#and that the duffers are going to hurt me

[notmybabies]

every show with teenagers shows teenage sexuality, but the moment the we discuss those urges that are outside of a purely heterosexual context suddenly we are “sexualizing children” and pedos. steve and nancy hook up in the first episode of stranger things, and second season jonathan and nancy go right from first kiss to sex. never heard anybody accused of sexualizing them or calling the duffer bros perverts. but suggesting two best friends are checking each other out and feeling sexual attraction for one another is soooo outrageous and evil people must call us out on it. heaven forbid we write fanfic or make art depicting anything of that heinous nature, especially if we are adults! you know, because we were never that age and never felt those things and if we did we cannot legally ever think back upon those years and experiences with anything but neutral feelings otherwise we are total sickos. how dare we try to heal our younger queer repressed selves by indulging in the heightened emotions and possibilities that come with romance and relationships during that particular time of our lives! how awful of us to imagine two young queers getting to find and accept themselves and each other in ways we were denied at that age! how foolish are we to hope for stories about people like us who figured things out sooner than we did, who got things they wanted and found happiness and healthy and safe romantic and sexual relationships where we did not!

miss me with that anti-gay propaganda-fed bullshit. people of all ages have always enjoyed young romance and coming of age stories, and it only hurts those stories to sanitize them and enforce a lack of sensuality. it hurts society and young people to leave queer sexuality out of the narrative. fuck the fuck off and don’t read what you don’t want to read.

[castlebyersthoughts]

I wonder if vecna is going to taunt Mike with his love confession to El. I feel like since that was the last big thing we see of milkvan it would make sense to breakdown that moment before they have their breakup. What if Vecna turned into El and said “YOU LIE. You don’t love me. I know what you really wanted to say. I know who your heart really beats for.” Or something not vecna related happens before the time jump where El says something about his heart/love confession and it starts to get broken down from there. I just feel like even though people hated his love confession and found it super cringy people will still remember it as fact after they breakup and I don’t want anyone to still be like “wait…but like didn’t he say he loved her why are they breaking up?” For byler to be able to properly grow El can’t be hurt by the breakup. I think it needs to be mutual. She can still be a little upset that it’s over but happy that they’re still friends. He can maybe try to explain himself then about how he was going to say one thing at the pizza place but they got interrupted and then it wasn’t really the time to say it when all hell broke loose. He just wanted to save her so badly that he said what she wanted to hear. Maybe El could say “I thought I wanted to hear you say it or that I needed you to.” Maybe similarly at the end of s3 when she first said it to him and it made him realize something, maybe it did a similar thing for her now when he first said it after all this time.

I completely agree with the fact that the monologue has to come up and be explained in a way in season 5 if they go through with Byler. Those are great ideas for it.

For the Vecna vision thing, I'd love something like that, but I'll be honest: as time passes, I'm becoming less sure that Vecna is even going to taunt Mike at all. I feel like at this point he's definitely more connected to El and Will but also Max, possibly Nancy, and now Holly. I don't really see the writers making him have some kind of relationship with Mike as well, but I'd be happy to be wrong!

I feel like Mike's internal conflict will be handled in a more human, as opposed to supernatural, way. Like him talking to Robin, maybe Vickie, and figuring things out. He's also probably going to be having multiple conversations with Will, yes some about Vecna, but not only, especially if they live together in the Wheeler house as I think they will.

In the end I feel like Mike and El need to have a big talk where they go over everything, for them as characters, and for the audience to really understand what the Duffers were saying with that relationship (if they want it to be crystal clear, but I could also see them wanting to leave some ideas in subtext only). Ideally they would go over how they got into that relationship too quickly, how they both tried to make it work when it obviously wasn't, because they simply didn't know any better, and how they confused their deep bond for romantic love because that was what was expected of them. (A scene like this would be great as the --don't read this if you don't want to know about leaks-- rumored baseball field scene, as baseball is a sign of forced conformity, and even forced "straightness", in the show). And yes, Mike needs to explain whether he intentionally lied during the monologue (I personally don't believe that was the case) or whether he thought he was saying the truth but didn't realize he was confusing other feelings (protectiveness, deep affection...) for romantic love. Or they can even say that he truly did love her but he's learning to let go of this relationship as it just wasn't right for either of them, and he realized now that Will was the right person for him all along. That could work too.

As for what you said about El, I believe she won't be hurt by the break up because when it happens she'll already have arrived at that conclusion herself (is that sentence even correct? English isn't my first language lmao). As I said in my reddit post, I don't believe El is in love with Mike in season 4, I don't even think she ever truly was. Nothing in the whole season makes us believe that, except for the fact that she wrote "Love" on her letters... which were full of lies. Hmm. I totally agree with the fact that when she got what she wanted, hearing "I love you" from her boyfriend, she realized it wasn't what she needed after all. But after that big love declaration from Mike, how could she have the heart (lol) to say something? She's probably gonna keep going through the motions with Mike because it's easier, or maybe she's still not realizing that this isn't real romantic love. They're probably not even gonna be spending that much time together anyway due to the fact that she's in hiding.

I do believe that if El learns about Will's feelings for Mike, and sees what true unconditional romantic love looks like, she would absolutely realize that what she has with Mike isn't that and they shouldn't be together in that way anymore. I could see her explain this to Mike, saying that she used to need him to tell her he loved her for the wrong reasons (because she thought she was unlovable/a monster) but her confrontation with Brenner changed her as she realized she wasn't the monster, and she was so relieved to reunite with Mike in the desert but she was now in a different place. Once again, she experienced personal growth during her time away from Mike. For the record, what I think El was going to tell Mike at the pizza place was something like "Mike, it's okay. It's okay if you don't love me, it doesn't matter anymore", and this could've led to an amicable break up. But this is a TV show so this shit has to be dragged out into the last season, preferably with a lot of drama, and make us lose some hair in the process.

That was a lengthy answer oh my god, sorry for blabbing so much. Thanks for the ask!

[cherryssodapop]

you do know that Billy is racist right...

*sighhhhhhhh* Alright, here we go…

Typically I don’t like getting into this argument because you’re not supposed to argue with a POC about what’s racist and what isn’t (I don’t actually know if you are poc or not this is a general statement I’m making), I know I don’t because it just doesn’t feel right, but here’s the thing.

When it comes to this character the one line he said that everyone’s going crazy for I’m going to have to disagree here because it’s just 1. too vague of a statement, of course you could argue that Billy talking about Lucas’ skin colour is implied in his statement and I agree, but not for the reasons you think.

