#and my anons who don’t understand you can dislike someone without being delusional

[tim-hoe-wan]

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[bookofmirth]

Hi

I'm not up to date with all the drama in this fandom bc i tend to scroll past it. But being a reader of the books before I landed in these fandoms, I'm utterly shocked about how people treat eachother.

I'm very neutral on this stupid ship war going on. I tend to fall more for Elriel. But I understand everyone's opinion. I used to read all the book analysis, but now it just seems so exhausting. I get that people love books and ship different people. That's normal, everyone has different taste etc i'm just here trying to understand why we need to bring other human beings down in order to push our own narrative.

Since when is it okay to do that???? Can't we have a normal conversation without sending death treats?

I normally don't really respond to anything that involves drama. But these last couples of months have gotten me to dislike the books more and more solely because of these, may I call them blandly, horrible people.

And i'm very sad to have to admit that i'm also getting sick of the art of the multiple ships. Which that's horrible because I love what all these amazing artists create. But the hate they receive and the comments just make me hate it all more,this whole fandom with all these toxic people ruining it for me personally.

Can't we all just agree that we like these books, and respect eachother as human beings, no matter what everyone else thinks? And maybe wait and see what the author writes? In the end it are still her books and she will have the final say in everything.

I wish SJM would release the next book sooner so all this hate would stop, then again i don't know if it will stop. They will likely continue and probably bother SJM too...

Thank you for listening to me ranting, you always seem very nice to people with different opinions, so I thought i might as well rant a bit too.

Have a lovely day!!

Hello! Thank you for this message! I think it's really helpful for people to see because they can see the impact of the things they are doing and saying in the fandom. There are a lot of people who feel comfortable being vocal in the fandom, but I gotta say, if I were just joining now, I'm not sure that would be me. I wonder how many people walk in, take a look around, and walk the fuck back out. I probably would.

I got on my soap box a little bit because I was thinking about some of the things you've said!

I was just talking with some friends, some of whom I've been in the fandom with since 2017, some who are newer. And we all 1000% agree with you. It's so, so frustrating that the fandom has gotten so nasty to the point where we've become so separated from each other that we can't have a single civil conversation. Where people of color don't feel safe, and where a lot of the fandom doesn't even seem to care about that.

When I first joined the fandom, there were definitely people who shipped one way and people who shipped another, but we were still able to have conversations with each other. There would be these really, really long posts that were chains of people commenting on posts and reblogging, then someone adding on their thoughts, then op would respond, etc. Yeah, the posts were super long to scroll through, but there was so much engagement, ya know? And it was genuine, too. We could disagree or say "hey OP I like this point, but have you thought of X?" And it was great! (I even have a tag for it, #long post tag, because I once got an anon who was annoyed at how long my conversations with people would be 💀so I made that tag for people who wanted to block those posts.)

I'm not going to pretend it was perfect - there were definitely people I didn't get along with. But that wasn't a fandom thing, that was just a personality thing. And I never in a million years expected those people to fly off the handle and start attacking me anon, or to ss my posts to make fun of elsewhere. Now, that's a constant fear hanging over everyone's heads.

It has created an extreme echo chamber. I would genuinely like having those old fandom discussions where people would comment - in the open, on reblogs - and then we could all engage in that discussion in public. Now, all of that discussion happens in private, in groupchats and Discord. And don't get me wrong, Discord is super fun. But it also means that 1) people who aren't in those groups have no idea wtf is going on when we vague, although I try not to do that anyway, and 2) when people are in those groups they egg each other on to be worse and worse. Worse than they would have been if they were on their own and didn't feel like they had a group of people there to support their asshole behavior. tbh, I have to check myself sometimes and think, "would I do this if I hadn't just gotten into a rant conversation with friends on Discord?"

And what you said about fan art, it's so frustrating!!! Since when did fan art become a battle ground??? Since when did the appearance of fan art = a win for one ship or the other?? Why can't the comments of those arts ever just be nice and appreciative of the work someone has put into it? Honestly, it makes me paranoid to write fanfic, too! I mean, is that next???

I totally agree with you that we should be able to respect each other as people. We used to be able to do that. I hate to admit it, but I have so many people blocked now because I just don't trust them. I don't trust them to be civil, I don't trust them to be able to see my posts, I don't trust them to even read what I've written without misconstruing everything I've said.

I'm not sure if people realize that there is a big difference between this:

I don't like X ship

And this:

People who like X ship are delusional

The first one is okay! It's normal! Like you said, we all have feelings and interpretations and stuff we would prefer to see or not see!

The second one, not okay! Stop insulting people, people!!!!

The idea of engaging in a normal, healthy debate with a huge portion of the fandom is such a foreign concept to me at this point, and it never used to be. There could be a lot of reasons for this. And I always try to avoid pointing fingers because I know that not everyone is like that, though I'm sure I have slipped into that from time to time.

I think it would help if we stop seeing each other as a gwynriel or an elucien or an elriel, and start seeing each other as individuals. When acosf first came out, I started noticing a trend where people would send me asks and write them as if they were writing to every single person who ships elucien, or as if they were writing to every single person who holds a certain opinion about Azriel. It was really confusing at first, and I'm gonna request that the fandom stop doing that altogether, to everyone. If you want to engage with someone, engage with that person, not your idea of who they are and what they think.

I'm down for conversations where we talk about the series and what might come next as possibilities, because that's all this is, so far. Anyone who says that "X thing will never happen" is making some bold claims, and it's really off-putting to people who know that that's not why we are here. It's not a contest where we "win" canon. It's fandom, where we talk about what we like and what we don't like and what we want and cross our fingers and hope.

EDIT I wanted to add on one thing - a lot of this behavior is incredibly shocking and disgusting and I think that we, as a fandom, need to be better at 1) calling it out, and 2) not assuming that whoever did X horrible thing represents all people from that corner of the fandom.

I hope that you have a lovely day as well! And that the fandom doesn't get you too down. @heleencollier

[hongism]

Hello again Caly 👋🏻 It's been a while, I'm sorry. I’m the anon that messaged you about asking for advice/your opinion on something related to writing a while ago. 🥺 So basically my question would be: what's your stance on writing fan fiction for real people? Do you think it’s fine or kind of weird and why do you think so?

