#and how and why no other fandoms can compare

[lilietsblog]

the fandom infantilization of Siffrin upsets me. like yall thats a whole ass adult!!!! he lived on his own for like 10 years!!!! without a home or a community to call their own they survived and did well enough that their first meeting with the party was SAVING THEM from a Sadness!!! the entire party's impression of him was on a scale between "extremely suspicious stranger" and "cool and mysterious"!!!! their reaction in the first loop to odile bringing up the super potion incident was to bat their eyes cutely!!!! they start the touch therapy thing in the garden room on their own initiative becasue they're aware of their own mental health needs!!!! Siffrin is a chaotic gremlin ADULT who manages his own shit perfectly fine until he's put in a situation tailored to target his personal weaknesses with laser precision!!!!

like... yall. Siffrin looks after people around him. Siffrin has strong opinions on taking care of children. Siffrin is second oldest in the party after Odile and shares a unique understanding with her.

Siffrin. Is. An adult. An asexual, nonbinary, short adult who's managed to remain functional and autonomous despite serious neurological problems without any support network. The rest of the party thinks he's cool because he is. They have strong moralðical principles that they act on, rather than just personal duckling imprinting loyalty ("I love you personally because you're mine" comes up nowhere in his speech to Bonnie about why he would protect them at the cost of mutilation again - it's purely about Bonnie being a kid and adults having an obligation to protect them)

Like... there's this perfect storm of Siffrin being - explicitly asexual, implied on the aromantic spectrum, - mentally ill with brain damage (the memory shit) and also physically disabled (the eye), - nonbinary, - short and thin, - quiet with cutesy mannerisms, - specifically needing care and affirmations at the end of the story, that combines to people lumping them into the "cute baby to be taken care of" category, consciously or subconsciously to various degrees

but like

no it's actually pretty important that Siffrin is an adult who needs those things

mid to late twenties is an adult

mid to late twenties having lived on his own since mid to late teens is VERY MUCH an adult!!!!

give me Siffrin who drinks. give me Siffrin who gambles. give me Siffrin who used to engage in a variety of high risk hobbies/games/activities that they've scaled back on since joining because they identified Mirabelle and Isabeau as impressionable youngsters to be kept safe from bad ideas. give me Siffrin who is competent at a wide variety of random odd jobs because that's how they used to make a living. give me Siffrin who has a wide pool of mostly but not exclusively shallow medical knowledge and an unsettlingly deep expertise in first aid because he's had to take care of himself for a decade (and who picks up Healing Craft quickly&effectively compared to the years people usually need to study it due to this 'field experience'). give me Siffrin with multiple failed relationships in their past, some of which ended amicably due to the natural process of self-discovery and drifting apart, some of which ended because the other person was an asshole, and some of which ended because Siffrin himself was an inconsiderate jerk. give me Siffrin who used to be a much more unpleasant person, including on purpose, when they were younger. give me Siffrin who can in fact be trusted with sharp objects post-canon but avoids some of them of their own volition now because they're aware of self-harm urges being a bad thing to be avoided and are capable of managing that for themselves when outside of an active ongoing mental breakdown!!!

give me Siffrin who is better at flirting than Isa is!!! give me Siffrin who can talk Mirabelle through her hangups and anxiety attacks!!! give me Siffrin who engages with Odile as a peer when the rest of the party sees her a an elder!!!! give me Siffrin who is good with children from the position of an adult who has the patience and empathy to indulge them!!! ALL OF THESE IN THIS PARAGRAPH ARE LITERALLY CANON FACTS ABOUT SIFFRIN!!!!!

sickfic about Siffrin is great!!! give me sickfic where at one point everyone else falls apart from fear and pressure and Siffrin, all while still having a fever and stumbling while walking, steps up and picks up the slack!!!

give me a fic where Siffrin helps Odile deal with the unsettling experience of her new research topic having antimemetic properties by sharing his own tricks for dealing with memory loss!!!

give me a fic where Siffrin keeps having to scale back their flirting with Isabeau because they keep stumbling on Isa being unable to articulate or even realize his boundaries and have to make a project of walking Isa through basics of healthy relationships!!!!

give me a fic where Siffrin teaches Mirabelle about the wider world outside Dormont and outside her sheltered bubble as a Housemaiden!!!

give me a fic where Bonnie increasingly relies on Siffrin as an adult to come to with problems, and Siffrin keeps having to develop new skills and areas of knowledge to effectively help!!!!

give me a fic where the party has no idea how to help Siffrin with a problem because Odile has never had a problem quite like this in her life and the rest of them just feel completely lost in the face of experience they have never had!!!!

GIVE. ME. SIFFRIN. THE. ADULT.

(also, on a tangentially related personal preference aesthetic note, give me Siffrin with scars. give me Siffrin who overdid Healing Craft in the last loop so bad Mirabelle couldn't heal them cleanly and who is happy to have reminders that these events really happened and are over now and he's still in the same timeline. give me Siffrin with top surgery scars deliberately kept as an aesthetic affectation. give me Siffrin whose face did not heal cleanly from the loss of an eye. give me Siffrin whose body reflects their history and experiences)

[mrkeatingsblazer]

defending the characters does equal loving the fandom are you okay? Bens in the wilderness with a bunch of teenagers who don’t listen to him. We see that play out the second Lara Lee asks him what he’s gonna do about it when she goes on the plane. ITS A PLOT POINT. It’s literally why Jackie dies; she signifies change in leadership and unlawfulness. Coach Ben being an adult does not matter to the girls anymore, it’s why mitsy was so okay with drugging him because in her mind he’s still holding onto civilised laws and that’s not an excuse for rape even if she thinks he wants her. That’s an excuse I see so much and it’s disgusting. And on mitsy and Ben; that girl took off his leg without barely thinking and has shown multiple other signs of mental illness that from someone in the show could look like her potentially snapping and becoming dangerous.

It’s a tactic many victims use; easing their oppressor into a state of comfort because he doesn’t know how this crazy girl is gonna react. You saying that he shouldn’t be around kids is so strange. Like what do you think he’s a pdfile?

Saying that what happened at doomcoming “wasn’t the best” is why I hate you fans, doing exactly what I said by pushing everything about the boys away or seeing it as less important. It being a women show shouldn’t mean the fandom should become a bunch of femcels who hate the guys. Shauna jerks off to a picture of her daughter and her boyfriend? Completely fine who cares Shauna is complex. Travis, a teenage boy in the 90s, saying something sexist in the first season- fuck him, im thankful he dies, doesn’t deserve anything. The same can be said with Ben who the fandom villainies’ because of his age. AGE DOESNT MATTER IN THE WILDERNESS. He has no power. The fact you think that what he’s done is so bad compared to the rest of the girls is mad. He has to die? But not the group eating people? (love those little freaks but point still stands).

Also telling me not to talk about my opinions on the show is so weird. Public platform, public opinions. You also attack a character you are gonna get fans of that character on your back. If you don’t want “debates” don’t post hate posts.

“omg poor coach ben someone save him from misty” i hope he meets his demise at her hands actually

[warrioreowynofrohan]

Character Analysis – Edmund Bertram

I have a better opinion of Edmund Bertram than much of the Jane Austen fandom has, and I am going to try to explain why. It comes down to several things:

1) He probably makes more sacrifices for people other than a woman he is in love with than any other Jane Austen hero.

He has to sacrifice a great deal of the economic condition he would normally expect in order to enable Tom’s debts to be paid, and Tom doesn’t even care about this or feel guilty for it. At no point does Edmund show hostility to or resentment of his brother over this, nor does he ever bring it up to Tom to guilt him, not even when Tom is doing something Edmund considers immoral and disrespectful to their father; Edmund makes his arguments against the play on the merits, as best he can. Nor does he bring it up to Tom when the (relative to expectations) small income he can expect is one of the principal barriers to him marrying the woman he loves.

He goes out of his way to be kind to Fanny from the start (seriously, how few 16-year-old boys would take the time to listen and be kind to and help a ten-year-old girl? Most 16-year-old boys are dreadful, from my experience of high school.)

