#and we fucking hate nightheart

[sproutleap]

nightheart sucks

[bonefall]

You may have answered this before, but how are you handling characters that don't believe in starclan, like mothwing and cloudtail? Personally I thought it was interesting when reading the books, considering cloudtail, but only to a point because it's very hard to write atheist characters in a setting where there's undeniable proof of the gods/spirits/etc. Like, how did they explain the literal forces of heaven and hell battling on earth??

As An Atheist Myself ™ I have a lot of feelings about the two of them. I think the short answer is just that in a setting where gods are literally undeniable facts of life, "Atheism" looks more like Dystheism, the belief that they exist, but are not worthy of worship.

That seemed to be the conclusion at the end of Mothwing's... i forgor the name of her novella 💀Mothflight's Blaspheme Boogie. It's actually why it's one of my favorite novellas, I really like the way it closes out with Mudfur trying to sales pitch StarClan's goodness to her, she doesn't buy a fucking penny of it, and ultimately concludes that the comfort it provides to her Clanmates is valuable to them but doesn't have to be for her.

So that's how I want to handle them. They have an outsider perspective to the fact that this is a theocracy, based on gods that can be vindictive and vengeful. Scourge/Iceheart is also joining these two, he actually is going to have a minor but important role in Squirrelflight's Horror as a ghost basically giving insight to what happens when you don't worship StarClan when you die.

With him and Mothwing I really know what I'm doing. Mothwing is insight to Leafpool, especially in TNP where she is now a POV, and observing how the though of StarClan influences the behavior of the cats around her. Scourge is killed in the Great Battle and serves as a ghost to witness their trial. Cloudtail...

Cloud's still evolving. He's going to be a supporting character with Ferncloud in her SE and exploring the feelings he has towards Ashfur, now his apprentice, becoming a villain. How he did his job perfectly, raised him with a deep respect towards the warrior code, and that lead to the person he is today. How he couldn't have done things "better" because this DID raise him the way his society expected him to.

But his dystheism is kind of secondary to that. I think the story I've got for him is fine so far, but it needs more of an 'ending' that I can't decide on until they finally kill him in the main books.

[amberberrystar]

man, one of my favorite things about nightheart as a character is that, as an apprentice, he went to a gathering where the adults were discussing the leader thing and he just pipes up from the kids table and says "hey, how about we try democracy" and everyone gets mad at him

like,,, it's so fuckin funny

[bruttomisandro]

I am strong believer that Fernsong, Sorrelstripe and Hollytuft were supposed to be the new main characters of AVOS, since it fits better with Hawkwing's Journey timeline, but someone love Bramblestar a little to much I supposed

[eelclaw]

okay new arc... my thoughts.

leafstar:

leafstar was one of my favorite characters as a kid, but not because of anything she actually did. i liked her graphic novels, but only mostly because i was delighted by sol being a pathetic girlfailure.

also my copy of skyclan's destiny was misprinted and had pages out of order, and i loved having a fucked up book.

i liked her in firestar's quest, but... she's done nothing in every book since.

sharpclaw pushes her around in skyclan's destiny, then tells her he was just challenging her to make her a more confident leader. nothing comes out of this.

she's worried about female leaders not being allowed to have kits and about inviting daylight warriors into the clan, and it would've been great to just skip these plotlines entirely. skyclan had a chance to be a different kind of clan, a breath of fresh air from the shit we normally read about, and they didn't take it.

in ravenpaw's farewell she decides that skyclan hates outsiders. then ravenpaw proves her wrong by helping chase out some rogues that skyclan somehow couldn't chase out on their own, so she changes her mind, but only enough to take in bella and riley.

the general back-and-forth and nothing getting done in avos, tbc, and asc just annoys me.

her going blind is actually pretty interesting, but it needs to be handled well, and it's not going to be.

she's pretty old at this point, so i hope she dies, but the kid in me still hopes she gets an awesome death.