I’ve also written out my background/thoughts for context. You can totally skip that, I just thought it might make sense to explain where I’m coming from. I’m sorry in advance for the wall of text that will follow. I’m very bad at keeping it short. 😭

So, I used to be a writer. I started out with kpop fan fiction when I was around 14 (I’m 24 now), but I stopped writing for kpop groups when I was around 17. From then on I wrote fan fiction for fictional characters, mostly anime characters, but I stopped sometime last year. I still have a lot of unfinished ideas I want to write, a lot of them include fictional characters, but others include real people, like the Ateez members or another group’s members, and that's the problem. Let me explain a little further: After a very painful breakup in the second half of last year I got back into kpop. More than ever. While I was casually listening to a few groups before, I suddenly started getting into like 10 groups within a really short amount of time (got7, mx, dreamcatcher, everglow, skz, svt, oneus etc. just to name a few). It’s been great so far, because the music and the groups are kind of a safe haven to me (if that makes sense). I mean, Kpop really helps me cope and kind of escape or make reality a little easier, I'm sure there are more people out there who feel the way I do. I wouldn’t say I’m overly obsessed or anything, but Kpop just is my biggest source of comfort right now, so sometimes I wonder "isn’t this a bit much?“. It’s a difficult topic. But anyways, of course one of the groups I got into was Ateez, otherwise I probably wouldn't be here writing this right now. So I listened to fireworks when it came out and I was impressed and instantly fell in love with them. A little while after that, when I still couldn’t match all of their names with their faces, I started browsing the ao3 tag out of curiosity and I stumbled across moc. I absolutey fell in love with the story and every aspect of it. It also inspired me to write myself again! I've had so many old and new ideas flood my mind, but I really haven't gotten around to write anything yet, because the fact that I'd be writing fan fiction for real people as an adult woman makes me feel kind of uneasy? But I don’t want it to make me feel uneasy! You know? I think it should be fine as long as you’re capable of differentiating reality from fiction. And as an adult with common sense you usually can do that, right? But I’ve seen many people, mostly on tumblr and twitter, say that it’s just weird and wrong and that it automatically makes you a delusional and obsessive fan. So now I’m torn between wanting to realize all the ideas I have (Big thanks to you, because you, your blog and moc are a huge inspiration for me 💕 also moc is without a doubt the best fan fiction I’ve ever read. It’s just an absolutely impressive and thrilling story) and feeling like I’m not supposed or allowed to do that? I hope that makes sense. I know there’s a million other things I wanted to tell you, but I think that’s enough for now. If this is a discussion that interests you, I might comeback with my two cents. 😳 Anyways, I hope I was able to convey my inner conflict and my feelings and everything. 🥺 English isn’t my first language so it was a bit difficult to phrase everything in a way that felt right. Thank you so so much for taking the time to read and answer this. I appreciate it A LOT. I hope you have a great week ahead of you! 🥰🥰🥰

hello hun i'm sorry it took me so long to respond to your ask!! i wanted to make sure to set aside some time so i could be as thorough as possible in my response and give you my thoughts as clearly as possible!

so this debate has been something i've dealt with and struggled with a lot over the years of consuming fanfiction and creating it. i started out writing fanfiction of media like anime before getting into kpop, and it took me around 3 years to even start reading kpop fanfiction. every once in a while, the debate of whether or not real person fanfiction is okay or not comes up, and that does always discourage me. i wish i could be like 'yeah im solidly set in this opinion!' but i do still get discouraged myself, and that's something i think a lot of people struggle with! i resonate a lot with how you feel and what your opinions are and how much music and kpop means to you. i also get those worries of 'isn't this a bit much?' and such and it's a difficult thing to talk about and think about, but as you said, i think there is a line when it comes to fanfiction and life and reality

i have no issue with real person fanfiction. i tend to not read or write 'idol' aus because it feels a little too real for my comfort zone, but i will say that the people who dislike it are loud. they're hard to ignore and avoid. you aren't delusional or obsessive for enjoying fanfiction. it's called fan FICTION, meaning it's not real and it should not be meant to be real. it should be fine as long as you're able to draw the line and say 'this is not real and it will never be'. i think it's okay in some instances to be like 'man i wish i could live in this universe' while still realizing it's not real and you're not trying to force it down anyone's throats. that's the biggest thing in my mind. as long as you are not trying to shove it in these idols' faces or psychoanalyze them and their relationships, it's okay.

if someone doesn't like fanfiction, it's easy to just take a step back and say 'okay i won't talk about it/share it with you'. you can really cater your own experiences, decide what you want to see or don't want to see, but a lot of people complain about 'having' to see it. pretty much every single fanfic writer i've spoken to and encountered says they NEVER want someone to send a fanfic to an idol/the person who is in it, which is good and i think the best course of action when it comes to fanfic.

all in all, fanfic exists, it's out there, and it's FICTION. it's not real, it's not meant to be shoved in other people's faces, it's not meant to be shared with the idols who are characters in it, and most often the idols are 'place-holders' for characters. what i mean by that is they are a common place for a lot of people, something recognizable and enjoyable, but the personalities and way they're written will always differ across the board. you could think of it almost as a canvas, a person you like being a canvas for you to paint your words and stories on. writing fanfiction about kpop does not make you any less or more of a fan, it doesn't mean you don't respect and care about these idols as human beings and people, and the biggest thing to worry about is simply understanding and respecting your boundaries as a fan by not sharing it/shoving it in the idols' face.

i hope this all makes sense and isn't coming off the wrong way? but i also hope it helps you feel better and understand how i feel!! you say english isn't your first language, but i would NEVER have guessed, your english is absolutely perfect and understandable <3 thank you so much for trusting me and talking to me about this, i'm very grateful and thankful for it and your sweet words about my works 🥺💕

[masterthespianduchovny]

Honestly, I don't understand what some GA supporters, Gillovny haters and David haters, which I believe are mixed groups, against David and a friendship, albeit at a distance and occasionally with Gillian. At SM, the haters draw him as if he were the same arrogant actor who was portrayed in the 90s, who didn't have a friendly off-screen relationship with Gillian (hello, they are both very introverted and worked 17 hours together. How much could they handle this work overload? (to be continued..)

 Are these followers afraid that GA is getting involved with a "rapist/misogynist", just because his have a relationship with a 27-years-old girl? Why did David write about incest is his last book? Why did he say that he wouldn't like to with Gillian on anything but The X Files? Why was he openly a sex addict? And this arguments being based entirely on facts and gossip from 15/20 /25 years ago?

People draw David as if he were a maniac who can attack Gillian at any time, and that she doesn't know his true nature, so he has a relationship. It's amazing how people make assumptions based on the past things and don't even bother to keep up with what they're doing today. And even worse: they think they can govern your personal lives. I saw it from Gillovnys in the past, and now i see it in these groups.

