#and while i understand not liking billy and having his racism be one of your driving reasons behind that | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

thewordswewrite · 1 year ago

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Lonely Is Our Lives

Chapter 5 - Love Gun

Pairing | Billy Hargrove x Fem!Reader

!!VERY IMPORTANT A/N!! | I want to preface this by saying I DO NOT condone Billy’s actions throughout the series. I DO NOT condone his violence or abuse, ESPECIALLY against Lucas but also including Max and the others. At the time season two came out in 2017, nearly FIVE years ago at the time I'm writing this, I was very angry and frustrated at the world, resentful of a younger sibling, and disconnected from the people around me so I kind of latched onto Billy as a character and what he represented. I absolutely DID NOT understand what his actions against Lucas truly meant and I DID NOT register it as the racism it was. Knowing what I know now I've decided to write a fic where Billy is able to let go of some of his anger and have someone there to check him and his actions in order to set him on a better path. I wrote this for me as a bit of a redemption fic for both of us.

Playlist | Link | Chapter Four: Songs 17-20

Story Summary | One fateful 1983 night you narrowly escape death on Steve Harrington’s property while Barbara Holland is presumed dead. Left jaded and angry, you carry on towards your senior year in a haze of sex, drugs, and alcohol just to get through the day. But, when Billy Hargrove moves to Hawkins, Indiana during the fall of 1984 things get worse before they get better.

Chapter Summary | Things between you and Billy come to a head as the anniversary of Barb’s death nears, inviting the ghosts of your pasts to get in the way of dictating your futures.

Story Warnings | explicit language, angst, abusive parents, smut 18+ minors DNI, heavy drug and alcohol usage, alcohol/drug abuse, implied physical abuse, injuries

W/C | 5k

Taglist | @youcantbesirius @xronniexo @zzokks @marihoneywk @darlingjae @lem0ns7 @curlycarley

A/N | LISTEN I KNOWWWWW!!! I know this is so ridiculously, idiotically late like by a year but I’ve been in college and had a surgery and my mom had two surgeries and we wrote The Drought of an Ocean and a lot of life things happened but its here and this is it. So PLEASE enjoy! -Smoe<3

Donations | Link

Your feet ached as you stood watching the game before you. Raucous cheers and the stench of sweat filled the air around you as your gaze caught Steve’s on the court. Hawkins was losing and you could tell by the strain on your best friend's forehead that the continuous defeats were taking a toll on him. You’d been talking to Steve more, on and off but it wasn’t the same as it was before the Halloween party. Nancy was never around, typically hanging around Jonathan Byers and Steve had been glued to the kids even more so than normal, leaving you alone.

But you were never really alone with Billy hanging around. The smell of Marlboro’s clung to your jackets and a stray t-shirt that didn’t fit quite right found its home on your bedroom floor. Billy started opening up about his mom and even Max when you were together and the fleeting silences between the two of you had gone from awkward to comfortable.

“Come on, Steve!” You roared to where he stood behind the three point line, ball in hand.

But his confidence wavered and he missed. The team lost the rebound and Billy knocked into Steve, nearly bulldozing him over. Billy’s aggression was nothing new but it irked you to no end when he took it out on Steve.

Lakewood High made their final layup as the buzzer rang around the gym and once again Hawkins Boy’s Basketball took a loss. The gym started clearing out and the basketball teams went to their respective changing rooms leaving you to wait for Steve. The bleachers were empty and you sat at the bottom, flicking your lighter as you stared expectantly at the locker room door.

From inside you could hear the faint sounds of yelling and assumed it had something to do with the result of the game. All teenage boys had a temper but, when you threw Billy Hargrove in the mix, he dialed it up to eleven. Suddenly the door slammed open and Billy stormed out, his nose bloody and eyes wild. Your gaze met his and a tense moment passed before you raised your eyebrows in a well-rehearsed bored question. Billy’s stare sharpened and he clenched his fingers around the strap of his backpack and turned, exiting the gym without so much as a word.

You rolled your eyes at the display and stood when Steve finally exited the locker room sporting a new shiner on his cheek. It didn’t take much to put two and two together so you simply smiled.

You pulled Steve into a quick hug before shoving him, “Guess you finally learned how to punch back.”

“Yeah well, I figured if he’s gonna be sticking around I might as well,” Steve smirked at you.

“He’s not sticking anywhere. I don’t know what you’re talking about,” You defended, crossing your arms over your chest as the two of you began to walk out of the gym to the parking lot. “You played well today,”

“No, I didn’t,” Steve hesitated for a moment. “How are you feeling about the anniversary?”

“Bad.” You deadpanned.

You weren't interested in continuing the conversation so you let your curt response hang in the air. Steve looked uncomfortable and you couldn’t miss the twinge of sadness in his eyes. You ignored the familiar ache in your chest that started and ended with his concern but refused to relent.

“I wish you wouldn’t do that. You could always talk about it,” Steve offered. “To me, or…whoever.” You knew he meant well but you were sick of talking, of thinking about it. As soon as your shoulder stopped aching and you got out of Hawkins, you’d never have to think about it again.

You were sitting in Steve’s passenger seat waiting to be whisked away to a burger and some fries but still he stood in the parking lot staring at you. “I don’t know who you think ‘whoever’ is but I’d appreciate it if you dropped the subject altogether.” You slammed the door closed and sighed.

Steve climbed in his side, throwing his bag to the backseat and turning the keys in the ignition. “Fine. I’ll drop it but if you start getting worse…” He trailed off, backing out of his spot.

“Yeah, yeah, I got it.”

~ ~ ~

The week leading up to the anniversary was rough.

You knew they would’ve been no matter what but compounded by the impending dread you felt, Billy had been noticeably distant and had even started in on Steve over something dumb during gym, resulting in a fist fight that landed them both in detention. You were mad at Billy for getting in a fight with Steve but you were even more angry that he’d completely iced you out.

Before, you wished constantly that Billy would up and leave you alone, regretting your decision to instigate what you did at that damn Halloween party, but his absence left you annoyed. What right did he have to come and go as he pleased?

It shouldn’t matter to you, not at all, but you’d grown comfortable, almost unknowingly reliant on his presence and you were upset. Upset and alone and drunk. It was a Thursday afternoon in early November and you’d been drinking since ten in the morning after you’d tried and failed to fall back asleep. You were sat in front of a mirror in nothing but a thin tank top and shorts, staring at your body and drinking. Damn, you’d become your father.

A watery laugh escaped through your lips as you were sipping from a bottle of vodka, spilling the liquid over yourself. You stared at your reflection then, and looking back was a girl whose eyes were sunken and dull, her hair a mess, tears streaming down her face, and all you could see was your future. This was all you could ever be, after what happened to you nothing was the same and it never would be, you’d been able to accept that. Why couldn’t everyone else just-

A knock sounded from downstairs, but you ignored it. Probably the mail. You took another swig of your bottle when the knock came again, an incessant banging that was working its way behind your eyes, urging on a headache. You grunted as you stood up, bottle still clutched tightly in your hand as you made your way downstairs to the door.

You only had the chance to unlock it before someone was barging their way into the house. Blinking a few times to rid the remaining tears from your eyes, you recognized the intruder.

“What are-what are you doing here?” Your speech sounded slurred and it wasn’t until then you realized how drunk you must’ve been.

“What the fuck happened to you?” Billy’s eyebrows were scrunched as his gaze raked over you, pausing at where your tank top exposed you. “Why aren’t you at school?”

“I could ask you that too,” You walked over to your couch and plopped down. “Skipper.” You heard the familiar gait of Billy’s boots along your hardwood floors and huffed at his persistence.

“I was looking for you.” He deadpanned, staring down at you, though his eyes kept drifting to your shoulder.

You heaved a watery sigh and took another sip of the bottle. “Listen, I’m not exactly in the mood to-” You hiccup, “fuck right now so you can go.” You threw your arm across your face, trying to block out the light that was starting to make your head pound.

You didn’t understand why he was here. It wasn’t as if you were together and even if you were, Billy Hargrove didn’t seem the type to show up at your house just because you missed a day of school. The thought caused the space in the back of your eyes to feel as abused as a pin cushion quickly leading to full blown tears as you tried to hold back sobs.

“I don’t-” Billy stuttered in front of you. “What’s the problem?” You could sense he was closer now, probably crouching next to your head based on his voice.

You couldn’t seem to conjure up an answer though, unable to tell him about the Upside Down or the monster that ruined your life and took another, but the worst part was that it wasn’t even really about that. It wasn’t even that a year ago today Barbara Holland died clawing at your arms and begging for help or that your arm was nearly torn from your body and you were still recovering. No, it was because you lived and no one seemed to care. You were the third wheel to your only friends, who’ve since broken up, and left you for the company of actual children, and your only true family, your father, was never around and when he was, did nothing more than harass you. The only person who saw you on a daily basis had become your fuck-buddy. But you couldn’t even begin to explain all that.

“I’m ugly.”

“What?” Billy questioned, his previously almost gentle voice turned sharp.

“Go away. I don’t want you here,” You pleaded, looking at him through tears in your eyes.

“You’re acting like this cause of some scar?” He seemed incredulous, almost inspecting you with his eyes. “That's it?” He let out a sardonic laugh and you began to fume.

“‘That's it?’” you parroted. “Look at me! I almost died, Barb did! Barb did and I couldn’t save her…” You had started out screaming but your voice died out as memories flashed in your head.

Billy’s face was clouded as he took the bottle you were still clutching in your hand and set it aside. Your eyes were unfocused as they tracked him moving around the room, picking through blankets until he found the one he knew was your favorite and tossed it to you. He took a heavy seat next to you, bouncing a bit when he did, and hesitantly inched his leg towards you until your thighs touched. You were tired, too tired to continue to try to fight him so you let it all happen and spread the blanket across yourself, the plush fabric soft between your fingers.

Your eyes were drooping now that the adrenaline was out of your system and you couldn't help but let your head lull onto the warmth of Billy’s shoulder as your eyes fluttered shut. You weren’t sure how long the two of you sat there in silence, but you faintly registered the synchronized rise and fall of your chests.

“What happened to you?” Billy’s voice broke the peace, but you’d very nearly dozed off and decided to let him think you had. “I know you’re not sleeping.”

A sigh involuntarily slipped past your lips and you were officially caught. Through your drunken, exhaustion-induced haze, you tried to explain. “Last year, I was invited to Steve’s house to hang out with some friends,” you started. “And there was an…attack,” you felt yourself getting worked up and removed yourself from Billy, immediately missing the heat he provided. “Tommy and Carol had gone to fuck and Steve finally got Nancy up to his room so it was only Barb and me left,” You sniffed deciding to choose your next words carefully. “I was…different back then. I was ‘King Steve’s’ friend, and we didn’t associate with people like Barb, but Nancy did so we let her tag along.”

“‘King Steve’ huh?” Billy mocked, slinging his arm across the back of the couch, deliberately not touching you.

“We were all different back then,” You sighed. “Barb cut her hand trying to shotgun a beer and they told us that's what attracted the–the bear.”

“And that’s what did this?” He asked, his finger dancing above your scar, not daring to touch you.

