#and thus blamed on Jgy

[guqin-and-flute]

Mingjue strikes me as the type of guy to not offer up information about his sexuality/sex life in general but also doesn't consider it something to hide (and just doesn't care enough to.) Partly because he thinks it's stupid that people think it's their business at all and partly because he doesn't see it as shameful. He's got so much other shit going on and he's not gonna live forever, he's definitely not wasting time on worrying what Sect Leader Yao thinks of who he invites into his bed.

But people see him speaking out against Jin Guangshan's degeneration and the general Jin Vibe of opulence and indulgence, they assume that means he classes all """deviant""" sexuality in that category, and his reputation as being so rule and honor code abiding they assume he will agree as passionately with all of society's mores (re: homosexual encounters) and just assume he's strictly straight and discount any rumors that he isn't.

'Sleep with a man? Chifeng-zun? You must be joking.'

Meanwhile Mingjue is like, 'What? Yeah, we did. Can we get back to what we were doing, now? I couldn't give less of a shit and you're wasting my time.'

And still people would be like, 'Man, I don't know where these rumors are coming from!! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯'

[headshaker]

THE GRAND SCHEME.

There are certain things we simply cannot say for certain. How NHS knew foul play was involved in NMJ’s death, how he knew JGY was responsible, how he located NMJ’s scattered corpse — these and so many other questions are left unanswered at the end of the book. NHS isn’t even truly confirmed to be at fault within the narrative. Outside the narrative, yes, we know for certain it was all him, but in the story itself? All we get is a half-baked theory from WWX of which not even he is 100% certain. There’s such a dizzying array of possibilities that I’ve decided not to focus too much on the details. Instead, I intend to paint a broader picture of his end goals, his resources, and his methods.

LET US FIRST LAY A foundation. We can reasonably assume that he was convinced of JGY’s guilt while also being convinced of LXC’s innocence. I would even propose that he had a desire to protect LXC. We can also reasonably assume it took a year or more to put the pieces together. Not only was NHS injured and grieving, but NMJ’s death left an incredible mess that could not be easily remedied. Many other sects, including the highly influential La.nli.ng Jin, would’ve taken this opportunity to swoop down like vultures.

All of this ties NHS’ hands in one way or another. Firstly, even proving his claims would be nigh impossible. Not only are the La.nli.ng Jin the most powerful sect of this period — strong enough to wipe out entire sects for merely disagreeing with them — but the time it would’ve taken NHS to start connecting dots was more than enough for them to cover their tracks. Secondly, the Qi.ng.he Nie under NMJ were strong enough to challenge the La.nli.ng Jin, but due to the nature of NMJ’s death, they are losing allies and hemorrhaging resources as they manage fallout. NHS does not have half the aptitude or reputation at this point that his brother did. No one respects him; he hardly even respects himself. Thirdly, he has people to protect. He is, quite possibly, the last member of his family still living and is the only person upon whom his sect can rely. Furthermore, he is very likely trying to protect LXC and, perhaps, all the Gu.su Lan which means he cannot call on them for support in this matter. And, they are the only people he could call. He is well and truly on his own here. Tangentially related, we can also assume, based on how terrifyingly well-informed JGY is, that he has informants within Qinghe, perhaps even within the Un.cle.an Re.alm. Thus, although NHS must logically have a few people he trusts to carry out certain tasks, he must ultimately conceal the full truth from them. This protects those who are loyal and deceives those who are not.

All of this informs, as well, the scope of NHS’ revenge. It isn’t just about NMJ’s death but also the consequences. The personal grievances between NMJ and JGY cannot be overlooked here, but neither can the political backdrop. Again, NMJ had the power to stand down JGS — was perhaps the only person in this period with that power — and would do so publicly when he felt it necessary. Removing him removed JGS’ greatest obstacle. The manner of NMJ’s death is also important here. Because of one tragic moment, NMJ’s entire reputation along with the reputation of his sect was obliterated. This wasn’t only an attack on NMJ but on his people; it wasn’t only a personal dispute but a political one.

What NHS is avenging isn’t simply his brother but his sect, the people who rely on him, who have suffered not only in the immediate aftermath but in all the years that follow. While the blame for his sect’s decline can certainly be laid at NHS’ feet, it’s a touch more complex than that. He had to make them appear weak, just as he had to make himself appear weak. If he didn’t, there was a risk that they would face the same fate as the Tin.gsh.an He. He had to make the La.nli.ng Jin believe they had won or they would never have survived. Then he took it a step further and let them believe his sect was indebted to them. But, I think the loyalty of the Nie disciples as well as the fact that they are still one of the four great clans even in “decline” indicates that all is not as it appears. NHS is pulling off an incredible balancing act, making them just weak enough and just strong enough to survive while playing off any success as the result of LXC’s and JGY’s support.

But, I digress. The point is is this is about a lot more than losing a brother (though that would be reason enough), and the grievances pile higher as the years pass. Every insult his sect must suffer, every insult he must suffer, as they play this long game is remembered and will be repaid. Although the La.nli.ng Jin are the primary targets of his ire, they are far from the only ones. His total lack of regard for collateral damage throughout the book speaks to that. He doesn’t care if the world burns. To some degree, he wants it to.

So what exactly is he after? Speaking in terms of his goals throughout the book, he is after the ruination of JGY and the La.nli.ng Jin. All that they bought at the expense of his brother’s life and his sect’s prosperity he will rob from them. It’s not about justice. Even an eye for an eye is not enough. Although I am firmly of the opinion that he was improvising more than puppeteering, he still clearly had end goals in mind. He had to rob JGY of all support, turn the world against him, shatter his reputation, and take his life. He also had to ruin the reputation of the La.nli.ng Jin, knock them from their pedestal, and weaken their alliances + prosperity. I think he also wanted to take JGY’s family, anyone that might have been close to him, the way he took that from NHS.

Let’s run down the list.

MXY — I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the person NHS chose as his sacrifice was JGY’s brother. Of course, his knowledge of the necessary ritual and abundance of issues NHS could prey on factored in here, but he could not have been the only candidate in all the world. We know how patient and dedicated NHS is. Although MXY had been kicked out of his sect, he was still JGY’s brother, and a truly complete revenge entails destroying a person’s entire family. Furthermore, any disasters that might have resulted from the ritual would still have reflected on the La.nli.ng Jin.

Q.in Su — Whether NHS intended for her to die is debatable, but he clearly intended for her to be broken and publicly. There was no other reason to deliver that letter during the discussion conference right after the banquet. There was also no other reason to reveal the truth publicly even after her death. JGY’s seemingly perfect marriage was part of his good reputation. Furthermore, Qin Cangye’s support was key in JGY taking power due to him being a close ally of the La.nli.ng Jin. So not only does NHS absolutely obliterate JGY’s (and JGS’) reputation here but he removes one of his key allies and the sect’s key allies, turning him instead into an enemy. His grievance is likely not remedied by JGY’s death.

Lotus Pier Reveal — I’m bumping this one up because it’s tangentially related to the above. He had both Bicao and Sisi publicly reveal JGY’s most scandalous crimes at this time. These are far from his only crimes, but as touched on above, they are the most ruinous to both his reputation and that of the La.nli.ng Jin. The manner of JGS’ death would be difficult enough for people to stomach if he wasn’t JGY’s father, and we see how that causes people to curse JGY even as they also curse the sins of JGS. It also shows how deeply corrupt the La.nli.ng Jin are. JGY did not do that alone; JGS’ own disciples helped him, making their actions doubly grievous. NHS doesn’t just want people to turn on JGY; he wants them to turn on his entire sect. And, they do.

Second Siege — Whether NHS knew JGY would set up the second siege specifically is perhaps debatable, but I have to agree with WWX’s assessment that JGY was intentionally backed into a corner so he would pull something like that. I only think he was hoping JGY would do more to drag his sect down with him. Every action he has taken throughout the book has indicated a clear indifference toward collateral damage. Bystanders be damned, he will have his revenge. He is NOT minimizing casualties at ANY point; if anything, he’s maximizing them. But, I digress. What I’m getting at is he clearly intended for JGY to pull something so terrible it would turn the whole world against him. Reason number one is JGY, now that he knows what’s going on, has too great a chance of salvaging the situation or escaping with his life; NHS can allow neither. Reason number two is to echo NMJ’s death; publicly cause such a disaster that not only destroys his reputation but his sect’s and harms their prosperity. Reason number three is, again, I believe he was hoping his sect would be so enmeshed it would drag them down with them. It is some consolation at least that the La.nli.ng Jin were also deceived and endangered during the siege, meaning JGY has made an enemy of his own people.

Jin Li.ng — This point properly belongs in post-canon discussions, but it was worth pointing out that NHS repeatedly and intentionally endangered him. Much as I would like to say he doesn’t have it out for the kid, he has to have it out for him at least a little. He is JGY’s nephew, a boy he’s raised like a son, and his heir. If something was to happen to him, it would not only take away an important personal relationship + a person who would mourn him when he dies (very important to rob the object of your revenge of mourners), but it would throw the matter of succession within the sect into chaos. We see even in canon that it’s uncertain. JL has become sect leader because he was JGY’s closest blood relative, but his position is precarious. There is no shortage of cousins and seniors vying for control. This is a weakness NHS will exploit. I wouldn't say he wants the boy dead but he definitely doesn’t want him to be successful.

Frankly, there’s so much more to discuss on this topic, but this post is already unwieldy. The tl;dr is NHS does not seek justice; he seeks revenge. Not only for his brother’s death but for his sect’s decline and for the injuries he himself has suffered. And, it is vengeance that will never end. His ultimate goal throughout the book was to take from JGY and the La.nli.ng Jin what they had bought with NMJ’s life: reputation, power, prosperity.

[beedaydreams]

i understand not wanting to see a character you like criticized, even though i think you can totally like antagonist characters even while acknowledging their bad actions

i feel this post is very generalizing, because i personally read a lot of xicheng, and rarely do i come across post canon fics that are specifically jgy bashing. a lot of what i read is jc helping lxc cope with having been a victim of manipulation - by making him understand that it was not his fault for being lied to by jgy.

lxc deserves catharsis from being manipulated and used as a tool in his sworn brothers deaths. he deserves to know that it was not his fault that he didn't notice what jgy was doing secretly. he deserves to not blame himself for jgy's deeds. and jc helping him understand this is not bashing on jgy.

i happen know a lot of the xicheng authors, thus i know that many of them are themselves survivors of toxic relationships. who has the right to deny them to find catharsis through fiction by writing about a character they relate to?

ok so i had this thought after reading other people's thoughts on the ship. but the amount of jiggy-bashing in postcanon xicheng fics makes absolutely no sense, just on a fundamental internal-consistency level?

arguably THE central thesis of postcanon xicheng is that lan xichen and jiang cheng have been through similar experiences: both trusted and were betrayed by a brother-figure, who was then persecuted and killed by the cultivation world, and who is now considered an evil monster by the cultivation world. both characters are credited with and praised for killing this brother figure by the general public, even though their actual feelings on the brother figure are incredibly complex.

regardless of whether you think this thesis is true or not, if you take this thesis to its logical conclusion, then the jiggy-bashing in postcanon xicheng fics makes no sense. jiang cheng rolls up and goes "rip dude your ex sucked shit" and that makes lan xichen happy? that helps lan xichen heal? if lan xichen really is where jiang cheng was after the first siege of the burial mounds 13 years ago, then no way. absolutely not.

after all, if someone had rolled up to jiang cheng during the 13-year timeskip and went "rip dude your ex sucked shit," that would not have made jiang cheng happy in the long run. that would not have helped him heal. jiang cheng was the one actively telling himself that his ex-whatever sucked shit, and it made him miserable. the entire cultivation world was telling jiang cheng that his ex-whatever sucked shit, and it made him miserable! so, if you want the central xicheng thesis of "their experiences parallel each other" to be true, the same reasoning has to also apply here to lan xichen - literally everyone else and their mom is already bashing jiggy, so additional jiggy-bashing is not going to make lan xichen happy in the long run.

in my opinion, you can absolutely make postcanon xicheng work. imo there is absolutely stuff to work with, even before getting into all the hilarious BIL drama. but a postcanon xicheng that heavily features jiggy bashing simply does not make sense.

[plan-d-to-i]

I think way too often about how JL didn’t know how to react to WWX hugging him because WWX was so worried about his wellbeing. Like that’s so messed up and I wanna beat JC and the Jin’s, did anyone actually treat this kid right growing up?