I read these anons earlier and spent some time thinking about your remarks and the larger implications of certain accusations and DD/GA’s relationship. This response way longer than I intended, but like I said, I spend some time thinking about your comments. And when I say it’s long, I mean it’s long.

Anti’s alleged issues with DD is a combination of things: misogyny, sexism, homophobia, pedophilia, and being friends with an alleged sex trafficker.

David has said some homophobic, misogynistic, and sexist remarks. It’s one of those things that, although a handful of people knew better, his views were “normal” back then. This isn’t to excuse David, but rather, provide context. Because there’s problematic shit and beliefs from 10 and even 5 years ago. The question I ask myself is: has David unpacked these beliefs? Is he learning and growing?

The fact that they have to dig into shit from the 90s to find shit on him says A LOT. Maybe he’s learned to keep those views to himself OR maybe he realized that some of his beliefs were fucked up and left them in the past. I’m not saying that no one can’t be upset about what he said or even dislike him now because of it. However, I don’t think people who genuinely dislike him are sending hate anons to people because they like him.

I really don’t like talking about the pedophilia and him “knowing” he’s friends with a sex trafficker accusations because, even when accusations are proven to be false, someone will believe there's truth to them. It taints a person and that's generally speaking. The reason I’m addressing them now and with you is because I want to be transparent about what’s going on with Antis and my issues with them. I don’t want to be accused of bias or protecting DD because I’m “hiding” the truth.

This man in Hollywood accused David of being sexually inappropriate with a minor who later became his wife. Apparently, this happened in David’s trailer during the original run of the X-Files and was well known on set. This revelation occurred during the Me Too era, like when accusations were hot and took just about everyone accused of impropriety down. For reference, Harvey Weinstein, a powerful producer with more money and influence, was taken down. Louis CK, well respected before his victims came out. Pre Me Too: Bill Cosby. Aziz Ansari. Hell, even some of the faces of the movement were taken down.

So, this Hollywood dude claimed on twitter that David was touching on a minor while at work and EVERYONE on set knew, but somehow this story never caught on. Virtually no media outlets picked this up. And this accusation is worse than the Aziz accusation and he was torn to shreds as his career took a hit. But David can be accused of this horrendous thing and no one reacts to it??? Apparently, he must have better lawyers than Harvey, Louis, etc because the rumors never even took flight. AND, I believe the thread is still up too. Not even crazed right wingers or pizza gate fanatics were interested in this story. However, since David is involved with a significantly younger woman this means that that rumor is true. 

The thing is: there’s implications to this accusation that the antis didn’t think of and they got mad at me and others about it.

They said that Gillian hated David, didn't talk to him, and ignored him as much as she could because she knew about all of this. So, I asked, “If she knew David was a predator, why did she keep working with him? If you argue it was due to contract reasons, why did she work with him on IWTB and Seasons 10 and 11? Why didn’t she report him?”

Me and others were accused of holding women accountable for mens’ actions. But that still doesn’t answer the question, right? If Gillian hated David because he’s a predator, why did she still work with him? Her “hate” was supposed to be “proof” that he was morally corrupt. Since Gillian “hated” David, we’re supposed to hate David.

Another layer: David’s friends with a guy who allegedly is a sex trafficker, which to Antis mean that David knows and is okay with this. They’re friends, how could he not know???

This is important to note because they switch between Gillian knowing David is a “predator” and not knowing depending on the argument. So, when they swore up and down that she hated him, Gillian “knew.” Now that Gillian and David confirmed they are friends in some capacity, “just because she’s friends with him doesn’t mean she knows everything about him.”

Interesting, right?

They used examples of Harvey Weinstein and Ted Bundy to prove how someone can hide despicable acts after swearing up and down Gillian KNEW, which is why they weren’t friends. And, if you’re thinking...well what about David’s friend who allegedly is a sex trafficker, wouldn’t the same logic apply to him?

BINGO.

There are a million excuses and justifications when you apply their logic to Gillian, but they never give David the benefit of the doubt. They never critically examine any information they’re given if it paints David in a bad light. Then they put their heads in the sand if this info implicates Gillian. And the sad part is that I can go on a longer rant tearing their accusations apart.

There isn’t any consistency from Antis. I’d respect them if they’d dropped Gillian because she’s friends with the “predator” they hate. But no, their stance and justification changes so she's always in a good light.

You see how low they're willing to stoop to justify their hate. They aren’t content with disliking David, they need others to hate him too. They're too invested to admit they were wrong because then they’d have to face how foolish they looked hating David on the behalf of Gillian who doesn’t hate him at all. All that energy and hate for nothing.

Lastly, I genuinely do believe Antis are afraid that David and Gillian may be fucking or, at least, that casual fans will come to that conclusion. Think about it: who reacts like this to two people, who many thought hated each other, essentially announcing they are friends?

Who?

These are two adults with (an) adult kid(s). And they could literally become grandparents at any time. lol. These are two people who have known each other for damn near 30 years and Antis think they know David and Gillian better than they know each other.

But a simple photo got them rattled because they HAVE TO admit Gillian’s friends with David. She inadvertently put them in a corner and the only way out of it is to admit something they mocked others for believing. Their other options would fall into Gillovny thinking: they're fucking or dating.

And that’s what they’re really upset about.

They were left with options that fell into Gillovny thinking and had to choose the lesser of the evils. And they can’t say David and Gillian aren’t friends without looking delusional. Especially when they don’t have their handy dandy convenient excuses of “promo” for the x files or a charity. lol. Especially when they took a personal photo together and posted it online.

And I guess that’s the beauty of the picture: you’re only left with three options. Because, if you take friendship off the table, there is no other way to explain why David was there that doesn’t suggest them being intimately acquainted with each other.

I’ll say this: Antis don’t care about facts if the facts can’t be used as ammunition to shit on someone even if they have to distort it.

Now I know this is long and I’ve discussed things you didn’t intend, but I guess I needed this rant. LOL. Some Gillovnies and David fans may be upset that I discussed those topics, but most of the people on my blog either already heard about this OR have read me discuss it before.

Either way, Antis are hypocrites and shouldn’t be taken seriously.

[a-bnha-shoutorealm]

Love letter to the BNHA fandom

I don't know if it is my place to speak. I am new to the fandom and I might have been lucky enough to avoid the most toxic interactions.

It breaks my heart to see the fandom so harsh towards itself though, because I have literally never seen a fandom like this. In a good way. Maybe I stumbled upon bad communities in the past, I don't know, but I've never seen a fandom so welcoming, able to debate and analyze in a healthy way, and so open towards ships (I didn't even know the term multishipper was a thing).

