#and imo more appropriate

[airenyah]

hello~ i was rewatching the THK trailer again and noticed something interesting: FadelStyle go from using formal/polite khun/pom pronouns -> informal/rude meung/guu later in the series.

In the trailer, I think I hear Fadel using them in the "I don't like being pursued" line and Style uses them when he says "Whenever I'm with you, you either make me feel so scared, or so damn safe".

I was wondering if you had any Thoughts about that? I was surprised they use rude pronouns when it looks like KantBison keep using khun/pom throughout. Do you think the rude pronouns a sign that FadelStyle are closer or more a feature of their personality/dynamics?

I'm still very confused about how any of the pronoun stuff works, so I apologies if this doesn't make any sense. ^^;;

ah, it's funny you should send me this ask because only last night before i went to sleep did i ramble in a group chat about the pronoun use in ep1 😂

disclaimer: i'm not a thai native speaker and i actually get kinda anxious talking about the thai language publicly out of fear of getting something embarrassing wrong lmao. calling fellow language nerd @visualtaehyun as well as Known Native Speakers™ @recentadultburnout and @happypotato48 for double checks and potential corrections in case i'm blabbering bullshit at any point <3

yeah, in the trailer it seemed to me that fadel and style were consistently using guu/mueng for each other except for when style was trying to flirt with fadel on purpose (as in, when he's flirting for kant and the car, not when he's saying flirty or romantic shit bc he genuinely likes fadel now. or at least that's what i thought was going on upon watching the trailer for the first time kfkdkfdkjkjfd)

so when i watched ep1 i was actually kinda surprised bc i hadn't expected them to consistently start out using phom/khun with each other at first! which probably also comes from the fact that i hadn't expected them to meet on their own before kant hires style to hit on fadel hahaha (like, i didn't think the "my nipples are sensitive" scene would happen before kant sets style onto fadel. i thought at that point he was already very purposefully flirting with fadel for the sake of the mission, but instead it's all style himself just to get on fadel's nerves 😂)

anyway, in ep1 fadel and style use pretty much only phom/khun with each other EXCEPT for style at three very specific points:

he uses "guu" to refer to himself at the very end of the scene of their first meeting when fadel drives off and style shouts something about fadel scolding him like a dad when fadel has left already. i'm like 90% sure i hear him say "guu" in that specific sentence

you probably caught him call fadel "nong" to be an extra little shit when he sat down and made fadel get him those beers

when fadel manoeuvers style out of the restaurant and style is raging he uses phom/khun until the very last sentence where the subs say "i'm gonna take you out!". unfortunately i can't understand the entire sentence that well but he starts the sentence with "guu" and i'm fairly sure i hear the words "เป็นแฟนกู" [bpen faen guu] which translate to "be my boyfriend" and so i'm guessing he's saying something along the lines of "i'll make you my boyfriend" or "you will be my boyfriend" (calling a native speaker to pls transcribe that sentence for me thank youuu 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻)

so we see that style uses the rude pronoun set guu/mueng when he's annoyed (no. 1) and when he's seriously pissed (no. 3). other than that he sticks to formal/polite pronouns throughout the first episode

however, we know that they're gonna be using guu/mueng for each other regularly at some point from the trailer and there's also that scene in the promo for next episode where fadel asks style who sent him: they're both using guu/mueng in the "who sent you?" "i like you" exchange

so now the question is when and why do they switch from polite to rude pronouns? personally i'm speculating that fadel is gonna start using guu/mueng with style once he's seriously fed up and annoyed by style. bc rude pronouns aren't just used to show closeness/intimacy but also when, you know, you're actively trying to be rude. and i could see fadel switch to the rude pronouns for the exact reason of being rude on purpose in order to emphasize his disdain for style and to give him a hint to fuck off. and i could see style going along with the pronoun switch bc he sure ain't intimidated by fadel and won't go away that easily hahaha