Re THIS post

It's sad that JGY of all ppl was the one who was nicer to him and who JL thought he had a good relationship w ...

He was raised by both Clans :

Silver bells were one of the signature accessories of the Yunmeng Jiang Clan. Jin Ling had been raised by both clans since he was small. He would live at the Lanling Jin Clan’s Jinlin Terrace for a while, then live at the Yunmeng Jiang Clan’s Lotus Pier. Thus, he should have been carrying objects from both clans. As expected, he pulled out a small, simple bell, wearing a complicated expression.

Jin Ling on jc:

Standing to one side, Jin Ling looked at the scene with eyes full of bewilderment. He appeared as though he wanted to say something, but hesitated. Jiang Cheng addressed him harshly. “I’ll deal with you in a moment. Wait here and don’t move!”

From as early as Jin Ling could remember, he had never seen Jiang Cheng’s face make the expression it was currently making. His uncle, who had led the distinguished Yunmeng Jiang Clan alone since the man had been young, had been cold, severe, and gloomy for years and years on end. Not a single lenient or merciful word left Jiang Cheng’s mouth if he could help it, nor was he ever willing to offer charity and kindness. (Chapter 23 fyy)

and these moments that are often glossed over.

Jin Ling on JGY:

Jin Ling had always had a good relationship with this uncle of his. In the past, Jin GuangYao doted on him quite a lot. Right now, he appeared to be as nice as always, but with the way things were, Jin Ling found it difficult to view him in the same light as before.

...

Hearing the barks, Jin Ling suddenly remembered that when Fairy was still a clumsy little puppy that couldn’t even reach his knees, Jin GuangYao was the one who brought it over.

Back then, he was only a few years old. He fought with the other children of Koi Tower, and didn’t feel satisfied even after he won, smashing everything in his room as he bawled his eyes out. None of the maids and servants dared approach him, afraid to be hit.

Grinning, the younger uncle of his snuck inside to ask, “A-Ling, what’s wrong?” He immediately smashed half a dozen vases beside Jin GuangYao’s feet. Jin GuangYao, “Uh-oh, how fierce. I’m so scared.” He shook his head as he left, pretending to be scared.

The second day, Jin Ling refused to go outside or eat anything as he sulked. Jin GuangYao walked around right outside his room. With his back against the door, Jin Ling shouted to be left alone, and suddenly the bark of a puppy came from outside the door.

He opened the door. Half-squatting, Jin GuangYao had in his arms a glistening-black puppy with round, wide eyes. He looked up and smiled, “I found this little thing but I don’t know what to call it. A-Ling, do you want to give it a name?”

The smile was so kind, so genuine that Jin Ling couldn’t believe Jin GuangYao faked it. All of a sudden, tears fell from his eyes again.

Jin Ling had always thought crying was a sign of weakness, treating such an act with contempt. Yet, apart from a flood of tears, there was no other way to release the pain and anger in his heart.

He didn’t know why, but he felt like he couldn’t hate or blame anyone.

These are his thoughts at the Guanyin temple after everything JGY did is revealed. Poor Jin Ling </3

[mostlikelytofangirl]

Honestly, I think one of the main reasons JC antis blame him for so much is because JC blames himself for so much. Especially when it comes to the things Wen Ning and Jin Guangyao said... Neither made their comments in earnest but JC is bad at managing his emotions and reconciling them with the facts.

(the other reasons are the fact that most of MDZS is WWX POV so we don't see Jiang Cheng's side most of the time, many readers overestimating Jiang Cheng's omnipotence and westerners not taking into account cultural context, but those reasons are less funny)

- Regular Anon

That's a interesting argument tbh.

I personally think there are many reasons why haters seem to be fixated on this one particular dude so hard, but there is stuff to analyze in what you propose.

What both WN and JGY said to him during moments of crisis was stuff they both legitimately believed. WN's ire is basically on behalf to the slights committed against WWX, and JGY bc he was a this limits and without any reason to contain his petty bitchiness if JC wanted to land low blows. However, we see these words having a profound effect on JC, so it'd be easy to conclude that it is all bc he too believes those things and feels guilty about it.

There is this thing called "survivor's guilt", in which the surviving party in a tragedy feels guilty for living when others didn't, others who they may even consider more worthy of living than them. With all JC has lost, being continously told that there was someone who was better than him and that he was never going to surpass... well, I think it's not hard to see how some of that would translate into guilt. It's no secret that he harbors some inferiority complex with how he had been compared all his life and fallen short, it's all fertile ground to blaming himself —maybe not necessarily for what happened, but for his inability to stop it or do more: if he would have been stronger, he could have helped protect Lotus Pier, fight the Wens off when he was captured and thus save his and WWX's core; if he would have had a better political standing, he could have protected WWX better, maybe even help the remnants too; if he would have had more power, he could have saved JYL...

He had been told so many times of everything he is not and what he is lacking, that that's everything he focuses on. Not in how he rebuilt his sect from scratch all by himself, how he helped raise JL into the good boi he is, how he became one of the most respected and feared leaders with an active part in keeping the peace during those 13 years.

So, since all the negative things is what JC always has present and what he reacts to, then the audience would too, at face value at least. But since haters have no interest in digging deeper into his character, and would gladly cling to anything that confirms their biases, then why shouldn't they hate him when he hates himself too?

[no--envies]

The destruction of the Tiger Seal and Wei Wuxian’s death

A really popular theory in the fandom is that WWX died destroying the Tiger Seal, either because of an explosion of all the energy it had accumulated or because trying to destroy it affected him to the point that he couldn’t control the resentful energies anymore. This theory often implies the destruction of the Tiger Seal was a relatively fast process and that WWX started to destroy it when the sects besieged the Burial Mounds, because he didn’t want it to fall into the wrong hands.

However, the novel explicitly contradicts this theory:

It wasn’t as though Wei Wuxian, after forging such calamity, had refused to destroy it. However, creating the thing had been difficult enough; destroying it was every bit as difficult, and demanded an incredible amount of his time and energy. Moreover, by then, he already vaguely sensed that his own situation was precarious, and sooner or later, everyone would turn on him. The immense power of the Yin Tiger Tally meant that no one dared touch him while he was wielding it—thus, Wei Wuxian kept it, for the time being. He only split the tally into two, so that anyone attempting to use it would first have to put both pieces together. Furthermore, he decided never to use it without thinking carefully through the consequences.

In all, he only ever used it two times, and both times, it shed rivers of blood. The first was during the Sunshot Campaign, and after the second time, he finally found the determination to destroy it. One half, he completely obliterated. But before he was able to finish disposing of the other, the Siege of the Burial Mounds descended upon him. He had no control over the events that followed.

(Chapter 30, Fan Yiyi translation)

This passage is very clear: WWX had completely destroyed the first half of the Tiger Seal before the siege happened. At the time, he was in the process of destroying the second half, but then he died and couldn’t do anything about it anymore. It’s also stated that destroying the Tiger Seal required an incredible amount of time and energy, which was one of the reasons he hadn’t decided to destroy it earlier.

Given the amount of resentful energy the Tiger Seal contained, it’s not surprising that both creating it and destroying it were such difficult processes. Even a much less powerful object like the bell WWX had made for JL took a long time to create:

Wen Ning, “Young Master, is this what you’ve been making for the past month or so, when you were shutting yourself in the Cave on days upon end?”

Wei WuXian, “That’s right. As long as that nephew of mine carries this bell around, not a single creature whose level is just a bit too low can even think about getting close to him. You can’t touch it. It’ll probably leave you affected for some time as well if you do.”

(Chapter 76, ExR translation)

If a bell that could only protect a person from the weakest creatures took a whole month to create (I assume because a lot of energy needed to be stored in it), how much longer would it take to destroy an immensely powerful artifact like the Tiger Seal, which could even surpass the power of its creator and didn’t recognize a master? We’re talking about something that was forged from a piece of metal that had accumulated resentful energies for centuries and WWX himself admits making it into a usable tool was a long and difficult process. Even destroying just a half probably required a lot of time to gradually dissipate all the resentful energy that was stored in it. Since we know the siege happened three months after the bloodbath of Nightless City - and considering WWX probably had other things to do in the meantime, like strengthening the defenses of the Burial Mounds for the attack he knew would come sooner or later - he had enough time to successfully obliterate one half of the Seal and start destroying the other one. Before he could completely destroy the second half, the sects arrived to besiege him and he had to focus on protecting himself and the Wen remnants.

Moreover, the process of destroying the Tiger Seal didn’t only require a lot of time, but an incredible amount of energy as well. By the time the siege happened, he was probably already exhausted. This would explain why he received a backlash and lost control of his army of corpses, since we know demonic cultivation is affected by the mental state of the one practicing it. Besides, seeing JC - the person who was once like a brother to him - lead the siege meant to kill him and destroy everything he was fighting for didn’t help his mental state at all. All of WWX’s guilt and grief at the time were already a lot to bear, but knowing that his former shidi hated him so much that he took part in the siege as the leader must have shaken him quite a bit. We don't see him sad often, but one of the few times we do is when he gets reminded of JC's role in his death while he's watching a group of kids impersonating them in a game based on the Sunshot Campaign (chapter 32).

I think WWX did what he could to protect the Wen remnants, but his exhaustion combined with his unstable mental state made him lose control of his demonic cultivation and receive a backlash, which led to him being torn to pieces by his own ghost army and dying in a really gruesome way.

The fact that he died because his cultivation method backfired and he was torn to pieces by the corpses he could no longer control is stated in the novel multiple times:

“Rejoice, rejoice! Say, which hero dealt the finishing blow to the Yiling Laozu?”

“Who else could it be? His disciple-brother, Chief Jiang Cheng of the Yunmeng Jiang Sect! [...] Sect Chief Jiang killed his own disciple-brother and destroyed his lair for the good of us all. The Burial Mounds are gone!”

[...]

“But that’s not what I heard. I thought one of his evil tricks backfired and he was shredded to pieces by those ghosts of his. Some say that they bit and tore at him so viciously that by the end of it, his body was no more than a slurry of flesh and bone dust.”

(Chapter 1, Fan Yiyi translation)

After a moment of silence, Wei Wuxian said, “What else have you heard?”

“Jiang Cheng, Clan Chief Jiang, brought people to encircle and besiege the Burial Mounds. He killed you, sir.”

“I have to clarify this. He didn’t kill me. I died because one of my techniques backfired.”

Wen Ning finally lifted his eyes and looked at him directly. “But, Clan Chief Jiang, he clearly—“

“It’s impossible for someone to walk on a lonely, single-log bridge safely and soundly for an entire lifetime. It couldn’t be helped.”

(Chapter 43, Fan Yiyi translation)

Jin GuangYao, “It is true that body sacrifice cannot be proven, but whether or not he is the YiLing Patriarch can. Ever since the YiLing Patriarch had received the cultivation backlash and been torn to dust by his ghouls on the top of the Burial Mounds, his sword was collected by the LanlingJin Sect. But, not long afterwards, the sword sealed itself.”

(Chapter 50, ExR translation)

Some of the things that were said about the first siege - like that JC had dealt the fatal blow to WWX - were untrue, but since the backlash is something WWX himself confirms we can safely take it as a fact. Also, a lot of people were present during WWX’s death and witnessed it with their own eyes, so they knew how he died. JGY, who described WWX’s death as him being “torn to dust by his ghouls”, was probably one of them since the Jin Sect was on the frontline as one of the main forces.

In my opinion, WWX started destroying the Tiger Seal not long after returning to the Burial Mounds. What finally made him decide to eliminate such a dangerous artifact from the world was the bloodbath it had caused at Nightless City. He had originally resolved not to use it unless it was really necessary, but he ended up activating it when he wasn’t clear-headed at all, in a moment of extreme desperation and grief after his whole world had crumbled, his beloved shijie had died and everyone condemned him and blamed him for everything that had happened. He wasn’t proud of all the people he had killed and didn’t want something like that to happen ever again, so he finally resolved to destroy the most powerful weapon he had, which until then he had kept as a deterrent to discourage others from attacking him, since he sensed that sooner or later the cultivation world would turn against him.

He knew perfectly well that destroying the Tiger Seal would leave him in a more vulnerable position (though he still had his demonic cultivation to protect himself and the Wen remnants), but he chose to do it anyway because he knew it was the right thing to do. Such a terrible artifact couldn’t be allowed to fall into the wrong hands under any circumstances, and he knew his own fate was sealed since the sects had already labeled him as the scourge of the cultivation world and sooner or later they would come to besiege him. Instead of perpetuating the cycle of violence, WWX chose to willingly put himself in a more precarious position, but it wasn’t the destruction of the Tiger Seal itself that killed him. It was a series of circumstances that his decision partially contributed to.

