest. Him stepping up would erase his big sister. So Elijah had to. Freya would have relieved Elijah of that duty. We would have seen a much more relaxed Elijah. We see a lot of who Elijah would have been without the burden of his family when he erases his memories. He would have been much more like that, enjoying just being a middle child. He still would be protective of his younger siblings, but out of love, not necessity.

Finn and Elijah probably still wouldn't be close because Finn would have been jealous of Freya's attention to Elijah. Freya was already excited about Elijah while Esther was pregnant. She was likely too young to really understand Finn's birth, so Elijah was the first sibling she really got to baby. Freya and Elijah would have had a close bond. Different than Finn and Freya, but just as close.

Freya and Elijah would have loved taking care of their younger siblings together. I also think Freya would have been able to protect them more from Mikael. First because Mikael adored her in a way we don't see him adore another child, until Klaus initially. Second, because she was a powerful witch. Freya loved Mikael like she did because she didn't see what he did to her siblings. If she had, she would have protected them against him.

They all likely would have had a much better life, remaining in Europe and no one being killed by wolves. They would have lived and died as humans.

Thanks for the ask!

[andreal831]

Do you think the Mikaelsons would have had different dynamics if they weren't born in that order? Like if Klaus was older than Elijah, or Rebekah older than them?

I think it could make some slight differences but I also think a lot of their behavior is just their personality/trauma responses.

For example, Elijah's behavior has more to do with what was happening in their family while he was born/young rather than his birth order. How Elijah behaves, he seems like he would be an eldest child, but he is actually a middle child. However, because his family had lost Freya and was going through a turbulent time, a lot of pressure and responsibility was put on him. He steps up and acts like the oldest sibling.

Same thing with Rebekah. Yes, she is the baby and often acts like it and is treated like it from her siblings. However, it is also because they had lost Freya and she was the only girl. Even if she had been born the oldest, they still would have treated her like the baby if they had lost Freya. She also lived through a lot of time periods where women were treated as second class citizens and that affects how she interacts with the world and even how her siblings view her.

Kol would be Kol no matter where he was born. He has a very independent nature and likely wouldn't have stepped up if he was the oldest. Not because he can't handle responsibility, but because he wouldn't allow his siblings to be pawned off on him like Elijah did. He probably would have taken off earlier if he had been the oldest.

Finn never acted like the oldest sibling. A big part of this is because he was traumatized as a youngest sibling. He loved Freya and clearly holds onto those memories, when he was the youngest with a big sister looking after him. After he lost Freya and became a big brother, he never took on the role of the big brother. Rather he behaved as if he was an only child. If he had been born last, maybe he would have felt closer to his family because he wouldn't be so traumatized by losing Freya and wouldn't have developed an unhealthy attachment to his mother. But it was that trauma that influenced him more than his birth order.

Freya is an interesting one because, while she is the oldest, she is also the youngest. Yes, she was born first, but she also has the least amount of life experience. Even Finn was awake more than her over the thousand years. I wish the show would have played more into this. She wanted to be the oldest and take on the responsibilities of the family but she didn't know how. The family was so used to letting Elijah fill that spot that they had trouble letting Freya take over. Freya does have a take charge personality so even if she had been born last or in the middle, she likely would still partner up with Elijah to take care of the rest of them.

Klaus is the only one who really felt like his birth order. He is very much the stereotypical middle child. He loves to boss his baby siblings around but also loves to sit back and let his older siblings clean up his mess. Although, I don't think him being born in a different order would affect his behavior. A lot of the time he is pretending to be the "leader" of the family while Elijah is handling things behind the scene. He is also very much treated like the baby of the family by Elijah and Rebekah and even Freya at times. A lot of his behavior is from how Esther and Mikael treated him as a child. Esther seemed to baby him and, of course, Mikael abused him. This dynamic stunted his emotional growth. And again, this wasn't because of his birth order but because of his parents.

Thanks for the ask!

[andreal831]

can you elaborate on klaus' relationships with his sisters?

I've talked about Klaus and Rebekah several times, but I don't think I've ever really talked about Klaus and Freya. I've talked about Klaus' abuse to Rebekah, his lack of respect for Rebekah, and how Klaus has issues with women, which are all relevant here.

People like to paint Klaus as being a protective brother, but in reality he is possessive, not protective. He isn't protective over his sisters because he loves them, he is possessive because he doesn't want to be alone.

I'm not saying he doesn't love them, he does in his own way. But he's actually incredibly abusive to both of them. I think it's fascinating how the fandom holds Klaus and either sister up as these "close bonds" when in reality they are so forced by the writers.

Klaus and Rebekah

Klaus and Rebekah at least have their childhood to explain Rebekah's devotion to her brother. Just like Elijah, she has a twisted need to defend Klaus through everything. In TVD, she did it even more than Elijah. Klaus abused her over and over again and she continued to defend him. A lot of this can be a symptom of abuse. He made her feel so lonely and afraid that if she left him, she would have no one. He made sure she had no one by continuously robbing her of any relationship outside of him. Anytime she would fall in love, he would kill them.

To me, I don't find their relationship sweet because even when they are having their "sweet" moments, it just reminds me of how abusers will apologize and promise to be better. But Klaus never really does better by Rebekah. They just stop being in each others lives. Klaus exiles Rebekah because of the one time she actually tried to defend herself. Then he only calls her back when he needs her to take care of Hope. Once again, we only see them interact when Klaus needs Rebekah to offer herself up to Esther. He compels Marcel to kill her witch body, forcing her back into her vampire body. Then they have brief sweet moments when Rebekah is in and out of their lives until he dies. He doesn't even contact her when he is on a bender for years.

At the very end he "gets" her the cure, although it is not his to offer or promise. Rebekah had the same ability to get it from Elena and Damon. It was just a way to "fix" their relationship without putting in any effort. He never really feels remorse for putting her through hell for a thousand years. Rebekah stated she never got a chance to live and it is because of Klaus.

I get that Claire was out of the show for most of TO which prevented them from repairing their relationships, but given how little effort the writers put into Klaus' familial relationships, I don't think it would have made a difference.