tawnypelt:

the way she's treated in avos and in her novella is incredibly uninteresting.

her clanmates don't take her seriously because of how closely she was associated with rowanstar. that's cool! that's interesting! but how long has it been since avos? she's far and away proved herself to be a valuable member of shadowclan.

the "kids these days" plotline is so fucking frustrating, i don't want it to come back.

i thought her novella had a nice conclusion. she accepted that her lost loved ones were lost, and that she could not go back to the way things were, but she could keep moving forward, and she would see her family in starclan some day. from the blurb, this conclusion is going to be completely trampled.

i'm also sick of tigerheartstar changing every book, just to drive whatever the current mess of a plot is.

moonpaw:

not many thoughts. betting her parents are nightheart and sunbeam.

hoping she's distinct from frostpaw and shadowsight. i can't take a third one.

it would be interesting if nightheart dies before she's born, paralleling larksong dying before nightheart was born. then nightheart might realize a bit of what his parents were going through.

overall. not hopeful. i'm super tired of the formula they've been using for the past few arcs. i don't care about "the end of the cats' connection to starclan". just because these books are about religious cats doesn't mean we can't have deep, meaningful, character-driven plots. why can't we get one of those.

[justapigeonn]

/// THUNDER EXCERPT THOUGHTS AND SPOILERS

aww man frostpaw and whistlepaw's friendship is so fucking cute i love how she still trusts her despite losing all trust in EVERYONE. i wish we got to see the two of them more often

also the fact that frostpaw would rather ppl assume she were dead rather than alive for her mere safety is just so fucking sad i wanna hold her :(

man they really couldn't have just committed to giving squilf the prologue showing her journey to the moonpool and her leader's ceremony (?) but instead decided to give nightheart pointless special protagonist treatment in having him accompany them to the moonpool for whatever reason

ivypool got chosen as deputy - not really stoked or surprised cause i'm not a huge fan of her but everybody saw it coming a mile off so yeah. i have no idea if she's finally decided to stop giving dovewing grief for having more agency than her and leaving stinkerclan and whether or not squilf's potential decision to go to war with shadowclan will play a role in some sort of conflict between the sisters again but eh we'll see

very nice to see sunbeam, finchlight and sparkpelt all getting along but i hate hate HATE how her whole sense of belonging revolves around nightheart like. girlie what happened to your agency. the whole 'insecure because male love interest is no longer interested' was your book 1 conflict get a grip you are more than what he deserves go back to your one true love lightleap

[mspaintisevil]

Regressing (warrior cats)

(also spoilers for asc wind)

But anyway I hate nightsun it’s boring and more cringe then rootbristle. Sunbeam is just so “girl so boy has a love interest”. From the start where the most annoying guy she had one convo with is like “we are boyfriendgirlfriend now” and she didn’t get to have any input on that? And then the Erin’s barely make her hang out with nightheart except for when they are talking about his stupid challenges and because she feels like she has to because he put her on the spot. Then he up an leaves the clan he was joining for her (again girl he just met), and then she’s suddenly so over the moon about him that she Has To Go After Him. AND THEN as she’s completing her tasks to join his clan (again she still isn’t sure about how she feels about him) HE LEAVES (not his fault on a quest from God but still). And then when he comes back they are madly in love and talking about babies???? I wanna know what med cat herbs Sunbeam is on and what dose I need to take for the same effect.

Atleast with RootBristle Rootspring and Bristlefrost were only just thinking about it atleast bristlefrosts random no buildup feelings for Rootspring was before they even talked about dating instead of Rootspring being “I like you, you are my girlfriend now”

I know these are kids books and I shouldn’t expect much out of romance plots but I really don’t like the message of “If a guy likes you and says you are dating you are just supposed to go a long with it” ESPECIALLY since girls/young afab ppl are the most likely to read these books

Aside from the most obvious flaw of Erin’s Are Incompatible With Writing Romance I really fucking like the current series especially wind, like this is the most excited I’ve felt about a warrior cats book in a hot minute

[the-owl-tree]

There’s so many toms that I hate because they were shoved into the plot to steal a she-cats story for themselves… it’s SO OBVIOUS when the Erins do this. The she-cats deserve to have just as much of an arc and character depth as the toms do, yet the writing team consistently devolves it’s female cast into accessories for their male counterparts.