TW : Discourse. I feel like the read more is mostly positive, but I do mention debates, ships, toxicity and analyses. Let me know if I forgot something and I will add it!

Anime-only and manga readers walk side by side. The fandom never made me feel like a fraud for not reading the manga, or not reading vigilantes, or not knowing light novels existed until today. I've never been called a fake fan because of that. Anime-only and manga readers are able to have actual discussions, able to exchange with each other, and share their love for certain characters. Not only that, but regarding the anime, most people don't even look down upon the dub either. This is astounding! The movies and the OVAs receive actual praises, people are genuinely excited about the announcement of the new movie... This is incredible and I sincerely believe this fandom to be welcoming and positive in their approach of new content.

The analyses you can find in this fandom are insanely detailed. When something is wrong, people mention why. They take the time to say why this specific point is invalid, but also that they agree with other parts of the analysis. Even opinions that turn into debate are elaborated with moments from the anime/manga, proofs to back them up whether it is to spread love for a character or mention why you dislike someone. These exchanges are important. It gives you a new perspective on some parts of the story, it makes you see characters in a new light… and people are usually very respectful when they disagree. I've almost never seen someone disagreeing without first stating "I think", "I feel", "I'm not sure", making it clear that /they/ see things differently. That their experiences or values brings them to have a different opinion. This is huge. This is rare, healthy, and this community can be proud of its thoughtfulness and its ability to open discussion.

Ships. This is the most touchy part, ships are usually a pretty heated topic in almost any fandom. I know some ships are called names, even toxic, I'm not that delusional, but there are a lot of things that this fandom does right. I’ve seen actual discussions on both sides of a ship, with full-length analyses of why a ship would work or why it wouldn't. I’ve also seen both sides agreeing on certain aspects : “Of course, this would need to happen for the ship to work”/”But yes this aspect of the ship is very interesting”. It blows my mind everytime. It’s amazing, and rare, and precious. I know some people might disagree with this part because they feel like they shouldn't have to defend their ship or to say why some of them wouldn't work, and I respect that. I know I have a bias there because I love to discuss ship and analyze character dynamics. I still think there are very positive points to how the fandom approaches ships. Like the number of people who understand the reasons behind a ship, even if they don't like it (I feel like it's not the same as defending a ship through analysis, because you can stop at "I don't like X, but I understand what people see in it." - then again, biased in favor of debates and analysis), or how widespread and accepted the concept of multishipping is. Coming back to the first point, I've never seen anyone in the fandom calling someone a fake fan for being a multishipper.

Of course, I should have added a “mostly” to all of these points. The fandom is not perfect. These positive aspects won't make hate anon disappear, ship wars are still a thing, harsh words and name calling can happen, but I do not think the situation is worse than other fandoms.

A lot of good and bad things can come from being the fandom of a popular serie, and BNHA is huge, but considering how large the audience is, I think this fandom is doing pretty damn good.

[orionsangel86]

So, after a long conversation with super-powerful-queen-slaynna, whom you can thank for me sending this message, so like... if you like it good, if you don't blame them, I do want to apologize for assuming you were saying people can't talk about Destiel, its shippers and how much they dislike it in their group chats. That's what the post came off to me, as if you were policing what people could and couldn't say in these GC about Destiel. Slaynna made me realiza that you meant your post as a 1/2

warning to Destiel shippers who might wander into them. I understand this, because whenever a Destiel shipper follows me, I make it a point to warn them my blog might not be a positive space for them precisely to avoid this sort of unplesant interactions. It also came off as you were invalidating and dismissing the bad experiences people might have had with misbehaving Destiel shippers, which I'm sure you're nice enough NOT to do. My beef is really not with you, or Tink, or any other Destiel 2/?

meta writer, my beef is with shippers who are genuinely hateful and do hateful things. You simply came off as you didn't believe there are Destiel shippers who do these things at all. That say, I won't apologize for venting to like-minded people about my utter dislike for the ship, because we do in fact do that. But I don't think it's fair you walked in on us at that point and extrapolated that's all we do. BTW there is in fact an Anti-Destiel GC and the irony is, if you had walked into that 3/4

one 24hrs earlier, you would have in fact found people gushing about Megstiel and Sastiel, LMAO. 4/4

...

Okay, I’ll give you pointers for being bold enough to come explain this in my ask box, and I commend @super-powerful-queen-slayyna for reaching out to try to calm the stormy seas. I am most likely not going to make any further comments on that post anyway because it has blown out of control and has escalated into a full blown ship war post which I never wanted when I sent it. It’s now Destiel shippers and my friends trying to defend me or people blatantly calling me names and using unnecessary language which I am not even going to acknowledge or give the time of day as I don’t go in for that sort of childish name calling (unless you count my use of the word bronly but some things I think even we can agree are a necessary evil).

My post was a response to my own hurt and irritation at coming across two GCs, one for Sastiel, and one for Megstiel, which were both recommended to me by Tumblr, which were not tagged as anti-Destiel that I could see, that appeared on the surface to simply be places for people to discuss and squee over those ships. In both GCs I saw nothing but hate and lies and other upsetting comments about Destiel and Destiel shippers. It was extremely disheartening to see that in what on the surface appeared to be safe spaces. Because here’s the thing, these shipper GCs should be safe spaces. I have friends that are multishippers, that like Sastiel (and even the odd few who like Megstiel even though admittedly I don’t anymore.) There are plenty of other people out there in fandom that might like all three ships (I’d imagine those people simply want Cas to have all the love in which case SAME). 

To get one point very clear, I don’t actually care if people hate Destiel. I’m not going to preach to anyone about Destiel unless someone comes to me directly or comes scrolling my blog. I always tag Destiel so anyone who uses Tumblr blacklist should be able to avoid my blog completely. I would never intentionally go looking in an anti Destiel chat group. I’ve seen it all before anyway and it’s the same old arguments that really don’t affect my shipping preferences or my beliefs. 

What annoyed me was that those GCs were not anti Destiel chats. They were Megstiel and Sastiel chats. They were places where impressionable young Megstiel and Sastiel shippers could come across, who have zero feelings towards Destiel, and find themselves being told a bunch of lies and nasty crap about Destiel shippers and the ship. They are places where Destiel shippers who like to ship those other ships too might come across and suddenly find themselves isolated and alienated, which only perpetuates retaliation from those Destiel shippers and potentially causes the hate that you stress is so virulent among Destiel shippers to begin with.