He sells one of his horses to buy one that Fanny can ride, when riding is recommended for her health. This is no small thing, given how frequently-used horses were in that time. This isn’t like, say, selling one of your three cars; it’s more like choosing to give up either your computer, tablet, or cell phone, and never (or, well, for many years) have a replacement again. Lending the horse to Mary Crawford for a couple days is a fault, but to me a fairly minor fault in light of this.

He is determined that he will live in his parsonage rather than – as would be done by many members of the clergy in that day – live at Mansfield Park and ride over once a week to preach. It is important to him that he do his job well and live among the people he is ministering to, and he is not tempted to try to modify his parsonage into a much fancier house when Henry Crawford tries to talk him into it. Nor is he willing to pursue a career that Mary Crawford would be more favourable to. He genuinely cares about his vocation as a pastor, and is willing to make sacrifices both of love and of comfort in order to do so. I don’t generally have a high opinion of the 19th-century Anglican clergy, Edmund is genuinely dedicated.

He tends to Tom gently and fairly continuously when Tom is sick, despite Edmund having plenty of worries of his own. The book says, “when able to talk, or be talked to, Edmund was the companion he preferred.” Edmund put off a proposal to the woman he loves in order to tend to Tom – and that tending is a duty that would, I think, usually have been considered as one for the women of the family. It really highlights how Edmund is the only Bertram with real feeling and care for his family members.

In light of this, I think that some of the things readers heavily criticize him for, like losing track of time one afternoon when he’s on an outing with his girlfriend, are comparatively minor and forgiveable. Edmund seems to me to put more concerted effort into doing the right thing than most other men in Jane Austen.

2) His ability to act is constrained relative to most other Austen heroes by the fact that he is a younger son, living at home, with two parents and an aunt still living. He does not have the authority to spend Sir Thomas’ money, and filial duty means he cannot outright denigrate Mrs. Norris to Fanny. The only other Jane Austen heroes who do not have their independence are Edward Ferrars and Henry Tilney (and both of them have rather different relationships with their family).

This means anything he does for Fanny, he has to do at his own expense – as when he sells one of his horses to buy one for her; as when he offers to stay with his mother while the others go to Sotherton so that Fanny can go. It’s the most effective way he has of addressing the way they treat her: oh, so you think it’s okay if this happens to Fanny? Well then, it’s happening to me instead. In the case of the Sotherton expedition, it quickly flips people to seeing that as unacceptable, making them bother to find another (fairly simple) solution that they hasn’t cared about finding before.

In a few ways, Edmund is placed in a more feminine role in the story than any other male leads: his principal good qualities are a strong moral sense and the provision of emotional support and care; he’s the bedrock of his family in the same way that Elinor Dashwood is for hers; he’s held back from the person he loves by economic precarity; and he seems to have a limited social circle outside his family (the drinking-and-gambling habits common in young male society among students of his class and time likely didn’t suit him).

In short, Henry Crawford does not care for and value Fanny Price more (or nearly as much) as Edmund does; his financial and familial position simply make it easy for him to do things, at insignificant cost to himself, that Edmund cannot do without behaving in a way that would, in his time, be deeply disrespectful to his parents and aunt. Edmund knows Fanny far better, understands her far better, and when he gives her gifts (like the necklace) it’s ones she likes and appreciates.

3) I don’t blame Edmund for being in love with Mary Crawford for much of the book because, frankly, she’s an appealing person, especially given Edmund’s narrow social circle. The combination of wit, liveliness, comsistent good humour, interesting conversation, and beauty (plus harp-playing) that she beings are not something the Bertrams encounter every day. He wants to think better of her than she is because her other characteristics are so appealing. I think that’s a very human reaction when in love. (Elizabeth Bennet falls for Wickham and makes excuses for him based on little more than good manners, good looks, flattery, and a mutual dislike of Darcy, and people don’t criticize her nearly as much.)

By the same token, I don’t blame him for being oblivious to Fanny’s love for him because absolutely everyone is and Fanny is very deliberately and determinedly concealing it. And given that, liking to spend somewhat more time with your girlfriend than your bestie is also, I think, quite forgivable in a young person.

4) On one area of frequent critique, that Edmund doesn’t listen to Fanny on several notable occasions (mainly about the Crawfords), I think their dynamic over several years is an important consideration. It’s somewhat a flipped version of Emma in that you’ve got a mentor-mentee relationship between the leads, but in this case it’s the mentor who is mistaken and the mentee who is right. Edmund has been supporting and advising and encouraging Fanny for many years, and many of those times he was right. For example, she was afraid of learning to ride when she first started with a pony, and Edmund encouraged her and comvinced her to do it, and she came to love it.

“Ah! cousin, when I remember how much I used to dread riding, what terrors it gave me to hear it talked of as likely to do me good; – (Oh! how I have trembled at my uncle’s opening his lips if horses were talked of) and then think of the kind pains you took to reason and persuade me out of my fears, and comvince me that I should like it after a littl while, and feel how right you proved to be, I am inclined to hope you may always prophesy as well.”

Fanny also, in another conversation, describes herself to Edmund as “foolish and awkward” and he insists “you have not a shadow of either, but in using the words so improperly.” The narrative is clear about how consistent and important his care, sympathy, praise, and advoacy have been for her, for many years:

Edmund’s friendship never failed her: his leaving Eton for Oxford made no change in is kind dispositions, and only afforded more frequent opportunities of providing them. Without any display of doing more than the rest, or any fear of doing too much, he was always true to herinterests,and considerate of her feelings, trying to make her good qualities understood, and to conquer the diffidence which prevented their being more apparent; giving her advice, consolation, and encouragement.

Kept back as she was by every body else, his single support could not bring her forward, but his attentions were otherwise of the highest importance in assisting the improvement of her mind, and extending its pleasures. He knew her to have a quick apprehension as well as good sense, and a fondness for reading, which, properly directed, must be an education in itself…he recommended the books which charmed her leisure hours, he encouraged her taste, and corrected her judgement; he made reading useful by talking to her of what she read, and heightened its attraction by judicious praise.

The nature of this relationship also helps explain some of Edmund’s reaction to Henry Crawford’s proposal: while Edmund is very much at fault for disregarding her doubts about Henry Crawford’s morality, he is very used to Fanny being nervous and anxious about things that, once she is used to the and no longer afraid of them or uncertain of her abilities, she enjoys. (Such as riding.) So he is seeing her reaction in part through that frame.

The basic difficulty in Mansfield Park that affects perceptions of Edmund is that it is occurring at a moment of transition: the first time Fanny has been eclipsed in Edmund’s life, combined with a transition from him being a mentor and guide to them becoming equals, and her in fact surpassing him in perception and being willing to go against even his opinion in her choice to reject Henry Crawford. It’s the story of Fanny growing up, whereas Edmund (the mentor) is put in the place of Emma (the mentee) in Emma, in being mistaken in key assessments of people, and biased into seeing what he wants to see. This reversal is what allows them to be on equal footing, and for Edmund’s benefit from Fanny’s companionship to be as apparent or more apparent, to everyone, as his from her.

However, this means that for most of the novel we’re seeing Edmund and Famny’s relationship at the weakest point it’s ever been, which can’t help but affect readers’ attitudes to him; and I do think it’s a flaw that we don’t get an actual conversation at the end between Edmund and Fanny that deals with his recognition of his errors in judgement and the value of her perception and principle.

[toa-archive]

Nari Design Path

We're now on the final of the trio and we're finishing up with Nari! Part of the reason she's last is there is So Much and given smacked straight into the image limit it was the right call. Think she is also a great reminder that there is no "central hub" for finding information scattered across multiple artists with some being lost over time. The only place that is anything like that is the Dreamworks vault, all this is by one dedicated person who despite doing their best can still miss things.

As ever with these it is far from impossible something else will belatedly turn up. Should this occur, wherever it is added will have a [/edit xx/xx/xxxx] which includes a date marker. Just makes it easier to find the “new” thing :)

Much like with Skrael opening with these guys again if for flow reasons this time round. Francisco Ruiz Velasco had his own stab at a bunch of wizards which are nigh impossible to pin down if it was for any of the Arcane Trio specifically or not. This one will very understandably appear in all three as there could well be a Nari potential here for all we know.

Source goes to Linkedin so may require an account.