Klaus and Freya

Klaus didn't trust Freya in the beginning and I don't fully blame him for it. But his abuse to her didn't just end with him killing her and tormenting her over her dead unborn child. For most of their relationship, he only spoke to her when he needed a witch or a babysitter. The shift in their relationship comes out of nowhere and is essentially just Freya moving on from the abuse and Klaus continuing to undermine her without apologizing for anything.

They, like with Rebekah, have moments of tenderness from Klaus, but they are few and far between. For the most part, they either don't interact, or when they do Klaus is usually demanding and rude. Freya at least stands up to him more, but it does little to change Klaus' attitude.

I also feel like Klaus just uses the same line with all of his siblings. You have the "You are my sister" moment with Freya which mirrors the "You are a Mikaelson" moment with Kol. He is essentially dismissing their complaints about his abuse because they are family and he loves them. He's all words but no follow through. He promises that family means everything to him but has a thousand years of evidence to say the opposite. I wish Freya had remained more like season 2 Freya with Klaus. The Mikaelsons desperately needed an older sibling to actually protect them against Klaus. Freya would be perfect for this since their relationship started off so bad and she didn't have history with him. Freya initially was, but the writers couldn't let anyone stay mad at Klaus for too long, lest they actually have to hold him accountable for things.

My problem with Klaus and his family or really any relationship, we are told to like their bond more than shown why we should. The only person we see him spend extended amount of time with is Cami. Everyone else he just seems to use and they love him for some reason. But we don't really see him treat them well or earn that love. He just gets unconditional love from his family, which is ironic considering how much he complains about not having that.

Freya naming her son after Klaus was so much fanservice. She clearly would have named her son Finn, you know the brother she had missed for a thousand years and that died protecting her. Even Klaus helping Elijah walk Freya down the aisle was just because the writers had to center Klaus in everything. But he was not the logical choice for that. Throughout the show, we see Elijah and Freya bonding over the hardships of family in a way we don't see with Klaus and Freya.

All of this to say, the writers really failed to develop Klaus' relationships with nearly every character in the show. They used his abusive behavior toward his sisters as the punchline of the joke half of the time. But because the writers throw in a couple of sweet lines, the fandom pretends that Klaus and his sisters were actually close.

Klaus had the ability to be close with his sister and probably had a lot in common with each of them. The writers just cared more about ratings and drama than to center a show about family around the actual family.

Thanks for the ask! Sorry, I kind of went on a rant.

[andreal831]

Do youn think Esther loved all of her children equally and how her relation with Elijah was?

I think Esther is a lot more of a complex character than people want her to be. It's easier if she can just be painted as an awful mother. But it is clear Esther did love her kids, all of them. Just differently. I don't think you can truly measure love in quantity, but she definitely had favorites and least favorites.

Esther loved Freya so much that losing Freya fundamentally changed who she was. She wanted to be a mother so badly that she was willing to do anything to make it happen. People often blame her more for trading Freya for the ability to have children, but don't blame Dahlia for making her own sister trade away her first child. Esther was young when she made that deal and didn't fully know what it meant. She also probably naively believed her sister wouldn't steal her child. But she loved Freya dearly.

Esther also loved Finn a great deal however their relationship grew twisted and toxic because of the loss they both shared. She essentially trauma bonded with her four year old child. Finn's trauma is rarely discussed but it is clear that his mother became his safety after losing Freya. He would do anything for her and Esther exploited this at times and even used him for emotional support. She did love Finn, but the trauma colored that love.

Elijah is her least favorite child. She basically admits it when she tells Klaus that he brought joy to their lives and made them a family again after losing Freya. She was heavily pregnant with Elijah when she lost Freya meaning Elijah's birth and multiple years of life did not bring their family joy or make them feel like a family. Although it's important to remember that while pregnant, she lost her child and moved across the ocean to a new land where she was alone with a volatile husband as this was also the period where Mikael starts becoming a bad/potentially abusive husband. I can't imagine she didn't experience some level of post-partum depression after having him. To top it off, Elijah favors Dahlia more than either of his parents. He likely reminded her of her sister and everything she had lost.

She views Elijah as more of a second parent. She expects him to always behave and keep his siblings in line. When the others step out of line, she has more sympathy for them. She offers Finn, Kol, Klaus, and Rebekah second chances in witch bodies but tortures Elijah, mocking him for what he is and that he is no longer her "noble son." We never see any exchanges between Elijah and Esther that have any type of warmth. This doesn't mean she didn't love him, but hey have a very strained/neglectful relationship.

Klaus is her favorite child. He was the only child she had with the man she truly loved. Even though Klaus seemed to get the brunt of Mikael's anger, he also gets the most protection from Esther. To the point that Finn is jealous of this attention. Klaus arguably did the absolute most vile deeds that should disgust Esther but she still showed love and compassion to him. He was the problematic child that could do no wrong.

Kol is pretty low on the ranks but still above Elijah simply because he had magic. Esther would have wanted to pass on her magic somewhere even is she wasn't truly practicing. She would have loved it but also feared it. Kol would have also driven her crazy because he was always so independent and often getting in trouble.

Rebekah has a special place in her mother's heart as the only daughter she had after losing Freya. It would have been painful at first as she looked so much like the child Esther lost, but she would have viewed it as a second chance. Rebekah always had a soft spot for Esther and losing her mother devastated her.

Henrik is pretty high at the top simply because he is the youngest. Henrik seemed to have a happy spirit from the few brief moments we see him. The baby of the family is always special. His death sent Esther into such a spiral that she created vampirism.

None of this means I think Esther is an awful mother. There are definitely terrible things she does, but at the end of it, she truly loved her children. Was she the best mother in the word, no. But we have to remember she was a young woman who was also a victim.

Thanks for the ask!

[andreal831]

Hello I have a new fic coming (wish I could finish them instead of making new one but what can i do.) where Elijah, Klaus and Kol were all born girls and I love your metas, so was wondering how you think it would change their childhoods? With Finn and Henrik being the only boys, and the differences in how Mikael and Esther would treat them given they would have different expectations for different genders?

my fancasts for them

Hi!