My post was a warning for multishippers who are also Destiel shippers or at least Destiel friendly, that those GCs were being used to spread hate about Destiel. It was also an FYI to the people in those GCs that their hatred was very much public, in case they weren’t aware. I tagged the ships because I wanted people who ship Megstiel and Sastiel to see it, especially if they are Destiel friendly, because yeah, I’d want them to avoid those GCs.

Yes I then got snarky. I claimed that this does kinda prove a point because no Destiel GC that I’ve seen includes a bunch of hate and nastiness aimed at other ships. Sure, there is a high chance that there are hateful Destiel shippers out there. There are certainly a lot of bitter people on Twitter who piss me off when they scream queerbaiting at the writers so yes, of course there are bad eggs. I was shocked that from what I saw, there was no squee or shared theories or excitement about the ships, just page after page of hate aimed at Destiel shippers. So yes, perhaps I happened upon both convos right when those topics cropped up (which would be rather coincidental) and perhaps I had just missed the topics that I was interested in checking out - the theories, the meta, the spec... That’s what I was interested in. Since these GCs are a way to keep a finger on the pulse of what the fandom might be thinking in terms of the show and shipping and I was curious. Believe it or not I actually like to keep an open mind even though Megstiel is something that gives me a bad taste in my mouth ever since I sat myself down and truly thought about it. 

I generalised. I know I shouldn’t have done that, but those GC convos pissed me off. I don’t know a single Destiel shipper who would spend hours of their day just ranting about how awful Megstiel shippers are and how much they hate the pairing. I HAVE debated with friends about the suspected infiltration of the Megstiel ship by Bronlies who are using Meg to get Cas out of the way and to be spiteful towards Destiel shippers. This IS something that has been happening in recent years and I think even you admitted that in one of your replies to my post.

I also wasn’t trying to invalidate your experience with hate. I would never do that. The one thing I will say about anon hate in particular is that you don’t know who it is coming from. I occasionally get anon hate but I certainly don’t immediately assume it’s a w*ncest shipper just because I can’t stand w*ncest. Getting a message in your ask box that says “go kill yourself” is horrible, believe me, I know. But if that’s all it is, you can’t assume the sender was a shipper at all. Unless the message was “I ship Destiel and you can go kill yourself” you just can’t assume. If you have had actual Destiel shippers come and attack and threaten you and send you those messages directly then 1. I am so so sorry because no one deserves that kind of abuse, and 2. I hope you exposed them if you could. Because if there is one thing I have learnt about the Destiel shippers in MY circles, it’s that we find that kind of behaviour completely unacceptable and we WILL call it out from our own side if we see it. 

The reason I have such a high opinion of Destiel shippers being the “nice” people in fandom is simply because I have never seen that kind of behaviour from them. I interact with a lot of people. I have seen Destiel shippers get overly passionate, I have seen them get upset and angry when people lash out at them. I have seen them turn bitter and negative and go off on rants about the show. I have seen them dog pile on an anti’s post to provide evidence against a false claim “Kripke said he’s straight” and I thought it was a bit much... but it wasn’t hate. It was a reaction to years and years and years of being laughed at, called delusional, mocked and ridiculed by all other sides within the fandom. Destiel shippers are desperate for validation. They are desperate to disprove the lies. If people actually listened to us, or read the countless posts that have been written clearly providing evidence and sources to disprove every lie and false claim against Destiel perhaps we wouldn’t be so defensive. That’s what happens when you’ve been gaslighted for 11 years. 

But regardless, I’m not here to get involved in shipping wars. You’ll continue going on hating Destiel, and I will continue going on and, well, not hating, but very much disliking Megstiel in canon (though I have read some very sweet Destiel fics where Meg is Cas’s best friend and enjoyed the characterisations there.) 

My post was never to gatekeep and stop you from ranting about Destiel. Rant away to your hearts content. As I said above I really don’t care if people hate it. All I ask, is that you keep that kind of content in places that are clearly labelled as anti Destiel. So that should a Destiel shipper want to check out a Sastiel or a Megstiel GC, they can do, without feeling completely unwelcome and hated on just for enjoying Dean and Cas’s relationship as well. I really don’t think that’s too much to ask. All it takes is one tag right? Create your Megstiel GC and by all means rant about Destiel in it, but please just tag it as Anti Destiel.

Thank you for reaching out to me and explaining your side of things. I do appreciate it. 

[iamanartichoke]

This is neither eloquent nor organized. I’m very frustrated and I just need to get things off my chest. 

Please do not reblog this post. 

Cut for anti-Ragnarok discourse, pro-Ragnarok discourse, the Ragnarok discourse war, mention of Thorki, and general venting. 

I’m not using tags bc I don’t want this post to show up in them. Very sorry and if any of these things is one of your blacklists, please keep scrolling.

Yesterday, I read a fic.

I was wandering through some of the Thorki content on twitter, and followed a link to one of the big bang fics, bc it was a human AU and das my jam.

I didn’t recognize the author’s name. The fic was extremely well-written, though: lots of feels, beautiful narration, a sweet ending balanced with a lot of sadness. It was one of those fics that gave me a lump in my throat.

I was only going to leave kudos, but then I figured I’d take the extra five seconds and leave a comment, bc we all know how much authors like comments. I mean, I’d rather someone leave a comment than kudos, especially if the fic really affected them.I get it and I gotchu, fam. 

Anyway, so I left a comment and proceeded to click on the author’s profile to see what else they’ve written. As you do.

I recognized their AO3 icon, even though I didn’t recognize the name. I’d seen them around on some Ragnarok wank on tumblr. I went to double-check, and it was the same user, and also they’d blocked me.

I do not know this person. I have never spoken to this person. Yet they’ve gone out of their way to block me, most likely bc I associate with the anti-Ragnarok crowd. This happens to me a lot. I’ve even had a couple of former mutuals unfollow and block me (without saying anything to me) and those felt like punches to the gut.

I understand not wanting to see content that you don’t like or that upsets you. Everyone has the right to block whomever they wish. But I can’t deny that getting blocked like that – by someone I don’t know, let alone interact with – fucking hurts. I know it’s not that deep but I can admit it. It’s a shitty feeling and it’s hard not to take it personally.

It’s not really about this particular person at all, although it’s a shame bc they’re a good writer I probably would have followed otherwise. But this entire anti/pro Ragnarok war has gone so far and it’s exhausting. I stayed pretty neutral for as long as I could. 

And here’s the thing. My observations, both from being neutral and also being someone who, despite often being quietly blocked, tends to fly under the radar are this:

The majority of the negativity comes from the pro side.