And 2. there’s a reason Dacre changed this scene with the duffers regarding Billy’s potential racism because you’re creating a character who’s an antagonist who originally had no reason to be bad (until Dacre suggested the scene with his father) and then you wanna add racism into the mix? if the duffers really wanted to bring up the issue of racism during the 80s especially in small secluded areas like Hawkins, I’m pretty sure it would’ve been an actual subplot, but no they just wanted to use it as an additional reason to make Billy’s character initially unlikeable and it was so poorly written into the script and also Dacre was just straight up uncomfortable acting out that whole sequence so we can safely say the concept of Billy being a racist is scrapped from canon all together. I’m explaining this from the perspective of a film student because you can’t write an antagonist without a plausible reason and motive to be bad, so Dacre humanizing him and giving him that back story and lore is exactly what you do when it comes to character work, especially for antagonists like Billy (unless you wanna make the villain a basic villain with a basic story arc who’s sole purpose is to get in the hero’s way and die trying but in this case Billy never did that. He never really got into anyone’s way besides at the end of season 2 but it’s because he had no idea what’s going on and in HIS mind he thinks he’s saving Max from a fucked up situation. And im not even going to start with season 3 because we all know; bro was possessed, he wasn’t himself, Vecna was acting out entirely through him Billy had no say in any of it. In fact he even showed remorse and shame during the little time Vecna let him be in control of himself before abruptly taking over.) Also, yes you can be from an educated and woke society (California is a blue state and the equal opportunities act in the states already passed and Billy leaves for hawkins in fall 1984 so it’s already well established in society at that time that being racist is not acceptable) and still be a bigot, but I really just don’t believe this is the case for Billy.

What I think the issue here is his father, now hear me out, hear me out.

In the book “Runaway Max” it is brought up that Neil is a huge supporter of Reagen who at the time was a republican and attempted to abolish the equal opportunities act bill but ultimately failed of course. Max even says it herself that Neil is racist and a white supremacist. What does that tell you? His father is the whole problem. Because we all know that Billy gets beaten and blamed for everything that happens whether it’s Max’s fault or his Neil will take any excuse to physically hurt Billy. And being how Neil is so adamant on Billy watching over Max and being in charge of her, what would happen if Neil caught Max with Lucas who is black and we know Neil’s views on that demographic of people? What do you think would happen?

Of course, we could also bring up that if Billy was racist it would be a learned behaviour from his father. Though, to be honest, considering how much Billy tries to rebel against his father, I think it’s safe to say that would include Neil’s morals and beliefs, so I highly doubt it.

Going back to my first point, I think Billy did say that about Lucas not because he hates Lucas but because his father would and would take out that well known hatred out on Billy. It was more of a warning for both of their safety because of how insane Neil is. That’s why I think Billy said that and acted that way in terms of their friendship because he doesn’t want to deal with the consequences of his father’s wrath.

We can also see this in season 3, when Billy is working full time, starting to take control of his life (likely saving up money so he could leave and move back to California) he doesn’t even care about what Max is doing let alone dating Lucas, he’s too busy trying to get his life together.

So no, I don’t think Billy is a racist and I’ve listed all of my reasons why from a canonical standpoint using evidence from the story, plus my own analysis on his character as an actor myself.

Now from a shifter’s standpoint; I really don’t wanna hear y’all judge my choice of S/O considering some of y’all shift for active psychopaths and murderers meanwhile I’m shifting for a dude who’s been deeply traumatized and wants to live his life in peace and find true love.

To conclude; this is entirely my opinion and my belief on the topic. If you believe the opposite you’re fully entitled to, no one’s gonna attack you or try to convince you otherwise. But the thing is with people like myself who like Billy’s character and indulge in his lore and fanfiction we’re constantly getting criticized and harassed and even as far as labeled as bad people just because we view him from a different perspective. I believe it’s time we all grow up and respect each other’s opinions because not everyone agrees with everyone and that’s the way of the world. freedom of thought freedom of speech.

(goddamn this was a long rant but i had to say my peace)

[steddieas-shegoes]

maybe a steve sickfic with 'I didn't want you to see me like this'

You guys truly love seeing Steve suffer and I just hope the Duffer brothers do not see what we get up to here.

-------------------------

"He called into work this morning and Keith said he sounded hungover. But I was with him last night and there's no way he's hungover," Robin's voice said outside of Steve's bedroom door.

"Maybe it's a migraine," Eddie's voice answered.

What was Eddie even doing here?

There was a knock on his bedroom door, followed by the door opening and Eddie peeking his head in.

"Stevie? You alright in here?"

Steve groaned in response, his head pounding and his body aching.

"Taking that as a no," Eddie said as he came further into the room.

"No, stay away. I think it's the flu," Steve said, voice raspy from the soreness in his throat.

"Have you eaten? Had water? Taken medicine? You're sweating, do you have a fever?" Eddie sounded like he was panicking, and Steve did not want that.

"Uh. I'm okay."

"Why didn't you call me?" Eddie sounded hurt, like he fully expected Steve to bother him when he was sick.

"I didn't want you to see me like this."

Too honest.

"But I could have brought you stuff," Eddie was sitting on the edge of his bed now, his hand coming up to move the hair off of Steve's sweaty forehead.

"I'm fine."

"Robin, can you go get water and some crackers please?" Eddie looked over at where she stood in the doorway. "You should take a shower, cool off a little. I can change the sheets."

"Don't wanna get up."

"What if I help you?"

"Help me...shower?" Steve felt like he was missing something.

"If it'll help you feel better, yeah."

"Um."

"Steve, you can say no. It's just, don't say no because you're worried it will bother me. Quite the opposite."

Eddie was blushing, Steve could see the red along his cheeks, like he was the one with a fever.

"What's that mean?" Steve's head was cloudy, he couldn't be blamed for not quite understanding.

"Steve."

"Hm?"

"I mean, you have to know, right?" Eddie's voice was quiet, trembling with nerves.

"Know what?"

"How much I care about you."

"Huh."

"Steve."

Eddie leaned down and kissed his forehead.

"You can keep your boxers on, okay? We'll talk when you feel better. But I think it'll help to wash away some of the sweat, maybe cool off a little."

"Okay."

"And next time, just know I wanna see you in any way. All the ways. Even sick, even tired. Okay?"

"Okay, Eds."

[bylrlve]

Warning! Potential Spoilers for Stranger Things Season 5! Exciting for Bylers!

Total confirmed M*leven scenes so far: kiss in a field in episode one, and rooftop conversation, also likely in episode one. There is a staggered time skip through episode one - unclear if chronological, or through flashbacks, but it means we have no idea when this kiss actually takes place in the chronology of the show.

Despite what Alex insinuates, that is literally it, as far as leakers know, until episode 3. Everyone is at the mansion set in that episode for at least one scene, prior to splitting off into groups and venturing into the upside down in episode 4. One presumes they may interact in the mansion scene, but even that is unknown. That literally is it up to episode 6, which is what they’re filming now - as far as leakers are aware, but it’s pretty clear when you look at Finn’s schedule vs Millie’s.