Examples:

- Alderheart (blatantly having been written to strip sparkpelt of an arc that so clearly should’ve been her own - ie “the spark that remains” - sparkpelt is then twisted into a xenophobic jerk at the drop of a hat to make alderheart look better than her, when previously she was VERY MUCH in support of SkyClan’s return. What the fuck, Erins??? Sandstorm is also iced for this loser’s manpain.

- Nightheart (basically every she-cat has their personality altered to fit his victim complex, and we all KNOW that Finchlight would’ve been more interesting and deserving of a pov than him. If they kill off spark, finch, or sun to further his angst, I will be so pissed off…

- Tree (violetshine’s character growth, struggles, and arc completely disintegrates with his introduction. in tbc, she’s reduced to your typical background protag mother… while tree remains a major character, and is not only hugely valued by the plot, but also by its characters. violetshine deserved so much better than to be shoved to the sidelines by this random-ass character who was *totally not introduced just to make her into a a generic wife and mother*. that’s not even getting into how stupid the Sisters fiasco is, where ‘waaah tree was oppressed by all the women in his life and kicked out, isn’t he just so tragic and sad???’… good god. that was bizarre

- brambleclaw: probably one of the worst offenders of this, right alongside alderheart. Tawnypelt should’ve gotten his pov, considering her personality in TNP… it seems liked they flipped their stories around just because she’s a she-cat, and they just *had* to make the main protagonist of the arc a tom. very disapointing

- rootspring: bristlefrost’s character arc was absolutley DERAILED by this character, and it’s such a shame. even her most iconic scene, her sacrifice, was primarily focused upon rootspring and his pissbaby manpain. also… needleclaw, anyone? she’s the one who should have the sisters’ abilities, after all, but instead she has none… how does she feel about that? I think exploring that would be much more interesting than ‘whiny loser is upset and feels weird that he can see ghosts in a society that values the ability to see ghosts, gets a girl by being weirdly pushy and not taking ‘no’ for an answer, and goes through extreme manpain after she’s iced to further his development’.

- crowfeather: I don’t have any qualms with early crowPAW, but what I DO have an issue with is just how much feathertail’s death is twisted to revolve around *him*, when, in reality, it should’ve focused on Feathertail herself, as well as her brother. FeatherCrow was just awful in general though… especially considering that her name is only invoked later on as an excuse for crowfeather to be an abuser, implying that he’s justified in hurting his wife and son, as well as leafpool and her kits, ‘because manpain’.

real & true, it sucks seeing how many mollies in the series will have really interesting stories and potential conflicts then have the writing team choose whatever supports the main dude around them. more i think about tree the more annoyed i am that it wasn't violet, the big prophecy kitten who had survived the kin and would have more reason to want to keep the clans from tearing each other's throats out. the mediator role is a dumb one (i say with my mediator oc) but it would have been nice if it was actually a character who we followed who got the position instead of "my mommy is mean to me :(" rando dude who just shows up.

[mothmans-wedding-photographer]

Finished Thunder! Here are my thoughts (spoilers obviously):

SQUIRRELSTAR SQUIRRELSTAR WE WON

Oh my I have so many mixed feelings on this book. I mean first of all I'm so excited for Squirrelstar but I digress. Also I'm pretty good with Ivypool deputy, I was rooting for Twigbranch but she was my second option :)

Frostpaw and Whistlepaw's friendship was so cute, Whistlepaw cares so much for her :) and I loved the bonding between Frostpaw and Nightheart, they're such good friends. It's nice to see Nightheart with someone with problems a lot worse than his, gives him some perspective.