Look, I side with and agree with the anti side on this one. I can admit, however, that sometimes it gets tiresome to see posts get turned into Ragnarok criticism or tiresome to see more posts on my dash about this that or another thing that sucks about Ragnarok and why. It, like anything, can be tiring.

But I also see that the anti side largely does its best to keep to itself. The pro side complained about the Ragnarok tags, so the anti side made an anti tag, and the pros still come into it to complain. The anti side will post their discussions and criticisms and they largely just circulate within the same group of people. The discussions are almost always criticisms on the source material (ie, the film) and not about anyone who enjoys it.

Now, maybe I don’t see everything. Though I don’t think I’m biased just bc I agree with the anti side – in fact, it was these attributes that made me take a closer look at what they were saying bc maybe they had a point after all. I don’t follow every anti Ragnarok user, but I do follow a lot. I can’t say personal attacks and whatever never happen - but, I hardly ever see them.

That’s not the case with the pro side. I don’t think I follow many from that side, but I see so much negativity from them. It’s like this kind of underhanded negativity that I’m not quite sure how to explain. It’s tonal negativity. 

I mean, sometimes it’s blatant. Name-calling (Loki stans, lackeys, pathetic, delusional, and racist come to mind) is an example. But more than that, there’s this collective tone among the pro side that smacks of condescension and I can’t stand it.

They make fun of the “dissertations” that have been written.

They always include an “lol” or laugh emoji or something to express that they’re not the ones taking this seriously.

They fall back on saying they don’t care about a two-year-old movie.

They’re laughing and making fun and at the same time acting like they’re so above it all.

They want us to just shut up already.

What it comes down to is this: it’s not just a matter of being able to agree to disagree because the pro side actively acts offended that the antis are even having these critical discussions, even if the antis have gone out of their way to not involve the rest of the fandom at all.

(Again, this is not every pro person, but the majority. Tone does matter online, and the overall tone of the pro side is not positive. I say this from a mostly neutral place.)

And here’s a thing about “oh my god, it came out two years ago, get over it!” Yeah, it came out two years ago. So fucking what? You guys are still engaging with it, via fics and headcanons and art. How old the movie is doesn’t matter when you’re having fun with it, but when someone wants to engage with it in a (valid) critical way that you don’t like? No. That’s unacceptable. That’s pathetic. That’s being a lackey. Get over it.

Even writing this, I know that things are much worse for others than they are for me. I get stealth blocked; others are called out by name in public posts, receive anon hate, and are actively targeted.

It’s just, this shit is so fucking toxic to this fandom and it honestly needs to stop. Both sides need to not only stop engaging one another, but also stop acknowledging one another. We get it: you either like the movie or you don’t.

Let people do their own thing. Don’t be fucking obnoxious. If you disagree and genuinely want to talk about it, then try to remember there’s a person on the other side of the screen and be civil. If you disagree and don’t want to talk about it, then just fucking don’t.

If you see a post you disagree with, scroll past. And, yes, block the person if you need to (and sometimes it might be me that needs blocking and I recognize my hurt feelings are my own personal problem, not whoever else’s).

There are a lot of movies in the MCU that are not perfect. (Btw, it baffles me a little to get hated on for my stance on Ragnarok, when I am so much more vocal [and emotionally invested] in hating the Russos and IW/Endgame – but, whatever.) There are a lot of interpretations of characters that are different. There are a lot of people who project their own identity or issues or whatever onto any particular character that resonates (and that’s okay!) and there are a lot of people who don’t project but still identify with a particular character (and that’s okay, too).

Stop judging whether someone is a “real” fan of a character/franchise or not. Just because someone isn’t engaging with the source material in the way you are, and just because they don’t see it in the same way that you do, does not make them wrong. (Yes, this applies to the pro side, too. None of them are wrong or less valid for enjoying and even stanning the movie.) It doesn’t make anyone better than anyone else here. 

Acting otherwise is honestly going to kill this fandom. Because it bleeds over. Fics will have less readers, bc they don’t want to interact with something posted by someone they dislike (or who blocked them). There’s less sharing of things like art and headcanons and content. People unfollow and block each other, people are having to watch what they say, people are losing friends (and potential friends) bc they may be a great person but they don’t agree with you about fucking Ragnarok.

I came to tumblr bc it was the only place where not only could I find other people who loved Loki as much as I did, but it was the only place where I could express that. Express it in fic, in headcanons, in meta. Being creative and starting dialogues and just interacting. I wish we could get that vibe back.

I wish none of this bothered me so much.

[rosesnink]

A Glance on MOTY: Is it close to reality? + my experience as a girl with separated parents

Mother of the Year is about to end during its chapter release I've seen many of your opinions and glances on the case of MC and Guy and even MC's little daughter.

As always,this is just my opinion and reality of the custody battles and parenting,and you're welcome of sharing yours.

TW: Bullying,domestic abuse,mentions of abusive households.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

MOTY has been a crude,real and transparent book since the beggining. A new single mom coming to a new town,now fully recovered of being abandoned by her own ex husband and her daughter's father. She's now on her own with a new school and a kid to take care of.

Since the divorce was a thing here in Madrid (I don't know when it was approved in the USA 😅) this wasn't old news for marriages. Women coming and leaving with their kids or at least the ones who wants to remain to their mother's side. MC's daughter didn't have much option: her mother was the only one who still wanted to take care of her. Guy just... Left.

MC's economy is questionable having a child,not gonna lie. She haves- as we say here- her belt tightened.

Most of the single parents can miraculously manage to give their kid what they need,but most of the time means that,for parents,their life is all work and child care until they're proven to be independant and capable to take care of themselves.

And,this is is an study made on Spanish universities,most mothers are still taking care of their children at the age of,no less than 30!

They have to give up on many luxuries to maintain their kid's happiness.

We didn't truly saw MC's daughter ask her mom why isn't daddy around,or asking about their story to understand how it would've ended. Maybe they had that talk long ago?

Okay,now,settling on a new school with higher standards. While it is unusual to poor kids being accepted unless their IQ is good,they check it's a good kid and blah blah blah,being accepted can be hard and most kids can be awful.

I was literally a stranger when I came to my school and left as a stranger to most of them. But when a new kid comes to an enviroment where everyone grew up in the neighborhood,it's true that even if there's two nice people who adopt you in their group the other 80% will be hostile and cruel just because you're a stranger. The diamond acene with August clarified that.

In a school there's always a pattern of behaviour,etiquette,etc and new kids would need months or even years to adapt,and here in Spain the PTA is thankfully voluntary. We call it the AMPA.

