#and i do think biden should

[bisexualalienss]

the thing that annoys me about the whole “biden did horrible” at the debate thing is that….trump literally was incomprehensible and not on topic either but since he screams no one questions his fitness. does no one remember the shark rant earlier this summer. most of the electorate does not watch the debates so all they hear is that biden did bad etc without context

[kensatou]

if nothing else can save america this zero-year-old fairy baby otter with no gender can. chiitan's platform is love. and chaos.

[bedforddanes75]

im not american but some of you guys are just fucking stupid ong what do you MEAN youre not gna vote because you disagree with like one part of what youre voting for. like okay me when im fucking thick

[ahaura]

im sure its been said already but as the election draws near more and more liberals will come out of the woodwork to shame people with a conscience to give away their vote to the democrats for free. i'm already seeing posts saying "why aren't people more concerned about a trump presidency?" you want to know why? it's because people already know he's bad. everyone already knows what he is and what he's done and what he'll do. there's nothing to discuss. he's a racist despotic worm of a man. there's nothing else to say.

biden is currently president. the genocide is happening under his watch. he's the one funding isra*l and arming them; he's sidestepped congress more than once to give them weapons. by oct. 27, the biden administration already knew that "Israel was regularly bombing buildings without solid intelligence that they were legitimate military targets." the state department/biden have engaged in atrocity propaganda, cast doubt on the legitimacy of the death toll recorded by the gaza health ministry, and so on. the united states is currently in the process of trying to pin the "war in gaza" on netanyahu (see sen. schumer's speech) after months of backing blatant genocide as a means to act as if they're "doing something" about the genocide (Instead of, say, threatening to cut off all aid to israel with the condition that all hostilities in gaza, the west bank, and occupied jerusalem are halted immediately and permanently, allowing palestinians freedom to travel, allowing aid into gaza, etc etc etc.)

the long and short of it is that liberals view their own lives as being worth more than palestinians'. that's it. they'll vote for another 4 years of the guy ushering in genocide and supporting apartheid + settler colonialism because he isn't outright attacking them (despite various laws and rulings happening both at the supreme court level and at the local level all over the country that will endanger people). they'll settle for the illusion of safety and security and shame anyone with a conscience and accuse them of "supporting the republicans" when in an actual democracy you would be able to use your vote as leverage to extract concessions from those who want to be elected. that's how it's supposed to fucking work.

democrats are not owed people's vote. if biden loses, it will be biden's fault; it will be his campaign's fault; it will be the democrats' fault. trump is bad; the republicans are bad. we already know this. this is not an endorsement of either. but if democrats are too cowardly and feckless and servile to the motivations of the american empire and never do anything for their constituents then why the fuck should anyone vote for them. you want to get mad at someone, why don't you do something useful and stop worrying about team-sports with a purely selfish basis and start hounding the people in power who are supposed to serve you, the voter.

[true-bluesargent]

i know the state of the democracies in the uk and in the us right now are terrible, but i can't even fathom being able to vote and NOT doing it. people fought and died for these rights! there are people all over the world right now who can't vote at all or who don't live in a free democracy! and people who have the right and the ability to vote who live in two of the most privileged countries in the world are going to let the opportunity pass? what is wrong with you all? i can't even believe it

[flying-cat]

I can't imagine being anywhere near as insane as Trump supporters because my dad told me that he, earlier, drove past a guy putting a "Harris Walz 2024" sign outside his house and decided to yell out at him "TRUMP 2024 YOU COCKSUCKER" and flip him off. And he laughed when he told me because he thinks that yelling at a man (emphasized man because he thinks men should be "better" than women, and "better" would be voting for Trump in this case) who is voting for a "whore who slept her way to the top" (his exact words) is funny. And expected me to laugh with him. And got angry when I didn't and just stared at him in disbelief. Even though he already knows that I don't like Donald Trump. These people fully expect others to find their weird ass derogatory words and behavior FUNNY. Donald Trump is leading a cult of old people who he brainwashed into being delusional with him.

[spitblaze]

I'm not a psychologist or a politician or anything approaching an expert about literally anything except a few specific video games but I feel like so many people wouldn't be agonizing over the moral implications of one (1) vote if we as the less-than-uppest-of-upper-crust had the ability to meaningfully affect change in ways other than 'spend money/do not spend money, vote for the red or blue tie'

[macbethz]

People really love to pretend doctor who as a television show exists in a vacuum and not a culture that has shifted over the last 60 years. The standards for television are very different now than they were even 10 years ago & I think it’s important to consider in ANY analysis of doctor who what the surrounding tv landscape was like

[chiarrara]

I don't know I just feel like....