You nodded, rubbing at your eyes with little care. “I tried to help but it took her and did this.”

“Where was ‘King Steve’ during all this?” Billy’s voice was that of thinly veiled annoyance which sparked your own.

“In his room with Nancy, but it wasn’t their fault,” You were quick to insist. “So, Barb died and I screamed and bled out until someone heard me. The end.”

You were thoroughly done with the conversation and grabbed the remote, switching on the TV to make your point. You wished you didn’t when scenes of The Evil Dead started playing and you shivered, causing Billy to finally slide his arm from the back of the couch to your shoulders, and gently, as if in question, pulled you to him.

“You’re not ugly.”

~ ~ ~

“Fuck!” You awoke all at once, neither slowly nor calmly, not to the steady thrum of Billy’s heartbeat but by said boy ripping himself off the couch.

Blearily, you stretched, glancing at the clock on the wall all the while trying to stomp down the urge to throw up. You watched as Billy tried to hastily tie his shoes but his fingers were clumsy giving you a childish sort of pleasure at his failure.

“I fell asleep.” It was the only thing you could think to say after all that happened the night before and embarrassment flushed your cheeks. You’d admitted to him nothing that everyone else in the town didn’t already know but you’d been drunk and cried, and for some reason let Billy sit on your couch through it all.

“I need to leave. Before my–I just need to leave,” He was quick to get the words out but you caught his stumble.

“Before your what?”

Billy paused, looking at you through his curls before going back to his task. “Don’t worry about it, I just need to leave.”

“Is it the same reason you’re beat up all the time?” You asked, trying to sound nonchalant. It shouldn't matter to you what goes on behind the closed doors of the Hargrove home but somehow in the few weeks you’d known him, Billy had wormed himself into the select group of people you cared about.

“Drop it.”

Billy stormed out of your house, the door slamming shut behind him and rattling the walls. It was coming up on six-thirty and you needed to get ready for school, despite your hangover; if your father got wind that you’d been skipping while he was away, you’d have hell to pay.

By the time you were rolling into Hawkins High’s parking lot, your headache had dulled and you were itching to see Billy. It was an uncomfortable feeling you were taking in stride, having decided to accept where this boy fit into your life. A spot was left open for you next to the familiar blue Camaro and, with ease, you pulled in before quickly exiting your vehicle and plopping yourself down in Billy’s passenger seat.

“I see you’re doing just fine,” You take his face in your hand, turning his head left and right, inspecting for injuries. Billy let you do this for no more than three full seconds before slapping your hand off him.

“He wasn’t home.” It seemed to be the only explanation you were going to get if the obstinate look on Billy’s face, compounded by the way he was digging around in his center console for his smokes, was any indication.

“That’s a good thing though, no?” You asked, offering one of your own cigarettes with one hand while smoking one with the other. Billy looked up briefly and scrunched his nose in refusal before going back to his search. “I thought you liked these.”

He shrugged. “I like how they smell. I hate the taste.”

“You’ve never even smoked one before,” You retorted.

Finally Billy pulled out his Reds, shaking them before plucking one from the pack and placing it between his lips. “You have though, and more often than not, baby, my mouth’s on yours.”

“Then why haven’t you said–that’s not the point here actually,” You huffed at both his admission and the fact you’d gotten so off topic. “Isn’t it a good thing he wasn't home? Time to cool off?”

Billy laughed, hollow and short, at the question. “It’ve been better just to get it over with this morning.”

Distantly behind you, the five-minute bell rang, ending your morning ritual and effectively cutting off your conversation. Billy swiftly exited his car, locking it as your own door slammed shut after you, and, as you walked together to the school’s entrance, a leather clad arm found its way around your waist. You debated shrugging him off but in spite of yourself, you let him–by all intents and purposes–stake his claim.

You caught Steve looking at you from his locker as you walked in so, dangerously, you veered yourself, and by proxy Billy, towards him.

“Stevie,” You greet him, a warning in your eyes. “You guys ready for the game tonight?” Glancing up you could see Billy staring down your best friend and you struggled to suppress a sigh.

“As ready as I can be,” Steve's eyes slid from yours to Billy’s and you tensed up, waiting for a confrontation to break out.

You couldn’t say if Billy noticed your worry or if he was already bored with the conversation but you were relieved when he simply tightened his hold on your waist for a second before letting go entirely. The moment was short lived when Billy suddenly clapped Steve on the shoulder, his fingers obviously digging into the flesh of Steve’s shoulder.

“Going for a win tonight, huh, Stevie?” The tone Billy used was nothing but mocking and before you could stop him, he dropped his hand and pushed past Steve, knocking shoulders with the other boy.

Steve wasted no time gaping at you in betrayal. “You’re with him now?”

“It just happened. He…showed up yesterday and stayed the night.” A disappointed sigh escaped your lips as you rubbed your forehead. “It was bad. I was drunk and disgusting and I told him the safe version of what happened and he stayed.”

Steve’s eyes were wide with disbelief as he floundered for words, “I’m sorry I wasn’t there but…I guess I’m glad he was.”

Billy wasn’t what you expected, or more so he was exactly what you expected but undercut with something you never would have guessed he was capable of. He’d been there for you on, no doubt, one of the hardest days of your life, so you decided he deserved some credit. He also deserved someone to be there for him.

“Yeah, me too.”

~ ~ ~

You needed to talk to him. The entire basketball game Billy had played like a man possessed, flattening every player in his path, whether on the opposite team or otherwise. Somehow, Billy’s playing and the uneasy truce between him and Steve had led the team to a much needed victory. During the game, you noticed a sullen looking Max, who you found out from Steve, had been sucked into the whole Upside Down situation by the boys. Subtly, you made your way over to her after the game had ended and the team left for the locker room.

“Hey, red,” You called her attention, “Stevie told me you’re caught up?”

Her eyebrows furrowed for a moment and you were struck by how similar she looked to Billy despite not being blood. Her face cleared when she seemed to realize what your words meant and immediately looked uneasy. Her eyes shot to your concealed shoulder and you felt yourself deflate a bit.

“Yeah, him and the stalkers told me everything. Does–does Billy know?”

You’re caught off guard by the question but immediately shake your head. “No, I told him what everyone else thinks happened: bear attack.” You sigh at the idea of him going home to his father tonight. “Are you getting a ride home from your brother?”

Her face morphed into disgust at the word ‘brother’ but she nodded. “I didn’t want to walk in the rain.”

“Do you think Steve could give you a ride home instead?” You asked, hopeful. Once again disgust marred her face but you were quick to rectify. “I just need to talk to him, about maybe getting…help.” You gestured to your face, circling it with your finger.

Understanding lit up her face and she nodded hastily. “I can get a ride with Steve.”

“Great.”

The two of you stood together awkwardly though it wasn’t long before Steve reappeared from the locker room and despite being confused by the request, walked outside with the red-head in tow. Billy on the other hand took his time, likely exhausted after the way he played, leaving you the last person left in the gym. His eyes first landed on you but searched the gym once he noted your presence.

You prepared yourself for the anger that was likely to follow your admission and spoke. “I sent her home with Steve.”

“You what?”

“Relax. He’s been watching the kids all year and I wanted to talk to you,” You hoped he would listen to you rather than storm out, leaving you feeling stupid for trying.

He huffed but seemed to calm down quickly, walking over to you slowly. “Fine. It's not like it’ll matter how late I am at this point.”

You sincerely hoped that was true when you held out your hand, by far the most domestic thing you’ve ever offered him. Tentatively, he took it and the two of you strode outside to your cars but rather than walk around to the passenger side you stopped in front of the driver’s and raised your eyebrows expectantly.

“Please?” Billy looked ready to protest but immediately deflated at your plea and tossed you the keys over the hood.

The car thrummed under your touch as you started the ignition and you suddenly understood why Billy loved it so much. Without any sort of exchange, you drove to the Quarry, knowing from experience the overlook was a place that offered some sort of reprieve. With the car parked and Billy looking at you expectantly, you figured you needed to tell him why you were out here.

“I need a cigarette for this,” You cringed when you realized you’d left your pack in your car and dragged your eyes over to the unamused boy in the passenger seat. “Can I bum one?”

Billy rolled his eyes and popped the glove compartment, tossing you an unopened carton of Djarum Specials. “Here.”

“Thanks,” You smiled to yourself as you opened the pack and lit yourself a cigarette, relishing in the dull buzz. You only had a moment of happiness before you steeled yourself and prepared for immediate rejection. “I think you need to talk to Hopper.”

Billy went rigid, all movement halting to instead look at you. “The police chief?”

You ignored his tone and soldiered on. “I don’t want you accidentally falling asleep at my house to land you in the hospital.”

“I can’t do that,” Billy had grabbed your wrist and was desperately searching your eyes. “You can’t do that. You have to promise me.”

“Billy, I–” You started to refuse but he cut you off.

“Nothing will change, he’ll just pack us up again and I’ll end up in some other hick town.” He reached to snatch the keys from the ignition but you pulled them out yourself and held them away.

“Again?” You urged him to continue.

Billy’s eyes were wild, like an animal cornered. “Back in California, someone snitched and I ended up here.”

“But you said…” Max, you realized, thinking back on your conversation outside the record shop. “That’s why you’re so horrible to her?”

“If she would’ve just kept her mouth shut we both would’ve been fine. Now…” He trailed off obviously revealing more than he planned.

You felt your heart pounding in your chest, the rhythm muffling your thoughts as you stared at Billy. She already didn’t want him in that house but now Max was just another innocent bound to be corrupted by the hands of Mr. Hargrove.

“You have to know this isn’t okay,” You pleaded.

“You think I don’t?” He had let go of you some time ago and was now running a ragged hand through his hair. “It won’t work. I just have to deal with it for another year then I’m gone.”

“And after that? What about Max?”

“He won’t touch her.” Billy’s eyes were sharp and you noticed he’d broken out in a sweat. “A roughed up boy with a shit attitude doesn’t draw an eye but a black and blue little girl? They’d be all over him in a second.”

You couldn’t help but shake your head, insisting on your plan. “You don’t get it. I can help you. Hopper ’ll listen and trust me when I say he will do something about it.”

Billy’s usual fire was snuffed and he was reduced to nothing more than a teenage boy asking a girl a question. “Why do you even care?”

You couldn't help but laugh at the question, a sarcastic smile gracing your lips. “Because you started hanging around after sex, and held me when I was drunk crying about a stupid anniversary–”

Billy tried to stop you there. “It’s not stupid, you–”

“And because you bought me these!” You help up the box of cigarettes now full on laughing at the same boy who’d told you he didn’t date only three weeks ago. “You wouldn’t leave me alone so now I can’t leave you alone. I won’t.” By the end of your rant you’d quieted down coming to terms in the process with just how much you truly cared about Billy Hargrove.

Billy’s hands found your face, cradling it with a care he’d never shown before and guided your mouth to his. The kiss was nothing like your others, instead he kissed you slow and deep, relishing in the taste of you.

You were panting by the time he finally broke the kiss and you truly smiled at him, “I thought you didn’t like clove.”

“I don’t. But I like you,” He kissed you again. “A lot.”