Next up is Yingjue Chen's initial forest wizard concepts which you may recognise from the Bellroc thread. We've even got some deer ankles going!

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Her next iteration is Nari as we know her for the most part if more "adult" in appearance, longer hair, possible deer ankles and lots of veils.

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The "adult" Nari has popped up one other time namely through Francisco Ruiz Velasco doing his own exploration of the nature wizard and funky magic vines.

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After this it was decided to make Nari "younger" and more childlike in stature though at this point still keeping everything else about her design. Fandom has generally fallen into two camps as either seeing her as a literal child sharing a weird spot with Skrael there or as a small adult. This is in part why the quotation marks are being used. Next to her here is the nature wizard design recast as Bellroc before they went off to a different artist. This is Yingjue Chen again!

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For some reason have the left image entirely on its own and not entirely sure why. Anyway.

On the right is more veil tests that were tried out until it was decided it would be cost prohibitive, a common reason for cape loss in animation. Her hair was shrunk into the snazzy braid for the same reason. Her design would have further tweaks before settling, notably in the legs and how the leaf plates fit together if you compare the above and the below.

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After this we have Nari's paint over a Leo Sanchez Studios model complete with callouts! Thinks ended up being tweaked a little bit more which really shows how iterative the process of concept to final design can be. Bonus is good reference particularly for that braid.

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This is the point where you will see some creative work arounds for the image limit. Prior to his website being changed, Ivan Gozali had a bunch of sketches, some Bellroc sketches and a Jilaire beatboard. The Nari ones are still accessible through instagram if small. These are a smidge bigger though have been grouped into twos because of aforementioned limit.

He does mention a very interesting tidbit however:

Some character studies of Nari. Early in production we didn’t have much to go on. There were several design iterations, we even had several name changes. I was never much of a “concept” artist so please excuse with these off-proportion drawings. I always find joy exploring character behaviours and attitude.

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In addition there was this little animation which is on both instagram and on his tumblr. There he says:

Nari character from Wizards, inspired by a ‘feral boy’ character from Road Warrior, which was a good jumping point, but I’m mostly inspired by @glenkeaneprd Tarzan test.

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Also by one of the storyboarders we have this series of art by Bianca Siercke. Completely non-canon these were part of figuring out her character and no doubt helped the boarders figure her out best for drawing as well.

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This can of course also mean rock fists. Specifically in this case to quote:

"Nari playful personality was especially fun because of how it might effect her fighting style". "This was one of the explorations I did to figure out what kind of magic she might use".

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"This was an exploration of how Nari's magic might change depending on her mood".

Given she can use plants like a telephone according to Aaron, murder hands seem fair even if they were just part of figuring her out.

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"These were explorations trying to find Nari's personality and magic ideas. They're non canon".

This is the last one! Ironically enough the seeds did come back in a sense in the form of her potted plant in Rise of the Titans.

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Decided to add a trio of bonuses just for fun. You might have noticed the Order pops up in the Wizards credits sequence though unlike Trollhunters and 3Below, it is not Headless Studios. They were drawn in a similar way though! They are by Alison Donato.

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Now firmly onto RotT related artwork, these various disguises for Nari are by Betsy Bauer painted over Yingjue Chen's original! Should you so desire you can have chav Nari in your works and point to this as to why.

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Thanks to Andy Murray we have a paint and orthographic turnaround of the chosen Nari in a giant beanie. Gives a good look at the t-posing model as well should you need it.

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This is also a great excuse to yet again break out Francisco Ruiz Velasco's Order band poster again! Some imagery shenaniganry was done purely to ensure this got in here again.

Source goes to Linkedin so may require an account.

Returning to Yingjue Chen a moment, Nari's staff! This and Alison Donato's credits paintings are the only currently known artwork of it. It might not have been used much but she does very much have a stick just like the others.

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In the previous two design paths this is about when the Art of Wizards panel gets pointed to with the really tiny screenshot. In a unique twist to Nari and as a boon when smacked into the image limit, we have the full-sized versions of the very art shown there!

Next to the very tiny Nari is the left most vine.

And beside it is both the "flame" and the beam that will be used to bass boost the Heart of Avalon specifically. The below was originally on Betsy Bauer's website though is no longer available. Why things are saved off :)

Do you recall the green butterflies/moths Nari seemingly produced out of nowhere while at Hex Tech? Well thanks to Isaac Orloff we have their orthographic and their glowy effects!

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Moving onto the RotT spell front, when Betsy Bauer revamped her website it came with some brand new art we hadn't seen previously. Not only does it show her potted plant unfurling and name it as a passion flower, there's an additional view of Nari in her "Fish fear me" hat.

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We have that same flower exploding into a massive vine. Even has a callout specifically to Betsy Bauer's spell effects which is neat! This one is by Sean Wang.

Returning to Andy Murray a moment, we have the glow up eye effect for Nari. While not shown here for image limit reasons, the mind swap between Douxie and Nari effects plus the ripping him outta there is on the same sheet. The one below, which is purely Titan related has been cropped for fitting this post reasons only.

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This is the Arcane Circle for Nari which is shown on the Earth Titan. The Genesis Seal marker is on the same row as Bellroc so is not shown here. As above it has been cropped for fitting this post reasons only. This time they are once again by Sean Wang.

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Sean Wang also has this on her website showing additional effects and the rune usage on Nari specifically. The artwork on the left is from one of Alfonso Blaas' colour keys which shows the Genesis Seals being opened.

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Nearly there now! While mentioned earlier and to fit with the format of the other two posts, one of Nari's in development names was Ilnara which we found out thanks to Bianca Siercke.

To close up on a fun note, Yingjue Chen has a headcanon of "adult" Nari having Excalibur which Schildwand went and cosplayed!

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With the trio now complete, all the link hops between now work! When this is uploaded please allow chance for the links to Nari to be updated on the other posts.

Bellroc - Nari - Skrael

[apollosgiftofprophecy]

crawling into your asks to whine about percy being a mary sue

I maaaaay have to disagree with you here 😅(but also not? hear me out.)

Percy is absolutely one of those characters that you look at and go "isn't he a mary sue?" (especially when you're a fan of an equally-powerful girl who gets called a mary sue by the wider fandom. meg haters i am looking in your direction.)

According to Wikipedia, a Mary Sue is "a type of fictional character, usually a young woman, who is portrayed as free of weaknesses or character flaws." TV Tropes expands on this by saying it "differs wildly from circle to circle, and often from person to person.

"These traits usually reference the character's perceived importance in the story, their physical design and an irrelevantly over-skilled or over-idealized nature."

This is where I would question if Percy is really a Mary Sue - the first series is, after all, his story, so he will of course be important to it. His physical design isn't anything new, either, since attractive black-haired, green-eyed boy has been used before in other media. Now is he overly-skill?

*steeples fingers* Yes and no. Let me explain.

No, because he is, after all, a child of one of the elder gods. It's a given that he'd be much more powerful than other demigods.

Yes, however, because Percy absolutely serves as a power-fantasy for readers. He does have a leg-up on other demigods of the elder gods in comparison, like Thalia, Jason, Hazel, and even Nico.

But what I would argue separates him from being a Mary Sue is that he does struggle (losing control of his powers, for once, becoming fearful of them even), and he does have flaws (obvs his fatal one is the most prevalent, and yeah you can argue since it's a "good natured" one it doesn't count, but I'd point out that even good things can become bad if not used in moderation - which is something Percy eventually learns and overcomes in TLO by handing the knife to Luke, and ergo defeating his desire to be the one to save his friends and letting Luke fulfill his own destiny) - and he's not universally loved by everyone in-story, either (eventually...yes, but really that's kinda understandable, considering he's saved the world twice by then). He was after all ostracized TWICE in the first two books by CHB, and CJ wasn't all the welcoming to him either - some even said "another loser for the Fifth" when the Fifth took him in, DESPITE the fact that he's obviously a powerful demigod and was JUST given Juno's blessing to boot.

But but but...I can definitely see why he could be argued to be a Mary Sue.

Especially when we think about Meg McCaffrey and how some people in the wider fandom call her a Mary Sue.