First, I love your fancast. I think each actress fits the characters so well.

This is such a fascinating idea. I think it would change the dynamic a lot. I've said before, they would remain largely the same character as gender doesn't fundamentally change who they are, but how they are treated due to their gender would.

Elijah would get even more hate from his parents than he did as a boy. He would remind Esther of Dahlia, the sister who had just stolen their golden child. Esther would have trouble giving Elijah love and attention as the mere sight of her reminded Esther of Dahlia. While Mikael would resent her because she was a reminder of the daughter they lost simply for being a daughter. He would also have looked forward to a warrior since at this point Finn has proven he was not one, likely due to the trauma of watching his sister get stolen. Elijah would largely be ignored by both parents, much like he was in cannon.

Klaus would be largely ignored by Mikael. Mikael took interest in Klaus simply because he saw him as a little warrior. But here, by the time Klaus was born, Mikael wouldn't resent Klaus just for being a girl, but wouldn't care for him as he would have a boy. This would likely save Klaus a lot of pain and allowed her to grow up a very different person. While Esther would adore Klaus. She would be a reminder of Ansel and also be protected from Mikael as Mikael would have had less say in raising a girl. There would be less fear of her triggering her curse and the necklace that weakens her wouldn't cause so much havoc. Klaus would be the daughter she lost and would be so precious to Esther. Klaus would likely become the mama's girl that Finn always was, spending much of her time with her mother.

By the time Kol was born, Mikael would be annoyed each time Esther got pregnant. Convinced that he wouldn't get a son. He would be even harder on Finn as he is the only chance at a warrior son. Poor Finn would likely suffer much of the abuse that Klaus missed out on. Kol would be loved by Esther as the only witch, but never as loved as Klaus. But Kol wouldn't care. She was always wild and independent. She would get into all kinds of trouble behaving in ways women weren't supposed to. She and Rebekah would be close and would drive Elijah mad as she attempted to cover for them and all of their adventures.

Rebekah would largely remain the same. She would love having so many sisters. I think she would be less petty and, for lack of a better term, "pick me." She wouldn't feel the need to tear down women to impress her brothers. She would be much more comfortable just being herself with so many sisters to learn from. But I think she would still be a bit of a brat as the youngest sister. Her sisters would still baby her. Esther would love her as the last daughter, especially because there is such a gap between her and Henrik. Mikael wouldn't pay much attention to her. But he didn't really in cannon either.

There would be so much pressure on Henrik to be the perfect warrior. Mikael would neglect all of the children once Henrik was born, devoting all of his time to make sure Henrik was the best possible warrior he could be. Henrik would likely not be the happy, carefree boy we saw in flashbacks. He would be much more like Klaus. He would try to find happiness in his siblings, but would suffer abuse and feel resentful that he was the only one being treated that way. He likely would have a lot of resentment towards Finn for not taking any of the heat off of him from Mikael.

I hope this helps! Let me know when you post, I can't wait to read!

[andreal831]

Do you think the TVDU lacked female friendships in its shows? Like, I can’t think of any meaningful female friendships in TVD outside of Elena, Bonnie, and Caroline. The women were always either not getting along or had very little interaction.

I think TO was worse when it came to this. Outside of the occasional Hayley/Rebekah, Hayley/Cami scenes, the women didn’t really interact. Though I think this is more so due to TO not really focusing on any relationships that weren’t familial. (And the lack of female characters in general.) Hayley and Freya were the only two female characters who were main characters for the majority of the show, yet their friendship only blossomed offscreen between the s4 and s5 time jump.

While I’m not a fan of Legacies, I think that show definitely did better with this aspect with Hope/Lizzie, Hope/Josie, etc.

Anyway, I love your blog and would love to hear your thoughts on this!

Hi love! I love to discuss female friendships and the lack of them in TVDU.

I feel like the show loved to have these friendships in the background but put almost zero effort into them.

I will always love Bonnie, Elena, and Caroline. I especially loved Bonnie and Caroline's bond after Elena left. Yes, they all had problems and at times weren't the best of friends, but the bond was always there. They were all willing to sacrifice themselves for each other. But the most important aspect of their friendship was the day to day. I loved the little moments of friendship we got throughout the show. There were definitely things I would change and improve but they had the best friendship in the show.

Now, in TO, we get almost nothing. Like I said, we have background friendships, Hayley/Rebekah, Hayley/Cami, Rebekah/Davina, Hayley/Davina, etc. But the show invests almost no time in the friendships. I agree with your point that TO just didn't "waste" time on relationships, romantic or platonic. It is one of my biggest complaints. We hardly got any scenes of just pure friendship. To me, the best TO friendship is Davina and Josh and even that is limited.

In TO, the women tend to revolve around the men because the show revolves around the Mikaelson men, and more specifically Klaus. Even when the women are interacting, they are often interacting because of the men. We finally see a good friendship between women in the later seasons, Hayley and Freya, and as you said, it happens off screen and only after the Mikaelson men are forced out of NOLA.

I do think it would have been different had Claire Holt been able to stay on the show as a main character. Season 1 showed her friendships with Davina and Hayley and I think her and Cami would have bonded quickly. Unfortunately she wasn't able to and the show was still going to revolve around the Mikaelsons. They tried to just pass the relationships onto Freya as Rebekah's replacement, but there was just too much already going on at that point and they were having to build up her relationship with her family (the men) from nothing. Unlike Rebekah who already had established relationships with her brothers. This made Freya's relationships with the other women more strained.

Also, I would be remiss if I don't mention this is another reason Cami's death was so stupid. She was a central figure, uniting the different characters, and had probably the most important relationships with other women.

Honestly, the edits I've seen of Hope, Lizzie, and Josie are the only reason I debate watching Legacies. It seems like the show did a better job of recapturing the TVD friendships and even improved upon it.