(Gifs from a video by @byler-endgayme)

Meanwhile, this is what has leaked about Byler so far:

Episode 2; the bike ride. Ep 2 according to the Twitter stranger things update account. If this is a school run in the morning, Will may be living at the Wheelers - supported by the bts pic with seven chairs at the table. If not, he’s likely just visiting Mike at the house - but it still shows that Will is part of Mike’s domestic routine, and that he occupies a partner role.

A lot happens for/to the wheelers in episode 2: karen possibly gets injured here, holly gets taken here apparently, Mike gets hurt at the hospital along with several other people (confirmed) and Will shows up crying and blaming himself. Rovickie, jancy, and byler are there: Will is there for Mike, El is not.

Episode 3: everyone is at the mansion set before breaking off into UD groups. This includes Mike, Will, El, and it’s notable that, from context, it seems like it dovetails into Mike and Will choosing each other as partners for… (life) the Upside Down.

Episode 4: the flashback with 8yo Will, 8yo Mike, and 13yo Jonathan. Will and Jon don’t speak, Mike does.

Episode 6: a scene at a church covered in vines with just Mike and Will.

The scenes at the farm with Mike, Robin, Will, and apparently Vickie happen around 503-4, and Mike a and Will are wearing the same clothes in the hand-stack picture as in the leaked Duffer birthday video from early February - see @will80sbyers and @justmy-account’s excellent production masterposts. Mike apparently has his own subplot with Robin, and we know Robin and Will have 1:1 scenes…

There’s been some kerfuffle over a an actor named Jacob Moran being followed on Instagram by Noah recently - but he’s followed Noah, Caleb, and Jamie for years, and as he was working on a project in Atlanta until recently, it seems more likely that he’s a friend of Noah’s than that he’s Will’s NPC Love Interest. Once again, that trail goes cold…

Speaking of, it’s amusing and frustrating to me that when some random acc on Twitter says Will has an NPC Love Interest people pay attention, but when Mytimetoshinehello, a reliable enough leak account, first says in May that he has a love interest and then privately DMS people saying it’s a new character, only to privately tweet to paid subscribers (ie not for attention) saying that they hear it is Mike, people don’t pick up on it. Of course, the UpsideDownScoops account did delete their tweet and proceed to bullshit about why it’s not Mike, so…

Big Screen Leaks is a very reliable general spoilers acc that announced they had st5 spoilers in may 2023. They said on Sunday, during a q&a, that they’re not sharing anything… something weird is going on. They also follow MTTSH.

Noah and MTTSH both had a similar trajectory. The latter went from privately saying in DMs that it’s not Mike to saying to their subs that it is. The former went from being pessimistic when he had the first few scripts to going on TT live right before filming in january and saying ‘byler endgame byler kiss’ very excitedly - he had up to episode 6. They got the ep 7 script in March, and on March 27 he liked a tiktok showing Mike and Will’s BTS pics with a boyfriends 💙💛’ caption.

The statement by the duffers that we’re returning to s1 dynamics is interesting, given that Mike and Will are together so much while Mike and El aren’t. Re: Mike, perhaps they mean that his primary focus is keeping Will… with an ending of finding new romance, perhaps? All in all? I’m so hyped.

TLDR: Bylers are eating no matter what, in terms of screentime and content. M*levens… sad trombone noise.

UPDATE TO ADD: https://x.com/byrhop/status/1811804426492907787?s=46

[yourlocalbadgerscales]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: in my opinion, Byler endgame isn’t the most important thing for us to get in s5. And I think I’m not the only one who feels like that. No, the most important thing is that Mike and El break up. And I’m not saying this because I’m petty or whatever, don’t ever think I am.

I’m saying this because their relationship is unhealthy and toxic.

One might argue that, well, Will and Mike have fought too! If it’s realistic for them to resolve all their problems *and get together* in s5, then why isn’t it realistic for Mike and El to make up and end s5 in a healthy relationship together? Well, maybe I’m slightly biased, maybe not… but I don’t think that’s realistic at all for them. And even if it was I don’t care, because for me it’s pretty obvious Mike doesn’t love El romantically. It’s debatable if he ever did, but it’s also not relevant in this post. What I’m saying is Mike doesn’t love El romantically as of now, and I think El has started to realise if not fully accepted that by now.

I think El has finally realised she should have other priorities in life than stupid boys, as Max would say. That she is better off on her own and that Mike and her were better off as friends this whole time. And it seems like the Duffers think the same, considering the fact that Mike is going to spend an awful lot of time together with his best friend Will in s5, more than with El, who is now his girlfriend. Probably not for much longer. And I definitely believe that’s for the best.

How is Mileven endgame satisfying for El’s, Mike’s and Will’s arcs? El stays together with the boy who repeatedly hurts her feelings and gaslights her, Mike stays together with the girl he can’t even confess his love to, and Will.

Oh, Will. I am very passionate about Will’s part specifically in this love triangle, this story, Will and his arc are so very precious to so many people and the Duffers can’t afford messing it up. They just can’t.

Some people might think that Will moving on from Mike and learning how to deal with the fact that his love will never be requited is a satisfying arc for him, which I personally find… pretty insane, if I’m being honest. To me it’s pretty clear that a majority of the people who think this, if not all of them, are not queer and therefore don’t know what they’re talking about. They do not relate to the queer experience like so many of us Byler shippers do.

So of course I can’t really blame them for not knowing how common of an experience this is for queer people, to have a crush on someone of the same gender as a kid and feeling nothing but hopelessness. It really hits you in a situation like that how different you are from others, and for a teen it’s just torture. You can’t do what other kids your age can, can’t just go up to the person you like and ask them out, because the risk of being turned down is high and the risk of being bullied is even higher. Asking out the wrong person today could lead to devastating consequences, and asking out the wrong person during the 80’s, well…

I don’t blame Will for not taking the risk of asking Mike out, because no matter how much he trusts his best friend, he just can’t take the risk.

Being a teenager and always being too frightened to do something about your feelings for another person in case it leads to you getting mocked and beat up and bullied for the rest of your life takes a toll on you. It’s easy to believe that you’ll never find love, because how could you? And that hurts. It really fucking hurts. To know that you’ll never what others have simply because you’re a boy who likes boys or a girl who likes girls.

And heterosexual people will probably never fully understand that, because how could they?

Sure, Will accepting that Mike is straight and simply having to move on with his life is a realistic outcome. But it’s not the representation queer people so desperately need in media. And it’s definitely not a satisfying arc. Queer people deal and will always deal with this shit, we don’t need more reminders of how hard it is for people like us to find love. To find the courage to take a risk that for some could cost you your life. Can you blame us for not wanting to take that risk? Can you blame us for wanting representation in media of how different it can be?