Mad she's just as powerful as Percy? That she has the potential to be even more so? Too bad. Meg rules. This blog loves Meg McCaffrey send tweet.

Notice how I didn't mention her with the other children of the elder gods before? That was on purpose.

Because Meg is allowed to BE powerful. She gets to flex her skills and practice her abilities! That sets her apart from the other elder god kids, who, besides Nico, really don't get much time to shine in the Power department. Like yeah, we KNOW they're powerful, but...we don't really see it?

Thalia, for one. The most powerful thing she does in-series is a lightningstorm in TLO. And it's not described in any detail. Jason? Capturing the wind spirits, likely. Hazel? Defeating Scyron with the Mist.

Nico also has different treatment when it comes to power compared to the other three, though he does have a handicap for shadow travel.

All's this to say, I guess, is that I can see the argument for Percy being a Mary Sue, but also I can't because there is nuances to consider, and Meg absolutely matches him and she is NOT a Mary Sue (fight me haters).

Also, "Mary Sue" has become a rather...hmm...sexist term, in my opinion? Particularly towards women, ofc, but also I think it's damaging to how men are written too.

Plus, Mary Sues and their male counterparts aren't always bad characters. Going back to wikipedia for a hot second; "In a 2011 interview, Smith cited James Bond and Superman as examples of male Mary Sues, arguing that such characters benefit the male audience's coming of age." Kirk from Star Trek has also been debated over of being a Mary Sue, and yet he, Bond, and Superman are all popular characters.

...I suppose this is where the part on the perception of female vs male characters kicks in - AKA, the "sexism in fandoms" talk and OH BOY DOES THE RRVERSE FANDOM HAVE THAT PROBLEM

#HOTTAKEALERT (not for the toa fandom tho. we know what we're on about :3)

Case in Point: the above talk about Meg. god forbid a girl be skilled or powerful at anything.

"but she's twelve she's not supposed to be able to fight good-!" SHE'S BEEN ABUSED AND VIGOROUSLY TRAINED SINCE SHE WAS 6 AND PERCY WAS ABLE TO DEFEAT THE GOD OF WAR AT 12 AFTER A FEW WEEKS OF TRAINING + WATER

"she's annoying!!" bro have you NEVER met a twelve year old?? were YOU a twelve year old?? because I sure was and man i was annoying. also, Percy & co don't come off as annoying because we are IN THEIR PERSPECTIVE, and twelve year olds are not as visibly annoying to other twelve year olds - MEANWHILE we're seeing Meg through the eyes of a 4,000+ year old god.

also, her "annoying" qualities are endearing. Rick has correctly written a likable 12 year old y'all just hate girls that don't fit your stereotypical vision. traffic light outfits FTW i want to be as unapologetically myself as Meg is unapologetically Meg.

a 12 year old is inspiring to ME, and ADULT. so yeah.

hot take of the day is Meg is/will be more powerful than Percy. Haters just refuse to accept she's anything but a "mArY sUe!" because they hate the thought of any woman being able to match up to Percy.

Anyway I guess this was all to say that I don't personally consider Percy a Mary Sue, because he's a good comparison to use for other characters to determine just how shafted by the narrative they were.

Cheers to Meg and Nico for measuring up well, and pour one out for Thalia, Jason, and Hazel who are victims of "tell and not show".

[spinosacha]

OK I'm sorry I didn't intend this to be a mini essay but it became one

I think the person who's going on about moral purity to you isn't aware that one of the major aspects of media literacy is being able to identify propaganda within media.

I'm not saying that arcane is propaganda, not intentionally anyway, but that you need to be aware of how things are portrayed, and that's a major part of identifying propaganda, writer intention, and even how your own internal bias effects how you interpret things. Depiction isn't endorcement, but positive portrayal is. It's not a case of moral purity, its understanding what the show is trying to tell us by how the characters actions are portrayed.

Yes Silcos death is a pretty clear cut sign that the writers dont think he's the good guy, so let's go for singed instead, singed gets the happiest ending in the show but nobody believes he is meant to be taken as the good guy. Why? He does bad things for a righteous reason (his daughter) so what's the difference between him and how caitlyn is seen?

I'd argue its the fact that the writers don't commit to caits bad actions. Cait uses a chemical weapon on the undercity, but the writers intend you to believe she doesn't harm any civilians in the process. The logistics of that don't really match up, realistically civilians would be harmed, but the show portrays it so that they were not. What's the reason for this difference between how chemical weapons act in real life, and how they act in the show? Well, if the gray was like real chemical weapons, caitlyn would have more blood on her hands, why are the writers actively avoiding that?

Then she is manipulated into becoming the Head of martial law- but even then, she's still shown to be the one in the right, she criticises Ambessas methods at every turn, is willing to betray her the soonest opportunity she gets. Police violence? She's very against that!

So you get this character who should by all means be truely morally gray, she is using a chemical weapon, she is a dictator, for what she sees as a good cause-but she's somehow still as blameless as she possibly could be. This creates the feeling that the writers aren't trying to portray her actions as all that bad. She has tbe aesthetic of a morally gray character without the backing of one.

Compare that to singed. He does horrible experiments, there's a reason for that that is arguably noble (saving his daughter), but there isn't a "but". You can't say "singed created shimmer, but actually nobody got hurt by shimmer!" Like you can say "cait gassed the undercity, but nobody got hurt by it! (Who didn't deserve it)"

Without this distinction how do we differentiate between depiction that IS endorcement and depiction that isn't? How do you identify that a piece of media is condemning far right ideology or promoting it? This has nothing to do with puritanical thinking, and disregarding how things are portrayed is textbook poor media literacy, unfortunately.

(As is not being able to convey your thoughts in a civil and responsible manner funnily enough, which looking at her blog.. she doesn't excel at that one.)

Anyway! Sorry for the essay lol, the weird moral highground people are taking over media literacy when not even understanding what it entails has been bothering me and her response to you and others embodies that so much I had to say something haha. Hope you don't mind :)

You put it really nicely! I tried to add to your take but I think you explained it really well, it’s def the propeganda aspect that I also wish more people would be aware of and how to be critical of the ways things are depicted in media and what bias that could reveal.

But yeah, most of the time I don’t engage in discourse fights but I was feeling a bit feisty yesterday lol. I think Arcane lents itself well to talk about morality in a very interesting way but I think we in the fandom could stand to speak in a bit nicer tone to each other but I get that people are passionate.

[straypineneedle]

A few marauders hot takes:

-i feel like we especially villainize snape far too much. for example, in atyd, his whole personality is being a dickbag, and in a lot of fics, he’s turned into a pureblood, posh, and pampered little jerk. he was a half-blood, poor, and abused at home by his father. i read this fanfic the other day with trans remus, and our only snape interaction is snape being transphobic, deadnaming remus, and calling him a she. snape is perhaps one of the most queer-coded characters. he’s bullied, abused by his father (i’m pretty sure for being “different,” A.K.A. being a wizard, but we all know what being “different” can also translate to), he’s one of the more feminine characters, like having long hair, being quieter, and not being a total macho man. (as compared to sirius and james, who were literally macho men who treated women horribly.) J.K Rowling put her quill on paper, (or whatever the fuck she used to write harry potter) and wrote the words: “He wanted Lily, and he wanted (Bruce) Mulciber, too.” WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU THINK THAT MEANS?

-people say snape was obsessed with lily, but james harassed her for 6 years until she agreed to go out with him. snape didn’t ask her out ONCE.

-ok enough about snape, i think atyd isn’t good because of how remus is characterized in it.

-remus is one of the most trans-coded characters in the franchise. for one, he dresses like a gay english teacher, for two, he has a monthly problem he solves with chocolate, and for three, he’s been a werewolf since age 5, which caused his father to quite literally commit, which is also a parallel of him being queer. when snape outs him as a werewolf, he resigns because people don’t want “someone like him” teaching their children.

-we really should stop calling the DE “wizard nazi’s,” it’s offensive, and we shouldn’t compare the biggest scums of the earth to fictional magical villains.

-excluding peter in content makes 0 sense. he was their friend, that was why the betrayal hurt so badly.

-walburga and orion never PHYSICALLY abused sirius and regulus.