Now,finding a partner suitable for you AND that your kid approves... Oof,that's an odyssey. I still NOT approve my mother's boyfriend but that's more personal.

Here,the MC is lucky that the LIs are amazing. But finding someone who is willing to settle down on a domestic life in today's society is hard. Even if they're parents,they like their bubble.

I cannot give my opinion about the PTA because my mother never attended one– because of her deafness,she hates those Fathers and Mothers reunions because she's the only deaf parent and normally and sadly,everyone will listen with someone who can hear literally everything that's going on.

Now,with the return of Guy to MC's life is... Groundbreaking. While since the first moment I had my father by my side... It was all an illusion my brain created. He was like Guy,he was there but I was only an accesory for him. He's got even his perfectly gaslighted Faye! Younger,sweeter,... Everything my dad couldn't have of my mom

We didn't even saw the grandparents! And most of them here in Spain are actually spending more time with the kids! At least my grandparents had been an important aspect of my raising and I was kinda dissapointed that we didn't get to saw the rest of MC's family and their thoughts about her and Guy,because their opinion could've had a great impact on the story.

As I was saying,now children making besties quick as they do enemies– it's an amusing truth. In my kindergarten I had 5 different best friends and 4 boyfriends that I shared with my twin! That made my father roll his eyes. I'd have dates with them on the snack time and all that stuff. My mom just laughed at this.

And now I'm an useless lesbian haha

It is normally difficult to get along with the parent of your kid's best friend. But Thomas and MC's dynamic is surprisingly great... And unusual irl. Sorry ladies.

The thing is,it's difficult to let in a stranger to your territory. And it's understable. Excusable? Not at all.

And now,Tinsley's rule on the high school? It's awfully true. The teachers and principals will always win on these cases such as bullying,harrasment,etc because they're the ones in charge. During years they denied my case of bullying because I was disabled and the excuse was that I was being delusional. Y'know what they said to those kids? An apology,hug and move on.

Of course, I refused and said that I preferred to be expelled and get rid of these muglets for a short time that pretend that they bullied me with no reason. I was the one who got punished and they ran free. I was only 8.

Same happened when my sister bullied to a girl because she disliked her. Both in high school and in thE Internet no less. The girl reported the high school and ended up being hated. My sister forbid me to support her,but I told her silently that I was on her side. Her reaction to that was also questionable,yes,but the bullies? It was unforgivable for me!

Moving on a crude matter: Guy Ledford's parenting is NOT a myth. It's a reality.

My father and Guy are alike,and playing MOTY seeing his fuckface has been... Hard to swallow. Guys like him (no pun intended) are very real and destructive. Abuse can have many forms and Guy's constant gaslight,whataboutism,misogyny,and much more aspects can destroy a life without laying a hand on the victim and it's difficult to prove at court. My mom,even if she proved my father's behaviour,they judged her more than him and that's a reality that PB kind of forgot to show. They always question more the woman and if you defend yourself and let the others back you up,you'll lose your chances. I can't count the times my mom had to be silent and don't scream what a monster he was because she had to ‘behave’. It's truly disgusting.

And now,when I realised my father didn't care about me at all... It was like 1,000 knives came to my heart and stabbed every inch of me and then twirled it so it wouldn't heal. I was 10 and I was so innocent. I can still hear my grandma yell to my father that one day,because of his behaviour he'll lose at least one of his daughters. And it still feels like a big kick on my gut.

Knowing it can be hard,but admitting it? It can destroy you. Your progenitor,your own flesh,your kin and someone who is supposed to love you above all things... He just doesn't give a damn about you. Or if he does,is for one motive that is not your safety.

When I discovered that my father used me to presume of clever,obedient, silent and straight daughter and beautiful,I was heartbroken. I asked myself ‘am I all that? Just a Barbie doll who must please her dad?’ my mother told me I was already flawless like I was and I started to behave like myself... And he didn't like it. He'd always ignore me and not knowledge my merits by saying ‘they're not worth nor enough. you must do better’ and I'd always tell him I did like my results. We were always arguing and he'd always be like a commander. And I was his rebel link.

Until one day,everything went to hell. I was watching a show at 3AM (questionable,I know,but it was Saturday and it was festive) when he came to me and I said ‘can you give me 5 minutes until it ends? It'll be quick’ instead of waiting,he yanked me off the chair and slammed me against the wall,screaming that he'd beat me up if I didn't obey him. I nodded, scared and went to bed sobbing,my sister heard everything and decided to back him up. She blamed me. I wondered all night if this was the price to pay so I could satisfy him. A man. I decided to call my mom and tell her I didn't want to see him ever again. Back at her house,I told her everything. I cried.

During 4 straight weekends I had to go with him because the law forced me to. Until the 5th weekend,I was free of that burden. Of him.

I was 14 when that happened. I was in junior year and going through a massive bullying case. But at least I had one less thing to lose my mind with. After years of victim blame to my mom,gaslight,ignorance and bad parenting,I was a young,free girl with her future in her hands and a loyal,fierce ally by my side. My mom. The only one who believed me. The one who encouraged me to make ammends with my big brother and have a heart-to-heart. Now he always defends me when people excuse my father.

What I try to say with this story of mine is

That MC's daughter is lucky to have both their parents willing to be in her life and love her,to cooperate even if they wish to be away from the other. MC's daughter can tell off her father. I couldn't because he wouldn't listen to me.

She haves a father willing to have her in his life. Mine never wanted. He never cared. I was nothing to him if I didn't play by his rules. Now I'm a stranger to him. I am nothing to him. I never was. I never had a father.

- - - - - - - -

With this essay finished,I clarify that this is my story. I shared it because I saw it necessary, I don't want anyone's pity. Say anything but ‘I'm sorry’ because i'm honestly tired of this. But your opinion and experience is more than welcome. Again,this is just how I lived it and see it. Don't take it by heart. Anons are off,you need to consult something but don't want anyone else to know what,please DM me. My DMs are open to you. I promise to listen.

Tagging: @mrsbriarmarlcaster @hellospunkiebrewster @ineedshreyamistry @thefirstcourtesan @pippii-punkstockings @tephy24 @vienroose @ladylucina28 @choices-owns-my-ass @drakewalkerwhipped @50shadesofraleigh @parmishon @brightpinkpeppercorn @lilyofchoices

[friendlypsychopathnextdoor]

I will write this once, for future reference.

I agree with the responses that you should not look for community on here or truly anywhere online when it comes to aspd/npd.