Because queer people CAN find love too! It’s very much possible, and it’s beautiful, and it’s what we need more of in media, and Byler is such a great opportunity to give the world exactly what! Some say that Mileven has’nt been building up for four seasons just for Byler to happen in s5, and I agree. Because it’s true: Mileven hasn’t been building up for four seasons. In fact, it’s been crumbling. Not for the Duffers to grant us Byler as fan service or to piss off Mileven shippers, but because it’s the most satisfying arc for Mike, El and Will.

El needs to prioritise herself more and grow as a person, find out who she is and become confident in the person she finds herself to be. Mike needs to be brave and decide who he wants to be in his life and who to push away. He needs to keep being strong, because internalised homophobia is a bitch and it will probably never fully go away, but that’s just how it is. Will needs to realise that what everyone has made him believe for years is false, and that queer people can indeed find love, people like him can in fact find love. People like him can be happy.

This has been the idea this whole time, and this is why Mike and El haven’t moved an inch forward for at least two seasons while Mike and Will have been sharing so many intimate moments! It’s all for a reason, it has all been for a reason for four whole season and the fifth and last one will finally let us know where the story has taken these three kids and gahhhh I’m emotional stoppp anyways

uh yeah that’s all ig 😍

[wonderwall-dreaming]

Is it surprising that a dead character will remain dead? No.

Is it disappointing? Yes.

It's been two years since Stranger Things 4 Vol. 2 dropped and Eddie Munson's death is still a sore spot for me.

The problem I had with his death two years ago and still have with it now is that it was extremely predictable and avoidable. The thing is, Eddie's death didn't impact the story for all the characters. It just impacted Dustin.

The Duffers spoke about needing a doomed character for Season 4, and they did have that with Max, but since she's a main character, she has plot armor. They do this every season. They're too afraid to actually do something that will impact the story and all the characters, so they play it safe, bring someone new in that the audience will love, and then kill them.

Now, don't take that as me saying I wish Max died because I don't, I'm just pointing out how they had their doomed character, but the rules didn't apply because she's part of the main cast of characters and those are untouchable. I love Max, I hated seeing her suffer in Season 4, but it is true, she was cursed, a fate that none of the other three characters who were cursed could escape.

My issues with Eddie's death being predictable and avoidable and my issue with the Duffer Brothers' writing aside, here's the real problem. The message his death sent is harmful.

Before someone comes at me about how Stranger Things is fictional, and it's not real, I know, but the thing is, fiction makes people feel very real things. If it can provide them comfort, it can also cause them heartbreak. Storytelling is powerful. The emotions it makes people feel are very real. It doesn't necessarily matter if it's fiction, if it hurts you, it hurts you.

All of that being said, let's get back to my problem with the message his death sends.

The narrative that characters who are suffering, whether that be because of their current circumstances or trauma in their past, dying and finally being at peace is harmful.

Why can't characters who have only known pain get the chance to heal in life? Peace through death is not the only option.

The message is always tied to a character who dies in a self-sacrificial way, essentially killing themselves, and the writers going "Sure that's sad, but look at how bad their life was! They're at peace now." That transcends fiction and for some hits a little too close to home.

Do I think we'll see Eddie in Season 5? Yeah, I do, most likely as some nightmare that will terrorize Dustin, and it's unfortunate because I don't believe it had to be this way.

I think with different writers, Eddie Munson could've had a very different story that would have had its sad moments but wouldn't have ended the way that it did, and overall would have sent a better message to those who relate to him.

I am begging writers to abandon this narrative, especially in stories that are fantasy-based and don't abide by normal "rules" I promise you no one wants to see that really loveable character with trauma essentially commit suicide and then be told it's a good thing because they were suffering.

The Twitter post from the top of my post.

[ronancecats]

ok you got me super curious. why don't you like steve?

This is gonna be a long one, so unbuckle your seatbelts, slam on the brakes, and do a front flip out of the windshield.

I'm going to break it down by season because that will help me get all my points down, and I don't want to leave anything out. Also, a little disclaimer: I do like Steve's writing, and I appreciate the way he's developed and the role he plays, but with that being said, I still don't like him as a character.

I'm going to try and explain each reason the best I can, but I low-key suck at that so I'm sorry if anything seems confusing.

SEASON 1:

season 1 is the season that is most self-explanatory of why I don't like him, I don't think anyone genuinely likes him in season 1.

-He literally slut shamed Nancy. Like...I don't care if he was only a teenager/had bad friends. He would've been 17 and old ENOUGH to understand the consequences of that and that it would hurt Nancy...that's why he did it in the first place.

-he was awful to Jonathan, and I'm not necessarily talking about the breaking camera thing, I'm talking about what he said to him before the fight. He called him queer (a slur back in the 80's), insulted his family, and insinuated that he had something to do with his little brother's disappearance.

-He pressured Nancy into sex. NO, HE DID NOT SA HER. It was consensual, but with that being said, something can still be consensual and enjoyed while having pressure on top of that. Also, he didn't stop Carol when she was mocking Nancy and making her uncomfortable; he was smug about it. But yes, I understand he was just a teenager then.

-He just, in general, didn't respect her boundaries at all and made Barb's disappearance about himself AT FIRST.

SEASON 2:

-He left Nancy, black out drunk, at a party. Yes, he was heartbroken, but he left her there and she was really lucky that Jonathan was there.

There's not much else in season 2 honestly. Mostly my feelings about him in s2 come from the first couple episodes when all he wanted was to make Nancy forget about her guilt and leaving her at the party. But yeah, I don't care about him in s2.

SEASON 3:

There's nothing necessarily bad about him in s3. I just hate how they made him this big character but then pushed Jonathan to the side, but that has nothing to do with his character. That's just a personal pet peeve I have with the duffers.

S3 was definitely his best season and the only one I can say I liked him in. They let him focus on his platonic relationships instead of making him chase after Nancy the whole time, and I like that. If they kept him like this for s4, I probably wouldn't dislike him as much as I do, but they just had to make him go back to that and it ruined him for me. Hopefully in s5 they'll let him be like his s3 self again.

SEASON 4:

-the six nugget speech. OH MY GOD BROTHER EUGH. I could make a whole essay about this, but long story short, it was completely unhinged and just shows he only wants Nancy for his dream, and he doesn't really care about her dreams in a romantic sense. He's in love with the idea of her, not her.

In conclusion, I only like Steve when they don't make his entire character revolve around Stancy and that dead relationship. Let Stancy die, I BEG OF YOU. It's better for Steve, Nancy, Jonathan, and literally everyone who watched the damn show without rose-colored glasses for Steve.

If they just let the love triangle die in s2, I can almost guarantee that I would like Steve more. But alas, they didn't and kept it around as if we don't already know how it's going to end.

Anyway, I probably went into way more detail than you wanted me to, but oh well. I wanted to be honest.