-fancasting any of the members of the noble house of black as attractive makes no sense because they’re all products of inbreeding.

-the fandom as a whole excludes the girls, and uses them like accessories. especially lily. he’s not a girl, but we also do this with regulus.

-we ignore much more interesting characters we could get into. like bruce mulciber, charity burbage, etc.

-the marauders fandom is toxic because they tell people to get into the fandom by reading fanfiction and not reading the actual books.

-basically every ship makes no sense. (yes im looking at you, wolfstar & jegulus.) if anything, prongsfoot has the most chemistry of any queer ship you could come up with. and also, jegulus is just jeverus for cowards. i rest my case.

[slitheringghost]

Making Sense of Lily's Last Moments

Lily Evans is textually and in fandom lauded for her sacrifice, but if you stop and really think about it, Lily's last moments are extremely bizarre, and, to be frank, make her seem kind of incompetent rather than the battle hardened soldier she was:

1. She doesn't have her wand on her when Voldemort is hunting her family down and they could be in danger any moment, which is insanely careless (James does have his, even though he leaves it for just a couple moments just as Voldemort arrives)

2. She wastes precious time blocking the door with cardboard boxes when she knows Voldemort can just wave them away and then more precious time trying to reason with Lord fucking Voldemort despite having wandless magic abilities, begging Voldemort for mercy when the entire reason they've been in hiding for a year is because they all know that, y'know, Voldemort has no mercy (And Lily, the Muggleborn, who has lost the most to this war, knows this better than anyone)

As I explain in this post, we have similar scenarios in which the characters do fight - Amelia Bones "put up a real fight” against Voldemort. Bellatrix uses knives as backup when disarmed of her wand. Dobby saves Harry via wandless magic in the same book we see Lily’s death and her controlling wandless magic at 9. Harry avoids curses from Voldemort/Bellatrix/other Death Eaters by hiding behind stuff. Bellatrix initially escapes Dumbledore who's the better duelist over Voldemort, etc. So while escape is highly unlikely, isn't impossible either. And there's no way Lily wouldn't go down fighting if she had the option.

There's a lot of moments in the series where we as readers go "well why didn't the characters just do XYZ instead, it's such an obvious answer!" especially with how limitless magic in HP is. But I generally assume there's some in-universe reason that would make the characters' choices make sense rather than just accepting that they're stupid and incompetent.

I'm constantly on my soapbox about how fandom should adapt the interpretation that Lily had a plan and did dark magic to save Harry and to defeat Voldemort, which is my personal reading of the text However, if I haven't convinced you on that (...yet), here are some possible ways to fill in the gaps and make Lily's choices seem less strange. (Even if you don't think the canon version makes her look incompetent, these are just fun ideas to play with regardless!)

Why Lily didn't have her wand

Lily's wand broke at some point during a particular dangerous experiment. We have canon examples - Ron's wand in CoS, Harry's in DH (How did Voldemort's wand survive the blast if his body evaporated and end up with him in GoF then? Who knows...). Realistically, the Order would prioritize getting Lily a new wand ASAP because it's so obviously necessary, so maybe it happened close-ish to Halloween and they didn't have the time or opportunity. It could be an interesting parallel to Harry's own powerlessness in DH without his phoenix wand.

@keepmycandleburning's explanation in her fic I'm quicker includes a dark interpretation of James and Lily's marriage, where James took Lily's wand hostage as a method of abuse.

Why Lily didn't fight with wandless magic

Despair and depression can sap your magical power - examples include Merope, Tonks, dementors affecting the magical power of Azkaban prisoners', etc. Perhaps Lily had post-partum depression which sapped her wandless powers, or even just the general despair of fear for Harry's and her own and her loved ones' lives, being trapped in hiding, her family and other friends being dead, etc. Also interesting because until then Lily had a safety net compared to a lot of other Muggleborns - who were in constant fear of having their wands taken away and no wandless magic to fall back on - due to her magical power, but she ultimately ends up deprived of that too.

I still think Lily would've tried, like, anything else other than the cardboard box thing and begging Voldemort, but at least this makes her actions less weird and more like the brilliant witch we know she was.

[gliphyartfan]

Do you know Dr. Stone? If so, can I have the Chain with a fem human reader who is like Senku? The reader takes advantage of being in Hyrule to do research on the different species that exist there and does experiments or machines that the Chain doesn't know about and using the Chain as guinea pigs to learn more about the biology of the Hylians.

I am…SOMEWHAT familiar with Dr.Stone? Not enough to be part of the fandom, I just know a vague gist, but a crazy scientist reader shouldn’t be too hard to figure out ! (Has to give the wiki a quick scan tho…😅)

——————

Let’s face it, Reader is a menace. A lovable menace, sure, but a menace nonetheless. They had too many ideas, too much knowledge, and zero fear of experimenting on the people around them.

The Chain quickly realized that you weren’t JUST curious about Hyrule’s different species, you were curious about EVERYTHING. Every village you passed through was a new research opportunity.

Gorons? Reader poked at their rocky skin, tested their body heat, and theorized why they could survive on a diet of literal rocks. Zoras? Reader studied their scales, their gills, even how their body structure compared to fish. Rito?

They nearly plucked a feather off a passing child before Twilight stopped them.

Reader: ”For SCIENCE, Twi! You don’t understand.”

Twilight: ”Only thing I understand is that you’re about to get your ass kicked by an entire flock of angry Rito parents.”

But the real problem?

The Chain was their easiest test subjects.

Hylian biology wasn’t anything too different from what they already knew, but they still had so many questions.

Why were some Hylians taller than others? Were their ears actually good at hearing? How different was their anatomy from a normal human?

Reader poked, prodded, and took notes on everything. They even tried to draw their anatomy from what they could figure out. (Sky was so red when he saw the diagrams, Legend smacked them over the head, and Hyrule just turned and walked away.)

Reader’s biggest victim? Wild.

Why?

Because he lets them.

Reader “Hey, Wild, can I take a sample of your hair?”

Wild: “Sure, do you need a chunk or just a few strands?”

Wild: “What about a small blood sample? Nothing major, just a few drops.”

Wild: “Eh, why not.”

Twilight stopped them from collecting his spit.

Reader: “IT’S FOR A PH TEST, YOU COUNTRY BUMPKIN.”

Twilight: “WHAT EVEN IS THAT?!? YOU DON’T NEED TO KNOW THE pH OF HIS SPIT, WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU.”

Reader took advantage of the fantasy setting to its fullest. Hyrule had magic, unexplainable creatures, literal deities, and they were going to study all of it.

When they realized that the Sheikah Slate had materials and blueprints from an advanced civilization, Wild barely had time to react before they yanked it from his hands. It took a whole week for him to get it back.

Wild: Reader, give me my Slate.

Reader: “I am doing RESEARCH.”

Wild: “IT’S MINE.”

Reader also invented shit.

Without modern resources, they had to get creative. Thwy used the environment, Wild’s cooking materials, and whatever spare parts the Chain had to make weapons, tools, even small gadgets.

The first time they made a small explosive, Time nearly had an aneurysm.

Time: “NO MORE BLOWING THINGS UP.”

Reader: “It’s for DEFENSE, OLD MAN.”

Warriors was their second biggest victim.Why? Because they used him as a guinea pig for their “hybrid energy” experiments.

Reader: “Okay, so technically, Hylian magic is a force field of energy produced from within, right? So, theoretically, if I adjust the angle and density of my conductive rods, I should be able to create an artificial current—”

Warriors, exasperated but curious: “Reader, are you trying to electrocute me?”

Reader: “It’s FOR SCIENCE, CAPTAIN.”

Legend was your biggest hater.

A few things the vet has said to them:

“Oh, great, what’s the lunatic trying to build now?”

“Reader, if you explode something again, I’m throwing you in the nearest lake.”

“STAY AWAY FROM ME WITH THAT NEEDLE.”

(To name a few)

But the moment he got injured, Reader was the first person he went to because their medicine worked better than potions and elixirs at times.

“Shut up,” he muttered as Reader smirked at him. “You’re the only one with antibiotics.”

“Oh? So you need me?”

“I WILL STAB YOU.”

They once started a fire in the middle of camp just to see how different types of wood burned.