A giggle nearly bubbled out of you but you contained yourself and realized for the first time in over a year you didn’t feel like the weight on your shoulder was quite so heavy. You smiled at him once more before climbing out of your seat and into the back, Billy following close behind.

Billy’s shirt was quickly discarded and with it he slowly reached for yours, his fingers playing at the hem, waiting for your permission. Confidently you nodded, trusting him. His eyes raked over your body once your shirt was gone, left in nothing but a bra that was made quick work of by Billy’s deft hand.

“You’re perfect.” He praised, taking your chest into one of his hands and cradling your back with the other. The compliment made your body warm, but the remnants of doubt still clawed at your insides.

It was deja vu when you began removing Billy’s belt and he your jeans, there the both of you were once again in the back of his car. It wasn’t long before the two of you were bare before each other, the sight a familiar one to you but to Billy seemingly an entirely new experience. Billy’s mouth found its way down your neck, sucking and kissing along the way until he reached your boobs. He made sure to pay them special attention, but you supposed it was the first he’s seen of them.

“Billy, please,” You couldn’t help but whine, the anticipation making you ache.

He shushed you with a searing kiss and pulled a condom from his dash. “I’ve got you, baby,” He ripped it open with his teeth and slid it on himself slowly. “I’ve got you.”

Your underwear were nothing special: black cotton, simple cut, but Billy slipped his fingers in them like they were the most delicate lace. He shimmied them down your legs, not stopping until he had them bunched in his hand and finally stuffed inside the pocket of his jeans.

“For later.” He winked.

You chuckled at the comment until you felt the head of his cock at your entrance and you were once again kissed quiet. Slowly, inch by inch, Billy pushed in until he bottomed out and the two of you moaned in unison. It was cold outside, the early November night causing a chill to bite in the air, but inside the car was steaming. Billy began moving his hips, easily finding a rhythm in both his thrusts and his fingers circling your clit. You had nothing to do with your hands other than hang on, trying to find respite to the building tension in your core.

Your skin was hot as Billy picked up his pace however still taking great attention to your body as he chased his own orgasm. This felt different than all the other times the two of you had sex. You felt desired, wanted, claimed. You never thought you’d give yourself to someone so wholly, especially after the attack, but now you didn’t think you could want anything more.

“Ask me,” You whimpered. “Ask me to be yours.”

You had a moment of panic when he didn’t immediately respond, a stutter of his hips drawing an anxious breath into your chest. Billy simply looked down at you, his ocean blue eyes staring into yours as he asked.

“Be mine.”

You smiled and kissed him, your tongues lacing together as your hips met his, over and over getting closer by the second. The combination of his words and his fingers drove you quickly to climax, a broken moan echoing in the car as Billy continued to thrust until he met his own climax, and collapsed down onto you. The Quarry was silent barring your heavy breaths and slight shifting every few minutes in order to get comfortable.

As you laid there, Billy’s form grounding you to the earth, you felt your eyes well up with tears. Unlike every time before, this was not because of sadness, but instead because you were happy. You all but laughed at the realization that a boy from California you just happened to meet at a Halloween party managed to make you feel like everything was going to be okay. Tomorrow might be filled with uncertainties, and you didn’t know what Hawkins Indiana had in store for you. Knowing both you and Billy had a rough road ahead was a heart clenching thought but now, in this moment, you had each other and that was enough. Enough to know that things will get better.

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booksandabeer · 2 years ago

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Daisy Jones & The Six - First impressions

I'm still sick in bed, so I just watched the first three episodes of Daisy Jones & The Six in one go. I'm also cranky and tired and bored, so here have some unfiltered opinions.

Overall, it's a fun watch, very entertaining, beautifully filmed with great production design and set dressing, some intriguing performances (Camila Morrone, who would've thought?), and way-better-than-expected original music. It's also a very safe show. Now, I haven't read the book, so I don't know if the show merely works with what's on the page or if they toned things down considerably, but everything here seems so carefully designed to not offend anyone. Every once in a while the show will gesture towards issues like drug abuse/addiction, racism, or the absolutely rampant sexism and misogyny of the Rock'n'Roll & Groupie culture of the era, but every time they're getting close to actually saying something about it, they back down again.

The thing is, I can't even really focus on the actual contents of the show because I'm so hung up on some of the visual aspects of it (also I'm on a lot of antibiotics and pain medication right now, so you know, please feel free to disregard anything I'm saying here). I said this back when I saw the first teaser for this, and having watched three episodes now, I maintain that everybody here looks too clean, too healthy, too put together--especially for people who are supposed to be drunk/high 24/7--and everybody's teeth and hair are just way too nice. Well, except for when they put certain actors in wigs... and then it's even worse. Like, really Amazon? ALL that money and you couldn't find Timothy Olyphant a wig that doesn't look like glued-together shavings of an old Chewbacca costume?

Also, and I'm very sorry but it needs to be said, Sam Claflin is all kinds of wrong for the role of Billy and should've never been cast in it. For one thing, he's visibly too old for the part; at one point, he's supposed to be around 21 years old, I think? Sam Claflin is a very handsome man, but he cannot pass as a guy that only *just* left his teenage years behind. And that's not on him. I like Claflin and I don't fault him for wanting to take this part (which actor wouldn't?), but I don't understand how seemingly no one with any pull in this multi-million dollar production looked at that casting choice and said "Uhm, guys? Maybe we should reconsider?" There are other problems with the performance, but I'm not here to bash one actor, especially one that I've generally enjoyed watching in other parts.

However, I think the even bigger problem is that I don't get the character of Billy at all, or more specifically, why everyone thinks that this guy of all people is some sort of hypermagnetic, genius Jim Morrison/Lindsey Buckingham hybrid? Because what I've seen so far looks more like a moderately ambitious, moderately talented guy who's simply in over his head and doesn't really care either way whether he makes it as a big Rock'n'Roll Star or not. Where's the drive? Where's the fire? I don't see it, which is kind of a problem when your whole show hinges on your two main characters being charisma machines that the audience is supposed to be absolutely enthralled by.

I would be really interested to know what people who have read the book think of this adaptation. Is it successful and true to the text? Am I'm just wildly off the mark here? Is it good, bad, or just okay? And most importantly, should I read this book?

Ok, going back to sleep now.

#daisy jones & the six #daisy jones and the six #tv ramblings #sorry forgot the 'keep reading' thing at first. there are no spoilers here but still

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oldmanlenz · 1 year ago

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{ 18+ indie. RP blog mainly centered around an elderly Billy┃semi-selective (no minors, please.)┃sporadic activity (replies will be slow!) ┃Penned by mun Klaue┃multi-muse/verse/ship RP blog: viciouslyfilthy (READ THE RULES BEFORE INTERACTING.)┃I follow back from my main: burgerrat! }

RULES + FAQ BELOW.

GUIDELINES:

While I am still unsure of what route to take this blog towards, since I made it in the first place for my own comfort, for now I would prefer to keep it's audience as 18+ only, as the blog touches on heavy subjects and adult topics. If you're underage I kindly ask that you do not interact. Otherwise, you will be blocked.

I will allow non-RP blogs to send asks and follow me on this blog but you are not allowed to spam likes on my posts or start a RP thread with my muse. Please respect that.

Usual blacklisted things: racism, p//dophilia, inc//st, pro-ship, antisemism, pro-life/anti-abortion, homophobia, transphobia or any LGBTQ+phobia of any kind will not be tolerated and you will be blocked on the spot.

Any form of infantilization/demonization/belittling/romanticization of //ssault or any other type of physical abuse, s//lf h//rm, or any mental condition will not be tolerated, which will also result in an instant block.

This blog involves an ocxcanon ship, if you're bothered by that because you think it's 'cringe' or other reasons of your own, I invite you to unfollow and/or block.

FAQ:

1. WHAT IS THIS INTERPRETATION OF THE CHARACTER?

This is an older/senior interpretation of the slasher character Billy Lenz from Black Christmas 1974! It is mainly based off of the audio commentary of the movie where Nick Mancuso reprises his role as Billy years later.

This interpretation of Billy has been institutionalized, and he has successfully made a positive recovery (enough to at least be able to be allowed out in the world again and become a functioning memeber of society.) He is currently an eccentric elderly man who works at a theatre, lives in some neighborhood forgotten by the world in Toronto, with his 2-3 cats and his partner.

Despite having been treated and being on medication, he still has a tendency to sometimes go out of his way to break into other people's attics and either steal food from them or people-watch in the creepiest way possible, or make one or two weird prank calls just for a reaction. Not enough for someone to have a reason to report to the police, but enough for him to find it entertaining. His habit of making calls and entering others' attics specifically is now less of a disturbed impulse to re-live his past and more of a ritual he feels compelled to do from time to time, kind of like an odd holiday tradition. Thankfully, he often just stays in his own attic when he feels this urge, mainly because of two reasons: his sundowning syndrome, and side effects caused by some of his medication.

2. WHAT TIMELINE IS THIS UNIVERSE TAKING PLACE IN?

The timeline of this universe takes place 20 years after the original events of the movie. This interpretation of the Moaner lives in the early 90's, more specifically, 1994. He is currently 59 years old (pushing 60).

Just something to keep in mind if you'll reference modern things or pieces of media in asks, as my muse likely won't understand them because timeline-wise it doesn't exist yet.

3. WHO ARE THE OTHER CHARACTERS LISTED?

(OC RAMBLING BEWARE!)

They are OCs of mine! We have Elis and his headmates: Jessica, Max, Benedict and Conductor (this character has DID/OSDD, just for clarification); and one other side character oc that may not be very present since I'm still unsure of what to do with him, but he plays a part in Elis' backstory so... I've decided to include him here for now: Gabriel.

Elis is Billy's partner! They ended up in the same mental insitution and after being released they decided to live together. He's awfully introverted but he is just as eccentric once you get to know him and his obsession for insects- specifically centipedes.

Jessica is Elis' closest friend, a wannabe singer and actress. She sees Billy as a friend, although she envies how much better his acting skills are compared to hers.

Maxwell is a grouchy old man and a fragmented recreation of Elis' late abusive father. He dislikes basically anything that isn't reading, and practically just wants to be left alone. Billy makes him umcomfortable (much to his sadness) therefore he tends to avoid him.

Benedict is- well, also an old man but he's more of a happy-go-lucky kind of guy. He's sort of like a happy ragdoll- whatever you do to him he just lets it happen. Kind of like those kitten videos. He views Billy the same way Elis does- a partner. Although he's noticeably awkward when it comes to show displays of affection because he's not used to how 'feral' Billy's personality is.

Finally, we have the Conductor. He's a kid that LOVES trains of all kinds. Daydreams of being a train conductor of his own toy trains somehow (and real trains). He's a menace to toystores that have functioning toy trains for sale. (He's almost verbatim based off of the song 'My Trains' by Lemon Demon). He doesn't tend to interact with Billy or anyone else that isn't Jessica, he finds her at least fun to interact with and talk about his trains. Everyone else he labels 'too boring' or 'too weird'.