[carmenilla]

ok because i see the milkvan vision. i really do

listen i would still like them if the duffers didn’t make me glad i wasn’t one of mike and el’s friends in s3 because of how much time they spent just making out whenever they could instead of actually hanging out with their friends. like if i were will or dustin especially i would be even more pissed off than they were about it - that’s not a healthy relationship and results in their friends being hurt, which is shitty as hell

i would still like them if i had any insight into why they like each other and how exactly they feel about each other instead of them both avoiding it like a plague (especially mike, even in his fucking love confession).

i would still like them if the duffers hadn’t brought so much attention to will being sad and left out in literally all of their scenes together in s4 (except for their argument scene) to the point where i’m rooting for him so much, especially as a queer person. it would be gross to highlight will’s suffering in all the s4 milkvan scenes just to rub it in our (queer viewers) faces that will has a tragic gay love story and will never get with the person he’s in love with, and so i want him to score this win for me as well, as a queer person.

there was a point where i liked byler AND milkvan - i liked byler more and obviously wanted them to become canon, but i thought mike and el’s relationship was sweet and liked them as well. until i rewatched the series without being a hardcore milkvan shipper anymore and realized all the red flags

byler and milkvan could have both been good ships, had milkvan not clearly been a toxic relationship where it’s questionable if they like anything about the other person (romantically of course). they could have both been good ships had will’s supposed tragic unrequited queer love not been literally rubbed in my damn face. but they’re not, and that’s why i have full confidence in saying that byler is the best and right way to go with the story and any other way would be SHIT AS HELL and would be queerbait which is the equivalent of asking us queer folks to come close just so they can spit in our faces. and that would be literally awful

that’s why i don’t like milkvan. some scenes they have are very sweet, even i cant deny, but the bad outweighs the good tenfold and i eventually got tired of pretending it doesnt

[givehimthemedicine]

i read the Lumax analysis and ngl i feel the same about Byler. why is Will practically doing all the work. Mike just ignores him, then Will speaks up, gets shut down. no apology to his face. then Mike has the gall to pull the "b-but you won’t abandon me, right 🥺?" card seconds before they move to Cali and Will eats it up.

Mike was scribbling his next letter to send to El, while Will was making a painting as a gift for him. when they reunite at the airport, Will is so giddy, and happy even when he spots Mike wearing the Minion suit. he is going in for a hug, fully expecting he’ll get one. despite the lack of phone calls he believes that Mike is gonna match his energy. he doesn’t. he is ignored. again. when Mike realizes he is losing him he swoops in to apologize. what do we get for rest of season? it’s just Will comforting, reassuring Mike and listening to his problems. he notices Mike being upset as they are burying the corpse and talks to him, he notices Mike moping as he reads El’s letter, etc. then the grand culmination - van scene.

i give Mike a pass for not noticing Will sobbing as hes muffling his cries with his hand and turned around. but what about before? when he was giving the van speech at times Will looked and sounded like he was 2 seconds away from bursting into tears. how did Mike not notice something was wrong when he was obviously paying attention to him. and if he did that’s even worse.

Jonathan being there isn’t an excuse. he could have said something, anything, subtly to check up on him or comfort him. he didn’t do that. "you make her feel like she’s not a mistake at all. like she’s better for being different" ok so why are the Duffers so allergic to showing us that. when was the last time that happened. season 2? when Mike said it’s not his fault Will doesn’t like girls, that they are not kids anymore, him wanting to play DnD, which led to Will having a breakdown and destroying Castle Byers, his safe place and cry as he ripped up their photos and called himself stupid - was he feeling better for being different? or worse? did he feel uplifted by Mike shoving in his face how normal he is unlike Will? that he’ll never be like them? that they are moving on, being grown ups and Will is stuck? could some bully at school outright calling him a slur be as hurtful as the things his best friend, someone he trusted and loved said to him then? that he never received a proper apology for.

Mike gets free therapy sessions. Will gets a few crumbs of attention and affection when Mike gets forcibly separated from El.

Mike and Will aren't characters I pay particular attention to, so the townsfolk will please forgive my newborn take.

I absolutely see your point and agree Mike has had terrible PR with Will on many occasions. but while he's often an asshat when it comes to Will's feelings, I'll say at least Mike is regularly shown to be concerned for Will's welfare in the life-and-death-plot way, and is actively involved in making plans and taking actions that save him. (Mike's the one to rally the party to go out and search for Will. to insist he's alive somehow after they all saw his dead body. to build "hey let's make sure we don't also kill Will" into the MF-killing plans. etc)

that's where I think a comparison to lumax isn't so tight because I can't think of anything Max has ever done for Lucas's welfare on either a plot or feelings level. (the writing has never really given her an occasion to save or help Lucas the way he is for her.)

and for all his shit, we have also seen Mike be really good to Will on the feelings level (mostly thinking about his incredible loyalty in season 2 and the swings speech. his commitment to Will in the front half of the show is on par with that of Joyce and that's saying something). it sure would be nicer if that was more recent/consistent, but it has happened, which I can't honestly say for Max. the nicest thing Max has done for Lucas so far is allow him to be nice to her.

[toobusybeingdelulu]

No because if the duffers had really cared about Max and especially Billy, at the end of season 2 we would have gotten a scene between them in the car before the snow ball, paralleling the one between Dustin and Steve.

or maybe we would have not seen it until s4 in one of Max's memories, instead of the one at the skatepark which had literally no value whatsoever, and it could have been something like this:

—

Eleven recognizes the building in front of her almost immediately. How could she not? when those same walls held the memories of so many kids, including hers: they had witnessed her first ball, aka one of the few times she had managed to feel like a normal kid, surrounded by friends and other people her age who did not spare a glance for her. Because, for once in her life, none of them could have said there was anything remarkable and different about her except for a pretty dress and some light make up.

And apparently that same building holds some kind of significance for Max too considering that, among all her other memories' locations, Hawkins Middle School was the one to greet her. Except that she finds herself not inside of it, but out, right in the parking lot.

Eleven spins on herself, trying to have a look around; she recognizes Dustin with his absurd hairstyle walking confidently towards the school. She doesn't recognize the car he came out of, though.

The Camaro parked just a little bit further away, on the other hand…

The girl holds her breath, walking slowly towards it; while reducing the distance between them she can already make out a flash of red hair, with a flower pin on top of it. honestly, that's another thing she could recognize everywhere. Sitting on the passenger's seat is Max, with her mouth set in a tight line and, right beside her, Billy. Eleven has to stop for a second while trying to shake off the memory of the last time she saw him: dead, with his chest spared open. So different from the one version now in front of her; His hair is shorter, his clothes cleaner, and yet the vulnerable gaze she had seen in his eyes that fatal night is almost the same as this one.

The only difference is that, in this memory, there is no one to witness it. Billy is looking straight ahead, and so is Max.