[lansplaining]

I've got to say I disagree! while I definitely think Madam Jin in particular was probably making some effort to keep JGY out of the family circle, I also think the specific baggage of Jiang Yanli's upbringing means this is exactly the kind of situation in which she would not intervene. She spent her whole childhood sticking her neck out for the unloved foster brother, and thus she knows that trying to do so again would a) not materially improve anything for either of them and b) turn the Jin parents against both of them and become a new source of conflict in the family. I think she has chosen to keep her head down and her nose out of this particular Jin family drama, and I can't say I blame her given how she grew up

i just can't get over the fact that JGY had more success bonding with Jin Zixun than with Jin Zixuan. literally where do people get the idea he could have been this amazing, loving big brother. he had the chance and super did not take it!!

[vrishchikawrites]

LAN XICHEN AND JIANG CHENG:

JC stans want Jiang Cheng to end up with Lan Xichen because he is the First Jade of Lan, while Lan Wangji, who is Wei Wuxian’s husband, is only Second. For once in his miserable life, Jiang Cheng will get the better end of the deal than Wei Wuxian, right? But the thing is, as far as the narrative goes, nobody can beat Hanguang-jun other than Wei Wuxian- his own brother included. We are repeatedly given evidence that Lan Wangji is stronger than Lan Xichen, is more of an expert at the guqin than Lan Xichen, is more skilled in Clan Techniques than Lan Xichen, is more righteous than Lan Xichen, etc. etc. Nobody but Lan Wangji could have survived the 33 whip lashes, fought 33 well-trained Elders while also protecting his dying beloved, undertaken dangerous night hunts in desolate areas with no expectations of repayment, and end up Hanguang-jun. When one hears of the name ‘Lan’, one thinks of Hanguang-jun, Lan Wangji, the Second Jade of Lan, and then, Lan Xichen, his brother, the First Jade. Lan Wangji did have more freedom than Lan Xichen, but it is not that much more, and thus we can attribute his values and his morals as his own. Where does Xicheng come in? We know that Jiang Cheng does not care about pesky qualities such as honour or integrity, to say nothing of his homophobic tendencies, but if he were to become a “disgusting” cut-sleeve, he would not settle for anything but the best, which Lan Xichen is not. Jiang Cheng is also extremely jealous and vindicative, easy to offend and anger, and can absolutely never handle being below anyone. Lan Xichen might not be as talented as his brother, but he is still leagues better than the “Wielder Of His Own Damn Sword”, Jiang-Zhongzu. They would not mesh well together. But we know all this. Let us talk about Lan Xichen. Rulers should be good to their people and their primary strength should lie in being able to detach themselves from their personal feelings in kingdom-related matters and take a professional approach. In the book’s context, a Sect Leader should be cold and practical in the matters involving the Sect. Jiang Fengmian fails to do this with his wife, and ends up getting most of his Sect killed due to his cowardice. Lan Xichen does this with A-Yao. As Sect Leader, Lan Xichen’s warmth causes less diplomatic incidents, since he is good with pacifying and mollifying prickly Sect Heads, but he can be easily swayed by weakness, real or feigned, and such beliefs work to his disadvantage. One more thing I would like to point out is that Lan Wangji, after losing the love of his life and being whipped 33 times (with a Spiritual Weapon) for treason, only remained in seclusion long enough to heal his body. If he could function in such a painful situation, all the while caring for an orphaned child and watching his brother happily interact with the person most responsible for, why could not Lan Xichen? He wasn’t even physically impaired! Oh boo-hoo, my most trusted friend of 20 years betrayed me and killed my Sworn Brother? Yes! Yes, he did, and it was a most traumatising thing to do, but he did not do it without your own help and encouragement! It is not Lan Xichen’s fault for being taken by a Master Manipulator, of course, but it is his fault for being passive and taking the easy way out 2/3 times in order not to upset his Sworn Brothers and the rest of the elitist Cultivation World! There are metas that state that once Lan Xichen is given confirmation of ill-will and misdeeds, he does not hesitate to choose the path of righteousness and conviction, but it is the time that he takes to obtain such confirmations is what irks me. He makes no moves of his own, does not go out of his way to investigate events he himself was suspicious about until his brother encourages (read: forces by showing unignorable evidence) him to, and spends most of his time after the Siege sitting on his hands (other than rebuilding his Sect, I will give him that) and entertaining A-Yao! *Sigh* This is quite a cruel take on him, and if we view him through the same lens we do

our favourite characters many of his faults will fizzle out quickly, but I just think he should not be let off as scott-free as he currently is being let. If I have misunderstood something, or mentioned anything wrong, please do not hesitate to correct me! It will help with my understanding of his character and help me write better fics.

Dee - This was a submission not an ask - my reply under the cut off

I try not to say much about LXC and maintain a neutral POV on him because he is, from what I read in the novel, a good character. Not perfect and certainly not as wise as he's often made out to be, but good. Honestly, to me he comes across as someone who is somewhat naive, unaware of his own prejudices, but willing to pursue the truth when prompted. He also seems to be a bit stubborn and is very confident in his own judgment. I believe all of that can be attributed to the fact that he's a Sect Heir and a Sect Leader later. He needs to have that solid belief in his judgment to lead.

To me, LWJ and LXC present interesting parallels. Both loved (platonic in LXC's case, love is love) people from lower social classes, both were confronted with somewhat unsavory characteristics. The parallels are very striking, tbh.

LWJ loved a morally strong man - LXC loved a morally weak one.

LWJ's love for WWX enlightened him - LXC's love for JGY blinded him.

LWJ took WWX to task on every mistake - LXC covered up or made excuses for JGY's red flags.

WWX's taught LWJ to challenge and question everything - JGY taught LXC to trust blindly and accept excuses.

LWJ learned to fight, even if it meant disrupting peace - LXC learned to look the other way in order to maintain peace.

It wasn't until LXC was pushed by LWJ and WWX that he took action but he still took action. Arguably, it would've been just as painful for LXC to suspect JGY as it would've been LWJ to suspect WWX. When you love someone and their character sinks to the gutter, the hurt is immeasurable. It is nearly the worst betrayal you can face. I don't blame LXC for wanting to avoid it.

Also, LXC had a lot of reasons to act the way he did. As readers, we have the benefit of hindsight but when people are confronted with difficult situations and insufficient information, they act differently. So yeah, it is a bit dissatisfying that he doesn't get called out for some of this foolishness, but honestly, it is a minor thing.

As for LXC and JC, I agree. It is definitely a way to one-up WWX with the 'better' Lan. We don't really know how skilled LXC is and how he can stand against LWJ or WWX. I'm rather certain he's stronger than JC at any rate. JGY was able to fight and defeat JC but he had to trick both LXC and LWJ into sealing their powers. His cultivation is strong. He's just not as sharp and intelligent as LWJ and WWX are but they're exceptional.

[scaredysap]

Do you think part of the Jiang Sect's reputation for not helping comes from the early days after the war? Since reputation is such a powerful thing and it seems to become fixed pretty quickly in people's minds I tend to think that straight after the war Jiang Cheng didn't have the disciples to spare for any but the worst of night hunts (especially with his head disciple constantly awol) and then by the time they did have the strength people had stopped asking.

I can also imagine that the older sect leaders from smaller surrounding sects might have pushed back against being ordered around by the teen sect leader of a nearly decimated clan, so Jiang Cheng might not have had the same support to lean on as his dad did.

I'm not sure, mostly because none of it is ever specified. However, I don't think the years just after the war were entirely to blame. On the contrary I think initially the Jiang sect might have been riding on the noble ideal of having been rebuilt from nothing; such a story would definitely be one that the common people would eat up and spread around, telling of how heroic the young sect leader was. Of course, JGS and other such sharks wouldn't want the Jiang sect to get too bold but they focused mostly on ruining the reputation between them and WWX to weaken both. And after the siege of Burial Mounds, Jiang Cheng would be regarded as the hero who avenged his family and rid the world of the terrible Yiling Laozu.

Because of all that, I'm more inclined to believe that the reputation of the Jiang sect got worse over the following 13 years. We know that Jiang Cheng becomes more and more angry because of what happened and even more fiercely protective of his own people (so Jiang sect and Jin Ling).

He also starts hunting down stray demonic cultivators and maybe even tortures them to get them to confess. It seems that some of the fear comes from Jiang disciples themselves (this is implied when WWX and LWJ visit Yunping), perhaps those who joined later and have little context for JC's behaviour. Either way, if even the disciples are scared, that would definitely not endear JC to the common people.

The thing with JC's running of the sect is that it doesn't seem like he's having any more trouble with having few men or resources. He and JL had no trouble putting up 400 spiritual nets for a single night hunt, which is said to be a crazy expense. This is why I said in the tags that JC might be following the Jin's example, since we know for a fact due to the novel extras that the Jin were very picky when it came to responding to requests of aid even under JGY's rule.

And furthermore, still in that passage in Yunping, the way it's worded (at least in the English translation, so take this with a grain of salt) makes it seem like such a vast territory being under one single sect is not exactly the norm. JC doesn't seem to delegate any work to others (again, protecting his own territory from outsiders and perceived threats, maybe) so of course he can't get to all the hauntings in the area. Is this him literally not having the time? Is this him choosing which requests to answer depending on how profitable they are? Who knows!

But there is his jibe at LWJ early in the novel, when JC mocks him for truly "being where the chaos is". It almost seems like JC is still convinced LWJ either wants to show off or finds his answering every request for help... disingenuous or maybe even naive. This exchange makes me lean more towards JC specifically choosing to only intervene when things get truly dire as a form of... I'm trying so hard to avoid saying he turns his nose up and doesn't deem the lower requests something that he should concern himself with. But that's how it feels!

It is undeniable that JC is a very prideful person. He tends to think that he needs to elevate himself to not get trampled by the other big sects, which is why he's always more worried about doing what is proper/advantageous as opposed to WWX's doing what is righteous. Perhaps he considers answering any request that a rogue cultivator could handle something that would make his great sect look humble and thus refuses to do so.

In the end, I can't give you any firm answer.

tl;dr: Jiang Sect was in a tough spot after the war but I think the bad rep came later due to JC's attitude and tendency to only concern himself with other great sects instead of what the common people might think.

[coffintownkids]

I had the rare occurrence of having the house to myself for the entire day yesterday, which hasn’t happened since...last September maybe?

Which means I got to bang out translating all of Ch.34 while I was distraction-free!

This chapter had lots of fun moments with the junior disciples. To set the scene, WWX and LWJ come across the juniors in Coffin Town and the kids are freaked out by the sound of a bamboo pole drumming against the ground.

Long Post Ahead!

“That was It again…It really has been following us this whole time!”

Wèi Wúxiàn said, “It’s been following you?”

Lán Sīzhuī said, “After we entered the town, the fog was so heavy that we were worried about being separated. We gathered closer when suddenly, we could hear that noise. At the time, it wasn’t so fast. One sound after another rang our very slowly. Ahead in the white mist, we saw a hazy, short silhouette slowly walking by. We chased after it, but it disappeared. After that, the sound kept following us.”

Wèi Wúxiàn said, “How short was it?”

Lán Sīzhuī gestured around his own chest, “It was rather short and very petite.”

I guess that very technically counts as the first time Ā-Qìng gets described! She’s so little!!!

Jīn Líng said, “I knew I should have brought Fairy with me. This is all your damn donkey’s fault.”

Just hearing the dog’s name had chills running up Wèi Wúxiàn’s back while he listened to Lán Jǐngyí say, “We haven’t even blamed your dog! It bit first so Little Apple just kicked out at it. Whose fault is that? Anyway, now neither of them can move.”

Wèi Wúxiàn said, “What?! My Little Apple got bit by a dog?!”

Jīn Líng, “How can you compare that donkey to my Spirit Dog? Fairy was given to me by my xiǎo-shūshu. If something were to happen to it, 10,000 donkeys still wouldn’t be enough compensation!”

Wèi Wúxiàn started spouting nonsense, “Don’t rub Liǎnfang-Zūn in people’s faces. My Little Apple was also a mount given to me by Hánguāng-Jūn. How could you bring Little Apple down the mountain for a Night Hunt? You also let it get hurt?!”