The last one to be named would be Gabriel. He's a whole other separate character that has nothing to do with Elis or Billy's story. Like I aaid earlier, I want to experiment with the guy on this blog and see if I like having him here since he does take part in Elis' story. An average cat lover and a peculiar painter who's always looking for new muses to make into pieces of art (quite literally, he kidnaps his victims and turns them into grotesque pieces of 'art'), and eventually (backstory-wise) his eyes fall on Elis.

4. WHAT BECAME OF AGNES?

Agnes is alive and far away from her brother in this universe. She has successfully fled from Billy back when he first snapped and locked her in their parents' basement.

She grew up in an orphanage, and eventually when she became an adult she went to live on her own; now she works at a lonely coffee shop that really only has two frequent customers, one of which she has developed an interest for.

5. WHY ARE BARB AND JESS INCLUDED?

In this universe, Barb has survived Billy's attack! It has caused some cardiac issues, but ultimately she survived. She and Jess obviously still have contact, and more often than not Jess checks up on her friend, as she feels this odd sense of responsibility over Barb's well-being after the murders that shook both of them up all those years back. They tend to meet and chat at a particular coffee place they both enjoy.

While these two are mostly just meant to be side characters that might pop up from time to time, I am indeed interested in writing them, fleshing out and exploring their characters more!

#distinguishable christmas night ( blog info/taglist )

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randomness-is-queen · 1 year ago

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Ok, so I don’t normally interact with these kind of posts but this one just… hit different. I’m not 100% sure why. Maybe it’s that last line; as though to Stan Lucas we have to hate Billy. Or maybe the one before that. Either way it got to me so buckle up people, it’s time for a rant and possibly some trauma dumping.

Billy is an abuse survivor. That much was made clear, and apparently this person knows that. And yet here they are claiming it to simply be a sad backstory and that that’s the only reason anyone supports him as a character. (I won’t even get into the attractiveness issue because that just opens up a whole other can of worms.) Anyway, back to the abuse thing.

We’ve seen how Neil is with him, and how he acts around other adults. Notice I said adults, because he’s completely different with kids his own age younger. Remember the whole Karen Wheeler situation? And how Susan acts in the background when Neil is ‘disciplining’ Billy? I sincerely doubt that that boy has had a positive adult role model in his life since his mother. He may know it’s wrong but that doesn’t mean that he hasn’t internalised that response. If the adults in his life never showed appropriate emotional maturity, how can he?

You grow up in a household where you get hurt for the slightest thing, your fight/flight/freeze response is on high alert. He’s going to be the bigger threat, make sure nobody can hurt him by hurting them first, or making sure they respect him enough not to even try (remind you of anything Neil might have said there). He may know that the hitting isn’t normal, but he never actually hits Lucas, just threatens him. Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that it’s right, it’s not. Just that it’s logical for him not to know appropriate boundaries. I freeze when confronted with my trauma, just completely shut down. We all respond in different ways, and he’s still in the thick of it.

Not only is Billy an abuse survivor, he’s a child. A literal 17 year-old child. Do not try and argue that 17 isn’t still a child, it’s child enough. He’s been living with an abusive father for his whole life, who knows what nonsense Neil spouts on a daily basis. So Billy’s racism towards Lucas? Totally understandable. Again, not saying it’s right, just that Billy , who was raised in a toxic and most likely racist household, would absorb that way of thinking. Have you ever heard someone say that if you ever want to know where parents stand on a matter you should ask the children what they think? I have experience experience with this myself. I grew up in a homophobic household, and it was only stepping outside of that environment that helped me change my viewpoint, and Billy doesn’t have that. I’ll admit that I’ve read a few fics where Billy himself didn’t actually care but knew Neil would so was trying to protect Max by telling her to stay away from Lucas. While I like the concept I don’t think it’s true, he was being racist, it was problematic, and he should face the consequences of that. But not to the point were his character gets killed off.

before stranger things 4 comes out, i just wanna let you all know that i do not give a flying fat fuck about billy and we should just let him stay dead.

nobody cares that the racist/abusive mediocre white boy is attractive to you, we don't have to do the most to defend him.

sad backstory does not equal someone being a good person/worthy of praise.

anyway, stan lucas

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dopeasspancake · 3 years ago

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Billy antis will cite dialogue that was scrapped from the script so they can call him racist but don’t keep that same energy about Steve’s original plot line to literally SA Nancy. If it didn’t make it into the show or any other official media, then it’s not canon. Like I thought that was rule number 1???

Billy’s “a certain type of people you stay away from” line is always automatically assumed racist, in part because of said scrapped line. But if we line this up in the context of his childhood, then why are we not allowed to assume he simply means boys/men/people who yell at/upset/hurt you? He saw enough of that growing up and now within the first week in this new town he sees Max near tears after visibly arguing with a boy.

If it’s not this excuse then it’s “well he attacked Steve for no reason.” Like excuse me, Billy has barely known of Steve for like 4 days, then finds his sister being hidden in a creepy house in the woods and an 18 year old boy is trying to lie to him and tell him she’s not there. Billy has zero context to the situation so has no idea why Steve would lie unless something Not Right was going on. If you were their age and that was your little sister, what would you think? Yeah, if I thought an 18yo was trying to prey on my 13yo sibling I’d be throwing hands too.

If you want to hate him that’s your right, but y’all do some weird mental gymnastics to try to justify it.**

Makes me hope twice as hard that Billy shows up in S4 just to spite the antis who apparently really hate characters with actual dimension to them.

EDIT FOR CLARIFICATION:

I am NOT saying that it’s impossible Billy was being racist. I’m just saying that it’s not the ONLY way to read it. It wouldn’t be the first time characters in a movie/show/book were written to intentionally make you think ill of their intentions only to find out the creators purposely wanted viewers/readers to misinterpret actions because it allowed for a plot twist later.

** mental gymnastics refers to the antis who specifically cite the cut dialogue to “confirm” Billy is racist but ignore that this line of thought would also “confirm” Steve is okay with committing SA.

And at the end of the day, part of what makes a character interesting is them not being perfect, and then learning to overcome that. Billy clearly was not raised well or by loving parents. For a long time, he only knew what he was taught (by his father). He was still only a teenager in S3. In the 80s racism/sexism/etc were not the open topics that they are today unfortunately. Today kids know better much younger, but these issues weren’t so freely talked about back then.

Now does any of that make it okay to be racist? No. But are we allowed to believe that it’s not 100% a fact that Billy was racist? Or that if he was, he (ideally) would have had plenty of time to learn and grow and change his ways? Yes.

Antis: don’t pretend you’ve never found a villain to be one of your favorite characters. Plenty of beloved heroes and anti-heroes in media started out as straight up villains. But does that mean everyone who loves those characters are okay with murder and all the other bad things that character did prior? Absolutely not.

Loving a character while acknowledging their flaws doesn’t make the people who love that character a supporter of racism or abuse or any of their other bad traits. It just means we understand that young people have a lot of potential to learn from mistakes and grow. It’s called character development.

#stranger things #billy hargrove #max mayfield #lucas sinclair #steve harrington #stranger things 2 #stranger things season 4 #stranger things 4

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therealvinelle · 3 years ago

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How would twilight have been different if Bella were another race?

Interesting one.

Minor disclaimer before we go anywhere, I’m a white woman so take that into account.

I think first of all this would depend on which race Bella was.

Per the 2010 census in Forks, Washington, 67% of the population was White, 0.5% African American, 6.6% were Native Americans, 1.2% Asians, and 18% other races and 5.9% were mixed race. Hispanic ethnicities accounted for 25.9% of the population. (Source.)

Based off of that, while your average Forks denizen is White, if we’re changing Charlie’s race he would be most likely to be Hispanic or Native American.

Renée is from Downey, California, which as of the 2010 census had 56.6% Whites (17% non-Hispanic whites), 7% Asians, 3.9% African Americans, 0.2% Native Americans, 27.6% other races, and 4.1% mixed race. Hispanic ethnicities accounted for 70.7% of the population. (Source.)

Based off of that, if we’re changing Renée’s race she would most likely be Hispanic, Asian, or African American.

Then there are other factors to take into account - Charlie made sheriff in a small, pre-dominantly white and Republican town at some point before 2005. Rather than ask if he could have done that as another race, which will be yes because anything is possible, Obama made President, I’ll ask if racebent Charlie would have. And if so, would this have affected his outlook on life, and would that in turn have impacted Bella?

There’s the obvious route of racebending Charlie so he is a Quileute living out of reservation. It’s not a stretch at all, there’s a Swan somewhere on one of the Quileute family trees Meyer released, and it would serve the plot very directly in that Bella’s choice to become a vampire would have the added dimension that she was betraying her family. It would add to Billy’s fight to save Bella from her own terrible decision-making, too.

Renée, though, she can be racebent with little change to her life or character. There’s her decision to leave Forks, which would have added weight if she experienced racism there and Charlie simply wasn’t getting it, that would be a factor which might in turn affect Bella, except the whole thing about Renée is she breezes through life with everybody loving her, and she doesn’t understand her daughter at all. If her and Bella can connect over something like this, we’re making Renée and their dynamic fundamentally different. Still, if we’re racebending Renée I’d go for Hispanic or Asian, since that’s what’s most statistically likely for her.

Now, to answer your actual question.

The first thing that comes to mind in terms of how being racebent might affect Bella is that it would exarcerbate her social anxiety coming to Forks at the beginning of Twilight. She’s not only the new kid, she’s the non-white new kid in a very white town. She’ll see Forks as not only small town but small white town.

If I were racebending her I would make her mixed Race, with Charlie the non-white parent, and Renée the white one, because it’s a reoccurring theme with Bella and her parents that Charlie always got her, she’s Charlie 2.0 in every way that counts, while Renée is a different person in every way. Race would be another level on which she connected with Charlie, and not Renée.

From there...

When it comes to the Cullens, yes I do think their response to her might change with race. Rosalie, for instance, sees the life she could have had in white girl Bella. I’m not sure she would if Bella was a different race. I also don’t think Edward would view Bella as frail and the epitome of delicate feminine beauty if she was African American.

Emmett would make insensitive jokes. Good god the insensitive jokes. It would be awful.

Alice would still enjoy dressup because human is human, and Esme would still enjoy mothering. Jasper would still avoid Bella so as not to eat her, and Carlisle would be decent to her because by all accounts he’s a decent person.

#long post #bella swan #charlie swan #renée dwyer #tw racism #racism cw #edward cullen #esme cullen #rosalie hale #jasper hale #alice cullen #emmett cullen #carlisle cullen #demographics #twilight #twilight meta #twilight renaissance #twilight racebend

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fizzigigsimmer · 2 years ago

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Stop screaming HE WAS RACIST at me like that’s the magic phrase that makes a character off limits. That is not how fiction works. I’ve enjoyed nazis, colonizers, and literal flesh eating monsters as characters before this. You’ve enjoyed amoral fiction before too. I promise you. Did you enjoy The Greatest Showman? When you learned the real history did you delete the soundtrack and start haunting the tags to get people to stop enjoying this white washed fairytale? Are you shit posting and trolling the comments of little girls bopping to This Is Me? Worse, did you root for Zac E’s character to end up with Zendaya’s character thinking he was ‘the good one’ without even registering that he’s as racist as his parents and the society he lives in? If you need that unpacked for you you’re already too short for the ride. For those who are thinking it: no, sexual and romantic attraction to black peoples is not a cure for racism or evidence of the absence of racisim. That is all.