And none of them is speaking.

Furrowing her brow, Eleven gets closer. Once reaching the car's window on Max's side she gets on her knees, determined to have a better look at what's happening inside.

The redhead is sitting with her arms crossed, tapping her foot on the pavement. To say she looks impatient would be an understatement.

"So? Can I go?" To further confirm that fact, her tone is anything but friendly. Billy, who only now seems to remember that she is here, turns towards her with a raised brow.

"No one is holding you back. why are you still here?”

Max looks at him like he is a child, before trying to open the door. Which doesn't, in fact, open. "You have the child security on, genius." she stays silent for a second, then adds: "like I would voluntarily sit in this stupid car with you for longer than necessary."

Eleven holds her breath, shifting her gaze to Billy, who does nothing more than hold the wheel tighter and release a deep sigh, like those words had physically hurt him. And yet it only lasts for a second, because his shoulders relax right after. "this stupid car, as you called it, is the one thing that took you to this loser party in the first place. what's so exciting about it anyway?"

While watching Max's expression, Eleven thinks that if her eyes had a superpower, it would've been be that of throwing daggers. "first of all, it gets me away from your stupid face. It seems like a good reason enough to me."

"yeah, and it gets you closer to the ugly ones of your hick friends. Speaking of looks-“

“I told you to leave them alone. And you still have this fucking security thing on. Let me out, or l'm gonna be late!"

"late for what? Your first kissy-kiss dance under the mistletoe? Jesus, Max, I never took you for a romantic pussy."

"What's your problem?!" she explodes, finally turning towards him with her fists clenched. "Is this your sick idea of revenge? keeping me locked here with you for the rest of the night while leaving me wondering if they are having fun without me or-“

“You look pretty.”

Eleven and Max almost gasp at the exact same time.

Billy, on the other hand, looks like he just swallowed a frog, while still looking straight ahead and his grip on the wheel tight enough to make his fingers white. Eleven can't remember the last time she saw Max at a loss for words. From her position, the only thing she sees is her hair, and yet she can imagine the expression of total bewilderment she must have in that moment.

"I mean... less ugly than usual. Or whatever." Adds Billy, probably in order to escape that suffocating silence.

Max, on her part, doesn't say anything, but El doesn't miss the way she relaxes her shoulder after resuming her previous position, pushed against the seat with her arms tight around herself.

In the end, just as she is about to open her mouth to reply, a distinct click! is heard inside the car. "you can go. Let me find you here not later than half past eleven, got that?"

Max closes her mouth and nods, before throwing a quick, timid glance at Billy. Then she opens the door and Eleven rises to her feet, watching her best friend look at her brother like she doesn't understand him in the slightest. Like she wants to say something but can't manage herself to.

So she doesn't.

Right after Max disappears behind the school's doors, a loud rumble is heard. Eleven has just a moment to process what she just saw before turning and finding herself right in front of the same nebulous cloud that she once saw in Billy’s mind.

The source.

She doesn't have much time. So she can't do nothing more than leave the school, Billy, Max and their complicated relationship behind. At least for now.

[dwobbitfromtheshire]

I'm sorry, but Billy stans who refuse to admit that Billy abused Max are dumb as fuck. He wasn't just yelling at her. He was manipulating and controlling her. If you go back and actually watch it, he physically puts his hands on her and hits her. He fucking throws Lucas against a goddamn wall. He threatened to run over the kids to get Max to listen to him. How many times do the Duffers have to fucking say that Billy was an abusive racist monster? By saying that he wasn't abusive, that he never hurt Max, by your very own fucked up logic that means that Neil never abused Billy. We Billy antis, we can still admit that he was abused, and we can actually sympathize with him. By down grading the abuse that Max suffered at the hands of Billy, is to downgrade the abuse Billy suffered at the hands of Neil. That's why it's called the circle of abuse, Billy wanted to take control of his pain and pass it onto Max. When he died, he was finally sorry for what he had done. In that moment, it wasn't just about saving El and the others, it was Billy standing up and ending the circle of abuse. When Billy stood up like that, it was an amazing moment. Sad, yes, but amazing that someone can finally break through all of that anger, all that pain and suffering, and do the right thing. It made me wish that we had more time, that we could have seen him try and become a better person. Dacre did a wonderful job portraying a well written antagonist. To say it was just yelling feels like quite an insult to the actor as well, because he managed to convey so many emotions. Billy is definitely a complicated character, and I enjoy hating him, but I also like him in that he clearly had potential to be better.

[steddieas-shegoes]

I'll be full of the love you want

rated t cw: self-doubt, relationship doubt, light angst tags: happy ending, hurt/comfort-ish, super fluffy romantic words being said

a/n: firstly I am writing this absolute fluff because i've been listening to sleep token and decided i could handle listening to blood sport (i couldn't) and so now we get this fluff. second of all, i feel like before anyone comes for my throat, i LOVE nancy. i hate what the duffer brothers have reduced her character to canonically. she has so much potential, just sitting there, and what are they doing with it? making her worse. i do think that she is just very bad at reading what's appropriate to say to people, and that's what happens here. assume that it gets fixed and she apologizes later, this entire thing is to focus on the boys.

Sometimes, Nancy’s subtle comments remained in Steve’s chest, an unbearable weight that felt crushing.

“Eddie has plans, and they may not involve you.”

That’s what she’d said to him when he told her they were dating.

No congratulations, no friendly smile or hug, not even the expected game of 20 questions.

The words played on loop in his head as he found an excuse to leave movie night early, as he drove home, as he took a shower. 

He barely slept that night.

Nancy was right in a way; Eddie did have plans.

—-

“She what?” Eddie yelled.

“Eds-”

“No, that’s. Stevie, you know how ridiculous that is, don’t you?”

He did. 

But he also…didn’t.

It really wasn’t that ridiculous to think that maybe his boyfriend of barely a month would have plans that didn’t involve Steve.

Steve may be head over heels in love with him, but he hadn’t said that. 

“Is it?” Steve asked, not looking up at Eddie pacing in front of him.

Eddie stopped in front of him, dropping to his knees on the floor between Steve’s parted legs.

His hands gripped Steve’s knees, squeezing in silent comfort.

“Sweetheart, I know it’s hard for you to believe, but I’m all in with us. I’m not going anywhere that you can’t or don’t want to follow. If someone sends me to the moon, you better start packing your bags,” Eddie left a kiss on his thigh, looking up at Steve’s wide, glassy eyes. “I don’t think she meant to hurt you, Stevie. I’d just talked to her about the band possibly going to Chicago for a show soon and how excited we were about producers being there.”

“And if they like you guys, you’ll leave. And you should! I don’t wanna hold you back. I just was so wrapped up in the now, ya know?” 