Time banned them from touching firewood for a month.

Overall?

The Chain loved them, but they were a constant headache.

Reader was the only person who wanted to be in Hyrule for the sake of research, and even though their experiments terrified them, they couldn’t help but admire their genius.

Even if it meant they had to keep a close eye on them before they accidentally (re)invented nuclear warfare.

(Moment Wild mentioned Purah’s antics, the chain were horrified at the inevitable possibility of what the both of them would do together. So they drive to keep Reader as far from Purah as possible. It’s inevitable tho so..:sucks for them 😆)

[elainsgirl]

I saw a gwynriel stating that SJM wouldn’t be that stupid to add Gwyn into the BC if she didn’t plan on her ending up with Azriel (…okay), essentially saying, why add Gwyn in the BC at all. Just out of curiosity, why do you think she added Gwyn and had her and Azriel interact? And then also have Az for some reason giving the necklace to Clotho for Gwyn (or any other priestess (funny how no gwynriel ever mentions how unromantic that is but whatever))

As an author, what do I want most?

For people to talk about my books, participating in discussions surrounding my book to make it more popular - which will generate more readers making me more rich.

4 years later and Azriels bonus is still being discussed. Sjm has given the acotar fandom nothing for the past 4 whole years and yet this fandom is still so active, why? Bcs Sjms books are polarising. They create heavy discussions that never die off.

A key thing to remember- Azriel has always been loved by the acotar fandom. His story was in demand and Mass knows how badly people want his pov or book. Mass also knows how much hate Elriel received. If she didnt add in Gwyn - the buzz around the next book would have went stale pretty soon. Yet by adding Gwyn - she gave elriel antis something to talk about. Which they have. For 4 years. Its a red herring- something an author does to create a little doubt just to get people in their fandom talking.

And it clearly worked. She did the same with having Emerie appear in Cassians pov during acofas - it threw anti nessians off and made them believe Emerie would be the other woman in Nessians love story or another potential LI for Cass.

In Azriels case, it blew out of proportion due to how loved Az is and how hated Elain is. No one wanted meek, boring Elain to be with Azriel. Therefore the minute a single, straight woman came along - people shipped Gwyn and Az. If there had been another single, straight woman warrior in acosf who interacted with Az, guess what? Her and Az would have also been shipped.

How many peoppe jumped onto the brycerial bandwagon? It just goes to show anti elriels are desperate enough to ship Az with anyone as long as its not Elain who they majorly dislike.

Sjm had Gwyn and Az interact - in a similar fashion to Emerie/Cass - just to throw some people off -> generate a buzz, create a discussion. But the difference is - Gwyn has magic that Azriels magic reacts too. Gwyn is a singer with musical imagery, antis misconstrue as the same musical imagery Mass uses between mates when this is canonically not the case at all. But they refuse to acknowledge it - why? Bcs then they’d have to accept elriel. So for them, its better to live in delulu land and believe Sjm would break elriel up after 3 solid books of foreshadowing them, in a bonus where she supposedly introduces Gwyn as his new LI.

Take the magic out of the bonus and just focus on the dialogue between Gwyn and Az. Its awkward. I’ve had more interesting conversations with strangers then they did. In fact - istg I had that same conversation with a teacher I came across. You ask them about your holdiay. Chuckle. Try finding something to talk about. God this is awkward, so you crack a joke. The fact Az had to force himself to talk more and be polite - just shows how him and gwyn do not fit together. Add the magic in and compare it to whenever Nesta interacts with Gwyn - both her and Az feel the same effects and emotions.

As for the necklace- the fact it is Elains, means it has no romantic value for Gwyn. Every part of that necklace represents Elain - so how can it be used for Gwyn? If Az had gone out and got Gwyn her own gift- well that is romantic buildup. But he didn’t. On top of that, its not like he was adamant who the necklace went too. He just didnt care - again how on earth is this romantic? Top it off - Gwyn doesnt have the necklace in acosf - its a safe deduction that she did not receive it therefore you can take it as Sjms way of confirming that elriels story isnt over.

It’s simple for me anon:

Sjm did not have to make elriel a thing. Both elucien and gwynriel would have had genuine stakes without elriel. if Gwyn was to be so important- even as a Li to a main character, she would have been introduced in acowar/acofas where Sjm herself stated she left clues for the spinoffs. No where in acosf or the bonus is there a clear romantic shift in Gwynriel’s relationship. I shouldn’t have to read a bonus at all to understand gwynriel is next - if that was the case, I would have come away from acosf thinking elriel ended but the fact Mass left them on a charged glance and w Nesta knowing Az likes Elain…well that’s foreshadowing and buildup 101 to an elriel love story.

Anyways, this is just my opinion that I hope you enjoyed reading about 🫶

[some-sad-ass-divorced-shit-tai]

Ok, I am a comparatively illiterate engineer and this was so well put so I’m sorry for how simplistic everything will be now.

You are right. Taissa as a character works even more than they intended because the struggles they have assigned her play into this Olivia Pope-esque struggle to obtain a powerful position in the very system that seeks to grind a woman like her down to dust before she even has the cognition to recognize it’s happening. One could argue that from the very first episode they have been showing the proverbial “work twice as hard to get half of what they have” issue when coach puts Jackie in the captain position when it seems the clear choice is Tai but she is seen as “too much” and Jackie has “social capital” (arguably borne out of white privilege, and extended pretty privilege making her much more palatable etc.).

And my main grievance with season two was how much adult Tai (and even Van) are completely non players in the plot. As you said she won that seat and basically surrendered to the other her squandering it without putting up much of a fight (and in nonsensical scenarios too, I’ll repeat myself here. She went into a missing/dead woman’s apartment and stole files, left her assistant’s car unlocked by the highway, and probably wasn’t due to take office in the week or two that spanned season 2, especially with a wife in a coma, but the show cast her character aside last season and ignored all that, and now in s3 they just hit a reset button with that “impeached” line. Why did them impeach her for?)

Taissa’a break up with Van being also hand-waved (for now) in a line about how she ditched her for a veneer of respectability also minimizes so much something that probably can be dissected in so many identity issues in light of her being black. What was her family’s response to not only her lesbianism, but her dating a poor white woman? Could she have climbed the social liberal ranks of whatever HBCU they sent her to (or is that a fanon thing? Did she not go to Howard?) with Van? How much was that factored in in her decision? Is her marriage that of political appearance? It didn’t seem like it. Casting Simone and Sammy, their dark skin cast members, aside to crawl back to Van is one of those accidentally racist choices of the narrative when they don’t give us that context in the middle. They wanted adult Van and they just made Tai’s black disappear for it.

But all of this (black) reading of Taissa’s black experience to me does not negate the fact that I really think the writers think of themselves as guys who “do not see color”, they don’t care about Lottie’s background besides her being medicated, about Tai’s and Akilah’s blackness (Akilah’s hair stopped making sense this season and it’s been a real source of joy for me to see it make sense the past two seasons lol), they don’t gaf about Mari’s seemingly Latin American background… Shauna is Jewish? Or at least fanfic I’ve read seems to think she is? Nat’s catholic I presume… the show does not care. I love this show, but I’m pretty sure the writers just don’t care beyond The-CW levels of engagement with any of this. This is one of those shows where, as it’s written right now, anyone could’ve played anyone. One could argue it’s cool, that they did their little colorblind casting, but once the show tries to establish itself as anything more than fluff it quickly starts falling a bit apart. And the fandom wants to treat it as more than fluff, but we all have our blindspots as you say. I’m a Tai truther and a Shauna and jackieshauna baby scholar, but I know nothing of the Māori people and I would not know how to begin to project anything onto the blank slate they have made Lottie regarding to her heritage. It’s a brain-at-50% capacity kinda show for me. Love the theorizing and the turning them over in my mind like a rotisserie chicken etc., but yeah vibing with the fact that the writers just don’t care about these particularities and they don’t have a long term plan lol.