Thank you for the ask and for reading my long winded metas <33

[andreal831]

i just rewatched TO 2x15-19 and man Freya's backstory is so horrible. i feel so bad for her, the fear you see in her eyes when she sees Dahlia again in 2x18 gave me shivers. also Klaus being such a dick to her makes him rescuing her in s3's Heart Shaped Box such a nice moment. i want to give s2 Freya a big hug. also what the hell is that accent she's doing? it only starts to appear in the episode where she removes Finn from Vincent, it's not in the witch asylum episodes.

Riley deserves all of the praise for her acting, especially in Season 2. Her entrance was so scary and iconic, yet she quickly won us over with her pain and fear.

I wish they wouldn't have modernized Freya so quickly. Every time I watch Season 2, I'm always surprised by Freya because she changes so much so quickly. I liked her Season 2 accent. It felt out of place which was so accurate for her. Kind of like how you can't really pin down Elijah's accent. I feel like them all being British is such a weird choice since they all spent very little of their life (that we know of) actually in England. Freya would have picked up strange accents as she only lived a year every hundred years and it seems like in different places.

I also laugh every time people say Freya and Klaus were the closest relationship Freya had outside of Finn. Freya naming her son Nik made no sense. He was the least welcoming, literally killing her after she let herself be vulnerable. Can you imagine Cami breaking Klaus' neck after he let her in to his head in Season 1?? He would have been devastated but he did that to Freya without hesitation.

Season 2 Freya deserved so much more. I do understand their hesitancy since they had so many enemies. But she proved herself to them over and over again.

I do think her character was never very consistent as she seemed to fill empty roles more than have her own personality at times. I wish the writers would have established her as her own person rather than a fill in for Rebekah or Cami.

I don't talk about Freya enough, so thanks for the ask!

[andreal831]

How do you think the Mikaelsons would’ve dealt with covid - like would they have isolated or would they have thought that beneath them? etc.

Interesting question. They would all handle it so differently. This would be about two-ish years after the end of Season 4 so everyone would be separated.

Freya would be the most impacted by it. Not only is she mortal, but her girlfriend is a doctor. Keelin would be volunteering for every shift she could given her werewolf healing abilities. She would take it as a duty to save as many lives as she could since hers wouldn't be in jeopardy, unlike her follow doctors. But Freya wouldn't have that perk. Keelin would refuse to see Freya until the vaccine was created. She wouldn't risk brining home germs that could get Freya sick, especially since they didn't know the impact vampire blood would have on curing COVID.

Klaus would be the least impacted. He was already spiraling and wouldn't have let a silly thing like a pandemic stop him. He wouldn't even need to be worried about anyone in his family since they were all basically immune to human viruses. He would just assume Freya was fine. He would continue wrecking havoc on everyone he saw. He would be annoyed that everything was shut down and he had to actually go find his food the hard way.

Kol and Davina wouldn't mind. They would be bummed that they had to cancel all of their travel plans, but they would make the best of it. They had nearly lost each other so many times and would love to isolate together. They could finally, actually, get to know each other in a normal way since they didn't really know anything about the other before. Kol would begrudgingly wear a mask in public but often forget to cover his nose despite Davina constantly reminding him. He wouldn't let Davina out of the house in anything less than medical grade mask. He would be paranoid of losing her once again.

Rebekah and Marcel would also hunker down for most of the pandemic. Marcel would be concerned about New Orleans and how his city was coping, but other than that, they also would enjoy the peace. Rebekah and Marcel would play their part and wear masks in public, despite neither of them needing them. But Rebekah just wants to feel human and Marcel is happy to go along with it.

Hayley would be managing New Orleans and worried about Hope. But the Salvatore School would not shut down as most of their residence don't have anywhere to go and can't even get sick. Hayley would debate pulling Hope back home since travel was limited and she wouldn't want to be stuck away from her daughter for months. Hope would initially go back to New Orleans with Freya and Hayley but after a few months, she would miss her friends and return to school. Hayley would help the wolves who would struggle because a lot of their jobs closed. She would make sure they were taken care of. Hope and Hayley would also wear masks and Hayley would be very cautious to change her clothes as soon as she got home to make sure she didn't get Freya sick. Hayley would do all of their shopping to limit Freya's exposure, which would drive Freya mad, but she would appreciate the gesture.

Elijah would be in France with Antoinette. They would struggle since Antoinette doesn't use daylight rings and relies on hunting food at night. With everything closed, she would be limited in options. They would have to get creative on luring people out and would likely relocate to a bigger city where there were more options. They would both wear masks to not draw attention to themselves. But they also wouldn't mind isolating at home and getting to know each other better. This would have been early in their relationship.

Thanks for the ask!

[andreal831]

Update Tags

I've had a few asks that I wanted to refer to old posts and had trouble finding them, so I went through and added tags to all of my metas and thought I would share if anyone wants to find specific metas I've done:

Main Tag: #andrea831 metas

Mikaelson Tags: #andrea831 metas elijah #andrea831 metas klaus #andrea831 metas rebekah #andrea831 metas freya #andrea831 metas kol #andrea831 metas finn #andrea831 metas mikaelson

TO Characters: #andrea831 metas hayley #andrea831 metas cami #andrea831 metas celeste #andrea831 metas davina #andrea831 metas jackson #andrea831 metas aurora #andrea831 metas josh #andrea831 metas antoinette #andrea831 metas hope #andrea831 metas esther #andrea831 metas mikael #andrea831 metas dahlia #andrea831 metas hollow #andrea831 metas lucien #andrea831 metas tatia

TO Ships/Relationships: #andrea831 metas haylijah #andrea831 metas celijah #andrea831 metas camlijah #andrea831 metas gilijah #andrea831 metas haymille #andrea831 metas klamille #andrea831 metas haylope #andrea831 metas klope #andrea831 metas haybekah #andrea831 metas klarcel #andrea831 metas jayley #andrea831 metas klaurora #andrea831 metas klelijah

TVD Characters: #andrea831 metas bonnie #andrea831 metas elena #andrea831 metas stefan #andrea831 metas damon #andrea831 metas caroline #andrea831 metas enzo #andrea831 metas katherine #andrea831 metas matt #andrea831 metas tyler #andrea831 metas lexi #andrea831 metas kai #andrea831 metas heretics

TVD Ships: #andrea831 metas forewood #andrea831 metas bonenzo #andrea831 metas stelena #andrea831 metas carenzo #andrea831 metas elejah #andrea831 metas kalijah Legacies Characters: #andrea831 metas lizzie #andrea831 metas josie

Anything Related to my stories has this tag: #long live the mikaelsons

My Ongoing Stories: #haylijah in every episode #elijah ships song series

Essentially if you are looking for something I've posted, put my tag and then what you're looking for.