Eddie looked up at him, eyes squinting at him for a moment before he stood up.

He sat down on the bed and pulled Steve onto him so he was straddling his thighs.

“You are more than just my now, Steve Harrington.”

Steve’s heart fluttered in his chest.

Eddie cupped his face in his hands, leaning his head down so their foreheads rested against each other.

“We’ve seen the end of the world together, we’ve seen each other at our worst, at our bruised, at our most vulnerable. You’re my entire world now, and in the future.” Eddie let out a shaky breath, something foreign for him, usually so confident in his words. “I love you. It might scare you off, but I do. I haven’t stopped picturing my future with you in it. Nothing could drag me away from you, not the band, not the kids, not myself. I’m yours, for the long haul, wherever that takes both of us.”

Steve sniffled, the tears pooling in his eyes fighting so hard to fall.

“You can’t say stuff like that,” he squeaked out.

“Why can’t I?”

“I might believe it.”

Eddie tugged him closer, one hand on the back of his head holding him against his shoulder, one arm wrapped around his waist.

“I need you to believe it, love. There is nothing that will keep me from loving you. If Vecna himself couldn’t, then Nancy’s words sure as shit won’t.”

And it could be simple.

It could.

Steve could believe it, he could say the words back, he could plan a real future with Eddie, something he’d never been able to do with anyone else.

“You’re thinking too hard,” Eddie interrupted his thoughts, his hand squeezing Steve’s hip.

Steve pulled back, looking at Eddie’s earnest face.

“I’m scared to love you the way that I do,” Steve admitted, voice barely more than a whisper.

Eddie heard him, though.

He beamed up at Steve.

“You can be scared, but you can love me anyway,” Eddie shrugged, as if it could actually be that simple.

Love was a silly thing. 

Steve felt it easily, for Robin, for the kids, for the Byers’, even Nancy still. He’d known what he felt for Eddie was love way before this conversation, but he hadn’t realized how much that love could grow when it was reciprocated.

Eddie looked at him now like he already knew, like Steve holding back wasn’t changing the fact that Steve had loved him for months now, maybe even longer.

“You can love me, Stevie. I want you to love me. Love me the way you feel,” Eddie continued.

His words cut through his heart, but in a different way than Nancy’s had.

Steve never got to love people the way he felt, always too much, always overwhelming.

His parents taught him not to be needy, let people show their love from a distance and don’t force your attention and care on them.

Nancy taught him that he couldn’t be someone else just because he wanted to love someone, that he had to accept that love wasn’t always enough for a relationship.

Eddie, though.

Eddie had taught him that there was nothing shameful about being loud with your passion, with your love. He taught him that he can’t hold back his feelings, not for anyone, especially not for himself.

He was showing him, more every day, that loving someone can and should be fulfilling.

He couldn’t be scared of loving Eddie, not when Eddie had always shown him how to be brave.

“I love you so much,” Steve gasped out.

It wasn’t the declaration he’d planned, or even wanted, but that somehow made it better for them.

Eddie’s beaming smile proved that even further.

“I’m so in love with you, I don’t know what to do with it all. I just keep thinking that one day I’ll wake up and feel less, but I just keep feeling more. I’m not good with words like you are, but I love you,” Steve added, finally gaining his voice.

“Feels good, right?”

“To love you?”

Eddie leaned up, kissed his chin, then the corner of his mouth.

“To show it to someone who wants it.”

Steve bit his lip, realizing that yeah, it did feel good. Really good.

“You’re gonna get so tired of me loving you.”

It was said as a joke, but it was his last genuine fear. The one thing that he knew always happened.

“I will never get tired of you loving me. Not for a single second. Not even when we’re old dudes sitting on our porch yelling at the kids with the loud music,” Eddie poked his side as he spoke.

“You won’t ever yell at anyone for loud music.”

“You never know. I could become a grumpy old man. Will you still love me?” Eddie pouted up at him.

“I think I’d love any version of you. Actually, I know I would.” “And you say I’m the sappy one.”

[henrysglock]

idk, you say you don’t get worked up over your theories not coming true but it feels like whenever someone doesn’t share your headcanon that he’s gay you always shut them down quite rudely. and with no explanation? like, if you’re going to insist he’s gay, at least show us what makes you think that. and something other than patty saying “i like the gay ones best” because that’s just not solid evidence. she was talking about happy songs in that scene

So I guess this means nothing?

Because if that ^^ counts as subtextual proof of Will and Mike being gay, then so does "I like the gay ones best/then lets make it a gay one". You don't get to pick and choose which subtext is meaningful. I guess Troy really was just talking about Will finally being happy and [checks notes] happy. In literal fairyland with all the other literal fairies!

I guess this doesn't have any gay subtext in it either:

All it means is that Will drew a rainbow ship, nothing more. The curtains are just blue because the writer likes the color blue. I am very intelligent :)

Re: Henry, try on—

Henry avoiding kissing Patty until he's cornered into it.

Henry watching the male dancers in the Vegas dream sequence and trying to copy their moves, but refusing to dance when Patty asks him to.

Henry trying to be "normal" by dating Patty vs Mike doing his best to be "normal" by dating El. I guess Mike's not gay either, now.

Henry being imprisoned in a literal rainbow room in the conversion-therapy-coded laboratory for 20 years.

The only instance of Henry being involved with a girl in any way happens in a play with aspects that exist entirely outside the bounds of reality, and he and this girl are "connected, whether [he likes] it or not".

Henry being in shambles over some unnamed boy he accidentally hurt and had to leave behind in Nevada, but not being nearly as devastated over the things that go wrong with Patty.

Henry being described as sensitive, just like Will was when Joyce said Lonnie used to say he was queer/a fag

But again, nothing in that. The curtains are blue because blue is a nice color.

I'm not going to get worked up if the Duffers give me a good season, even if it doesn't hit every single theory I've had. As long as the season is good.

What I do get worked up about is having answered the same questions 55348084539048 times, with the askers getting more and more antagonistic each time. I've given my proof. I've done the work. It's on you guys to stop cherry-picking, now.

[stranger-things-yapper]

After 5 minutes of looking at S4 gifs I have become a Ronance truther and my hate for the Duffer Brothers has grown yet again

Because WHAT ARE THEY DOING

This post is long, so here is a little summary: I will recap what they have established of Nancy until S3, then explain what those things COULD have lead to in S4, and then complain about how they just took several left turns. Then, at the end, I will talk about the implications of the things I said in representation in media, good and bad.

Ok, so first, a little recap:

• S1 Nancy: doesn't like the path her mother went on of marrying an older man with money because she got pregnant. Doesn't like how Jonathan clocked her immediately as trying to rebel by doing exactly what every girl like her does - sneaking out, getting drunk and having sex. Gets very close to Jonathan, but ultimately ends up with Steve, who has since become less of an asshole.