We just watched a man self-immolate in his military uniform. And I don't want to sound like an idiot, because it's much more than this but, couldn't you say that was a very extreme form of conscientious objection?

He could not be complicit anymore, but there is literally no way out of being complicit in this genocide if you live in America. For him especially, being trapped in military service. But for all of us. All of us are trapped in complicity in some way, and we can try to counteract that sin with as much meaningful direct action as we can possibly do, but all of that action comes with some proportional level of risk.

So, a man burned himself alive in an extreme form of conscientious objection (the only form available to him - one of great violence)

And people are still on here telling people to suck it up and vote for Biden.

I just... maybe I'm really stupid and I just can't see the logic y'all are putting forward. Because the way you lay it out it all seems to make so much sense to you. I understand we're trapped in a two party system. I understand the Republicans don't have the same consciences we do and are gonna vote en masse for Trump. I understand Trump is a danger globally and domestically. I understand all that, and I don't want his second term to come to pass. I'm not ignorant of how dangerous he is.

But a man self-immolated to object to the system of complicity he's trapped in, and the most logical response y'all have to a bunch of people wanting to opt out of complicity in this election, and the next four years of horrors that will be done in their name is to tell them, you just have to suck it up and be complicit. Your only tool is to make a phone call. You can try to protest, but there's a non-zero chance you'll be beaten and arrested and have your life ruined, by the way. You can donate to try and put a bandaid on the horrors you're seeing through your phone screen everyday (and you should, but God it's sure not stopping anything). But you're not allowed to object to being complicit in the selection of the Genocider-In-Chief.

It's not going to stop the genocide. We know this. It's not going to stop the election. We know this. It's not going to change anything directly, and Trump is going to get elected (which he will either way. most people who would vote against him are doing it anyway, y'all are fighting a very very small online minority).

But a man self-immolated in his military uniform. He didn't think that act was going to directly stop aid from going to Israel, or stop the genocide, or destroy the US military industrial complex. He didn't think his one small (but extremely brave and impactful) act was going to solve everything. Everything that was going to happen is still going to happen just with one less man in uniform.

But it wasn't nothing. It didn't do nothing. It's not his fault that the military will keep on chugging. It's not his fault that things are getting worse in Gaza every day. But he's not complicit anymore and he sent a message. And he had to die to achieve that.

And y'all are telling us we can't even do the very small act of not being complicit in the presidency. It's a less effective act of protest, but I also don't have to die for it.

It's not a boycott (I've seen this strawman, i don't know why you think we think that). It's not going to "send a message to the government" (obviously, we're not ignorant). It's to the Party that runs these candidates, and makes money off of "pick us because we're not the other guy" then commits crimes against humanity. I don't want to roll over and be fucking complicit in that.

Parties and candidates look at those numbers. they see how many people voted for them last time and how many people this time.

They don't care about our voices, and our protests, and our emails. They care about donations, and they care about votes. That's it. That's all they look at. If the emails and the phone calls and the protests don't result in a drop in one of those two things, they don't fucking care.

I don't know. This is a long ass ramble, but I'm trying to work out my feelings about this. Because we can't opt out of paying taxes, we can't really opt out of the benefits of living and being born in the Global North, we can't opt out of work, we can't opt out of the military, we can't opt out of following the law without extreme violence being brought against us. We can't do a whole fucking lot besides call, email, donate, and protest in a way that doesn't get us beaten and arrested, and if you do get beaten and arrested, you'll be dealing with the legal consequences for years or potentially the rest of your life.

And a man burned himself to death to object but I can't withhold my vote???

[mangopit]

like i think white american liberals can feel so exhausted at the amount of empathy and sympathy they have for the most marginalized groups that they end up the most vocal about how bad the presidential candidates are, how tired they are of voting, how the only solution is a revolution right now, etc etc. and like poc are exhausted too. i don't Want to vote for either of these guys. i would love a major upturn of the u.s. political system. but with me, there is literally no other option except trying as hard as i can to prevent trump's second term, and that most likely means voting for biden + encouraging others to do the same. it's disheartening at best, infuriating at worst to read people loudly casting doubts in upcoming elections and distancing themselves from the one process that could preserve or destroy entire swaths of people. yes, more people than now. like i'm sorry but it's too fucking early to complain. it's too fucking early to even want to give up. if you want to give up now then i frankly believe you're not recognizing what there is still left to lose. poc have everything to lose. my friends and family in countries battered by colonization and imperialism, they have so much to lose. if you think a second term under trump only means losing some rights in exchange for sticking it to biden, you need to realize that for far too many people, we're gambling the entire quality of life. we're gambling physical safety amidst the types of people who are emboldened by trump's rhetoric. we're gambling certain communities' chances of survival. life or death, i truly believe it.

right now you have a choice, and that choice means the world. stop echoing the idea that right now is the worst it gets when it can get so much worse for people outside of your position, if you don't do your barest fucking minimum.