The fact that Frostpaw was spayed is... interesting. I hope the story team doesn't make her be a medicine cat because "hey i can't have kits what's even the point of being a warrior :(" in real life TNR is great but from the perspective of humanized cats it feels so awful :(. Im not entirely against the plotline, I just hope it's handled well.

I hate Riverstar in this book he's so annoying and OOC. I did like the fact that they essentially sent Frostpaw to therapy to work through some of her trauma though lmao. Waffle is so cute, and I love Rook and Bee. I felt Wasp was a bit of an odd choice to come back to the Clans but whatever.

CURLFEATHER COMFIRMED EVIL YES our first main series female villain and she's complex?? She's awful and she used her kid, but she still loves her enough to sacrifice her life?? That's so cool. Splashtail is fine ig

Nightheart really did not need a POV this book lmao he just spent it worrying about Sunbeam. I do like that he's learning he's not the main character though lol, and again his friendship with Frostpaw is so sweet.

Sunbeam was sooo good this book I loved how they showed her learning to want to be in ThunderClan for ThunderClan, not just Nightheart. And she girlbossed when she stood up to her mom and Cherryfall, she's no longer a pushover! Character development.

I will say that argument at the start of the book between Bramble and Squirrel was stupid like ah yes the perfectly mentally capable woman somehow walked STRAIGHT INTO ANOTHER CLANS TERRITORY without realizing but somehow Bramble with his deteriorating mental state is right. Not misogynistic at all

OTTER CAMEO WHOOHOO

The ending with Berryheart was so anticlimactic and awful like she gets exiled for?? Expressing that she doesn't agree with her leader?? What the actual fuck??? I know she's xenophobic but she's not being exiled for that, she's being exiled for exercising her rights. Thanks I hate it! I wanted her to get kicked for like. Getting someone killed, or starting a fight, not this bullshit. Also Puddleshine miss me with that shit about how "one grudge can exploit this new code" like yeah ok but he's fucking invading and controlling another Clan, even if he has good intentions that's still a fair thing to be mad about?? (To be fair though Berryheart was being more xenophobic than on the side of RiverClan's freedom so I guess I can see where Puddleshine's coming from. I guess)

Speaking of why are all the protagonists so forgiving of Tigerheartstar like "he invaded, beat up, threatened to kill, and forcefully took control of this Clan and gets mad when people question him but he just has good intentions UwU" like no.

Splashstar real? That's going to be interesting. And I'm excited to see more of Podlight as a character

Overall an ok book, probably my least favourite of the arc so far but I still enjoyed most of it

[blimbo-buddy]

I’m curious about your opinions on Spiresight and Finchlight, they’re pretty high up but I don’t think you’ve talked abt them before c:

SpireSight

His regular name and new name fucking rocks

I really like his deal with having a strong connection with ShadowSight (Even if I felt we could have gotten more out of it)

His death is really just one of a kind

I like his friendship with TigerHeart

I just wish there was… more of him. More time for just a bit more development. Of course what we have in the books is fantastic but I just would have liked to see more of him. Also I think that since he died saving PounceKit, that should have given him another connection

Hell, I would argue that it'd be interesting if he has just a bit of connection with LightLeap and PounceStep as a ghost

I'm actually in the ballpark that it was sweet for TigerHeart to honor him with his own culture's naming system

But I am now horrified that he's in Starclan get him OUT

FinchLight

Okay where do I start

So even back in TBC when SparkPelt was exiled, I started liking FinchLight (Who was an apprentice at the time) because I thought it was nice that she chose to be with her mom in exile

But then ASC came around and I started feeling so fucking bad for her. She's doing her best to support her brother but he keeps giving her the cold shoulder

And then suddenly in the next book, she fucking hates that NightHeart requested a name change? Despite being really supportive of his choices in the first book Anything and everything I could say has already been said by so many people. Her character was assassinated in order to progress NightHeart's character, the end.