• S2 Nancy: Doesn't like how things with Steve are shaping up. Recognizes that at this rate, she will be married to him right after college, probably too much like her mother before her. She understands that Steve does not care about the same things she does (Steve wants a normal life forgetting everything, Nancy wants justice for Barbara) and throws her frustrations at his face while drunk. She finds that Jonathan also thinks justice should be served, so they band together. Murray tells them that Jonathan has trust issues and Nancy doesn't accept who she really is, and they sleep together after drinking. She goes back to Hawkins and finds Steve being a good babysitter, and that seems to flutter something in her, maybe regret.

• S3 Nancy: (this is a bit blurry because I haven't rewatched S3 yet) She and Jonathan have a internship on a local newspaper, which puts a wedge between them for the first time. Nancy wants to be respected, but the constant humiliation by her higher-ups hurts her deeply, so she wants to prove herself, which makes her act, frankly, stupid. Jonathan sees her defiance of the rules as a threat to his job security, and they butt heads about it. Her wayward investigation wields fruits, so Jonathan apologizes to her. She doesn't apologize to Jonathan for not taking his well-being into account. (I feel the need to stresss that there was no bad guy here - Nancy has rich privilege, Jonathan has male privilege, none of them really understood what the other was going through.) Steve mentions to Robin that he loved Nancy, but he ends up confessing to her and she comes out to him. This is important for later. At the end of the season, Jonathan moves to California with his family, and we are unclear on what will become of their relationship.

Okay, so we have Nancy having not been understood by Steve, then not being understood by Jonathan, then being at least physically alone by the end of S3. This is important for later.

I'd like to make a tangent about Steve and how his entire personal arc in S3 was trying to move on from Nancy, and becoming even less of an asshole by just accepting, with no prejudice, that the object of his newfound attraction is queer.

Now, in season 4, we pair Nancy, who seems constantly unsure about her relationships, with Steve, who's trying to move on from her, Robin, who is sure enough she only likes girls to reject Steve's confession (even though having a boyfriend would make her life easier given the times), and Eddie, the King of the Freaks himself, visually as outcast as it gets.

So, if you asked me, which nobody does, given how Nancy's conflict was HEAVILY escalated by misogyny and not being understood by the men in her life back in S3, I'd say pairing her with the ONE CONFIRMED LESBIAN in the entire show would, you know, LEAD TO SOMETHING BETWEEN THEM.

You could even recontextualize Steve's arc in S3 (and the tension between him and Billy in S2, let's be honest) as a basis for him to try and "cast a longer net", if you will, and be more open about forgetting Nancy not with another girl, but maybe with a boy. Bi representation wins, or whatever.

Does that happen in S4? Absolutely not. Even though:

▪︎ Robin and Nancy spend A LONG TIME JUST THE TWO OF THEM

▪︎ It's never explicitly shown in S3 if there was a jancy breakup or not, and there would be enough time in between seasons for them to realize long-distance isn't working, and break things off

▪︎ There was NO PLOT RELEVANT REASON to keep jancy together after an unearned apology and Nancy's realization that her and Jonathan are not as in sync as she hoped

▪︎ Robin clearly is affected by Nancy's presence, and they freaking TELL THE AUDIENCE in S4how she acts when she's trying to talk with a girl and that's exactly how she talks with Nancy

▪︎ 8 months single/away from your romantic partner in your teens is plenty of freaking time to explore some stuff about yourself

▪︎ Steve had so little to do in S4 that he might as well pick up on some Robin and Nancy electricity and realize that he's not as jealous as he should be if he still loved her.

And look, I know this is not a perfect rewrite or anything. Having Nancy be a badass without being a lesbian goes a long way for avoiding stereotypes. So does having Eddie be flamboyant without being queer. Having Steve be straight as a rod (however debatable that is to me) and still accept Robin without hesitation, despite his own attraction to her even, is great for representing allyship. I freaking love Vickie's actress and I really want her to shine with Robin in S5 since she was so underutilized in S4. I also don't like how Robin's character changed from S3 to S4, so using her dialogue about not being able to talk to girls in S4 in my reasoning feels counterintuitive.

But putting these 4 characters together for the entire season, without acknowledging their paths before this, feels like they are just unaware of what has been built throughout the show. It honestly feels, actually, that they were aware of the logical progression of these storylines, and they specifically worked to deviate from it.

Here, let's have Nancy be actually jealous of Robin because she thinks she's with Steve. Here, let's have Steve be fully tits out in front of Nancy so she can check him out. Let's have Eddie notice whatever crumbs about their interactions and practically say "it's love, she loves you, go get her". Let's sprinkle Vickie as Robin's true love interest, let's have HER be the lesbian and not Nancy.

It just... feels weird and disjointed. RoNance being canon would make much more sense with the what they have been providing so far.

[frozenfrogz]

Here is my bullet point list about all the reasons byler is endgame from what I can think of off the top of my head.

The whole garage scene in the first ever episode. Need I say more about that example??

The way Mike looks at Will. I can't say this enough, but the way he looks at him literally melts me. He has such a soft look in his eyes that he doesn't use on anyone else but Will.

The way Mike talks to Will. Again, you can tell the difference in his tone when talking to Will versus talking to the others. It makes me fold into fucking origami. He cares about him so deeply he has his own tone of voice for Will. (The Will voice)

The scene Finn said was his favorite, but the Duffers didn't end up adding it. This scene was Mike riding away from the quarry on his bike crying. They didn't even consider a scene like that for the others. Only for Mike, they thought about having a moment like that.

THE. FUCKING. VAN. SCENE. I cried on that one. People way argue that was Will, 'ripping off the band-aid', but that wasn't it at all. Will was trying to rip the band-aid, but it's not going to stay that way. There's so much more to that scene but I'm going to break it down ⬇️

The painting. Will put a whole ass heart on Mike's shield. Wills' whole speech thing had me with tears in my eyes. He was pouring his whole heart into that, and I was eating it up. The heart light reflecting in Mike's eye was enough for me. When Mike talks to El about the painting, I'm going to be inches away from the screen. I have been waiting for that scene ever since Will said El commissioned the painting. 'I think Wills is making it for someone he likes.' (Idk if that's actually how it goes, but whatever you get the idea) Yes, in fact, he was El. Your boyfriend.

Season 2 is honestly all the evidence I need for byler endgame. Mike staying by Wills side and sleeping next to him. When Will woke up suddenly and Mike instantly woke up as well to comfort him. Trick or treating and Mike yelling at Dustin that's he's got Will and can take him home. 'Home' being Mike's house. The whole putting his (Mikes) hand on Wills when Will was starting to freak out. I'm in pain.

I could go on, but my fingers are starting to hurt and I said I would make this like five days ago and still haven't don't it.

Here it is @merth-or-nothin I hope you like it!