All the junior House of Lán disciples spoke in unison, “Liar!” They would absolutely never believe that with Hánguāng-Jūn having such good taste, that he would give such a mount to someone. Even though Lán Wàngjī didn’t refute it, they firmly refused to believe it.

Ha! Ain’t nobody buying what WWX is selling. Also, JL refers to JGY as xiǎo-shūshu. It means that JGY is his father’s youngest brother (aka JL does not consider MXY to be his uncle, despite him also being his father’s half-brother and younger than JGY!) LSZ, however, is a good boy and explains the situation-the elders evicted Little Apple for being too noisy in Cloud Recesses :P

Jīn Líng also didn’t believe that he had been given the donkey by Lán Wàngjī, “I hate looking at that donkey. Why is it even called Little Apple? It’s so goddamn stupid!”

Lán Jǐngyí was still thinking about it. If it really had been given by Hánguāng-Jūn, then this wasn’t good and he promptly spoke up for it, “What’s wrong with Little Apple. It loves to eat apples, so it’s called Little Apple. It’s that simple. The name is miles better than you naming your fat dog Fairy.”

Jīn Líng, “How is Fairy fat?! Go ahead and try to find a Spirit Dog that’s in better shape…”

All of a sudden, there was absolute silence.

After some time, Wèi Wúxiàn said, “Is anybody here?”

From nearby came “uhhhhh” and “wahhhh” to indicate where they were. Lán Wàngjī coolly said, “They were causing a commotion.”

…He actually cast the Mute Spell on all of them at once. Wèi Wúxiàn couldn’t help touching his own lips and felt extremely lucky.

LWJ ain’t got time for your shit lol. I also continue to waffle with whether I’m calling it the “Mute Spell” or “Silence Spell” or “Gag Spell” etc etc etc. It’s another case of me being an overly nitpicky overthinker! I’ve mentioned it before, but I figured it’s worth sharing again that it’s written as 禁言. Very technically, it means “speech is banned/prohibited.” which ties into all of the Lán rules that also use 禁 when saying something is prohibited. I’ve been wanting to convey that, plus I’ve seen it used in a more modern sense to “mute” sound. Also 禁言令 is used as “gag order.” So, like, I know it’s one of those things that doesn’t need to be changed, yet here we are.

Naturally, here’s where some zombies show up. LWJ gets rid of a bunch, but...

Another House’s disciple said, “It looks like there’s more zombies!”

“Where is it? I didn’t hear any footsteps?”

“It sounded like strange breathing to me…” The young man realized how ridiculous that was once he finished saying it and shut up out of embarrassment. Another boy said, “I’m done with you. You heard them breathing. Zombies are dead. How could you possibly hear them breathing?”

Breathing, huh?

LWJ decapitates one and...its body spews out a bunch of powder! And then the gravedigger that tried to steal the torso earlier in the book shows up!!! So while he and LWJ start fighting, WWX starts freaking out.

The current situation did not allow for optimism. The gravedigger’s sword was shrouded in black mist, its sword aura couldn’t shine through it, and the white fog was keeping him quite well-hidden. The sword aura from Lán Wàngjī’s Bìchén, however, could not be blocked. He was the light and the enemy was the dark. His opponent’s cultivation was not lacking and the Lán Sect of Gūsū’s swordsmanship was well-known to him. On top of that, they were both fighting equally blind in the fog. He could do so without having any concern, while Lán Wàngjī had to be careful that he didn’t accidentally injury his own allies. It honestly put him at a major disadvantage. Wèi Wúxiàn heard the sounds of their blades a few times and his heart clenched. He blurted out, “Lán Zhàn? Are you injured?!”

There was a slightly muffled sound in the distance, as if someone had received a critical injury. However, it clearly wasn’t Lán Wàngjī’s voice.

Lán Wàngjī said, “Of course not.”

Wèi Wúxiàn smiled, “Of course!”

I love LWJ being pissy over the implication that some scrub could have the potential to injure him. Sorry, Sū Shè. You’re not qualified to injure him, either.

Since WWX isn’t needed there, he starts checking on the kids that inhaled the powder.

Wèi Wúxiàn went to Lán Jǐngyí and touched his forehead. He had a slight fever. He did the same for the others that had inhaled the powder that had gushed out of the zombies. They were in the same state. He lifted Lán Jǐngyí’s eyelids and said, “Stick out your tongue and let me take a look. Ahh.”

Lán Jǐngyí, “Ahh.”

Wèi Wúxiàn, “Okay. Congratulations, you’ve been hit with corpse poisoning.”

Jīn Líng, “How is that something worth being congratulated for?!”

Wèi Wúxiàn said, “Because it’s the sort of life experience that you’ll tell stories about when you’re older.”

Life advice according to WWX: get poisoned for the lulz.

Meanwhile, poor LSZ’s little heart can’t take this.

Lán Sīzhuī was worried sick, “Mò-gōngzǐ, will anything happen to them?”

Wèi Wúxiàn said, “They’ll be fine for now. However, if we wait for their blood to circulate through their bodies and reach their hearts, we won’t be able to help them.”

Lán Sīzhuī said, “What…what will that do?”

Wèi Wúxiàn said, “Whatever happens to corpses is what will happen to all of you. If you’re lucky, you’ll just rot badly. If you’re not, you’ll turn into a long-haired jiāngshī and from then on, you’ll only be able to get around by hopping.”

All of the poisoned disciples gasped at the same time.

Wèi Wúxiàn said, “Want to cure it?”

They all nodded at once. Wèi Wúxiàn said, “If you want it cured, listen well. From now on, you’re going to have to obediently listen to everything I tell you. Every one of you has to listen to me.”

WWX is so goddamn dramatic. I love it! Also, I think it’s the first mention of jiāngshī in the novel. Jiāngshī (僵尸) literally means “stiff corpse” and are a folktale creature in China. They’re something of a cross between a zombie and a vampire. The legend goes that because they’re dead and rigor mortis has set in, their bodies are stiff and rigid. Thus, they can’t bend their legs and can only move by hopping instead of walking. Since it’s a pretty Chinese-specific myth, I’m opting to leave the term untranslated.

WWX’s first order is for the healthy disciples to carry the poisoned ones. And, of course, despite them all agreeing to do what they’re told, LJY has something to say about it.

Lán Jǐngyí said, “I can walk. Why do I have to be carried?”

Wèi Wúxiàn said, “Gēgē, if you’re frolicking around, your blood will flow that much faster and that much harder, which means it will reach your heart that much faster. Therefore, you need to limit your movements. It would be best if you didn’t move at all.”

WWX sarcastically calling him gēgē sent me.

And then:

One of them being carried by someone from his sect muttered, “The zombie that just sprayed the poisoned powder really had been breathing.”

The boy carrying him was gasping for breath as he complained, “I already told you the one that was breathing had to be a live person.”

I’m sure that’s not foreshadowing anything terrible.

Meanwhile, LSZ does not complain and just asks what WWX would like them to do next.

The one that was the most well-behaved, most obedient, and made him worry the least was Lán Sīzhuī.

LSZ is the bestest boy!

Next, WWX does order them to go door-knocking. Keep in mind that they have yet to come across anyone in the town except zombies and the gravedigger.

Jīn Líng put in quite the effort and banged on the door for a long time, but no response came from inside, “It doesn’t seem like there’s anybody in there. We’re going in, right?”

Wèi Wúxiàn’s voice floated over from far away, “Who said you could go in when there’s nobody there? Keep knocking. We’ll go in a building that has someone occupying it.”

Jīn Líng said, “Are you still trying to find people?”

Wèi Wúxiàn said, “Yes. Knock properly. You were knocking too hard just now. Don’t be so rude.”

Jīn Líng was so angry that he nearly kicked the wooden door in. In the end, he nevertheless…relentlessly stomped his feet against the ground.

Each building on the main road all kept their doors firmly shut. No matter how much they knocked, they remained looming and unmoving. The more Jīn Líng knocked, the more jittery he became. But he was at least being a little more gentle about it.

JL really is his father’s rude-ass son!

They do eventually find a shop with a creepy old woman, though.

“Shopkeep, when we first arrived in your land, the fog was too thick and we lost our way. We’ve walked for quite a long time and have grown somewhat weary. Would it be possible for us to make use of your shop and rest for a while?”

The strange voice said, “My shop isn’t meant for people to use as a rest stop.”

Wèi Wúxiàn didn’t seem to find this all that out of the ordinary and his expression was the same as usual, “But there is no other shop around in this fine place that still has someone occupying it. Shopkeep, are you truly unwilling to make things easier for us? We’ll reward you handsomely.”

Jīn Líng couldn’t stop himself from saying, “Where did you get the money to reward them handsomely with? Let me be the first to tell you I won’t be lending you any.”

Wèi Wúxiàn shook the dainty little money pouch in front of his face, “Look. What is this?” Lán Jǐngyí was terribly alarmed, “You really have some nerve! That’s Hánguāng-Jūn’s!”

Ahhh...LJY continues to be scandalized on LWJ’s behalf.

Although the old lady was hunchbacked and seemed quite elderly at first glance, she actually didn’t really have any wrinkles or age spots. One could say that she could pass for middle-aged. She opened the door and stepped aside. It looked like she was willing to let them go inside.

It came as a major surprise to Jīn Líng and he softly said, “She’s actually really willing to let people inside?”

Wèi Wúxiàn also spoke softly, “Of course. I also stuck my foot in the doorway, so she can’t close the door even if she wanted to. If she wouldn’t let us in, I would have just kicked the door in.”

Jīn Líng, “……”

WWX: *also rude*

JL: *shocked Pikachu face*

[hamliet]

Am I My Brother’s Keeper?: Nie Mingjue and Jiang Cheng

Or, how the two most virulent Wen-haters in the story tragically mirror each other in far more ways than just their issues with the Wens. 

I’ve written about MDZS’s use of character trios as a narrative structure before (here and here). In this meta I’m going to talk about the main three and the Venerated Triad. I’ve also written before about how Lan Xichen and Jin Guangyao’s relationship (however you interpret it) parallels Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian’s, with Lan Xichen as a strong Lan Wangji foil (fitting, as they are the “Twin Jades”), and Jin Guangyao as a strong Wei Wuxian foil (as Wei Wuxian himself acknowledges in the story’s final chapter). So let’s talk about the third member of these trios: Nie Mingjue and Jiang Cheng, who also closely foil each other... in particular, through their respective relationships with Jin Guangyao and Wei Wuxian. 

But wait, you say. Jin Guangyao killed Nie Mingjue, which parallels Jiang Cheng killing Wei Wuxian!

True. There are some parallels between Jiang Cheng and Jin Guangyao (such as JC killing WWX to avenge JYL, even though she wouldn’t have wanted that, and JGY doing it when NMJ hurts NHS, even though NHS adored NMJ), as well as between Chengxian and Xiyao, but this is not a meta about those specifically. 

Nie Mingjue tried to kill Jin Guangyao in life (twice), and actually does do so in the end, and Jiang Cheng helped kill Wei Wuxian even if he did not do it directly. The reason both Nie Mingjue and Jiang Cheng were able to treat their brothers like this was because of their immense privilege, the privilege neither acknowledge until it is time to weaponize it. In those moments, both chose not to empathize but to see their brothers as an “other” instead of as someone they loved (and I do think both Nie Mingjue and Jiang Cheng loved Jin Guangyao and Wei Wuxian in a realistic, flawed way). In the otherizing of their brothers, both Nie Mingjue and Jiang Cheng put on robes displaying society’s flaws as blatantly as Sect Leader Yao does, but with a lot more humanity than the flat, static Sect Leader Yao. Thus, MXTX tells us we cannot even “other” society as a whole. 

If this sounds like I’m hating on either character, I’m really not intending to. They’re great characters and I enjoy both of them (Jiang Cheng’s one of my very favorites), but they’re flawed, and in fact that’s the whole reason I like them. But I do admit this essay will be scathing to an extent; just know it doesn’t touch on my whole opinion of their characters, and isn’t meant to excuse Wei Wuxian (who had a savior complex) and Jin Guangyao (who sought society’s approval to his own doom); I’ve just previously excoriated those two.

I. Defining Justice as Trauma 

Nie Mingjue and Jiang Cheng both lost their fathers to Wen Ruohan (as did the Lan brothers), and both vowed to wipe out the Wens as a result. However, both of them fail to think about the Wens as people, and wind up, well, becoming eerily similar to the worst Wens.