I'm just fucking mourning over what we could have gotten from her and her relationship with her brother. Like does she feel betrayed that he chose to stay behind? Does she get frustrated with him?

Besides that though I like her recent interactions with SunBeam in the recent books

[sparrowlovesskittles]

Shadow spoilers under the cut

Review time!

Holy fuck it was SO GOOD.

THINGS I ENJOYED

THE FROG SCENE. My new favourite warriors moment. I need to draw Nightheart with a frog suckered onto his face. Incredible. Nightheart is such a silly goofy guy and I'm so glad he gets to do stupid things each book.

SPLASHTAIL!!!!!! This is a BIG one for me, and ohhhh he was so evil it was so GOOD. We really got to see his manipulative side come out here and I adored it

Splashtail rejecting Frostpaw because it would be weird to date an apprentice. It's a small thing, but it's nice to have a little bit of canon saying hey. Stop.

Frostpaw slowly realising something is Wrong in RiverClan, but still turning to Splashtail because he built up trust between them. It's so clever and dark

Harelight! I like the guy and I'm glad he gets a little bit of spotlight. It's also nice to see him telling Frostpaw that he can help her learn to disguise her pale coat, I feel like I haven't seen that mentioned in a while.

Cloverfoot mentioning how Mistystar decorated her den with shells and feathers!!

Frostpaw getting to girlboss a bit. It was nice! She knows what's right for her and you CANNOT change her mind!

HER ENDING????? OH MY GOD I feel stupid but I did NOT see that coming I was so shocked it was like Curlfeather all over again LMAO. Why did they wait until she was right outside WindClan though. She'll be found and live. I highly doubt they'd kill off their best protagonist on book 3.

The trials! I know they were maybe a bit boring but I actually liked seeing them, AND seeing Berryheart get more and more pissed off throughout the book LMAO. Hilarious how they gave Nightheart a trial he basically already did last book (stealing from the twolegs)

Tigerstar hates socks

Berryheart. She's terrible. It's fun.

Sunbeam is still a pushover. Sure she stands up for herself a bit more now, but she usually chooses to back down in the face of conflict. I'm glad she's kept her personality after getting with Nightheart, which leads me to...

Sunbeam and Nightheart's relationship. I actually thought they were written okay for once. Sunbeam is not so sure about him at first (and is reasonably upset he publicly declared his love for her and decided to move in with her without consulting her first) but we actually get to see her come to appreciate him more. It's not the strongest romance obviously, but for warrior cats, the way it was handled in this book (not the other two) was actually not that bad, and I didn't mind that they stayed together in the end. I liked seeing them spend time together and I liked the way they described each other's personality traits. Sunbeam thinking Nightheart's confidence was attractive, and Nightheart thinking about how he'll miss her cleverness and courage more than anything else. I dunno, I felt pleasantly surprised.

Nightheart realising he was being unreasonable and coming to understand his family's reasons for acting the way they did, and especially the way he reconciled with Sparkpelt! They both got a chance to apologise and forgive each other (and themselves) and it was really nice to see.

Sunbeam saying Blazefire 'broke up' with her?? Warriors never uses this casual language for relationships, especially when they weren't even officially mates to begin with, it was kinda jarring to see but I liked it

THINGS I DID NOT ENJOY

Nightheart's sudden switch back to ThunderClan feels sudden and unearned. He was literally fighting with Sparkpelt and Finchlight earlier in the book and then at some point he realised he was wrong for that off screen. Also I was kind of unreasonably irritated that he failed his last task on purpose lmao

Frostpaw not telling anyone anything. Frostpaw please talk to people.

WHY DID EVERYONE FORGET ABOUT TREE??????? WHY ISN'T TREE MEDIATING??????????????