and if that really does happen then i could see them just sticking to the rude pronouns from that moment on, since these pronouns can be used in an informal way too and it does fit their dynamic

also, i just went and rewatched the trailer bc i wanted to see if there were any scenes in which fadel and style use phom/khun for each other that we haven't seen yet and yeah, all the scenes from the trailer in which they do use the polite pronouns are scenes that we in fact all got to see in ep1 already. then we have the "good morning krub" scene happening next episode, which i'm guessing is gonna happen before fadel corners style in the locker room. and i'm guessing at that point they (or at least style) will still be using phom/khun since that's what they've established as their pronouns they use to their face (note how in the above list, style is never standing right in front of fadel, yelling directly into fadel's face when he uses "guu", so fadel likely isn't even aware of it). and i'm also guessing that then when fadel is eventually seriously fed up and suspicious of style, he changes to guu/mueng in order to show his anger and to basically declare a war with style. and style switches to guu/mueng too in order to fight back bc he sure as hell won't let fadel intimidate him

idk what language you have as a first/native language, but mine is german and in german we also differentiate between formal and informal pronouns. although for us it's by far (by FAR) not as nuanced as thai pronouns since we differentiate only two pronouns for the 2nd person: formal "you" (Sie - pronounced "see") vs informal "you" (du - pronounced "doo"). and in german it is absolutely considered rude if you use "du" to address a person you should be using "Sie" for. and you can absolutely show your negative emotions (like anger, annoyance, etc) towards your conversational partner who you should be addressing with "Sie" by suddenly switching to "du", esp when you're trying to start a fight. and yeah i can see fadel switching to rude/informal pronounce in this way, to kind of start a fight with style so style will finally fuck off

and in german, usually once you're on a "du" level of addressing each other (esp if you do it regularly and it wasn't just a one-off sentence in an argument or something) then you usually wouldn't go back to using the formal "Sie" for each other. of course in thai everything is muuuuch more complicated and complex than in german when it comes to pronouns, so this is kinda like comparing apples with oranges. but yeah, i can totally see fadel and style sticking to the rude/informal pronouns since they've already crossed that line. since they've already established that they can use this level (register) of language with each other, so why bother going back to a more formal/polite register?

we'll have to wait and see if i'm right with my speculation about the pronoun switch, though. of course it could happen totally differently than what i think (who knows, maybe they'll hop between guu/mueng and khun/phom for a while depending on their moods, like, whether they're being civil to each other bc the given situation calls for it or whether style is actively hitting on fadel or whether they're annoyed/pissed at each other and basically challenging each other to a fight)

and i don't find it surprising that kant and bison would be using different pronouns for each other. they did meet under completely different circumstances and they have a completely different relationship to each other than fadel and style do

one thing thai and german pronouns have in common is that their usage depends heavily on who is talking to whom and also what situation/context the conversation is happening in. german speaking kids are taught that they have to address adults with the formal "Sie" pronoun unless they're given explicit permission by the adult to use the informal "du". german learners who take it up as a second language are taught that they need to use the formal "Sie" when talking to strangers. however, that doesn't reflect the reality at all. there are situation where you can immediately jump to the informal "du" without asking for permission first even when you don't know the person while if you met this very same person for the first time in a different situation you might have to call them "Sie" or else they'd be offended because using "du" would be very rude in this context

now if we look at bison and kant's first meeting... kant is trying to hit on bison. a rude pronoun that you'd use out of negative feelings or with peers/close friends seems a little inappropriate in this situation, don't you think? it would definitely have made the unsolicited advice sound even worse and more invasive, imo 😂

and also throughout the entire episode their goal is to be polite and friendly to the other person, since, you know, they're trying to get on the other person's good side in order to get something out of it. and even when (and after) they get to know each other, well, intimately, they don't really have a reason to be rude to each other or use more vulgar language, i feel like? UNLIKE fadel and style, who are actively trying to piss each other off

i'm not surprised that fadelstyle and kantbison use different sets of pronouns for each other since the couples have very different starting points with very different goals that require very different strategies in order to successfully get there