Hope this helps!

[andreal831]

If you don’t mind, can you make a post ranking all of the mothers in TVDU (e.g. Esther, Lily, Hayley, Caroline, Liz, etc)?

Ranking of TVDU Mothers, Worst to Best:

16. Dahlia

While Dahlia is not Freya's biological mother, she raised her. She was the only maternal figure Freya had over a thousand years. It goes without saying why Dahlia is dead last. While she is an excellent villain with a complex backstory, it doesn't change the fact that she was awful to Freya. So much so that Freya tried to take her own life, causing her to lose her baby. Dahlia had no love for Freya, only seeing her as a tool for power. She was ready to discard Freya as soon as a more powerful, easier to manipulate option came along. Dahlia never viewed herself as Freya's mother, which explains why she put no effort into being a good one.

15. Kelly Donovan

It's honestly surprising how good of a guy Matt is considering he had Kelly as his only role model. Kelly abandoned her kids when they are both in high school to chase after a man, forcing Matt to work nearly full time to afford to live and take care of Vicki who had a known drug problem. She only ever showed back up when she needed something and wound up causing havoc in her children's lives. While we can feel sympathy for Kelly losing her daughter the way she did, Kelly then continues to abandon her son, forcing Matt to deal with the loss on his own. Matt throughout the series is seen struggling much more than his friends due to his financial insecurity and his very warranted emotional attachment issues. Every other male character is given slack for having mommy-issues, but Kelly really did a number on Matt and he is given no sympathy by anyone. Not even the other parents on the show who could have stepped up and helped.

We also can't forget her SAing her son's best friend, Tyler.

14. Greta Sienna

We don't know much of how Greta was before Klaus killed her husband, but Greta allowed her hate and need of vengeance to consume her, shifting her focus away from her children, Roman and Antoinette. While she did care for them, risking Klaus' wrath to protect them, she then largely abandons them to lead her cult. Greta attempts to influence her children with her ideals, however, when Antoinette does not follow her beliefs, their relationship seemed to suffer. Roman also spent 50 years desiccating before Greta saves him. When they are reunited she uses him to get close to Hope, putting him in danger of angering the Mikaelsons. She then drags Antoinette into the conflict by manipulating both her daughter and Elijah with lies. Greta repeatedly put her own anger and hatred over her children, and it almost cost them their lives.

13. Lily Salvatore

We are told that Lily cares for her sons, and we even get glimpse of it throughout the show. But like Greta, Lily largely abandons them for her cult. She gets some credit for attempting to take her sons and run, but then quickly loses them for letting her son take the blame for the missing money and be beaten by his father. Lily then fakes her own death, forcing her sons to mourn her, all the while leaving them behind to face the abuse she was aware of from their father. While she is a ripper and potentially worried about harming her children, the fact that she didn't hunt down Giuseppe and kill him puts her pretty low in the ranking. Damon and Stefan would have been better off being orphaned at that point. But we see her getting control of herself enough to form her new family, never once going back for her children.

Even when she is released from the prison world, she prioritizes her new family over her sons. While I have sympathy for Lily for what she likely went through with her husband, it doesn't redeem her as a mother. Stefan does attempt to repair their relationship, but it is in a large part due to his forgiveness and less of an effort on her part. She is a better mother to her heretics, but even then, prioritizes Julian over their needs until the very end. She gets a couple of points for sacrificing herself to protect her heretics, who she viewed as her children more than her own sons, however, it does little to help her rank as a mother.

12. Isobel Flemming

Isobel does get some credit for knowing she wasn't ready to have a child since she was only a teenager, hoping Elena would have a better life with the Gilberts. But her caring more about her ancestor, Katherine Pierce, than her own daughter puts her pretty far down on the list. It seems that a lot of her actions against Elena are either from being compelled by Klaus or just fearing him, however, nearly all of her actions throughout the show seem to be putting her own daughter in harms way.

While Isobel clearly never wanted children and does not appear to be very maternal, she at least had the compassion for Elena to tell John to get Elena away from the Salvatores. While, as an audience, we may love the supernatural relationships, as a mother, Isobel did not want Elena to be invovled in the dangerous, supernatural world.

11. Katherine Pierce

Katherine was forced to give away her daughter and that clearly stuck with her. We see glimpses of the mother Katherine could have been had her life been different, but that unfortunately wasn't the mother Nadia had. Katherine did attempt to search for her missing daughter when Nadia was still a child, which is more than a lot of these mothers do, however, when given a second chance with Nadia, Katherine struggles to bond her.

Like everyone, Katherine has some valid reasons for her actions, but it doesn't fix how she treated her daughter. Much of their relationship seems to be Katherine using Nadia, prioritizing Stefan over her own daughter. She gets some credit for being by Nadia's side at the very end, however, it's a little too late.

10. Esther

This is a complex one because on one hand, Esther tried to murder her children multiple times. But on the other, she truly did lover her children in the classic toxic, Mikaelson way.

Esther only has her children thanks to her sister, Dahlia, and a bargain they made forcing her to give up her first born child. Esther is clearly devastated by this deal when she realizes just what it cost her, effecting her relationship with each of her children later.

Like Lily, Esther should have done more for her children to protect them in an abusive household. However, unlike Lily, Esther never leaves them. She does attempt to shield them from Mikael's abuse, often putting him to sleep or lying to Mikael to protect her children from her mistakes. Even after Klaus murders her, she still shows him forgiveness. Yes, she is attempting to kill him at that point, but I can't fully blame her.