MIXED FEELINGS

Squirrelstar. While I'm happy Bramblestar is stepping down, I'm not jazzed about Squirrelstar. I like Squirrelflight, but she's been around a long time now and I want someone newer. To be honest, I'm basically waiting for the older characters to die out at this point, and if Squirrelflight's going to stick around for the next several arcs, she's going to become the next Mistystar.

Sunbeam moving to ThunderClan. While I predicted this would happen, and it's kind of fun for now, it means we now have two perspectives in ThunderClan AGAIN. I am begging warrior cats to let go of ThunderClan. Having two POV characters in the same overused clan is not as fun as they think it is. Also, Sunbeam saying 'Berryheart was right about everything' then immediately changing her mind was kinda disappointing. Let Sunbeam have a villain arc.

[stitchwraith-stingers]

HATER THREAD 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

you gave me 5 ill give you 5 (+ 1 bonus) with fandoms cuz im so fucking boring congrats if you understand something SORRY its not all hating i failed my mission 😰

fnaf:

🔥 i dont like it when people make andrew related to cassidy or renelle or something, theres no reason i just dont get it i guess?? single child energy to me

🔥 i think glam fred could have been a interesting antagonist, not in the way SW had in mind but if he was also into vannys plan and was purposfully too annoyingly cheery and said things that are ominious but sound innocent in the right context, i hope that makes sense lol but im no writer so idk if it would actually be good

warrior cats:

🔥 we NEED to go back to making nightheart designs have more red, not the occasional sploch here or there but like half of him is red, "UGH i have no RED on me im a BLACK CAT! firestar is ORANGE! IM NAMED AFTER A ORANGE CAT WHEN I HAVE BLACK FUR! i should not be named FLAMEPAW :///" he says, half of him being red, he can get the emo bangs as a treat for this

wings of fire:

🔥 not a fan of people drawing skywings with feathers, its wayyyy funnier if theyre the basic bitches of the species that arent too special outside look-wise, i do agree they should live in canyons though itd make scarlets arena look cooler

pokemon:

🔥 i unironically like aromatesse and slurpuff and im tired of pretending i dont

+ 1 bonus (danganronpa)

🔥 i dont get soudam, i just really dont aside that its the basic "a girl exists lets get her out of here and make it yaoi" type of ship deal

[bonefall]

Thoughts on Wasp? I like the idea of cats joining that turn out that the Clans aren’t great… but also it feels… weird? Like it seems like another “lazy cat bad” on some levels. I don’t mind him not joining the Clans but these “outsider learns they’re not fit for the Clans” things always give me a pause from the Erins. Also interested in how you would handle him!

Moonkitti's video on him is really well worded, if you haven't seen it yet. I do think he's different from the way that other books tend to portray outsiders in that they are saying that he was driven away by the xenophobia of the Clans... but.

They still make him extremely disinterested in Clan life while he's in ThunderClan. I think that was a massive blunder to write, if the thing they're trying to say is "XENOPHOBIA PREVENTS OTHERWISE ENTHUSIASTIC MIGRATION"

It would have hit harder if it was Wafflepaw who tried to run to RiverClan, got assaulted, and then didn't want to be a Clan cat anymore.

Wafflepaw WANTS to be a warrior. Wasp did not. It reads more like Wasp getting hate crime'd was a "last straw" more than THE reason why he won't stay.

That's where you're getting that vibe they're saying "lazy cat bad," imo. It's a bit different from usual, but it still seems like the narrative is saying that Wasp really didn't belong here anyway.

(no, Nightheart's moment where he looks at the camera and says "he could have been fine!" doesn't change that they showed, in their text, with the actions they wrote, that Wasp was not enjoying being part of the Clans anyway. If that was their intended thesis, their writing was sloppy.)

It feels especially weird that Bee didn't go with Frostpaw. Bee was the character with a lot more setup and that strange dream. A lot of people were confusing Bee and Wasp when the book first came out and I don't blame them.