[crypticarchivist]

To anyone who follows me and is thinking of not voting in protest of the genocide in Gaza.

I understand. I do. It’s fucking monstrous. But as fucked up as it is to say it, all those problems you were hearing about before Gaza are still around.

The anti-trans legislation, the book banning, the attacks on abortion rights and other forms of uterine healthcare, the repeated attacks on democracy, the orange guy with a slavishly loyal christo-fascist voter base who literally keeps saying he’s going to turn dictator *day one* and lock up his political opponents and lgbtq+ people in camps if he ever gets re-elected. The same orange guy who has tried to overthrow legal elections in the past. The same orange guy who is absolutely going to turn the genocide from bad to worse and has explicitly said he will.

All that shit.

Still exists.

The far right didn’t take a vacation or time out while people were justifiably worried about Israel’s genocide in Gaza. They’re not taking a time out while people are *still* justifiably worried about Gaza.

You can *still* worry about the people of Gaza. You don’t need my permission but I’m still saying you can just to clarify that I’m not telling you to ignore the deaths.

But please. PLEASE.

Do not get tunnel vision.

Not voting. Does not. Hurt Joe Biden.

Not voting. Does not. Help Palestine.

Not voting. Is exactly. What the leader of Israel, Trump, and literally every fascist in this country wants leftists doing.

Some people will need to ask themselves if maintaining a personal sense of moral purity is more important than preventing the country with the biggest military budget on the planet from making a full backslide into theocratic fascism.

[apocalypseofvanities]

me when i’m in an answering the question i was asked competition and my opponent is running for president in 2024

[mugiwara-lucy]

Let me explain it for your tiny brain so maybe even someone like you can understand; if you vote Biden you are ACTIVELY FUNDING GENOCIDE and their blood is ON YOUR HANDS. You just don't want to lose your precious white privilege and you disgust me.

And as far as I'm concerned; a non vote is basically another vote for Trump.

I'd like to point out IF Trump gets back in office; this will NOT BE just an american issue but an international one.

Familiar with NATO?

Yeah under Trump he plans on pulling out from them which could lead to global scale conflict:

So if the blood of Palestinian's is on the people voting blue; the wake of the destruction is on the hands of non voting and the Maga crowd then as far as I'm concerned using that same logic.

[threadbareturnbacks]

I know we are slinging mud like it's a nude mud wrestling match right now but I've got three very very stupid quotes that clarified everything for me:

1. "Her policies are fine but I just don't think I could stand 4 years of hearing that voice." - a father of a young man in a swing state as seen in a reddit thread. (Misogyny)

2. "I'm really struggling with my rent right now and I know Harris wants to help me buy a house, but I need help now and Trump gave us actual money. I could use that kind of president right now." - a woman in a swing state as reported on by CNN (economic)

3. "Did Joe Biden drop out?" Top trending search term on Nov 4th - reported by many news outlets (ignorance)

It's cathartic to sling mud at each other but the really basic fact is that 90% of the electorate thinks like the above. They are not keyed in Tumblr posters with an intimate knowledge of AOB dynamics and leftist terminology. They are checked out, feeling a little crunched, and don't like women all that much. That's it. A lot of T's insane ravings never even broke through, why would they? If millions didn't know who was even running on the D ticket, how would they know about the crazy shit said at rallies that occupied a few hours of the news cycle?

The ultimate conclusion: there was no Dem candidate that could have run in this environment. We did really, really, really well considering the on-the-ground realities. The real issue as I see it is how the polls/media could be so wrong and predict a 50/50 race instead of the actual, on the ground 70/30 race that it was. It wasn't that hope was misplaced, but that the hope and work was made to seem more effective than it was. Hope is important, but so is pragmatism.

Give yourself a break. Stop blaming everyone. Work on making your life and the people in your circle safe and whole. Get offline for real and if you absolutely need to be involved, do it locally.

[starswallowingsea]

Making trump into the ultimate boogey man was intentional so that the democrats dont have to do any work to actually listen to constituents and feel like they have free reign to do whatever they want because the alternative is the big evil fascist even though we're seeing a lot of fascist tendencies under Biden and going back to 2008-2016, Obama. We, as a country, should not have this much political sway in the world.

[rawliverandgoronspice]

not dipping back there again after this, but my opinion on where the discourse re: us politics is heading is not getting any nicer.