Racist people and racist characters are everywhere. Acknowledging that is not the same as condoning it. But having acknowledged it, please explain why the fuck exactly you think the audience isn’t allowed to feel for or want anything positive out of a character who is essentially a kid with the same moral flaws as people they have to live next to and go to work with in the morning? Explain the big moral crisis to me. Use your brain cells. People liking a fictional character is not the same as condoning their flaws. I’m not out here eating flesh, murdering folks for revenge, or selling my soul to the devil; and yet, watch me and the rest of the world enjoying fictional assasians, tyrannical Sith lords, monsters, witches and demons. What about ‘this is fiction’ are you not understanding? You have a list of characters you like just fine who are fucked up. And that’s alright. Cause it’s FICTION.

But I can’t be a “good black” unless I hate Billy Hargrove and never spare him a kind thought? Go all the fuck away with that. lol I am a child of god beloved. The light is within me. I am capable of depths of humanity your tiny brain can not yet conceive of. Apparently. I’m out here marching for my rights and educating white ignorance in real time, while you’re fighting in the sandbox over the right way to play with toys. I’ve forgivin former racists and watched them change lives when I’ve lacked the patience and the mental emotional capacity. I’m fighting the good fight and praying for the strength not to bitch slap my own relatives for their anti-black foolishness. Still black. Still enjoying Billy. I’mma keep doing me and put the blame for tired lazy writing that relies on tropes, titillating the white audience with the ‘things you can’t say’, and trauma porn where it belongs. REAL PEOPLE. Aka the Duffer Brothers and the folks at Netflix. Peace.

#stranger things #ranting #can’t believe the shit I am seeing in some tags #ya’ll need jesus #Billy Hargrove #being cheeky but also kinda done

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lionydoorin · 2 years ago

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"Nope, I didn’t. I specifically said he can, actually. What I did say is that he couldn’t speak to Billy’s internal motivations." okay. but he wasn't the only one who said it. the duffers also Did state from the start that billy's prejudice against lucas was embedded in racism and even mentioned his abusive behaviour towards max. even so, as a black man, caleb pointing out the character's racism should be enough.

and even then, i don't understand one thing? you're right, billy's abuse can be used as a "justification" for his racism, but it certainly isn't an excuse.

and while OP didn't refute the bad survivor rhetoric, i still don't understand how that's an explanation to justify how we shouldn't hold him accountable for his actions. we can feel bad for him for how he wasn't provided with a support system to help him break out of the cycle of abuse, evolve as a person, and move on. but it doesn't change the wrong he's done.

"It's okay he physically intimidated a 13 year old because that's just how teenagers are??" Except I hadn't said that. I said that's how a lot of children that age interact with people in their family who are also that age, and my point was that contentious doesn't mean abusive." i'm sorry, but your own personal experiences shouldn't be used to justify it, either, since you also don't know billy's personal motivations as much as we – or, even, caleb, as you stated – don't. if that's a justification, i also have an older sister who i had a lot of disagreements with when we were younger, but we never did it with brutal force. and even then, lucas isn't billy's sibling, or cousin, or anything in fact. he used his hands to threaten a child he didn't even know. they weren't the same age. we're talking about an 18 years old saying when he's mad he likes to break things — while also holding a black kid by his collar, going straight for him specifically out of everyone else.

and while yes, you didn't say that what billy did to lucas was okay, you still "brush it off" or undermine the message it's supposed to have by relying in explanations that, again, they can justify the origin of billy's racism, but doesn't excuse his actions.

and you're not doing a good job in proving nancy's also sympathetic to you. you did jump in the post with arguments of how she's "rewarded" by the narrative while also pointing moments that are embedded in her own personal traumas and conflicts of the show.

for example, steve was, in fact, a really crappy boyfriend in season one, and i’m not saying that from a personal view; he was initially written like this, and his behaviour was even acknowledged by steve himself in the later seasons, where he grows from his mistakes and changes as a person. to put it simple; he invalidated her feelings, had a burst of jealousy over someone who nancy had, at the time, no romantic interest for and slut-shamed her for it with no real proof of her cheating. her best friend went missing the night she lost her virginity, and later by the end of the season she discovered said friend was dead. she blamed herself for the loss of her friend; how was she rewarded by the narrative for that?

the original post stated how your side of the fandom loves to pick and choose what to point out or not. how you believe in a narrative that accuses nancy of being ableist when she was not (and, how you proved even further, also in a narrative where she was rewarded for things she wasn't), while also finding reasons to excuse billy's actions and justify your liking for the character regardless. if you didn't get that, i'm sorry, but your replies were the tone deaf ones.

my issue with "stans" and people who like Billy or any other Stranger Things Guy is not that they like him, sympathize with him, headcanon him, whatever, (I know nothing I say can talk you out of liking them but it's fine, to each their own) it's the rampant hypocrisy yall like to spout I am SO sick of it

I appreciate that y'all want to take a nuanced look at the source material, but you can't cherry-pick what parts of the narrative you want to acknowledge !!

y'all want to talk about classism and ableism within the show, which i admire! those are super interesting themes in Stranger Things!! but you all REFUSE to acknowledge or interpret the themes surrounding racism, misogyny, and cycles of abuse and it discredits any argument yall wanna make about your special little guys.

I can acknowledge that Billy is a survivor of his father's abuse, I can see that he is a complex and interesting character and I don't care that you guys like him for this! but what y'all conveniently like to omit is that he chose to perpetuate the abuse he faced onto Max. he could have forged a relationship with her like his literal narrative foil, Johnathan, did with Will in the face of their abusive father, but he didn't and that was His Choice.

or the common argument about Nancy and ableism for example! (and before yall come for my ass, yes, i am autistic.)

when Nancy is rude to Robin one (1) time, it's not because she's an overwhelmed teenager who just lost another friend and has had to face so much doubt in her ideas thanks to the men in her life and is just now trying to forge friendships again, it's because she's a master manipulator ableist obviously.

So, if y'all care about Nancy getting annoyed with Robin, where are the posts shunning Steve for being mean to Robin? calling Robin hyper? for telling Nancy that Robin has "problems"? for letting Robin run off into the Upside Down alone? is that not more ableist than Nancy getting annoyed with Robin for talking a lot in a high-stress situation?

Do you see the issue?

how are y'all willing to excuse Billy for attacking actual children but aren't willing to provide that same grace towards Nancy when she protects those same children with her life?

you ask us to see the truth behind the actions of Billy and Steve yet condemn Nancy for every mistake in the same breath? what exactly is the line between a traumatized teenager and a monster in your mind?

you claim that Nancy is evil and classist towards Johnathan but ignore the sexism (which is literally. the main conflict. of their relationship. they don't understand each other), neglect, and parentification she faced. you wax poetic that Billy is so misunderstood but ignore the way he routinely tormented Max and attacked Lucas for dating Max, which both the Duffer Brothers and Caleb himself said is meant to be racially motivated.

y'all make up so many reasons to forgive and excuse the men of the narrative for their behavior but do not allow female characters the same grace and it is so. annoying. y'all want to be this cool nuanced fan safe space but you just pull the same shit as a dudebro movie buff echo chamber and I'm soooo done with it.

#i'm just gonna leave this here and not come back to this discussion later #just wanted to add my two cents #but by the way this is going we all know no one is going to convince the other side of anything

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urboymutual · 2 years ago

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Hi, I totally get and agree with your post about writing Kaia. My problem is that I'm currently working on a fic centered around Claire and the other girls spanning s13-15, and I was wondering what to do with Kaia. I know next to nothing about indigenous American culture, and I'm afraid of leaning into some of the stereotypes by including her, but I also don't know how to exclude her while keeping the main storyline canon-compliant. Don't know if you're the right person to ask, but I had no idea who to turn to.

hey hi anon sorry if this is late LOL but yeah that does seem like a tricky situation and ur trying to stay canon compliant .. hm i mean im a firm believer in somethings r canon dont need to be carried over into fics (busty asian beauties, kaia, spn's canon treatment of black characters like gordon and billie)

personally i feel like ur best bets r like replacing kaia with an oc (if u choose to make ur oc indigenous u can always talk to indigenous writers on tumblr -- not necessarily ones in the fandom) but really like. you want to avoid the dreamwalking aspect of her character as its treated as a "superpower" thats why its so complicated to write her bc her whole character is just rooted in racism

but u could also just try replacing her role with maybe an unexplored minor character-- alicia banes (im clairealicia shipper to the end) max or stacy or krissy, just any other minor character and try to avoid the dreamwalking part of kaia's character. like for example, u could write that alicia's magic helps them find the other universe or even tweak patience's ability to see into the future to see into other universes too (like hello that would be such an interesting concept) i hope this makes sense! like staying canon compliant by using another canon character instead of her.

finally, this one i'm very :// about like this should be plan z on ur list of ideas of plans a-z but you could always just write her out idk this idea because it includes continuing to write about her and as i mentioned. u cant really take the racism out of her character without erasing her character completely lol

i hope this was helpful in a way? but i think if you do choose not to include her it's best to have an authors note because not alot of people (usually ⚪️...) don't understand how problematic her character is . they usually just view her as "poc rep" and go lmao

#idk if this made any sense 🧍‍♂️#but yeah its like . if she was a pizza #u remove the tomato sauce = drug abuse #u remove the dough = dreamwalking #u remove the cheese = bad place kaia #U literally have nothing left

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thebussynotes · 2 years ago

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Now I remember why I like the Billy community so much, because they give his character(one that’s largely hated) a chance and it remind me of the Hifumi Yamada community(specifically on TikTok because I’m still not fond of tumblr yet but it’s working) where they gave him a chance as well and tried to show people the good in him and how his intentions were in the right place and how silly he is…etc. But I feel more fond of the Billy community and it’s because you guys never gave up on him despite how fucking D I R T Y they did him in season 3/4 and being very inclusive with him and just being very chill about him in every way and make silly headcanons about him and delve(I hope that’s the right word) into his very complex trauma. You guys never gave up on him. It’s harder for me to find Hifumi content now in days because Hifumi was also done very dirty but their recent(I’m not sure how recent it is anymore lmao) game “DR:S(Danganronpa: Summercamp(?))”, the writers seem to make it their goal to make Hifumi more and more hated by the fandom as a whole, it pissed the Hifumi community and they have stopped(from what I know of) making Hifumi content and rightfully so if they so choose but it’s sad because many Danganronpa fans like Stranger Things fans don’t like how canon treats their favorite characters but then have the audacity to say “it’s canon that Hifumi/Billy did…(this that the third)”. Like they are both fucked by the narrative so bad and y’all refuse to acknowledge it just because they made bad decisions (Billy being an implied rascist(I don’t perceive him as racist though that line did make me feel some type of way) (Edit(5/6/23): I reread this a while back and yes he was racist for that comment, I feel like he would have unlearned it if he lived and got away from Neil(which is where his racism stemmed from in the first place)) and Hifumi making his classmates uncomfortable in some occasions and for ⚠️*spoilers for chapter three of DANAGNRONPA : Trigger Happy Havoc*⚠️ killing Taka(Kiyotaka Ishimaru)). Like there are more to their actions that meet the eye but not many acknowledge it and it’s alright if you do not like a character or if said character makes you uncomfortable, but to go off and harass the fans of said characters is fucked like at this point just shut your fucking mouth and don’t interact with the content that’s being provided to you. I hope this all made sense and I feel like I got distracted from the main point of this but in all I love the Billy community and it makes me miss the Hifumi community a lot more but it’s okay because Hifumi and Billy are now besties and no one can fucking stop me >: D I absolutely love them both and I’ll cherish them both with my heart no matter their many flaws. End of discussion.