I haveeee so many Taissa Turner thoughts and the way that she is desperately trying not to be sucked into the teeth whirling maw of the US, how she desperately wants to assimilate, how she is gasping for power like air because she has none, how it has torn her apart many times over, how the show constantly reinforces her central fear; that she does lose power whenever she lets her perfect facade go, she lost her family from which she derives social acceptance as The Other One came out to look for Van, that she lost her seat - the power she struggled so hard to obtain - when she kissed Van again. And now S3E1 she lets loose to appease Van by Dine&Dash-ing, and surely the waiter chasing them is having a heart attack and will not survive which means she is going to be hit with felony level manslaughter charges. And you fucking know Perfectionist Taissa is going to come back with a vengeance, and that means The Other One will be back as well. The man with no eyes, the spectre that haunts her, can be read as a cypher for white supremacy. (Which is also the thing - he is passed down by her grandmother! It is intergenerational trauma!!)

Anyway all this rambling is to say I think Tawny Cypress has toppled Shohreh Aghdashloo from my list of celebrity actresses that I am most sexually attracted to.

[dykedvonte]

I hate the stretch lines in the front of Curly's uniform because that means the devs rushed to make a model in like a month or so and thought "They gotta at least know he has huge knockers, gotta know he's got back pain." Cause like what is the thematic importance of his tits having overhang?

What responsibility is that representing? Breast reduction? It shows an inherent greed in his character due to the excess and heshouldletmeholdone and that he clearly is blinded cause if he tries to look down his damn ladder all he's seeing is his own cleavage.

[lucyshypemaster]

you will NEVER see anyone writing paragraphs after paragraphs hating on keefe like they do with sophie.

[littencloud9]

bsd fandom has always mischaracterised kunikida to hell and back but the fact that i am seeing SO MUCH hate for his character right after his 'death' is insane

[orionsangel86]

So I've had quite a bit of time now to absorb the above take and consider all perspectives on this and whilst I can understand where OP is coming from on their specific perspective, I think OP is fundamentally wrong on a few points. I get that not everyone on the internet that day was an avid Supernatural fan/Destiel shipper and I get that the state of the world and the political climate (specifically in America) were particularly dire at that point and so I can see why you would want to reduce the importance of SPN/Destiel's role in the hysteria, but the truth is that regardless of everything else, Destiel going canon very much was the fuse that blew everything else up, and nothing else would have had even remotely the same impact.

Let me attempt to explain why.

Under a cut because obviously this isn't a quick and simple thing to explain so only click read more if you genuinely want to understand this whole insane mess.

Now bearing in mind I am not American, even I can admit that on a global scale the US elections this time around were tense - Trump turned your country into a global laughing stock on one hand, and quite a concerning dangerous liability on the other. The rest of the world was very much watching on with baited breath to see how the election would turn out. But I think we should stress that the Election took place several days before November 5th. Yes, the results this time around were taking a while to be revealled, building up the tension and anticipation, but regardless, had Destiel not come along and caused mass hysteria the Election would not have had such a huge impact on pop culture at the time. It would have still been iconic and pivotal of course, but it in no way would have caused the same insanity everywhere on the internet for the following week.

OP states that any inane fandom drama could have had the same effect. That any other fandom ship going canon could have given the same outcome. This is where OP and I fundamentally disagree. OP actually already contradicts themselves when they state "except that Supernatural was a thing everyone knew basic things about from dashboard osmosis"

Because here is the thing. I have been on tumblr nearly a decade, and I have certainly learnt a lot through dashboard osmosis. I knew about Superwholock, and Hannibal, and Spirk of course, but nothing holds a candle to Supernatural and the Supernatural Fandom for size, consistency, and dedication to shit posting. There is a reason SPN fandom became infamous back in the days for "we have a gif for that". There is a reason why Destiel holds the top spot for most fanfictions on AO3. There is a reason tumblr groans every April 1st as someone inevitably tries to recreate the mishapocalypse.

If it had been Spirk going canon somehow, sure, the internet would have celebrated. They probably would have done it in some reasonably well written respectable way. Old Spirk fans would surely have come out to cheer it on. The internet would have laughed about the timing sure, maybe we all would have trolled that old bastard William Shatner until he finally deleted his Twitter (if only). Spirk would have probably trended (though perhaps not over the election), but the likelihood of anyone outside of Star Trek fans going mad and joining in on the hysterical shit posting hilarity of that night and the following days is probably quite slim. I think the same can be said for most ships. Because lets be honest now, most ships aren't Destiel.

Now I'm not saying this in a smug "my ship is better than your ship" way at all. Because the Destiel impact is absolutely not about that. What you have to understand is the very specific very hostile relationship that Supernatural Fandom has with the Supernatural Creators which is very much unique to Supernatural and was very much responsible for the hysteria that night. (yes we can argue Sherlock creators were also hostile towards the fandom but I promise you with every fibre of my being as someone who experienced both shows and fandoms in real time they were NOT the SAME.)

Supernatural was a 15 year long reign of terror on its fandom. It was 15 years of queerbaiting that somehow became genuine queer coding once the showrunners had changed hands enough times, yet still consisted of an internal struggle among its creators who were half very supportive of the ship and half absolutely adamantly against it due to either a genuine dislike of SPN even remotely stepping away from a brother-centric narrative, or just run of the mill homophobia. It was a ship that was built upon consistently without long hiatus's over a 12 year period (which is an extremely long time in internet time) and its fanbase at its height was most definitely among the biggest on the internet.

It is because of this very particular relationship that SPN has with its fanbase, that has lead to SPN fandom over the past 15 years being pretty fucking hilarious in its self deprecation, humour style, and its own antagonism towards the show. There are genuinely people on tumblr who claim to be part of the "SPN fandom fandom" who don't care about the show but follow the tags and bigger bloggers simply for how fucking hilarious the fandom has become through 15 years of experience in dealing with this absolute dumpster fire show and its ridiculous real life dramas. I cannot express enough how unique SPN fandom is in this regard. The fact is, if you were part of SPN fandom at any point, you would have picked up this particular style of humorous blogging and even if people left the fandom over the years, that particular experience never would have left them. No other fandom could have pulled of the mishapocalypse (to this day still probably the best April Fools joke in internet history) and you betcha that SPN fandom was pivotal in getting Goncharov to have as big an impact as it did. You may consider modern tumblrs sense of humour to be just a tumblr thing, but I guarantee it would not be the way it is without SPN fandom laying the foundations all those years ago. Calling Tumblr "The Destiel Website" is not actually hyperbole. It's fact. Destiel and SPN were unique in building the foundations on what we now consider pretty standard tumblr culture.

So on that note, You have a fandom that has "sleeper agents" all over the world all sporting the same "trauma" about this show and years of experience in excellent shitposting on the internet, you have a show which has basically been playing Schrodingers Ship with its fanbase for at least the past 3 years. Most people who had a tumblr blog during the height of the SuperWhoLock era are aware of Destiel and how insane it was, even if they never really had any interest in it (if only thanks to their posts being hijacked by a SPN gif). Even if it were a regular day - no US elections, no covid19, no horrible real world traumatic events dominating the trending topics on Twitter - Destiel going canon would have still caused absolutely insanity online unlike any other fandom ship could have caused. I guarantee it. Not just because of Destiel being a very long running popular ship, but because of the way it happened. Because no other show would have done it like that. No other show would have had one of the lead characters confess their gay love for the other lead character seemingly out of the blue (it wasn't, but only if you really pay attention to subtext) and then immediately die whilst the other lead character has barely any reaction and doesn't respond (he does have a reaction, but unless you are very clued in on Jackles micro-expressions its not gonna register).

No other show would have made a queer ship go canon in such a ridiculous way that was so perfectly primed for tumblr style shitposting (tumblr style being SPN fandom style originally anyway). So of course, even if there hadn't been historic world events happening, it would have been an absolutely insane night on the internet. The fact that it DID happen in the midsts of several historic world events only added fuel to the fire and created a perfect storm of hilarious memes and chaos and caused Destiel to trend over the US election - leading serious political journalists to scratch their heads and wonder what the fuck was happening.

It wasn't the US election that lead to the insanity of November 5th 2020. It was Destiel. Destiel was the fuse, the US election was just fuel being added to the fire. Everything else - the Sherlock S5 rumours, the Putin stepping down rumours, the revelations in certain Manga and Anime fandoms - none of that would have even been a blip on the wider internets radar were it not for Destiel and SPN fans (both current and former) going nuts with the memes, spreading rumours and world news like wildfire across the internet, all because of their glee over Destiel going canon in typical SPN style - being the most ridiculous and frankly hilarious way possible.