i hope i managed to explain it in a way that makes sense to you <3

[carlyraejepsans]

for real WHERE does the idea that [utdr humans] are nongendered so that "you can project on them" come from. their literal character arcs are about NOT being a blank slate to be filled in by the audience

i think i understand the assumption on some level for undertale, because there is a very intentional effort to make you identify with the "player character" in order to make your choices feel like your own (the beating heart of undertale's metanarrative lies in giving you an alternative path to violence against its enemies after all, and whether you're still willing to persue it for your own selfish reasons. YOUR agency is crucial).

of course, the cardinal plot twist of the main ending sweeps the rug from under your feet on that in every way, and frisk's individuality becomes, in turn, a tool to further UT's OTHER main theme: completionism as a form of diegetic violence within the story. replaying the game would steal frisk's life and happy ending from them for our own perverse sentimentality, emotionally forcing our hand away from the reset button.

i think their neutrality absolutely aids in that immersion. but also, there's this weird attitude by (mostly) cis fans where it being functional within the story makes it... somehow "editable" and "up to the player" as well? which is gross and shows their ass on how they approach gender neutrality in general lol.

but also like. there's plenty of neutral, non PCharacters in undertale and deltarune. even when undertale was just an earthbound fangame and the player immersion metanarrative was completely absent, toby still described frisk as a "young, androgynous person". sometimes characters are just neutral by design. it's not that hard to understand lol.

anyone who makes this argument for kris deltarune is braindead. nothing else to say about it.

[undefeatablesin]

Not Yharnam posting, but I need to tell everyone that Phantom in the Rain was fantastic and I have had my brain chemistry permanently rewired since watching it.

[finitefantasy]

Idk if this is an unpopular take or not but… I don’t actually love what they did with Harding in Veilguard. The anger at the titan’s fate is great, her reaction to her new powers is good, but overall writing has a more unsure of herself feels like a weird attempt at adding depth? When it doesn’t add depth and just feels incongruous with who her character was.

She was 20 years old and was the main scout for the fucking Inquisition. She would go into unknown situations and scope it out, risking injury and death, and would come back laughing. She could have a romantic relationship with the Inquisitor who is rumored to effectively be a gift from their gods. It’s been ten years of her working undercover for the Inquisition while hunting a LITERAL GOD!

To have her kinda insecure and on the same emotional level as Taash, who is emotionally very much in the “just moved out from home and still having fights with mom about it” stage of life, is just… jarring? I understand why they bond but to have that be her primary + romantic connection in the game is WILD because even when she was 20 herself and fresh from home her job was providing for her family

She doesn’t feel like a woman in her early 30s for a lot of this and she especially doesn’t feel like the Lace of DAI or the comics who was effectively a peer to Varric

Idk she went from a character who I almost dedicated a playthrough to semi-romancing, as barebones as that was in DAI, to a character I like but am ultimately puzzled by

[batsplat]

judas kiss

[quicktimeeventfull]

ok omg loads of people talking about shinto in the notes. shinto doesn’t really operate in the same way as christianity or most other religions so there isn’t actually a 1:1 here re: the christian morality people tend to project onto him and anything connected to shinto. i don’t think light’s moral stance has anything to do with religion at all. (& in fact shinto doesn’t really have a moral imperative so it can’t come from that.)

[boynextdoorcoverpoison]

I get that they’re under hybe but not having bonedo cover got7 and/or astro is a true missight

[officialpenisenvy]

ootd (jimmy page for size)

[justafriendofxanders]

*breathlessly* i think a lot of xander's Stuff stems from a desire for dependability and stability and growing up in a volatile home situation where that wasn't guaranteed which is why he constantly seeks out validation from his peers and like, the CONCEPT of what it means to be Cool or Likable and later a Good Breadwinner/Husband because he doesn't have any other models of what it means to Be Okay (whether it's in role models or a personal philosophy) or the confidence (or frankly, especially in the earlier seasons, the emotional intelligence) to trust that he's enough as he is. and i think part of the fucking tragedy of why he ends up pulling the ultimate flaker move of bailing on his own wedding is BECAUSE he takes commitment seriously and he's all too aware of how people can fail in the promises they make to each other, himself included, and he doesn't trust himself to NOT hurt his loved ones.