Jiang Cheng has lived through the pain of losing everything (status, family, home) and he not only refuses compassion for the two Wens who saved him so that he could fight to get those things back, but inflicts the same traumas on them. In fact, Jiang Cheng’s reaction to Wen Qing’s predicament post-Sunshot campaign is paralleled explicitly with Nie Mingjue’s:

Jiang Cheng’s brows were knitted. He rubbed the vein that throbbed at his temple and soundlessly took in a deep breath, “… I apologize to all of the Sect Leaders. Everyone, I’m afraid you don’t know that the Wen cultivator whom Wei WuXian wanted to save was called Wen Ning. We owe him and his sister Wen Qing gratitude for what happened during the Sunshot Campaign.”

Nie MingJue, “You owe them gratitude? Isn’t the QishanWen Sect the ones who caused the YunmengJiang Sect’s annihilation?”

...

Lan XiChen responded a moment later, “I have heard of Wen Qing’s name a few of times. I do not remember her having participated in any of the Sunshot Campaign’s crimes.”

Nie MingJue, “But she’s never stopped them either.”

Lan XiChen, “Wen Qing was one of Wen RuoHan’s most trusted people. How could she have stopped them?”

Nie MingJue spoke coldly, “If she responded with only silence and not opposition when the Wen Sect was causing mayhem, it’s the same as indifference. She shouldn’t have been so disillusioned as to hope that she could be treated with respect when the Wen Sect was doing evil and be unwilling to suffer the consequences and pay the price when the Wen Sect was wiped out.”

Lan XiChen knew that because of what happened to his father, Nie MingJue abhorred Wen-dogs more than anything, especially with how intolerable he was toward evil. Lan XiChen didn’t say anything else.

There’s a lot of irony in this. Wen Qing didn’t speak up because she wanted to protect her little brother--something Nie Mingjue should have been able to relate to, considering he sent Huaisang to safety in the Cloud Recesses during the war. Also, I mean, Nie Mingjue, you didn’t exactly rise up against Wen Ruohan until you knew you had the forces to win. He likely spent several years in begrudging deference to him, even sending Nie Huaisang along as tribute when Wen Chao demanded it. Jiang Cheng starts to do the right thing in this scene  by speaking honestly about Wen Qing, but then Nie Mingjue reminds him of society and propriety, and Jiang Cheng  backs down, crushed under society again. Both of them commit sins of omission, in that they stand back and allow society to belittle and vilify people.

The “sins of omission” is a motif that continues in both Nie Mingjue’s and Jiang Cheng’s arcs. For example, Jiang Cheng stood by to let Mianmian be brutally killed in the cave of the Xuanwu of Slaughter, and even stood by to let Lan Wangji and Jin Zixuan die too as they protected her. He goes on to blame Wei Wuxian for the deaths of his family because of Wei Wuxian saving them. Nie Mingjue keeps the truth about the saber spirit from Nie Huaisang, and additionally, the very same conversation about Wen Qing referenced above, Nie Mingjue is directly stated to know Jin Guangyao is lying to help his father, and he says nothing at all even though Wei Wuxian’s life hung in the balance. (It then karmically backfires on Jin Guangyao).

Jin GuangYao came to save the day, exclaiming, “Really? That day, Young Master Wei busted into Koi Tower with such force. He said too many things, one more shocking than the next. Perhaps he said a few things that were along those lines. I can’t remember them either.”

... As soon as he heard it, Nie MingJue knew that he was fibbing on purpose, frowning slightly.

...

One of the sect leaders added, “...Excuse my bluntness, but he’s the son of a servant. How could the son of a servant be so arrogant?”

With him having brought up the ‘son of a servant’, naturally there’d be some who connected it to the ‘son of a prostitute’ standing in the hall. Jin GuangYao clearly noticed the unkind stares. 

While Nie Mingjue is quick to accuse Wen Qing for her inaction but languid with his own, this isn’t exactly unique. He also is quick to accuse Jin Guangyao of standing by as Jin Guangshan manipulates to acquit Xue Yang for his crimes against the Chang Clan. (I’m not defending Jin Guangshan or Jin Guangyao in this.) How dare they stand there and not argue for justice? 

In spite of Nie MingJue being a junior to Jin GuangShan, he conducted himself in a strict manner and refused to tolerate Xue Yang no matter what. With an angry lecture, Jin GuangShan was left with no words and a great deal of embarrassment. Nie MingJue, as the irritable person he was, unsheathed his saber on the spot with the intention of killing Xue Yang. Even when his sworn younger brother LianFang-Zun, Jin GuangYao, attempted to ease the situation, he ordered him to leave. After a harsh scolding, Jin GuangYao hid behind Lan XiChen, not daring to say anything else. In the end, the LanlingJin Sect could only give in.

But, Nie Mingjue never offers a critique of Jin Guangshan when Jin Guangshan lied to Nie Mingjue’s face about Meng Yao. He discovered that Jin Guangyao’s stepmother is routinely beating him, and Nie Mingjue does nothing. Even if his hands were tied, if he really cared about doing the right thing, why didn’t he intervene somehow, some way, for his brother? If he really cared about holding people responsible for their actions, about making sure justice was served above everything else, why is it that the only person he consistently holds accountable is Jin Guangyao?

Could it be that, much like society, what Nie Mingjue was angry about was not injustice, but actually his hurting self? His hurt pride, his hurt child self still reeling from the cruel way Wen Ruohan betrayed his father and left him to die an agonizing death?

Likewise, Jiang Cheng knows, when he leads the siege at the Burial Mounds against the Wens, that no Wen there is dangerous. They are all elderly or children, not soldiers. He knows even that his sister died saving Wei Wuxian’s life, but chooses to ignore her wishes to satiate his own anger and the inner child inside of him still crying in loneliness. No one had ever chosen Jiang Cheng: his mother viewed him as a disappointment, and his father preferred Wei Wuxian, but Wei Wuxian promised to stick by Jiang Cheng no matter what. When Wei Wuxian breaks this promise, Jiang Cheng never gets over this, and carries out revenge on him for choosing actual justice over staying close to Jiang Cheng (looking back, this adds a symbolic irony to Jiang Cheng refusing to intervene and save Lan Wangji and Jin Zixuan in the cave: they are both the people who will be his siblings’ spouses).

But the sad reality is, it’s a false dichotomy. Wei Wuxian did not choose the Wens over Jiang Cheng. Jiang Cheng, like society, chose society and conformity over Wei Wuxian.

I’ve said it before, but while Jin Guangyao isn’t correct that the siege on the Burial Mounds is “all” Jiang Cheng’s fault, he’s not wrong when he makes this point:

“But what you have to understand is that, for what happened to Young Master Wei in the end, you are responsible too and in fact, you are very much so. Why did so many people crusade against the YiLing Patriarch? Why did they shout their support, no matter if they were involved or not? Why was he one-sidedly condemned by so many? Was it really their sense of justice? Of course not. A part of the reason is you.”

...

“… Back then, the LanlingJin Sect, the QingheNie Sect, and the GusuLan Sect had already finished fighting over the biggest share. The rest could only get some small shrimps. You, on the other hand, had just rebuilt Lotus Pier and behind you was the YiLing Patriarch, Wei WuXian, the danger of whom was immeasurable. Do you think the other sects would like to see a young sect leader who was so advantaged? Luckily, you didn’t seem to be on good terms with your shixiong, and since everyone thought there was an opportunity, of course they’d add fuels to your fire if they could. No matter what, to weaken the YunmengJiang Sect was to strengthen themselves. Sect Leader Jiang, if only your attitude towards your shixiong was just a bit better, showing everyone that your bond was too strong to be broken for them to have a chance, or if you exhibited just a bit more tolerance after what happened, things wouldn’t have become what they were. Oh, speaking of it, you were also a main force of the siege at Burial Mound…”

II. Privilege 

The main villain of all of MXTX’s novels is privilege (I’ve touched on this here and here and here). Unfortunately, both Jiang Cheng and Nie Mingjue are heavily infected with it, and it’s partially why they treat others as they do. 

Jiang Cheng speaks negatively of Mianmian in chapter 56, noting that she’s probably just the daughter of a servant. When Wei Wuxian challenges this by pointing out he is also the son of a servant, Jiang Cheng expresses that Wei Wuxian is somehow different (and to be fair, he is indeed treated with more respect because of Jiang Fengmian’s background with Wei Wuxian’s mother), but the implication is also classist. Ironically, again, when Jiang Cheng will not speak up for Wei Wuxian or Wen Qing during that same conversation referenced earlier, Mianmian does; though Nie Mingjue expresses admiration of her for doing so, he does not do the same. 

Additionally, Jiang Cheng says the following about Jin Guangyao:

Wei WuXian, “Isn’t Jin GuangYao here now? Jin GuangYao seems so much better than him.”

Jiang Cheng... “So what, if he’s better? No matter how much better he is, no matter how clever, he could only be a servant who greets the guests. That’s all there is to his life. He can’t compare with Jin ZiXuan.”

This pretty much sums up how society treats Jin Guangyao, and Jiang Cheng doesn’t think to question it. Wei Wuxian, on the other hand, points to Jin Guangyao’s character, which at that point looked decent (even if... later... sigh). Additionally, it’s hard not to see this as a commentary on how people think Wei Wuxian should be acting. Even though Jiang Cheng is, er, wrong about how far Jin Guangyao can rise, he contrasts with Jin Guangyao in how Jin Guangyao builds the lookout towers to provide justice for the common people, while Jiang Cheng encourages Jin Ling’s initially snobbish behavior (leaving common people in traps).

Not only that, but Jiang Cheng routinely commits atrocities under his protection as a sect leader. He’s described as having whipped the flesh off the backs of people accused of demonic cultivation, and supposedly no one arrested for that survived his tortures (ironically, Wen Ruohan is also known for torture). As someone pointed out once, the people who would turn to demonic cultivation are likely those unable to form golden cores (Wei Wuxian), or those taken in as disciples too late/too untalented to do so (Mo Xuanyu); Xue Yang was also taken in late as a disciple, but is noted to be unusually talented. The interesting thing is that all three of these people are from impoverished, humble origins. Thus it’s very likely the people Jiang Cheng was arresting and torturing to death were not wealthy cultivators (not to mention other sects would complain if so), but common folk. 

As for Nie Mingjue, Jin Guangyao goes further than Wei Wuxian and directly attempts to challenge Nie Mingjue to acknowledge his privilege with brutal honesty on his own part, only for it to go... poorly.

Nie MingJue, “There’s no need for explanations. Come back to me with Xue Yang’s head in your hand.”

Jin GuangYao still wanted to speak, but Nie MingJue had already lost all patience, “Meng Yao, don’t speak such pretentious words in front of me. Your whole thing stopped working on me since a long time ago!”

Within a second, a few degrees of unease flashed over Jin GuangYao’s face, as though someone with an unmentionable illness was suddenly exposed in the public. There was nowhere for him to hide.

He spoke, “My whole thing? Which whole thing? Brother, you’ve always yelled at me for calculating people and being too dishonorable. You say that you’re a proud, righteous person, that you aren’t afraid of anything, that propen men shouldn’t need to play with schemes. That’s fine. Your background is noble and your cultivation is high. But what about me? Am I the same as you? First, my cultivation isn’t as firm as yours. Ever since I was born, has anyone taught me? And second, I have no prominent background. Do you think that I’m in a steady position, here at the LanlingJin Sect? Do you think that I can rise into power the moment Jin ZiXuan dies? Jin GuangShan would rather bring another illegitimate child back than want me to succeed him! You think that I should be afraid of nothing? Well I’m afraid of everything, even other people! He whose stomach is full believes not him who is starving.”

Nie MingJue replied coldly, “In the end, all you mean is that you don’t want to kill Xue Yang, that you don’t want your position at the LanlingJin Sect to waver.”

Jin GuangYao, “Of course I don’t!”

He looked up, unknown fires dancing within his eyes, “But, Brother, I have always wanted to ask you something—the lives under your hands are in any regard more than those under mine, so why is it that I only killed a few cultivators out of desperation and you keep on bringing it up, even until now?”

Nie MingJue was so enraged that he began to laugh, “Good! I’ll give you my answer. Countless souls who have fallen under my saber, but I’ve never killed out of my own desires, much less to climb up the ladder!”

Jin GuangYao, “Brother, I understand what you mean. Are you saying that all of the people you killed deserved their deaths?”