The reason we have the Destiel news meme, and the reason why it continues to be one of the most popular meme formats next to distracted boyfriend, is because Destiel fans were spreading the chaotic news about the election and other weirder news globally on that night and throughout the following week. Because whilst OP calls the Destiel part inane, and irrelevant in the grander scheme of what went down that night, the truth is that no other insane fandom news would have had even a fraction of the impact that Destiel did. Because no other fandom has the same batshit crazy history and build up that Destiel did. No not even Spirk. Spirk may have a longer history, but it doesn't have anywhere near the consistency Destiel had. No other fandom would have been able to carry all of that hysteria and spread it like a virus across the internet the way SPN fans did.

If Destiel hadn't happened, November 5th 2020 would have been nothing more than another night during an intense election in America, and the rest of the world would have simply forgotten shortly after - with the exception being the UK who continue their disturbing tradition of burning an effigy of a traitor who tried to blow up a tyrranical government 400 years ago on a bonfire on this particular night each year and created the very apt poem "remember remember the fifth of November" for it, which is easily co-opted by SPN fandom now. No other fandom news would have had the same impact on internet history. No other fandom could have turned this into an annual Tumblr holiday. No other fandom is quite as insane as SPN fandom nor as devoted to shitposting and irritating the fuck out of anyone not in SPN fandom in order to pull this off.

If it had been anything else, it wouldn't be the same. If it had been anything else, OP certainly wouldn't be writing about it now, because the anniversary celebrations wouldn't have irritated them enough to complain about Destiel in a tumblr post - because no other fandom is quite as annoying as SPN fandom enough to make random people want to revise the history and erase that which annoys them. No other fandom does it like them. I say this from experience.

So whilst anyone not interested in SPN and Destiel are more than welcome to blacklist the tags, block the bloggers, and try as hard as they can to ignore the truth of what happened that night just over 3 years ago, don't you dare try to pretend that it wasn't the very specific trigger of Destiel going canon that caused that hysteria - a global hysteria mind you, not an America-centric hysteria. Because whilst OP tries to make out that November 5th was primarily about the US election, Destiel was a global event, or at least, a Western World event with people joining in the hysteria all across Europe and even as far as Australia and New Zealand (and Destiel has a huuuuge fanbase in South America as well). We don't rewrite history in these parts. we embrace it, even if it is really fucking annoying.

People who try to analyze what happened on Tumblr on November 5th, 2020, often really overstate how much it was actually “about” Supernatural. As someone who has never been in the supernatural fandom ever but dID join in on the hysterical destielposting—it was really more about the stress of the pandemic and the 2020 presidential election.

The two biggest Youtubers I’ve seen try to dissect “what happened that November 5th” in video essays both weren’t American—- and I think that explains why they both tried to explain the hysteria primarily via analyzing the Supernatural fandom/the original show, rather than through the lens of the election. And while those videos are cool, valid, informational, and make lots of really well-considered interesting points— I can tell you that me and almost all my mutuals had literally no knowledge or interest in the fact that “oh supernatural had made nods at the ship in the past but the creators were adamant that I wouldn’t be canon” or etc etc etc etc. the first time I learned about any of that context was way later, watching videos where people claimed that fandom history context (that I did not know anything about) was the actual reason for the hysteria.

But the reality is that people latched on to the Destiel stuff because it was a piece of big useless inane zero-stakes fandom news in a time when we were desperately waiting for serious high stakes election news. We were latching onto a “positive “ piece of inane stupid fandom news in a time of great stress, with all the desperation of a drowning man who latches onto whatever piece of wood will keep him afloat.

The core of the hysteria was that Americans (who make up a huge chunk of tumblr’s userbase) were currently glued to their laptops watching the live presidential election vote counts come in. These vote counts were taking an extended amount of time due to the pandemic causing high numbers of mail-in ballots, resulting in a constant state of Election Day Stress for multiple days straight.

This was also during the height of the Pandemic. People had predicted Trump’s presidency would be bad; no one had predicted it would be this apocalyptically bad. No one had predicted pandemics and lockdowns and hospitals overflowing with bodybags. remember Trump spreading Covid lies and conspiracies?? There were so many Qanon conspiracies about democrats being Satanic child traffickers who had to be put to death, and coup threats were mounting from the right wing side. It seemed like this election was a choice between ‘centrist democrat’ and “apocalyptic right wing conspiracy theory authoritarianism,” in the midst of pandemic conditions that people feared would never ever improve— and it seemed like a close election.

Another major point was that Trump voters were more likely to be antimaskers/Covid deniers, while Biden voters were more likely to take the pandemic seriously— so Biden voters were more likely to send in mail-in ballots instead of risking the in-person voting crowds, which meant their ballots would take much longer to count. And so, in many state electoral vote counts, it would initially seem like Trump was very far in the lead— only for Biden to slooooowly build up an agonizingly small lead as the mail in ballots came in, and then defeat Trump at the very end.

So you’re just watching these news sites giving live election updates, refreshing the page every 2 minutes to see if you’re going to live under a spineless centrist democrat or a literal Qanon Dictatorship. And then you go on tumblr to distract yourself, and there’s more election posting, and more agonizing over the votes, and more stress and despair—-

And then it’s been days and we’re right at the crucial tipping point where it’s anyone’s game and the next few hours will determine whether Trump will win, so you need to keep your eye on the vote count, because the next hours will determine the future of the pandemic and your country and your plans for your entire life—

And then stupid Destiel becomes canon! And it becomes canon in the silliest way possible!

If Destiel had become canon at any other time, it would have been a big goofy tumblr celebration? But we wouldn’t have gotten the insane explosion of hysterical interaction.

The entire core of it was the contrast between the inane meaningless stupidity of fandom news vs the actual stressful election news you wanted to hear! It really is best conveyed in that meme where Castiel says “I love you” and Dean indifferently responds with a piece of important election news.

It’s about the contrast between the low-stakes inanity of fandom and the massive life-destroying stakes of a terrifying election. There really was no reason it had be Supernatural specifically, except that Supernatural was a thing everyone knew basic things about from dashboard osmosis— it could’ve been any other equally huge silly fandom ship news about a ship everyone *knew of* but might not necessarily be invested in (ex. Stucky becoming canon, Johnlock becoming canon, Kirk/Spock becoming more canon somehow, etc etc etc.)

I think it’s true that people who weren’t paying agonizingly close attention to the American election news got swept up in it, and that non American Supernatural fans also were extremely excited for purely fandom reasons — but the entire reason it blew up to an unprecedented degree was because of that core of stressed out terrified Americans glued to their computers watching election results and suddenly receiving stupid fandom news instead, and deciding to just hysterically parodically hyper-celebrate this absurd useless zero-stakes news.

I think it was also all elevated by the fact that, as I said before, this happened at the crucial “tipping point” of the election where the next few hours would determine the winner. The fact that Biden began to slowly develop a lead in the hours after made it feel, hysterically, as if the hours after Destiel became canon was somehow the turning point where he began to win; so celebrating Destiel felt like celebrating that slow turn towards victory.

The tl,dr is that it’s so important to Remember the Fifth of November …..in preparation the inevitable hysteria that will happen in the presidential election on November 5th of next year. XD. Personally I’m rooting for Johnlock or Frodo/Sam to somehow become canon in the eleventh hour right before the democrats win

[kindaorangey]

people talk a lot about the lack of passion in louis and armand's relationship (myself included) but i'd also just like to note the fact that armand "sleeps" in the same bed as louis even though he doesn't need rest. the one exception to this is in episode 3 and that's purely because armand wants to talk to daniel alone - he and louis always stay in the same bed, even in episode 4 where they're having a screaming match just beforehand (they're still getting dressed for bed as they're doing this). and i think you can decide for yourself what the exact meaning of this is, but whatever you interpret, it's pretty intimate. still not passionate, and even when they're in bed together they don't really touch, but still. it's a simple, routine act of intimacy. i really like it.