but i ALSO do think he rushed into marriage because he felt like it was the right thing to do, rather than because it felt right to him, if that makes sense. i think this is related to the meta about the willow/xander arc, which is to say that when you are insecure and it seems like things are falling apart, and you derive a sense of security from your relationships with the people in your life, it makes sense to double-down on those relationships and try to lock them down, for lack of a better word. because what else are you going to do, trust YOURSELF?

and it's this insane cycle where if you're judging xander as a real person you would or wouldn't want to be friends with (as opposed to a fictional rubiks cube i guess), then it's very easy to pick up on his flaws and the ways in which he can be annoying or hurtful or act (apparently) without consideration for other people's feelings. which is like, fine, whatever, consume media however you want. i'm just personally fascinated by (read: tearing my hair out about) the rubiks cube of how xander most often appears selfish and self-centered when he is most insecure and craving some kind of external reassurance. like sometimes i feel like i'm watching this man run around in a rodent shock maze of his own creation.

[snekdood]

idk why we call gingers "gingers" when ginger isnt even red or orange

[orlesianhennin]

playing as Wyll makes so much sense he is such a perfect protagonist for the game

[countingprimes]

sometimes i see queer people make low hanging anti straight jokes, and they'll often pre-defend themselves by saying straight people don't need defending as if the queer community isn't populated by tons of straight people, straight trans people, straight ace people, straight poly people. queerness doesnt exclude exclusively opposite sex attracted people and it bothers me to see these jokes and their subsequent defenses because normative society certainly rejects these folks because of their queerness and now you are inside the queer community rejecting them for who they desire. i think about straight trans folks the most who are out here under fire from normative society who turn to the queer community for support only to be inundated with sentiments like straight people are actually the real lesser than folks, and it's easy enough to say straightness is valorized in normative society so shitting on straight people is punching up, but i can't help but be keenly aware that the queer straight people tend to be queer in the ways which are often excluded from queer community. so actually yeah i do think straight people need our protection, not heteronormative culture, but individual people? yeah. the "coming out as straight" jokes are all haha good times fuck the straights until you think about the fact that straight trans people when they come out are functionally doing that. after all how many straight trans people used to think they were cis gay people. and we, inside the queer community, turn their experiences into a mean spirited punch line designed to reject them from queer community.

like sorry i just don't think we are gonna find queer liberation by trying to figure out which group we are allowed to make fun of for having the wrong sexuality.

[justablanketreally]

i’m not a big fan of a rickconvenient mort (i think it’s theme is muddled and confused) but morty’s breakdown/rant to beth about how he feels his presence is met with only tolerance or even contempt by everyone in the house is so impactful. beth did make a turnaround after the s3 finale. she stared prioritizing morty’s comfort, safety, and happiness in regards to his adventures with rick. she’s grown and changed and developed and that’s really clear throughout season 4 and beyond. but the damage was already done and morty is easily swept away by someone who gave him more than a modicum of positive attention, more than he ever received at home. and all beth can do is catch him when he inevitably falls, finally giving him that safety net that he didn’t have for so long. even if i don’t think the writers knew exactly what they wanted to do or were actually implying with planetina, i do love that it was placed on beth to confront her actions as arguably the most powerful person in the house. she didn’t do enough before, but she knows that and is trying now.

[paradife-loft]

ah yes. the morally correct torture. the torture that goes right up to the line but doesn't cross it. that torture.

[lynxgirlpaws]

my dumb ass is accidentally gonna become an animator for this stupid fucking youtube channel

[pennamepersona]

wow brandon mull really did get born again before writing RotDS huh