(As they are deep into conversation)

Billy: wait, so let me get this straight… so you write about characters that are on tv…on the internet?…what the hells the internet? And what’s the point of writing about those characters if they aren’t real?… that sounds unreal…

Hifumi : *thinks hardly for a minute before responding* I guess I’m gonna have to give you a big lecture on this history of the internet and fanfiction and Princess Piggles of course! Buckle in it’s gonna be a wild ride!

Billy : sure, talk as much as you want Dick Tip*points at his ahoge*

Hifumi : Okay and please don’t ever call me that again! Hmph! *starts talking about the internet for a long while*

*they are both enjoying each other’s company and discovering a lot of things together considering their time period difference*

///notes on the picture///

*(Hifumi) talking about his interests with passion(as he should >:3)*

*(Billy) is impressed and intrigued by what he’s saying actually and is actively listening to him but doesn’t know(or in this case understand) wtf he’s talking about*

(and no he’s not talking he just has his mouth open because he’s been fed so much information all at once and he doesn’t know wtf to say because Hifumi just keeps talking XD)

#billy hargrove #love the Billy Hargrove fandom/community #hifumi yamada #love the Hifumi Yamada fandom/community #fuck the duffers #fuck the Danganronpa writers #billy hargrove deserved better #Hifumi Yamada deserves better #leave these boys at peace and leave their fans alone they aren’t doing anything to you

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stranger-rants · 2 years ago

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Even if they don't want to acknowledge Billy's home life as a reason to understand his behaviour in season 2. (Which I can get on a base level, he's very easy to project your own personal bully's behaviour onto.)

To see him get violently stripped of his bodily autonomy, puppeteered around by a lovcraftien monster to do nightmarish things he has absolutely no possibility of understanding. All ending in a brief moment of control before its ripped away in brutal death...

No one is asking them to like him but seeing anyone go through that, let alone a kid AND STILL not giving him an ounce of compassion or thinking that's enough torture for even a sliver of empathy?

There are monsters here... but they sure as hell ain't Billy or the Mindflayer

When people call Billy an “abusive racist asshole,” it’s almost always used as a device to avoid any responsibility they have as a viewer to critically engage with Billy’s story and almost never about holding him “accountable” for anything he actually did wrong - because why are we calling him that with full confidence in reference to a season where he wasn’t abusive or racist? Why do people feel justified and gleeful even at the thought of Billy being resurrected only to be painfully tortured and killed again? These people are not good people, but they’re cosplaying as good people. They’re cosplaying as allies who pretend to care about systematic abuse and racism while condemning people hurt by those systems to a brutal, humiliating, and dehumanizing death. That looks and sounds like advocacy for institutional harm which disproportionately impacts people who have been abused.

There’s nothing entertaining about Billy crashing his car in the middle of nowhere after driving out to a cheap motel where he was supposed to meet up with an adult who preyed on him. There’s nothing joyful about Billy being pulled violently down the stairs screaming and clawing to get free while a monster violates him body and mind. I don’t understand the sick pleasure these people get out of every single thing being taken from Billy including his bodily autonomy, as if he didn’t already spend a significant part of his life being controlled by his abuser. It also doesn’t make sense to insist that Billy died a “piece of shit” who didn’t redeem himself when he literally gave up his life so that the people of Hawkins, none of whom really gave a shit about him, could live. These people don’t care about abuse or racism. They’re losers with victim complexes just like The Duffers who can’t accept that their bullies real or imagined have complex lives.

#asks #fandom wank

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thewordswewrite · 2 years ago

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Lonely Is Our Lives

Chapter 1 - Wild Side

Pairing | Billy Hargrove x Fem!Reader

Playlist | Link | Chapter One: Songs 1-4

Summary | One fateful 1983 night you narrowly escape death on Steve Harrington’s property while Barbara Holland is presumed dead. Left jaded and angry, you carry on towards your senior year in a haze of sex, drugs, and alcohol just to get through the day. But, when Billy Hargrove moves to Hawkins, Indiana during the fall of 1984 things get worse before they get better.

Warnings | explicit language, angst, abusive parents, smut 18+ minors DNI, heavy drug and alcohol usage

W/C | 3.3k

A/N | I 100% understand if Billy is not a character for you and you hate him but I’m finally in a place in my life where I feel like I can write him as someone other than an angry, abusive asshole. This isn’t all sentiment tho cause Dacre Montgomery is a gorgeous human being and I did immediately think he was unnecessarily attractive. He doesn't end up perfect but he’s not horrible. -Smoe

Beer and sweat overwhelmed you as you stepped into Tina’s house. The place was a blur of half-assed Halloween costumes and booming music. Immediately, you felt your face twisting into a grimace; parties like this weren’t really your scene, not anymore. Last year, though? You’d be eating this shit up. And it wasn't because of the drugs, or the alcohol, or the sex because you still partook, heavily and often. No, it was because you could genuinely say you hated the majority of Hawkins High’s population; nothing they cared about felt like it mattered anymore.

You hadn't meant to see what you did but being in the wrong place at the wrong time can screw over anyone. All you’d done was go to one stupid party at Steve Harrington’s house and decided to sit with Barbara Holland when she slit her hand open trying to shotgun a beer. At the time. you thought her mildly pathetic and increasingly awkward as the space between Steve and her ‘best friend’ got smaller. Now all you could muster was regret.

You tried. You really, really tried, but one slash of that…thing’s claws and you couldn't hold onto her. Your arms ached and blood gushed from where it had dug into your flesh, through muscle, and close to bone. Barb was dead and you were bleeding out next to Steve Harrington’s pool as he and Nancy Wheeler had sex inside. The only reason you’d survived was that you finally screamed loud enough for one of them to hear and call an ambulance. You were in the hospital for almost two weeks before you could go home and now, almost a year later, you were left with five jagged scars stretching about an inch from your jugular, down your shoulder, and onto your chest. The official story was a bear attack. What a fucking joke.

Since then, you’d gotten close to Steve and Nancy which was the entire reason you’d come tonight. Steve had wanted to ‘pretend like we’re stupid teenagers’ and you’d decided to play along. So here you were dressed as Sarah Conner from The Terminator, drinking stale beer and third-wheeling for the happy couple. Nancy was already going hard, cup after cup but Steve managed to wrangle her over to stand with you where you were chainsmoking by the window.

“You having fun there, Nance?” You asked with a chuckle.

“So much!” She smiled but her eyes were sad, a look the both of you had mastered well.

Steve smiled, oblivious, and kissed her. He then looked over to you and raised his eyebrows, finally remembering you were there and passed you a beer. “How-uh, how bout’ you? Talk to anyone yet?” He asked, searching your face with concern.

“Getting around to it. Just gonna finish this and I'll be out there!” You gestured at him with the beer and smiled sarcastically.

“You said you’d try,” Steve deflated. “I’m trying, Nancy’s trying. Why can’t you?”

“Yeah,” Your laugh was hollow as you took a drag of your cigarette. “She’s trying real hard.” Steve opened his mouth to argue but looked over at his girlfriend staring off at the bustle of people and frowned.

A boy clad in leather and a mullet caught your eye as he pushed his way through the crowd, but his eyes weren’t on you, they were on Steve. Tommy H trailed behind him and wrapped his arm around The Terminator’s shoulder. The two of them stopped in front of your group and stared down Steve.

Tommy clapped the new kid on the back and smiled. “We got ourselves a new Keg King, Harrington!”

“Yeah, that’s right!”

“Eat it, Harrington!”

You watched as Nancy rolled her eyes and walked off, leaving Steve to gape at the offenders before locking eyes with you. “I’ll be back, or…just find us if you feel like it.” With that, he went after her and left you alone. The taller boy scoffed and looked away, shaking his head.

“So! Looks like we match, Keg King,” You smiled sarcastically and blew your eyes wide. The boy looked back at you with disinterest and mild anger as he smoked but his eyes gave you a once over and his body language began to shift.

“This here is Billy,” Tommy smiled and introduced you. Billy, seemingly perturbed by Tommy’s hand still latched onto his shoulder, shook him off.

“Billy…?” You lead on, sipping your beer.

Billy’s face broke out in a grin and he flicked his tongue out to wet his lips. “Hargrove. Billy Hargrove, sweetheart,” His mood took a complete 180° and yours only grew worse.

“You dethroned ol’ Stevie, huh?” Your voice was bored and you leaned on the wall behind you as you finished off your cigarette, soaking in the last fleeting scent of clove that cut through the musk of the room. Billy angled his body towards Tommy and with a jerk of his head sent him on his way, his stare never straying from you.

“Guilty,” He was still smiling as he stuck a Marlboro Red between his lips and lit it with his zippo. You returned his smile ruefully and couldn’t help but laugh a bit at his arrogance. As if being Keg King fucking mattered. Charm was rolling off this kid in waves and you couldn't help but feel suffocated. “So, did you come here with a Terminator or just Risky Business?”

You plucked the cigarette from his lips and put it between your own, “No Arnold to come and whisk me onto the dancefloor. As for Risky Business? Well, it seems they’re a bit occupied at the moment.” You couldn’t blame Steve and Nancy for your shitty night, not really, but you were still left out to dry no matter how much Steve had tried to assure you you wouldn't be. Hell, Nancy had even admitted to you that she didn’t want to be there but was doing it for Steve and you still managed to be pushed aside.

“This King Steve I’ve been hearing so much about doesn’t seem to live up to his reputation,” Billy leaned closer, invading your space as you smoked his cigarette. His forearm rested on the wall next to your head, his face mere inches from yours.

You took advantage of the proximity and exhaled your drag into his face. “Well, you seem to be living up to yours,” His eyes fluttered closed as the smoke ghosted across his face.

When he opened them again, you were greeted by those baby blues you were sure others had fallen over themselves for. “Which is?” You quickly searched his eyes, finding nothing you hadn’t seen before. Adrenaline, lust, rage: nothing special. Yet somehow you’re still disappointed as if he could've been different. The same. Out of the corner of your eye, you caught your friends storming through the crowd.

With a small sigh, you push off the wall Billy had you nearly boxed against, forcing him back. “Well, as fun as it's been, King Billy,” You paused, finally breaking eye contact to look around the room. “I must be off. You understand, right? Responsibilities and all.” You gestured in the direction of Steve and a very drunk Nancy, arguing by the punch bowl as you lazily walked away.

You approached them, watching as Steve tried to pull a cup of punch from Nancy’s hands. Before you could even open your mouth to speak, the cup went flying and Nancy’s pristine white outfit was covered in stark red.