Personally, I do not wish for such a community so I do not understand why anyone would, nor do I think this was your intention here. Either way I would not deem it safe to encourage that notion.

This blog is a very limited view of not only my life, but also my personality. I exist outside of this, so relating on it on an emotional level seems a bit absurd to me, even more so than empathy does to begin with. I am neither cruel nor rude, but I have little interest in coddling you.

Aspd as well as npd or conduct disorder are often misdiagnosed, especially in individuals with a violent or traumatic history and especially those who seem apathic due to profound cptsd. Diagnoses of pds especially if wrong can have a strong negative effect on a person’s life, so questioning it when there is reason to do so is advisable.

My first reaction to a psychiatric diagnosis was to fake different disorders to prove to a psychiatrist that they clearly do not know what they are doing. Irrationality, anger, denial and (false as well as actual) apathy are common reactions to such a diagnosis, but seeking people who also have aspd/npd in an attempt of friendship (which is not what I assume anon did here), feeling relief or even joy at the diagnosis point towards it being a misdiagnosis.

Lacking the ability to relate, meaning the lack of empathy is a key trait of aspd and npd.

Obviously, you are still permitted to use the phrase “I relate...” though, same as you can use “Oh my God” without being religious or say “I love you” without emotional attachment if it seems appropriate in the situation.

My apologies for kidnapping your message for the sake of making this statement, but my asks are filled with people wanting to “help me by being my friend” and then different people calling me “edgy”, “delusional” and telling me “I deserve to die” either for faking or for having aspd.

I dislike people who call people criminals, depraved, or make them out as some romaticised villain etc. for having any kind of disorder.

But those who offer pity and go around as if people who have a personality disorder are in need to be saved by someone who offers emotional support and romanticise people with aspd/npd and try to treat them like some misunderstood victims until they are shocked to see them act like people with “aspd” are equally irritating.

People with aspd do not need to be saved by you, nor do they care for your feedback on the way they handle themselves.

Insulting me is vaguely irritating, but a good reminder that it is inadvisable to disclose a pds to anyone in real life. However, I do not appreciate the rudeness of giving bad advise to someone recently diagnosed in my asks.

Post scriptum: It does not matter if you belief me or not, frankly I would advice you to avoid believing anyone about having or on how they deal with having a personality disorder online, (because it gives people a sense of power if they lie about it if they feel weak/are in a bad place). If you don’t belief anything I say and it still helps you deal with your diagnosis then good on you. Surprisingly, I try not to depend in any way on the validation of strangers on tumblr. But I appreciate the sentiment.

Not a question- just wanted to let you know i very much appreciate your blog. Recently diagnosed with aspd & npd so it’s nice to see content i actually relate too.

Thank you :)

If you are easily capable of relating and do not use this simply as a phrase of civility, you might want to question your diagnosis.

However, I appreciate the sentiment.

[bookofmirth]

I think there's a disconnect in this fandom when it comes to shipping and viewing characters on an individual scale. For instance, I can like a certain character and not ship him/her with XYZ. Or....I can dislike a certain character and not ship him/her with XYZ. The whole point of shipping is to ship two people you feel are compatible with each other.

Lately it seems people forget to separate the characters from their ship (it's all or nothing) and I think that's part of what leads to the negative discourse in this fandom because people get protective of their ship when someone else has a different opinions.

It's either, "you're delusional!" or "you only ship A+B together because you hate C."

The first comment quite frankly doesn't warrant a response because people are allowed to ship whoever they genuinely want and shouldn't be called out for it. As for the latter, I don't particularly find an issue with it because people have their reasons to dislike a character so why would they stans a couple they're not fond of? As an example, I'm going to use Azriel and Elain (let me preface this by saying I'm Feysand all the way so I'm not particularly invested in the other couples. I'm really just along for the ride because I need more Feysand 😅). Back to my point, people forget that there are valid reasons to dislike Azriel or Elain separately or together. That does make the people who don't stans these two together toxic but it seems people often equate it to mean the same when they are not.

Toxic is saying Elain or any other character should die just because. Toxic is straight up bullying other stans for having a different opinion (name calling, lack of trying to understand where they're coming from etc). Toxic is telling an OP to go kill himself/herself/themselves.

I think if people will just take off their shipping goggles for a hot minute and actually have an open mind, we can all understand each other a little better.

You don't stans Elain & Lucien together because he makes her uncomfortable? I can see where you're coming from. Let me tell you how I look at it.

You think Azriel has a disturbing mentality and pattern with putting women on a pedestal. Interesting. Let me tell you what I think.

You think Rhys was in the wrong to keep the the risk of Feyre's pregnancy from her. Here's what I think.

We don't necessarily all have to agree with each other but gaining different perspectives and keeping things civil is what makes fandom fun. At least...that's how it used to be.

Anyways, hope I made sense.

Have a lovely day!

I wish more people thought like you, anon. It would be super great if people could just step back and remove the ship that has been surgically attached to their personality, and realize that the ship is made of two characters who are individuals who have separate histories and potentially separate futures (in the sense that not every single second of my life revolves around my partner, no matter how close we are.)

The whole "you're delusional" thing, you're right, it doesn't actually warrant a response. It's an ad hominem attack and is really effective at derailing conversation, but it's... pointless. None of us are delusional at this point, even people I completely disagree with lmao. We all have the way we read the previous books, and the next ones don't exist. It's really a silly comment to make, and I usually try to let it roll off my back.

The "you only ship A + B because you hate C" is also sooooo annoying. First off, so what if I did? I can hate whatever character I want. Second, you don't know that I hate C? I could have very valid reasons for not liking that ship. Like you said, maybe I just don't see them as compatible together but I can still like them as individuals. I like Elain - I don't ship her with Az because I don't think they are compatible at all. (Again, that would require people seeing the characters as individuals in the first place.) (Also if anything, can I just say, if people want to say that I don't them because I hate a character, it would definitely be for my dislike of Azriel. At least get that straight.)

God it must be weird being in this fandom still just for feysand. What a relatively peaceful existence. You must be laughing at the rest of us constantly. 😂

Your examples at the end are perfect, and it's what I personally want to encourage more. But there is an important thing you did:

LISTEN. OMG we need to listen to each other, not just assume "oh you're a gwynriel insert fandom baggage and history here".

Explain our perspective without judging. Just as a counter. A possibility, because none of us can be right 100% of the time and that's okay.

I'm honestly not sure why these things are so hard. Or when they become difficult. It was NOT like this before acosf came out. I miss the old days, even though I felt like I had hardly anyone on my side in shipping elucien.

I hope you have a lovely day as well!