With courage gathered from nowhere, he laughed and walked a few steps closer to Nie MingJue. His voice raised as well, asking in an almost aggressive manner, “Then, may I ask, just how do you decide if someone deserves death? Are your standards absolutely correct? If I kill one but save hundreds, would the good outweigh the bad, or would I still deserve death? To do great things, sacrifices must happen.”

Nie MingJue, “Then why don’t you sacrifice yourself? Are you any nobler than them? Are you any different from them?”

Jin GuangYao stared at him. A moment later, as though he had finally either decided on something or given up on something, he replied calmly, “Yes.”

He looked up. In his expression were some of pride, some of calmness, and some of a faint insanity, “I and they, of course we are different!”

Nie MingJue was infuriated by his words and his expression.

He raised his foot. Yet, Jin GuangYao neither avoided nor took defense. The kick landed right on him, and again he rolled like a pebble down Carp Tower.

Nie Mingjue, here, is being compared to two other people: the man who kicked Meng Yao down the stairs at a brothel as the man dragged Meng Shi outside naked to humiliate her, and with Jin Guangshan--the very person Nie Mingjue’s enraged with--by doing the same thing: kicking someone he views as lower than himself down the stairs. Instead of addressing the actual problem (Jin Guangshan), he finds a scapegoat. It’s not a good look. All three of these instances are linked with society standing by and allowing it to happen, with a few exceptions: Sisi intervenes with Meng Shi, and Lan Xichen intervenes to stop Nie Mingjue from killing Jin Guangyao. 

Nie Mingjue never had to kill to climb the ladder within his sect. He did have to kill to climb the ladder in the cultivational world--and he actually did so, through killing the Wens. Yes, I know Nie Mingjue killed the Wens because he wanted revenge for his father and protection for himself and his brother, but the problem is... that’s exactly what motivated Jin Guangyao: protection. Jin Guangyao just had more to fear than Nie Mingjue.

The irony of the above scene that Jin Guangyao knows killing is wrong, but it’s how to survive in this world, so he does it anyways. Nie Mingjue thinks the problem of someone thinking they are entitled to kill can be solved by killing the one who says such a thing, because he’s entitled to kill someone who thinks they’re entitled to kill-- You get the point.

That sad thing is that being shoved down the stairs doesn’t even end that scene. Nie Mingjue directly attempts to murder Jin Guangyao:

Just as Nie MingJue unsheathed his saber, Lan XiChen happened to leave the palace to see what was going on, concerned after having waited for long. Seeing the situation before him, he unsheathed Shuoyue as well, “What happened, this time?”

...

Nie MingJue, “... I know what I’m doing. He’s beyond hope. If these keeps on going, he’ll do the world harm for sure. The earlier he’s killed, the earlier we can relax!”

This does not at all justifying Jin Guangyao’s subsequent murder of him, but again, Jin Guangyao kills to protect himself, and he’s not without cause for fear of his life (this does not justify, because neither is Nie Mingjue entirely without cause, but people have gotta acknowledge that reality). 

III. Reasons to Kill

I often see Nie Mingjue held up as someone who judged people based on their actions and was countercultural in that he was willing to stand up to Jin Guangshan when Jin Guangshan wanted to acquit Xue Yang of slaughtering the Chang Clan. However, this is decidedly not the case. Nie Mingjue is very much acting within society’s principals here (calling someone else out is hardly unique or noble: see, Su She, Jin Zixun, etc.) Nie Mingjue stood up to Jin Guangshan then because the crime was so severe he knew he might actually be able to win; otherwise, he let Jin Guangshan do as he wished. 

To illustrate this, I’ll share the  piping hot tea a commentator spilled on one of my fics recently, because she says it perfectly:

She isn’t wrong. You can hold Xue Yang--and Jin Guangyao and Wei Wuxian, for that matter--responsible for their actions and also point out the hypocrisy of a society that holds to ideals of how people behave, yet is constantly making exceptions for themselves. Nie Mingjue does just this by demanding Xue Yang’s head as a price for not killing his own sworn brother. Jiang Cheng does just this by murdering the older, helpless Wens at the Burial Mounds, and turning his back on the Wens who saved Jiang Cheng’s own life.

Why do these characters kill?

Nie Mingjue and Jiang Cheng killed out of revenge to honor their families and save themselves.

Jin Guangyao killed to get his father to acknowledge him as his son, and then in revenge when he realized he never would, and to save himself.

Wei Wuxian killed out of revenge and then out of despair--really, revenge against the whole cultivational world that had set him up for failure no matter what he did.

Xue Yang killed out of revenge for his little finger.

What do all of these have in common? They reveal what each person prized.

Jiang Cheng and Nie Mingjue prized the honor of their culture and of society.

Wei Wuxian prized his loved ones.

Jin Guangyao prized himself as his father’s son, a sort of combination of JC/NMJ’s status love and WWX’s wanting to be loved.

Xue Yang prized his body.

Xue Yang seems condemnable on paper, but let’s look at this a little deeper: what else did Xue Yang have? Nie Mingjue inherited a sect and had his beloved little brother, men who would die for him, people who admired him. Wei Wuxian had his loved ones, and then they were gone. Jin Guangyao had his dead mother’s wish for him to be approved for by society, and a famous father. What exactly did Xue Yang have besides his own body? He didn’t have parents, as far as we know. What else was he to value? Why is Nie Mingjue venerated, and Xue Yang condemned? Why is Jiang Cheng allowed to torture the poor under him for so many years, just because they reminded him of his brother, and Xue Yang hunted down?

The only answer is privilege. It’s privilege that allows Nie Mingjue and Jiang Cheng to decide when and how they want to enforce justice, and if they do at all. It’s privilege that they had families to avenge. It’s privilege that enables them to commit atrocities and get second, third, fourth chances. It’s privilege of his birthright than enables Jiang Cheng to never once die in the novel (Nie Mingjue not so much). But when Nie Mingjue dies, he seeks revenge on his murderer, not justice. He kills countless others in his quest to kill Jin Guangyao, people who had nothing to do with his death, and he could have killed his own brother. Even when he succeeds he ends up battling Jin Guangyao in a coffin sealed for a hundred years--hardly a victory. 

So since we’ve brought him up, let’s talk Xue Yang and the Yi City trio now. The “judgy” member of the Yi City Trio is decidedly not privileged (A-Qing, as @thisworldgodonlyknows​ wrote about her, foils Nie Huaisang, but also she foils Nie Mingjue), and her character reveals these precise flaws in Nie Mingjue and Jiang Cheng. She is a beggar girl and a thief, but she seeks justice for Xiao Xingchen and Song Lan out of nothing more than love. She herself does not kill, and frankly I’d say she is the moral backbone of the series more than any other character (along with perhaps Mianmian). She was never a part of society, after all.

A-Qing dies young, alone by a river, mutilated. She has no privilege, but her spirit survives as a ghost solely because of her desire to ensure justice for Xiao Xingchen and for Song Lan. Her condemnation of Xue Yang is at first admittedly selfish--she was jealous--but then honestly understandable and easier to swallow, since she came from a similar background. But because of this, and because A-Qing is willing to empathize, she ends up understood and her wishes fulfilled. In the end, Song Lan leaves with the remains of her soul, determined to heal both her and Xiao Xingchen. 

As I wrote here, A-Qing is also faced with a dark version of herself in Xue Yang. Similarly, Jiang Cheng is faced with a dark version of himself in both Su She (jealous of Lan Wangji, jealous of Wei Wuxian; he calls out their arrogance) and in Jin Guangyao in the temple, and only then is he able to move forward and grow. Nie Mingjue, unfortunately, did not recognize the dark version of himself in Jin Guangyao, and ends up trapped with him. 

[lhaewiel]

1, 9, 14, 19 with JC, JGY, WQ, WWX, JZX

Hello! I assume this is in a modern AU where I am magically transported into à la Kagome from Inuyasha style.

1. Invite to dinner with parents

At first place I would put JC. Who more than him wishes to impress parental figures, after all? I think he'd ask like a gazillion questions beforehand, because, regardless of the relationship, he really wants things to be perfect (and if JC was real my dad would adopt him on the spot, my dad being also the Youngest sibling, the Unwanted sibling, an orphan and someone who had to go through a lot in life)

JGY would come in second. He'd surely make an impression, being all polite, generally complimenting everything. I would be just a bit conscious of the Murder Look, but then again, my family is used to bite at each other's throat for nothing, so they would most probably not mind too much.

I would say WQ comes third. She is polite enough, but at the first sign of bullshit she would flip stuff - which would of course make things awkward. Things would eventually calm down, but yeah. Unfortunately I have a family from Mother's side who refuses to confront the bitter truth and WQ would have none of that.

Here I would put JZX. He tries his best, but sometimes he is just plainly dumb and would say the wrong thing at the wrong moment and just. I could not handle seeing the poor Peacock in such a situation.

Last one is WWX. I am sorry, but WWX would not even PRETEND to be polite. He would get along great with my uncle (dad's brother), but only because my uncle has literally no chill about anything and will burn all bridges if necessary and I feel like WWX would do the same.

9. Fake-married to for undercover reasons

I would put first JGY. A nearly perfect actor, he would know how to cover well the awkward moments and get the performance smooth and believable. I feel like he would have no qualms in faking it royally. A++ would fake marry, as long as I am not the one murdered.

Second in place I would place WQ. She has enough will and strength to pull this off, would probably know better and navigate well enough the situation. Would I truly fall in love with her? ... Yeah, who am I kidding.

WWX as third. He would be good enough to fake it, but the moment his Actual Love Interest passes by he'd be like "you on your own fam", and I mean, considering THE Hanguang-jun I do not blame him, but DAMMIT WWX, WE ARE UNDERCOVER!

Here I would place JC. I love him, but let's be realistic. He's a man with solid principles and certainties when it comes to relationships, he has lived with two parents who would rather choke each other whilst sleeping than get along, he's seen the fake-married thing IRL and it's not what he is ok with. Would he be willing to fake it if the situation truly demanded it? probably. would he go through the ordeal calmly? nope.

Last I would say JZX. Same as previous question, he does have enough awkwardness. No offence, but he did embarrass himself to stay with Yanli, I would not trust him that far. We would be uncovered in 5 minutes. He would do his best, but just. I'd rather leave the Peacock be.

14. Leave in charge of my home while I’m away

First place is a tie. I would say JGY first though. The man knows what he's doing and would probably tidy up and leave my house clean and spotless, thus doing a 900% better job than me. He works in Customer Services right? It shows.

I would put JC here. The man has rebuilt a sect from scratch, he clearly knows what he's doing, although I would be concerned over his temper and be kind of worried that something will get destroyed. But other than that yeah, I would entrust JC with my house.

Third I would put WQ. She is good at keeping everything in order, but she would get distracted doing something else and probably set on fire something. Still, how could I be mad at WQ? She is trying!

JZX here. Yeah, he would not know what to do exactly, but I trust him to ave at least the common sense to call someone who knows what they are doing, like Mianmian. A Peacock alone is trouble, but maybe a Peacock with someone else would kind of make things work?

Last is WWX. I am sorry, but my dear Feral Gremlin is the poster boy for ADHD and I am already there myself and my house is a complete mess, so no. I'd probably come back with several things on fire and WWX tinkering with Something He Definitely Should Not Have Touched.

19. Get caught in a questionable position with

My heart says JC at first place bc his face, and most probably my face, would be PRICELESS. There would be several questions as to how, but in my opinion? 100% worth it.

WWX. He'd probably laugh it off after a very quick moment of embarrassment and be completely totally chill about that. LWJ would give me the side eye for a long while, but as he sees that nothing happened and it was an accident he'd be chill as well.

JZX. He probably said/did something awkward, tried fixing it and didn't work out, so now we are stuck in an awkward position. The Life Of An Awkward Peacock. I can hear Madam Jin fretting over him asking him to apologise immediately.

WQ. She would probably be like that because I have been clumsy enough and would probably scold me, but then she'd be chill enough and I would apologise to her a gazillion times.

JGY. Him? In an awkward position? Something that could ruin his reputation? Nope, not a chance. He has enough going on, he does NOT need that.