You grabbed Nancy as she stumbled back. “Woah, hey, Nance, let's go to the bathroom and get you cleaned up, yeah?” You lead her to the bathroom, Steve trailing behind you with his head hung low. Once you got inside, Nancy wet a hand towel and started a futile effort to remove the stain.

“Nance, I'm sorry,” Steve tried, running a hand through his hair.

You continued to watch in pity as Nancy failed to remove the punch from her shirt. “That’s not coming off, Nance.” You tried to take the towel from her but she pulled away roughly.

“It’s coming,” She grunted. In the year you’d known them you had never seen Nancy get even close to drunk so her volatile mood surprised you.

Steve sighed clearly put out. “Come on. Let us take you home, okay? Come here,” Nancy struggled against his hold. “Let me take you home.” You rolled your eyes at his lovesick tone.

“You want-, you wanted this,” She slurred, eyes droopy as they looked up at Steve.

“No, I didn’t want this. I told you to stop drinking.” Steve’s voice was trying to keep the conversation light but the mood stayed heavy. The three of you bickered often but never had it felt so serious.

“It's… bullshit. Bullshit.” Nancy looked sullen and your rigid stance softened at her doe-eyed stare.

“It's not bullshit, Nance,” You tried rubbing her arm but she slapped you off. Your eyebrows shot up in surprise and you felt your face begin to heat in anger.

“Bullshit!”

Steve shook his head, “No, It's not bullshit, Nancy.”

“No, you. You’re bullshit! Both of you.” She pointed between the two of you with a shaky hand.

You could see Steve’s heart crack just as his voice did. “W-What?”

But you were livid. “What the hell, Nancy.”

Her eyes were empty, looking at her boyfriend. “You’re pretending like everything’s okay. You know, like we didn't…like we didn't kill Barb,” Nancy’s voice broke and she turned her attention to you. “And you were only there to get drunk and fuck! You almost died and you still haven’t changed at all.”

You’d changed. You’d changed more than either of them had even tried. Before, nothing really mattered to you; people were meant to be sucked dry of their worth and thrown aside at your desire before you didn’t care. You had worked and actively tried to be better. If not for yourself then at least for Barb. Because that’s what she deserved: better.

You leaned over and trapped her against the sink. “I get that she was your friend and you’re drunk,” Your eyes narrowed at her, “But you’re dancing on a fine line right now Wheeler.”

Steve shoved you off of Nancy and regained his spot in front of her. “Everything can be okay, Nancy.”

She laughed and looked away. “Yeah, like, it's great. Like we’re in love and we’re-, we’re partying,” Her voice began to soften and tears gathered at the corners of her eyes. “Yeah, let’s party, huh? Party. We’re partying. This is bullshit.”

“‘Like we’re in love’?” Steve’s voice was barely above a whisper as he took Nancy’s face in his hands. The sight was stomach-turning even for you.

“It’s bullshit.”

“You don’t love me?”

“It’s bullshit,” Nancy reaffirmed.

Steve’s eyes steeled and he pushed past you and Nancy. “Steve, wait-,” You tried but he didn't listen, leaving the room and slamming the door shut behind him.

Nancy turned back to the mirror and began scrubbing at her shirt again. “You go too. Go party. Have sex, do drugs. It’s all bullshit.”

You laughed, hard and fast. “Come tomorrow, Wheeler, you’ll be real sorry for this.”

Nearly shoulder-checking her, you followed Steve out the door. Your blood was hot with anger as you made your way back into the crowd and your eyes landed on Jonathan Byers talking to some goth chick. Good enough.

“Byers!” You shouted and he whipped towards you. “You’re here for Nancy, right?”

“I, uh,” He stuttered but you didn’t have the patience for that.

You rolled your eyes and held a hand up to silence him. “Yes or no?”

“Yes!”

“She’s in the bathroom drunk off her ass and dead set on ruining all her relationships tonight. Take her home.” You threw your thumb over your shoulder in the direction of the bathroom and stalked towards the punch bowl.

Fuck it. If she wanted you to party, you’d party.

“What’s in this?” You asked a toga-clad boy.

“Pure fuel! Pure! Fuel!” The boy screamed and you shrugged, satisfied.

Drink after drink you kept dipping your cup into the bowl until you felt your senses go fuzzy, your mood starting to turn. You felt a smile pull itself onto your face and you broke your way into the crowd searching for a distraction. For your Terminator. When you found him, he was holding another girl close, smoking in her face, and swaying to the music. Determinately, you tapped on the girl’s shoulder and leaned down to her level.

“Mind if I cut in?” The girl turned, at first in protest, but when her eyes locked with yours, her mouth snapped shut. She mustered a glare at you before walking off.

You laced your hands around Billy’s neck, almost challenging him to push you off. After a few moments, his hands found your hips and you leaned into them, letting him guide you to the thrum of the music. You let yourself succumb to the atmosphere and closed your eyes, leaning your head up towards the ceiling. Billy pulled you flush against him and you finally opened your eyes to find yourself once again staring into the crystal clear blue ocean of Billy Hargrove and you think, maybe you can see why people would fall over themselves for him.

His tongue flicked out over his lips, a habit you took notice of. “What made you change your mind, sweetheart?”

“It’s all bullshit anyway, isn't it?” Your breath coasted over his face in such proximity. “So, fuck it, let's party,” You didn’t give him time to respond before you were surging forward and clashing your lips together. Nothing about the kiss was soft, not your chapped lips or the scruff of his mustache; it was full of anger and need. His fingers were gripped in your hair and you were practically grinding in the middle of the packed room until you pulled away, both of you heaving in breaths.

He didn’t even utter a word when suddenly Billy was pulling you along through the crowd, weaving left and right around drunken teenagers and out of the house towards his Camaro. A flash of California caught your attention as you went around to the passenger side of the car. Filing that away for later, you climbed in the back seat as soon as it was open and met his lips with your own when both the doors were finally closed. His hands held your face as yours worked on undoing his belt, quickly loosening the buckle and moving on to unbutton his jeans.

“Help me with mine,” You panted.

You didn’t need to change. Sex and drugs were good.

He helped guide your jeans down as you shimmied your hips to get them over your ass and down your legs. He then moved to the hem of your shirt and panic flared in your chest before you stopped him.

“Don’t bother, we won't be here that long.”

Billy scoffed but dropped his hand. “You sound so sure.”

“I am,” You smiled at his annoyance and kissed along his jaw, swinging your leg over his hips, and settling on his lap. You rolled your body atop Billy’s to the beat of the bass inside and relished in the moan you coaxed out of him as you sucked a hickey into the soft skin of his neck, right over his pulse point. Billy’s fingers soon found themselves slipping past the elastic of your lacy underwear and down to your clit, where he moved them in tight circles, eliciting a surprised gasp from you. He kissed you soundly, tongue painting the inside of your mouth when he reached his fingers down even lower and into your awaiting entrance, drawing out a long broken moan from your lips.

“Billy, I need more,” You demanded.

Hastily, Billy removed his fingers from inside you and leaned forward, cradling the small of your back. Opening his dash, he pulled out a strip of condoms and tore one off. He freed himself from his jeans and rolled the condom on before shoving your underwear to the side and sinking you down onto him. The car filled with moans as you both moved in tandem, each selfishly chasing after your own orgasm. One of your hands was occupied rubbing frantic circles into your clit and the other was tangled into Billy’s curls holding his mouth against yours as you kissed. He moaned into your mouth before pulling his head away to look down at where the two of you met.

“Fuck, you feel so good,” His hands were kneading the flesh of your hips, holding you firmly and forcing you to move at the vicious speed he set. You felt the dull ache of where his fingers would definitely leave bruises but you couldn't find it in yourself to care when you had left at least three prominent hickeys higher on his neck than you knew he could conspicuously cover.

“Don’t stop, don't-, harder…please!” You moaned, too close for Billy to even think of slowing down. Spurred on by your cries, he complied, picking you up and plunging you down to meet his forceful thrusts, which grew harder with each passing second.

Your orgasm came quickly, thanks to your deft fingers and Billy’s pace, but he was cumming right along with you not long after, his hips snapping up into you and stuttering into a stop as his breath labored. The car was quiet other than the sound of your combined heaving and musty with the smell of sex. Your vision was hazy with pleasure when you lifted yourself off of him and pulled your underwear off to clean yourself up. You threw the dirtied lace at Billy’s chest and huffed at his confused stare.

“Keep 'em. I don't care.” Billy smirked and shoved them in the pocket of his jacket. You raised your eyebrows, not expecting the action.

“For later,” He explained. You’d thrown them at him more to try and crack at his fuck-all persona, not for him to actually take but you didn't mind. He wasn't the only guy in Hawkins with a pair of your underwear.

With practiced ease, you put your jeans back on and fixed your hair in the reflection of the window, only to find Billy staring at you, one hand behind his head and the other holding a lit cigarette. You stared at him, contemplating whether to take out your own cigarettes. After smoking most of them just trying to get through the night, you only had four left in the carton. It’s a party.

“Fuck it.” You pulled your pack from where it was kept safe in your bra and licked your lips, sticking one of them in your mouth and savoring the taste of clove. These were a treat. Billy leaned over and lit your cigarette with his own burning one.

“Thought King Steve had Wheeler and you wrapped around his dick,” Billy probed, adjusting himself to look at you.

“Steve doesn't even have Nancy wrapped around his dick,” Stretching across the seat you sighed, rubbing your tired eyes. “And definitely not me. It’s more of a…” You trailed off. Post-sex brain was ready to spill your life story but you were not on the same page. “Doesn’t matter.”

“Oh no, please,” He smirked. “Do tell.”

You shook your head and spun around, preparing to get out of the car. “It’s been nice California but we’ve still got school tomorrow and I'm not trying to be dead on my feet.” In a moment of rash thinking, you surged forward and captured his lips in a kiss, pulling away before he could reciprocate and give his cheek a few playful slaps.

You opened the car door and stepped out, “Let’s do this again sometime, yeah?” With a final tight smile, you slammed the door shut and strode off back into the house to find Steve to take you home.

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tcm · 4 years ago

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Reframing Films of the Past: An Interview with TCM Writers

All month long in March, TCM will be taking a look at a number of beloved classic films that have stood the test of time, but when viewed by contemporary standards, certain aspects of these films are troubling and problematic. During TCM’s Reframed: Classics in the Rearview Mirror programming, all five TCM hosts will appear on the network to discuss these issues, their historical and cultural context and how we can keep the legacy of great films alive for future generations.

Also joining in on this conversation are four TCM writers who were open enough to share their thoughts on their love of classic movies and watching troubling images of the past. Special thanks to Theresa Brown, Constance Cherise, Susan King and Kim Luperi for taking part in this conversation. Continue the conversation over on TCM’s Twitter.

What do you say to people who don’t like classics because they’re racist and sexist?

KL: There are positive representations in classic Hollywood that I think would blow some peoples’ minds. I always love introducing people to new titles that challenge expectations.

That said, anyone who broadly slaps a sexist or racist label on a large part of the medium’s history does a disservice to cinema and themselves. That mindset keeps them ignorant not only of some excellent movies and groundbreaking innovation but history itself.