At least the next time when Esther comes back, she attempts to give them another option rather than just death. While her actions are questionable, she does it out of love, which is more than a lot of the mothers on this list can say. At the end she sacrifices her life for her children. Similar to Katherine, it is too late, but it is clear she has a complex relationship with all of her children. They all show a fondness for her at points, signifying that there is mutual love there. Her sacrifice at the end at least allowed her children to attempt to remember her fondly.

9. Abby Bennett

At least when Abby abandoned her daughter, she left her in good hands. It is clear Abby loved Bonnie, but for whatever reason decided she couldn't raise her. However, watching her prioritize her adoptive son over Bonnie was devastating. Bonnie didn't deserve that.

She gets some credit for showing up a few times when she was needed, however, the fact that she didn't even know Bonnie died shows just how out of touch she is with her own daughter. Abby's motivations are unclear as to why she couldn't be more present in Bonnie's life. They hint at it a few times, but the fact that Abby didn't even bother to show up for Bonnie when Grams died or when she lost her father speaks volumes.

8. Liz Forbes

Liz and Caroline have a complicated relationship. Liz ends up raising Caroline on her own after husband abandons them. However, Liz's focus on her career tends to put a strain on their relationship. It only gets worse when Liz finds out Caroline is a vampire. Liz takes a lot of time, but eventually comes around to it and accepts Caroline, even saying she is proud of her. Liz standing up for Caroline against Bill was such a great moment for them.

Liz has the benefit of living longer than a lot of the mothers which allows her and Caroline to repair their relationship and even develop a close bond.

But she loses massive points for ignoring the twenty-something year old man hanging around her daughter and then later befriending him. Yes, she didn't know what Damon did to Caroline, but still. I need her to be a little more invovled in Caroline's life and recognize what she was going through. She is a cop after all.

7. Carol Lockwood

Carol is yet another example in the series of a mother allowing their child to face abuse at the hands of their father. Like the other examples, we can't dismiss how difficult it can be for a woman and her child to escape abusive men, especially when they are well connected like Mayor Lockwood was. Carol seemed to be a better mother after the death of her husband. Although her elitism likely contributed to much of Tyler's bad behavior in the early seasons.

Carol gets massive points for never turning on her son even when she finds out he is a werewolf. While Carol doesn't appear to be an overly affectionate mother, she did everything in her power to protect her son with no hesitation. She was definitely in over her head trying to protect the town from the supernatural, it was still clear that her son was her priority. Her last words were trying to protect Tyler.

6. Pearl

The worst thing Pearl did to her daughter was befriending Katherine Pierce which led to them being separated for a century, leaving Anna alone. We don't know much about their long lives, but it is clear Anna and Pearl had a close bond and clearly loved each other very much.

5. Jenna Sommers

Again, Jenna is not biologically a mother, but she does become Jeremy and Elena's legal guardians after their parents die. Jenna is still so young when she takes on this responsibility, balancing school on top of managing two children mourning their parents. Jenna is far from a perfect parent, often letting her emotions cloud her parenting, however, she has a closer bond with her children than most of the parents on this list. She allows them to be messy and imperfect, but makes sure they still feel loved and safe. In her last moments, she spends them trying to protect Elena.

She gets massive points for finding Damon hanging around her teenage niece weird. But does lose some for not actually doing anything about it. Jenna likely would have been even better had they trusted her with the truth. A lot of her struggles was her attempting to make sense of what was happening with only half of the information.

4. Caroline Forbes

Caroline clearly loves her daughters and would do anything for them. If we were only looking at TVD, then she would be right up at the top. But we can't ignore Legacies. While the writers do a better job of implying Caroline is invovled in the twins lives, there are just too many moments that it didn't make sense for her not to be present. She essentially, like so many of the TVDU moms, abandons her daughters due to writing.

I haven't seen Legacies, but even I know that Lizzie dies and becomes a heretic and Caroline doesn't come back for an entire season. While I believe the excuse is that Caroline is seeking a way to end the merge, the twins are still years away from the merge and her daughters needed her. Especially with how neglected they felt with Alaric prioritizing Hope. It's a shame the writers ruined Caroline as a mother because she was clearly dedicated to them when they were little.

3. Freya Mikaelson

While Freya wasn't Hope's mother, she essentially becomes a surrogate parent to her when the rest of the family is forced to separate. Freya is willing to do anything for family and oddly enough that does lose her some points. At times she does allow her determination to keep her family together to put Hope in questionable positions. But it always comes from a place of love. She is also one of the few family members that stays connected with Hope after she loses her family. Freya would do anything for Hope and she proves it by being willing to turn into a vampire and take the Hollow to save her. Even though Freya is a late arrival to the Mikaelson family, she winds up having one of the closest bonds with Hope out of any of them.

She and Keelin also have a child later, so honorable mention to Keelin because, even with zero evidence, I just know Keelin would be such a great mom.

2. Sheila Bennett

We don't know much about Sheila as a mother to Abby, but she took on that role for Bonnie and excelled. Sheila was one of the few adults who was actively invovled. She would do anything for Bonnie, even watching over her from the otherside. Anytime Bonnie needed her, she was there. They had such a special bond and Grams died far too soon. Grams knew just how kind and selfless Bonnie was and attempted to protect her from herself multiple times. But Grams wasn't much different, performing the complex spell, knowing it would likely take all of her energy. If Grams had lived, I just know she wouldn't have allows Bonnie to be taken advantage of the way she often was throughout the series. Sheila Bennett was a force to be reckoned with and no one was allowed to hurt her granddaughter.

Again, extra points for warning Damon to stay away from Bonnie, but she could have held that same energy for Stefan. We needed more mothers protecting their teenagers from being preyed upon by these 100+ year old men.

1. Hayley Marshall

There's no question who the best mother, no best parent, in TVDU is. From the moment Hayley decides to keep Hope, she does everything in her power to make the best life she possible can for Hope. Not only does she protect Hope's physical safety, but she also protects her emotionally and mentally, something that is missing from a lot of the other parents. Hayley will do whatever it takes to protect Hope, even if it is not a popular decision.