[leatherbookmarking]

hello! as you might have noticed i changed my icon. it’s a-yao now

celebratory headcanons/concepts™ from twitter (mostly xiyao/sanzun):

1. after the first occasion jgy gets to kiss him as much as he likes, poor lxc has to wear a face mask because he looks... concerning.

someone’s like oh, did you catch a cold? lxc (thinking about his boyfriend passionately committing to his "someone tried to eat my face" look): haha yes, one iced coffee too many ^__^

2.  a concept: jgy, a person who absolutely intertwines his legs with lxc's when they're about to sleep, to the point that lxc isn't entirely sure which legs are his, only to disentangle himself away 15 minutes later because Hot

a-yao is Small and thus automatically a pre-sleep wiggler. one leg under the cover, the other on top of it. no, gotta change them. the cover is too hot, hot move. turn over. spread legs. bend leg. dangle one feet over the edge of the bed. hmm, walls are cold. leg on wall

lxc, hoarsely: a-yao. love of my life. my sun and stars. my little goldcrest. I am going to tie you to the bedpost in a non-recreational way

jgy, who has melted away after "love of my life": (gently wraps the vines of his person around the post of lan xichen's sexy torso)

3. sometimes (always) i think about modern jiggy being a dancer and sometimes (always) i imagine him moving something like mr taemin out there. like this kind of... fluid grace. he traces an arc in the air with his hand and it's like drawn with a protractor. every minuscule movement is planned. add his controlled expressions to this and you've got a What The Fuck How Is He Real

4.  in a scenario where xiyao elope (no i will not shut up. ever), what do people think about the situation? gotta be "jgy, the EVIL FUCK, has kidnapped our beacon of light and goodness, zewu-jun!"

"but two men similar to them have been spotted in some places, and they appear friendly with each other... so..."

"witchcraft! jin guangyao has controlled zewu-jun's mind! who knows if he didn't turn him into a fierce corpse!"

the first person to find them fucking under a tree sure is in for a, let's say, surprise

5. thought of the day: meng yao deserved a big ass head piece. and silver in his hair. those little chains like jin ling had, that clink quietly when he moves his head. meng yao deserved to be as decked out as possible in gusu lan sect! and for people to look at him and see just how precious he is to sect leader lan!

lan-fujun... when he walks into the room, it's like a silver-white river nymph came to live among humans 

(on the other hand: meng yao thinking about his mother. and about himself, as a child, dreaming of being accepted by his father, a powerful cultivator. they'd be free, and meng yao would become a great cultivator too, and give his mother the prettiest rooms, the best clothes, the most delicious food, anything she wants. she would never need anything, because she'd have everything. that's how it would be, and he, meng yao, will make sure of it!)

6. MODERN AU BUT BAXIA IS A POMERANIAN.

i was thinking black/tan because nie colors, BUT if she was white, it would add to the wonderful contrast... or sable. you know, because sabre... sable... not funny? sorry. look at the cute dog though

i'm not saying nmj is from the 'hey i am a big burly man with a tiny dog' school of hitting on people. BUT it is a fact that when he's having someone over for a fuck, he likes to see confusion and terror flash in their eyes as he tells them he wants to introduce them to the most important woman in his life just. i just think that would be neat (he likes to observe people before he invites them over. just to figure out if they would be that kind of person who has to be reminded why they're here. not that he's against baxia getting love! just,)

something something maybe he got her to learn to be more gentle because his early life left him a blunt and unapproachable. OR MAYBE it was a gift from huaisang? so he can have someone to take care of when he moves out? (nmj: oh, so you ARE moving out? nice! when? nhs:          )

anyway they often converse. as in, nmj always kindly asks her not to nibble on things and in most cases, she obliges. but sometimes someone forgets to take their socks out of their shoes and they smell SO DELICIOUSLY, a lady has to have her pleasures, alright? "buy her chewing toys" oh? so she graces them with one scathing look and ignores them forever? this woman's most precious item is mingjue's old sock, with holes on both the toe and heel area. he's tied it in a knot. she usually carries it to her preferred places of Chewing but always remembers to bring it back to her bed for the night. one night jgy gets up to get a glass of water and sees nmj, with baxia on the countertop, two socks in front of her. "THIS one is good", nmj says patiently, pointing, "and THIS one is a no" she bites down on the latter

nie "i get nothing but disrespect from small dogs and people under 180cm" mingjue

if baxia doesn't like someone, he automatically Doesn't Trust Them. baxia has a very love/hate relationship with jgy. initially she was very waggy about him. then at some point she grew cold

is it a new cologne she doesn't like? he tries bringing her snacks. she nibbles at them for a minute then abandons them w/ no care. she walks away from him when he's using a cute voice and feigns deafness when he's speaking normally. there can only be ONE tiny thing in this house

(sometimes nmj Squints at jgy but jgy is Trying, and it's rather entertaining to see him on the floor, dog hair on his pants, ruthlessly ignored by 2kg of Fuck You. so)

(xichen, of course, has her unending adoration, although, of course, she loves mingjue the best)

...how does she treat huaisang? i'm thinking With Enthusiasm. he looks friendly! he makes fun noises when you surprise bark at him! truly a man worth playing with. she expresses that opinion by lovingly biting his toes. sometimes he accidentally walks into her. woe! woe!! Father, help!!! Violence! Hate!!

@xiyao-feels: I just have this image of like. Her being out with NHS and seeing another dark and starting to bark furiously and try to attack because she must! Defend! NHS!

(making her stop is a work in progress, nhs is very protectable) i had a dog that, due to Circumstances, wasn't socialized properly, so she'd bark at every dog she met. she was small but she DID scare some friendly big dogs away. "why is this tiny thing shouting :("

....sometimes when she yaps at jgy, jgy... yaps back, mockingly. and then it BEGINS (at some point nhs records it and posts on yt as "pomeranians having a shouting match")  oh, no, it's fine! jgy understands. it was quite funny indeed. and the fact that for a month after that she gets into nhs' room to wake him up, or that his favourite t-shirts somehow are covered with dog hair? it's the draught, and the power of baxia's love :-)

xiyao-feels: He convinces NMJ that NHS really needs to learn more about how to handle a dog, and enrolls him in some training

"it's important that all household members get along :-)" he also blissfully records her doing her best to steal nhs' sock from his foot

nmj: see, that means she likes you!

nhs, sadly: no, da-ge. that means my toe hurts, and that i am one sock poorer

xiyao-feels:  JGY starts deliberately vanishing NHS' socks when doing laundry, blames Baxia They're probably really fancy. I don't know what really fancy socks even look like but I bet NHS does

probably very smooth and pleasant to wear. nhs likes to live fancy, after all. well, baxia likes that too now!! whatcha gonna do!! at some point someone (xichen) notices the whole house is just four grown up men giving regular sacrifice to a tiny bitchy dog. incredible

at some point they introduce her to jc's gals. it looks like this

[inessencedevided]

The Untamed, episode 45 - watching notes

I'm at this stage of fandom rn where it's really hard to concentrate on anything else 😅

Every song I listen to gets dissected for how it relates to wangxian

I need to concentrate on my thesis but instead I'm pondering how the untamed raises questions about collectivism vs individualism and how my western perception of that might differ greatly from a native chinese person or even the author's intention

Can't I just write my thesis about THAT?

Alas, I digress ...

Back to our regular programming :D

Last time one Sophie watches the untamed wwx went all Sherlock on us and used his formidable skills of deduction to expose Backpfeifengesicht's plan of killing everyone and blaming it on wwx

I've heard from several people that the next few episodes are their favourites, so no high expectations at all :D

Nobody wipes the blood on their chins away. Might be about the aesthetic

I adore detective-duo-wangxian so much!! Especially because wwx does 99% of the talking but then lwj will chime in with a single word and it's 100% devastating :D

If anyone knows any well written case-fics for these two, please, I need recs! (For after the show)

Backpfeifengesicht makes good one point and that is that jgy already is at the top of the cultivation world. So what does he gain from all this?

Or is it simply that he's afraid of wwx because he's a rebel and might act against him? (Don't answer that. I wanna find out through the show ;))

Wwx just casually revealed that he's been to cloud recess and that he handles went to the restricted section forbidden chamber. What will you do about, Lan Qiren? Huh? 😂

Oooh! Backpfeifengesicht is the ghosted faced man! I thought it was Jiggy himself!!! 😱

That makes way more sense though!

Lan Sizhui! Jin Ling! Oh you brave boys! 😭

Someone hold me 😭

But why does he not take zidian now? He's done so before!

"You little fool!" Is "I love you" in Jiang-Cheng-speak :D

"We're done for! What can we do??" - wwx *strips*

Sorry

Bahahaha 😂😂😂

I just burst out laughing waaay to loudly for the fact that I've got people sleeping in the room next to mine

But look at Lan Qiren when he sees wwx strop to reveal anat is probably his nephew's undershirt 😂😂😂

He's probably questioning every decision that's let him to this point :D

This is completely inconsequential,but I couldn't keep quiet about it anymore because I every time he makes this motion, it always sends a shiver down my spine!!! Notice that wwx (or rather Xiao Zhan) is one of these people whose fingers bend in the opposite direction??? I know it's just a normal thing some people can do, but I can't watch it!! It makes my fingers hurt just looking at it 🙈🙈🙈

Is he turning himself into a demon lure flag?? 😱

Lan Jingyi 🥺🥺🥺

Also does wwx now just transfer his self-sacrificing tendencies to lwj?

Nothing is as hot as these two together in a fight scene

Jiang Cheng doesn't want to leave them behind. He does care! :') he just never unlearned how to unravel his love from his anger

Sizhui running up to greet his dads :')

Look at them! I'm soft guys 💔

He called him Yuan!! 😭😭😭

So this is it. Any doubts I ever had about Sizhui's identity are gone

Will he finally recognize him??

Why don't you say anything lwj? This one time, I beg you!!

Sect Leader Yao still at his gossip shit even 16 years later 🙄

Lam sizhyi is seasick! Why is this so cute! 😭

Oh Wen Ning!! He recognized A-Yuan? Right?

I want to hug Lan Sizhui for his openness and kindness towards everyone he meets, no matter their status or what other people say about them! (Wen Ning now or who he thought was Mo Xuanyu the supposed mad-man) and I wanna hug lan Wangji right after for raising him to be like this :')

Oh Wen Ning! 😭

That's how I'd look at Sizhui, too, if I met him - poor unadulterated wonder :')

And just think about what that means for Wen Ning! He's not the last of the Wens! All their fight wasn't for nothing. This child, their legacy, survived 😭😭😭

"Can I call you A-Yuan" "Of Course." God I'm gonna burst into tears 😭

I'm actually bursting into tears!!

Isn't this the dream of anyone who has ever lost someone? :')

"He's like a brother and father to me" :')

And he raised him from when he was 4 or 5? So ... A-Yuan was about 2 when the Wens died? Right? Then 5 would fit with lwj's 3 year isolation

Ob god, it's the butterfly-toy!!! 😭😭😭

Wen Nings smiling through his tears! I can't! 😭💔And he's got the one from the market!

Aww, wax isn't wearing the white undergarment anymore. Too bad

Oh poor Jin Ling ...

So much grieve that he could probably never process. There so many lost kids in this story, hurt by things they had no control over 😔

I mean, I get it. That's the person who killed his parents (without being in control, but he doesnt know that) and everyone is just talking to him as if it's normal and that didn't happen. But he can't forget,but he doesnt really understand either and he has no outlet. Of course he'd just ... crash 😥

And who would have thought I'd ever try at a flashback of Jin Zixuan's death :(

For once, it'd be nice if the adults actually acted like the parent figures they're supposed to be and explain things to their children 🤦‍♀️

I'm so thankful though, that no one even thinks of scolding him for crying. Jismg Cheng only asked who it was that made him cry (and looks like he'll kick their ass). Generally, thus show has a very healthy attitude towards tears. Most characters cry when they are faced with tragedy, regardless of gender. Men being allowed to have appropriate reactions to grieve (instead of a single men tear or just punching things) is really nice to see

Oh Yao dude whose courtesy name I can't remember, shut up!

Thanks Ouyang Zizhen! You get me

I live for these children standing up to their elders

Meanwhile Nie Huaisang is just on the sidelines, enjoying the show :D never change!

The Lotus Pier theme song alone is making me cry rn 😢

Why can't wen Ning come in?

Oh Sizhui!

He many times do you want to make me cry happy tears today?? :')

Little turnip-baby ❤

But why doesn't lwj say anything ??? 😭

Lan Wangji raised A-Yuan smong a bunch of rabbits??? 😭

Now he's a turnip baby with a taste for carrots, how cute is that? :')

Holy shit, wwx and lwj are really joined at the hip these days of lwj won't enter the hall if wwx isn't allowed to :D

Lwj 😑 "no misbehaviour"

Someone. Knows. Their. Husband.