I think people need to remember that movies are a product of their time and they can reflect the society they were made into a variety of degrees - good, bad, politically, culturally, socially. That’s not to excuse racism or sexism; it needs to be recognized and called out as such for us to contend with it today. But it’s important for people who say they don’t like classics for those reasons to understand the historical context. In particular, we need to acknowledge that society has evolved - and what was deemed socially acceptable at times has, too, even if sexism and racism are always wrong - and we are applying a modern lens to these films that come with the benefit of decades worth of activism, growth and education.

SK: I totally agree K.L. For years I have been encouraging people to watch vintage movies who keep proclaiming they don’t like black-and-white films or silent films. For every Birth of a Nation (1915) there are beautiful dramas, wonderful comedies and delicious mysteries and film noirs.

These films that have racist and sexist elements shouldn’t be collectively swept under the rug, because as K.L. stated they shine a light on what society was like – both good and bad.

CC: First off, fellow writers may I say, I think your work is amazing. I'm continually learning from the talent that is here, and I am humbled to be a part of this particular company. Similar to the prior answers, for every racist/sexist film the opposite exists. Personally, classic musicals attracted me due to their visual assault, creativity and their unmistakable triple-threat performances. While we cannot ignore racist stereotypes and sexism, there are films that simply are "fantasies of art." There is also a review of evolution. In 20 years, what we now deem as acceptable behavior/conversation will be thought of as outdated and will also require being put into "historical context." What we collectively said/thought/did 20 years ago, we are currently either re-adjusting or reckoning with now, and that is a truth of life that will never change. We will always evolve.

TB: I would say to them they should consider the times the movie was made in. It was a whole different mindset back then.

Are there movies that you love but are hesitant to recommend to others because of problematic elements in them? If so, which movies?

TB: Yes, there are movies I’m hesitant to recommend. The big one, off the top of my head, would be Gone With the Wind (1939). The whole slavery thing is a bit of a sticky wicket for people, especially Black folks. Me, I love the movie. It is truly a monumental feat of filmmaking for 1939. I’m not saying I’m happy with the depiction of African Americans in that film. I recognize the issues. But when I look at a classic film, I suppose I find I have to compartmentalize things. I tend to gravitate on the humanity of a character I can relate to.

KL: Synthetic Sin (1929), a long thought lost film, was found in the 2010s, and I saw it at Cinecon a few years ago. As a Colleen Moore fan, I thoroughly enjoyed most of it, but it contains a scene of her performing in blackface that doesn’t add anything to the plot. That decision brings the movie down in my memory, which is why I have trouble recommending it.

Also Smarty (1934), starring Warren William and Joan Blondell, is another movie I don’t recommend because it’s basically about spousal abuse played for comedy, and it did not age well for that reason.

SK: Breakfast at Tiffany’s (1961): Audrey Hepburn is my favorite actress and I love her Oscar-nominated performance as Holly. I adore Orangy as Cat, as well as George Peppard and Buddy Ebsen, who is wonderfully endearing. And of course, “Moon River” makes me cry whenever I hear it. But then I cringe and am practically nauseous every time Mickey Rooney pops up on screen with his disgusting stereotypical performance as Holly’s Japanese landlord Mr. Yunioshi. What was director Blake Edwards thinking casting him in this part? Perhaps because he’s such a caricature no Japanese actor wanted to play him, so he cast Rooney with whom he had worked within the 1950s.

CC: I cannot necessarily state that I am in "love," but, a film that comes to mind would be Anna and the King of Siam (1946). It is an absolutely beautiful visual film. However, Rex Harrison as King Mongkut requires some explanation.

Holiday Inn (1942), and the Abraham number...why??? Might I also add, there were many jaw-dropping, racist cartoons.

How did you learn to deal with the negative images of the past?

KL: I often look at it as a learning experience. Negative images can provoke much-needed conversation (internally or with others) and for me, they often prompt my education in an area that I wasn’t well versed in. For instance, blackface is featured in some classic films, and its history is something I never knew much about. That said, seeing its use in movies prompted me to do some research, which led me first to TCM’s short documentary about blackface and Hollywood. I love how TCM strives to provide context and seeks to educate viewers on uncomfortable, contentious subjects so we can appreciate classic films while still acknowledging and understanding the history and the harmful stereotypes some perpetuated.

SK: It’s also been a learning experience for me. Though I started watching movies as a little girl in the late 1950s, thanks to TCM and Warner Archive I realized that a lot of films were taken out of circulation because of racist elements. TCM has not only screened a lot of these films but they have accompanied the movies with conversations exploring the stereotypes in the films.

CC: As a Black woman, negative images of the past continue to be a lesson on how Blacks, as well as other minorities, were seen (and in some cases still are seen) through an accepted mainstream American lens. On one hand, it's true, during the depiction of these films the majority of Black Americans were truly relegated to servant roles, so it stands to reason that depictions of Black America would be within the same vein. What is triggering to me, are demeaning roles, and the constant exaggeration of the slow-minded stereotype, blackface. When you look at the glass ceiling that minority performers faced from those in power, the need for suppression and domination is transparent because art can be a powerful agent of change. I dealt with the negative images of the past by knowing and understanding that the depiction being given to me was someone else's narrative, of who they thought I was, not who I actually am.

TB: I’m not sure HOW I learned to deal with negative images. Again, I think it might go back to me compartmentalizing.

I don’t know if this is right or wrong…but I’ve always found myself identifying with the leads and their struggles. As a human being, I can certainly identify with losing a romantic partner, money troubles, losing a job…no matter the ethnicity.

In what ways have we evolved from the movies of the classic era?

KL: I think we are more socially and culturally conscious now when it comes to stories, diversity and representation on screen and behind the scenes, which is a step forward. That said, while there's been growth, there's still much work to be done.

SK: I think this year’s crop of awards contenders show how things have evolved with Da 5 Bloods, Soul, One Night in Miami, Minari, Ma Rainey’s Black Bottom, The United States Vs. Billie Holiday, Judas and the Black Messiah and MLK/FBI.

But we still have a long way to go. I’d love to see more Native American representation in feature films; more Asian-American and Latino stories.

CC: There are minority artists, writers, producers, directors, actors with the increasing capacity to create through their own authentic voice, thereby affecting the world, and a measurable amount of them are women! Generally speaking, filmmakers (usually male) have held the voice of the minority narrative as well as the female narrative. I agree with both writers above in the thought that it is progress, and I also agree, more stories of diversified races are needed.

TB: One important way we've evolved from the movies made in the classic era by being more inclusive in casting.

Are there any deal-breakers for you when watching a movie, regardless of the era, that make it hard to watch?

KL: Physical violence in romantic relationships that's played as comedy is pretty much a dealbreaker for me. I mentioned above that I don't recommend Smarty (1934) to people, because when I finally watched it recently, it. was. tough. The way their abuse was painted as part of their relationship just didn’t sit well with me.

SK: Extreme racist elements and just as KL states physical violence.

Regarding extreme racist elements, D.W. Griffith’s Birth of a Nation (1915) is just too horrific to watch. I was sickened when I saw it when I was in grad school at USC 44 years ago and it’s only gotten worse. And then there’s also Wonder Bar (1934), the pre-code Al Jolson movie that features the Busby Berkeley black minstrel number “Goin’ to Heaven on a Mule.” Disgusting.

I also agree with KL about physical violence in comedies and even dramas. I recently revisited Private Lives (1931) with Norma Shearer and Robert Montgomery based on Noel Coward’s hit play. I have fond memories of seeing Maggie Smith in person in the play when I was 20 in the play and less than fond memories of watching Joan Collins destroying Coward’s bon mots.

But watching the movie again, you realized just how physically violent Amanda and Elyot’s relationship is-they are always talking about committing physical violence-”we were like two violent acids bubbling about in a nasty little matrimonial battle”; “certain women should be struck regularly, like gongs”-or constantly screaming and throwing things.

There is nothing funny or romantic about this.

KL: I try to put Birth of a Nation out of my mind, but S.K. did remind me of it again, and movies featuring extreme racism at their core like that are also dealbreakers; I totally agree with her assessment. I understand the technological achievements, but I think in the long run, especially in how it helped revive the KKK, the social harm that film brought about outdoes its cinematic innovations.

CC: Like S.K., Wonder Bar immediately came to mind. Excessive acts of violence, such as in the film Natural Born Killers (1994). I walked out of the theatre while the film was still playing. I expected violence, but the gratuitousness was just too much for me. I also have an issue with physical abuse, towards women and children. This is not to say I would not feel the same way about a man. However, when males are involved, it tends to be a fight, an exchange of physical energy, generally speaking, when we see physical abuse it is perpetuated towards women and children.

TB: I have a couple of moments that pinch my heart when I watch a movie. It doesn’t mean I won’t watch the movie. It just means I roll my eyes…verrrrry hard.

-Blackface…that’s a little rough; especially when the time period OF the movie is the ‘30s or ‘40s film.

-Not giving the Black actors a real name to be called by in the film (Snowflake…Belvedere…Lightnin’). I mean, can’t they have a regular name like Debbie or Bob?

-When the actor can’t do the simplest of tasks, i.e. Butterfly McQueen answering the phone in Mildred Pierce (1945) and not knowing which end to speak into. What up with that?

Are there elements they got right that we still haven’t caught up to?

KL: I don't know if the pre-Code era got sex right (and sensationalism was definitely something studios were going for) but in some ways, I feel that subject was treated as somewhat more accepted and natural back then. Of course, what was shown onscreen in the classic era was nowhere near the extent it is today, but the way the Production Code put a lid on sex (in addition to many other factors) once again made it into more of a taboo topic than it is or should be.

One thing I particularly hate in modern movies is gratuitous violence, and it perplexes and angers me how America weighs violence vs. sex in general through the modern ratings system: films are more likely to get a pass with violence, mostly landing in PG-13 territory and thus making them more socially acceptable, while sex, something natural, is shunned with strictly R ratings. Obviously, there are limits for both, but I think the general thinking there is backwards today.

CC: The elegance, the sophistication, the precision, the dialogue, the intelligence, the wit. The fashion! The layering of craftsmanship. We aren't fans of these films for fleeting reasons, we are fans because of their timeless qualities.

I'm going to sound like a sentimental sap here, ladies get ready. I think they got the institution of family right. Yes, I do lean towards MGM films, so I am coloring my opinion from that perspective. Even if a person hasn't experienced what would have been considered a "traditional family" there is something to be said about witnessing that example. Perhaps not so much of a father and a mother, but to witness a balanced, functioning, loving relationship. What it "looks like" when a father/mother/brother/sister etc. genuinely loves another family member.

I was part of the latch-key generation, and although my parents remained together, many of my friends' parents were divorced. Most won't admit it, but by the reaction to the documentary [Won't You Be My Neighbor?, 2018], the bulk of them went home, sat in front of the TV and watched Mr. Rogers tell them how special they were because their parents certainly were not. We don't know what can "be" unless we see it.

#Reframed #TCM #Turner Classic Movies #representation #racism #sexism #inclusion #diversity #cinephile #film #old Hollywood #Theresa Brown #Kim Luperi #Susan King #Constance Cherise

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