She was at a large disadvantage since many of the threats to her child were leagues more powerful than she was, but she never backed down. The amount of enemies she faced off with, knowing she likely didn't stand a chance, all in the name of protecting Hope. She was ready from the beginning to die for Hope and inevitably did.

There is also something to say about the bond they have throughout the show. Hope clearly feels safe and loved by Hayley, even when her life is in complete chaos. I don't think a mother-daughter bond comes close to the trust and love Hayley and Hope have for each other (besides Grams and Bonnie). Hayley had to be killed off in TO, because there is no way Hope would have been able to go through what she did in Legacies if Hayley was around. Hayley got one phone call from Alaric and dropped everything, traveling halfway across the country to bring Hope home. She disciplines Hope, but also talks to her, making sure she understands the deeper reasons for why Hope was acting out. There is nothing Hope could do that would make Hayley hesitate for a second to love and protect her.

I just know if Hayley had heard about a 150 year old vampire (Roman) hanging around her daughter, she would have immediately gotten invovled. She had gone down that path and wasn't about to let Hope get dragged down it as well.

Honorable Mentions:

Jo Laughlin - If Jo had been given the chance, she would have been a great mother. She was a very maternal person and loved the twins so much. Unfortunately it's hard to judge since Kai took that chance away from her. Valerie Tulle - Valerie is another one that I am just assuming she would have done a great job if given the chance to have her child. While she did a lot of questionable things, at the end of the day she was a compassionate person who would have done anything to protect her child. Miranda Gilbert - Miranda seemed like an overall good parent, seeming supportive and compassionate to Elena when she was having issues with Matt. I honestly don't remember how much she knew about the supernatural world or the vampire hunting her husband's family was into, so potentially problematic if they were dragging their family into the supernatural world. However, we don't know much about Elena's mother, but we do know how much she loved her. Hayley's Mother - Again, we don't know much about Hayley's mother, except for the fact that she agreed to her daughter's arranged marriage when she was an infant and that she sacrificed her life to protect Hayley. From what we are told, it seemed like Hayley's parents were on the right side of the war, but it is hard to say. Nadia Petrova - We assume Nadia had a child so she is in the honorable mentions as a mother, but we have zero information on what she was like as a mother. Kai's Mother - I'm just going to assume she was awful. We know Kai grew up not being allowed to touch others, and being isolated. We don't know anything about his mother, so it could be that she had no control over her own life, but considering she is never mentioned, it doesn't seem that her kids have fond memories of her. Tatia - People often forget that Tatia had a child, but she did. We know she took her child and ran to protect them after her husband died in battle, but not much else. There is no mention of what happened to her child after she died. However, she was a mother so she gets an honorable mention.

[andreal831]

Untapped Witches

I'm rewatching season three for my story and one thing that stood out to me is that Freya wanted to channel Finn to save Rebekah from the curse and she says he is the only powerful witch she has. But Finn is back in his vampire state in the necklace. He wasn't in the necklace with Vincent's magic, which is the only time we see him as a witch in the show. Vincent was still alive and had his own magic. So it got me thinking about untapped magic.

I've never really liked the term "untapped witches" because I felt like if Esther knew her kids could tap into magic, she would have encouraged it. But maybe not. Maybe all of the Mikaelsons were truly "untapped witches" and Esther didn't encourage it because she didn't want to attract Dahlia's attention. Or even perhaps because she was afraid of something else, maybe Mikael. Maybe Esther even suppressed their magic when they were little to avoid this. I know Kol was a witch as a human, so maybe he was too powerful or he started showing it early. We aren't told much about their human lives so it's hard to say.

It would make sense for them to all be "untapped witches" as it would give Hope's witch ability more of a solid link. We don't really hear much about witch genes and if it can be recessive. That would be an interesting storyline if a witch was born to parents who don't even know about magic, but I digress.

Basically my question for the show is, did Finn tap into his own magic when he used Vincent's magic? Or did he still have access to Vincent's magic somehow? Or am I missing something completely?

These are all just theories I started thinking about after watching 3x09. I was curious if anyone else had theories about this or if this is once again just an inconsistency in the writing.

[andreal831]

Do you like Rebekah and Hayley's friendship?

I like Rebekah and Hayley's friendship but I do think the fandom overhypes it sometimes because of Phoebe and Claire's friendship.

I think the writers intended for Hayley and Rebekah to be super close, like sisters but when Claire decided to leave the show it fell flat. I have no evidence but I've always believed that they came up with the idea of Freya's storyline simply because Claire Holt decided she couldn't continue as a regular on the show. They needed a sister to even out all the men. So I think the closeness we see from Freya and Hayley in the later seasons was originally meant for Rebekah and Hayley. But with how the show played out, Freya and Hayley or Hayley and Cami end up having closer friendships than Rebekah and Hayley do.

I wish Claire would have stayed, but I also kind of like that she got to be free of everything for a lot of the show. However, because of this, Rebekah and Hayley are more of long distance friends rather than sisters.

We don't even get to see Rebekah's reaction to finding out Hayley's dead. They have minimal reactions after the first half of season 1 and as far as we know don't keep in contact nearly at all while Rebekah is gone. For instance, when Rebekah comes back in season 3, she isn't even aware that Hayley was no longer living in the compound. She was daggered months after Hayley moved out and we saw in the beginning of season 3 that she was keeping in touch with Freya, but not Hayley when Hayley's curse is broken.

The writers constantly did a terrible job developing off screen friendships. And even the ones we get, they always put on the backburner for the romantic relationships. The writers need to learn the importance of platonic relationships.

I love both the characters and I do enjoy their friendship, but I wish it would have been more. They probably don't even rank in my top five friendships on the show simply because we see so little of them actually being friends.

Thanks for the ask!

[andreal831]

Hi! Got here from Tik tok and you really like Elijah.

Just some conversation I wanted to share was how scary I think they made Elijah in the originals. Note that I don’t actually have any attachments to the characters so I might be stating things blantely. Another theory to why I believe the originals is “darker” than TVD.