Okay sorry, but as painful as these cuts must have been and yes, while you do see scars on this prostitute's face, they in no way warrant these horrified gasps as of they had all seen a monster 🙄

Xue yang. Fancy seeing you here in this not at all disturbing sub-plot 😬

Okay that's creepy. That's really creepy

Shouldn't Jin Guangyao have a bit more compassion for these women?

On the other hand, he was born to menacingly stand behind a curtain 🤷‍♀️

W. T. F. ????

Jin Guangshan??? o___O

That's the most skin we've ever seen on this show and it's in a scene like THIS? 😬

THIS IS HOW JIN GUANGSHAN DIED? 😱😱😱

How?

How can you die from sex?

And then jgy made them keep going?

UGH

These poor women :/

So there's someone who set her free on purpose, right?

Bicao has really interesting eyes!

Oh wait, took me some time to catch up. This is about Quin Su and why she killed herself, right?

WHAT??

They were siblings o_O

They just went full game of thrones on this ...

Hey Jin Guangshan, screw you for raping that woman

Wait, is that why jgy had him die like THAT?

I'm so confused about how that happened btw

But why would Jin Guangyao merry quin su anyway? Was this some kind of political marriage that he couldn't call off?

This episode answered some of my questions but raised about a dozen more 😅

@sweetlittlevampire @fandom-glazed @elenirlachlagos @allhailthedramallama @luckymoony @kyrrahbird @i-love-him-on-purpose

5 episodes to go. I'm both happy because I can't wait to brows the untamed tag without looking for spoilers and extremely sad 🥺

Right now I'm planning to watch one episode each day until friday and then watch the last two on Saturday, hopefully quite early, so I can spend the rest of the day crying my eyes out over it, without having to worry about such trivial things as being a functioning adult or a responsible student 😅

[plan-d-to-i]

(this is me again, a Russian girl with a google translator, but now I have an account !!!) (I already asked this question, but during its sending my internet froze and I still don’t know if it reached you, so that if you've already seen it from me, well, it's not my fault ..)

why do you think JGY gave JL a dog and not JC? Considering the fact that JC is clearly obsessed with them, it is rather strange that he did not immediately instill in his nephew a love of dogs, and JC himself in the book was cold about even Fairy.

While I was thinking about this, I was able to find only two, presumably correct answers, which are related:

I think that JL spent quite a lot of time as a child at the lotus pier, and perhaps JC believed that when WWX comes back to life and comes for a flute, the Fairy will be a hindrance, since it is easier for WWX to make a new flute than to meet by chance with a dog.

JC considered WWX his most loyal dog and that's why he has such a cold attitude towards Fairy.

Hi!! (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:･ﾟ✧ Thank you for resending the question, I didn't get it before!!

Well, I wouldn't say jc is obsessed w dogs. More like some fans are obsessed with the idea of jc being obsessed with dogs. In the Guanyin temple at the end jc rages against WWX & blames him for everything under the sun but not once does he bring up dogs. He kept dogs around Lotus Pier when he was 8-ish. jc doesn't really show any interest in dogs after that. It's not like he's described longingly gazing after dogs any time he sees one.

I do love your idea that he didn't get any bc he didn't want it to be a deterrent for WWX to attempt retrieving the flute he was keeping as bait in Lotus Pier. But probably the simplest explanation is just that he doesn't care about dogs all that much. They just provided him with companionship he couldn't get anywhere else as a child & with something he could control. Now he can just order YunmengJiang disciples around like he did his dogs. It's clear jc was never really looking for equality in his relationships & interactions with others, or in his requirement list for a wife.

Honestly JGY giving Jin Ling a dog is probably an example of the healthier parenting that Jin Ling has been on the receiving end of since jiang cheng decided he's not going to take any cues from growing up around YanLi's nurturing nature & is just going to become Madam Yu 2.0 to her son. In the book JL spent his time equally between Jin and Jiang:

“When Jin Ling was young, he was brought up by two sects. He lived at the LanlingJin Sect’s Jinlin Tower half the time, and the YunmengJiang Sect’s Lotus Pier the other half” (Chapter 38)

JGY is very adept at reading human nature and discerning people's needs. WWX notices this in empathy w NMJ's head:

“He knew of people’s likes and dislikes so that he could find suitable solutions; he loved running errands and could do twice the work with half the effort. Thus, Jin GuangYao could be said to be quite a talent at analyzing others’ interests.”.

He gets Fairy for Jing Ling bc he understands JL can't build any bonds with other kids his age and has a lot of pain that he's not finding any way to express other than through anger, violence, breaking things & terrorizing the servants in Koi Tower. JGY probably realizes that it will be easier for Jin Ling to be vulnerable around a dog instead of a person, and to, in that way, foster some positive emotions & expression of those emotions in Jin Ling.

“Jin Ling suddenly remembered that when Fairy was still a clumsy little puppy that couldn’t even reach his knees, Jin GuangYao was the one who brought it over. Back then, he was only a few years old. He fought with the other children of Koi Tower, and didn’t feel satisfied even after he won, smashing everything in his room as he bawled his eyes out. None of the maids and servants dared approach him, afraid to be hit.

Grinning, the younger uncle of his snuck inside to ask, “A-Ling, what’s wrong?” He immediately smashed half a dozen vases beside Jin GuangYao’s feet. Jin GuangYao, “Uh-oh, how fierce. I’m so scared.” He shook his head as he left, pretending to be scared.

The second day, Jin Ling refused to go outside or eat anything as he sulked. Jin GuangYao walked around right outside his room. With his back against the door, Jin Ling shouted to be left alone, and suddenly the bark of a puppy came from outside the door. He opened the door. Half-squatting, Jin GuangYao had in his arms a glistening-black puppy with round, wide eyes. He looked up and smiled, “I found this little thing but I don’t know what to call it. A-Ling, do you want to give it a name? The smile was so kind, so genuine that Jin Ling couldn’t believe Jin GuangYao faked it. All of a sudden, tears fell from his eyes again.”

I'm not saying JGY's move was wholly altruistic, or that it even was primarily driven by altruism and not just say a desire to restore order to the servant staff of JinLin tower, but that doesn't mean it was necessarily devoid of it. & ultimately “This black-haired spiritual dog was a rare species” not just any random dog, and it ended up being Jin Ling's only friend/companion until he grew closer to the Juniors & WWX. & ironically enough in part it foiled JGY's last escape plan lol. I'm seeing kind of a trend in mxtx works where baddies get screwed precisely by the few semi nice things they tried to do.

[touchmycoat]

For HX/LQG, a modern!Au might work best, if only because the canons are so hard to mesh. Your B99 casting already seems like a plot. But if you don't want to write a cop AU, maybe a Leverage!AU - HX is out to ruin the person who destroyed his life, LQG is the hitter, HC is the grifter, HX is the mastermind, SY is the hacker, and LBH is the thief. XL is another victim of SWD and the client. No one on the team knows HX's also gunning for SWD for personal reasons.

EJLAKJSDNLFKJANSLDKF FUCKING HELL ANON YOU'RE GENIUS???

HX's been screwed out of everything by this invisible capitalistic force. He's not trying to be, but he's a little down in the dumps. He's a force of nature, but that doesn't change the fact that he's running through the shitty back alleys of the world getting into trouble and half on the prowl for vengeance, half hoping something would come down and kill him already.

XL's another entity running the same circles, though with a lot more ethics. HX has mixed feelings about the guy, but they interact sometimes. They do each other quiet little favors. They come to understand each other as good men, except XL's bottom line always holds and HX has a bottom line that he'll rip out with his bare and bloody hands the moment he figures out who's to blame for the death of his entire family.

One day, XL brings HX a contact—Nie Huaisang. Says the kid just lost his older brother and is apparently getting completely screwed out of the family business. XL would help, but he has a prior obligation out of town, in Banyue, and so maybe HX can look into it? NHS has money, he can pay.

HX takes the case since he has nothing better to do (also, it was the anniversary of his little sister's death, and nobody would call him a soft touch but on occasion, his immense anger can lead to good deeds). NHS is sniffling and useless but the one lead he does have is an acquaintance, a friend even, who runs in the socialite circles, named Shi Qingxuan.

HX follows the lead, a.k.a. stalks SQX for a solid month. He realizes two things. 1) SQX knows way too many people, but among the hundreds he interacts with there's a solid handful of Bad Dudes, and 2) SQX almost definitely does not know it, the little fool. Why would a 2nd gen rich kid cross paths with the likes of Xue Yang? Jin Guangyao? The Palace?

So HX traces all the money back to one name: Shi Wudu.

In the process, he also finds the slaughter of his own family. Investments in bad pharma (killed HX's parents), willful negligence of workplace safety (poisoned and killed HX's sister), Ivy League schemes (stole HX's entire academic future), and of course the classic, being chairman for the insurance company that let HX's fiancee die. Like, you name it, SWD's done it. It was like SWD woke up, chose to play god one day, and said "screw this guy in particular."

And now it's fucking personal. HX heads out and collects the best people he knows for each job (it wasn't like he could clone himself, as much as he'd like to). They were all lone wolves, but that's fine, so is HX. He'd pay them an exorbitant fee for a one-time job and they could all be on their way.

The easiest one to get hold of was Shen Yuan, with the real shit internet alias that HX would never say, thank you very much. SY almost doesn't take the job the moment he hears it's a group effort (too much potential to exposure! people who do his line of work ought to stay anonymous as much as possible!), but HX simply tells him LBH, most famous thief of the criminal underworld, was coming. SY agrees.

HX reaches out to LBH after that and says hey, your favorite little partner on the digital front is taking my job. you want in? LBH immediately says yes.

For the hitter, HX's initial plan was FX or MQ, whoever responded first (and if he told each of them the other was thinking about it, they'd both respond within the hour), but SY goes "nah dude, just use my guy. You heard of Baizhan?" and everybody's heard of what went down at Baizhan so HX agrees. LQG is hired on, frowny and punchy and quiet, which was perfectly fine by HX.

That leaves their grifter. HX thinks about it, and tells the team they were going after one of. SWD's subsidiaries's subsidiaries. The guy in charge is called Pei Su. HX outlines something that looks like it will very much work, but at the very last moment, calls LQG in private, hands him a check with a ton of zeroes on it, and tells LQG to drop the ball in his leg of the mission. They were going to intentionally fail this job—the idea is, once XL gets word that they'd fucked up (and HX probably has to get injured a little), he'd feel bad enough to send his San Lang to their aid, and Hua Cheng's the best grifter HX knows, including himself.

But LQG just scowls and throws the check away, saying this is exactly why he doesn't take group jobs, all this bullshit underhandedness, take your nonsense somewhere else, he's pulling out (and probably convincing SY, and thus LBH by their web of causality, to go with him).

His dismissive attitude pings HX in just the wrong way. For a moment he understands that LQG is looking at himself the same way he looks at people like JGY and SWD—manipulative and full of political nonsense. He's so goddamn angry that he snaps about it.

LQG also tells HX that he, along with bingyuan, also already know that he's gunning for something else here. Why would fucking Black Water pull out all the stops for one tiny job? So until HX tells them what's actually going on, LQG is fucking gone.

HX tackles him to the ground. A brawling match ensues.

LQG may be a hitter, but HX is also very, very good. They kind of beat each other to a pulp, and LQG seems weirdly pleased by the end of it. "More honest than the shit you've been spewing," he scoffs.

As they sit there in the rented apartment-HQ, nursing their wounds, HX ends up telling LQG about his family. Not in an extended or pitiful way, just the facts.

"Was that so damn hard?" LQG complains. "So SWD must die. I'll throw the fight."

HX wasn't trying to be grateful here, but. But he can appreciate a staunch and straight-shooting man.

LQG throws the fight (but tells SY about the plan ahead of time), and they've almost "failed" the job successfully—when this dude in red suddenly appears. Speaks to the security in charge, drops a few important pieces of evidence. Resolves the entire situation with fake lawyer credentials. Pei Su is arrested. The man in red disappears.

HX takes the team back to HQ with gritted teeth, and is not surprised at all to find Hua Cheng waiting for them.

"If your plan was to emotionally blackmail Dianxia," HC says smoothly, "then think again. Black Water, you just made the biggest mistake of your life."

LQG is about to take point, but HX pulls him back.

"And what mistake is that?" HX monotones. HC just smirks and cocks his head to one side.

"You hired me."