Most importantly, you can't talk about Wasp without also mentioning one of THE worst lines I think has ever been written into a Warrior Cats book. The part where tigerHeartstar says, "Those cats who just committed a hate crime were perfectly good people before the evil dictator took over. If we kill the evil dictator, I'm sure they'll CHANGE BACK"

I'm still REELING. Fuck you MEAAAN "CHANGE BACK????" CHANGE BACK? LIKE BEING A BIGOT IS UNCOMFORTABLE SHOES???

CHANGE BACK... me bringing my evil dollars up to the villain store and exchanging it for racism coins... change back...

So when I get around to it, I'm going to evaluate if Wasp is even actually necessary in the form he's in. BB is already about xenophobia and bigotry and the harm it does. Frostpaw has no shortage of examples to witness what Thistle Law is, and what it does to those excluded from Clan Culture.

When I first made my Family Tree for RiverClan, I actually ended up making Splashstar's MOM, Havenpelt, an ex-rogue. I think seeing him order a hate crime against his own mother would be a LOT more impactful here, actually.

What Frostpaw DOES need is allies and friends. I'm already starting by expanding her little "DND Party," a word I'm using to affectionately refer to some cats who will be following her home from her pilgrimage to the Park. 99% chance that Nightheart is going to become a permanent member of this party, joining RiverClan at the end of ASC. Waffle will be another. She'll probably also pick up a Tribe cat.

Wasp will be on this party, but I won't decide what happens to them until I see what that last book has in store. Who knows, he might come back (though I hope not, run as far away from these ghouls as possible Wasp!!)

[songsteps]

okay I broke and read Sky in a day here are my general thoughts

Frostpaw my baby you really are The Only (tm) A Starless Clan protagonist... she's the only one I don't have any particular negative feelings towards and I'm genuinely interested in her storyline, also I love seeing how much it's highlighted that Mothwing is incredibly capable and responsible, like we all knew she was but, makes me happy that some attention seems to be brought to it :)

like man I know she would want to stay a med cat and she DESERVES WHAT SHE WANTS but tbh? I feel she'd make a good leader.... Mothstar

and I think that's all I really have to say that's good

god I hate Nightheart now, like my original interpretation of him in River that he might be good and was relatable was based upon the fact that he seemed a lot more genuinely insecure like thinking he has capabilities but fucking up because of an (irrational) focus on lineage and overthinking shit, and the thing he felt he deserved was more his own identity, which is fair, and I thought they might take a more complex route exploring that BUT NO, like, I feel like the things that get passed around the most that garner hate for him are probably just more shocking and yea could probably be explained away but it doesn't matter cause the biggest problem with him is instead of having like plausibly having a fight with self doubt and stuff like I viewed him in River he's constantly like "well I deserve RESPECT for HOW GREAT I AM and just no one can see that" like dude, shut up where are you getting the idea that you're so great, and I just, completely rescind all my previous opinions on him, even though my inital expectations of his character would've been better for a protagonist that wouldn't have made want to throw my phone at the wall while I read the book. Which I think was why I was much more inclined to interpret him that way initally but like, to anyone still attached to him there is no question at this point this isn't just a case of a young adult having an angst session this is a character thinking he deserves things that he hasn't earned like especially in the case of his warrior duties he has proven he doesn't deserve respect in that regard, outright blames Squirrelflight repeatedly, like it comes down to his self righteousness instead of self questioning you know? that's the thing that is the crux of his shittiness as a person and I understand wanting to cling to an inital interpretation of him being more complex but his ridiculously prominent self righteousness just kills any reasonable interpretation that requires anything but a complete overhaul of his personality. like, I like Crowfeather, I don't like or accept everything he does in canon but there's enough that is not stated to us and enough depth behind the intention of his character that allows some different interpretations of him as someone who can and does eventually choose change without entirely breaking from the story given to us, but god... NIGHTHEART IS NOT IN THAT BOAT