This is because of Elijah. In TVD- Elijah helped all of his siblings. In the originals his character got a bit retconned.

In the originals, the entire plot-line of Elijah serving klaus was probably a perverted survival of the fittest ideology. Which he then subconsciously re-animate the trauma of not helping Niklaus , because deep down Elijah knows his reason was absolutely terrifying(self preservation).

I say re-animate trauma because Elijah says he too was “beaten without mercy.” So it’s not like he could’ve helped. But he had to convince himself he should’ve even though it wasn’t possible.

If it were possible than I would completely buy into it. But the writers explicitly say it wasn’t possible.

And because of that* he needed to devote himself to Klaus. Which makes sense because it is shown that Elijah is self loathing.( I can bring up examples if you want) And self loathing because he knows his facade is based on self interest and not nobility. They already say he isn’t noble and already pretends to be. And nobility is doing good for others without self interest.

And -I don’t know why but it seems like he pretends to love his siblings. Apparently he got rid of Finn because he wanted to be the oldest and the most respected in that manner. (The writers put this somewhere) . And he did so because … survival of the fittest.

And even Elijah’s actor admitted Elijah’s pretend love for his siblings.

In all honestly I don’t know why Elijah couldn’t love his siblings. The writers kinda just wrote it as such in the originals. -They hinted Elijah didn’t care about Rebecca’s happiness.

In TVD he wanted all his siblings out of the box . In the originals we see Elijah help Klaus out them there.

*saved Klaus from Mikael

BTW

(The entire klaus asking Elijah to run away with him when they were human -I don’t fully understand that,yet took the time to think about it)

Hi love, thanks for following!

Honestly, my biggest response to most of this is: poor writing. I could write a whole novel on this.

The CW is known for prioritizing ratings over the quality of the show and TVDU is no exception.

The Originals was definitely meant to be a darker show. They aged up all of the characters and focused more on the fight for survival rather than the teen romance we see in TVD.

So when I say the writing wasn't good at times, it's because the show let the audience drive it. Klaus was a favorite so they made a whole show around him and his redemption, often sacrificing the characters/development in order to push the narrative they believed would be most popular. So we see things like Kol and Finn's characters getting completely sidelined and Elijah being absolutely obsessed with Klaus when that wasn't the case for all of TVD.

I also like to think the writers intentionally made the Mikaelsons very biased in their storytelling, but it likely was just more inconsistent writing. But to me, it is more important to watch how they behave rather than what they say. Elijah and Klaus have a tendency to tell stories from the perspective of Klaus, discrediting even Elijah's own struggles/trauma.

I also think too much was put on Elijah at a young age. I see a lot of the fandom angry at Elijah for not protecting his brother when it is clear all of the siblings are just as terrified of Mikael as Klaus is. And I also would find it surprising if they all didn't receive some form of physical/emotional abuse from Mikael as children (remember Klaus was initially Mikael's favorite). But, as you said, Elijah and Klaus have convinced themselves that Elijah failed him as a way to shift blame from Klaus onto Elijah. Elijah is very much viewed as the parent of the family despite their parents' existence and even the failures of their parents are somehow blamed on Elijah.

I do think a lot of Elijah's attachment to Klaus was because he felt guilty for not protecting him better as a child. Childhood trauma has a way of sticking with you and can create a lot of negative trauma responses. But, in my head at least, it is also because that is his closest sibling. We see Elijah is born at a time of upheaval and depression in his family and is often neglected by his parents. To me, Klaus was likely the first person Elijah ever felt a bond with, ever felt love for/from.

I also think you are spot on with the self-loathing. People love to say Elijah pretended to be noble. But he never did. Others said that about him and he didn't necessarily correct them. Yet when we hear him talk about himself, he very much views himself as a monster (hence the red door). He is very aware that his entire motivation in life is protecting his family and he will cross any line to do so. He is also aware of how messed up that is. But this is exactly why you often see him as the one to volunteer to do the worst of the worst deeds. He is still attempting to preserve his siblings' redemption and, since he views himself as a lost cause, he continuously sacrifices his chance at redemption to save his family.

Now, where I think the show failed was how Elijah treated the rest of his siblings, especially Rebekah. I don't think he got rid of Finn to be the oldest (he never had an issue with Freya). But I do think he didn't move to save Finn because he resented him. Finn never protected Elijah, rather he often made things more difficult for his siblings. Elijah had to step up because his older brother refused to.

But I still don't buy that Elijah wasn't trying to protect his siblings for a thousand years. We only see about 1% of their life. But from what we can gather, Kol was locked up around 30-40% of the time and Rebekah was daggered for decades at a time. We don't know anything really about Elijah's experience with the dagger, but we know it has been used on him in the past. But like you said, Klaus asked Elijah to run with them when they were kids, but Elijah wouldn't leave the rest of his siblings behind. He prioritized all of his siblings, not just Klaus. So there was this shift in TO where Elijah was all of a sudden prioritizing Klaus over everyone else. They even apply it back to flashbacks, but it really makes no sense for the character we saw in TVD.

I think an aspect of him not protecting his siblings could be fear of Klaus or fear of isolating Klaus. He didn't act until Klaus had pushed him too far. But at the end of the day, it likely is just bad writing in order to prop Klaus up. The writers always wanted Klaus to have his redemption and didn't really care about the other characters. If no one believed in Klaus' redemption or fought for him, it would be harder to get the audience to fight for him. Klaus had to end up being the good sibling that they all loved so they had to sacrifice the one who actually made the most sense for the part.

Basically, in my opinion, Elijah loved his siblings more than anything and would have made any sacrifice for them. We see it through his actions (even if he's not always great at showing it) more so than the words/storytelling. He sacrificed himself countless times for them and would have died for them, not just Klaus. Unfortunately, the show was hell-bent on being centered around Klaus so we lost a lot of good character development.

** Side note, I don't tend to trust anything Daniel (the actor) says about Elijah. He did an amazing job with the acting but he very much did not pay attention to themes or overall storylines