Sunbeam is... okay as a character I guess? I wasn't fond of how she treated Lightleap though I still guess it's an understandable temporary emotion, her taste in toms makes me a lil more hesitant to give her as much slack on that as I might otherwise, but her interactions with her mother Berryheart are interesting, though that is really the only interesting thing in this arc besides what's going on in RiverClan

these books still make me angry, but I do want to see what happens to RiverClan myself, though I can't quite theorize what exactly is going on yet. Berryheart and Sunbeam's conflict is interesting as well, I honestly can't give a shit about anything else like I have so little to say on the plot because I honestly feel like this book didn't really... feel like it added much more to the story

hey! I've got a good idea! only Frostpaw and... I guess Sunbeam (for her interactions w/ her mother) get a POV in the books after this one, Frostpaw gets more chapters though so we can focus on the only plot thread that is significantly interesting

I know it's not gonna happen but it'd make the rest of this arc so much more fucking bearable

[dahliadove]

stuff i was thinking about while reading shadow;

(obvious spoilers)

cloverfoot does NOT deserve this shit. she can't even sleep in the warrior den because she doesn't feel safe with the riverclan warriors (for good reason!), and sunbeam's like "oh that sucks that they're blaming you for rearranging the fuckign shells and feathers on the wall in mistystar's den" like sunbeam? let's maybe focus on cloverfoot's safety?

why did sunbeam keep saying "are you fr"

fuck nightheart... made sunbeam care about him then left. and she goes running after him to thunderclan... she's been through so much recently

did sunbeam dream that silver cat that was mates with nightheart or was that like.. a vision? am i grasping at straws here for nightsun to not be endgame?

splashtail's manipulation is SO GOOD but i can't help but hate him for it

weird how tree is just? not present? same with birchkit.

pissed that dovewing went to visit ivypool and we got no content of that... ivypool just lost bristlefrost, dovewing just lost rowankit. a consolation scene would've been cool to see.

owlnose being temporary leader then fucking off is hella strange. he only made like 2 appearances this book and they were minor. what's going on with him

absolutely hyped for squirrelstar. we've genuinely been waiting so long and i thought bramblestar would be leader forever... him retiring and having squirrelstar is a dream come true i never thought the day would come. i hate the wc forums for being pissed at her for literally 0 reason other than "she appears often" yes she's a former protagonist! that's going to happen! hope this helps 💕💕

my eyes twitched at bumblestripe going "oh...😒 nightheart 😒" then "oh! 😁 dovewing! 😁". not that i like nightheart its just dumb to me that he's hostile to everyone BUT dovewing. get over her creep

the undoing of the demonization that sparkpelt and finchlight went through is heavenly to read thank you cherith baldry

kind of agree with berryheart's group trying to get tigertwo out of riverclan camp... i agree with tigertwo trying to help, not with the endangerment he's putting his clan in. rowankit just died do you seriously want more death

also congrats to havenpelt and sneezecloud love yall

[saffronscales]

anon from earlier, ngl you responded alot more nicely and maturely than i expected, im glad we could come to a nice conclusion here :3 im so used to warrior cats fans going crazy murder mode the moment you disagree w their takes so im sorry if i came off as a little nosy or pushy

i agree nightheart can be annoying as hell at times i just think she is a weird little character and like so pathetic failgirl and i like that abt her.......i dont condone her treatment of sparkpelt or anything tho. i just think shes a unique take on a protagonist esp since the last few wc protags have mostly been "traumatized little baby who sacrifices way too much and is hated by everyone for no reason" and its a nice change to see a character that has problems but way. lesser ones ig and yet they're still pissy abt it

also im a little desperate for cats that can be interpreted as transfem and ARENT fucking weird (thinking abt people who see tigerclawstar as a transgirl and shivering rn). sorry for rambling in your inbox btw

thank you! I’m just glad you were patient with me :3 anyways yea, ok!!! as long as you are like viewing nightheart’s actions with a critical view then I can say just do whatever,,,, nighthearts only just an angsty cat in a book anyways that’s not worth like. harassing people over if that makes sense